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I thought this was going to say “Madeleine” because I LOVED her & she is very much better than book-Madeleine… which will also make her more tragic all too soon 😭.
I think the trial being public & a theatre show is really interesting & fabulous in theory, but I can’t exactly comment on how I feel about it as a change I have experienced…. seeing as we literally haven’t seen or experienced it yet! 😂😅
I was very excited when I first saw the posters implying this change though!!!
On one hand, yes, Madeleine's character is way more developed on the show, and we get more time to grow attached to her. In the book, she's essentially a footnote. On the other, she and her relationship with Claudia are so different in the two versions, it's hard to even compare.
Well it’s good her character on the show is better because book Claudia *needs* her, whereas it’s very different on the show. In fact I really don’t understand at all as yet why Armand wants Claudia dead so badly on the show. There’s no logic to it to me. And it should be that he wants that, right. I understand why Santiago wants it! At least partially… (partially not as he seems to like Claudia in many ways) but I don’t understand - Claudia & Madeleine were about to be off; no bother to anyone & Louis even said he felt nothing when Claudia left AND that they didn’t part on great terms. I don’t get it.
Tbh my read as someone who has not read the book is that Armand realised Claudia and Louis would always be companions. He has given everything up to be with Louis, his coven his position of powers heck his own sense of free will in a way with their all dom/sub dynamic. But there is Louis who still has Claudia and also Lestat (I refuse for a second to believe that The company was able to pull all that shit below his nose he absolutely let it happen).
But imagine if you will a way for him to isolate Louis to make sure that he loses the two people he loves the most. Claudia due to being executed by the company and Lestat by being instrumental in the conviction which would absolutely make Louis hates him for a very long time.
I am certain Armand already has a deal in place so Louis is declared innocent and it also explain why even though Louis knew Lestat to be alive he never look for him or the opposite. They saw each other and when they did it probably did not end well.
I think the deal in place is the choice he made. They gave him the choice between killing all of them or letting Louis live and Armand chose the latter.
>You underestimate Armand’s power and Armand’s hand in all of this. I’ll leave it at that.
YES!!!! Cannot wait for next week's episode where we all find out Just How Much Armand was part of what will go down.
(rubbing hands together and doing evil laugh: Bwhaa-ha-ha-ha. )
Or... this is the opposite... and lessens Armand's influence! In the books, it is Armand who wants Claudia dead. That the coven are keen on it is just a bonus to Armand. Armand is literally saying in Claudia's ear "kill yourself, set Louis free" from the first second he meets her! So I'm undecided whether Armand will actually want this on the TV show. I can't see that he has the same reason to myself, because this Claudia doesn't need him forever... BUT it would make sense the coven may want to kill Claudia and Louis and Armand sacrifices Claudia for Louis. That's very different to the book though... because in the book neither of them had to die - Armand had the power to stop either being killed...
This is pretty much how it is in the books... but I just think in the show it doesn't feel as though Louis would be tied to Claudia forever. She was literally leaving with Madeleine and Louis said he felt nothing about it. Seems kinda callous of Armand to go to such extreme measures when Claudia literally won't be around forever - it's extreme isolation of Louis - seems like WOAH, even for Armand!
This is part of the problem with the butterfly effect… Louis is a different character (as are basically all the others, save Lestat), going through a different struggle in this show… aaaaaaaaand when they arrive at the part where they must actually follow the narrative, the motivations do not make as much sense.
Yeah, you’ve really nailed the issue here. I find this adaptation fabulous & in most respects really enjoy the alterations to characters & events too & find it overall beautifully reverential to Anne’s work… but there are *some* changes to character &/or plot that in themselves are fine except that they knock on & change the entire feeling of future things & it’s important to have climactic events occur with the right feeling & with characters in the same emotional spaces & connected to each other in the same way or it can’t reach the ultimate feeling of the story… so is there a path bath to those right places?
I guess we’ll see where they go with Armand’s motivation & intentions… maybe Armand will actually be less culpable than in the books on this point???
I doubt it. Seems very culpable to me. I just think him being that way works better when Louis and Claudia have the relationship they did in the book/first movie and where Claudia saw Madeline differently, rather than as a lesbian lover to run away with. To your overall point, that begs the question why he felt the need to destroy her when in the show, it honestly feels like Louis and Claudia are somewhere between “run its course” and outright sick of each other.
