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Hey:
Firstly nice they told you, they could have just pretended it was fine.
I have a built in microwave, they come with a warranty. If outside if warranty you can still contact Bosch and get a quote to fix it - if it is the fuse an electrician could do it. If it’s the magnetron (the part of the microwave that creates microwaves) you need Bosch - so if it isn’t turning on at all that might turnout to be good news.
Do not fall out with the sellers while they are still in the property at all costs because they can fuck with you, and it sounds like they are trying to be transparent, so I’d advise keeping your communication positive.
That’s the struggle, it looks like a new microwave oven to replace it ‘like for like’ is £500, which I understand isn’t a lot when we’re buying a £700k house, but also is a lot when we are buying a £700k house because we have nothing left 😂.
We want to stay on good terms with them and the solicitor side of things hasn’t been easy (various difficult legal hoops to jump through for them, which will have cost money!), so I don’t want to be difficult, but equally don’t want to be shafted.
OP stated: "We exchanged last week" - there is no "killing this deal" to be considered here
OP has exchanged on the house and the fixtures and fittings agreed contained a microwave, therefore OP can expect a microwave of the same standard as was present when the contracts were signed
The question is whether OP wants to make an issue of it and risk the sellers being dicks, not whether OP pulls out
I mean could the sellers also justifiably find a second hand model from a equally reputable manufacturer? Surely it just needs to be in working order, equivalent brand and not older than the prior model?
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm referring to when I said
> therefore OP can expect a microwave of the same standard as was present when the contracts were signed
It doesn't have to be identical, just of a comparable standard to the one that was there when they signed the contract
Either way nobody's gonna be able to back out of the sale because of this. If the sellers tried then OP can compel them to sell, if OP tried then the sellers can keep OP's presumably-£70k deposit
I’m not a legal expert but using your car analogy if they were selling you a Ferrari and it crashed they couldn’t try and swap it for a Toyota Corolla. They could swap a blue Corolla for a grey one from the same year, and unless color was of the essence for your transaction that would be ok.
So they don’t have to swap for the same Bosch model but brand new. They can get a used microwave of another brand with similar functionality and that would be ok.
Thanks - so it would still need to be a built in microwave with an oven function etc. I don’t care about the brand I just would like it to have the same functionality.
You can definitely insist on a similar microwave, comparable functionality and fitted in the same way as the previous one
You might be able to insist it's the same brand and a similar model (within reason, eg if that one is discontinued and unavailable)
But realistically it's probably simplest to just ask for £200 compensation and put that towards a new microwave yourself
I’d think so. Your solicitor would be best placed to comment. I don’t know the intricacies of how this is handled on the legal side, but our sellers ended up with no washer as their sellers took it.. so this stuff happens unfortunately. Just being honest here, but if I was your seller and you were taking a hard stance on this I’d ask my solicitor if I can drop the price by £100 and call it a day. Just less hassle with everything else happening.
If I sold you a TV for £700 on finance with a £100 deposit then you noticed it was actually £700.05, and you had to pay the 5p upfront, you'd still buy it right?
That's a bit of a false analogy. For one thing it would be £0.50 not £0.05 in your 1/1000th example, but in any case that's just not how it works
Like I appreciate what you're saying in terms of it's a very small amount in proportion to the overall purchase... but a TV is not a house and £500 is not 50p, nor does someone finance a £700 TV at £2.50/month over 30 years
£500 to someone who's just thrown their resources into buying a house (even an expensive house) is still a fair chunk of cash. £500 is not a negligible amount of money for people to just ignore
I mean, even with your 5p/50 analogy suggesting that it's a negligible sum, I assume you don't consider £500 to be so negligible that you'll be offering to buy OP a new microwave, will you?
If you wouldn't be willing to front the £500 yourself then comparing it to 5p to suggest that OP is somehow being ridiculous is, frankly, a nonsensical argument. It isn't 5p, it's £500 and I think 99.9% of those reading this would care about losing £500 unnecessarily
You still wouldn’t have a TV.
Not sure that finding a house to buy is quite as easy as finding a TV either.
But you’d have made your point, stood your ground, cut your nose to spite your face, etc.
So if you crashed your car and you were given an inferior one that was the same age but clearly not the same make, this would be ok? I’m confused about what ‘like for like’ means.
Yes. Like for like means similar, not identical. If you crash your car they aren't going to pay out enough to get a new one, they pay what its worth at the time.
I'd be fine with it being the same age and make but having a different brand of tires on it. The house is the car. The microwave is the tires. You're intending to put the whole purchase in jeopardy over the brand of a microwave.
Crashing your car is a completely irrelevant analogy. You asked for conveyancing advice. In conveyancing, if a person has said an appliance is included in the sale and in working order, they have a duty to make sure if it breaks they fix it or replace with a separate appliance in working order. That doesn’t mean you get a brand new microwave oven with bells and whistles. It just means they need to replace it with something functional.
But does it have to have the same functionality? As in, it’s a microwave oven so it does both, do they have to replace it (if it *is* their responsibility, which doesn’t seem to be clear based on other comments) with one that does the same thing, or just a bog standard counter top microwave?
replacing old for new is not considered like for like replacement, this is used microwave so all you are entitled to is another used microwave of similar age and wear.
Similar age, wear, fitting and make? Or is the fitting and make not important when considering like for like? I’m just trying to work out how to value it
different brand but similar quality and functionality will also be acceptable, but you can’t realistically expect new appliance. best would be to agree on some cash equivalent compensation, eg. £200-£300
Thank you, this is what I’m leaning towards. I’ll have a chat with them - I think my suggestion will be asking whether they can get Bosch/a local firm to come to see if it’s repairable at their cost, and if it isn’t repairable, then we can split the cost of a new one. Hopefully they’ll be amenable to that.
> but also is a lot when we are buying a £700k house because we have nothing left 😂.
Sounds like you shouldn't have bought a house that expensive if you can't even afford a microwave replacement after purchasing it. Living on the edge is risky and ultimately expensive.
If a mortgage approved it then they can afford it. What's it with redditors telling everyone they can't afford a house because they don't have x10 the property value in their pockets?
You see it every time. Most people don’t have £500 on the spot randomly for a microwave. A lot of people leave things and save up. Not everyone can afford to fix everything straight away.
You see the crying with laughter emoji? Do you think maybe things are said in jest?
I don’t think it matters whether the item costs £5, £50, £500 or £5000- the question is who is responsible for ensuring it works/replacing it? Maybe you might be footloose and fancy free with your cash, but I am not. I am careful with money and if it isn’t my responsibility to replace it then I would like to ensure I am not out of pocket unnecessarily. I don’t see why this is such an alien concept.
>. I am careful with money
This doesn't square with your statement you're buying a 700K house and will have nothing left when the purchase is complete.
What are you going to do when the boiler craps out? Shower leaks? Fence blows down?
It's the fucking microwave which broke. It's a big bag of nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Life just doesn’t function this way. Who is responsible is irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. They been nice to you, just offer 200 discount as someone suggested and move on
We’re all conscious how we spend our money. You know what costs waaay more than a used crappy microwave? Restarting the buying process all over again
If you are worried about a £500 appliance when you are about to buy a house for £700k, you need to reassess your finances. It's a drop in the bucket. And shouldn't your conveyancing solicitor know if the sellers are obliged to sell the house with a functioning microwave?
I’m sorry, but I think you need a bit of a shake to wake up to reality.
This is a non-issue. Appliances break, you do without them for a bit and then you replace them, welcome to home ownership.
I think if I had someone insist I replaced A MICROWAVE for them I’d just find another buyer out of spite, you sound incredibly difficult to deal with.
And if you have nothing after buying the house I’m afraid that’s a you problem.
I bought the house including the microwave, which was working on the day(s) we viewed and when we exchanged. Whilst you may not deem it important, it is a fixture/fitting that is included and should come in good working order - as it was when we agreed to buy the property.
It is ‘just a microwave’, but my question is who is legally responsible for what.
We offered full asking price, have not negotiated on anything that came up in the survey, have a list of things that need moderately urgent attention from the survey. I’m not trying to be difficult but equally sorting out a new microwave oven (which is built in so would need to be replaced with a built in one) when I’ve just moved house wasn’t really in my plans.
