I really like the film, it’s beautifully shot. I find poor writing to be the main problem with most of the Daniel Craig films. To me, CR and Skyfall are the two that shine.
NTTD is a fun watch. I don’t mind the ending, it’s a fresh take for the series & prob the only time they will ever do it. My main issue with it is poor use of villain, and pretty forced chemistry between Bond and Madeleine. I think both actors are great and do well, I just never thought of Madeleine as the love of his life potential.
Skyfall suffers from poor writing (or at least execution) of the final third. Silva is ten steps ahead until the final act and then it turns into Home Alone. That’s always kept Skyfall a peg down from great for me. Still better than everything that followed it though.
I miss when big blockbusters could have romantic melodrama played totally straight.
Like big, swelling music while the main characters confess their love and shit, like why not. Add on them finally returning to the classic "Go to this hidden island, find the bad guy, confront him, and kill him" plot beat for the final act, and yeah, I'm in
It felt like an actual mix of Casino's Grit and 90s Bond maximalism with some corny (but investing) melodrama mixed in. I loved it, but I would never say it's better than Skyfall or Casino.
I think that's actually a great point. I've seen soooo many people criticize this (and some of Craig's other Bond films) as melodramatic. I never saw it that way. For me it works, because of how straight it plays the drama.
Personally I strongly dislike it. Thought it had the worst villain in the series (tied with Graves) and thought it didn't earn its indulgent length. While I'm not opposed to killing Bond as a concept, the way it happened was manipulative. It's the only one in the series I have no interest in rewatching.
There were positives. Cuba was a strong sequence and the opening chase looked good too. Blofeld controlling Spectre with an android eye was so wacky that I kinda love it. The heist of the nanobots was also a good sequence. And I did appreciate the callback to FYEO when Bond crushes that guy with a Land Rover.
Skyfall is one of my favorite stand-alone Bond films. It’s so self contained and is very well balanced. *slightly* below Casino Royale for Craig but one of the better Bond films IMO of the last 30 years
Skyfall has an exceptional ending. Inverts the tropes smartly, looks amazing, and leaves us with a rejuvenated Bond, ready to go back to basics.
They just couldn't follow up.
Worst villain ever. But I disagree on the ending. It isn't terrible...it's absolute shit. I had to search for a post about this just so I could bitch about it to vent.
I think there’s better Bond movies out there, but this movies gets WAY too much intense hate in the Bond fan base. Although I think casual audiences enjoy it quite a bit
I think you’re right. The word I might use, instead of “underrated”, is “divisive”. I think it’s absolutely one of the most polarising Bond movies out there, in that most people seem either to love it or absolutely hate it. I’m in the camp that likes it (mostly for its great visuals, excellent performances and throwbacks to classic concepts like a villain’s island lair) but it’s not top tier for me.
I wouldn't say underrated, I'd say overhated.
On it's own merits - it's a mixed bag. Craig returns to autopilot mode - same as Spectre & the villain is lame with a silly plan.
But the actions sequences & cinematography is much improved from Spectre, you feel the full weight of every scene & set.
There is also a better understanding of how to write a compelling story. It does rely on the tried & tested trope of 'bad guy has links to the past' but inverts it entirely from Spectre. Whereas in Spectre it kept saying over & over that Bond is the centrepiece, NTTD instead goes for Bond as the unexpected factor. That makes for a much more entertaining experience - as Bond ruins our villains plans by being involved when everyone else had written him off.
I'd say there has a fair bit of humour that lands & NTTD takes itself less seriously than previous entries - which works to it's favour with the gargantuan runtime.
But there's absolutely no way round the ending. It's polarising. You'll either love it or hate it. I'm in the camp that hates it. Not because Bond dies - but it feels like a dirty way to end his character to me. My ideal Bond goes out in a blaze of glory with a smirk. Mission accomplished.
Whereas here Bond has to suicide by missile because nanotechnology makes him unable to touch his family? I dunno - if you'd told me in 2006 that's how Craig goes out, I'd burst out laughing. It's so far away from the Bond we've been with - a guy who knows every situation could be his last & somewhat expects it to be.
It's better than Spectre & Quantum of Solace - a film that failed the franchise & a film that failed to be finished - but not better than Skyfall & Casino Royale - 2 films that delve into the psychology of our charming sociopath whilst having a great backdrop of spy mystery & cool fights.
I expect this film to be judged solely off of Bond's death, in the same way Spectre is judged solely off of Blofeld's inclusion & link to the franchise.
The movie itself is rated moderately high on most critic and review sites. Therefore it can’t really be regarded as underrated.
I think the movie attempts to do a lot and succeeds at very little. The script has too many cooks in the kitchen, the movie has very poor pacing after Cuba and the ending is polarising.
I honestly think the ending is terrible and the OHMSS references are unearned.
The movie has beautiful cinematography and the Cuba sequence is fun… but that’s the only positives I can think for it.
Well, I don’t think the OP was talking about the critics. More so about Bond fandom, I would imagine, where this movie is quite hated by a lot of people.
I can agree that it had a flawed script, that tries to do too much, but I disagree that it succeeds at little. And I don't really get all the hate for the ending. Personally, I feel like that part comes from people just not wanting the character to be killed off. Which is totally fine and legitimate, but it's more so an ideological base of criticism than a cinematic one.
I’d be curious to allow polls again temporarily just to see how fans here feel about it right now. After release, it seemed lost people were praising it to high heaven, but now I wonder if the active users here are mostly hardcore fans who think it’s mediocre or terrible.
We could go further than that and do an updated ranking for all of the films. Since Bond news are dry at the moment, I would expect the voters to be the more hardcore fans. If we do it, it'd definitely be after Project Soundtrack wraps up and depending on if Project Wardrobe happens.
What do you think u/Sneaky_Bond?
I would love to see some kind of definitive ranking of all the films for the sub. Honestly, I was actually thinking of doing something like that, involving asking everybody for their rating of each film out of ten, then averaging them all together to get a number. If you or anyone else has a better method, however, that would be fine. Let me know if you want someone to be in charge of that project.
I like the idea, but I might do it a little differently, like have people submit their full rankings into a Google sheet or something, and order each film by their average placement. Might also be interesting to know the standard deviation of each film, highlighting the most polarizing ones.
I suspect the results might be unsurprising, though, like CR, GE, Skyfall, Goldfinger, and TSWLM being the top five. So it might be really interesting to attempt a weighted average for each film, based on variously weighted categories. I did this for myself and posted the results a while back, and you could easily do it by having people fill out a Google Form to rate each category out of 10, and analyze the results. More work and likely fewer participants, however.
I would be fine with that, as we were recently discussing possibilities for future community events. I'm also okay with a one-off NTTD poll. Moderators still have the option of posting polls, right?
u/Cyborg800_2004 I would just ask people to select where they currently rank it amongst the EON films: 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 20-25. I feel like that paints a more accurate picture than a numerical rating.
But I’m open to better or more creative ideas.
had flaws but still good, I'd choose it over SPECTRE
the main flaws it had for me were the villains, a little bit of the pacing, and I get it could've been more GRAND for the last bond film.
this pretty much sums it up. overall i liked it, 7.5/10. not by any means a bad movie and a decent Bond movie at that. could it have been better? sure. was the ending the optimal way to go out? arguably not. but following Spectre I thought it tied the end of the Craig era together well enough to satisfy me.
My opinion is they did Felix dirty. He deserved way better than to die because of that little weasel (though Bond’s line when he kills the weasel is beautiful).
Conflicted, I really enjoyed the movie but would’ve liked a less dour ending. Spectre was a better sendoff for Craig’s Bond in all honesty.
The Craig story arc was interesting but I don’t want to see anything like it again for a long time. Bond can be dark but make each film self contained again.
I thought Ana de Armas’ character and scenes with bond were the best part, then even she just disappears lol. It was very underwhelming and felt rushed for how long it took to come out
I enjoyed the film, the ending stuck with me for weeks after it and I haven't had many films do that before.
The part when he is driving with Mathilde & Madeleine in the car and running from Safin's men. I really wanted them to escape. I just seen it as a Dad doing everything he could to keep his daughter safe.
Honestly if Bond didn’t get blown to bits at the end and we had a more traditional fun ending I would rate it pretty high. I had fun with it but the ending killed it for me.
Indeed! It felt forced. Like it felt Bond didn’t have to tell them to send the missiles right then and why would he just give up on trying to find a cure? Or wouldn’t an EMP work to kill the nanos stuff in his blood?
Why forced? What would be a better ending in your opinion?
I agree that they gave up a bit too easily on the idea of removing the nanobots, but at the same time I cannot blame Bond's choice to not even take the chance of his blood infecting the most precious people in his life (as long as he's alive, one way or another they are in danger).
The reason Bond called for the air strike early is because he just threw in the towel on finding a cure. Q also apparently had the ultimate answer as to whether or not they could cure him. Felt out of character for both of them to just give up.
And even beyond that, why wouldn’t Bond just live and not be able to be near his family? Adds to the dramatic irony and continues his torment of never being able to have his happy ending.
