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Agreed, but also Ofsted reports are not the last word on school quality.
Put my son in a "good" school... He got daily death threats to himself and to me, at 8 years old. School did nothing. 20 of his classmates basically banded together to prey on one kid (was a different kid before my son arrived) and it was relentless and incredibly traumatic.
Oh I didn't mean that, more that good teachers abandon schools which have bad ofsteds so the quality often goes down quickly. I'm sorry you experienced that.
I was in a similar situation recently, we moved just before the oldest started primary school and the younger one still in nursery.
We just focused on catchment areas for primary schools, and for secondary we just made sure they were 'ok' as 8 years is a long time anything can happen to a school.
It's just luck of the draw in 8 years time in my opinion
This is the same as us. We prioritised getting into the catchment area for a fantastic primary and then maxed the budget to be on the borders of a fantastic secondary with a good back up secondary. You don't know how things will change in 8yrs but if you're in an area with a cluster of good primaries and secondaries it's less likely that all of the options will change drastically in less than a decade.
8 years is a long time. My oldest is going to a secondary school that is fantastic now, but was the worst of the worst 10 years ago. A new trust came in 4 years ago and has turned it around to the point where they had double the applications to spaces.
Even with primary schools - donāt go by ofsted rating alone, a ārequires improvingā school could have the values and culture you are looking for. My youngest would have struggled at our local outstanding primary school due to their teaching methods. He has flourished at a school with a worse ofsted rating but that focuses on outdoor learning.
If it were me, I would make sure I had at least some options for when the time comes and then get the house! There are just too many variables to have a solid plan right now school wise so I would go with what I can do here and now. But thatās just me!
I'd still go for it, When I first moved our catchment primary was awful, luckily I got my eldest into a best primary across town and my middle children went there too, they then went on to the catchment secondary school which is good, My youngest (I have a big age gap with the youngest to the older 3) has gone to the catchment primary as over the last 12 years it has been taken over and has now become a really good school!
There's a lot of years between now and secondary school and a lot can change.
My thoughts:
Schools change hugely over a few years, a new head teacher can make such a difference both positive and negative.
What's the primary school like? A 0-11 year old is 11 years of going to a primary school every day. Is the commute easy, accessible etc?
Secondary school - the 0 year old if staying on till a-level will take 18 years until 2042. That's a long time - thus getting your decisions aligned is crucial.
E.g. [https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pupil-number-forecast-revised-up-but-steep-decline-still-expected/](https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pupil-number-forecast-revised-up-but-steep-decline-still-expected/)
You never know what the government will do/schools will change around boundaries - but if you are in the catchment (e.g. move to the area) you are reducing the risk of not getting into the school (by being in the current catchment) but there's still plenty of unknown variables.
Primary is "Good" as are a few others around us we could probably attend. We havnt yet started visiting them but am comfortable from what we know of them.
We recently moved and purposely bought a house super close to one of the better primary schools in the area.
Itās a game changer.
No longer getting the kids in car and driving 15 minutes for the drop off then rushing back for work. We literally walk them to end of street.
For the next 6-8 years (have a kid Iām nursery) we will save an enormous amount of faff.
Some days thereās sports clubs after school and I see so many kids and parents sitting in cars for 30 minutes before after-school activities start.
We can just walk back home, feed them, and drop them back off.
One mother gets the bus and walks her kids to school, takes 35 minutes each way. Thatās a monumental commitment for next 6-8 years.
People often favour house over location, but we are so glad we went for location. It certainly matters and shouldnāt be overlooked.
Agreed - fortunately we're in a market town and the primary school is a short walk away. The secondary (the one which right now is the "better" one) is a 20-25 min walk.
Thanks
Is it a recent ofsted report for an outstanding secondary school (is there a track record of outstanding?). Check the exam results for the last few years (barring covid). Worth having a chat with the headmaster, to gauge what itāll be like in 8 years time.
