Yes chrollo changed his abilities off screen. How would that not lower stakes if someone comes with a new ability same thing with gon vs pitou gon fundamentally changed his nen ability and he survived instead of dying by pitou
>Yes chrollo changed his abilities off screen.
No he made a 2nd ability.
>pitou gon fundamentally changed his nen ability
No he made a new ability.
His jajanken hasn't changed.
You may consider it a Deux ex Machina, but the truth is that all of those "changes" have consecuences. Gon made a Nen contract, he would have died for all practical purposes if it weren't for Nanika's intervention.
In the case of Chrollo, he said himself that for him to use that book mark (secondary hatsu) he has to follow some annoying conditions (Ch. 351 Page 25). I always wondered why Chrollo explained all of the hatsus he was going to use to his opponent (Hisoka). Maybe it was just expositional so we - the readers - understand what is about to happen, but maybe explaining how the skills work is part of the conditions for his book mark to be usable? Who knows. Hopefully he goes into it in deepth when he innevitable fights Hisoka again.
I don't see it as a problem, as long as the writer is consistent with the story and skills.
You are totally correct, he was controlling the referee with Sharlark's Black Voice and then exploited him with Sun and Moon.
So... I guess we will havee to what and read Togashi's explanation if it comes to that.
The marks disapear when he changes skills, otherwise h wouldn't be able to use the swap bodies hatsu. Remember he has 2 two-handed skills now.
The marks of sun and moon in 3rd parties remain but Chrollo's hands get cleaned when hee turns it off, otherwise his hands would still be marked right now while he is in the voyage.
But the problem is it hasn't been explained yet and we don't know how contracts are formed. And technically it's better that gon got crippled then dying from just fighting normally right? So contracts are asspulls. Also how does it know when it's strong enough
There is a lot to unpack there.
Chrollo's new conditions for his bookmark usage hasn't been explained as of yet, that is ok. Not everything has to be explained on the spot, maybe Togashi will in the future. All we know and all we need to know is that Chrollo HAS new restrictions that even he considers annoying to deal with, that is enough for us not to think that this is an ass-pull. Because if follows the logic of the series.
We do know how contracts are made, since Izunabi explained to Kurapika. You set a condition or vow to yourself, if you keep it then your skill gets stronger (but never absolute), and if you break it then your skills becomes useless. The stronger the vow or sacrifice, the stronger the reward. That is why he set his vow to "If I use Chain Jail on a non Ryodan Member, then I will die", thus making Chain Jail super stong, but not "absolutly strong" that is why he had to test it with Uvogin first. A similar thing happens in the case of Gon, he said "I don't care anymore, I'll use everything" so he made a contract with himself, in which he gets to use "everything", and we got a little more insight about it from Pitou's point of view "I'm so glad... He was forced to use all his potential in order to get this power, he is prepared to never use nen again". And that "reward" a.k.a the power up he had also has severe consecuences, since the moment Gon destroyed the enemy he fell into a coma and was heading towards certain death. We even have more insight from Ging on the matter, when Gon calls him via phone asking if he had detected his aura on top of the world tree, and Ging said yes, but since he got returned to "normal" by Nanika he cannot see his own aura, and he shouldn't be sad, he should feel lucky and grateful, since he made such a nasty vow.
Also remember that Gon actually lost half an arm in his fight against Gentru, which is Togashi saying selfish actions have consecuences. The fact that he got to recover it via other means does not undo the lesson.
You have to learn how to understand the power of Nen, it makes sense in most aspects. But as you can see in the manga, it's still in development, we got recently introduced to the conncept of Parasitic Nen, new subdivitions of manipulation (coercitive, semi coercitive and so on) and even Togashi went in deepth with nen curses with Camilla's soldiers trying to curse to death each prince. The concept of nen is a work in progress, but it makes sense.
EDIT: Grammar.
Logic. You could clearly swim, jsut mov your arms. If you re word that as "You become unable to move when entering a pool of water" then that would be a very bad Hatsu. It would make no sense, and congrats you are inmmun to fire, I'll just kill you with regular violence, a gun, or drop you in a pool. Why would someone create a hatsu like that. This isn't one piece.
