Before that even. They were always referred to as anomalies. Chief Cadmus Delorme (in an interview on Newstalk 650 in S’toon) reiterated that those anomalies were not bodies. There was a similar finding at his first nation in Sk. Its always been the television media that has always presented the anomalies as remains (initially) then it evolved into bodies, mass graves, etc. Chief Delorme tried to put the kybosh on that right away.
To go from “215 children” to 215 cases where it could be “a stone under the ground, it could be a clump of clay, it could be a piece of wood” is a big difference.
Wow seeing these comments I have to say.. all these ppl saying that others will just believe what we are spoon fed to believe then do the EXACT same!! Media says something that ypu think lines up with your belief then it's they are 'professional victims' 'it was never true' 'it was always about the money' no it was always about the children.. do the work go talk to elders.. be prepared to hear the most uncomfortable atrocious stories.. be prepared to feel your emotions broken in half.. be prepared to hear how theses things suffered sometimes not even by them have affected their homes families and more.. it was never about money.. how would you feel if you sent your child to school and they never returned.. or you heard they died.. 'kill the Indian save the man' but here's the most pressing question many natives had 'Did they save the man, or condem him?' I genuinely don't think they did.. many Natives missing, murdered, addicted, struggling to relearn their ways.. 'killing the Indian' has caused identity crisises across the board.. these 'schools' were never schools.. that's the point and children died in their care.. that's the point..
Need another 500 seasons of this [First Contact](https://www.firstcontactcanada.ca/)
>First Contact takes six Canadians, all with stereotypical opinions about Indigenous People, on a unique 28-day exploration of Indigenous Canada. It is a journey that will turn their lives upside down, challenging their perceptions and confronting their prejudices about a world they never imagined.
So agree. Don't let this comment section get you down. These people would never dare say this shit to anybody besides other overt racists in real life.
I'm from Kamloops and I was really fucked up over this discovery. Worse, I didn't even know or realize there was a residential school in Kamloops!
Some of us care.
depending on the age of this person, the school itself is being used by the band as office buildings, if they are too young to know it was a residential school, that doesn't negate the fact that the discovery affected them.
> I'm from Kamloops and I was really fucked up over this discovery. Worse, I didn't even know or realize there was a residential school in Kamloops!
How? Maybe I take the amount of education I have on subjects like this for granted, but how is it possible not to know this?
I've known about this my entire life, was always raised knowing about the terrible things that went on in residential schools and that the government was responsible. This goes through our national news every couple of decades as well. But why do I get the impression that it will quiet down and then in 20-30 years flare up again and people will act as though this is not something widely known or discussed?
I trust the National Post to be about as balanced and fair as our mayor….
They regularly post opinion pieces by the Kay family (including Jonathan of dog shampoo fame) and convicted felon/trump pardonee Conrad Black. Rex Murphy was also quite prolific before he passed.
Of course they’re salivating over a small vocabulary shift, that I’m sure has been used before, because it fits their preferred narrative
Oh please. Don't pretend this is all semantics.
No it wasn't a scam nor were residential schools a lie but you have to admit that we as a nation overreacted.
Not enough people asked critical questions, those that did were often branded as racist and we had this massive outpouring of guilt and reverence over something that very possibly wasn't true. We lowered the flag for the longest time in national history and proclaimed a new national holiday. The biggest national mourning in decades over an unverified claim.
That's not how reasonable people act. That's not how a nation should run.
We should reflect that the response to the "discovery" was overblown and reactionary. Not try to deflect like you are.
Speaking of balanced and fair, everyone I've talked to is under the impression that those anomalies were dead children. All because of shit reporting. Now they're the ones reporting correct information and you're whining about it.
We love the NP, as it allows for critical thinking and is most definitely not a woke virtuous signalling POS source of information. Our only issue with it is its unbending subjective opinion on Israel, the vile IDF and their racist mindless comments on Palestinians. Love their Anti JT stuff though 👍
I think it’s logical to believe that lots of those graves are of children in the “care” of whoever was in charge of running the residential school at the time and the people/government/church based organisations are responsible for their deaths regardless of the individual circumstances of each child.
But to confirm that scientifically and legally, the bodies need to be exhumed. Hence the wording.
I personally would want that to happen for the sake of the children and their families and have the bodies returned to proper burial places instead of unmarked graves, but it’s not a decision for anyone but the band to make and I respect their decision.
In the 1900s or possibly earlier, the colonization plan was to genocide the FN people out of existence and assimilate/"breed out their blood". So, essentially, the RCMP and its precursors went out and rounded up indigenous children and put them into orphanages where they experienced horrific abuse.
Now, as time went on, and forensic science got better, it became possible to detect signs of abuse after death and long after death, too. Well, Father Buggery wouldn't want people to know that his "favourite" student died from Syphilitic encephalopathy, so he'd dig a hole, and bury them on Church grounds among the Typhoid dead babies.
It was definitely plausible that there were unmarked graves at any former FN "orphanage".
And we jumped right from plausible to genocide, mass murder, burning churches, spending money, smearing this country, and doing a disservice to indigenous people. So who’s going to jail for the lies and fraud?
This blurry ass picture means less than nothing.
“Hey kids, get in the pool and look happy or you won’t get dinner.”
How about all the documented cases of children committing suicide? Dying of exposure because they tried to run back to their families? These have been documented and confirmed by the Catholic Church.
My god you are a terrible human. They just discarded dead children on the side of the road. They committed genocide and destroyed a culture. The punishment for speaking your native language was to rip your finger nails out.
Saddle lake First Nation for one among many. And they’ve found them continuously since 2004. This is just one site among many others.
[Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
St Joseph’s as well.
[In 1996, a flood eroded the banks of the Highwood River, exposing the caskets and remains of some of the 72 children known to have died while attending Dunbow Industrial School, also referred to as St. Joseph's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
How about another one.
“In 1974, five students from the Department of Anthropology and Archaeology at the University of Saskatchewan excavated 72 graves at the of the 74 people buried in the Battleford school cemetery.[87][88] Most of the people buried there are former students of the Industrial School. During the excavation, the contents of each unmarked grave were uncovered, identified, and recorded, then re-covered and marked with a marble marker, before a chain-link fence was erected around the outside of the site. On August 31, 1975, the burial ground was reconsecrated in a ceremony where a cairn was erected with the names of fifty students known to be buried there”
Yeah numerous child sized skeletons wrapped in a white sheet doesn’t look like genocide whatsoever.
Presented with clear and direct evidence you still deny. You don’t care what actually happened you just want to put people down.
Holy shit! Did you know about this mass grave site in the middle of town? Who are the genocidal murder victims here?
It’s funny to see conspiracy theorists twist logic and reason to fit their demented narratives
https://preview.redd.it/9v8mc3abvdad1.jpeg?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abe8b0d7d8aef3e90d376a3a6ea182a36cf7cd29
Even if there were lies, that's not normally something people go to jail for. But if you want to point fingers, look to the media, in particular the international media. Not TteS.
It is not possible to "smear" a country. This country cannot be defamed. It is not a person.
It’s not that hard to go visit a friendship center and get a first hand account of the schools.. but people would rather sit back and believe what they want to instead of work to find the truth outside of the algorithm they live to trust.
LOL!! Do you really believe that what you hear at the friendship centre will be factual? Given the billions Trudeau forked over after the ‘mass grave’ discoveries were announced, how can you possibly not see how these lies have paid off big time for the people who first uttered them?
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-canada-slowly-acknowledging-there-never-was-a-mass-grave
Accounts of the atrocities committed at residential schools have been around for decades and decades. This is not a debate anymore. Residential schools were awful.
Whether or not specific anomalies are mass graves is a different debate and different issue, but suggesting that accounts of abuse of residential schools is not true is insanely ignorant.
And capital punishment was once common at all schools in Western Canada making many, many children’s accounts of their school days a nightmare. Why do you think the drop out rate at any school in Western Canada was so high? Especially in Catholic schools where discipline was considered crucial to raising responsible adults.
[There was an electric chair!](https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/st-anne-residential-school-opp-documents/)
>The investigation began on Nov. 9, 1992, after Fort Albany First Nation Chief Edmund Metatawabin presented evidence to police following a healing conference attended by St. Anne’s survivors. Over the next six years, the OPP would interview 700 victims and witnesses and gather 900 statements about assaults, sexual assaults, suspicious deaths and a multitude of abuses alleged to have occurred at the school between 1941 and 1972.
>Investigators identified 74 suspects and charged seven people. Five were convicted of crimes committed at the residential school
Yeah, and they also were on tv in a Christmas film! They were stars!
And just like many child stars, many were abused.
A man that worked there when the filming happened, Gerald Mathieu Moran, abused dozens of children and was charged and pled guilty in the 90s. He was in jail for 3 years. *DOZENS* of abuses, 3 years. I wonder how much time he spent at that pool choosing his victims?
Only 30% of all native children went to residential schools. Show me the statistics that prove that those children who stayed on the reserve with their parents had better life outcomes than those who attended residential schools.
Not excusing the Catholic Church at all, but many residential schools were run by non-Catholic denominations. This often gets overlooked because the Catholic Church has a (deservedly) worse reputation. But to be clear, many residential schools were Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. The horrific abuse and genocide was not limited to Catholic run schools.
That's the craziest thing. People are using the change in terminology to somehow rewrite the history of these schools. Absolute horrors happened at residential schools. This changes absolutely nothing about that fact.
I don't see anyone denying horrible things happened there. The issue that's dividing people is the band themselves confirmed in a press release (see link below) that they confirmed the remains of 215 children.
It made newspapers literally across the planet. Now it's being walked back to "anomalies". That's what I think people are having issues with, how it was instantly somehow confirmed to be 215 bodies of children.
Not here, which is refreshing to see, but there’s a lot of residential school denialism in other Canadian subreddits. Those that stoop that low will use this to legitimize their arguments.
Also everything I saw of official documents said it was anomalies and not children, but many folks within Indigenous communities took it as the children, since so many didn’t come back from residential schools. A natural assumption if that happened to my family, I’d say.
Not sure which official documents you saw, but here's an official press release [from the band themselves that created those news headlines around the world if you recall](https://tkemlups.ca/remains-of-children-of-kamloops-residential-school-discovered/)
That's what I think is setting some people off - how they were adamant and confirmed they were graves of children, and now those initial claims are being walked back a few years later. That wasn't a smart thing to say without proof, because now they kind of trapped themselves with those initial claims and the people will be coming out of the woodwork in a fever pitch with the vitriol.
https://www.reuters.com/world/pope-says-genocide-took-place-church-schools-canada-indigenous-children-2022-07-30/
It was a statement of fact, not an attack on the church.
It's crazy how strong some people's confirmation bias is. Like despite the glaring evidence - in this case, even the head of the catholic church admitting guilt and taking responsibility isn't enough for tinfoil hat types like you. You still hold on to your baseless right-wing claims about fake dead children.
After all the reports. All the admission. All the history and all the research. Even the govt and the church.
I live in Kamloops. People like you really are crazy.
