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Make the time to read, “when he’s married to mom” by Kenneth M. Adams. If it rings or blares alarm bells make a run for it! Children of emotional incest (as in my ex’s) case are so worried about keeping their mother’s emotional boat stable they are emotionally unavailable to be married. Or insist on going to premarital counselling and talk this out with him before the I do.
1. Remove FMIL's access to wedding information. Get new links and new passwords. Create new passwords with all vendors and make it clear that no changes unless directly from you.
2. She doesn't like you. Why doesn't matter. She sounds the type who would hate ANY woman her son brought home. It's not your job to fix her unreasonable stance.
3. Just because she said it doesn't make it true. You do not know what the rest of the future ILs think. And if she poisoned that well? Do you really want to be friends with people who will hate you without provocation or proof?
4. Time to have a conversation with fiancé about your future and the role his family will play. Because it's really not reasonable for him to expect you to be bullied and abused just so he can attend a cookout with his side (for example).
5. If you want to elope - elope. See how much of your wedding money you can get back. Six weeks out - you could get most of it back. Use that money for a house downpayment, or a trip, or counseling... If you can't get the money back - you still have time to make changes that will make you happy. Uninvite the nasty jerks and invite all your college, high school, work friends you didn't have space for instead.
First of all, don't believe anything that she says about others. These JNOs love to put their own spin on things and are not above "playing" with the truth. And if what she says about others is true, it's because of what SHE said about you that caused the problem.
Secondly, I agree with the others who say to cut off her access to your wedding info. Especially because she is trying to get him to call off the wedding. Not only does she NOT deserve to have any part of the planning, I wouldn't even invite her to the wedding. NO ONE gets to come to my wedding if they're not there to be supportive!
Last but most importantly, stop giving her ammunition. You already gave her some insight in how to facilitate a break up between you and FH, telling her how stressing her son about your relationship causes dysfunction and causes fights. (This is why people on this forum advise that you NEVER go to therapy with your abuser.) Sit FH down and make him promise to communicate with you about things that are upsetting him. If he does, try not to be angry or judgmental. Tell him that you will no longer allow others to cause problems in your relationship and work on becoming one unit. Put her in her place or cut ties with her. If your FH can't learn to separate from mommy enough to dismiss what she's saying, NOW is the time for you to know that before you go any further with this relationship.
Good luck!!!
have a frank talk with your fh and let him know that you cannot continue this way. either he needs to shut down his mother or you will.
I was at this same point. it was literally shut her down or I was going. I was not going to subject myself to that for the rest of my life. he saw I was serious and he redirected her. don't put up with any of the " thats just how she is", or "you will get used to it." it is totally unnecessary to put yourself through it.
I think what im going to do is to ignore her for the run up to the wedding, there is nothing she can ruin. I have amazing support from my parents, work colleagues, friends, who are all trying to keep the spark for wedding planning alive and I really appreciate them for not letting me just live in a depressing state up till the day.
I think after the wedding I’m going to have a conversation with her. If she wants a relationship with her future and soon to be grandchildren then she needs to have a good relationship with me. This isn’t saying I’m taking her rights away from seeing them it will just be she doesn’t see them often and not unsupervised by me.
I have mentioned this to my FH and he seems to be on the same page with it, he said it’s a reasonable response to have.
Ignore your mil, the moment she acted she was not included was an act for control.
You make a new planner exclude her of everything.
In the end show to your husband and let him tame the beast.
If she says again she is not included tell her you will inform her when her presence and support is needed. Which is let’s say when the sun rises from the west or so…
SO is not ready for marriage yet. He sounds enmeshed with his narcissistic mother. Not choosing a side = not choosing YOUR side.
I suggest you get some couples counseling ASAP. Find someone who understands enmeshment. Don't get married until SO chooses YOU.
You're having panic attacks ffs! Does he not see that? I understand he sees MIL's behavior as normal and that's your biggest problem. He'll want you to accept it as normal and spend your life being bullied. Right now, he is not a safe partner.
"It's easier to dump a mama's boy than to divorce a mama's boy, and both of those are easier than trying to change a mama's boy!"
Good luck. 💜
You need to delete that shared drive. She has no business knowing where you are at for payments, planning etc.
She sounds like a complete asshole. *You said give it to you straight.*
Put her on an info diet. Tell your fiancé he’s going to need to run interference because you are to going to be treated like this.
OP, you haven't done anything. You have a jealous and manipulative MIL and that part is beyond your control.
You need to put her on an info diet and if she complains sweetly turn it around and say MIL, I know that the wedding organising has cause you stress and I don't want to put that on you so thought it was best that we just make it a surprise.
