Actually i have something for that. It signifies that the law doesn't bend, therefore she needs to remain in good posture. If she bends, she gets stabbed by her armor. "I will not bend" as she says
There are many arbitrary reasons to bend forward. Sitting up when laid down, hunching over from a gut punch or to pick something up. The symbolism, while valid, is meaningless if it completely erases the concept of practicality as a downside.
yeah and I'll bet she wears form-fitting spandex because she "needs freedom of movement". Look, man, the reason a lot of artists have similar critiques of Kayle's design is because to artists - particularly concept artists - these are pretty basic issues of design. My main bugbears with her are that her old armor's androgyny was one of her most appealing points to a lot of kayle players, and them giving her a sexy hourglass design felt incredibly pointless and boring (ooo, sexy thin girls with identical faces, we definitely didn't have enough of those in League) *especially* given her new lore is all about her trying to embody an inhuman ideal of law.
Concept artists and art critics are just generally more equipped to see part of a design and figure out if something was a specific point of symbolism or just a bad choice. If Kayle's chestplate was actually SUPPOSED to represent that and not just have a pleasing shape language, poorly applied, then the spike would have been an actual spike anchored to her chestplate. Remember, the woman has pauldrons the size of her head and gets more wings whens he levels up. Her sister has tears burned into her face and chained up her angel wings. *Riot is not in the business of subtle character design.* (Nor should they be, when it's an isometric game.)
If you read her lore, she only has little armor and more of a white leather suit cuz her main purpose of it is to cover up her mortal body and flesh, not really for defense. Thats why she has low defense in design and in game. More on just armor plates. She still needs to maintain her agility when in fight and flight, thats why her passive is Zealous giving movement and atk speed.
And i think riot knows how to make armor given theres so many armoured champs on league already and i wondered, why her chest plate is shaped like that? Literally 3 metal spikes will stab her sternum and sides. I believe, those are key details that resembles her Law that cannot be bend. She trained herself to not bend, cuz its a sign of frailty. Its not only that she shouldn't, but she made it where she cant, physically and mentally. She refuses to bow down or bend, thats why most of her default splash art are posed with her chest out with pride. Thsts my take on it.
If your main take is only about you preferring her old design over the new then i dont mind it. But if you pit your design concept to diminish the value of the current design and twisting its idea to something different making it look like the concept is bad, then thats where i draw the line. Theres a beauty in the new design that you guys foreshadowed with your preference of the old design.
\> If you read her lore, she only has little armor and more of a white leather suit cuz her main purpose of it is to cover up her mortal body and flesh, not really for defense. Thats why she has low defense in design and in game. More on just armor plates. She still needs to maintain her agility when in fight and flight, thats why her passive is Zealous giving movement and atk speed.
does she breathe through her skin too?
“I have something for that” yeah bro con men proved centuries ago you can spin anything with symbolism and metaphor play. It’s not rational or good tho lmao
Brother just because you can make up some roundabout reasoning to "explain" something doesnt mean that the original is without flaw. You can like something and still admit it isn't perfect.
Isn't that what most of the lore nerds and artists do? Find a meaning to things? Thats the fun thing about art and League especially. Cuz they have lots of easter eggs and details we can nit pick and find a reason behind it. If you find it as a flaw, then thats your opinion. I found a way behind the design element and reflect it to her design concept which makes sense so I'll believe in that. Didn't you ever wonder why all of the armoured champs even before the Kayle rework design have proper armor but for some reason Kayl has this? Its just my design approach speculation. If you dont see it, then i cant force you to. Im just stating my opinion
Bro your irrationally in love with a league of legends waifu. Just because it's flawed doesn't mean you can't keep cranking your hog to it every night after going 3-8 on the rift. Nobody is attacking you or kayle calm down
Your opinions are unhinged ramblings of a fanatic that took offense to a youtube video about a fictional character who you attached your entire existence to.....
So TBSkyen can ramble and i cant?🤣🤣🤣🤣 I may sound really intense on my post but im just chillin here typin shit out. Maybe youre the one who needs to chill out🥶
Theres a difference between retroactively headcannoning things after a poor design decision, and having pre established lore reasons that lead to a seemingly bad decision. They just arent the same. You could make up a roundabout reason explaining everything about kayle just by saying "it represents justice because the law doesnt ____." There's absolutely nothing in the lore that points to a conclusion like "kayle maintains good posture so her armor doesnt stab her but she doesnt use better armor because the law doesnt bend."
Additionally all the armored champions before kayle dont have perfect armor. J4s is far too extravagant (albiet it gets a pass bc its Royal armor and for slaying dragons in a fantasy setting). Multiple women champions have boob armor or cleavage windows. Riot has consistently chosen sex appeal over functional armor for female champions and they did the same with kayle. Its ok to acknowledge this as a flaw instead of coping with odd theories lol. No shame in it and it isnt "ruining" kayle to have gripesnwith her design. Changing kayles armor from how it was pre-rework to how it is now was about as objectively a poor decision as you could make in something as subjective as character design. It takes away from her lore, core themes, and character appeal imho
It’s because he despises Azir for being royalty. Jarvan, too. Now I’m not some monarchist simp myself, but it feels like TBSkyen has a real axe to grind on that front.
Sorry, i just woke up and one of my subscribers had this question in my comments and it annoyed me, cuz i 100% know that they got this info from TBSkyen or from the bandwagon already. I dont want these big creators spreading misinformation to my subscribers👌
The dude constantly has shitty opinions left, right, and center, ALL. THE. TIME. I remember him trying to shit on Larian Studios because the murder hobo of the game is, in his words, albino (it's a fucking white dragonborn). It's as if he believes they were purposefully trying to stigmatize people using the character. What makes this even worse is that his appearance was chosen by the community.
As much as i enjoy his videos so etines he just thinks to much kn a small box
No not every deoiction of royalty police or k ight is supposed to be evil
Nah, they’ve been spouting nonsense for years, he’s the acceptable amount of “calm.”
I knew TBSyken was a joke when one of his Ashe redesigns was just making her fat 💀
Their viewers are the same people who’s only creative redesign for Kaisa is making her ugly af.
Did you actually watch the Ashe video or just see a screenshot and jump to conclusions? The fat ashe is quite interesting from a design standpoint as its meant to lean more into other aspects of Ashe's character that isnt "ice archer woman."
Yeah I watched the whole video and laughed my ass off when it got to fat Ashe 😂
Look female characters don’t have to be anime girls in skimpy outfits, in fact I prefer it when they’re not. But fat Ashe ain’t it.
I know his thought process, I understand where he’s coming from, it doesent make the design any less dog water.
...why isnt fat ashe it? If you understand both the thought process/reasoning, Im not really getting where the hate is coming from. You can disagree with the design for the character and still acknowledge that it would be an interesting take on said character. TBSkeyen sought to make a design for ashe that was as "interesting" as possible, with his criteria for interesting being something along the lines of "as far away from traditional fantasy stereotypes while also being consistent with the character's lore/background/personality." Under that lense of analysis, what is the issue with fat ashe other than maybe not being visually appealing?
If we were taking about a brand new champion maybe it would work. But even under that leans there’s just better designs even for the character profile they were going for.
But we’re talking about a champion with an already established character. If you’re going to focus heavily one aspect over the other that’s fine but you have to keep the other aspects somewhat intact.
They wanted to focus heavily on the “war mother” aspect of her character but I don’t even think it does that particularly well either.
I really do think making her big is was purely to try and make it a design as far removed from what anyone would consider attractive at all because those people are allergic to real women.
Stupid fucking comment, no they did not make the design to make your dick soft and no they aren't "allergic to women". I'm not even a fan and I know how much he loves sexy women. And what the fuck is "real women" even supposed to mean?
Well I mean there can almost always be a better design lol, there are very few "perfect" design." Iirc Skeyen had argued that in terms of lore, Ashe's role as warmother and leader of her tribe is more important to her character than frost archer, yet her design didnt reflect that priority in roles. Personally I wouldnt say that her other aspects were lost, just that theyd taken a backseat to the ones more central to ashe as a character. You might be right on the last point, making her large could be an attempt at rage bait or to generate a conversation, but personally I dont see much wrong with it especially when there are logical reasons for it outside of said ragebait.
Im not really a fan of the fat ashe design either, and it does have its flaws, but I feel that people have a really violent kneejerk reaction to it without understanding the reasonable logic behind it. Its not perfect, but again, it fits literally all of the criteria that TbSkeyen had originally set out to achieve with his design. On that premise it's quite a good design
Also, you know, maybe, just maybe, her ascensione are meant to be interpreted as a good thing, which is why she appear more human. Just to include a thematic aspect to it as well.
I don't always agree with his takes, this much is true. Fat Ashe, albino durge, red beard GP, and Riot Graves just to name a few. But he also provides a different perspective and has some also good ideas and suggestions. Adt is subjective at the end of the day so while I think his tastes and kine don't exactly align, I do like hearing some of his ideas.
To be fair I stopped watching TBskyen after seeing some videos and shorts, in every material he sounds so full of himself and how he is the greatest designer etc xdd. I still remember when he complained that Pantheon has same armour skins(which he doesnt but sure he could use some new ideas) which shows that he doesnt get the people that play pantheon.
I dont take TBskyen seriously, he seems more like a troll or a person that thinks that they are “smart”.
