I'm just realizing, she is the ONLY obsessive fangirl of a Main Character that I liked (Griffith and the Band, and even the actual main character, considered him the main character).
It was gut wrenching and pathetic.
Griffith is such a well-written antagonist. His design and mannerisms make him appear like a traditional hero of fantasy; Miura even gives him this ethereal glow in most of his panels. Yet his actions and his internal monologue clue the audience into his real personality.
>!At first, the reader wants Guts to remain with the Band until Griffith makes it clear that Guts is mostly just an affectionate tool for Griffith to use. The reader then wants Guts to leave for himself, but then there's Casca caught in the mix. Now you have three main characters who all want different things and it all spirals out of control and the reader is left hopelessly waiting for things to resolve relatively peacefully. But Griffith can't have that. Griffith needs his control because that's the only way he can get his dream.!<
Not true. Griffith does care for Guts; he's not a sociopath. That's like saying he really just saw selling his body as a practical transaction and was happy to have done it.
His ambition is an obsession. He justifies that he can't stop because if he did, all the monstrous things he's done would have been for nothing. He needs control because he's a narcissist. Deeply insecure, lonely and desperate for connection but unable... He's a great character. I think he cried for Griffith, or the Band, when he transformed. I looked it up and he says in the torcher chamber, "Only you could make me forget my dream."
I’m a little contentious about Griffith’s feelings toward his followers.
Griffith clearly cares about them, but not in a healthy way. He sees them as—the best way I can put it—proof of his accomplishments. The fact that Guts, someone who is super competent and strong, is his right hand propels his ego and his image, on top of Guts’s usefulness. If he truly cared about Guts’s feelings he wouldn't have a problem with Guts leaving the band. I don’t even think Guts was necessary for his plans at that point. Griffith was one bad cold or poisoned wine glass away from marrying Charlotte and gaining the crown.
But he *does* care about them. There's some nuance around it. He doesn't want bad things to happen to them, and he feels guilt over the dead. As you said, his ambition is partially caused by the dread of knowing all of that carnage would be all for naught if he didn't have the crown.
Yeah just watching the show it looks like guts is having a tough life but the friendship he’s making with the crew and casca will surely help him become better and get over his trauma.
From what I understand grimgar wont get a 2nd season as the anime left out some people that become rather important later on. Atleast that is what I heard
Grimgar's anime was actually very faithful to the light novels for the most part. They only covered two volumes and did a good job. They did however add a number of anime original scenes and also changed a few minor events which would conflict with future events a bit. Haruhiro and Merry's relationship was played up a lot in the anime compared to the light novels though. It probably won't get a 2nd season just because it's not popular enough and anime adaptations are usually just advertisements for the source material.
Don't know if your serious or memeing but I'll respond anyways. It's not a sexual thing that makes me enjoy isekai's with male characters in the heros party, it's that I just know in the back of my head that the author is being manipulative by having them all be pretty, non muscular teenage girls that want hero-sans D because that's what they think the audience wants.
In the light novel they literally consummate the marriage in the middle of the forest on the day they meet. I’m not sure if that contradicts or supports your point now that I typed it out.
A lot of people can't tell the difference between fiction and reality. They think Anime having slavery is somehow telling you it's a good thing when it's not that simple.
Most relationships aren't one person feeling duty bound to take care of someone. While the same person keeps making advances over and over while constantly being rejected.
There's nothing healthy in that dynamic.
Or in the ln where it really was just "you're physically stronger than me fill me with your children"
It was like a few chapters. I can't recall the exact one, but about 10-20. Imo way fast to call it "grow feelings". And the girl was just instant. So does not cont.
I still like the manga, tho.
I mean she wanted to be his mate (in the anime, I have not read any versions of it), however she grew to understand what a relationship was and fell in love with him and him with her.
It wasn’t instantaneous love.
Even in the anime there's no growing to understand. She learns how to be a bit more chill but she admits that not only was she always in love but even when he said the marriage was pretend she wasn't pretending and fully considered them to be married.
I want to see an Isekai like "isekaied and now I'm living in the favelas"
Or something like that, if it was based on México it would be "living in Ecatepec or Iztapalapa"
As someone who used to live in a slum in Tijuana, I want to read this.
Imagine a potential hero appearing in a slum where humans are discriminated by elves or another fantastic race, and charm his way out of the slums. Or initiate a revolt.
I was thinking of the little computer kid that they have in SAO. I was thinking they had a baby in the game, but looking back it was an NPC kid they adopted.
Knight and magic and Wiseman's grandchild are the only two which has monogamy from all the isekai which I have seen.
Maybe there are a few more sao types with baiting harem. But yeah that's about it
I'm poly but the way a lot of harem isekai are written is kinda off-putting. I'd rather see a single loving relationship that feels real than whatever underbaked harem fantasy fulfillment we usually get. Maybe it's just a by-product of having more characters, it just takes more thought and time to develop the relationships between each of them. Plus, lots of harem stories feel like they're collecting each 'type' of woman (or underage girl, as they case may be). And that's assuming they're not slaves to begin with, ugh
The vast majority of harem anime lacks the commitment and effort to do polyamory properly and ends up being scummy wish fulfilment or misery porn.