I think it was Togashi deciding to give new freedom to Chrollo under the excuse of "Hisoka is a strong opponent, and Chrollo is somewhat limited due to his hatsu, lets make him more versatile with a new hatsu he develops on the year he was running away from Hisoka"
Not everything has to be set in stone from the get go, it is something i found hard to understand myself when I was young, but now I totally understand. Togashi requires freedom and needs the room to develop new aspects in already establishd characters, that makes for good story telling, and we know for a fact that Togashi never disapoints when it comes to storytelling, so I'd advice trusting in Togashi's creative process, all modification he has made so far has made sense withing the logic and the story.
Well, Chrollo at the beginning of the fight he explained all the abilities he would be using and even if he didn't, he won the fight in fair way anyway :3
But isn't it a problem that chrollo fundamentally changed his contract for skilled hunter to now leave the book closed? Doesn't it make it seem like anyone could alter an ability that hard?
Well, yes you can but it will look more like this - You are immune to Fire but any form of Water or A liquid that can extinguish a fire will deal very high damage to you and even your own Blood starts to cause internal injury :3
Nen users cannot change their abilities by themselves.
During a fight you can create a new ability but such a short time means you can't think enough about your ability, therefore it wouldn't be good (an example is Cheetu vs Morel)
The more abilities you have and less good they'd be since you wouldn't be able to train your nen affinities for all of them. (Kurapika is an exception with his emperor time making him use his abilities at max power)
Nen users cannot change restrictions of their abilities. Other abilities can just compensate already existing restrictions (thus making combos) but such abilities have restrictions on their own.
Didn't chrollo and kurapika change there abilities in where chrollo gained a bookmark out of no where making th book work differently and kurapika made it so judgment chain can be used on anyone?
The theoretical possible of that happening is still a plothole and makes nen bad
>Didn't chrollo and kurapika change there abilities in where chrollo gained a bookmark
to make an ability is not changing your ability
> kurapika made it so judgment chain can be used on anyone?
kurapika never changed judgment chain, he initially wanted judgment chain to only work on the troupe but didn't made it since he would not be able to change it. and since he wanted to use it on himself he couldn't make judgment chain a target only ability. so when he made judgment chain it work on everyone and he can't change it.
No chrollo made a 2nd ability: "double face", chrollo couldn't do anything to "skill hunter", skill hunter itself hasn't changed.
double face is an ability with the effect to be able to use abilities from skill hunter as if the book was opened and held by chrollo but only on a page bookmarked by double face.
this can be done as a combo when chrollo actually opens skill hunter and hold it; he got the access to the opened page's ability, and if he use double face he can access to an ability "bookmarked", and it's double face which allow him to use that ability, not skill hunter's own effect (because with skill hunter you can only use the ability from the open page)
When chrollo used "gallery fake", he required to simultaneously use 3 abilities: skill hunter, double face and gallery fake.
but against the zoldycks when he used fun fun cloth he only had to use 2 abilities at once: skill hunter and fun fun cloth.
skill hunter still has all its restriction: holding the book and open a page to access the opened page's ability. if the book si closed then the
the bookmark is a different ability with an effect specifically made to compensate a weakness from skill hunter (not being able to use 2 handed abilities), but it has its restrictions and condition on its own (which aren't revealed yet)
Doesn't Chrollo say ***"The bookmark comes with the book. It is my own ability and not stolen. So it is an ability to use two stolen abilities at once"*** (chapter 351)
Doesn't this explicitly state that they are part of the same ability?
Yet Chrollo said he was using 4 different abilities at the same time. The bookmark is a nen ability, it has a distinctive name "double face: bookmark theme" like "skill hunter: bandit's secret", "bungee gum: elastic love" etc
The "comes with the book" might have a wording issue in english. What Chrollo was saying is that the bookmark isn't the only thing he was using, he also needed to use the book. He was using the bookmark and the book.
Well to me it seems as if he is correcting Hisoka. Hisoka states that Bookmark + the other two amounts to three abilities, then Chrollo replies **"*****In that case the book itself would make it quadruple. The bookmark comes with the book*****."** etc etc
You can't really shoe away the line ***"comes with the book",*** as according to the official translation it is part of the same ability. You would need to prove this is a mistranslation.
