People who say it’s okay to do these kinda lore changes are completely delusional. What if they made death Vader a woman? Luke actually adopted or maybe he was trans like would they really be okay with that? Assuming no then it’s simply double standards for warhammer. But if yes then how can anybody including themselves take those arguments seriously. Guess we don’t. Suppose that’s why we are here
Disney is literally doing this, that’s why they called all the old stories “legends” and are re writing characters like Thrawn. It happened to SW! It can happen to 40K…
Becuase unlike darth vader the custodes are a group of people, who are more interesting when you can tell different stories with them? Because their gender is not a central part of their lore presence unlike Vader and Luke? Because the lore has always been changed like this in 10 thousand different instances and is part of how the universe is written?
Do you think female space marines are a good idea? I think most of people aren't as bothered by this specific change as they are by what the change represents or means for the future of the setting. I think a lot of political disagreements over concrete issues are really about abstract ones.
For my part I think female custodes are sensible from a lore perspective in a way that female space marines are absolutely not. From a storytelling perspective I think that the presence of single gender factions perhaps paradoxically bring a greater diversity to storytelling possibilities.
I would ignore it, like all the other things in life that I don't particularly like. It's quite easy you should try it. That is truly what hurts them the most, indifference.
Oh yes, because you see, I'm not the kind of guy who throws money at expensive toys. I mill through the books, and have done for years. I'm a lorebeard. See, to lose yourself novel by novel to the fantasy is a wonderful thing... until the publicly traded company mass producing the new lore decides at the behest of its brain-parasites, the shareholders, to scrap lore that's been a solid and reliable anchor for literal decades. Its like you walk into your living room and one of the members of your family has changed skin colour and gender and noone seems to notice but you. Sure, you'd love your mum whatever her skin colour was but it's an intolerable inconsistency; a discord between what you know and what you're being shown. In reality a situation like that would have a *watsonian explanation*, which would wrap everything up nicely and give closure. Knowing it could only be watsonian gives reassurance that there is a satisfying explanation, whose certain existence is itself satisfying. But when you know that dissonance between what you know and what you see could only be doylist, the fourth wall is relentlessly broken **every** time you see your new Asian mum's face. In other words, it breaks immersion in the lore beyond repair when consistency is too badly abused. Bad enough when a dozen authors use 'unreliable narrator' as a cop-out for fucking EVERYTHING rather than just put the work in to be a bit consistent, but then you have straight-up 'and the last four decades were all a dreeeeeaaaaam!' bullshit that immersion in the setting simply can't survive.
That's not even getting into the argument to be made for male fantasies being bulldozed and homogenised because women are allowed to have female-only spaces but the far-left won't tolerate male-only spaces.
Good-faith arguments are wasted on things like you. You make it difficult for other, more reasonable people than yourself who hold similar views to yourself to come and discuss and debate civily with us, because you flame and shittalk and foster the belief that the next of your kind to address us will be as hostile and malicious as the last.
In short, you're giving your own people a bad name and setting your own cause back by years with your childish heckling.
You flamed yourself my dude. I don’t have a cause I have a hobby. I literally already said I don’t invest my happiness in the decisions of games workshop, or Reddit for that matter. You should try it.
No, a better example would be if they took a trans character and had them go back to being cis and saying , 'yeah that was just me during a very confused period of my life, I was all messed up' or a popular female character being turned into a dude. They'd be burning storefronts by nightfall.
How about we do a reverse Velma and take black characters people grew up with like Gerald from Hey Arnold, Vince from Recess or Frozone from The Incredibles and make 'em white? Hell, that wouldn't even be close. Velma had been around SIXTY YEARS when they pulled that shit, and even longer for the butchery that was The Rings of Power. Those black characters are only a few years old.
Because they are. Im 100% going to get downvoted here but yall are unhinged lol.
Vast majority of you dont even play or paint the models anyways its all just rage farming.
Femme custodes are going to be badass models and really thats all i care and expect from GW.
Youre not forced to put the femme custodes on the board and if they have good rules, just proxy like every other normal person.
The only reason why they didnt make femme models before literally came down to economics. It would cost double the amount to produce two versions of the same sprue if one was femme and the other was male. Now the technology to make models and the crowd around the game is significantly bigger and they can now be more inclusive.
If youre going to tie your dick in a knot then feel free. I for one am excited about the new models. Sisters of Battle is byfar the most interesting human faction by their looks alone and im hoping that the custodes will get a nice new makeover alongside the introduction of femme custodes.
See the most bizarre thing about this comment and what sounds most true “badass models and really that’s all I care and expect from GW.” If that was true at scale then we simple wouldn’t have GW. They could never charge as much as they do even with better quality. The reason they are able to charge so much is because the lore. I am not buying a badass model of a big dude. I am buying Horus the war master. The man burned half the imperium in 7 years in an epic galaxy spanning civil war.
The lore is a critical part is the success of GW and if I can not speak to that there are dozen of YouTubers and hundreds of books which will.
Also not this will have worth to your ears but I am did not follow you to your own subreddit and I did not make arguments which have nothing to do with the context of conversation. I do believe you would fit the definition of unhinged
Theyre able to charge as much as they do because they have the best models and have cornered the very niche market.
The lore helps them sell models yes, but their models have been going up, regardless of the quality of their lore.
lore was always got weird changes, its just another one little lore bit that would be forgot, like the fact that iron hands' power armour can function without space marine itself, or machine spirit of titan receive a PTSD
It's not small. Its taking away a huge part of the custodes appeal. People got attached to them because they were a male-specific fantasy, and GW had time to change that before it was too late. Instead they waited until people had spent decades loving it as it was. It was too late to change it. It's the difference between someone adopting you at 6 months old and your parents putting you up for adoption at 35.
Well custodes aren't exactly showed as specifically male thing, entire idea of Custodes, is being a next step of evolution not a bio weapon with daddy issues
Wrong. Check this page out
https://thatparkplace.com/warhammer-40k-novelist-james-swallow-confirms-he-included-gender-transition-propaganda-into-his-iron-bone-story/
There's an excerpt from a 1987 rogue trader stating custodes are all men in addition to other codex entries in 2017 and 2018 and a slew of other lore examples I've seen.
Moderation should open this sub for image comments for a while. Then loads of screengrabs would do the rounds and people would stop this misinformed denial and misinformation spreading.
https://thatparkplace.com/warhammer-40k-novelist-james-swallow-confirms-he-included-gender-transition-propaganda-into-his-iron-bone-story/
There's a 1987 reference to it from Rogue Trader on this page, two Codex entries from 2017 and 2018 and a slew of others, so 'nice try' bitch. History is on **our** side, Marge.
Brotherhood is not necessarily a gendered term despite the root word. For a fun example look at fallouts "Brotherhood" of Steel.
You can learn more silliness in my Ted talk, "The English language is stupid and held together mostly by spite."
as the other user already mentioned is brotherhood not used for exclusively male groups but also mixed groups (havent seen it used for all female groups but that's not important here).
No logic is welcome here.
This post is for grown men who are annoyed about a small change that doesn’t affect the game at all.
I’ll die on the downvoted hill with you
Debate is welcome here, and the proof is that even your worthless, inflammatory shittalking doesn't get removed nor do you get banned. You're welcome to discuss with people here and instead find the only person you can to have a circlejerk with within this sub. Meanwhile if we said any mild thing in sigmarxis or grimdank you people would freeze, stop breathing till you turn blue and mash the ban button till you have to replace your mouse.
The ham-fisted retcon has enormous implications and issues that effect fans of the faction and the setting. If it doesn't impact you it's only because you're not a fan of the setting we had and just want it altered before you'll enjoy it.
See here for details: https://www.reddit.com/r/HorusGalaxy/comments/1d1mqh7/comment/l5xiifd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Tbh this is partially the reason why I even look at this worthless sub; to see grown people annoyed because people are respecting and accepting of others.
You come in here for the same reasons you bluehairs hang out in crysubs like facepalm, justunsubbed and nahfuckthatopwasright: because you're miserable with your lives and addicted to getting pissy, so you keep coming back to places that make you butthurt so can get into a good lather again. People who're bitter often just need excuses to complain and will gravitate to places and people that give them fuel to keep bitching.
People here have good reason for their qualms: our decades-old hobby is being butchered by suits to attract fresh money and we're being brigaded by butthurt wokies who'd gaslit the reddit WH fanbase that extreme-leftist views are the norm and anything outside of that and you must be a nazi bigot misogynist. We have good reason to be here in civil discussion. You have no such justification. You are entirely here out of intolerance for moderate, centrist opinions backed by logic. You are in the wrong, and only the poisonous echo chamber that's 1984'd you has deluded you otherwise.
The projection here is strong.
I am rather happy with my life and hobby. I am not getting pissed while reading the absolute intolerant garbage takes on here.
