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AZ_hiking2022

I mentioned in another post about there seemed to be a very intentional plot line on Elder Whisper and so I am hoping for more to come of that- why was he locked in a tower, why was the lock so big but simple. More on Eithan’s cradle backstory prior to meeting Lindon. One could hope for a whole other set of books but likely not. Also want to know what good it does having Lindon accept all the Akura Underlord duels getting ready for the Uncrowned Tournament. Oh wait!!! just got there last night on my reread. That was awesome!!!! Lindon: “Apologies, but I had something else in mind.”


Dodgerfan4695

My Friend has a theory that Elder Whisper is the Original Fox Abidon and that we will find this out in Waybound, it also would explain how Elder Whisper knew that “the heavens favored Lindon”


axesOfFutility

Isn't the explanation for the last part that he could read fate? He *deduced* that the heavens favoured Lindon from fate reading and Lindon's changed behaviour. This is what Unsouled says


CursedValheru

Well, there's a point to be raised that he could see the changes in fate before even the monarch factions did, depending on how you interpret his thoughts on the matter, which would obviously raise questions on how he managed that as a presumably max true gold suppressed down to jade if he doesn't have something else going on beneath the hood. Personally i think it's explained by a throw away line about him gaining insight from dwelling on the labyrinth for so long, but it's not definitively answered to my knowledge


Darklord-Ravensblood

No no, the line was about him having insight from being and thousands of years old sacred beast who has spent all that time meditating on the nature of dreams and dream madra.


GWJYonder

My memory is a little foggy but it was a little more specific than him being better at reading fate than the Abidan. I think that he actually detected the alteration that Makiel did to Fate. So it wasn't just that he was a bit better in general, but instead an implication that he was actually at an Abidan level of fate reading. I feel like the recent books actually reinforced this a bit when the Monarchs and Judges were talking about how if the Judges had decided to remove all memory of the fight from the Monarchs they could have. Whisper detecting the influence doesn't seem to make him a little better at Fate reading than even Malice, who is supposed to be skilled compared to the other Monarchs, but A LOT better than her.


Adent_Frecca

Still in the theory that Elder Whisper is the Ghostwalker Fox


dconley01

What is the Ghostwalker Fox?


jeo2134

From a WoW: There's Juwei, the Ghostwalker Fox, who has tricked Monarchs and escaped. ​ Ju**wei**


[deleted]

[удалено]


brnape

He's talking about "sacred beasts that could go toe-to-toe with a Monarch or a Dreadgod" and this was answered on Aug. 25, 2018, a full year before Uncrowned was published. So the Monarch dragon was Sesh. Neither of the other two were said to be Monarchs in terms of power, just that they could trick or otherwise get a Monarch into a stalemate.


dconley01

Wow. Do you have a link to this WoW?


jeo2134

https://abidanarchive.com/events/1-cradle/#e173


dconley01

Man, you crushed that out thank you!


TriggeredEllie

I think it explains his speech to Lindon in Unsouled even more. “The spirit has no limit, nor does the sky. How could a true Path have an ending? If you studied until the end of the universe, you would still have not touched true comprehension.” This doesn’t sound like the insight of even a truegold. Why would someone with such understanding settle down for years in a valley where he could no longer advance? But If he was the original fox, what difference does it make for him to be a Jade vs a regular Gold artist? Both are minuscule in power compared to an Abidan.


SpeckyStuff11

That's interesting. Like he's the retired Fox sent to his home world to live out the rest of his life. I'm sure Suriel mentions something of the sort of her predecessor. If all off the original Judges came from Cradle, could there be more people we've missed on our journey?


zehguga

The stones Lindon found in the Labyrinth at the end of Soulsmith!


chrisq823

They were going to be a scripting thing for Lindon but Will cut that out of his power set so he loses them in Ghostwater.


