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Have been for ages. Lots of terrible quality too-small conversions of larger houses.
It still drives me crazy that I can't filter by square metreage on any of the big property sites.
Such a great idea. My Rightmove click pattern is always Floor plan first to check sqm. The crazy fisheye lenses they use in the photos utterly distorts the image so this is the only way to find out the scale/size of the rooms.
And the British obsession with bedrooms nearly always means ever tinier rooms....so this metric is meaningless
The British obsession with bedrooms! I'm looking for a 1 bed flat (no kids, poor) but I looked up 2 and 3 bed flats in our area out of curiosity.
The 2 beds are just 1 beds with no living room. The 3 beds are just 1 beds with no living room and no space for a dining table. The sq footage differs very little. It's like cutting a 6 slice pizza into 12 slices and calling it a large.
I'd rather live in a big studio than the same size space cut into 5 cramped rooms
My son looked at 2 bed new build a few months ago
The master bedroom was big with an ensuite
The second bedroom you couldn’t fit a single bed and a wardrobe / small bed side drawers
I told the women it was really a one bed with aspirations 😂
She agreed that most people use the second room
as either a office or wardrobe
A lot of garages that come with new builds are noted as for "seasonal storage". Translated = don't you dare think you can put anything much bigger than a Smart car in here.
> The British obsession with bedrooms!
It seems to have got into people's heads that more bedrooms = higher price, which is such a travesty. I was looking at a house a few months ago that I adored. It was pretty tiny, something like a 4B/2BR at 1500 sqft, and when you looked at the bedrooms they were absolutely miniscule. The very first thing I thought was how all the problems would be solved by taking that entire second floor living space, converting it into two normal-sized bedrooms and a small home office, but the value of the house would absolutely plummet as a result. Such a shame
Yeah it's insane. The thing with new builds now seems to be extra bathrooms too. I keep seeing horrible new build layouts where there's barely any living space in a 2 bed flat but there are two bathrooms. Ah yes, I'll just host dinner in one of my two showers
"You've heard of sh-t, shower and shave, now imagine the convenience of doing all three in arm's reach of your ~~microwave~~ ultra-modern electromagnetic oven"
> It was pretty tiny, something like a 4B/2BR at 1500 sqft
That is unfortunately about an average to even slightly above average four-bed ([source](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725085/Floor_Space_in_English_Homes_main_report.pdf)).
But yes, I certainly agree. We've bought a house with an extra bedroom we don't need because you need to if you want more space, even though it's not optimally configured.
Rightmove have attempted to build that sort of feature before, apparently so many of the large estate agents threatened to pull out that it was a non-starter
I'm shocked that Estate Agents would be against introducing more transparency and honest into the marketing of the properties they are selling. Shocked I tell you!!
And "not an auction". The amount of good looking properties I saw but were auction or cash only, but didn't state it properly until you actually enquired about it...
People forget that the housing market isn't rational. As if we need the reminder after the last decade.
Anything decent is usually held by owner occupiers who won't let the property go for much less than it's peak value because they're so heavily invested (usually the house is most of their net worth). Like what we saw after the Brexit vote when buyers held off, sellers responded by withdrawing from the market as well to wait for a better time to sell. They couldn't care less about affordability or if the market is suggesting they need to cut prices to shift their property. If they don't need to sell then they just won't participate in the "free market".
As you say, those seeing discounts and sitting in the market are typically BTL landlords or probates where the owners are selling to just realise their profit. A BTL landlord that bought the house for a fraction more than a decade ago doesn't care if he makes £20k less on a property if he's still making £100k+ profit regardless. Likewise, in a probate the new owners are taking the entire sale in cash. They don't care if they drop it 5 or 10%. But these houses are typically undesirable for owner occupiers due to either location or condition.
>If they don't need to sell then they just won't participate in the "free market".
They are the market makers..........not selling their house doesn't mean they aren't "participating", they are still very much so participating and controlling the stock
All of the behaviour you described sounds super rational to me. It's how I would expect sellers to behave.
Until fixed rates get too much or we see job losses I wouldn't expect lots to come on the market.
If we see both at the same time, or a recession after a couple of years of high rates meaning lots of homeowners fixed at high repayments I would expect a lot of supply to appear.
The slide comes when the number of people who "absolutely have to move" increases. Either through very sustained high IR, or by increases in those losing their jobs.
If you were predicting big slides you'd probably point to a looming recession.
If companies go under and unemployment climbs then it will increase the number of people who can't afford to stay put and are forced to downsize.
Good I hope prices keep rising so you can't afford a house. People like you are more entitled than the average fool.
Let me point out one simple fact for your dim-witted mind.
House Prices Crash, Job Recession Comes, even in your line of work you're going to get laid off.
Then you can't get a mortgage either for what you can now.
You STILL won't be able to afford a more expensive house than you can now.
GOOD LUCK WISHING AND HOPING!
I’ll be fine either way , I have a lucrative career. I worry more for my younger brother that got charged 9 fucking grand a year to go uni at a 8% interest rate , living in a room in a converted garage for a thousand pounds a fucking month . This system must fall . And the conditions are right only when people that would usually become the elite are stopped from doing so. Revolutions are literally never run by the actual working class , they’re too busy focusing on surviving .
Yep definitely noticed this
My seller is being a complete pain in the arse, so I’ve kept my eye on the market to see if anything else comes up that I like the look of/as backup. I can move my mortgage offer to another property so interest rates aren’t stopping me (only completion time, so I’d need no chain)
I’ve seen absolutely nothing in my price range that I even want to view in the last 2 months. Which is surprising as I thought house prices falling meant that more desirable properties would fall into my range..