There are three common mistakes that lead to this:
1. The harem lacks chemistry, both with MC and with each other, so there is no pull towards a "harem ending".
2. The author makes MC an indecisive but "monogamous" scumbag: the protagonist will spend however many seasons leading on the harem members and sometimes cheating on them with one another, only to finally pick a "winner" when there is no more plot to milk out of it. The losers will generally be miserable or get a consolation prize of sorts if the author feels merciful.
3. The harem is recognised as an actual harem, but the members are more or less explicitly treated as below/beneath the protagonist: slavery, legal polygamy, weird obsessions, some variant of "a single partner would never be enough to satisfy someone as great as you", and so on. Not all of these are equally bad, but a relationship where members are not equals is never great.
Once in a while I see an anime that puts in the effort for a proper, functional and wholesome polycule. And every time I am very happy. But boy is it frustrating to see most "harems" being so badly written.
I dont see how this manga or anime is good. I watched the first 5 episodes and stopped because it was too cliche and cringy, the comedy isn't even funny.
I laughed at Dungeon Meshi more than this manga.
If you're up for absurdist ecchi comedy, "100 Girlfriends" is a surprisingly progressive depiction of an openly poly relationship. It goes in some weird places with other aspects of the plot, but the harem side is handled flawlessly.
The only harem isekai that comes to mind off the top of my head that made me ship the harem as a whole is HameFura ("My Next Life as a Villainess...etc..."; long titles are annoying), but the protagonist is completely unaware of having a full-fledged bisexual harem ready to happen, so it's not as satisfying. Still, at least I genuinely ship them all together, so *clearly* they did something right.
"Trapped in a Dating Sim: the world of otome games is tough for mobs " (sigh) has a surprisingly compelling throuple ship going on, but unless the author plans to add more girls I would call 3 people a harem. A cute polycule, though.
Depending on your tolerance for flawed writing, a lot of stuff can be better-than-nothing when you squint, but it takes a lot of searching and patience. Also, sometimes I drop/avoid a series for other reasons, and the harem elements would be fine.
lol, i'm with you on the overly long titles. i've heard good things about 100 girlfriends and have been recommended Trapped in a Dating Sim more than a few times now, so I think this week would be a good time to dip my toes into both those series.
I'm not too familiar with the Villainess show, but I'll throw it on my "need to watch" list for the future. Thank your for your insights and recommendations. Cheers!
I have the same problem. I've consumed hundreds of anime at this point in my life, but gun to my head and all I can remember is Cowboy Bebop, Trigun or DBZ, lol.
i think its a tough assignment to find harems that don't fall into the 3 main categories that you listed. they are all very much wish fulfillment fantasies. Often the MC says or does one nice thing for the female character and they instantly fall in love with the MC.
not that I don't enjoy these shows. Its funny but overlooking flawed writing is almost a must to enjoy the vast majority of shows available. so many shows with great elements that also still have such problematic ones as well. Mushoku being a great example of such an interesting world to explore but the MC has some serious baggage that is difficult to overlook.
>!I think he also gets the queen somehow. It's just something I've heard that might happen from the internet, I don't know if this is factual or not. !<
Mobuseka really is a hidden gem because it actually develops the connection between the girls before developing the romance between the MC and them. While you can go the other way around, a harem or polygamous/polyamorous situation needs to establish chemistry between everyone. The love interests should not be orbiters. Harem as a concept isn't bad. Harem in execution is often bad.
Just curious if you have watched the anime or read the light novels for Moshuku Tensei, and what you might think of that harem... I am not poly myself, but it seems healthier than other harem animes.
I'm not caught up with MoTen, but I dropped because I grew tired of Rudy's personality, not any harem/ship related reasons. It didn't have much of an actual harem when I dropped it, so I wouldn't know.
It's a well made anime, don't get me wrong, and there is nothing wrong with having your protagonist start off as a shitty person. I just wasn't in the right mind space to deal with his shit. I will likely pick it up again sooner or later.
Yeah I’ve read all of mushoku tensei and I was reading their list and being like “damn, mushoku tensei did it pretty good because it doesn’t have any of those problems”
Fun fact is lvl 2 would become a harem if the wife wolf girl didn't stopped all the others since the beginning.
People used to say that Yuusha shoukan and Isekai barrier master have good harem development.
About the topic: idc about this when the story is not focused in the relationship but instead in the adventure. If I'm into some Isekai rpg story search for a wife would be the last thing I would do. Exp and legendary itens first.
Nah, barrier master is bad regarding that, it feels like some pity party shit, but... The bar is so low that it is actually much better than most harems for that,.no slaves, pity is a logical feeling , etc...
I tried to recall any manga, novel or anime with this kind of development, but I couldn't... in case we are talking about heterosexual relationship. While almost immediately 3 novels about lesbians pops up in my mind and I'm 100% sure there is a lot more.
But actually I managed to recall one: Villainess Level 99. Probably it's because MC is female while the target audience is mostly universal.
Maybe. I completely forgot it existed. But. Firstly, SAO had a few relatively short, but still existing "alternatives". Secondly, I can't recall any *development* in there. Imp, their relationships just happened and then existed, while story was focused on adventure itself and new characters.