Of course we can do that, but my question isn’t ’what practical advice can you give’, my question is :
I’m buying a house which includes working appliances, as per all the legal documents we have been provided with. One of those appliances is no longer working, who is legally responsible to ensure that it is in working order or replaced with a working order one?
I don’t think it’s that unreasonable a question, the legal documents are there for a reason?
Na you're just petty..the downvotes on all your comments speak volumes. Go and be a Karen all you like you're not buying my house. Why are you even asking on Reddit when you have paid for a solicitor?
I wasn’t going to bother a solicitor if the resounding answer is that it’s my responsibility post exchange.
But nobody on this sub actually seems to know the actual answer despite this being a housing sub, so I have now asked the solicitor.
"bother the solicitor" is it bothering if you paid for their services? Willing to go full Karen over a microwave but won't drop an email to your solicitor. Strange person.
>I wasn’t going to bother a solicitor if the resounding answer is that it’s my responsibility post exchange.
It is literally their job to answer this question. It's why you're paying them.
Are you completely sure the appliances are guaranteed working? I've only ever seen them sold as is, but then I've only been looking at a lower end of the market.
I get your point, but if a non-functioning microwave is the worst issue you have when you move then you should be counting your blessings.
As long as they replace it with a working one then legally they are fine.
Mate, you don't even know on a viewing if that microwave is going to be included or excluded. Are you seriously going to try and sit here and say that if the seller marked it as excluded that you'd have walked away from the transaction? After all those solicitor and and survey costs? Or that you'd threaten a price reduction because you offered assuming it was included?
Get the fuck out of here.
If it were to give up the ghost after I bought the house, it would be my responsibility. I totally get that.
But that isn’t the situation we’re in.
Like for like will be second hand absolutely, but would it be same make and ensuring it is fitted/fits the space perfectly? Clearly a second hand microwave is like £20 on Facebook marketplace, but I would have thought that isn’t ‘like for like’… you wouldn’t be happy if your BMW was replaced by a Vauxhall corsa. They’re both cars, but that’s where the similarities end.
If I was moving out, I'd stick anything similar that worked/fitted in the hole to satisfy the contract, even if it came from Facebook for £20, it's not a new microwave and I wouldn't replace it with new
It's broken after exchange therefore it's caveat empor, not the sellers responsibility, but yours. Bad luck, yes, but no reason to justify your attitude, you sound like a delight.
Thank you, that’s what I was asking, whether it was their responsibility or if I was wrong. I’m happy to admit when I’m wrong - I just assumed that things had to be kept in good working order between exchange and completion, because otherwise a seller could completely trash a house and you’d have no legal recourse.
Anyway if it is our responsibility then we will just get a new one.
I'm fairly sure this is the correct answer OP but ultimately you pay for a conveyancing solicitor for just this kind of eventuality. I would check with them just to make sure.
Thanks, I was just trying to gauge whether to bother with asking the solicitor as if there was a resounding ‘YES this is absolutely the sellers responsibitliy’ or ‘No this is absolutely your responsibility’ from Reddit, I wouldn’t bother asking.
Instead people seem to be obsessing over the practicalities rather than the legal side of things, so I will just ask my solicitor.
I did, but didn’t get straight answers there either. It seems to be that nobody really knows (except I suspect that you and u/Emergency-Room-5484 are correct)
That's not actually the correct answer. Caveat emptor doesn't apply when a good is listed on the fixtures and fittings form and working at the time of exchange.
Caveat emptor is like where you don't get an electrical survey and find out when you move in that you need £3,000 of electrical work. Very different scenario.
Your comment about the sellers could trash the house after exchange is why, as the buyer, you have to have house insurance in place from the exchange of contracts. As the buyer you are responsible for the house from exchange.
Tell me you're not a lawyer without telling me you're not a lawyer. If it broke before exchange you'd be right. After exchange, there's very much a claim against the seller.
They don't have to replace it with a brand new one. It might be easier to just ask for a payment equivalent to the value of a used one then put that towards whichever one you want to buy. But it might not be worth doing that, they've not tried to be shady about it and it's just one of those things.
It’s a built in appliance so surely we also have to factor in the cost of fitting something. Further how do you go about valuing a used built-in appliance? Clearly you can go onto Facebook Marketplace and buy a bog standard microwave second hand for pennies, but this is a built-in Bosch microwave oven so not as easy to value?
Say it cost £379 and it should last on average 8 years, if it's 4 years old then it's only worth £190 (that's on the generous side of things, by the way - depreciation isn't usually a straight line). If it's 8 years old well then you were probably going to need to buy a new one soon anyway.
You're buying something for hundreds of thousands of pounds, is it worth worrying about a couple of hundred quid?
Installation is a normal plug and sliding it in.
Straight line depreciation is most likely to be the way this would be calculated if this were to ever go to court (if it were, in some universe, worth going to court over this). OP is unlikely to sell it used so it's value on a curve wouldn't be relevant.
Built-in microwaves are really simple to fit, as long as you replace like for like with size. It's just a microwave that slides into a slot. A Bosch microwave might not be cheap (though it depends on model) but they could literally go down Currys and swap in the cheapest one that will fit.
They aren't that hard to fit - most just slide in/out and use a socket at the back.
A used one is probably around 50 - 150 quid, so I don't there there is much loss of value.
It’s a microwave oven rather than a bog standard microwave, and a replacement would need to fit the space perfectly, so I don’t think it’s as simple as saying a used one is xxx price, as we would be limited in what we could actually get in that situation.
I doubt legally this would be the case. Everything has a monetary value. I reckon even with fitting the value of a (assumption) quite used built-in microwave is pretty small, likely under 200 quid.
Ultimately if the seller won't fix, the you would be left with the choice of trying to sue for a sum like this (definitely not worth it) to just eat the loss as bad luck. Hopefully, the seller will fix and this is moot.
This sort of reminds me of a frequent post type on r/LegalAdviceUK where someone buys something at auction that they claim is an amazing bargain (say worth 1000, but paid 20). The item is lost or stolen. They want the 1000, but LA informs that they are only entitled to the 20 quid since that was the market value of the transaction. Also a bit like when landlords want the money for a brand new replacement for a 5-year old (and now depreciated) item that a tenant broke. Same story.
Yes, I presumed so, but I’ve also seen some very dodgy replacements in my time with very obvious gaps so I would want to be sure it does fit perfectly. It’s a microwave with an oven function so I don’t know if that makes a difference.
If you’re buying a £700k house, why haven’t you got the money to repair/replace a microwave oven lmao, if it would have gone pop after the 1st of March, it would be your issue it’s a few years old, it’s not worth the same money it was brand new why should the old owners pay for a whole brand new one plus fitting? It’s a few hundred pound, replace it when you move in and move on.
Just to add your comment of you’ve bought a £700k house and have literally nothing left kinda reads like I couldn’t afford this house but I bought it anyway, why would you buy a house with no reserve funds or any money to fix mishaps?
>If you’re buying a £700k house, why haven’t you got the money to repair/replace a microwave oven lmao
If they're selling a £700k house then why hasn't the seller got the money to repair/replace a microwave oven lmao
It’s reasonable wear and tear and not the sellers issue, why should they replace a item at risk of natural wear and tear in a house they have sold, if it would have happened 15 days later, the buyer would have had the same issue ffs 🤦♂️
This is pathetic beyond reason.
I would agree with this and see this all the time now wrt to house buying and selling. Seems that everyone has a gripe with either the seller, or buyer, that they want to then sue the £uck out of rather than trying to discuss the issue like grown adults.
Has OP said to the sellers..."Can we go 50/50 on a brand new microwave?"
No. It's straight to they have to pay, or repair. End of.
It’s a classic case of someone chucking every scrap of money they’ve got at a house they cannot afford with no reserve and it will come back to haunt them that’s why they’re worried about £500, it’s absolutely stupid.
I have already said I’m not worried about £500, my point is I’m not willing to spend it if it isn’t my legal responsibility to do so. If it is my responsibility to do so, then I will of course do it. I think my original post was very clear, I was asking if it is their *responsibility* or not.
Our sellers are lovely people and if we were to insist on them fixing or replacing the microwave they probably would, but I don’t want to do that if they aren’t actually legally responsible for it.