That was my original question: I don’t understand why Armand wants or needs Claudia dead on the show. I understand it in the books. But it doesn’t make logical sense to me on the show that Armand would need Claudia dead. And if he feels like he still needs that & is the mastermind behind her death, it makes him even more inhuman than in the books… which appears to me to kind of counter E6 where they not only showed book-Canon Armand not wanting to make Madeleine a vampire… BUT they also showed qualities in Madeleine’s personality that are similar to qualities that will later draw Armand to Daniel (in my opinion.) Every thing builds to make it make less sense to me why Armand would need Claudia dead. Which, in the end makes me wonder if they’ll frame it on the show as the coven that want Claudia & Louis dead & Armand sacrifices Claudia to spare Louis. If so, that’s wrong as Armand’s status & vampiric age mean he could absolutely save them both though, so that also doesn’t make sense…. Maybe he kills Claudia just to get Louis to burn the theatre & vampires. Every scenario I think of doesn’t seem to give Armand enough motivation to me. The issue is - in the books Claudia would need Louis for eternity & he would be tied to her the same way…. But they feel more separate on the show? Though I guess in the books Claudia had Madeleine & intended to leave too!
Vampires in this iteration have this interesting Dom/sub dynamic but Claudia and Louis are almost equals and in a lot of ways true companions. That makes Armand jealous. No matter what he does Claudia has a power over Louis that he will never understand. She is his last real tie to humanity and a dark reminder of his human family in a weird way.
>In fact I really don’t understand at all as yet why Armand wants Claudia dead so badly on the show.
Besides simply loving Claudia in creating Madeline Louis has given himself yet another connection. In the scene where Armand finds Louis having hurt himself after Claudia and Madeline have left Louis comments that he feels a pull toward Madeline because he made her a vampire. Then at the dinner Madeline is going on and on about her connection to Louis and how she feels tied to him as well.
Armand wants to be Louis' everything and he doesn't want to compete with any of these other ties or connections.
I guess... this honestly feels completely insane even for Armand though... considering Claudia and Madeleine were leaving Louis with no intention of seeing him again and Louis doesn't have a deep love for Madeleine - he doesn't even know her! He simply feels her. Armand understands that feeling as he has a maker too... and it cannot be that overwhelming once there is distance between you considering Armand thinks Marius is dead for centuries and Louis and Lestat at certain times absolutely think the other is dead when they are not. And in the same conversation, Louis says he feels nothing about Claudia leaving...
Armand wanted her dead because she stood in the way of him and Louis. This is true in all mediums, though Louis and Claudia’s relationship is significantly different in the show, as is practically everything else.
Isn’t like the first sign of an abusive relationship to isolate people from their loved ones? Louis kind of does the same thing tho separating Armand from the coven. So much toxicity. Also Claudia is the last vestige and tangible strand to Lestat Louis has. When he feels “nothing” when she leaves I think it’s more he feels nothing for Lestat. He doesn’t see her as a real person. Shes been screaming that all season. And like Claudia says you can’t gain something (strength and hardness) without losing something. Louis has been losing Claudia this whole season he’s not gonna notice tho until it’s way too late. I’m sure being immortal makes life and relationships a little less urgent.
I also think that’s why Louis wanted Armand to change Madeline or at least be there. So then Claudia wouldn’t be this super special thing he shared with Lestat. He’d have a bandaid baby with everyone!
I don’t love the change because it’s yet another way in which they move further and further and further away from the source. In book, she wanted a child who could not die. She now fully makes Claudia as starkly different from the very personal character Anne Rice created as are Louis and Armand.
On the point of Madeleine, I don’t think her book-motivation makes sense in this world - both because TV-Claudia is not a child in any way & because Claudia doesn’t *need* Madeleine to exist in the same way a 5-year-old vampire does… only she needs her to survive as she needs love to survive eternity.
Madeleine is personal given Anne’s daughter’s story of course, but as poignant as that is as background context, I don’t find it matters to TV Claudia’s story myself.
Avid book fan here.
All changes approved thus far as armund admits he lied about lestat being weaker and had sex with him in front of his lover.