MIL is trying to provoke you, be sugary sweet when you say sorry you feel like that MIL. Do not give her the satisfaction of having you trying to explain or justify anything to her nor let her know that her behavior is succeeding in causing tension between you and FDH.
I think it will just end up that we don’t see her after the wedding.
She’s had some sort of grudge on me for a few years which I have no idea what for but her behaviour the last few months has really started to show her true colours.
We’re lucky enough that we live in a different town from her and she rarely comes to see us but it’s just concerning that if she was speaking like that on the phone when I was home but she didn’t know, how often is she doing that to my FH?
"We are Absolutely Not getting married with that woman constantly interfering with Our lives. Set her straight Permanently or we need to postpone the wedding and reconsider everything." Otherwise, there will be no end to her brazenly bold intrusions and meddling. It is better to reschedule than to live with things as they are. It is time for FH to make a definitive and irrevocable choice or find someone else who will go along/put up with FMIL's demands, intrusions, and her devious and destructive undermining. She likely may not get better, but at least she will have been given an ultimatum and will have to deal with you and FH going NC -- and know Exactly Why.
The more I read on this sub, the more I realize how lucky I've got it with my MIL. She's kind and generous, but annoying AF, especially when she acts dumb. Bit it may not be an act, lol...
1st. Do not let her steal your joy. 2nd - When she says bad things about you, say ok that's your opinion and now moving on our next item on the agenda. 3rd - MIL you do not like me and have made that very clear. I will be removing you from all things wedding related and I will see you the day of. 4th - Congrats and let FH handle his mother from here on out. Yes, MIL I am a loner and I do not want to be around you.
It sucks that you're so close to the wedding, but still better than after. Have a sit down conversation. 'She just needs to vent' isn't an excuse to badmouth you and consistently try to take control of your relationship. You don't mention the normal, non wedding planning relationship between FH and MIL, but if it means you're going to have to be around her more than once a year, listening to her talk about you however she wants, you might want to put a pause on everything eight now. Really convey how absolutely miserable her actions ha e made you, and as him what he expects once you're married. Does he think you should see her often? Once a year for a week? Is she allowed to stay at your house no matter what she says?
If he sees and appreciates the damage she does, but wants her in the wedding, you can grey rock through the wedding. Password protect your vendors, start restricting her information access. On the day, no matter what comes out of her mouth, tell everyone else to stick to the plan and steady-on. Have a relative FH trusts maybe to physically redirect her if she tries to hijack the photographer or say a speech or some of the other shockers toxic relatives have pulled. Keep a polite smile on your face when she's close and avoid her when you can. And then reframe your relationship with her after the wedding.
If FH isn't on board or wants frequent contact with his mother and expects you to follow, you have a much bigger problem on your hands, and from this subs experience, it always gets worse over the years and you will suffer mentally from it. Some of the sweetest men in the world have allowed their mother's to ruin their wives because they just don't have the ability to tell their mothers no.
I would go VVLC. Take that stress away. Let FH deal with this. He should be shutting it down by telling his mom that you two will not put up with her attitude. She needs a time out until she can be civil.
The thing is did he really do his best to shut her down? He needs to drop the rope and tel his mother that you have bent over backwards to include her in planning and that this isn't about you being controlling but is instead about her being upset that she isnt able to control the wedding. That if she can't respect you as his soon to be wife, his decisions or his marriage that she doesn't have to be included at all.
I understand this kind of problem. My mum disliked my hubby being first to me. I didn’t use these exact words but the spirit was the same. My mother backed down when she realised what her attitude could cost her. “ I chose my wife. Since you dislike my choice to the point of rude, hurtful, humiliating behaviour, it is best that you avoid contact with us. Don’t come to our wedding, don’t visit us. I feel generous because you have been my mother and will accept occasional phone calls but will hang up at any negative words or tone. My first loyalty is to the woman I love and family I’m building. It saddens me that you don’t wish to be part of my family and to miss out on special events and relationships with my future kids but I respect your wish to be an outsider. I love you and wish you well. “
If you don't nip this in the bud now it will carry on throughout your marriage and she will destroy you. Your SO really needs to step up now. He needs to make it clear that he will no longer listen to negative comments about you and if she doesn't stop then she's uninvited from the wedding. Personally I would cancel the wedding and elope.
It has nothing to do with you, and has everything to do with her. It’s pure projection, she’s losing control. She’s used to calling the shots and making the decisions for your husband, her child. And unfortunately, she still sees him as a child. She does not view him as an adult who can make his own decisions. So she’s going to criticize every decision he makes without mommy dearest, because she does not support his independence.