They aren’t on nightmare level yet and I’ve heard stories about sellers who’re much worse, so maybe I’m being a bit harsh, but it has me worried they’re the sort of person to pull out any second
So far they:
Advertised the property as no chain
Saw the seller when we viewed who said the property was ‘no chain’ and they have family they can move in, but they are looking to downsize
Lied to us about their reduction dates (not realising the right move chrome extension lets you view the price history) and lied about another interested party with an offer better than our (didn’t admit this but we didn’t improve our offer and then ours was accepted). But this is standard negotiation scare tactics
Then after we’ve got our mortgage offer approved and are starting surveys, we get an email saying “the seller has now found a property they want to move into so this may add a little bit of time but there’s no chain as it’s vacant”. Bit annoying but I’m not a dick so I’m not going to kick off when somebody has a house to move into
After about 2 1/2 months they then decide to pull out of the house they’re purchasing and say “there’s another place we might put an offer in on this weekend”. So back to square one
At this point I kicked off a bit and said that our offer would be reduced if we were forced to keep paying rent for months whilst waiting about, and if our mortgage offer expires we’ll be reducing our offer so that our monthly mortgage repayments are the same under the new rate. And all of a sudden they have an offer accepted on a ‘vacant’ property that very evening (so I don’t believe a word of it)
And this is all after they had their estate agent nagging us every other day on what our position was for the first month after our viewing. Now they aren’t so keen on chatting with us. Checking on their position with this new ‘vacant property’ at the end of the week
You sellers sounds like someone who was trying to buy my house, they had an offer accepted on a property, but then wanted to buy ours at 15% below market rate told then no, then went away and said they would discuss with their partner never returned any calls from EA. Then we reduced the price by 5% and came back with an offer 12% lower (lower than their original offer) and were confused why we didn't take it. Then after thinking about it with their wife for 2 weeks made a better offer that we were thinking about but within 24 hours had pulled our their original property and made an offer on something else that had been accepted and were now no longer interested.
not being an ass but what if you look above your price range? Is there supply?
Unless you are all cash in an area with zero cash buyers your sinking on the same tide
Oh I do have above my price filtered for in searches. But I haven’t seen anything that I like the look of even if I could get it 10-15% below asking
There’s supply but the supply just seems to be a bit crap. Properties that need too much work doing or have at least one big downfall. When I started my search 6 months ago I would see something that ticked all the boxes now and then, and I viewed 15 houses in total from Feb-May.
But I’ve only seen 2 houses I would have considered viewing since June and both of them were already marked sold before my seller started playing games, so they went super quick
but are there are properties on the market t015% over your budget, that are going STC? I'm not being an ass I'm genuinly interested if your expectations are unrealistic or not
Yeah there are still properties selling which I like the look of but don’t tick all my boxes. There are also still a few I viewed back in April-May that still haven’t sold
I’d say my standards are high but not unrealistic (in one of the ‘nicer areas’ within a certain 10 mins radius, off road parking, 3+ bed semi/end terrace, decent sized living room, garden, no conservatory, doesn’t need major renovations. Nothing out of the ordinary which I feel I should have to compromise on for my budget).
Like I said I’ve already had an offer accepted somewhere (and for 5% under my max budget) that I really like, so I know there are houses out there within my budget. But I’m seeing less of them now than I saw 2-3 months ago, when I would’ve thought it would be the opposite situation with house prices falling
Prices aren't falling that much in most places. The average sale price may have fallen but that's largely due to people in expensive houses not moving much and a lot of sales are at the cheaper end of the market. There's fewer houses for sale and fewer people looking to buy, but in most areas potential purchasers are still outnumbering people putting up decent houses for sale so prices for houses in good condition will continue to rise.
Contrary to popular belief and other markets, when house prices go down it becomes even less possible to buy anything. The only way to buy anything is for prices to keep going up. This is why no matter what, the best time to buy a property was yesterday.
Looking in NW England and finding that a mix of decent houses and ones that need updating are coming on but overall, all are overpriced.
Ones that would clearly need a lot of work are on really highly priced and just sitting there for months. Decent houses are coming down but not shifting quickly unless on at a highly attractive price.
They aren't overpriced if people buy them, though. It seems to me that the properties are still selling, they're just less affordable to the wider market.
Yes, totally agree, for example, 4 bed detacheds - one on at £360k, sitting there for weeks and reducing over time, one came on last week at £270k and sold within 2 days. We didn't even get to go look at it because owner accepted the sale and said no more viewings. And because it was on for £270k I'm gonna guess it got asking price or over to secure the sale from the buyers side.
Edit: my original comment was more commenting on what houses are on the market for a long time, anything that sells usually has been reduced a lot over time or is like my example above.
Standard. This sub often seems to think the housing market should somehow be exempt from basic buying and selling principles and every house should be available for a tenner.
Hey! I'm totally open to hearing people's opinions on housing - I'm a FTB with limited knowledge of the market.
Apologies if my comments have been off the mark and if there is anything I can learn I'm open to doing so.
I was merely stating my observations and can assume that properties that have been on for more than 6 months are overpriced asking prices as they aren't shifting? Open to hearing if I'm getting this wrong or I'm off the mark.
Oh I didn't mean you, I meant down voting for stating the unfortunate obvious is common to this sub.
Yes houses still on the market for more than 6 months are possibly overpriced but there's other factors too. My experience of buying and selling in NW England is that *good* properties always get sold and often for over the asking price.
I have some magic beans for you then. People buying something does not give you an indication if the market is over or under priced. You can only determine if you payed a reasonable price when you sell something you buy or when all usefulness has been extracted.
Most houses for sale in my area are the ones where the owner has not done anything to the place in the last 40 years. They all start out expecting 2022 prices, but eventually they're all getting reduced and still not selling.
the ones that get left on the market are the ones nobody wants at the current prices. However, when a great house comes up for sale it's very quickly marked as SSTC by the weekend.
For example: 4 bed detached on edge of suburbs but a bit too close to the centre of town, double garage, executive estate built in the 90s, new kitchen £650k>£625k>£600k>£575k and still on the market
vs
small 3 bed detached with detached garage on 1/2acre 2 miles out of town, a bit dated but great views and privacy, £950k SSTC after 3 days.
Yep. Midland FTB, everything is either an ex rental that hasn’t been touched in 15 years or an elderly persons home. No cash to renovate a property, but don’t want to pay more than our rent for a house we don’t like either. Frustrating.
Not OP, but I come from Latvia, live in London and have a similar observation. If it's not a new build, then it's a dump moldy shit hole with zero insulation not suitable for human habitation. Why would anyone buy any house older than 20 years or so is beyond me...
State of the house is not equal build quality. I find old UK house has a pretty good build judging from how long it stand. Compare to new build u will be shock.
And if it's a new build, it'll likely be shoddy with small rooms and chances are, without a driveway. Much rather have an older house with larger rooms and often a driveway/garden. But agree with the general point here - housing in the UK is, on the whole, very poor
Hmm, new builds will fly away into the sky when the first shockwave hits, 1940-60 builds will stay grounded with some window and roof damage. When Putin drops one I mean….
