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yeah trend overlapp with his field and only give Acheron 1 stack per enemy action per turn. If enemies act twice per turn and the 2nd attack happens to hit trend then it will give extra stack, but it's quite niche and RNG dependent.
Yeah. If you have or can get a moment of victory it's probably better to give aventurine for more damage and team tankyness. Depends how much offense one wants I suppose. Going full knight is still more and likely getting his LC on rerun for more stacks.
I suppose his damage will be fine with just a full knight and more offensive stats. Skip all the ehr and maybe use the new planar set. 25 cd and 25 fua DMG. Salsotto is CRIT though still. MoV helps you get hit more to go more fua too.
IDK man, Gepard died the day Aventurine launched, he's better in every single way
EDIT;
I love shields so much, my next sustain I pull is probably going to be another shielder. Even if Lingsha is a better Gallagher, my Gally is e6 and there's no way I'm just benching him cos simply put the return of investment isnt worth it, esp as I want to GO BIG on Feixiao. If that's a mistake or not, time will tell :D
As a sustain, I will agree, but his inherent aggro buff provided a pretty unique perk that made him the best at triggering trend, pretty much.
If trend is out of the picture with Jiaoqiu, Gepard's usefulness is even more limited...
Not that it has an effect on me, because I don't have him anyway, but it's kind of sad.
but if you see on dino and svarog 2 attack 1 "action", you can get 2 stack acheron ult, 1 from 1st attack or action 2nd is they use AoE attack and hit aventurine.
so not completely useless, but yeah using other alternative is better i guess
Trends is “useless” here because the purpose of Trends is to inflict enemies with a debuff on their turn for Acheron to gain her ult counters faster. However, Jiaoqiu’s kit already accomplishes this, so there’s no reason to put Trends on Fu Xuan. If you’re running Fu Xuan, Jiaoqiu, Acheron then Fu Xuan can just use whatever LC of your choice.
[](/kmaudgraduation)
You don't need to under build EHR. The aura is per _turn_, not per action. So elite double/triple actions give only one stack (at the start) but Trend gives up to three (per attack).
It's not much, but it's not like sustains actually need anything better so may as well get few more stacks (especially in the new boss rush mode).
It's not bad per day, it's just less effective. However, there's something a lot of people in this thread are missing.
Trends:
- gives a stack when the PRESERVATION character with Trends is hit PER ACTION
- doesn't give much survivability or utility compared to most other LCs (16% to 32% Def)
- Must be preservation character (which till now we only have 2 decent ones for the hardest content, Adventurine and Fu Xuan)
Jiaoqiu's field:
- ANY character, per turn
- won't give stacks until he uses ultimate
- needs to use skill to increase field uptime, so he needs to use sp
Honestly, at this stage, jiaoqiu's field does have some weaknesses, especially if he needs 1-2 turns to activate his ultimate in the first place. Using trends does fix some of these holes but there is opportunity cost to use better lightcones, an abundance unit or even a non-sustain unit like welt, Ruan Mei, another nihility etc.
I'm currently using trends on gepard, and I feel like it is quite inconsistent for enemies to attack him even if he has A2 trace. It's like 1 in 3 hits for ST.
It's an *enormous* problem in the HSR community I've noticed. Everyone seems to assume people will pull for every S1, which is completely unrealistic for most f2p or even light spenders (monthy pass/battle pass)
I only spend the $5 a month. Sure I could get more S1 (only one I did was Acheron) but then I'm missing out on more characters, which are way more fun than just "bigger number".
I don't get it either, because it didn't use to be the case. Not sure when exactly expectations changed, but how effective a character was as E0S0 with f2p LC used to be a huge factor in people judging how "good" a unit was. Maybe Acheron was the turning point?
I'm completely f2p, and the only Sig LCs I have are Acheron's (I had 0 GNSW before her banner) and Ratio's (wanted to keep Herta LC on Seele). Every limited 5* I have is E0. I try to keep enough pulls banked that it's an option if it's another Acheron situation, but I always look for f2p alternatives first. It's a major consideration when pulling for me.
I think a lot of it is due to how "F2p Friendly" the LC banner is in comparison to Genshin's weapon banner.
Both are scams, but Genshin's is definitely worse.
I think it started quite a bit before Acheron. Jing Yuan (no other crit LC for Erudition) and Blade (nothing else was even close) both had a lot of "must pull LC" posts.
it’s also bc Genshin’s bp weapons are just much better than HSR’s. although both games have some decent craftable options, many of the bp weapons in HSR are basically useless / aggressively outshone by the other gacha 4* options
This is also true. Genshin at this point I basically never have problems finding a good weapon option (though having a massive account certainly helps)
A year into HSR and for almost every character that releases (aside from Firefly) it's "alright, what fucking copium light cone option is it this time"
Yup. Honestly if you're saying just fuck sustain and go for as many stacks as possible then march with aventurine lightcone is probably meta now. Probably a decent 0 cycle setup
Yeah, that Acheron can still be improved but even in that state the run got really good numbers, I think Jiaoqiu in fact is a really good companion for her then.
The fact the prelim ehr trace of aven went to Jiaoqiu worked well here
30% ehr down from Jiaoqiu + 50% Effect RES from Aven, you're barely getting cc'd
Also Acheron's Crimson Knot stacks charging is off the charts, more ults if she had her S1 and the frequent aoe attacks from Svarog and Dino charges the debuff from Aven's S1
I wanted to pull for Firefly but after seeing Jiaoqiu I decided I'm pulling for him to improve Acheron, he's made for her. And he's cute, so that's on that.
Well, Firefly is great and even if you get her, Jiaoqiu will be in the second part of 2.4, you'll have the entire 2.4 to farm + the rest of 2.3.
In the first half of 2.3 you can get up to 70 pulls + 36-40 in the second half, and we will probably have something around 100 pulls in 2.4, maybe more since we should have new maps.
If you're not after Yunlin, you can easily get Jiaoqiu even if you get Firefly, you can even get his signature LC if you win 50%.
30k per Jiaoqiu "DOT", 70k per ult crit and 50k per skill
huh
also he NEEDS an energy passive or something, seeing him miss the the 1st ult by 1 energy is actually painful
+this is funny how he turns acheron into a pseudo Erudition, she's ult-ing like every turn lol
I also didn't notice this is Acheron on GNSW wtf, this damage is crazy considering how often she's ult-ing
Worth mentioning that Jiaoqiu has 57% crit and 110% CDMG while mantaining 140+ EHR (yes he has a crit chest).