She’s not the bride - it’s not her venue, it’s not her dress, it’s not her cake, it’s not her music, it’s not her day of celebration. This is a day of loss for her, and that’s scaring her. So the more you involve her, the more ammo she will use against you to try and deceive her son. It’s a manipulative control tactic for emotionally immature parents. Makes me think of Gothel from Tangled, “mother knows best.” Or even Meaghan Trainor’s song “I am your mother, you listen to me.” You’re the one pulling her son away from her and her control, so you are a threat to her. The more you’re in the picture, and the closer you get to marrying her son, the closer she gets to losing a type of power she has had in her life.
At 24, you don’t need anyone’s approval. So stop involving her, and stop trying to win her over. It’s not going to work, no matter how lovely you are. I’m sorry if that’s harsh, but again, it’s not about you. Now imagine - if you think it’s hard planning a wedding, just wait for when y’all bring children into the family. Then she really loses control, because it’s not her child. It’s only going to get harder. So now is the time to guarantee that you and SO are on the same page. You come first now, not mommy. You are to be his bride, his wife, his priority, and potentially the future mother of his children. That means birthdays, Mother’s Day, holidays, will all be celebrations for YOUR unit (you, SO, potential future children) to practice yourselves. Do you see now how much she’s losing? Her life with her son is flashing before her eyes. Time for y’all to make your own decisions and build your own team, just like she did with her spouse back in the day. Everyone gets one life, so live it how you want. Regardless of whether or not she’s on your side. You don’t need people to like you to be happy. It’s about you and SO ONLY now, the 2 of you need to remember that.
The other comments here are great. I'm also wondering why your fiance is telling you all this shit. One could rightfully argue that you have a right to know what a bitch his mom is being, but one could also rightfully argue that if he isn't going to DO anything about it, he should leave you out of it. RuPaul says, "what other people think of me is none of my business." I would ask your fiance why he told you about the conversation anyway. Ask what he wants *you* to do about it. Ask what *he* wants to do about it. Ultimately this is his batshit mother and therefore his responsibility.
Your MIL doesn't want to feel included and doesn't want you to make her happy. She wants to be miserable and nothing you can do will change that. I went through this with my JNMIL when it came to our wedding and once I realized that none of my compromises were making her happy, I stopped trying. I realized that she was going to be unhappy no matter what I did, so I had two options: 1. I could bend over backwards, make myself miserable, and she would be unhappy, or, 2. I could do what I want, make choices I was happy with, and she would be unhappy. Once I realized the outcome was the same, I stopped trying. I had the benefit of being a few years older than you, and my confidence grew with age, so I don't envy you. Sorry this vile woman is behaving this way. Good luck.
Stop including her and when she complains say this : I’m sorry, I must have misunderstood, I was under the impression you were not a fan of mine so to lesson the stress for you about the wedding you don’t want to happen I went about my own business. Make sure there are people around so she cannot twist your words, preferably FH. Finish with : If you would like to work out the problem you have with me by all means have a seat and discuss, otherwise wedding planning is stressful enough so I’ll be on my merry way. Smile while saying it! Good luck my friend, I had this issue and said something similar…felt really good!
I haven't read the other advice but I will tell you that I've been married almost 20 years, our wedding was full of family drama, there are so many things I would have done differently. But I am JUST NOW realizing that my family consists of me and my husband. Everyone else is just relatives. That's how I look at it, doesn't mean it's right. I think this is the occasion to observe how people behave and how they treat you so you can be prepared for how to handle them in the future. It seems weddings are rarely about the bride and groom sadly. Try to find a way to enjoy the day and don't worry too much about what others are thinking. If they are familiar with your future MIL they know to take what she says with a bucket of salt anyway haha
I'm so sorry.
I read your posts elsewhere for more context about your fiancé and the relationships. He needs to worry less about upsetting the apple cart w his mom and more about you. He does worry about you but needs to do more.
One way would be to tell his mom that if she says anything negative about you or the wedding plans, then he is ending the conversation by walking away or hanging up. Refuse to be her audience. As both his sisters are either LC or NC with MIL, I would be shocked if most of the family didn't have at least some idea that MIL is the problem and is fine with you. Keep that in mind.
Stop trying to include her and put her on an information diet. Nothing will make her happy as she is determined to be miserable. If she's on an information diet, then she can't keep weaponizing details against you. When she criticizes your plans "I'm sorry you feel that way, we love it" or simply change the subject altogether. Hopefully pushing her back out of it will help you regain some excitement.
