"We’re also facing way more enemies in a much smaller area,” Col Banov said. “And these are military-graded terrorists."
Makes you want to ask 'who did your military think it would be fighting?'
It’s hard for them because IDF doctrine has them train on women, children, and unarmed protesters. They’re not used to people actually fighting back. In fact this entire generation of IDF has zero experience with urban combat and fighting a competent and motivated enemy. They’ve believed in their illusion of invincibility so much it’s a shock to them to actually have to struggle
They got their shit kicked in during the Lebanon Invasion of ‘06 by Hezbollah. Both Lebanon and Hezbollah have severely depleted militaries and Israel didn’t even come out ahead.
Couple of studies: Not CNN coverage etc.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/lessons-2006-israeli-hezbollah-war
Army university press produced this PDF below.
https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/combat-studies-institute/csi-books/we-were-caught-unprepared.pdf
If the goal was to destroy the civilian infrastructure...your opinion would be well warranted.
Hezbollah are not 10 feet tall. But helps to understand a bit better
They have also killed about 9000 terrorists in Gaza and have arrested or incapacitated just as many or slightly more. I think little over 200 IDF soldiers have died. Tunnel warfare notwithstanding, Hamas is really only winning in the court of public opinion.
Delusional to think Israel has been killing anyone except civilians. The resistance fighters aren’t waiting around in the refugee camps and hospitals Israel mass been bombing. The Israeli Occupation Forces are killing whoever they can and counting any male killed as a terrorist hit. Pathetic. By contrast, as seen by battlefield footage of fighting on the ground, the resistance is torching tanks and capping Israeli brass at will. The remaining hostages held by the resistance are almost entirely the former “Gaza Division” of the “IDF” that folded like a cheap suit on October 7. A complete embarrassment all around for one of the “most moral and powerful armies in the world”.
Not sure if they are winning the court of public opinion overall, but i do agree there are wayyyy too many useful idiots and bad actors supporting them.
Unreal how many 'progressives' spout terrorist talking points.
Yeah. I agree. Between Hamas getting ground to pieces and the whole blossiming UNRWA fiasco, it feels like a lot of people aren't as aggressively making their pro-Palestine stance as known as they were a few weeks ago. Maybe it's just my perception or news cycle burn out, I don't know.
Actually, since a week ago, we're MUCH more agressive and organized, and there's MANY more of us- and you can expect a lot more in both of those areas in the months to come as the people of Palestine begin to starve due to Israel's occupation and genocide of the Palestinian people. The whole world is turning against Israel for its crimes.
I think this point lends a lot of weight of much deeper American involvement in the war then US is admitting. They might heavily depend on US experience of urban fighting in Baghdad etc.
Disclaimer: I have almost zero experience so take this pinch of salt
This is something I've been wondering myself. The IDF had a serious reputation for competence at one stage but that facade has been completely obliterated during this campaign.
One of the most glaring things I noticed is the complete lack of preparedness for urban warfare and tunnel warfare. They basically created a Stalingrad type landscape to fight in with their bombing campaign and Hamas has been able to exploit that chaos. Not to mention the tunnels. Israel has known about the Hamas tunnel network for years, not to mention the even more extensive network Hezbollah has in southern Lebanon. So where's the elite tunnel warfare teams? They knew they would have to solve that riddle but they seem completely unprepared.
Hubris and supremacist thinking. A perfect combo for failure. It's pretty evident there was no plan but to make life so intolerable for the civilians of Gaza that Hamas would surrender. Which completely underestimates the fortitude of the Palestinian people and the lengths a force like Hamas will go to to protect the last scrap of their lands.
I mean, Israel relies on a conscript military to bulk out a specialist core. Just by knowing that you would expect they would have trouble doing technically complex missions on scale. Thier successes have come because the countries they have fought have had appallingly terrible militaries (for a variety of contested reasons). If you put a AA baseball team in a highschool league they are gonna clean house.
I'd say that is pretty accurate. They certainly have a technological edge that can appear at first glance to be a sign of competence. There's a whole military industrial complex in Israel built around their ability to test weapons, security and surveillance systems on a captive, occupied population. It seems their over reliance on tech has made them complacent though and it failed spectacularly on Oct 7. All the gizmos and gadgets are of little help when your troops are under prepared, poorly disciplined and more interested in making ticktock vids than doing their job.
The qualitative military edge is a US Congress mandated requirement written into law , incidentally.
Technology transfer, assistance etc for Iron Dome, David's sling etc are part of the same goal.
I am not sure if Taiwan/Ukraine gets anywhere close to the help.
It was. But I don't see what Hamas was hoping to do with it. From the amount of destruction Gaza has suffered so far it doesn't look like they really had a plan past October 7th.
It's a master plan if it works, but given the number of brutal genocides that the west has supported in the past I'm worried that the result will only be more death and oppression.
They have the exact same plan that Osama Bin Laden had when he lured the USA in to Iraq and Afghanistan. The costs to the USA turned out to be astronomical and destabilizing, and Al-Qaeda lives on.
They were expecting Hezbollah and other groups in the region to join in and destroy the state of Israel.
Their plan was scuttled by the US moving two strike carrier groups into the area.
So I actually have 2 thoughts about this.
I do think Hamas thought they were going to retaliate, but they probably didn't assume they'd retaliate to *this* extent. In my head, I feel like they assumed that Israel was going to put the hostages on a pedestal and possibly do the prisoner deal that Hamas seemed to have wanted, without reacting in an *extremely* extreme way.
