Brother you need to speak with your training director. No way you should be doing 7 10’s with a 2 hour commute each way. That is a recipe for disaster, and unsafe in my opinion. You’re going to wind up falling asleep at the wheel, or doing something unsafe on the job due to fatigue.
Don’t let these keyboard hardasses tell you that you have soft hands and to tough it out. They’ll all tell you that they’ve worked 10 years straight of 7 16’s running rigid pipe in sub zero temperatures and were happy to do it. What they won’t tell you is this:
1- they’re lying
2- they’re divorced and their bodies don’t work the way they should
Take care of yourself. You got into the union for a reason.
Worked for a refrigeration company where if you were tired or bitched about having put in 60hrs by Thursday night, the boss would tell you all about how "Andy" worked 90hrs the week before and didn't complain once..... Well, "Andy" was the bosses best friend, and ended up drooling all over himself at a job one day, went home feeling unwell and died of a brain aneurism. The boss stopped calling people crybabies for wanting to take care of themselves after that and started actually encouraging people to burn PTO and take time off for themselves and their families. Whether or not the aneurism was work/hours related or not it was sad that it took someone dying for the owner to realise that people need sleep, shouldn't ignore medical symptoms and go to work, and that we need to take vacations.
>They’ll all tell you that they’ve worked 10 years straight of 7 16’s running rigid pipe in sub zero temperatures and were happy to do it.
Don't be ridiculous. It was a 30 year apprenticeship, working 7-26s, running OCAL in absolute zero!
Excellent advice. Don’t kill yourself for this bullshit, it’s only a job. Take it from someone who spent years drowning in OT before I got into the trade - you will fuck your body, mind, and relationships if you’re working 70 hours a week on a regular basis. No amount of money is worth that.
There’s a lot of different types of people in this trade. Some guys REALLY only have being an electrician as the center piece of their entire identity and really love the work, there’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s not me.
I have a family, hobbies, and a life. My life is not about work. I do this for money. Not for pride, identity, etc. I do take pride in my work and enjoy what I do, but some guys would have you believe that they’d do this for free.
If I won $100,000,000 the lottery, you’d better believe that I wouldn’t be at work tomorrow.
Yeah i never understood the people that are willing to die to be at work. I take off over the slightest inconvenience. I just don’t care that much. If i won like $5000 I’d be gone for the month lol
I genuinely did do 7/12s with a 2hr+ commute in my 20s. Wearing tyveks and taped off rubber gloves and booties over steeltoes, with face shields/hardhats, often in direct sunlight in temps over 110f.
Fortunately OSHA had a big presence, and a lot of the time we were rotating 15 minute shifts every hour. 15 minutes of work, 45 minutes of rest/shade/hydration. Not on night shift though.
And every day, or night, at least one dude would vomit and pass out. Eventually they banned soda and rationed Gatorade with water at a 1:4 ratio to help prevent that (it was always the dudes who wouldn't drink water lol.) But it still happened. So many guys out there ended up with heat-stroke, weird illnesses from chemical exposure and exhaustion, and other lifelong issues. There were class actions suits.
I ended up with medical issues that I still deal with today. Long after that money was gone (it wasn't even that much money and frankly I could never figure out where tf it went.)
I've worked similar jobs since. High risk, low pay (even if it seemed like good money at the time), body, mind and life ruining jobs.
I have never encouraged someone else to do it.
Sometimes I realize that I need to discourage *myself* from doing it. You can't work like that forever. Labor is, largely, selling your health and borrowing from your end-of-life years. When you push it like that, you're always paying interest on it somewhere else.
I don't think there's anything wrong with recounting excessively difficult work you accomplished in the past, and maybe even bragging a little about it. What I take issue with is when it's used (and usually exaggerated) to try and shame younger laborers into sacrificing their health and lives for wages.
I look back on the work I did in remembrance of how stupid it was, and how it wasn't worth the cost. To remember WHY we need things like unions and why laborers need to be educated and involved in legislation and policymaking that constantly aims to exploit their labor at lower and lower costs like disposable commodities. That even in the modern western world, with decades and centuries of civil effort to improve working conditions... There are still people risking their lives and gambling with life-long illness and pain to provide the work necessary for someone else to make millions or billions of dollars, in exchange for $14 an hour, loopholed as an i9 "contractor" with no benefits or protections... only to be fired without notice or compensation for complaining about the conditions that led to a coworker's on-site death.
The idea that "putting on your big boy pants" (which apparently look like a goofy plastic onesie with little rubber booties) and doing this kind of work is some measure of manhood... well that's just ignorant and counterproductive.
It occupies a similar space in my brain as the people who talk about how hard our forefathers worked. The mythical "piles of bodies" under every bridge, tower, interstate and railroad. The working conditions of the 20s, 30s and 40s. The WWII vets who people love to say "died as soon as they were forced to retire."
I, too, admire the work and sacrifice my grandfather made to try to build a better future for his children, and theirs. To try to ensure they would never have to make such sacrifices. It's a piss-poor way to honor those people, imo, to support continuing poor practices that endanger workers. Seems to me, the appropriate way to honor their fight, would be to continue the progress and ensure what they were working for doesn't get taken away. That their efforts weren't in vain.
Pretending that working 100 hours a week doesn't quickly wear ANYONE out, even at a relatively easy indoor job, is not beneficial to anyone. Ignoring your own struggle with it, and the effects on mental health, substance abuse, and satisfaction, to simply continue parroting the harmful societal intimation that "that's what real men do" is not beneficial either. We work to earn the capital to provide ourselves and our loved ones with food, and shelter, and comfort. And if we're lucky, we're able to do that by performing work that we enjoy or value as work that needs to be done. Or at the very least, work that allows us the time to enjoy the fruits of our labor.
If getting swindled out of your personal time, your health, your mental well-being, your socialization, your life expectancy, and getting to enjoy your life, in service of some fat POS who bought a yacht SOLELY with income that YOU PERSONALLY generated for them is the thing you're most proud of... Then I feel bad for you, genuinely. I have taken huge pay cuts to work places where I cared about the work we were doing. So that I could be proud of something. They were still fucking me. But at least I could believe in the work. Maybe in that situation you can justify the expense of working too much/too hard... But *just* being proud of getting worked to death for 90% of your waking life- and drinking yourself to death to cope with it for the other 10- is big bootlicker energy, and frankly doesn't inspire confidence in one's intelligence or wisdom.
***Especially*** in the context of an online forum for unions! Lol!
Hell I'm only even here because I'm almost 40 and finally getting serious about trying to join a union after a lifetime of supporting the concept, but never having the time or energy to really look into it... As well as being fooled into thinking it was something I couldn't do. Like unions were for a different class of people and I was too much of a poor, uneducated, unskilled dipshit... So I needed to accept my lot in life and kill myself to afford sleeping in a utility closet and eating vienna sausages. Finally coming to terms with what a dumbass I was for working myself like that... Now that my body just can't do it anymore, and I don't know how to get work without volunteering to kill myself.
I wish I would have done it 20 years ago. Maybe then I wouldn't be weighing how likely it is that I'll finish an apprenticeship before dying (likely due to health problems from how I destroyed my body for shit wages in my youth.)
I can't imagine supporting labor unionization, while calling someone dedicating >100 hours a week to their job a pussy for wanting a better work-life balance.
Haha that made me laugh. I heard that a lot from some of the people at work and some in the comments. I'm gonna call tomorrow. See if what he recommends. That's one reason I been trying to avoid getting into the lifts. Just constantly worried I'm gonna hit something or someone. I'm always exhausted when I get down.
And you are right. I got it for a reason. I'm trying to push through it. Just getting into an accident and dying or getting crippled. Really isn't what I want.
lol so fucking true dude. I’ve met so many superiors that work for our company (not union) and are divorced because they leave their wives at home for months at a time without seeing them. Then they sit there and talk how many hours they work and how committed they are to their jobs. Then they’ll turn around and talk shit about their wives, and how they only wanted them for the money. What do they expect when they leave their families and only send them
Money? 😂
Yeah, I absolutely hate JWs that shit on apprentices because they let a company shit on them.
They didn’t have anyone to tell them someone was exploiting them.
the sentiment in this industry is mind boggling. especially considering its a union aspiring for better conditions
but then there's no merit or substance in complaining about a 3 hour drive home
and also if the shoe was on their foot they wouldn't handle it
but also there's no merit in complaining
I second this. Anyone can work 6-7 10s shit I was working 7-12s my first year . But that crew all had 5th wheels like 7 min away from the job. They did this so they could work everyday. If that's not an option you need to stop . It may not catch you today or tomorrow but no one gets away with anything ever. Your sacrificing time to be at work. Time does not equal money. time for money cost money and time. You wouldn't be asking for advice if the alarms in your brain aren't going crazy. I hope you find a solution for this.
Honestly, as far as I'm concerned: if you're driving you're working which means OP is working 14-16 hours days.
That's 8 hours to shit, shower, and sleep.
That's not acceptable.
I’m pretty surprised you’re being allowed to call off work during the week and then work weekend overtime.
In my area overtime is never mandatory for a call you didn’t take. As an apprentice, you didn’t sign up for overtime and you’re not responsible for the training center sending you to jobs like that.
A guy on my crew recently fell asleep while driving and nearly died. If you arn’t safe doing this then make a change whether it’s getting to bed earlier or telling the foreman you need to work 4/10s.
That's what I was told to do by the JW's I worked with. So far it's been correct on my paystubs that I'm getting OT and DT hours. I think it something to do with it being a 6-10 call. I can't really remember though. I was told over a month ago.
OT here isn't mandatory here. But the JWs told me to try and not miss weekends because it's OT Saturday and DT Sunday. I would be throwing away money. So instead when I need a day off. Make sure it's weekdays. Preferably towards the end of the week.
I been thinking that I'll honestly probably get in an accident at this rate. I been thinking about asking if I could just work 8s instead of 10s and giving up the 10 hours of OT pay a week.
Or after paying the last 500 on my electrician books and paying my debts. Just giving up the OT and DT weekend pay.
ATM getting into bed earlier is honestly gonna be rough. I been trying to sleep around 9pm..I get home around 7pm on a good day with no stops. And around 8pm on a bad day. So I don't have much time generally to do anything. I usually don't even eat most nights. Honestly sleeping in my car at a truck stops would also probably be a good idea short-term. Bad for diet though. I'll see what my foreman says.
I’ve worked that schedule and yes you won’t have time for anything else, like nothing else at all. Buy yourself some quality meal replacements like Huel and take food prep out of the equation.
So here is the thing about what you are doing with call calling in sick during the week as a regular strategy to give yourself a pay bump, the cons catch on real quick and generally stop that shit for everyone. It’s happened on multiple jobs I’ve been on and its the case on my current job. If anyone calls in sick, they’re not working overtime. It’s unfortunate because it is nice when someone who needs a random day off can make it up. I wouldn’t make it a regular thing and I think it’s weird the JWs think that gravy train will continue.
>But the JWs told me to try and not miss weekends because it's OT Saturday and DT Sunday. I would be throwing away money.
Fuck that. I started the apprenticeship older so my perspective is a little different because I've worked other places before. But the money isn't worth your health or life if you fall asleep at the wheel. Or someone else's life. Talk to your director to see if there's any calls with shorter commute. How many of those old heads saying they did all those hours with no rest days have a good home life or a body that actually functions? They may want to see you succeed as an apprentice but they don't give a shit if you work yourself sick. Take some weekends off and don't take all the overtime. Take the overtime you can manage and have time for yourself. You'll be happier, healthier, and a better apprentice and JW in the long run.
That’s such bullshit. If they told me I had to work 7 days a week I’d go ahead and tell them to go fuck themselves. I’d be off to find another career or work non union and organize in. Why would any local ever force apprentices to work overtime? Are they trying to make our turnover rate worse? Not enough apprentices committing suicide perhaps?
Overtime is great and cool sometimes but to force a guy with a wife and kids to work 70 hours a week? Nah fuck you man I’ll go work at McDonald’s before I do that shit
> Why would a local ever force apprentices to work overtime?
Because they are corrupt rat shit wormy shop rocket filled class traitor fuck contractor’s locals that use apprentices for cheap labor so they can keep the more expensive JWs backed up on the books, and push for higher ratios and lower wages. Thankfully never had an issue in mine but reading about it on here makes me furious. 40 hour weeks, 8 hour days, lunch breaks, double time on voluntary OT, safer conditions, etc were *literally* the entire reason unions were created. Long before more pay or tool lists or anything the original purpose of unions was work life balance and safety, and people throwing that away are destroying the entire working class and 100 years of progress. We should have been pushing for less than 40 a week long ago, productivity is the highest in history and so are profit margins, people working themselves to death like OP is absolutely ridiculous.
Just about lost it on someone the other day for saying anyone who does that (leaves a union apprenticeship, works rat, then organizes in) is a ratty POS. I know apes that have spent six out of the last twelve months out of work, i know guys from this apprenticeship that took 7+ years to top out of a ~3.5 year program because the training director wouldn’t send them to the jobs they needed to be at (gotta have 2,000 hrs of working hot primary). Fuck that shit. If the union isn’t taking care of you as an apprentice, if you truly have exhausted every option and you aren’t receiving the training MY deductions pay for, fuck them. Im pro union, but running a shitty training center or ratty local should come with consequences
Yeahhhh I feel the same way. People forget that the union, the school, and the contractors are 3 entirely different entities. Yes, the union has some say in how the apprenticeship is ran, but at the end of the day it’s how the training director and the board handle things with most issues. The apprenticeship is one of the most anti union organizations it seems.
Knew a guy that had to go to the funeral of a grandparent, brought the committee a slip from the funeral, and they still denied it to be an excused absence. Another guy had to go in front of the committee because he missed a few days and a class day for his child being born. Granted, they were cool about it in that case and weren’t there to give him problems. But the fact he even had to take a day off unpaid to drive 2 hours to go in front of the committee for something as black and white as child birth with documentation is fucking insane.
All I know is that when I top out I’m getting blackout drunk and throwing a party. I’ve been treated pretty fairly by the apprenticeship for the most part but there are a lot of brothers and sisters across the country who haven’t.
That's how it is in 1141. Technically you only have to work what you were scheduled when you got the call and anything after that is optional. but if you get a call for 7/10's then you're SOL. Also, the local covers a massive area, https://www.ibew.org/ludSearch/maps/OK_Inside_Final.pdf. and no, they don't care where you live when you get the call. Guys up north will drive 2 hours (or more) south and vise versa. I get it, first come first served and you take the call you get, but apprentices rarely wait on the books for very long. Some very minor considerations could be made so that one guys apprenticeship isn't 5x harder than the guy next to him.
584 as well, with such shit market share im sure locals in OK feel pressured to cave to contractors but it’s really not right… as you mention the jurisdiction is huge too so as an apprentice you can get fucked hard
As a matter of personal principle, I won’t call anyone out by name when they ain’t around to defend themselves. That being said, my comment/post history should point to my local.
This is true I was told atbook pick up that if the job requires it the only excuse is school or if your job is effecting your academics as a student. But then that brings into play "billybob over there is doing 70 hr weeks getting straight A's". I truly hope I'm not on a mandatory overtime site. The 1st year is the hardest as it is.
This is a brutal setup man. I’m probably older than you but I swore this kind of shit off a few years back. I just couldn’t take it anymore. It was ruining my physical health, mental health, home life, relationships , all of it.
That's what I been worried about. It's already causing a lot of fatigue. But I been worried about homelife. Even though I moved in with my GF and I travel home every day. I legit only get to see her once or twice a week at best for maybe an hour or two. We are just on different schedules right now.
I have no time for anything right now. I'm starting to agree with a lot of the people here. Calling my trainer and seeing if anything else I can do.
I was told by the JW's here that I really don't have a choice in terms of calls. I can't just up and go like they can. I would be here till I got laid off. I'm starting to wonder if that's really the case.
At the very least. At the end of the month I think I'm gonna swear off weekend work if I'm allowed. At least Sunday. Since I know that is an optional day.
40 hours a week. That should be your required obligation. With what you’ve said about nearly falling asleep at the wheel, you need to talk with your training director as this is more becoming a make safety issue for you and others around you.
I believe this was a 6-10s call. I been asked before if I was coming Saturday and Sunday before though. I usually do work the weekends for the extra money. But I been thinking that after I pay off my debts and books. I may just take the pay loss and only work what's required.
I would need to check with my foreman about that. I can bring it up with my training director but I feel he will remind me that he did warn me about the traveling. Since the local I'm out of is rather small. The JWs here have referred to it as being a travelers hall.
I was able to work out 6 10s as a first year apprentice but I was pretty fucking burnt out, and my drive wasn't nearly that bad. You're fatigue WILL get the better of you either on the job or your drive. Your job will always push you because they are also being pushed. Think of your girl, and your future with her, and go to the hall man please
7 10s is brutal. I wouldn't do it more than a week, maybe two, personally. Your body and mind need rest days to recover.
Especially with a two hour commute. In many ways, that's harder on you than the work schedule.
You need to pace yourself, if you're going to not burn out.
I completely agree. Last week was the first time since I started working here where I did work the full week. Even then I was late a few times. I took Monday off this week and just slept and had a real meal. I think the worst part of working here is honestly the commute. Just got because I haven't found a place local or just started sleeping in my car at a truck stop or something.
I think I been getting around 5 hours of sleep a night. I know last night I got around 3. Only thing keeping me going lately is my Adderall prescription and a coffee in the morning.
I'm trying to avoid burnout. Working at caterpillar really got messed up. I got where I didn't even wanna show up and I can't afford to do that for this career.
Thinking I'm gonna try what some of the other folks on here said. See what works best.
My brother in the trades, do not sacrifice your health for anybody. Sacrificing your sleep will have a direct, negative effect on your physical health - it leads to heart disease and neurological problems.
Find a way to get your 8 hours of sleep at all costs.
Pull over and sleep if you're nodding off. Talk to a foreman about taking a Saturday or Sunday off as necessary, maybe 1 every weekend or every other. Work is important but so is your quality of life. Take care of yourself brother
I almost did that a few times. Lately I been stopping and stretching standing for a few minutes. When I start getting bad. It depends if I'm running late or not.
Starting next month I'll not work overtime. It's for the best.
That is true. I was leaning towards taking the pay cut and getting a day of rest. Maybe even not working the weekends at all. But that would be after the 3rd. Deadline to pay off my books. So Im needing the extra money.
Hey bud. Fellow apprentice here with 158.
I know you might not want to hear it.
You’re falling asleep at the wheel. Think about this rationally, here. You’ve got a GF who loves you. She gives you motivation to keep going, right?
Use that motivation to keep yourself alive. Talk to your training director. Talk to your foreman. Work 6 days a week that they told you you’d work.
Do not keep doing this to yourself. It might seem like shit now, but it only gets worse the longer you do the 7/10 grind. It WILL get to be worse.
Please, do 6/10s. Take your Sunday off. Spend time with your gf, sleep, whatever, but rest on the Sundays. Double time isn’t worth killing yourself or potentially others over, buddy.
Yeah that's a good point. I think the main consensus has either been leave the job or no longer work 7/10s. While I don't really think I should leave the job yet.
I do think that I should probably call the hall and see if maybe I can get my hours reduced or talk to the foreman about it.
Because last week was the only week I work 7 days fully. Every other week I've missed a day. So I was doing 6/10s. I'm going to pay attention this weekend because I'm pretty sure the foreman walks around and asks if you want to work Saturday and Sunday.
My current plan is to do two more weeks like I have been. So that I can kill some smaller debts and pay off my books. And then after the 3rd. I just no longer work weekends. I do think calling my hall and seeing if he thinks that would be possible. Because it really is a safety concern.
Definitely call the hall and tell them.
Just take it easy, alright? Try not to die on the road falling asleep, think about what’s going for you in life. You’ve got a gf who loves you, family, etc… for 14 hours a day, is it really worth potentially killing your self on the road over?
Gotta look out for yourself, because unfortunately nobody can do it for you. We can help, but we can’t look out for you as effectively as you can.
That's the goal. Id rather not die. I was planning on calling the hall yesterday however I remembered that my lunch is their lunch and they wouldn't have answered if I called l. So I ended up texting and explained the situation the best I could. It showed that the message had been read but I never got a response. I'm expecting it to take a few days before I get a response. My general experience with him so far is that he's very busy.
We had a bit of a mishap at work today. I'm delayed and responding to everyone because there's just so many comments.
But we had to accident today. Where one of the other crews was trying to move this pressurized air pipe. So basically they had ignored safety steps or follow them but made a mistake. They said the wrong pipe was the depressurized. So when the guy removed the coupling it exploded in his face. It did a lot of damage the brackets the pipe. And it flooded the entire place with pressurized air that was mixed with rust and dust.
The guy I was working with said you could literally taste it in the air. We had a stand down and evacuated the building and waited outside. I think we we're outside for like an hour or two. The guy who been up there was alive. I heard his face was cut up and he's most likely not going to be able to hear very well for a while.
But we're basically giving a choice today. Half of the crew went home. No penalty no pay. I was going to tough it out and stay the whole day. However I personally have a history of asthma. After we return to work I had started coughing pretty aggressively. I was like a wall away in this transformer room when the pipe went off. So I had walked through the dust and didn't think about covering my mouth.
And then when we got the all clear we could go back to work. It was still really dusty inside. You could still taste it. Still see it in the distance. I basically have been coughing pretty much the last 3 hours. Even after I got the face mask. So I decided I probably should go home and just get some rest.
But hey 5-hour pay is better than 2 hour pay. I'm thinking about stashing some face mask away and most likely going to see if I can get a new prescription for an inhaler just in case ahah.
That's very funny you say that. I remember being asked if I smoked or drink. Which I don't. I used eat edibles but I value IBEW and this career path infinitely more.
The guy told me that I don't smoke or drink yet. But I'm going to need to start one of them if I'm going to make it.