If they’re such lovely people and generous, why wouldn’t you just not be such a nitpick about “legal responsibilities” of which there are none and just replace or fix it yourself, stop trying to save face.
You had literal comment saying £500 is a lot because you literally have nothing left, this is the only reason you made this post.
If it’s my responsibility to replace I’m not going to ask the sellers to go halves, as I would just replace it myself, that’s why I was asking whose responsibility it was.
My finances are absolutely nothing to do with you, but thanks for your concern. You know the phrase, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves? The reason we can afford our house is because we don’t just buy a £500 piece of equipment for no reason.
Clearly we have £500 which we could spend if we wanted to. But I’m not going to spend that if it’s the sellers legal responsibility to replace it. It doesn’t matter if it’s £50 or £5000, it’s a matter of of who is responsible for what.
You made it to do with everyone when you said “we literally have nothing left” so don’t start getting smart, you look stupid doing so.
Ah, my mistake, a £500 one off purchase meant you could afford a £700k house with “literally nothing left” give your head a wobble, I bet you’ve already bartered on the asking price as-well haven’t you?
It’s not the sellers legal responsibility to fix it, a non fault broken appliance before sales completion would be cover by caveat empor (buyer beware) and is reasonable wear and tear for a 4 year old microwave oven, nobody is at fault for the appliance breaking.
You cannot expect an exact brand new replacement for a 2nd hand few years old item that added in reality, sweet nothing to the value of the house.
In future don’t buy things you can’t afford.
Your recent posts show you clearly can’t afford this house and have sunk absolutely everything you’ve got into it savings wise what a silly, silly move on a combined income of less than £140k in a £700k house lmfao.
You’re going to be working well into retirement territory to pay the house off and recoup your savings if you’re early 30’s whilst normal people who live within their means, will be mortgage free a long time before and you’ll have no real progression or room for massive income raises in your roles, that’s why you’re scrimping over a microwave, utter stupidity.
You’ll be like Ian Beale on eastenders soon telling everyone how you’ve got nothing left 🤣
140k income and 700k property?! We've got a similar income & we bought a house at 350k. We could have bought a house for 700k but we didn't want to stretch ourselves especially considering the market at the moment.
Yes, I’ve asked - or if there is a way they can pay a small amount to Bosch to get it repaired with a warranty on the repair. It’s less than 5 years old so it may still have one 🤞🏻
It could have gone pop the day after you completed, then it would have been just your bad luck and you would have had no choice but to either replace it or go without.
They were nice enough to tell you NOW rather than waiting for you to discover it after completion when you would then have had to PROVE that it was no longer functioning when you completed.
I would offer 50/50 on the cost of a new one to be installed. This close to exchange, what are you going to do? Drop out? That means that you have to find a new house and will still be stuck with all your costs to date - is it really worth arguing about a £500 microwave?
It could have done, and it would have been mine then, and my responsibility, as I would have owned it.
The point is I don’t currently own it, I’m meant to be buying it in working order.
I haven’t even approached the sellers yet, what I’m trying to work out is what is the legal basis of this situation and how to approach this without being taken for granted but also not being difficult.
Clearly I’m not going to drop out of buying a lovely house over a microwave, but I also don’t really want to deal with the cost or stress of replacing it immediately after moving if it can be fixed or replaced before we move.
Taking out an old one, taking it to the tip, measuring the space, finding a new one to fit said space, ordering it and fitting it if we can fit it ourselves or paying someone to fit it if we can’t, right after moving house… quite a lot to do when we have other priorities?
If you have exchanged then I believe it’s now your responsibility. Same as if the house was damaged. So you could claim on your insurance if you want not that I would recommend that.
You're in the right ballpark. It's still his responsibility to complete the purchase regardless of the microwave just as if the house was damaged. However, the seller is liable for breach of contract since he can prove (through the seller's admission) that it was working at the time of exchange.
A like new Bosch build in microwave ovens is about £300-400 online, as others have said fitting is as simple as sliding it into existing space, depending on the age you could ask for X amount to replace it but honestly on a 700k property it would be super petty to kick up a stink over it, just eat the cost, a couple of hundred is nothing in the grand scheme of this purchase.
For the time, effort and energy (mentally and emotionally) you have spent on this could have been redirected to just buying a new microwave in Argos for £50. Being stuck on principles is only going to delay completion. For the Seller to source a comparable microwave, get someone round to fit it, then for you to check it’s actually working, then sort out solicitors on both sides (and potentially your lender as they need to be notified of delayed completion), this isn’t worth even thinking about.
The advice you got on here to focus on the practicalities is right. Who cares about the legal position of the microwave when it could cause you a bigger legal issue (delaying completion).
Stubbornness over “it’s their responsibility” “the house comes with a working microwave” isn’t actually helpful to your bigger picture.
First, verify the oven is listed in the fittings and contents form and are transferable. Assuming it is, either the seller should repair or replace the oven with another of the same value as the existing one. If it's an older oven, then it might not be worth much.
If one of the reasons you're buying the house is the high quality appliance, you'd probably be best getting the equivalent sum on completion to replace it yourself
Luckily integral units are a standard size so whilst it’s unfortunate, and not another thing you want to add to your list of costs etc, you should just be able to reorder and plug in a replacement. Thats it. Maybe ask the vendor for dimensions to allow you to order a replacement, and see if it needs fitting or is just a plug in. That’s it. There’s not a lot more you can do now, you’ve exchanged and like everyone else is saying, you don’t want to cock this up over a microwave
Just done the calculations, £500 to replace the microwave, the sale price is £700k so that is less than 0.1% of the cost of the house.
If I was the seller I would give you the £500 off to get the sale through, there is no harm in asking for some money off seeing as you have said you paid full asking price, if they say no I would then just move on.
It’s a microwave. Not a boiler. Even if it isn’t a fuse it’s only just over a hundred quid at b&q for a new one if you’re happy to forgo Bosch. It’s hardly a huge dramatic issue. Don’t sweat it. You’re house sale isn’t going to fall apart coz the microwave isn’t working
I’m not sweating it, eventually someone has finally told me what I asked - and the answer was:
because it’s beyond exchange, they aren’t legally required to fix it as it is legally mine now rather than theirs.
Which means I’m very happy to sort it myself.
You are sweating about it. You’ve come all the way over to the internet to ask a bunch of strangers about a built in microwave instead of just grabbing your car keys and fucking off to b&q and picking up a new one.
I would personally not let it bother you - when you move in just phone domestic and general - they will whack you on a few quid a month repair plan and sort it.
Legally, this is on them to sort. You agreed to buy the property for the condition that it was at exchange - so, they need to repair it, like-for-like, by completion. It's not a big deal, it's a microwave. Offer to pay the difference for them to get a new one installed rather than a second-hand one to show you're not being shitty about it. People are correct down-thread that you don't want to piss them off or start screwing them around but, in reality, this is their problem and their legal obligation - there's no reason for them to be pissy that you've politely requested that they fulfil their side of the agreement.
I don't get some of these comments your perfectly in your right to want them to fix something you considered part of the property and not something you would have to pay or fix straight away. I wouldn't accept a counter microwave but something similar condition and brand. It's irrelevant how much how cost.
And that is why a lot of sellers wouldn't even tell you it broke. You'd then have to prove it was working, which you couldn't, and you'd be up the creek anyway.
Yeah, these comments are ridiculous. It's as if they think OP is being done some kind of favour that the seller is letting them buy their house and OP should be eternally grateful. I've been downvoted to oblivion (and repeatedly, incorrectly) told I'm wrong for stating the law.
If the microwave costs £200 to replace (secondhand) and the house is £700k, the microwave makes up 0.02% of the purchase.
Legally the seller should fix this.
Practically you want the sale through as smoothly as possible and it is not worth rocking the boat to fix this.
If you really want to chase it take them to small claims after moving, but if this is the largest issue when moving you will be in a great position.
Yes, it needs to be completed in the condition it was when you exchanged.
We had similar with an old integrated Miele dishwasher when we bought.
Go through your solicitors and tell them they need to get it repaired as it was part of the value you placed on the kitchen. Also request for the paperwork of the repair so that you can make use of any additional warranty that comes with the repair (although really we requested it to understand if they’d got it professionally done or just bodged it - they were bodgers on many things).