That's the one thing I can't accept
I like both of those changes. Lestat being weaker makes perfect sense, and him being a dick to his lover is textbook Lestat behavior. Wouldn't change a thing here.
But Lestat never wanted to be with Armand and rejected him repeatedly. That rejection is a major part of Armand's motivation for his treatment of Louis and Nicki.
Here, the change wasn't that huge. In this version, Lestat had seduced him to learn everything he had to teach, and then just ditched him once he got everything he wanted from him. There is still a rejection here, only even more cruel and painful for Armand.
I gotta respectfully disagree... because lestats maker was older than armaund and he was older when he wad turned he has always been stronger in the books and easily defeats armaund every time.
As far as being a dick, totally lestat behaviour...but he lover laid a hand on his lovers before... that annoys me.
It retconned in the books...hope it is here..but at the same time these guys earned my respect...they can take this where they want as fair as im concerned
>I gotta respectfully disagree... because lestats maker was older than armaund
We know very little about Magnus from The Vampire Lestat. We weren't told how old he was exactly, but Armand's maker - Marius - is roughly as old as Christianity, and Armand, his fledgling, should have handed Lestat's ass to him as easily as he did on the show, especially since he was already way older than him at this point.
Magnus stole the dark gift from a very, very, VERY ancient vampire and then forced it on Lestat, only to promptly go into the fire. Armand is certainly not a push over, but Marius also took the time to teach him all he knew. Magnus left Lestat adrift. This is of course all before Lestat drinks from Akasha.
Armand’s maker was 1500 years old when he turned Armand and had been getting regular power ups that entire time; Lestat's maker was 400 years old at most when he made Lestat, and had zero boosts. Lestat is so powerful in the books because there are just freaks of nature who turn out incredibly powerful or incredibly shitty sometimes, there are no actual reasons for it.
Untrue. Lestat drinks from multiple ancients, not the least of which is Akasha. Further, we later find out Magnus stole his power from a very powerful vampire. Age isn’t always the deciding factor.
I'm talking about Lestat being able to kick Armand’s ass the first time they met, Lestat had never encountered Akasha or Gregory or anybody else at that point. And I cannot stress enough that Benedict wasn't on Marius' level, lmao.
Your powerscaling doesn't make any sense. Armand was 200+ in 1790s and Marius was 1500+ when he turned him. Magus was a few hundred years old when he turned Lestat and he was a vampire for only a couple of years at that point, a newborn baby. Furthermore, Lestat wasn't taught anything about being a vampire by his maker or any other vampire. In what world would he be stronger than Armand?
Magnus stole the blood from an ancient and chose lestat for his physical strength.
He was older than armaund, fully grown and took to the blood better.
This is what she wrote and explained.
Well, in the show Armand is 27 when he's turned. Not to mention in 1790s Lestat just got turned and had no vampire skills. What would he do against Armand's telekinesis? Punch him?
Depending on how much timeline fungibility is permitted, there are just too many unreliable narrators. Malloy knows that this is different from 1973, but how much he is going to hold back on is still a question. Even lies that are well constructed are eventually going to be revealed as truth or repeated enough to be seen as truth.
Louis has always been hustling and grinding. He has shown that he will say anything to get you to buy into his con and let you think that it's your idea to be sneaky AF.
Lestat.
Armand is getting slapped around more than I gleaned from the book, but not much. He needs slapping even more than previously believed. Intuitive hypothesis: the art that's being sold includes pieces that will never be seen outside of cleaning day at a free port. There are also pieces that are also used for creating the idealised life in the UAE as laundry. Combined, this is revenue that easily dwarfs the usual "fuck you money" and it's doubtful that none of it derives from petroleum. Killing a journalist? Please, we're making a journalist insulated from almost any variety of attempts to bring him down. Except, of course, for when we need to bring him down.
Seven days. We can do it
This thread is flaired "Book Spoilers Allowed." This means book spoilers **do not require** spoiler tags! If you are concerned about book spoilers you may want to exit this thread. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InterviewVampire) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I thought this was going to say “Madeleine” because I LOVED her & she is very much better than book-Madeleine… which will also make her more tragic all too soon 😭. I think the trial being public & a theatre show is really interesting & fabulous in theory, but I can’t exactly comment on how I feel about it as a change I have experienced…. seeing as we literally haven’t seen or experienced it yet! 😂😅 I was very excited when I first saw the posters implying this change though!!!