I've also noticed a lot of the older guys making designated napping spots for breaks. Which I found interesting. I didn't know you could make a slightly comfortable napping spot with construction material and plastic wrap.
Yeah I stopped reading after "I do 7/10s two hours away". That's fucked. That's stupid. That's asinine. That's just wrong. Ain't no reason why you need to dedicate your entire existence to whatever bs they're tryna have you do. Everyone needs breaks. I'm so sick of this work to live and live to work mentality America has. Sounds like a terrible gig you got thrown into.
I agree with you there. I don't want to live to work. The money is nice but I need time to settle. I got into this for a future. I don't wanna work till I die. Overall It isn't ideal traveling two hours away. The most common response when I tell people at work is fuck that. You gotta find somewhere closer.
Which I am planning on trying to figure something out so I can be closer to work. Basically buy a van and live in it or just sleep in my car. Not ideal but I think it may be cheaper than renting or a hotel room.
After the 3rd I will no longer be working Sundays. Maybe even Saturdays if they allow me. Need that rest.
When I was an apprentice, I told my foreman to go fuck himself trying to get me to do 7 tens. You're just fuelling some assholes cocaine addiction. There is better work out there.
It’s mind boggling the culture in this trade sometimes. Encouraging people to work 7/10s. That is crazy. You are only required to work 40. And overtime should be optional. If you have debts and other obligations, I get that. But don’t kill yourself trying to prove yourself to others. Work/life balance is important. Try and find a work schedule that works for you and find somewhere closer to home. You have options! Seek them! The school should be able to help you out.
That is true. The call is for 6:10 so I believe I would need to work 6 days minimum. But I could not work Sundays and it should be fine. However I also want to say that there's been several times where I've been asking I'm working Saturday and Sunday. So I might be able to just not work weekends at all. I'm planning on asking about that and then maybe just working 5 days after the 3rd.
I do agree with you. Everyone's different and I just got to find the right work schedule for me. I'm still considering if I should call my hall and ask. I'm not sure if I want to leave I don't even know if I have the possibility. I've been told by the JW's that I really don't have the same privileges as them. As in I cannot just up and leave a job. I either need to be laid off on friendly terms or be fired on negative terms.
And with me being a first year apprentice. It is my understanding that if I am fired because I did something wrong and it's my fault I am at risk of being expelled from my local.
But yeah I'll see about calling and see what he says. I wouldn't mind a job closer to home but I also wouldn't mind just working 8 hours or working 5 days a week.
You need to call and talk to your training director let them know what's going on. You want to get ahead of the ass chewing because if you keep being late and calling out, there will be one. Also, what you are doing is dangerous, and of course, you are getting burnt out easily. Your director may be able to place you in a closer job or talk to your company about changing your work schedule.
Are you getting paid per diem? If you can, I would hold back on the debt payments and build a bit of a cushion of money. Ask around the site what other people are doing if they are staying closer to the site and see if they have spare room for you. I'm willing to bet someone has a place they can hook you up with.
I should probably call him. I'm a little worried because when I got put on this call. This was the closest call. It was this or a place in Kentucky. So thats 2 hours away vs 6+ hours away. Granted it's been a month. So maybe something closer is available.
That and I don't wanna risk getting kicked out. First year is the probation period. Me being late is an issue but I always texted my foreman and let him know. Same for taking days off. As for the Per diem. That isn't something I'm getting. I am getting an incentive though that is being added to my hourly wage.
I can put my debts on hold for a little while and focus on getting money build up. I had them for a few years now anyway. Just gotta pay off my books before the 3rd. Which is the plan ATM.
I have asked some folks here. Alot of them are doing hotel rooms or campers. 4-500 a week I believe for hotels. I think it was 1500 and something for a camper spot. I have talked with one of the other apprentice out of my local and we had planned on getting a hotel or rent something together.
But he got into a car accident and I haven't heard much about that since then. I can check up with him since he is back and working again.
See if any jmen have room in their campers. How much is your incentive? Check Craigslist for room and board or Airbnb. I think driving that much working 7-12s is very dangerous. I know it can be hard as a first year, but reaching out is better than bottling up the issue.
Your JATC or contractor shouldn’t have placed you on a two hour drive. Especially at your wage. You only have to work your 40. I recommend apprentices only ever work their 40. Unless you have some hall that is going to let you test out early as you hit your hours you are only extending your apprenticeship.
That's a really good point about extending the apprenticeship. I did hear you can take some kind of test and like possibly skip years. But I was told that if you take that people will hate you so I haven't I even bothered to ask about it yet. I do think the only real benefit other than money obviously. My local has it but after you work I think it's $1,000 hours. You get access to insurance. Currently I believe I'm nearing 400 hours.
I honestly don't know if they had a choice. It's my understanding that they wanted us to get experience and get some money saved up so that we can afford the $900 books for school in August. And I believe I had two choices. A really big job in Memphis that's 2 hours away or going to Kentucky which is like 6 plus hours away.
In the end I didn't even make a choice it was decided for me and I'm kind of glad it was 2 hours away because I had no money I was struggling when I first started. I literally used my last two paychecks for Union fees, dues, tools, and gas to get to work.
We are all human beings bro talk to the training director, have a talk with your foreman. People are a lot more understanding than you’d think. I personally HATE driving so I’ll be dipped in shit before you’d find me driving 2 hours to work or doing 7-10’s or 12’s
Yeah I do think I'm probably going to call my director and see what he says. A little iffy because I don't know if I want to be taken off this job and I have a feeling he's going to say that he told me that this job had a lot of traveling in it. Because he did tell me that like six or seven times during the interview.
Which I don't really mind the traveling part so far. But I seem to be having some issues.
I think I'm man enough to try and push through it. But wise enough to stop and ask for help / advise. This is a 6/10 job. The seventh day isn't mandatory here. But most of the crew has been doing it. But I am going to call the hall and see what they say. I really think I need to stop working weekends if possible. At the very least stop working Sundays.
The plan is to do this for two more weeks. Then stop and use Sunday as a day for rest from them on. Just so I can pay off my books and kill some debts.
I agree with everyone else that this is an impossible schedule to work safely. talk to the people at your local about it your siblings are here to help.
Now in general When working overtime all your needs become double. make sure you are eating a balanced and filling diet, you need energy. Keep this in mind: sugar is energy for right now, carbs are energy for an hour from now, and protein is energy 2-3 hours from now. Fruits make for better sugars than candy. Vegetables (leafy greens in particular) reduce that feeling of fatigue in your muscles and help keep your brain at 100.
trying to ween off caffeine is a really good idea. caffeine is a crutch when you need a splint, it'll help but get through the day but the more you use the higher your tolerance builds and the more you need. That said you lose your caffeine tolerance quickly. It takes about 8 hours to go back to baseline caffeine tolerance so if you space out your use by about 8 hours or so you find it affects you more, that said if you can lose the dependency all together even better.
Next up stretch and flex not only at the start of the day but after every break, and before and after driving especially if your commute is over 30 minutes. This also will help with that muscle fatigue. Make sure you're really getting the whole body when doing this.
Sleep is so important, your 14 hours out of the house that leaves 10 to rest. You need between 6-8 hours of sleep it's sooo important. Screens of 30-min to an hour before you are going to sleep. if the sun is still up when you hit the pillow get some black sheets to hang in front of the window it's much cheaper than getting blackout curtains. If you need to use some over the counter sleep aids and use as the box directs. remember those meds are there to help you sleep for 8 hours if you can't sleep that long don't take the medicine getting up will be impossible. If you're gf doesn't mind a smart bulb set to turn on at the time you wake up can make for an easier way to wake than a jaring alarm.
just to reiterate, that is not a safe schedule. Talk to everyone you can about it and see if you can get per diem for your travel time or lodging at a nearby hotel because 2 hours is a terrible commute.
I think currently the only person getting Per diem is like the supervisor. At least on my crew. I think that's what he is. The Foremen report to him and he reports to the site director. I don't believe any what else is getting it. I thought that I would be getting it when I got the job. How it was explained to me that that is more for people who are travelers. Which I am it's on my paperwork. But he said it was people out of state like from Kentucky or Georgia.
Since I live in Alabama driving 2 hours to Tennessee. I thought I would be getting it. Currently my diet has been mostly protein or high protein foods. I think like three or four weeks ago I went to Sam's club and got a lot of high protein healthier foods in bulk. And I believe that is about gone now. So I'm going to need to go back and get more or give alternative diet.
I mainly been drinking water, propel water, some Gatorade. I've mostly cut out soda I will occasionally get it on the way home from work but I've been trying really hard to get into shape and eat healthier and gain some muscle. Because I generally feel weaker than the people that I work with and I don't want to be a liability. The only caffeine I really have right now is I will get a double shot coffee drink at the gas station every morning to help me stay awake for the drive. I didn't like the occasional soda I'll get on the way home.
I think my sleep is really broken right now. I haven't trying to sleep by 9:00 which will give me 6 hours. Whenever I leave work if I drive straight home with no stops I will get home around 7:10. If I stop anywhere it becomes like 7:45. So my nights tend to be shower either skip eating or find something to eat. Normally when I eat something I stay up an extra 30 minutes to an hour.
Like yesterday I had about 3 hours of sleep. I cooked a bunch of chicken in bulk to bring to work. And I underestimated how long it would need to cook in. The recipe said 8 minutes. It took 20 minutes per five pieces.
I am leaning towards not working any overtime after the 3rd. I think that will just generally help reduce a lot of my issues currently and honestly will probably save me more money.
Do you live outside of your jurisdiction? And idk. If u want the money, then make yourself a morning coffee to drink on the drive in. Focus on getting to sleep early.
But overall, it’s not that worth it as an apprentice, because you’re getting all this ot and still likely less than a jm working 40. Maybe not with the double time, but…
And What local?
Yeah I believe I am. I live like 40 mins away from my local hall. My local is 852. I had to go to the Memphis JATC building and then to local 474 to get sent out to this job. I been told by some of the JWs here that my local is likely a travelers hall. Hense the distance..
In the morning. I usually take my prescription then get ready for work. I stop at a gas station to refill and I usually grab a double shot coffee drink. That usually keeps me going most of the drive. It's been the first 40 min drive to the gas station and usually the end of the drive where it gets rough. Long back roads in farmland...
I'm going to be getting a coffee machine at some point though. Also about DT. From what I can see on my paystubs. Working Sunday is almost 2 days pay. It's slightly less.
Please be careful brother last job I was on we had an apprentice crash his car on a Sunday morning on his way into work he broke his back and was out of work for almost a year
That's been one of my bigger fears. I don't think it's a matter of if I'll get into an accident but more when I'll get into an accident. I've had a few close calls. Luckily never with another driver. The roads are usually dead in the mornings. But I definitely started to drift off the road and then the little bumps like alert me when I am off the road I need to turn back.
What usually worries me is there are large sections of the roads that I'm on that don't have those little alert grooves or whatever. Had I gone on one of them I would be in a ditch or worse. Another thing that worries me. One of the apprentices out of my local got into a car accident. Luckily he was wearing a seatbelt so he didn't get like super hurt.
But it totaled his car and put it out of work for like 2 weeks. The two weeks he spend recovering and looking for a new vehicle. I think currently he's using a rental.
Damn man I don’t know how you are doing that. I don’t think anyone could sustain that for long, that’s just too much work/commuting and not enough time for other things. I’m all about having a good work life balance, if you talk to your training director they have got to be able to help you find a solution especially if you tell them about how you feel unsafe driving in on that little sleep
Yeah I'm thinking about calling today and explaining and seeing what he says. I don't necessarily want to leave this job since the pay is really well I've got on friendly terms of the people I work with.
But the work life balance is honestly awful and I don't think it's if but more like when I'll have an accident. I've been worried that I've been overly dramatic with how rough it's been most days.
Normally I'm fine after I make it to the gas station but the gas stations 40 minutes away on the highway. Like my entire drive from my house to the gas station is on the highway and the only one out at three or four in the morning are truckers and police.
I think one of the apps on my phone tracks my driving and it went from like a score of 80 something down to like the score 42. Since I started this job.
No. Don’t do it. What they’re leaving out is that when the job begins to come to an end. And they start trimming the fat. You will be first,on the list,if you are not seen as knowledgeable,about that specific job. Or even interested enough to,to show up every day. They pay that double time. Because it’s well worth it to them to do so. The more familiar everyone is with the job. The more smoothly it goes. Take your weekends off. Your little apprentice wage check is not hurting that contractor one bit. Money is hard to come by as an apprentice. Take what you can get. And learn all you can while doing it. Now some guys will try, to work the double time day and take off the weekdays. But it’s not worth the unemployed days when you catch the first layoff. Not to mention your good reputation when you do turn out. Work all six. And seven,if you can. My last couple of years as a journeyman. I worked, in a power plant. We were,on a 4/10 schedule. But there were lots,of shut downs. 6/10s. 7/12s and more. When you do turn out. You will have the opportunity to work some of those hours. And at journeyman wages. It really adds up. Especially,if you don’t skip weekdays and become a forman. Because you’re familiar, with the plant. In my case it was good. Cause,in 2015,at the age,of43 I had a stroke. Due?, to a malformed artery I was born with. So forced into early retirement. But I had enough hours,for full SS disability. And two,of three pensions. I’m only52 now. Been retired 8 years. Gotta wait,for65 to get international third pension. But you never know. Work every hour you can! It all goes to retirement. And that’s the goal. Retire alive. And with all your limbs. Fingers and toes. Right?
That is the plan at least long term. I wanted to join because I desired a future and a retirement. I generally felt that I had no future at any of my past jobs. That was is really stressful. It kept me up last nights. I feel this is most likely the best path for me. And I'm not interested in losing any limbs.
I'm just currently worried that fatigue is creeping up. I can already feel it in the mornings. And I feel at the current rate it isn't a question of if I will get into an accident but when I will get into an accident.
So I've been trying really hard to push for the weekend pay. No matter what I work the weekend. I feel like I'm still meeting the requirements of 6/10. Since I am still working 6 days 10 hours. But I am looking into alternatives.
Like sleeping at truck stops. And eventually getting a van and seeing if I can make that until like a mini apartment at least have a bed and a mini fridge in it. I believe my girlfriend isn't working today. So I was going to talk with her and figure out the day she is working nights so that I can just sleep near work. I think my goal right now at least work-wise. Is to be more reliable. That's what this one guy at work told me today. That was my only goal as a first year. Be reliable and learn as much as you can.
Weekends are OPTIONAL brother. Go ahead and take every other weekend off. But also highly recommend talking to the director and see if they can get you rotated, tell them the drive/cost of gas/mileage going on your car is making it not worth the OT offered and see what he says.
I wasn't able to call him today. I had planned to at lunch break but then I remembered that my lunch is their lunch and no one's going to answer. However I did send a message and he did read it. I just haven't gotten a response yet. I believe it's probably going to take a few days.
Honestly that is a very valid point. I think I'm bringing home like 462 for working Sundays. Which is equal to like 2 days pay if my math is right. And like I'm spending $280 minimum a week on gas and drinks at gas stations. It's like an average of $30 a day for gas and about $10 for drinks.
I've been leaning on double shot expresso coffee drinks in the morning to get to work. I also grab a propel water in the morning so that I can drink it at work till first break. And then after work I stop and grab two propel waters for the ride home.
Talk to your training director. I was scared to rock the boat as an apprentice too since they make such a big show of threatening to throw out anybody that isn't fully committed, but it will lead you to being F'ed over and exploited by foremen that care more about getting their bonuses and keeping their bosses happy than making sure you're getting the training you signed up for and that you have acceptable working conditions to do your work safely.
There are great foremen that take care of their crews and give their apprentices plenty of opportunities to learn new skills on the job while staying on schedule but you're going to deal with both and you have to learn to stand up for yourself and stick to your guns, especially with the contract backing you up. Refusing overtime will put you in a position where you're going to be laid off earlier than other people that stuck through it the whole way. But it's not mandatory and your health and mental sharpness is much more important than putting in a bunch of more hours that's going to get taxed to death anyways.
Besides, us journeymen don't have to take night classes anymore except to earn more certifications and get our continuing education credits to stay current on our license every few years at our own leisure. You still need to have something left in the tank to get you through those classes and actually absorb some of what they're teaching you.
Plus, a bunch of my classmates got divorced or had their long-term relationships dissolve as a result of working and going to school all the time and never having any time or energy for anything else. If this is a girl that you want to marry and you aren't just passing the time with her, you should definitely try to get more balance in your life to spend time with her. She's being a trooper and rooting for you, but everybody's got their limit. Even if things don't work out, everybody needs some time to rest, relax, and actually enjoy their lives so they can come back to work recharged and ready to go.
It's one thing to sacrifice your personal life and happiness to grow your business as an entrepreneur with the goal of one day getting to chill back and enjoy that passive revenue stream. And it's another to do that for the sake of someone else's enrichment for 10 cents on the dollar. A lot of these guys that regularly work a sh**ton of overtime for years on end either have to because they keep spending their money on things they never get to enjoy or their lives have become so empty outside of work that this is all that they have.
Either way, the fact that you're falling asleep behind the wheel is plenty of reason to either scale back your hours or get relocated to a different job and company if that's not a possibility. Whether it's on the road or at the job, you're going to get yourself or someone else either killed or badly hurt if you keep going this route. And if someone else gets harmed because of your exhaustion, the victim, their attorney(s), and the law are not going to give a damn about your personal problems since you knowingly got behind the wheel while your ability to drive was impaired.
Take care, brother, and don't be afraid to speak up. There's a difference between being a hard worker and letting someone work you like a slave.
I ended up calling him. I plan to call him on my lunch break but I remember that my lunch break is his lunch break and he's not going to answer.
So I wrote a somewhat lengthy message. Explaining everything. And it was seem but I never got a response. Thinking I'm probably going to have to call him or go in person. That was a few days ago though.
So far I like the supervisor. He's a
older dude who like on the verge of retiring. He's been really chill and I feel like I can feel my faith in him. He's been real with me but he's been understanding really I feel like he's understanding.
He was like you picked a hell of a job to get into if you have asthma. But it will get better in the future because you won't always be a job like this. And he gave me some advice on getting a good hard hat if I wanted to buy my own cuz I was considering it. Something a little bit more personal and long-term.
The apartment that I'm assigned to. I'm a little bit iffy about. I don't think he's a bad guy but he jokes around a lot but he's been also understanding and trying to give me experience and advice. Some of the other guys I work with keep calling him a rat because he's doing things he's not supposed to do as a foreman. Like picking up tools and actually working. I been told you're not supposed to do that as a foreman.
Honestly I am heavily considering just no longer working overtime or doing overtime off and on. The money really helps just having an extra few hundred dollars a week as like a buffer. Like the week I work 7 days I noticed it and it did really help but I felt awful.
I'm also really wondering what my taxes are going to look like. How much I make a week and how much they take away the week. I would say they maybe take away like 30 to 40%. I think I'm making about 2,000 a week but I'm only taking home like 1,400 most weeks.
I swear to God if I owe money to the government when I do my taxes.. I'm going to be pissed. I know my girlfriend's mom told me that working so much overtime actually is detrimental in several ways. Obviously you are going to be tired and fatigued. But after so many hours they're going to tax the overtime so much that you're actually losing money by working it.
So moving away 7 days a week and doing off and on maybe every week or two weeks probably is the best way to do it. Maybe I just do it based on how I'm feeling. I've also noticed something. I'm sick I think I've been sick for the past 4 weeks. It's bad I'm just now noticing that I'm not getting any better.
I think the accident that happened at work the other day maybe made it worse. We had an incident where a high pressure air pipe wasn't properly depressurized or they depressurize the wrong pipe. So when the guy uncoupled it it blew up in his face literally. The guy is fine I already had a bunch of cuts on his face and he's very likely near deaf now. It was a total mess up.
It had like flooded the building with dust and rust. And we had to evacuate and to stand outside for like an hour and a half. Tennessee went back inside and it was still really dusty and foggy it was better than before but you can taste it in the air. Safety said it was safe but they ended up telling everyone if you don't feel safe working you can go home no penalty no pay.
Like a dumbass I tried to push through it. They gave everyone these masks and I went back to work for like another 3 hours before asking if the offer to go home early is still available. I went home because I had asthma my whole life and I was coughing pretty much Non-Stop afterwards. And now my cough is worse.
As for my girlfriend. This is the only serious relationship I've ever had my entire life. I completely given up on the thought of dating someone. Like I dated in in Middle School in high school but they weren't serious. It was just a title you know.
I'm very serious about this person and I'm open to the possibility of marriage but I want to be in a stable position before I take such a commitment. Realistically we've only been dating for like I think 6 months.
Like the guys at work talk about checking out the women at work and talking about like fucking them in the ass and wondering how good they give blowjobs and stuff.
Didn't ask me what I think or telling me to go give that girl my dick and I'm just not interested. I just go I don't know about. Or just laughing and refusing. Starting to wonder if they think I'm gay but they know I have a girlfriend and they've seen pictures of her so I don't know lol.
But I've never met another person who's on the same wavelength as me and is the same kind of weird. She's also an artist and she's been helping me draw more. Since thats been a long time Passion of mine that I've just given up on.
So it's fair to say that I'm very serious and extremely committed to this relationship. I'm actually trying to help her or I'm wanting to help her set up like a business or she can sell her artwork and crafts.
I also sort of want to open up my own business I just have to figure out what's really viable my area. But that is a long-term goal. I probably after I become a journeyman and save up some money and get my own place that sort of thing.
And yeah you're right. I'm going to see you when I can change either be a moving closer to work finding a different job within the Union. I know I really need to take more breaks and days off honestly to stop overtime or do it off and on instead of constantly.
I don't want my life to be defined by infinitely working. I want to be able to enjoy my interests and hobbies. Lastly I would much rather not die or get someone else killed. I think that would ruin my life in multiple ways.