These type of people are the problem:
https://preview.redd.it/vp4kivqkch8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=172c50de70c56f9a1ac8450550fc8c9843ab97a2
I also love harem is fantasy genre, but sometimes reading/watching monogamy always heals your heart, even if its not fantasy
my favorite are two manhua
My wife is from a thousand years ago
What do you do if the heroine escapes from your novel
and tonikaku kawaai
Not really. It's more like mc usually have a power that put his life in easy difficult making getting waifus a piece of cake when compared to the others ( and yes, sometimes he just op).
Love monogamy but tbh harem can be good as well as long as it's executed properly. Same goes for monogamy, can be shit if done improperly (imo [Yuusha Party ni Kawaii Ko ga Ita no de, Kokuhaku Shite Mita](https://manga4life.com/manga/Yuusha-Party-ni-Kawaii-Ko-ga-Ita-no-de-Kokuhaku-Shite-Mita) is a very good example of this but idk that's probably kind of a warm take lol)
I am writing a story like that, although my main character is absolutely insufferable at the beginning, but that is a requirement for further character development
Some people insist that even if the MC is surrounded by a party of hot girls, "its not harem" because the MC is "just friends" with them.
It's like, they dont understand how harem stories are written in Japan...its deliberately written that way because otherwise the otakus get really mad that the MC picked a girl other than "their waifu".
I am thinking about one TS one where the mc is torn off between the girl and the guy, because he was a man in his previous life, liking the guy is gay, but because she is now a girl, liking the girl is gay too... In the end she decides being gay is ok.
Wiseman's Grandchild, SAO (yes, I'm serious) and "Shin no Nakama" (excessively long title) come to mind.
Could also include Lv.2 Cheat Skill, but a lot would disagree.
I like harem but the problem is that none of them have a healthy relationship, it’s like the girls in isekai have no god damn standards except for if he is the mc who is dense as hell
Like if a rock mc help a girl with groceries once, she falls in love on the spot
Mobuseka is actually pretty good with it. Mainly because of the MC being loved because he secured the girls actual agency in their lives and the girls developed chemistry between each other so that it's actually unfair to expect the MC to pick one over the other. To boot, the MC is the one sort of pressured into the relationship because the MC has a very low opinion on his role in other people's lives.
Harem in which Harem isn't the main focus of the entire story >>>>>>>( D frag and Tsukimichi is a good example even though both have a bit of harem elements in them the story doesn't entirely revolve around it In Tsukimichi it's about the world and the surrounding in which the mc is in and in D frag it's more about non comedy)
Look, polyamorous relationships can be just as healthy, romantic, and well-written as monogamous relationships. The problem is that it's not what harem writers are doing. It's always which character trope will win the MC's heart in the end or some contrived circumstances that force all the love interests to share the MC.
Thats one of the reasons I love Sword Art Online. Kirito and Asunas relationship is just beautiful, and while there are other girls who wants Kirito, theyre respectful for the most part.
Accel World and The Irregular at Magic Highschool are similar and all three are even better as Light Novels
Edit
The are also a few titles with harems that are actually good and have real heroines that are fleshed out and arent just carboard cutouts that are head over heels for their equally cardboard spineless OP MC.
Probably because a majority of harem stories handle it really, really badly.
The girls in a harem tend to have either no personality or one personality trait. Sometimes, that personality is all about their body (like being a loli or having big breasts). They're kind of just there to prop up the main character and provide readers with a selection of girls they can drool over.
The thing that really annoys me is when the girls have no dreams, hopes, or plans of their own. The entirety of their existence is focused around the protagonist, either because they love him or they're forced to be around him (slave). They don't want to become the greatest warrior, discover new magic, or explore the world, they just want to be around the guy they've known for all of two minutes and fallen in "love" with. Anything they'd wanted to do before they met the protagonist tends to either fall to the side or get completely forgotten in favor of whatever the protagonist wants.
TLDR: Harems tend to be done badly because most of the girls are just props to make the protagonist look better.
The Isekai with the shortened title "Jack of all trades" is a great monogamous story. it's refreshing to see the author toss other girls at the MC now and then watch him nope out instantly, with a loyal heart for his Daniela. Good stuff. I really bet the author was sick to death of harems when he wrote it.
(Full title: "Isekai ni Kita Boku wa Kiyoubinbode Subaya-sa Tayorina Tabi o Suru")
Eminence in Shadows will only be the closest harem anime and manga that I will ever enjoy, isekai or not. The seven didn’t each have their own introductory, but I still felt like they belonged there, and not as ornaments. Each had their own role, and the MC had a personality that made everything just fit perfectly well together
At this point if they just started going poly without all the "oooooohhh who's the protagonist gonna pick" like it's the fucking bachelor I wouldn't mind either
Monogamy is popular and dominant in almost every other genre. But people are malding when there's a genre where it's not or has an equal in terms of frequency.
I feel this is the case due to less characters. You’re able to get more in depth characters instead of a variety pack of characters. Both have their ups and downs, the wide cast is a wide net for an audience allowing almost anyone to feel like they relate to a character, but the monogamy style allows you to know a character, their flaws and strengths explore those traits and over all improve.