Your JQ probably isn't gonna hit as hard (unless you slave away in the mines for months)
The 140 spd is the most realistic part of it he has spd boots and 2pc hackerspace on thats 31 spd alone. He only had 6 spd on one relic as well. Its a good build but not that unrealistic tbh( head piece and boots especially are realistic) if you actually farm relics.
Honestly a good trade off. My biggest annoyance when playing Acheron is when a single enemy remain with 10% health after using the ultimate and I can’t kill them because my supports do 0 dmg.
That's such a good point I hadn't considered.
Plus with Aventurine the extra damage could be what saves you wasting a whole Acheron ult on a single remaining mob.
This has been the main thing I like about firefly after playing mostly with Acheron since she released. Everyone on that team hits broken enemies hard lol.
I don't think it's surprising he lost the healing given how OP he is for Acheron even without his own personal damage. He's a victim of being created as a specific unit buffer and the devs realizing Acheron with Jiaoqiu that has healing has zero weaknesses. So he might not be as good for non-Acheron teams now, but he's still busted with Acheron. If anything this is an admittance that Acheron is way overtuned for any unit to be her dedicated support.
Seems a bit weird, though.
Acheron too overtuned to have a dedicated support, but he’s not as good for other teams due to changes and still very busted for Acheron.
Seems a better move is to make him better for other teams and less so for Acheron, because that still reads as a dedicated support…
(Not that I think adding the heal back is the answer, a different utility would be preferable.)
thats his E2 which I most likely will be going for. Skipping Firefly and her lightcone to hopefully make it happen. He will be a much funner as my main Fire DPS especially with with dot comps with Kafka and BS. Only problem is my Acheron and Dot will fight over him. It will also make getting E2 Acheron near impossible as she probably reruns with him.
They can still buff his E2 instead. For example move E6 to E2, it's amazing but doesn't warrant E6. And then for E6 make it so the dot dmg deals 300% dmg per stack on enemy; it doesn't matter if it's broken because it's E6.
Depending on how his field works, shouldn't it be giving the enemies three debuffs (Ashen roast,ult vulnerability and effect hit rate down)? Or all his debuffs just Ashen roast?
If they are all separate than if they change his e1 to allow allies to to proc Ashen roast during his ult he can be like Furina to the hp crit set and allow for any crit dps to reliably use pioneers for the full effect which would make him more general.
Someone here confirmed they are all separate, but putting that in an E1 wouldn’t be my preference because then he’s a dedicated Acheron support which requires much more money for everyone else. It’s already bad enough he’s locked out of DOT blessing abuse until E2 while still having a “DOT”
Would be better to put it in base kit and require attacks from any ally to be the stack generator until E1, when enemy actions will trigger it as well. So then if Acheron mains want more OPness and to swap out Trends, they can do so but by getting E1. That’ll tamper the Acheron OPness hypercharging she doesn’t need and make him more universal considering she does already have Trend to do this job after all.
Being an OP Acheron support should be the eidolon bait, not working for everyone else.
The point is he shouldn’t just be a dedicated Acheron support at base obviously lol. First Fire / Nihility limited male stuck being a dedicated Acheron support with a kit half copypasted from a 4-star is disappointing af and makes him the most niche limited in the game considering everyone else will likely be better off replacing him with a Harmony. Even Ratio has RRAT to get around it.
I don’t care about waifu husbandos so that “male support” point is meaningless to me. Black Swan is a dedicated support for Kafka and outside of that one team she’s mid. So, how is JQ any different? And i don’t think a support meant for buffing ult based dps is meant for Ratio teams + he just got Robin for his teams. The main issue here is that he’s not good with Argenti even as an ult based buffer. Printing stacks for Acheron is the only thing he is doing rn. If you remove that part from his kit, even Acheron is better off with SW + Pela because of how def shred stacks.
BS functions perfectly well on her own as a DPS without Kafka, they’re just enhanced together. Jiaoqiu is a SUPPORT for one unit. How are they even the same?
The point is to buff other parts of his kit and put different utility at E0 (hell, maybe an energy buff? A speed buff? SOMETHING the non-Acheron carries can use to make him competitive with Harmonies) so he has other shit to do besides Acheron, which they can’t do if he’s already overbuffing Acheron.
Jiaoqiu’s additional vulnerability for ult carries is only 15% additional anyway, that’s like saying Sparkle is meant to only buff Quantum teams cause of her Quantum trace.
Not necessarily. Although we never saw numbers, rumors are that his healing was going to be very minimal. If he can't solos sustain mediocre healing wouldn't be significant.
if his healing disappeared for him to do more personal damage, I think that's a better trade-off to make him valuable in more teams. Added DPS on a damage buffer support makes him more universal than minimal healing that would still require sustain unit.
Keep in mind these are most likely skewed numbers since the current pure fiction has this: **When 3 or more characters following the Path of Nihility are in the team, increases all allies' DMG dealt by 60% and SPD by 30%.**
Honestly, even accounting for this buff the damage still looks a bit too high for an E0 lvl 50 lightcone acheron, hopefully the guy didn't forget to update the character profile.
> Its indeed lvl 50 lc, **i just forgot to change its level**
So, E0 Acheron and GNSW lvl 50 hitting over 590k in pure fiction? With spd boots on top? It seems super high. Maybe that 60% is straight out "pick the final number and add .6 of the amount to it".
You should totally add in the description if you used that pure fiction buff. It could be very misleading.
It's so hard to tell anything anyway cause of the pure fiction buff. Beta showcases always have to be taken with a lot of scrutiny, in this case even moreso.
57% chance to crit, the other 43% of the time he's only hitting for 12k, his damage is nothing special, keep in mind this jq has 57/110 crit ratio and 144 EHR with 140 spd along with the 60% PF dmg buff, he's not going to actually hit that hard in real circumstances.
Exactly. Achieving 140+ EHR without an EHR body and still having this crit ratio? Very hard to "normal" players (I'm one of them lol). Jiaoqiu it's not trash by any means, but he still needs some tweaking. I hope the beta testers pay enough attention to him. Since he's not a waifu, I don't really have my hopes up unfortunately.