Realistically I do need the money. Currently I'm paying off my books. I have about $500 left on it and the deadline is the third. I would have had it paid off by now but the 500 I put in it like 3 weeks ago was never processed. And I didn't figure that out until last week.
My current plan is books for school. Then killing $6,000 of credit card debt. Which has been steadily gaining more and more interest despite me making minimum payments. The interest is more than the minimum payments lol.
This happened while I was unemployed taking care of my grandma for a year. That was 2 years ago I think. But after I get that done..I can start saving up and maybe see about buying a used work van and setting that up as a little apartment. At least enough to sleep in.
Well, fuck. Get it after it. No overtime is mandatory. Even if the call was for 6 12s , I would work what I want. Of one day you need a break. Leave at 8. Skip and sunday whatever you have to do. Don't kill yourself, burn yourself out.
I known the jatc says work all the hour available. But they can't actually make you do that. Do what's best for you.
Find that balance. At the end of the day nobody is going to care of you but you. Best of luck
Yeah that's that's actually some really good advice. I think I'm going to work as I can start focusing on taking more days off when it doesn't penalized me. I think tomorrow will be my last Sunday for a little bit. And I might even start taking some Saturdays off if they say it's optional.
I think I need to focus on rest and getting in better shape. Do my best to avoid burnout. That really is going to bring me down.
That is true. Overtime isn't mandatory. My first week there I was told by the group I was working with. Work weekends take days off during the week. You're throwing away money otherwise.
If you have to miss on the weekend. Make sure it's not Sunday.
But yeah I'm leaning towards not working anymore weekends if able starting after the 3rd. That is the deadline to have my books paid off for school.
Don't drive if your eyes are blinking. Pull over and sleep it's not worth your life. Even a 15 minute nap does wonders. Nap at lunchtime if possible etc. Can you get into a car pool? Even half the way would help
I have considered pulling over and sleeping a few times. Especially when I'm already running late. I have been taking naps during lunch break. But usually my issue has been in the mornings. I'm usually awake enough in the afternoon where I'm yawning but not drifting or blinking for longer than I should.
I had talked with an another apprentice from my local. Since he lives literally down the road for me. He has asked before if we wanted to do like a trade system where I drive one day he drives next and we paid for each other's gas.
But he actually got into a car accident like a month ago I think. I believe it was the second week we started. He's okay he just missed like I think 2 weeks of work. Totaled his car and I believe he is looking for a new one. The last I heard he was going to message me about carpooling with me but he hasn't done that yet.
Yea local 26 says the same thing about apprentices working all available hours as long as it doesn’t interfere with school. 3 years in and I’ve never worked forced overtime. Seems like all talk from the jatc. Need to take off the weekends to recharge and for your sanity.
I think we are required to work the hours that we agreed to which would be 6/10. There isn't forced overtime. It isn't mandatory. I was just told specifically that not working Saturday and Sunday is basically throwing away money. Works the weekends take a day off during the weekdays. That was the advice given to me by multiple journeyman that I have worked with so far.
I'm actually really interested in how the schooling works. I haven't started that yet. The last I heard is the director of my local is trying to figure out something to do about The travelers like me.
He said that if we were to pull all the apprentices out 2 days a week. We would basically shut the job down. And since we are traveling from so far away. it isn't really viable to have us drive 2 hours back for the class. The last I heard is that they're looking into online options. Which I think is going to be interesting.
If you’re working 7/10a you have to be making some decent money even if you’re an apprentice. I would say maybe stay two days a week and drive what you can. I’ve been down your road drove 3 hours with a partner one way for five months doing five tens it was awful not to mention six years two hour commute. Stay safe
Yeah I'm making what I would consider decent money. But I'm realistically living paycheck to paycheck right now. It should get better in time as in once I get some stuff paid off like my books you know. That should be paid off next week. And then I can literally just drop money in my credit cards and still use my credit card some to make it through the week.
I was paid Tuesday my paycheck was gone Tuesday. If my bank balance is correct. I have a few hundred left and that should get me until Wednesday.
At the start of next month things should be better incomewise when I don't have strict deadlines.
Coming from the line side where working those hours isn’t super uncommon if you really do need the money like your saying and have to keep working get a cheap gym membership to shower after work and sleep in your car a night or two a week won’t have anything better to do so you can catch up a lot of hours of sleep that way. As for the life work balance part there really is no way of fixing that just decide to hate your life lol did that for a long time at the beginning of my apprenticeship
That's something someone at work recommend. I was learning towards that. If I can manage to sell my Jimmy and buy a van. I could setup a little bed and get a gym membership for the bathroom and shower. That's sorta what I was looking at.
That's what I'm leaning towards. Kill debts and just do my agreed work hours afterwards. I'll make less money but I should be able to not be so freaking tired.
Take your days off when you need! You've earned them. From experience though, contractors and foreman will get annoyed with you working the weekends but taking weekdays off. Work what you can!!! Also note that every hour you work is an hour towards your license, towards your retirement, towards your benefit package as a whole!!
Ive worked 7/12s, 5/16s+2/8s, you name it. The work is always there if you're a hard worker and willing to learn. Base your decision on your health, mental and physical!
Cheers!
JWSheehan
Local 103 Boston
So far I haven't really had anyone really mention it. I've had some jokes about it but nothing in an official capacity. I still am working 6/10 which is what the call mandated. Last week was the first week I worked 7 days in a row. Would you like to meet taking off Monday because I felt just awful. I literally slept through my dozen alarms. And didn't get out of bed till noon.
That is something that I had thought about. At my local I don't have any benefits yet. My first benefit was after 1,000 hours. The last time I checked I was around 400 I think. Give or take.
I'm trying to learn and absorb information. I made it a habit to always listen around me for like gossip and rumors. Trying to get the general lay down of what's happening. So far a lot of people are on the verge of dragging up and other people are worried about layoffs.
But I'm willing to work and I'm willing to learn. I've just been trying to do whatever I'm told within reason.
I didn't have time to call him like I plan to today. I did send him a message since it was just more convenient and he read it he just hasn't responded. I'm expecting a response within a day or two at most.
I'm just not sure what the response is going to be.
Find someone to carpool with, preferably a JW, because they should pay for gas, and someday when you are a JW you can pay for gas. Or ask around on site about who lives close, who has a room for rent, or a place to crash. My first job was 2-1/2 hours away and I stayed in a flop house of IBEW guys and they let me stay for free, that allowed me to save up for a cheap used trailer to stay in because my local covered the entire state and they really didn’t care where they sent you or how far from home it was. If you have a wife and family I understand that makes things harder, but my wife understood that it was a sacrifice we both had to make for the next 5 years.
One of the guys at work did offer to let me sleep where he is staying I'm assuming for free cuz he didn't mention the price or anything. He just said you need to bring like an air mattress and clothes and stuff. I think I'm probably going to take up his offer.
Planning on talking to my girlfriend tonight and seeing what days she works night shift just staying closer to work on those days. Since I realistically will only see her for like 10 minutes in the morning when I wake up days she works night.
I I was talking to one of the people out of my local another apprentice. We had planned to basically take turns. Where I drive one day and he drives the next. However he got into a car accident I think last month and was out for 2 weeks. Thankfully he didn't get hurt badly. But we really haven't talked much about it since then.
I have somewhat done many people had suggested. I plan to call today during my lunch break but I remembered that my lunch break is their lunch break and no one's going to answer. I did however send a message and they did read it they just haven't responded yet. I'm expecting a response in 1 to 2 days probably. I might just call them tomorrow I don't know.
It is indeed a job. I honestly don't mind the job it's just the fatigue is power creeping. I don't know how people have been going for like 35 days straight without any days off. Like I've heard people talk that their last day off was I think memorial Day and then their next day off will be 4th of July I think. They only take off when there's a holiday and they're not allowed to work.
Which honestly I respect that. I just don't think it's good long-term at least not in my situation in which I have such a long ass commute. While I think it would be still rough it would be more manageable if I were able to just live closer or sleep at like truck stops or something.
Honestly I think if nothing changes I'm very likely going to get like a gym membership and just start sleeping in my car. I still think getting a van and having it become like a mini apartment with a mini fridge and a little bed in the back is a good idea. At least then I could sleep almost anywhere and not be cramped. I just need to figure out how people do that and not completely kill their battery overnight. I think there's a device but I don't remember what it's called.
Here’s where it’s at my dude. First off you need to take the next couple weekends off and live. Then you need to set up some time off every month like fri-Sun. Next thing is if you want to continue working that site you gotta get closer to talk to some of the other guys and see what they are doing. Maybe you can share a rented house with someone. I don’t know you from Adam but you sound like a good kid. I’ve ran plenty of big long term OT jobs and I always tell guys to schedule time off. But don’t call off. That will send you right to the top of the bye bye list. Good luck friend
That is pretty good advice I'm going to try and remember that for the next job. It might be already too late for this job since I've called off work a lot when I first started. Could ever since they introduce the calendar I think that is what I'm exclusively used.
I am heavily considering no longer working weekends. I need to ask and make sure that is something I can do because I remember specifically being asked several times if I want to work Saturday and Sunday.
It's a very likely chance that in like 2 weeks I'll just no longer work weekends. I know my original plan was to do two more weeks 7 days and then no more weekend but my girlfriend asked me if I was able to go with her to this reptile expo on the 30th and after taking it over I think I will probably take that Sunday off just to go and look at all the reptiles with her.
If I'm right I should have like the major things paid off by Wednesday. That will help me out alot not having strict deadlines that have to meet financially.
I have been thinking that if I'm not allowed to take Saturday off. I may just start marking it in my calendar we have and that shouldn't theory make it okay for me it's not work Saturday but I have to remind the foreman. But from what everyone has said I should be allowed to not work more than 40 hours a week.
I am looking for something closer or maybe just sleeping in my car. I had a JW offer me to stay at his house. I think it's a one room apartment so I need to sleep in like the living room with like an air mattress. I am pretty sure I'm going to take him up on the offer. I don't think it's a long-term offer. Just if I need a place to stay for a day or two.
I also think I might ask one of the guys from my local if he wants to share an Airbnb or something.
In my local (not electrical, same pay), we have commercial guys, and industrial guys.
I'm 95% commercial (6-130, 8hrs pay, asked to work weekends maybe 10 times in 5 years), but recently did a stint at a powerhouse.
Was supposed to be 7/12s for 37 days.
IM capable of that. Maybe 2 days off. But not many people are.
Ended up being 2 weeks 7/10s, 2 weeks 5/8s.
Some guys rely on the outages for yearly pay, they may do 4 stints in a year, and won't be offered much else depending on when things finish up. My brother is one of them based on where he lives.
I get 1800 hrs in a year doing commercial, but I'm padding my pension and bank account with industrial.
Do your time, find a home shop to stay with, but more than any of that, BE SAFE.
this ain't for everyone. Especially 7/10s. Don't kill yourself and dont get others killed.
Balancing the budget and staying alive can be rough sometimes, but ya ain't paying the bills if you're in the hospital.
That's some good points. You can't pay bills if you're not working. You can't pay bills if you're dead. I've been trying to at least match the call 6/10. Since Sunday is optional for this job. This is my first job in construction and last week was the first week I actually worked 7 days in a row.
I have needed to take days off like once a week basically. Which day has been random but it's always a weekday. I've been trying to follow the advice of the people I work with. Which was never miss a weekend. So far I think it's the commute and heat over the actual work that I'm doing.
I've mostly been the ground man. Spotting for lift operators. Prefabbing some stuff. Handing them tools and large but not very heavy data racks that are just more awkward than anything to pick up.
But I've also been in the lift bolting down the data rack brackets. Honestly the biggest thing I don't like about being in a lift isn't really the height. I'm a worried about hitting anything or people. My first week there I was informed that if we hit anything I would be fired and the operator would be fired.
I let them do it and they had something both fired immediately. That and was the creeping fatigue and heat. I been working a lot slower than I feel the JW I been helping would prefer.
It doesn't really help that I still have the caterpillar mindset. Do it right the first time. Work slow if you have to don't rush and be safe. With more experience you will naturally get faster at the job. So being constantly rushed to be faster is more of a detriment to my work speed than anything.
I quit my first year because of this exact situation. Except I had everyone mad I wasn’t doing anything with them and a gf who liked to screw with my head about the union hall. my local hall was on this bullshit and embezzling money from us first years. I walked into my meeting after being let go from a job with a hour&1/2 commute and told them after a year of six days a week 10 a day constant negative experiences at work I have no reason to be in this union hall anymore other than I loved the work. I have several hall’s trying to get me in because they have seen me at work before at family gatherings or show up. I tell them no because of this experience. all the way from pussy ass journeymen to pussy ass apprentices and the favoritism that generational member apprentices was shown in shirking their duties that would cause ridiculous amounts of delays and I couldn’t take no rest day I took a total of 7 in a year maybe 10 always volunteered to do stuff to learn equipment from skidsteer to excavator.
If you really want to stay in that hall. You got to do the one thing I didn’t. COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR DIRECTOR. Also don’t be a baby about what comes out of his mouth just take the trash talk in stride. They understand they are just going to bitch about it. But always remember you have multiple options. Where there’s one union hall there’s another
I have made the commitment not to quit. I'm going to try my best to uphold that commitment. Because I really do feel like this is the best future for me. As of right now the only way I won't be doing this for the foreseeable future is if I get kicked out which is possible since I am a first year in the first year is a probation period. I'm just hoping the schooling isn't bad. That's been so much stressful since I don't know how I'm supposed to study and work like I have been working.
Fortunately I don't have anyone mad at me and like my friend group or family for not being around or talk to them. I feel bad about it. Fortunately my girlfriend's really understanding and has just been supporting me. She is definitely noticed how tired I've been. Especially since I took care of my grandma for like 5 years and I went from a deep sleeper to an extremely light sleeper or even like the slightest unusual sound would wake me up. Like talking. And now I'm so dead when I'm asleep and I don't know if anything would really wake me up.
I have heard that that is an issue with some locals. Being bad about embezzling money and generally doing shady things. I'm not sure if my local is like that. I know currently I don't think I'm getting any benefits. I remember a JW was looking at my yellow card and telling me what the fees were on it. And he said that I don't have pension on there yet. I know that after the first thousand hours I should have full insurance. Which I will be abusing that and trying to get some things fixed.
I am really worried about what my trainer/director is going to say. He did specifically warn me several times during the interview and application process about travel. So I feel like he may be annoyed about me having safety issues with the commute.
I planned call him yesterday however I remembered that my lunch break is his lunch break and no one's going to answer if I call. And the hall is closed before I even get to leave work.
I however did send a somewhat long message. Which he did read it I got the alert but it was read. However no response yet. I'm expecting a response in a day or two. I know he's a very busy person seeing how hectic my hiring process was. Granted I was a special case because I completely slipped through the cracks. I applied a few days before they send out all the acceptance letters inviting people for the interview.
So I fortunately had called him a few weeks before the deadline and we had to like completely Rush everything for me.
If you're strapped for cash now on 6 10s, you'll be really hurting on 4 10s. Honestly, it's not good long term, but when I was in my first year, I was fiendish for overtime like that.
Yeah honestly a lot of the JW's at this work site literally only came to the job because over time. Like this job is really big and chaotic. That's offering overtime this is where you make a lot of really good money.
I feel like that is true and I would probably struggle with 4/10. I feel like it wouldn't be that big of an issue depending on what the pay was like. I know my starting pay is like 15 an hour and it depends on what the incentive is. I can say that I should have some of my financial strict deadlines paid off by Wednesday.
That being books for the most part. I believe if my math is right I should be in a way better financial spot next week then this week. However I'm going to very likely need to borrow like a hundred bucks one of my friends again just so I can make it to work.
I have made a error in my budgeting and spent $100 more than I thought I could. And with the drive costing about $30 a day. 100 would make it like 3 days.
Move with the work, travel back for school. Removes the 2 hour daily. As for the stress of 7/10s 8hrs sleep, gym, healthy food.
It’ll catch up to you eventually anyways cause 7/10s but it’ll be delayed.
Yeah the creeping fatigue has been accelerating. I feel like it's a 2-hour commute the heat and the lack of sleep.
I am looking into sleeping up here or staying closer to work. I'm just still trying to figure out how that would work. I'm still leaning towards getting a van and making it like a mini apartment. We like it bed and mini fridge and stuff.
I've just been really iffy about getting a used one off Facebook if I can't guarantee that it doesn't have some kind of severe issue with it. But also don't think it's a great idea to clear all my debts and then get into lengthy financing debt.
But it's something that I am looking into. As for my girlfriend. She's been really supportive. I'm pretty sure she's noticed how tired I've been. She wasn't super excited about the idea but I think she understood my desire for a future and it's the big 5-year investment.
She has expressed interest in traveling with me whenever I go out of state. We talked about if I ever get a camper she could come with me and find just a small part-time job while I work.
The 7 12s, I'd have told you to nut up and you'll get used to it..........the 2 hour commute is outrageous tho, not a chance in hell I'm doin that, I've quit for less.
Go to your training director of your apprenticeship and ask to be reassigned a little closer to home I understand your strap for cash but what you're describing is eventually going to lead into a massive car wreck either hurting or killing you or someone else. I was once in your shoes, I've been a JW for five years already.
If you're not getting enough free time to take care of your mental health you will eventually explode in a bad way which could also cost you your job because you'll just go off on the wrong person without intention.
Another option to consider is perhaps moving a little closer to where the work is if you live way out in the boonies. I live out the boonies myself but I make sure I can get home with plenty of time in the day to take care of my needs which includes quality time with my family.
I hope this helps. Stick to the apprenticeship and get through it because once those apprentice years or behind you, you'll look back and thank yourself
I had planned to call him yesterday but I remembered that my lunch break is the same as the hall. So no would have answered if I did. I did text him explaining everything but no response yet. It's showing he read it. I'm expecting a response in a few days. I know he is hella busy from just my past experience.
I think somewhere closer to home is a good idea. If we have any closer calls. I do agree that this will lead to an accident. I really would prefer not to get anyone killed or die trying to make it to work.
I can say without a doubt. I haven't had time to do anything. I think the second week of work I had a a hella rough day and had a break down on the way home. Had to pull over and cried for like 10 mins. Haven't cried in years. So mental health hasn't been that great.
I'm unsure if I'll blow up on someone. I'm not really that kind of guy. Think I only ever did that once. But I have gotten super pissed and that affected my work greatly.
I am looking into sleeping or living closer to work. Sleeping in my car or selling my Jimmy and buying a used van. So far I haven't been able to be at home more than an hour and a half before sleep. Last night I ended up laying in bed with my GF and just talking about the day and plans for the future. That helped me out a lot but I slept way later than I meant. Phone says I'm running on about 4 hours of sleep right now.
First, ask around and see if anyone lives in your area to carpool with.
Sounds like your GF sees the advantage of seeing you succeed. I’ve lost quite a few relationships over working shutdowns. See if she can help with the daily routines that you don’t have time for… shopping, laundry, cooking and be sure to compensate her for her time & effort!
Years ago I built a Sprinter Campervan to live & work on the road, but before that I use to crash in truck stops/ road oasis. Maybe you could break up the week by crashing there every 3-4 days when you need to catch up on sleep rather than taking a day off work. Truck stops charge about $10 to shower.
Doesn’t the job have a fatigue policy? Every jobsite I’ve worked required a day or more off every two weeks!
Also, good luck and hang in there, it gets better. Difference between a construction worker about to lose everything they have and buying a brand new expensive truck is a month of 7-12’s, lol.
I think the only other person who lives close to me. Is an another apprentice. We had talked about taking turns and carpooling but he got into an accident on the second week going home. He didn't get super hurt but was still hurt. Had to take two weeks off to recover and find a rental.
My GF has been really supportive. We only been dating for almost half a year. But we haven't had any issues. I feel lucky I somehow got someone on the same wave link as me.
She has helped out some and her mom helps. Mostly meals and laundry. I should get them something or maybe pay them. I been helping with groceries and laundry money wise.
I been thinking about trying and getting a van and doing just that. I figured it would save on money long term. Instead of truck stops. I was gonna look into a 24 hour gym membership. They usually have bathrooms and showers. So two birds. Just depends if we got one nearby.
I haven't heard anything about a fatigued policy. Seeing how people have been going 20-30 days without a day off. I'm assuming not or it's not enforced.
The minimum wage where I live is like 7 something. As a first year apprentice I'm making 15 something. I don't get per diem or anything but the incentive was half what a JW makes. So that adds another 7 hourly. I think I'm making around 23 an hour standard. 34 OT and 42 DT. Its why I was told to always work weekends and take days off during the week.
The paycheck has been helping alot pay off stuff. I won't even lie on that. Just creeping fatigue is getting me right now.
First off, fuck all that shit, no job is worth all that wear and tear to your body etc. Want a life like that? Join the military, at least in 20 years you can retire..
As a UA plumber, and i think alot of you IBEW dudes will agree, make sure you rest. A 15 hour day is dangerous. Full stop. At that point, your bomb and it isnt a matter of if, its when. I have seen trade brothers burn the candle at both ends and end up in the hospital from thinking there was more ladder than there was or walkin off a lift that was 12 feet up because he thought he was grounded.
You are the investment, protect it.
I can say I have noticed a shard declined in my performance. I had people say something to me or ask me something and I just have to pause and think on what they say. Like an internal lag trying to process what they said. Even had to ask what someone said 2-3 times which has had people get annoyed. Which I understand.
Literally the other day me and a JW was trying to prop up a band saw so we could cut at a better angle. My stupid ass grabbed at a spot where it would have cut my hand if we had started it. The JW was like bro don't hold it there.
Like many here, I at first thought the responses would be at least densely peppered with lots of “I work those hours all the time and I’m fine” rhetoric. I have seen nothing but support and fraternity. You guys are all right.
I was expecting more comments like that. I seen a few comments here and there but they got down voted into oblivion. I just generally ignored them. I saw one comment telling me to quit and let another ape take my spot.