Replace is a grey area - we said to our sellers that we appreciate them not replacing with a new Miele as it was like 10 years old, but that they could replace with brands we approved (premium but not Miele, ie Bosch, Siemens, AEG), or give us an agreed amount in cash and we would add to it and buy what we wanted.
They eventually (as soon as it went through solicitors instead of agent) opted to get the existing appliance repaired (which funnily enough cost them more than the settlement figure we’d offered but I think that’s because the old owner didn’t fancy not having a dishwasher for a few weeks).
Law is on your side.
First, verify the oven is listed in the fittings and contents form and are transferable. Assuming it is, either the seller should repair or replace the oven with another of the same value as the existing one. If it's an older oven, then it might not be worth much.
If one of the reasons you're buying the house is the high quality appliance, you'd probably be best getting the equivalent sum on completion to replace it yourself
Have they checked the high voltage fuse inside or just the plug fuse? There are 5000V or so long glass fuses for the magnetron and they cost pennies, easy to replace too
Legally it's on them. But who knows what kind of stand off this could turn into if both parties decide to get stubborn. If you're willing to explore that rabbit hole then go ahead.
Same happened in my last home, sellers said nothing and we never pursued it. I came to find out that built in microwaves can be terribly unreliable and had a repair guy out several times under warranty for the replacement we bought. It’s very honest of them to own up, in your shoes I’d be happy with contribution towards a new one. Say between £150 and half the price of a replacement.
I am so glad the sellers are decent people. We’ll have a chat with them, if they can get a repair guy out before the move then great, and maybe approach a discussion contribution to a new one. If legally it’s not their responsibility then clearly I’m not going to make them pay!
I have just replaced my in-built microwave with a new one, off-brand. The branded (decent) options were far too expensive. This new microwave looks really good, works well - it's a microwave, as long as it cooks food it works fine? I don't think you need to overthink the branding really.
When the old one (came with the house) broke, I called an appliance repair expert and he told me to just buy a new one because repairs aren't worth it. Don't fall out with the sellers because of a microwave.. just ask if they can throw in a £200 for a new one and be done with it. If they can't, just buy a new/used one for that amount (or less). They're really not luxury objects, any working one will do.
One reason they may have come to you about could be finding out if you are planning to replace the kitchen when you have bought the house. If you were planning on ripping out the kitchen and replacing it and the appliances there would be little point in replacing the existing built in unit at this stage
I think you should deal with it. Getting the sellers backs up now wont do you any favours. If someone got formal and petty I would not go out of my way to do them any favours when leaving.
I would split the cost of a new microwave with the sellers. You can use this as an opportunity to get the one you would prefer. Obviously if the one you chosen is more than an exact replacement you can pay the difference. It may be a crap situation having to pay some money towards it but you’ll get a brand new appliance that is under warranty instead. It could have been worse and the microwave went now instead of a week after you moved in when it’s your responsibility to replace it.
If you are near West Yorkshire, I've got a built in one that I took out of my kitchen last year, that you can have. Been meaning to free cycle it for months.
Good God, what an easy life you must lead to spend that much time, effort and energy on fretting over a bloody microwave!
I'd like to live in your world!
Wow, buying a new house and punishing the sellers by being petty about a microwave they wernt obliged to tell you about. If someone queried me on that, and i wasnt in a rush, id genuinely consider pulling out. This country...
Dog, the microwave is either new in which case it's under warranty and they would have given your the details or it's not in which case it's not worth that much anyway, and you can either get it fixed or put in a new one. You've just spent close to a million bucks, are you really wanting to cause everyone a huge hassle over a microwave? You can get one for a couple of quid used. My house i found out the bathroom sink wasn't connected to the plumbing and had been filling up my foundations with manky water, the boiler packed in a few weeks after moving in, the tiling was so bad it gave me epilepsy and a mouse had chewed through the main power line and fried itself in a manner that created a potentially deadly booby trap... It's all part of the rich tapestry of home ownership that is despite it's intricacies a hundred billion times better than renting. Consider yourself blessed to have a nice home. Plus I haven't owned a microwave in 20 years, maybe it'll get you in better coming habits not to have one
My understanding is that what you are buying is the house - anything that comes with it is an added bonus. Fixtures and fittings form is an FYI. I don’t think they have the obligation to replace it for you..
Relax. A pack of 10 of 13A rated fuse is £2.18 at Screwfix right now. It's a matter of pulling the microwave out (perhaps need to remove a few mounting screws) and replacing the fuse. If its connected through a fused spur switch it's even easier, no need to pull out the microwave. Turn off mains power before doing anything and you'll be fine.
Oh, and replacing a brand new microwave isn't expensive either. You're going to be in for a shock as a homeowner, if you're kicking up a fuss about an appliance!
We had a fridge and freezer included in the deal when we purchased out last house which had been rented. Except it wasn't left, thier mum and dad took them when emptying the house. Solicitor told us to move on as doing anything about it would cost us more than getting replacements. Assume this would be the same. Seller can choose.to be nice but it's likely if they do nothing, it won't be worth you chasing up.
I agree with what someone said: they were transparent and it’s just a microwave.
When we bought, a few months in and the electric shower broke, then it was the turn of the washing machine, followed by dishwasher, oven and the electric hob.
You will eventually have to renew a lot in the house
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Hey: Firstly nice they told you, they could have just pretended it was fine. I have a built in microwave, they come with a warranty. If outside if warranty you can still contact Bosch and get a quote to fix it - if it is the fuse an electrician could do it. If it’s the magnetron (the part of the microwave that creates microwaves) you need Bosch - so if it isn’t turning on at all that might turnout to be good news. Do not fall out with the sellers while they are still in the property at all costs because they can fuck with you, and it sounds like they are trying to be transparent, so I’d advise keeping your communication positive.
That’s the struggle, it looks like a new microwave oven to replace it ‘like for like’ is £500, which I understand isn’t a lot when we’re buying a £700k house, but also is a lot when we are buying a £700k house because we have nothing left 😂. We want to stay on good terms with them and the solicitor side of things hasn’t been easy (various difficult legal hoops to jump through for them, which will have cost money!), so I don’t want to be difficult, but equally don’t want to be shafted.
Just to be clear, “like for like” is not a new microwave. It’s a used microwave in a similar condition that’s still working.
Yes but is ‘like for like’ the same brand and the same fitting?
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OP stated: "We exchanged last week" - there is no "killing this deal" to be considered here OP has exchanged on the house and the fixtures and fittings agreed contained a microwave, therefore OP can expect a microwave of the same standard as was present when the contracts were signed The question is whether OP wants to make an issue of it and risk the sellers being dicks, not whether OP pulls out
I mean could the sellers also justifiably find a second hand model from a equally reputable manufacturer? Surely it just needs to be in working order, equivalent brand and not older than the prior model?
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm referring to when I said > therefore OP can expect a microwave of the same standard as was present when the contracts were signed It doesn't have to be identical, just of a comparable standard to the one that was there when they signed the contract Either way nobody's gonna be able to back out of the sale because of this. If the sellers tried then OP can compel them to sell, if OP tried then the sellers can keep OP's presumably-£70k deposit
I’m not a legal expert but using your car analogy if they were selling you a Ferrari and it crashed they couldn’t try and swap it for a Toyota Corolla. They could swap a blue Corolla for a grey one from the same year, and unless color was of the essence for your transaction that would be ok. So they don’t have to swap for the same Bosch model but brand new. They can get a used microwave of another brand with similar functionality and that would be ok.
Thanks - so it would still need to be a built in microwave with an oven function etc. I don’t care about the brand I just would like it to have the same functionality.
You can definitely insist on a similar microwave, comparable functionality and fitted in the same way as the previous one You might be able to insist it's the same brand and a similar model (within reason, eg if that one is discontinued and unavailable) But realistically it's probably simplest to just ask for £200 compensation and put that towards a new microwave yourself
I’d think so. Your solicitor would be best placed to comment. I don’t know the intricacies of how this is handled on the legal side, but our sellers ended up with no washer as their sellers took it.. so this stuff happens unfortunately. Just being honest here, but if I was your seller and you were taking a hard stance on this I’d ask my solicitor if I can drop the price by £100 and call it a day. Just less hassle with everything else happening.
