Totally understandable! I only keep kosher-style but not kosher (I look for a hechsher shopping, but eat at non-kosher restaurants) & don't keep Shabbat. However, I'm gonna link to a [Chabad article](https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/621035/jewish/Id-Feel-Hypocritical-Wearing-a-Kippah-Full-Time.htm) that helped me feel comfortable with it!
I only daven in the mornings/night with v'ahavta & am just starting to incorporate brachot into my life (still forget to say them most of the time haha), but that's further along that I was at this time last year. You gotta let yourself go on this journey at a pace that's sustainable. It's never all or nothing, & Hashem loves every mitzvah (I know wearing a kippah isn't actually a mitzvah in the strict 613 sense, but you get what I mean)! B"H, best of luck with you journey!
It's a journey and it sounds like you're really growing. I felt a bit this way too when I started wearing my kippah to work. But I also just kept kosher style and would eat at restaurants and one day this rabbi came up to me and started speaking Hebrew and I had no idea what he was saying but he was lecturing me about the restaurant š
Noodle & company
I was under the impression some Jews donāt want non Jews to see someone who is on the more observant side not following the rules. I guess you can satisfy those people as long as you donāt eat things the average non Jew would immediately notice as non kosher like lobster or bacon or something.
We donāt like Jews for Jesus appropriating our customs in the name of a different religion. Anyone who has a problem with a fellow Jew wearing a kippah is a complete dick, so donāt worry about what they think!!
^ This! Judaism is a faith and culture, Not a "club", and not to make anyone paranoid, but when/if "they come," historically speaking, will "they" care if your half by your Father's side, Sephardic or Ashkenazi, Haredi or Hiloni, etc.? You be you.
I don't think hypocrital is the problem: it's ma'arit ayin or Chillul Hashem that's the problem. Ma'arit Ayin is when an observant person (which people will assume you are if you're wearing a kipah) is seen violating a prohibition, like eating non-kosher food. Among other things, it may cause other people to think that the food/restaurant must be kosher or that guy with the kippah wouldn't be eating there.
Chillul Hashem -- a defamation of God's name -- is caused if an identifiable Jew (so even a Magen David wearer but worse if you appear to be a religious Jew) behaves badly to his fellow human beings. Hopefully, that's self-explanatory.
Yeah, thatās why I stopped wearing mine. Didnāt want to confuse people about observance when I had too loosen my observance because of dietary needs in the family.
Mfers when the laws brought by the creator of the universe are not bound to one book:
The Jews have received not one Torah, but two. One is written and the other is oral. If you don't believe in one of them, of course everything will confuse you. That isn't our problem though
It is mentioned plenty. Obviously there isn't a verse like "and god gave them a whole other Torah" but there also isn't a verse that says the opposite. Basically every time the bible said "and then God told them commandments" and doesn't really elaborate - that's the oral Torah.
Besides, the bible isn't applicable without the oral Torah. God said do not steal, is that applied even when I steal something worth only a few cents? He said do not murder, so if I beat up someone and my friend gives the last blow, am I all good? He said you should honor your parents. How do you do that? Just whatever you feel like? All those details were given in the oral Torah, which is why the Christians who don't believe in it just completely abolished all the commandments. They're just not applicable without specific instructions.
> if I beat up someone and my friend gives the last blow, am I all good
You're good but your friend is in hot water for violating "thou shall not kill-steal" Mirshetet 2:12
Alright
According to what you're saying. God game commandments. Which you say is OBVIOUSLY the oral torah. How do you know there wasn't a third fourth and fifth torah?
Sounds like you are interpreting the bible in whatever way suits you.
Second, you mentioned the bible isn't applicable without the oral torah. So when god told (I don't remember to who exactly) be fruitful and multiply obviously they needed a rabbi to explain those things to them.
To your credit you do bring up one absurd thing,
"How do you do that, just however you feel like?" In some context.
Doesn't including the oral torah based on no scripture also doing "what you feel like" because of your tradition?
Two things. If you think the oral Torah isn't based on any scripture you've clearly never studied it. Secondly, if you don't remember who the first commandment in the Torah was given to (it was to Adam and Eve), then you should probably go reread it. I think this will be the last message I'll reply to because of all that.