This is the “missing piece” of his kit and why people think he’s not great–he’s a Pela level support *with Erudition level damage*, so if you write off his multipliers he looks bad. He does want a lot of EHR, but the numbers on this showcase are definitely attainable–my reserve relics for him are better than these, not even counting the buff from the 4pc Pioneer effect.
If you put his multipliers side by side with Himeko’s, they are extremely similar, with his Additional Damage pseudo-DOT corresponding with her FUA. As another commenter said, he’s going to be great in PF (especially with enemy Action Advance gimmicks), but the whacky action economy in Apocalyptic Shadow is going to make his Acheron comps there very strong.
Yeah, Tutorial makes this farther out of my reach (actually unreachable) than just using his S1 lol. I wonder what % of players are in the same boat at this point.
There's already huohuo and tingyun who gives 50 and at e6 60 energy. I highly doubt they'll make more battery units anytime soon.
Though I'd love to get broken battery support because Argenti takes ages to ult especially available single target
As expected, unlimited blade (Acheron) works. His own damage is suprisingly relevant too, unlike Pela.
Hard to tell how much he buffs Acheron's damage since she has pretty mid stats and she's using a level 50 cone lmao
Sometimes the stack on enemy turn doesn't trigger, I assume it didnt "land" (I think you need like 177 EHR to guarantee it)
Edit: okay Jiaoqiu has insane relics though, 57 crit 110 critdmg and 144 EHR. A "normal" JQ focusing on speed and EHR is not gonna do that much damage.
> His own damage is suprisingly relevant too, unlike Pela
This is with Tutorial and *every single relic piece* having ***perfect*** rolls.
Very unrealistic.
He’s already a given in an Acheron and Aven team to be good I’m kinda more curious of his performance outside of that. How much of an improvement is he over Pela/Gui in DOT teams? Can he be used in break teams or other team comps? I’m just hoping he’s gonna be at least an improvement to Pela in a general sense and not only be good/BIS in only 1 team.
Looks insane really the synergy between him and Acheron. Especially against faster enemies getting multiple turns, id like to see MOC footage but i would not be suprised if you could easily be getting acheron ult up 3 times every cycle in the right team.
I just realized that because fire dmg on enemy's turn is not DoT, I think it can crit? The animations were not all that clear. This has its use case especially if he will be in crit team because there may be team wide crit dmg buffs. For example, Aventurine's ult can buff crit dmg a bit. Or just good old broken keel.
Looking great. His 5 stacks are up pretty well except in the beginning. I'm gonna save pioneer pieces with EHR sub stats for now. (I'm still not sure how he will perform in my skill point hungry teams though.)
Looks OP for Acheron teams but really tied to her
So Acheron BiS E0 team should be Pela/Jiaoqiu/whatever (Solo sustain or even Gallagher since trend isn't a thing anymore with him) and E2 team should be Sparkle/Jiaoqiu/whatever ?
Prayers to be made: Move e2 to base kit. Would love to see him in a comp eith Kafka, Gui, and Aven. Crossing fingers they let him switch between dot and debuffer playstyles so he's not forced to be glued to Acheron
For an E0S0 showcase, Jiaoqiu is looking to be a rather strong option for Acheron teams!
It seems he may need at least an ER Rope, SPD Boots, and an EHR body piece with substats in other places no?
Honestly this just makes me even more happy that I decided to skip Ruan Mei and save everything for fox man.
...obviously I want both, but right now I cannot afford them both, assuming I lose a 50/50 to at least one of 'em, and I've honestly known that I've wanted to pull Jiaoqiu since his drip marketing first came out. (my second team is all e0s0 RAT, and when I get Jiaoqiu Guinaiffen can move from my Acheron squad to that team lol--even moreso when I get her e1 finally😆) The fact that he can actually stack Slashed Dream every enemy turn, regardless of who they attacked, is insane, and makes me even more excited to pull him!
...that said, Imma keep Trends Gepard regardless. He's goated ☺️
(a word on me deciding to skip Ruan Mei. I am F2P and just started with Acheron's banner and have tried to pull for 4 things (Acheron, Aventurine, Topaz, and then losing 50/50 to Topaz's LC). In theory I do have enough in-game Jades left to reach both pity with Ruan Mei's banner (67 rn) and then save up for 180 pulls by the the time Jiaoqiu comes out. But... I don't want this game to run my life. I've stress-farmed Jades so hard so that I could pull all the previously mentioned characters, and while I know getting Ruan Mei now would greatly benefit my account down the line when I eventually get e1s1 Topaz on her rerun... but it's just not what I need right now. I'll get her eventually later!! :) )
Acheron is becoming even more and more balanced. She finally had a sorta rival with ff, but she really wants to be the clear top 1.
The gap with King Yuan is more and more wide. It's becoming more than ridiculous that a super-opti JY E1S1 with 3 other premium support all with their LC sig does not even do half of what an Acheron E0S0 will probably do (with lc lvl 50 lmao) with Jiaoqiu and much more accessible options, while being slower and much less safe because even with Hanabi hyperspeed you're still forced to wait for the proc LL, and if you get cc'd because it can happen even with fx or huohuo you're just screwed.
This was my main thing I wanted for acheron. My issue with acheron like every other hyper carry is that they have cringe af round errors due to all their damage being focused in one spot meaning that there are times they leave the enemy on high enough hp where you have to waste extra resources because the supports cant kill them. Thats why i like fua and break because while they dont deal as much damage as the main they can finish off the enemy. Add that with faster acheron ult gen and it looks good.
Im planning on running Acheron e2s1 with sparkle (160 spd setup), aventurine (134 spd) and Jiaquo (134 spd, skill skill basic rotation). Will this team run out of skillpoints?
Oh a character only made for one character is not that bad with that character? You don't Say?
But next question is jaoqiu good with other character and without pela to 1) boost him 2) make tutorial work... And you know tutorial is an old évent only lc... So...
Maybe next Time I'll see a proper jiaoqiu showcase and not an acheron showcase...
According to early calc, right now he's "decent" with everyone, but only really good for Acheron. Even for Ratio, who likes debuffs, he's barely better than Pela.