Yeh, we're very snobby about new builds and flats when these tend to be far better quality (insulation, standards) than the victorian workers' terraces we idolise!
Old stuff that survived is always going to be better than new stuff, on the simple virtue that it was built well enough to last.
It's survivorship bias. There's plenty of utter wank terraced houses about, but they usually get flattened
I think it's been like this for a while now. I'm sure most people with nice houses who feel like moving are just staying put until things settle, even if they don't really want to stay in their current house. What you're seeing are the houses where people don't really have much choice but to sell.
A lot of people are extending rather than buying. There's a road of lovely detached houses not far from me and in the last few years about half have had extentions put on.
We had the same issue - very few desirable houses coming on, when they did they went in a couple of days. We ended up spending £60k or so less than our maximum budget for a house that was great structurally and in good conditions but it’s needs fully redecorating, new kitchen and bathroom. It’s not stylish but it’s practical and in a good location. I was a bit down about it - there’s only so much we can do and it’s never going to be the house of my dreams but we’ve been here a month and already really benefitting from the extra space, drive etc.
We had a couple of houses fall through and ended up buying a bit of a tip but which was very solid structurally and, 20ish months down the line, we've put a lot of work in to end with a pretty nice place.
That is what happens when house prices drop or there is uncertainty in the market. Many think it will be a FTB dream as houses will be cheaper. That isn't necessarily true as the quality of the stock decreases. Many people will be holding out until the market settles/recovers as people will be more inclined to buy.
Oh. And here I thought I was just being too nitpicky.
It's basically all houses that look like they're about to fall down or flats that want your firstborn as service charges.
Yeah, this is the issue with "house prices are dropping". A significant portion is that only cheaper houses are selling, not that houses are selling for less than they were before.
This is exactly what happens during a downturn. People just re-evaluate the need to move .
Housing stock becomes nothing but repossessions/probate/landlords selling up.
Desirable properties that are priced well are very few and far between and expect them to sell quickly and for over
This is what happens when interest rates go up which is why I don't for a moment believe the "average house price" stat, I'm sure it's real but I think it's extremely misleading, it's a crutch held by those who are desperate to get on the housing market. All that figure represents imo is the average house price of low quality housing. Quality housing remains only marginally impacted as the supply dries up and very little enters the market (and what does commands a high price) because very few people will sell a quality house for what they believe, rightly or wrongly, to be a discount rate.
This. High quality house prices have about as much in common with low quality house prices as gold prices do with gold mining company stocks. Somewhat correlated but not too strongly, never inverted.
Where I'm going to live is quite pricy and even the more expensive stuff can be kinda crummy, or need a lot of work. Very happy I found my place as since the offer was accepted at the beginning of May there's been absolutely nothing since I could afford or would be interested in
I have found as a property developer, around 5-6 years ago a house which needed renovating would come up which had 20-30k profit for the developer to renovate
In the last 5-6 years these have completely vanished because people see a cheap home and can now get a mortgage for it, and will live in it without renovation.
My nans bungalow went for sale which hadn’t had any work done for 50 years, rising damp throughout. Now 4 adults live in that house and children too! No renovations at all.
I had this issue when I was looking in South London from January - April. Lots of former BTLs or buildings that just had service changes hiked up (one had gone from £1200 to £4,000 which I was assured was 'temporary'). Anything decent was snapped in a week or two.
There were also plenty of unreasonable sellers. I offered on one place (10% or so under) and was rejected. I was told the owner had accepted an offer for asking in Feb '22 and expected the same (hilarious). I see it finally sold after sitting for 5 months on the market and I'll be shocked if he got his price. It was a share of freehold but I found the other two freeholders were daughter/father who lived elsewhere (so I'd always be outvoted).
>buildings that just had service changes hiked up (one had gone from £1200 to £4,000 which I was assured was 'temporary').
South Norwood/Crystal Palace? If so I viewed the exact same property, insane that they think anyone would believe that the hike is just temporary 😂
These were in Lambeth! These put me even further off buying a leasehold (I ended up with a SoFH). Some EA were telling me it was for fire safety upgrades but I wasn't going to take the risk.
Yes I noticed the same situation in my area.
Thats nearly exactly what I posted in different thread few hours ago regarding house prices.
What is the difference if the house prices are going up or down when there is nothing interesting to buy in the first place?
Been looking for a first buy getting frustrated with them being auctions now.
Buyers Premium
£1200 inc vat payable upon the fall of the virtual gavel
Administration Charge
Administration Charge is a non-refundable £1,200 inc VAT payable on the fall of the virtual gavel
That ontop of needing to pay for a survey of any place I might be interested in is not feasible.
I bought our house at the peak of the market (upsizing). I was stressing it was a terrible financial decision seeing prices drop etc.
Although I have to say, supply is still tiny. Coming up to a year since we made the offer, and I've not seen a house I prefer on the market. If prices dropped, I'd bet most people with the kind of house we wanted would just sit on it until the market went up.
That, and we plan to live here until we retire so I shouldn't give a shit about house value anyway, made me sleep a little easier.
It's more of a buyers market right now, but you're right, there's still not a good supply.
It'll change if there's a true crash - and people have to sell in large numbers due to job losses and mortgage rises. So far, even with the interest rates, I think people are buckling down and making do paying those higher rates so far though, it's just reduced demand as people adjust what they can afford when buying - it's not forced people to sell. Yet.
Though people with BTL are probably selling more.
Prices are just starting to fall, do search on Zoopla and click most reduced. In my area, n19, almost 50% have been reduced. That’s just the start it’s going to be carnage when people come to the end of fixed term. Give it 6 months, there will be blood.
What happens when people come to the end of their fixed terms, do you mean that because they can't afford the new monthly payment with the increased interest then they will be forced to downsize?
People aren't wanting to move to bigger houses. This means most houses are probate, people giving up btls due to not being to regulation and new builds.