Distance to schooling would factor in your next home. But that will come at a premium š„². Some people move after one sibling gets into the secondary based on the school allocation rules.
I would check if this is a recent outstanding rating. The criteria changed in 2019 - and according to [https://schoolsweek.co.uk/four-in-five-outstanding-schools-lose-top-ofsted-grade/](https://schoolsweek.co.uk/four-in-five-outstanding-schools-lose-top-ofsted-grade/) 4/5ths of outstanding schools were downgraded on re-inspection.
Anything can happen in 8 years, schools standings may go up or down catchment areas might change.
You can also apply to school when youāre outside the catchment area and if there is space you might get in.
What about primary schools? Having a family house within walking and catchment of outstanding schools will always command a big premium. Not many schools go from outstanding to shocking.
I'm going to go against the trend here and say yes you should focus on the catchment. Yes schools change but moving house is expensive and that time rolls around quickly.
Remember that if you wanted to move for a different school you need to already have moved (exchanged contracts in our area) to be in the catchment of that school when you apply for secondary which is September? the year before. The process of finding a house and moving could take a year so really you are looking at starting your moving process close to two years before the start of secondary school. That's only six/seven years away for your 3 year old and time flies.
Also you and your kid will likely pick up a whole range of new friends and if you then move to a new catchment then you will disturb that.
Finally although pupil numbers may drop our primary school has responded by reducing their number of classes to compensate. There won't be 800,000 free spaces in schools they simply don't have the budget for that there will be X number fewer teachers and class sizes will remain the same size unless there is a massive increase in school funding over that time.
Thanks, points to consider and agreed on timeframes, never as long as you think once deadlines come into play! We do have a final backup of a day girls private school but being from a mixed state school myself it isn't my preferred option at all.
I brought in the catchment area of one of the worst secondary schools but with really good primary schools, this was in 2006, now the same secondary school is one of the better ones and my child loves it there
My old village had this problem. Beautiful village, great location, amazing primary school, the secondary school is awful.
The village is a revolving door. People move in with young kids thinking 10 years is a long time, then move out. Others use middle class pointy elbows to try get in other schools. We moved out.
The difference here though is the school is terrible, worst case your school is still good.
We are moving for schools (4 and 1 year olds), and when we moved into where we are now 3 years ago it had (stupidly) never even occurred to us. Now our oldest is in reception and we are desperate to move. So if I were you then yes you should definitely consider schools as a priority as you might be moving again in a few years!
Not being in a catchment area does not necessarily mean having no chances of getting admitted to school. Applicants from within the catchment area normally get a higher priority, but if they donāt fill all the places, applicants from outside the catchment will normally be admitted too, usually ranked by distance.
Have you seen the admission stats of your preferred school over the last several years? You can normally find them online, or make a freedom of information request. This would help you figure out very roughly whatās the chance of your kid being admitted. Of course, eight years is a long time, but you will at least have an idea.
You need to think about your long term future, which is not easy! Better (I know this is subjective) schools tend to be in the suburbs or satellite towns. These are good places to live during school years but once your kids clear off you might prefer to live in a city again as your social life becomes more important and accessible to you (e.g. you can do what you want whenever you want without worrying about kids).
Yes, but I was merely offering a potential solution that hadn't been stated. Besides they can offset that cost by renting their house. Fuck me for helping. I'm done with this sub you ungrateful pricks.
Why do you think the pupil number will drop? UK has population increases like never before in the history. More than million people immigrate every year. Iām expecting the competition to dramatically increase in next decade.
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, please report them via the report button. * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As you rightly say, 8 years is a long in your life and also the life of a school. A lot can change between now and then!
Thanks for the response. Just reconfirms our current thoughts. š
Catchments change Also a new headteacher, couple of bad ofsteds and the two schools may look very different when you apply
Completely agree. The secondary school I went to was Ofsted 'Good' 8ish years ago when I left. The latest inspection has put it into special measures.