You say "our" hobby but just as it is your hobby, it is mine.
I am not even going to comment on the last paragraph as it is just hateful, filled with "us vs them" rhethoric and vilifying anyone outside your point of view.
I am sorry you have a problem with people being tolerant, open and accepting, and want to change their IP to fit more modern sentiment .
If you were really here to do more than spew garbage you'd have read a few posts and seen we're not like that here. Oh aye, I'll reply to the odd shitetalker by telling them how backwards and hateful they are, but our MO is frank and constructive discussion even with intolerant rat-dicks such as yourself. We'd rather not ban people for breathing wrong like you do in your subs because we have reasoning on our side. No, you ARE just here out of addiction to bitterness-fuel and you've failed to assuage that assertion.
Go ahead and flip back through my comments for proof. I'm prone to going into detailed explanations of our stances and motives for our causes in good faith even suspecting strongly (and rightly) that my counterpart interlocutor is a bad actor just waiting to start what you have: jeering and putting words and agendas in our mouths. I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt where I can, even if it's exhausting.
You are not WH fans, we are. We love it for what it is and you only want it contingent on it changing.
You are not tolerant. You are just a different kind of intolerance. You are part of the single most intolerant group in modern society. We on the other hand don't censor or ban except to prevent Reddit from shutting the sub down. We are an open forum of political moderates, not the 'right-wing chudfest' you people delude yourselves we are.
>you'd have read a few posts
I have and have seen people be exactly that. Miserable, discontent and pissed off about GW's lore.
>You are not WH fans, we are.
Ah, the no true scotsman fallacy.
>You are not tolerant.
Please look up the paradox of tolerance.
>You are part of the single most intolerant group in modern society
Who would that be? What do you even know about me..?
>We are an open forum of political moderates
Oh please, there is nothing to back this up. Furthermore, assuming that any group of people is a political monolith is an easy way to be just wrong. However, if we say that "accepting LGBTQ people" is a left-wing point, we can conclude that "not accepting LGBTQ people" would be a right-wing point which is something I have seen over and over in this sub (but that is, obviously, besides the point).
We're quite justifiably upset over our hobby being demolished y suits and tourists. You people have no justification, just bile.
It's not the no true scottsman fallacy; no goalposts have been moved, and there is a valid difference between lovers of the franchise and politically motivated tourists who'll only enjoy it contingent on it conforming and sanitising itself for their politics.
I've heard your crap about the paradox, but it's used by wokies to attack anything you hate by accusing others of intolerance to justify your own intolerance. Please look up 'crybully'.
And yes, there's plenty to back it up. This whole sub is evidence of how this sub behaves, but you people stamp in shittalking, discarding reasonable stances and instead elect to put arguments in people's mouths so you can feel superior when you attack them. Most people here don't give a shit if GW stuffs a gay into a book provided they do the WORK to make the character interesting, but we rightly have a problem with crowbarred-in tokenism. Also, no we don't have to be pro LGBT to not be right wing. LGBT is a political movement that **pretends** to be the same thing as gay/trans rights etc in the same way MAGA purports to be the same thing as pro-freedom and pro-traditionalism. Political cunts forming groups always try to 'claim' virtues as an identity particular to them. We are largely centrist here. No matter how much you want us to be bigots and nazis, that's just cope you tell yourself so you intolerant far-left cunts can come brigading us for not wanting huge retcons, the destruction of male-centric factions and the franchise being sold by Blackrock to tourists for DEI money.
>You people
Again, it is my hobby as well.
>politically motivated tourists
And here you call me a tourist while I have been enjoying the hobby for a long time.
>but it's used by wokies to attack anything you hate
I am sorry what? This paradox is almost 80 years old, what are you even talking about.
>so you intolerant far-left cunts can come
I am sorry but resorting to namecalling already defeats you and I am certainly not far left.
And you just ignore the argument in favour of cherrypicking, typical of your kind. Something can be both reasonable snd insulting btw. Just because reality offends you doesn't mean it's not reasonable.
You’ve got more in common with the blue hairs than you think, you identify as something (logical and reasonable) that you’re in fact the opposite of.
Your assumptions about me are hilarious btw.
If brownie points from political activists are more important to GW than their long time loyal customers, then fuck their bottom line.
They've been absolutely gouging money out of us for decades, so it's time for payback, I'll be happy to see Games Workshop gone.
i'm not even mad at retcon in itself as even if it pure lazyness it can bring great thing, its the additional salt that it wasn't done for the story but for a political message. If they retconed it to include pepsi in the lore and said space marines always drank a lot of pepsi, i would feel the exact same.
1. Gw is the laziest kid on the block. I was pirating their staff long before this and will still continue.
2. Why did you compare the eyistance of women to comerical brand like Pepsi which sole existance would be to sell more drinks? Like... you realize women aren't some corporate or organisation that will rule the world and are just a HALF OF THE DAMN WORLDS POPULATION.
It is you who didn't understood women are just a product for them, a checkbox that they hope will bring more money if checked. Otherwise they would not have force introduced them like this with custodes.
You are speaking to people here that like to collect the sisters of battle because they are one of the most badass group in warhammer. We aren't the one disrespecting women here we just do not blindly drink bullshit.
You bigot! Just because in the first 300 books (holy shit) female custodies have never been mentioned doesn’t mean something’s wrong with them! Their perfectly fine!
*opens third blue eye*
Whenever I see the amount of 40k novels people read I think man, many people haven't read this many novels period. Like you could have read all the sci-fi classics in the time you took you read 30,000 pages of young-adult tier dross.
I have read as many sci-fi classics as I can get my hands on. All the foundations series. Ring world series. One of my favourites was the Hyperion series. Heinlein is probably my favourite author over all. New stuff like the Expanse series was good. I have full shelves and a stack standing beside them. I read 40k as fun stuff when I'm taking a break from the serious stuff and there is nothing at all wrong with that.
I've definitely had fun reading some of them. The fight between Big E and Horus was a fantastic read. No spoilers if you haven't read it, but it's great how it was done on so many levels
The logical reason is that the Emperor couldn't make Custodes at that time as he was chair-stuck.
The emperor should have damn rethink his stance on women goldies whem half of his empire turned traitor. Anyoff-worlder or even terran was thrown into the meatgrinder to slow down Horus. And the 10,000 are being slaughtered in the webway. Any woman(non-blank) here and there would be a welcomed help for the exhausted custodes.
The Custodes aren't cannon fodder; you can't churn them out just to fill the ranks. Each one is hand-made and "bespoke". I'm actually not convinced many, if any, new Custodes were made between the start of the Webway War and the end of the Horus Heresy.
As to the Emperor rethinking female Custodes... why would he? You haven't made a case for why he'd change his mind. That's not "logical".
And the biggest thing is that there is more recruits and seeing how long it takes for a single custodes, and their kill rates, transition to eyes of the emperor and such it would be more logical for the emperor to have both as it helps to keep custodians up, especially after the heresy and now with the rift
Or after the Khorne Daemon invasion of terra before Guilleman arrived. Iirc they lost a lot of Custodes during that and not long after they started leaving terra in force. Seems like a good time to expand recruitment.
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"If you go looking for trouble, you're sure to find it." -Gilbran Quail
TBF, Aaron Dembski-Bowden did say that he always wanted Female Custodians, and most of the writers wanted it. Then an exec at GW shut it down. So he wrote the first heratic in a way that allowed him to add them to the cannon later. And the rest of the writes avoided adding any lore that would prevent them from doing it.
That statement by them was utterly fucking stupid and I'm saying that as someone that is left leaning.
There are so many ways that you could make female custodes (or I dont know, just give the already female dominated groups that have existed for a long time a bit of love?) that, yes, will still annoy people, but it would be at least 200 times less disrespectful to the existing fanbase than a comment like "they have always been there actually"
And I know someone will likely say "no, no girls at all" so let me just give you my vision on what female custodes would be so I dont get misunderstood.
Male or female, it should not matter, they are custodes, the best of the best of mankind, the protectors and caretakers of the emperor and the biggest bad-asses in the universe.
When fully armoured up, you should'nt be able to tell the difference between an originally female or male custodes, sex or gender dont matter, they are custodes.
When not wearing a helmet, a female custodes would not be some model, they look like a grizzled, roided up, mega-badass and they conduct themselves like it too, just like the men because femininity or masculinity doesn't matter to them, the only thing that matters is can I kill all the unholy bullshit and how fast can I do it.
Anyhow if they go that path (and lets be honest, they likely will), thats how I hope they handle it, it should'nt be a big point that is super important, because all that matters is that they are the Emperor s finest and they are here to bring some of the Emperors mercy to those that need it.
Is there a particular reason people here don‘t like that they changed the lore regarding female custodians or is it just because they don‘t like contradictory lore?