Ape strong together. Weak devided.
Honestly we are having a massive apprentice shortage at this job site. I feel we can take on a dozen more without much issue. So I don't really need to let anyone take my spot.
I been trying to respond to everyone else though when I had spare time and service.
7/10s is brutal, even if you live next door. It's made worse by your commute, the mental load of learning, and lower pay. I like the advice here, talk to your bosses, coworkers, and the training director for help.
I have been getting a lot of good advice on here. It's like 95% good advice 5% insults. Which they are like downloaded a lot of those into Oblivion so they don't even show up unless you click on it.
I wasn't able to call my training director. But I did send a message I just never got a response. They did read it. I might call and be more direct about it. Or am I just talked to my foreman and maybe the supervisor and see what they recommend.
What I'm worried about is they're going to state that I really need to find a place closer which that is the simplest solution if I had some more money. I am planning on staying with a coworker who lives very close to work. But I realistically don't want to overstay my welcome. So I'm going to see about once or twice every so often.
I think I feel for you more. I think my only saving grace is after this week I can just stop working Sundays and maybe even Saturdays if they tell me it's optional.
It's taking a toll on me now. Mentally and physically I am exhausted. I'm feeling weirdly sentimental. On a day like today I feel it's going to be difficult to leave my pussy feelings at the door. As I've been told a few times.
Honestly I think I might be sick. I know the fatigue is creeped up hard. I slept through all my alarms today and I am running late again for like the 3rd time this week. In my defense we used have to be at work by 7:00am and they moved it Forward by 25 minutes. I'm not late by our old required time but I'm late by the new one. And I've only ever been late like 10 minutes which I know they don't care late is late.
But I do think that I'm sick or I'm getting sick. I've developed a cough over the last 2 weeks that just isn't going away and after the incident yesterday with the pipe and all the dust and rust they got flooded in the building. It's gotten a lot worse.
But f*** it I'm here and I will be ready to work when I get there. I can't say about a doubt after tomorrow I will no longer be working Sundays at least for a few weeks. And then I might swap to an off on situation.
Brother, as someone who’s worked months of 7-12’ with no days off for 90+ days, I hope this helps:
Stay in a hotel nearby every other day or every third day
One night a week try to fall asleep as soon as your home.
Limit your fast food intake. Try to pack your lunches or stop and grab some healthy meals you can microwave.
Look for a cheap Airbnb. I did that when I wasn’t in my camper.
I can look at a hotel whenever I figure out the correct way to finance and budget things. Honestly just not having to worry about the books anymore is going to be the best thing.
I can say that I did that last night. I came home I put on MythBusters and ended up falling asleep within like 20 minutes. So I definitely got more sleep than normal. My phone says I got about 8 hours of sleep and I can say that I do feel a lot better than normal.
A lot more awake but I'm like 100% sure now that I'm sick. I had a suspicion but it's been like 4 weeks now. I'm not really sure what to do about that.
I can say I've honestly not eaten much fast food. I think I've had it twice this week. But that's like the first time since I've gotten this job.
I was eating a very high protein diet. Just beef jerky. Sunflower seeds. Some of these like protein bowls and some breakfast bowls. I went to Sam's club like 4 or 5 weeks ago stocked up. It's lasted a long time but now I need to do that again cuz I'm I have no food. Just sort of been skating through on some snack stuff.
One of the guys at work was really I don't want to call him old because that's sort of subjective. But this older guy was recommending that check out Airbnb commute or something like that.
You basically can rent a place just for weekdays. And is it supposed to be a little bit cheaper than standard.
That is something someone told me at least the Airbnb part. Apparently there's something called commuter Airbnb or something like that where you rent for five days and you don't rent on weekends. It's supposed to be cheaper. I had a guy at work tell me about it but that's something I should look into.
On the video call with only really be viable on some days. The only time we can realistically do that is day she doesn't work which is like once or twice a week or day she has day shift.
Which is like once a week. I will be visiting her as often as I can I think. Currently I'm thinking that I should visit on days off or day shift because we can actually talk and see each other.
Start by searching electrical companies in your area, record their company name and email address in a spreadsheet, and then start sending cold emails using a simple template from ChatGPT w/ your experience. I sent 40-50 emails and got two bites. Plenty of opportunity to find a new company, you just have to put in the tiny effort to get it. 7/10s is straight up slave labour, don’t do that shit. You’re burning yourself out, and if you don’t know what that is you soon will.
I am a very familiar with burnout. It is something that I suffer from. In such a way that when I get burnt out it is extremely difficult to get out of it and it makes doing anything extremely difficult.
When I get into this mindset that I'm just wasting my time there's no point to do it and it makes doing the most bare minimum a challenge. I had the same thing happen at Dollar general.
I even had this happen while playing some MMOs I used to be addicted to. I could try that however I am just the first year apprentice and I don't really know if I'm able to get hired on outside of the Union? Like I don't know if there's any rules or regulations about accepting non-union electrician jobs.
7 10s is a joke. Everyone needs at least one day off. And is it normal to send apprentices 2 hours away for work where your at? Ours would only do that for volunteers or if it’s really slow
I’d be letting them know I’m working 5 days a week because of the commute. If they don’t care about your well being tell em to get fucked. I’d rather work for a non union company than a shit hole like that. Fuck that x10
Yeah I think that's been the consensus of this post so far. Currently I'm planning on working two more weeks like this so that I can kill some debts and pay off my books before the third. And then after the third no longer working more than 5 days a week. I'm very likely going to call tomorrow and talk with my hall and see what he thinks. Because it is a safety concern.
Your job is supposed to work with your schedule and life. That’s the whole point of finding the right career path and jobs. It sounds like you’re just waiting to burn yourself out, get hurt or worse. So you should talk to your training director, local, your contractor, just anyone that is able to help you find a better jobsite
I think the only job I've ever had that really worked with my schedule life was Dollar general. That job paid $9 an hour and I regularly worked less than 40 hours a week. I had all the free time in the world but I can't live on 100 to $200 a week.
Keytronic and caterpillar were both factory jobs. But they had mandatory overtime. Even when I was only supposed to work 4/10. Which is what attracted me to that job. We actually work 6/10 mandatory overtime. The work / life balance in America is just awful. I talked to friends who live in the EU and they don't have a lot of the restrictions mandatory things that we have. Like when I was working retail at Dollar general. I wasn't allowed to sit down. I had to stand up in the same spot behind the cash register and wait for people to be ready to check out. Wildin like the EU or France my friend saving they can sit down when there's nothing to do.
Sorry for the tangent. I think consensus of a lot of the people who commented have suggested that I should call and see about finding a different job. Are saying if things can be adjusted. I think I'm going to do that today during first break.
I did 2 weeks on one week off of tens as a 3rd year into 4th year, by that time I was pretty acclimatized to construction work bet when you first start you suck ass so you waste time and energy spinning your wheels, I would suggest doing basically everything they suggest marathon runners to do and probably take work super slow, somtimes work is the recovery with shifts like that lol. Good food, water, take vitamins and make friends at work, move closer if you can.
I think this is some pretty good advice. I don't have a lot of construction history other than painting which isn't something that I'm going to be doing as an electrician.
In my last few jobs were factory and retail. My only advantage I believe when I started a month ago. My feet are pretty well adjusted to standing and walking on concrete and hard surfaces all day. I've also dealt with some really shit customers. I've been able to mostly withstand a lot of the criticism and jokes on my behalf. Even some of the more sexual jokes and comments.
But my general rule so far. Don't complain. Don't get in the way. Don't be the problem. I'm just listening and trying to do whatever the journeyman I'm working with that day says within reason. I've been taking work really slow. I don't rush anything. I strongly believe rushing will lead to mistakes. Mistakes will lead someone getting hurt. I think working at caterpillar got that stuck in my head.
I've been trying to eat the best I can. Hydrate hydrate hydrate. I need to take vitamins. That could be some of my problem. I likely have several deficiencies. I haven't made any friends. I'm friendly with people. But I noticed a lot of the people that I work with I just don't really relate with. Me being like more of an antisocial technology focus person. Might be my biggest weakness. But I consider myself on friendly terms with most of the people I work with. I enjoy hearing their stories and honestly talking to them is really interesting. I really am trying to absorb the advice they're giving me.
And I am looking into staying closer to work. I'm honestly leaning towards van and gym membership. I feel like trying to rent when most likely eat heavily into my paycheck. And I'm already struggling currently with that despite I
That I would consider being paid pretty decent. It will get better as I continue to kill debts.
Find a carpool. Even if you meet half way, it'll help. You can sleep/nap in the car on days you don't drive.
Add up your fuel expenses and see what that's costing a week. Factor in your time spent driving and see if it's worth it to get a motel room for a few nights a week.
Contact your school. You work for the school not the hall. Or that’s how it works in mine. They will take care of you when you tell them it’s just too much. It’s a Brotherhood for a reason 💪.
I couldn’t do 7/10’s, and my job sites are normally within 45 minutes of me. You are not outlandish for not wanting to do 7/10’ let alone 2 hour travel each way lol ooofff.
There is also that other aspect of is there work near you? If you give this job to someone else will you be on the apprentice books for a while? Deff talk to the person at school about it and see what they say. Our due’s pay these people well to handle these kind of things.
Being a first year is terrifying for some because you’re being a good doobie while most people are trying to fuck with you for fun. Don’t sweat asking these questions because if anything it looks good because you care and some people would just keep being late and looking like shit. Nothing is worse than being late or being a no show especially as a first year because that’s what they’re looking for to root out and get rid of before they invest too much money into you. Any logical person who you explain your situation to will understand. Good luck bro and hopefully they get you working somewhere better soon!
Also maybe start looking into an apartment closer to work maybe with your woman and take the next step together. 2 hour commute is absurd but obv gutta do what you gutta do.
Don’t be late! 😁🫡
When I got this job a month ago. I believe we only had two calls looking for apprentices. One was this one 2 hours away and the other one was 6+ hours away in Kentucky.
Im thinking about calling today and seeing if we got anything closer. I been late on several occasions but I always let my foreman know. I also have never no called no showed. I was told that giving a heads up usually is safer.
I'll see what I can do. Y'all have understood and been really reasonable. Hopefully my trainer will be the same. Maybe my foreman here will also understand.
I could see about finding a place up here and with my GF. I'm currently living with her. She expressed interest in coming with me if I ever have to travel out of state. I was thinking about trying to get a truck and a camper. But I feel getting a van may be more reasonable. At least for now.
It's so strange reading the stark differences between the inside and outside. My first year as an outside apprentice I worked 7/12 for 6 or so months while having to commute almost an 1.5 hour each way because that was the closest trailer park spot available. Do you guys get a choice to work OT? I know if an outside apprentice said no they'd be run off. Not looking to start anything, I just have zero experience inside and am just curious.
“Stark differences” is putting it mildly. It’s almost an entirely different world. I couldn’t imagine bitching about some of the shit these inside apes bitch about. Damn sure wouldn’t be on here crying about my big mean JL.
I'm a little bit confused on what you mean. I think currently only like one other person lives near me and it depends on the day. Because some days he lives with family a little bit closer to work and other days he lives where I live essentially like right down the road.
We had talked about taking turns. But generally most of the JW's there live or are renting nearby no carpooling wouldn't really be all that viable until I found a place nearby. Which would be reasonable to travel for a carpool.
In defense of union or at least my current job. It is a 6/10 call. If Sunday being overtime however it isn't mandatory.
At my previous job. Which was reman caterpillar. We were working 4/10s but it was really 6/10s. Friday and Saturday were mandatory overtime days which gave you 1.5 pay. With the threat of having to work Sunday which would be double time pay.
If you didn't show up but called in you would get two points for missing. If you didn't show up and you didn't call in you would get four points. Because mandatory overtime days also times to the penalty for not showing up.
The icing on the cake is after five points you would be fired. How I know is because we had a new hire just like me who was fired the second week for missing and not calling in Thursday and Friday. She didn't show up Saturday and she was let go Monday.
Honestly the point system was stupid. Being late more than 10 minutes is a point. Doesn't matter if you show up. Being at work but missing the morning meeting that you have every morning before work. That's a full point.
I had a family emergency. In which I had a voicemail from my grandma who had fallen in her bathroom and needed help getting up. Which put me in a panic mode. However I was told specifically by my trainer that if you have a family emergency do not just leave. You have to call the supervisor and let her know otherwise you would be fired and replaced the next day.
So I called her and told her what was happening. And she escorted me out and I left I think 4 hours early. The next day we had a one-on-one sit down she said that was a real family emergency instead of giving you the full point for leaving would you rather I take 4 hours of your PTO.
I left after 3 months and join the apprenticeship program at local 852. Despite being told by my supervisor but that was a very dangerous job I don't think you should do it. But Good luck. I put in a 2 week notice the day after my interview in which I've been accepted into the Union. Decided the next day that I really just didn't want to go back. I never went back to that job.
I mean that is true. But the way that I see it I still am working 60 hours a week. Which is what the original call was for. 6/10 and Sunday isn't a mandatory overtime. I was just told specifically by the journeyman that I'm working with to never miss weekends and only if I have to miss or take a rest day do it on a weekday.
However I am worried about that and I've been paying attention to people talking around me or when I'm walking by. It seems like some people are worried about layoffs and other folks are also on the verge of dragging up. I believe that's the term. I've heard it a lot but I keep forgetting the specific lingo.
Are you able to just get randomly laid off without warning for that? I assumed they would have like a warning system or like they would have a one-on-one talk and be like hey stop missing so much. Maybe I expect too much.
My dude here’s the deal if you want to work year round make 120k a year exactly what they tell you might happen don’t take days off and Don’t ever turn down OT. I am a 20 year A card JW. Also those clowns who are telling you to turn down work are trying to fuck you over. You also need to ask yourself how many guys are around your union book looking for work before you start turning down work.
I feel you may be in the minority here. I'm leaning towards different strokes for different folks. I want to work and earn good money. But I do agree and what is the point if you work yourself to death.
Like a lot of people have suggested I do believe it's about balance. I know you likely don't care. But I have a bit of a personal story to tell you.
I love my grandpa. He was my fatherly figure growing up for majority of my life until I had the realization that I really didn't want to grow up and be like him. He is a high school dropout who who decided one day he didn't see the point of continuing School. So he signed himself up for the army and did two volunteer terms for Vietnam.
He came home successfully twice. The first time he said he was a hero second time people were calling him a baby beaver. Cuz it was during the really big during the anti-war hippie movement. Friends and family that he knew growing up flat out abandoned him.
He later went on to work for the government and he has been all around the world in countless top secret operations. I honestly don't know much about them other than he was on a naval ship.
He came home. Quit the government jobs became a security guard didn't like it. I believe he worked for a mechanic Union for a little while. He is still drawing pension off his time there.
Then he worked at a rock quarry for the rest of his career.
He has roughly around a million dollars in his house any fireproof safe. Every month he is getting more money than last month from his old jobs. He's getting social security and payouts from multiple different pensions.
He is effectively retired and he is miserable. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't have any hobbies. Most of his friends are dead. Family doesn't come visit. I'm no longer around to go talk to him everyday like I did growing up. And he never remarried after getting divorced.
Effectively he best man that I know. I inspired to have a life like his and the retirement like his. But he is miserable. My entire life he has been a thread away from blowing up on you. The simplest mistake even from literal children. Would have him be thrown into a massive yelling match. When he asked you to do something he expects you to know how to do it regardless if you've never done it before. And when you have issues he would blow up on you.
Do you know what he talks about now almost constantly. Killing himself. If I get sick and disabled I'm going to end my life. I don't want to be like your grandma. If I find out I have cancer I'm going to off myself.
He is the manliest person I know. The most interesting. The most well-off. But he is riddled and crippled by anxiety and regret. He has panic attacks several times daily. But he refuses to seek help. He does not faith in doctors. And I think he is scared of unexpected bad news. He's told the doctor if I have something fatal don't tell me because the moment you tell me I'm going to kill myself.
He talks about then when he's on anxiety medicine. He sees the faces of the people that he's killed in the corner of his eyes. He's told me that you would never forget what a person smells like burning or rotting. And that he's still smells it. Because when people got stuck in the barbed wire and die. You couldn't get them out without risking getting stuck in the barbed wire with them. So they often burn them so the smell would go away.
This might be a little bit weird but I see and feel a resemblance in the people that I work with. They are just like my grandpa. The act the same. Same mannerisms. They get pissed and blow up on people at the most minor inconvenience.
I don't want to be like that. I don't want to become burned out and become bitter and resentful. I also don't want to die or get someone killed trying to get to work. I may be projecting a bit. I might be biased.
But there's always another job. If miss out on money now I think that I can make money later. I don't think there's a point in burning myself out, getting hurt, maybe even crippled, or worse dying trying to push through the 5 years to be a journeyman.
I'm here to work and learn. Ape strong together. But it's weak divided. I will do my best to find that balance.
Nah man, fuck that. Talk to the training director or the project manager. Let them know that. Anyone that tries to feed you a story about their hours worked and commute to shame you, can fuck off. First years don’t make enough for that noise and they preach safety yet they’re putting you in a dangerous situation. If it’s a one week deal to finish a job, I could kinda see you wanting to push through, but if it’s not even a quarter finished, nah
Let the apprenticeship director know that the hours + commute are too much or move closer. You’re probably making pretty good money and unless you own the home you’re living at or on a lease I’d recommend moving closer. It’s hard to make it by early in the apprenticeship without oT
Kinda late to this post, I was doing 7/12s for a month as a first year doing 2hrs plus of driving each day and it sucked. I just looked at the light at the end of the tunnel and being able to see the end got me through. However your case seems to.be a little different given your further driving (and possibly not knowing how long the overtime will last) will absolutely end in a bad way. Take everyone's advice here, and if you need to take a day don't feel bad about it. Some guys may give you shit but your quality of life matters way more.
Try and invest that gravy. You don’t have to work all 7 days and hours at the same speed
One time I was out of the union and worked well over 70 Monday- Friday and drove 1200 miles. I got in Friday at 1am.
It felt like I shaved off iq points. Couldn’t figure it out until I did my time sheet on Sunday.
This was during the Great Recession and there was nothing for many months
Don’t be afraid to pull over. Find a truck stop or walmart parking lot or similar (or several) along your route, and pack a bag with spare clothes and toiletries. On the lineman side we keep a go bag in case we get mobilized for storm, but it’s good practice regardless.
My first assignment as an ape was six hours away, eight if driving during the day. I didn’t have the option of commuting. At first I couldn’t afford any kind of housing, so i bought a hammock, and slept in a nearby state park. After a few weeks of that i made my car a little more livable, and slept at truck stops.
Even today as a journeyman, with a truck and camper, and plenty of money for a hotel, you can still catch me snoozing in a walmart parking lot on some nights. It beats driving tired man, whatever you do, don’t do that.
Prioritize your money- your working extra hours of OT- get a cheap hotel. Everything is negotiable. Negotiate with a hotel or rent a room and get your sleep. The stats on apprentices falling asleep at the wheel and dying is legit. Good luck.
I didn’t get a chance to read all these comments they seem great so far. My local has a massive jurisdiction and sending apprentices to jobs 1-2 hrs away from home isn’t uncommon. Our school coordinator is highly aware of how difficult this is and actively tries to keep apprentices as close to home as he can but that doesn’t always work out. We don’t have a drive time pay or hotel coverage in our local either. Sometimes a contractor might pay for it but that’s uncommon. We actively encourage carpooling. I can’t stress enough how many peoples lives that’s probably saved. It saves on gas money and vehicle wear and tear. It also allows guys to get some power naps in. Plus if you’re ever falling asleep at the wheel you can just swap with another guy or have that guy keep you awake. It’s not ideal but it’s better than driving alone. Hell sometimes we even ride with the foremen in the company truck and save on the gas all around.
Secondly as many have said sometimes you just gotta take some time off. Whether that be miss a day here or there (depending on your school’s absence policy) or you gotta turn down OT. I know you’re strapped for cash but dying or getting hurt is definitely not worth the OT. I’d just do 40 thru the week and catch the good money on the weekends. Your foreman won’t like it but fuck him. We always say that jobs are the edge of our jurisdiction have to be more relaxed because JW’s will just drag it. They’re driving that far to work when there are good jobs at home too. So it forces the foremen to be a bit nicer.
Brother you need to speak with your training director. No way you should be doing 7 10’s with a 2 hour commute each way. That is a recipe for disaster, and unsafe in my opinion. You’re going to wind up falling asleep at the wheel, or doing something unsafe on the job due to fatigue. Don’t let these keyboard hardasses tell you that you have soft hands and to tough it out. They’ll all tell you that they’ve worked 10 years straight of 7 16’s running rigid pipe in sub zero temperatures and were happy to do it. What they won’t tell you is this: 1- they’re lying 2- they’re divorced and their bodies don’t work the way they should Take care of yourself. You got into the union for a reason.
Worked for a refrigeration company where if you were tired or bitched about having put in 60hrs by Thursday night, the boss would tell you all about how "Andy" worked 90hrs the week before and didn't complain once..... Well, "Andy" was the bosses best friend, and ended up drooling all over himself at a job one day, went home feeling unwell and died of a brain aneurism. The boss stopped calling people crybabies for wanting to take care of themselves after that and started actually encouraging people to burn PTO and take time off for themselves and their families. Whether or not the aneurism was work/hours related or not it was sad that it took someone dying for the owner to realise that people need sleep, shouldn't ignore medical symptoms and go to work, and that we need to take vacations.
This shows the power of using empathy before it directly affects you
PTO the union has no PTO ahahahhahahhahahahhaha
>They’ll all tell you that they’ve worked 10 years straight of 7 16’s running rigid pipe in sub zero temperatures and were happy to do it. Don't be ridiculous. It was a 30 year apprenticeship, working 7-26s, running OCAL in absolute zero!