I also think, knowing that Israel has a habit of "an eye for your entire existence", their goal may have been to also bring attention to Palestine, which, in a twisted-ish way, was *very* successful. Literally only 3-5 years ago, hell probably even just last year, you couldn't so much as mention Palestine publicly in a positive light, but now you've got millions of people calling out everything Israel *has* done wrong, which is a major shift from how it was before.
And honestly, a turn towards supporting Palestine/Gaza and in some cases, even Hamas would *never* have been possible if Israel took a second to think about what to do or laid out any ground rules for an offense, or even control what their own army and government say in public. But you've got IDF soldiers gleefully posting videos on social media of thrashing children's stationery stores, stealing money, makeup, and jewelry from people's homes, blowing up empty buildings with TNT, and the government attending "Settlement in Gaza conferences" while calling for destroying Gaza and everyone in it. And then the Israeli public has posted tiktoks mocking gazan people by dancing with black teeth and black eyes, or making fun of the fact that people in Gaza don't have water or food or electricity.
Like if there weren't so many people so proud of showing all that contempt they hold for Gazans, this probably wouldn't have been as successful of a shift, but ig it's helped to show a lot of people's true colors.
And of course it's not everyone in Israel. There's several groups within Israel calling for a ceasefire and an end to the idiocy of Netanyahu's policies and his government. But the ones with negative thoughts are so loud and proud and open about the hate that honestly, they've managed to destroy Israel's world reputation *very* fast.
I'm gonna be honest, I wouldn't be able to say. Someone from/in Israel or who's been keeping up with the media within the country might be more able to tell what the actuality of the situation there is.
There have been calls for the past couple of months though:
[Protest in Tel Aviv in November ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/dozens-gather-in-tel-aviv-for-anti-war-protest-calling-for-ceasefire/)
[Protest this month in Haifa](https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/1/20/refuse-to-fight-jewish-arab-activists-call-for-peace-in-israels-haifa)
[Another one in Tel Aviv this month as well](https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/israel-sees-biggest-ceasefire-protest-yet-as-public-opinion-begins-to-shift/)
I also trust that there's thousands of sensible people there, obviously you can't have an entire country that's rotten to the complete core. I just hope they're enough to overpower and somehow change the negativity that's so clearly prevalent in every facet of the Israeli state.
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They knew exactly what the situation was. This is why they bombed so hard. For Israel to take Gaza in any other way would have resulted in tens of thousands of IDF deaths. This is not a support of it, just a military reality.
Taking a series of fortified cities with 30 000 plus well armed and prepared enemies with fortified tunnel systems gives an overwhelming advantage to the defenders. Russia took 25k plus deaths and maybe 60k casualties in 6 months taking the small completely flattened city of Bhakmut and that was with a huge weapon and numbers advantage.
Not really. My point is that Hamas is better equipped and more committed to the fight than most of Israel's attackers, who had a passing interest in genocide but quickly lost interest once the corpses started stacking up
>Israel occupied Lebanon for decades
From Wikipedia:
"While the IDF oversaw the region's general security, the SLA managed most of the occupied territory's ground affairs, including the operation of the Khiam detention centre."
>has fought multiple sustained wars with both Hamas and Hezbollah since.
The 2014 war was a little over a month and mostly airstrikes. The 2008 war was 3 weeks. Hardly "sustained".
> Hamas is "better equipped"
They are using military equipment that is 50 years out of date, pickup trucks, motor cycles, and para-gliders.
Israel thinks it is unfair that the people they are murdering have access to anything military grade.
>They are using military equipment that is 50 years out of date, pickup trucks, motor cycles, and para-gliders.
They're not using the gliders anymore. But you really don't need much more than this for urban fighting. Armor isn't particularly valuable in urban environments
> But you really don't need much more than this for urban fighting.
Are you insane?
Israel has obliterated most of Gaza with 155mm shells and up to 2,000 lb. bombs.
Israel does not fight with just AK-47s and IEDs built in tunnels.
To quote the Zionists when we talk about the 10000 children dead and children having limbs amputated without anesthetic, "that's what happens in war"
Since they're incredibly heartless about those children they won't care about these IDF soldiers I'm sure
Hamas decided to use the hospitals as military bases.. maybe don’t viciously start a war with your strong neighbor and then hide where these kids get treatment?
You can't possibly be blaming the rash actions of a few, on the 2 million that reside in Gaza, half of whom are children? Nowhere in my comment did I mention Hamas
Also while it may or may not be true that hospitals were used as military bases, why did the IDF have to specifically take out the anaesthesia from the aid the Gazans were receiving? That's just cruelty on another level, especially since many kids died because they couldn't handle the pain while getting amputated without anaesthesia. Their deaths are on the hands of the IDF, many of thousands
They’ve also blocked insulin. As a type 1 diabetic, id literally just commit suicide if I couldn’t get insulin. Far better than the slow and agonising death by ketone acidosis.
The depravity and sadism knows no bounds.
Which military barracks do you think they should be stationed in?
Maybe the West can provide Hamas with 10s of billions of dollars to build a modern army that kills people without needing to see them.
Don't ethnically cleanse and genocide a people and expect one drop of sympathy from outsiders.
Israel released a report the other day that some of Hamas weapons are repurposed Israeli munitions that didn't explode. So they are getting killed by their own weapons
Was the initial comment that the *majority* of Hamas explosives are repurposed from Israeli munitions?
The commenter he hidden his edit, I’m interested to see what the initial claim that was upvoted.