First, I'm so sorry you're going through this when it should be one of the happiest times of your life. Second, I think if she "vents" to him again, he should ask her for any examples of times you were "selfish, unreasonable, controlling, etc.." When she has none, he needs to tell her that's the last time she will speak about you that way and if she does it again, she will be out of your lives for the foreseeable future. Hes choosing you as his life partner. Mommy isn't number one anymore and he needs to protect you. I hope it gets better! Stay strong ❤️
I think you realize now that "bending over backwards" to include her in the process was a mistake. You treated her the way you, as a nice and considerate person, would want to be treated. But she is not a nice or considerate person, or at least she has chosen not to act that way towards you.
A few points:
-FH shouldn't shut down her down when she badmouths you. Instead he should hang up/walk away/end the conversation. He is an adult that has made a choice to be with you. By responding to her badmouthing, even if he is defending you, he is feeding her delusion that her opinion matters and that his decisions are open for discussion.
-If FH finds it difficult to talk with her because she doesn't listen, then that is 100% a reason not to have a conversation with her.
-You have not done anything to her to give her this type of reaction. She is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that her son is an adult and you have supplanted her as the woman at the center of his life. This is her problem, not yours. She is dealing with this in a childish and selfish way, trying to smear you as a way to regain a sense of control and status.
-She says that she "needed to vent". Okay, sometimes people need to vent. But who you choose to vent to matters. Only a very stupid and immature person will choose to vent to her son about what she doesn't like about the son's fiancée. If she needs to talk, she should be talking to her husband or her friends or her therapist or her clergyperson. The truth is, she was not venting. That was just an excuse she made up after the fact when she couldn't convince DH to cancel the wedding.
-FH didn't really do you any favors by repeating all of the crappy things MIL said about you. I don't generally recommend that couple keep secrets from each other, and I understand that he needs support dealing with his difficult mother, but maybe it would have been better if he didn't tell you everything MIL said about you.
"If FH finds it difficult to talk with her because she doesn't listen, then that is 100% a reason not to have a conversation with her." This times 1000! Some people are just people you cannot have a functional conversation with. They will only understand boundaries and consequences.
Some husbands will say they are “in the middle” or feel “caught” in the middle. Ask your fiancé how he feels when his mother shit talks his choice of a life partner. Ask if he feels “caught in the middle”. If he does, then postpone the wedding. He isn’t ready to make the commitment of marriage. If he feels caught in the middle, it’s because he hasn’t chosen a side. If he hasn’t chosen you, then he’s not 100% confident in his choice to marry you. Don’t marry someone who isn’t 100% sure that you are the best thing that ever happened to him, and is ready, willing, and able to tell his mother that he will not put up with her BS and if she is asking him to choose, he chooses you, now and every time.
This is an excellent point!
Being "caught in the middle" implies not making a choice. This can be applied to many situations where I have heard this.
And in this case it is very important SO chooses OP, otherwise the marriage makes no sense.
Oh and eloping would not resolve the issue with SO choices.
There are two parts that need to be addressed. The first is, where does your FH see her place in your lives together? Is he going to support you and your children, and keep her away from all of you? And is he going to get better at shutting her down? It's all very good that he's supportive and trying his best - but that best isn't good enough, because she's still being horrible to you. Is he going to support you and your future children going NC when she become too much to deal with?
Stop sharing information with her, and stop trying to appease her. Take her off the calendar, don't invite her to anything, and just drop the rope and walk away. FH can deal with her, and he doesn't need to be telling you everything that comes out of her mouth. Try to make connections with other family members so that they aren't hearing everything from FMIL and can feel comfortable talking to your directly. Just because she says the family doesn't like you, that doesn't mean it's true.
She may well be lying about the other relatives. They are probably busy with their own lives and haven’t given you two seconds thought other than “oh they’re getting married isn’t that nice”. It’s a very common tactic for bullies to try to isolate and triangulate this way and also to seem like their own opinions are more valid than they are.
If these other relatives are important to your husband, I’d suggest working on your relationships with them separately from MIL. Invite them for brunch or whatever but cut MIL out of the communication loop with them.
She isn’t going to like you no matter what you do. It’s not personal, it would be anyone her son is marrying. Now that you know that, you are free to do what you want. No need to struggle to accommodate her or work around her schedule for things or go out of your way to please her. She wants to be involved in selecting your first house to buy come visit when you have a baby? DH can tell her, “Oh Mom, we wouldn’t dream of expecting you to do that. We know how you feel about OP and that you’d be miserable the whole time. We appreciate you being willing to make the sacrifice but we’ll get by. We want you to be happy.”
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Make the time to read, “when he’s married to mom” by Kenneth M. Adams. If it rings or blares alarm bells make a run for it! Children of emotional incest (as in my ex’s) case are so worried about keeping their mother’s emotional boat stable they are emotionally unavailable to be married. Or insist on going to premarital counselling and talk this out with him before the I do.