Oh yeah? Well I had to spend 20 years just making up 6-gang switchboxes, and the travelers and hots weren’t even labeled.
You had traveler's and hots? We only had a collateral loop of know and tube
Brother I worked 8 days a week building a full house single handedly a week you got soft hands/s
Excellent advice. Don’t kill yourself for this bullshit, it’s only a job. Take it from someone who spent years drowning in OT before I got into the trade - you will fuck your body, mind, and relationships if you’re working 70 hours a week on a regular basis. No amount of money is worth that.
There’s a lot of different types of people in this trade. Some guys REALLY only have being an electrician as the center piece of their entire identity and really love the work, there’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s not me. I have a family, hobbies, and a life. My life is not about work. I do this for money. Not for pride, identity, etc. I do take pride in my work and enjoy what I do, but some guys would have you believe that they’d do this for free. If I won $100,000,000 the lottery, you’d better believe that I wouldn’t be at work tomorrow.
I’m with ya. Don’t get me wrong, I’m proud to be IBEW, go to meetings, and enjoy the trade, but I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for the money.
Yeah i never understood the people that are willing to die to be at work. I take off over the slightest inconvenience. I just don’t care that much. If i won like $5000 I’d be gone for the month lol
I genuinely did do 7/12s with a 2hr+ commute in my 20s. Wearing tyveks and taped off rubber gloves and booties over steeltoes, with face shields/hardhats, often in direct sunlight in temps over 110f. Fortunately OSHA had a big presence, and a lot of the time we were rotating 15 minute shifts every hour. 15 minutes of work, 45 minutes of rest/shade/hydration. Not on night shift though. And every day, or night, at least one dude would vomit and pass out. Eventually they banned soda and rationed Gatorade with water at a 1:4 ratio to help prevent that (it was always the dudes who wouldn't drink water lol.) But it still happened. So many guys out there ended up with heat-stroke, weird illnesses from chemical exposure and exhaustion, and other lifelong issues. There were class actions suits. I ended up with medical issues that I still deal with today. Long after that money was gone (it wasn't even that much money and frankly I could never figure out where tf it went.) I've worked similar jobs since. High risk, low pay (even if it seemed like good money at the time), body, mind and life ruining jobs. I have never encouraged someone else to do it. Sometimes I realize that I need to discourage *myself* from doing it. You can't work like that forever. Labor is, largely, selling your health and borrowing from your end-of-life years. When you push it like that, you're always paying interest on it somewhere else. I don't think there's anything wrong with recounting excessively difficult work you accomplished in the past, and maybe even bragging a little about it. What I take issue with is when it's used (and usually exaggerated) to try and shame younger laborers into sacrificing their health and lives for wages. I look back on the work I did in remembrance of how stupid it was, and how it wasn't worth the cost. To remember WHY we need things like unions and why laborers need to be educated and involved in legislation and policymaking that constantly aims to exploit their labor at lower and lower costs like disposable commodities. That even in the modern western world, with decades and centuries of civil effort to improve working conditions... There are still people risking their lives and gambling with life-long illness and pain to provide the work necessary for someone else to make millions or billions of dollars, in exchange for $14 an hour, loopholed as an i9 "contractor" with no benefits or protections... only to be fired without notice or compensation for complaining about the conditions that led to a coworker's on-site death. The idea that "putting on your big boy pants" (which apparently look like a goofy plastic onesie with little rubber booties) and doing this kind of work is some measure of manhood... well that's just ignorant and counterproductive. It occupies a similar space in my brain as the people who talk about how hard our forefathers worked. The mythical "piles of bodies" under every bridge, tower, interstate and railroad. The working conditions of the 20s, 30s and 40s. The WWII vets who people love to say "died as soon as they were forced to retire." I, too, admire the work and sacrifice my grandfather made to try to build a better future for his children, and theirs. To try to ensure they would never have to make such sacrifices. It's a piss-poor way to honor those people, imo, to support continuing poor practices that endanger workers. Seems to me, the appropriate way to honor their fight, would be to continue the progress and ensure what they were working for doesn't get taken away. That their efforts weren't in vain. Pretending that working 100 hours a week doesn't quickly wear ANYONE out, even at a relatively easy indoor job, is not beneficial to anyone. Ignoring your own struggle with it, and the effects on mental health, substance abuse, and satisfaction, to simply continue parroting the harmful societal intimation that "that's what real men do" is not beneficial either. We work to earn the capital to provide ourselves and our loved ones with food, and shelter, and comfort. And if we're lucky, we're able to do that by performing work that we enjoy or value as work that needs to be done. Or at the very least, work that allows us the time to enjoy the fruits of our labor. If getting swindled out of your personal time, your health, your mental well-being, your socialization, your life expectancy, and getting to enjoy your life, in service of some fat POS who bought a yacht SOLELY with income that YOU PERSONALLY generated for them is the thing you're most proud of... Then I feel bad for you, genuinely. I have taken huge pay cuts to work places where I cared about the work we were doing. So that I could be proud of something. They were still fucking me. But at least I could believe in the work. Maybe in that situation you can justify the expense of working too much/too hard... But *just* being proud of getting worked to death for 90% of your waking life- and drinking yourself to death to cope with it for the other 10- is big bootlicker energy, and frankly doesn't inspire confidence in one's intelligence or wisdom. ***Especially*** in the context of an online forum for unions! Lol! Hell I'm only even here because I'm almost 40 and finally getting serious about trying to join a union after a lifetime of supporting the concept, but never having the time or energy to really look into it... As well as being fooled into thinking it was something I couldn't do. Like unions were for a different class of people and I was too much of a poor, uneducated, unskilled dipshit... So I needed to accept my lot in life and kill myself to afford sleeping in a utility closet and eating vienna sausages. Finally coming to terms with what a dumbass I was for working myself like that... Now that my body just can't do it anymore, and I don't know how to get work without volunteering to kill myself. I wish I would have done it 20 years ago. Maybe then I wouldn't be weighing how likely it is that I'll finish an apprenticeship before dying (likely due to health problems from how I destroyed my body for shit wages in my youth.) I can't imagine supporting labor unionization, while calling someone dedicating >100 hours a week to their job a pussy for wanting a better work-life balance.
Wow, incredible response and testimonial man. GET IN THE UNION! The IBEW is here to organize ALL electrical workers. You’re welcome here, brother.
amen
100% this. And getting let go wouldn't be bad, since OP could get on a closer, more reasonable job site.
Haha that made me laugh. I heard that a lot from some of the people at work and some in the comments. I'm gonna call tomorrow. See if what he recommends. That's one reason I been trying to avoid getting into the lifts. Just constantly worried I'm gonna hit something or someone. I'm always exhausted when I get down. And you are right. I got it for a reason. I'm trying to push through it. Just getting into an accident and dying or getting crippled. Really isn't what I want.
lol so fucking true dude. I’ve met so many superiors that work for our company (not union) and are divorced because they leave their wives at home for months at a time without seeing them. Then they sit there and talk how many hours they work and how committed they are to their jobs. Then they’ll turn around and talk shit about their wives, and how they only wanted them for the money. What do they expect when they leave their families and only send them Money? 😂
Yeah, I absolutely hate JWs that shit on apprentices because they let a company shit on them. They didn’t have anyone to tell them someone was exploiting them.
This right here 👏
the sentiment in this industry is mind boggling. especially considering its a union aspiring for better conditions but then there's no merit or substance in complaining about a 3 hour drive home and also if the shoe was on their foot they wouldn't handle it but also there's no merit in complaining
I second this. Anyone can work 6-7 10s shit I was working 7-12s my first year . But that crew all had 5th wheels like 7 min away from the job. They did this so they could work everyday. If that's not an option you need to stop . It may not catch you today or tomorrow but no one gets away with anything ever. Your sacrificing time to be at work. Time does not equal money. time for money cost money and time. You wouldn't be asking for advice if the alarms in your brain aren't going crazy. I hope you find a solution for this.
1- they are definitely lying
This right here is the answer. Soooo good advice!
Honestly, as far as I'm concerned: if you're driving you're working which means OP is working 14-16 hours days. That's 8 hours to shit, shower, and sleep. That's not acceptable.
I’m pretty surprised you’re being allowed to call off work during the week and then work weekend overtime. In my area overtime is never mandatory for a call you didn’t take. As an apprentice, you didn’t sign up for overtime and you’re not responsible for the training center sending you to jobs like that. A guy on my crew recently fell asleep while driving and nearly died. If you arn’t safe doing this then make a change whether it’s getting to bed earlier or telling the foreman you need to work 4/10s.
That's what I was told to do by the JW's I worked with. So far it's been correct on my paystubs that I'm getting OT and DT hours. I think it something to do with it being a 6-10 call. I can't really remember though. I was told over a month ago. OT here isn't mandatory here. But the JWs told me to try and not miss weekends because it's OT Saturday and DT Sunday. I would be throwing away money. So instead when I need a day off. Make sure it's weekdays. Preferably towards the end of the week. I been thinking that I'll honestly probably get in an accident at this rate. I been thinking about asking if I could just work 8s instead of 10s and giving up the 10 hours of OT pay a week. Or after paying the last 500 on my electrician books and paying my debts. Just giving up the OT and DT weekend pay. ATM getting into bed earlier is honestly gonna be rough. I been trying to sleep around 9pm..I get home around 7pm on a good day with no stops. And around 8pm on a bad day. So I don't have much time generally to do anything. I usually don't even eat most nights. Honestly sleeping in my car at a truck stops would also probably be a good idea short-term. Bad for diet though. I'll see what my foreman says.
I’ve worked that schedule and yes you won’t have time for anything else, like nothing else at all. Buy yourself some quality meal replacements like Huel and take food prep out of the equation. So here is the thing about what you are doing with call calling in sick during the week as a regular strategy to give yourself a pay bump, the cons catch on real quick and generally stop that shit for everyone. It’s happened on multiple jobs I’ve been on and its the case on my current job. If anyone calls in sick, they’re not working overtime. It’s unfortunate because it is nice when someone who needs a random day off can make it up. I wouldn’t make it a regular thing and I think it’s weird the JWs think that gravy train will continue.
>But the JWs told me to try and not miss weekends because it's OT Saturday and DT Sunday. I would be throwing away money. Fuck that. I started the apprenticeship older so my perspective is a little different because I've worked other places before. But the money isn't worth your health or life if you fall asleep at the wheel. Or someone else's life. Talk to your director to see if there's any calls with shorter commute. How many of those old heads saying they did all those hours with no rest days have a good home life or a body that actually functions? They may want to see you succeed as an apprentice but they don't give a shit if you work yourself sick. Take some weekends off and don't take all the overtime. Take the overtime you can manage and have time for yourself. You'll be happier, healthier, and a better apprentice and JW in the long run.
You’re working yourself to death. Nobody can make you work more than 40 you doing it voluntarily that’s what unions are started over.
That is location dependent. In my local apprentices can have mandatory overtime. I got that straight from the training director.
That’s such bullshit. If they told me I had to work 7 days a week I’d go ahead and tell them to go fuck themselves. I’d be off to find another career or work non union and organize in. Why would any local ever force apprentices to work overtime? Are they trying to make our turnover rate worse? Not enough apprentices committing suicide perhaps? Overtime is great and cool sometimes but to force a guy with a wife and kids to work 70 hours a week? Nah fuck you man I’ll go work at McDonald’s before I do that shit
> Why would a local ever force apprentices to work overtime? Because they are corrupt rat shit wormy shop rocket filled class traitor fuck contractor’s locals that use apprentices for cheap labor so they can keep the more expensive JWs backed up on the books, and push for higher ratios and lower wages. Thankfully never had an issue in mine but reading about it on here makes me furious. 40 hour weeks, 8 hour days, lunch breaks, double time on voluntary OT, safer conditions, etc were *literally* the entire reason unions were created. Long before more pay or tool lists or anything the original purpose of unions was work life balance and safety, and people throwing that away are destroying the entire working class and 100 years of progress. We should have been pushing for less than 40 a week long ago, productivity is the highest in history and so are profit margins, people working themselves to death like OP is absolutely ridiculous.
Luckily for me, my stints of mandatory ot have been fairly short and sparse. And I’m typically on 4 10s so ot is an 8 hour Friday so it ain’t so bad.
Just about lost it on someone the other day for saying anyone who does that (leaves a union apprenticeship, works rat, then organizes in) is a ratty POS. I know apes that have spent six out of the last twelve months out of work, i know guys from this apprenticeship that took 7+ years to top out of a ~3.5 year program because the training director wouldn’t send them to the jobs they needed to be at (gotta have 2,000 hrs of working hot primary). Fuck that shit. If the union isn’t taking care of you as an apprentice, if you truly have exhausted every option and you aren’t receiving the training MY deductions pay for, fuck them. Im pro union, but running a shitty training center or ratty local should come with consequences
Yeahhhh I feel the same way. People forget that the union, the school, and the contractors are 3 entirely different entities. Yes, the union has some say in how the apprenticeship is ran, but at the end of the day it’s how the training director and the board handle things with most issues. The apprenticeship is one of the most anti union organizations it seems. Knew a guy that had to go to the funeral of a grandparent, brought the committee a slip from the funeral, and they still denied it to be an excused absence. Another guy had to go in front of the committee because he missed a few days and a class day for his child being born. Granted, they were cool about it in that case and weren’t there to give him problems. But the fact he even had to take a day off unpaid to drive 2 hours to go in front of the committee for something as black and white as child birth with documentation is fucking insane. All I know is that when I top out I’m getting blackout drunk and throwing a party. I’ve been treated pretty fairly by the apprenticeship for the most part but there are a lot of brothers and sisters across the country who haven’t.
That's how it is in 1141. Technically you only have to work what you were scheduled when you got the call and anything after that is optional. but if you get a call for 7/10's then you're SOL. Also, the local covers a massive area, https://www.ibew.org/ludSearch/maps/OK_Inside_Final.pdf. and no, they don't care where you live when you get the call. Guys up north will drive 2 hours (or more) south and vise versa. I get it, first come first served and you take the call you get, but apprentices rarely wait on the books for very long. Some very minor considerations could be made so that one guys apprenticeship isn't 5x harder than the guy next to him.
584 as well, with such shit market share im sure locals in OK feel pressured to cave to contractors but it’s really not right… as you mention the jurisdiction is huge too so as an apprentice you can get fucked hard
Yeah welcome to “right to work” states.
Name and shame brother.
As a matter of personal principle, I won’t call anyone out by name when they ain’t around to defend themselves. That being said, my comment/post history should point to my local.
I respect that.
508 babbyyyyy
“The” Patrick Starfish? Ain’t no way he’s on Reddit
OK, I believe you, but I’ve never seen that at home.
This is true I was told atbook pick up that if the job requires it the only excuse is school or if your job is effecting your academics as a student. But then that brings into play "billybob over there is doing 70 hr weeks getting straight A's". I truly hope I'm not on a mandatory overtime site. The 1st year is the hardest as it is.
If he's a lineman apprentice then he has no say.
This is a brutal setup man. I’m probably older than you but I swore this kind of shit off a few years back. I just couldn’t take it anymore. It was ruining my physical health, mental health, home life, relationships , all of it.
That's what I been worried about. It's already causing a lot of fatigue. But I been worried about homelife. Even though I moved in with my GF and I travel home every day. I legit only get to see her once or twice a week at best for maybe an hour or two. We are just on different schedules right now. I have no time for anything right now. I'm starting to agree with a lot of the people here. Calling my trainer and seeing if anything else I can do. I was told by the JW's here that I really don't have a choice in terms of calls. I can't just up and go like they can. I would be here till I got laid off. I'm starting to wonder if that's really the case. At the very least. At the end of the month I think I'm gonna swear off weekend work if I'm allowed. At least Sunday. Since I know that is an optional day.
40 hours a week. That should be your required obligation. With what you’ve said about nearly falling asleep at the wheel, you need to talk with your training director as this is more becoming a make safety issue for you and others around you.
I believe this was a 6-10s call. I been asked before if I was coming Saturday and Sunday before though. I usually do work the weekends for the extra money. But I been thinking that after I pay off my debts and books. I may just take the pay loss and only work what's required. I would need to check with my foreman about that. I can bring it up with my training director but I feel he will remind me that he did warn me about the traveling. Since the local I'm out of is rather small. The JWs here have referred to it as being a travelers hall.
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I was able to work out 6 10s as a first year apprentice but I was pretty fucking burnt out, and my drive wasn't nearly that bad. You're fatigue WILL get the better of you either on the job or your drive. Your job will always push you because they are also being pushed. Think of your girl, and your future with her, and go to the hall man please
7 10s is brutal. I wouldn't do it more than a week, maybe two, personally. Your body and mind need rest days to recover. Especially with a two hour commute. In many ways, that's harder on you than the work schedule. You need to pace yourself, if you're going to not burn out.
I completely agree. Last week was the first time since I started working here where I did work the full week. Even then I was late a few times. I took Monday off this week and just slept and had a real meal. I think the worst part of working here is honestly the commute. Just got because I haven't found a place local or just started sleeping in my car at a truck stop or something. I think I been getting around 5 hours of sleep a night. I know last night I got around 3. Only thing keeping me going lately is my Adderall prescription and a coffee in the morning. I'm trying to avoid burnout. Working at caterpillar really got messed up. I got where I didn't even wanna show up and I can't afford to do that for this career. Thinking I'm gonna try what some of the other folks on here said. See what works best.
My brother in the trades, do not sacrifice your health for anybody. Sacrificing your sleep will have a direct, negative effect on your physical health - it leads to heart disease and neurological problems. Find a way to get your 8 hours of sleep at all costs.
Pull over and sleep if you're nodding off. Talk to a foreman about taking a Saturday or Sunday off as necessary, maybe 1 every weekend or every other. Work is important but so is your quality of life. Take care of yourself brother
I almost did that a few times. Lately I been stopping and stretching standing for a few minutes. When I start getting bad. It depends if I'm running late or not. Starting next month I'll not work overtime. It's for the best.
Work the 6/10 that the job call was for. All overtime is optional
That is true. I was leaning towards taking the pay cut and getting a day of rest. Maybe even not working the weekends at all. But that would be after the 3rd. Deadline to pay off my books. So Im needing the extra money.
Work to live baby Not the other way around
This is something I can get behind. Completely. Work to live. For a better tomorrow.
Hey bud. Fellow apprentice here with 158. I know you might not want to hear it. You’re falling asleep at the wheel. Think about this rationally, here. You’ve got a GF who loves you. She gives you motivation to keep going, right? Use that motivation to keep yourself alive. Talk to your training director. Talk to your foreman. Work 6 days a week that they told you you’d work. Do not keep doing this to yourself. It might seem like shit now, but it only gets worse the longer you do the 7/10 grind. It WILL get to be worse. Please, do 6/10s. Take your Sunday off. Spend time with your gf, sleep, whatever, but rest on the Sundays. Double time isn’t worth killing yourself or potentially others over, buddy.
Yeah that's a good point. I think the main consensus has either been leave the job or no longer work 7/10s. While I don't really think I should leave the job yet. I do think that I should probably call the hall and see if maybe I can get my hours reduced or talk to the foreman about it. Because last week was the only week I work 7 days fully. Every other week I've missed a day. So I was doing 6/10s. I'm going to pay attention this weekend because I'm pretty sure the foreman walks around and asks if you want to work Saturday and Sunday. My current plan is to do two more weeks like I have been. So that I can kill some smaller debts and pay off my books. And then after the 3rd. I just no longer work weekends. I do think calling my hall and seeing if he thinks that would be possible. Because it really is a safety concern.
Definitely call the hall and tell them. Just take it easy, alright? Try not to die on the road falling asleep, think about what’s going for you in life. You’ve got a gf who loves you, family, etc… for 14 hours a day, is it really worth potentially killing your self on the road over? Gotta look out for yourself, because unfortunately nobody can do it for you. We can help, but we can’t look out for you as effectively as you can.
That's the goal. Id rather not die. I was planning on calling the hall yesterday however I remembered that my lunch is their lunch and they wouldn't have answered if I called l. So I ended up texting and explained the situation the best I could. It showed that the message had been read but I never got a response. I'm expecting it to take a few days before I get a response. My general experience with him so far is that he's very busy. We had a bit of a mishap at work today. I'm delayed and responding to everyone because there's just so many comments. But we had to accident today. Where one of the other crews was trying to move this pressurized air pipe. So basically they had ignored safety steps or follow them but made a mistake. They said the wrong pipe was the depressurized. So when the guy removed the coupling it exploded in his face. It did a lot of damage the brackets the pipe. And it flooded the entire place with pressurized air that was mixed with rust and dust. The guy I was working with said you could literally taste it in the air. We had a stand down and evacuated the building and waited outside. I think we we're outside for like an hour or two. The guy who been up there was alive. I heard his face was cut up and he's most likely not going to be able to hear very well for a while. But we're basically giving a choice today. Half of the crew went home. No penalty no pay. I was going to tough it out and stay the whole day. However I personally have a history of asthma. After we return to work I had started coughing pretty aggressively. I was like a wall away in this transformer room when the pipe went off. So I had walked through the dust and didn't think about covering my mouth. And then when we got the all clear we could go back to work. It was still really dusty inside. You could still taste it. Still see it in the distance. I basically have been coughing pretty much the last 3 hours. Even after I got the face mask. So I decided I probably should go home and just get some rest. But hey 5-hour pay is better than 2 hour pay. I'm thinking about stashing some face mask away and most likely going to see if I can get a new prescription for an inhaler just in case ahah.
you don't have anyone with a company truck that you can carpool with and snooze?
There's a reason so many of us have substance abuse issues and chronic fatigue.
That's very funny you say that. I remember being asked if I smoked or drink. Which I don't. I used eat edibles but I value IBEW and this career path infinitely more. The guy told me that I don't smoke or drink yet. But I'm going to need to start one of them if I'm going to make it. I've also noticed a lot of the older guys making designated napping spots for breaks. Which I found interesting. I didn't know you could make a slightly comfortable napping spot with construction material and plastic wrap.