It's a second hand microwave, utterly unimportant, offer £200 as a compensation number and move on.
If I sold you a TV for £700 on finance with a £100 deposit then you noticed it was actually £700.05, and you had to pay the 5p upfront, you'd still buy it right?
That's a bit of a false analogy. For one thing it would be £0.50 not £0.05 in your 1/1000th example, but in any case that's just not how it works Like I appreciate what you're saying in terms of it's a very small amount in proportion to the overall purchase... but a TV is not a house and £500 is not 50p, nor does someone finance a £700 TV at £2.50/month over 30 years £500 to someone who's just thrown their resources into buying a house (even an expensive house) is still a fair chunk of cash. £500 is not a negligible amount of money for people to just ignore I mean, even with your 5p/50 analogy suggesting that it's a negligible sum, I assume you don't consider £500 to be so negligible that you'll be offering to buy OP a new microwave, will you? If you wouldn't be willing to front the £500 yourself then comparing it to 5p to suggest that OP is somehow being ridiculous is, frankly, a nonsensical argument. It isn't 5p, it's £500 and I think 99.9% of those reading this would care about losing £500 unnecessarily
No, because I would be pissed off at the false advertising.
I'd save the energy for real problems personally
And I’d be saving £700.05 and not dealing with someone who wants to overcharge 🙄
You still wouldn’t have a TV. Not sure that finding a house to buy is quite as easy as finding a TV either. But you’d have made your point, stood your ground, cut your nose to spite your face, etc.
If your children are now adults do they still speak to you?
OP can’t work out why they don’t visit at Christmas.
No.
So if you crashed your car and you were given an inferior one that was the same age but clearly not the same make, this would be ok? I’m confused about what ‘like for like’ means.
Yes. Like for like means similar, not identical. If you crash your car they aren't going to pay out enough to get a new one, they pay what its worth at the time.
Yes, I get that. But replacing a built in microwave with a counter top one isn’t like for like?
I'd be fine with it being the same age and make but having a different brand of tires on it. The house is the car. The microwave is the tires. You're intending to put the whole purchase in jeopardy over the brand of a microwave.
Crashing your car is a completely irrelevant analogy. You asked for conveyancing advice. In conveyancing, if a person has said an appliance is included in the sale and in working order, they have a duty to make sure if it breaks they fix it or replace with a separate appliance in working order. That doesn’t mean you get a brand new microwave oven with bells and whistles. It just means they need to replace it with something functional.
But does it have to have the same functionality? As in, it’s a microwave oven so it does both, do they have to replace it (if it *is* their responsibility, which doesn’t seem to be clear based on other comments) with one that does the same thing, or just a bog standard counter top microwave?
replacing old for new is not considered like for like replacement, this is used microwave so all you are entitled to is another used microwave of similar age and wear.
Similar age, wear, fitting and make? Or is the fitting and make not important when considering like for like? I’m just trying to work out how to value it
different brand but similar quality and functionality will also be acceptable, but you can’t realistically expect new appliance. best would be to agree on some cash equivalent compensation, eg. £200-£300
Thank you, this is what I’m leaning towards. I’ll have a chat with them - I think my suggestion will be asking whether they can get Bosch/a local firm to come to see if it’s repairable at their cost, and if it isn’t repairable, then we can split the cost of a new one. Hopefully they’ll be amenable to that.
But like for like would be a used microwave. 😉
> but also is a lot when we are buying a £700k house because we have nothing left 😂. Sounds like you shouldn't have bought a house that expensive if you can't even afford a microwave replacement after purchasing it. Living on the edge is risky and ultimately expensive.
Can't wait to see what other posts OP makes about things in the house needing fixed/replaced in the coming months
If a mortgage approved it then they can afford it. What's it with redditors telling everyone they can't afford a house because they don't have x10 the property value in their pockets?
You see it every time. Most people don’t have £500 on the spot randomly for a microwave. A lot of people leave things and save up. Not everyone can afford to fix everything straight away.
You see the crying with laughter emoji? Do you think maybe things are said in jest? I don’t think it matters whether the item costs £5, £50, £500 or £5000- the question is who is responsible for ensuring it works/replacing it? Maybe you might be footloose and fancy free with your cash, but I am not. I am careful with money and if it isn’t my responsibility to replace it then I would like to ensure I am not out of pocket unnecessarily. I don’t see why this is such an alien concept.
>. I am careful with money This doesn't square with your statement you're buying a 700K house and will have nothing left when the purchase is complete. What are you going to do when the boiler craps out? Shower leaks? Fence blows down? It's the fucking microwave which broke. It's a big bag of nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Crying. With. Laughter. Emoji. Said in jest.
So just to be clear: you weren't being truthful when you said that you have nothing left after the 700k house purchase?
Just to be clear, I was exaggerating, which is entirely an acceptable thing to do and was indicated by the crying with laughter emoji.
Well, use some of that something you do have left to replace the microwave :)
Life just doesn’t function this way. Who is responsible is irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. They been nice to you, just offer 200 discount as someone suggested and move on We’re all conscious how we spend our money. You know what costs waaay more than a used crappy microwave? Restarting the buying process all over again
Yeah! I agree! Fuck the buyer! The seller should've just said nothing. After all who wants to be out of pocket unnecessarily?
If you are worried about a £500 appliance when you are about to buy a house for £700k, you need to reassess your finances. It's a drop in the bucket. And shouldn't your conveyancing solicitor know if the sellers are obliged to sell the house with a functioning microwave?
I’m sorry, but I think you need a bit of a shake to wake up to reality. This is a non-issue. Appliances break, you do without them for a bit and then you replace them, welcome to home ownership. I think if I had someone insist I replaced A MICROWAVE for them I’d just find another buyer out of spite, you sound incredibly difficult to deal with. And if you have nothing after buying the house I’m afraid that’s a you problem.
It’s just a microwave and they told you about it. I’m sure that’s not the reason why you bought the place.
What are you talking about. Of course it is you don't spend 3/4 of a million and not have a bloody microwave
I bought the house including the microwave, which was working on the day(s) we viewed and when we exchanged. Whilst you may not deem it important, it is a fixture/fitting that is included and should come in good working order - as it was when we agreed to buy the property. It is ‘just a microwave’, but my question is who is legally responsible for what. We offered full asking price, have not negotiated on anything that came up in the survey, have a list of things that need moderately urgent attention from the survey. I’m not trying to be difficult but equally sorting out a new microwave oven (which is built in so would need to be replaced with a built in one) when I’ve just moved house wasn’t really in my plans.
Buy a counter microwave and save up to replace the Bosch another time.
Of course we can do that, but my question isn’t ’what practical advice can you give’, my question is : I’m buying a house which includes working appliances, as per all the legal documents we have been provided with. One of those appliances is no longer working, who is legally responsible to ensure that it is in working order or replaced with a working order one? I don’t think it’s that unreasonable a question, the legal documents are there for a reason?
These sorts of buyers is why selling a house is a nightmare.
How dare someone question what is a legal responsibility through a legal process 😐
Na you're just petty..the downvotes on all your comments speak volumes. Go and be a Karen all you like you're not buying my house. Why are you even asking on Reddit when you have paid for a solicitor?
I wasn’t going to bother a solicitor if the resounding answer is that it’s my responsibility post exchange. But nobody on this sub actually seems to know the actual answer despite this being a housing sub, so I have now asked the solicitor.
"bother the solicitor" is it bothering if you paid for their services? Willing to go full Karen over a microwave but won't drop an email to your solicitor. Strange person.
I’ve not gone full Karen, I’ve asked for advice before doing anything?
>I wasn’t going to bother a solicitor if the resounding answer is that it’s my responsibility post exchange. It is literally their job to answer this question. It's why you're paying them.
You’re mental
If you want a legal answer, ask your solicitor. That's what you pay them for.
Are you completely sure the appliances are guaranteed working? I've only ever seen them sold as is, but then I've only been looking at a lower end of the market.
No, that’s why I’m asking. They worked when we viewed the house (I checked!)
What kind of twat are you that checks a fucking microwave during a house viewing? That says it all really.