The virus passes from person to person until it reaches its intended target(s). To protect Mathilde and Madeleine, Bond would have to live in total isolation. That's practically impossible.
It's a very weak Bond film, in my bottom three alongside QOS and SP.
It's already ranked highly by many news publications and review aggregators so it isn't underrated at all.
It done what a Bond film should NEVER do, use a superior film's musical score (OHMSS) as part of the film to try and make the romance scenes/story believable.
This was one of Craig's weaker performances and arguably the worst of any Bond actors last film.
I disagree. Most people watching the film wouldn't even know All The Time in The World as the love theme from OHMSS. I think accusing the filmmakers of using it to „sell“ the love story is a bit silly. It's more so making a connection to OHMSS, because in that film Bond tries to get out of his job and Tracy still dies. Meanwhile in NTTD Bond sacrifices himself in order to keep her and Matilde safe. Both films examine Bond having a genuine connection and having to lose it, due to his work. I think that's actually a pretty great thematic connection.
Spot on. We Have All the time in the World isn't NTTD's love theme, but rather a theme representing Bond's inevitable loss. I think it's great how the song able to link two separate eras thematically and in terms of character.
People seemingly forget Bond and Madeleine do have their own distinct love theme, which is the title theme itself.
Superior in what sense? The score might be superior but the film certainly isn’t. Lazenby is a terrible actor and the romance in that movie ironically is carried by Diana Rigg and the soundtrack. The story isn’t much better either, since OHMSS doesn’t know if it wants to be a plain romance movie or a classic Bond movie.
Also calling NTTD the worst of any Bond’s performance in their last movie reeks of bias when DAF exists, a movie where Connery half asses the entire movie.
James Bond emerging out of Ian Fleming's anxiety of getting married and becoming a father having an ending that's getting married and becoming a father is so beautifully meta.
And for both men, creator and creation, their life caught up with them right as they were getting to enjoy things. But that's the tragedy of love, the tragedy of life.
Man I wish I was convinced by Bond and Madeleine’s romance, but it never worked for me. I’m still hung up on how good Bond’s romance was with Vesper. Hell, his chemistry was better with Camille and Moneypenny than Madeleine, imo.
It's in my top five favorite Bond films. It's 160+ minutes long, but it never felt like it dragged on for me. A great ending for Craig's Bond. The forest scene and they shootout at the end were so cool. But, that's just me.
It's not just you, I liked it a lot and honestly don't understand why people get upset for the ending.
The whole franchise is not meant to be intended with a particular timeline in mind, before the Craig era there were very little references to past movies, so even if Bond dies in one it doesn't affect the future films in any way.
Totally agree with this take, though I think those who hate the ending fall into two camps - one being continuity (as you address very well), but others simply don’t think James Bond should ever die, as he should always come out on top in the end. I don’t find either of these particularly important or well-founded and agree that the ending was great for Craig’s Bond, but the second camp is really a personal preference you can’t fault someone for having, whereas I think the first one re continuity is a bit silly and clearly has not been a thing the entire time.
Take Judi Dench being in both Brosnan and Craig movies (despite her being new to Brosnan - is she playing two different characters???) and Craig’s clear chronology issue if CR/QoS are supposed to be early Bond despite other movies taking place in prior decades. The first camp is griping over continuity that went out the window a while ago.
They would have made it more obvious if it was intentional, but honestly I like this theory. Totally new universe/characters, they just couldn't pass up casting Judi Dench again.
That's pretty much the case.
Brosnan's M is new to the job in GoldenEye. She became M long after Bond's career began.
Craig's M was already in place when he obtained his 00 status. She's a veteran who longs for the Cold War, as she states in Casino Royale. They are fairly obviously two separate characters. Or at least two different interpretations of the same character.
It’s terrible. Perhaps a passable film but a terrible Bond film. A total betrayal of the character and the staples of the franchise are systematically killed, figuratively or literally. Maybe yet another ‘subverting your expectations’ attempt, or outright contempt for the fans, either way it’s an abomination.
See, this is where I have a problem. Whenever it comes to NTTD, it becomes this highly heated, ideological discussion about the core of Bond. When words like „total betrayal“ and „abomination“ get thrown around, I mentally exit the conversation. Reminds me far too much of the Star Wars fandom…
It's a film of two halves. Up until the boat sinking I really enjoyed it, then it went off a cliff. Pretty boring second half with zero to make it a bond film.
Yeah this is how i feel, I've seen it 3 times and the back half just becomes mush in my brain. Like I really couldn't tell you the order of the story beats or much about Safin.
On rewatches by the time the big compound shootout I remembered having that feeling when you're driving for a long time on a familiar route and you can't recall the past hour or if you passed through that city yet, or if its still up ahead.
Fandoms are weird. I see this a lot among Star Wars fans. The idea that not getting what you want means it is bad. The movie is not bad. It does not betray the character. That is just hyperbolic nonsense.
You may not like it and that is valid. It didn't work for you. But it is not a "terrible Bond film" just because that's not what you think the character should do.
> It does not betray the character.
I don't know about that. For example, I think a few key elements of Bond are that he's optimistic, yet believes he's already a dead man walking...but that despite that, he doesn't die.
For Bond to fall for a woman with whom he has no chemistry, and then decide that the boffins of MI-6, etc., couldn't come up with a scientist/engineering team as good as Obruchev, to neutralize the nanobots, is ridiculously off-character. (Neutralizing should be much easier than creating such a weapon, and Bond is no novice to seeing the MI-6 boffins come up with fantastic technology.)
Perhaps Bond has just gotten old and doesn't care about life anymore, saddled with a somewhat attractive, yet lifeless, companion and his kid. Still, it doesn't seem in character for James Bond.
It definitely felt bizarre to me that he didn't expect Q to be able to come up with a 'cure' and that Q didn't even seem to want to try. There's always been a through line of 'they can do anything if they put their minds to it' -- it made it feel more like Bond was giving up rather than dying in the line of duty and that sat wrong with me. I could have accepted a better written death scene.
Though I also felt Madeline was the least successful of Craig era Bond's love interests and while I like Mathilde, dying for Madeline was also kind of meh.
So wanting a plot that doesn't feel contrived and written backwards is bad?
It seems like you're displaying hyperbole. A lot of people here just wanted an entertaining product with a decent plot, not, in the eyes of them including myself, an uneven film with a muddled plot.
Films like On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Licence To Kill, Casino Royale, and Skyfall have been embraced by modern audiences despite doing unique things for the franchise. The difference between them and No Time To Die is execution.
As for Star Wars, The Last Jedi and Solo killed my enthusiasm for the franchise, not because I had certain expectation, but because they were just lacking in plot and entertainment value for me.
How well do YOU know the character?
Read Fleming’s novels of the character?
Watch all the films multiple times?
NTTD was a reversal and deconstruction of the character of Bond historically. It wasn’t a great Bond film for many Bond fans, period.
But opinions are always personal, I won’t shame someone for liking it - but there is no doubt modernism tried to change an iconic character and it didn’t sit well with many.
What is this gatekeeping shit? I need to pass a test to have this conversation? I can only comment if I answered yes to all of the above?
And even if it is a deconstruction of Bond, how is that a bad thing? You can highlight or even scrutinize aspects of Bond in a James Bond movie. This isn't a stranger on screen, it was James Bond confronting things he never has before. And that is your problem. And that is perfectly fine. No one is forcing you to enjoy this movie.
But it isn't a terrible. Sure it has its flaws but it's actually pretty good. But it not being what you wanted doesn't make it bad.
Instead you are saying stuff like "it's a passable film but a terrible Bond film" as if that is actual crititicism. It's not.
You made a claim, I responded to it. I am not gate keeping anything.
You acted from a false intellectual high ground making assumptions about the comment you responded to and made claims that the OP didn’t, e.g. - ‘you are like most fandoms and mad you “didn’t get what you want” ‘.
No, many people are mad because Bond as the historical character that many on this particular sub care about (it is a James Bond subreddit, if you notice) was changed in a lot of aspects that run opposite his character traits built over an extremely long timeline. Whether that is a nuanced “no care / attachment” attitude, traits that are flawed but advantageous (using others for gain), etc. a lot of that went out the window. There are a lot of people here well educated on the “lore” of Bond. Maybe more so than you, who knows. Hence my questions in the post above. That was my point.
You don’t have to agree that it wasn’t a great film, you are more than welcome to love it as a Bond film, but I was simply explaining why many don’t.
But like anything online, you decide to be a dickhead rather than respond rationally to my, IMO, very rational rebuttal.
You do you. NTTD is controversial among Bond fans, to say the least. Anecdotally, the 3 people in my party at the theater all did not like the film at all. I would describe 2 of us as huge Bond fans (book readers, frequent movie watchers), one of us as a casual fan, but a fan that has seen all the films none the less.
Have a great night.
I am responding rationally. You can't separate your idea of what Bond "should be" with what the movie is. And you call me a dickhead for pointing that out.