Probably a bit of a few kinds of rage. You got your practical it’s not in the lore folks. You got your prejudice folks, and your anti pandering to a political movement folks. The prejudice People can get bent. The lore gatekeepers have a solid argument, but at the end of the day they have a choice to accept the changes in their mind or not and continue living life.
Now the anti political group is a whole thing I don’t wanna break down before lunch lol. I tend to lean towards not wanting everything in any entertainment medium to try and include every kinda person, otherwise it all becomes diluted. If someone or a group wants more things to enjoy, then they should start creating new things and we would have more original work then co-opted established franchises.
Not changing lore to fit the “times” is not bigotry. Nor is it disallowing anyone from joining the experience. It simply keeps the world and original vision cohesive with less continuity errors, and that is not a bad thing.
edit: removed a word imputed twice.
Thank you for the explanation. I think I understand it better now. I agree that prejudice people can get bent. I tend to think that there‘s nothing wrong with pandering to a particular crowd or more diversity is bad, as long as it makes sense in the story. If Disney would say, that the clone troopers in Star Wars had females soldiers, they would have to give a good-ass reason, how thats possible but as for the custodians, I don‘t see how it‘s impossible or even improbable that there had been female custodians. In a franchise like WH where a big part is the cool looking miniatures and awesome designs, I think a bit of diversity is definitively a good thing.
It's obvious that the change was implemented for IRL political reasons and not because it makes the setting better inherently.
The way it was done was lazy, and makes it clear GW doesn't put any stock in their established canon which means there's no reason to care about any of it.
It further contributes to the sidelining of actually interesting female factions like the sisters of silence.
It doesn't bring more women into the hobby, so even claims about representation fall flat.
Sooo you used to buy them, and now you're mad about the middle line and you decided to pirate the rest of the novels? Not criticising, just trying to understand.
Okay, look, GW have always been doing retcons and lore changes for 30+ years, and I have never heard a thing about that but now that GW tries to make things more inclusive/ more welcoming then you start complaining?!?. You're not angry that GW is retconing. You're angry because they put women in 40k. If you're going to complain about something, then at least be honest and just say you're sexist
The difference is that primaris marines have an actual impact on the story/lore, but custodians with tits doesn't matter in the slightest, and I haven't seen people be half as mad at the primaris marines as the female custodes
It can be true since there would be very small differences from male Custodes, so wouldn't be so noticeable. Hate GW because of that is just stupid, they didn't remove male Custodes after all, one confirmed femstodes wouldn't ruin setting (tweet is not canon, since even some books are not considered canon)
People tie themselves up into knots to justify stealing.
You're stealing from GW, that's about it. GW not being serious about their lore, does not justify being a thief.
Edit: Just ask yourselves, does GW's treatment of the lore justify you walking into a GW store and taking the books off the shelf and walking out? Because downloading the book is basically just that.
Edit: I'd just state for the record that I seem to have been blocked by Live-D8 by pointing out that piracy is breaking the law.
If they are going to trash the lore then it has no intrinsic value. So yes, it’s justifiable to read it without paying imo. And it’s not like all the main plot points aren’t already summarised on the wikis anyway.
Now whether or not this constitutes stealing; no it is not the same as taking a book from the shelves:
- GW must pay to replace the stolen book and transport it back to the store; this does not occur with illegal downloads
- illegal downloads do not deprive the original owner of the item
- many people download books, games and videos etc. that they had no intention of paying for. If they couldn’t get it for free then they would just go without. So in most cases it’s a victimless crime
Finally even if it is stealing, GW deserve to be punished for invalidating lore that people have already paid for. What is the point in dutifully buying books if GW will just undo it with a shitty social media post. It’s reminiscent of when Disney bought Star Wars and decided all the books were non-canon; despite people spending hundreds of pounds and thousands of hours consuming them.
>no intrinsic value
Just because you think something has no intrinsic value, stealing is ok? Come on now. Why stop at GW's books then? Just steal their entire shop since it has no intrinsic value.
>illegal downloads
I find it bizarre that you can rightly recognize that this is an illegal download, but still argue that it is not stealing. Piracy is copyright theft. The law recognizes this. Western democracies with the rule of law all recognize this, which is why we mock cheap China knock offs of western brands.
>many people download books, games and videos etc. that they had no intention of paying for. If they couldn’t get it for free then they would just go without. So in most cases it’s a victimless crime
The rights holder loses money that should have been paid. The rights holder is the vicitim. It's that simple.
>Finally even if it is stealing, GW deserve to be punished for invalidating lore that people have already paid for. What is the point in dutifully buying books if GW will just undo it with a shitty social media post.
You can punish GW by just... not buying their books. See, you don't need to be a thief.
Well I can see there’s no arguing with stupid; you literally cannot tell the difference between raiding a physical store vs making a digital copy of something that you had no intention of buying anyway.
you never had a parking ticket? never speeded? never jay walked? most people on this world have broken some laws in their life, and thats fucking ok.
why do you care at all? in the end, GW doesn't get money.
See, Rule 1.
*Yet also heed this, engaging in debate or dissent does not signify disrespect towards you. Nor shall such clashes be deemed heretical, for in this realm of unrestrained discourse, we trust every citizen to possess the fortitude to endure the onslaught of opposing viewpoints.*
*"Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." -Imperial Guard Tactical Manual*
Maybe people, who spend thousands of dollars, wouldn't be taking from them if they listened to them. Personally, I'm going the 3D printed route until they do listen, that's $5k-$10k a year gone that my family spends. They want this to stop? Listen to the fans who keep them afloat monetarily.
I want to keep collecting and playing, so I'll print my own minis, download the codexes, buy second hand. I'll not punish myself for their errors. Additionally, I've offered all of the players at my three local FLGS free printed minis, not a one of them is happy with the changes either. So GW can keep stacking up the lost revenue.
I hate to break it to you, but FLGS depend on official GW sales to keep their lights going. They can get by with some non-GW accessory sales, but the main profit items are GW minis. This is the reason why some FLGS just ban 3D prints or have rules about how many 3D prints you can play in the store.
Even if your FLGS is totally cool with 3D prints, you playing the game there is still helping the GW economy. A new curious player seeing you play, is going to buy GW plastic. They have no ability to 3D print, and no one is going to 3D print a 2000 point army for them.
Lol. You obviously haven't been to my three FLGS, they make money off of other products (Magic, Bolt Action, etc) and have cut down on their GW stock without missing a stride. Two of now them have 3D printers and and are offering prints for sale. Keep trying though!
Lol. If your FLGS is 3D printing GW stuff for sale then they are just breaking the law in a more flagrant way since they are doing it for profit. Like I said, people are tying themselves into knots to justify breaking the law.
Besides -
**Even if your FLGS is totally cool with 3D prints, you playing the game there is still helping the GW economy. A new curious player seeing you play, is going to buy GW plastic. They have no ability to 3D print, and no one is going to 3D print a 2000 point army for them.**
WHAT?!? Oh no, they're probably completely unaware of that!!! I'm sure they'll be shocked to hear this!! LMFAO. They don't care. Maybe don't bite the hands that feed?
Edit: they're just making the printers available, what we print is supplied by the patron with the files they bring in on the flash drive. Is it skirting the fine line? Absolutely.
First you said two of the FLGS are offering prints for sale. Now you say that the print is supplied by the patron with the files. So which is it lol.
And does any of this really make a difference the the main discussion? The whole thing is still just breaking the law. Either the FLGS is breaking the law, or the patron is breaking the law, or both.
From GW's perspective, it's loss revenue, the same thing as a person who is boycotting GW by not buying and not printing. Meanwhile your FLGS is just a IRL advertisement for GW every time a new person walks into the store and sees people playing 40k
They're offering the service of the printers, my bad for the confusion. I'll note to be very specific when speaking with you in the future, it's not a problem as I'm used to doing so with my less intelligent employees already.
We don't care. Did you not get that either? Lmao.
They can loose revenue and we can still get our minis and books, just not from them.
And what's the substantive different you are trying to highlight?
It's a form of property ownership. Taking from the IP owner is a property crime and/or actionable in a civil claim. Same framework for physical theft.
Different laws, different definitions, different punishments. If you go to court and try to build your case on "theft", you will lose, since you're prosecuting for a crime that didn't happen.
>It's a form of property ownership.
But nobody *took* the property. They *copied* it which is *copyright*, not theft.
Yeah but I'm not going to court or using the legal definition of theft. Piracy is the theft of IP. Stealing an intangible thing is different from stealing a physical thing. But both acts are illegal under the same broader principle which is property rights. If you really want to conceptualize the issue as "taking", the pirate is taking the profits that the IP owner would ordinarily get from the sale of the book.
>Piracy is the theft of IP.
[Stop lying.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piracy) Just because *you* think it's theft doesn't turn it into theft.
>the pirate is taking the profits that the IP owner would ordinarily get from the sale of the book.