Since you seem to have access through whatever means OP, is there any chance you could test something with his LC? I've heard conflicting things but supposedly you can either stack both states of it or the value of the second state is the total of both. Either way it would mean 28% extra vulnerability vs 18% which is kind of a big difference.
Jeez, now I wonder why erudition path even exist lmao. What kind of support for erudition unit (mainly Argenti) have to get to achieve this kind of dmg and ultimate uptime consistency?, even then E2 Acheron can use that support too which in turn makes her better again than all AoE DPS unit combined.
At this point is there any pros of running dedicated AoE/erudition unit than her on PF?. This makes me feel like instead of pulling Jade for PF, you should better pull Jiaoqiu (If you already got Acheron).
cant compare with acheron since acheron not relying on energy.
just how fast to stack debuff which a lot easier.
erudation tends to suffer from low scaling , so still possible if u have 3 premium supports tho
true dat regarding jade. but i heard they at jade e6 to base kits, she probly strong now and can use in all contents with versatile teammates
I feel like it was a weird choice for hoyo to make erudition unit AoE dmg multiplier to be so low while you have someone like Acheron that have super high dmg multiplier on her single target focused AoE ultimate with an in build res penetration already as a bonus lmao. You can see that even Jade suffer from this.
The only reason to not pull her at this point would be if you don't like her character/personality at all.
IKR acheron really special case from hoyo
Not only her ult is full AEO, but those scaling is nasty af
jade is erudation + elation, she wont do acheron type of damage, but its gonna be fun seeing those wombo combo in pf and divergant universe :D
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trends seems quite useless here as the enemies already eat one debuff in their turn due to jiaoqiu's field
yeah trend overlapp with his field and only give Acheron 1 stack per enemy action per turn. If enemies act twice per turn and the 2nd attack happens to hit trend then it will give extra stack, but it's quite niche and RNG dependent.
Yeah. If you have or can get a moment of victory it's probably better to give aventurine for more damage and team tankyness. Depends how much offense one wants I suppose. Going full knight is still more and likely getting his LC on rerun for more stacks. I suppose his damage will be fine with just a full knight and more offensive stats. Skip all the ehr and maybe use the new planar set. 25 cd and 25 fua DMG. Salsotto is CRIT though still. MoV helps you get hit more to go more fua too.
Gallagher can still apply his 2 debuffs so there's that. Gepard's niche is getting smaller by the day, it seems like.
IDK man, Gepard died the day Aventurine launched, he's better in every single way EDIT; I love shields so much, my next sustain I pull is probably going to be another shielder. Even if Lingsha is a better Gallagher, my Gally is e6 and there's no way I'm just benching him cos simply put the return of investment isnt worth it, esp as I want to GO BIG on Feixiao. If that's a mistake or not, time will tell :D
As a sustain, I will agree, but his inherent aggro buff provided a pretty unique perk that made him the best at triggering trend, pretty much. If trend is out of the picture with Jiaoqiu, Gepard's usefulness is even more limited... Not that it has an effect on me, because I don't have him anyway, but it's kind of sad.
How much of a boost to Acheron's E0 team is Jiaoqiu over trend Gepard though? It feels like 20% increase right now?
I'm not a good person to ask that to, sorry. I have no clue.
100% with u on this. Also plan to go big on Feixiao.
Probably better to switch it with an LC that gives Aventurine more damage.
With Svarog's attack pattern and Dino's AOE with S1 he would've enabled Acheron 1-2 more ult throughout this video.
Tbf this video is a F2P build so if you wanna give someone their S1 it should be Acheron lol
Good to know as someone with S1 aventurine
but if you see on dino and svarog 2 attack 1 "action", you can get 2 stack acheron ult, 1 from 1st attack or action 2nd is they use AoE attack and hit aventurine. so not completely useless, but yeah using other alternative is better i guess
If trend is enough to survive and you don't have aven signature i'd argue you still always run trend. 1 stack can save you a cycle sometimes
Yeah 1 stack is 1 action for other nihilities. Still insane
is trends bad on fx when paired with jiaoqiu? i was planning to pull on the next banner it appears on since i have none rn
Trends is “useless” here because the purpose of Trends is to inflict enemies with a debuff on their turn for Acheron to gain her ult counters faster. However, Jiaoqiu’s kit already accomplishes this, so there’s no reason to put Trends on Fu Xuan. If you’re running Fu Xuan, Jiaoqiu, Acheron then Fu Xuan can just use whatever LC of your choice.
You don’t want to use Trends at all on JQ comps. It provides no extra stacks with him on the team, unless you’ve under built his EHR.
[](/kmaudgraduation) You don't need to under build EHR. The aura is per _turn_, not per action. So elite double/triple actions give only one stack (at the start) but Trend gives up to three (per attack). It's not much, but it's not like sustains actually need anything better so may as well get few more stacks (especially in the new boss rush mode).
Actually in that mode specifically is where I would give Aventurine another LC cause this one barely gives 32% DEF, and those enemies hit like mfs
It's not bad per day, it's just less effective. However, there's something a lot of people in this thread are missing. Trends: - gives a stack when the PRESERVATION character with Trends is hit PER ACTION - doesn't give much survivability or utility compared to most other LCs (16% to 32% Def) - Must be preservation character (which till now we only have 2 decent ones for the hardest content, Adventurine and Fu Xuan) Jiaoqiu's field: - ANY character, per turn - won't give stacks until he uses ultimate - needs to use skill to increase field uptime, so he needs to use sp Honestly, at this stage, jiaoqiu's field does have some weaknesses, especially if he needs 1-2 turns to activate his ultimate in the first place. Using trends does fix some of these holes but there is opportunity cost to use better lightcones, an abundance unit or even a non-sustain unit like welt, Ruan Mei, another nihility etc. I'm currently using trends on gepard, and I feel like it is quite inconsistent for enemies to attack him even if he has A2 trace. It's like 1 in 3 hits for ST.
trends on FX could be good on MoC or Apocalyptic Shadow bc the enemies don't die too fast unlike PF
It might be useful when Svarog and the Dino attack twice during a turn, since Jiaoqiu's ult can only proc once per enemies' turn.
true but that's too much rng and with aventurine specifically his s1 might provide more stacks for acheron
Yeah, but that's S1. Not many people will have pulled for a Sustain's LC. I don't get why it's normal now to assume everyone has S1 on every unit.