Also, just to preface, I didn't say that the oral Torah was the commandments themselves, but they do explain how you should apply them.
We know that no fifth or sixth Torah was given because those two were given AT THE SAME time and God clearly stated that is the entirety of it.
And yes, just as any commandment, that too will need the oral Torah to be applied. Does it matter if the kids are made out of wedlock? Or if the son is a bastard, which is forbidden in the Torah? How many kids is enough, just one, or do I need to multiply many times? If you just go with "whatever you feel like" then you're basically twisting God's words, because God meant you should "generally bring kids" and "generally honor your parents".
You say it was clearly stated but you don't say where. At this point it's just as believe as the phrase "trust me bro".
There is Only one torah. Oral torah is only a traditional thing. Like wearing a kipa or a tefilin.
I tried keeping it civil and you tried the same, I appreciate it
God bless you
Because it was passed down from generation to generation. Part of judaism is the belief that the oral Torah can be traced back, student to master, all the way back to Moshe Rabenu. The Torah doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Oh yea. It was passed down from generation to generation. So far back that it is consistent between jews from other parts of the world. It's very old.
My argument is that the actual old testament or torah are older.
If it was passed to moses from god. Why isn't it mentioned?
A big thing of the oral Torah was that it was, well, oral. It was forbidden to even write it down so it was kept passed down orally. This caused things to get fuzzy, so before it was lost they decided it was best to write it down than to lose it.
So, many differences between variants are just debates on how to interpret things rabbis said, and a good chunk of them aren't even that, they're just things rabbis added on for one reason or another (like forbidding you from playing instruments in shabbat, so that you don't try to fix them, which is forbidden, if they break). Those extra things are indeed new.
(as for the Kippah, other than to pray and study it is not actually mandatory, that *is* more of a custom)
Ok I see how that can make sense. Personally I do think it's a bit of a stretch but it makes sense historically at least. To each his own I guess.
Thank you
Well yes. In fact itās common to see religions using traditions to help them interpret scripture. Difference is that Karaites donāt think Talmud is the only guide
Yes, it was just a comment in relation to the original comment of the kippah law not being in the Bible. Even if you given the Karaite tradition as an example for biblical only Judaism, they still follow the kippah oral law.
Just part of the Jewish oral tradition.
Itās pretty much a given to this areas culture. Head coverings to symbolize a pact between god and his believers is not uncommon in this area, from the Egyptians to Caanites to Assyrians.. Itās part of worship
Judaism is Caanite culture, so is the kippah. Itās a cultural thing as much as Judaism is in general.
If you believe in god Judaism is not a cultural thing. The kipa might symbolize the covenant between god and man but it's unbiblical*. Only something cultural that developed later on
I say the bible because it's more intuitive to write "the bible" rather than "the old testament" or the "torah". Regardless the bible contains both it and the new testament
If you believe in Hashem you accept the tribal cultural identity of the Jews. There is more to Hashem than the solely the Bible, thatās just Judaism as it is. How it developed. Wearing a kippah is a thousand year pact.
From the Samaritans to Jews, itās follows the same path of Hashemās teachings.
āif you believe in Hashem you accept the tribal cultural identity of the Jews"
-Why? We don't live in tribes anymore.
"There is more to Hashem than solely the Bible"
-oh yeah. But everything else is human interpretation of how to live act and behave. If you think humans are smart enough to replace god in their teachings and we follow the teachings of man rather than those of god so I don't think this is right... At all...
First of all, Hashem didnāt write the Bible (Tanakh), humans who were following him through oral tradition did. In particular the group of Samaritans and Jews living in the ancient area of Israel.
Why believe in God then? We donāt live in the past anymore. Thatās a bit silly of a question.
If you want to follow Judaism and Hashem, Judaism is a tribal religion. That is the pact between the Jewish people and Hashem.
You can say religion is human interpretation as well. I donāt really get the point of your silly argument, you can argue the Bible is a human interpretation. Then, It might sound blasphemous to a Christian as much as criticizing aspects of the thousand year Jewish tradition belief system sounds to a believing Jewish person.