>You can't really shoe away the line "comes with the book"
it doesn't mean it's part of skill hunter. "comes with the book" means it's used with the book and not used alone, it's attached to it, it can only be used with the book which is a separated ability.
I also read HxH in other languages such as in french (I got the french volumes) and in french Chrollo says (translation from french to english): "then I use 4 abilities since the book is an ability on its own, this bookmark is attached to the book and is an ability I made myself, not one I've stolen"
so if we also check what he originally say sin japanese we got that: "それを言うなら本も含めてクアドラプルだな. この栞は本に付属する. オレの能力で,盗んだものじゃない." which is the same a sin english and french.
chrollo literally says the bookmark is a nen ability and the the book is a separate ability. and it's also what he says in english in the full page.
everything about double face in the manga indicates it's a separate nen ability, it's not skill hunter, else it would be called skill hunter: bandit's secret, not double face: bookmark theme and chrollo would never refers to the bookmark as a separate nen ability.
>everything about double face in the manga indicates it's a separate nen ability
Not really in the Viz translation. As can be seen in the next couple of lines as they still suggest abilities can be altered. How was this translated into French?
***"Skill Hunter required me to hold the book with my right hand when I conceived it. But when I stole an ability that required both hands, I was forced to make some adjustments..."***
As you can see he is speaking in the past tense.
>chrollo literally says the bookmark is a nen ability and the the book is a separate ability. and it's also what he says in english in the full page.
This is a false statement.
>Not really in the Viz translation.
"comes with" means attached to the book, not part of the same nen ability. the japanese kanji says that.
chrollo is syaing that there's not just the bookmark but also the book and to use the book is to use a nen ability by itself.
if the bookmark was a part of skill hunter then it wouldn't have a full ability name. only nen abilities have a name + a flavor text.
>As you can see he is speaking in the past tense.
chrollo still needs to hold his book when using skill hunter
the adjustment he made was to make a new ability to counter skill hunter's flaw
>This is a false statement.
no, chrollo literally says hit's a different ability, as he uses 4 abilities and when he says "the bookmark is an ability I made, not a stolen one", else he would never ever say that if double face was just skill hunter)
double face and skill hunter are different abilities interacting together like how emperor time interacts with steal chain.
>double face and skill hunter are different abilities
I can accept that based on the French translation but it is not as clear in the English version. Despite it having its own distinct name there is no reason this couldn't be done with aspects of an ability within an ability. For example Netero's 100-Type Guanyin Bodhisattva.
He never literally says it is a separate ability if you interpret it as correcting Hisoka and that "come with the book" means they are part of the same ability. Which makes perfect sense using the VIz translation.
**"the bookmark is an ability I made, not a stolen one"**
Except this is not what is written in Viz. You have changed it to make it seem more explicit.
>chrollo still needs to hold his book when using skill hunter
the adjustment he made was to make a new ability to counter skill hunter's flaw
I was more interested in the words "required" which means it no longer requires, and "when I conceived it". Which is the past tense, when he is specifically talking about Skill Hunter. This means it has changed, which of course doesn't make sense if they, in fact, have not changed at all.
Chrollo literally said he changed his bandit book so he could use abilities that need 2 hands. You can change your ability, but it not like putting in a different SSD, shit takes work. Along with ging, using nen to ‘mimic’ lerorios abilities. He’s not changing his abilities he’s just using basic principles of nen. Im assuming a lot of top tier nen users can mimic other abilities in their own categories(specialist excluded) with tons of practice of course
Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that it depends on what the rules are (if any) in changing one's ability. We have never seen someone changing the conditions to their ability before, and it never happens mid-fight, so it's highly possible that it actually takes some time, or have some rules that must be followed.
In the case of Chrollo, he slightly changes the condition to his ability in preparation for his fight with Hisoka, not during the fight. I don't think anyone is capable of changing their abilities on the fly, and no one on the show has ever done that before, so it's safe to assume it's not possible (if it is, then why isn't anyone doing it?).
In the case of Gon (which you mentioned in another comment), he did not change his ability. He made an exchange for his form at his peak, and he lost his nen because of it.