BLT_Special

Excellent, mentally made a note to look that up on my reread and forgot already haha


caime9

This one drives me crazy.


xxwerdxx

Has he misplaced any? We now know from the unsouled extra scene with Li Markuth that "spatial madra" was just the valley failing to understand travel through the way so that's now tied up. We know E=O, dreadgods, the labyrinth, etc.


caime9

Sure. The Stones from Soul Smith is a classic example.


billionair31

They were destroyed in ghostwater. "After rolling a few yards, he noticed he was leaving a trail behind; his pack had been torn apart. Burned, torn cloth that had once been part of his spare clothes. Fragmented scripts, **broken stones**. His heart caught in his throat as he saw water and broken trees spilling onto the ground between two cracked halves of a transparent case. Little Blue's tank." Pg 48 of ghostwater on my Kindle phone app.


caime9

Right, we know that they were destroyed, but thats why its a misplaced chekhov's gun. The principle of chekhov's gun is that if you are introduced to a gun on a wall, then it needs to be fired later on. The stones were introduced but never "fired".


billionair31

I guess that's me not understanding the definition. I thought a misplaced one was something that we don't have any explanation for yet. Introduced then disappeared. Seems like finding the stones broken is firing a blank. Gun went off, just no bullet. And we at least have a comment from Will saying that it was initially intended to help Lindon learn scripting, but he chose not to add that to all the things Lindon was already learning.


caime9

Yea, not saying that Will didn't explain outside of the story, but we never figured out what they did exactly and they were never used.


MaxAvery

I feel like Will is very intentional with language. Early Lindon constantly being described in terms of hunger, emptiness, "dragon fever" etc. One that hasn't fully come to pass is whenever Lindon doesn't get something he'll "weep blood" so I'm looking forward to what happens when he and Yerin killil the Phoenix.


jasclev

In like the first chapter of unsouled he’s described as being a void


Jackalstein

That does sound interesting. I hope it’s good


Chemical_Tomorrow510

I kinda wish he'd touch on the First Elder switching places with Jaran in Unsouled


Soranic

? Wasn't Jaran in the stands during the entire encounter?


Chemical_Tomorrow510

During the Lindon/Mon Keth fight. When Jaran went to talk shit, Keth tried to punch Jaran on for the First Elder to switch places with Jaran and force Keth down.


Soranic

Ahh! Yeah that's different from regular white fox illusion techniques. Unless it was always first elder under an illusion and he just wanted to trash talk Keth. Edit. Was that the same encounter where Lindon ended up in a duel because Jaran wouldn't shut up? If so, I might owe Jaran an apology.


Chemical_Tomorrow510

I'd say that it probably wasn't an illusion because iirc Jaran still had his hands up to protect himself after the switch. And yes I believe this was the duel that came about because of Jaran opening his mouth at Mon Terith's whipping


[deleted]

Eh, easier to just make Jaran see everything 10 feet to the right then to craft everything independent of reality so even with pure illusion Jaran would think he was getting hit.


thethiefofsouls

I think the first elder could just make jaran see keth advancing to strike him, then copy and paste an illusion of his reaction on top of himself. given how weak sacred valley sacred arts are it makes more sense to show a person in different places than entirely manufacture different illusions.


[deleted]

A sufficiently powerful illusionist could easily make it work if they anticipated the confrontation before Jaran walked up.


lysanderslair

It was all illusion. Everyone including Jaran thought he was in one place when he was in another, then he dropped the illusion when Keth attacked what he thought was Jaran.


Chemical_Tomorrow510

But that doesn't really make sense, he would've had to run several ruler techniques at once to affect the different crowds and we don't see anyone outside SV do that much less inside


[deleted]

One technique that made a bunch of irons not see the real him or Jaran. Another to make Jaran see everything off center but both illusions moving things instead of changing them. A little extra showmanship to ensure Jaran walks to where the Elder was and the Elder positions where everyone sees Jaran.


[deleted]

We see Elder Whisper run a couple at once though he is a special case. Also, isn't multiple techniques a lot more likely than spatial transfer?


Chemical_Tomorrow510

It is but the whole scene just feels a little off. Probably because this was before Will had set certain rules or scales of power or something.


PathOfBlazingRapids

Feels like he just didn’t think of the exact, specific mechanics required to do that. Obviously it feels like he should be able to do it, but it doesn’t quite work out with what we know. But it’s justifiable by some theories, so it isn’t a big deal at all.


lysanderslair

Why do I need mulitiple techniques to make a baseball stadium think Bob is on first base & Dave is on second base when they are actually on the opposite bases? Make one illusion with the total new image. not a bunch of different illusions.


jasclev

Because Dave knows that he’s not standing where bob is, they would each take their own


Soranic

I don't think most of these are chekov guns people are discussing. They're so low level I can't see them playing a part now, like the white fox boundary flags.


caime9

Some aren't, and I would agree that many may be too low-level, but there have definitely been things that have been introduced to the story, but then arent really talked about again.