It is the equivalent of crying about a Black Santa Claus. And to be clear, I am not calling you racist, or stupid, or anything that extreme. But I am pointing out that it is a limited and frankly silly way of looking at a fictional character. Nothing about Bond was betrayed because it decided to deconstruct the character. And that does not make it a bad movie.
You don't like it. That is fine. But stop claiming you know what is best for James Bond or that this film "doesn't get it". That is straight up gatekeeping bullshit.
I’m sure I’ll be downvoted, but I think it’s a great film. One of Craig’s best, however I’m in the minority in this sub for thinking Craig is one of the best Bonds to date.
I mean, the writing isn't that good and everything seem so forced. Definitely not underrated.
There is some good moments, but as a whole it's pretty disapointing.
To be honest we were all so hyped when it came out. It basically gave Cinema on the U.K. a thing to claw onto to save it after lockdown and struggles across the board afterwards. Business didn’t return straight away after this but for independents especially it kept them going.
It was Craig’s last film and a lot of nostalgia both from that and the moments in the film from other films. Upon first watch it was fantastic, people loved it and it was good (aside from the ending wasn’t a huge fan).
But on a second watch it’s not actually that good, Rami Malek is wasted as a villain completely.
I think the reason critics and such ranked it so highly was being Craig’s swansong and being James Bond at a time we really needed a big film at the box office
It has issues and never reaches the incredible highs of Casino Royale and Skyfall, but it’s a massive improvement over the incredibly lacklustre Spectre. I’d say it’s also better than Quantum of Solace, so I’d rank it on number 3 of Craig’s Bond adventures.
Despite its issues, I found it to be extremely entertaining and loved the action set pieces. Ana de Amas was criminally under-utilised - her character was hilarious! Sadly, Rami Malek wasn’t given enough to work with as Safin.
Craig's perfomance was specially good , the villain kind of just sucked , a lot of fun action scenes , pacing was a bit off , i actually didn't really mind the ending . Overall a pretty fun time.
I don't think NTTD deserves some of its criticism.
It has its faults but it has some amazing action, great character moments and some absolutely dramatic and heartbreaking scenes.
I did rate it above Skyfall after I saw it a couple of times but now would probably say its just behind it. I'd definitely put it in my top 8 Bond films although I'm still not absolutely sure about the ending.
A good movie, one of my favorite Bond films actually. But I can't help but think there was an even better movie underneath it. I think that Blofeld should've been the main villain and Safin (the weakest part of the movie IMO) should've been an ally or something.
Great movie on a whole. Safin is a dull villain and Nomi is a non-entity of a character and I feel really bad for Lashana Lynch cos she basically has nothing to do in this movie acting wise when seemingly everyone else does.
I also kinda wish the opening titles were in black and white, just cos the album art and music video for the song were, and it would have matched the somber mood after the train scene, fit the tone of the song, been an interesting contrast to the films vibrant visuals, been a bookend to the b&w PTS and vibrant titles of CR, and just looked cool af lol
I think it's probably a little underrated. I think that the villain is a little one-note (but there's plenty of those elsewhere in the series) and I can respect that they tried to do something different and break away from the established formula. I can honestly say that's one of the few times I've ever been completely blindsided in a theatre.
I think it's a little too long, the plot is convoluted, and they definitely could've done a better job making the Craig run a more cohesive story (since they apparently had that planned from the beginning, I have my doubts), but it's far from being one of the worst films in the franchise. At least in my opinion.
I liked it more than Skyfall, I also didn’t think that him dying is the worst thing in the franchise unlike a lot of people, actually found it quite upsetting, so sue me
Easily the most disappointing Craig bond movie. It signifies this franchise is dead. Quantum of solace and Spectre were trash and Skyfall was okay but this movie was just a huge letdown. I despise nearly everything about this movie asides from the matera escape, 5 minutes of Ana de armas, and the 5 seconds of cristoph waltz. This movie has no plot whatsoever and arguably the worst Bond villain out of the 25. And who the hell makes the decision to kill off Bond? One of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard of.
For the new Bond era they have to ditch Purvis and Wade. How many swings do you get before striking out with a franchise? They've done some good work but also some really, really bad work and it's been so long it might be time for a fresh pair of hands.
I adored it. It was a satisfying conclusion to plot threads started in *Casino Royale* and it gave me everything I wanted from Daniel Craig's 007. We got to see him older, we find out that he worked with his best friend Felix and the CIA for 5 years after he retired from MI6, and he finally went on a big, explosive mission to save the world. Also, it took a lot of inspiration from 'You Only Live Twice' with 007 being a father, encountering poisonous gardens, and dying on a mission (except the movie didn't pull its punches and pull a fake out).
I'm really excited for a more fun, youthful 007 that is not so serialized in the future. I want a modern day GoldenEye with the edge of Quantum of Solace and the emotional depths of Casino Royale.
Except Fleming's YOLT is a showdown between Bond and the man he hates most in the world where only one can walk away, and NTTD is a showdown between Bond and some guy who doesn't like his girlfriend for something her Dad did off screen so all the punch is with the former.
Honestly wasn't a fan of it. Then again I haven't enjoyed any of the Craig bond films. I found it trying to stuff 4 classic bond films into one an rewrite bond history.
I honestly loved it. My favorite is skyfall, followed by casino Royale, but I really enjoyed this movie. I liked the direction they took it, and I like the balls that had to go with the ending they chose
I fucking loved this film. Seriously, I loved it.
It got me into Bond so it'll literally never go outta my top 5 lol - fight me.
After seeing the other flicks, it's at #4 for me cuz FRWL, CR and SF are simply better in every way - but goddamn do I love this movie.
Definitely not underrated. Among critics and the wider audience it’s been reasonably praised. Among the fan base, it’s extremely polarising but that’s only a very small portion of people. So I guess you could say that it’s underrated among the fan base.
Personally, I would say it’s rated just the right amount, overall. It’s my least favourite Craig film but I still enjoy it. However, the ending frustrates me into oblivion.
People who are deep into the lore and have read the source materials think it’s a great film.
The casuals hate it because they think James Bond dies. (Spoilers he doesn’t).
I’ve got it as number 7 on my list at the moment.
I've read the first half of the novels and it's my least favourite Bond. Films faithful to the source material like Connery's first four, For Your Eyes Only, Lazenby and Dalton's films, and Craig's first three have one vital difference for me: their plots were actually well-executed.
The point of contention among fans isn't that he died (though maybe it's true for casual), but the events that led to his death.
If you haven’t read the Blofeld trilogy and have only read the first 6 books then you won’t be able to make the connection. There are several important themes taken from You Only Live Twice. The poison garden, Bond dying Blofeld dying, Bond having a child etc.
I know that Bond kills Blofeld in the poison garden in the novel before becoming amnesiac and leaving behind a pregnant Kissy Suzuki. Taking some of those aspects from the YOLT novel wasn't bad, but the execution fell flat for myself and others.
Wouldn't it have been better if Blofeld were the main villain? The poison garden was already there so why not have Blofeld own it like in the book? I bet that audiences would have found Bond's death more digestible if he were to be killed by his greatest nemesis rather than Safin, who was a diabolus ex machina with muddled motivations in contrast to Blofeld whose character and motivations has been well-established since the sixties.
Bond having a child is an interesting idea, but it's only there to justify Bond's heroic sacrifice. In general, I find the film to be bloated with so many ideas jam-packed into the script, resulting in a near-3 hour film feeling rushed.
> I bet that audiences would have found Bond's death more digestible if he were to be killed by his greatest nemesis rather than Safin
What evidence is there "audiences" didn't find it digestible?
I don't see why so many people think he doesn't die (I've seen it elsewhere, so not trying to call you out specifically or anything). They borrowed some aspects from the novel, but it's clear to me that Craig's Bond is dead. The next Bond movie isn't gonna be him crawling up on a beach somewhere with amnesia.
They even mention the unidentified ships in the area… just like in the book.
We either are getting a reboot or Bond gets picked up by Russia and is unrecognizable and sent back to kill M.
I’m into the lore and source materials, and I’m very much a fan of Craig’s Bond. But I rate No Time to Die in the middle.
**The Positives**
* I’m good with most of the elements people find controversial, i.e. Madeleine, Mathilde, and the ending. I believe those are very much in line with the Bond mythos.
* We get one of the greatest pre-title sequences in the series featuring perhaps the greatest action scene for the DB5. The stairwell shootout is among my favorite action sequences in the series.
* I adore the musical score, including its throwbacks to OHMSS.
* For that matter I love all of NTTD’s throwbacks and Easter eggs. They establish Craig’s era as a sort of reimagining of the classic films.
* I love the roles for Felix and Paloma and Q. Fiennes gives his best performance as M, even if I’m not enthralled with what NTTD does with his character.
* I find the film emotionally affecting.
**The Negatives**
* Craig’s performance strays too far from the character he had established. It feels like he’s playing himself a lot of the time rather than his usually stoic Bond, though I do get *why* his performance is this way.
* Safin is underwritten.
* Blofeld’s scenes are distastefully weird.