I also feel the over saturation of harem is also a factor on why monogamy writing is deemed “better” because we’re all used to essentially the same story, (gets isekai’d wakes up strong, has harem, the end) that when a in-depth monogamy writing gets published it’s different and unique and idk about yall I tend to lean towards good and unique writing
>Can't believe the bar is so low that monogamy is peak
I watch isekai for the fantasy. If everything is the same as real world, would there be any point in watching isekai?
Yes, there totally would be. Just because you can't think of a compelling plot for a story in an alternate universe that plays by the rules of our universe doesn't mean there couldn't be. Also wtf does this even mean, polygamous relationships exist in our world already. In what world is that trope synonymous with fantasy?
I just don't think having anime where every woman in the entire show only exists to fawn constantly over the MC from first sight is very good writing.
It isn't interesting and isn't believable.
Trying to watch Tsukimichi -Moonlite Fantasy-, has a 4.8 rating, literally every single woman in the anime only exists to drool over the MC at every opportunity.
We can do better than this.
I dunno, if you were essentially a god (and presumably reasonably nice), I can imagine that seeming quite attractive in a world where power is one of the most highly-valued traits. 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah okay
>Literally every woman he meets
"I want your babies"
That isn't good writing or interesting story. Its just fanservice for sad smelly people.
I can't think of a single isekai where the mc is actually in a fully monogamous relationship other than maybe mushoku tensei and sao but those are a stretch.
Well where I am currently in the anime it is a monogamous relationship. Sylfie just had a kid. I haven't read the manga so I'm not 100% which is y I said it's a stretch
I dont want to spoiler you so dont read the next part if you dont want to. I am not dropping any names or stuff in the spoiler course.
But >!MT is quiet obvious a Harem story. If you watch the latest season, just wait for the next episode i think.!<
Lol Mushoku tensei?
Wise Man's Grandchild or knights and magic are fully monogamous relationship. Even better than sao type examples where you have hanging girls
There is a great manga where this happens, I only read the first volume but Berserk is great............................................
https://preview.redd.it/xu2s00b8yc8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=823f355ea52f2d591dcb01f313c9c5e0b075ff83
r/holup
This joke only works on people who’ve heard of Berserk but haven't read it. Because Casca doesn't show up at all in the first volume.
I'm just realizing, she is the ONLY obsessive fangirl of a Main Character that I liked (Griffith and the Band, and even the actual main character, considered him the main character). It was gut wrenching and pathetic.
Griffith is such a well-written antagonist. His design and mannerisms make him appear like a traditional hero of fantasy; Miura even gives him this ethereal glow in most of his panels. Yet his actions and his internal monologue clue the audience into his real personality. >!At first, the reader wants Guts to remain with the Band until Griffith makes it clear that Guts is mostly just an affectionate tool for Griffith to use. The reader then wants Guts to leave for himself, but then there's Casca caught in the mix. Now you have three main characters who all want different things and it all spirals out of control and the reader is left hopelessly waiting for things to resolve relatively peacefully. But Griffith can't have that. Griffith needs his control because that's the only way he can get his dream.!<
Not true. Griffith does care for Guts; he's not a sociopath. That's like saying he really just saw selling his body as a practical transaction and was happy to have done it. His ambition is an obsession. He justifies that he can't stop because if he did, all the monstrous things he's done would have been for nothing. He needs control because he's a narcissist. Deeply insecure, lonely and desperate for connection but unable... He's a great character. I think he cried for Griffith, or the Band, when he transformed. I looked it up and he says in the torcher chamber, "Only you could make me forget my dream."
I’m a little contentious about Griffith’s feelings toward his followers. Griffith clearly cares about them, but not in a healthy way. He sees them as—the best way I can put it—proof of his accomplishments. The fact that Guts, someone who is super competent and strong, is his right hand propels his ego and his image, on top of Guts’s usefulness. If he truly cared about Guts’s feelings he wouldn't have a problem with Guts leaving the band. I don’t even think Guts was necessary for his plans at that point. Griffith was one bad cold or poisoned wine glass away from marrying Charlotte and gaining the crown. But he *does* care about them. There's some nuance around it. He doesn't want bad things to happen to them, and he feels guilt over the dead. As you said, his ambition is partially caused by the dread of knowing all of that carnage would be all for naught if he didn't have the crown.
[I'm sorry?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand-yard_stare#/media/File:Thomas_C._Lea_III_-_That_Two-Thousand_Yard_Stare_-_Original.jpg)
https://preview.redd.it/buzmvkdxud8d1.jpeg?width=3008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52883e5ece87d565cb89af2b902ccb649d3a5820
Real or Bait?
Wai wha?
Oh nah 😭
Yeah just watching the show it looks like guts is having a tough life but the friendship he’s making with the crew and casca will surely help him become better and get over his trauma.
Monogamy? Bro I'd settle for just having male characters as secondary characters in mc's group. Even that is somehow hard to come by.
Märchen Awakens Romance
Damn did you just suggest the most memory holed series. That goatee ball immediately made me recognize it.
Cries in Grimgar still no second season.
From what I understand grimgar wont get a 2nd season as the anime left out some people that become rather important later on. Atleast that is what I heard
Yeah, I heard that too. It was an interesting anime.
Grimgar's anime was actually very faithful to the light novels for the most part. They only covered two volumes and did a good job. They did however add a number of anime original scenes and also changed a few minor events which would conflict with future events a bit. Haruhiro and Merry's relationship was played up a lot in the anime compared to the light novels though. It probably won't get a 2nd season just because it's not popular enough and anime adaptations are usually just advertisements for the source material.