But that in itself is a good point right. The 15% is unexploded ammo.
How much ammo is being tossed that the unexploded portion is 15% of Hamas weapons ..and that is causing even any damage
I am guessing the failure rates are in the single digits. Even low single digits.
No one feels bad for Russian invaders who got grenades dropped on them from drones while they illegally and offensively occupied Ukraine. The “mititary grade” rounds are oftentimes left over unexploded rounds *from Israel supplied by the US*. Maybe they should stop ethnically cleansing the area if they want to protect themselves
Well we’ve kinda been in a Cold War with Russia since ww2 and Israel is a military ally how hard is it comprehend that when your own guys die it’s poopy
Yeah because a free democratic government definitely uses mroe propaganda than governments literally known for their censorship and interference in foreign countries lmao
West > authoritarians shitholes like Iran, Russia, China
>free democratic government definitely uses mroe propaganda
First, how is Israel a "free democratic government"? Even Palestinians living in Israel are [barred from living in 68% of towns and cities.](https://imgur.com/w5Y7Aue)
>interference in foreign countries lmao
AIPAC
>West > authoritarians shitholes like Iran, Russia, China
Are you seriously trying to act like the west isn't authoritarian?
Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens. They have their own government, elections, judges, jails…
Why would citizens of one country be allowed free passage into another?
Are you seriously trying to pretend that
1. China, a place where you literally cannot use the Internet without risk of being imprisoned for mentioning Winnie the Pooh,
2. Russia, a country notorious for a president who routinely murders his political opposition
3. Iran, a country notorious for murdering hundreds of protestors fighting for women’s rights
are in any way less authoritarian than the West?
What a joke lmao
>Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens.
So the 1.6 million Palestinians living inside Israel proper aren't Israeli citizens? That's just patently false, as a single Google search would show you.
>Why would citizens of one country be allowed free passage into another?
What country are you talking about? Forget the fact that I'm talking about the Palestinians that live within Israel's official borders, what country do you think Palestinians are from? Gaza and the West Bank are both parts of Israel (for now).
>Are you seriously trying to pretend that China, Russia, & Iran are in any way less authoritarian than the West?
No. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Also, why are you acting like the terrible things western countries do are ok because some other countries are "more authoritarian"? Neither China or the US treat their citizens how they should.
No Google search says Palestinins are Israeli citizens. That has never been the case.
Palestine is an occupied territory. They are a distinct non-Israeli administrative region.
US doesn’t treat it’s citizens as an authoritarian country would, as you imply. Just correcting you since you are wrong.
>No Google search says Palestinins are Israeli citizens. That has never been the case.
Are you trying to not understand? The Arab Palestinians that are living within the borders of Israel. Not Gaza, not West Bank. The Palestinians that live and were born inside Israel are obviously Israeli citizens.
>US doesn’t treat it’s citizens as an authoritarian country would, as you imply. Just correcting you since you are wrong.
You talk so much about propaganda and yet you still believe this lmao. Good job drinking the Kool-Aid.
If you’re referring to Arab Israelis that are citizens… what is your point? They are Israeli citizens who live within Israel and not the Palestinian West Bank. Unrelated population.
Lmao yeah that’s why there’s so much emigration out of China/Russia/Iran. Because they’re jUsT aS BaD as the West.
It is an occupied territory. You are correct about that.
Except , they are not exactly non-israeli administrative region. Eg. The Palestinian registry (people born, dead etc) is managed by Israel
There are different regions even in the west bank.. (area A/B/C) etc . Not sure if you are young and hadn't heard about the oslo accord regions etc ...or are just someone repeating what you heard.
A significant portion of hamas weapons come from unexploded israeli ordnance and from unguarded Israeli supply:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/much-of-hamas-explosives-comes-from-idf-fire-that-failed-to-detonate-report/
If you don't know how to bypass a paywall in 2024 you shouldnt expect to be taken seriously
https://archive.is/20240130184044/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html
While I also have no sympathy, conscription is mandatory in Israel. So it’s super impressive that a few young people there have been jailed refusing to participate in this genocide.
It's military grade since a large amount of hamas' ordnance is unexploded Israeli stuff, so it's having the same effect on IDF troops as Israeli munitions are on children, only the kids don't get body armour and high quality healthcare
They were setting up for a controlled demolition. Hamas triggered a larger conflagration by hitting a tank (iirc) that was close. The controlled demolition..started a little earlier?
When you’re an army and you cry because your opposition is using “military grade rounds” you expose yourself for diaper wearing child killers you are. Thought they’d just be slaughtering more kids throwing rocks like usual eh?
Not many "wars" where you can literally drive away from the front and your "enemy" stays trapped behind a fence, largely unarmed, and now starving.
Calling this a war doesn't fit, frankly. This is something else, even worse.
The consequences of ethnic cleansing. Maybe now they will see the damage they have done to others. Fuck these guys, the less of them the better for humanity
Good. They deserve it for killing thousands of children.
I've seen babies being pulled out of the rubble and parents holding their dead toddlers.
These savages deserve worse
If it is true, it is not anti-anything. It is just true. You have been trained to disbelieve the facts in front of your eyes:
Because Zionists, both Christian and Jewish, Democrat and Republicans, exert massive influence upon the US Government.
The Leader of the USA, POTUS (ZOTUS?) is a confirmed, proud Zionist.
The Secretary of State, Blinken, is a Zionist.
The leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, is a very vocal Zionist.
The leader of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson, recently received an award from The Zionists of America as a "Defender of Israel."