It sounds like you work for a publisher. A pirated copy is not the same as loss of sale, as you cannot prove that the pirate would have bought the item if he/she couldn't pirate it. You're talking about things you clearly don't understand, and just apply your feelings instead of actual logic.
You *do* realize that my main point wouldn't change at all even if I completely agreed with you?
"People tie themselves up into knots to justify breaking the law.
You're committing an illegal act, that's about it. GW not being serious about their lore, does not justify breaking the law"
>[Stop lying.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piracy) Just because *you* think it's theft doesn't turn it into theft.
Really a dictionary definition? I've explained to you why I am using the term theft. Here is a [law firm](https://www.coxwelllaw.com/criminal-defense/computer-crime/piracy/#:~:text=Although%20at%20first%20glance%2C%20piracy,paying%20for%20it%2C%20it's%20illegal) saying piracy is theft. Now I can understand that this law firm is using "theft" in the more general sense of piracy interfering with a property's owner rights. I don't get why you are trying to pin me to a dictionary or legal definitions when I am using the word generally.
>A pirated copy is not the same as loss of sale, as you cannot prove that the pirate would have bought the item if he/she couldn't pirate it.
A pirate copy is a copy that should have been paid for. That's a dollar value that should have been paid to the company.
If the pirate would not have bought it if they could not pirate it, then in the no-piracy scenario, the company suffers no loss because no one is enjoy their IP without paying for it.
Stuff is posted on reddit for people to reply. I am replying. You have come on here to reply to me, so I reply to you. Suddenly pulling out "mind your own business" is extremely bizarre on your part.
I'm not bringing negative opinions. I'm bringing the reality of what everyone is doing. You are breaking the law when you pirate stuff. Depending on the country you are in, this can be a criminal offence.
The best part is that this reality applies regardless on whatever is your view concerning GW's DEI policies. Piracy is illegal. It's illegal if you are pirating "woke LGBT trash", it's illegal if you are pirating conservative media.
You bring negative opinions here, with your bullshit, you think you have any opinion posting you this is illegal pirating is illegal all this all what you bring is a reason more why people like you aren't welcome here all you do is gaslight, of course I said mind your own business like you should do, Im sorry if I didn't make it clear in the first place but all what you bring is negative like all this woke bullshit, nothing good came from it and you are one more example why people are against it. Happy with this? You and your opinion here makes looks other's of you bad. But what can I tell when you don't even get that mind your own business.
Brother, a single box of Marine Devastators can buy me and my mom a week of groceries. Call me a Deathskull boi cause imma yoink anything I can for free.
If you can't afford something don't buy it lol. Last I checked you don't need plastic minis to stay alive.
"I can't afford this luxury, so that justifies me stealing it"
Piracy is breaking the law, its absolutely true.
Does not mean it is evil.
Also you're making a false equivalency. When you steal physical goods the people charged with managing those goods get punished, when you steal digital goods the only thing you're doing is not paying the seller.
You haven't taken money from them, you've just made sure they cannot make money from you, digital goods are fungible. GW could make a million digital copies of the same book in an hour and store it on a 2 TB Hard drive.
Are you going to argue that piracy is morally justified when you don't like the IP rights holder? Come now.
Sure, theft can be morally justified in some narrow situations. A poor person stealing bread is not morally evil, they are driven by necessity. GW goods are luxuries that you don't need to stay alive. People pirating GW are motivated by purely selfish reasons of wanting the product without paying. Whether you want to use "evil" is up to you, but I think it's pretty clear that everyone advocating for piracy here are not acting in a moral manner.
A person that pirates is using the product for free. That's money that should have gone to GW. If you are drawing some kind of distinction between "taking money from them" versus "making sure they cannot make money from you" does that really matter? It's still illegal, and not moral.
And please, you can make sure that GW does not make money from you by just not buying their stuff. Piracy is entirely additional.
I'm not arguing that piracy is morally justified when you don't like the IP rights holder, I am arguing that piracy is morally justified when you are not stealing from people.
Corporations are not people, they Claim legal personhood when it suits them but stop being people very quickly thereafter. I will steal as many digital products from them as I feel like and they can eat my ass, I do not care about their politics. I do not respect them regardless.
EDIT: When corporations stop being an everything proof shield that the rich use to protect their privilege I will stop stealing videogames and movies from them.
This is somehow even worse reasoning.
Companies are legal persons in just about every western democratic country with rule of law. You wishing otherwise isn't going to change this.
Your point basically boils down to "I'm going to ignore the law because of my feelings".
~ typed on a device produced and bought from a corporation, over an internet network operated by a corporation, on a social media site owned by a corporation
Corporations having legal personality and owning property are fundamental to pretty much all the conveniences of modern living that you currently enjoy. You can probably count with one hand the amount of times you fully actually transacted with a natural person.
Yeah... fuck them... ?
Absolutely. I am under no obligation to fawn over the assholes who built my house and my phone.
They didn't do it because they like me, they didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart, there is no moral agency behind the actions of the institutions who built this world of ours.
Everything they do they do for their own self perpetuation. Everything I do I do for my own gratification and self actualisation. The only obligations I am under are those enforced upon me by the government. Who can and will send policemen to my house to drag me to prison when I do something they do not like.
That said, stealing data online for personal use is essentially never prosecuted since the police have better things to do. So long as I'm not dumb enough to try and resell their property I can torrent as much legal software and media as I bloody want.
Why in gods name would I ever pay for their stuff they're assholes anyway.
It always baffles me when people who lives in the 21rst century, who are using computers, don't even have a clue of what computers do...
Copying a file is not a theft. The original file is still there, the owner still possess it, you just duplicated it.
Copyrights laws were made to protects physical objects from counterfeit, most of them don't make sense in the digital age.
There is also no known correlation between warez and ''piracy'' and loss of revenu from the company making those files. In fact there is arguably a loss of revenue from making anti-copy formats that will only cause problems to the people who are not the so called ''pirates''.
As a side note, those copyright laws that try (because nobody is actually enforcing these laws unless you are making a business out of your copies) also conflicts with the laws that allows me to use my property the way I see fit.
People who say it’s okay to do these kinda lore changes are completely delusional. What if they made death Vader a woman? Luke actually adopted or maybe he was trans like would they really be okay with that? Assuming no then it’s simply double standards for warhammer. But if yes then how can anybody including themselves take those arguments seriously. Guess we don’t. Suppose that’s why we are here
Disney is literally doing this, that’s why they called all the old stories “legends” and are re writing characters like Thrawn. It happened to SW! It can happen to 40K…
Death Vader a woman isn't even the worst. What if they made Death Vader Live Vader? Or even Sith Lives Vader? Imagine that.
Have you been eating washing machine detergent? Who the fuck is Death Vader?
The comment they were responding to said “Death Vader.”
For real? Its contagious.
Becuase unlike darth vader the custodes are a group of people, who are more interesting when you can tell different stories with them? Because their gender is not a central part of their lore presence unlike Vader and Luke? Because the lore has always been changed like this in 10 thousand different instances and is part of how the universe is written?
Do you think female space marines are a good idea? I think most of people aren't as bothered by this specific change as they are by what the change represents or means for the future of the setting. I think a lot of political disagreements over concrete issues are really about abstract ones. For my part I think female custodes are sensible from a lore perspective in a way that female space marines are absolutely not. From a storytelling perspective I think that the presence of single gender factions perhaps paradoxically bring a greater diversity to storytelling possibilities.
I would ignore it, like all the other things in life that I don't particularly like. It's quite easy you should try it. That is truly what hurts them the most, indifference.
Impossible. It's eroding our hobby. Ignoring it is like ignoring a fire. We need to fight this. It's about winning hearts and minds now.
Dawg, nothing is being eroded. The status quo hasn’t changed at all lmao.
Eroding how? If you ignore it what does it do to you? How does it change anything at all?
Oh yes, because you see, I'm not the kind of guy who throws money at expensive toys. I mill through the books, and have done for years. I'm a lorebeard. See, to lose yourself novel by novel to the fantasy is a wonderful thing... until the publicly traded company mass producing the new lore decides at the behest of its brain-parasites, the shareholders, to scrap lore that's been a solid and reliable anchor for literal decades. Its like you walk into your living room and one of the members of your family has changed skin colour and gender and noone seems to notice but you. Sure, you'd love your mum whatever her skin colour was but it's an intolerable inconsistency; a discord between what you know and what you're being shown. In reality a situation like that would have a *watsonian explanation*, which would wrap everything up nicely and give closure. Knowing it could only be watsonian gives reassurance that there is a satisfying explanation, whose certain existence is itself satisfying. But when you know that dissonance between what you know and what you see could only be doylist, the fourth wall is relentlessly broken **every** time you see your new Asian mum's face. In other words, it breaks immersion in the lore beyond repair when consistency is too badly abused. Bad enough when a dozen authors use 'unreliable narrator' as a cop-out for fucking EVERYTHING rather than just put the work in to be a bit consistent, but then you have straight-up 'and the last four decades were all a dreeeeeaaaaam!' bullshit that immersion in the setting simply can't survive. That's not even getting into the argument to be made for male fantasies being bulldozed and homogenised because women are allowed to have female-only spaces but the far-left won't tolerate male-only spaces.