What kind of idiot are you who makes the most expensive purchase of their life and doesn’t check that all the fixtures and fittings work?
I get your point, but if a non-functioning microwave is the worst issue you have when you move then you should be counting your blessings. As long as they replace it with a working one then legally they are fine.
Is that not what OP specifically asked?
Mate, you don't even know on a viewing if that microwave is going to be included or excluded. Are you seriously going to try and sit here and say that if the seller marked it as excluded that you'd have walked away from the transaction? After all those solicitor and and survey costs? Or that you'd threaten a price reduction because you offered assuming it was included? Get the fuck out of here.
We were told? It’s a built in microwave?
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If it were to give up the ghost after I bought the house, it would be my responsibility. I totally get that. But that isn’t the situation we’re in. Like for like will be second hand absolutely, but would it be same make and ensuring it is fitted/fits the space perfectly? Clearly a second hand microwave is like £20 on Facebook marketplace, but I would have thought that isn’t ‘like for like’… you wouldn’t be happy if your BMW was replaced by a Vauxhall corsa. They’re both cars, but that’s where the similarities end.
If I was moving out, I'd stick anything similar that worked/fitted in the hole to satisfy the contract, even if it came from Facebook for £20, it's not a new microwave and I wouldn't replace it with new
It wouldn’t be a built in microwave for £20 from marketplace, so that wouldn’t like for like- that’s my point.
It's broken after exchange therefore it's caveat empor, not the sellers responsibility, but yours. Bad luck, yes, but no reason to justify your attitude, you sound like a delight.
Thank you, that’s what I was asking, whether it was their responsibility or if I was wrong. I’m happy to admit when I’m wrong - I just assumed that things had to be kept in good working order between exchange and completion, because otherwise a seller could completely trash a house and you’d have no legal recourse. Anyway if it is our responsibility then we will just get a new one.
I'm fairly sure this is the correct answer OP but ultimately you pay for a conveyancing solicitor for just this kind of eventuality. I would check with them just to make sure.
Thanks, I was just trying to gauge whether to bother with asking the solicitor as if there was a resounding ‘YES this is absolutely the sellers responsibitliy’ or ‘No this is absolutely your responsibility’ from Reddit, I wouldn’t bother asking. Instead people seem to be obsessing over the practicalities rather than the legal side of things, so I will just ask my solicitor.
Good luck and enjoy the new house! Next time you could try the UKLegalAdvice subreddit, it's heavily moderated lol
I did, but didn’t get straight answers there either. It seems to be that nobody really knows (except I suspect that you and u/Emergency-Room-5484 are correct)
I'm completely sure that it wasn't the correct answer. See other comments if you genuinely want to know why.
That's not actually the correct answer. Caveat emptor doesn't apply when a good is listed on the fixtures and fittings form and working at the time of exchange. Caveat emptor is like where you don't get an electrical survey and find out when you move in that you need £3,000 of electrical work. Very different scenario.
Your comment about the sellers could trash the house after exchange is why, as the buyer, you have to have house insurance in place from the exchange of contracts. As the buyer you are responsible for the house from exchange.
Tell me you're not a lawyer without telling me you're not a lawyer. If it broke before exchange you'd be right. After exchange, there's very much a claim against the seller.
It’s abit petty, things go wrong with appliances, it’s just bad timing.
Posts like this is one of the reasons I keep coming back to this sub. It reminds me that these people live amongst us. Seriously OP, get a grip.
It’s the sense of entitlement that gets me every time!
Too fucking right! Matey walked around a house viewing turning a god damn microwave on. Wtf?
They don't have to replace it with a brand new one. It might be easier to just ask for a payment equivalent to the value of a used one then put that towards whichever one you want to buy. But it might not be worth doing that, they've not tried to be shady about it and it's just one of those things.
It’s a built in appliance so surely we also have to factor in the cost of fitting something. Further how do you go about valuing a used built-in appliance? Clearly you can go onto Facebook Marketplace and buy a bog standard microwave second hand for pennies, but this is a built-in Bosch microwave oven so not as easy to value?
Say it cost £379 and it should last on average 8 years, if it's 4 years old then it's only worth £190 (that's on the generous side of things, by the way - depreciation isn't usually a straight line). If it's 8 years old well then you were probably going to need to buy a new one soon anyway. You're buying something for hundreds of thousands of pounds, is it worth worrying about a couple of hundred quid? Installation is a normal plug and sliding it in.
Straight line depreciation is most likely to be the way this would be calculated if this were to ever go to court (if it were, in some universe, worth going to court over this). OP is unlikely to sell it used so it's value on a curve wouldn't be relevant.
Built-in microwaves are really simple to fit, as long as you replace like for like with size. It's just a microwave that slides into a slot. A Bosch microwave might not be cheap (though it depends on model) but they could literally go down Currys and swap in the cheapest one that will fit.
>but they could literally go down Currys and swap in the cheapest one that will fit Not legally, they couldn't.
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They aren't that hard to fit - most just slide in/out and use a socket at the back. A used one is probably around 50 - 150 quid, so I don't there there is much loss of value.
It’s a microwave oven rather than a bog standard microwave, and a replacement would need to fit the space perfectly, so I don’t think it’s as simple as saying a used one is xxx price, as we would be limited in what we could actually get in that situation.
I doubt legally this would be the case. Everything has a monetary value. I reckon even with fitting the value of a (assumption) quite used built-in microwave is pretty small, likely under 200 quid. Ultimately if the seller won't fix, the you would be left with the choice of trying to sue for a sum like this (definitely not worth it) to just eat the loss as bad luck. Hopefully, the seller will fix and this is moot. This sort of reminds me of a frequent post type on r/LegalAdviceUK where someone buys something at auction that they claim is an amazing bargain (say worth 1000, but paid 20). The item is lost or stolen. They want the 1000, but LA informs that they are only entitled to the 20 quid since that was the market value of the transaction. Also a bit like when landlords want the money for a brand new replacement for a 5-year old (and now depreciated) item that a tenant broke. Same story.
They're a standard size, just like built in ovens and integrated dishwashers.
Yes, I presumed so, but I’ve also seen some very dodgy replacements in my time with very obvious gaps so I would want to be sure it does fit perfectly. It’s a microwave with an oven function so I don’t know if that makes a difference.
If you’re buying a £700k house, why haven’t you got the money to repair/replace a microwave oven lmao, if it would have gone pop after the 1st of March, it would be your issue it’s a few years old, it’s not worth the same money it was brand new why should the old owners pay for a whole brand new one plus fitting? It’s a few hundred pound, replace it when you move in and move on. Just to add your comment of you’ve bought a £700k house and have literally nothing left kinda reads like I couldn’t afford this house but I bought it anyway, why would you buy a house with no reserve funds or any money to fix mishaps?
>If you’re buying a £700k house, why haven’t you got the money to repair/replace a microwave oven lmao If they're selling a £700k house then why hasn't the seller got the money to repair/replace a microwave oven lmao
It’s reasonable wear and tear and not the sellers issue, why should they replace a item at risk of natural wear and tear in a house they have sold, if it would have happened 15 days later, the buyer would have had the same issue ffs 🤦♂️ This is pathetic beyond reason.
I would agree with this and see this all the time now wrt to house buying and selling. Seems that everyone has a gripe with either the seller, or buyer, that they want to then sue the £uck out of rather than trying to discuss the issue like grown adults. Has OP said to the sellers..."Can we go 50/50 on a brand new microwave?" No. It's straight to they have to pay, or repair. End of.
It’s a classic case of someone chucking every scrap of money they’ve got at a house they cannot afford with no reserve and it will come back to haunt them that’s why they’re worried about £500, it’s absolutely stupid.
I have already said I’m not worried about £500, my point is I’m not willing to spend it if it isn’t my legal responsibility to do so. If it is my responsibility to do so, then I will of course do it. I think my original post was very clear, I was asking if it is their *responsibility* or not. Our sellers are lovely people and if we were to insist on them fixing or replacing the microwave they probably would, but I don’t want to do that if they aren’t actually legally responsible for it.
If they’re such lovely people and generous, why wouldn’t you just not be such a nitpick about “legal responsibilities” of which there are none and just replace or fix it yourself, stop trying to save face. You had literal comment saying £500 is a lot because you literally have nothing left, this is the only reason you made this post.