Nancy Pelosi, the ex-leader of the house of Representatives says if an American does not support Israel, they must be a Russian stooge.
50% of political donations to the Democrat party (at least as of 2016), come from American Jews, who typically support Israel.
This is why the US, and its taxpayers who fund it, are intentionally starving millions of civilians in Gaza and trying to get the world to join in.
Honestly this threat makes me happy. No sympathy for Israeli lives makes it easier for me to swallow everyone dying in Gaza. At least everyone’s an asshole here.
This also happened in Vietnam. Increasing effectiveness of battlefield medics casevac are letting the gravely wounded survive that in past decades would have died.
Nothing new .
I feel sad because these soldiers who are getting hurt are just brainwashed kids (18-24) years old who are fighting to satisfy the agenda of the terrorist Netanyahu. Meanwhile Netanyahu’s son was chilling in Miami. Violence creates more violence and the solution to this conflict is peace not war
You feel sad for the soldiers who are slaughtering innocent Palestinian civilians? The kids they are murdering are the actual kids, not adults with guns like the IDF.
On the other hand, the fewer the soldiers and the fewer Palestinians (who have done literally nothing and are forced into a life of misery and violence) get killed.
I really enjoy coming to this sub every so often so I can see the latest in conspiracy theories from misguided terrorist sympathizers. This comments section is wild!
Lol this sub is a cesspool for terrorist propaganda. Yall are pathetic.
Hamas is a bunch of trash terrorist criminals not worth the water to spit on their graves. They can't handle how their extremist philosophy has gained them nothing but their own deaths.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
It's outrageous Hamas is using military-grade explosives to blow up IDF troops.
Using military-grade explosives to blow up IDF troops is the sole copyright and intellectual property of the IDF.
Someone call Dershowitz!
"We’re also facing way more enemies in a much smaller area,” Col Banov said. “And these are military-graded terrorists." Makes you want to ask 'who did your military think it would be fighting?'
12 year olds throwing stones in the West Bank.
I think that's what they are used to
Also people with white flags. May or may not be Isrealis, hard to tell.
It’s hard for them because IDF doctrine has them train on women, children, and unarmed protesters. They’re not used to people actually fighting back. In fact this entire generation of IDF has zero experience with urban combat and fighting a competent and motivated enemy. They’ve believed in their illusion of invincibility so much it’s a shock to them to actually have to struggle
They got their shit kicked in during the Lebanon Invasion of ‘06 by Hezbollah. Both Lebanon and Hezbollah have severely depleted militaries and Israel didn’t even come out ahead.
I think the Lebanese citizens would disagree with your assessment.
Couple of studies: Not CNN coverage etc. https://www.csis.org/analysis/lessons-2006-israeli-hezbollah-war Army university press produced this PDF below. https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/combat-studies-institute/csi-books/we-were-caught-unprepared.pdf If the goal was to destroy the civilian infrastructure...your opinion would be well warranted. Hezbollah are not 10 feet tall. But helps to understand a bit better
Lmao you must be joking
Israel Lebanon war of 2006 121 Israelis died. 600 hezbollah. Oh yahhh, really got their shit kicked in.
They have also killed about 9000 terrorists in Gaza and have arrested or incapacitated just as many or slightly more. I think little over 200 IDF soldiers have died. Tunnel warfare notwithstanding, Hamas is really only winning in the court of public opinion.
Delusional to think Israel has been killing anyone except civilians. The resistance fighters aren’t waiting around in the refugee camps and hospitals Israel mass been bombing. The Israeli Occupation Forces are killing whoever they can and counting any male killed as a terrorist hit. Pathetic. By contrast, as seen by battlefield footage of fighting on the ground, the resistance is torching tanks and capping Israeli brass at will. The remaining hostages held by the resistance are almost entirely the former “Gaza Division” of the “IDF” that folded like a cheap suit on October 7. A complete embarrassment all around for one of the “most moral and powerful armies in the world”.
Lol, of course they have. What you mean us they have killed 9000 males, a small percentage of which were probably hamas.
Please cite a legitimate source for 9000 terrorist being killed in Gaza.
Not sure if they are winning the court of public opinion overall, but i do agree there are wayyyy too many useful idiots and bad actors supporting them. Unreal how many 'progressives' spout terrorist talking points.
Almost like the IRA were successful or something...
Yeah. I agree. Between Hamas getting ground to pieces and the whole blossiming UNRWA fiasco, it feels like a lot of people aren't as aggressively making their pro-Palestine stance as known as they were a few weeks ago. Maybe it's just my perception or news cycle burn out, I don't know.
Actually, since a week ago, we're MUCH more agressive and organized, and there's MANY more of us- and you can expect a lot more in both of those areas in the months to come as the people of Palestine begin to starve due to Israel's occupation and genocide of the Palestinian people. The whole world is turning against Israel for its crimes.
These numbers where 9000 heroes have been taken out of the fighting and where 200 IDF terrorists have been killed, I’m assuming is an Israeli source?
