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Some people in later life spend their final few decades in flats because it can make sense being able to just live and have a management company run exterior and communal areas.
That’s my situation. I love living in a flat because a lot of the responsibility is off my shoulders. I also live in a city where everything I need is on my doorstep. I’ve had the forever home and really don’t miss it at all.
You pay through the nose for a lot of things you can do yourself (transport, food, entertainment) Lots of people find value in different things to you or I.
Many new build houses now have hefty service charges and they do next to nothing apart from cut communal grass. It’s the way the housing market is going.
But you pay for these things anyway?
Obviously a service charge has more potential to go wrong, but a roof replacement in a house still costs you anyway which people always seem to miss.
In a well managed block you would also not have to deal with sourcing a roofer, overseeing work, paying etc. so can be upsides.
Obviously all depends on being well managed, but people always seem to forget service charge covers a lot of costs you have to pay anyway as a freehold owner!
Exactly. I've had both. Leasehold with service charge and sole freeholder. Service charges don't just cover amenities like rubbish collection but also necessary expenses like building insurance, communal utilities and maintenance plus saving up a reserve for big jobs like a new roof, repointing bricks, changing cladding, etc. And unexpected things like subsidence or changes to fire regulations.
In a house or other freehold property you have to pay for all that stuff yourself or don't and let the ravages of time deteriorate your property. In leaseholds it's often a REQUIREMENT of the lease that the freeholder carry out regular maintenance which leaseholders pay for.
Like in ours the had to repaint window frames every seven years.
My experience was that the biggest expenses were insurance and necessary maintenance. Insurance costs were exacerbated by the tendency of flat dwellers to constantly leak on each other through poor plumbing or stupidity. Dealing with insurance claims was one of the main tasks undertaken by the managing agents. And There was very little profit for the managing agents.
And the freeholder earned squat because we as leaseholders each owned a share. The freehold was run by unpaid volunteers. A thankless task with huge responsibility having to deal with godawful, entitled people and genuine nutjobs. Never again.
I acknowledge that there are some developers using service charges unscrupulously for profit and they need to get in the bin.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted look at what happened after Grenfell. The service charges for some places went through the roof because some blocks needed things like waking watches because they were uninsurable without them.
I loved that element of living in a flat, it was the absolute best part of renting and buying combined. I owned my place, could do what I want, but the freeholder (which was also partly me) were contractually bound to keep everything in good condition.
Unfortunately I hated hearing neighbours.
Edit: And also the service charge, it's fine when it's used for what it's supposed to be for but one of our biggest costs every year was paying the management company.
For me definitely yes. But I have a different perspective, I grew up in a country in Eastern Europe where in cities almost everyone lives in apartments their whole life. They are usually big, well designed with good layouts (2bed flats tend to be from 70 square metres up, 3 bed from 80-90 square metres) even though they are ugly on the outside as it's the Soviet brutalist style blocks. You have plenty of amenities and plenty of parks and greenery within 5 minutes walk. Plus people tend (well used to, it's changed in the last 20 years) to have cottages in the country side if they desire greenery/garden every so often.
Honestly I preferred it a lot to living in a house in the UK, all my friends and things to do were super close. When I went to school in London suburbia it was annoying that if I wanted to meet with my friends after school we'd all have to walk like 20-30 mins because everyone was so far apart. And then there'd be nothing to do because the closest park was another 20 mins away. Plus the sound and heat insulation in houses is practically nonexistent here compared to houses I'm used to which causes damp and mould problems and that is something unheard of back home unless you seriously neglect the property. Here it's something people talk about all the time and I've experienced it twice already. Back home I've never had friends or family ever complain or even mention something like a damp problem (unless their roof was leaking).
I'm actually looking to only live in flats tbh, just because I personally prefer it. I feel like people in the UK are too obsessed with having their own garden (like you can do much in the 7 squared metre garden that's always in the shade...) and living in houses which makes the housing situation here a lot worse as building infrastructure and new housing in suburban style is a lot more expensive and difficult than mid-high density apartments.
EDIT: Another consideration for probably why people live in flats, nobody back home would be willing to pay money for semi-detached or terraced house with a small garden. If you live in a house, it's only ever fully detached houses with big garden (I don't even think they build anything else). And don't even get me started on the obsession of selling by room count rather than £/square metre as is the standard on the continent.
same here. I grew up in a 70m2 two bed flat. The whole building had 12 flats and a massive shared garden, where each flat had an allocated piece of land. Ours and three other families built a huge pergola with an outdoor grill area. Great memories!
I guess if I were living in my home country, I would live in a flat. But here I joined that culture of having a house with a garage and garden.
Interesting perspective, I think it depends on where the house is, certainly in some parts of London green spaces can be a fair walk, but when I grew up in the suburbs our friends would be people on the same street and park was only 5 minutes bike ride away. As a flat dweller at present, the lack of light affects me and I want a garden so I can get a bit more sunlight and have some pets.
I find the concept of “needing” a garden hilarious. First, it’s not a necessity. Second, your kid is not going to be able to run around much in the six square meters that thing adds to your house.
In Spain I grew up in a flat that had a communal garden. This meant the costs were shared (much cheaper), and we could actually run around and play with the other kids.
I agree that it is not a need, but it is definitely a nice thing to have.
We have a garden that is larger than 6sqm and we love it! It is also very low maintenance as the lawn is a combination of moss, clover, and other micro greens. We really do not spend much in it, and we mow it maybe twice per year.
My kid enjoys running in the garden, exploring the flowers and wildlife, and just spending time outside. It helps a lot to kill some time during early hours in the weekend or in the evenings while we wait for dinner to be ready. Having easy access to some green space is a game changer with small kids.
As a parent of young children hard disagree - it’s SO helpful just being able to have them play outside in our small garden while I cook / tidy etc. They are more active out there than they would be inside and they absolutely love it.
Your mileage may vary. The standard thing my friends who live in houses complain about is 'despite having this nice big garden the kids want to go to the park every day'... presumably because the park is always bigger and there's random kids there to play with and just being outside the home is exciting once they're 4 years+ etc.
Not to mention the other mums and dads you can socialise through kids playing with each other. This is how I built a good network and friend circle for my kids.
It's a fair point, however if someone was trying to sell you a property where one of the rooms can only be used 5 months a year most people would consider it a bad deal and a waste of money.
it amazes me how quickly we've come back to this way of thinking when just 4 years ago, any private outdoor space was at a premium because you weren't allowed to be near people not from your household and just being able to breathe outdoor air not from a cracked open window was a luxury. I fought hard in 2019 to get a flat with a balcony even though everyone around me told me is was a terrible waste of money. One year later that little balcony was worth its weight in gold when all those people were stuck indoors and I could sit outside during lockdown.
I don't know I have good memories of playing in my tiny garden growing up - I had a climbing frame which meant I could spend hours playing in the garden even though there wasn't room to run around!
I’m not saying it’s not nice. It’s just that some Brits describe the idea of living in an apartment as some kind of failure in life or sign that everything is in shambles and that is just not the case.
As a child, I used to use the garden to play football and run around but now only hallf of the space in my parents garden gets used for barbeques in the summer and to watch the neigbour's cat for the rest of the year.
I can't ever see myself with a garden even if I can afford a house that has one based on the work and money my parents put towards maintaining the space. I would rather use that money to travel to a park or nature walk and enjoy that than constantly pulling weeds out of a flower pot. I can simply bring kids to the public play area and save a tonne of time and work.
> I find the concept of “needing” a garden hilarious.
Also, if everyone got their gardens we'd just consume all of earth and get left with no food. The whole idea (and the title of this post) is elitist AF, but it is extremely normalised in the UK so no one bats an eye.
Similar experience - I grew up in a 2 bedroom flat. And not a big one.
I'd consider living in a flat forever (that's what I know) however I find British flats to be generally low quality while being more expensive on the service charges and leashold renewals.
I currently rent a "luxury" one bedroom in outer London. Both the flat and the building itself have many issues. For now, it's not too bad because the building is still new-ish, but I anticipate more issues to show up in the future while the service charge keeps increasing.
The service charge has already increased so much in my building that some of the owners have issues selling their flats. If I had bought the flat instead of renting, I'd now likely be stuck with deteriorating asset that's hard to get rid of.
Not all flats are like this but one needs to be very careful. It's easy to make a costly mistake.
The selling by room thing is absurd.
However it's happens largely because we're in such a bad housing crisis and buy to let is so common that the number of people a buy to land landlord can fleece is ultimately a big part of wh
I suspect if we ever get proper planning reform start building properly, building flats of a decent size etc etc and prices do massively drop we'll eventually start seeing places sold by sq meterage.
If it works for you, absolutely. Every housing situation incurs costs. Apartments have body corp fees, freeholds have maintenance costs, rentals have rental costs. The idea that freeholds are cheaper is a bit of a myth, I think. You are still at risk of unexpected costs that are out of your control. You could choose not to undertake those costs, sure - but then your living situation would be poorer.
To my mind, there’s no reason in moving somewhere less suitable for your life and future plans because of some vague notion of what constitutes a ‘respectable’ living situation.
>The idea that freeholds are cheaper is a bit of a myth
People who think that freeholds are cheaper have never tried to urgently replace the roof which was stripped during a winter storm. You either pay all the saving you have and then some more for ASAP emergency repairs or live in a flooded home and then refurbish the whole house in the spring. I know that shit doesn't hit the fan like that often, but it only has to happen once to ruin your financial wellbeing for a long time.
That's why you have insurance. No one I know owning their own home doesn't have buildings insurance. Building and contents insurance is £120 a year for me.
Hi! I'm thinking of buying (confused between house vs apartment). Question on the above - would it not be that if the same damage happened to an apartment the service charges would increase? So technically, in a freehold I would have more control on how much is spent in repairs would it not?
I also find the above comment confusing. Surely, you will also have home insurance that will help you with the repairs in case something unexpected happens. And on the price of replacing an entire roof in a freehold, at least you also get to decide all on your own who is doing the job and what materials are they using, so you get a lot of more agency on the final budget.