Soranic

> but then arent really talked about again. Instead of a chekovs gun, think of them has a Grrm seed. Something planted that ended up not being used.


caime9

Thats what chekhov's gun is from my understanding. Something planted but not used. ​ master class says >What Is Chekhov's Gun? Chekhov’s gun is a dramatic principle that suggests that details within a story or play will contribute to the overall narrative. This encourages writers to not make false promises in their narrative by including extemporaneous details that will not ultimately pay off by the last act, chapter, or conclusion.


Soranic

A chekovs gun is something that gets used. Grrms seeds aren't used later on. The white fox flags are a seed. Yerins missing high gold pill is another.


caime9

Right, thats what I meant by, "Misplaced Chekoves Gun", you can call it that, but we are talking about the same thing. The gun was loaded but never fired scenarios.


brnape

I think my issue is with the word "misplaced." A lot of these weren't misplaced, they were intentionally destroyed. For it to be misplaced it has to have some chance of coming into the larger story again in a way that matters.


caime9

I disagree. Even if intentionally destroyed, like the stones were, It was still an unfired Chekov's gun.


brnape

It was unfired, yes, but it wasn't misplaced. Wil didn't forget where it was, he threw it in the trash.


[deleted]

The fox boundaries were damaged.


Soranic

And yet Lindon carried them around until at least Blackflame. I think they were lost in Ghostwater. Because he kept them, there seems to be an assumption they'll be important later, rather than him being sentimental and nostalgic.


[deleted]

He's the kinda guy to carry everything he can at that point, because you never know what might be useful.


Soranic

He absolutely is. A proper d&d adventurer.


[deleted]

And that's why I put weight limits on everything.


Soranic

And then they buy a handy haversack.


[deleted]

> Handy haversack, Bag of holding, and Portable Hole all legendary items of extreme rarity, requiring a master craftsmen specializing in spatial artifacts, expensive and rare materials, and enough spatial authority to actually put it together. Making 1 would be an epic quest, at least in my setting.


Soranic

And in other editions they were common loot by level 8.


[deleted]

I know, but doesn't that rob you of interesting story potential? All of a sudden, you have to think about what you bring, you have to have every PC bring a different set of stuff, allowing people to have more opportunities to shine. How much loot can you carry? What if the quest item is cumbersome? So many opportunities thrown away because people want to be packrats. What if you're far away from civilization, and can't just restock? Goodberry doesn't help either, why would anyone farm in a world that has goodberry in it? What if you're going in to an environment that requires a specific consumable to survive and you can only bring a certain amount of it? Now you have a timer.


FireFerret44

* **Northstrider letting the world think he'd died.** Still not sure why he did that considering the other Monarchs probably knew he was alive. * **Dross being unable to accurately read Lindon's memories of Suriel.** This one really confused me because it's not like Suriel ever even told Lindon to keep it a secret. He immediately went and blabbed about their whole meeting to Yerin lol. * **Lindon's Soulsmithed armor**. It's possible we still see this gun fired in Waybound, but it hasn't been metnioned since Wintersteel and it doesn't seem like he really needs armor at this point. Maybe he crafts some out of a dreadgod?


kenod102818

>Northstrider letting the world think he'd died. > > Still not sure why he did that considering the other Monarchs probably knew he was alive. Not gonna lie, it feels to me like this is just Northstrider not bothering to tell anyone because that's effort, and everyone else just assumed he died. Northstrider doesn't lose anything if people think he's dead after all, since he has no territory, unlike the others.


Jackalstein

This. Plus it’s a way for the team to confirm that Lindon wasn’t lying about Suriel. He knew Northstrider was alive when he shouldn’t have.


FireFerret44

The thing that really made me take note of Northstrider's death on re-read was when all-knowing Eithan said he "had it on good authority" that Northstrider was dead. It was just strange to me that Northstrider wanted the world to believe he was dead but we've never gotten an explanation for why.


The_Wondering_Monk

Except the monarch’s act as if he’d died before the UKT


FireFerret44

> Except the monarch’s act as if he’d died before the UKT Sure but Charity thinks it could only be him keeping her out of Ghostwater, and it seems like they'd notice an effect on the hunger aura if there truly were one less Monarch. They hardly seem shocked when he comes back.