Israel was too focused on targeting civilians to actually defeat a near peer opponent
I think this point lends a lot of weight of much deeper American involvement in the war then US is admitting. They might heavily depend on US experience of urban fighting in Baghdad etc. Disclaimer: I have almost zero experience so take this pinch of salt
Well they prefer women and children if we are basing it strictly off of numbers
This is something I've been wondering myself. The IDF had a serious reputation for competence at one stage but that facade has been completely obliterated during this campaign. One of the most glaring things I noticed is the complete lack of preparedness for urban warfare and tunnel warfare. They basically created a Stalingrad type landscape to fight in with their bombing campaign and Hamas has been able to exploit that chaos. Not to mention the tunnels. Israel has known about the Hamas tunnel network for years, not to mention the even more extensive network Hezbollah has in southern Lebanon. So where's the elite tunnel warfare teams? They knew they would have to solve that riddle but they seem completely unprepared. Hubris and supremacist thinking. A perfect combo for failure. It's pretty evident there was no plan but to make life so intolerable for the civilians of Gaza that Hamas would surrender. Which completely underestimates the fortitude of the Palestinian people and the lengths a force like Hamas will go to to protect the last scrap of their lands.
I mean, Israel relies on a conscript military to bulk out a specialist core. Just by knowing that you would expect they would have trouble doing technically complex missions on scale. Thier successes have come because the countries they have fought have had appallingly terrible militaries (for a variety of contested reasons). If you put a AA baseball team in a highschool league they are gonna clean house.
I'd say that is pretty accurate. They certainly have a technological edge that can appear at first glance to be a sign of competence. There's a whole military industrial complex in Israel built around their ability to test weapons, security and surveillance systems on a captive, occupied population. It seems their over reliance on tech has made them complacent though and it failed spectacularly on Oct 7. All the gizmos and gadgets are of little help when your troops are under prepared, poorly disciplined and more interested in making ticktock vids than doing their job.
The qualitative military edge is a US Congress mandated requirement written into law , incidentally. Technology transfer, assistance etc for Iron Dome, David's sling etc are part of the same goal. I am not sure if Taiwan/Ukraine gets anywhere close to the help.
Well said
Part of the myth of the Israeli soldier has been built up by Hollywood, you'll notice Krav Maga being hyped up as an elite fighting style
That’s what happens when you dehumanize people: You Underestimate your opponent
Kids with rocks
They still don't realize that Hamas was baiting them in
Much as I'd love for the IDF to get wrecked this doesn't seem to match reality in any way.
You don't think Israel's reaction of bombing/invading was easily predictable?
It was. But I don't see what Hamas was hoping to do with it. From the amount of destruction Gaza has suffered so far it doesn't look like they really had a plan past October 7th.
This is the first time in a long time that states are calling for a palestinian state. That's what the point was.
It's a master plan if it works, but given the number of brutal genocides that the west has supported in the past I'm worried that the result will only be more death and oppression.
They got exactly what they wanted. A freeze between a thawing in Saudi Israeli relations and a unstable middle east.
They have the exact same plan that Osama Bin Laden had when he lured the USA in to Iraq and Afghanistan. The costs to the USA turned out to be astronomical and destabilizing, and Al-Qaeda lives on.
America and its allies lied their way in to Iraq and have been admitting to it for a decade now
And it's repeating itself with their claims of Iran "directing" attacks while offering zero evidence
They were expecting Hezbollah and other groups in the region to join in and destroy the state of Israel. Their plan was scuttled by the US moving two strike carrier groups into the area.
So I actually have 2 thoughts about this. I do think Hamas thought they were going to retaliate, but they probably didn't assume they'd retaliate to *this* extent. In my head, I feel like they assumed that Israel was going to put the hostages on a pedestal and possibly do the prisoner deal that Hamas seemed to have wanted, without reacting in an *extremely* extreme way. I also think, knowing that Israel has a habit of "an eye for your entire existence", their goal may have been to also bring attention to Palestine, which, in a twisted-ish way, was *very* successful. Literally only 3-5 years ago, hell probably even just last year, you couldn't so much as mention Palestine publicly in a positive light, but now you've got millions of people calling out everything Israel *has* done wrong, which is a major shift from how it was before. And honestly, a turn towards supporting Palestine/Gaza and in some cases, even Hamas would *never* have been possible if Israel took a second to think about what to do or laid out any ground rules for an offense, or even control what their own army and government say in public. But you've got IDF soldiers gleefully posting videos on social media of thrashing children's stationery stores, stealing money, makeup, and jewelry from people's homes, blowing up empty buildings with TNT, and the government attending "Settlement in Gaza conferences" while calling for destroying Gaza and everyone in it. And then the Israeli public has posted tiktoks mocking gazan people by dancing with black teeth and black eyes, or making fun of the fact that people in Gaza don't have water or food or electricity. Like if there weren't so many people so proud of showing all that contempt they hold for Gazans, this probably wouldn't have been as successful of a shift, but ig it's helped to show a lot of people's true colors. And of course it's not everyone in Israel. There's several groups within Israel calling for a ceasefire and an end to the idiocy of Netanyahu's policies and his government. But the ones with negative thoughts are so loud and proud and open about the hate that honestly, they've managed to destroy Israel's world reputation *very* fast.
Nuanced view. What percent of Israeli public do you think is calling for a ceasefire?
I'm gonna be honest, I wouldn't be able to say. Someone from/in Israel or who's been keeping up with the media within the country might be more able to tell what the actuality of the situation there is. There have been calls for the past couple of months though: [Protest in Tel Aviv in November ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/dozens-gather-in-tel-aviv-for-anti-war-protest-calling-for-ceasefire/) [Protest this month in Haifa](https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/1/20/refuse-to-fight-jewish-arab-activists-call-for-peace-in-israels-haifa) [Another one in Tel Aviv this month as well](https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/israel-sees-biggest-ceasefire-protest-yet-as-public-opinion-begins-to-shift/) I also trust that there's thousands of sensible people there, obviously you can't have an entire country that's rotten to the complete core. I just hope they're enough to overpower and somehow change the negativity that's so clearly prevalent in every facet of the Israeli state.