Although living in a flat can be nice because you share the cost to upkeep of the common areas, I do not think it is necessarily stress-free either.
This would only apply if the roof is badly damaged in eg a storm. If the roof leaks due to age, you just have to get the roof fixed. Insurance doesn’t cover deteriorating components.
Of course. But an old roof that needs replacing in X years is something that you can sort of plan and budget for. The person above was using getting your roof damaged by a storm and having to carve out the money in an emergency fix.
I do believe that maintaining any building (house/flat/whatever) is always expensive, no matter what deal you have. So, you always have to have emergency money regardless of freehold or leasehold.
You can get a 'share of freehold flat' and run the freehold amongst flat owners.
The cost of the roof repairs would be shared between you and all the other owners. Rather than you paying for it all if you owned a house.
I have done it for nearly 30 years. It comes with headaches, but at least you feel you are in charge.
People also forget the time cost associated with maintaining a freehold property.
Are service charges generally a bit more expensive than if you did it yourself? Potentially (in my experience they’re mitigated by more people paying towards costs), but the benefit is that you also don’t spend your weekends down at B&Q figuring out which kind of wood won’t turn into toilet paper next time it rains, waiting at home for a builder to turn up between 2am and midnight, or chasing quotes and costs.
As per my initial comment, there will always be people for whom owning a house is the right choice - people who have a background in construction or love a DIY project, people who require than space etc. But the blanket assumption of apartments always being a poorer cousin is out of touch with reality and with the fact more and more families aren’t the kind for whom more traditional kinds of home ownership work as well as others.
The freeholder of a flat will have buildings insurance, and many will also have a sinking fund, which is where they keep a bit of extra cash from service charges in order to pay for any one off expenses. For example, the regular costs of maintaining a building are £1000 a year per flat on average, but they charge £1200 to the leaseholders - that extra £200 goes to the sinking fund.
Everyone who has a house will (should) have insurance, but their policy might not cover everything, or in an emergency situation like this, you'd have to pay up front before being able to claim it back.
Imagine this, but you suddenly become liable, you can't choose who you use, your management company is clearly skimming off the top and you have zero options.
30-40 years ago you might have been correct about leasehold and free hold re-costs. But given the ongoing persistent shakedown racket freeholders of leasehold properties have been engaging in over the last 20 years nah.
Imagine you have to shell out every month for absurd service charges, can't do much to your property without permission (which is often refused) and then not only are you liable for massive unexpected repairs, you don't get any say in who does them or what the price to you will be.
Now given everything we know from the modern behaviour of freeholders and their management companies trying to extract profit with no justification (and entirely legally) and the fact leaseholders have been left liable for cladding and routinely get charged for major works, that they have no control over it's the worst of both worlds.
There's a good youtube video/podcast on youtube by The new Stateman from a few weeks back called the leasehold scam where they discuss leasehold (including the hosts' massive issues)/ Give it a watch it'll probably be a revelation.
I think it’s a mistake to assume all apartments are leaseholds. The discussion is about apartments vs houses, not freeholds vs leaseholds. Granted I used ‘leasehold’ a couple of times where ‘share of freehold’ would have been more appropriate - I’m not from the uk originally so use ‘body corp’ - basically management and maintenance costs, which is a different process to leaseholding. Apologies for the confusion!
Thanks for this. Will have a look into this. Keen to understand leasehold vs freehold better. All in all seems freehold is the better bet as much as possible.
Tbh we bought a small house hoping for it to be our 'forever home' and we've both realised house ownership is not for us. Spending weekends and holidays doing maintenance and gardening is depressing, and the suburbs are boring as shit. Can't wait to sell and get a flat closer in the city centre.
It's all about preferences
Problem is there should be flats you can own (commonhold) closer to the city centre and in places people want to live that are big enough for whatever scenario and that are afforable.
Forever home is outdated concept. Flat / house is outdated concept. As long as there’s enough space for all to live in, it’s fine for me. Location is key, security is key and the living conditions is key.
I grew up in flat , house , big house and I assure you none of it made a difference to my upbringing.
Yeah, having your parents bring you dinner in a tree house in your garden is definitely overrated for a child's upbringing. Can always hang off the balcony for similar lols in a flat.
Playing in a gnarly garden whilst your healthy cat wanders around is easily replaceable with animal crossing too.
I just had an offer accepted on a three bedroom ground floor flat as a first time buyer. The mortgage payments should be affordable, it’s right across the road from my work, it has both a private and shared garden and I don’t particularly want kids. Can’t see any reason why I’d absolutely need to move unless I was desperate for somewhere more modern (it’s 85 year old ex-council). It’s also whatever the Scottish equivalent of freehold is and there are no service charges.
well yh if we had that in England so many people would be snapping up flats lol! The service charges are like £2000 per year minimum. And the stamp duty when selling is another factor. And that flats have not appreciated in 7 years in London.
it makes more sense to buy a terrace house in a commuter town. well I thought that until I saw the state of some £350k houses in the green belt area haha.
ok so now I'm ranting. Just coming back to this sub after 6 months. feels good to vent, thanks bro.
I grew up in a flat and it was fine. I honestly don’t understand the English obsession with houses.
Also, if the building has a lift it’s a lot better option when you start ageing and the stairs become a problem.
My honest opinion is that when you start out a flat is fine, but if you start thinking of marriage and a family you start to feel like a flat isn't really enough and the desire to own a house, preferably with some outside space, really starts to bite. But then the kids grow up and leave and you don't really want to look after the house and garden any more so you move into a flat.
So really it's the bit in the middle with a family that tends to push us into a house. I'm in a 2 bed semi with my wife and kids, my mum, who brought me up in an old farmhouse in the country, lives in an "apartment". She has service charges etc. but then someone else looks after the building and the gardens etc. so she doesn't need to worry.
There's nothing wrong with staying in your flat for your entire life. If it suits your lifestyle and it is in the right area, why not?
The stigma on apartment living in the UK and US is really baffling for anyone from the continent.
Particularly since in the UK the share of detached houses in the housing market is one of the lowest in the world. Most people live in terraces and semis, which are the worst of both worlds. You have shared walls, noise and barely any space to garden but also have the heating bills, upkeep and maintenance of a house - and you're typically far away from the centre and any amenities.
Not sure why rising kids in flats is such an issue as well. Most kids growing up in suburbs are bored out of their minds because there's nowhere to go or meet other kids and every activity requires a lift from parents.
Enjoy your flat and spend your money on memorable experiences not on trying to keep up with imaginary rules.
>Not sure why rising kids in flats is such an issue as well.
It's an issue for others, specifically with noise. The woman above me has three kids sharing a bedroom in a small flat and the noise and thudding, all day, every day, is fucking horrific.
I've never lived abroad so can't comment on design, and this could be England's awful conversions more than flats in general, but I hate them being there.
How old is your flat? The building regulations in England do cover sound insulation so in theory newer builds or newer conversions should be much better. Building control should be testing sound insulation in new conversions so hopefully your conversion would not be approved today
Obviously that is of no consolation to you, or other people living in badly sound insulated homes, but hopefully it is a problem that will reduce over time as new conversions and new builds have to consider sound transmission.
I say "in theory" because there are plenty of stories of people moving into new builds or new conversions with bad sound insulation that somehow got past building control, but hopefully things are improving in general.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/resistance-to-sound-approved-document-e
That's fair point, the situation with flats in the UK is a mess. In Europe there's no leasehold, there are professional companies dealing with upkeep, there's central heating costing fraction of house heating and you don't need to worry about boiler breaking down, walls and floors are solid concrete typically. There's much bigger focus on surrounding greenery as well, so rather than sitting directly on street a block of flat willy typically be surrounded by well maintained green space with playgrounds and benches.
Yes, I think I would. My husband and I are currently in military accommodation, and while our house is nice, I miss my flat in the city dearly. I miss not having a garden to tend to. I miss the hustle and bustle of city life. I think even in old age, a flat in a city or town with opportunities for socialising would serve our needs better than a house in a more rural area (with more need for upkeep, and fewer things to do outside of home).
Of course. That’s common in most European countries, I would even say it’s down to cultural conditioning to think one has to have a house to have a home. Maintaining a house is a ton of work, legitimate to want to minimise that, especially when older.
Yes. So many people (aged 40 plus) commented that our flat is similar to where they see themselves when their kids have flown the nest and they retire. It’s sizeable and has two bathrooms and plenty of storage. We don’t want kids so it’s perfect for us!
Edited to say: based in Scotland
I've lived in a flat where my neighbours were retired or middle aged and their flat was obviously their 'forever home'. Yes, you have to be active in making sure the maintenance company is doing its job, but this means that if there is a residents' association to sort out that sort of thing, you have a sense of community, not something you always have in a street. It looks like you're perfectly content with your flat for now, your circumstances may change and require you to move but in the meantime don't stress and enjoy your flat.
I'm looking forward moving into a flat, having lived in houses since 1975, painting, repairing, gardening, fun when you're young, our plan is to move into a nice two bed flat, with a bistro, near shops etc, train station to London a little walk away, and getting rid of one of our cars, probably in the next four or five years
My current flat is in a prime location with a station close by, 100+ places to eat within a 10 min walk and 300+ places that deliver on Uber eats/Deliveroo. There is no way I could afford a house here. It would be much more expensive and much further out. We have 100 apartments in this location and I do have some private outdoor space. Reading the comments, its would be very hard to justify selling the flat to move to a much worse location just to 'own' the land and all the issues that come with owning a house
If it suits you, why not? Personally having a private garden is important to me so I wouldn’t consider it but know people who have and it works out fine for them
I live in a prime location with a private 200sqft terrace so I don't lack outdoor space but I know Im in the lucky minority. A house for my budget would be much further out with far fewer doorstep amenities. I'm just reconciling that the flat I have is very good and if i wanted the same amenities in a house I would have to pay double (ie not happening) or have to move much further out and miss out on all the amenities I have here. The pros and prospect of buying a house do not seem to stack up for me which might be a good thing
I couldn't relate harder to a post. I have a lovely 2 bed maisonette flat in south London with a sizeable balcony. I have everything I need on my doorstep and love where I live ...but I feel so utterly trapped.