In that video ashe herself wasn't meant to be overweight if I'm remembering correctly, saw it like 1-2 years ago so I can't remember for sure. I thought it was supposed to be layered clothing. But still other than that nitpick a lot of tbskyen's takes are silly
Not only is she an iceborn that is immune to the cold, wearing light clothing has its roots in Freljordian society. In the harsh environment they value strength as a necessity for survival. An imperviousness to the cold is a clear demonstration of strength. That's why many of the strongest Freljordians aren't heavily bundled up in warm furs. Including several non-Iceborn champions (Tryndamere, Udyr, and on release Braum was explicitly stated not to be Iceborn) as well as tobs of concept art and some LoR characters (Poro Herder, Unscarred Reaver, Avarosan Marksman, Scarthane Steffen etc.).
TBSkyen made had two main designs in his video, one where she was more heavily clothed and had scars on her face (his way of playing up "war" from her title of war mother) and one that was more heavily clothed and also fat (his way of making her "motherly" again from her title).
He toys with the idea of the concept of “gluttony” being skinny. Not because fat designs are offensive at all. He thinks highly of Tahm cause it is a great design it just fails to stick out from other gluttony based designs.
I enjoy his content and I agree with many of his takes but as a Pantheon main his take on Panth's legacy skins being his worst is FUCKING TRASH! Why the fuck does a skin need to put a champion into a new setting? Why the fuck can it not just look cool like Myrmidon, Perseus, and Glaive Warrior? Also him saying that Zombie Slayer is Panth's best skin when Baker and Dragonslayer are right there is stupid as hell.
I was pantheon main and i was like”what? i play him for the warrior skins thats why i like him”,baker skin is pretty solid and dragon slayer is really good its just sad that it wasnt a legendary.My favourite pantheon skins are Myrmidon and Pereseus.
TB is arguably the worst of the "lore/design" content creators out there right now. His takes are nearly universally bad. He's constantly coming across as an insufferable know it all, despite knowing very little about design.
I rather respect Necrit for having interesting ideas but I wouldn't call him unbiased. He has a bit too much of the toxic positivity thing going on sometimes as if he's trying to get Riot to give him a sponsorship of some sort. As if he's afraid to share his actual opinions if they are too negative.
This is kind of a nitpick (and my personal opinion) as overall his videos are fun and interesting. I just don't think its fair to call him unbiased when his bias is basically playing it safe and acting like he doesn't have a bias (because in reality no one is unbiased).
I mean were all people, theres no such thing as a perfectly unbiased person. But at least with him, he is still reasonable and put every perspective into consideration. I see your point about his way of giving opinion as being soft, but he still points out the good or the bad thing about something without having to go all in with his words
He's really not, y'all are just getting insanely defensive over some mundane subjective opinions. I've never once gotten the feeling he's trying to be objective and impose his opinion as fact in anything of his I've watched.
Can't recognize something that isn't there. I'm able to listen to takes I might not always agree with. Also feels like you're making the assumption I agree with his design takes all the time when I don't. If for you stating a subjective opinion is pushing bias onto somebody, boy are you gonna lose your hair on this website.
Being able to accept differing opinions and being able to detect when a bias is being fed to you are two different skills, not necessarily related to one another.
I can appreciate that you are a complex being who doesn't merely follow the every word of a Youtube creator. But I can also see that, based on your original response, you're either entirely incapable of detecting bias being pushed on you ever or that you're choosing wild exaggeration as a means of discourse.
What exactly is it that he does, that to you says he's pushing his bias, as opposed to just stating his opinion? What's the difference in your mind? His design philosophy which dictate his opinions on skins/champions? I recognize it just fine, don't necessarily agree with it all the time either.
Nah, Nickyboi is legit the good stuff. Love his rapid fire skins review and his casual champion reviews every Friday. Bro's been working himself to death tho being sick and still putting out content. I admire his work ethic but man, take a day off brother. We'll be here when you come back!
I used to like those 2 but my god they've become insufferable with their "redesigns" lately. Some are good don't get me wrong but shit like the Ashe one are so bad. I'm the first one to shit on Riot for God awful thirst bait design but TBSkyen and Nickyboi are such stereotypical redditors now.
Hell TbSkyen even has the soyjak look going for him. Balding, glasses, shitty beard
Nickybois redesigns are incredibly overrated and i dont understand his obsession with postint them everywhere. It comes across as a little egotistical to me.
Idek why people are complaining about the fact we get a cool angel of judgement that GETS COOLER with every level?? It's like 3 skins in 1 for every skin
Yeah true but still, hot angel with mostly 3 forms and flashy attacks. Worth it. They just need to put actual effort into their skins again in general, not just Kayle.
Some people focus too much on political nuances that aren’t even there. They’re just video game characters, and to be fair, good and well designed ones in regard to League at least.
These people just think anything that is feminine or attractive is sexualized. Then they cook up overweight Ashe as the solution and can’t figure out why they aren’t the ones designing these characters. It’s okay to have a video game character be visually appealing, it’s part of why people choose and play the characters they do. There’s nothing wrong with it.
Yes, some characters are overly sexualized to the point it doesn’t quite line up with reason or lore and those characters could benefit from a change. A lot of visual updates of this nature have been well received over the years. Riot have also gotten a lot better with this over the years with their new champions. Besides that, Kayle is not one of those sexualized designs at all. You can have your opinions and believe there are improvements to be had here and there on her general design, but she is definitely not sexualized like these obsessed content creators claim.
The TBSkyen guy has been drunk off his own know-it-all nonsense for a long time and some people just mindlessly regurgitate his horrendous takes, incapable of forming their own thoughts. It’s just the world we live in, people see and hear something on a screen and they believe it with complete conviction.
Ok… I feel you and surely there are absolutely some takes that need to not be bandwagon’d but… no this one’s pretty much objective (not whether it’s “good” design or not but rather it’s objectively going against her lore)
In lore, Kayle is OBSESSED with rejecting her humanity for her divinity. Casting aside all human aspects to become perfect order.
So casting aside her divine srmor to show her very human face does not make sense according to that lore.
I like the idea that maybe as she ascends she realizes order isn’t as absolute as she once thought but you can’t just ignore her lore/voice lines.
I personally love Kayle’s design but her ascension process would suit someone like Xerath who would break their shell and become more humanoid as their power grew.
Love the design, hate the contrasting themes. There’s an important distinction.
IMO it can go either way and make sense so I don’t really have a horse in this race. Putting on more armor to appear as a heavily armored, unstoppable force of justice is just as badass as her ascending to true godhood and no longer needing the armor to compensate for a weaker mortal body. There really isn’t a wrong answer here
Armor and headpieces are worn constantly by aspects all around. Most notably the Pantheon himself wears a helmet. Not Atreus(who does but not the point), the aspect of war himself wears a helmet. Volibear(the most vicious of the Frejlordian demigods) wore armor until his fight with Ornn, and given how much Kayle hates the very idea of being human to the point that’s why she flies everywhere, because she thinks herself above humans, what benefit is there to removing godly armor? Don’t JUST say down because someone you don’t like said up. It’s a valid point you make and I see where you’re coming from. Design is very very rarely objective, but looking at pros and cons, the only pro to taking her armor away for the pretty face is to sell skins.
I agree with you but the condescending and snarky comment at the end was completely unneeded and immature. The original commenter wasnt being rude at all.
while yea, she is obsessed , but I think , when she transcends these "human" feelings just fade away and she just denudes herself from any armour or any things "defensive" since now she (or it) is only here to punish (thus her swords). The concept of transcended kayle is literally that, shows that when she is fully godlike, she no longer wears any armour.
TBSkyen has a lot of takes that I felt were pretty much flat out wrong. His Dark Souls playthrough was especially annoying. He leaves out a lot of the nuance that makes the designs work and speaks in generalizations.
This on its own wouldn't exactly be a problem as having interesting opinions is fine but the fact that everyone is repeating him on every subreddit gets really annoying (looking at you Kai'Sa haters). Form your own opinions instead of repeating what one guy says about character design and treating it like gospel.
Ok so if I have my own opinion that is also coincidentally the same as tb skyen's then that means that "I can't form my own opinion" just because some self centered bum on yt said it louder?
If you share his opinion then articulate that clearly and expand upon what he says. Don't just repeat back his words verbatim. If that's all you want to do then just post a link to the video.
If all you have to say is exactly what he already said then you didn't actually form an opinion. You let him form an opinion for you that you just parrot to other people. I can even tell a lot of the time when people do this because they use the same phrases and terminology he uses.
This applies to anything. Even to youtubers I actually like and even to things like books and movies. If you want to comment on it do something that actually adds to the discussion and when you think someone already said it better then let their words speak for themselves.
In my case I agree with him in his analysis of Evelynn. If a game has to have a seductress character she is a very good interpretation of one. I also generally agree with him about Kai'Sa but also find pretty much every fan redesign of her to be really really weak. Her problem isn't her appearance but the way her story interacts with the established world building.
In the case of TBSkyen he has plenty of weak points in his videos even if you agree with his conclusions. For instance, the case of Ashe and how he hates that she doesn't wear cold weather clothing ignoring how that element of her design is a piece of storytelling connected to the world building with her being an Iceborn who doesn't feel the cold.
The video that made me stop watching him was when he did a playthrough of Dark Souls and criticized Quelaag for being a lame character design calling her an uninspired "black widow" archetype. Without going into a prolonged Dark Souls lore rant, he ignores the entire subtext of the demons in the game where they have the appearance of monsters but are not evil (you even see it in the boss fight when she hugs her lower half when casting spells or by how she is placed to defend the swamp from people who would attempt to kill her sister).