Cognitive dissonance in it's purest rarest forn
So who’s going to jail for lying about mass graves, spreading misinformation, disinformation and committing fraud?
After we figure that out, then we can talk about your deep interest in papal opinions.
You can scream your nonsense at the top of your lungs but that doesn't change the facts on the ground. Life is about acceptance princess - suck it up. These things happened.
That was true, before all the lies about mass graves were exposed as fraud and manipulation. I think I’m winning now. Lots of people wondering what other lies we’ve been fed by bad actors. We’ll see.
So we lowered the flag for half a year, accused our own population of genocide including at the UN, and got the fing Pope to come apolagize for a hoax? Great job Canadians, slow clap! Its even more interesting that JT is still out there making claims about mass graves.
They’ve already done that and numerous other locations. They don’t want to disturb the graves any further.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
Anomalies or not. The Canadian government owes the indigenous of this country everything they can give them. They literally performed (and still do) genocide to people who taught us how to survive here. They ripped everything they cherished and loved away from them including what we all cherish the most, our children.
I can’t even imagine what I’d do if my child was forcibly taken from me and then neglected and abused like the children in residential schools were. It’s absolutely gut wrenching and horrendous what those families went through.
I agree, and as an indigenous person I think you should give me your property, your house and a portion of your check every payday as part of reparations for the evils committed against my ancestors by your ancestors.
Hey JT, are you fucking listening? JT knew it was BS from day one,and instead milked this woke lie for all its worth, to gain nothing else but woke virtuous signalling votes from the gullible woke extremists in CDA. 🤮🤮. FN also milked this for all its worth too, strictly for the extra CDN taxpayer cash in the $$Billions they would soon receive and are still receiving by the fucking boat full 😠🤮
@monetarydread It won’t let me reply to you in-thread; perhaps I was blocked. But wasn’t that the residential schools settlement? I’m asking what “profit” relating to the 215 sites.
Tell that to saddle lake First Nation.
[Lake Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
You mean the professional victim group put out statements without actually investigating further because they knew they could profit off of it? Who would have thought.
The First Nations went to court with the Canadian government over this, then won, then the gov had to pay out 9 billion-ish dollars (going off memory here, sorry if the exact $ is wrong). Then a few years later the KIB announces this, it makes international news and, within the week, Trudeau decided to give the FN another $40 Billion.
To date, $3.1 Billion has been paid out in the Independent Assessment Process and $1.6 Billion in Common Experience Payments.
$27 Million, with an *M* has been allocated over 3 years for Residential School research.
First Nations have been referring to anomalies in GPR work for years. They have to use various surviving documents to detail what could be down there if its not ordered like a usual grave site (such as bodies lined up next to eachother). So until research is finished, both in GPR and desk work, they'll refer to these typically as anomalies.
Fucking what? They don’t know they aren’t bodies. There’s a good chance that many still are bodies. LiDAR isn’t perfect.
What does this picture have to do with anything? There’s documented cases of children dying at that school and not being returned to their parents. Where do you possibly think they ended up?
But only aboriginal children weren’t returned to their parents, with no records of their burial. Not too mention all the other sadistic punishments given out.
[“There was a whole bunch of kids in there. They were stopping and picking up a bunch of kids,” she said. “Some of them died on the way and they just threw them off the train.](https://globalnews.ca/news/7981899/residential-school-survivor-speaking-out-conditions-trauma/amp/)
Does this happen with every boarding school. Just discard dead children off a moving train?
Or this? “Jones, now 77 years old, said when one of the supervisors caught her speaking her own language, three of her fingernails were ripped out.”
These are children for gods sake
I had to take a field trip to the site. The people that work there, stated that even if the suspected graves are not the children, the children are still buried on the site. 215 is the very smallest estimate of the number of children killed on site. The number they believe is more along the lines of 5000 at least.
Where's the remains, though? Im not being facetious. But as far as im aware, they haven't found any linked remains or anything that even resembles human remains at any known site. I could be wrong, but again, that's from what I've researched, and I'm not any type of expert on the matter.
The government of Canada's stated and documented purpose was to erase "*Indians*" from Canada, and the methods chosen that fit the definition of genocide were to force poverty, remove children, and causing serious mental harms. Any one of these qualifies as Genocide. Not cultural, no qualifiers, just Genocide. Not just with residential schools but the Indian Act itself was created and used for this purpose.
Now if your definition is only the specific dictionary meaning of the word, you have to pick a dictionary because some don't just use killing, but also words like systematic destruction, which is what Canada did, and there's no point talking because we can't agree on the terms were discussing. For most, they use the UN Convention on Genocide as the definition.
That was a great attempt to answer, but unfortunately, your short story failed to provide any evidence of physical bodies, as I asked in my previous comment you responded to. Governments are not trusted sources and consistently bend truth to fit their narratives. Wiki is also not a great source and, furthermore, did not say that even 1 single remnant of remains were physically found, again, as I previously asked.
That is false. They have never physically found remains, to my knowledge.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/no-evidence-of-mass-graves-or-genocide-in-residential-schools
I could be wrong, but again. From what I've read, there's none.
Read through the investigation section of my link. There have been numerous cases around the country.
You’re article is a book summary from disgraced university professor who writes this nonsense to pay her bills.
[Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
let's go dig up your grandma so you can prove she's in there. If they want to leave the children where they rest without disturbing them further that's their business. You are not owed proof.