My lease is at around 90 years so I will need to renew it to stay living there or sell it if I wait too long (£6-10k).
My windows need replacing but are the responsibility of the freeholder so I either have to wait for them to replace them or pay the £20+k myself but when the freeholder then decides to update the windows across the estate I still have to pay my share on top.
The front door is my responsibility and needs replacing but it has to be replaced with a fire door but it's like £3k for the door.
If the freeholder needs to complete any major works in future I am liable to pay my share.
Added to this, during the pandemic the neighbour downstairs had a mental health crisis and set the flat on fire twice - it was traumatic for me but also put my property at risk. It was a nightmare trying to get the tenant evicted.
I'm just done with not being in control of my own space ...but a house is financially so far out of my reach and living in a flat has so many downsides. I feel trapped. But at the same time I love my space and wish I could learn to be happy with my situation.
Why not. If it works for what your want in life what's the issue with a flat?
I have a lovely flat in a rural location, better than most in the UK.
It's not that big but I don't care as it fills all my needs. I don't have a wife and kids as i really don't want that hassle meaning all the money I save from not spending on a pointless house I can spend on holidays, hobbies and frankly whatever I want. Yeh I'll stick with my flat.
I could definitely see myself living in a flat for the rest of my life. I grew up in a big detached house and it's just not something I want for myself. Too much work and not enough time to actually enjoy it.
i came from an Asia country where flats is pretty much the norm. so i dont have too much against buying a flat, UK flats on its minimal its far superiour to where im from already.
its the questionable service charge that putting me off, i see too many news about those shady price increase which deter me from looking into flats here. . .
Mobility plays an issue for me. I live in an upstairs flat with no lift access so mobility probably rules out my current flat long term. When my knees go I am not going to be able to install a chair lift like my mother did to stay in her house. I would also quite like a small garden or yard that I don't have now.
But if there was a lift or I was in a ground floor flat (especially a garden flat), I would be content ending my days here. I like the area. It's convenient with shops, doctors and hospital all withing walking distance. I have an off road parking space if I need to get a mobility scooter or car, I have a share of the freehold so I am less scared of the service charge issue. I'd even flip that around and say I like not having to worry about the costs of a new roof, painting the outside, or paying a gardener because they are covered by the service charge.
But I will probably have to move due to the lack of accessibility of my current flat, and to be honest I would prefer a bungalow which I think of as like a ground floor flat with nobody upstairs anyway. I am less keen on an actual ground floor flat with people upstairs, but I have not ruled it out.
I'm currently in the process of selling my flat to an older lady. It's ground floor, small and easy to keep clean, 2 minutes walk to a bus stop, 6 minutes walk to a tube station, 3 minutes walk to a shop, lots of restaurants within 3-10 minutes walk, low service charge, private car park. I can see how it's a great buy for a single older lady. I bought it as a single young person and most of those things are great for me but now I'm in a relationship and it's feeling a bit crowded in here. The two of us together have a bigger budget so we're moving to a bigger place in a worse location and I'm really going to miss the convenience of my little flat!
I think it (obviously depends of your preferences but) can be totally fine! Other countries where big cities have barely any houses people live in flats all their life, have children etc and it's ok
I have lived in flats for the past decade and had issues with every single one. Not saying houses don't have issues, but at least then it's just up to me to sort it & not liaise with multiple neighbours, landlords, & estate agents. Never lived in a building with maintenance fees or support, most are private lets/owned in my city. Also by this point I despise living so close to other people & having my life disrupted by their noise. Constant banging, shouting, being woken up at night. It's made me extremely anxious and depressed, and I absolutely cannot wait to get out. I can't imagine living like this long term, and would never want to risk buying another flat.
Why not. In most metropolitan cities people live in flats their whole life. Only in London everyone wants a muddy garden they use 2 months of the year.
Yes, definitely. In Europe many of us do. And those of us who grew up in a suburban house, have moved to city flats and remained there, as we had families of our own. It is also very common for those who move to suburbia with their families, to then sell up and move back to a flat in the City once the kids move out. I grew up in a large house, but the upkeep will always make me decide a flat instead. So have lived in flats since I moved out a lifetime ago now. Now we live in a Central London flat with a large balcony (15sqm). As long as I have my large, lovely south facing balcony (shielded from the winds) I have no need for a garden. Much less upkeep than a garden too. The UK needs more good sized flats, better designed and with large communal spaces, like in Europe.
But I definitely hear you re the service charges. There were flats I did not even consider, as the service charges were way too high. And likely to go even higher. Service charges in this country are a simply crazy. And so are the property prices in general.
The concept of the "forever home" is outdate and 'wet' American BS.
Gone are the days where someone will buy/live in a property for life, near the job for life, close to their family who will help them in later life.
Things change, jobs change, care needs change, neighbours change, cladding or fireproofing or doors or any many of things that can force a person out.
The only 'forever' something is the "forever bed" which is a grave.
I agree with the job and living near family, but know a lot of people who’ve been in their homes 10, 20+ years with no plans to move. And now I’ve bought and been through the stresses that came with that I’m not hurrying to do it again lol
I do think there is a difference with the wet and flowery idea of a "forever home" because it is just 'perfect' etc and staying in one place because selling it would be a nightmare!
Indeed!
Facebook post from your 'special' friend:
'Look I adopted \[read: paid for\] my new puppy, I am going to welcome him to its new Forever Home xxxxxx'
A week later:
'Does anyone want a puupy?'
I wouldn't as I am very much a country mouse who needs space. I currently live in a flat but don't intend to for my whole life. If you don't want to stay in flats but can't afford a house in your area, you may need to consider looking further afield. London is expensive.
Yes, why not? People complain about service charges but when an equivalent sized house is an extra £300,000+ (for a mid terrace), that's a lot of years until you're even with service charges! If that extra £300,000 fell out of the sky, would I even use it to buy a house? Not sure. I could put it in a savings account and the interest alone would cover service charges several times over every year.
Flats have benefits too, such as not having to take care of the outside too. In my flat, I pay £855 a year and they maintain all the grass and bushes, cut down trees, resurfaced the driveway, built a new bin shed, installed a secure gate and fence on the garden, manage the car park, clean the windows, clear the gutters, paint the hallways, replace the hallway carpets, replace the hallway lighting, maintain the fire doors, etc. None of this is stuff I ever have to think about which is nice.
I can understand avoiding flats if you live up north and the difference between a flat and a house is like £50,000 and you have enough income to get the house, but London is expensive.
I'm buying a terraced house but would have been perfectly happy with a flat if not for the high service charges.
I'd rather put the equivalent away each month and not have it impact my affordability, with the added bonus of maybe not having to spend it before selling.
I'm also not a fan of the above head thudding and noise that comes from upstairs neighbours and kids, this was a major issue I found when looking at flats thanks to terrible soundproofing in a lot of them. no idea why but this type of noise irritates me a lot more than when it comes from the walls.
It completely depends on different factors - is the flat soundproof? How many sq meters is it? What are future service charge and leasehold costs projected to be.
The issue as others have said is that England has old and badly maintained housing stock compared to other countries. Which means — potentially — noisy neighbours keeping you up all day and night from all four walls. This is particularly an issue in badly or cheaply converted flats vs purpose built ones.
If you love the location, love the sq meters, love (or can’t hear) all the neighbours, and the service costs are low and will stay low, and you don’t care about gardening or outdoor space, and don’t need outdoor space you can have kids run around as you do chores around the house (a big reason parents want a garden), then why not stay in a flat.
It’s more those factors above at play then getting a house for the sake of it.
I technically live in a ground floor flat, its a semi detached converted house so I have the lower two floors and my neighbour has the very top. Its a 3 bed with rooms decent enough sizes, and a shared garden. The area I live in is very financially diverse but all round nice. I dont plan on moving anywhere else unless I find something considerably bigger and im absolutely rich. (Because I cant see myself leaving London) at this moment in time my husband and I plan to raise our children here unless income & the market changes drastically. So i guess yeah this is my forever home atm.
Depends on your lifestyle. If I was very career focused and lived in the city centre for ease to work etc then a flat is fine as a long term plan. If I had kids and loved being outdoors, then maybe not. All depends on you.
I’m not sure I believe in the concept of a “forever home” any more. I think most of what people term their “forever home” tend to be what they envision as their family home (certainly that’s what my house feels like) but when I’m old I’d want a totally different home.
I’d definitely consider a flat for that, but would need some garden space too. Garden flats are obviously quite sought after! I live in a village outside a pretty city and my partner and I like to point out our “retirement properties” in the city all the time. Small flats or houses which are in the city walls and have courtyard gardens or balconies.
I live in a flat in London and will retire at the end of the month. I consider this my home and have no plans to move. I should share that the leaseholders are planning to purchase the headlease so we will have control of the ground rent and service charges.
I bought a new build and personally i find all the pricing decent and so i will consider a forever home unless my partners home is much nicer than mine :D
Depends on my circumstances. I'd like to think I'm pretty pragmatic and if it made sense for me I'd be happy. I can imagine if I liked living in London - well, you live there because of the stuff around you, I'd probably prefer location above other things.
I, personally, like to live like a hermit - I recently moved pretty rurally so I could build myself a garage-workshop and I think I'd not super enjoy living in a flat.
But even now, I'd consider retiring in one when I can't handle house repairs, being able to walk to the shops instead of have a car etc becomes a priority...
I was happy in my flat and would have gladly stayed forever but for the noise - old tenant was fine, occasional noise now and then - new tenant was a nightmare.
It absolutely can be a forever home, especially in areas where house prices are cost prohibitive. My family live in London and they need a layout where there are 2 full bathrooms due to accommodating a disability, that’s only generally available in flats, as the houses that have them are too expensive.
I live in a leasehold estate in a house and definitely see my property as a forever home, especially since I’ve invested a lot in renovating it. If the service charges are reasonable it makes sense.