On one hand, yes, Madeleine's character is way more developed on the show, and we get more time to grow attached to her. In the book, she's essentially a footnote. On the other, she and her relationship with Claudia are so different in the two versions, it's hard to even compare.
Well it’s good her character on the show is better because book Claudia *needs* her, whereas it’s very different on the show. In fact I really don’t understand at all as yet why Armand wants Claudia dead so badly on the show. There’s no logic to it to me. And it should be that he wants that, right. I understand why Santiago wants it! At least partially… (partially not as he seems to like Claudia in many ways) but I don’t understand - Claudia & Madeleine were about to be off; no bother to anyone & Louis even said he felt nothing when Claudia left AND that they didn’t part on great terms. I don’t get it.
Tbh my read as someone who has not read the book is that Armand realised Claudia and Louis would always be companions. He has given everything up to be with Louis, his coven his position of powers heck his own sense of free will in a way with their all dom/sub dynamic. But there is Louis who still has Claudia and also Lestat (I refuse for a second to believe that The company was able to pull all that shit below his nose he absolutely let it happen). But imagine if you will a way for him to isolate Louis to make sure that he loses the two people he loves the most. Claudia due to being executed by the company and Lestat by being instrumental in the conviction which would absolutely make Louis hates him for a very long time. I am certain Armand already has a deal in place so Louis is declared innocent and it also explain why even though Louis knew Lestat to be alive he never look for him or the opposite. They saw each other and when they did it probably did not end well.
I think the deal in place is the choice he made. They gave him the choice between killing all of them or letting Louis live and Armand chose the latter.
You underestimate Armand’s power and Armand’s hand in all of this. I’ll leave it at that.
>You underestimate Armand’s power and Armand’s hand in all of this. I’ll leave it at that. YES!!!! Cannot wait for next week's episode where we all find out Just How Much Armand was part of what will go down. (rubbing hands together and doing evil laugh: Bwhaa-ha-ha-ha. )
Or... this is the opposite... and lessens Armand's influence! In the books, it is Armand who wants Claudia dead. That the coven are keen on it is just a bonus to Armand. Armand is literally saying in Claudia's ear "kill yourself, set Louis free" from the first second he meets her! So I'm undecided whether Armand will actually want this on the TV show. I can't see that he has the same reason to myself, because this Claudia doesn't need him forever... BUT it would make sense the coven may want to kill Claudia and Louis and Armand sacrifices Claudia for Louis. That's very different to the book though... because in the book neither of them had to die - Armand had the power to stop either being killed...
This is pretty much how it is in the books... but I just think in the show it doesn't feel as though Louis would be tied to Claudia forever. She was literally leaving with Madeleine and Louis said he felt nothing about it. Seems kinda callous of Armand to go to such extreme measures when Claudia literally won't be around forever - it's extreme isolation of Louis - seems like WOAH, even for Armand!
This is part of the problem with the butterfly effect… Louis is a different character (as are basically all the others, save Lestat), going through a different struggle in this show… aaaaaaaaand when they arrive at the part where they must actually follow the narrative, the motivations do not make as much sense.
Yeah, you’ve really nailed the issue here. I find this adaptation fabulous & in most respects really enjoy the alterations to characters & events too & find it overall beautifully reverential to Anne’s work… but there are *some* changes to character &/or plot that in themselves are fine except that they knock on & change the entire feeling of future things & it’s important to have climactic events occur with the right feeling & with characters in the same emotional spaces & connected to each other in the same way or it can’t reach the ultimate feeling of the story… so is there a path bath to those right places? I guess we’ll see where they go with Armand’s motivation & intentions… maybe Armand will actually be less culpable than in the books on this point???
I doubt it. Seems very culpable to me. I just think him being that way works better when Louis and Claudia have the relationship they did in the book/first movie and where Claudia saw Madeline differently, rather than as a lesbian lover to run away with. To your overall point, that begs the question why he felt the need to destroy her when in the show, it honestly feels like Louis and Claudia are somewhere between “run its course” and outright sick of each other.