Agreed, but also Ofsted reports are not the last word on school quality. Put my son in a "good" school... He got daily death threats to himself and to me, at 8 years old. School did nothing. 20 of his classmates basically banded together to prey on one kid (was a different kid before my son arrived) and it was relentless and incredibly traumatic.
Oh I didn't mean that, more that good teachers abandon schools which have bad ofsteds so the quality often goes down quickly. I'm sorry you experienced that.
I was in a similar situation recently, we moved just before the oldest started primary school and the younger one still in nursery. We just focused on catchment areas for primary schools, and for secondary we just made sure they were 'ok' as 8 years is a long time anything can happen to a school. It's just luck of the draw in 8 years time in my opinion
This is the same as us. We prioritised getting into the catchment area for a fantastic primary and then maxed the budget to be on the borders of a fantastic secondary with a good back up secondary. You don't know how things will change in 8yrs but if you're in an area with a cluster of good primaries and secondaries it's less likely that all of the options will change drastically in less than a decade.
8 years is a long time. My oldest is going to a secondary school that is fantastic now, but was the worst of the worst 10 years ago. A new trust came in 4 years ago and has turned it around to the point where they had double the applications to spaces. Even with primary schools - donāt go by ofsted rating alone, a ārequires improvingā school could have the values and culture you are looking for. My youngest would have struggled at our local outstanding primary school due to their teaching methods. He has flourished at a school with a worse ofsted rating but that focuses on outdoor learning. If it were me, I would make sure I had at least some options for when the time comes and then get the house! There are just too many variables to have a solid plan right now school wise so I would go with what I can do here and now. But thatās just me!
I'd still go for it, When I first moved our catchment primary was awful, luckily I got my eldest into a best primary across town and my middle children went there too, they then went on to the catchment secondary school which is good, My youngest (I have a big age gap with the youngest to the older 3) has gone to the catchment primary as over the last 12 years it has been taken over and has now become a really good school! There's a lot of years between now and secondary school and a lot can change.
My thoughts: Schools change hugely over a few years, a new head teacher can make such a difference both positive and negative. What's the primary school like? A 0-11 year old is 11 years of going to a primary school every day. Is the commute easy, accessible etc? Secondary school - the 0 year old if staying on till a-level will take 18 years until 2042. That's a long time - thus getting your decisions aligned is crucial. E.g. [https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pupil-number-forecast-revised-up-but-steep-decline-still-expected/](https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pupil-number-forecast-revised-up-but-steep-decline-still-expected/) You never know what the government will do/schools will change around boundaries - but if you are in the catchment (e.g. move to the area) you are reducing the risk of not getting into the school (by being in the current catchment) but there's still plenty of unknown variables.
Primary is "Good" as are a few others around us we could probably attend. We havnt yet started visiting them but am comfortable from what we know of them.
We recently moved and purposely bought a house super close to one of the better primary schools in the area. Itās a game changer. No longer getting the kids in car and driving 15 minutes for the drop off then rushing back for work. We literally walk them to end of street. For the next 6-8 years (have a kid Iām nursery) we will save an enormous amount of faff. Some days thereās sports clubs after school and I see so many kids and parents sitting in cars for 30 minutes before after-school activities start. We can just walk back home, feed them, and drop them back off. One mother gets the bus and walks her kids to school, takes 35 minutes each way. Thatās a monumental commitment for next 6-8 years. People often favour house over location, but we are so glad we went for location. It certainly matters and shouldnāt be overlooked.
Agreed - fortunately we're in a market town and the primary school is a short walk away. The secondary (the one which right now is the "better" one) is a 20-25 min walk. Thanks
Is it a recent ofsted report for an outstanding secondary school (is there a track record of outstanding?). Check the exam results for the last few years (barring covid). Worth having a chat with the headmaster, to gauge what itāll be like in 8 years time. Distance to schooling would factor in your next home. But that will come at a premium š„². Some people move after one sibling gets into the secondary based on the school allocation rules.