It would be too boring for me to live in just one place my whole live.
For most people ( not only in UK but around the World ) the first property is a flat or cheap house ( to get on property ladder ) then upsize to a house when you start thinking about children and then downsize again to flat when you are getting older.
If it was big enough for what I needed, had a long enough lease and was OK in terms of accessibility, then sure. I don't think my current flat is quite that - I'd need another bedroom and a lift (or the flat being on the ground floor) to consider it for the true long term - but if I found somewhere that met all my requirements I'd be quite happy to live in a flat for the rest of my days.
I love apartment living. I moved from an apartment to a house.. the good thing.. I don't care about noise levels, the bad thing.. everything else! My house needs painting.. its going to cost thousands..my garden is ginormous.. I don't have time or energy.. I miss my upstairs neighbours.. I miss having a gardener sort out the pool and garden, It was easy to keep warm and dry, I don't miss the downstairs neighbours!
I want to sell up and move back to an apartment lol
I have a perspective on this, I grew up in India where we normally have a flat as a forever home. My parents have always lived in a flat, he ended up retiring with two flats and moved into a flat of my brother.
However, in India, we form a building association and we get the freehold of the land. So the building is managed by the residents, the service charge is therefore nominal and with high population of educated masses most issues are resolved amicably.
I have found it frustratingly not happening in UK. I purchased by first flat, and now I realise owning my freehold is going to be a nightmare. There are tonnes of loops to jump through and my neibours cannot actually afford to buy the freehold, even if I propose it. So no, I will not want to have a flat as a forever home.
I wouldn't consider any home to be a "forever home". At different stages of my life I have different requirements. As a young person I'll be interested in somewhere that I can sleep at night and is close to work and activities, with a family I'm concerned about having somewhere large enough and close to good schools, as an empty nester somewhere handy for my interests (which could be a small cottage in say the lake district, or could be a flat in the middle of london, or maybe I want a big garden), when I retire I want easy access to GPs and hospitals and step-free access
I bought my flat 18 years ago, only thinking I'd be there a few years, but house prices have way outstripped my salary so this might be my forever home. I love it, but would like outside space and an extra bedroom. I extended my lease a while ago, so no worries there.
I used to think my answer to this was a no, because at heart I'm a rural, house-with-garden kind of gal, but I'll be faced with the choice of where to buy somewhere for myself soon, and a flat is a much more accessible option. I'm too young to buy a house in the middle of nowhere and I'm starting to think I'd actively prefer to buy a flat in a nice city where there would be activities and social life opportunities etc. For a flat to be a forever prospect though, it would need to be somewhere pleasant and picturesque (with rental potential for students if I end up moving in with someone else), so solid university locations like York, Edinburgh, Durham, even somewhere smaller but cultured like Leamington Spa etc. I'm currently trying to flog a flat in Basingstoke and it honestly felt like living in a dungeon. Definitely couldn't do that again.
Yes. We spent thirty years in a flat in a tower block. My wife is still there. We hoped that it would be our home for the rest of our lives but sadly the building is coming down, apparently three years ago but they keep running out of money.
My neighbour is in her 60s, and had lived in our block at least 30 years, and I don't she'll be leaving any time soon, so I think it's effectively her forever home.
Heck, my mum, (70s) has just moved into a flat from her freehold property.
So, yes. I would consider a flat a forever home.
The bullshit called leasehold system and no say when it comes to service charge make me reluctant to invest in a flat in England. So far I'll continue to rent
Not for me and that's despite recently buying a flat. I am hoping to build equity in my current flat for a few years and then go for a 2 bed house somewhere further out of Glasgow . I just want to get the city living stuff done first and out of my system.
Is it commonhold? If so and the place is good why not?
My friends did this and very sensibly after a small while of looking only considered commonhold. The difference in service charge etc is absurd. They're paying about 10% of what they would have been paying in a similar leasehold flat in the same area they viewed.
Commonhold probably involves a little more attention and work but you aren't at the whims of a management company or freeholder, only the owners (I mean you may still proceed to organise a management company etc but then it's on you).
This country needs to build more densely in cities people want to live in and needs to make flats big enough to be forever homes. But for this to ever be a sensible prospect as well as better buildings it needs to end leasehold permanently. It's a scam. Commonhold has to be the default in the future.
This is much worse now when the housing industry as a whole seems to have cottoned on leaseholders, especially in flats but not just in flats, have almost no legal redress to anything and so get seen as a cash cow.
Literally just thinking this OP… I bought my flat a few years ago after me n my ex split… I just wanted on the ladder… it’s only a 1 bedroom (with an office/dressing room too). The plan was to live here for a year or 2 n then I’d meet someone n start a family etc.. 🤣🤣… yea I’m 39 now n Iv been super happy on my own, my flag is actually bigger than the 2 bedroom house I lived in with my bf. I have my own garden and a shared garden that I share with 1 flat (downstairs). I have my own front door and to be honest I am very comfortable here… I laugh that I can just get a chair lift in when I can’t manage the stairs 🤣🤣… I feel I will just be here for all my days now. Mine is freehold, not a lease hold so not sure if that makes a difference. Xxx
I don’t see why not. If it is in a location that works for me and the gaffe suits my lifestyle then why wouldn’t it?
Tbh I’m not sure if I subscribe to the idea of a forever home. Not for now anyway.
What is perfect for me today will probably grow old when I’ve settled down with a couple kids and a dog.
If I never have to worry about kids (or more than the one), said flat might be the best bet for me still!
For now, here’s to not having to look up local schools.
No chance. I find flats/apartments utterly depressing. I lived in one for a year and hated every second of it. The flat itself was fine, I made the most of it. But no garden was shit, and the constant uncertainty that you could get someone moving in above or below you that make an absolute racket day and night. Fuck that.
I love summer days outside with the firepit and barbecue on with a few beers. Also, it's good for the kids to have a garden to run around and play in. Also, the freedom to do any structural additions or renovations without disturbing others.
A flat is ok for a very temporary solution, or if you live in an overpriced shithole like London.
I have a council flat that is my forever home now kids have gone and I had to downsize due to bedroom tax. Your home is your home and only you know your wants and needs. Don't buy in a block that is housing association as their fees for maintenance are usually extortionate.
I think it depends on how much you want / value a garden. I'm not green-fingered at all and would see a garden as more of a burden right now. That may change in the future but probably not within the next 10 years.
Yes if the community inside are friendly, the place is nice and service charge is not too extorionate. Houses have their problems and no longer like a status symbol.
It can be a forever home. It’s easier with a share of freehold property. If having a garden or access to a garden is important to you (it is to me) then a place not having a garden could well be a deal breaker for some… I guess it boils down to who lives in the flat, if you have / want kids and how much “living” space there is. We sold a flat in London, thought we wanted a house, looked at houses with less “living space” than our current rental flat and are now buying another flat…
I grew up in a flat in Greece where it’s super common to live in a flat for life. I see nothing bad with it. On the contrary, it just feels too much of a burden to have to maintain a house and a garden. A relatively new built flat with some good energy efficiency will save you a lot of money and trouble down the line.
Well when you get married, think also that your budget potentially doubles, that your "boo" is potentially also owning a flat of their own, and you can use combined asset to buy something that gives more comfort and opportunity as you grow.
you are looking from your position as a single (I assume that from the post)
If you stay single, maybe your needs will not change.
You could also at some point get enought of London and it will hit you that you want to spend the rest of your days somewhere up north in a village with 10 people and a herd of sheeps. then you will sell your london flat, buy a small cottage there and enyoj the solitude and peace.
My first home was never intended to be my forever home, but we are still here 30 years, a marriage and an adult child later, and it definetely is forever now. So glad I've never spent a penny on renting, I have a paid for home that is exactly how we want it.
If we had decided to upgrade the equity would have helped enormously, but then I wouldn't have been able to save enough to make early retirement feasible.
Worked out very well for me.
Not in England or Wales because the problem is leasehold, not the fact it’s a flat.
With leasehold comes lack of freedom and uncertainty. If a flat is commonhold or had a share of freehold, that helps, but the vast majority are not and do not in England and Wales - no other countries in the world use leasehold commonly if at all.
I wouldn’t feel safe and secure retiring in a flat and finding out one year the service charge that did eat £1,500 of my pension annually is suddenly increasing to £15,000 and there is literally nothing you can do about it.
A house is a luxury, while a flat is the normal home of the working class. Look at the continent in countries such as Spain and Estonia. The majority of the residents live in flats.
Therefore, a flat being a forever home is normal unless you are rich enough to afford a house.
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Some people in later life spend their final few decades in flats because it can make sense being able to just live and have a management company run exterior and communal areas.
That’s my situation. I love living in a flat because a lot of the responsibility is off my shoulders. I also live in a city where everything I need is on my doorstep. I’ve had the forever home and really don’t miss it at all.
>I love living in a flat because a lot of the responsibility is off my shoulders. yet you're paying through the nose for it in service charges...
You pay through the nose for a lot of things you can do yourself (transport, food, entertainment) Lots of people find value in different things to you or I.
Many new build houses now have hefty service charges and they do next to nothing apart from cut communal grass. It’s the way the housing market is going.
Leasehold houses are a total scam.
But you pay for these things anyway? Obviously a service charge has more potential to go wrong, but a roof replacement in a house still costs you anyway which people always seem to miss. In a well managed block you would also not have to deal with sourcing a roofer, overseeing work, paying etc. so can be upsides. Obviously all depends on being well managed, but people always seem to forget service charge covers a lot of costs you have to pay anyway as a freehold owner!