[deleted]

Lindon's armor got 'fired' in Wintersteel or maybe Uncrowned and his response was 'meh not worth it'.


AUnA1

I suspect the armor may have another round remaining. Someone, in another thread, pointed out that Lindon consumed some of Malice’s bloodline armor. On top of that, abidan have armor. Maybe he’ll ascend with a dreadgod weapon and dreadgod armor


[deleted]

The abidan cloud memories so even with some magic that allows perfect recall information doesn't alter Cradle's fate. For instance, it is mentioned that some of the symbology Suriel doesn't hide could alter the fate of the world but she doesn't hide it from Unsouled Lindon while she does need to hide it from more experienced Lindon. Dross doesn't get to specific see details about Suriel or her presence even though Lindon remembers general details about them.


turtlemenace

why is the ninecloud monarch different in the modified memory


PureQuestionHS

Isn't it indicated that the nine cloud court are performing a similar clouding effect to the one masking Suriel to hide the death of the previous monarch?


smorb42

That is just a physical mask, not something that edits memory


[deleted]

That was still a secret to all but the most powerful. Would definitely have fate-changing problems (though Lindon remembering her name kind of also changed fate some).


account312

Even the judges have armor. I don't think Lindon is overqualified.


FireFerret44

That's a really great point lol.


thethiefofsouls

If any sage/herald/monarch pulled lindons memories out and could copy abidan level scripts from them then it would fuck cradle right up. so lindon can recall it but anyone else gets confused. I think lindons armor is going to resolve in waybound. we keep being shown the gun of "lindon wants some sick armor". the skysworn armor, the armor he takes from the Seishen. and how much the akura armor is hyped up. I think he will take some form of the akura armor and perfect it to work with pure madra.


FireFerret44

I believe Suriel changed her eyes so that the runes weren't ones that could be used on Cradle.


Blimey71

Literally everything Yan Shoumei


[deleted]

Will said somewhere that there was a scene that was cut from the final fight of wintersteel between Yan and Eithan, but it was cut due to flow.


brickbatsandadiabats

Oh yeah, Lindon just eats the blood shadow and then walks away, doesn't he?


zhilia_mann

Just… everything about Cladia. And granted, we still have time on that one since she’s arriving imminently. But I swear there’s more to her than we’ve seen.


caime9

Wait.... Who???


Brief-Revolution-103

The sage of a thousand eyes. The one who 'mentors' Eithan during UKT


Ransom8918

I hope we get snippets of this as flashbacks or discussions from her. Presumably she’s leading the family to join up with Landon and gang anyway.


zhilia_mann

The Sage of a Thousand Eyes.


livingstondh

Elder Whisper is the biggest one. If he’s not the retired Adriel or the Fox Judge I’ll be surprised. Given all his buildup putting him at the level of a gold or even low level lord would be underwhelming On that note what happened with Adriel


Kamenkerov

Jai Chen having Arelius bloodline legacy now. Splitting core into even MORE pieces (forget which book discussed this, but it was basically dismissed as "hard").


PortalWombat

The core thing is dismissed by Ziel in Ghostwater because mastery of a handful of techniques is superior to gaining more.


Kamenkerov

I'm not sure those two things are in direct opposition. You could have an extra core full of blackflame...like a backup battery. This could be pretty useful as we've seen characters hit advancement ceilings with their development at any given level, but apparently the number of maxed-out cores you could have is...endless?


Ok_Worker_2940

When you split cores you dont make a 50/50, its more like a 49/49 Now lets say you split again, round it to 49/24/24 If it takes 1 month to add 1 unit worth of madra capacity to one core, in 3 months you have a +1/+1/+1, since you cant purification wheel all three the same time. Now you have 50/25/25 after 3 months. After a lot of time you could have a 100/50/50, would rather just have a 100/100 since having a third core is not onlt redundant, it turns into a unnecessary time drain.


Kamenkerov

>When you split cores you dont make a 50/50, its more like a 49/49 Source? In sacred valley, back in the dampening field, there were several lines regarding Lindon's split core and its benefits in the field that give the VERY strong impression that it actually allows for you to max out each individual core. Same with several references during his progression regarding how each individual core was - and some cores were "full" and were detected as if he was a full \[level of progression\].