"Why believe in God then? We donāt live in the past anymore. Thatās a bit silly of a question."
I like that question. I believe that despite the fact that humans have progressed a lot we still need God's guidence and wisdom. It's like the story of the tower of Babel where people thought they could build a tower to reach god. That didn't work out for them in the end...
"I donāt really get the point of your silly argument, you can argue the Bible is a human interpretation."
It may or it may not be but it's the closes thing we have to the words of god. Although I do notice a contredition. I didn't read ALL of it to be fair so there might be some tribal teachings
I personally am a Christian and the bible is very important to me, besides me living in israel and feeling connected to the culture. I value the importance of Judaism and I don't know how far it has gone from what it originally was.
regardless, thank you for chatting :)
Shabat Shalom
I want to but I don't keep kosher yet and it feels hypocritical
Totally understandable! I only keep kosher-style but not kosher (I look for a hechsher shopping, but eat at non-kosher restaurants) & don't keep Shabbat. However, I'm gonna link to a [Chabad article](https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/621035/jewish/Id-Feel-Hypocritical-Wearing-a-Kippah-Full-Time.htm) that helped me feel comfortable with it! I only daven in the mornings/night with v'ahavta & am just starting to incorporate brachot into my life (still forget to say them most of the time haha), but that's further along that I was at this time last year. You gotta let yourself go on this journey at a pace that's sustainable. It's never all or nothing, & Hashem loves every mitzvah (I know wearing a kippah isn't actually a mitzvah in the strict 613 sense, but you get what I mean)! B"H, best of luck with you journey!
It's a journey and it sounds like you're really growing. I felt a bit this way too when I started wearing my kippah to work. But I also just kept kosher style and would eat at restaurants and one day this rabbi came up to me and started speaking Hebrew and I had no idea what he was saying but he was lecturing me about the restaurant š Noodle & company
So why are you wearing a kippah šššš
Donāt feel that way. We keep (or donāt keep) kosher for a completely different reason than why we wear a kippah. If you want to, wear it!
I was under the impression some Jews donāt want non Jews to see someone who is on the more observant side not following the rules. I guess you can satisfy those people as long as you donāt eat things the average non Jew would immediately notice as non kosher like lobster or bacon or something.
We donāt like Jews for Jesus appropriating our customs in the name of a different religion. Anyone who has a problem with a fellow Jew wearing a kippah is a complete dick, so donāt worry about what they think!!
In most of the country, there is literally not a single food the average non Jew would immediately notice as treyf, including what you listed
You can wear a kippah and not even keep shabbat man it's up to you
Do as many Jewish things as you feel comfortable. Don't let anyone, even yourself, tell you you shouldn't or can't be Jewish enough for X.
^ This! Judaism is a faith and culture, Not a "club", and not to make anyone paranoid, but when/if "they come," historically speaking, will "they" care if your half by your Father's side, Sephardic or Ashkenazi, Haredi or Hiloni, etc.? You be you.
I don't think hypocrital is the problem: it's ma'arit ayin or Chillul Hashem that's the problem. Ma'arit Ayin is when an observant person (which people will assume you are if you're wearing a kipah) is seen violating a prohibition, like eating non-kosher food. Among other things, it may cause other people to think that the food/restaurant must be kosher or that guy with the kippah wouldn't be eating there. Chillul Hashem -- a defamation of God's name -- is caused if an identifiable Jew (so even a Magen David wearer but worse if you appear to be a religious Jew) behaves badly to his fellow human beings. Hopefully, that's self-explanatory.
That too!
NY Chassidim don't care about Chullul Hashem at all aparently.
Bro Iāve eaten pulled pork with a kippah on. Itās not a package deal.
I've found thar wearing a star of David helps me with that desire
why, do what you want
Yeah, thatās why I stopped wearing mine. Didnāt want to confuse people about observance when I had too loosen my observance because of dietary needs in the family.
Haha, know the feeling!Ā
Keep strong and be proud of yourself king.
Kippot are the gateway drug of Judaism.
Ah, i see male pattern baldness runs in your family.