If there is no real limits defined yet what stops someone from making anything like bungee gun if they are a transmutet or instead of going at anytime I will die or even loose 10 years of life for more power. It's bad if anyone could theoretically do it
Nothing stops anyone from creating Bungee Gum, as it is possible to make. However, it is well established that you need to find an ability that suits you and your personality. Making things of the fly make for weak ability.
It is a bartering system. The greater the risk, difficulty or price the better the ability will be. I don't see the problem and think it is pretty awesome actually. But you do also need base-level skills.
Cheetu got his abilities from Pouf, so it's different. It can be assumed that it gives him the capability to conjure anything (first the space, and then the crossbow)
First off, no one has ever changed their ability mid-fight. People can create new abilities through training. It just so happens that the only training we sit down to watch are Gon and Killua's. All the other characters are doing similar things in between encounters with them. The only time someone's powers change mid-fight is when Gon decides to expend the entirety of his nen + life energy in one insane burst. No one else we've seen so far is stubborn/angry enough to do that, even when death is on the line. Meanwhile Gon has done something similar with almost every major fight. His default mode is sacrificing himself to gain power or prove his mettle.
Imo the real problem is specialists. Kurapika and Chrollo are the king of "I made this ability just to beat you" but still having other abilities that can just beat everyone. Why does it matter if Kurapika can't use judgement chain on others if he has other moves that put him above most nen users anyways?
HunterxHunter goes out of its way to explain the entire system and think it through in-depth, only to say "Oh yeah but none of those rules apply to specialists."
So far in HxH, no character has changed their ability mid-fight but there's been problem of imbalance in nen condition and power boost one recieve and the other one is instant nen vows. Both of em are problematic.
>imbalance
This one is very apparent between pitou & kite. Pitou give all her aura, which is only second to meruem, and still couldn't make an ability to revive dead but kite could achieve it through 1 of 9 abilities he had while still not going memory bankruptcy.
The other one is Adult gon, sure he sacrificed his nen but there is no absolute scale to measure how much power he should get in return. His power up is very similar to deku's power up against over haul on technicalities but togashi just happen to write it better.
>instant nen vow.
Both kurapika and chrollo took their time to put condition on their nen and then realised it into power. Opposite to this we have gon & Hisoka who could just make vows & condition on instant.
As you could have guess the bias already lean towards protagonists which is normal for shonen mangas.
Then it's horrible how this could happen then. Stands/quirks are far better because no one just makes a new ability on the fly. And art stuck to one trait
Lmao, i just nitpicked it for you. I haven't read jojo but as for quirks, they're very cartoonish. On a pure concept base, nen is better system because it has element of both surprise and restrictions while still grounded to reality, there are exceptions.
Any power system can be great if written well. Quirks could've been good too but they aren't handled properly. As for nen, there are mismanagement which are subjective but all of them were executed in it's best possibilities. So, it's wrong to put quirks over nen.
I never felt like this happened. I wish they’d explained what the Conditions on Chrollos double face are, but it’s not like he came up with the ability mid-fight. He had a year to develop it. As for Gon, the transformation always felt natural to me. The only time a character literally thought of some Ramdom shit on the fly, it was Cheetu. And he was dumb
So no. The only ability I have a problem with is Hisoka reviving himself. That was a kinda dumb
In world wisdom is that a half baked Ability is usually unreliable and difficult to use, greed island onward we see gon and killua gradually grow to understand there abilities and how to strategize to use them effectively. Even Gon’s transformation almost killed him, he just got lucky the ability was strong enough.
You mean Chrollo vs Hisoka? :3
Yes chrollo changed his abilities off screen. How would that not lower stakes if someone comes with a new ability same thing with gon vs pitou gon fundamentally changed his nen ability and he survived instead of dying by pitou
>Yes chrollo changed his abilities off screen. No he made a 2nd ability. >pitou gon fundamentally changed his nen ability No he made a new ability. His jajanken hasn't changed.