* There are too many plot points and characters, which creates a feeling of the film being cobbled together and too quickly paced despite being the series’ longest entry.
* There’s too little traditional espionage/mission stuff, most of it happening off screen with Nomi while Bond simply hangs out with Q, Blofeld, and Madeleine to receive large exposition dumps.
Absolutely loved it, good enough to slide its way into my top 5 or even top three . . Right up to the last ten minutes, which are amongst the worst minutes in any bond.
It was fantastic. People on r/JamesBond hate it because they went into the film with their own preconceived notions about what the movie should be. When it didn't live up to the script in their head, they hated it. But the general public, they loved the movie. I'm a fanatic but I don't try to imprint my own image upon the series, so with that separation, I was able to enjoy it. I didn't love the character of Safin, but he's appropriate for the Bond universe. And I wish they had done better with Blofeld. But beyond that, I have no complaints. It's a very good movie. And I have no issues with the ending, because this is a series of movies with little-to-no continuity.
People hate it because for them, the plot was bloated and contrived, the London scenes killed the momentum, Safin was a weak villain with a muddled motivations, and the melodramatic ending was unearned.
Saying that they tried to imprint their own image upon the series and had preconceived notions is uncalled for. Many of the fans I've seen on this sub just wanted an entertaining film with a decent plot and NTTD didn't provide those things.
The general public doesn't know anything about Bond aside from Connery, whoever they grew up with, and the incumbent Bond.
I thought it was great as a Bond movie, but you just need to understand that it is a Bond movie. So don't think about how the plot and bad guy's motivations and actions make no sense, and just enjoy the ride. It's a great ending to the Craig era.
It's fine, but it feels like an epilogue
Craig's time as Bond came to a clear with *Spectre*. This felt like milking it, but I'm glad everyone who likes it got a film they enjoy
It was knocking on my top five until the last 20 mins. Safin is under developed and it feels like something was cut out of the script in relation to his story but overall, NTTD is beautifully shot, has gorgeous cinematography, and is so well paced that it never drags for a second...
...it's just that ending... 😕
Agreed and when I went with last 20 minutes I was actually wondering whether I had allowed enough time for the stairway gun battle to be completed.
Let's narrow it down to the final 10-15 mins then. 😉
Haven’t watched it a second time. Tries to be ohmss. Which is my least favorite bond movie. Sad that I don’t feel like any of Craig’s era except CR will be a pass for me. Flipping through tv and I would stop on any bond movie. Except ohmss and these last craig movies. At least die another day has fun parts.
This has to be my least favourite bond film in the franchise, the opening credits are awesome then the rest of the film drops off a cliff.
I appreciate they are doing something different but this did not feel like a bond movie in the slightest.
Also you can only go downhill after CR, I think this is evident in the films aswell.
Much like THE LAST JEDI, they broke all the rules which helps us understand why the rules were there in the first place.
The idea that all James Bond really wanted was domestic family life and committed romance is so breathtakingly stupid that I no longer have faith that EON should be in the business of making Bond films.
Rotten Tomatoes has Never Say Never Again above ten official films and IMDB puts The Man With The Golden Gun on par with On Her Majesty's Secret Service, For Your Eyes Only, and The Living Daylights and above Licence To Kill.
I don't care for review sites in general.
The movie is great considering the efforts made by the writers, directors, actors, etc. in that dynamic world of 2019, where we saw most of these iconic characters "REMOVE THEMSELVES AWAY." It fulfills the continuity of the franchise, though.
But, what I feel went wrong is that the movie, rather than being a DC Farewell, went on to become divisive. The action is present, the lines are present, the characters are present ( except Cuba scene is amazing, which is bipartisan ), but everything is rather DULL that we know everything is gone, bit-by-bit !!! If it was to be really a farewell to DC it should have ended with a much hopeful/ thrilled end rather than exploiting the viewer emotion at its best .
I think the film is decent overall, but it felt like a letdown as far as being a sendoff for Craig's run as Bond.
That said, it's at least a better film than Spectre was.
I've had this sitting on my shelf for a long time, I'm not sure why I haven't gotten around to watching it yet considering I'm a big fan of the rest of them. I can't say anything for certain because I haven't seen it, but I do wonder if people are letting the ending color their opinion of the whole movie, sort of like they did with TLJ. Just because you don't like something that happens in it doesn't mean the whole movie is trash.
But again, it might be bad, I have no idea.
It’s not a terrible film but I don’t think it’s a particularly good film either.
I think it’s a beautiful & extremely well directed film. I thought that Craig was fantastic. The interplay between him, M, Q & Moneypenny, was great, with M contributing one of the funniest moments in years (when he confirmed that Bond had been staying with Q.) The Cuba scenes were terrific, although I don’t love Paloma as much as some other members of this sub. I loved the theme song, and I was delightful it won the Oscar.
However, I have multiple issues with it. While I don’t have an issue with Craig’s Bond dying, I remain unconvinced that it was necessary. The manner of his death was massively disappointing, and it was obvious that the entire script was geared towards his death. I also have no idea what Safin wanted. Malek is a fantastic actor, but Safin was a massive letdown. He wasn’t menacing & it didn’t help that he was basically Dr No. No was one of the greatest villains of all time, Safin never came close.
Blofeld’s death was incredibly disappointing, and it built upon the disgraceful way with which Blofeld was treated.
I also despise Nomi. She’s almost certainly my all-time least favourite Bond character. Madeleine wasn’t terrible, but the relationship between her & Bond was a little odd (he thought she had betrayed him so I’m not sure how much trust there was, but then we’re meant to forget about it). For that matter, I didn’t particularly care about the child, and while it kinda made sense why Safin was obsessed with Madeleine, the film didn’t build on it. Them being of similar ages was also weird.
Finally, I didn’t like the references to OHMSS. They only served to show how superior OHMSS was to NTTD, as well as much more emotionally devastating.
Love it apart from the end
Cuba was awesome...the Raid homage shoot out was awesome...Italy was awesome...the ship was awesome... soundtrack was awesome...the cars were awesome....what's not to like...
I really like the film, it’s beautifully shot. I find poor writing to be the main problem with most of the Daniel Craig films. To me, CR and Skyfall are the two that shine. NTTD is a fun watch. I don’t mind the ending, it’s a fresh take for the series & prob the only time they will ever do it. My main issue with it is poor use of villain, and pretty forced chemistry between Bond and Madeleine. I think both actors are great and do well, I just never thought of Madeleine as the love of his life potential.
Skyfall suffers from poor writing (or at least execution) of the final third. Silva is ten steps ahead until the final act and then it turns into Home Alone. That’s always kept Skyfall a peg down from great for me. Still better than everything that followed it though.
I miss when big blockbusters could have romantic melodrama played totally straight. Like big, swelling music while the main characters confess their love and shit, like why not. Add on them finally returning to the classic "Go to this hidden island, find the bad guy, confront him, and kill him" plot beat for the final act, and yeah, I'm in It felt like an actual mix of Casino's Grit and 90s Bond maximalism with some corny (but investing) melodrama mixed in. I loved it, but I would never say it's better than Skyfall or Casino.
I think that's actually a great point. I've seen soooo many people criticize this (and some of Craig's other Bond films) as melodramatic. I never saw it that way. For me it works, because of how straight it plays the drama.
Personally I strongly dislike it. Thought it had the worst villain in the series (tied with Graves) and thought it didn't earn its indulgent length. While I'm not opposed to killing Bond as a concept, the way it happened was manipulative. It's the only one in the series I have no interest in rewatching. There were positives. Cuba was a strong sequence and the opening chase looked good too. Blofeld controlling Spectre with an android eye was so wacky that I kinda love it. The heist of the nanobots was also a good sequence. And I did appreciate the callback to FYEO when Bond crushes that guy with a Land Rover.
Good movie, poor baddie, terrible ending.
Yep pretty much
Yes. Same as SPECTRE, actually. Skyfall is the same, only with a better baddie.
Skyfall is one of my favorite stand-alone Bond films. It’s so self contained and is very well balanced. *slightly* below Casino Royale for Craig but one of the better Bond films IMO of the last 30 years
Agree. I rewatch casino and Skyfall every now and then. I have no desire to rewatch NTTD.
Skyfall had all of the classic Bond moments and homages. It would've been the perfect send-off for Craig.
Skyfall has an exceptional ending. Inverts the tropes smartly, looks amazing, and leaves us with a rejuvenated Bond, ready to go back to basics. They just couldn't follow up.
Skyfall was awesome
My only problem with skyfall is it was too long, though idk where you cut
Worst villain ever. But I disagree on the ending. It isn't terrible...it's absolute shit. I had to search for a post about this just so I could bitch about it to vent.
Basically sums up every Daniel Craig Bond movie.
Underused and still very mysterious villain. He was not fleshed out at all. If they added more to him, he could have been a very scary villain.