Also if you have the jades for an S1 then go for Acheron's, don't waste it on Aventurine's
It's an *enormous* problem in the HSR community I've noticed. Everyone seems to assume people will pull for every S1, which is completely unrealistic for most f2p or even light spenders (monthy pass/battle pass) I only spend the $5 a month. Sure I could get more S1 (only one I did was Acheron) but then I'm missing out on more characters, which are way more fun than just "bigger number".
I don't get it either, because it didn't use to be the case. Not sure when exactly expectations changed, but how effective a character was as E0S0 with f2p LC used to be a huge factor in people judging how "good" a unit was. Maybe Acheron was the turning point? I'm completely f2p, and the only Sig LCs I have are Acheron's (I had 0 GNSW before her banner) and Ratio's (wanted to keep Herta LC on Seele). Every limited 5* I have is E0. I try to keep enough pulls banked that it's an option if it's another Acheron situation, but I always look for f2p alternatives first. It's a major consideration when pulling for me.
I think a lot of it is due to how "F2p Friendly" the LC banner is in comparison to Genshin's weapon banner. Both are scams, but Genshin's is definitely worse. I think it started quite a bit before Acheron. Jing Yuan (no other crit LC for Erudition) and Blade (nothing else was even close) both had a lot of "must pull LC" posts.
it’s also bc Genshin’s bp weapons are just much better than HSR’s. although both games have some decent craftable options, many of the bp weapons in HSR are basically useless / aggressively outshone by the other gacha 4* options
This is also true. Genshin at this point I basically never have problems finding a good weapon option (though having a massive account certainly helps) A year into HSR and for almost every character that releases (aside from Firefly) it's "alright, what fucking copium light cone option is it this time"
E0S1 FX folks WE ARE SO BACK😭🙏
This is great as now I can free up a space for better LC.
Yup. Honestly if you're saying just fuck sustain and go for as many stacks as possible then march with aventurine lightcone is probably meta now. Probably a decent 0 cycle setup
seems like healers like Gallagher is now just as suitable for Acheron’s team as preservations
Wait that's a lvl 50 LC on Acheron
Yeah. I didn't realize that Acheron's LC is still level 50, lol. I think there's nothing wrong because the damage is already crazy while testing.
Yea I was surprised cause of how high the dmg was
I don't want to criticize you, just wanna help you out. You should use "didn't" there instead of "doesn't" :)
Okay, noted
U should use instead, watch ur grammar lmao
Whoops hahahaha
“in stead” 🤣
Whoops
The something wrong is Jiaoqiu’s synergy with Acheron 🌚
bro ulted 10 times with E0S0
Yeah, that Acheron can still be improved but even in that state the run got really good numbers, I think Jiaoqiu in fact is a really good companion for her then.
No doubt he'll be a great team member for her but his kit is still quite weird for now.
The fact the prelim ehr trace of aven went to Jiaoqiu worked well here 30% ehr down from Jiaoqiu + 50% Effect RES from Aven, you're barely getting cc'd Also Acheron's Crimson Knot stacks charging is off the charts, more ults if she had her S1 and the frequent aoe attacks from Svarog and Dino charges the debuff from Aven's S1
Yep, he slots so well into Acheron + Aventurine. Really excited to pick him up
yea, him sropping the heal makes me think I go for aventurine on rerun unless a better debuffing sustain comes.
Wtf she gets a charge everytime an enemy took action because of his ult? Maybe I should stop trying to pull firefly now
IMO it's up to you. Firefly is broken at break meta whilst Acheron is broken everywhere. Both could be used for MoC, PF, and AS.
I know I know. I want both but my wallet say no
I wanted to pull for Firefly but after seeing Jiaoqiu I decided I'm pulling for him to improve Acheron, he's made for her. And he's cute, so that's on that.
Well, Firefly is great and even if you get her, Jiaoqiu will be in the second part of 2.4, you'll have the entire 2.4 to farm + the rest of 2.3. In the first half of 2.3 you can get up to 70 pulls + 36-40 in the second half, and we will probably have something around 100 pulls in 2.4, maybe more since we should have new maps. If you're not after Yunlin, you can easily get Jiaoqiu even if you get Firefly, you can even get his signature LC if you win 50%.
Hes on the second half of 2.4 so you still have time to save even if you get firefly
If you have Acheron and you use her a lot you absolutely should be pulling on JQ. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Wait i thought he reduced the effect resist of ennemies, not effect hit rate. Thats actually insane
Well effect resist would be just as insane tbh
depends on the team, for acheron team doesnt do anything but for dot team yeah
30k per Jiaoqiu "DOT", 70k per ult crit and 50k per skill huh also he NEEDS an energy passive or something, seeing him miss the the 1st ult by 1 energy is actually painful +this is funny how he turns acheron into a pseudo Erudition, she's ult-ing like every turn lol I also didn't notice this is Acheron on GNSW wtf, this damage is crazy considering how often she's ult-ing
He hits so surprisingly hard. He lost the healing and gained a dozen levels in PAIN!
not shocking since his Passive basically makes it so that he has 5k ATK in battle
Worth mentioning that Jiaoqiu has 57% crit and 110% CDMG while mantaining 140+ EHR (yes he has a crit chest). Your JQ probably isn't gonna hit as hard (unless you slave away in the mines for months)
You don't slave away at the mines for months?
Not for supports usually. I just slap 2 speed + 2 whatever is relevant on them and call it a day
I was intrigued by the crit build. Does his debuff crit since it’s not considered a DOT? If so, that’s huge.
Yeah, it does crit.
If he's e2, does it still crit?
Yes, but the E2 DoT won’t
That’s interesting because it already ticks like a DOT. Separate damage numbers for 1 debuff sound like problems.
The field does the additional damage, the stacks do the DoT on E2
Yeah it look unreasonable build... Ehr + Crit R and D + speed... What else....
Yeah, these relics are definitely hacked to be *perfect*. Don't forget the 140 speed. This is 100% unrealistic.
The 140 spd is the most realistic part of it he has spd boots and 2pc hackerspace on thats 31 spd alone. He only had 6 spd on one relic as well. Its a good build but not that unrealistic tbh( head piece and boots especially are realistic) if you actually farm relics.
Getting that good of an ERR rope is extremely unrealistic, but I suppose the rest of the pieces aren't *quite* as bad.