1. Remove FMIL's access to wedding information. Get new links and new passwords. Create new passwords with all vendors and make it clear that no changes unless directly from you. 2. She doesn't like you. Why doesn't matter. She sounds the type who would hate ANY woman her son brought home. It's not your job to fix her unreasonable stance. 3. Just because she said it doesn't make it true. You do not know what the rest of the future ILs think. And if she poisoned that well? Do you really want to be friends with people who will hate you without provocation or proof? 4. Time to have a conversation with fiancé about your future and the role his family will play. Because it's really not reasonable for him to expect you to be bullied and abused just so he can attend a cookout with his side (for example). 5. If you want to elope - elope. See how much of your wedding money you can get back. Six weeks out - you could get most of it back. Use that money for a house downpayment, or a trip, or counseling... If you can't get the money back - you still have time to make changes that will make you happy. Uninvite the nasty jerks and invite all your college, high school, work friends you didn't have space for instead.
Elope then move across the country. That'll teach her!
First of all, don't believe anything that she says about others. These JNOs love to put their own spin on things and are not above "playing" with the truth. And if what she says about others is true, it's because of what SHE said about you that caused the problem. Secondly, I agree with the others who say to cut off her access to your wedding info. Especially because she is trying to get him to call off the wedding. Not only does she NOT deserve to have any part of the planning, I wouldn't even invite her to the wedding. NO ONE gets to come to my wedding if they're not there to be supportive! Last but most importantly, stop giving her ammunition. You already gave her some insight in how to facilitate a break up between you and FH, telling her how stressing her son about your relationship causes dysfunction and causes fights. (This is why people on this forum advise that you NEVER go to therapy with your abuser.) Sit FH down and make him promise to communicate with you about things that are upsetting him. If he does, try not to be angry or judgmental. Tell him that you will no longer allow others to cause problems in your relationship and work on becoming one unit. Put her in her place or cut ties with her. If your FH can't learn to separate from mommy enough to dismiss what she's saying, NOW is the time for you to know that before you go any further with this relationship. Good luck!!!
have a frank talk with your fh and let him know that you cannot continue this way. either he needs to shut down his mother or you will. I was at this same point. it was literally shut her down or I was going. I was not going to subject myself to that for the rest of my life. he saw I was serious and he redirected her. don't put up with any of the " thats just how she is", or "you will get used to it." it is totally unnecessary to put yourself through it.
I think what im going to do is to ignore her for the run up to the wedding, there is nothing she can ruin. I have amazing support from my parents, work colleagues, friends, who are all trying to keep the spark for wedding planning alive and I really appreciate them for not letting me just live in a depressing state up till the day. I think after the wedding I’m going to have a conversation with her. If she wants a relationship with her future and soon to be grandchildren then she needs to have a good relationship with me. This isn’t saying I’m taking her rights away from seeing them it will just be she doesn’t see them often and not unsupervised by me. I have mentioned this to my FH and he seems to be on the same page with it, he said it’s a reasonable response to have.
Ignore your mil, the moment she acted she was not included was an act for control. You make a new planner exclude her of everything. In the end show to your husband and let him tame the beast. If she says again she is not included tell her you will inform her when her presence and support is needed. Which is let’s say when the sun rises from the west or so…
SO is not ready for marriage yet. He sounds enmeshed with his narcissistic mother. Not choosing a side = not choosing YOUR side. I suggest you get some couples counseling ASAP. Find someone who understands enmeshment. Don't get married until SO chooses YOU. You're having panic attacks ffs! Does he not see that? I understand he sees MIL's behavior as normal and that's your biggest problem. He'll want you to accept it as normal and spend your life being bullied. Right now, he is not a safe partner. "It's easier to dump a mama's boy than to divorce a mama's boy, and both of those are easier than trying to change a mama's boy!" Good luck. 💜
I don’t think she’s a narcissist, you have to be smart and be 1 step ahead to be a narcissist. She’s not the sharpest tool in the box
My JNM is a covert narc. She is manipulative but not all that smart. Don't confuse the two.
You need to delete that shared drive. She has no business knowing where you are at for payments, planning etc. She sounds like a complete asshole. *You said give it to you straight.* Put her on an info diet. Tell your fiancé he’s going to need to run interference because you are to going to be treated like this.
OP, you haven't done anything. You have a jealous and manipulative MIL and that part is beyond your control. You need to put her on an info diet and if she complains sweetly turn it around and say MIL, I know that the wedding organising has cause you stress and I don't want to put that on you so thought it was best that we just make it a surprise. MIL is trying to provoke you, be sugary sweet when you say sorry you feel like that MIL. Do not give her the satisfaction of having you trying to explain or justify anything to her nor let her know that her behavior is succeeding in causing tension between you and FDH.