Don't you see it as a problem if anyone can just make another ability
You may consider it a Deux ex Machina, but the truth is that all of those "changes" have consecuences. Gon made a Nen contract, he would have died for all practical purposes if it weren't for Nanika's intervention. In the case of Chrollo, he said himself that for him to use that book mark (secondary hatsu) he has to follow some annoying conditions (Ch. 351 Page 25). I always wondered why Chrollo explained all of the hatsus he was going to use to his opponent (Hisoka). Maybe it was just expositional so we - the readers - understand what is about to happen, but maybe explaining how the skills work is part of the conditions for his book mark to be usable? Who knows. Hopefully he goes into it in deepth when he innevitable fights Hisoka again. I don't see it as a problem, as long as the writer is consistent with the story and skills.
If i remember correctly, chrollo used 2 abilities at the same time before explaining bookmark
You are totally correct, he was controlling the referee with Sharlark's Black Voice and then exploited him with Sun and Moon. So... I guess we will havee to what and read Togashi's explanation if it comes to that.
Sun and moon is a result of post Mortem nen, so I believe it still works even if Chrollo doesn’t have it open
The marks disapear when he changes skills, otherwise h wouldn't be able to use the swap bodies hatsu. Remember he has 2 two-handed skills now. The marks of sun and moon in 3rd parties remain but Chrollo's hands get cleaned when hee turns it off, otherwise his hands would still be marked right now while he is in the voyage.
But the problem is it hasn't been explained yet and we don't know how contracts are formed. And technically it's better that gon got crippled then dying from just fighting normally right? So contracts are asspulls. Also how does it know when it's strong enough
There is a lot to unpack there. Chrollo's new conditions for his bookmark usage hasn't been explained as of yet, that is ok. Not everything has to be explained on the spot, maybe Togashi will in the future. All we know and all we need to know is that Chrollo HAS new restrictions that even he considers annoying to deal with, that is enough for us not to think that this is an ass-pull. Because if follows the logic of the series. We do know how contracts are made, since Izunabi explained to Kurapika. You set a condition or vow to yourself, if you keep it then your skill gets stronger (but never absolute), and if you break it then your skills becomes useless. The stronger the vow or sacrifice, the stronger the reward. That is why he set his vow to "If I use Chain Jail on a non Ryodan Member, then I will die", thus making Chain Jail super stong, but not "absolutly strong" that is why he had to test it with Uvogin first. A similar thing happens in the case of Gon, he said "I don't care anymore, I'll use everything" so he made a contract with himself, in which he gets to use "everything", and we got a little more insight about it from Pitou's point of view "I'm so glad... He was forced to use all his potential in order to get this power, he is prepared to never use nen again". And that "reward" a.k.a the power up he had also has severe consecuences, since the moment Gon destroyed the enemy he fell into a coma and was heading towards certain death. We even have more insight from Ging on the matter, when Gon calls him via phone asking if he had detected his aura on top of the world tree, and Ging said yes, but since he got returned to "normal" by Nanika he cannot see his own aura, and he shouldn't be sad, he should feel lucky and grateful, since he made such a nasty vow. Also remember that Gon actually lost half an arm in his fight against Gentru, which is Togashi saying selfish actions have consecuences. The fact that he got to recover it via other means does not undo the lesson. You have to learn how to understand the power of Nen, it makes sense in most aspects. But as you can see in the manga, it's still in development, we got recently introduced to the conncept of Parasitic Nen, new subdivitions of manipulation (coercitive, semi coercitive and so on) and even Togashi went in deepth with nen curses with Camilla's soldiers trying to curse to death each prince. The concept of nen is a work in progress, but it makes sense. EDIT: Grammar.
Alright but ahats stopping me from making a nen ability that makes me immune to fire but I can no longer swim?
Nothing. You could make some dumbass ability if you have the skill to do so, but you’d just get murked by someone who isn’t stupid
Logic. You could clearly swim, jsut mov your arms. If you re word that as "You become unable to move when entering a pool of water" then that would be a very bad Hatsu. It would make no sense, and congrats you are inmmun to fire, I'll just kill you with regular violence, a gun, or drop you in a pool. Why would someone create a hatsu like that. This isn't one piece.
But the problem I can is a problem. What makes it so I can be immune to fire but take alot of damage from electricity
Why didn't chrollo make double face earlier why now?