Ok_Worker_2940

The source is the literal word of Will Wight. Questioner I know that splitting your core was created by the rival of the first Empty Palm-user. I just do not think that Simon and the rival are the only people in the world who have thought of this. Surely their must be others. Also, can one keep splitting their core repeatedly. I can imagine how strong Lindon could he be if he had multiple paths in his body. I'm still unclear if splitting your core doubles your madra and if it has a cost. Another thing that comes to mind is can Lindon upgrade one of his cores to jade while still having his other core at the copper-level? Will Wight No, the Heart of Twin Stars is not the only technique in the world for splitting cores. Others have done it, and I expect we'll run into them. Yes, you can split your core repeatedly. Splitting your core does not double your madra, and there's a very slight loss in energy when you split. So if you had 100 MP before the split, now you have two sources of 49 MP each. The other 2 MP are lost in the process. He can upgrade one core without the other. At the end of Soulsmith, one of his cores is Iron and the other Copper. But he's considered an Iron, because his body was upgraded. Here's something else that will be dealt with in Blackflame: an Iron core split into two doesn't make two Copper cores, it makes two very small Iron cores. Your stage of advancement is based on the quality of your madra, not the amount. https://www.abidanarchive.com/events/1/#e230


Kamenkerov

If that's the only downside, it seems negated by the fact that you can Increase your "mp," so to speak, through hesven&earth cycling. You hear all about these folks that hit "peak" of their level of advancement, so having multiple cores with lower capacity, each of which you then train to peak capacity, strikes me as massive advantage. If the only issues there are time + hard work...I mean, some of these people are stuck at same level for hundreds of years. They have the time. Seems like no-brainer.


Kamenkerov

The talented thief girl he enlisted to steal points from other teams. Did I miss what happened to her? Did she get caught and executed, causing horrific moment of pangs of responsibility and regret for Lindon? Did she steal something FAR more powerful than mere points? Did she become a star disciple of the twin-star sect? Did she ascend to become last boss?


Balmarog

What was the wandering titan eating during the scene in Reaper where all the dreadgods were getting empowered by the death of subject one? It almost sounded like one of Ozriel's population preservation centers like he set up in Limit/Harrow. The line says: "The device gave off the impression of distant lands, and the will of its creators was ingrained deep. It was meant to birth a city, or maybe revive one, and then carry it to distant worlds through the void."


Dnahelicases

Spatial madra is still something that never fully got explored. Simple Jade at most creatures have enough Authority? I feel like that would change if the story was being retold. And they exist in sacred valley but the Wei clan doesn’t know about them? Lots of Unsouled stuff never popped up again but could. The twins, mentions of paths, the elixir Eithan was making for Yerin at highgold, and refiners in their entirety. Most references in the first three books that could pop up again though are so “low level” that they become insignificant now. I’d like to see some of Eithan’s former life get explained and come back to existence. Places like the city of anvils, or other ancient buried places like the Titan found and consumed could be cool.


xxwerdxx

Spatial madra is answered directly in the Li Markuth extra scene for unsouled. It's just the valley failing to understand the way.


Soranic

Refiners are just alchemists in other cultivation stories. They make all the drugs, more of a skipped detail than a chekovs. Yerins high gold elixer was probably wasted when Eithan lost his position as patriarch because he no longer had the money to pay for it. He said as much to the group too. I'm also not sure if it would be a chekovs or not anyway, like you said, it's low level.


madjohnvane

This was my assumption. He was paying a lot of money to have something crafted, and then he lost his power and influence. Likely it was crafted still and given to someone else. This seemed obvious to me, as soon as Eithan lost status I wrote off the pill as something that would never eventuate now. Same as some of the other things people are mentioning here, like the stones from Soulsmith. I think the point was that Lindon found some presumably powerful artefacts and they got destroyed (and he almost lost Little Blue) to underline the fact that everyone knows him as the guy with the backpack but his backpack is a liability to his cool stuff, especially as he gets stronger. And then he finds himself a void key. I’m not convinced the stones served any other purpose other than to convey a sense of lost value


random7845123

Off the top of my head: Lindon’s armor living techniques (at least none of the main gang have any yet) the rooms at the base of the labyrinth what is the remainder of house Aurelius planning? (And how much is actually left outside some under lords and thousand eyes) What actually happened to the silent servants? What’s up with the storm callers and abyssal palace? Why wasn’t abyssal palace with the titan at moongrave? Since it seems like all the cults are trying to work with their dreadgod. Some more about elder whisper would be nice since he seems to both know a lot and not that much. Not all of these are really chekov’s guns and some of them are clearly going to be answered in waybound. But I would be interested in seeing them come to fruition or find out answers as the case may be.


