The last public interview the Ramsey's gave was on a TV evangelist station in Hawaii. The moderator preacher asked them about the pageant scene and JB's involvement. Both Patsy and John brushed it off as if the pageants were just a side thing that only a bunch of grandmothers attended. They totally minimized it.Sorry I don't have a link but the video might still be available, somewhere.
Absolutely right. I was contacting that church for months about uploading that interview. They first uploaded it on Venmo.
Part one of the interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fwJGsszbPQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fwJGsszbPQ)
Part two of the interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehCCjFlA27Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehCCjFlA27Y)
Here is an article about that interview:
[starbulletin.com | News | /2006/08/18/](https://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/08/18/news/story02.html)
Yes, they both blew it off, and that was false. The pageants took a LOT of time, effort and MONEY.
One of the actresses that performed at JonBenet's last performance at the mall posted here last December with photos. She said JonBenet was the only child in full hair and makeup. The actors and actresses were not allowed to wear makeup, they wanted to see the child's talent.
It's not like Simon Cowell was going to be at a Boulder mall on 12/22/96. Patsy went all out all the time. *Appearances were of huge importance to her.*
A man called into the Peter Boyles show in approximately 2012 when he was doing an anniversary show on this case. He saw JonBenet at the Christmas parade of lights. it was very cold that night, and JonBenet was shivering, *because Patsy told her to keep her coat off so people could see her in her pageant outfit, hair and makeup." He offered the shivering child some hot chocolate to warm her up. A very SAD story.*
From the article about the Hawaii trip you posted:
>Au, who still keeps in touch with John Ramsey, said the decision to invite the Ramseys to Hawaii was controversial.
>"A lot of people still believed they killed their daughter," she said, "but you couldn't be with them for 10 minutes and still believe they killed their daughter."
The Ramseys were (and John continues to be) good at what they do. But, as Abraham Lincoln said, "you can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
Thank you very very much for posting the video's and the article and contacting the church. I believe Patsy passed on just a few months after this interview was made. I urge everyone who has not yet seen this interview to please watch it. Sexualizing a 4-6 yr. old little girl like that and then practically denying it ever happened is an outright lie.All the pics of her ,all the vids, and they downplay all that? That one pic of JB pretending to be Marilyn Monroe was ,in my estimation, crossing the line. This little girl was pleasing her demented mother and somewhere along the line it all came crashing down.
I study psychology and I sometimes wonder what JonBenet would have been like today. There’s no doubt in my mind she would have had issues related to her self-esteem growing up, I mean she already did as a kindergartener!
There were also comments from her about not wanting to eat McDonalds because it "makes you look fat" a skinny little 6-year-old doesn’t think these kind of things unless she heard it from someone else.
Probably from Patsy, who had put on quite a bit of weight in recent years, and who drank Slimfast all the time… 🤔
Yes, not only JonBenet, but Burke also.
Burke plaintively asked his mother "Mom, am I fat", a lanky kid without any fat on him. He then said he was asking because "why are people oohing and aahing over her?
[07211998lindawilcoxon-PETER BOYLES.htm (tripod.com)](https://thewebsafe.tripod.com/07211998lindawilcoxon-pb.htm)
So sad.
That's terribly sad. For me it makes it more likely that he had an explosive temper with JonBenet. They weren't doing those kids any favours. It's not a phrase you see much any more, but "poor little rich kids"
That recalls to mind “I’m Glad My Mother Died”, by Jeanette McCurdy. An extreme quintessential stage mother. It was a good read (or listen, as the author reads it herself for the audiobook)
Definitely, she was being raised to believe that her appearance was her identity, and that would have affected her badly as an adult.
Especially seeing her education was so imbalanced - at this point her public speaking was advanced, but her reading and writing were not so great. So the only education that mattered was whatever could get her ahead in the pageant.
The lies on her "resume" would have made me laugh if it all wasn't so sad. Speaking French and playing the violin? Both easy things to prove or disprove. I assume she was being taught how to lie as well as dance. I gather even kids' pageants want well rounded individuals so why not something that she could really do, that might be fun and more age appropriate? Trampoline, batons, gymnastics, singing or *age appropriate dancing* or singing.