Which kind of speaks to my wider issue. He kind of ignores when character designs try to be unorthodox, or rather he doesn't like when they don't fit his preconceptions for how a character is "supposed to be designed." Including situations in which he ignores the world building (and how the character expresses the world building) because the world building includes paradoxical or unorthodox elements.
(also upon looking back this might sound a lot more aggressive than I mean it to be. I'm not talking about you specifically, just 'people in general.' I'm not trying to call you out or anything, just trying to comment on a trend)
His ashe redesign was horrible but cmon now, Kaisa's designs of being corrupted by the void with more body horror are so much better than the bodysuit purple woman that we have in-game
Maybe not the base, but a reworked Transcended Kayle perhaps? How about we actually make Transcended Kayle actually Transcend like her mother, rather than just an unmasked version?😱😱😱 Her wings will have eyes, her lvl 16 makes her glow gold like her mother with giants rings revolving around her
I’m not riding anyone bandwagon, I just miss the old kayle and new kayle will never be able to replace her, and I also get the point of her taking her armor off makes no sense but I also found your point understanding, tbf if Riot stick to her old design just a little bit and add hallo, it’ll be better, but of course that chest piece will stab her.
Now thats something i can respect. If youre just not fan of the new design and prefer the old one, then i will respect your opinion. If you see the design as impractical or some sort, then i respect that too. The bandwagon of twisting the new design concept meaning, to make it look bad or reversed is what im not agreeing to
Yeah I do hate the forcing of agreeing a hot takes like some big influencer on youtube, I am only trusting Necrit cause he is a big lore nerd, can’t ignore that everyone is biased so I just mostly ignore it.
I see smt i like
But seriously kayle is based around roman god statues same with mrogana her desibg makes sense and the logical co clusion to her is turning i sto astrea with her final ance cion form
Tbskyen not only has shit takes, but also takes himself waaay to seriously. He talks like riot is watching his every video and cares at all what his artistic opinion is.
Speaking of which, he is also very lost on the fact that they are his OPINION and not FACT. He talks like his opinion is the only viable artistic option.
the only thing I do agree with them is, the armour is spiky in her abdomen, if they did it more like battleborn kayle or earlier level viridian kayle would be good, however I stand with your point, like we have a skin that literally mirrors this, transcended kayle is her WITHOUT ANY ARMOR BECAUSE SHE TRANSCENDED and no longer needs armor only a blade to punish
I personally think she looks a bit… boring, and I do agree that losing the helmet does lack thematic sense, but Riot went for a certain theme here (not sure if its a good one, but whatever) and they definitely did it pretty well.
I mean, it's still a valid point regardless of how much you (or anyone for that matter) agrees (or disagrees) with it, or even how the artist intended the design to be interpreted, character design is not a one size fits all deal or an exact science; meaning that some people just won't "connect" with a design, regardless for the logic that goes behind the design.
First off, cry less holy goddamn, second off agreeing with someone is not the same thing as bandwagoning, third off, you have no right to say that your opinion is somehow more valid then theirs, if you dont believe she is flawed thats fine, if people do believe she is flawed thats also fine, get tf over it
I treat Skyen as more of a political youtuber than a league one. I don't agree with a lot of what he says but hearing other opinions is important.
Personally back when I played Kayle mid I always thought how cool a lvl 16 kayle becoming a being of pure light would be.
I think you are misunderstanding the critism. It's not the fact that she is removing armor. It's the fact she looks more "human" as she ascends. If she she'd her armor and she was nothing but burning feathers and swords for a face it would be fine.
But she just turns into white haired chick with yellow eyes.
Look at all the angels you posted and how many have a normal human face?
Huh? How about the other aspects? Theyre still humanoid bruh. She literally has wings that are burning in celestial fire. Also reference? 7 out of 9 have human faces LMAO!(Look at the video for better reference) WDYM🤣 Literally most of the gods and goddesses, angels, saints etc are humanoid and have human faces with wings. Are wings just not enough already to look ascended? Literally only Morg and Kayle have angelic wings🤡
https://youtube.com/shorts/vELXvby51Fc?feature=share
Your not understanding it. All those ones pictured have their faces covered. It is to detach them from being "human". It's not about the body it's the face. That's how we identify other humans. Our brains are made to recognize faces.
This is why covering the face of your character makes you less relatable. It's the connection you need to be "human". The only one up there clearly showing a human face is blue and you can see their organs. That's on the line, but still alien enough to be special.
It's all about the face bro, not just wings. So when Kayle takes off her helmet to show an normal human face, it grounds her as being human and not something transcendent. Which is the critism.
Look at Belveth, she has a human face until she ults, after that she is a monster. Same body, same animations, but once the human head and face is gone, it completely changes what she is to us.
I'm totally happy to chat about character design with you, and like I think Skyne has a few misses on his takes, but Kayle isn't really one of them.
Please step down off the stage after this, you did cook something but it kind of turn out to be “hey it should be based on this reference” kinda bullshit and completely not understanding the material, please read this guy comment again and think.
I'll never understand ppl calling her design and armor removing bad, it's literally explained in the simplest way possible why she takes it off (partially): SHE GETS STRONGER, no point for her to wear the armor if her skin is literally a better armor. Hell, isn't that a reason why Pantheon (the most powerful Aspect in Targon before his demise), whether an aspect or the human (Atreus) didn't wear basically any armor? I doubt his old pre-rework look is canon anymore.
He probably spoke about it from his own idea of a good game design standpoint, I'll have to find his short again and reform my opinion
But yeah even before his critique I personally loved how they did her evolution from Archangel+
I just miss her older armor because I think the spandex armor is weird lookin. I like her new wings and sword design a lot though, and her color scheme looks a lot more demacian as well
I think the aspects and other divine/celestial beings having little armor makes sense...after all, you are(or think you are) perfect all powerful being, you wouldn't need armor for protection and would want mortals to witness your being on its full splendor and not covered in layers and layers of armor...that being said, I just like old Kayle design way more, feel transcended Kayle should be the base new design, but whatever, between pre rework Kayle and new one, I take the old one without question, don't care if she looks like a WoW paladin, she is just way more cooler and her splash art was god like.
Right? It has always seemed pretty obvious to me that as she gets more powerful she needs less armor. And while I kinda get what they mean with armor making someone less approachable, I'd say the concept of wearing armor in battle is very human, it acknowledges that your body is vulnerable and can be hurt.
Wow you actually get it too❤️ like i don't get why some people especially tbskyen dont see it like you do. I thought he was supposed to be the concept/lore/design master🤡
My issue is why is she sexualized now. When I first picked her up from thought they were a guy for about 3-4 months until I read her lore. This was prerework
Is she? Also if there are weird sexualized crap on kayle, i think thats kinda normal on any champs, even on lillia😭 If you think kayle is sexualized now, you might be baffled by the others😆
in all fairness why do people say kayle is an angel? , shes an aspect? half aspect? that looks like what we believe an angel looks like not an actual angel
Its in her official description. Its just a way of simpler and understandable term used to describe her since saying shes a type of choir, a seraph etc would be tricky to understand, especially to the younger audience or the non christians. Angels are more well known universally, thats why they used that terminology
I feel like you need to calm down a bit. Sure, it's lazy to parrot other viewpoints, but I'm going to lend a hard doubt that Kayle's ascension revealing more of her is some well-crafted thematic breakdown of her character and mythological influences.
Prior to her redesign Kayle was very much League's Samus, she had an ambiguous design that didn't really tell you she was female at a glance, and it was clear when they took her armor away that they wanted to ensure people knew she was female, among other things, (Full Plate Melee doesn't scream squishy late game carry). While I don't think that Kayle needs to be portrayed with the cold justice reading that's supported by people like Skyen and Nicki, I also don't think Kayle's base design is all that well done, and barely makes her look less "Generic Angel" than when she was a faceless mob.
Bro whoever wrote this has gotten riled up about how NickyBoi and TBSkyen are “brainwashing people into thinking Kayle’s base design is bad”. BRO, they’re called personal opinions and Hot takes for a reason. Don’t see NickyBoi actively saying and hating of Kayle’s design for the fun of it and telling everyone they should hate the base level up design concepts for Kayle. And TBSkyen is someone who actually does hot takes on characters BESIDES KAYLE. He’s said stuff like “Okay, Sett’s design could lean more into his animal nature as being a half-Vastaya” and “Oh, Sylas’s design doesn’t make complete sense since he was in a jail cell and a prisoner of war, his physique doesn’t match the lore of the character”. Heck! Multiple people have made these critiques about Sett and Sylas, and I’m someone who actually agrees with these critiques because I’m a fan of the lore and art of character design. You don’t see SettMains or SylasMains saying stuff like this. But the second someone makes a small biased/personal take about Kayle, you get STRAIGHT TO REDDIT and scream about it to your peers. And I can tell by how many emojis you bloody used that I can tell you were having a blond tantrum about this. Act bloody mature. You’re (possibly) an adolescent or older. Act like one. Quit calling biased opinions brainwashing, ignore them if you’re against them.
And yes, circling back to my other point, I like Kayle’s design too, but don’t go ranting about it because you disagree with it!
So they can post whatever they want cuz its their opinion but when i post something to show how Kayle's design direction actually is, cuz their posted narrative regarding her reworked concept is absolutely wrong made me immature and dont deserve to tell my own "hot take"?