That was my original question: I don’t understand why Armand wants or needs Claudia dead on the show. I understand it in the books. But it doesn’t make logical sense to me on the show that Armand would need Claudia dead. And if he feels like he still needs that & is the mastermind behind her death, it makes him even more inhuman than in the books… which appears to me to kind of counter E6 where they not only showed book-Canon Armand not wanting to make Madeleine a vampire… BUT they also showed qualities in Madeleine’s personality that are similar to qualities that will later draw Armand to Daniel (in my opinion.) Every thing builds to make it make less sense to me why Armand would need Claudia dead. Which, in the end makes me wonder if they’ll frame it on the show as the coven that want Claudia & Louis dead & Armand sacrifices Claudia to spare Louis. If so, that’s wrong as Armand’s status & vampiric age mean he could absolutely save them both though, so that also doesn’t make sense…. Maybe he kills Claudia just to get Louis to burn the theatre & vampires. Every scenario I think of doesn’t seem to give Armand enough motivation to me. The issue is - in the books Claudia would need Louis for eternity & he would be tied to her the same way…. But they feel more separate on the show? Though I guess in the books Claudia had Madeleine & intended to leave too!
She did, but there was reluctance about it and the reasoning was far different. Like I said though, butterfly effect.
Vampires in this iteration have this interesting Dom/sub dynamic but Claudia and Louis are almost equals and in a lot of ways true companions. That makes Armand jealous. No matter what he does Claudia has a power over Louis that he will never understand. She is his last real tie to humanity and a dark reminder of his human family in a weird way.
>In fact I really don’t understand at all as yet why Armand wants Claudia dead so badly on the show. Besides simply loving Claudia in creating Madeline Louis has given himself yet another connection. In the scene where Armand finds Louis having hurt himself after Claudia and Madeline have left Louis comments that he feels a pull toward Madeline because he made her a vampire. Then at the dinner Madeline is going on and on about her connection to Louis and how she feels tied to him as well. Armand wants to be Louis' everything and he doesn't want to compete with any of these other ties or connections.
I guess... this honestly feels completely insane even for Armand though... considering Claudia and Madeleine were leaving Louis with no intention of seeing him again and Louis doesn't have a deep love for Madeleine - he doesn't even know her! He simply feels her. Armand understands that feeling as he has a maker too... and it cannot be that overwhelming once there is distance between you considering Armand thinks Marius is dead for centuries and Louis and Lestat at certain times absolutely think the other is dead when they are not. And in the same conversation, Louis says he feels nothing about Claudia leaving...
Armand wanted her dead because she stood in the way of him and Louis. This is true in all mediums, though Louis and Claudia’s relationship is significantly different in the show, as is practically everything else.
Isn’t like the first sign of an abusive relationship to isolate people from their loved ones? Louis kind of does the same thing tho separating Armand from the coven. So much toxicity. Also Claudia is the last vestige and tangible strand to Lestat Louis has. When he feels “nothing” when she leaves I think it’s more he feels nothing for Lestat. He doesn’t see her as a real person. Shes been screaming that all season. And like Claudia says you can’t gain something (strength and hardness) without losing something. Louis has been losing Claudia this whole season he’s not gonna notice tho until it’s way too late. I’m sure being immortal makes life and relationships a little less urgent.
I also think that’s why Louis wanted Armand to change Madeline or at least be there. So then Claudia wouldn’t be this super special thing he shared with Lestat. He’d have a bandaid baby with everyone!
Not Louis looking Babydaddy #2 😂🤣 Louis out here trying to baby trap these vamps
I don’t love the change because it’s yet another way in which they move further and further and further away from the source. In book, she wanted a child who could not die. She now fully makes Claudia as starkly different from the very personal character Anne Rice created as are Louis and Armand.
On the point of Madeleine, I don’t think her book-motivation makes sense in this world - both because TV-Claudia is not a child in any way & because Claudia doesn’t *need* Madeleine to exist in the same way a 5-year-old vampire does… only she needs her to survive as she needs love to survive eternity. Madeleine is personal given Anne’s daughter’s story of course, but as poignant as that is as background context, I don’t find it matters to TV Claudia’s story myself.