Don't know if your serious or memeing but I'll respond anyways. It's not a sexual thing that makes me enjoy isekai's with male characters in the heros party, it's that I just know in the back of my head that the author is being manipulative by having them all be pretty, non muscular teenage girls that want hero-sans D because that's what they think the audience wants.
Female protagonist even? No? That doesn't support the agenda? Ok got it.
Isekai Samurai is peak isekai imo so I'd go for that too.
I'll check it out! Thank you.
Fired from the demon kings army fits this.
Technically not an isekai but 100%, I quite liked it to be honest
I loved how their son took after the dad: a fan of big bazongas
The lord of logistic Dariel? 😂
lvl 2 cheat skill would fall in here.
Man, I really need to get back to watching that
Fenrys is so peak
best waifu, also opening is one of the cutest things I have ever seen in my life
There's no real development or blossoming. It's just the "you beat me I want to have your babies" trope
And over time, he grows to love her.
Not really. It's mostly just a proximity and persistence thing. Had the genders been reversed, it just would have been creepy.
In the light novel they literally consummate the marriage in the middle of the forest on the day they meet. I’m not sure if that contradicts or supports your point now that I typed it out.
Lol I don't understand why people are so afraid to enjoy things. They have to lie to themselves out feel bad about enjoying it.
A lot of people can't tell the difference between fiction and reality. They think Anime having slavery is somehow telling you it's a good thing when it's not that simple.
Because there's a lot of fiction and most of it is dog shit. We're not lacking for options, unless you like Isekai of course.
In the LN after he beats the shit out the djinn he just tosses her on the living room floor while he and Rhys go fuck again lmao
"Proximity and persistence". Do you mean how *actual relationships* work?
Most relationships aren't one person feeling duty bound to take care of someone. While the same person keeps making advances over and over while constantly being rejected. There's nothing healthy in that dynamic. Or in the ln where it really was just "you're physically stronger than me fill me with your children"
Persistence hunting and persistence courting. Because humans are weird.
It was like a few chapters. I can't recall the exact one, but about 10-20. Imo way fast to call it "grow feelings". And the girl was just instant. So does not cont. I still like the manga, tho.
I mean she wanted to be his mate (in the anime, I have not read any versions of it), however she grew to understand what a relationship was and fell in love with him and him with her. It wasn’t instantaneous love.
Even in the anime there's no growing to understand. She learns how to be a bit more chill but she admits that not only was she always in love but even when he said the marriage was pretend she wasn't pretending and fully considered them to be married.
Despite the fact that I do love harems on isekais, monogamy with gradual development for the couple is always entertaining on isekais.
I've noticed that some people don't use the word 'in' and substitute it with 'on'. I'm curious: What is your first language?
My first language is portuguese ( I'm Brazilian)
Só... I'm not alone here
Yes, my friend and I believe there are more brazilians here, since Isekai is popular in our country as well.
Correto.
I want to see an Isekai like "isekaied and now I'm living in the favelas" Or something like that, if it was based on México it would be "living in Ecatepec or Iztapalapa"
these isekais would be really entertaining, specially the favela isekai you mentioned.
As someone who used to live in a slum in Tijuana, I want to read this. Imagine a potential hero appearing in a slum where humans are discriminated by elves or another fantastic race, and charm his way out of the slums. Or initiate a revolt.
Very cool!
r/suddenlycaralho?
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Autocorrect loves in vs on when swiping on the phone
The greatest Estate Developer.
*pulls sao card*
The first half of the first season of SAO is great! You just need somebody to close your laptop and take it away from you after episode 10.
Wait, what did I miss? What kid what born what?
Eh, I misremembered.
No no no, go on, explain, what series were you talking about? Enlight me
I was thinking of the little computer kid that they have in SAO. I was thinking they had a baby in the game, but looking back it was an NPC kid they adopted.
Sao if you entirely skip the fairy dance arc is actually good. Like deffinetly a 7/10.
Knight and magic and Wiseman's grandchild are the only two which has monogamy from all the isekai which I have seen. Maybe there are a few more sao types with baiting harem. But yeah that's about it
Ah, yes—Ernie’s one true love, the Ikaruga. It’s like they were made for each other! Or, at least, the Ikaruga was made for him. By him.
🔥
Now make their romance just like in 5cm/s
I'm poly but the way a lot of harem isekai are written is kinda off-putting. I'd rather see a single loving relationship that feels real than whatever underbaked harem fantasy fulfillment we usually get. Maybe it's just a by-product of having more characters, it just takes more thought and time to develop the relationships between each of them. Plus, lots of harem stories feel like they're collecting each 'type' of woman (or underage girl, as they case may be). And that's assuming they're not slaves to begin with, ugh
The vast majority of harem anime lacks the commitment and effort to do polyamory properly and ends up being scummy wish fulfilment or misery porn. There are three common mistakes that lead to this: 1. The harem lacks chemistry, both with MC and with each other, so there is no pull towards a "harem ending". 2. The author makes MC an indecisive but "monogamous" scumbag: the protagonist will spend however many seasons leading on the harem members and sometimes cheating on them with one another, only to finally pick a "winner" when there is no more plot to milk out of it. The losers will generally be miserable or get a consolation prize of sorts if the author feels merciful. 3. The harem is recognised as an actual harem, but the members are more or less explicitly treated as below/beneath the protagonist: slavery, legal polygamy, weird obsessions, some variant of "a single partner would never be enough to satisfy someone as great as you", and so on. Not all of these are equally bad, but a relationship where members are not equals is never great. Once in a while I see an anime that puts in the effort for a proper, functional and wholesome polycule. And every time I am very happy. But boy is it frustrating to see most "harems" being so badly written.