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They knew exactly what the situation was. This is why they bombed so hard. For Israel to take Gaza in any other way would have resulted in tens of thousands of IDF deaths. This is not a support of it, just a military reality. Taking a series of fortified cities with 30 000 plus well armed and prepared enemies with fortified tunnel systems gives an overwhelming advantage to the defenders. Russia took 25k plus deaths and maybe 60k casualties in 6 months taking the small completely flattened city of Bhakmut and that was with a huge weapon and numbers advantage.
I dunno, the Egyptians and Syrians are hardly military grade.
It's been like 50 years since the Israeli Army faced the Egyptians or Syrians in a real way. It doesn't seem relevant to the current state of the IDF
It's been over 50 years since fighting a properly equipped and committed enemy is what you're saying
That kinda undercuts your first comment doesn't it?
Not really. My point is that Hamas is better equipped and more committed to the fight than most of Israel's attackers, who had a passing interest in genocide but quickly lost interest once the corpses started stacking up
But they have been fighting Hamas and Hezbollah for decades. So you don't seem to have a consistent point.
Not really. Not in a sustained conflict like this.
Israel occupied Lebanon for decades and has fought multiple sustained wars with both Hamas and Hezbollah since.
>Israel occupied Lebanon for decades From Wikipedia: "While the IDF oversaw the region's general security, the SLA managed most of the occupied territory's ground affairs, including the operation of the Khiam detention centre." >has fought multiple sustained wars with both Hamas and Hezbollah since. The 2014 war was a little over a month and mostly airstrikes. The 2008 war was 3 weeks. Hardly "sustained".
> Hamas is "better equipped" They are using military equipment that is 50 years out of date, pickup trucks, motor cycles, and para-gliders. Israel thinks it is unfair that the people they are murdering have access to anything military grade.
>They are using military equipment that is 50 years out of date, pickup trucks, motor cycles, and para-gliders. They're not using the gliders anymore. But you really don't need much more than this for urban fighting. Armor isn't particularly valuable in urban environments
> But you really don't need much more than this for urban fighting. Are you insane? Israel has obliterated most of Gaza with 155mm shells and up to 2,000 lb. bombs. Israel does not fight with just AK-47s and IEDs built in tunnels.
Exactly. 155mm shells which apparently the Ukrainians were begging for and were told."no more" .
Where would Hamas be setting up artillery or an air force in Gaza that wouldn't be an immediate target for SEAD counterbattery fire?
Suspect tanks and ability to call in airstrikes helps a bit? And being able to get to a hospital?
In a defensive urban war? Not really
They don't have tanks, F35s, ... Also the bible says David used a stone and a sling. We expected them to ....
To quote the Zionists when we talk about the 10000 children dead and children having limbs amputated without anesthetic, "that's what happens in war" Since they're incredibly heartless about those children they won't care about these IDF soldiers I'm sure
That and they say "FAFO" when it comes to kids getting killed by the IDF.
War is war. At least they have hospitals to go to. Can't say the same for the many child amputees in Gaza
Hamas decided to use the hospitals as military bases.. maybe don’t viciously start a war with your strong neighbor and then hide where these kids get treatment?
I love colonial settler logic, sprinkle in religious extremism and you have ✨ethnic cleansing✨ blamed on the resistance and the oppressed.
"Look what you made us do"
Same thing hitler said to the jews. Literally.
Indeed. Even though half our cabinet has been wanting to do this for decades
You can't possibly be blaming the rash actions of a few, on the 2 million that reside in Gaza, half of whom are children? Nowhere in my comment did I mention Hamas Also while it may or may not be true that hospitals were used as military bases, why did the IDF have to specifically take out the anaesthesia from the aid the Gazans were receiving? That's just cruelty on another level, especially since many kids died because they couldn't handle the pain while getting amputated without anaesthesia. Their deaths are on the hands of the IDF, many of thousands
They’ve also blocked insulin. As a type 1 diabetic, id literally just commit suicide if I couldn’t get insulin. Far better than the slow and agonising death by ketone acidosis. The depravity and sadism knows no bounds.
Yes, I was absolutely furious when I heard that since I've been a type 1 diabetic for a decade now too, and its horrible when you can't get insulin
In other news, if you are in Toronto Wednesday 31 January, Yuk Yuks is hosting a stand up for Israel night, where proceeds will go to friends of IOF.
Thanks for making sure I'll never go there
Fundraising for genocide when theyre already being funneled everything they need from the west is peak bootlicking
Let them, if the case is confirmed, to be a genocide by the ICJ, they have put themselves in precarious position.
They don't need the money. This is more a propaganda war and also to convince the supporters to stay revved up, push their representatives , etc etc
?
That must be why IDF soldiers laughed about there being no more schools for Palestinian kids.
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And when they destroyed shops for the fun of it.
Repeating that lie over and over doesn’t make it true. 🤣
Oh it’s 100% true lmao
Except it’s not.
😂
Which military barracks do you think they should be stationed in? Maybe the West can provide Hamas with 10s of billions of dollars to build a modern army that kills people without needing to see them. Don't ethnically cleanse and genocide a people and expect one drop of sympathy from outsiders.
Good thing the innocent children caught in the crossfire voted for Hamas, making their senseless murders justified...
I know, it’s really sad
How would you want Hamas to wage a legitimate war of resistance against Israel. Explain the logistics to all of us, please.