Why are there no legal responsibilities?
See this is all you want, to be free of spending money on a home you can’t afford, go ask someone else 🤷♂️🤦♂️
No I’d just like an answer to the question I asked, not an answer to a question I didn’t ask.
If it’s my responsibility to replace I’m not going to ask the sellers to go halves, as I would just replace it myself, that’s why I was asking whose responsibility it was.
Maybe they are selling because they can’t afford it?
Maybe they're upsizing? We have no idea. Maybe that lack of knowledge is why we shouldn't act like judgemental cunts.
Yawn.
But judgmental cunt is basically my middle name!
My finances are absolutely nothing to do with you, but thanks for your concern. You know the phrase, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves? The reason we can afford our house is because we don’t just buy a £500 piece of equipment for no reason. Clearly we have £500 which we could spend if we wanted to. But I’m not going to spend that if it’s the sellers legal responsibility to replace it. It doesn’t matter if it’s £50 or £5000, it’s a matter of of who is responsible for what.
You made it to do with everyone when you said “we literally have nothing left” so don’t start getting smart, you look stupid doing so. Ah, my mistake, a £500 one off purchase meant you could afford a £700k house with “literally nothing left” give your head a wobble, I bet you’ve already bartered on the asking price as-well haven’t you? It’s not the sellers legal responsibility to fix it, a non fault broken appliance before sales completion would be cover by caveat empor (buyer beware) and is reasonable wear and tear for a 4 year old microwave oven, nobody is at fault for the appliance breaking. You cannot expect an exact brand new replacement for a 2nd hand few years old item that added in reality, sweet nothing to the value of the house. In future don’t buy things you can’t afford. Your recent posts show you clearly can’t afford this house and have sunk absolutely everything you’ve got into it savings wise what a silly, silly move on a combined income of less than £140k in a £700k house lmfao. You’re going to be working well into retirement territory to pay the house off and recoup your savings if you’re early 30’s whilst normal people who live within their means, will be mortgage free a long time before and you’ll have no real progression or room for massive income raises in your roles, that’s why you’re scrimping over a microwave, utter stupidity. You’ll be like Ian Beale on eastenders soon telling everyone how you’ve got nothing left 🤣
[удалено]
140k income and £500k in equity, so a £200k mortgage. We’re fine, thank you.
140k income and 700k property?! We've got a similar income & we bought a house at 350k. We could have bought a house for 700k but we didn't want to stretch ourselves especially considering the market at the moment.
Very petty way of looking at this indeed
May be worth asking if it's in warranty? My family home had w built in microwave and it had like 5 year guarantee or something
Yes, I’ve asked - or if there is a way they can pay a small amount to Bosch to get it repaired with a warranty on the repair. It’s less than 5 years old so it may still have one 🤞🏻
This is hilarious
It could have gone pop the day after you completed, then it would have been just your bad luck and you would have had no choice but to either replace it or go without. They were nice enough to tell you NOW rather than waiting for you to discover it after completion when you would then have had to PROVE that it was no longer functioning when you completed. I would offer 50/50 on the cost of a new one to be installed. This close to exchange, what are you going to do? Drop out? That means that you have to find a new house and will still be stuck with all your costs to date - is it really worth arguing about a £500 microwave?
It could have done, and it would have been mine then, and my responsibility, as I would have owned it. The point is I don’t currently own it, I’m meant to be buying it in working order. I haven’t even approached the sellers yet, what I’m trying to work out is what is the legal basis of this situation and how to approach this without being taken for granted but also not being difficult. Clearly I’m not going to drop out of buying a lovely house over a microwave, but I also don’t really want to deal with the cost or stress of replacing it immediately after moving if it can be fixed or replaced before we move.
>but I also don’t really want to deal with the cost or stress of replacing it immediately Buying a new microwave isn't stressful.
Taking out an old one, taking it to the tip, measuring the space, finding a new one to fit said space, ordering it and fitting it if we can fit it ourselves or paying someone to fit it if we can’t, right after moving house… quite a lot to do when we have other priorities?
>quite a lot to do Fuck me. You're in for a real shock when it comes time to install a new shower unit or flooring.
But I wouldn’t be doing that as soon as I moved into a new house?
What percentage of your monthly income have you set aside for your maintenance budget?
£1k a month goes into savings. I don’t have a ‘maintenance budget’ as such but we just use the cash we save as and when we need it.
Yep. I figured. Here's a tip. Establish a maintenance budget. You'll need it.
Oh, will that be sorted by the time we complete?
Yes this is actually a good response!
If you have exchanged then I believe it’s now your responsibility. Same as if the house was damaged. So you could claim on your insurance if you want not that I would recommend that.
Thanks, that’s what I was asking. I have no issues replacing it if it’s my responsibility!
You're in the right ballpark. It's still his responsibility to complete the purchase regardless of the microwave just as if the house was damaged. However, the seller is liable for breach of contract since he can prove (through the seller's admission) that it was working at the time of exchange.
A like new Bosch build in microwave ovens is about £300-400 online, as others have said fitting is as simple as sliding it into existing space, depending on the age you could ask for X amount to replace it but honestly on a 700k property it would be super petty to kick up a stink over it, just eat the cost, a couple of hundred is nothing in the grand scheme of this purchase.
For the time, effort and energy (mentally and emotionally) you have spent on this could have been redirected to just buying a new microwave in Argos for £50. Being stuck on principles is only going to delay completion. For the Seller to source a comparable microwave, get someone round to fit it, then for you to check it’s actually working, then sort out solicitors on both sides (and potentially your lender as they need to be notified of delayed completion), this isn’t worth even thinking about. The advice you got on here to focus on the practicalities is right. Who cares about the legal position of the microwave when it could cause you a bigger legal issue (delaying completion). Stubbornness over “it’s their responsibility” “the house comes with a working microwave” isn’t actually helpful to your bigger picture.
If you can find me a fitted microwave oven for £50 I’d be very happy to buy it.
This. Literally. Just. Underlines. You. Missed. The. ENTIRE. Point. Good luck when you eventually get into your house at some point in April…..
Was it included in the fixtures and fittings form? If not they don't HAVE to replace it, depends on how they feel. If it was then they do.
Yes, it was.
Well that answers the question then. They could offer the cost difference, but that is your choice to make.
First, verify the oven is listed in the fittings and contents form and are transferable. Assuming it is, either the seller should repair or replace the oven with another of the same value as the existing one. If it's an older oven, then it might not be worth much. If one of the reasons you're buying the house is the high quality appliance, you'd probably be best getting the equivalent sum on completion to replace it yourself
Don't risk irritating the seller and potentially losing the house because of a faulty microwave
No, absolutely not. I just don’t want to be taken for a mug, but also don’t want to take advantage of the sellers if it isn’t their responsibility.
They've already exchanged, the seller can't pull out.
Luckily integral units are a standard size so whilst it’s unfortunate, and not another thing you want to add to your list of costs etc, you should just be able to reorder and plug in a replacement. Thats it. Maybe ask the vendor for dimensions to allow you to order a replacement, and see if it needs fitting or is just a plug in. That’s it. There’s not a lot more you can do now, you’ve exchanged and like everyone else is saying, you don’t want to cock this up over a microwave
Just done the calculations, £500 to replace the microwave, the sale price is £700k so that is less than 0.1% of the cost of the house. If I was the seller I would give you the £500 off to get the sale through, there is no harm in asking for some money off seeing as you have said you paid full asking price, if they say no I would then just move on.
If I was the seller I would have just bought a new one anyway. Why risk upsetting the people who are giving me £700k over the price of a microwave.
It’s a microwave. Not a boiler. Even if it isn’t a fuse it’s only just over a hundred quid at b&q for a new one if you’re happy to forgo Bosch. It’s hardly a huge dramatic issue. Don’t sweat it. You’re house sale isn’t going to fall apart coz the microwave isn’t working
I’m not sweating it, eventually someone has finally told me what I asked - and the answer was: because it’s beyond exchange, they aren’t legally required to fix it as it is legally mine now rather than theirs. Which means I’m very happy to sort it myself.