Your level of intelligence is so low that I didn't even want to respond. My grandma being exhumed from her singular grave with no cause or reason is the POLAR OPPOSITE of finding and exhuming mass burial sites of a massive attempted genocide or cultural whitewash that spanned across multiple countries and could finally get aboriginal people a level of reparation, apology and understanding that some(like me) might not readily have. Pretending to be offended at simple questions isn't helpful or smart. Due process and asking for proof/clarification is. Thank you for your very helpful and constructive comment. 👍
Ignorant is a funny term coming from someone who believed indications on GPR were evidence of bodies in a mass grave.
The only thing I "hate" is being lied to and mislead by our government and media.
Claiming there is a "MASS GRAVE" because you found some irregularities on ground penetrating radar and decided not to investigate further, is. a. LIE
Quote from the article:
>The Day of Reflection statement employed almost exactly the same language as in the initial 2021 announcement, except instead of the term “remains of 215 children,” it was now using the term “anomalies.”
No they haven't, see the [press release] (https://tkemlups.ca/remains-of-children-of-kamloops-residential-school-discovered/) that the band issued.
"This past weekend, with the help of a ground penetrating radar specialist, the stark truth of the preliminary findings came to light – the confirmation of the remains of 215 children who were students of the Kamloops Indian Residential School"
Damn, half the comments here are just racist. Kamloops really has became a shithole hey? Glad I moved away like 15 years ago.
Surprised you boomers know how to work your phones.
People on here acting like this is the first time bodies have been found and now shouting hoax over a small word change. They’ve found numerous bodies at other sites. Some accidentally.
[Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
In what world is this a "small word change" to you? They CONFIRMED the remains of 215 children, and are now saying well.... actually it's just anomalies now. That's pretty fucking major don't you think?! Newspapers around end globe ran with that story, so to walk it back is very, very big.
May 27, 2021, Kamloops – It is with a heavy heart that Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc Kukpi7 (Chief) Rosanne Casimir confirms an unthinkable loss that was spoken about but never documented by the Kamloops Indian Residential School. This past weekend, with the help of a ground penetrating radar specialist, the stark truth of the preliminary findings came to light – the confirmation of the remains of 215 children who were students of the Kamloops Indian Residential School
Yep and immediately after that in the article they say the findings are preliminary and the investigation is still ongoing.
It’s a small word change because they changed one word. Pretty simple.
My guess is they have determined that not all of the 215 anomalies are bodies but the majority still are.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one then. They confirmed the remains of 215 children. That's a huge leap from the current word anomaly, absolute night and day difference.
If it's such a small wording change, why change the wording at all then? Why not just leave it as is, I mean it's barely any different right?
Words like murder or phrases like confirmed remains of children are absolutes - any deviation from that absolute is huge.
They made it clear in their initial release that those were only preliminary findings. They said very clearly that the investigation was still ongoing and they would submit a final report. For this very reason.
And I mean it’s not like they were just making it up. A team of professionals using high tech equipment told them they found body shaped anomalies in a place they were expecting to find bodies. These people work the rcmp and the coroners office regularly.
If the RCMP were looking for a body they would do the exact same thing with the exact same people and say they identified a potential body.
I think yes they jumped the gun because it’s possible everything identified isn’t a body. But I think they deserve a little slack during what was a very emotional time. There is certainly still bodies present on the site but just probably not 215.
Well, this should be interesting......
They've been reffering to them as anomalies since at least mid 2023
Before that even. They were always referred to as anomalies. Chief Cadmus Delorme (in an interview on Newstalk 650 in S’toon) reiterated that those anomalies were not bodies. There was a similar finding at his first nation in Sk. Its always been the television media that has always presented the anomalies as remains (initially) then it evolved into bodies, mass graves, etc. Chief Delorme tried to put the kybosh on that right away.
Maybe in Saskatchewan, but out there they calm them bodies, even though they are probably sewage tiles
To go from “215 children” to 215 cases where it could be “a stone under the ground, it could be a clump of clay, it could be a piece of wood” is a big difference.
Wow seeing these comments I have to say.. all these ppl saying that others will just believe what we are spoon fed to believe then do the EXACT same!! Media says something that ypu think lines up with your belief then it's they are 'professional victims' 'it was never true' 'it was always about the money' no it was always about the children.. do the work go talk to elders.. be prepared to hear the most uncomfortable atrocious stories.. be prepared to feel your emotions broken in half.. be prepared to hear how theses things suffered sometimes not even by them have affected their homes families and more.. it was never about money.. how would you feel if you sent your child to school and they never returned.. or you heard they died.. 'kill the Indian save the man' but here's the most pressing question many natives had 'Did they save the man, or condem him?' I genuinely don't think they did.. many Natives missing, murdered, addicted, struggling to relearn their ways.. 'killing the Indian' has caused identity crisises across the board.. these 'schools' were never schools.. that's the point and children died in their care.. that's the point..
Need another 500 seasons of this [First Contact](https://www.firstcontactcanada.ca/) >First Contact takes six Canadians, all with stereotypical opinions about Indigenous People, on a unique 28-day exploration of Indigenous Canada. It is a journey that will turn their lives upside down, challenging their perceptions and confronting their prejudices about a world they never imagined.
So agree. Don't let this comment section get you down. These people would never dare say this shit to anybody besides other overt racists in real life. I'm from Kamloops and I was really fucked up over this discovery. Worse, I didn't even know or realize there was a residential school in Kamloops! Some of us care.
You care so very much - that you didn't even know there was a residential school in your own city?!
depending on the age of this person, the school itself is being used by the band as office buildings, if they are too young to know it was a residential school, that doesn't negate the fact that the discovery affected them.