I think it will just end up that we don’t see her after the wedding. She’s had some sort of grudge on me for a few years which I have no idea what for but her behaviour the last few months has really started to show her true colours. We’re lucky enough that we live in a different town from her and she rarely comes to see us but it’s just concerning that if she was speaking like that on the phone when I was home but she didn’t know, how often is she doing that to my FH?
Yep my MIL behaved terribly in the run up to our wedding! Now we rarely see her.
"We are Absolutely Not getting married with that woman constantly interfering with Our lives. Set her straight Permanently or we need to postpone the wedding and reconsider everything." Otherwise, there will be no end to her brazenly bold intrusions and meddling. It is better to reschedule than to live with things as they are. It is time for FH to make a definitive and irrevocable choice or find someone else who will go along/put up with FMIL's demands, intrusions, and her devious and destructive undermining. She likely may not get better, but at least she will have been given an ultimatum and will have to deal with you and FH going NC -- and know Exactly Why.
This. I would threaten to postpone the wedding until FH starts advocating for his FW and shutting his mother all the way down.
As long as she wouldn't be happy, if the wedding is postponed. I'm sure my MIL would have been delighted lol.
The more I read on this sub, the more I realize how lucky I've got it with my MIL. She's kind and generous, but annoying AF, especially when she acts dumb. Bit it may not be an act, lol...
I'll third this!
1st. Do not let her steal your joy. 2nd - When she says bad things about you, say ok that's your opinion and now moving on our next item on the agenda. 3rd - MIL you do not like me and have made that very clear. I will be removing you from all things wedding related and I will see you the day of. 4th - Congrats and let FH handle his mother from here on out. Yes, MIL I am a loner and I do not want to be around you.
I think you should both read this. https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/xOpxR9numb
Very good.
It sucks that you're so close to the wedding, but still better than after. Have a sit down conversation. 'She just needs to vent' isn't an excuse to badmouth you and consistently try to take control of your relationship. You don't mention the normal, non wedding planning relationship between FH and MIL, but if it means you're going to have to be around her more than once a year, listening to her talk about you however she wants, you might want to put a pause on everything eight now. Really convey how absolutely miserable her actions ha e made you, and as him what he expects once you're married. Does he think you should see her often? Once a year for a week? Is she allowed to stay at your house no matter what she says? If he sees and appreciates the damage she does, but wants her in the wedding, you can grey rock through the wedding. Password protect your vendors, start restricting her information access. On the day, no matter what comes out of her mouth, tell everyone else to stick to the plan and steady-on. Have a relative FH trusts maybe to physically redirect her if she tries to hijack the photographer or say a speech or some of the other shockers toxic relatives have pulled. Keep a polite smile on your face when she's close and avoid her when you can. And then reframe your relationship with her after the wedding. If FH isn't on board or wants frequent contact with his mother and expects you to follow, you have a much bigger problem on your hands, and from this subs experience, it always gets worse over the years and you will suffer mentally from it. Some of the sweetest men in the world have allowed their mother's to ruin their wives because they just don't have the ability to tell their mothers no.
Great advice. I always say "momma's boys are a very strange breed"
I would go VVLC. Take that stress away. Let FH deal with this. He should be shutting it down by telling his mom that you two will not put up with her attitude. She needs a time out until she can be civil.
The thing is did he really do his best to shut her down? He needs to drop the rope and tel his mother that you have bent over backwards to include her in planning and that this isn't about you being controlling but is instead about her being upset that she isnt able to control the wedding. That if she can't respect you as his soon to be wife, his decisions or his marriage that she doesn't have to be included at all.
Exactly that.
I understand this kind of problem. My mum disliked my hubby being first to me. I didn’t use these exact words but the spirit was the same. My mother backed down when she realised what her attitude could cost her. “ I chose my wife. Since you dislike my choice to the point of rude, hurtful, humiliating behaviour, it is best that you avoid contact with us. Don’t come to our wedding, don’t visit us. I feel generous because you have been my mother and will accept occasional phone calls but will hang up at any negative words or tone. My first loyalty is to the woman I love and family I’m building. It saddens me that you don’t wish to be part of my family and to miss out on special events and relationships with my future kids but I respect your wish to be an outsider. I love you and wish you well. “
Perfectly stated.
If you don't nip this in the bud now it will carry on throughout your marriage and she will destroy you. Your SO really needs to step up now. He needs to make it clear that he will no longer listen to negative comments about you and if she doesn't stop then she's uninvited from the wedding. Personally I would cancel the wedding and elope.
If OP doesn’t nip it it’ll get so much worse if kids come into the picture.