My son is buying in Bristol
What I noticed lots of ex family rentals with no chain and not in particularly nice condition a few probate
I seen Lots of reductions recently on right move
I’ve seen quite a few houses that my son looked at that were 325 are now 310
My son is buying a really nice house in Bristol
3 bed 2 baths driveway
Extended and remodernised to a really high standard
It’s almost like a new build
Even has a proper home office built in the garden with electric lights heating
Ticks all the boxes and it’s the sort of home you could live in for a long time
He was first to view and made an offer same day that was accepted
House was 330 he offered 315 and they accepted and it’s progressing nicely so far
The owners owned and remodernised 5 houses in the street all pretty much the same style except the house my sons buying is the owners so it’s been done to a higher standard than the other and it’s the house they lived in so it’s of a really nice spec
The owners have another house next door for sale but that’s not sold yet and they said they would move into the other house that they are just finishing off and is empty if they can’t buy anything in time
My son has a big deposit 90k and was a safe bet so I think that’s why they took his offer rather than try and hold out for a better offer
And with the size of the deposit my son has he’s not to worried about any price drops
He plans to overpay around 5k each year hopefully
One house he made an offer on was 325 he offered 310 then 315
They wanted 320 but would accept 318
It was a nice house and slightly better location and my son was considering it but then he looked at the other house and decided to buy that one
House is still on the market today and has not sold
You mean to say the Reddit house price crash herd were wrong.....predicting legions of homes for sale at bargain basement prices.......can't say I'm overly surprised
Anyone with half a brain realises just with every dip in house prices, unless you are forced to sell (which unless there is a significant recession and you + significant other loose your job, you are not) then homeowners will just sit on their property, pay off the mortgage and wait for better times
Back to their rented bedsits they go hahaha
I am relieved as an ex-renter that you’re seeing a lot of btls on the market because I hope that means the btl bubble is bursting and it deserves to. Im glad that ex-rentals are cheaper to buy because they are bland and uninviting and kitted out as cheaply as possible and there is a lot of work to do to them to make them feel homely. I bought an ex-rental and it has/will cost me a lot to make it into somewhere that feels like home.
If the number of BTLs sold off increases, but owner-occupier sales falls, overall supply could remain steady while having the appearance of lower quality stock.
I dislike the lease and management of the property I offered (undisclosed no sinking fund, double ground rent clause, future maintenance work/expense without scope/price tag) so I am urgently finding another chain free property as a replacement.
Funnily every property I come across this round is chain free vacant ;) which shows they are likely ex-tenanted properties. Ex-tenanted properties tend to have worse quality on things like location, interior or whether it is within a council estate.
Thankfully some of them are attractive enough to persuade my (slightly) risky move :)
Yes, I’m house hunting and there’s nothing decent on.
And not only are they bad houses, many of way over priced, like Pie in the Sky prices!
Wife and I are thinking of quitting the search and waiting until 2024
No one is selling a good property atm cause loads of people, can’t afford to buy the next properties in higher bracket based on bank lending criteria being tighter
There is some real shit houses for sale for way too much in my area. Tiny, cramped houses that have 2 small bedrooms and they're listed like 30k over what would be reasonable. When a fairly priced house, in good condition comes on it's snapped up in days. Just shite all round really
Looking to downsize because I feel like it doesn't worth keep a lot of equity in my property in this economy + stagnant home price grow. Look around the market and found almost nothing that is worth paying for + moving. I can afford living in this house with the new interest so I decide to hold on until the timing is better. So I guess I'm one of them. My house is pretty decent since it was just fully renovated so I'm sure it won't take too long to go judging from how my neighbour neighbour just sold theirs.
If you’re not a forced seller (debt, death, divorce), you’re not going to sell at the moment; sitting tight is the rational thing to do. It means that few good houses will come on the market. Because the housing market is illiquid, this then makes it look like house prices have dropped even further in the stats.
I'm in Cambridge, and came here to say the opposite!... Well depending on your preference. Love purchasing renovation projects, there's so much more choice in my price range now and can negotiate down and still locked in at 4.2%. I just had an offer accepted after finding an ideal property in a nice rural location after negotiating 15% below the asking price. Now I'm wondering if I leaped too soon ha!
Oh no fully renovated atm would make around £450-500k, with an added extension and ceiling price in the area £600k.
Edit: I'm spending £50k to renovate to a high spec.
I've been house hunting for a few months. I've been to upwards of 30 houses for viewings and the constant trend seems to be houses in decent areas with 2022 and 2023 prices that havent been updated or upkept in years. I feel for the people selling them, but none of the houses are remotely affordable for what is needed to make them liveable. I saw a house that needed full carpet replacement, a new kitchen floor and boiler, garden needed professional care with how overgrown it was with hard to manage plants and brambles, and its roof was falling to bits. 160k was the asking price. Needless to say, I wasnt surprised to see it still on the market 2 months later.
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Have been for ages. Lots of terrible quality too-small conversions of larger houses. It still drives me crazy that I can't filter by square metreage on any of the big property sites.
Such a great idea. My Rightmove click pattern is always Floor plan first to check sqm. The crazy fisheye lenses they use in the photos utterly distorts the image so this is the only way to find out the scale/size of the rooms. And the British obsession with bedrooms nearly always means ever tinier rooms....so this metric is meaningless
The British obsession with bedrooms! I'm looking for a 1 bed flat (no kids, poor) but I looked up 2 and 3 bed flats in our area out of curiosity. The 2 beds are just 1 beds with no living room. The 3 beds are just 1 beds with no living room and no space for a dining table. The sq footage differs very little. It's like cutting a 6 slice pizza into 12 slices and calling it a large. I'd rather live in a big studio than the same size space cut into 5 cramped rooms
My son looked at 2 bed new build a few months ago The master bedroom was big with an ensuite The second bedroom you couldn’t fit a single bed and a wardrobe / small bed side drawers I told the women it was really a one bed with aspirations 😂 She agreed that most people use the second room as either a office or wardrobe
A lot of garages that come with new builds are noted as for "seasonal storage". Translated = don't you dare think you can put anything much bigger than a Smart car in here.
I know Just either build a garage I can fit my car in and get out without needing to be a yoga instructor or don’t bother
Same wirh me.. I am looking for 2 beds but seeing 1 beds bigger than 2 beds.. but still going for 2 as I atleast have the privacy of a second room.