Exactly. I've had both. Leasehold with service charge and sole freeholder. Service charges don't just cover amenities like rubbish collection but also necessary expenses like building insurance, communal utilities and maintenance plus saving up a reserve for big jobs like a new roof, repointing bricks, changing cladding, etc. And unexpected things like subsidence or changes to fire regulations. In a house or other freehold property you have to pay for all that stuff yourself or don't and let the ravages of time deteriorate your property. In leaseholds it's often a REQUIREMENT of the lease that the freeholder carry out regular maintenance which leaseholders pay for. Like in ours the had to repaint window frames every seven years. My experience was that the biggest expenses were insurance and necessary maintenance. Insurance costs were exacerbated by the tendency of flat dwellers to constantly leak on each other through poor plumbing or stupidity. Dealing with insurance claims was one of the main tasks undertaken by the managing agents. And There was very little profit for the managing agents. And the freeholder earned squat because we as leaseholders each owned a share. The freehold was run by unpaid volunteers. A thankless task with huge responsibility having to deal with godawful, entitled people and genuine nutjobs. Never again. I acknowledge that there are some developers using service charges unscrupulously for profit and they need to get in the bin.
Wouldn’t you pay through the nose to be happy and love where you live? Sounds like they have everything on their doorstep and more.
-42 downvotes, must be record this week!
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted look at what happened after Grenfell. The service charges for some places went through the roof because some blocks needed things like waking watches because they were uninsurable without them.
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Your comment’s a bit confusing. 20% have no major issues but 80% of people living in flats do?
I loved that element of living in a flat, it was the absolute best part of renting and buying combined. I owned my place, could do what I want, but the freeholder (which was also partly me) were contractually bound to keep everything in good condition. Unfortunately I hated hearing neighbours. Edit: And also the service charge, it's fine when it's used for what it's supposed to be for but one of our biggest costs every year was paying the management company.
This
For me definitely yes. But I have a different perspective, I grew up in a country in Eastern Europe where in cities almost everyone lives in apartments their whole life. They are usually big, well designed with good layouts (2bed flats tend to be from 70 square metres up, 3 bed from 80-90 square metres) even though they are ugly on the outside as it's the Soviet brutalist style blocks. You have plenty of amenities and plenty of parks and greenery within 5 minutes walk. Plus people tend (well used to, it's changed in the last 20 years) to have cottages in the country side if they desire greenery/garden every so often. Honestly I preferred it a lot to living in a house in the UK, all my friends and things to do were super close. When I went to school in London suburbia it was annoying that if I wanted to meet with my friends after school we'd all have to walk like 20-30 mins because everyone was so far apart. And then there'd be nothing to do because the closest park was another 20 mins away. Plus the sound and heat insulation in houses is practically nonexistent here compared to houses I'm used to which causes damp and mould problems and that is something unheard of back home unless you seriously neglect the property. Here it's something people talk about all the time and I've experienced it twice already. Back home I've never had friends or family ever complain or even mention something like a damp problem (unless their roof was leaking). I'm actually looking to only live in flats tbh, just because I personally prefer it. I feel like people in the UK are too obsessed with having their own garden (like you can do much in the 7 squared metre garden that's always in the shade...) and living in houses which makes the housing situation here a lot worse as building infrastructure and new housing in suburban style is a lot more expensive and difficult than mid-high density apartments. EDIT: Another consideration for probably why people live in flats, nobody back home would be willing to pay money for semi-detached or terraced house with a small garden. If you live in a house, it's only ever fully detached houses with big garden (I don't even think they build anything else). And don't even get me started on the obsession of selling by room count rather than £/square metre as is the standard on the continent.
I have the same background as you and yes you are so right. I am in London and have a damp problem now which like you said was unheard of back home.
same here. I grew up in a 70m2 two bed flat. The whole building had 12 flats and a massive shared garden, where each flat had an allocated piece of land. Ours and three other families built a huge pergola with an outdoor grill area. Great memories! I guess if I were living in my home country, I would live in a flat. But here I joined that culture of having a house with a garage and garden.
Interesting perspective, I think it depends on where the house is, certainly in some parts of London green spaces can be a fair walk, but when I grew up in the suburbs our friends would be people on the same street and park was only 5 minutes bike ride away. As a flat dweller at present, the lack of light affects me and I want a garden so I can get a bit more sunlight and have some pets.
I find the concept of “needing” a garden hilarious. First, it’s not a necessity. Second, your kid is not going to be able to run around much in the six square meters that thing adds to your house. In Spain I grew up in a flat that had a communal garden. This meant the costs were shared (much cheaper), and we could actually run around and play with the other kids.
I agree that it is not a need, but it is definitely a nice thing to have. We have a garden that is larger than 6sqm and we love it! It is also very low maintenance as the lawn is a combination of moss, clover, and other micro greens. We really do not spend much in it, and we mow it maybe twice per year. My kid enjoys running in the garden, exploring the flowers and wildlife, and just spending time outside. It helps a lot to kill some time during early hours in the weekend or in the evenings while we wait for dinner to be ready. Having easy access to some green space is a game changer with small kids.
As a parent of young children hard disagree - it’s SO helpful just being able to have them play outside in our small garden while I cook / tidy etc. They are more active out there than they would be inside and they absolutely love it.
Your mileage may vary. The standard thing my friends who live in houses complain about is 'despite having this nice big garden the kids want to go to the park every day'... presumably because the park is always bigger and there's random kids there to play with and just being outside the home is exciting once they're 4 years+ etc.
Not to mention the other mums and dads you can socialise through kids playing with each other. This is how I built a good network and friend circle for my kids.
I also believe that gardens are overrated in the UK. Most of the gardens are too small and are only useful for a few days.
In the South-East it's definitely more than a few days, more like most of 5 months of the year
It's a fair point, however if someone was trying to sell you a property where one of the rooms can only be used 5 months a year most people would consider it a bad deal and a waste of money.
it amazes me how quickly we've come back to this way of thinking when just 4 years ago, any private outdoor space was at a premium because you weren't allowed to be near people not from your household and just being able to breathe outdoor air not from a cracked open window was a luxury. I fought hard in 2019 to get a flat with a balcony even though everyone around me told me is was a terrible waste of money. One year later that little balcony was worth its weight in gold when all those people were stuck indoors and I could sit outside during lockdown.
It’s a good thing a room and a garden are nothing alike then
Like a conservatory?
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Then the rest of the year it will be too cold, muddy and wet to do any of that
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Then it will rain and the clothes get wet again. I don't even wash my car in jacket weather let alone do gardening.
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It just rained for 5 minutes so all the progress is gone. Back they go in the dryer.
I don't know I have good memories of playing in my tiny garden growing up - I had a climbing frame which meant I could spend hours playing in the garden even though there wasn't room to run around!
I’m not saying it’s not nice. It’s just that some Brits describe the idea of living in an apartment as some kind of failure in life or sign that everything is in shambles and that is just not the case.
As a child, I used to use the garden to play football and run around but now only hallf of the space in my parents garden gets used for barbeques in the summer and to watch the neigbour's cat for the rest of the year. I can't ever see myself with a garden even if I can afford a house that has one based on the work and money my parents put towards maintaining the space. I would rather use that money to travel to a park or nature walk and enjoy that than constantly pulling weeds out of a flower pot. I can simply bring kids to the public play area and save a tonne of time and work.
> I find the concept of “needing” a garden hilarious. Also, if everyone got their gardens we'd just consume all of earth and get left with no food. The whole idea (and the title of this post) is elitist AF, but it is extremely normalised in the UK so no one bats an eye.
Similar experience - I grew up in a 2 bedroom flat. And not a big one. I'd consider living in a flat forever (that's what I know) however I find British flats to be generally low quality while being more expensive on the service charges and leashold renewals. I currently rent a "luxury" one bedroom in outer London. Both the flat and the building itself have many issues. For now, it's not too bad because the building is still new-ish, but I anticipate more issues to show up in the future while the service charge keeps increasing. The service charge has already increased so much in my building that some of the owners have issues selling their flats. If I had bought the flat instead of renting, I'd now likely be stuck with deteriorating asset that's hard to get rid of. Not all flats are like this but one needs to be very careful. It's easy to make a costly mistake.
The service charge thing is such a scam and can't believe the government are finding it so hard to outlaw it and lawyers can't do anything about it.
Brits just love their mould and to pay 10x more for heating.
The selling by room thing is absurd. However it's happens largely because we're in such a bad housing crisis and buy to let is so common that the number of people a buy to land landlord can fleece is ultimately a big part of wh I suspect if we ever get proper planning reform start building properly, building flats of a decent size etc etc and prices do massively drop we'll eventually start seeing places sold by sq meterage.
If it works for you, absolutely. Every housing situation incurs costs. Apartments have body corp fees, freeholds have maintenance costs, rentals have rental costs. The idea that freeholds are cheaper is a bit of a myth, I think. You are still at risk of unexpected costs that are out of your control. You could choose not to undertake those costs, sure - but then your living situation would be poorer. To my mind, there’s no reason in moving somewhere less suitable for your life and future plans because of some vague notion of what constitutes a ‘respectable’ living situation.
>The idea that freeholds are cheaper is a bit of a myth People who think that freeholds are cheaper have never tried to urgently replace the roof which was stripped during a winter storm. You either pay all the saving you have and then some more for ASAP emergency repairs or live in a flooded home and then refurbish the whole house in the spring. I know that shit doesn't hit the fan like that often, but it only has to happen once to ruin your financial wellbeing for a long time.
That's why you have insurance. No one I know owning their own home doesn't have buildings insurance. Building and contents insurance is £120 a year for me.
Hi! I'm thinking of buying (confused between house vs apartment). Question on the above - would it not be that if the same damage happened to an apartment the service charges would increase? So technically, in a freehold I would have more control on how much is spent in repairs would it not?
I also find the above comment confusing. Surely, you will also have home insurance that will help you with the repairs in case something unexpected happens. And on the price of replacing an entire roof in a freehold, at least you also get to decide all on your own who is doing the job and what materials are they using, so you get a lot of more agency on the final budget. Although living in a flat can be nice because you share the cost to upkeep of the common areas, I do not think it is necessarily stress-free either.
This would only apply if the roof is badly damaged in eg a storm. If the roof leaks due to age, you just have to get the roof fixed. Insurance doesn’t cover deteriorating components.