Israel released a report the other day that some of Hamas weapons are repurposed Israeli munitions that didn't explode. So they are getting killed by their own weapons
The report said “up to 15%”
Ah so it did. Fixed.
Was the initial comment that the *majority* of Hamas explosives are repurposed from Israeli munitions? The commenter he hidden his edit, I’m interested to see what the initial claim that was upvoted.
Yeah but he acknowledged and corrected it.
But that in itself is a good point right. The 15% is unexploded ammo. How much ammo is being tossed that the unexploded portion is 15% of Hamas weapons ..and that is causing even any damage I am guessing the failure rates are in the single digits. Even low single digits.
No one feels bad for Russian invaders who got grenades dropped on them from drones while they illegally and offensively occupied Ukraine. The “mititary grade” rounds are oftentimes left over unexploded rounds *from Israel supplied by the US*. Maybe they should stop ethnically cleansing the area if they want to protect themselves
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Gladly. Orcs has been repurposed to be used only for Tolkien works and IOF
And you will be banned as an outrageous anti semite. Seems unfair.
I got temp banned for saying if you're part of one of the most well equipped armies and you get killed by handmade weapons it's on you, lol
Well we’ve kinda been in a Cold War with Russia since ww2 and Israel is a military ally how hard is it comprehend that when your own guys die it’s poopy
Ziorcs
We’re just making shit up, huh?
Cope
Explosives hamas makes from discarded israeli ordnance. Rekt.
lmao what discarded israeli ordnance? Is this the new propaganda line? Boring.
How ironic is this lmao; an Isn'trael supporter trying to talk about propaganda
Yeah because a free democratic government definitely uses mroe propaganda than governments literally known for their censorship and interference in foreign countries lmao West > authoritarians shitholes like Iran, Russia, China
>free democratic government definitely uses mroe propaganda First, how is Israel a "free democratic government"? Even Palestinians living in Israel are [barred from living in 68% of towns and cities.](https://imgur.com/w5Y7Aue) >interference in foreign countries lmao AIPAC >West > authoritarians shitholes like Iran, Russia, China Are you seriously trying to act like the west isn't authoritarian?
Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens. They have their own government, elections, judges, jails… Why would citizens of one country be allowed free passage into another? Are you seriously trying to pretend that 1. China, a place where you literally cannot use the Internet without risk of being imprisoned for mentioning Winnie the Pooh, 2. Russia, a country notorious for a president who routinely murders his political opposition 3. Iran, a country notorious for murdering hundreds of protestors fighting for women’s rights are in any way less authoritarian than the West? What a joke lmao
>Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens. So the 1.6 million Palestinians living inside Israel proper aren't Israeli citizens? That's just patently false, as a single Google search would show you. >Why would citizens of one country be allowed free passage into another? What country are you talking about? Forget the fact that I'm talking about the Palestinians that live within Israel's official borders, what country do you think Palestinians are from? Gaza and the West Bank are both parts of Israel (for now). >Are you seriously trying to pretend that China, Russia, & Iran are in any way less authoritarian than the West? No. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Also, why are you acting like the terrible things western countries do are ok because some other countries are "more authoritarian"? Neither China or the US treat their citizens how they should.
No Google search says Palestinins are Israeli citizens. That has never been the case. Palestine is an occupied territory. They are a distinct non-Israeli administrative region. US doesn’t treat it’s citizens as an authoritarian country would, as you imply. Just correcting you since you are wrong.
>No Google search says Palestinins are Israeli citizens. That has never been the case. Are you trying to not understand? The Arab Palestinians that are living within the borders of Israel. Not Gaza, not West Bank. The Palestinians that live and were born inside Israel are obviously Israeli citizens. >US doesn’t treat it’s citizens as an authoritarian country would, as you imply. Just correcting you since you are wrong. You talk so much about propaganda and yet you still believe this lmao. Good job drinking the Kool-Aid.
If you’re referring to Arab Israelis that are citizens… what is your point? They are Israeli citizens who live within Israel and not the Palestinian West Bank. Unrelated population. Lmao yeah that’s why there’s so much emigration out of China/Russia/Iran. Because they’re jUsT aS BaD as the West.
It is an occupied territory. You are correct about that. Except , they are not exactly non-israeli administrative region. Eg. The Palestinian registry (people born, dead etc) is managed by Israel There are different regions even in the west bank.. (area A/B/C) etc . Not sure if you are young and hadn't heard about the oslo accord regions etc ...or are just someone repeating what you heard.
A significant portion of hamas weapons come from unexploded israeli ordnance and from unguarded Israeli supply: https://www.timesofisrael.com/much-of-hamas-explosives-comes-from-idf-fire-that-failed-to-detonate-report/
Your article cites another article as source which is paywalled.
If you don't know how to bypass a paywall in 2024 you shouldnt expect to be taken seriously https://archive.is/20240130184044/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html
They volunteered to fight so I've no sympathy for them
While I also have no sympathy, conscription is mandatory in Israel. So it’s super impressive that a few young people there have been jailed refusing to participate in this genocide.
They have mandatory service in Israel much like other small nations surrounded by hostile actors do (eg. Taiwan and Singapore)
Fuck them.. Genocidal fucks.. they’ve lost my sympathy with their lack of humanity
Oh no they're defending themselves somehow!!!!
Classic. Is this supposed to make the readers sympathize with Israeli soldiers?
It's military grade since a large amount of hamas' ordnance is unexploded Israeli stuff, so it's having the same effect on IDF troops as Israeli munitions are on children, only the kids don't get body armour and high quality healthcare
I was literally thinking this. IOF are simultaneously pathetic babies and baby killers.