Yes, those Monday visits mentioned in the post were to the school nurse. Very possible that something was happening to her on the weekends. JB's teachers also noted that for the past few weeks she had become unusually clingy to Patsy.
I just read this book again. One set of quotes stand out. John and Patsy when asked by Steve Thomas whether they would take lie detector tests -
Patsy "Yes, I would pass it....I'll take ten of them"
John "What I've been told is that I felt tremendous guilt after we lost JonBenet because I hadn't protected her. You know, I'd failed as a parent. I was told that with that kind of emotion, you shouldn't take a lie detector test because you do have that guilt feeling."
Well said. I have two young daughters and I can't imagine. I feel especially put off by the Boulder dance teacher commenting that (paraphrasing here) it was more so the Patsy Show when she would come in for practice and that Patsy would change up her choreo for sexier moves without asking.
Weird because Patsy and John didn't have a sex life, according to their housekeepers. The only person that had to be sexy in their household was JonBenét.
**PETER BOYLES: What was the relationship, to the best of your knowledge, it's my understanding that the Ramseys would speak in front of anyone about anything because the help was seen as part of the furniture? First of all, is that fair? And second of all, what do you think their relationship was like?**
**LINDA WILCOX: That's a relatively fair assessment, some were closer than others like the nanny for instance was a little closer. But, as far as I was concerned, I was furniture. The relationship was amiable and polite for the most part. It was a business relationship. They didn't..they weren't affectionate, they didn't act like a married couple, if I had seen them anywhere else, I would have assumed they were business associates. That's pretty much how it was. She was like his secretary, not his wife. As far as I can tell from making the bed, the sheets weren't (sorry, couldn't tell what she said).**
**PETER BOYLES: You said to me in another conversation, when you clean people's homes you can tell what their sex lives are like, what their personal lives are like. This may be putting you on the spot a little bit, but you told me that you believed the Ramseys did not have sex.**
**LINDA WILCOX: To my knowledge, and from other people that worked there, I don't believe so. At least, not on a regular basis. Certainly not on weekends, because I was there on Mondays. Um, like I said, it wasn't an affectionate relationship. I have a client currently, I've never met. I know her favorite colore, I know her hobbies, I know her cat's name, I know her husband's name, I know they are rather affectionate, you know, they leave little notes to each other, little comments, little things with hearts on them all over the house. I can tell you, basically, what they're like and what kind of people they are and I've never met them.**
**PETER BOYLES: And yet when it comes to John and Patsy, or it came to John and Patsy...**
**LINDA WILCOX: It was not an affectionate relationship. Another thing that struck me as odd. When Patsy was at her worst, she was really ill, she was in the hospital, she had undergone surgery, there were a few time she (illegible) and she came very close to death. Nedra was out in the waiting area with the rosary while she was in surgery, or Nedra was at her side. John Ramsey was not.**
[Source](https://thewebsafe.tripod.com/07211998lindawilcoxon-pb.htm)
I agree with your opinion but where does it say JonBenet was crying? It sounds more like it was Patsy crying because of the risk to her daughter's looks.
ETA never mind. I'm a ditz who should check if there's more than one photo! I have to wonder what her classmates thought (and said) about her exhibition for them. All 5 and 6 yo should think they're the best at something. And they're usually keen to show you....even if it's only fitting a whole sandwich in their mouth! I don't think they'd be that interested in another kid 'showing off", as they'd see it, and I think they'd want to show what they could do too.
Yes. Very weird. I really can't see it making her popular with the other kids. I'm also puzzled that more isn't made of the huge number of ER and doctors' visits. It shrieks abuse to me. I had two very active impulsive boys and got very nervous the third time one ended up in ER in a year!
The doctor's records were never given to law enforcement. It would have told the story. If there were signs of abuse, the doctor would have been liable for non-reporting.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandated_reporter#History
Since the 1960's actually. Doctors were the first category of the mandatory reporters, since they are frequently the first people to observe the child's injuries.
Thanks. Was it only for SA, because that's very early days when considering physical abuse, which was so common then.
ETA thanks for the link. I'll check there.