Of course. But an old roof that needs replacing in X years is something that you can sort of plan and budget for. The person above was using getting your roof damaged by a storm and having to carve out the money in an emergency fix. I do believe that maintaining any building (house/flat/whatever) is always expensive, no matter what deal you have. So, you always have to have emergency money regardless of freehold or leasehold.
Insurance claims take time. And they always have loads of loop holes not to pay you anything.
You can get a 'share of freehold flat' and run the freehold amongst flat owners. The cost of the roof repairs would be shared between you and all the other owners. Rather than you paying for it all if you owned a house. I have done it for nearly 30 years. It comes with headaches, but at least you feel you are in charge.
Your service charge is spread across the year, you don't have to pay all at once.
People also forget the time cost associated with maintaining a freehold property. Are service charges generally a bit more expensive than if you did it yourself? Potentially (in my experience they’re mitigated by more people paying towards costs), but the benefit is that you also don’t spend your weekends down at B&Q figuring out which kind of wood won’t turn into toilet paper next time it rains, waiting at home for a builder to turn up between 2am and midnight, or chasing quotes and costs. As per my initial comment, there will always be people for whom owning a house is the right choice - people who have a background in construction or love a DIY project, people who require than space etc. But the blanket assumption of apartments always being a poorer cousin is out of touch with reality and with the fact more and more families aren’t the kind for whom more traditional kinds of home ownership work as well as others.
The freeholder of a flat will have buildings insurance, and many will also have a sinking fund, which is where they keep a bit of extra cash from service charges in order to pay for any one off expenses. For example, the regular costs of maintaining a building are £1000 a year per flat on average, but they charge £1200 to the leaseholders - that extra £200 goes to the sinking fund. Everyone who has a house will (should) have insurance, but their policy might not cover everything, or in an emergency situation like this, you'd have to pay up front before being able to claim it back.
Imagine this, but you suddenly become liable, you can't choose who you use, your management company is clearly skimming off the top and you have zero options.
30-40 years ago you might have been correct about leasehold and free hold re-costs. But given the ongoing persistent shakedown racket freeholders of leasehold properties have been engaging in over the last 20 years nah. Imagine you have to shell out every month for absurd service charges, can't do much to your property without permission (which is often refused) and then not only are you liable for massive unexpected repairs, you don't get any say in who does them or what the price to you will be. Now given everything we know from the modern behaviour of freeholders and their management companies trying to extract profit with no justification (and entirely legally) and the fact leaseholders have been left liable for cladding and routinely get charged for major works, that they have no control over it's the worst of both worlds. There's a good youtube video/podcast on youtube by The new Stateman from a few weeks back called the leasehold scam where they discuss leasehold (including the hosts' massive issues)/ Give it a watch it'll probably be a revelation.
I think it’s a mistake to assume all apartments are leaseholds. The discussion is about apartments vs houses, not freeholds vs leaseholds. Granted I used ‘leasehold’ a couple of times where ‘share of freehold’ would have been more appropriate - I’m not from the uk originally so use ‘body corp’ - basically management and maintenance costs, which is a different process to leaseholding. Apologies for the confusion!
Thanks for this. Will have a look into this. Keen to understand leasehold vs freehold better. All in all seems freehold is the better bet as much as possible.
Tbh we bought a small house hoping for it to be our 'forever home' and we've both realised house ownership is not for us. Spending weekends and holidays doing maintenance and gardening is depressing, and the suburbs are boring as shit. Can't wait to sell and get a flat closer in the city centre. It's all about preferences
Problem is there should be flats you can own (commonhold) closer to the city centre and in places people want to live that are big enough for whatever scenario and that are afforable.
Forever home is outdated concept. Flat / house is outdated concept. As long as there’s enough space for all to live in, it’s fine for me. Location is key, security is key and the living conditions is key. I grew up in flat , house , big house and I assure you none of it made a difference to my upbringing.
Yeah, having your parents bring you dinner in a tree house in your garden is definitely overrated for a child's upbringing. Can always hang off the balcony for similar lols in a flat. Playing in a gnarly garden whilst your healthy cat wanders around is easily replaceable with animal crossing too.
It all depends on the family and location to bring up the child not the size of the property.
I just had an offer accepted on a three bedroom ground floor flat as a first time buyer. The mortgage payments should be affordable, it’s right across the road from my work, it has both a private and shared garden and I don’t particularly want kids. Can’t see any reason why I’d absolutely need to move unless I was desperate for somewhere more modern (it’s 85 year old ex-council). It’s also whatever the Scottish equivalent of freehold is and there are no service charges.
well yh if we had that in England so many people would be snapping up flats lol! The service charges are like £2000 per year minimum. And the stamp duty when selling is another factor. And that flats have not appreciated in 7 years in London. it makes more sense to buy a terrace house in a commuter town. well I thought that until I saw the state of some £350k houses in the green belt area haha. ok so now I'm ranting. Just coming back to this sub after 6 months. feels good to vent, thanks bro.
I grew up in a flat and it was fine. I honestly don’t understand the English obsession with houses. Also, if the building has a lift it’s a lot better option when you start ageing and the stairs become a problem.
My honest opinion is that when you start out a flat is fine, but if you start thinking of marriage and a family you start to feel like a flat isn't really enough and the desire to own a house, preferably with some outside space, really starts to bite. But then the kids grow up and leave and you don't really want to look after the house and garden any more so you move into a flat. So really it's the bit in the middle with a family that tends to push us into a house. I'm in a 2 bed semi with my wife and kids, my mum, who brought me up in an old farmhouse in the country, lives in an "apartment". She has service charges etc. but then someone else looks after the building and the gardens etc. so she doesn't need to worry. There's nothing wrong with staying in your flat for your entire life. If it suits your lifestyle and it is in the right area, why not?
Absolutely. Houses come with ongoing costs too and honestly a flat is so much easier to manage in older years!
The stigma on apartment living in the UK and US is really baffling for anyone from the continent. Particularly since in the UK the share of detached houses in the housing market is one of the lowest in the world. Most people live in terraces and semis, which are the worst of both worlds. You have shared walls, noise and barely any space to garden but also have the heating bills, upkeep and maintenance of a house - and you're typically far away from the centre and any amenities. Not sure why rising kids in flats is such an issue as well. Most kids growing up in suburbs are bored out of their minds because there's nowhere to go or meet other kids and every activity requires a lift from parents. Enjoy your flat and spend your money on memorable experiences not on trying to keep up with imaginary rules.
>Not sure why rising kids in flats is such an issue as well. It's an issue for others, specifically with noise. The woman above me has three kids sharing a bedroom in a small flat and the noise and thudding, all day, every day, is fucking horrific. I've never lived abroad so can't comment on design, and this could be England's awful conversions more than flats in general, but I hate them being there.
How old is your flat? The building regulations in England do cover sound insulation so in theory newer builds or newer conversions should be much better. Building control should be testing sound insulation in new conversions so hopefully your conversion would not be approved today Obviously that is of no consolation to you, or other people living in badly sound insulated homes, but hopefully it is a problem that will reduce over time as new conversions and new builds have to consider sound transmission. I say "in theory" because there are plenty of stories of people moving into new builds or new conversions with bad sound insulation that somehow got past building control, but hopefully things are improving in general. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/resistance-to-sound-approved-document-e
124 years old and has been flats for at least 40 years. Insanely common where I live too.
Really common in London - conversions of Victorian terrace houses.
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That's fair point, the situation with flats in the UK is a mess. In Europe there's no leasehold, there are professional companies dealing with upkeep, there's central heating costing fraction of house heating and you don't need to worry about boiler breaking down, walls and floors are solid concrete typically. There's much bigger focus on surrounding greenery as well, so rather than sitting directly on street a block of flat willy typically be surrounded by well maintained green space with playgrounds and benches.
Yes, I think I would. My husband and I are currently in military accommodation, and while our house is nice, I miss my flat in the city dearly. I miss not having a garden to tend to. I miss the hustle and bustle of city life. I think even in old age, a flat in a city or town with opportunities for socialising would serve our needs better than a house in a more rural area (with more need for upkeep, and fewer things to do outside of home).
Of course. That’s common in most European countries, I would even say it’s down to cultural conditioning to think one has to have a house to have a home. Maintaining a house is a ton of work, legitimate to want to minimise that, especially when older.
Smaller space is easier to clean and having a large house means I'd fill it with junk I don't need
Yes. So many people (aged 40 plus) commented that our flat is similar to where they see themselves when their kids have flown the nest and they retire. It’s sizeable and has two bathrooms and plenty of storage. We don’t want kids so it’s perfect for us! Edited to say: based in Scotland
I've lived in a flat where my neighbours were retired or middle aged and their flat was obviously their 'forever home'. Yes, you have to be active in making sure the maintenance company is doing its job, but this means that if there is a residents' association to sort out that sort of thing, you have a sense of community, not something you always have in a street. It looks like you're perfectly content with your flat for now, your circumstances may change and require you to move but in the meantime don't stress and enjoy your flat.
I'm looking forward moving into a flat, having lived in houses since 1975, painting, repairing, gardening, fun when you're young, our plan is to move into a nice two bed flat, with a bistro, near shops etc, train station to London a little walk away, and getting rid of one of our cars, probably in the next four or five years
My current flat is in a prime location with a station close by, 100+ places to eat within a 10 min walk and 300+ places that deliver on Uber eats/Deliveroo. There is no way I could afford a house here. It would be much more expensive and much further out. We have 100 apartments in this location and I do have some private outdoor space. Reading the comments, its would be very hard to justify selling the flat to move to a much worse location just to 'own' the land and all the issues that come with owning a house
If it suits you, why not? Personally having a private garden is important to me so I wouldn’t consider it but know people who have and it works out fine for them
I live in a prime location with a private 200sqft terrace so I don't lack outdoor space but I know Im in the lucky minority. A house for my budget would be much further out with far fewer doorstep amenities. I'm just reconciling that the flat I have is very good and if i wanted the same amenities in a house I would have to pay double (ie not happening) or have to move much further out and miss out on all the amenities I have here. The pros and prospect of buying a house do not seem to stack up for me which might be a good thing
I bought a ground floor flat and I intend to retire in it. No stairs, I can install a ramp if I need to.