I think it was Togashi deciding to give new freedom to Chrollo under the excuse of "Hisoka is a strong opponent, and Chrollo is somewhat limited due to his hatsu, lets make him more versatile with a new hatsu he develops on the year he was running away from Hisoka" Not everything has to be set in stone from the get go, it is something i found hard to understand myself when I was young, but now I totally understand. Togashi requires freedom and needs the room to develop new aspects in already establishd characters, that makes for good story telling, and we know for a fact that Togashi never disapoints when it comes to storytelling, so I'd advice trusting in Togashi's creative process, all modification he has made so far has made sense withing the logic and the story.
Then it's just a asspull right? Nothing stopped him from doing it from the beginning why do it against hisoka
Well, Chrollo at the beginning of the fight he explained all the abilities he would be using and even if he didn't, he won the fight in fair way anyway :3
But isn't it a problem that chrollo fundamentally changed his contract for skilled hunter to now leave the book closed? Doesn't it make it seem like anyone could alter an ability that hard?
Bc he added to the ability with the bookmark
Another thing what prevents someone from making an ability that makes them immune to an element like fire
Pain Packer? :3
Yes, don't you think it's a problem that pain packer exists? Can't anyone just say I'm immune to Fire but I can no longer swim?
Well, yes you can but it will look more like this - You are immune to Fire but any form of Water or A liquid that can extinguish a fire will deal very high damage to you and even your own Blood starts to cause internal injury :3
Then how bout I'm immune to fire but I can't just swim in water.
Then your fire resistance will not be 100% for sure :3
Like is there a definite what I can't do with nen
Not really :3
Then doesn't it make it incredibly flawed?
Nen users cannot change their abilities by themselves. During a fight you can create a new ability but such a short time means you can't think enough about your ability, therefore it wouldn't be good (an example is Cheetu vs Morel) The more abilities you have and less good they'd be since you wouldn't be able to train your nen affinities for all of them. (Kurapika is an exception with his emperor time making him use his abilities at max power) Nen users cannot change restrictions of their abilities. Other abilities can just compensate already existing restrictions (thus making combos) but such abilities have restrictions on their own.
Didn't chrollo and kurapika change there abilities in where chrollo gained a bookmark out of no where making th book work differently and kurapika made it so judgment chain can be used on anyone? The theoretical possible of that happening is still a plothole and makes nen bad
>Didn't chrollo and kurapika change there abilities in where chrollo gained a bookmark to make an ability is not changing your ability > kurapika made it so judgment chain can be used on anyone? kurapika never changed judgment chain, he initially wanted judgment chain to only work on the troupe but didn't made it since he would not be able to change it. and since he wanted to use it on himself he couldn't make judgment chain a target only ability. so when he made judgment chain it work on everyone and he can't change it.
You can alter your abilities, this was done by Chrollo.
No chrollo made a 2nd ability: "double face", chrollo couldn't do anything to "skill hunter", skill hunter itself hasn't changed. double face is an ability with the effect to be able to use abilities from skill hunter as if the book was opened and held by chrollo but only on a page bookmarked by double face. this can be done as a combo when chrollo actually opens skill hunter and hold it; he got the access to the opened page's ability, and if he use double face he can access to an ability "bookmarked", and it's double face which allow him to use that ability, not skill hunter's own effect (because with skill hunter you can only use the ability from the open page) When chrollo used "gallery fake", he required to simultaneously use 3 abilities: skill hunter, double face and gallery fake. but against the zoldycks when he used fun fun cloth he only had to use 2 abilities at once: skill hunter and fun fun cloth. skill hunter still has all its restriction: holding the book and open a page to access the opened page's ability. if the book si closed then the the bookmark is a different ability with an effect specifically made to compensate a weakness from skill hunter (not being able to use 2 handed abilities), but it has its restrictions and condition on its own (which aren't revealed yet)
Doesn't Chrollo say ***"The bookmark comes with the book. It is my own ability and not stolen. So it is an ability to use two stolen abilities at once"*** (chapter 351) Doesn't this explicitly state that they are part of the same ability?
Yet Chrollo said he was using 4 different abilities at the same time. The bookmark is a nen ability, it has a distinctive name "double face: bookmark theme" like "skill hunter: bandit's secret", "bungee gum: elastic love" etc The "comes with the book" might have a wording issue in english. What Chrollo was saying is that the bookmark isn't the only thing he was using, he also needed to use the book. He was using the bookmark and the book.