My hot take is that their way of thinking and how they perceived and approached Kayle's rework design is wrong, and I'm educating the people who have misleading information or started the misinformation.
https://preview.redd.it/61kss73itcpc1.png?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0104937523035ab99f4853d4e1907a68ee98e16
Hell, I somewhat agree, I like Kayle’s level up mechanic, and it works well for skin thematics, but yes, I am torn on these thematics with both KayleMains and YouTubers
HAHAHAHA see? "Force into others" now you see my point. What these big creators did is force a narrative to lots of people cuz they have a big audience. do you know how many champ and skin designs TBSkyen has ruined just cuz of his hot takes? Some people actually got brainwashed into thinking that the design of the said champ or skin he has his "opinion" made the viewers not like it too, EVEN WHEN THE AUDIENCE LIKED IT BEFORE HAND! Now thats forcing it to others. They changed how they look at the design just cuz of him. I for one educated them with this post. Did i ever force it?🤡
If the idea is meant to reflect archangels ascending into cherubim, then maybe its translate better (and frankly I think be way cooler) if they made her actually look more like a cherubim? Go a little more biblically accurate angel and less “generic pretty lady” with it.
I don’t know, I’d probably be more interested in her that way. But I much prefer monster champs or even just something different than another genetically pretty lady. I’m sort of tired of “most milquetoast woman you’ve ever seen” being the only thing considered “sellable”
I love monster champs too. But thats for the skins, not as her base design. Monster champs do look good and are a fan favourite, but humanoid skins still are more sellable than them. That's why theres lots of lux ez skin in pc and sera & gwen in mobile. A skin though for Kayle where she looks monstrous like the suneater kayle concept is amazing.
I always thought the idea of kayle getting progressively more powerful to the point where her helmet explodes off her head because the power within cannot be contained was cool af.
Your reasoning is, first of all, incorrect, and second of all, missing the point.
To the first point consider that league is oftentimes about combat with non-mortals, including beings that are basically galaxies, realizations of concepts, or just other non-mortals, Kayle would NEED appropriate armor even after ascending. Additionally, you need to realize that as someone is stronger they can wear more armor, so as Kayle ascends, she should wear the armor that she has "unlocked" by ascending.
To address what I consider to be the more important point, design takes reasoning to the backfoot in games like league. This means that no matter what reasoning you can come up with, it is more important for a character to look imposing when they should look imposing. Which is what kayle should look like at higher levels, as she ascends. As a rule aesthetic is more important than realism, because games aren't real but the emotions they empart are.
I'm not a character designer but a general rule of videogame design is that a feeling of size and weight is incredibly important for conveying power.
In the end though this is really silly. Someone saying a character has design flaws isnt enough to get this mad over. TBSkyen is just making videos about his opinion, you can just disagree without getting upset.
She isn’t mortal. Armor is a human construct. Yes, there are powerful beings in the lore but how many of them are fully equipped in heavy armor?
It makes more sense that she sheds her armor as she ascends than randomly getting armor from no where. It’s cooler conceptually and the idea itself helps convey her power better than if she had to hide behind more mortal armor while becoming ascended.
I’ll agree her design could be touched up upon in certain areas, but the whole argument against her losing her armor is crazy.
Powerful, non-humans do have armor or things like armor in lore.
Even if you disagree with that part, it was unimportant anyways. Only made to point out that the "reasoning" given in the post is subjective, and not really the issue to be talked about.
You could give any number of reasons for either side and it wouldn't matter.
Yeah, a very few have an overwhelming amount of armor and usually it fits their thematic. Mordekaiser for example is the IRON revenant.
Most VERY strong beings in lore don’t really use armor. Not that it matters like you say but it just shows the parallel between armor and power doesn’t exist. Thus nullifying the argument some people have that she should have more armor solely off the idea that she has transcended and became more powerful.
Kaylee’s power is conveyed through other means. Becoming bulkier and weightier isn’t the only way to convey power visually.
Im not mad as the design flaw, I'm annoyed at how he manipulated the community into thinking her design concept is the other way around and it made it a flaw when its not. Maybe take a look at this so youll understand my perspective well https://youtube.com/shorts/vELXvby51Fc?si=bjkd3gFe_ZqOrMHf
The other way around? Manipulative? If anything it feels a little "manipulative" to act like TBSkyen's [3 year old video](https://youtube.com/shorts/ch8aIyesIT8?si=LyCZbtei4hhAaBRH) was full of lies mistruths and weird arguments. When you know for sure 90% of people interacting with the post don't even remember it, so you can make it sound as bad as you want and people won't call you out for being ridiculous.
He literally spent 5 seconds talking about how her design should make her look less human as she levels, to follow her lore of being less human as she levels, and that removing the armor makes her look more human.
Edit: if you are talking about his [30 minute video](https://youtu.be/Hor9qlDoyIY?si=hXpp_gsCtgttPK00), that is even worse as it is 5 years old.
So if its old, it cant be manipulated anymore? I wonder why some people in the community still think kayle design is the other way around. U think they just made that up by themselves? I posted this cuz one of my subscribers said that about her design concept. No one started the "kayle should add more armor" opinion other than TBSkyen. That means his opinion still lives on throughout the years that you stated🙊
It's a bit hypocritical of you to say that the critique that Kayle should have more armor as she ascends is bad because she doesn't need armor since she is more godlike as she levels when you point out the inconsistency of her chest armor is necessary because of "muh symbology".
Choose one dude, either armor is good because it symbolizes something or she doesn't need it at all for practical purposes.
I find it convenient too that BOTH your points suggest kayle to remain showing more of her body when that couldn't be farther from her objective in lore, to separate herself entirely from humanity and judge them ruthlessly from above.
That is why you do not see legitemately good suggestions on how to fix Kayle because nobody asks.
People care and care a lot, that is why they are here, and there exist many, many more places like this one that unite people under the same interest, on reddit and in many other places.
The archangel description is just flat out wrong lol. There are plenty more archangels humanity knows by name.
No clue what the streamers are saying as I've never watched them, but there is an apparent design flaw - why does an angel, a being if pure magic, have the lowest MR in the game? She should have one of the highest, like how tf does an ordinary soldier like Garen with NO enchanted armor have so much more MR than her?? I mean late game when she's supposed to shine, she is easier for mages to burst down than ANY ADC in the game. Playing her takes far more skill than it should, compared to the many other champs who really have no lore reason to be so strong and easy to win with.
Lmao why r u comparing her stats to her lore😂 mechanics are the last stretch for everyone to reference a character design to the game design. Shes still weak defensively early cuz she is still a mortal. The armor is not really for defense, its to cover up her mortal body. The stats nerf is for people to stop playing kayle in the midlane(riot august, kayle designer once stated)
The only design flaw I got is her chestplate being designed to stab her if she bends forward.
Actually i have something for that. It signifies that the law doesn't bend, therefore she needs to remain in good posture. If she bends, she gets stabbed by her armor. "I will not bend" as she says
There are many arbitrary reasons to bend forward. Sitting up when laid down, hunching over from a gut punch or to pick something up. The symbolism, while valid, is meaningless if it completely erases the concept of practicality as a downside.
Sounds like a skill issue, mortal. -Kayle
The real skill issue was killing yo daddy as collateral when you threw a hissyfit at Morgana, Kayle. - yours truly, a random redditor.
yeah and I'll bet she wears form-fitting spandex because she "needs freedom of movement". Look, man, the reason a lot of artists have similar critiques of Kayle's design is because to artists - particularly concept artists - these are pretty basic issues of design. My main bugbears with her are that her old armor's androgyny was one of her most appealing points to a lot of kayle players, and them giving her a sexy hourglass design felt incredibly pointless and boring (ooo, sexy thin girls with identical faces, we definitely didn't have enough of those in League) *especially* given her new lore is all about her trying to embody an inhuman ideal of law. Concept artists and art critics are just generally more equipped to see part of a design and figure out if something was a specific point of symbolism or just a bad choice. If Kayle's chestplate was actually SUPPOSED to represent that and not just have a pleasing shape language, poorly applied, then the spike would have been an actual spike anchored to her chestplate. Remember, the woman has pauldrons the size of her head and gets more wings whens he levels up. Her sister has tears burned into her face and chained up her angel wings. *Riot is not in the business of subtle character design.* (Nor should they be, when it's an isometric game.)
If you read her lore, she only has little armor and more of a white leather suit cuz her main purpose of it is to cover up her mortal body and flesh, not really for defense. Thats why she has low defense in design and in game. More on just armor plates. She still needs to maintain her agility when in fight and flight, thats why her passive is Zealous giving movement and atk speed. And i think riot knows how to make armor given theres so many armoured champs on league already and i wondered, why her chest plate is shaped like that? Literally 3 metal spikes will stab her sternum and sides. I believe, those are key details that resembles her Law that cannot be bend. She trained herself to not bend, cuz its a sign of frailty. Its not only that she shouldn't, but she made it where she cant, physically and mentally. She refuses to bow down or bend, thats why most of her default splash art are posed with her chest out with pride. Thsts my take on it. If your main take is only about you preferring her old design over the new then i dont mind it. But if you pit your design concept to diminish the value of the current design and twisting its idea to something different making it look like the concept is bad, then thats where i draw the line. Theres a beauty in the new design that you guys foreshadowed with your preference of the old design.
\> If you read her lore, she only has little armor and more of a white leather suit cuz her main purpose of it is to cover up her mortal body and flesh, not really for defense. Thats why she has low defense in design and in game. More on just armor plates. She still needs to maintain her agility when in fight and flight, thats why her passive is Zealous giving movement and atk speed. does she breathe through her skin too?