> The British obsession with bedrooms! It seems to have got into people's heads that more bedrooms = higher price, which is such a travesty. I was looking at a house a few months ago that I adored. It was pretty tiny, something like a 4B/2BR at 1500 sqft, and when you looked at the bedrooms they were absolutely miniscule. The very first thing I thought was how all the problems would be solved by taking that entire second floor living space, converting it into two normal-sized bedrooms and a small home office, but the value of the house would absolutely plummet as a result. Such a shame
Yeah it's insane. The thing with new builds now seems to be extra bathrooms too. I keep seeing horrible new build layouts where there's barely any living space in a 2 bed flat but there are two bathrooms. Ah yes, I'll just host dinner in one of my two showers
Ha ha that was exactly like the flat my son looked at
It’s modern dining, darling, don’t you know anything?
"You've heard of sh-t, shower and shave, now imagine the convenience of doing all three in arm's reach of your ~~microwave~~ ultra-modern electromagnetic oven"
Add to that the lack of bathrooms. The amount of 4+ bedroom houses that have a single bathroom is insane
> It was pretty tiny, something like a 4B/2BR at 1500 sqft That is unfortunately about an average to even slightly above average four-bed ([source](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725085/Floor_Space_in_English_Homes_main_report.pdf)). But yes, I certainly agree. We've bought a house with an extra bedroom we don't need because you need to if you want more space, even though it's not optimally configured.
Rightmove have attempted to build that sort of feature before, apparently so many of the large estate agents threatened to pull out that it was a non-starter
Meanwhile in Germany houses are literally priced per square meter.
Don't know about Germany, but in Slovenia they also tend to detail the total plot area, in addition to the internal area, in the listing.
I'm shocked that Estate Agents would be against introducing more transparency and honest into the marketing of the properties they are selling. Shocked I tell you!!
Interesting, where did you hear or read this? Rightmove is lacking a lot of functionality
The lack of filters drives me mad. Why can’t we filter by number of bathrooms, garden size etc
And "not an auction". The amount of good looking properties I saw but were auction or cash only, but didn't state it properly until you actually enquired about it...
"cash buyers only" drives me insane too. Might as well say "investment corps and landlords only".
So annoying! £/sq. M is such a good metric too. Wish they'd include it.
What I wouldn't give for an "upstairs bathroom" filter option, while we're at it 😭
You can on https://flats.fyi, it has most of the properties (just around London though).
Right!! When I was looking at houses in Spain, they use a website called idealista that lets you filter by sq metreage, and it's a game changer!
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People forget that the housing market isn't rational. As if we need the reminder after the last decade. Anything decent is usually held by owner occupiers who won't let the property go for much less than it's peak value because they're so heavily invested (usually the house is most of their net worth). Like what we saw after the Brexit vote when buyers held off, sellers responded by withdrawing from the market as well to wait for a better time to sell. They couldn't care less about affordability or if the market is suggesting they need to cut prices to shift their property. If they don't need to sell then they just won't participate in the "free market". As you say, those seeing discounts and sitting in the market are typically BTL landlords or probates where the owners are selling to just realise their profit. A BTL landlord that bought the house for a fraction more than a decade ago doesn't care if he makes £20k less on a property if he's still making £100k+ profit regardless. Likewise, in a probate the new owners are taking the entire sale in cash. They don't care if they drop it 5 or 10%. But these houses are typically undesirable for owner occupiers due to either location or condition.
>If they don't need to sell then they just won't participate in the "free market". They are the market makers..........not selling their house doesn't mean they aren't "participating", they are still very much so participating and controlling the stock
All of the behaviour you described sounds super rational to me. It's how I would expect sellers to behave. Until fixed rates get too much or we see job losses I wouldn't expect lots to come on the market. If we see both at the same time, or a recession after a couple of years of high rates meaning lots of homeowners fixed at high repayments I would expect a lot of supply to appear.
Also worth noting that BTL Landlords will have a large CGT bill to pay, meaning that the discount will not hurt as much
The slide comes when the number of people who "absolutely have to move" increases. Either through very sustained high IR, or by increases in those losing their jobs. If you were predicting big slides you'd probably point to a looming recession. If companies go under and unemployment climbs then it will increase the number of people who can't afford to stay put and are forced to downsize.
Exactly this. If we get a recession and unemployment numbers creep up, we may very well see the bottom drop out.
Fingers crossed
You’re hoping that lots of people lose their jobs?
Anything to nuke the housing market
So I assume you are looking to buy a house. You do realise if a lot of people lose their jobs, this could also include yourself right?
Unlikely . I explicitly work in the automation of jobs , lol .
Yes not now . More like in 3-5 years . So housing going down is 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 considering the absolutely absurd rises during Covid .
Honestly, I hope you are one of the people who loses a job, then you will think twice wishing this on anyone. FOOL
Unlikely bruh 😎. I’m not wishing joblessness on anyone , just wishing crashy crashy housing
Grow up
Never. This is the squarest sub of all time
No only simpletons like you need a brain and need to learn to think, good luck on that 20k a year job buying any house.
Good I hope prices keep rising so you can't afford a house. People like you are more entitled than the average fool. Let me point out one simple fact for your dim-witted mind. House Prices Crash, Job Recession Comes, even in your line of work you're going to get laid off. Then you can't get a mortgage either for what you can now. You STILL won't be able to afford a more expensive house than you can now. GOOD LUCK WISHING AND HOPING!
I’ll be fine either way , I have a lucrative career. I worry more for my younger brother that got charged 9 fucking grand a year to go uni at a 8% interest rate , living in a room in a converted garage for a thousand pounds a fucking month . This system must fall . And the conditions are right only when people that would usually become the elite are stopped from doing so. Revolutions are literally never run by the actual working class , they’re too busy focusing on surviving .
Yep definitely noticed this My seller is being a complete pain in the arse, so I’ve kept my eye on the market to see if anything else comes up that I like the look of/as backup. I can move my mortgage offer to another property so interest rates aren’t stopping me (only completion time, so I’d need no chain) I’ve seen absolutely nothing in my price range that I even want to view in the last 2 months. Which is surprising as I thought house prices falling meant that more desirable properties would fall into my range..
Not really related but im interested in hearing how your seller is being a pain?