If you sexualize your 6 year old to win trophies that make you feel good, you are probably plum nuts. Wouldn’t be surprise if Patsy was abused. She is from West Virginia where the family trees don’t fork.
Who knows, maybe JonBenet had such a distorted sense of what "pretty" was from all the beauty competitions, that when she wasn't in professionally done makeup, hair, and glitter outfits she felt unpretty. Impossible standards were imposed on her at such a young age.
But why JB said that is simply unknowable to us.
Or Patsy wasn't satisfied with her appearance that night. I think that fits with her not saying who said it. At 6, your parents are the center of the world and they create the structure for reality. If someone else said something mean, it's "Mommy, he was mean." If Mommy said something mean, it's a fact.
Perhaps it was because of the dress she was wearing to the party that day and not being allowed to choose what she wore, she was upset about the matching outfits Patsy wanted her to wear to the Whites Party too - it sounds like JB was rebelling a little regarding what her mother wanted and what she herself wanted (& found pretty)
I think so too. Across all theories, if it was an obsessed intruder, a sexually abusive father, a narcissistic mother reliving her glory days, and maybe even a little brother with behavioral issues.. her being, in Patsy’s words, “on show” put her in a seriously dangerous situation. Even if she had never been killed, its hard to imagine what traumas she might’ve endured throughout her years because of the involvement in pageants. As a child I used to watch Toddlers & Tiaras and Dance Moms because I thought it looked fun to be a “stage girl” at a young age. Their mothers were *soo involved* with them and I was jealous of that, too. Of course with a developed frontal lobe I can see that the mothers were involved in all the wrong ways.. and besides little girls who want to be beauty queens, who the f is watching those shows? As a mother I genuinely can’t grasp the mindset. Its the horrors of the modeling industry, but forced onto a child who’s learning how to spell. It’s insane.
Well I think the fact she was treated as an adult in terms of how she looked was what got her killed.
It’s pretty obvious the only plausible explanation to the crime is John was abusing her and killed her as part of this or because of the consequences perhaps. She’d been made to look like an adult beauty queen, John had married a beauty queen himself.
That’s sad about her crying like that….
I agree, regardless of who “did it” her parents weren’t protecting her and were essentially throwing her out to the wolves. The pageant world is vile. I feel like well meaning parents who put their children in it don’t stick around there long once they see it themselves. Patsy knew it well before she ever even had JonBenèt, so she doesn’t have naivety as an excuse.
Agree, & it’s upsetting to me that they never faced any legal consequences whatsoever. Several experts concluded that there was evidence of prior SA yet they did nothing about it. At that age how do you not know your child is being SA??
Interesting that the plastic surgeon said Patsy was overreacting after Burke hit JonBenét with his golf club, then Burke used the exact same term to describe his mother after JonBenét was missing.
The last public interview the Ramsey's gave was on a TV evangelist station in Hawaii. The moderator preacher asked them about the pageant scene and JB's involvement. Both Patsy and John brushed it off as if the pageants were just a side thing that only a bunch of grandmothers attended. They totally minimized it.Sorry I don't have a link but the video might still be available, somewhere.
Absolutely right. I was contacting that church for months about uploading that interview. They first uploaded it on Venmo. Part one of the interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fwJGsszbPQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fwJGsszbPQ) Part two of the interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehCCjFlA27Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehCCjFlA27Y) Here is an article about that interview: [starbulletin.com | News | /2006/08/18/](https://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/08/18/news/story02.html) Yes, they both blew it off, and that was false. The pageants took a LOT of time, effort and MONEY. One of the actresses that performed at JonBenet's last performance at the mall posted here last December with photos. She said JonBenet was the only child in full hair and makeup. The actors and actresses were not allowed to wear makeup, they wanted to see the child's talent. It's not like Simon Cowell was going to be at a Boulder mall on 12/22/96. Patsy went all out all the time. *Appearances were of huge importance to her.* A man called into the Peter Boyles show in approximately 2012 when he was doing an anniversary show on this case. He saw JonBenet at the Christmas parade of lights. it was very cold that night, and JonBenet was shivering, *because Patsy told her to keep her coat off so people could see her in her pageant outfit, hair and makeup." He offered the shivering child some hot chocolate to warm her up. A very SAD story.*
From the article about the Hawaii trip you posted: >Au, who still keeps in touch with John Ramsey, said the decision to invite the Ramseys to Hawaii was controversial. >"A lot of people still believed they killed their daughter," she said, "but you couldn't be with them for 10 minutes and still believe they killed their daughter." The Ramseys were (and John continues to be) good at what they do. But, as Abraham Lincoln said, "you can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
Thank you very very much for posting the video's and the article and contacting the church. I believe Patsy passed on just a few months after this interview was made. I urge everyone who has not yet seen this interview to please watch it. Sexualizing a 4-6 yr. old little girl like that and then practically denying it ever happened is an outright lie.All the pics of her ,all the vids, and they downplay all that? That one pic of JB pretending to be Marilyn Monroe was ,in my estimation, crossing the line. This little girl was pleasing her demented mother and somewhere along the line it all came crashing down.