I’m not sure if this is a parody or not.
Good-faith arguments are wasted on things like you. You make it difficult for other, more reasonable people than yourself who hold similar views to yourself to come and discuss and debate civily with us, because you flame and shittalk and foster the belief that the next of your kind to address us will be as hostile and malicious as the last. In short, you're giving your own people a bad name and setting your own cause back by years with your childish heckling.
You flamed yourself my dude. I don’t have a cause I have a hobby. I literally already said I don’t invest my happiness in the decisions of games workshop, or Reddit for that matter. You should try it.
Nah. You proved me right again.
Ok! Have a nice day!
To be fair, a female Darth Vader would be bad ass. Literally.
None of those are the same thing as "Hey some custodes are women now" and Luke was adopted by Owen Lars????
No, a better example would be if they took a trans character and had them go back to being cis and saying , 'yeah that was just me during a very confused period of my life, I was all messed up' or a popular female character being turned into a dude. They'd be burning storefronts by nightfall. How about we do a reverse Velma and take black characters people grew up with like Gerald from Hey Arnold, Vince from Recess or Frozone from The Incredibles and make 'em white? Hell, that wouldn't even be close. Velma had been around SIXTY YEARS when they pulled that shit, and even longer for the butchery that was The Rings of Power. Those black characters are only a few years old.
Comparing the most iconic villain of all time to Custodes lmao
Because they are. Im 100% going to get downvoted here but yall are unhinged lol. Vast majority of you dont even play or paint the models anyways its all just rage farming. Femme custodes are going to be badass models and really thats all i care and expect from GW. Youre not forced to put the femme custodes on the board and if they have good rules, just proxy like every other normal person. The only reason why they didnt make femme models before literally came down to economics. It would cost double the amount to produce two versions of the same sprue if one was femme and the other was male. Now the technology to make models and the crowd around the game is significantly bigger and they can now be more inclusive. If youre going to tie your dick in a knot then feel free. I for one am excited about the new models. Sisters of Battle is byfar the most interesting human faction by their looks alone and im hoping that the custodes will get a nice new makeover alongside the introduction of femme custodes.
See the most bizarre thing about this comment and what sounds most true “badass models and really that’s all I care and expect from GW.” If that was true at scale then we simple wouldn’t have GW. They could never charge as much as they do even with better quality. The reason they are able to charge so much is because the lore. I am not buying a badass model of a big dude. I am buying Horus the war master. The man burned half the imperium in 7 years in an epic galaxy spanning civil war. The lore is a critical part is the success of GW and if I can not speak to that there are dozen of YouTubers and hundreds of books which will. Also not this will have worth to your ears but I am did not follow you to your own subreddit and I did not make arguments which have nothing to do with the context of conversation. I do believe you would fit the definition of unhinged
Theyre able to charge as much as they do because they have the best models and have cornered the very niche market. The lore helps them sell models yes, but their models have been going up, regardless of the quality of their lore.
lore was always got weird changes, its just another one little lore bit that would be forgot, like the fact that iron hands' power armour can function without space marine itself, or machine spirit of titan receive a PTSD
It's not small. Its taking away a huge part of the custodes appeal. People got attached to them because they were a male-specific fantasy, and GW had time to change that before it was too late. Instead they waited until people had spent decades loving it as it was. It was too late to change it. It's the difference between someone adopting you at 6 months old and your parents putting you up for adoption at 35.
Well custodes aren't exactly showed as specifically male thing, entire idea of Custodes, is being a next step of evolution not a bio weapon with daddy issues
Wrong. Check this page out https://thatparkplace.com/warhammer-40k-novelist-james-swallow-confirms-he-included-gender-transition-propaganda-into-his-iron-bone-story/ There's an excerpt from a 1987 rogue trader stating custodes are all men in addition to other codex entries in 2017 and 2018 and a slew of other lore examples I've seen. Moderation should open this sub for image comments for a while. Then loads of screengrabs would do the rounds and people would stop this misinformed denial and misinformation spreading.
Funny how people call it a change when nobody ever said that custodes were only men. Hence the comparison really doesn't fit.
It was stated repeatedly that they're only men, in detail. You're just ignoring what you don't want to acknowledge.
nah but nice try though.
https://thatparkplace.com/warhammer-40k-novelist-james-swallow-confirms-he-included-gender-transition-propaganda-into-his-iron-bone-story/ There's a 1987 reference to it from Rogue Trader on this page, two Codex entries from 2017 and 2018 and a slew of others, so 'nice try' bitch. History is on **our** side, Marge.
“Brotherhood of demigods”
Brotherhood is not necessarily a gendered term despite the root word. For a fun example look at fallouts "Brotherhood" of Steel. You can learn more silliness in my Ted talk, "The English language is stupid and held together mostly by spite."
as the other user already mentioned is brotherhood not used for exclusively male groups but also mixed groups (havent seen it used for all female groups but that's not important here).
No logic is welcome here. This post is for grown men who are annoyed about a small change that doesn’t affect the game at all. I’ll die on the downvoted hill with you
Debate is welcome here, and the proof is that even your worthless, inflammatory shittalking doesn't get removed nor do you get banned. You're welcome to discuss with people here and instead find the only person you can to have a circlejerk with within this sub. Meanwhile if we said any mild thing in sigmarxis or grimdank you people would freeze, stop breathing till you turn blue and mash the ban button till you have to replace your mouse. The ham-fisted retcon has enormous implications and issues that effect fans of the faction and the setting. If it doesn't impact you it's only because you're not a fan of the setting we had and just want it altered before you'll enjoy it. See here for details: https://www.reddit.com/r/HorusGalaxy/comments/1d1mqh7/comment/l5xiifd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Tbh this is partially the reason why I even look at this worthless sub; to see grown people annoyed because people are respecting and accepting of others.
You come in here for the same reasons you bluehairs hang out in crysubs like facepalm, justunsubbed and nahfuckthatopwasright: because you're miserable with your lives and addicted to getting pissy, so you keep coming back to places that make you butthurt so can get into a good lather again. People who're bitter often just need excuses to complain and will gravitate to places and people that give them fuel to keep bitching. People here have good reason for their qualms: our decades-old hobby is being butchered by suits to attract fresh money and we're being brigaded by butthurt wokies who'd gaslit the reddit WH fanbase that extreme-leftist views are the norm and anything outside of that and you must be a nazi bigot misogynist. We have good reason to be here in civil discussion. You have no such justification. You are entirely here out of intolerance for moderate, centrist opinions backed by logic. You are in the wrong, and only the poisonous echo chamber that's 1984'd you has deluded you otherwise.
The projection here is strong. I am rather happy with my life and hobby. I am not getting pissed while reading the absolute intolerant garbage takes on here. You say "our" hobby but just as it is your hobby, it is mine. I am not even going to comment on the last paragraph as it is just hateful, filled with "us vs them" rhethoric and vilifying anyone outside your point of view. I am sorry you have a problem with people being tolerant, open and accepting, and want to change their IP to fit more modern sentiment .
If you were really here to do more than spew garbage you'd have read a few posts and seen we're not like that here. Oh aye, I'll reply to the odd shitetalker by telling them how backwards and hateful they are, but our MO is frank and constructive discussion even with intolerant rat-dicks such as yourself. We'd rather not ban people for breathing wrong like you do in your subs because we have reasoning on our side. No, you ARE just here out of addiction to bitterness-fuel and you've failed to assuage that assertion. Go ahead and flip back through my comments for proof. I'm prone to going into detailed explanations of our stances and motives for our causes in good faith even suspecting strongly (and rightly) that my counterpart interlocutor is a bad actor just waiting to start what you have: jeering and putting words and agendas in our mouths. I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt where I can, even if it's exhausting. You are not WH fans, we are. We love it for what it is and you only want it contingent on it changing. You are not tolerant. You are just a different kind of intolerance. You are part of the single most intolerant group in modern society. We on the other hand don't censor or ban except to prevent Reddit from shutting the sub down. We are an open forum of political moderates, not the 'right-wing chudfest' you people delude yourselves we are.