I think there’s better Bond movies out there, but this movies gets WAY too much intense hate in the Bond fan base. Although I think casual audiences enjoy it quite a bit
I think you’re right. The word I might use, instead of “underrated”, is “divisive”. I think it’s absolutely one of the most polarising Bond movies out there, in that most people seem either to love it or absolutely hate it. I’m in the camp that likes it (mostly for its great visuals, excellent performances and throwbacks to classic concepts like a villain’s island lair) but it’s not top tier for me.
Can we place a moratorium on the word “underrated?” It’s getting out of hand.
Underrated comment.
/r/JamesBond go 24-hours without trying to rank things challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
I sadly think that the word will be overused so long as fandoms exist on the internet.
I think we should keep it but remove one of the R’s. It just looks weird. Underated. Much nicer.
I underated and now I'm hungry
I wouldn't say underrated, I'd say overhated. On it's own merits - it's a mixed bag. Craig returns to autopilot mode - same as Spectre & the villain is lame with a silly plan. But the actions sequences & cinematography is much improved from Spectre, you feel the full weight of every scene & set. There is also a better understanding of how to write a compelling story. It does rely on the tried & tested trope of 'bad guy has links to the past' but inverts it entirely from Spectre. Whereas in Spectre it kept saying over & over that Bond is the centrepiece, NTTD instead goes for Bond as the unexpected factor. That makes for a much more entertaining experience - as Bond ruins our villains plans by being involved when everyone else had written him off. I'd say there has a fair bit of humour that lands & NTTD takes itself less seriously than previous entries - which works to it's favour with the gargantuan runtime. But there's absolutely no way round the ending. It's polarising. You'll either love it or hate it. I'm in the camp that hates it. Not because Bond dies - but it feels like a dirty way to end his character to me. My ideal Bond goes out in a blaze of glory with a smirk. Mission accomplished. Whereas here Bond has to suicide by missile because nanotechnology makes him unable to touch his family? I dunno - if you'd told me in 2006 that's how Craig goes out, I'd burst out laughing. It's so far away from the Bond we've been with - a guy who knows every situation could be his last & somewhat expects it to be. It's better than Spectre & Quantum of Solace - a film that failed the franchise & a film that failed to be finished - but not better than Skyfall & Casino Royale - 2 films that delve into the psychology of our charming sociopath whilst having a great backdrop of spy mystery & cool fights. I expect this film to be judged solely off of Bond's death, in the same way Spectre is judged solely off of Blofeld's inclusion & link to the franchise.
The movie itself is rated moderately high on most critic and review sites. Therefore it can’t really be regarded as underrated. I think the movie attempts to do a lot and succeeds at very little. The script has too many cooks in the kitchen, the movie has very poor pacing after Cuba and the ending is polarising. I honestly think the ending is terrible and the OHMSS references are unearned. The movie has beautiful cinematography and the Cuba sequence is fun… but that’s the only positives I can think for it.
Well, I don’t think the OP was talking about the critics. More so about Bond fandom, I would imagine, where this movie is quite hated by a lot of people. I can agree that it had a flawed script, that tries to do too much, but I disagree that it succeeds at little. And I don't really get all the hate for the ending. Personally, I feel like that part comes from people just not wanting the character to be killed off. Which is totally fine and legitimate, but it's more so an ideological base of criticism than a cinematic one.
I’d be curious to allow polls again temporarily just to see how fans here feel about it right now. After release, it seemed lost people were praising it to high heaven, but now I wonder if the active users here are mostly hardcore fans who think it’s mediocre or terrible.
We could go further than that and do an updated ranking for all of the films. Since Bond news are dry at the moment, I would expect the voters to be the more hardcore fans. If we do it, it'd definitely be after Project Soundtrack wraps up and depending on if Project Wardrobe happens. What do you think u/Sneaky_Bond?
I would love to see some kind of definitive ranking of all the films for the sub. Honestly, I was actually thinking of doing something like that, involving asking everybody for their rating of each film out of ten, then averaging them all together to get a number. If you or anyone else has a better method, however, that would be fine. Let me know if you want someone to be in charge of that project.
I like the idea, but I might do it a little differently, like have people submit their full rankings into a Google sheet or something, and order each film by their average placement. Might also be interesting to know the standard deviation of each film, highlighting the most polarizing ones. I suspect the results might be unsurprising, though, like CR, GE, Skyfall, Goldfinger, and TSWLM being the top five. So it might be really interesting to attempt a weighted average for each film, based on variously weighted categories. I did this for myself and posted the results a while back, and you could easily do it by having people fill out a Google Form to rate each category out of 10, and analyze the results. More work and likely fewer participants, however.
I would be fine with that, as we were recently discussing possibilities for future community events. I'm also okay with a one-off NTTD poll. Moderators still have the option of posting polls, right?
Yeah, it worked for me just now. I can create the one-off for NTTD right now. What options do you think we should have?
We should ask u/Spockodile.
u/Cyborg800_2004 I would just ask people to select where they currently rank it amongst the EON films: 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 20-25. I feel like that paints a more accurate picture than a numerical rating. But I’m open to better or more creative ideas.
Opening with the DB5 was good aswell
had flaws but still good, I'd choose it over SPECTRE the main flaws it had for me were the villains, a little bit of the pacing, and I get it could've been more GRAND for the last bond film.
this pretty much sums it up. overall i liked it, 7.5/10. not by any means a bad movie and a decent Bond movie at that. could it have been better? sure. was the ending the optimal way to go out? arguably not. but following Spectre I thought it tied the end of the Craig era together well enough to satisfy me.
My opinion is they did Felix dirty. He deserved way better than to die because of that little weasel (though Bond’s line when he kills the weasel is beautiful).
Conflicted, I really enjoyed the movie but would’ve liked a less dour ending. Spectre was a better sendoff for Craig’s Bond in all honesty. The Craig story arc was interesting but I don’t want to see anything like it again for a long time. Bond can be dark but make each film self contained again.
I thought Ana de Armas’ character and scenes with bond were the best part, then even she just disappears lol. It was very underwhelming and felt rushed for how long it took to come out
I thought it had a dull and predictable plot with an awful script i.e underused Waltz..again! The visuals however were amazing.
Loved it. Great swan song. That duster jacket was horrible though
I enjoyed the film, the ending stuck with me for weeks after it and I haven't had many films do that before. The part when he is driving with Mathilde & Madeleine in the car and running from Safin's men. I really wanted them to escape. I just seen it as a Dad doing everything he could to keep his daughter safe.
Honestly if Bond didn’t get blown to bits at the end and we had a more traditional fun ending I would rate it pretty high. I had fun with it but the ending killed it for me.
Indeed! It felt forced. Like it felt Bond didn’t have to tell them to send the missiles right then and why would he just give up on trying to find a cure? Or wouldn’t an EMP work to kill the nanos stuff in his blood?
Why forced? What would be a better ending in your opinion? I agree that they gave up a bit too easily on the idea of removing the nanobots, but at the same time I cannot blame Bond's choice to not even take the chance of his blood infecting the most precious people in his life (as long as he's alive, one way or another they are in danger).
The reason Bond called for the air strike early is because he just threw in the towel on finding a cure. Q also apparently had the ultimate answer as to whether or not they could cure him. Felt out of character for both of them to just give up. And even beyond that, why wouldn’t Bond just live and not be able to be near his family? Adds to the dramatic irony and continues his torment of never being able to have his happy ending.
The virus passes from person to person until it reaches its intended target(s). To protect Mathilde and Madeleine, Bond would have to live in total isolation. That's practically impossible.
Flawed but fun. No Casino Royale, but what is....
It's a very weak Bond film, in my bottom three alongside QOS and SP. It's already ranked highly by many news publications and review aggregators so it isn't underrated at all. It done what a Bond film should NEVER do, use a superior film's musical score (OHMSS) as part of the film to try and make the romance scenes/story believable. This was one of Craig's weaker performances and arguably the worst of any Bond actors last film.
I disagree. Most people watching the film wouldn't even know All The Time in The World as the love theme from OHMSS. I think accusing the filmmakers of using it to „sell“ the love story is a bit silly. It's more so making a connection to OHMSS, because in that film Bond tries to get out of his job and Tracy still dies. Meanwhile in NTTD Bond sacrifices himself in order to keep her and Matilde safe. Both films examine Bond having a genuine connection and having to lose it, due to his work. I think that's actually a pretty great thematic connection.
Spot on. We Have All the time in the World isn't NTTD's love theme, but rather a theme representing Bond's inevitable loss. I think it's great how the song able to link two separate eras thematically and in terms of character. People seemingly forget Bond and Madeleine do have their own distinct love theme, which is the title theme itself.
> It's a very weak Bond film, in my bottom three alongside QOS and SP. I thought I'd be the only one here with that opinion.
Superior in what sense? The score might be superior but the film certainly isn’t. Lazenby is a terrible actor and the romance in that movie ironically is carried by Diana Rigg and the soundtrack. The story isn’t much better either, since OHMSS doesn’t know if it wants to be a plain romance movie or a classic Bond movie. Also calling NTTD the worst of any Bond’s performance in their last movie reeks of bias when DAF exists, a movie where Connery half asses the entire movie.