Avid book fan here. All changes approved thus far as armund admits he lied about lestat being weaker and had sex with him in front of his lover. That's the one thing I can't accept
I'm guessing that version of events isn't entirely true. Armand be lying
I like both of those changes. Lestat being weaker makes perfect sense, and him being a dick to his lover is textbook Lestat behavior. Wouldn't change a thing here.
But Lestat never wanted to be with Armand and rejected him repeatedly. That rejection is a major part of Armand's motivation for his treatment of Louis and Nicki.
Here, the change wasn't that huge. In this version, Lestat had seduced him to learn everything he had to teach, and then just ditched him once he got everything he wanted from him. There is still a rejection here, only even more cruel and painful for Armand.
I gotta respectfully disagree... because lestats maker was older than armaund and he was older when he wad turned he has always been stronger in the books and easily defeats armaund every time. As far as being a dick, totally lestat behaviour...but he lover laid a hand on his lovers before... that annoys me. It retconned in the books...hope it is here..but at the same time these guys earned my respect...they can take this where they want as fair as im concerned
>I gotta respectfully disagree... because lestats maker was older than armaund We know very little about Magnus from The Vampire Lestat. We weren't told how old he was exactly, but Armand's maker - Marius - is roughly as old as Christianity, and Armand, his fledgling, should have handed Lestat's ass to him as easily as he did on the show, especially since he was already way older than him at this point.
Magnus stole the dark gift from a very, very, VERY ancient vampire and then forced it on Lestat, only to promptly go into the fire. Armand is certainly not a push over, but Marius also took the time to teach him all he knew. Magnus left Lestat adrift. This is of course all before Lestat drinks from Akasha.
Armand’s maker was 1500 years old when he turned Armand and had been getting regular power ups that entire time; Lestat's maker was 400 years old at most when he made Lestat, and had zero boosts. Lestat is so powerful in the books because there are just freaks of nature who turn out incredibly powerful or incredibly shitty sometimes, there are no actual reasons for it.
Untrue. Lestat drinks from multiple ancients, not the least of which is Akasha. Further, we later find out Magnus stole his power from a very powerful vampire. Age isn’t always the deciding factor.
I'm talking about Lestat being able to kick Armand’s ass the first time they met, Lestat had never encountered Akasha or Gregory or anybody else at that point. And I cannot stress enough that Benedict wasn't on Marius' level, lmao.
Your powerscaling doesn't make any sense. Armand was 200+ in 1790s and Marius was 1500+ when he turned him. Magus was a few hundred years old when he turned Lestat and he was a vampire for only a couple of years at that point, a newborn baby. Furthermore, Lestat wasn't taught anything about being a vampire by his maker or any other vampire. In what world would he be stronger than Armand?
Magnus stole the blood from an ancient and chose lestat for his physical strength. He was older than armaund, fully grown and took to the blood better. This is what she wrote and explained.
Well, in the show Armand is 27 when he's turned. Not to mention in 1790s Lestat just got turned and had no vampire skills. What would he do against Armand's telekinesis? Punch him?
In the boom magnus shows him the basic of telkensis and he has to use the powers immediately in order to enter magnus coffin chamber
I think Madeline herself is an amazing change from the book character. Such a rich, complex version.
Depending on how much timeline fungibility is permitted, there are just too many unreliable narrators. Malloy knows that this is different from 1973, but how much he is going to hold back on is still a question. Even lies that are well constructed are eventually going to be revealed as truth or repeated enough to be seen as truth. Louis has always been hustling and grinding. He has shown that he will say anything to get you to buy into his con and let you think that it's your idea to be sneaky AF. Lestat. Armand is getting slapped around more than I gleaned from the book, but not much. He needs slapping even more than previously believed. Intuitive hypothesis: the art that's being sold includes pieces that will never be seen outside of cleaning day at a free port. There are also pieces that are also used for creating the idealised life in the UAE as laundry. Combined, this is revenue that easily dwarfs the usual "fuck you money" and it's doubtful that none of it derives from petroleum. Killing a journalist? Please, we're making a journalist insulated from almost any variety of attempts to bring him down. Except, of course, for when we need to bring him down. Seven days. We can do it