Honestly a good trade off. My biggest annoyance when playing Acheron is when a single enemy remain with 10% health after using the ultimate and I can’t kill them because my supports do 0 dmg.
That's such a good point I hadn't considered. Plus with Aventurine the extra damage could be what saves you wasting a whole Acheron ult on a single remaining mob.
This has been the main thing I like about firefly after playing mostly with Acheron since she released. Everyone on that team hits broken enemies hard lol.
I don't think it's surprising he lost the healing given how OP he is for Acheron even without his own personal damage. He's a victim of being created as a specific unit buffer and the devs realizing Acheron with Jiaoqiu that has healing has zero weaknesses. So he might not be as good for non-Acheron teams now, but he's still busted with Acheron. If anything this is an admittance that Acheron is way overtuned for any unit to be her dedicated support.
Seems a bit weird, though. Acheron too overtuned to have a dedicated support, but he’s not as good for other teams due to changes and still very busted for Acheron. Seems a better move is to make him better for other teams and less so for Acheron, because that still reads as a dedicated support… (Not that I think adding the heal back is the answer, a different utility would be preferable.)
Making his debuff count as DOT on E0 and more personal dmg would be nice tbh, I don't really care much about healing if it's so minimal to begin with.
thats his E2 which I most likely will be going for. Skipping Firefly and her lightcone to hopefully make it happen. He will be a much funner as my main Fire DPS especially with with dot comps with Kafka and BS. Only problem is my Acheron and Dot will fight over him. It will also make getting E2 Acheron near impossible as she probably reruns with him.
They can still buff his E2 instead. For example move E6 to E2, it's amazing but doesn't warrant E6. And then for E6 make it so the dot dmg deals 300% dmg per stack on enemy; it doesn't matter if it's broken because it's E6.
Depending on how his field works, shouldn't it be giving the enemies three debuffs (Ashen roast,ult vulnerability and effect hit rate down)? Or all his debuffs just Ashen roast? If they are all separate than if they change his e1 to allow allies to to proc Ashen roast during his ult he can be like Furina to the hp crit set and allow for any crit dps to reliably use pioneers for the full effect which would make him more general.
Someone here confirmed they are all separate, but putting that in an E1 wouldn’t be my preference because then he’s a dedicated Acheron support which requires much more money for everyone else. It’s already bad enough he’s locked out of DOT blessing abuse until E2 while still having a “DOT” Would be better to put it in base kit and require attacks from any ally to be the stack generator until E1, when enemy actions will trigger it as well. So then if Acheron mains want more OPness and to swap out Trends, they can do so but by getting E1. That’ll tamper the Acheron OPness hypercharging she doesn’t need and make him more universal considering she does already have Trend to do this job after all. Being an OP Acheron support should be the eidolon bait, not working for everyone else.
True, Acheron’s support shouldn’t synergize with Acheron’s kit until E1. Redditors are interesting creatures.
The point is he shouldn’t just be a dedicated Acheron support at base obviously lol. First Fire / Nihility limited male stuck being a dedicated Acheron support with a kit half copypasted from a 4-star is disappointing af and makes him the most niche limited in the game considering everyone else will likely be better off replacing him with a Harmony. Even Ratio has RRAT to get around it.
I don’t care about waifu husbandos so that “male support” point is meaningless to me. Black Swan is a dedicated support for Kafka and outside of that one team she’s mid. So, how is JQ any different? And i don’t think a support meant for buffing ult based dps is meant for Ratio teams + he just got Robin for his teams. The main issue here is that he’s not good with Argenti even as an ult based buffer. Printing stacks for Acheron is the only thing he is doing rn. If you remove that part from his kit, even Acheron is better off with SW + Pela because of how def shred stacks.
BS functions perfectly well on her own as a DPS without Kafka, they’re just enhanced together. Jiaoqiu is a SUPPORT for one unit. How are they even the same? The point is to buff other parts of his kit and put different utility at E0 (hell, maybe an energy buff? A speed buff? SOMETHING the non-Acheron carries can use to make him competitive with Harmonies) so he has other shit to do besides Acheron, which they can’t do if he’s already overbuffing Acheron. Jiaoqiu’s additional vulnerability for ult carries is only 15% additional anyway, that’s like saying Sparkle is meant to only buff Quantum teams cause of her Quantum trace.
Not necessarily. Although we never saw numbers, rumors are that his healing was going to be very minimal. If he can't solos sustain mediocre healing wouldn't be significant. if his healing disappeared for him to do more personal damage, I think that's a better trade-off to make him valuable in more teams. Added DPS on a damage buffer support makes him more universal than minimal healing that would still require sustain unit.
Dps pela sucks, more utility is more futureproof
Keep in mind these are most likely skewed numbers since the current pure fiction has this: **When 3 or more characters following the Path of Nihility are in the team, increases all allies' DMG dealt by 60% and SPD by 30%.** Honestly, even accounting for this buff the damage still looks a bit too high for an E0 lvl 50 lightcone acheron, hopefully the guy didn't forget to update the character profile.
This is very important to know and should be higher.
Its indeed lvl 50 lc, i just forgot to change its level
> Its indeed lvl 50 lc, **i just forgot to change its level** So, E0 Acheron and GNSW lvl 50 hitting over 590k in pure fiction? With spd boots on top? It seems super high. Maybe that 60% is straight out "pick the final number and add .6 of the amount to it". You should totally add in the description if you used that pure fiction buff. It could be very misleading.
It's also without his sig, which contributes a significant portion of his kit atm because the balancing for v1 is dumb
It's so hard to tell anything anyway cause of the pure fiction buff. Beta showcases always have to be taken with a lot of scrutiny, in this case even moreso.
the pure fiction buff gives all allies 60% damage dealt and 30% spd no?
57% chance to crit, the other 43% of the time he's only hitting for 12k, his damage is nothing special, keep in mind this jq has 57/110 crit ratio and 144 EHR with 140 spd along with the 60% PF dmg buff, he's not going to actually hit that hard in real circumstances.
Exactly. Achieving 140+ EHR without an EHR body and still having this crit ratio? Very hard to "normal" players (I'm one of them lol). Jiaoqiu it's not trash by any means, but he still needs some tweaking. I hope the beta testers pay enough attention to him. Since he's not a waifu, I don't really have my hopes up unfortunately.