You are sweating about it. You’ve come all the way over to the internet to ask a bunch of strangers about a built in microwave instead of just grabbing your car keys and fucking off to b&q and picking up a new one.
yeah, you seem very happy about it from the comments you leave.
I would personally not let it bother you - when you move in just phone domestic and general - they will whack you on a few quid a month repair plan and sort it.
Legally, this is on them to sort. You agreed to buy the property for the condition that it was at exchange - so, they need to repair it, like-for-like, by completion. It's not a big deal, it's a microwave. Offer to pay the difference for them to get a new one installed rather than a second-hand one to show you're not being shitty about it. People are correct down-thread that you don't want to piss them off or start screwing them around but, in reality, this is their problem and their legal obligation - there's no reason for them to be pissy that you've politely requested that they fulfil their side of the agreement.
Thank you, this is what I was looking for. I get it’s just a microwave, but I also don’t want to be taken for a mug!
It might be what you’re looking for, but that doesn’t mean it’s the correct answer. (Hint - it isn’t)
Why isn’t it? What is the point of having a fixtures and fittings legal document if it can just be wrong with no legal implications?
I don't get some of these comments your perfectly in your right to want them to fix something you considered part of the property and not something you would have to pay or fix straight away. I wouldn't accept a counter microwave but something similar condition and brand. It's irrelevant how much how cost.
And that is why a lot of sellers wouldn't even tell you it broke. You'd then have to prove it was working, which you couldn't, and you'd be up the creek anyway.
Yeah, these comments are ridiculous. It's as if they think OP is being done some kind of favour that the seller is letting them buy their house and OP should be eternally grateful. I've been downvoted to oblivion (and repeatedly, incorrectly) told I'm wrong for stating the law.
If the microwave costs £200 to replace (secondhand) and the house is £700k, the microwave makes up 0.02% of the purchase. Legally the seller should fix this. Practically you want the sale through as smoothly as possible and it is not worth rocking the boat to fix this. If you really want to chase it take them to small claims after moving, but if this is the largest issue when moving you will be in a great position.
Yes, it needs to be completed in the condition it was when you exchanged. We had similar with an old integrated Miele dishwasher when we bought. Go through your solicitors and tell them they need to get it repaired as it was part of the value you placed on the kitchen. Also request for the paperwork of the repair so that you can make use of any additional warranty that comes with the repair (although really we requested it to understand if they’d got it professionally done or just bodged it - they were bodgers on many things). Replace is a grey area - we said to our sellers that we appreciate them not replacing with a new Miele as it was like 10 years old, but that they could replace with brands we approved (premium but not Miele, ie Bosch, Siemens, AEG), or give us an agreed amount in cash and we would add to it and buy what we wanted. They eventually (as soon as it went through solicitors instead of agent) opted to get the existing appliance repaired (which funnily enough cost them more than the settlement figure we’d offered but I think that’s because the old owner didn’t fancy not having a dishwasher for a few weeks). Law is on your side.
First, verify the oven is listed in the fittings and contents form and are transferable. Assuming it is, either the seller should repair or replace the oven with another of the same value as the existing one. If it's an older oven, then it might not be worth much. If one of the reasons you're buying the house is the high quality appliance, you'd probably be best getting the equivalent sum on completion to replace it yourself
Have they checked the high voltage fuse inside or just the plug fuse? There are 5000V or so long glass fuses for the magnetron and they cost pennies, easy to replace too
Interesting, I suspect just the plug fuse but I will check - I didn’t know there was another fuse. Thank you!
Legally it's on them. But who knows what kind of stand off this could turn into if both parties decide to get stubborn. If you're willing to explore that rabbit hole then go ahead.
Oh yes totally not planning on being stubborn about it, just trying to gauge what expectations would be reasonable.
Same happened in my last home, sellers said nothing and we never pursued it. I came to find out that built in microwaves can be terribly unreliable and had a repair guy out several times under warranty for the replacement we bought. It’s very honest of them to own up, in your shoes I’d be happy with contribution towards a new one. Say between £150 and half the price of a replacement.
I am so glad the sellers are decent people. We’ll have a chat with them, if they can get a repair guy out before the move then great, and maybe approach a discussion contribution to a new one. If legally it’s not their responsibility then clearly I’m not going to make them pay!
I have just replaced my in-built microwave with a new one, off-brand. The branded (decent) options were far too expensive. This new microwave looks really good, works well - it's a microwave, as long as it cooks food it works fine? I don't think you need to overthink the branding really. When the old one (came with the house) broke, I called an appliance repair expert and he told me to just buy a new one because repairs aren't worth it. Don't fall out with the sellers because of a microwave.. just ask if they can throw in a £200 for a new one and be done with it. If they can't, just buy a new/used one for that amount (or less). They're really not luxury objects, any working one will do.
There is usually a fuse inside the microwave oven in addition to the one in the plug. Has that been checked?
Yes someone else mentioned this; I’ll check!
Is it the microwave that's dead or the mica plate filter inside the machine that needs replaced?
Not a clue!
One reason they may have come to you about could be finding out if you are planning to replace the kitchen when you have bought the house. If you were planning on ripping out the kitchen and replacing it and the appliances there would be little point in replacing the existing built in unit at this stage
I think you should deal with it. Getting the sellers backs up now wont do you any favours. If someone got formal and petty I would not go out of my way to do them any favours when leaving.
I would split the cost of a new microwave with the sellers. You can use this as an opportunity to get the one you would prefer. Obviously if the one you chosen is more than an exact replacement you can pay the difference. It may be a crap situation having to pay some money towards it but you’ll get a brand new appliance that is under warranty instead. It could have been worse and the microwave went now instead of a week after you moved in when it’s your responsibility to replace it.
If you are near West Yorkshire, I've got a built in one that I took out of my kitchen last year, that you can have. Been meaning to free cycle it for months.
Good God, what an easy life you must lead to spend that much time, effort and energy on fretting over a bloody microwave! I'd like to live in your world!
Maybe just talk to them rather than working yourself up on Reddit
Wow, buying a new house and punishing the sellers by being petty about a microwave they wernt obliged to tell you about. If someone queried me on that, and i wasnt in a rush, id genuinely consider pulling out. This country...
Dog, the microwave is either new in which case it's under warranty and they would have given your the details or it's not in which case it's not worth that much anyway, and you can either get it fixed or put in a new one. You've just spent close to a million bucks, are you really wanting to cause everyone a huge hassle over a microwave? You can get one for a couple of quid used. My house i found out the bathroom sink wasn't connected to the plumbing and had been filling up my foundations with manky water, the boiler packed in a few weeks after moving in, the tiling was so bad it gave me epilepsy and a mouse had chewed through the main power line and fried itself in a manner that created a potentially deadly booby trap... It's all part of the rich tapestry of home ownership that is despite it's intricacies a hundred billion times better than renting. Consider yourself blessed to have a nice home. Plus I haven't owned a microwave in 20 years, maybe it'll get you in better coming habits not to have one
OP got a lot of -, his karma also getting popped 😳
My understanding is that what you are buying is the house - anything that comes with it is an added bonus. Fixtures and fittings form is an FYI. I don’t think they have the obligation to replace it for you..
Relax. A pack of 10 of 13A rated fuse is £2.18 at Screwfix right now. It's a matter of pulling the microwave out (perhaps need to remove a few mounting screws) and replacing the fuse. If its connected through a fused spur switch it's even easier, no need to pull out the microwave. Turn off mains power before doing anything and you'll be fine. Oh, and replacing a brand new microwave isn't expensive either. You're going to be in for a shock as a homeowner, if you're kicking up a fuss about an appliance!
We had a fridge and freezer included in the deal when we purchased out last house which had been rented. Except it wasn't left, thier mum and dad took them when emptying the house. Solicitor told us to move on as doing anything about it would cost us more than getting replacements. Assume this would be the same. Seller can choose.to be nice but it's likely if they do nothing, it won't be worth you chasing up.
Cheapskate
Just buy a new microwave?
There are many words I'd like to say to OP All of which will get me down voted to -100 at least.
I agree with what someone said: they were transparent and it’s just a microwave. When we bought, a few months in and the electric shower broke, then it was the turn of the washing machine, followed by dishwasher, oven and the electric hob. You will eventually have to renew a lot in the house