Legit, how I felt visiting the Western Wall for the first time, lol
I see you also have the infinity stones too š
Depends how Jewish I am feeling on the day š
Iām scared to tbh, but I always wear a hat.
me because i just started keeping partial shomer negiah
Gotta love how Rabbinic Judaism is vastly different from early Yahwism and Second Temple Judaism.
This fit and the 7 candle menorah always goes hard šš
The drip Israel. And the Lord said thy high priest shall be dripped out and it was good.
Except it's not mentioned even once in the bible and is only a cultural thing
Iām not taking seriously any āwell ACTUALLYā statements about Judaism from someone who calls the Tanakh āThe Bibleā.
No bro, have a nice day
Np*
Mfers when the laws brought by the creator of the universe are not bound to one book: The Jews have received not one Torah, but two. One is written and the other is oral. If you don't believe in one of them, of course everything will confuse you. That isn't our problem though
Why isn't the oral torah mentioned in the non oral torah?
It is mentioned plenty. Obviously there isn't a verse like "and god gave them a whole other Torah" but there also isn't a verse that says the opposite. Basically every time the bible said "and then God told them commandments" and doesn't really elaborate - that's the oral Torah. Besides, the bible isn't applicable without the oral Torah. God said do not steal, is that applied even when I steal something worth only a few cents? He said do not murder, so if I beat up someone and my friend gives the last blow, am I all good? He said you should honor your parents. How do you do that? Just whatever you feel like? All those details were given in the oral Torah, which is why the Christians who don't believe in it just completely abolished all the commandments. They're just not applicable without specific instructions.
> if I beat up someone and my friend gives the last blow, am I all good You're good but your friend is in hot water for violating "thou shall not kill-steal" Mirshetet 2:12
Alright According to what you're saying. God game commandments. Which you say is OBVIOUSLY the oral torah. How do you know there wasn't a third fourth and fifth torah? Sounds like you are interpreting the bible in whatever way suits you. Second, you mentioned the bible isn't applicable without the oral torah. So when god told (I don't remember to who exactly) be fruitful and multiply obviously they needed a rabbi to explain those things to them. To your credit you do bring up one absurd thing, "How do you do that, just however you feel like?" In some context. Doesn't including the oral torah based on no scripture also doing "what you feel like" because of your tradition?
Two things. If you think the oral Torah isn't based on any scripture you've clearly never studied it. Secondly, if you don't remember who the first commandment in the Torah was given to (it was to Adam and Eve), then you should probably go reread it. I think this will be the last message I'll reply to because of all that. Also, just to preface, I didn't say that the oral Torah was the commandments themselves, but they do explain how you should apply them. We know that no fifth or sixth Torah was given because those two were given AT THE SAME time and God clearly stated that is the entirety of it. And yes, just as any commandment, that too will need the oral Torah to be applied. Does it matter if the kids are made out of wedlock? Or if the son is a bastard, which is forbidden in the Torah? How many kids is enough, just one, or do I need to multiply many times? If you just go with "whatever you feel like" then you're basically twisting God's words, because God meant you should "generally bring kids" and "generally honor your parents".
You say it was clearly stated but you don't say where. At this point it's just as believe as the phrase "trust me bro". There is Only one torah. Oral torah is only a traditional thing. Like wearing a kipa or a tefilin. I tried keeping it civil and you tried the same, I appreciate it God bless you
Username checks out. Who let the messianics in?
What's wrong with being a messianic
Yes.
Because it was passed down from generation to generation. Part of judaism is the belief that the oral Torah can be traced back, student to master, all the way back to Moshe Rabenu. The Torah doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Oh yea. It was passed down from generation to generation. So far back that it is consistent between jews from other parts of the world. It's very old. My argument is that the actual old testament or torah are older. If it was passed to moses from god. Why isn't it mentioned?