Well to me it seems as if he is correcting Hisoka. Hisoka states that Bookmark + the other two amounts to three abilities, then Chrollo replies **"*****In that case the book itself would make it quadruple. The bookmark comes with the book*****."** etc etc You can't really shoe away the line ***"comes with the book",*** as according to the official translation it is part of the same ability. You would need to prove this is a mistranslation.
>You can't really shoe away the line "comes with the book" it doesn't mean it's part of skill hunter. "comes with the book" means it's used with the book and not used alone, it's attached to it, it can only be used with the book which is a separated ability. I also read HxH in other languages such as in french (I got the french volumes) and in french Chrollo says (translation from french to english): "then I use 4 abilities since the book is an ability on its own, this bookmark is attached to the book and is an ability I made myself, not one I've stolen" so if we also check what he originally say sin japanese we got that: "それを言うなら本も含めてクアドラプルだな. この栞は本に付属する. オレの能力で,盗んだものじゃない." which is the same a sin english and french. chrollo literally says the bookmark is a nen ability and the the book is a separate ability. and it's also what he says in english in the full page. everything about double face in the manga indicates it's a separate nen ability, it's not skill hunter, else it would be called skill hunter: bandit's secret, not double face: bookmark theme and chrollo would never refers to the bookmark as a separate nen ability.
>everything about double face in the manga indicates it's a separate nen ability Not really in the Viz translation. As can be seen in the next couple of lines as they still suggest abilities can be altered. How was this translated into French? ***"Skill Hunter required me to hold the book with my right hand when I conceived it. But when I stole an ability that required both hands, I was forced to make some adjustments..."*** As you can see he is speaking in the past tense. >chrollo literally says the bookmark is a nen ability and the the book is a separate ability. and it's also what he says in english in the full page. This is a false statement.
>Not really in the Viz translation. "comes with" means attached to the book, not part of the same nen ability. the japanese kanji says that. chrollo is syaing that there's not just the bookmark but also the book and to use the book is to use a nen ability by itself. if the bookmark was a part of skill hunter then it wouldn't have a full ability name. only nen abilities have a name + a flavor text. >As you can see he is speaking in the past tense. chrollo still needs to hold his book when using skill hunter the adjustment he made was to make a new ability to counter skill hunter's flaw >This is a false statement. no, chrollo literally says hit's a different ability, as he uses 4 abilities and when he says "the bookmark is an ability I made, not a stolen one", else he would never ever say that if double face was just skill hunter) double face and skill hunter are different abilities interacting together like how emperor time interacts with steal chain.
>double face and skill hunter are different abilities I can accept that based on the French translation but it is not as clear in the English version. Despite it having its own distinct name there is no reason this couldn't be done with aspects of an ability within an ability. For example Netero's 100-Type Guanyin Bodhisattva. He never literally says it is a separate ability if you interpret it as correcting Hisoka and that "come with the book" means they are part of the same ability. Which makes perfect sense using the VIz translation. **"the bookmark is an ability I made, not a stolen one"** Except this is not what is written in Viz. You have changed it to make it seem more explicit. >chrollo still needs to hold his book when using skill hunter the adjustment he made was to make a new ability to counter skill hunter's flaw I was more interested in the words "required" which means it no longer requires, and "when I conceived it". Which is the past tense, when he is specifically talking about Skill Hunter. This means it has changed, which of course doesn't make sense if they, in fact, have not changed at all.
Chrollo literally said he changed his bandit book so he could use abilities that need 2 hands. You can change your ability, but it not like putting in a different SSD, shit takes work. Along with ging, using nen to ‘mimic’ lerorios abilities. He’s not changing his abilities he’s just using basic principles of nen. Im assuming a lot of top tier nen users can mimic other abilities in their own categories(specialist excluded) with tons of practice of course
I think you meant to message the other guy.