>you'd have read a few posts I have and have seen people be exactly that. Miserable, discontent and pissed off about GW's lore. >You are not WH fans, we are. Ah, the no true scotsman fallacy. >You are not tolerant. Please look up the paradox of tolerance. >You are part of the single most intolerant group in modern society Who would that be? What do you even know about me..? >We are an open forum of political moderates Oh please, there is nothing to back this up. Furthermore, assuming that any group of people is a political monolith is an easy way to be just wrong. However, if we say that "accepting LGBTQ people" is a left-wing point, we can conclude that "not accepting LGBTQ people" would be a right-wing point which is something I have seen over and over in this sub (but that is, obviously, besides the point).
We're quite justifiably upset over our hobby being demolished y suits and tourists. You people have no justification, just bile. It's not the no true scottsman fallacy; no goalposts have been moved, and there is a valid difference between lovers of the franchise and politically motivated tourists who'll only enjoy it contingent on it conforming and sanitising itself for their politics. I've heard your crap about the paradox, but it's used by wokies to attack anything you hate by accusing others of intolerance to justify your own intolerance. Please look up 'crybully'. And yes, there's plenty to back it up. This whole sub is evidence of how this sub behaves, but you people stamp in shittalking, discarding reasonable stances and instead elect to put arguments in people's mouths so you can feel superior when you attack them. Most people here don't give a shit if GW stuffs a gay into a book provided they do the WORK to make the character interesting, but we rightly have a problem with crowbarred-in tokenism. Also, no we don't have to be pro LGBT to not be right wing. LGBT is a political movement that **pretends** to be the same thing as gay/trans rights etc in the same way MAGA purports to be the same thing as pro-freedom and pro-traditionalism. Political cunts forming groups always try to 'claim' virtues as an identity particular to them. We are largely centrist here. No matter how much you want us to be bigots and nazis, that's just cope you tell yourself so you intolerant far-left cunts can come brigading us for not wanting huge retcons, the destruction of male-centric factions and the franchise being sold by Blackrock to tourists for DEI money.
>You people Again, it is my hobby as well. >politically motivated tourists And here you call me a tourist while I have been enjoying the hobby for a long time. >but it's used by wokies to attack anything you hate I am sorry what? This paradox is almost 80 years old, what are you even talking about. >so you intolerant far-left cunts can come I am sorry but resorting to namecalling already defeats you and I am certainly not far left.
The username alone lacks so much self awareness 😭
Nah, and you proved me right. I give a reasoned argument and you shittalk. You people are virtue signallers **made** of intolerance. Hypocrites.
Reasoned argument = you blue hairs 😂
And you just ignore the argument in favour of cherrypicking, typical of your kind. Something can be both reasonable snd insulting btw. Just because reality offends you doesn't mean it's not reasonable.
You’ve got more in common with the blue hairs than you think, you identify as something (logical and reasonable) that you’re in fact the opposite of. Your assumptions about me are hilarious btw.
If brownie points from political activists are more important to GW than their long time loyal customers, then fuck their bottom line. They've been absolutely gouging money out of us for decades, so it's time for payback, I'll be happy to see Games Workshop gone.
where do you download all those books?
I’ll DM you
Hi ! Could you DM me as well ?
Sure
I’d love a DM as welll. This looks like an awesome collection
Do you mind dming me too?
Sure
Me as well please. I’ll love you forever
If you can,can you send it to me too?
Me too please!
Can you do the same?
Hey can you DM me as well please?
Me as well please haha
I'd love a DM too. Thank you for your service to the community
Me too
Can i get a dm as well?
May I have a DM as well please....?
May I have a dm?
can you also Dm me?
Me too please?
Me too please
I would love a DM please
Yo, can a brothere get in on this?
if anyone can DM me too pls lol
Dm me too
Can I get in on this DM action?
Me to please f Gw
Could you dm me the link? Didnt want to overwhelm the first poster
Could you DM me next in the chain?
next please
One more right here please
I’ll take my ticket please.
Calling next
Me too please!
Feed me brother.
Is that middle part from my House of the Dragon meme? Nice 
Shamelessly stolen... and thank you very much
https://preview.redd.it/xrn386j22y2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=448e62f4915aae1633eaaa726af140366dba7c7c
i'm not even mad at retcon in itself as even if it pure lazyness it can bring great thing, its the additional salt that it wasn't done for the story but for a political message. If they retconed it to include pepsi in the lore and said space marines always drank a lot of pepsi, i would feel the exact same.
Oh so you can accept super soldiers and psykers but my BMW 350i with optional heated seating is just too far?
ok so by your logic a Lamborghini have its place in star wars since they already have space ship ?
did you really get the joke?
Seem like to, people are so dumb these day I can't tell anymore if someone is making a joke, trolling or just have an iq averaging at the room temp.
1. Gw is the laziest kid on the block. I was pirating their staff long before this and will still continue. 2. Why did you compare the eyistance of women to comerical brand like Pepsi which sole existance would be to sell more drinks? Like... you realize women aren't some corporate or organisation that will rule the world and are just a HALF OF THE DAMN WORLDS POPULATION.
It is you who didn't understood women are just a product for them, a checkbox that they hope will bring more money if checked. Otherwise they would not have force introduced them like this with custodes. You are speaking to people here that like to collect the sisters of battle because they are one of the most badass group in warhammer. We aren't the one disrespecting women here we just do not blindly drink bullshit.
We commit a bit of Rogue Trading, as a treat.
Don't forget to seed!
What is seed?
Formerly suck
If its not canon its not stealing right? Time to gaslight back.
This
These people are constantly trying to rewrite history. Fiction doesn’t stand a chance
This is some woke retroactive Bene Gesserit shit
You bigot! Just because in the first 300 books (holy shit) female custodies have never been mentioned doesn’t mean something’s wrong with them! Their perfectly fine! *opens third blue eye*
Star Wars after Disney’s “legends” BS…
Will these work on kindle? If so please hook a brother up.
Usually yea, if they are pdf at least. I got myself infinite and the divine pfd on my kindle
.june is pride month, pander month of corpas .chances of rainbow alphabet retcon multiplying
 There have always been Femstodes
Whenever I see the amount of 40k novels people read I think man, many people haven't read this many novels period. Like you could have read all the sci-fi classics in the time you took you read 30,000 pages of young-adult tier dross.
I have read as many sci-fi classics as I can get my hands on. All the foundations series. Ring world series. One of my favourites was the Hyperion series. Heinlein is probably my favourite author over all. New stuff like the Expanse series was good. I have full shelves and a stack standing beside them. I read 40k as fun stuff when I'm taking a break from the serious stuff and there is nothing at all wrong with that.
Agreed. 👌👌
Nah, some W40k books are high quality, don't underestimate them
What 40K books do you consider to be high quality? I’ve enjoyed the carrion throne series and would like some recommendations.
Night Lords or Eisenhorn
I've definitely had fun reading some of them. The fight between Big E and Horus was a fantastic read. No spoilers if you haven't read it, but it's great how it was done on so many levels
Hey, where can i download these?
Are these the audio books? Edit: Theyre not, too small in size. Derp
Honestly the best way they should’ve done was that they allowed women during the heresy due the war in the web way casualty rates
No, that doesn't work. If recruits on Terra were so hard to come by, they'd have just recruited off-worlders.
They do recruit off worlders.
The logical reason is that the Emperor couldn't make Custodes at that time as he was chair-stuck. The emperor should have damn rethink his stance on women goldies whem half of his empire turned traitor. Anyoff-worlder or even terran was thrown into the meatgrinder to slow down Horus. And the 10,000 are being slaughtered in the webway. Any woman(non-blank) here and there would be a welcomed help for the exhausted custodes.
The Custodes aren't cannon fodder; you can't churn them out just to fill the ranks. Each one is hand-made and "bespoke". I'm actually not convinced many, if any, new Custodes were made between the start of the Webway War and the end of the Horus Heresy. As to the Emperor rethinking female Custodes... why would he? You haven't made a case for why he'd change his mind. That's not "logical".
And the biggest thing is that there is more recruits and seeing how long it takes for a single custodes, and their kill rates, transition to eyes of the emperor and such it would be more logical for the emperor to have both as it helps to keep custodians up, especially after the heresy and now with the rift
Or after the Khorne Daemon invasion of terra before Guilleman arrived. Iirc they lost a lot of Custodes during that and not long after they started leaving terra in force. Seems like a good time to expand recruitment.
Literally that’s all they had to do, and it would’ve totally helped the whole shitshow that happened
[удалено]
Removed for violating Rule 4: No Illegal Content. No heretical deeds permitted: no doxxing, impersonation, or explicit harassment against fellow Imperium citizens. "If you go looking for trouble, you're sure to find it." -Gilbran Quail
I get what you're saying but why the beast war books? Being free wouldn't be enough reason to experience that cadaver fire
TBF, Aaron Dembski-Bowden did say that he always wanted Female Custodians, and most of the writers wanted it. Then an exec at GW shut it down. So he wrote the first heratic in a way that allowed him to add them to the cannon later. And the rest of the writes avoided adding any lore that would prevent them from doing it.