The 100 girlfriend that really really really like you even as a comedy leave on dust 99% of the harem mangas place them to shame
I dont see how this manga or anime is good. I watched the first 5 episodes and stopped because it was too cliche and cringy, the comedy isn't even funny. I laughed at Dungeon Meshi more than this manga.
Do you have any positive examples of what you described? I can't think of any that do it "right."
If you're up for absurdist ecchi comedy, "100 Girlfriends" is a surprisingly progressive depiction of an openly poly relationship. It goes in some weird places with other aspects of the plot, but the harem side is handled flawlessly. The only harem isekai that comes to mind off the top of my head that made me ship the harem as a whole is HameFura ("My Next Life as a Villainess...etc..."; long titles are annoying), but the protagonist is completely unaware of having a full-fledged bisexual harem ready to happen, so it's not as satisfying. Still, at least I genuinely ship them all together, so *clearly* they did something right. "Trapped in a Dating Sim: the world of otome games is tough for mobs " (sigh) has a surprisingly compelling throuple ship going on, but unless the author plans to add more girls I would call 3 people a harem. A cute polycule, though. Depending on your tolerance for flawed writing, a lot of stuff can be better-than-nothing when you squint, but it takes a lot of searching and patience. Also, sometimes I drop/avoid a series for other reasons, and the harem elements would be fine.
lol, i'm with you on the overly long titles. i've heard good things about 100 girlfriends and have been recommended Trapped in a Dating Sim more than a few times now, so I think this week would be a good time to dip my toes into both those series. I'm not too familiar with the Villainess show, but I'll throw it on my "need to watch" list for the future. Thank your for your insights and recommendations. Cheers!
I'm positive I could find more with some effort, but whenever I'm asked for recommendations, I blank out and forget every anime I've ever watched.
I have the same problem. I've consumed hundreds of anime at this point in my life, but gun to my head and all I can remember is Cowboy Bebop, Trigun or DBZ, lol. i think its a tough assignment to find harems that don't fall into the 3 main categories that you listed. they are all very much wish fulfillment fantasies. Often the MC says or does one nice thing for the female character and they instantly fall in love with the MC. not that I don't enjoy these shows. Its funny but overlooking flawed writing is almost a must to enjoy the vast majority of shows available. so many shows with great elements that also still have such problematic ones as well. Mushoku being a great example of such an interesting world to explore but the MC has some serious baggage that is difficult to overlook.
>!I think he also gets the queen somehow. It's just something I've heard that might happen from the internet, I don't know if this is factual or not. !<
Mobuseka really is a hidden gem because it actually develops the connection between the girls before developing the romance between the MC and them. While you can go the other way around, a harem or polygamous/polyamorous situation needs to establish chemistry between everyone. The love interests should not be orbiters. Harem as a concept isn't bad. Harem in execution is often bad.
If you've seen it, how do you think Date a Live does harem?
I haven't seen it, sorry. No idea what it's even about.
Just curious if you have watched the anime or read the light novels for Moshuku Tensei, and what you might think of that harem... I am not poly myself, but it seems healthier than other harem animes.
I'm not caught up with MoTen, but I dropped because I grew tired of Rudy's personality, not any harem/ship related reasons. It didn't have much of an actual harem when I dropped it, so I wouldn't know. It's a well made anime, don't get me wrong, and there is nothing wrong with having your protagonist start off as a shitty person. I just wasn't in the right mind space to deal with his shit. I will likely pick it up again sooner or later.
Yeah I’ve read all of mushoku tensei and I was reading their list and being like “damn, mushoku tensei did it pretty good because it doesn’t have any of those problems”
i think the harem of moten kinda hurt it more, after a while they kinda moving in unit it almost a reduction of character of sort.
I don't even care if it's a harem, just give MC enough balls to actually choose and marry either one or all of them
Or give the harem enough tits to marry the mc Works too
Fun fact is lvl 2 would become a harem if the wife wolf girl didn't stopped all the others since the beginning. People used to say that Yuusha shoukan and Isekai barrier master have good harem development. About the topic: idc about this when the story is not focused in the relationship but instead in the adventure. If I'm into some Isekai rpg story search for a wife would be the last thing I would do. Exp and legendary itens first.
Nah, barrier master is bad regarding that, it feels like some pity party shit, but... The bar is so low that it is actually much better than most harems for that,.no slaves, pity is a logical feeling , etc...
Laughs in gongja and raviel. https://preview.redd.it/ayydotvked8d1.jpeg?width=543&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95a8b1473f82a04ac77374d7056a2c5681abca80
PEAK
Mission:Yozakura Family
I think you might be in the wrong subreddit...