A big thing of the oral Torah was that it was, well, oral. It was forbidden to even write it down so it was kept passed down orally. This caused things to get fuzzy, so before it was lost they decided it was best to write it down than to lose it. So, many differences between variants are just debates on how to interpret things rabbis said, and a good chunk of them aren't even that, they're just things rabbis added on for one reason or another (like forbidding you from playing instruments in shabbat, so that you don't try to fix them, which is forbidden, if they break). Those extra things are indeed new. (as for the Kippah, other than to pray and study it is not actually mandatory, that *is* more of a custom)
Ok I see how that can make sense. Personally I do think it's a bit of a stretch but it makes sense historically at least. To each his own I guess. Thank you
Talk to Karaite Jews instead if u want Torah only Judaism
Even karaite Jews cover their heads hah
Ok yes and?
The point is itās not Torah only Judaism to them either really.. They follow oral law costumes
Well yes. In fact itās common to see religions using traditions to help them interpret scripture. Difference is that Karaites donāt think Talmud is the only guide
Yes, it was just a comment in relation to the original comment of the kippah law not being in the Bible. Even if you given the Karaite tradition as an example for biblical only Judaism, they still follow the kippah oral law. Just part of the Jewish oral tradition.
Why don't you at least open a Wikipedia article about the kippah before you mmmm state your wrong opinion so surely
Just like most of today judaism
Pretty much.
Itās pretty much a given to this areas culture. Head coverings to symbolize a pact between god and his believers is not uncommon in this area, from the Egyptians to Caanites to Assyrians.. Itās part of worship Judaism is Caanite culture, so is the kippah. Itās a cultural thing as much as Judaism is in general.
If you believe in god Judaism is not a cultural thing. The kipa might symbolize the covenant between god and man but it's unbiblical*. Only something cultural that developed later on I say the bible because it's more intuitive to write "the bible" rather than "the old testament" or the "torah". Regardless the bible contains both it and the new testament
If you believe in Hashem you accept the tribal cultural identity of the Jews. There is more to Hashem than the solely the Bible, thatās just Judaism as it is. How it developed. Wearing a kippah is a thousand year pact. From the Samaritans to Jews, itās follows the same path of Hashemās teachings.
āif you believe in Hashem you accept the tribal cultural identity of the Jews" -Why? We don't live in tribes anymore. "There is more to Hashem than solely the Bible" -oh yeah. But everything else is human interpretation of how to live act and behave. If you think humans are smart enough to replace god in their teachings and we follow the teachings of man rather than those of god so I don't think this is right... At all...
First of all, Hashem didnāt write the Bible (Tanakh), humans who were following him through oral tradition did. In particular the group of Samaritans and Jews living in the ancient area of Israel. Why believe in God then? We donāt live in the past anymore. Thatās a bit silly of a question. If you want to follow Judaism and Hashem, Judaism is a tribal religion. That is the pact between the Jewish people and Hashem. You can say religion is human interpretation as well. I donāt really get the point of your silly argument, you can argue the Bible is a human interpretation. Then, It might sound blasphemous to a Christian as much as criticizing aspects of the thousand year Jewish tradition belief system sounds to a believing Jewish person.
"Why believe in God then? We donāt live in the past anymore. Thatās a bit silly of a question." I like that question. I believe that despite the fact that humans have progressed a lot we still need God's guidence and wisdom. It's like the story of the tower of Babel where people thought they could build a tower to reach god. That didn't work out for them in the end... "I donāt really get the point of your silly argument, you can argue the Bible is a human interpretation." It may or it may not be but it's the closes thing we have to the words of god. Although I do notice a contredition. I didn't read ALL of it to be fair so there might be some tribal teachings I personally am a Christian and the bible is very important to me, besides me living in israel and feeling connected to the culture. I value the importance of Judaism and I don't know how far it has gone from what it originally was. regardless, thank you for chatting :) Shabat Shalom
Godās guidance and wisdom is still interpreted the way it is through Judaism. Judaism follows oral law in part, as it did prior to writing the Bible. It tells the tale of oral law throughout the book. Tribal affiliation is an important part of the Bible. A bit confused about your stance as a Christian, given the historical evidence of the region that is more closely related to Jewish and Samaritan interpretation than it is to the Christian one (even though you can argue Christianity originated for Israel) Christianity made changes. My Shabbat didnāt get here yet, currently abroad but thank you. ש××Ŗ ש×××