This is the “missing piece” of his kit and why people think he’s not great–he’s a Pela level support *with Erudition level damage*, so if you write off his multipliers he looks bad. He does want a lot of EHR, but the numbers on this showcase are definitely attainable–my reserve relics for him are better than these, not even counting the buff from the 4pc Pioneer effect. If you put his multipliers side by side with Himeko’s, they are extremely similar, with his Additional Damage pseudo-DOT corresponding with her FUA. As another commenter said, he’s going to be great in PF (especially with enemy Action Advance gimmicks), but the whacky action economy in Apocalyptic Shadow is going to make his Acheron comps there very strong.
No wonder he's a fire character HE IS SO HOT OMG
Most fire characters except Hook are hot.
You're right, Hook's the bestest anyway.
"oh its not his sig LC I wonder what they used instea- Tutorial Nevermind then"
Yeah, Tutorial makes this farther out of my reach (actually unreachable) than just using his S1 lol. I wonder what % of players are in the same boat at this point.
Me. Feels bad man
Day 1 player didn't get tuturial cause 1.1 didn't add anything and I dropped the game for the patch because of that.
Damn, now when's 5* battery for my Argenti. They literally play the same, yet the power difference is... staggering to say the least.
The wackier your kit is, the more dedicated supports you can get ig. Imagine an Argenti battery being abused by JL or DoT teams
There's already huohuo and tingyun who gives 50 and at e6 60 energy. I highly doubt they'll make more battery units anytime soon. Though I'd love to get broken battery support because Argenti takes ages to ult especially available single target
\*cough cough\* huohuo \*cough\* tingyun \*coughs a little more\*
\*AAAAAAAhuhuhuhu\* 5\*Tingyun copium
What do you want from 5 star TY? a 100% battery? Wait actually...
Jiaoqiu my beloved, now if they give him some passive to help him generating energy.
As expected, unlimited blade (Acheron) works. His own damage is suprisingly relevant too, unlike Pela. Hard to tell how much he buffs Acheron's damage since she has pretty mid stats and she's using a level 50 cone lmao Sometimes the stack on enemy turn doesn't trigger, I assume it didnt "land" (I think you need like 177 EHR to guarantee it) Edit: okay Jiaoqiu has insane relics though, 57 crit 110 critdmg and 144 EHR. A "normal" JQ focusing on speed and EHR is not gonna do that much damage.
>Unlimited blade (Acheron) works Thanks, I'm taking that one.
>144 EHR Welp, I guess time for my Silver Wolf to finally say goodbye to Tutorial LC
> His own damage is suprisingly relevant too, unlike Pela This is with Tutorial and *every single relic piece* having ***perfect*** rolls. Very unrealistic.
Acheron 🤝 Jiaquo = Ulting every god dang turn
Jiaoqiu*
Okay but this time it wasn't Jiaoqui so is this a win?
jaicoco?
Jaicocku
What a pity that the soup part of his ult isn't sped up instead of Jiaoqiu's zoomed in face :(
Hey OP, is this ps publicly accessible or private?
Private
JQ in Pure Fiction is going to be straight up criminal for Acheron. Like she turns into an actual Nihility+Hunt+Erudition+Destruction unit lmaooo😭
Any content with really high speed enemies (like current apocalyptic Shadow) will be really good for her now
still hope they move his e2 into his base kit. That dot eidolan, no one will roll for it anyways outside mega DOT supporters.
I should have enough for him if I start saving now right?
Its like 9 weeks away I think so yeah.
And you also have the time until his banner ends, so 12 weeks
Yea you should, esp considering that 2.4 is a new region which means more jades
[удалено]
If you want anything more precise, you can get around 70 pulls in 2.3 First half + 36-40 in Second half and around 100 pulls or more in 2.4.
Can we see no acheron no pf
He’s already a given in an Acheron and Aven team to be good I’m kinda more curious of his performance outside of that. How much of an improvement is he over Pela/Gui in DOT teams? Can he be used in break teams or other team comps? I’m just hoping he’s gonna be at least an improvement to Pela in a general sense and not only be good/BIS in only 1 team.
Jiaoqui serving up some dinosaur jjigae
Jiaoqiu*
trying to prevent the widespread spelling of xingqiu as xingqui despite it being almost four years of genshin eh
This’ll be the next Xingqiu not Xingqui moment right here
Thank you OP. If is ok to ask, can you make a Jiaoqiu E0 + Ratio E0 showcase? Im really curious since i want JQ for him since i dont have acheron
Huh, why are the max points 47k instead of 40k? They definitely start at 0.
Its just error in PS scoring system, but everything else including enemy stat is still accurate.
private PS aw man, good stuff , can you do some Apoc Shadow or MoC runs as well ?
Looks insane really the synergy between him and Acheron. Especially against faster enemies getting multiple turns, id like to see MOC footage but i would not be suprised if you could easily be getting acheron ult up 3 times every cycle in the right team.
Is he BiS in any other teams aside from Acheron?
No, he's not even better than Pela in some teams like Boothill.
Jesus Christ
“Did I catch you trying to play the game?”
So we have to build Jiaoqiu Crit ????
It’s his next best stat after effect hit rate, yeah
EHR -> speed -> then cr crd
Is there any team I could use Jiaoqiu with if I don't have Acheron?
E2 seems like it would be cracked with Kafka+BS.
Can you confirm the max vulnerability from his stacks by looking at the character screen? A lot seem to think it is 40%, but I think it is 35%.
I just realized that because fire dmg on enemy's turn is not DoT, I think it can crit? The animations were not all that clear. This has its use case especially if he will be in crit team because there may be team wide crit dmg buffs. For example, Aventurine's ult can buff crit dmg a bit. Or just good old broken keel. Looking great. His 5 stacks are up pretty well except in the beginning. I'm gonna save pioneer pieces with EHR sub stats for now. (I'm still not sure how he will perform in my skill point hungry teams though.)
Yes, you can see it crit in this showcase (though you might have to use `.` on your keyboard to advance frame-by-frame).
Looks OP for Acheron teams but really tied to her So Acheron BiS E0 team should be Pela/Jiaoqiu/whatever (Solo sustain or even Gallagher since trend isn't a thing anymore with him) and E2 team should be Sparkle/Jiaoqiu/whatever ?