Hey I like Quiet leave her alone.
And I like Kayle, but let's not act like sex appeal didn't play any part in the design process is all i'm saying lfiesjlfijsef
Upvoted for dedication
“I have something for that” yeah bro con men proved centuries ago you can spin anything with symbolism and metaphor play. It’s not rational or good tho lmao
Brother just because you can make up some roundabout reasoning to "explain" something doesnt mean that the original is without flaw. You can like something and still admit it isn't perfect.
Isn't that what most of the lore nerds and artists do? Find a meaning to things? Thats the fun thing about art and League especially. Cuz they have lots of easter eggs and details we can nit pick and find a reason behind it. If you find it as a flaw, then thats your opinion. I found a way behind the design element and reflect it to her design concept which makes sense so I'll believe in that. Didn't you ever wonder why all of the armoured champs even before the Kayle rework design have proper armor but for some reason Kayl has this? Its just my design approach speculation. If you dont see it, then i cant force you to. Im just stating my opinion
Bro your irrationally in love with a league of legends waifu. Just because it's flawed doesn't mean you can't keep cranking your hog to it every night after going 3-8 on the rift. Nobody is attacking you or kayle calm down
Huh? Im just talking like a civilised person🤣 WDYM? I cant reply and explain my opinions?😂
Your opinions are unhinged ramblings of a fanatic that took offense to a youtube video about a fictional character who you attached your entire existence to.....
So TBSkyen can ramble and i cant?🤣🤣🤣🤣 I may sound really intense on my post but im just chillin here typin shit out. Maybe youre the one who needs to chill out🥶
Theres a difference between retroactively headcannoning things after a poor design decision, and having pre established lore reasons that lead to a seemingly bad decision. They just arent the same. You could make up a roundabout reason explaining everything about kayle just by saying "it represents justice because the law doesnt ____." There's absolutely nothing in the lore that points to a conclusion like "kayle maintains good posture so her armor doesnt stab her but she doesnt use better armor because the law doesnt bend." Additionally all the armored champions before kayle dont have perfect armor. J4s is far too extravagant (albiet it gets a pass bc its Royal armor and for slaying dragons in a fantasy setting). Multiple women champions have boob armor or cleavage windows. Riot has consistently chosen sex appeal over functional armor for female champions and they did the same with kayle. Its ok to acknowledge this as a flaw instead of coping with odd theories lol. No shame in it and it isnt "ruining" kayle to have gripesnwith her design. Changing kayles armor from how it was pre-rework to how it is now was about as objectively a poor decision as you could make in something as subjective as character design. It takes away from her lore, core themes, and character appeal imho
Boobytrap
I absolutely agree, tbskyen often has shit takes ngl. But damn chill a bit lmao
Most notably he cant wrap his head around Azir and Xerath.
It’s because he despises Azir for being royalty. Jarvan, too. Now I’m not some monarchist simp myself, but it feels like TBSkyen has a real axe to grind on that front.
Dude let politics too deep into his mind. Atleast he is just the annoying kind instead of the not see kind.
Sorry, i just woke up and one of my subscribers had this question in my comments and it annoyed me, cuz i 100% know that they got this info from TBSkyen or from the bandwagon already. I dont want these big creators spreading misinformation to my subscribers👌
The dude constantly has shitty opinions left, right, and center, ALL. THE. TIME. I remember him trying to shit on Larian Studios because the murder hobo of the game is, in his words, albino (it's a fucking white dragonborn). It's as if he believes they were purposefully trying to stigmatize people using the character. What makes this even worse is that his appearance was chosen by the community.
The Durge character is also customizable when you select it. Ive never played it as a white dragonborn.
As much as i enjoy his videos so etines he just thinks to much kn a small box No not every deoiction of royalty police or k ight is supposed to be evil
Nah, they’ve been spouting nonsense for years, he’s the acceptable amount of “calm.” I knew TBSyken was a joke when one of his Ashe redesigns was just making her fat 💀 Their viewers are the same people who’s only creative redesign for Kaisa is making her ugly af.
The real Kaisa redesign we need is proper void corruption on the suit, but yeah there are questionable designs from him
Did you actually watch the Ashe video or just see a screenshot and jump to conclusions? The fat ashe is quite interesting from a design standpoint as its meant to lean more into other aspects of Ashe's character that isnt "ice archer woman."
Yeah I watched the whole video and laughed my ass off when it got to fat Ashe 😂 Look female characters don’t have to be anime girls in skimpy outfits, in fact I prefer it when they’re not. But fat Ashe ain’t it. I know his thought process, I understand where he’s coming from, it doesent make the design any less dog water.
...why isnt fat ashe it? If you understand both the thought process/reasoning, Im not really getting where the hate is coming from. You can disagree with the design for the character and still acknowledge that it would be an interesting take on said character. TBSkeyen sought to make a design for ashe that was as "interesting" as possible, with his criteria for interesting being something along the lines of "as far away from traditional fantasy stereotypes while also being consistent with the character's lore/background/personality." Under that lense of analysis, what is the issue with fat ashe other than maybe not being visually appealing?
If we were taking about a brand new champion maybe it would work. But even under that leans there’s just better designs even for the character profile they were going for. But we’re talking about a champion with an already established character. If you’re going to focus heavily one aspect over the other that’s fine but you have to keep the other aspects somewhat intact. They wanted to focus heavily on the “war mother” aspect of her character but I don’t even think it does that particularly well either. I really do think making her big is was purely to try and make it a design as far removed from what anyone would consider attractive at all because those people are allergic to real women.
Stupid fucking comment, no they did not make the design to make your dick soft and no they aren't "allergic to women". I'm not even a fan and I know how much he loves sexy women. And what the fuck is "real women" even supposed to mean?
Well I mean there can almost always be a better design lol, there are very few "perfect" design." Iirc Skeyen had argued that in terms of lore, Ashe's role as warmother and leader of her tribe is more important to her character than frost archer, yet her design didnt reflect that priority in roles. Personally I wouldnt say that her other aspects were lost, just that theyd taken a backseat to the ones more central to ashe as a character. You might be right on the last point, making her large could be an attempt at rage bait or to generate a conversation, but personally I dont see much wrong with it especially when there are logical reasons for it outside of said ragebait. Im not really a fan of the fat ashe design either, and it does have its flaws, but I feel that people have a really violent kneejerk reaction to it without understanding the reasonable logic behind it. Its not perfect, but again, it fits literally all of the criteria that TbSkeyen had originally set out to achieve with his design. On that premise it's quite a good design
Also, you know, maybe, just maybe, her ascensione are meant to be interpreted as a good thing, which is why she appear more human. Just to include a thematic aspect to it as well.
Ill make a short regarding this concept. Ill post it here
https://youtube.com/shorts/vELXvby51Fc?si=C1OxdX30MPYth6DO
I stopped watching tbskyen cuz he had shit takes
I don't always agree with his takes, this much is true. Fat Ashe, albino durge, red beard GP, and Riot Graves just to name a few. But he also provides a different perspective and has some also good ideas and suggestions. Adt is subjective at the end of the day so while I think his tastes and kine don't exactly align, I do like hearing some of his ideas.
Yeah his take on the riot skins is just stupid.
real lmao
I really can't take you seriously with all the fucking 🤣 an 🤡 , you just sound like an mad teenager, no need to be disrespectful to ppl.
yed there is this is the internet one can not be civil here you love or hate someone never in between
“No need to be disrespectful to ppl” As you disrespectful…. Hmmm 🧐
To be fair I stopped watching TBskyen after seeing some videos and shorts, in every material he sounds so full of himself and how he is the greatest designer etc xdd. I still remember when he complained that Pantheon has same armour skins(which he doesnt but sure he could use some new ideas) which shows that he doesnt get the people that play pantheon. I dont take TBskyen seriously, he seems more like a troll or a person that thinks that they are “smart”.
you mean the 60yo 90kg ashe running around and shooting arrows
I couldn’t take him seriously after he said that Ashe shouldn’t be thin…
Speaking of this, the 2024 cinematic cleaned up ashes design MASSIVELY from her old design, would recommend taking a look its so much better
I am sorry ,what??I think you mean pantheon (since 60yo and 90kg ) but the Ashe part got me confused
Think they are referring to the infamous Ashe rework he did, which was basically a overweight Ashe
In that video ashe herself wasn't meant to be overweight if I'm remembering correctly, saw it like 1-2 years ago so I can't remember for sure. I thought it was supposed to be layered clothing. But still other than that nitpick a lot of tbskyen's takes are silly
yeah she was wearing thick clothing...Like you know... as if she lives in a fucking ice desert or something. Novel thing.
She's immune to the cold as an Iceborne.
Not only is she an iceborn that is immune to the cold, wearing light clothing has its roots in Freljordian society. In the harsh environment they value strength as a necessity for survival. An imperviousness to the cold is a clear demonstration of strength. That's why many of the strongest Freljordians aren't heavily bundled up in warm furs. Including several non-Iceborn champions (Tryndamere, Udyr, and on release Braum was explicitly stated not to be Iceborn) as well as tobs of concept art and some LoR characters (Poro Herder, Unscarred Reaver, Avarosan Marksman, Scarthane Steffen etc.). TBSkyen made had two main designs in his video, one where she was more heavily clothed and had scars on her face (his way of playing up "war" from her title of war mother) and one that was more heavily clothed and also fat (his way of making her "motherly" again from her title).