I would check if this is a recent outstanding rating. The criteria changed in 2019 - and according to [https://schoolsweek.co.uk/four-in-five-outstanding-schools-lose-top-ofsted-grade/](https://schoolsweek.co.uk/four-in-five-outstanding-schools-lose-top-ofsted-grade/) 4/5ths of outstanding schools were downgraded on re-inspection.
Where we are, catchment areas alter every year depending on birth rates for the area, have a check on that.
Anything can happen in 8 years, schools standings may go up or down catchment areas might change. You can also apply to school when youāre outside the catchment area and if there is space you might get in.
What about primary schools? Having a family house within walking and catchment of outstanding schools will always command a big premium. Not many schools go from outstanding to shocking.
I'm going to go against the trend here and say yes you should focus on the catchment. Yes schools change but moving house is expensive and that time rolls around quickly. Remember that if you wanted to move for a different school you need to already have moved (exchanged contracts in our area) to be in the catchment of that school when you apply for secondary which is September? the year before. The process of finding a house and moving could take a year so really you are looking at starting your moving process close to two years before the start of secondary school. That's only six/seven years away for your 3 year old and time flies. Also you and your kid will likely pick up a whole range of new friends and if you then move to a new catchment then you will disturb that. Finally although pupil numbers may drop our primary school has responded by reducing their number of classes to compensate. There won't be 800,000 free spaces in schools they simply don't have the budget for that there will be X number fewer teachers and class sizes will remain the same size unless there is a massive increase in school funding over that time.
Thanks, points to consider and agreed on timeframes, never as long as you think once deadlines come into play! We do have a final backup of a day girls private school but being from a mixed state school myself it isn't my preferred option at all.
I brought in the catchment area of one of the worst secondary schools but with really good primary schools, this was in 2006, now the same secondary school is one of the better ones and my child loves it there
My old village had this problem. Beautiful village, great location, amazing primary school, the secondary school is awful. The village is a revolving door. People move in with young kids thinking 10 years is a long time, then move out. Others use middle class pointy elbows to try get in other schools. We moved out. The difference here though is the school is terrible, worst case your school is still good.
We are moving for schools (4 and 1 year olds), and when we moved into where we are now 3 years ago it had (stupidly) never even occurred to us. Now our oldest is in reception and we are desperate to move. So if I were you then yes you should definitely consider schools as a priority as you might be moving again in a few years!
Not being in a catchment area does not necessarily mean having no chances of getting admitted to school. Applicants from within the catchment area normally get a higher priority, but if they donāt fill all the places, applicants from outside the catchment will normally be admitted too, usually ranked by distance. Have you seen the admission stats of your preferred school over the last several years? You can normally find them online, or make a freedom of information request. This would help you figure out very roughly whatās the chance of your kid being admitted. Of course, eight years is a long time, but you will at least have an idea.
school around our way cant get enough pupils to fill them up so i doubt you have issues in 8 year getting them in
You need to think about your long term future, which is not easy! Better (I know this is subjective) schools tend to be in the suburbs or satellite towns. These are good places to live during school years but once your kids clear off you might prefer to live in a city again as your social life becomes more important and accessible to you (e.g. you can do what you want whenever you want without worrying about kids).
I would agree with your assessment, 8 years is a long time. Even if you moved at that point, this home would still have been a long term home.
If it's such a concern then just before the first one starts secondary school rent a house in that school's catchment for a year.
Not many people, comparatively, have the amount of disposal income to throw at a rental for a year just to have a post-code.
Yes, but I was merely offering a potential solution that hadn't been stated. Besides they can offset that cost by renting their house. Fuck me for helping. I'm done with this sub you ungrateful pricks.
ššš that escalated quickly.
Thanks Kojak. Options always welcome.
Why do you think the pupil number will drop? UK has population increases like never before in the history. More than million people immigrate every year. Iām expecting the competition to dramatically increase in next decade.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2024/apr/11/english-schools-could-lose-1bn-by-2030-as-pupil-numbers-fall
Interesting, thanks for sharing