I study psychology and I sometimes wonder what JonBenet would have been like today. There’s no doubt in my mind she would have had issues related to her self-esteem growing up, I mean she already did as a kindergartener! There were also comments from her about not wanting to eat McDonalds because it "makes you look fat" a skinny little 6-year-old doesn’t think these kind of things unless she heard it from someone else. Probably from Patsy, who had put on quite a bit of weight in recent years, and who drank Slimfast all the time… 🤔
Yes, not only JonBenet, but Burke also. Burke plaintively asked his mother "Mom, am I fat", a lanky kid without any fat on him. He then said he was asking because "why are people oohing and aahing over her? [07211998lindawilcoxon-PETER BOYLES.htm (tripod.com)](https://thewebsafe.tripod.com/07211998lindawilcoxon-pb.htm) So sad.
That's terribly sad. For me it makes it more likely that he had an explosive temper with JonBenet. They weren't doing those kids any favours. It's not a phrase you see much any more, but "poor little rich kids"
That recalls to mind “I’m Glad My Mother Died”, by Jeanette McCurdy. An extreme quintessential stage mother. It was a good read (or listen, as the author reads it herself for the audiobook)
Welcome to the 90s!
Definitely, she was being raised to believe that her appearance was her identity, and that would have affected her badly as an adult. Especially seeing her education was so imbalanced - at this point her public speaking was advanced, but her reading and writing were not so great. So the only education that mattered was whatever could get her ahead in the pageant.
The lies on her "resume" would have made me laugh if it all wasn't so sad. Speaking French and playing the violin? Both easy things to prove or disprove. I assume she was being taught how to lie as well as dance. I gather even kids' pageants want well rounded individuals so why not something that she could really do, that might be fun and more age appropriate? Trampoline, batons, gymnastics, singing or *age appropriate dancing* or singing.
JonBenet did play the violin, not sure how well but it wasn’t really a lie.
So many doctor visits... and most often on Mondays, after the weekend? The implications are horrifying.
Yes, those Monday visits mentioned in the post were to the school nurse. Very possible that something was happening to her on the weekends. JB's teachers also noted that for the past few weeks she had become unusually clingy to Patsy.
Maybe she didn't know well what "pretty" meant. JonBenét also said she wanted to be "sexy" when she was four years old.
That is horrifying. The description of her photos as “sultry” and “Lolita” made me nauseous
It's a disgusting perpetrator tactic called blaming the victim.
I don’t think the author was trying to blame JonBenèt necessarily, but definitely her mother’s portrayal of her appearance.
I just read this book again. One set of quotes stand out. John and Patsy when asked by Steve Thomas whether they would take lie detector tests - Patsy "Yes, I would pass it....I'll take ten of them" John "What I've been told is that I felt tremendous guilt after we lost JonBenet because I hadn't protected her. You know, I'd failed as a parent. I was told that with that kind of emotion, you shouldn't take a lie detector test because you do have that guilt feeling."
Those two quotes tell it all.
That John had something to hide and Patsy had nothing to hide?
My take is: PR was a guilty sociopath - hence the false bravada; and JR knew all the dirt and just acknowledged his inability to play along.