That statement by them was utterly fucking stupid and I'm saying that as someone that is left leaning. There are so many ways that you could make female custodes (or I dont know, just give the already female dominated groups that have existed for a long time a bit of love?) that, yes, will still annoy people, but it would be at least 200 times less disrespectful to the existing fanbase than a comment like "they have always been there actually" And I know someone will likely say "no, no girls at all" so let me just give you my vision on what female custodes would be so I dont get misunderstood. Male or female, it should not matter, they are custodes, the best of the best of mankind, the protectors and caretakers of the emperor and the biggest bad-asses in the universe. When fully armoured up, you should'nt be able to tell the difference between an originally female or male custodes, sex or gender dont matter, they are custodes. When not wearing a helmet, a female custodes would not be some model, they look like a grizzled, roided up, mega-badass and they conduct themselves like it too, just like the men because femininity or masculinity doesn't matter to them, the only thing that matters is can I kill all the unholy bullshit and how fast can I do it. Anyhow if they go that path (and lets be honest, they likely will), thats how I hope they handle it, it should'nt be a big point that is super important, because all that matters is that they are the Emperor s finest and they are here to bring some of the Emperors mercy to those that need it.
Is there a particular reason people here don‘t like that they changed the lore regarding female custodians or is it just because they don‘t like contradictory lore?
Probably a bit of a few kinds of rage. You got your practical it’s not in the lore folks. You got your prejudice folks, and your anti pandering to a political movement folks. The prejudice People can get bent. The lore gatekeepers have a solid argument, but at the end of the day they have a choice to accept the changes in their mind or not and continue living life. Now the anti political group is a whole thing I don’t wanna break down before lunch lol. I tend to lean towards not wanting everything in any entertainment medium to try and include every kinda person, otherwise it all becomes diluted. If someone or a group wants more things to enjoy, then they should start creating new things and we would have more original work then co-opted established franchises. Not changing lore to fit the “times” is not bigotry. Nor is it disallowing anyone from joining the experience. It simply keeps the world and original vision cohesive with less continuity errors, and that is not a bad thing. edit: removed a word imputed twice.
Thank you for the explanation. I think I understand it better now. I agree that prejudice people can get bent. I tend to think that there‘s nothing wrong with pandering to a particular crowd or more diversity is bad, as long as it makes sense in the story. If Disney would say, that the clone troopers in Star Wars had females soldiers, they would have to give a good-ass reason, how thats possible but as for the custodians, I don‘t see how it‘s impossible or even improbable that there had been female custodians. In a franchise like WH where a big part is the cool looking miniatures and awesome designs, I think a bit of diversity is definitively a good thing.
It's obvious that the change was implemented for IRL political reasons and not because it makes the setting better inherently. The way it was done was lazy, and makes it clear GW doesn't put any stock in their established canon which means there's no reason to care about any of it. It further contributes to the sidelining of actually interesting female factions like the sisters of silence. It doesn't bring more women into the hobby, so even claims about representation fall flat.
Sooo you used to buy them, and now you're mad about the middle line and you decided to pirate the rest of the novels? Not criticising, just trying to understand.
Okay, look, GW have always been doing retcons and lore changes for 30+ years, and I have never heard a thing about that but now that GW tries to make things more inclusive/ more welcoming then you start complaining?!?. You're not angry that GW is retconing. You're angry because they put women in 40k. If you're going to complain about something, then at least be honest and just say you're sexist
like ppl werent angry when they made primaris marines?
The difference is that primaris marines have an actual impact on the story/lore, but custodians with tits doesn't matter in the slightest, and I haven't seen people be half as mad at the primaris marines as the female custodes
It can be true since there would be very small differences from male Custodes, so wouldn't be so noticeable. Hate GW because of that is just stupid, they didn't remove male Custodes after all, one confirmed femstodes wouldn't ruin setting (tweet is not canon, since even some books are not considered canon)
The "this is not a big deal" crowd is so painfully low-end gaslighting that it is more funny than annoying.
People tie themselves up into knots to justify stealing. You're stealing from GW, that's about it. GW not being serious about their lore, does not justify being a thief. Edit: Just ask yourselves, does GW's treatment of the lore justify you walking into a GW store and taking the books off the shelf and walking out? Because downloading the book is basically just that. Edit: I'd just state for the record that I seem to have been blocked by Live-D8 by pointing out that piracy is breaking the law.
If they are going to trash the lore then it has no intrinsic value. So yes, it’s justifiable to read it without paying imo. And it’s not like all the main plot points aren’t already summarised on the wikis anyway. Now whether or not this constitutes stealing; no it is not the same as taking a book from the shelves: - GW must pay to replace the stolen book and transport it back to the store; this does not occur with illegal downloads - illegal downloads do not deprive the original owner of the item - many people download books, games and videos etc. that they had no intention of paying for. If they couldn’t get it for free then they would just go without. So in most cases it’s a victimless crime Finally even if it is stealing, GW deserve to be punished for invalidating lore that people have already paid for. What is the point in dutifully buying books if GW will just undo it with a shitty social media post. It’s reminiscent of when Disney bought Star Wars and decided all the books were non-canon; despite people spending hundreds of pounds and thousands of hours consuming them.
>no intrinsic value Just because you think something has no intrinsic value, stealing is ok? Come on now. Why stop at GW's books then? Just steal their entire shop since it has no intrinsic value. >illegal downloads I find it bizarre that you can rightly recognize that this is an illegal download, but still argue that it is not stealing. Piracy is copyright theft. The law recognizes this. Western democracies with the rule of law all recognize this, which is why we mock cheap China knock offs of western brands. >many people download books, games and videos etc. that they had no intention of paying for. If they couldn’t get it for free then they would just go without. So in most cases it’s a victimless crime The rights holder loses money that should have been paid. The rights holder is the vicitim. It's that simple. >Finally even if it is stealing, GW deserve to be punished for invalidating lore that people have already paid for. What is the point in dutifully buying books if GW will just undo it with a shitty social media post. You can punish GW by just... not buying their books. See, you don't need to be a thief.
Well I can see there’s no arguing with stupid; you literally cannot tell the difference between raiding a physical store vs making a digital copy of something that you had no intention of buying anyway.
"yOu WoUlDn'T dOwNlOaD a CaR!!!!"
Yes I would.
>Piracy is copyright theft. The law recognizes this. No, it's a violation. Not theft. The law does not recognize copyright violations as theft.
you never had a parking ticket? never speeded? never jay walked? most people on this world have broken some laws in their life, and thats fucking ok. why do you care at all? in the end, GW doesn't get money.
Yes. It does
You went from "I would never condone this" to now saying that because you don't like GW's lore, you can just break the law.
Oh no! You caught me! Obviously I said it sarcastically you absolute figit spinner
LOL what's obviously sarcastic then? "yes. it does" or "I would never condone this"
Wow are you dumb 😂
See, Rule 1. *Yet also heed this, engaging in debate or dissent does not signify disrespect towards you. Nor shall such clashes be deemed heretical, for in this realm of unrestrained discourse, we trust every citizen to possess the fortitude to endure the onslaught of opposing viewpoints.* *"Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." -Imperial Guard Tactical Manual*
Maybe people, who spend thousands of dollars, wouldn't be taking from them if they listened to them. Personally, I'm going the 3D printed route until they do listen, that's $5k-$10k a year gone that my family spends. They want this to stop? Listen to the fans who keep them afloat monetarily.
You can achieve that without piracy. Just stop buying. Whether you 3D print or not doesn't change the message to GW, it's lost revenue either way.
I want to keep collecting and playing, so I'll print my own minis, download the codexes, buy second hand. I'll not punish myself for their errors. Additionally, I've offered all of the players at my three local FLGS free printed minis, not a one of them is happy with the changes either. So GW can keep stacking up the lost revenue.
I hate to break it to you, but FLGS depend on official GW sales to keep their lights going. They can get by with some non-GW accessory sales, but the main profit items are GW minis. This is the reason why some FLGS just ban 3D prints or have rules about how many 3D prints you can play in the store. Even if your FLGS is totally cool with 3D prints, you playing the game there is still helping the GW economy. A new curious player seeing you play, is going to buy GW plastic. They have no ability to 3D print, and no one is going to 3D print a 2000 point army for them.
Lol. You obviously haven't been to my three FLGS, they make money off of other products (Magic, Bolt Action, etc) and have cut down on their GW stock without missing a stride. Two of now them have 3D printers and and are offering prints for sale. Keep trying though!