Telewyn

Abidan presences, where they come from, and why the Vroshir don't have them.


[deleted]

I doubt the Vroshir don't have them, we most likely just haven't seen them. You flat-out can't operate on that scale with a "normal" superhuman mind, you need a presence.


Ransom8918

We’ve had POVs from Vroshir who have them. The guy Ozriel claps once he’s back had one. He checked with it to sense that his fleet’s ships were being erased.


Kelpsie

> Lindon’s armor I always hear people talk about this, but at what point in the story is it elevated to Chekhov's Gun territory, rather than just something people think would be neat? Is it just because he made a shitty set of armour?


[deleted]

I wanna know what that potion was that lindon found in eithan’s house. He needs fantastic hair to truly follow in his mentor’s footsteps


AppropriateLeather41

1. Maybe I missed something, but why Ascended Ruins are risen in book 2? 2. For some reason I always thought than Black Flame Sword that Emperor of Black Flame Empire has somehow would ended up in Lindon hands. 3. This one is weird, but how Twin Star Sect are supposed to flourish without Heaven and Earth Purification Wheel? It’s like whole point of why Lindon isn’t failure with 2 small cores?


lysanderslair

1: I always assumed it was to draw power for repairing the damage Adama's remnant did to the Labyrinth entrance at the end of Unsouled. 2: I think he is much stronger than that sword at this point. He might use the cowardly Herald remnant to make a blackflame weapon for himself. 3: Lindon had an extra small core to start and as pure aura doesn't exist he can't expand his core just by cycling aura as normal Sacred artists can. They also can use his older less efficient core expansion method of forging scales, cycling to full then absorbing the scale. Also he can still teach them HEPW. Potentially starting with normal sized core and combining one of these other methods with a Jade cycling method that works at efficiency or regeneration speed or potency might be just as useful.


kenod102818

>This one is weird, but how Twin Star Sect are supposed to flourish without Heaven and Earth Purification Wheel? It’s like whole point of why Lindon isn’t failure with 2 small cores? I mean, he could just teach them. Eithan told him to keep it a secret because a Jade can't defend himself if someone wants to pull the technique from his soul. An Overlord Sage supported by a Monarch faction doesn't have that issue, and nobody is stupid enough to go after students of the Void Sage.


AccomplishedCoffee

1. The timeline lines up with Lindon and Yerin fleeing SV so it’s almost certainly because of their actions. Most likely to gather power to repair the entrance damaged by the remnant. Pretty sure Lindon remarks in Bloodline about how well fixed-up it is. 2. It was maybe plausible that he’d get it near the start of Uncrowned, but absolutely no reason for him to get it now. He’s way too powerful, can make his own blackflame and weapons, and he doesn’t even use a sword. 3. He may well be teaching the HEPW to them. Lindon and Eithan are both done with it.


[deleted]

1. when Yerin collapsed the entrance to bury Adama, she "closed" a labyrinth entrance, and the labyrinth seems to have a system that it must have a certain number of entrances on the surface, so, when she closed one, another one popped out. 2. I have no idea why did Will so much emphasis on that sword in Underlord if he wasn't going to do something with it. So you got me there. 3. HEPW is one way of doing it, a very efficient way, my guess is that if you had a jade cycling technique that increased the size of your cores over time, and you didn't have to speedrun Cradles' power system in 5-ish years, you'd be fine, or maybe he'll tell them before he ascends.


fry0129

The plant lady from the seishen kingdom(was Meira her name) I think she was maybe originally planned to fill the role of Ziel on the team


futremaline

Lindon says something interesting about cores during the heists. If the Labrynth isn't the world's biggest graveyard, what is? Will we ever see Midnight again? Why did the Rune Queen fight the dreadgods instead of trapping them inside her time script? Even if they broke through them, if she could lure them inside successive scripts, even a few seconds could be worth years of real time with no issues


[deleted]

>Why did the Rune Queen fight the dreadgods instead of trapping them inside her time script? Even if they broke through them, if she could lure them inside successive scripts, even a few seconds could be worth years of real time with no issues It's a matter of willpower I guess, they're so much stronger, willpower wise.