> I'm from Kamloops and I was really fucked up over this discovery. Worse, I didn't even know or realize there was a residential school in Kamloops! How? Maybe I take the amount of education I have on subjects like this for granted, but how is it possible not to know this? I've known about this my entire life, was always raised knowing about the terrible things that went on in residential schools and that the government was responsible. This goes through our national news every couple of decades as well. But why do I get the impression that it will quiet down and then in 20-30 years flare up again and people will act as though this is not something widely known or discussed?
What discovery?
You need to communicate more coherently
I trust the National Post to be about as balanced and fair as our mayor…. They regularly post opinion pieces by the Kay family (including Jonathan of dog shampoo fame) and convicted felon/trump pardonee Conrad Black. Rex Murphy was also quite prolific before he passed. Of course they’re salivating over a small vocabulary shift, that I’m sure has been used before, because it fits their preferred narrative
Or it’s a significant shift in messaging by the First Nation worthy of national news
Agreed. Language doesn’t just change like that, when you change the traditional word, you’re probably trying to send a new message.
Oh please. Don't pretend this is all semantics. No it wasn't a scam nor were residential schools a lie but you have to admit that we as a nation overreacted. Not enough people asked critical questions, those that did were often branded as racist and we had this massive outpouring of guilt and reverence over something that very possibly wasn't true. We lowered the flag for the longest time in national history and proclaimed a new national holiday. The biggest national mourning in decades over an unverified claim. That's not how reasonable people act. That's not how a nation should run. We should reflect that the response to the "discovery" was overblown and reactionary. Not try to deflect like you are.
Speaking of balanced and fair, everyone I've talked to is under the impression that those anomalies were dead children. All because of shit reporting. Now they're the ones reporting correct information and you're whining about it.
Small vocabulary shift??😂😂😂
We love the NP, as it allows for critical thinking and is most definitely not a woke virtuous signalling POS source of information. Our only issue with it is its unbending subjective opinion on Israel, the vile IDF and their racist mindless comments on Palestinians. Love their Anti JT stuff though 👍
Preferred narrative? CANADIANS want to know the truth, not a political WOKE virtuous signalling puke inducing 🤮 lie
The new York Post and several other news outlets have been talking about this for a year now.
I think it’s logical to believe that lots of those graves are of children in the “care” of whoever was in charge of running the residential school at the time and the people/government/church based organisations are responsible for their deaths regardless of the individual circumstances of each child. But to confirm that scientifically and legally, the bodies need to be exhumed. Hence the wording. I personally would want that to happen for the sake of the children and their families and have the bodies returned to proper burial places instead of unmarked graves, but it’s not a decision for anyone but the band to make and I respect their decision.
Logical to believe? Based on what exactly? Lies? Fraud?
In the 1900s or possibly earlier, the colonization plan was to genocide the FN people out of existence and assimilate/"breed out their blood". So, essentially, the RCMP and its precursors went out and rounded up indigenous children and put them into orphanages where they experienced horrific abuse. Now, as time went on, and forensic science got better, it became possible to detect signs of abuse after death and long after death, too. Well, Father Buggery wouldn't want people to know that his "favourite" student died from Syphilitic encephalopathy, so he'd dig a hole, and bury them on Church grounds among the Typhoid dead babies. It was definitely plausible that there were unmarked graves at any former FN "orphanage".
And we jumped right from plausible to genocide, mass murder, burning churches, spending money, smearing this country, and doing a disservice to indigenous people. So who’s going to jail for the lies and fraud?
You do know that they actually have found and dug up gravesites before right?
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This blurry ass picture means less than nothing. “Hey kids, get in the pool and look happy or you won’t get dinner.” How about all the documented cases of children committing suicide? Dying of exposure because they tried to run back to their families? These have been documented and confirmed by the Catholic Church.
Blurry picture because it’s almost 100 years old lol. You need to expand your mind, and see what a benefit these schools were to the Indians.
My god you are a terrible human. They just discarded dead children on the side of the road. They committed genocide and destroyed a culture. The punishment for speaking your native language was to rip your finger nails out.
Mass graves of murdered victims of a genocide? They did? Where? When?
Saddle lake First Nation for one among many. And they’ve found them continuously since 2004. This is just one site among many others. [Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites) St Joseph’s as well. [In 1996, a flood eroded the banks of the Highwood River, exposing the caskets and remains of some of the 72 children known to have died while attending Dunbow Industrial School, also referred to as St. Joseph's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites) How about another one. “In 1974, five students from the Department of Anthropology and Archaeology at the University of Saskatchewan excavated 72 graves at the of the 74 people buried in the Battleford school cemetery.[87][88] Most of the people buried there are former students of the Industrial School. During the excavation, the contents of each unmarked grave were uncovered, identified, and recorded, then re-covered and marked with a marble marker, before a chain-link fence was erected around the outside of the site. On August 31, 1975, the burial ground was reconsecrated in a ceremony where a cairn was erected with the names of fifty students known to be buried there”
lol. Guy discovers cemeteries, thinks they’re a mass genocide pit. What a joke. Talk about moving goalposts lol.
Yeah numerous child sized skeletons wrapped in a white sheet doesn’t look like genocide whatsoever. Presented with clear and direct evidence you still deny. You don’t care what actually happened you just want to put people down.
Holy shit! Did you know about this mass grave site in the middle of town? Who are the genocidal murder victims here? It’s funny to see conspiracy theorists twist logic and reason to fit their demented narratives https://preview.redd.it/9v8mc3abvdad1.jpeg?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abe8b0d7d8aef3e90d376a3a6ea182a36cf7cd29
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Even if there were lies, that's not normally something people go to jail for. But if you want to point fingers, look to the media, in particular the international media. Not TteS. It is not possible to "smear" a country. This country cannot be defamed. It is not a person.