Lol. If your FLGS is 3D printing GW stuff for sale then they are just breaking the law in a more flagrant way since they are doing it for profit. Like I said, people are tying themselves into knots to justify breaking the law. Besides - **Even if your FLGS is totally cool with 3D prints, you playing the game there is still helping the GW economy. A new curious player seeing you play, is going to buy GW plastic. They have no ability to 3D print, and no one is going to 3D print a 2000 point army for them.**
WHAT?!? Oh no, they're probably completely unaware of that!!! I'm sure they'll be shocked to hear this!! LMFAO. They don't care. Maybe don't bite the hands that feed? Edit: they're just making the printers available, what we print is supplied by the patron with the files they bring in on the flash drive. Is it skirting the fine line? Absolutely.
First you said two of the FLGS are offering prints for sale. Now you say that the print is supplied by the patron with the files. So which is it lol. And does any of this really make a difference the the main discussion? The whole thing is still just breaking the law. Either the FLGS is breaking the law, or the patron is breaking the law, or both. From GW's perspective, it's loss revenue, the same thing as a person who is boycotting GW by not buying and not printing. Meanwhile your FLGS is just a IRL advertisement for GW every time a new person walks into the store and sees people playing 40k
They're offering the service of the printers, my bad for the confusion. I'll note to be very specific when speaking with you in the future, it's not a problem as I'm used to doing so with my less intelligent employees already. We don't care. Did you not get that either? Lmao. They can loose revenue and we can still get our minis and books, just not from them.
It's copyright violation, not theft.
And what's the substantive different you are trying to highlight? It's a form of property ownership. Taking from the IP owner is a property crime and/or actionable in a civil claim. Same framework for physical theft.
Different laws, different definitions, different punishments. If you go to court and try to build your case on "theft", you will lose, since you're prosecuting for a crime that didn't happen. >It's a form of property ownership. But nobody *took* the property. They *copied* it which is *copyright*, not theft.
Yeah but I'm not going to court or using the legal definition of theft. Piracy is the theft of IP. Stealing an intangible thing is different from stealing a physical thing. But both acts are illegal under the same broader principle which is property rights. If you really want to conceptualize the issue as "taking", the pirate is taking the profits that the IP owner would ordinarily get from the sale of the book.
>Piracy is the theft of IP. [Stop lying.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piracy) Just because *you* think it's theft doesn't turn it into theft. >the pirate is taking the profits that the IP owner would ordinarily get from the sale of the book. It sounds like you work for a publisher. A pirated copy is not the same as loss of sale, as you cannot prove that the pirate would have bought the item if he/she couldn't pirate it. You're talking about things you clearly don't understand, and just apply your feelings instead of actual logic.
You *do* realize that my main point wouldn't change at all even if I completely agreed with you? "People tie themselves up into knots to justify breaking the law. You're committing an illegal act, that's about it. GW not being serious about their lore, does not justify breaking the law" >[Stop lying.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/piracy) Just because *you* think it's theft doesn't turn it into theft. Really a dictionary definition? I've explained to you why I am using the term theft. Here is a [law firm](https://www.coxwelllaw.com/criminal-defense/computer-crime/piracy/#:~:text=Although%20at%20first%20glance%2C%20piracy,paying%20for%20it%2C%20it's%20illegal) saying piracy is theft. Now I can understand that this law firm is using "theft" in the more general sense of piracy interfering with a property's owner rights. I don't get why you are trying to pin me to a dictionary or legal definitions when I am using the word generally. >A pirated copy is not the same as loss of sale, as you cannot prove that the pirate would have bought the item if he/she couldn't pirate it. A pirate copy is a copy that should have been paid for. That's a dollar value that should have been paid to the company. If the pirate would not have bought it if they could not pirate it, then in the no-piracy scenario, the company suffers no loss because no one is enjoy their IP without paying for it.
I give your credit with your painting skills but your opinion about this topic shows you are on the wrong side.
It's the "wrong side" to tell people they should not break the law?
Mind your own business.
You replied to me. If you don't like my reply, then you can mind your own business.
Nah man, if you don't mind your own business so I wouldn't, allbwhat you bring here is just negatively opinions
Stuff is posted on reddit for people to reply. I am replying. You have come on here to reply to me, so I reply to you. Suddenly pulling out "mind your own business" is extremely bizarre on your part. I'm not bringing negative opinions. I'm bringing the reality of what everyone is doing. You are breaking the law when you pirate stuff. Depending on the country you are in, this can be a criminal offence. The best part is that this reality applies regardless on whatever is your view concerning GW's DEI policies. Piracy is illegal. It's illegal if you are pirating "woke LGBT trash", it's illegal if you are pirating conservative media.
You bring negative opinions here, with your bullshit, you think you have any opinion posting you this is illegal pirating is illegal all this all what you bring is a reason more why people like you aren't welcome here all you do is gaslight, of course I said mind your own business like you should do, Im sorry if I didn't make it clear in the first place but all what you bring is negative like all this woke bullshit, nothing good came from it and you are one more example why people are against it. Happy with this? You and your opinion here makes looks other's of you bad. But what can I tell when you don't even get that mind your own business.
Brother, a single box of Marine Devastators can buy me and my mom a week of groceries. Call me a Deathskull boi cause imma yoink anything I can for free.
If you can't afford something don't buy it lol. Last I checked you don't need plastic minis to stay alive. "I can't afford this luxury, so that justifies me stealing it"
Yes.
Found the corpo boot licker. https://preview.redd.it/jfshevioly2d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4403a1018725e0ba0e4f3fe2428a7dac4d2a885a
Yes
Um, actually I just tweeted that I've always owned these books. Which makes it true by their own metrics.
Piracy is breaking the law, its absolutely true. Does not mean it is evil. Also you're making a false equivalency. When you steal physical goods the people charged with managing those goods get punished, when you steal digital goods the only thing you're doing is not paying the seller. You haven't taken money from them, you've just made sure they cannot make money from you, digital goods are fungible. GW could make a million digital copies of the same book in an hour and store it on a 2 TB Hard drive.
Are you going to argue that piracy is morally justified when you don't like the IP rights holder? Come now. Sure, theft can be morally justified in some narrow situations. A poor person stealing bread is not morally evil, they are driven by necessity. GW goods are luxuries that you don't need to stay alive. People pirating GW are motivated by purely selfish reasons of wanting the product without paying. Whether you want to use "evil" is up to you, but I think it's pretty clear that everyone advocating for piracy here are not acting in a moral manner. A person that pirates is using the product for free. That's money that should have gone to GW. If you are drawing some kind of distinction between "taking money from them" versus "making sure they cannot make money from you" does that really matter? It's still illegal, and not moral. And please, you can make sure that GW does not make money from you by just not buying their stuff. Piracy is entirely additional.
I'm not arguing that piracy is morally justified when you don't like the IP rights holder, I am arguing that piracy is morally justified when you are not stealing from people. Corporations are not people, they Claim legal personhood when it suits them but stop being people very quickly thereafter. I will steal as many digital products from them as I feel like and they can eat my ass, I do not care about their politics. I do not respect them regardless. EDIT: When corporations stop being an everything proof shield that the rich use to protect their privilege I will stop stealing videogames and movies from them.
This is somehow even worse reasoning. Companies are legal persons in just about every western democratic country with rule of law. You wishing otherwise isn't going to change this. Your point basically boils down to "I'm going to ignore the law because of my feelings".
Absolutely, fuck corporations.
~ typed on a device produced and bought from a corporation, over an internet network operated by a corporation, on a social media site owned by a corporation Corporations having legal personality and owning property are fundamental to pretty much all the conveniences of modern living that you currently enjoy. You can probably count with one hand the amount of times you fully actually transacted with a natural person. Yeah... fuck them... ?
Absolutely. I am under no obligation to fawn over the assholes who built my house and my phone. They didn't do it because they like me, they didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart, there is no moral agency behind the actions of the institutions who built this world of ours. Everything they do they do for their own self perpetuation. Everything I do I do for my own gratification and self actualisation. The only obligations I am under are those enforced upon me by the government. Who can and will send policemen to my house to drag me to prison when I do something they do not like. That said, stealing data online for personal use is essentially never prosecuted since the police have better things to do. So long as I'm not dumb enough to try and resell their property I can torrent as much legal software and media as I bloody want. Why in gods name would I ever pay for their stuff they're assholes anyway.
It always baffles me when people who lives in the 21rst century, who are using computers, don't even have a clue of what computers do... Copying a file is not a theft. The original file is still there, the owner still possess it, you just duplicated it. Copyrights laws were made to protects physical objects from counterfeit, most of them don't make sense in the digital age. There is also no known correlation between warez and ''piracy'' and loss of revenu from the company making those files. In fact there is arguably a loss of revenue from making anti-copy formats that will only cause problems to the people who are not the so called ''pirates''. As a side note, those copyright laws that try (because nobody is actually enforcing these laws unless you are making a business out of your copies) also conflicts with the laws that allows me to use my property the way I see fit.
Man you guys are a bunch of fucking snowflakes
Says the guy who came here to make this comment
You can always just not look at this subreddit. You can literally go touch grass but instead you're here.