I tried to recall any manga, novel or anime with this kind of development, but I couldn't... in case we are talking about heterosexual relationship. While almost immediately 3 novels about lesbians pops up in my mind and I'm 100% sure there is a lot more. But actually I managed to recall one: Villainess Level 99. Probably it's because MC is female while the target audience is mostly universal.
So what about SAO, it has that kind of development
Maybe. I completely forgot it existed. But. Firstly, SAO had a few relatively short, but still existing "alternatives". Secondly, I can't recall any *development* in there. Imp, their relationships just happened and then existed, while story was focused on adventure itself and new characters.
Village a want to save the villainess is the greatest isekai for this reason
So "Villager A Wants to Save the Villainess no Matter What".
These type of people are the problem: https://preview.redd.it/vp4kivqkch8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=172c50de70c56f9a1ac8450550fc8c9843ab97a2
I also love harem is fantasy genre, but sometimes reading/watching monogamy always heals your heart, even if its not fantasy my favorite are two manhua My wife is from a thousand years ago What do you do if the heroine escapes from your novel and tonikaku kawaai
Meanwhile NTR artist: "EVIL LOUGHT"
Fun fact Isekai or superpower pornhwa's hardly ever have any NTR involved.
Tbf, why would you steal the love interest of someone who could easily end you if they wish to do it? lmao
Not really. It's more like mc usually have a power that put his life in easy difficult making getting waifus a piece of cake when compared to the others ( and yes, sometimes he just op).
https://preview.redd.it/ogv373hugl8d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6beaede333d4f3cec43958c1b563491a1d6b45d Peak romance
Love monogamy but tbh harem can be good as well as long as it's executed properly. Same goes for monogamy, can be shit if done improperly (imo [Yuusha Party ni Kawaii Ko ga Ita no de, Kokuhaku Shite Mita](https://manga4life.com/manga/Yuusha-Party-ni-Kawaii-Ko-ga-Ita-no-de-Kokuhaku-Shite-Mita) is a very good example of this but idk that's probably kind of a warm take lol)
I am writing a story like that, although my main character is absolutely insufferable at the beginning, but that is a requirement for further character development
Some people insist that even if the MC is surrounded by a party of hot girls, "its not harem" because the MC is "just friends" with them. It's like, they dont understand how harem stories are written in Japan...its deliberately written that way because otherwise the otakus get really mad that the MC picked a girl other than "their waifu".
I am thinking about one TS one where the mc is torn off between the girl and the guy, because he was a man in his previous life, liking the guy is gay, but because she is now a girl, liking the girl is gay too... In the end she decides being gay is ok.
Wiseman's Grandchild, SAO (yes, I'm serious) and "Shin no Nakama" (excessively long title) come to mind. Could also include Lv.2 Cheat Skill, but a lot would disagree.
SAO is a great example
I like harem but the problem is that none of them have a healthy relationship, it’s like the girls in isekai have no god damn standards except for if he is the mc who is dense as hell Like if a rock mc help a girl with groceries once, she falls in love on the spot
Mobuseka is actually pretty good with it. Mainly because of the MC being loved because he secured the girls actual agency in their lives and the girls developed chemistry between each other so that it's actually unfair to expect the MC to pick one over the other. To boot, the MC is the one sort of pressured into the relationship because the MC has a very low opinion on his role in other people's lives.
The reason why harems are so prevalent is because studios and authors get less death threats that way.
Kenja no mago has exactly that
Harem in which Harem isn't the main focus of the entire story >>>>>>>( D frag and Tsukimichi is a good example even though both have a bit of harem elements in them the story doesn't entirely revolve around it In Tsukimichi it's about the world and the surrounding in which the mc is in and in D frag it's more about non comedy)
Look, polyamorous relationships can be just as healthy, romantic, and well-written as monogamous relationships. The problem is that it's not what harem writers are doing. It's always which character trope will win the MC's heart in the end or some contrived circumstances that force all the love interests to share the MC.
If only there were a genre almost completely centered on these 1 to 1 relations
MT would have something to say about monogamy being the peak XD
Perfect
Heavenly Demon Can't live a normal life
So whats a good example of this? (Anime name)
Thats one of the reasons I love Sword Art Online. Kirito and Asunas relationship is just beautiful, and while there are other girls who wants Kirito, theyre respectful for the most part. Accel World and The Irregular at Magic Highschool are similar and all three are even better as Light Novels Edit The are also a few titles with harems that are actually good and have real heroines that are fleshed out and arent just carboard cutouts that are head over heels for their equally cardboard spineless OP MC.
I have a legitimate question, does Shadow Slave count in as this
The saints magic power is omnipotent fits this It's a really sweet story
Anime name ?
Anime name for what?
The mangas name of this article
I never got why so many people cry over harems 🤣 like some people will just outright not read a great story if it even smells of a harem
Probably because a majority of harem stories handle it really, really badly. The girls in a harem tend to have either no personality or one personality trait. Sometimes, that personality is all about their body (like being a loli or having big breasts). They're kind of just there to prop up the main character and provide readers with a selection of girls they can drool over. The thing that really annoys me is when the girls have no dreams, hopes, or plans of their own. The entirety of their existence is focused around the protagonist, either because they love him or they're forced to be around him (slave). They don't want to become the greatest warrior, discover new magic, or explore the world, they just want to be around the guy they've known for all of two minutes and fallen in "love" with. Anything they'd wanted to do before they met the protagonist tends to either fall to the side or get completely forgotten in favor of whatever the protagonist wants. TLDR: Harems tend to be done badly because most of the girls are just props to make the protagonist look better.