WOW - Attention Hamas, if you could just not fight back while we are gunning you down and starving you out, that would be just great.
Attention Hamas: If you rape and pillage your much stronger neighbors they will come after your military bases, anywhere they are
Oppressors, not neighbors.
Attention Hamas: we will throw unsubstantiated claims all the live long day if you don't back off while we do exactly what we claim you're doing. FTFY
Israel is a neighbor to the inmates of Gaza as the Germans were neighbors to the inmates of the Warsaw Ghetto.
Aw, does resistance to the occupying force make the occupiers feel sad? Boo hoo, IOF ghouls.
Fuck around and find out
GOOD
Well if it’s the consequences of your own actions…genocidal fucks
fuck them lets see what happens when the money run out
US will go broke?
Losing limbs? Karma for all the limbs lost by Palestinians over the years from IOF shooting them in the legs just for fun.
Didn't they literally blow up a bunch of their own people recently trying to do controlled demolitions? Skill issue.
They were setting up for a controlled demolition. Hamas triggered a larger conflagration by hitting a tank (iirc) that was close. The controlled demolition..started a little earlier?
Iof soldiers when the military grade weapons injure them and not a palestinian child:
Cry me a river.
Karma is a bitch, aint it?
>“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” Matthew 26:52
When you’re an army and you cry because your opposition is using “military grade rounds” you expose yourself for diaper wearing child killers you are. Thought they’d just be slaughtering more kids throwing rocks like usual eh?
Then stop the genocide and withdraw there u go. What kind of injuries are the innocent children of Gaza sustaining?
Well...they murdered 10,000 children, so I will save my sympathy.
Extremely based
Not many "wars" where you can literally drive away from the front and your "enemy" stays trapped behind a fence, largely unarmed, and now starving. Calling this a war doesn't fit, frankly. This is something else, even worse.
The term "genocide" has been thrown around a few times. Might be a good one to use.
The consequences of ethnic cleansing. Maybe now they will see the damage they have done to others. Fuck these guys, the less of them the better for humanity
Hey - that's what happens in war - it's nothing less than these modern day Nazis and baby killers deserve
Good. They deserve it for killing thousands of children. I've seen babies being pulled out of the rubble and parents holding their dead toddlers. These savages deserve worse
Good.
It's war. Isn't that right, Israel????
I hope every IDF soldier comes back too fucked up for a normal life. It’s what they deserve.
Jesus... Poor genocidal army! Awwwe.
Clearly not enough to deter them.
Aren't something like half of all IDF casualties due to friendly fire? Teach them which end of the gun to point at the enemy and they should be fine.
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Israel is very hateable indeed.
70 years of murderous ethnic cleansing, manipulation of the US government, and generally behaving like selfish d-heads about everything.
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If it is true, it is not anti-anything. It is just true. You have been trained to disbelieve the facts in front of your eyes: Because Zionists, both Christian and Jewish, Democrat and Republicans, exert massive influence upon the US Government. The Leader of the USA, POTUS (ZOTUS?) is a confirmed, proud Zionist. The Secretary of State, Blinken, is a Zionist. The leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, is a very vocal Zionist. The leader of the House of Representatives, Mike Johnson, recently received an award from The Zionists of America as a "Defender of Israel." Nancy Pelosi, the ex-leader of the house of Representatives says if an American does not support Israel, they must be a Russian stooge. 50% of political donations to the Democrat party (at least as of 2016), come from American Jews, who typically support Israel. This is why the US, and its taxpayers who fund it, are intentionally starving millions of civilians in Gaza and trying to get the world to join in.
Honestly this threat makes me happy. No sympathy for Israeli lives makes it easier for me to swallow everyone dying in Gaza. At least everyone’s an asshole here.
This also happened in Vietnam. Increasing effectiveness of battlefield medics casevac are letting the gravely wounded survive that in past decades would have died. Nothing new .
I feel sad because these soldiers who are getting hurt are just brainwashed kids (18-24) years old who are fighting to satisfy the agenda of the terrorist Netanyahu. Meanwhile Netanyahu’s son was chilling in Miami. Violence creates more violence and the solution to this conflict is peace not war
You feel sad for the soldiers who are slaughtering innocent Palestinian civilians? The kids they are murdering are the actual kids, not adults with guns like the IDF.
On the other hand, the fewer the soldiers and the fewer Palestinians (who have done literally nothing and are forced into a life of misery and violence) get killed.
Fuck em
I really enjoy coming to this sub every so often so I can see the latest in conspiracy theories from misguided terrorist sympathizers. This comments section is wild!
We don't sympathize with IDF terrorists, wrong sub mate
Yeah haven't been here in ages it's crazy how many terrorist sympathizers there are here.
Lol this sub is a cesspool for terrorist propaganda. Yall are pathetic. Hamas is a bunch of trash terrorist criminals not worth the water to spit on their graves. They can't handle how their extremist philosophy has gained them nothing but their own deaths. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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--- #Rule 1: Be civil Be civil; no personal insults. ---
The real terrorists are the IDF.
waaaaaahhhh boooo-hoooooo
I’m glad that that’s happening to them
No sympathy, it's their comeuppance for slaughtering people and stealing their land.
It's outrageous Hamas is using military-grade explosives to blow up IDF troops. Using military-grade explosives to blow up IDF troops is the sole copyright and intellectual property of the IDF. Someone call Dershowitz!