Sure, whatever, who cares then.
Tell me you have no clue about Canadian history without telling me you have no clue about Canadian history
Ok, there’s a mass grave of children in Kamloops who are victims of the residential school genocide in Canada. Easy
Why would they dig up the 215 sewage tiles? Then they would have to stop playing the victim card.
It’s not that hard to go visit a friendship center and get a first hand account of the schools.. but people would rather sit back and believe what they want to instead of work to find the truth outside of the algorithm they live to trust.
LOL!! Do you really believe that what you hear at the friendship centre will be factual? Given the billions Trudeau forked over after the ‘mass grave’ discoveries were announced, how can you possibly not see how these lies have paid off big time for the people who first uttered them? https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-canada-slowly-acknowledging-there-never-was-a-mass-grave
Accounts of the atrocities committed at residential schools have been around for decades and decades. This is not a debate anymore. Residential schools were awful. Whether or not specific anomalies are mass graves is a different debate and different issue, but suggesting that accounts of abuse of residential schools is not true is insanely ignorant.
And capital punishment was once common at all schools in Western Canada making many, many children’s accounts of their school days a nightmare. Why do you think the drop out rate at any school in Western Canada was so high? Especially in Catholic schools where discipline was considered crucial to raising responsible adults.
[There was an electric chair!](https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/st-anne-residential-school-opp-documents/) >The investigation began on Nov. 9, 1992, after Fort Albany First Nation Chief Edmund Metatawabin presented evidence to police following a healing conference attended by St. Anne’s survivors. Over the next six years, the OPP would interview 700 victims and witnesses and gather 900 statements about assaults, sexual assaults, suspicious deaths and a multitude of abuses alleged to have occurred at the school between 1941 and 1972. >Investigators identified 74 suspects and charged seven people. Five were convicted of crimes committed at the residential school
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Yeah, and they also were on tv in a Christmas film! They were stars! And just like many child stars, many were abused. A man that worked there when the filming happened, Gerald Mathieu Moran, abused dozens of children and was charged and pled guilty in the 90s. He was in jail for 3 years. *DOZENS* of abuses, 3 years. I wonder how much time he spent at that pool choosing his victims?
You’re a real gem. Just a peach. Salt of the earth
Only 30% of all native children went to residential schools. Show me the statistics that prove that those children who stayed on the reserve with their parents had better life outcomes than those who attended residential schools.
At the very least, whether there are bodies or anomalies, the Catholic church with the help of the Canadian government, conducted a cultural genocide.
Not excusing the Catholic Church at all, but many residential schools were run by non-Catholic denominations. This often gets overlooked because the Catholic Church has a (deservedly) worse reputation. But to be clear, many residential schools were Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. The horrific abuse and genocide was not limited to Catholic run schools.
The blame primarily belongs to the government first.
That's the craziest thing. People are using the change in terminology to somehow rewrite the history of these schools. Absolute horrors happened at residential schools. This changes absolutely nothing about that fact.
I don't see anyone denying horrible things happened there. The issue that's dividing people is the band themselves confirmed in a press release (see link below) that they confirmed the remains of 215 children. It made newspapers literally across the planet. Now it's being walked back to "anomalies". That's what I think people are having issues with, how it was instantly somehow confirmed to be 215 bodies of children.
Not here, which is refreshing to see, but there’s a lot of residential school denialism in other Canadian subreddits. Those that stoop that low will use this to legitimize their arguments. Also everything I saw of official documents said it was anomalies and not children, but many folks within Indigenous communities took it as the children, since so many didn’t come back from residential schools. A natural assumption if that happened to my family, I’d say.
Not sure which official documents you saw, but here's an official press release [from the band themselves that created those news headlines around the world if you recall](https://tkemlups.ca/remains-of-children-of-kamloops-residential-school-discovered/) That's what I think is setting some people off - how they were adamant and confirmed they were graves of children, and now those initial claims are being walked back a few years later. That wasn't a smart thing to say without proof, because now they kind of trapped themselves with those initial claims and the people will be coming out of the woodwork in a fever pitch with the vitriol.
Who are rewriting the history? Where is this craziness of which you speak? I don't see it...
When your claims of mass graves and murderous child genocide don’t work because they’re made up bullshit, fall back on church bashing. Pathetic.
https://www.reuters.com/world/pope-says-genocide-took-place-church-schools-canada-indigenous-children-2022-07-30/ It was a statement of fact, not an attack on the church.
lol, what else do you agree with the pope about?
It's crazy how strong some people's confirmation bias is. Like despite the glaring evidence - in this case, even the head of the catholic church admitting guilt and taking responsibility isn't enough for tinfoil hat types like you. You still hold on to your baseless right-wing claims about fake dead children. After all the reports. All the admission. All the history and all the research. Even the govt and the church. I live in Kamloops. People like you really are crazy. Cognitive dissonance in it's purest rarest forn
So who’s going to jail for lying about mass graves, spreading misinformation, disinformation and committing fraud? After we figure that out, then we can talk about your deep interest in papal opinions.
You can scream your nonsense at the top of your lungs but that doesn't change the facts on the ground. Life is about acceptance princess - suck it up. These things happened.
Well, except the mass grave bullshit. Only conspiracy theorists and idiots believe that.
ImpossibleFuel, this is battle you wont win bro. Just let it go
That was true, before all the lies about mass graves were exposed as fraud and manipulation. I think I’m winning now. Lots of people wondering what other lies we’ve been fed by bad actors. We’ll see.
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What an insane take.