James Bond emerging out of Ian Fleming's anxiety of getting married and becoming a father having an ending that's getting married and becoming a father is so beautifully meta. And for both men, creator and creation, their life caught up with them right as they were getting to enjoy things. But that's the tragedy of love, the tragedy of life.
Man I wish I was convinced by Bond and Madeleine’s romance, but it never worked for me. I’m still hung up on how good Bond’s romance was with Vesper. Hell, his chemistry was better with Camille and Moneypenny than Madeleine, imo.
It's in my top five favorite Bond films. It's 160+ minutes long, but it never felt like it dragged on for me. A great ending for Craig's Bond. The forest scene and they shootout at the end were so cool. But, that's just me.
It's not just you, I liked it a lot and honestly don't understand why people get upset for the ending. The whole franchise is not meant to be intended with a particular timeline in mind, before the Craig era there were very little references to past movies, so even if Bond dies in one it doesn't affect the future films in any way.
Totally agree with this take, though I think those who hate the ending fall into two camps - one being continuity (as you address very well), but others simply don’t think James Bond should ever die, as he should always come out on top in the end. I don’t find either of these particularly important or well-founded and agree that the ending was great for Craig’s Bond, but the second camp is really a personal preference you can’t fault someone for having, whereas I think the first one re continuity is a bit silly and clearly has not been a thing the entire time. Take Judi Dench being in both Brosnan and Craig movies (despite her being new to Brosnan - is she playing two different characters???) and Craig’s clear chronology issue if CR/QoS are supposed to be early Bond despite other movies taking place in prior decades. The first camp is griping over continuity that went out the window a while ago.
Fun fact, some evidence suggests that Judi Dench indeed played two characters: https://screenrant.com/james-bond-judi-dench-m-names-two-people/
They would have made it more obvious if it was intentional, but honestly I like this theory. Totally new universe/characters, they just couldn't pass up casting Judi Dench again.
That's pretty much the case. Brosnan's M is new to the job in GoldenEye. She became M long after Bond's career began. Craig's M was already in place when he obtained his 00 status. She's a veteran who longs for the Cold War, as she states in Casino Royale. They are fairly obviously two separate characters. Or at least two different interpretations of the same character.
It’s terrible. Perhaps a passable film but a terrible Bond film. A total betrayal of the character and the staples of the franchise are systematically killed, figuratively or literally. Maybe yet another ‘subverting your expectations’ attempt, or outright contempt for the fans, either way it’s an abomination.
See, this is where I have a problem. Whenever it comes to NTTD, it becomes this highly heated, ideological discussion about the core of Bond. When words like „total betrayal“ and „abomination“ get thrown around, I mentally exit the conversation. Reminds me far too much of the Star Wars fandom…
It's a film of two halves. Up until the boat sinking I really enjoyed it, then it went off a cliff. Pretty boring second half with zero to make it a bond film.
Yeah this is how i feel, I've seen it 3 times and the back half just becomes mush in my brain. Like I really couldn't tell you the order of the story beats or much about Safin. On rewatches by the time the big compound shootout I remembered having that feeling when you're driving for a long time on a familiar route and you can't recall the past hour or if you passed through that city yet, or if its still up ahead.
Fandoms are weird. I see this a lot among Star Wars fans. The idea that not getting what you want means it is bad. The movie is not bad. It does not betray the character. That is just hyperbolic nonsense. You may not like it and that is valid. It didn't work for you. But it is not a "terrible Bond film" just because that's not what you think the character should do.
> It does not betray the character. I don't know about that. For example, I think a few key elements of Bond are that he's optimistic, yet believes he's already a dead man walking...but that despite that, he doesn't die. For Bond to fall for a woman with whom he has no chemistry, and then decide that the boffins of MI-6, etc., couldn't come up with a scientist/engineering team as good as Obruchev, to neutralize the nanobots, is ridiculously off-character. (Neutralizing should be much easier than creating such a weapon, and Bond is no novice to seeing the MI-6 boffins come up with fantastic technology.) Perhaps Bond has just gotten old and doesn't care about life anymore, saddled with a somewhat attractive, yet lifeless, companion and his kid. Still, it doesn't seem in character for James Bond.
It definitely felt bizarre to me that he didn't expect Q to be able to come up with a 'cure' and that Q didn't even seem to want to try. There's always been a through line of 'they can do anything if they put their minds to it' -- it made it feel more like Bond was giving up rather than dying in the line of duty and that sat wrong with me. I could have accepted a better written death scene. Though I also felt Madeline was the least successful of Craig era Bond's love interests and while I like Mathilde, dying for Madeline was also kind of meh.
So wanting a plot that doesn't feel contrived and written backwards is bad? It seems like you're displaying hyperbole. A lot of people here just wanted an entertaining product with a decent plot, not, in the eyes of them including myself, an uneven film with a muddled plot. Films like On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Licence To Kill, Casino Royale, and Skyfall have been embraced by modern audiences despite doing unique things for the franchise. The difference between them and No Time To Die is execution. As for Star Wars, The Last Jedi and Solo killed my enthusiasm for the franchise, not because I had certain expectation, but because they were just lacking in plot and entertainment value for me.
How well do YOU know the character? Read Fleming’s novels of the character? Watch all the films multiple times? NTTD was a reversal and deconstruction of the character of Bond historically. It wasn’t a great Bond film for many Bond fans, period. But opinions are always personal, I won’t shame someone for liking it - but there is no doubt modernism tried to change an iconic character and it didn’t sit well with many.
What is this gatekeeping shit? I need to pass a test to have this conversation? I can only comment if I answered yes to all of the above? And even if it is a deconstruction of Bond, how is that a bad thing? You can highlight or even scrutinize aspects of Bond in a James Bond movie. This isn't a stranger on screen, it was James Bond confronting things he never has before. And that is your problem. And that is perfectly fine. No one is forcing you to enjoy this movie. But it isn't a terrible. Sure it has its flaws but it's actually pretty good. But it not being what you wanted doesn't make it bad. Instead you are saying stuff like "it's a passable film but a terrible Bond film" as if that is actual crititicism. It's not.
You made a claim, I responded to it. I am not gate keeping anything. You acted from a false intellectual high ground making assumptions about the comment you responded to and made claims that the OP didn’t, e.g. - ‘you are like most fandoms and mad you “didn’t get what you want” ‘. No, many people are mad because Bond as the historical character that many on this particular sub care about (it is a James Bond subreddit, if you notice) was changed in a lot of aspects that run opposite his character traits built over an extremely long timeline. Whether that is a nuanced “no care / attachment” attitude, traits that are flawed but advantageous (using others for gain), etc. a lot of that went out the window. There are a lot of people here well educated on the “lore” of Bond. Maybe more so than you, who knows. Hence my questions in the post above. That was my point. You don’t have to agree that it wasn’t a great film, you are more than welcome to love it as a Bond film, but I was simply explaining why many don’t. But like anything online, you decide to be a dickhead rather than respond rationally to my, IMO, very rational rebuttal. You do you. NTTD is controversial among Bond fans, to say the least. Anecdotally, the 3 people in my party at the theater all did not like the film at all. I would describe 2 of us as huge Bond fans (book readers, frequent movie watchers), one of us as a casual fan, but a fan that has seen all the films none the less. Have a great night.
I am responding rationally. You can't separate your idea of what Bond "should be" with what the movie is. And you call me a dickhead for pointing that out. It is the equivalent of crying about a Black Santa Claus. And to be clear, I am not calling you racist, or stupid, or anything that extreme. But I am pointing out that it is a limited and frankly silly way of looking at a fictional character. Nothing about Bond was betrayed because it decided to deconstruct the character. And that does not make it a bad movie. You don't like it. That is fine. But stop claiming you know what is best for James Bond or that this film "doesn't get it". That is straight up gatekeeping bullshit.
Like they say, no one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans
Can you give some examples?
It’s a good film just not a good Bond film
^^this The movie had nanobots, so I was disappointed when Picard and Data didn't show up.
I didn’t mind it but someone described it to me as the Bond film for people who don’t normally like Bond films, and that has stuck with me since.
How so?
The only Craig one I don’t like is quantum, his odd numbered ones are all in my top 10 (but not my top 5)
I’m sure I’ll be downvoted, but I think it’s a great film. One of Craig’s best, however I’m in the minority in this sub for thinking Craig is one of the best Bonds to date.
I mean, the writing isn't that good and everything seem so forced. Definitely not underrated. There is some good moments, but as a whole it's pretty disapointing.
No. It’s one of the worst entries in the franchise. A sad swan song for Craig.
Overrated, not a true Bond movie, the biggest disappointment I had over a movie, 2 full years of hype was shattered.