AUnA1

I also suspect they were intelligent at that time and hard to lure


FireFerret44

> Lindon says something interesting about cores during the heists. I think it was confirmed by Will's brother that this was likely meant to be a joke and it just didn't land well. Lindon always thinks in terms of multiple cores so he makes a mistake and thinks someone else has multiple. There was also a typo earlier in Dreadgod that said someone had "cores" instead of a core.


Deadscale

You're gonna have to provide some examples. Others have already pointed out the spirit stones for scripting that got written out and gave way to Ziel, and spatial madra which Li Markuth used which we now know is just sacred valley's poor understanding. What are some major ones that haven't been answered by will?


caime9

There was that fire Tree filled with Wild Natural treasure. The young man with the fox blood shadow Are two off the top of my head.


caime9

The Joy Icon though that will hopefully be fired.


Deadscale

>There was that fire Tree filled with Wild Natural treasure. >The young man with the fox blood shadow >Are two off the top of my head. >The Joy Icon though that will hopefully be fired. Not to go down an entire writers hole here, but what Chekov's gun stands for is quite a debated topic already and it depends where you fall on the scale, some people argue that literally every single detail must have purpose in a story else there's no point adding it, where-as others classify the intent and emphasis an object has in a scene as being key to whether or not it applies. I'm in the latter camp, as I assume most people saying they can't think of many are in this thread, so depending on what you count as chekov's gun, the entire book is filled with them. Just to go off your example (once again from my point of view, not saying yours is wrong). The fire tree is world building, when mentioning the fire tree they also point out the pheonixs, and that the pheonixs eat the fruit from the tree, and then there's further talk of a mountain that juts up that has clouds of dark lighting, looking like a ball or little cloud and you have Dross interjecting aswell in the discussion between Mercy and Lindon talking about the ghostwater facility and it's workers related to the speech he knows about, and Mercy's home and training and life as a monarch's daughter. The purpose of the treasures were to give Lindon the right backdrop to discuss Mercy's current situation and get a bit of her backstory. These provided the right context in which he could openly talk about it while adding to the world building of Cradle and not coming off as forced, they served their purpose in the story overall. The same goes for the other examples, the Joy icon is arguably the closest of the three to what I think a Chekov's gun is, but given that it was in one of the later books and it's likely that Mercy will grab it in Waybound given how things are going this leads to another issue in that any Reaper/Dreadgod examples are kinda stuffed by the fact that Waybound isn't out yet. To point out what my biggest "chekov's gun" at the moment, it's Lindon saying the Sha member had "Cores" then saying "Sorry, slip of the tounge". This could be quite a few things and, much like placing a loaded gun on the table, it draws your attention to it because of the emphasis placed on it, so this is my biggest one currently however it could genuinly just be a slip of the tounge from Lindon, and it's likely we'll see in Waybound. I'm struggling to think of any major ones from the earlier books that haven't come back in some way that we have no good explanation for, you could argue that knowing how Eithan broke into the facilities in Skysworn is one although it's likely just down to him being Eithan, exactly how Dross is made (Dumping a construct in dream water for 50 years seems far too abstract) from Ghostwater is another and that may come up later in Waybound as we're learning more about Presences now, Eithan getting the Arcstone in Underlord although one again "Just Eithan Things". Eithan is essentially the Deux Ex Machina of Cradle for these things.


caime9

Right, I agree that not every detail needs to be used. Those were just some, off the top of my head, that (in my opinion) I thought from the amount of detail going in to them they would be used later but never were. Similar to the uncrowned scripts lindon took and all the remnants they stole from north strider. (which may be used in way bound. IDK)


[deleted]

Yes I agree the cores line is the biggest one I’m waiting on. There’s a lot of possibilities but obviously Lindon has learned something about the fundamental rules of the sacred arts. I think in one of the early books maybe Unsouled there’s a line about most people picturing their cores in the same place maybe it has something to do with that. It could also be like a separate pool for authority mental energy etc


kenod102818

>Eithan getting the Arcstone in Underlord although one again "Just Eithan Things". This one seems to have already been explained in Underlord, just hidden. After Eithan gives Lindon the stone, Cassias asks Lindon if he knew what made Eithan return to the Arelius family. This implies that Eithan didn't steal the stone, or, if he did, did so with explicit permission of the emperor, and that he got it in return for becoming head of the Arelius family again.


The_Wondering_Monk

Last line of Waybound.


caime9

Hope.