My nap spot is in a sea-can with a bucket and a cardboard backrest
Yeah I stopped reading after "I do 7/10s two hours away". That's fucked. That's stupid. That's asinine. That's just wrong. Ain't no reason why you need to dedicate your entire existence to whatever bs they're tryna have you do. Everyone needs breaks. I'm so sick of this work to live and live to work mentality America has. Sounds like a terrible gig you got thrown into.
I agree with you there. I don't want to live to work. The money is nice but I need time to settle. I got into this for a future. I don't wanna work till I die. Overall It isn't ideal traveling two hours away. The most common response when I tell people at work is fuck that. You gotta find somewhere closer. Which I am planning on trying to figure something out so I can be closer to work. Basically buy a van and live in it or just sleep in my car. Not ideal but I think it may be cheaper than renting or a hotel room. After the 3rd I will no longer be working Sundays. Maybe even Saturdays if they allow me. Need that rest.
Your life sounds terrible and I’m sorry
It's not all bad. Got good days and bad days. Just another thing I need to figure out. I been trying not to complain for the most part.
When I was an apprentice, I told my foreman to go fuck himself trying to get me to do 7 tens. You're just fuelling some assholes cocaine addiction. There is better work out there.
It’s mind boggling the culture in this trade sometimes. Encouraging people to work 7/10s. That is crazy. You are only required to work 40. And overtime should be optional. If you have debts and other obligations, I get that. But don’t kill yourself trying to prove yourself to others. Work/life balance is important. Try and find a work schedule that works for you and find somewhere closer to home. You have options! Seek them! The school should be able to help you out.
That is true. The call is for 6:10 so I believe I would need to work 6 days minimum. But I could not work Sundays and it should be fine. However I also want to say that there's been several times where I've been asking I'm working Saturday and Sunday. So I might be able to just not work weekends at all. I'm planning on asking about that and then maybe just working 5 days after the 3rd. I do agree with you. Everyone's different and I just got to find the right work schedule for me. I'm still considering if I should call my hall and ask. I'm not sure if I want to leave I don't even know if I have the possibility. I've been told by the JW's that I really don't have the same privileges as them. As in I cannot just up and leave a job. I either need to be laid off on friendly terms or be fired on negative terms. And with me being a first year apprentice. It is my understanding that if I am fired because I did something wrong and it's my fault I am at risk of being expelled from my local. But yeah I'll see about calling and see what he says. I wouldn't mind a job closer to home but I also wouldn't mind just working 8 hours or working 5 days a week.
You need to call and talk to your training director let them know what's going on. You want to get ahead of the ass chewing because if you keep being late and calling out, there will be one. Also, what you are doing is dangerous, and of course, you are getting burnt out easily. Your director may be able to place you in a closer job or talk to your company about changing your work schedule. Are you getting paid per diem? If you can, I would hold back on the debt payments and build a bit of a cushion of money. Ask around the site what other people are doing if they are staying closer to the site and see if they have spare room for you. I'm willing to bet someone has a place they can hook you up with.
I should probably call him. I'm a little worried because when I got put on this call. This was the closest call. It was this or a place in Kentucky. So thats 2 hours away vs 6+ hours away. Granted it's been a month. So maybe something closer is available. That and I don't wanna risk getting kicked out. First year is the probation period. Me being late is an issue but I always texted my foreman and let him know. Same for taking days off. As for the Per diem. That isn't something I'm getting. I am getting an incentive though that is being added to my hourly wage. I can put my debts on hold for a little while and focus on getting money build up. I had them for a few years now anyway. Just gotta pay off my books before the 3rd. Which is the plan ATM. I have asked some folks here. Alot of them are doing hotel rooms or campers. 4-500 a week I believe for hotels. I think it was 1500 and something for a camper spot. I have talked with one of the other apprentice out of my local and we had planned on getting a hotel or rent something together. But he got into a car accident and I haven't heard much about that since then. I can check up with him since he is back and working again.
See if any jmen have room in their campers. How much is your incentive? Check Craigslist for room and board or Airbnb. I think driving that much working 7-12s is very dangerous. I know it can be hard as a first year, but reaching out is better than bottling up the issue.
Your JATC or contractor shouldn’t have placed you on a two hour drive. Especially at your wage. You only have to work your 40. I recommend apprentices only ever work their 40. Unless you have some hall that is going to let you test out early as you hit your hours you are only extending your apprenticeship.
That's a really good point about extending the apprenticeship. I did hear you can take some kind of test and like possibly skip years. But I was told that if you take that people will hate you so I haven't I even bothered to ask about it yet. I do think the only real benefit other than money obviously. My local has it but after you work I think it's $1,000 hours. You get access to insurance. Currently I believe I'm nearing 400 hours. I honestly don't know if they had a choice. It's my understanding that they wanted us to get experience and get some money saved up so that we can afford the $900 books for school in August. And I believe I had two choices. A really big job in Memphis that's 2 hours away or going to Kentucky which is like 6 plus hours away. In the end I didn't even make a choice it was decided for me and I'm kind of glad it was 2 hours away because I had no money I was struggling when I first started. I literally used my last two paychecks for Union fees, dues, tools, and gas to get to work.
We are all human beings bro talk to the training director, have a talk with your foreman. People are a lot more understanding than you’d think. I personally HATE driving so I’ll be dipped in shit before you’d find me driving 2 hours to work or doing 7-10’s or 12’s
Yeah I do think I'm probably going to call my director and see what he says. A little iffy because I don't know if I want to be taken off this job and I have a feeling he's going to say that he told me that this job had a lot of traveling in it. Because he did tell me that like six or seven times during the interview. Which I don't really mind the traveling part so far. But I seem to be having some issues.
Too much man. 6/10 should be a max and only for 3 months. It’s not worth it, don’t be a tough guy.
I think I'm man enough to try and push through it. But wise enough to stop and ask for help / advise. This is a 6/10 job. The seventh day isn't mandatory here. But most of the crew has been doing it. But I am going to call the hall and see what they say. I really think I need to stop working weekends if possible. At the very least stop working Sundays. The plan is to do this for two more weeks. Then stop and use Sunday as a day for rest from them on. Just so I can pay off my books and kill some debts.
I agree with everyone else that this is an impossible schedule to work safely. talk to the people at your local about it your siblings are here to help. Now in general When working overtime all your needs become double. make sure you are eating a balanced and filling diet, you need energy. Keep this in mind: sugar is energy for right now, carbs are energy for an hour from now, and protein is energy 2-3 hours from now. Fruits make for better sugars than candy. Vegetables (leafy greens in particular) reduce that feeling of fatigue in your muscles and help keep your brain at 100. trying to ween off caffeine is a really good idea. caffeine is a crutch when you need a splint, it'll help but get through the day but the more you use the higher your tolerance builds and the more you need. That said you lose your caffeine tolerance quickly. It takes about 8 hours to go back to baseline caffeine tolerance so if you space out your use by about 8 hours or so you find it affects you more, that said if you can lose the dependency all together even better. Next up stretch and flex not only at the start of the day but after every break, and before and after driving especially if your commute is over 30 minutes. This also will help with that muscle fatigue. Make sure you're really getting the whole body when doing this. Sleep is so important, your 14 hours out of the house that leaves 10 to rest. You need between 6-8 hours of sleep it's sooo important. Screens of 30-min to an hour before you are going to sleep. if the sun is still up when you hit the pillow get some black sheets to hang in front of the window it's much cheaper than getting blackout curtains. If you need to use some over the counter sleep aids and use as the box directs. remember those meds are there to help you sleep for 8 hours if you can't sleep that long don't take the medicine getting up will be impossible. If you're gf doesn't mind a smart bulb set to turn on at the time you wake up can make for an easier way to wake than a jaring alarm. just to reiterate, that is not a safe schedule. Talk to everyone you can about it and see if you can get per diem for your travel time or lodging at a nearby hotel because 2 hours is a terrible commute.
I think currently the only person getting Per diem is like the supervisor. At least on my crew. I think that's what he is. The Foremen report to him and he reports to the site director. I don't believe any what else is getting it. I thought that I would be getting it when I got the job. How it was explained to me that that is more for people who are travelers. Which I am it's on my paperwork. But he said it was people out of state like from Kentucky or Georgia. Since I live in Alabama driving 2 hours to Tennessee. I thought I would be getting it. Currently my diet has been mostly protein or high protein foods. I think like three or four weeks ago I went to Sam's club and got a lot of high protein healthier foods in bulk. And I believe that is about gone now. So I'm going to need to go back and get more or give alternative diet. I mainly been drinking water, propel water, some Gatorade. I've mostly cut out soda I will occasionally get it on the way home from work but I've been trying really hard to get into shape and eat healthier and gain some muscle. Because I generally feel weaker than the people that I work with and I don't want to be a liability. The only caffeine I really have right now is I will get a double shot coffee drink at the gas station every morning to help me stay awake for the drive. I didn't like the occasional soda I'll get on the way home. I think my sleep is really broken right now. I haven't trying to sleep by 9:00 which will give me 6 hours. Whenever I leave work if I drive straight home with no stops I will get home around 7:10. If I stop anywhere it becomes like 7:45. So my nights tend to be shower either skip eating or find something to eat. Normally when I eat something I stay up an extra 30 minutes to an hour. Like yesterday I had about 3 hours of sleep. I cooked a bunch of chicken in bulk to bring to work. And I underestimated how long it would need to cook in. The recipe said 8 minutes. It took 20 minutes per five pieces. I am leaning towards not working any overtime after the 3rd. I think that will just generally help reduce a lot of my issues currently and honestly will probably save me more money.
Do you live outside of your jurisdiction? And idk. If u want the money, then make yourself a morning coffee to drink on the drive in. Focus on getting to sleep early. But overall, it’s not that worth it as an apprentice, because you’re getting all this ot and still likely less than a jm working 40. Maybe not with the double time, but… And What local?
Yeah I believe I am. I live like 40 mins away from my local hall. My local is 852. I had to go to the Memphis JATC building and then to local 474 to get sent out to this job. I been told by some of the JWs here that my local is likely a travelers hall. Hense the distance.. In the morning. I usually take my prescription then get ready for work. I stop at a gas station to refill and I usually grab a double shot coffee drink. That usually keeps me going most of the drive. It's been the first 40 min drive to the gas station and usually the end of the drive where it gets rough. Long back roads in farmland... I'm going to be getting a coffee machine at some point though. Also about DT. From what I can see on my paystubs. Working Sunday is almost 2 days pay. It's slightly less.
Please be careful brother last job I was on we had an apprentice crash his car on a Sunday morning on his way into work he broke his back and was out of work for almost a year
That's been one of my bigger fears. I don't think it's a matter of if I'll get into an accident but more when I'll get into an accident. I've had a few close calls. Luckily never with another driver. The roads are usually dead in the mornings. But I definitely started to drift off the road and then the little bumps like alert me when I am off the road I need to turn back. What usually worries me is there are large sections of the roads that I'm on that don't have those little alert grooves or whatever. Had I gone on one of them I would be in a ditch or worse. Another thing that worries me. One of the apprentices out of my local got into a car accident. Luckily he was wearing a seatbelt so he didn't get like super hurt. But it totaled his car and put it out of work for like 2 weeks. The two weeks he spend recovering and looking for a new vehicle. I think currently he's using a rental.
Damn man I don’t know how you are doing that. I don’t think anyone could sustain that for long, that’s just too much work/commuting and not enough time for other things. I’m all about having a good work life balance, if you talk to your training director they have got to be able to help you find a solution especially if you tell them about how you feel unsafe driving in on that little sleep
Yeah I'm thinking about calling today and explaining and seeing what he says. I don't necessarily want to leave this job since the pay is really well I've got on friendly terms of the people I work with. But the work life balance is honestly awful and I don't think it's if but more like when I'll have an accident. I've been worried that I've been overly dramatic with how rough it's been most days. Normally I'm fine after I make it to the gas station but the gas stations 40 minutes away on the highway. Like my entire drive from my house to the gas station is on the highway and the only one out at three or four in the morning are truckers and police. I think one of the apps on my phone tracks my driving and it went from like a score of 80 something down to like the score 42. Since I started this job.
No. Don’t do it. What they’re leaving out is that when the job begins to come to an end. And they start trimming the fat. You will be first,on the list,if you are not seen as knowledgeable,about that specific job. Or even interested enough to,to show up every day. They pay that double time. Because it’s well worth it to them to do so. The more familiar everyone is with the job. The more smoothly it goes. Take your weekends off. Your little apprentice wage check is not hurting that contractor one bit. Money is hard to come by as an apprentice. Take what you can get. And learn all you can while doing it. Now some guys will try, to work the double time day and take off the weekdays. But it’s not worth the unemployed days when you catch the first layoff. Not to mention your good reputation when you do turn out. Work all six. And seven,if you can. My last couple of years as a journeyman. I worked, in a power plant. We were,on a 4/10 schedule. But there were lots,of shut downs. 6/10s. 7/12s and more. When you do turn out. You will have the opportunity to work some of those hours. And at journeyman wages. It really adds up. Especially,if you don’t skip weekdays and become a forman. Because you’re familiar, with the plant. In my case it was good. Cause,in 2015,at the age,of43 I had a stroke. Due?, to a malformed artery I was born with. So forced into early retirement. But I had enough hours,for full SS disability. And two,of three pensions. I’m only52 now. Been retired 8 years. Gotta wait,for65 to get international third pension. But you never know. Work every hour you can! It all goes to retirement. And that’s the goal. Retire alive. And with all your limbs. Fingers and toes. Right?
That is the plan at least long term. I wanted to join because I desired a future and a retirement. I generally felt that I had no future at any of my past jobs. That was is really stressful. It kept me up last nights. I feel this is most likely the best path for me. And I'm not interested in losing any limbs. I'm just currently worried that fatigue is creeping up. I can already feel it in the mornings. And I feel at the current rate it isn't a question of if I will get into an accident but when I will get into an accident. So I've been trying really hard to push for the weekend pay. No matter what I work the weekend. I feel like I'm still meeting the requirements of 6/10. Since I am still working 6 days 10 hours. But I am looking into alternatives. Like sleeping at truck stops. And eventually getting a van and seeing if I can make that until like a mini apartment at least have a bed and a mini fridge in it. I believe my girlfriend isn't working today. So I was going to talk with her and figure out the day she is working nights so that I can just sleep near work. I think my goal right now at least work-wise. Is to be more reliable. That's what this one guy at work told me today. That was my only goal as a first year. Be reliable and learn as much as you can.
Weekends are OPTIONAL brother. Go ahead and take every other weekend off. But also highly recommend talking to the director and see if they can get you rotated, tell them the drive/cost of gas/mileage going on your car is making it not worth the OT offered and see what he says.
I wasn't able to call him today. I had planned to at lunch break but then I remembered that my lunch is their lunch and no one's going to answer. However I did send a message and he did read it. I just haven't gotten a response yet. I believe it's probably going to take a few days. Honestly that is a very valid point. I think I'm bringing home like 462 for working Sundays. Which is equal to like 2 days pay if my math is right. And like I'm spending $280 minimum a week on gas and drinks at gas stations. It's like an average of $30 a day for gas and about $10 for drinks. I've been leaning on double shot expresso coffee drinks in the morning to get to work. I also grab a propel water in the morning so that I can drink it at work till first break. And then after work I stop and grab two propel waters for the ride home.
Talk to your training director. I was scared to rock the boat as an apprentice too since they make such a big show of threatening to throw out anybody that isn't fully committed, but it will lead you to being F'ed over and exploited by foremen that care more about getting their bonuses and keeping their bosses happy than making sure you're getting the training you signed up for and that you have acceptable working conditions to do your work safely. There are great foremen that take care of their crews and give their apprentices plenty of opportunities to learn new skills on the job while staying on schedule but you're going to deal with both and you have to learn to stand up for yourself and stick to your guns, especially with the contract backing you up. Refusing overtime will put you in a position where you're going to be laid off earlier than other people that stuck through it the whole way. But it's not mandatory and your health and mental sharpness is much more important than putting in a bunch of more hours that's going to get taxed to death anyways. Besides, us journeymen don't have to take night classes anymore except to earn more certifications and get our continuing education credits to stay current on our license every few years at our own leisure. You still need to have something left in the tank to get you through those classes and actually absorb some of what they're teaching you. Plus, a bunch of my classmates got divorced or had their long-term relationships dissolve as a result of working and going to school all the time and never having any time or energy for anything else. If this is a girl that you want to marry and you aren't just passing the time with her, you should definitely try to get more balance in your life to spend time with her. She's being a trooper and rooting for you, but everybody's got their limit. Even if things don't work out, everybody needs some time to rest, relax, and actually enjoy their lives so they can come back to work recharged and ready to go. It's one thing to sacrifice your personal life and happiness to grow your business as an entrepreneur with the goal of one day getting to chill back and enjoy that passive revenue stream. And it's another to do that for the sake of someone else's enrichment for 10 cents on the dollar. A lot of these guys that regularly work a sh**ton of overtime for years on end either have to because they keep spending their money on things they never get to enjoy or their lives have become so empty outside of work that this is all that they have. Either way, the fact that you're falling asleep behind the wheel is plenty of reason to either scale back your hours or get relocated to a different job and company if that's not a possibility. Whether it's on the road or at the job, you're going to get yourself or someone else either killed or badly hurt if you keep going this route. And if someone else gets harmed because of your exhaustion, the victim, their attorney(s), and the law are not going to give a damn about your personal problems since you knowingly got behind the wheel while your ability to drive was impaired. Take care, brother, and don't be afraid to speak up. There's a difference between being a hard worker and letting someone work you like a slave.
I ended up calling him. I plan to call him on my lunch break but I remember that my lunch break is his lunch break and he's not going to answer. So I wrote a somewhat lengthy message. Explaining everything. And it was seem but I never got a response. Thinking I'm probably going to have to call him or go in person. That was a few days ago though. So far I like the supervisor. He's a older dude who like on the verge of retiring. He's been really chill and I feel like I can feel my faith in him. He's been real with me but he's been understanding really I feel like he's understanding. He was like you picked a hell of a job to get into if you have asthma. But it will get better in the future because you won't always be a job like this. And he gave me some advice on getting a good hard hat if I wanted to buy my own cuz I was considering it. Something a little bit more personal and long-term. The apartment that I'm assigned to. I'm a little bit iffy about. I don't think he's a bad guy but he jokes around a lot but he's been also understanding and trying to give me experience and advice. Some of the other guys I work with keep calling him a rat because he's doing things he's not supposed to do as a foreman. Like picking up tools and actually working. I been told you're not supposed to do that as a foreman. Honestly I am heavily considering just no longer working overtime or doing overtime off and on. The money really helps just having an extra few hundred dollars a week as like a buffer. Like the week I work 7 days I noticed it and it did really help but I felt awful. I'm also really wondering what my taxes are going to look like. How much I make a week and how much they take away the week. I would say they maybe take away like 30 to 40%. I think I'm making about 2,000 a week but I'm only taking home like 1,400 most weeks. I swear to God if I owe money to the government when I do my taxes.. I'm going to be pissed. I know my girlfriend's mom told me that working so much overtime actually is detrimental in several ways. Obviously you are going to be tired and fatigued. But after so many hours they're going to tax the overtime so much that you're actually losing money by working it. So moving away 7 days a week and doing off and on maybe every week or two weeks probably is the best way to do it. Maybe I just do it based on how I'm feeling. I've also noticed something. I'm sick I think I've been sick for the past 4 weeks. It's bad I'm just now noticing that I'm not getting any better. I think the accident that happened at work the other day maybe made it worse. We had an incident where a high pressure air pipe wasn't properly depressurized or they depressurize the wrong pipe. So when the guy uncoupled it it blew up in his face literally. The guy is fine I already had a bunch of cuts on his face and he's very likely near deaf now. It was a total mess up. It had like flooded the building with dust and rust. And we had to evacuate and to stand outside for like an hour and a half. Tennessee went back inside and it was still really dusty and foggy it was better than before but you can taste it in the air. Safety said it was safe but they ended up telling everyone if you don't feel safe working you can go home no penalty no pay. Like a dumbass I tried to push through it. They gave everyone these masks and I went back to work for like another 3 hours before asking if the offer to go home early is still available. I went home because I had asthma my whole life and I was coughing pretty much Non-Stop afterwards. And now my cough is worse. As for my girlfriend. This is the only serious relationship I've ever had my entire life. I completely given up on the thought of dating someone. Like I dated in in Middle School in high school but they weren't serious. It was just a title you know. I'm very serious about this person and I'm open to the possibility of marriage but I want to be in a stable position before I take such a commitment. Realistically we've only been dating for like I think 6 months. Like the guys at work talk about checking out the women at work and talking about like fucking them in the ass and wondering how good they give blowjobs and stuff. Didn't ask me what I think or telling me to go give that girl my dick and I'm just not interested. I just go I don't know about. Or just laughing and refusing. Starting to wonder if they think I'm gay but they know I have a girlfriend and they've seen pictures of her so I don't know lol. But I've never met another person who's on the same wavelength as me and is the same kind of weird. She's also an artist and she's been helping me draw more. Since thats been a long time Passion of mine that I've just given up on. So it's fair to say that I'm very serious and extremely committed to this relationship. I'm actually trying to help her or I'm wanting to help her set up like a business or she can sell her artwork and crafts. I also sort of want to open up my own business I just have to figure out what's really viable my area. But that is a long-term goal. I probably after I become a journeyman and save up some money and get my own place that sort of thing. And yeah you're right. I'm going to see you when I can change either be a moving closer to work finding a different job within the Union. I know I really need to take more breaks and days off honestly to stop overtime or do it off and on instead of constantly. I don't want my life to be defined by infinitely working. I want to be able to enjoy my interests and hobbies. Lastly I would much rather not die or get someone else killed. I think that would ruin my life in multiple ways.