So we lowered the flag for half a year, accused our own population of genocide including at the UN, and got the fing Pope to come apolagize for a hoax? Great job Canadians, slow clap! Its even more interesting that JT is still out there making claims about mass graves.
Why don't they just dig it up and settle the matter that way? Can't be that difficult.
They’ve already done that and numerous other locations. They don’t want to disturb the graves any further. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
Anomalies or not. The Canadian government owes the indigenous of this country everything they can give them. They literally performed (and still do) genocide to people who taught us how to survive here. They ripped everything they cherished and loved away from them including what we all cherish the most, our children.
I can’t even imagine what I’d do if my child was forcibly taken from me and then neglected and abused like the children in residential schools were. It’s absolutely gut wrenching and horrendous what those families went through.
Government? Isn’t every land owner in Canada complicit? Blaming the government seems like the easy way out.
I agree, and as an indigenous person I think you should give me your property, your house and a portion of your check every payday as part of reparations for the evils committed against my ancestors by your ancestors.
Sure, timhortons81. Because those things will heal generational trauma. 🙃
Uh yeah! Cash and land are the only ways to heal the trauma.
Cough up your kids and I’ll make ya a deal
It's called GENERATIONAL trauma, so let me know when I can pick up the keys and your first payment towards reconciliation.
Lol
Every anomaly matters
Hey JT, are you fucking listening? JT knew it was BS from day one,and instead milked this woke lie for all its worth, to gain nothing else but woke virtuous signalling votes from the gullible woke extremists in CDA. 🤮🤮. FN also milked this for all its worth too, strictly for the extra CDN taxpayer cash in the $$Billions they would soon receive and are still receiving by the fucking boat full 😠🤮
@monetarydread It won’t let me reply to you in-thread; perhaps I was blocked. But wasn’t that the residential schools settlement? I’m asking what “profit” relating to the 215 sites.
This needs to be a bigger story and the band needs to pay for the churches to be rebuilt
I wonder who the government will jail first for spreading dangerous misinformation.
Not a single bone found
I love spreading misinformation on the internet
Tell that to saddle lake First Nation. [Lake Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
You mean the professional victim group put out statements without actually investigating further because they knew they could profit off of it? Who would have thought.
> professional victim group disgusting take
Sounds accurate
That's the settlers' eye for you
Whatever you say.
What profit?
The First Nations went to court with the Canadian government over this, then won, then the gov had to pay out 9 billion-ish dollars (going off memory here, sorry if the exact $ is wrong). Then a few years later the KIB announces this, it makes international news and, within the week, Trudeau decided to give the FN another $40 Billion.
Lol. I'm guessing you also heard how classrooms all have cat litter for the children who identify as cats? Pretty sure that's trudeau's fault too.
To date, $3.1 Billion has been paid out in the Independent Assessment Process and $1.6 Billion in Common Experience Payments. $27 Million, with an *M* has been allocated over 3 years for Residential School research.
First Nations have been referring to anomalies in GPR work for years. They have to use various surviving documents to detail what could be down there if its not ordered like a usual grave site (such as bodies lined up next to eachother). So until research is finished, both in GPR and desk work, they'll refer to these typically as anomalies.
Explicitly calling them bodies. https://tkemlups.ca/remains-of-children-of-kamloops-residential-school-discovered/
They’ve found other bodies at other similar sites?
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Fucking what? They don’t know they aren’t bodies. There’s a good chance that many still are bodies. LiDAR isn’t perfect. What does this picture have to do with anything? There’s documented cases of children dying at that school and not being returned to their parents. Where do you possibly think they ended up?
Kids died at every boarding school. It was the 19th-early 20th century. People died all the time.
But only aboriginal children weren’t returned to their parents, with no records of their burial. Not too mention all the other sadistic punishments given out. [“There was a whole bunch of kids in there. They were stopping and picking up a bunch of kids,” she said. “Some of them died on the way and they just threw them off the train.](https://globalnews.ca/news/7981899/residential-school-survivor-speaking-out-conditions-trauma/amp/) Does this happen with every boarding school. Just discard dead children off a moving train? Or this? “Jones, now 77 years old, said when one of the supervisors caught her speaking her own language, three of her fingernails were ripped out.” These are children for gods sake
I have nothing nice to say. So I’ll keep my mouth shut.
Good call
Yep long overdue
User name doesn’t check out ?
It’s a self reminder to go not down a blackhole discussion here. It worked on this topic.
I had to take a field trip to the site. The people that work there, stated that even if the suspected graves are not the children, the children are still buried on the site. 215 is the very smallest estimate of the number of children killed on site. The number they believe is more along the lines of 5000 at least.
They never were graves
The damage has been done, millions of people will claim genocide for the rest of their lives.
Because it happened
Where's the remains, though? Im not being facetious. But as far as im aware, they haven't found any linked remains or anything that even resembles human remains at any known site. I could be wrong, but again, that's from what I've researched, and I'm not any type of expert on the matter.
The government of Canada's stated and documented purpose was to erase "*Indians*" from Canada, and the methods chosen that fit the definition of genocide were to force poverty, remove children, and causing serious mental harms. Any one of these qualifies as Genocide. Not cultural, no qualifiers, just Genocide. Not just with residential schools but the Indian Act itself was created and used for this purpose. Now if your definition is only the specific dictionary meaning of the word, you have to pick a dictionary because some don't just use killing, but also words like systematic destruction, which is what Canada did, and there's no point talking because we can't agree on the terms were discussing. For most, they use the UN Convention on Genocide as the definition.