Well said. I have two young daughters and I can't imagine. I feel especially put off by the Boulder dance teacher commenting that (paraphrasing here) it was more so the Patsy Show when she would come in for practice and that Patsy would change up her choreo for sexier moves without asking.
Weird because Patsy and John didn't have a sex life, according to their housekeepers. The only person that had to be sexy in their household was JonBenét.
How would their housekeepers know this?
**PETER BOYLES: What was the relationship, to the best of your knowledge, it's my understanding that the Ramseys would speak in front of anyone about anything because the help was seen as part of the furniture? First of all, is that fair? And second of all, what do you think their relationship was like?** **LINDA WILCOX: That's a relatively fair assessment, some were closer than others like the nanny for instance was a little closer. But, as far as I was concerned, I was furniture. The relationship was amiable and polite for the most part. It was a business relationship. They didn't..they weren't affectionate, they didn't act like a married couple, if I had seen them anywhere else, I would have assumed they were business associates. That's pretty much how it was. She was like his secretary, not his wife. As far as I can tell from making the bed, the sheets weren't (sorry, couldn't tell what she said).** **PETER BOYLES: You said to me in another conversation, when you clean people's homes you can tell what their sex lives are like, what their personal lives are like. This may be putting you on the spot a little bit, but you told me that you believed the Ramseys did not have sex.** **LINDA WILCOX: To my knowledge, and from other people that worked there, I don't believe so. At least, not on a regular basis. Certainly not on weekends, because I was there on Mondays. Um, like I said, it wasn't an affectionate relationship. I have a client currently, I've never met. I know her favorite colore, I know her hobbies, I know her cat's name, I know her husband's name, I know they are rather affectionate, you know, they leave little notes to each other, little comments, little things with hearts on them all over the house. I can tell you, basically, what they're like and what kind of people they are and I've never met them.** **PETER BOYLES: And yet when it comes to John and Patsy, or it came to John and Patsy...** **LINDA WILCOX: It was not an affectionate relationship. Another thing that struck me as odd. When Patsy was at her worst, she was really ill, she was in the hospital, she had undergone surgery, there were a few time she (illegible) and she came very close to death. Nedra was out in the waiting area with the rosary while she was in surgery, or Nedra was at her side. John Ramsey was not.** [Source](https://thewebsafe.tripod.com/07211998lindawilcoxon-pb.htm)
I agree with your opinion but where does it say JonBenet was crying? It sounds more like it was Patsy crying because of the risk to her daughter's looks. ETA never mind. I'm a ditz who should check if there's more than one photo! I have to wonder what her classmates thought (and said) about her exhibition for them. All 5 and 6 yo should think they're the best at something. And they're usually keen to show you....even if it's only fitting a whole sandwich in their mouth! I don't think they'd be that interested in another kid 'showing off", as they'd see it, and I think they'd want to show what they could do too.
It says she was “crying softly” on a stair case in the butlers kitchen
Thats on the last photo, not the one where it talks about the plastic surgeon
Thanks. I had found it and edited my comment to comment on her exhibition at school.
I’ve also wondered how her peers might’ve reacted.. its so bizarre. And the way Patsy refers to it as “a special treat” for the other kids
Yes. Very weird. I really can't see it making her popular with the other kids. I'm also puzzled that more isn't made of the huge number of ER and doctors' visits. It shrieks abuse to me. I had two very active impulsive boys and got very nervous the third time one ended up in ER in a year!
The doctor's records were never given to law enforcement. It would have told the story. If there were signs of abuse, the doctor would have been liable for non-reporting.
I think mandatory reporting wasn't a thing in the nineties. Doctors still claimed patient confidentiality. I'll be happy to be proved wrong, though.
Pretty sure it was. Let me google though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandated_reporter#History Since the 1960's actually. Doctors were the first category of the mandatory reporters, since they are frequently the first people to observe the child's injuries.
Thanks. Was it only for SA, because that's very early days when considering physical abuse, which was so common then. ETA thanks for the link. I'll check there.
If you sexualize your 6 year old to win trophies that make you feel good, you are probably plum nuts. Wouldn’t be surprise if Patsy was abused. She is from West Virginia where the family trees don’t fork.