The Isekai with the shortened title "Jack of all trades" is a great monogamous story. it's refreshing to see the author toss other girls at the MC now and then watch him nope out instantly, with a loyal heart for his Daniela. Good stuff. I really bet the author was sick to death of harems when he wrote it. (Full title: "Isekai ni Kita Boku wa Kiyoubinbode Subaya-sa Tayorina Tabi o Suru")
SAO
Can i ask for the sauce?
one manga example: Shoushaman no Isekai Survival: Zettai Hito to wa Tsurumanee
we're so fucking screwed
Wise mans Grandchild vibes
Or childhood friend is just that, a friend. Their relationship is purely mutually platonic. And they both help each other get laid by being wingmans.
I don't see a lot of people saying The beggening after the end and now i'm upset
You forget that this type of content originated in regions were polygamy in cultures would be more acceptable
As yes Isekai fan copium for overdone tropes! Truly a tasteful food! Low in value high in salt!
Eminence in Shadows will only be the closest harem anime and manga that I will ever enjoy, isekai or not. The seven didn’t each have their own introductory, but I still felt like they belonged there, and not as ornaments. Each had their own role, and the MC had a personality that made everything just fit perfectly well together
Yeah there tends to be more female characters in general
Level 2 cheat powers has peak wolf waifu.
Naruto and hinata
Okay, this was funny ngl
*laughs in PRO* It's why they seethe about the Kitsune waifus. He's one yes away from having a harem but says no because he's loyal.
At this point if they just started going poly without all the "oooooohhh who's the protagonist gonna pick" like it's the fucking bachelor I wouldn't mind either
Monogamy is popular and dominant in almost every other genre. But people are malding when there's a genre where it's not or has an equal in terms of frequency.
I feel this is the case due to less characters. You’re able to get more in depth characters instead of a variety pack of characters. Both have their ups and downs, the wide cast is a wide net for an audience allowing almost anyone to feel like they relate to a character, but the monogamy style allows you to know a character, their flaws and strengths explore those traits and over all improve. I also feel the over saturation of harem is also a factor on why monogamy writing is deemed “better” because we’re all used to essentially the same story, (gets isekai’d wakes up strong, has harem, the end) that when a in-depth monogamy writing gets published it’s different and unique and idk about yall I tend to lean towards good and unique writing
Bro, the hate for harems is exaggerated. Are there too many of them? yes. will I stop reading when there is one? no.
Cant believe the hate harem gets.
>Can't believe the bar is so low that monogamy is peak I watch isekai for the fantasy. If everything is the same as real world, would there be any point in watching isekai?
Yes, there totally would be. Just because you can't think of a compelling plot for a story in an alternate universe that plays by the rules of our universe doesn't mean there couldn't be. Also wtf does this even mean, polygamous relationships exist in our world already. In what world is that trope synonymous with fantasy?
I just don't think having anime where every woman in the entire show only exists to fawn constantly over the MC from first sight is very good writing. It isn't interesting and isn't believable. Trying to watch Tsukimichi -Moonlite Fantasy-, has a 4.8 rating, literally every single woman in the anime only exists to drool over the MC at every opportunity. We can do better than this.
I dunno, if you were essentially a god (and presumably reasonably nice), I can imagine that seeming quite attractive in a world where power is one of the most highly-valued traits. 🤷🏻♂️
Tsukimichi -Moonlite Fantasy- is good though
Yeah okay >Literally every woman he meets "I want your babies" That isn't good writing or interesting story. Its just fanservice for sad smelly people.
It's atleast better than alot of other anime.
Honestly I want a harem manga where at the end the mc just comes out as gay.
Exactly a harem will not put me off a good story.
The world has stooped so low that monogamy is an ideal.
Fruity. Westerners can't help trying to muscle in on a culture that isn't theirs and grafting their own puritan morality onto it.
What?
Fruity
Ok
All Harems are monogamous tales before the second love interest comes in. No need to be so dramatic.
What about when they start with a pair.
I can't think of a single isekai where the mc is actually in a fully monogamous relationship other than maybe mushoku tensei and sao but those are a stretch.
MT and monogamous? What you talking about?
Well where I am currently in the anime it is a monogamous relationship. Sylfie just had a kid. I haven't read the manga so I'm not 100% which is y I said it's a stretch
I dont want to spoiler you so dont read the next part if you dont want to. I am not dropping any names or stuff in the spoiler course. But >!MT is quiet obvious a Harem story. If you watch the latest season, just wait for the next episode i think.!<
Lol Mushoku tensei? Wise Man's Grandchild or knights and magic are fully monogamous relationship. Even better than sao type examples where you have hanging girls
someone hasn't watched the latest episode of mushoku tensei
[удалено]
How can he say it's a stretch
How can you say SAO is a stretch
Reason I say sao is a stretch is cuz altho yes kirito only has eyes for asuna, he still basically has a harem. And then there's also Alice.