I think it’s underrated as well
To be honest we were all so hyped when it came out. It basically gave Cinema on the U.K. a thing to claw onto to save it after lockdown and struggles across the board afterwards. Business didn’t return straight away after this but for independents especially it kept them going. It was Craig’s last film and a lot of nostalgia both from that and the moments in the film from other films. Upon first watch it was fantastic, people loved it and it was good (aside from the ending wasn’t a huge fan). But on a second watch it’s not actually that good, Rami Malek is wasted as a villain completely. I think the reason critics and such ranked it so highly was being Craig’s swansong and being James Bond at a time we really needed a big film at the box office
It has issues and never reaches the incredible highs of Casino Royale and Skyfall, but it’s a massive improvement over the incredibly lacklustre Spectre. I’d say it’s also better than Quantum of Solace, so I’d rank it on number 3 of Craig’s Bond adventures. Despite its issues, I found it to be extremely entertaining and loved the action set pieces. Ana de Amas was criminally under-utilised - her character was hilarious! Sadly, Rami Malek wasn’t given enough to work with as Safin.
I enjoyed it immensely!
Craig's perfomance was specially good , the villain kind of just sucked , a lot of fun action scenes , pacing was a bit off , i actually didn't really mind the ending . Overall a pretty fun time.
I think all of the Craig movies are really good,with the exception of QoS and Skyfall (which I think is overrated). So no, you're not the only one.
I don't think NTTD deserves some of its criticism. It has its faults but it has some amazing action, great character moments and some absolutely dramatic and heartbreaking scenes. I did rate it above Skyfall after I saw it a couple of times but now would probably say its just behind it. I'd definitely put it in my top 8 Bond films although I'm still not absolutely sure about the ending.
I think it’s hugely underrated
A good movie, one of my favorite Bond films actually. But I can't help but think there was an even better movie underneath it. I think that Blofeld should've been the main villain and Safin (the weakest part of the movie IMO) should've been an ally or something.
Great movie on a whole. Safin is a dull villain and Nomi is a non-entity of a character and I feel really bad for Lashana Lynch cos she basically has nothing to do in this movie acting wise when seemingly everyone else does. I also kinda wish the opening titles were in black and white, just cos the album art and music video for the song were, and it would have matched the somber mood after the train scene, fit the tone of the song, been an interesting contrast to the films vibrant visuals, been a bookend to the b&w PTS and vibrant titles of CR, and just looked cool af lol
Yeah, definitely better and deserves more hype than it got. It definitely has some nostalgic and deep elements to it. I loved many parts of it.
3rd best Craig film for me. I really like it. Not much between the top 3 for me at all.
Yes it's a very good movie the end annoyed some hardcore fans.
A tremendous disappointment.
There are parts of the movie I enjoy, but a lot of it didn't work, and the end was total crap. They forgot what kind of movie they were making.
It’s great.
Loved it in all aspects
I think it's probably a little underrated. I think that the villain is a little one-note (but there's plenty of those elsewhere in the series) and I can respect that they tried to do something different and break away from the established formula. I can honestly say that's one of the few times I've ever been completely blindsided in a theatre. I think it's a little too long, the plot is convoluted, and they definitely could've done a better job making the Craig run a more cohesive story (since they apparently had that planned from the beginning, I have my doubts), but it's far from being one of the worst films in the franchise. At least in my opinion.
I liked it more than Skyfall, I also didn’t think that him dying is the worst thing in the franchise unlike a lot of people, actually found it quite upsetting, so sue me
Easily the most disappointing Craig bond movie. It signifies this franchise is dead. Quantum of solace and Spectre were trash and Skyfall was okay but this movie was just a huge letdown. I despise nearly everything about this movie asides from the matera escape, 5 minutes of Ana de armas, and the 5 seconds of cristoph waltz. This movie has no plot whatsoever and arguably the worst Bond villain out of the 25. And who the hell makes the decision to kill off Bond? One of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard of.
Yes, you are the only one in eight billion people... Personally, I have no real interest in seeing it a second time.
Albert R. Broccoli probably rolled over in his grave. How can the worst movie be underrated?
Only poor part of the movie was the villain, I liked everything else. Definitely a good movie and a fun time in my eyes
I think they need to get professionals writing and making Bond again.
For the new Bond era they have to ditch Purvis and Wade. How many swings do you get before striking out with a franchise? They've done some good work but also some really, really bad work and it's been so long it might be time for a fresh pair of hands.
I adored it. It was a satisfying conclusion to plot threads started in *Casino Royale* and it gave me everything I wanted from Daniel Craig's 007. We got to see him older, we find out that he worked with his best friend Felix and the CIA for 5 years after he retired from MI6, and he finally went on a big, explosive mission to save the world. Also, it took a lot of inspiration from 'You Only Live Twice' with 007 being a father, encountering poisonous gardens, and dying on a mission (except the movie didn't pull its punches and pull a fake out). I'm really excited for a more fun, youthful 007 that is not so serialized in the future. I want a modern day GoldenEye with the edge of Quantum of Solace and the emotional depths of Casino Royale.
Except Fleming's YOLT is a showdown between Bond and the man he hates most in the world where only one can walk away, and NTTD is a showdown between Bond and some guy who doesn't like his girlfriend for something her Dad did off screen so all the punch is with the former.
It took inspiration from the novel, it didn't adapt it. That showdown in the novel and the whole setting was so amazing.
I loved it. The ending is a real kick to the crotch, though.
These"underrated" posts are now worse than the polls Also, NTTD is magnificent
Honestly wasn't a fan of it. Then again I haven't enjoyed any of the Craig bond films. I found it trying to stuff 4 classic bond films into one an rewrite bond history.
A miserable end to the best bond for me.
I enjoyed it more than the previous 2
Up to the moment Madeline returns....it was awesome.
Very Fleming (weak villain aside). I thought it was great.
I honestly loved it. My favorite is skyfall, followed by casino Royale, but I really enjoyed this movie. I liked the direction they took it, and I like the balls that had to go with the ending they chose
Love it.
Amazing movie
My second favourite Bond movie behind Casino Royale.
I fucking loved this film. Seriously, I loved it. It got me into Bond so it'll literally never go outta my top 5 lol - fight me. After seeing the other flicks, it's at #4 for me cuz FRWL, CR and SF are simply better in every way - but goddamn do I love this movie.
It’s my second favourite Craig Bond film (after Casino Royale). It takes chances and big swings and for the most part is a success.
How can a film that everyone praised be underrated? It was shit.
Definitely not underrated. Among critics and the wider audience it’s been reasonably praised. Among the fan base, it’s extremely polarising but that’s only a very small portion of people. So I guess you could say that it’s underrated among the fan base. Personally, I would say it’s rated just the right amount, overall. It’s my least favourite Craig film but I still enjoy it. However, the ending frustrates me into oblivion.
I loved it . The ending made me tear up
I love the movie. Saw it 8 times in the theater...
I agree, I thought it was a good last film for Craig
The first half is an amazing Bond movie. The second half is an overly sentimental abomination that has no place in the Bond franchise.
It's in a tier of it's own. The worst tier
The first 30 minutes was great, after that the movie was awful.
Omg i hate it so much. It was such a let down. Terrible story, Bonds acts like an idiot and the premise was terrible. I will never watch it again
It’s bad.
People who are deep into the lore and have read the source materials think it’s a great film. The casuals hate it because they think James Bond dies. (Spoilers he doesn’t). I’ve got it as number 7 on my list at the moment.
I've read the first half of the novels and it's my least favourite Bond. Films faithful to the source material like Connery's first four, For Your Eyes Only, Lazenby and Dalton's films, and Craig's first three have one vital difference for me: their plots were actually well-executed. The point of contention among fans isn't that he died (though maybe it's true for casual), but the events that led to his death.
If you haven’t read the Blofeld trilogy and have only read the first 6 books then you won’t be able to make the connection. There are several important themes taken from You Only Live Twice. The poison garden, Bond dying Blofeld dying, Bond having a child etc.
I know that Bond kills Blofeld in the poison garden in the novel before becoming amnesiac and leaving behind a pregnant Kissy Suzuki. Taking some of those aspects from the YOLT novel wasn't bad, but the execution fell flat for myself and others. Wouldn't it have been better if Blofeld were the main villain? The poison garden was already there so why not have Blofeld own it like in the book? I bet that audiences would have found Bond's death more digestible if he were to be killed by his greatest nemesis rather than Safin, who was a diabolus ex machina with muddled motivations in contrast to Blofeld whose character and motivations has been well-established since the sixties. Bond having a child is an interesting idea, but it's only there to justify Bond's heroic sacrifice. In general, I find the film to be bloated with so many ideas jam-packed into the script, resulting in a near-3 hour film feeling rushed.
> I bet that audiences would have found Bond's death more digestible if he were to be killed by his greatest nemesis rather than Safin What evidence is there "audiences" didn't find it digestible?
I don't see why so many people think he doesn't die (I've seen it elsewhere, so not trying to call you out specifically or anything). They borrowed some aspects from the novel, but it's clear to me that Craig's Bond is dead. The next Bond movie isn't gonna be him crawling up on a beach somewhere with amnesia.
They even mention the unidentified ships in the area… just like in the book. We either are getting a reboot or Bond gets picked up by Russia and is unrecognizable and sent back to kill M.