Just to tie two recent threads together, the Christmas part mentioned on the last page there where she was crying is the one where someone called 911?
Yes, the Christmas party at the Ramseys on the 23rd.
Interesting. I wonder who was taunting her and telling her she wasn’t pretty? Sounds like something a jealous sibling might do.
Who knows, maybe JonBenet had such a distorted sense of what "pretty" was from all the beauty competitions, that when she wasn't in professionally done makeup, hair, and glitter outfits she felt unpretty. Impossible standards were imposed on her at such a young age. But why JB said that is simply unknowable to us.
Maybe. Or somebody that took an interest in her was at that party and ignored her for whatever reason. If you go with IDI or somebody abusing her.
Or Patsy wasn't satisfied with her appearance that night. I think that fits with her not saying who said it. At 6, your parents are the center of the world and they create the structure for reality. If someone else said something mean, it's "Mommy, he was mean." If Mommy said something mean, it's a fact.
Very true
Perhaps it was because of the dress she was wearing to the party that day and not being allowed to choose what she wore, she was upset about the matching outfits Patsy wanted her to wear to the Whites Party too - it sounds like JB was rebelling a little regarding what her mother wanted and what she herself wanted (& found pretty)
Wouldn't she say "Burke said I'm not pretty"? Unless the quote intentionally left his name out.
We have no clue what exactly was said. This isn’t a witness testifying on the stand.
Maybe she meant to say she wasn't happy? Who knows.
OR - Doug Stine. [childhood friends](https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/1854w4x/childhood_friends/)
But of all the times he could do that at home with no one around, why would it be in the chaos of a Christmas party?
Maybe he did it a lot? Maybe this time he did it in front of other kids and it embarrassed her?
Maybe
Or maybe it never happened and Steve is making it up. We are all just speculating here.
They called 911 on the 17th?
Just because a family looks perfect from the outside, that doesn’t mean horrible things aren’t happening at home.
It's heartbreaking to read. There has to be a connection to her murder in this pageant obsession. And that long list of injuries is interesting.
I think so too. Across all theories, if it was an obsessed intruder, a sexually abusive father, a narcissistic mother reliving her glory days, and maybe even a little brother with behavioral issues.. her being, in Patsy’s words, “on show” put her in a seriously dangerous situation. Even if she had never been killed, its hard to imagine what traumas she might’ve endured throughout her years because of the involvement in pageants. As a child I used to watch Toddlers & Tiaras and Dance Moms because I thought it looked fun to be a “stage girl” at a young age. Their mothers were *soo involved* with them and I was jealous of that, too. Of course with a developed frontal lobe I can see that the mothers were involved in all the wrong ways.. and besides little girls who want to be beauty queens, who the f is watching those shows? As a mother I genuinely can’t grasp the mindset. Its the horrors of the modeling industry, but forced onto a child who’s learning how to spell. It’s insane.
So she "fell" a lot. Ok.
Well I think the fact she was treated as an adult in terms of how she looked was what got her killed. It’s pretty obvious the only plausible explanation to the crime is John was abusing her and killed her as part of this or because of the consequences perhaps. She’d been made to look like an adult beauty queen, John had married a beauty queen himself. That’s sad about her crying like that….
I agree, regardless of who “did it” her parents weren’t protecting her and were essentially throwing her out to the wolves. The pageant world is vile. I feel like well meaning parents who put their children in it don’t stick around there long once they see it themselves. Patsy knew it well before she ever even had JonBenèt, so she doesn’t have naivety as an excuse.
Agree, & it’s upsetting to me that they never faced any legal consequences whatsoever. Several experts concluded that there was evidence of prior SA yet they did nothing about it. At that age how do you not know your child is being SA??
Burke is pushing that theory.
How so - what is Burke saying/doing?
It's in his 2016 interview with Dr. Phil. Last time I posted Burke's direct quote Reddit's AI banned me, but it's there.
Breaks my heart
Interesting that the plastic surgeon said Patsy was overreacting after Burke hit JonBenét with his golf club, then Burke used the exact same term to describe his mother after JonBenét was missing.
Worst book ever. I couldn’t make it through. Talk about one track mind. Soooo one sided and BORING. Same stories over and over.