Bruh I hate how Reddit works lol. Anyway he can still see it 😂🤣 mb
Short answer is yes. Longer answer is that it depends on what the rules are (if any) in changing one's ability. We have never seen someone changing the conditions to their ability before, and it never happens mid-fight, so it's highly possible that it actually takes some time, or have some rules that must be followed. In the case of Chrollo, he slightly changes the condition to his ability in preparation for his fight with Hisoka, not during the fight. I don't think anyone is capable of changing their abilities on the fly, and no one on the show has ever done that before, so it's safe to assume it's not possible (if it is, then why isn't anyone doing it?). In the case of Gon (which you mentioned in another comment), he did not change his ability. He made an exchange for his form at his peak, and he lost his nen because of it.
Cheetu did it on the fly, he made the crossbow. So it assumes anyone at any time can just create one right. Making nen a plot hole
How is that a plot hole?
If there is no real limits defined yet what stops someone from making anything like bungee gun if they are a transmutet or instead of going at anytime I will die or even loose 10 years of life for more power. It's bad if anyone could theoretically do it
Nothing stops anyone from creating Bungee Gum, as it is possible to make. However, it is well established that you need to find an ability that suits you and your personality. Making things of the fly make for weak ability. It is a bartering system. The greater the risk, difficulty or price the better the ability will be. I don't see the problem and think it is pretty awesome actually. But you do also need base-level skills.
It's a flaw then. Nen isn't perfect if even if people don't make abilities as good its broken.
Cheetu got his abilities from Pouf, so it's different. It can be assumed that it gives him the capability to conjure anything (first the space, and then the crossbow)
First off, no one has ever changed their ability mid-fight. People can create new abilities through training. It just so happens that the only training we sit down to watch are Gon and Killua's. All the other characters are doing similar things in between encounters with them. The only time someone's powers change mid-fight is when Gon decides to expend the entirety of his nen + life energy in one insane burst. No one else we've seen so far is stubborn/angry enough to do that, even when death is on the line. Meanwhile Gon has done something similar with almost every major fight. His default mode is sacrificing himself to gain power or prove his mettle. Imo the real problem is specialists. Kurapika and Chrollo are the king of "I made this ability just to beat you" but still having other abilities that can just beat everyone. Why does it matter if Kurapika can't use judgement chain on others if he has other moves that put him above most nen users anyways? HunterxHunter goes out of its way to explain the entire system and think it through in-depth, only to say "Oh yeah but none of those rules apply to specialists."
Cheetu
So far in HxH, no character has changed their ability mid-fight but there's been problem of imbalance in nen condition and power boost one recieve and the other one is instant nen vows. Both of em are problematic. >imbalance This one is very apparent between pitou & kite. Pitou give all her aura, which is only second to meruem, and still couldn't make an ability to revive dead but kite could achieve it through 1 of 9 abilities he had while still not going memory bankruptcy. The other one is Adult gon, sure he sacrificed his nen but there is no absolute scale to measure how much power he should get in return. His power up is very similar to deku's power up against over haul on technicalities but togashi just happen to write it better. >instant nen vow. Both kurapika and chrollo took their time to put condition on their nen and then realised it into power. Opposite to this we have gon & Hisoka who could just make vows & condition on instant. As you could have guess the bias already lean towards protagonists which is normal for shonen mangas.
Then it's horrible how this could happen then. Stands/quirks are far better because no one just makes a new ability on the fly. And art stuck to one trait
Lmao, i just nitpicked it for you. I haven't read jojo but as for quirks, they're very cartoonish. On a pure concept base, nen is better system because it has element of both surprise and restrictions while still grounded to reality, there are exceptions. Any power system can be great if written well. Quirks could've been good too but they aren't handled properly. As for nen, there are mismanagement which are subjective but all of them were executed in it's best possibilities. So, it's wrong to put quirks over nen.
I never felt like this happened. I wish they’d explained what the Conditions on Chrollos double face are, but it’s not like he came up with the ability mid-fight. He had a year to develop it. As for Gon, the transformation always felt natural to me. The only time a character literally thought of some Ramdom shit on the fly, it was Cheetu. And he was dumb So no. The only ability I have a problem with is Hisoka reviving himself. That was a kinda dumb
In world wisdom is that a half baked Ability is usually unreliable and difficult to use, greed island onward we see gon and killua gradually grow to understand there abilities and how to strategize to use them effectively. Even Gon’s transformation almost killed him, he just got lucky the ability was strong enough.