Dammm…i didnt see that holy, i saw the skinny tahm kench where tahm kenck being fat was offensive and something like that.
He toys with the idea of the concept of “gluttony” being skinny. Not because fat designs are offensive at all. He thinks highly of Tahm cause it is a great design it just fails to stick out from other gluttony based designs.
I enjoy his content and I agree with many of his takes but as a Pantheon main his take on Panth's legacy skins being his worst is FUCKING TRASH! Why the fuck does a skin need to put a champion into a new setting? Why the fuck can it not just look cool like Myrmidon, Perseus, and Glaive Warrior? Also him saying that Zombie Slayer is Panth's best skin when Baker and Dragonslayer are right there is stupid as hell.
I was pantheon main and i was like”what? i play him for the warrior skins thats why i like him”,baker skin is pretty solid and dragon slayer is really good its just sad that it wasnt a legendary.My favourite pantheon skins are Myrmidon and Pereseus.
He is not the only one that can't differentiate between skin and main lore.
TB is arguably the worst of the "lore/design" content creators out there right now. His takes are nearly universally bad. He's constantly coming across as an insufferable know it all, despite knowing very little about design.
I think he has a big head and feels superior🤡
Yeah, but like I say before dominating as Kayle ADC: There's *feeling* superior and then there's *being* superior.
Who in your opinion are the top 3 lore/design content creators in League?
Top 3? More like the only one whos actually unbiased is necrit. Only him. Nickyboi is fun to watch but hes biased
I rather respect Necrit for having interesting ideas but I wouldn't call him unbiased. He has a bit too much of the toxic positivity thing going on sometimes as if he's trying to get Riot to give him a sponsorship of some sort. As if he's afraid to share his actual opinions if they are too negative. This is kind of a nitpick (and my personal opinion) as overall his videos are fun and interesting. I just don't think its fair to call him unbiased when his bias is basically playing it safe and acting like he doesn't have a bias (because in reality no one is unbiased).
I mean were all people, theres no such thing as a perfectly unbiased person. But at least with him, he is still reasonable and put every perspective into consideration. I see your point about his way of giving opinion as being soft, but he still points out the good or the bad thing about something without having to go all in with his words
He's really not, y'all are just getting insanely defensive over some mundane subjective opinions. I've never once gotten the feeling he's trying to be objective and impose his opinion as fact in anything of his I've watched.
Your inability to recognize him pushing his own bias onto you isn't proof that he isn't doing it, I'm afraid.
Can't recognize something that isn't there. I'm able to listen to takes I might not always agree with. Also feels like you're making the assumption I agree with his design takes all the time when I don't. If for you stating a subjective opinion is pushing bias onto somebody, boy are you gonna lose your hair on this website.
Being able to accept differing opinions and being able to detect when a bias is being fed to you are two different skills, not necessarily related to one another. I can appreciate that you are a complex being who doesn't merely follow the every word of a Youtube creator. But I can also see that, based on your original response, you're either entirely incapable of detecting bias being pushed on you ever or that you're choosing wild exaggeration as a means of discourse.
What exactly is it that he does, that to you says he's pushing his bias, as opposed to just stating his opinion? What's the difference in your mind? His design philosophy which dictate his opinions on skins/champions? I recognize it just fine, don't necessarily agree with it all the time either.
There’s a difference between pushing a bias and explaining why you have an opinion.
Correct. For example, our subject, TB, readily pushes a personal bias rather than state an opinion and then explain why he has it.
Wait I thought we were talking bout Nickyboi, I don’t watch TB enough to know which one he’s doing.
Nah, Nickyboi is legit the good stuff. Love his rapid fire skins review and his casual champion reviews every Friday. Bro's been working himself to death tho being sick and still putting out content. I admire his work ethic but man, take a day off brother. We'll be here when you come back!
Aight you cool, I don’t have a reason to be on reddit anymore and have work, hope you have a good day!
I wish she had MORE armor
I used to like those 2 but my god they've become insufferable with their "redesigns" lately. Some are good don't get me wrong but shit like the Ashe one are so bad. I'm the first one to shit on Riot for God awful thirst bait design but TBSkyen and Nickyboi are such stereotypical redditors now. Hell TbSkyen even has the soyjak look going for him. Balding, glasses, shitty beard
Nickybois redesigns are incredibly overrated and i dont understand his obsession with postint them everywhere. It comes across as a little egotistical to me.
Frfr
Heres a detailed explanation https://youtube.com/shorts/vELXvby51Fc?si=C1OxdX30MPYth6DO
Her sword is more important to her symbol of justice than the armor.
Idek why people are complaining about the fact we get a cool angel of judgement that GETS COOLER with every level?? It's like 3 skins in 1 for every skin
It was never 3 in one in the first place, its only 2 now, cause Riot is lazy to make a slight changes in her second form.
Yeah true but still, hot angel with mostly 3 forms and flashy attacks. Worth it. They just need to put actual effort into their skins again in general, not just Kayle.
Some people focus too much on political nuances that aren’t even there. They’re just video game characters, and to be fair, good and well designed ones in regard to League at least. These people just think anything that is feminine or attractive is sexualized. Then they cook up overweight Ashe as the solution and can’t figure out why they aren’t the ones designing these characters. It’s okay to have a video game character be visually appealing, it’s part of why people choose and play the characters they do. There’s nothing wrong with it. Yes, some characters are overly sexualized to the point it doesn’t quite line up with reason or lore and those characters could benefit from a change. A lot of visual updates of this nature have been well received over the years. Riot have also gotten a lot better with this over the years with their new champions. Besides that, Kayle is not one of those sexualized designs at all. You can have your opinions and believe there are improvements to be had here and there on her general design, but she is definitely not sexualized like these obsessed content creators claim. The TBSkyen guy has been drunk off his own know-it-all nonsense for a long time and some people just mindlessly regurgitate his horrendous takes, incapable of forming their own thoughts. It’s just the world we live in, people see and hear something on a screen and they believe it with complete conviction.
Ok… I feel you and surely there are absolutely some takes that need to not be bandwagon’d but… no this one’s pretty much objective (not whether it’s “good” design or not but rather it’s objectively going against her lore) In lore, Kayle is OBSESSED with rejecting her humanity for her divinity. Casting aside all human aspects to become perfect order. So casting aside her divine srmor to show her very human face does not make sense according to that lore. I like the idea that maybe as she ascends she realizes order isn’t as absolute as she once thought but you can’t just ignore her lore/voice lines. I personally love Kayle’s design but her ascension process would suit someone like Xerath who would break their shell and become more humanoid as their power grew. Love the design, hate the contrasting themes. There’s an important distinction.
Do you see mihira put more armor to reject humanity on the reach for divinity? Armor is for mortals..divine beings dont need armor babe😘
IMO it can go either way and make sense so I don’t really have a horse in this race. Putting on more armor to appear as a heavily armored, unstoppable force of justice is just as badass as her ascending to true godhood and no longer needing the armor to compensate for a weaker mortal body. There really isn’t a wrong answer here
That is true. Now the reworks has the 2 ideas in one. Being a badass armoured judicator in early and an ascending go punisher in the late
Armor and headpieces are worn constantly by aspects all around. Most notably the Pantheon himself wears a helmet. Not Atreus(who does but not the point), the aspect of war himself wears a helmet. Volibear(the most vicious of the Frejlordian demigods) wore armor until his fight with Ornn, and given how much Kayle hates the very idea of being human to the point that’s why she flies everywhere, because she thinks herself above humans, what benefit is there to removing godly armor? Don’t JUST say down because someone you don’t like said up. It’s a valid point you make and I see where you’re coming from. Design is very very rarely objective, but looking at pros and cons, the only pro to taking her armor away for the pretty face is to sell skins.
Well yes ofc i do agree with the sellable aspect too
I agree with you but the condescending and snarky comment at the end was completely unneeded and immature. The original commenter wasnt being rude at all.
https://preview.redd.it/zr6o7nd4bdpc1.png?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2d8c7170da2bcc281c48a7bdefc8a99ae58d634
while yea, she is obsessed , but I think , when she transcends these "human" feelings just fade away and she just denudes herself from any armour or any things "defensive" since now she (or it) is only here to punish (thus her swords). The concept of transcended kayle is literally that, shows that when she is fully godlike, she no longer wears any armour.
TBSkyen has a lot of takes that I felt were pretty much flat out wrong. His Dark Souls playthrough was especially annoying. He leaves out a lot of the nuance that makes the designs work and speaks in generalizations. This on its own wouldn't exactly be a problem as having interesting opinions is fine but the fact that everyone is repeating him on every subreddit gets really annoying (looking at you Kai'Sa haters). Form your own opinions instead of repeating what one guy says about character design and treating it like gospel.
His video on the ceaseless discharge boss 💀
I got so pissed off after hearing his take on Quelaag and the fire witches that I stopped watching him all together.
Ok so if I have my own opinion that is also coincidentally the same as tb skyen's then that means that "I can't form my own opinion" just because some self centered bum on yt said it louder?