They aren’t on nightmare level yet and I’ve heard stories about sellers who’re much worse, so maybe I’m being a bit harsh, but it has me worried they’re the sort of person to pull out any second So far they: Advertised the property as no chain Saw the seller when we viewed who said the property was ‘no chain’ and they have family they can move in, but they are looking to downsize Lied to us about their reduction dates (not realising the right move chrome extension lets you view the price history) and lied about another interested party with an offer better than our (didn’t admit this but we didn’t improve our offer and then ours was accepted). But this is standard negotiation scare tactics Then after we’ve got our mortgage offer approved and are starting surveys, we get an email saying “the seller has now found a property they want to move into so this may add a little bit of time but there’s no chain as it’s vacant”. Bit annoying but I’m not a dick so I’m not going to kick off when somebody has a house to move into After about 2 1/2 months they then decide to pull out of the house they’re purchasing and say “there’s another place we might put an offer in on this weekend”. So back to square one At this point I kicked off a bit and said that our offer would be reduced if we were forced to keep paying rent for months whilst waiting about, and if our mortgage offer expires we’ll be reducing our offer so that our monthly mortgage repayments are the same under the new rate. And all of a sudden they have an offer accepted on a ‘vacant’ property that very evening (so I don’t believe a word of it) And this is all after they had their estate agent nagging us every other day on what our position was for the first month after our viewing. Now they aren’t so keen on chatting with us. Checking on their position with this new ‘vacant property’ at the end of the week
You sellers sounds like someone who was trying to buy my house, they had an offer accepted on a property, but then wanted to buy ours at 15% below market rate told then no, then went away and said they would discuss with their partner never returned any calls from EA. Then we reduced the price by 5% and came back with an offer 12% lower (lower than their original offer) and were confused why we didn't take it. Then after thinking about it with their wife for 2 weeks made a better offer that we were thinking about but within 24 hours had pulled our their original property and made an offer on something else that had been accepted and were now no longer interested.
not being an ass but what if you look above your price range? Is there supply? Unless you are all cash in an area with zero cash buyers your sinking on the same tide
Oh I do have above my price filtered for in searches. But I haven’t seen anything that I like the look of even if I could get it 10-15% below asking There’s supply but the supply just seems to be a bit crap. Properties that need too much work doing or have at least one big downfall. When I started my search 6 months ago I would see something that ticked all the boxes now and then, and I viewed 15 houses in total from Feb-May. But I’ve only seen 2 houses I would have considered viewing since June and both of them were already marked sold before my seller started playing games, so they went super quick
but are there are properties on the market t015% over your budget, that are going STC? I'm not being an ass I'm genuinly interested if your expectations are unrealistic or not
Yeah there are still properties selling which I like the look of but don’t tick all my boxes. There are also still a few I viewed back in April-May that still haven’t sold I’d say my standards are high but not unrealistic (in one of the ‘nicer areas’ within a certain 10 mins radius, off road parking, 3+ bed semi/end terrace, decent sized living room, garden, no conservatory, doesn’t need major renovations. Nothing out of the ordinary which I feel I should have to compromise on for my budget). Like I said I’ve already had an offer accepted somewhere (and for 5% under my max budget) that I really like, so I know there are houses out there within my budget. But I’m seeing less of them now than I saw 2-3 months ago, when I would’ve thought it would be the opposite situation with house prices falling
Prices aren't falling that much in most places. The average sale price may have fallen but that's largely due to people in expensive houses not moving much and a lot of sales are at the cheaper end of the market. There's fewer houses for sale and fewer people looking to buy, but in most areas potential purchasers are still outnumbering people putting up decent houses for sale so prices for houses in good condition will continue to rise.
Contrary to popular belief and other markets, when house prices go down it becomes even less possible to buy anything. The only way to buy anything is for prices to keep going up. This is why no matter what, the best time to buy a property was yesterday.
Looking in NW England and finding that a mix of decent houses and ones that need updating are coming on but overall, all are overpriced. Ones that would clearly need a lot of work are on really highly priced and just sitting there for months. Decent houses are coming down but not shifting quickly unless on at a highly attractive price.
They aren't overpriced if people buy them, though. It seems to me that the properties are still selling, they're just less affordable to the wider market.
Yes, totally agree, for example, 4 bed detacheds - one on at £360k, sitting there for weeks and reducing over time, one came on last week at £270k and sold within 2 days. We didn't even get to go look at it because owner accepted the sale and said no more viewings. And because it was on for £270k I'm gonna guess it got asking price or over to secure the sale from the buyers side. Edit: my original comment was more commenting on what houses are on the market for a long time, anything that sells usually has been reduced a lot over time or is like my example above.
Guy getting downvoted for explaining basic market theory lol
Standard. This sub often seems to think the housing market should somehow be exempt from basic buying and selling principles and every house should be available for a tenner.
Hey! I'm totally open to hearing people's opinions on housing - I'm a FTB with limited knowledge of the market. Apologies if my comments have been off the mark and if there is anything I can learn I'm open to doing so. I was merely stating my observations and can assume that properties that have been on for more than 6 months are overpriced asking prices as they aren't shifting? Open to hearing if I'm getting this wrong or I'm off the mark.
Oh I didn't mean you, I meant down voting for stating the unfortunate obvious is common to this sub. Yes houses still on the market for more than 6 months are possibly overpriced but there's other factors too. My experience of buying and selling in NW England is that *good* properties always get sold and often for over the asking price.
Ohhhh my bad! 🤣
I have some magic beans for you then. People buying something does not give you an indication if the market is over or under priced. You can only determine if you payed a reasonable price when you sell something you buy or when all usefulness has been extracted.
Most houses for sale in my area are the ones where the owner has not done anything to the place in the last 40 years. They all start out expecting 2022 prices, but eventually they're all getting reduced and still not selling.
the ones that get left on the market are the ones nobody wants at the current prices. However, when a great house comes up for sale it's very quickly marked as SSTC by the weekend. For example: 4 bed detached on edge of suburbs but a bit too close to the centre of town, double garage, executive estate built in the 90s, new kitchen £650k>£625k>£600k>£575k and still on the market vs small 3 bed detached with detached garage on 1/2acre 2 miles out of town, a bit dated but great views and privacy, £950k SSTC after 3 days.
Yep. Midland FTB, everything is either an ex rental that hasn’t been touched in 15 years or an elderly persons home. No cash to renovate a property, but don’t want to pay more than our rent for a house we don’t like either. Frustrating.
Landlords selling a up as loads of shit properties come on the market? I just can’t see a correlation 🤷♂️
As an immigrant I must say that the quality of houses in the UK is quite low overall.