As a migrant - yes. Living in flats is normal.
Probably not. Most I've lived in have poor soundproofing to some extent.
I couldn't relate harder to a post. I have a lovely 2 bed maisonette flat in south London with a sizeable balcony. I have everything I need on my doorstep and love where I live ...but I feel so utterly trapped. My lease is at around 90 years so I will need to renew it to stay living there or sell it if I wait too long (£6-10k). My windows need replacing but are the responsibility of the freeholder so I either have to wait for them to replace them or pay the £20+k myself but when the freeholder then decides to update the windows across the estate I still have to pay my share on top. The front door is my responsibility and needs replacing but it has to be replaced with a fire door but it's like £3k for the door. If the freeholder needs to complete any major works in future I am liable to pay my share. Added to this, during the pandemic the neighbour downstairs had a mental health crisis and set the flat on fire twice - it was traumatic for me but also put my property at risk. It was a nightmare trying to get the tenant evicted. I'm just done with not being in control of my own space ...but a house is financially so far out of my reach and living in a flat has so many downsides. I feel trapped. But at the same time I love my space and wish I could learn to be happy with my situation.
Not for me
Why not. If it works for what your want in life what's the issue with a flat? I have a lovely flat in a rural location, better than most in the UK. It's not that big but I don't care as it fills all my needs. I don't have a wife and kids as i really don't want that hassle meaning all the money I save from not spending on a pointless house I can spend on holidays, hobbies and frankly whatever I want. Yeh I'll stick with my flat.
I could definitely see myself living in a flat for the rest of my life. I grew up in a big detached house and it's just not something I want for myself. Too much work and not enough time to actually enjoy it.
No
i came from an Asia country where flats is pretty much the norm. so i dont have too much against buying a flat, UK flats on its minimal its far superiour to where im from already. its the questionable service charge that putting me off, i see too many news about those shady price increase which deter me from looking into flats here. . .
Mobility plays an issue for me. I live in an upstairs flat with no lift access so mobility probably rules out my current flat long term. When my knees go I am not going to be able to install a chair lift like my mother did to stay in her house. I would also quite like a small garden or yard that I don't have now. But if there was a lift or I was in a ground floor flat (especially a garden flat), I would be content ending my days here. I like the area. It's convenient with shops, doctors and hospital all withing walking distance. I have an off road parking space if I need to get a mobility scooter or car, I have a share of the freehold so I am less scared of the service charge issue. I'd even flip that around and say I like not having to worry about the costs of a new roof, painting the outside, or paying a gardener because they are covered by the service charge. But I will probably have to move due to the lack of accessibility of my current flat, and to be honest I would prefer a bungalow which I think of as like a ground floor flat with nobody upstairs anyway. I am less keen on an actual ground floor flat with people upstairs, but I have not ruled it out.
I'm currently in the process of selling my flat to an older lady. It's ground floor, small and easy to keep clean, 2 minutes walk to a bus stop, 6 minutes walk to a tube station, 3 minutes walk to a shop, lots of restaurants within 3-10 minutes walk, low service charge, private car park. I can see how it's a great buy for a single older lady. I bought it as a single young person and most of those things are great for me but now I'm in a relationship and it's feeling a bit crowded in here. The two of us together have a bigger budget so we're moving to a bigger place in a worse location and I'm really going to miss the convenience of my little flat!
I think it (obviously depends of your preferences but) can be totally fine! Other countries where big cities have barely any houses people live in flats all their life, have children etc and it's ok
I have lived in flats for the past decade and had issues with every single one. Not saying houses don't have issues, but at least then it's just up to me to sort it & not liaise with multiple neighbours, landlords, & estate agents. Never lived in a building with maintenance fees or support, most are private lets/owned in my city. Also by this point I despise living so close to other people & having my life disrupted by their noise. Constant banging, shouting, being woken up at night. It's made me extremely anxious and depressed, and I absolutely cannot wait to get out. I can't imagine living like this long term, and would never want to risk buying another flat.
Why not. In most metropolitan cities people live in flats their whole life. Only in London everyone wants a muddy garden they use 2 months of the year.
Yes, definitely. In Europe many of us do. And those of us who grew up in a suburban house, have moved to city flats and remained there, as we had families of our own. It is also very common for those who move to suburbia with their families, to then sell up and move back to a flat in the City once the kids move out. I grew up in a large house, but the upkeep will always make me decide a flat instead. So have lived in flats since I moved out a lifetime ago now. Now we live in a Central London flat with a large balcony (15sqm). As long as I have my large, lovely south facing balcony (shielded from the winds) I have no need for a garden. Much less upkeep than a garden too. The UK needs more good sized flats, better designed and with large communal spaces, like in Europe. But I definitely hear you re the service charges. There were flats I did not even consider, as the service charges were way too high. And likely to go even higher. Service charges in this country are a simply crazy. And so are the property prices in general.
The concept of the "forever home" is outdate and 'wet' American BS. Gone are the days where someone will buy/live in a property for life, near the job for life, close to their family who will help them in later life. Things change, jobs change, care needs change, neighbours change, cladding or fireproofing or doors or any many of things that can force a person out. The only 'forever' something is the "forever bed" which is a grave.
I agree with the job and living near family, but know a lot of people who’ve been in their homes 10, 20+ years with no plans to move. And now I’ve bought and been through the stresses that came with that I’m not hurrying to do it again lol
I do think there is a difference with the wet and flowery idea of a "forever home" because it is just 'perfect' etc and staying in one place because selling it would be a nightmare!
Haha yeah. The term ‘forever home’ is not one I’d use personally, it makes me cringe when used with pets too
Indeed! Facebook post from your 'special' friend: 'Look I adopted \[read: paid for\] my new puppy, I am going to welcome him to its new Forever Home xxxxxx' A week later: 'Does anyone want a puupy?'
I wouldn't as I am very much a country mouse who needs space. I currently live in a flat but don't intend to for my whole life. If you don't want to stay in flats but can't afford a house in your area, you may need to consider looking further afield. London is expensive.
I could do a flat with a balcony IF the flat was relatively soundproof
If it's share of freehold, yes.
Yes, why not? People complain about service charges but when an equivalent sized house is an extra £300,000+ (for a mid terrace), that's a lot of years until you're even with service charges! If that extra £300,000 fell out of the sky, would I even use it to buy a house? Not sure. I could put it in a savings account and the interest alone would cover service charges several times over every year. Flats have benefits too, such as not having to take care of the outside too. In my flat, I pay £855 a year and they maintain all the grass and bushes, cut down trees, resurfaced the driveway, built a new bin shed, installed a secure gate and fence on the garden, manage the car park, clean the windows, clear the gutters, paint the hallways, replace the hallway carpets, replace the hallway lighting, maintain the fire doors, etc. None of this is stuff I ever have to think about which is nice. I can understand avoiding flats if you live up north and the difference between a flat and a house is like £50,000 and you have enough income to get the house, but London is expensive.
im single live in a 1 bed so for now yes
I do, I love my flat.
I'm buying a terraced house but would have been perfectly happy with a flat if not for the high service charges. I'd rather put the equivalent away each month and not have it impact my affordability, with the added bonus of maybe not having to spend it before selling. I'm also not a fan of the above head thudding and noise that comes from upstairs neighbours and kids, this was a major issue I found when looking at flats thanks to terrible soundproofing in a lot of them. no idea why but this type of noise irritates me a lot more than when it comes from the walls.
Yes.
It completely depends on different factors - is the flat soundproof? How many sq meters is it? What are future service charge and leasehold costs projected to be. The issue as others have said is that England has old and badly maintained housing stock compared to other countries. Which means — potentially — noisy neighbours keeping you up all day and night from all four walls. This is particularly an issue in badly or cheaply converted flats vs purpose built ones. If you love the location, love the sq meters, love (or can’t hear) all the neighbours, and the service costs are low and will stay low, and you don’t care about gardening or outdoor space, and don’t need outdoor space you can have kids run around as you do chores around the house (a big reason parents want a garden), then why not stay in a flat. It’s more those factors above at play then getting a house for the sake of it.
I technically live in a ground floor flat, its a semi detached converted house so I have the lower two floors and my neighbour has the very top. Its a 3 bed with rooms decent enough sizes, and a shared garden. The area I live in is very financially diverse but all round nice. I dont plan on moving anywhere else unless I find something considerably bigger and im absolutely rich. (Because I cant see myself leaving London) at this moment in time my husband and I plan to raise our children here unless income & the market changes drastically. So i guess yeah this is my forever home atm.
Depends on your lifestyle. If I was very career focused and lived in the city centre for ease to work etc then a flat is fine as a long term plan. If I had kids and loved being outdoors, then maybe not. All depends on you.
I’m not sure I believe in the concept of a “forever home” any more. I think most of what people term their “forever home” tend to be what they envision as their family home (certainly that’s what my house feels like) but when I’m old I’d want a totally different home. I’d definitely consider a flat for that, but would need some garden space too. Garden flats are obviously quite sought after! I live in a village outside a pretty city and my partner and I like to point out our “retirement properties” in the city all the time. Small flats or houses which are in the city walls and have courtyard gardens or balconies.
I live in a flat in London and will retire at the end of the month. I consider this my home and have no plans to move. I should share that the leaseholders are planning to purchase the headlease so we will have control of the ground rent and service charges.
I bought a new build and personally i find all the pricing decent and so i will consider a forever home unless my partners home is much nicer than mine :D
Depends on my circumstances. I'd like to think I'm pretty pragmatic and if it made sense for me I'd be happy. I can imagine if I liked living in London - well, you live there because of the stuff around you, I'd probably prefer location above other things. I, personally, like to live like a hermit - I recently moved pretty rurally so I could build myself a garage-workshop and I think I'd not super enjoy living in a flat. But even now, I'd consider retiring in one when I can't handle house repairs, being able to walk to the shops instead of have a car etc becomes a priority...
depends what you want? do you want a family, if so is the flat big enough for it?