If you share his opinion then articulate that clearly and expand upon what he says. Don't just repeat back his words verbatim. If that's all you want to do then just post a link to the video. If all you have to say is exactly what he already said then you didn't actually form an opinion. You let him form an opinion for you that you just parrot to other people. I can even tell a lot of the time when people do this because they use the same phrases and terminology he uses. This applies to anything. Even to youtubers I actually like and even to things like books and movies. If you want to comment on it do something that actually adds to the discussion and when you think someone already said it better then let their words speak for themselves. In my case I agree with him in his analysis of Evelynn. If a game has to have a seductress character she is a very good interpretation of one. I also generally agree with him about Kai'Sa but also find pretty much every fan redesign of her to be really really weak. Her problem isn't her appearance but the way her story interacts with the established world building. In the case of TBSkyen he has plenty of weak points in his videos even if you agree with his conclusions. For instance, the case of Ashe and how he hates that she doesn't wear cold weather clothing ignoring how that element of her design is a piece of storytelling connected to the world building with her being an Iceborn who doesn't feel the cold. The video that made me stop watching him was when he did a playthrough of Dark Souls and criticized Quelaag for being a lame character design calling her an uninspired "black widow" archetype. Without going into a prolonged Dark Souls lore rant, he ignores the entire subtext of the demons in the game where they have the appearance of monsters but are not evil (you even see it in the boss fight when she hugs her lower half when casting spells or by how she is placed to defend the swamp from people who would attempt to kill her sister). Which kind of speaks to my wider issue. He kind of ignores when character designs try to be unorthodox, or rather he doesn't like when they don't fit his preconceptions for how a character is "supposed to be designed." Including situations in which he ignores the world building (and how the character expresses the world building) because the world building includes paradoxical or unorthodox elements. (also upon looking back this might sound a lot more aggressive than I mean it to be. I'm not talking about you specifically, just 'people in general.' I'm not trying to call you out or anything, just trying to comment on a trend)
His ashe redesign was horrible but cmon now, Kaisa's designs of being corrupted by the void with more body horror are so much better than the bodysuit purple woman that we have in-game
i just want her to get more eyes and a halo and then im fuckin set
Maybe not the base, but a reworked Transcended Kayle perhaps? How about we actually make Transcended Kayle actually Transcend like her mother, rather than just an unmasked version?😱😱😱 Her wings will have eyes, her lvl 16 makes her glow gold like her mother with giants rings revolving around her
I’m not riding anyone bandwagon, I just miss the old kayle and new kayle will never be able to replace her, and I also get the point of her taking her armor off makes no sense but I also found your point understanding, tbf if Riot stick to her old design just a little bit and add hallo, it’ll be better, but of course that chest piece will stab her.
Now thats something i can respect. If youre just not fan of the new design and prefer the old one, then i will respect your opinion. If you see the design as impractical or some sort, then i respect that too. The bandwagon of twisting the new design concept meaning, to make it look bad or reversed is what im not agreeing to
Yeah I do hate the forcing of agreeing a hot takes like some big influencer on youtube, I am only trusting Necrit cause he is a big lore nerd, can’t ignore that everyone is biased so I just mostly ignore it.
I see smt i like But seriously kayle is based around roman god statues same with mrogana her desibg makes sense and the logical co clusion to her is turning i sto astrea with her final ance cion form
Tbskyen not only has shit takes, but also takes himself waaay to seriously. He talks like riot is watching his every video and cares at all what his artistic opinion is. Speaking of which, he is also very lost on the fact that they are his OPINION and not FACT. He talks like his opinion is the only viable artistic option.
TBskyen is the Vaush of league
I see smt i like
the only thing I do agree with them is, the armour is spiky in her abdomen, if they did it more like battleborn kayle or earlier level viridian kayle would be good, however I stand with your point, like we have a skin that literally mirrors this, transcended kayle is her WITHOUT ANY ARMOR BECAUSE SHE TRANSCENDED and no longer needs armor only a blade to punish
I personally think she looks a bit… boring, and I do agree that losing the helmet does lack thematic sense, but Riot went for a certain theme here (not sure if its a good one, but whatever) and they definitely did it pretty well.
Upvote for the SMT reference , nice one my guy
I mean, it's still a valid point regardless of how much you (or anyone for that matter) agrees (or disagrees) with it, or even how the artist intended the design to be interpreted, character design is not a one size fits all deal or an exact science; meaning that some people just won't "connect" with a design, regardless for the logic that goes behind the design.
The only design flaw is how atrocious the match up is against nasus.
LMFAO same here i hate it too😭
Just because people agree with him doesn’t make it a bandwagon, u just call it that cuz you don’t agree.
First off, cry less holy goddamn, second off agreeing with someone is not the same thing as bandwagoning, third off, you have no right to say that your opinion is somehow more valid then theirs, if you dont believe she is flawed thats fine, if people do believe she is flawed thats also fine, get tf over it
The only design flaw she has is that she is too hot I can't concentrate on my games
I treat Skyen as more of a political youtuber than a league one. I don't agree with a lot of what he says but hearing other opinions is important. Personally back when I played Kayle mid I always thought how cool a lvl 16 kayle becoming a being of pure light would be.
I think you are misunderstanding the critism. It's not the fact that she is removing armor. It's the fact she looks more "human" as she ascends. If she she'd her armor and she was nothing but burning feathers and swords for a face it would be fine. But she just turns into white haired chick with yellow eyes. Look at all the angels you posted and how many have a normal human face?
Huh? How about the other aspects? Theyre still humanoid bruh. She literally has wings that are burning in celestial fire. Also reference? 7 out of 9 have human faces LMAO!(Look at the video for better reference) WDYM🤣 Literally most of the gods and goddesses, angels, saints etc are humanoid and have human faces with wings. Are wings just not enough already to look ascended? Literally only Morg and Kayle have angelic wings🤡 https://youtube.com/shorts/vELXvby51Fc?feature=share
Your not understanding it. All those ones pictured have their faces covered. It is to detach them from being "human". It's not about the body it's the face. That's how we identify other humans. Our brains are made to recognize faces. This is why covering the face of your character makes you less relatable. It's the connection you need to be "human". The only one up there clearly showing a human face is blue and you can see their organs. That's on the line, but still alien enough to be special. It's all about the face bro, not just wings. So when Kayle takes off her helmet to show an normal human face, it grounds her as being human and not something transcendent. Which is the critism. Look at Belveth, she has a human face until she ults, after that she is a monster. Same body, same animations, but once the human head and face is gone, it completely changes what she is to us. I'm totally happy to chat about character design with you, and like I think Skyne has a few misses on his takes, but Kayle isn't really one of them.
Please step down off the stage after this, you did cook something but it kind of turn out to be “hey it should be based on this reference” kinda bullshit and completely not understanding the material, please read this guy comment again and think.
I'll never understand ppl calling her design and armor removing bad, it's literally explained in the simplest way possible why she takes it off (partially): SHE GETS STRONGER, no point for her to wear the armor if her skin is literally a better armor. Hell, isn't that a reason why Pantheon (the most powerful Aspect in Targon before his demise), whether an aspect or the human (Atreus) didn't wear basically any armor? I doubt his old pre-rework look is canon anymore.
80 comments in 12 hours oof My congratulations
Guess im that influential JK
imo neither you or skyen know what you're talking about tbh
I totally agree.
He probably spoke about it from his own idea of a good game design standpoint, I'll have to find his short again and reform my opinion But yeah even before his critique I personally loved how they did her evolution from Archangel+
I just miss her older armor because I think the spandex armor is weird lookin. I like her new wings and sword design a lot though, and her color scheme looks a lot more demacian as well
Source: iFunny.c🤣
I think the aspects and other divine/celestial beings having little armor makes sense...after all, you are(or think you are) perfect all powerful being, you wouldn't need armor for protection and would want mortals to witness your being on its full splendor and not covered in layers and layers of armor...that being said, I just like old Kayle design way more, feel transcended Kayle should be the base new design, but whatever, between pre rework Kayle and new one, I take the old one without question, don't care if she looks like a WoW paladin, she is just way more cooler and her splash art was god like.
Right? It has always seemed pretty obvious to me that as she gets more powerful she needs less armor. And while I kinda get what they mean with armor making someone less approachable, I'd say the concept of wearing armor in battle is very human, it acknowledges that your body is vulnerable and can be hurt.
Wow you actually get it too❤️ like i don't get why some people especially tbskyen dont see it like you do. I thought he was supposed to be the concept/lore/design master🤡
TBSkyen has ruined many things with his takes, influencers who rally people to change things for the worse kills a community.
True!!!!!!!
My issue is why is she sexualized now. When I first picked her up from thought they were a guy for about 3-4 months until I read her lore. This was prerework
Yeah I use to think that too and I like that about her old design really make her feel strong and all ascended being.
Is she? Also if there are weird sexualized crap on kayle, i think thats kinda normal on any champs, even on lillia😭 If you think kayle is sexualized now, you might be baffled by the others😆
Compared to her first two versions she 💯 is
If you enjoy tbskyens content you objectively have an below average IQ and has never formed a single original thought in your life
Armoured Kayle looked cooler than nu-Kayle tbh fr fr on God
Megami Tensei mentioned
in all fairness why do people say kayle is an angel? , shes an aspect? half aspect? that looks like what we believe an angel looks like not an actual angel
Its in her official description. Its just a way of simpler and understandable term used to describe her since saying shes a type of choir, a seraph etc would be tricky to understand, especially to the younger audience or the non christians. Angels are more well known universally, thats why they used that terminology
Yo League and SMT on the same post? I must be dreaming
I feel like you need to calm down a bit. Sure, it's lazy to parrot other viewpoints, but I'm going to lend a hard doubt that Kayle's ascension revealing more of her is some well-crafted thematic breakdown of her character and mythological influences. Prior to her redesign Kayle was very much League's Samus, she had an ambiguous design that didn't really tell you she was female at a glance, and it was clear when they took her armor away that they wanted to ensure people knew she was female, among other things, (Full Plate Melee doesn't scream squishy late game carry). While I don't think that Kayle needs to be portrayed with the cold justice reading that's supported by people like Skyen and Nicki, I also don't think Kayle's base design is all that well done, and barely makes her look less "Generic Angel" than when she was a faceless mob.