As an immigrant from Hong Kong I must say the quality of houses in the UK is much better than HK for the same price :)
Where do you come from and where do you live - there is a massive variety of quality in the UK
Not OP, but I come from Latvia, live in London and have a similar observation. If it's not a new build, then it's a dump moldy shit hole with zero insulation not suitable for human habitation. Why would anyone buy any house older than 20 years or so is beyond me...
Older than 20 years?! That's probably 95% of the houses in the country you're ruling out
State of the house is not equal build quality. I find old UK house has a pretty good build judging from how long it stand. Compare to new build u will be shock.
If you think the standard of new builds is good, you're in for a shock.
And if it's a new build, it'll likely be shoddy with small rooms and chances are, without a driveway. Much rather have an older house with larger rooms and often a driveway/garden. But agree with the general point here - housing in the UK is, on the whole, very poor
Hmm, new builds will fly away into the sky when the first shockwave hits, 1940-60 builds will stay grounded with some window and roof damage. When Putin drops one I mean….
Yeh, we're very snobby about new builds and flats when these tend to be far better quality (insulation, standards) than the victorian workers' terraces we idolise!
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I think it's specification vs workmanship. New build must have much much better spec but workmanship......hmmm......
Old stuff that survived is always going to be better than new stuff, on the simple virtue that it was built well enough to last. It's survivorship bias. There's plenty of utter wank terraced houses about, but they usually get flattened
Finding a decent house was like finding a needle in a haystack for us
I think it's been like this for a while now. I'm sure most people with nice houses who feel like moving are just staying put until things settle, even if they don't really want to stay in their current house. What you're seeing are the houses where people don't really have much choice but to sell.
A lot of people are extending rather than buying. There's a road of lovely detached houses not far from me and in the last few years about half have had extentions put on.
We had the same issue - very few desirable houses coming on, when they did they went in a couple of days. We ended up spending £60k or so less than our maximum budget for a house that was great structurally and in good conditions but it’s needs fully redecorating, new kitchen and bathroom. It’s not stylish but it’s practical and in a good location. I was a bit down about it - there’s only so much we can do and it’s never going to be the house of my dreams but we’ve been here a month and already really benefitting from the extra space, drive etc.
We had a couple of houses fall through and ended up buying a bit of a tip but which was very solid structurally and, 20ish months down the line, we've put a lot of work in to end with a pretty nice place.
That is what happens when house prices drop or there is uncertainty in the market. Many think it will be a FTB dream as houses will be cheaper. That isn't necessarily true as the quality of the stock decreases. Many people will be holding out until the market settles/recovers as people will be more inclined to buy.
Oh. And here I thought I was just being too nitpicky. It's basically all houses that look like they're about to fall down or flats that want your firstborn as service charges.
For me, it's the ungodly amounts of mould in houses. People just don't look after their shit
Yeah, this is the issue with "house prices are dropping". A significant portion is that only cheaper houses are selling, not that houses are selling for less than they were before.
This is exactly what happens during a downturn. People just re-evaluate the need to move . Housing stock becomes nothing but repossessions/probate/landlords selling up. Desirable properties that are priced well are very few and far between and expect them to sell quickly and for over
This is what happens when interest rates go up which is why I don't for a moment believe the "average house price" stat, I'm sure it's real but I think it's extremely misleading, it's a crutch held by those who are desperate to get on the housing market. All that figure represents imo is the average house price of low quality housing. Quality housing remains only marginally impacted as the supply dries up and very little enters the market (and what does commands a high price) because very few people will sell a quality house for what they believe, rightly or wrongly, to be a discount rate.
This. High quality house prices have about as much in common with low quality house prices as gold prices do with gold mining company stocks. Somewhat correlated but not too strongly, never inverted.
Where I'm going to live is quite pricy and even the more expensive stuff can be kinda crummy, or need a lot of work. Very happy I found my place as since the offer was accepted at the beginning of May there's been absolutely nothing since I could afford or would be interested in
I have found as a property developer, around 5-6 years ago a house which needed renovating would come up which had 20-30k profit for the developer to renovate In the last 5-6 years these have completely vanished because people see a cheap home and can now get a mortgage for it, and will live in it without renovation. My nans bungalow went for sale which hadn’t had any work done for 50 years, rising damp throughout. Now 4 adults live in that house and children too! No renovations at all.
I had this issue when I was looking in South London from January - April. Lots of former BTLs or buildings that just had service changes hiked up (one had gone from £1200 to £4,000 which I was assured was 'temporary'). Anything decent was snapped in a week or two. There were also plenty of unreasonable sellers. I offered on one place (10% or so under) and was rejected. I was told the owner had accepted an offer for asking in Feb '22 and expected the same (hilarious). I see it finally sold after sitting for 5 months on the market and I'll be shocked if he got his price. It was a share of freehold but I found the other two freeholders were daughter/father who lived elsewhere (so I'd always be outvoted).
>buildings that just had service changes hiked up (one had gone from £1200 to £4,000 which I was assured was 'temporary'). South Norwood/Crystal Palace? If so I viewed the exact same property, insane that they think anyone would believe that the hike is just temporary 😂
These were in Lambeth! These put me even further off buying a leasehold (I ended up with a SoFH). Some EA were telling me it was for fire safety upgrades but I wasn't going to take the risk.
Explains why rents are becoming insane here atm too.
Yes I noticed the same situation in my area. Thats nearly exactly what I posted in different thread few hours ago regarding house prices. What is the difference if the house prices are going up or down when there is nothing interesting to buy in the first place?
We find decent houses but they sell within days. Cant even get a viewing sometimes!
Been looking for a first buy getting frustrated with them being auctions now. Buyers Premium £1200 inc vat payable upon the fall of the virtual gavel Administration Charge Administration Charge is a non-refundable £1,200 inc VAT payable on the fall of the virtual gavel That ontop of needing to pay for a survey of any place I might be interested in is not feasible.
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Or a castle in the midlands?
I bought our house at the peak of the market (upsizing). I was stressing it was a terrible financial decision seeing prices drop etc. Although I have to say, supply is still tiny. Coming up to a year since we made the offer, and I've not seen a house I prefer on the market. If prices dropped, I'd bet most people with the kind of house we wanted would just sit on it until the market went up. That, and we plan to live here until we retire so I shouldn't give a shit about house value anyway, made me sleep a little easier. It's more of a buyers market right now, but you're right, there's still not a good supply. It'll change if there's a true crash - and people have to sell in large numbers due to job losses and mortgage rises. So far, even with the interest rates, I think people are buckling down and making do paying those higher rates so far though, it's just reduced demand as people adjust what they can afford when buying - it's not forced people to sell. Yet. Though people with BTL are probably selling more.