I was happy in my flat and would have gladly stayed forever but for the noise - old tenant was fine, occasional noise now and then - new tenant was a nightmare.
It absolutely can be a forever home, especially in areas where house prices are cost prohibitive. My family live in London and they need a layout where there are 2 full bathrooms due to accommodating a disability, that’s only generally available in flats, as the houses that have them are too expensive. I live in a leasehold estate in a house and definitely see my property as a forever home, especially since I’ve invested a lot in renovating it. If the service charges are reasonable it makes sense.
If it suits your lifestyle and you like the location then why not?
It would be too boring for me to live in just one place my whole live. For most people ( not only in UK but around the World ) the first property is a flat or cheap house ( to get on property ladder ) then upsize to a house when you start thinking about children and then downsize again to flat when you are getting older.
Yes. But I live in Scotland so no leaseholds
If it was big enough for what I needed, had a long enough lease and was OK in terms of accessibility, then sure. I don't think my current flat is quite that - I'd need another bedroom and a lift (or the flat being on the ground floor) to consider it for the true long term - but if I found somewhere that met all my requirements I'd be quite happy to live in a flat for the rest of my days.
If the lease was air tight and way beyond the life expectancy I had left! Sure!
I love apartment living. I moved from an apartment to a house.. the good thing.. I don't care about noise levels, the bad thing.. everything else! My house needs painting.. its going to cost thousands..my garden is ginormous.. I don't have time or energy.. I miss my upstairs neighbours.. I miss having a gardener sort out the pool and garden, It was easy to keep warm and dry, I don't miss the downstairs neighbours! I want to sell up and move back to an apartment lol
I have a perspective on this, I grew up in India where we normally have a flat as a forever home. My parents have always lived in a flat, he ended up retiring with two flats and moved into a flat of my brother. However, in India, we form a building association and we get the freehold of the land. So the building is managed by the residents, the service charge is therefore nominal and with high population of educated masses most issues are resolved amicably. I have found it frustratingly not happening in UK. I purchased by first flat, and now I realise owning my freehold is going to be a nightmare. There are tonnes of loops to jump through and my neibours cannot actually afford to buy the freehold, even if I propose it. So no, I will not want to have a flat as a forever home.
I wouldn't consider any home to be a "forever home". At different stages of my life I have different requirements. As a young person I'll be interested in somewhere that I can sleep at night and is close to work and activities, with a family I'm concerned about having somewhere large enough and close to good schools, as an empty nester somewhere handy for my interests (which could be a small cottage in say the lake district, or could be a flat in the middle of london, or maybe I want a big garden), when I retire I want easy access to GPs and hospitals and step-free access
I absolutely hate the term forever home. You just mean your home.
I bought my flat 18 years ago, only thinking I'd be there a few years, but house prices have way outstripped my salary so this might be my forever home. I love it, but would like outside space and an extra bedroom. I extended my lease a while ago, so no worries there.
I used to think my answer to this was a no, because at heart I'm a rural, house-with-garden kind of gal, but I'll be faced with the choice of where to buy somewhere for myself soon, and a flat is a much more accessible option. I'm too young to buy a house in the middle of nowhere and I'm starting to think I'd actively prefer to buy a flat in a nice city where there would be activities and social life opportunities etc. For a flat to be a forever prospect though, it would need to be somewhere pleasant and picturesque (with rental potential for students if I end up moving in with someone else), so solid university locations like York, Edinburgh, Durham, even somewhere smaller but cultured like Leamington Spa etc. I'm currently trying to flog a flat in Basingstoke and it honestly felt like living in a dungeon. Definitely couldn't do that again.
Yes. We spent thirty years in a flat in a tower block. My wife is still there. We hoped that it would be our home for the rest of our lives but sadly the building is coming down, apparently three years ago but they keep running out of money.
Great idea, lock up and leave whilst travelling no concerns of squatters etc because of management company, concierge etc.
My neighbour is in her 60s, and had lived in our block at least 30 years, and I don't she'll be leaving any time soon, so I think it's effectively her forever home. Heck, my mum, (70s) has just moved into a flat from her freehold property. So, yes. I would consider a flat a forever home.
The bullshit called leasehold system and no say when it comes to service charge make me reluctant to invest in a flat in England. So far I'll continue to rent
Yep! Own a studio in London and a 2 bed flat abroad. Can’t be arsed with gardens etc.
Not for me and that's despite recently buying a flat. I am hoping to build equity in my current flat for a few years and then go for a 2 bed house somewhere further out of Glasgow . I just want to get the city living stuff done first and out of my system.
I miss living in a flat, as soon as my kids leave home im going back
If it met all my needs, and the leasehold was long enough and I liked it then yes
Is it commonhold? If so and the place is good why not? My friends did this and very sensibly after a small while of looking only considered commonhold. The difference in service charge etc is absurd. They're paying about 10% of what they would have been paying in a similar leasehold flat in the same area they viewed. Commonhold probably involves a little more attention and work but you aren't at the whims of a management company or freeholder, only the owners (I mean you may still proceed to organise a management company etc but then it's on you). This country needs to build more densely in cities people want to live in and needs to make flats big enough to be forever homes. But for this to ever be a sensible prospect as well as better buildings it needs to end leasehold permanently. It's a scam. Commonhold has to be the default in the future. This is much worse now when the housing industry as a whole seems to have cottoned on leaseholders, especially in flats but not just in flats, have almost no legal redress to anything and so get seen as a cash cow.
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If it suits you and you don't have noise issues then absolutely.
\*laughs in Eastern European\*
When the kids have all moved out, my wife and I want to go back to a flat
Literally just thinking this OP… I bought my flat a few years ago after me n my ex split… I just wanted on the ladder… it’s only a 1 bedroom (with an office/dressing room too). The plan was to live here for a year or 2 n then I’d meet someone n start a family etc.. 🤣🤣… yea I’m 39 now n Iv been super happy on my own, my flag is actually bigger than the 2 bedroom house I lived in with my bf. I have my own garden and a shared garden that I share with 1 flat (downstairs). I have my own front door and to be honest I am very comfortable here… I laugh that I can just get a chair lift in when I can’t manage the stairs 🤣🤣… I feel I will just be here for all my days now. Mine is freehold, not a lease hold so not sure if that makes a difference. Xxx
Yes . . .
I don’t see why not. If it is in a location that works for me and the gaffe suits my lifestyle then why wouldn’t it? Tbh I’m not sure if I subscribe to the idea of a forever home. Not for now anyway. What is perfect for me today will probably grow old when I’ve settled down with a couple kids and a dog. If I never have to worry about kids (or more than the one), said flat might be the best bet for me still! For now, here’s to not having to look up local schools.
No chance. I find flats/apartments utterly depressing. I lived in one for a year and hated every second of it. The flat itself was fine, I made the most of it. But no garden was shit, and the constant uncertainty that you could get someone moving in above or below you that make an absolute racket day and night. Fuck that. I love summer days outside with the firepit and barbecue on with a few beers. Also, it's good for the kids to have a garden to run around and play in. Also, the freedom to do any structural additions or renovations without disturbing others. A flat is ok for a very temporary solution, or if you live in an overpriced shithole like London.
I have a council flat that is my forever home now kids have gone and I had to downsize due to bedroom tax. Your home is your home and only you know your wants and needs. Don't buy in a block that is housing association as their fees for maintenance are usually extortionate.
I think it depends on how much you want / value a garden. I'm not green-fingered at all and would see a garden as more of a burden right now. That may change in the future but probably not within the next 10 years.
Yes. I’m planning to move back into a flat once my kids moved out.
Yes if the community inside are friendly, the place is nice and service charge is not too extorionate. Houses have their problems and no longer like a status symbol.
It can be a forever home. It’s easier with a share of freehold property. If having a garden or access to a garden is important to you (it is to me) then a place not having a garden could well be a deal breaker for some… I guess it boils down to who lives in the flat, if you have / want kids and how much “living” space there is. We sold a flat in London, thought we wanted a house, looked at houses with less “living space” than our current rental flat and are now buying another flat…
I grew up in a flat in Greece where it’s super common to live in a flat for life. I see nothing bad with it. On the contrary, it just feels too much of a burden to have to maintain a house and a garden. A relatively new built flat with some good energy efficiency will save you a lot of money and trouble down the line.
Well when you get married, think also that your budget potentially doubles, that your "boo" is potentially also owning a flat of their own, and you can use combined asset to buy something that gives more comfort and opportunity as you grow. you are looking from your position as a single (I assume that from the post) If you stay single, maybe your needs will not change. You could also at some point get enought of London and it will hit you that you want to spend the rest of your days somewhere up north in a village with 10 people and a herd of sheeps. then you will sell your london flat, buy a small cottage there and enyoj the solitude and peace.
My father is downsizing to a flat which will be his forever home.
I wouldn't. But I am biased because I have never lived in a flat before. I've seen some nice flats, but I'm drawn to the houses more.
My first home was never intended to be my forever home, but we are still here 30 years, a marriage and an adult child later, and it definetely is forever now. So glad I've never spent a penny on renting, I have a paid for home that is exactly how we want it. If we had decided to upgrade the equity would have helped enormously, but then I wouldn't have been able to save enough to make early retirement feasible. Worked out very well for me.
Not in England or Wales because the problem is leasehold, not the fact it’s a flat. With leasehold comes lack of freedom and uncertainty. If a flat is commonhold or had a share of freehold, that helps, but the vast majority are not and do not in England and Wales - no other countries in the world use leasehold commonly if at all. I wouldn’t feel safe and secure retiring in a flat and finding out one year the service charge that did eat £1,500 of my pension annually is suddenly increasing to £15,000 and there is literally nothing you can do about it.
A house is a luxury, while a flat is the normal home of the working class. Look at the continent in countries such as Spain and Estonia. The majority of the residents live in flats. Therefore, a flat being a forever home is normal unless you are rich enough to afford a house.
No