The_Wondering_Monk

Will’s way of saying “happily ever after”


caime9

OOOOOHHHH I Also just thought about those flies Yerin stole. They could be used in Waybound, but I doubt it.


caime9

OOOOHHHH another one that bothered me. The Uncrowned King's top eight scripts that he took from the corpses.


Rayat

At the end of Blackflame when Lindon discovers Eithan uses pure madra, Eithan says something like "Pure madra paths aren't are uncommon as you think". We haven't seen any indication of any other pure madra paths, and later it's implied that there aren't any.


OzrielArelius

I think that might just be contextual. Ozzy is very old and has seen thousands of worlds and different types of people. Maybe in the grand scheme of things it's not as uncommon as it is on Cradle?


kenod102818

Pure Madra doesn't exist on different worlds. Madra is unique to Cradle's energy system, aside from the few people who left Cradle for other worlds. Other worlds might have something similar within their own energy systems, but it won't be Madra. On Cradle itself though, the Sha family path could technically be considered a pure madra path, since royal madra is a mutation of pure madra.


Professional_Topic18

The Arelius Library Orb. The Oracle Sage’s reaction to it, is a bit weird.


Gingerosity244

Lindon being the exception to the rule of "advancing too fast Hurts your overall progress" is one that bothers me a lot. There are some examples of it that are excellent comic relief, such as Akura Justice losing his shit when he examines Lindon in Uncrowned. However, an egregious violation of Wight's own rule is Lindon being absolutely unharmed after breaking a high advancement soul oath. Wight foreshadows the consequences of such an error, but fails to carry out the threat because of "plot." Another one that I hope gets answered in Waybound is how Hunger aura is subtly alluded to being associated with Chaos rather than Order. Hunger aura is 1) unnatural to Cradle, 2) appeared only when sacred artists advanced far enough to strain Cradle's connection to the Way, 3) has a direction connection to the Void icon.


[deleted]

> advancing too fast Hurts your overall progress 1. Lindon had access to the greatest teacher possible, if there was one person who could safely lead you through advancement as quickly as possible, it'd be Eithan 2. I think this statement has a massive survivorship bias, the people who advance quickly most likely don't leave much of a legacy in the world before they leave, they blitz through to Archlord/herald/sage and leave, while the ones that do get stuck because they advanced without the proper foundation stick around and serve as a cautionary tale, but have an outsized impact.


FireFerret44

> However, an egregious violation of Wight's own rule is Lindon being absolutely unharmed after breaking a high advancement soul oath. I feel like that's pretty easily answered by the fact that Lindon has Dross and a restorative/cleansing path and body. Breaking the soul oath was definitely taking its toll and he would have died had he not been released, but no long-term damage was done because Lindon is just a monster whose entire persona is about getting right back up again.


brnape

True, though admittedly I found it unsatisfying for Malice to mention that and there to not even be a paragraph later of Dross correcting the issue or Lindon working to mitigate it. Their lack made it seem like Malice just didn't know what she was talking about.


CarissiK

I am still not closed on this, but **Wavedancer** (the _**no binding**_ flying sword…) The ‘no binding’ part keeps bugging me, waiting for closure (or maybe waiting for the Silent King binding - make it a _Mindsword_) Edit: ‘One minute later’ I come across this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Iteration110Cradle/comments/13dv2o5/dreadgod_a_mind_sword/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1


PlaceboJesus

The whole *flying sword* thing is a Chekhov's gun. The very first time he saw one in Unsouled, he was excited because he'd heard of stories of sacred artists standing on them to fly. And he's never once even used one as a stepping stone.


Ok_Worker_2940

But he doesnt need the sword to fly in the way q sacred valley artist would. He got it as a lord, and can just control the wind aura


fry0129

The plant lady from the seishen kingdom(was Meira her name) I think she was maybe originally planned to fill the role of Ziel on the team


[deleted]

Nope, according to Will, Jay Long was supposed to fill that role, but Will changed his mind(Maybe he made Jay too evil)


SpeckyStuff11

The comment Lindon makes in Dreadgod to the Nine Cloud Herald about his cores. First read through I skipped over it not thinking much of it. Afterwards I saw someone explain it as a spelling mistake, but on a read through again the Herald stops and ponders on this point. It's such an unusual mistake to mention to not mean something more. Like Chekhov's Gun, why include it if it has no importance?