Prices are just starting to fall, do search on Zoopla and click most reduced. In my area, n19, almost 50% have been reduced. That’s just the start it’s going to be carnage when people come to the end of fixed term. Give it 6 months, there will be blood.
What happens when people come to the end of their fixed terms, do you mean that because they can't afford the new monthly payment with the increased interest then they will be forced to downsize?
People aren't wanting to move to bigger houses. This means most houses are probate, people giving up btls due to not being to regulation and new builds.
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Because house prices are NOT going down. It's a myth that they are.
My son is buying in Bristol What I noticed lots of ex family rentals with no chain and not in particularly nice condition a few probate I seen Lots of reductions recently on right move I’ve seen quite a few houses that my son looked at that were 325 are now 310 My son is buying a really nice house in Bristol 3 bed 2 baths driveway Extended and remodernised to a really high standard It’s almost like a new build Even has a proper home office built in the garden with electric lights heating Ticks all the boxes and it’s the sort of home you could live in for a long time He was first to view and made an offer same day that was accepted House was 330 he offered 315 and they accepted and it’s progressing nicely so far The owners owned and remodernised 5 houses in the street all pretty much the same style except the house my sons buying is the owners so it’s been done to a higher standard than the other and it’s the house they lived in so it’s of a really nice spec The owners have another house next door for sale but that’s not sold yet and they said they would move into the other house that they are just finishing off and is empty if they can’t buy anything in time My son has a big deposit 90k and was a safe bet so I think that’s why they took his offer rather than try and hold out for a better offer And with the size of the deposit my son has he’s not to worried about any price drops He plans to overpay around 5k each year hopefully One house he made an offer on was 325 he offered 310 then 315 They wanted 320 but would accept 318 It was a nice house and slightly better location and my son was considering it but then he looked at the other house and decided to buy that one House is still on the market today and has not sold
You mean to say the Reddit house price crash herd were wrong.....predicting legions of homes for sale at bargain basement prices.......can't say I'm overly surprised Anyone with half a brain realises just with every dip in house prices, unless you are forced to sell (which unless there is a significant recession and you + significant other loose your job, you are not) then homeowners will just sit on their property, pay off the mortgage and wait for better times Back to their rented bedsits they go hahaha
I am relieved as an ex-renter that you’re seeing a lot of btls on the market because I hope that means the btl bubble is bursting and it deserves to. Im glad that ex-rentals are cheaper to buy because they are bland and uninviting and kitted out as cheaply as possible and there is a lot of work to do to them to make them feel homely. I bought an ex-rental and it has/will cost me a lot to make it into somewhere that feels like home.
Supply is about steady. It is a price thing. What happens if you up the price filter?
If the number of BTLs sold off increases, but owner-occupier sales falls, overall supply could remain steady while having the appearance of lower quality stock.
I am finding this in my area and I don't use any filters. Supply is definitely lower in my area.
I dislike the lease and management of the property I offered (undisclosed no sinking fund, double ground rent clause, future maintenance work/expense without scope/price tag) so I am urgently finding another chain free property as a replacement. Funnily every property I come across this round is chain free vacant ;) which shows they are likely ex-tenanted properties. Ex-tenanted properties tend to have worse quality on things like location, interior or whether it is within a council estate. Thankfully some of them are attractive enough to persuade my (slightly) risky move :)
Yes that’s what I noticed Lots of family type homes 3 beds no chain Ex rental
Same in my area down South. The market is dead.
Sounds like the rental market for the last 15 years!
Yes. I was very lucky to find the house I'm currently buying. I wish you good luck in your search, it's not easy but you'll get there!
Yes, I’m house hunting and there’s nothing decent on. And not only are they bad houses, many of way over priced, like Pie in the Sky prices! Wife and I are thinking of quitting the search and waiting until 2024
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Yes ours is sale agreed too, but we’d rather wait and potentially lose the buyer than settle for a poor quality home
What is your situation? Do you have a house to sell?
No one is selling a good property atm cause loads of people, can’t afford to buy the next properties in higher bracket based on bank lending criteria being tighter
Many many buy to let houses for sale
True, seeing the same in my area as well.
There is some real shit houses for sale for way too much in my area. Tiny, cramped houses that have 2 small bedrooms and they're listed like 30k over what would be reasonable. When a fairly priced house, in good condition comes on it's snapped up in days. Just shite all round really
Looking to downsize because I feel like it doesn't worth keep a lot of equity in my property in this economy + stagnant home price grow. Look around the market and found almost nothing that is worth paying for + moving. I can afford living in this house with the new interest so I decide to hold on until the timing is better. So I guess I'm one of them. My house is pretty decent since it was just fully renovated so I'm sure it won't take too long to go judging from how my neighbour neighbour just sold theirs.
I think we need to do a purge on lettings agent and conservatives
If you’re not a forced seller (debt, death, divorce), you’re not going to sell at the moment; sitting tight is the rational thing to do. It means that few good houses will come on the market. Because the housing market is illiquid, this then makes it look like house prices have dropped even further in the stats.
I'm in Cambridge, and came here to say the opposite!... Well depending on your preference. Love purchasing renovation projects, there's so much more choice in my price range now and can negotiate down and still locked in at 4.2%. I just had an offer accepted after finding an ideal property in a nice rural location after negotiating 15% below the asking price. Now I'm wondering if I leaped too soon ha!
If its an actual renovation 15% below a renovated wont touch the sides.
Oh no fully renovated atm would make around £450-500k, with an added extension and ceiling price in the area £600k. Edit: I'm spending £50k to renovate to a high spec.
Which is your area?
I've been house hunting for a few months. I've been to upwards of 30 houses for viewings and the constant trend seems to be houses in decent areas with 2022 and 2023 prices that havent been updated or upkept in years. I feel for the people selling them, but none of the houses are remotely affordable for what is needed to make them liveable. I saw a house that needed full carpet replacement, a new kitchen floor and boiler, garden needed professional care with how overgrown it was with hard to manage plants and brambles, and its roof was falling to bits. 160k was the asking price. Needless to say, I wasnt surprised to see it still on the market 2 months later.