If you use Acheron E2 team, he can't use tutorial anymore as he won't have the Def down to trigger the energy.
Prayers to be made: Move e2 to base kit. Would love to see him in a comp eith Kafka, Gui, and Aven. Crossing fingers they let him switch between dot and debuffer playstyles so he's not forced to be glued to Acheron
For an E0S0 showcase, Jiaoqiu is looking to be a rather strong option for Acheron teams! It seems he may need at least an ER Rope, SPD Boots, and an EHR body piece with substats in other places no?
And with this kit he has now only to Acheron team unfortunately
We we'll be pulling
Is Pela better than BSe1 in this team?
so basically, sprightly vonwacq planar set him, energy rope, and use the 1.1 event lc to maximize the burst uptime
Premium Acheron teams still on top
Am I tripping or does Jiaoqiu's "apply debuff to enemy when they take turn" doesn't take effect all the time?
if you're talking about the boss, it's because it's once per turn
Anyone done the math on how much of an increase he is team dps wise compared to pela/swan/trend holder?
Surprised this is the first showcase of this beta. Aren't we usually flooded by them on the 3rd day of the beta?
Honestly this just makes me even more happy that I decided to skip Ruan Mei and save everything for fox man. ...obviously I want both, but right now I cannot afford them both, assuming I lose a 50/50 to at least one of 'em, and I've honestly known that I've wanted to pull Jiaoqiu since his drip marketing first came out. (my second team is all e0s0 RAT, and when I get Jiaoqiu Guinaiffen can move from my Acheron squad to that team lol--even moreso when I get her e1 finally😆) The fact that he can actually stack Slashed Dream every enemy turn, regardless of who they attacked, is insane, and makes me even more excited to pull him! ...that said, Imma keep Trends Gepard regardless. He's goated ☺️ (a word on me deciding to skip Ruan Mei. I am F2P and just started with Acheron's banner and have tried to pull for 4 things (Acheron, Aventurine, Topaz, and then losing 50/50 to Topaz's LC). In theory I do have enough in-game Jades left to reach both pity with Ruan Mei's banner (67 rn) and then save up for 180 pulls by the the time Jiaoqiu comes out. But... I don't want this game to run my life. I've stress-farmed Jades so hard so that I could pull all the previously mentioned characters, and while I know getting Ruan Mei now would greatly benefit my account down the line when I eventually get e1s1 Topaz on her rerun... but it's just not what I need right now. I'll get her eventually later!! :) )
is he good for anyone other than acheron though?
He's more like Ruan Mei/Robin, universal. Jiaoqiu doesn't need Acheron to become his best, but Acheron wants him to become her best.
Acheron is becoming even more and more balanced. She finally had a sorta rival with ff, but she really wants to be the clear top 1. The gap with King Yuan is more and more wide. It's becoming more than ridiculous that a super-opti JY E1S1 with 3 other premium support all with their LC sig does not even do half of what an Acheron E0S0 will probably do (with lc lvl 50 lmao) with Jiaoqiu and much more accessible options, while being slower and much less safe because even with Hanabi hyperspeed you're still forced to wait for the proc LL, and if you get cc'd because it can happen even with fx or huohuo you're just screwed.
Thanks for the showcase. His damage is no joke.
This was my main thing I wanted for acheron. My issue with acheron like every other hyper carry is that they have cringe af round errors due to all their damage being focused in one spot meaning that there are times they leave the enemy on high enough hp where you have to waste extra resources because the supports cant kill them. Thats why i like fua and break because while they dont deal as much damage as the main they can finish off the enemy. Add that with faster acheron ult gen and it looks good.
Yup this is also my frequent complaint when I play Acheron. He solves it quite nicely. That said I also hope he'll be viable in other teams.
Im planning on running Acheron e2s1 with sparkle (160 spd setup), aventurine (134 spd) and Jiaquo (134 spd, skill skill basic rotation). Will this team run out of skillpoints?
how can u run out of sp with sparkle dude :DDD
Oh a character only made for one character is not that bad with that character? You don't Say? But next question is jaoqiu good with other character and without pela to 1) boost him 2) make tutorial work... And you know tutorial is an old évent only lc... So... Maybe next Time I'll see a proper jiaoqiu showcase and not an acheron showcase...
According to early calc, right now he's "decent" with everyone, but only really good for Acheron. Even for Ratio, who likes debuffs, he's barely better than Pela.
Now I need one for E0S1 Acheron
Since you seem to have access through whatever means OP, is there any chance you could test something with his LC? I've heard conflicting things but supposedly you can either stack both states of it or the value of the second state is the total of both. Either way it would mean 28% extra vulnerability vs 18% which is kind of a big difference.
So Jiaoqiu is just premium Guinaifen?
Jeez, now I wonder why erudition path even exist lmao. What kind of support for erudition unit (mainly Argenti) have to get to achieve this kind of dmg and ultimate uptime consistency?, even then E2 Acheron can use that support too which in turn makes her better again than all AoE DPS unit combined. At this point is there any pros of running dedicated AoE/erudition unit than her on PF?. This makes me feel like instead of pulling Jade for PF, you should better pull Jiaoqiu (If you already got Acheron).
cant compare with acheron since acheron not relying on energy. just how fast to stack debuff which a lot easier. erudation tends to suffer from low scaling , so still possible if u have 3 premium supports tho true dat regarding jade. but i heard they at jade e6 to base kits, she probly strong now and can use in all contents with versatile teammates
I feel like it was a weird choice for hoyo to make erudition unit AoE dmg multiplier to be so low while you have someone like Acheron that have super high dmg multiplier on her single target focused AoE ultimate with an in build res penetration already as a bonus lmao. You can see that even Jade suffer from this. The only reason to not pull her at this point would be if you don't like her character/personality at all.
IKR acheron really special case from hoyo Not only her ult is full AEO, but those scaling is nasty af jade is erudation + elation, she wont do acheron type of damage, but its gonna be fun seeing those wombo combo in pf and divergant universe :D
He looks pretty good but hopefully they remove the weird sub dps gimmick and go all in on debuffs, and also give some energy trace to allow turn 1 ult
Is the max vulnerability from Jiaoqiu 35% or 40%?
40% without Eidolons.
40