It has nothing to do with you, and has everything to do with her. It’s pure projection, she’s losing control. She’s used to calling the shots and making the decisions for your husband, her child. And unfortunately, she still sees him as a child. She does not view him as an adult who can make his own decisions. So she’s going to criticize every decision he makes without mommy dearest, because she does not support his independence. She’s not the bride - it’s not her venue, it’s not her dress, it’s not her cake, it’s not her music, it’s not her day of celebration. This is a day of loss for her, and that’s scaring her. So the more you involve her, the more ammo she will use against you to try and deceive her son. It’s a manipulative control tactic for emotionally immature parents. Makes me think of Gothel from Tangled, “mother knows best.” Or even Meaghan Trainor’s song “I am your mother, you listen to me.” You’re the one pulling her son away from her and her control, so you are a threat to her. The more you’re in the picture, and the closer you get to marrying her son, the closer she gets to losing a type of power she has had in her life. At 24, you don’t need anyone’s approval. So stop involving her, and stop trying to win her over. It’s not going to work, no matter how lovely you are. I’m sorry if that’s harsh, but again, it’s not about you. Now imagine - if you think it’s hard planning a wedding, just wait for when y’all bring children into the family. Then she really loses control, because it’s not her child. It’s only going to get harder. So now is the time to guarantee that you and SO are on the same page. You come first now, not mommy. You are to be his bride, his wife, his priority, and potentially the future mother of his children. That means birthdays, Mother’s Day, holidays, will all be celebrations for YOUR unit (you, SO, potential future children) to practice yourselves. Do you see now how much she’s losing? Her life with her son is flashing before her eyes. Time for y’all to make your own decisions and build your own team, just like she did with her spouse back in the day. Everyone gets one life, so live it how you want. Regardless of whether or not she’s on your side. You don’t need people to like you to be happy. It’s about you and SO ONLY now, the 2 of you need to remember that.
The other comments here are great. I'm also wondering why your fiance is telling you all this shit. One could rightfully argue that you have a right to know what a bitch his mom is being, but one could also rightfully argue that if he isn't going to DO anything about it, he should leave you out of it. RuPaul says, "what other people think of me is none of my business." I would ask your fiance why he told you about the conversation anyway. Ask what he wants *you* to do about it. Ask what *he* wants to do about it. Ultimately this is his batshit mother and therefore his responsibility.
Your MIL doesn't want to feel included and doesn't want you to make her happy. She wants to be miserable and nothing you can do will change that. I went through this with my JNMIL when it came to our wedding and once I realized that none of my compromises were making her happy, I stopped trying. I realized that she was going to be unhappy no matter what I did, so I had two options: 1. I could bend over backwards, make myself miserable, and she would be unhappy, or, 2. I could do what I want, make choices I was happy with, and she would be unhappy. Once I realized the outcome was the same, I stopped trying. I had the benefit of being a few years older than you, and my confidence grew with age, so I don't envy you. Sorry this vile woman is behaving this way. Good luck.
Stop including her and when she complains say this : I’m sorry, I must have misunderstood, I was under the impression you were not a fan of mine so to lesson the stress for you about the wedding you don’t want to happen I went about my own business. Make sure there are people around so she cannot twist your words, preferably FH. Finish with : If you would like to work out the problem you have with me by all means have a seat and discuss, otherwise wedding planning is stressful enough so I’ll be on my merry way. Smile while saying it! Good luck my friend, I had this issue and said something similar…felt really good!
I haven't read the other advice but I will tell you that I've been married almost 20 years, our wedding was full of family drama, there are so many things I would have done differently. But I am JUST NOW realizing that my family consists of me and my husband. Everyone else is just relatives. That's how I look at it, doesn't mean it's right. I think this is the occasion to observe how people behave and how they treat you so you can be prepared for how to handle them in the future. It seems weddings are rarely about the bride and groom sadly. Try to find a way to enjoy the day and don't worry too much about what others are thinking. If they are familiar with your future MIL they know to take what she says with a bucket of salt anyway haha
I'm so sorry. I read your posts elsewhere for more context about your fiancé and the relationships. He needs to worry less about upsetting the apple cart w his mom and more about you. He does worry about you but needs to do more. One way would be to tell his mom that if she says anything negative about you or the wedding plans, then he is ending the conversation by walking away or hanging up. Refuse to be her audience. As both his sisters are either LC or NC with MIL, I would be shocked if most of the family didn't have at least some idea that MIL is the problem and is fine with you. Keep that in mind. Stop trying to include her and put her on an information diet. Nothing will make her happy as she is determined to be miserable. If she's on an information diet, then she can't keep weaponizing details against you. When she criticizes your plans "I'm sorry you feel that way, we love it" or simply change the subject altogether. Hopefully pushing her back out of it will help you regain some excitement.