8 and skate man, unless you need that money or want to save up for something.
Realistically I do need the money. Currently I'm paying off my books. I have about $500 left on it and the deadline is the third. I would have had it paid off by now but the 500 I put in it like 3 weeks ago was never processed. And I didn't figure that out until last week. My current plan is books for school. Then killing $6,000 of credit card debt. Which has been steadily gaining more and more interest despite me making minimum payments. The interest is more than the minimum payments lol. This happened while I was unemployed taking care of my grandma for a year. That was 2 years ago I think. But after I get that done..I can start saving up and maybe see about buying a used work van and setting that up as a little apartment. At least enough to sleep in.
Well, fuck. Get it after it. No overtime is mandatory. Even if the call was for 6 12s , I would work what I want. Of one day you need a break. Leave at 8. Skip and sunday whatever you have to do. Don't kill yourself, burn yourself out. I known the jatc says work all the hour available. But they can't actually make you do that. Do what's best for you. Find that balance. At the end of the day nobody is going to care of you but you. Best of luck
Yeah that's that's actually some really good advice. I think I'm going to work as I can start focusing on taking more days off when it doesn't penalized me. I think tomorrow will be my last Sunday for a little bit. And I might even start taking some Saturdays off if they say it's optional. I think I need to focus on rest and getting in better shape. Do my best to avoid burnout. That really is going to bring me down.
Overtime isn’t mandatory.
That is true. Overtime isn't mandatory. My first week there I was told by the group I was working with. Work weekends take days off during the week. You're throwing away money otherwise. If you have to miss on the weekend. Make sure it's not Sunday. But yeah I'm leaning towards not working anymore weekends if able starting after the 3rd. That is the deadline to have my books paid off for school.
Don't drive if your eyes are blinking. Pull over and sleep it's not worth your life. Even a 15 minute nap does wonders. Nap at lunchtime if possible etc. Can you get into a car pool? Even half the way would help
I have considered pulling over and sleeping a few times. Especially when I'm already running late. I have been taking naps during lunch break. But usually my issue has been in the mornings. I'm usually awake enough in the afternoon where I'm yawning but not drifting or blinking for longer than I should. I had talked with an another apprentice from my local. Since he lives literally down the road for me. He has asked before if we wanted to do like a trade system where I drive one day he drives next and we paid for each other's gas. But he actually got into a car accident like a month ago I think. I believe it was the second week we started. He's okay he just missed like I think 2 weeks of work. Totaled his car and I believe he is looking for a new one. The last I heard he was going to message me about carpooling with me but he hasn't done that yet.
Yea local 26 says the same thing about apprentices working all available hours as long as it doesn’t interfere with school. 3 years in and I’ve never worked forced overtime. Seems like all talk from the jatc. Need to take off the weekends to recharge and for your sanity.
I think we are required to work the hours that we agreed to which would be 6/10. There isn't forced overtime. It isn't mandatory. I was just told specifically that not working Saturday and Sunday is basically throwing away money. Works the weekends take a day off during the weekdays. That was the advice given to me by multiple journeyman that I have worked with so far. I'm actually really interested in how the schooling works. I haven't started that yet. The last I heard is the director of my local is trying to figure out something to do about The travelers like me. He said that if we were to pull all the apprentices out 2 days a week. We would basically shut the job down. And since we are traveling from so far away. it isn't really viable to have us drive 2 hours back for the class. The last I heard is that they're looking into online options. Which I think is going to be interesting.
If you’re working 7/10a you have to be making some decent money even if you’re an apprentice. I would say maybe stay two days a week and drive what you can. I’ve been down your road drove 3 hours with a partner one way for five months doing five tens it was awful not to mention six years two hour commute. Stay safe
Yeah I'm making what I would consider decent money. But I'm realistically living paycheck to paycheck right now. It should get better in time as in once I get some stuff paid off like my books you know. That should be paid off next week. And then I can literally just drop money in my credit cards and still use my credit card some to make it through the week. I was paid Tuesday my paycheck was gone Tuesday. If my bank balance is correct. I have a few hundred left and that should get me until Wednesday. At the start of next month things should be better incomewise when I don't have strict deadlines.
Coming from the line side where working those hours isn’t super uncommon if you really do need the money like your saying and have to keep working get a cheap gym membership to shower after work and sleep in your car a night or two a week won’t have anything better to do so you can catch up a lot of hours of sleep that way. As for the life work balance part there really is no way of fixing that just decide to hate your life lol did that for a long time at the beginning of my apprenticeship
That's something someone at work recommend. I was learning towards that. If I can manage to sell my Jimmy and buy a van. I could setup a little bed and get a gym membership for the bathroom and shower. That's sorta what I was looking at.
If you can afford it, never give them more then 50 hours a week. It's not worth it to do more
That's what I'm leaning towards. Kill debts and just do my agreed work hours afterwards. I'll make less money but I should be able to not be so freaking tired.
Take your days off when you need! You've earned them. From experience though, contractors and foreman will get annoyed with you working the weekends but taking weekdays off. Work what you can!!! Also note that every hour you work is an hour towards your license, towards your retirement, towards your benefit package as a whole!! Ive worked 7/12s, 5/16s+2/8s, you name it. The work is always there if you're a hard worker and willing to learn. Base your decision on your health, mental and physical! Cheers! JWSheehan Local 103 Boston
So far I haven't really had anyone really mention it. I've had some jokes about it but nothing in an official capacity. I still am working 6/10 which is what the call mandated. Last week was the first week I worked 7 days in a row. Would you like to meet taking off Monday because I felt just awful. I literally slept through my dozen alarms. And didn't get out of bed till noon. That is something that I had thought about. At my local I don't have any benefits yet. My first benefit was after 1,000 hours. The last time I checked I was around 400 I think. Give or take. I'm trying to learn and absorb information. I made it a habit to always listen around me for like gossip and rumors. Trying to get the general lay down of what's happening. So far a lot of people are on the verge of dragging up and other people are worried about layoffs. But I'm willing to work and I'm willing to learn. I've just been trying to do whatever I'm told within reason.
Speak to your training director, they should be able to help.
I didn't have time to call him like I plan to today. I did send him a message since it was just more convenient and he read it he just hasn't responded. I'm expecting a response within a day or two at most. I'm just not sure what the response is going to be.
Find someone to carpool with, preferably a JW, because they should pay for gas, and someday when you are a JW you can pay for gas. Or ask around on site about who lives close, who has a room for rent, or a place to crash. My first job was 2-1/2 hours away and I stayed in a flop house of IBEW guys and they let me stay for free, that allowed me to save up for a cheap used trailer to stay in because my local covered the entire state and they really didn’t care where they sent you or how far from home it was. If you have a wife and family I understand that makes things harder, but my wife understood that it was a sacrifice we both had to make for the next 5 years.
One of the guys at work did offer to let me sleep where he is staying I'm assuming for free cuz he didn't mention the price or anything. He just said you need to bring like an air mattress and clothes and stuff. I think I'm probably going to take up his offer. Planning on talking to my girlfriend tonight and seeing what days she works night shift just staying closer to work on those days. Since I realistically will only see her for like 10 minutes in the morning when I wake up days she works night. I I was talking to one of the people out of my local another apprentice. We had planned to basically take turns. Where I drive one day and he drives the next. However he got into a car accident I think last month and was out for 2 weeks. Thankfully he didn't get hurt badly. But we really haven't talked much about it since then.
It's a job. Call your organizer and talk to them or find something else. Take care of yourself, your work rate is absolutely unsafe.
I have somewhat done many people had suggested. I plan to call today during my lunch break but I remembered that my lunch break is their lunch break and no one's going to answer. I did however send a message and they did read it they just haven't responded yet. I'm expecting a response in 1 to 2 days probably. I might just call them tomorrow I don't know. It is indeed a job. I honestly don't mind the job it's just the fatigue is power creeping. I don't know how people have been going for like 35 days straight without any days off. Like I've heard people talk that their last day off was I think memorial Day and then their next day off will be 4th of July I think. They only take off when there's a holiday and they're not allowed to work. Which honestly I respect that. I just don't think it's good long-term at least not in my situation in which I have such a long ass commute. While I think it would be still rough it would be more manageable if I were able to just live closer or sleep at like truck stops or something. Honestly I think if nothing changes I'm very likely going to get like a gym membership and just start sleeping in my car. I still think getting a van and having it become like a mini apartment with a mini fridge and a little bed in the back is a good idea. At least then I could sleep almost anywhere and not be cramped. I just need to figure out how people do that and not completely kill their battery overnight. I think there's a device but I don't remember what it's called.
Here’s where it’s at my dude. First off you need to take the next couple weekends off and live. Then you need to set up some time off every month like fri-Sun. Next thing is if you want to continue working that site you gotta get closer to talk to some of the other guys and see what they are doing. Maybe you can share a rented house with someone. I don’t know you from Adam but you sound like a good kid. I’ve ran plenty of big long term OT jobs and I always tell guys to schedule time off. But don’t call off. That will send you right to the top of the bye bye list. Good luck friend
That is pretty good advice I'm going to try and remember that for the next job. It might be already too late for this job since I've called off work a lot when I first started. Could ever since they introduce the calendar I think that is what I'm exclusively used. I am heavily considering no longer working weekends. I need to ask and make sure that is something I can do because I remember specifically being asked several times if I want to work Saturday and Sunday. It's a very likely chance that in like 2 weeks I'll just no longer work weekends. I know my original plan was to do two more weeks 7 days and then no more weekend but my girlfriend asked me if I was able to go with her to this reptile expo on the 30th and after taking it over I think I will probably take that Sunday off just to go and look at all the reptiles with her. If I'm right I should have like the major things paid off by Wednesday. That will help me out alot not having strict deadlines that have to meet financially. I have been thinking that if I'm not allowed to take Saturday off. I may just start marking it in my calendar we have and that shouldn't theory make it okay for me it's not work Saturday but I have to remind the foreman. But from what everyone has said I should be allowed to not work more than 40 hours a week. I am looking for something closer or maybe just sleeping in my car. I had a JW offer me to stay at his house. I think it's a one room apartment so I need to sleep in like the living room with like an air mattress. I am pretty sure I'm going to take him up on the offer. I don't think it's a long-term offer. Just if I need a place to stay for a day or two. I also think I might ask one of the guys from my local if he wants to share an Airbnb or something.
In my local (not electrical, same pay), we have commercial guys, and industrial guys. I'm 95% commercial (6-130, 8hrs pay, asked to work weekends maybe 10 times in 5 years), but recently did a stint at a powerhouse. Was supposed to be 7/12s for 37 days. IM capable of that. Maybe 2 days off. But not many people are. Ended up being 2 weeks 7/10s, 2 weeks 5/8s. Some guys rely on the outages for yearly pay, they may do 4 stints in a year, and won't be offered much else depending on when things finish up. My brother is one of them based on where he lives. I get 1800 hrs in a year doing commercial, but I'm padding my pension and bank account with industrial. Do your time, find a home shop to stay with, but more than any of that, BE SAFE. this ain't for everyone. Especially 7/10s. Don't kill yourself and dont get others killed. Balancing the budget and staying alive can be rough sometimes, but ya ain't paying the bills if you're in the hospital.
That's some good points. You can't pay bills if you're not working. You can't pay bills if you're dead. I've been trying to at least match the call 6/10. Since Sunday is optional for this job. This is my first job in construction and last week was the first week I actually worked 7 days in a row. I have needed to take days off like once a week basically. Which day has been random but it's always a weekday. I've been trying to follow the advice of the people I work with. Which was never miss a weekend. So far I think it's the commute and heat over the actual work that I'm doing. I've mostly been the ground man. Spotting for lift operators. Prefabbing some stuff. Handing them tools and large but not very heavy data racks that are just more awkward than anything to pick up. But I've also been in the lift bolting down the data rack brackets. Honestly the biggest thing I don't like about being in a lift isn't really the height. I'm a worried about hitting anything or people. My first week there I was informed that if we hit anything I would be fired and the operator would be fired. I let them do it and they had something both fired immediately. That and was the creeping fatigue and heat. I been working a lot slower than I feel the JW I been helping would prefer. It doesn't really help that I still have the caterpillar mindset. Do it right the first time. Work slow if you have to don't rush and be safe. With more experience you will naturally get faster at the job. So being constantly rushed to be faster is more of a detriment to my work speed than anything.
I quit my first year because of this exact situation. Except I had everyone mad I wasn’t doing anything with them and a gf who liked to screw with my head about the union hall. my local hall was on this bullshit and embezzling money from us first years. I walked into my meeting after being let go from a job with a hour&1/2 commute and told them after a year of six days a week 10 a day constant negative experiences at work I have no reason to be in this union hall anymore other than I loved the work. I have several hall’s trying to get me in because they have seen me at work before at family gatherings or show up. I tell them no because of this experience. all the way from pussy ass journeymen to pussy ass apprentices and the favoritism that generational member apprentices was shown in shirking their duties that would cause ridiculous amounts of delays and I couldn’t take no rest day I took a total of 7 in a year maybe 10 always volunteered to do stuff to learn equipment from skidsteer to excavator. If you really want to stay in that hall. You got to do the one thing I didn’t. COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR DIRECTOR. Also don’t be a baby about what comes out of his mouth just take the trash talk in stride. They understand they are just going to bitch about it. But always remember you have multiple options. Where there’s one union hall there’s another
I have made the commitment not to quit. I'm going to try my best to uphold that commitment. Because I really do feel like this is the best future for me. As of right now the only way I won't be doing this for the foreseeable future is if I get kicked out which is possible since I am a first year in the first year is a probation period. I'm just hoping the schooling isn't bad. That's been so much stressful since I don't know how I'm supposed to study and work like I have been working. Fortunately I don't have anyone mad at me and like my friend group or family for not being around or talk to them. I feel bad about it. Fortunately my girlfriend's really understanding and has just been supporting me. She is definitely noticed how tired I've been. Especially since I took care of my grandma for like 5 years and I went from a deep sleeper to an extremely light sleeper or even like the slightest unusual sound would wake me up. Like talking. And now I'm so dead when I'm asleep and I don't know if anything would really wake me up. I have heard that that is an issue with some locals. Being bad about embezzling money and generally doing shady things. I'm not sure if my local is like that. I know currently I don't think I'm getting any benefits. I remember a JW was looking at my yellow card and telling me what the fees were on it. And he said that I don't have pension on there yet. I know that after the first thousand hours I should have full insurance. Which I will be abusing that and trying to get some things fixed. I am really worried about what my trainer/director is going to say. He did specifically warn me several times during the interview and application process about travel. So I feel like he may be annoyed about me having safety issues with the commute. I planned call him yesterday however I remembered that my lunch break is his lunch break and no one's going to answer if I call. And the hall is closed before I even get to leave work. I however did send a somewhat long message. Which he did read it I got the alert but it was read. However no response yet. I'm expecting a response in a day or two. I know he's a very busy person seeing how hectic my hiring process was. Granted I was a special case because I completely slipped through the cracks. I applied a few days before they send out all the acceptance letters inviting people for the interview. So I fortunately had called him a few weeks before the deadline and we had to like completely Rush everything for me.
If you're strapped for cash now on 6 10s, you'll be really hurting on 4 10s. Honestly, it's not good long term, but when I was in my first year, I was fiendish for overtime like that.
Yeah honestly a lot of the JW's at this work site literally only came to the job because over time. Like this job is really big and chaotic. That's offering overtime this is where you make a lot of really good money. I feel like that is true and I would probably struggle with 4/10. I feel like it wouldn't be that big of an issue depending on what the pay was like. I know my starting pay is like 15 an hour and it depends on what the incentive is. I can say that I should have some of my financial strict deadlines paid off by Wednesday. That being books for the most part. I believe if my math is right I should be in a way better financial spot next week then this week. However I'm going to very likely need to borrow like a hundred bucks one of my friends again just so I can make it to work. I have made a error in my budgeting and spent $100 more than I thought I could. And with the drive costing about $30 a day. 100 would make it like 3 days.
Lol just work 8 and skate. That’s why we’re in the union.
Move with the work, travel back for school. Removes the 2 hour daily. As for the stress of 7/10s 8hrs sleep, gym, healthy food. It’ll catch up to you eventually anyways cause 7/10s but it’ll be delayed.
As for the gf this is what she’s signing up for until you get out the rat race so not seeing each other will have to be dealt with.
Yeah the creeping fatigue has been accelerating. I feel like it's a 2-hour commute the heat and the lack of sleep. I am looking into sleeping up here or staying closer to work. I'm just still trying to figure out how that would work. I'm still leaning towards getting a van and making it like a mini apartment. We like it bed and mini fridge and stuff. I've just been really iffy about getting a used one off Facebook if I can't guarantee that it doesn't have some kind of severe issue with it. But also don't think it's a great idea to clear all my debts and then get into lengthy financing debt. But it's something that I am looking into. As for my girlfriend. She's been really supportive. I'm pretty sure she's noticed how tired I've been. She wasn't super excited about the idea but I think she understood my desire for a future and it's the big 5-year investment. She has expressed interest in traveling with me whenever I go out of state. We talked about if I ever get a camper she could come with me and find just a small part-time job while I work.
The 7 12s, I'd have told you to nut up and you'll get used to it..........the 2 hour commute is outrageous tho, not a chance in hell I'm doin that, I've quit for less.
Yeah I feel one or the other is doable..but both isn't viable long term.
Go to your training director of your apprenticeship and ask to be reassigned a little closer to home I understand your strap for cash but what you're describing is eventually going to lead into a massive car wreck either hurting or killing you or someone else. I was once in your shoes, I've been a JW for five years already. If you're not getting enough free time to take care of your mental health you will eventually explode in a bad way which could also cost you your job because you'll just go off on the wrong person without intention. Another option to consider is perhaps moving a little closer to where the work is if you live way out in the boonies. I live out the boonies myself but I make sure I can get home with plenty of time in the day to take care of my needs which includes quality time with my family. I hope this helps. Stick to the apprenticeship and get through it because once those apprentice years or behind you, you'll look back and thank yourself
I had planned to call him yesterday but I remembered that my lunch break is the same as the hall. So no would have answered if I did. I did text him explaining everything but no response yet. It's showing he read it. I'm expecting a response in a few days. I know he is hella busy from just my past experience. I think somewhere closer to home is a good idea. If we have any closer calls. I do agree that this will lead to an accident. I really would prefer not to get anyone killed or die trying to make it to work. I can say without a doubt. I haven't had time to do anything. I think the second week of work I had a a hella rough day and had a break down on the way home. Had to pull over and cried for like 10 mins. Haven't cried in years. So mental health hasn't been that great. I'm unsure if I'll blow up on someone. I'm not really that kind of guy. Think I only ever did that once. But I have gotten super pissed and that affected my work greatly. I am looking into sleeping or living closer to work. Sleeping in my car or selling my Jimmy and buying a used van. So far I haven't been able to be at home more than an hour and a half before sleep. Last night I ended up laying in bed with my GF and just talking about the day and plans for the future. That helped me out a lot but I slept way later than I meant. Phone says I'm running on about 4 hours of sleep right now.
First, ask around and see if anyone lives in your area to carpool with. Sounds like your GF sees the advantage of seeing you succeed. I’ve lost quite a few relationships over working shutdowns. See if she can help with the daily routines that you don’t have time for… shopping, laundry, cooking and be sure to compensate her for her time & effort! Years ago I built a Sprinter Campervan to live & work on the road, but before that I use to crash in truck stops/ road oasis. Maybe you could break up the week by crashing there every 3-4 days when you need to catch up on sleep rather than taking a day off work. Truck stops charge about $10 to shower. Doesn’t the job have a fatigue policy? Every jobsite I’ve worked required a day or more off every two weeks! Also, good luck and hang in there, it gets better. Difference between a construction worker about to lose everything they have and buying a brand new expensive truck is a month of 7-12’s, lol.
I think the only other person who lives close to me. Is an another apprentice. We had talked about taking turns and carpooling but he got into an accident on the second week going home. He didn't get super hurt but was still hurt. Had to take two weeks off to recover and find a rental. My GF has been really supportive. We only been dating for almost half a year. But we haven't had any issues. I feel lucky I somehow got someone on the same wave link as me. She has helped out some and her mom helps. Mostly meals and laundry. I should get them something or maybe pay them. I been helping with groceries and laundry money wise. I been thinking about trying and getting a van and doing just that. I figured it would save on money long term. Instead of truck stops. I was gonna look into a 24 hour gym membership. They usually have bathrooms and showers. So two birds. Just depends if we got one nearby. I haven't heard anything about a fatigued policy. Seeing how people have been going 20-30 days without a day off. I'm assuming not or it's not enforced.
I hope you're getting paid more than minimum wage. I made 28 an hour as an apprentice where the minimum wage is 16.50
The minimum wage where I live is like 7 something. As a first year apprentice I'm making 15 something. I don't get per diem or anything but the incentive was half what a JW makes. So that adds another 7 hourly. I think I'm making around 23 an hour standard. 34 OT and 42 DT. Its why I was told to always work weekends and take days off during the week. The paycheck has been helping alot pay off stuff. I won't even lie on that. Just creeping fatigue is getting me right now.
First off, fuck all that shit, no job is worth all that wear and tear to your body etc. Want a life like that? Join the military, at least in 20 years you can retire..
I agree there. Completely.
You’re gonna burnout. This will legitimately reduce your life expectancy.
Yeah I think so also. Burnout crash and burn.
As a UA plumber, and i think alot of you IBEW dudes will agree, make sure you rest. A 15 hour day is dangerous. Full stop. At that point, your bomb and it isnt a matter of if, its when. I have seen trade brothers burn the candle at both ends and end up in the hospital from thinking there was more ladder than there was or walkin off a lift that was 12 feet up because he thought he was grounded. You are the investment, protect it.