That was a great attempt to answer, but unfortunately, your short story failed to provide any evidence of physical bodies, as I asked in my previous comment you responded to. Governments are not trusted sources and consistently bend truth to fit their narratives. Wiki is also not a great source and, furthermore, did not say that even 1 single remnant of remains were physically found, again, as I previously asked.
That’s completely false. They’ve 100% found numerous bodies. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
That is false. They have never physically found remains, to my knowledge. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/no-evidence-of-mass-graves-or-genocide-in-residential-schools I could be wrong, but again. From what I've read, there's none.
Read through the investigation section of my link. There have been numerous cases around the country. You’re article is a book summary from disgraced university professor who writes this nonsense to pay her bills. [Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
Perfect. Thank you. I've been trying to find something concrete.👍
let's go dig up your grandma so you can prove she's in there. If they want to leave the children where they rest without disturbing them further that's their business. You are not owed proof.
Your level of intelligence is so low that I didn't even want to respond. My grandma being exhumed from her singular grave with no cause or reason is the POLAR OPPOSITE of finding and exhuming mass burial sites of a massive attempted genocide or cultural whitewash that spanned across multiple countries and could finally get aboriginal people a level of reparation, apology and understanding that some(like me) might not readily have. Pretending to be offended at simple questions isn't helpful or smart. Due process and asking for proof/clarification is. Thank you for your very helpful and constructive comment. 👍
Well, ok but only if I’ll profit off her.
Liar
And give it a few more years and it will turn out that more than half of these anomalies don’t even have indigenous ties. SURPRISE!!!
How would that make sense?
Because it was a Catholic gravesite. Everyone who died was buried there, white, FN, young, old, etc.
What Catholic gravesite are you talking about?
The First Nations weren’t given proper burials or recorded as they weren’t catholic.
Well it's been a lie the entire time so... Now that they've gotten their attention they can walk back their claims.
Dog that's a pretty bold claim considering the gravity of the situation. Why so hostile?
What happened to you to make you so ignorant and hateful?
Ignorant is a funny term coming from someone who believed indications on GPR were evidence of bodies in a mass grave. The only thing I "hate" is being lied to and mislead by our government and media. Claiming there is a "MASS GRAVE" because you found some irregularities on ground penetrating radar and decided not to investigate further, is. a. LIE
They can just have the shirt off my back at this point.
They've always called them anomalies.
Quote from the article: >The Day of Reflection statement employed almost exactly the same language as in the initial 2021 announcement, except instead of the term “remains of 215 children,” it was now using the term “anomalies.”
No they haven't, see the [press release] (https://tkemlups.ca/remains-of-children-of-kamloops-residential-school-discovered/) that the band issued. "This past weekend, with the help of a ground penetrating radar specialist, the stark truth of the preliminary findings came to light – the confirmation of the remains of 215 children who were students of the Kamloops Indian Residential School"
Exactly.
So can we drop all the complaints and other insubstantial issues as a result of this made up agenda
It was about more money … and they got it
I wish I was surprised at how many racists live in Kamloops. Disgusting.
Damn, half the comments here are just racist. Kamloops really has became a shithole hey? Glad I moved away like 15 years ago. Surprised you boomers know how to work your phones.
People on here acting like this is the first time bodies have been found and now shouting hoax over a small word change. They’ve found numerous bodies at other sites. Some accidentally. [Since 2004, partial remains have been repeatedly discovered while digging new graves in the Saddle Lake Cree Nation community cemetery, located near the former site of the Blue Quills Indian Residential School. At the time, the remains were re-interred upon discovery, but investigators undertaking the nation's efforts to discover unmarked graves on their territory announced on May 17, 2022, that they believed those accidentally excavated remains were the remains of children who died at residential school.[29] The investigators believe that the discoveries include a mass grave, where they found "numerous children-sized skeletons wrapped in white cloth," theorizing that the potential mass grave could have been from a typhoid outbreak at the school](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites)
In what world is this a "small word change" to you? They CONFIRMED the remains of 215 children, and are now saying well.... actually it's just anomalies now. That's pretty fucking major don't you think?! Newspapers around end globe ran with that story, so to walk it back is very, very big. May 27, 2021, Kamloops – It is with a heavy heart that Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc Kukpi7 (Chief) Rosanne Casimir confirms an unthinkable loss that was spoken about but never documented by the Kamloops Indian Residential School. This past weekend, with the help of a ground penetrating radar specialist, the stark truth of the preliminary findings came to light – the confirmation of the remains of 215 children who were students of the Kamloops Indian Residential School
Yep and immediately after that in the article they say the findings are preliminary and the investigation is still ongoing. It’s a small word change because they changed one word. Pretty simple. My guess is they have determined that not all of the 215 anomalies are bodies but the majority still are.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one then. They confirmed the remains of 215 children. That's a huge leap from the current word anomaly, absolute night and day difference. If it's such a small wording change, why change the wording at all then? Why not just leave it as is, I mean it's barely any different right? Words like murder or phrases like confirmed remains of children are absolutes - any deviation from that absolute is huge.
They made it clear in their initial release that those were only preliminary findings. They said very clearly that the investigation was still ongoing and they would submit a final report. For this very reason. And I mean it’s not like they were just making it up. A team of professionals using high tech equipment told them they found body shaped anomalies in a place they were expecting to find bodies. These people work the rcmp and the coroners office regularly. If the RCMP were looking for a body they would do the exact same thing with the exact same people and say they identified a potential body. I think yes they jumped the gun because it’s possible everything identified isn’t a body. But I think they deserve a little slack during what was a very emotional time. There is certainly still bodies present on the site but just probably not 215.