Aren’t these all just shadows from Persona?
Bro whoever wrote this has gotten riled up about how NickyBoi and TBSkyen are “brainwashing people into thinking Kayle’s base design is bad”. BRO, they’re called personal opinions and Hot takes for a reason. Don’t see NickyBoi actively saying and hating of Kayle’s design for the fun of it and telling everyone they should hate the base level up design concepts for Kayle. And TBSkyen is someone who actually does hot takes on characters BESIDES KAYLE. He’s said stuff like “Okay, Sett’s design could lean more into his animal nature as being a half-Vastaya” and “Oh, Sylas’s design doesn’t make complete sense since he was in a jail cell and a prisoner of war, his physique doesn’t match the lore of the character”. Heck! Multiple people have made these critiques about Sett and Sylas, and I’m someone who actually agrees with these critiques because I’m a fan of the lore and art of character design. You don’t see SettMains or SylasMains saying stuff like this. But the second someone makes a small biased/personal take about Kayle, you get STRAIGHT TO REDDIT and scream about it to your peers. And I can tell by how many emojis you bloody used that I can tell you were having a blond tantrum about this. Act bloody mature. You’re (possibly) an adolescent or older. Act like one. Quit calling biased opinions brainwashing, ignore them if you’re against them. And yes, circling back to my other point, I like Kayle’s design too, but don’t go ranting about it because you disagree with it!
So they can post whatever they want cuz its their opinion but when i post something to show how Kayle's design direction actually is, cuz their posted narrative regarding her reworked concept is absolutely wrong made me immature and dont deserve to tell my own "hot take"? My hot take is that their way of thinking and how they perceived and approached Kayle's rework design is wrong, and I'm educating the people who have misleading information or started the misinformation. https://preview.redd.it/61kss73itcpc1.png?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0104937523035ab99f4853d4e1907a68ee98e16
And have your opinion but as long as you don’t force it on others, it’s completely valid
Hell, I somewhat agree, I like Kayle’s level up mechanic, and it works well for skin thematics, but yes, I am torn on these thematics with both KayleMains and YouTubers
HAHAHAHA see? "Force into others" now you see my point. What these big creators did is force a narrative to lots of people cuz they have a big audience. do you know how many champ and skin designs TBSkyen has ruined just cuz of his hot takes? Some people actually got brainwashed into thinking that the design of the said champ or skin he has his "opinion" made the viewers not like it too, EVEN WHEN THE AUDIENCE LIKED IT BEFORE HAND! Now thats forcing it to others. They changed how they look at the design just cuz of him. I for one educated them with this post. Did i ever force it?🤡
Bro, if they’re “brainwashed”, their fault. Just ignore them. Like you should be ignoring me
its also not like she is removing clothing in a slutty way like ashe or evelynne.
Her skin is literally being shown in level 16…
She kinda is tho
If the idea is meant to reflect archangels ascending into cherubim, then maybe its translate better (and frankly I think be way cooler) if they made her actually look more like a cherubim? Go a little more biblically accurate angel and less “generic pretty lady” with it.
Well she wouldn't be sellable though. They still have to put into consideration her face value on marketing her skins and as a champ itself
I don’t know, I’d probably be more interested in her that way. But I much prefer monster champs or even just something different than another genetically pretty lady. I’m sort of tired of “most milquetoast woman you’ve ever seen” being the only thing considered “sellable”
I love monster champs too. But thats for the skins, not as her base design. Monster champs do look good and are a fan favourite, but humanoid skins still are more sellable than them. That's why theres lots of lux ez skin in pc and sera & gwen in mobile. A skin though for Kayle where she looks monstrous like the suneater kayle concept is amazing.
I always thought the idea of kayle getting progressively more powerful to the point where her helmet explodes off her head because the power within cannot be contained was cool af.
She looks stupid and I fucking hate it. Her base and ascended form look dumb. End of story
I think the bodysuit thing looks really dumb regardless of whether she should gain/lose armor on lvl up
Yep
Your reasoning is, first of all, incorrect, and second of all, missing the point. To the first point consider that league is oftentimes about combat with non-mortals, including beings that are basically galaxies, realizations of concepts, or just other non-mortals, Kayle would NEED appropriate armor even after ascending. Additionally, you need to realize that as someone is stronger they can wear more armor, so as Kayle ascends, she should wear the armor that she has "unlocked" by ascending. To address what I consider to be the more important point, design takes reasoning to the backfoot in games like league. This means that no matter what reasoning you can come up with, it is more important for a character to look imposing when they should look imposing. Which is what kayle should look like at higher levels, as she ascends. As a rule aesthetic is more important than realism, because games aren't real but the emotions they empart are. I'm not a character designer but a general rule of videogame design is that a feeling of size and weight is incredibly important for conveying power. In the end though this is really silly. Someone saying a character has design flaws isnt enough to get this mad over. TBSkyen is just making videos about his opinion, you can just disagree without getting upset.
She isn’t mortal. Armor is a human construct. Yes, there are powerful beings in the lore but how many of them are fully equipped in heavy armor? It makes more sense that she sheds her armor as she ascends than randomly getting armor from no where. It’s cooler conceptually and the idea itself helps convey her power better than if she had to hide behind more mortal armor while becoming ascended. I’ll agree her design could be touched up upon in certain areas, but the whole argument against her losing her armor is crazy.
Powerful, non-humans do have armor or things like armor in lore. Even if you disagree with that part, it was unimportant anyways. Only made to point out that the "reasoning" given in the post is subjective, and not really the issue to be talked about. You could give any number of reasons for either side and it wouldn't matter.
Yeah, a very few have an overwhelming amount of armor and usually it fits their thematic. Mordekaiser for example is the IRON revenant. Most VERY strong beings in lore don’t really use armor. Not that it matters like you say but it just shows the parallel between armor and power doesn’t exist. Thus nullifying the argument some people have that she should have more armor solely off the idea that she has transcended and became more powerful. Kaylee’s power is conveyed through other means. Becoming bulkier and weightier isn’t the only way to convey power visually.
Im not mad as the design flaw, I'm annoyed at how he manipulated the community into thinking her design concept is the other way around and it made it a flaw when its not. Maybe take a look at this so youll understand my perspective well https://youtube.com/shorts/vELXvby51Fc?si=bjkd3gFe_ZqOrMHf
The other way around? Manipulative? If anything it feels a little "manipulative" to act like TBSkyen's [3 year old video](https://youtube.com/shorts/ch8aIyesIT8?si=LyCZbtei4hhAaBRH) was full of lies mistruths and weird arguments. When you know for sure 90% of people interacting with the post don't even remember it, so you can make it sound as bad as you want and people won't call you out for being ridiculous. He literally spent 5 seconds talking about how her design should make her look less human as she levels, to follow her lore of being less human as she levels, and that removing the armor makes her look more human. Edit: if you are talking about his [30 minute video](https://youtu.be/Hor9qlDoyIY?si=hXpp_gsCtgttPK00), that is even worse as it is 5 years old.
So if its old, it cant be manipulated anymore? I wonder why some people in the community still think kayle design is the other way around. U think they just made that up by themselves? I posted this cuz one of my subscribers said that about her design concept. No one started the "kayle should add more armor" opinion other than TBSkyen. That means his opinion still lives on throughout the years that you stated🙊
Yes I think most people here came to their own decisions and I certainly don't think it is manipulation to make a video with an opinion you dont like.
It's a bit hypocritical of you to say that the critique that Kayle should have more armor as she ascends is bad because she doesn't need armor since she is more godlike as she levels when you point out the inconsistency of her chest armor is necessary because of "muh symbology". Choose one dude, either armor is good because it symbolizes something or she doesn't need it at all for practical purposes. I find it convenient too that BOTH your points suggest kayle to remain showing more of her body when that couldn't be farther from her objective in lore, to separate herself entirely from humanity and judge them ruthlessly from above.
bro nobody cares, it’s a game, go complain yo the devs if it’s so important to you
That is why you do not see legitemately good suggestions on how to fix Kayle because nobody asks. People care and care a lot, that is why they are here, and there exist many, many more places like this one that unite people under the same interest, on reddit and in many other places.
womp womp
If nobody cared, why would there be 200+ upvotes and 300 shares?🤷♂️
bc it’s reddit, people will share everything
The archangel description is just flat out wrong lol. There are plenty more archangels humanity knows by name. No clue what the streamers are saying as I've never watched them, but there is an apparent design flaw - why does an angel, a being if pure magic, have the lowest MR in the game? She should have one of the highest, like how tf does an ordinary soldier like Garen with NO enchanted armor have so much more MR than her?? I mean late game when she's supposed to shine, she is easier for mages to burst down than ANY ADC in the game. Playing her takes far more skill than it should, compared to the many other champs who really have no lore reason to be so strong and easy to win with.
Lmao why r u comparing her stats to her lore😂 mechanics are the last stretch for everyone to reference a character design to the game design. Shes still weak defensively early cuz she is still a mortal. The armor is not really for defense, its to cover up her mortal body. The stats nerf is for people to stop playing kayle in the midlane(riot august, kayle designer once stated)
Don’t let this guy cook up any game mechanics or balance updates lmao.