> People who are deep into the lore and have read the source materials think it’s a great film. This is so real.
u/Sneaky_Bond
I’m into the lore and source materials, and I’m very much a fan of Craig’s Bond. But I rate No Time to Die in the middle. **The Positives** * I’m good with most of the elements people find controversial, i.e. Madeleine, Mathilde, and the ending. I believe those are very much in line with the Bond mythos. * We get one of the greatest pre-title sequences in the series featuring perhaps the greatest action scene for the DB5. The stairwell shootout is among my favorite action sequences in the series. * I adore the musical score, including its throwbacks to OHMSS. * For that matter I love all of NTTD’s throwbacks and Easter eggs. They establish Craig’s era as a sort of reimagining of the classic films. * I love the roles for Felix and Paloma and Q. Fiennes gives his best performance as M, even if I’m not enthralled with what NTTD does with his character. * I find the film emotionally affecting. **The Negatives** * Craig’s performance strays too far from the character he had established. It feels like he’s playing himself a lot of the time rather than his usually stoic Bond, though I do get *why* his performance is this way. * Safin is underwritten. * Blofeld’s scenes are distastefully weird. * There are too many plot points and characters, which creates a feeling of the film being cobbled together and too quickly paced despite being the series’ longest entry. * There’s too little traditional espionage/mission stuff, most of it happening off screen with Nomi while Bond simply hangs out with Q, Blofeld, and Madeleine to receive large exposition dumps.
This is probably the best review of the film I've read so far.
Absolutely loved it, good enough to slide its way into my top 5 or even top three . . Right up to the last ten minutes, which are amongst the worst minutes in any bond.
First half great second half worse than spectre. The mid way split for me is when bond meets blofeld in prison.
I liked most of it, but I hated the ending and thought the villain was weak.
Never going to like the Bond film or the actor that killed James Bond
It was fantastic. People on r/JamesBond hate it because they went into the film with their own preconceived notions about what the movie should be. When it didn't live up to the script in their head, they hated it. But the general public, they loved the movie. I'm a fanatic but I don't try to imprint my own image upon the series, so with that separation, I was able to enjoy it. I didn't love the character of Safin, but he's appropriate for the Bond universe. And I wish they had done better with Blofeld. But beyond that, I have no complaints. It's a very good movie. And I have no issues with the ending, because this is a series of movies with little-to-no continuity.
I completely agree with your take, I feel the same way when I read most of the comments.
People hate it because for them, the plot was bloated and contrived, the London scenes killed the momentum, Safin was a weak villain with a muddled motivations, and the melodramatic ending was unearned. Saying that they tried to imprint their own image upon the series and had preconceived notions is uncalled for. Many of the fans I've seen on this sub just wanted an entertaining film with a decent plot and NTTD didn't provide those things. The general public doesn't know anything about Bond aside from Connery, whoever they grew up with, and the incumbent Bond.
The first part was great the second not so much
I thought it was great as a Bond movie, but you just need to understand that it is a Bond movie. So don't think about how the plot and bad guy's motivations and actions make no sense, and just enjoy the ride. It's a great ending to the Craig era.
It's fine, but it feels like an epilogue Craig's time as Bond came to a clear with *Spectre*. This felt like milking it, but I'm glad everyone who likes it got a film they enjoy
It was knocking on my top five until the last 20 mins. Safin is under developed and it feels like something was cut out of the script in relation to his story but overall, NTTD is beautifully shot, has gorgeous cinematography, and is so well paced that it never drags for a second... ...it's just that ending... 😕
That assault up the stairs in the last 20m is one of the best scenes in any Bond flick
Agreed and when I went with last 20 minutes I was actually wondering whether I had allowed enough time for the stairway gun battle to be completed. Let's narrow it down to the final 10-15 mins then. 😉
Lower end of the upper class bond movies for me
Abit underwhelming, 6/10 nothing too special
It’s too long. Cut at least 40 minutes off the running time.
Pretty great, top 10 for me and easilly Craig's 3rd best. Just wish Safin's jump from 1 end goal to another was explained.
Haven’t watched it a second time. Tries to be ohmss. Which is my least favorite bond movie. Sad that I don’t feel like any of Craig’s era except CR will be a pass for me. Flipping through tv and I would stop on any bond movie. Except ohmss and these last craig movies. At least die another day has fun parts.
That poster is still crap.
But it captures the film so well…
absurdly overhated. It's fine, one of the worse ones, yeah, but Jesus Christ have you seen Diamonds are Forever? The franchise gets much, much worse.
Fell asleep in the middle. Tried rewatching but couldn’t watch the ending again. I’ve seen every other Bond at least 3x.
It could stand to lose about 20 minutes
Overrated.
It was great until the end!!!
8-10 until the last 5, then 2-10.
Great movie with a bad ending. But still a good time to watch.
This has to be my least favourite bond film in the franchise, the opening credits are awesome then the rest of the film drops off a cliff. I appreciate they are doing something different but this did not feel like a bond movie in the slightest. Also you can only go downhill after CR, I think this is evident in the films aswell.
Much like THE LAST JEDI, they broke all the rules which helps us understand why the rules were there in the first place. The idea that all James Bond really wanted was domestic family life and committed romance is so breathtakingly stupid that I no longer have faith that EON should be in the business of making Bond films.
I hate this movie.
I’m all about the under dog, and championing the unloved or misunderstood.. but no I think no time to die is absolute dog shit and terrible!
Not a good movie. Not bad either. Better than spectre I’ll give it that.
It’s the #7 ranked Bond movie on Rotten Tomatoes. And #5 on IMDB. You think it’s significantly better than that?
Rotten Tomatoes has Never Say Never Again above ten official films and IMDB puts The Man With The Golden Gun on par with On Her Majesty's Secret Service, For Your Eyes Only, and The Living Daylights and above Licence To Kill. I don't care for review sites in general.
Trash
Wish we had more Felix and bond in the field also I enjoyed pamola
The movie is great considering the efforts made by the writers, directors, actors, etc. in that dynamic world of 2019, where we saw most of these iconic characters "REMOVE THEMSELVES AWAY." It fulfills the continuity of the franchise, though. But, what I feel went wrong is that the movie, rather than being a DC Farewell, went on to become divisive. The action is present, the lines are present, the characters are present ( except Cuba scene is amazing, which is bipartisan ), but everything is rather DULL that we know everything is gone, bit-by-bit !!! If it was to be really a farewell to DC it should have ended with a much hopeful/ thrilled end rather than exploiting the viewer emotion at its best .
I think the film is decent overall, but it felt like a letdown as far as being a sendoff for Craig's run as Bond. That said, it's at least a better film than Spectre was.
I’d put it at 4 out of 5 for Craig, and give it a 5 out of 10 overall. It’s a fine movie with great action but glaring flaws.
I think it’s just slightly better than QoS. NTTD is just overshadowed by Skyfall & Casino Royale.
RELEASE THE FULL DAMN SCORE FOR HEAVENS SAKE
It was good, I gave it 4.5/5 on letterboxd
I've had this sitting on my shelf for a long time, I'm not sure why I haven't gotten around to watching it yet considering I'm a big fan of the rest of them. I can't say anything for certain because I haven't seen it, but I do wonder if people are letting the ending color their opinion of the whole movie, sort of like they did with TLJ. Just because you don't like something that happens in it doesn't mean the whole movie is trash. But again, it might be bad, I have no idea.
Fire 🔥
It’s not a terrible film but I don’t think it’s a particularly good film either. I think it’s a beautiful & extremely well directed film. I thought that Craig was fantastic. The interplay between him, M, Q & Moneypenny, was great, with M contributing one of the funniest moments in years (when he confirmed that Bond had been staying with Q.) The Cuba scenes were terrific, although I don’t love Paloma as much as some other members of this sub. I loved the theme song, and I was delightful it won the Oscar. However, I have multiple issues with it. While I don’t have an issue with Craig’s Bond dying, I remain unconvinced that it was necessary. The manner of his death was massively disappointing, and it was obvious that the entire script was geared towards his death. I also have no idea what Safin wanted. Malek is a fantastic actor, but Safin was a massive letdown. He wasn’t menacing & it didn’t help that he was basically Dr No. No was one of the greatest villains of all time, Safin never came close. Blofeld’s death was incredibly disappointing, and it built upon the disgraceful way with which Blofeld was treated. I also despise Nomi. She’s almost certainly my all-time least favourite Bond character. Madeleine wasn’t terrible, but the relationship between her & Bond was a little odd (he thought she had betrayed him so I’m not sure how much trust there was, but then we’re meant to forget about it). For that matter, I didn’t particularly care about the child, and while it kinda made sense why Safin was obsessed with Madeleine, the film didn’t build on it. Them being of similar ages was also weird. Finally, I didn’t like the references to OHMSS. They only served to show how superior OHMSS was to NTTD, as well as much more emotionally devastating.
Love it apart from the end Cuba was awesome...the Raid homage shoot out was awesome...Italy was awesome...the ship was awesome... soundtrack was awesome...the cars were awesome....what's not to like...