Information diet. I like that! That's what I'm going to have to do with my own mother.
First, I'm so sorry you're going through this when it should be one of the happiest times of your life. Second, I think if she "vents" to him again, he should ask her for any examples of times you were "selfish, unreasonable, controlling, etc.." When she has none, he needs to tell her that's the last time she will speak about you that way and if she does it again, she will be out of your lives for the foreseeable future. Hes choosing you as his life partner. Mommy isn't number one anymore and he needs to protect you. I hope it gets better! Stay strong ❤️
I think you realize now that "bending over backwards" to include her in the process was a mistake. You treated her the way you, as a nice and considerate person, would want to be treated. But she is not a nice or considerate person, or at least she has chosen not to act that way towards you. A few points: -FH shouldn't shut down her down when she badmouths you. Instead he should hang up/walk away/end the conversation. He is an adult that has made a choice to be with you. By responding to her badmouthing, even if he is defending you, he is feeding her delusion that her opinion matters and that his decisions are open for discussion. -If FH finds it difficult to talk with her because she doesn't listen, then that is 100% a reason not to have a conversation with her. -You have not done anything to her to give her this type of reaction. She is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that her son is an adult and you have supplanted her as the woman at the center of his life. This is her problem, not yours. She is dealing with this in a childish and selfish way, trying to smear you as a way to regain a sense of control and status. -She says that she "needed to vent". Okay, sometimes people need to vent. But who you choose to vent to matters. Only a very stupid and immature person will choose to vent to her son about what she doesn't like about the son's fiancée. If she needs to talk, she should be talking to her husband or her friends or her therapist or her clergyperson. The truth is, she was not venting. That was just an excuse she made up after the fact when she couldn't convince DH to cancel the wedding. -FH didn't really do you any favors by repeating all of the crappy things MIL said about you. I don't generally recommend that couple keep secrets from each other, and I understand that he needs support dealing with his difficult mother, but maybe it would have been better if he didn't tell you everything MIL said about you.
"If FH finds it difficult to talk with her because she doesn't listen, then that is 100% a reason not to have a conversation with her." This times 1000! Some people are just people you cannot have a functional conversation with. They will only understand boundaries and consequences.
Some husbands will say they are “in the middle” or feel “caught” in the middle. Ask your fiancé how he feels when his mother shit talks his choice of a life partner. Ask if he feels “caught in the middle”. If he does, then postpone the wedding. He isn’t ready to make the commitment of marriage. If he feels caught in the middle, it’s because he hasn’t chosen a side. If he hasn’t chosen you, then he’s not 100% confident in his choice to marry you. Don’t marry someone who isn’t 100% sure that you are the best thing that ever happened to him, and is ready, willing, and able to tell his mother that he will not put up with her BS and if she is asking him to choose, he chooses you, now and every time.
This is an excellent point! Being "caught in the middle" implies not making a choice. This can be applied to many situations where I have heard this. And in this case it is very important SO chooses OP, otherwise the marriage makes no sense. Oh and eloping would not resolve the issue with SO choices.
There are two parts that need to be addressed. The first is, where does your FH see her place in your lives together? Is he going to support you and your children, and keep her away from all of you? And is he going to get better at shutting her down? It's all very good that he's supportive and trying his best - but that best isn't good enough, because she's still being horrible to you. Is he going to support you and your future children going NC when she become too much to deal with? Stop sharing information with her, and stop trying to appease her. Take her off the calendar, don't invite her to anything, and just drop the rope and walk away. FH can deal with her, and he doesn't need to be telling you everything that comes out of her mouth. Try to make connections with other family members so that they aren't hearing everything from FMIL and can feel comfortable talking to your directly. Just because she says the family doesn't like you, that doesn't mean it's true.
She may well be lying about the other relatives. They are probably busy with their own lives and haven’t given you two seconds thought other than “oh they’re getting married isn’t that nice”. It’s a very common tactic for bullies to try to isolate and triangulate this way and also to seem like their own opinions are more valid than they are. If these other relatives are important to your husband, I’d suggest working on your relationships with them separately from MIL. Invite them for brunch or whatever but cut MIL out of the communication loop with them. She isn’t going to like you no matter what you do. It’s not personal, it would be anyone her son is marrying. Now that you know that, you are free to do what you want. No need to struggle to accommodate her or work around her schedule for things or go out of your way to please her. She wants to be involved in selecting your first house to buy come visit when you have a baby? DH can tell her, “Oh Mom, we wouldn’t dream of expecting you to do that. We know how you feel about OP and that you’d be miserable the whole time. We appreciate you being willing to make the sacrifice but we’ll get by. We want you to be happy.”