I can say I have noticed a shard declined in my performance. I had people say something to me or ask me something and I just have to pause and think on what they say. Like an internal lag trying to process what they said. Even had to ask what someone said 2-3 times which has had people get annoyed. Which I understand. Literally the other day me and a JW was trying to prop up a band saw so we could cut at a better angle. My stupid ass grabbed at a spot where it would have cut my hand if we had started it. The JW was like bro don't hold it there.
Like many here, I at first thought the responses would be at least densely peppered with lots of “I work those hours all the time and I’m fine” rhetoric. I have seen nothing but support and fraternity. You guys are all right.
I was expecting more comments like that. I seen a few comments here and there but they got down voted into oblivion. I just generally ignored them. I saw one comment telling me to quit and let another ape take my spot. Ape strong together. Weak devided. Honestly we are having a massive apprentice shortage at this job site. I feel we can take on a dozen more without much issue. So I don't really need to let anyone take my spot. I been trying to respond to everyone else though when I had spare time and service.
7/10s is brutal, even if you live next door. It's made worse by your commute, the mental load of learning, and lower pay. I like the advice here, talk to your bosses, coworkers, and the training director for help.
I have been getting a lot of good advice on here. It's like 95% good advice 5% insults. Which they are like downloaded a lot of those into Oblivion so they don't even show up unless you click on it. I wasn't able to call my training director. But I did send a message I just never got a response. They did read it. I might call and be more direct about it. Or am I just talked to my foreman and maybe the supervisor and see what they recommend. What I'm worried about is they're going to state that I really need to find a place closer which that is the simplest solution if I had some more money. I am planning on staying with a coworker who lives very close to work. But I realistically don't want to overstay my welcome. So I'm going to see about once or twice every so often.
That’s brutal man. I was in the same boat 6/10s living 2 hours away fucked up part though was OT wasn’t optional, took a toll on me mentally
I think I feel for you more. I think my only saving grace is after this week I can just stop working Sundays and maybe even Saturdays if they tell me it's optional. It's taking a toll on me now. Mentally and physically I am exhausted. I'm feeling weirdly sentimental. On a day like today I feel it's going to be difficult to leave my pussy feelings at the door. As I've been told a few times. Honestly I think I might be sick. I know the fatigue is creeped up hard. I slept through all my alarms today and I am running late again for like the 3rd time this week. In my defense we used have to be at work by 7:00am and they moved it Forward by 25 minutes. I'm not late by our old required time but I'm late by the new one. And I've only ever been late like 10 minutes which I know they don't care late is late. But I do think that I'm sick or I'm getting sick. I've developed a cough over the last 2 weeks that just isn't going away and after the incident yesterday with the pipe and all the dust and rust they got flooded in the building. It's gotten a lot worse. But f*** it I'm here and I will be ready to work when I get there. I can't say about a doubt after tomorrow I will no longer be working Sundays at least for a few weeks. And then I might swap to an off on situation.
I thought you were rating a woman apprentice lol
Brother, as someone who’s worked months of 7-12’ with no days off for 90+ days, I hope this helps: Stay in a hotel nearby every other day or every third day One night a week try to fall asleep as soon as your home. Limit your fast food intake. Try to pack your lunches or stop and grab some healthy meals you can microwave. Look for a cheap Airbnb. I did that when I wasn’t in my camper.
I can look at a hotel whenever I figure out the correct way to finance and budget things. Honestly just not having to worry about the books anymore is going to be the best thing. I can say that I did that last night. I came home I put on MythBusters and ended up falling asleep within like 20 minutes. So I definitely got more sleep than normal. My phone says I got about 8 hours of sleep and I can say that I do feel a lot better than normal. A lot more awake but I'm like 100% sure now that I'm sick. I had a suspicion but it's been like 4 weeks now. I'm not really sure what to do about that. I can say I've honestly not eaten much fast food. I think I've had it twice this week. But that's like the first time since I've gotten this job. I was eating a very high protein diet. Just beef jerky. Sunflower seeds. Some of these like protein bowls and some breakfast bowls. I went to Sam's club like 4 or 5 weeks ago stocked up. It's lasted a long time but now I need to do that again cuz I'm I have no food. Just sort of been skating through on some snack stuff. One of the guys at work was really I don't want to call him old because that's sort of subjective. But this older guy was recommending that check out Airbnb commute or something like that. You basically can rent a place just for weekdays. And is it supposed to be a little bit cheaper than standard.
Brother talk to people they will help you out.
Bro you need to get an airbnb near the job. Video call your girl at night. Visit her one day a week
That is something someone told me at least the Airbnb part. Apparently there's something called commuter Airbnb or something like that where you rent for five days and you don't rent on weekends. It's supposed to be cheaper. I had a guy at work tell me about it but that's something I should look into. On the video call with only really be viable on some days. The only time we can realistically do that is day she doesn't work which is like once or twice a week or day she has day shift. Which is like once a week. I will be visiting her as often as I can I think. Currently I'm thinking that I should visit on days off or day shift because we can actually talk and see each other.
Start by searching electrical companies in your area, record their company name and email address in a spreadsheet, and then start sending cold emails using a simple template from ChatGPT w/ your experience. I sent 40-50 emails and got two bites. Plenty of opportunity to find a new company, you just have to put in the tiny effort to get it. 7/10s is straight up slave labour, don’t do that shit. You’re burning yourself out, and if you don’t know what that is you soon will.
I am a very familiar with burnout. It is something that I suffer from. In such a way that when I get burnt out it is extremely difficult to get out of it and it makes doing anything extremely difficult. When I get into this mindset that I'm just wasting my time there's no point to do it and it makes doing the most bare minimum a challenge. I had the same thing happen at Dollar general. I even had this happen while playing some MMOs I used to be addicted to. I could try that however I am just the first year apprentice and I don't really know if I'm able to get hired on outside of the Union? Like I don't know if there's any rules or regulations about accepting non-union electrician jobs.
You only owe them 40 hours and if that's no good they can fuck off.
7 10s is a joke. Everyone needs at least one day off. And is it normal to send apprentices 2 hours away for work where your at? Ours would only do that for volunteers or if it’s really slow
I’d be letting them know I’m working 5 days a week because of the commute. If they don’t care about your well being tell em to get fucked. I’d rather work for a non union company than a shit hole like that. Fuck that x10
Yeah I think that's been the consensus of this post so far. Currently I'm planning on working two more weeks like this so that I can kill some debts and pay off my books before the third. And then after the third no longer working more than 5 days a week. I'm very likely going to call tomorrow and talk with my hall and see what he thinks. Because it is a safety concern.
Your job is supposed to work with your schedule and life. That’s the whole point of finding the right career path and jobs. It sounds like you’re just waiting to burn yourself out, get hurt or worse. So you should talk to your training director, local, your contractor, just anyone that is able to help you find a better jobsite
I think the only job I've ever had that really worked with my schedule life was Dollar general. That job paid $9 an hour and I regularly worked less than 40 hours a week. I had all the free time in the world but I can't live on 100 to $200 a week. Keytronic and caterpillar were both factory jobs. But they had mandatory overtime. Even when I was only supposed to work 4/10. Which is what attracted me to that job. We actually work 6/10 mandatory overtime. The work / life balance in America is just awful. I talked to friends who live in the EU and they don't have a lot of the restrictions mandatory things that we have. Like when I was working retail at Dollar general. I wasn't allowed to sit down. I had to stand up in the same spot behind the cash register and wait for people to be ready to check out. Wildin like the EU or France my friend saving they can sit down when there's nothing to do. Sorry for the tangent. I think consensus of a lot of the people who commented have suggested that I should call and see about finding a different job. Are saying if things can be adjusted. I think I'm going to do that today during first break.
I did 2 weeks on one week off of tens as a 3rd year into 4th year, by that time I was pretty acclimatized to construction work bet when you first start you suck ass so you waste time and energy spinning your wheels, I would suggest doing basically everything they suggest marathon runners to do and probably take work super slow, somtimes work is the recovery with shifts like that lol. Good food, water, take vitamins and make friends at work, move closer if you can.
I think this is some pretty good advice. I don't have a lot of construction history other than painting which isn't something that I'm going to be doing as an electrician. In my last few jobs were factory and retail. My only advantage I believe when I started a month ago. My feet are pretty well adjusted to standing and walking on concrete and hard surfaces all day. I've also dealt with some really shit customers. I've been able to mostly withstand a lot of the criticism and jokes on my behalf. Even some of the more sexual jokes and comments. But my general rule so far. Don't complain. Don't get in the way. Don't be the problem. I'm just listening and trying to do whatever the journeyman I'm working with that day says within reason. I've been taking work really slow. I don't rush anything. I strongly believe rushing will lead to mistakes. Mistakes will lead someone getting hurt. I think working at caterpillar got that stuck in my head. I've been trying to eat the best I can. Hydrate hydrate hydrate. I need to take vitamins. That could be some of my problem. I likely have several deficiencies. I haven't made any friends. I'm friendly with people. But I noticed a lot of the people that I work with I just don't really relate with. Me being like more of an antisocial technology focus person. Might be my biggest weakness. But I consider myself on friendly terms with most of the people I work with. I enjoy hearing their stories and honestly talking to them is really interesting. I really am trying to absorb the advice they're giving me. And I am looking into staying closer to work. I'm honestly leaning towards van and gym membership. I feel like trying to rent when most likely eat heavily into my paycheck. And I'm already struggling currently with that despite I That I would consider being paid pretty decent. It will get better as I continue to kill debts.
Find a carpool. Even if you meet half way, it'll help. You can sleep/nap in the car on days you don't drive. Add up your fuel expenses and see what that's costing a week. Factor in your time spent driving and see if it's worth it to get a motel room for a few nights a week.
Contact your school. You work for the school not the hall. Or that’s how it works in mine. They will take care of you when you tell them it’s just too much. It’s a Brotherhood for a reason 💪. I couldn’t do 7/10’s, and my job sites are normally within 45 minutes of me. You are not outlandish for not wanting to do 7/10’ let alone 2 hour travel each way lol ooofff. There is also that other aspect of is there work near you? If you give this job to someone else will you be on the apprentice books for a while? Deff talk to the person at school about it and see what they say. Our due’s pay these people well to handle these kind of things. Being a first year is terrifying for some because you’re being a good doobie while most people are trying to fuck with you for fun. Don’t sweat asking these questions because if anything it looks good because you care and some people would just keep being late and looking like shit. Nothing is worse than being late or being a no show especially as a first year because that’s what they’re looking for to root out and get rid of before they invest too much money into you. Any logical person who you explain your situation to will understand. Good luck bro and hopefully they get you working somewhere better soon! Also maybe start looking into an apartment closer to work maybe with your woman and take the next step together. 2 hour commute is absurd but obv gutta do what you gutta do. Don’t be late! 😁🫡
When I got this job a month ago. I believe we only had two calls looking for apprentices. One was this one 2 hours away and the other one was 6+ hours away in Kentucky. Im thinking about calling today and seeing if we got anything closer. I been late on several occasions but I always let my foreman know. I also have never no called no showed. I was told that giving a heads up usually is safer. I'll see what I can do. Y'all have understood and been really reasonable. Hopefully my trainer will be the same. Maybe my foreman here will also understand. I could see about finding a place up here and with my GF. I'm currently living with her. She expressed interest in coming with me if I ever have to travel out of state. I was thinking about trying to get a truck and a camper. But I feel getting a van may be more reasonable. At least for now.
It's so strange reading the stark differences between the inside and outside. My first year as an outside apprentice I worked 7/12 for 6 or so months while having to commute almost an 1.5 hour each way because that was the closest trailer park spot available. Do you guys get a choice to work OT? I know if an outside apprentice said no they'd be run off. Not looking to start anything, I just have zero experience inside and am just curious.
“Stark differences” is putting it mildly. It’s almost an entirely different world. I couldn’t imagine bitching about some of the shit these inside apes bitch about. Damn sure wouldn’t be on here crying about my big mean JL.
The money will pay off your debts after that’s gone all will be downhill and very fast start car pool with people that work there
I'm a little bit confused on what you mean. I think currently only like one other person lives near me and it depends on the day. Because some days he lives with family a little bit closer to work and other days he lives where I live essentially like right down the road. We had talked about taking turns. But generally most of the JW's there live or are renting nearby no carpooling wouldn't really be all that viable until I found a place nearby. Which would be reasonable to travel for a carpool.
I will never understand this. The point of joining a union is so that labor is not exploited and working conditions are fair.
In defense of union or at least my current job. It is a 6/10 call. If Sunday being overtime however it isn't mandatory. At my previous job. Which was reman caterpillar. We were working 4/10s but it was really 6/10s. Friday and Saturday were mandatory overtime days which gave you 1.5 pay. With the threat of having to work Sunday which would be double time pay. If you didn't show up but called in you would get two points for missing. If you didn't show up and you didn't call in you would get four points. Because mandatory overtime days also times to the penalty for not showing up. The icing on the cake is after five points you would be fired. How I know is because we had a new hire just like me who was fired the second week for missing and not calling in Thursday and Friday. She didn't show up Saturday and she was let go Monday. Honestly the point system was stupid. Being late more than 10 minutes is a point. Doesn't matter if you show up. Being at work but missing the morning meeting that you have every morning before work. That's a full point. I had a family emergency. In which I had a voicemail from my grandma who had fallen in her bathroom and needed help getting up. Which put me in a panic mode. However I was told specifically by my trainer that if you have a family emergency do not just leave. You have to call the supervisor and let her know otherwise you would be fired and replaced the next day. So I called her and told her what was happening. And she escorted me out and I left I think 4 hours early. The next day we had a one-on-one sit down she said that was a real family emergency instead of giving you the full point for leaving would you rather I take 4 hours of your PTO. I left after 3 months and join the apprenticeship program at local 852. Despite being told by my supervisor but that was a very dangerous job I don't think you should do it. But Good luck. I put in a 2 week notice the day after my interview in which I've been accepted into the Union. Decided the next day that I really just didn't want to go back. I never went back to that job.
Don't think they're obligated any more than 40 hour weeks. That being said, you'd probably get laid off due to "lack of work"
I mean that is true. But the way that I see it I still am working 60 hours a week. Which is what the original call was for. 6/10 and Sunday isn't a mandatory overtime. I was just told specifically by the journeyman that I'm working with to never miss weekends and only if I have to miss or take a rest day do it on a weekday. However I am worried about that and I've been paying attention to people talking around me or when I'm walking by. It seems like some people are worried about layoffs and other folks are also on the verge of dragging up. I believe that's the term. I've heard it a lot but I keep forgetting the specific lingo. Are you able to just get randomly laid off without warning for that? I assumed they would have like a warning system or like they would have a one-on-one talk and be like hey stop missing so much. Maybe I expect too much.
Garbage WOW. I guess you have to pander to everyone and tell them it's ok to be a BIG P in your career and life. Thanks brother
My dude here’s the deal if you want to work year round make 120k a year exactly what they tell you might happen don’t take days off and Don’t ever turn down OT. I am a 20 year A card JW. Also those clowns who are telling you to turn down work are trying to fuck you over. You also need to ask yourself how many guys are around your union book looking for work before you start turning down work.
I feel you may be in the minority here. I'm leaning towards different strokes for different folks. I want to work and earn good money. But I do agree and what is the point if you work yourself to death. Like a lot of people have suggested I do believe it's about balance. I know you likely don't care. But I have a bit of a personal story to tell you. I love my grandpa. He was my fatherly figure growing up for majority of my life until I had the realization that I really didn't want to grow up and be like him. He is a high school dropout who who decided one day he didn't see the point of continuing School. So he signed himself up for the army and did two volunteer terms for Vietnam. He came home successfully twice. The first time he said he was a hero second time people were calling him a baby beaver. Cuz it was during the really big during the anti-war hippie movement. Friends and family that he knew growing up flat out abandoned him. He later went on to work for the government and he has been all around the world in countless top secret operations. I honestly don't know much about them other than he was on a naval ship. He came home. Quit the government jobs became a security guard didn't like it. I believe he worked for a mechanic Union for a little while. He is still drawing pension off his time there. Then he worked at a rock quarry for the rest of his career. He has roughly around a million dollars in his house any fireproof safe. Every month he is getting more money than last month from his old jobs. He's getting social security and payouts from multiple different pensions. He is effectively retired and he is miserable. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't have any hobbies. Most of his friends are dead. Family doesn't come visit. I'm no longer around to go talk to him everyday like I did growing up. And he never remarried after getting divorced. Effectively he best man that I know. I inspired to have a life like his and the retirement like his. But he is miserable. My entire life he has been a thread away from blowing up on you. The simplest mistake even from literal children. Would have him be thrown into a massive yelling match. When he asked you to do something he expects you to know how to do it regardless if you've never done it before. And when you have issues he would blow up on you. Do you know what he talks about now almost constantly. Killing himself. If I get sick and disabled I'm going to end my life. I don't want to be like your grandma. If I find out I have cancer I'm going to off myself. He is the manliest person I know. The most interesting. The most well-off. But he is riddled and crippled by anxiety and regret. He has panic attacks several times daily. But he refuses to seek help. He does not faith in doctors. And I think he is scared of unexpected bad news. He's told the doctor if I have something fatal don't tell me because the moment you tell me I'm going to kill myself. He talks about then when he's on anxiety medicine. He sees the faces of the people that he's killed in the corner of his eyes. He's told me that you would never forget what a person smells like burning or rotting. And that he's still smells it. Because when people got stuck in the barbed wire and die. You couldn't get them out without risking getting stuck in the barbed wire with them. So they often burn them so the smell would go away. This might be a little bit weird but I see and feel a resemblance in the people that I work with. They are just like my grandpa. The act the same. Same mannerisms. They get pissed and blow up on people at the most minor inconvenience. I don't want to be like that. I don't want to become burned out and become bitter and resentful. I also don't want to die or get someone killed trying to get to work. I may be projecting a bit. I might be biased. But there's always another job. If miss out on money now I think that I can make money later. I don't think there's a point in burning myself out, getting hurt, maybe even crippled, or worse dying trying to push through the 5 years to be a journeyman. I'm here to work and learn. Ape strong together. But it's weak divided. I will do my best to find that balance.
Nah man, fuck that. Talk to the training director or the project manager. Let them know that. Anyone that tries to feed you a story about their hours worked and commute to shame you, can fuck off. First years don’t make enough for that noise and they preach safety yet they’re putting you in a dangerous situation. If it’s a one week deal to finish a job, I could kinda see you wanting to push through, but if it’s not even a quarter finished, nah
Let the apprenticeship director know that the hours + commute are too much or move closer. You’re probably making pretty good money and unless you own the home you’re living at or on a lease I’d recommend moving closer. It’s hard to make it by early in the apprenticeship without oT
Find you a campground closer to the job. Set up a tent if you have too
Kinda late to this post, I was doing 7/12s for a month as a first year doing 2hrs plus of driving each day and it sucked. I just looked at the light at the end of the tunnel and being able to see the end got me through. However your case seems to.be a little different given your further driving (and possibly not knowing how long the overtime will last) will absolutely end in a bad way. Take everyone's advice here, and if you need to take a day don't feel bad about it. Some guys may give you shit but your quality of life matters way more.
Try and invest that gravy. You don’t have to work all 7 days and hours at the same speed One time I was out of the union and worked well over 70 Monday- Friday and drove 1200 miles. I got in Friday at 1am. It felt like I shaved off iq points. Couldn’t figure it out until I did my time sheet on Sunday. This was during the Great Recession and there was nothing for many months
Don’t be afraid to pull over. Find a truck stop or walmart parking lot or similar (or several) along your route, and pack a bag with spare clothes and toiletries. On the lineman side we keep a go bag in case we get mobilized for storm, but it’s good practice regardless. My first assignment as an ape was six hours away, eight if driving during the day. I didn’t have the option of commuting. At first I couldn’t afford any kind of housing, so i bought a hammock, and slept in a nearby state park. After a few weeks of that i made my car a little more livable, and slept at truck stops. Even today as a journeyman, with a truck and camper, and plenty of money for a hotel, you can still catch me snoozing in a walmart parking lot on some nights. It beats driving tired man, whatever you do, don’t do that.
Welcome to the work world.....
Prioritize your money- your working extra hours of OT- get a cheap hotel. Everything is negotiable. Negotiate with a hotel or rent a room and get your sleep. The stats on apprentices falling asleep at the wheel and dying is legit. Good luck.
Just miss enough days were they fire you
I didn’t get a chance to read all these comments they seem great so far. My local has a massive jurisdiction and sending apprentices to jobs 1-2 hrs away from home isn’t uncommon. Our school coordinator is highly aware of how difficult this is and actively tries to keep apprentices as close to home as he can but that doesn’t always work out. We don’t have a drive time pay or hotel coverage in our local either. Sometimes a contractor might pay for it but that’s uncommon. We actively encourage carpooling. I can’t stress enough how many peoples lives that’s probably saved. It saves on gas money and vehicle wear and tear. It also allows guys to get some power naps in. Plus if you’re ever falling asleep at the wheel you can just swap with another guy or have that guy keep you awake. It’s not ideal but it’s better than driving alone. Hell sometimes we even ride with the foremen in the company truck and save on the gas all around. Secondly as many have said sometimes you just gotta take some time off. Whether that be miss a day here or there (depending on your school’s absence policy) or you gotta turn down OT. I know you’re strapped for cash but dying or getting hurt is definitely not worth the OT. I’d just do 40 thru the week and catch the good money on the weekends. Your foreman won’t like it but fuck him. We always say that jobs are the edge of our jurisdiction have to be more relaxed because JW’s will just drag it. They’re driving that far to work when there are good jobs at home too. So it forces the foremen to be a bit nicer.
Quit, they are using you. You need to enjoy life man. That’s BS
It's not even worth working that much overtime. Your quality of life sucks and they take all your money away in taxes anyway.