It originally wasn't going to be an entirely FF7 cast. Yuffie was going to be Rikku, and Aerith was going to be Aya Brea.
Leon ending up in a FF7 group is just what it ended up becoming by happenstance.
Yeah and the book is out of print and really hard to find for cheap. I hope they’ll start printing the book again an maybe Square can make another license agreement.
As someone who owns like 90% of the PE merchandise inclusing the novel, movie, and dolls... you arent missing much by not reading the book. Its fine but very science heavy and Id rec just watching the film instead. Although thats horribly OOP as well so youd have to use other means...
They were talking about Parasite Eve. A lot of people don't realize that Parasite Eve (the game) was an adaptation. The original Parasite Eve was a novel.
On a somewhat related note I am now super curious if Aya Brea and Aerith share a voice actress in Japanese because of the Aya/Aerith swap in Kingdom Hearts.
Interesting. A mish mash definitely would’ve made sense. The fact that it’s so heavily FF7 just makes him feel out of place (even Cid is there lol. Curious as to why Barrett, Red 13 and Vincent didn’t make cut. Maybe B and V were too overtly fun dependent, and they didn’t need another talking dog/animal with Goofy around?)
Vincent got his own game around the time the two first main KH games came out, maybe that has something to do with his absence. That or the fact that he uses a gun, could explain Barrett as well. I have no idea why Red XIII was not there tho he would have been a great fit for the Lion King world
They still censored guns where they could, the enemies in the Pirates of the Caribbean world in KH2 got their guns replaced with crossbows outside of japan. Xigbar's fight also saw some censorship.
FF8 Gunblades can't actually fire projectiles, pulling their Trigger instead increases their force of impact by essentially turning it into a Vibroweapon for a moment.
That's just him using fire magic and using his Gunblade as the medium to cast it. No different than if he were using his finger or just some other random weapon as a comparison like a regular sword. Not the Gunblade itself shooting projectiles.
He still uses the trigger to increase the impact even in KH, iirc.
I remeber reading somewhere that vincents and clouds personality were so similar that they chose to reference vincent in clouds design. So basically vincent is there, he's just an outfit for cloud though .
There were old tales that Vincent was going to be around, but they either couldn’t fit him anywhere or felt he was too spooky.
Either way, that’s why Cloud kinda fused with him in KH1 and wears something similar to his outfit. Can’t speak for the rest of the crew, though.
Barret would have been pretty great as inspiration to save the worlds, though.
Too spooky? The first game is the only one that's actually eerie and dark with some of its mysteries. The tutorial itself ads such a dark mysterious vibe.
Yeah, but that’s a different kind of spooky. Vincent was dark in a more mature way, with his guns and weird creature morphing. The latter would have ended up being hard to explain or just “heartless have infected him!” Or something, y’know? But guns were probably the real reason.
They changed that later on with the pirates in the KH2, but it was just too early for poor Vincent.
For the record, Nomura also wanted to include Vincent but since he couldn't find a way to make him work within the story, he just fused him with Cloud, hence Cloud wearing Vincent's cape and claw and having his broodier personality.
Nomura also wanted to include Tifa as a secret boss in Olympus Coliseum like Sephiroth but she had to be cut because he wanted her to have a more active role with Cloud's story and there was no time to do that.
The reason why they changed it was because Final Fantasy 7 was the most recognizable for Western audience and Final Fantasy 8 was super popular because people thought it was a sequel to seven which is why Leon is with the final fantasy 7 crew. It’s just how it worked out
Yeah this is true but I still feel Barrets gunarm is still a step further. He is also not a Disney character which I’m guessing why the mouse would be less lenient on his use of a firearm.
Apparently this is misinformation that has been spread for years.
There’s a KH1 book with commentary by Nomura. He states Rikku and Yuffie both were originally intended to be in the game. They cut Yuffie’s original role (likely related to time/story constraints) and replaced Rikku’s role instead.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/s/sVXUlMqjnW
I was about to call shenanigans on that because of Nomura famously only wanting to use characters he designed.
In short, TIL Nomura was a character designer on Parasite Eve
I thought it was suppose to be a Tidus, Wakka, and Rikku, since they are all islanders and the swimming party from X, but they didn't want two Rikkus on the same island at the beginning, so it was changed to Selphie.
Honestly it's only the FF8 characters that get treated this way. All the other final fantasy characters are kinda grouped together by their game, but the FF8 characters are spread out between Radiant Garden, Twilight Town, and Destiny Island for no reason
Remember the letter Leon opened in the ending of 2? I really hoped, that it was from Rinoa.
Something about Time Compression and that we see more about the FF characters in 3.
But nope, didn't matter at all.
I was fully expecting Rinoa to show up in KH3 and expand on Leon's story the way Tifa showed up to expand on Clouds story in KH2. Especially since FF8 and KH3 involve time travel!
We can only dream haha
True, but they kinda had to force Nomura’s hand because he was hesitant to include characters he didn’t design.
“[While Nomura was originally reluctant to include Vivi, as he did not design that character, his staff put a lot of pressure on the director to do so, due to the black mage's popularity. Finally, Nomura relented.](https://web.archive.org/web/20070930030420/http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-2005/112705b.html)”
It's because Nomura's original plan was that the Traverse Town gang was gonna be comprised of characters from different Squaresoft titles:
- Squall Leonhart from FFVIII
- Rikku from FFX
- Cid Highwind from FFVII
- Aya Brea from Parasite Eve
However, stuff like Rikku being changed to Yuffie because of the whole "Rikku/Riku" thing and a FFVII staff member suggesting Aerith instead of Aya meant that Leon ended up being amongst FFVII characters.
Because they’re the characters in name and personality only, not the actual characters from their final fantasy’s, same goes for the FFX crew being separated by worlds and completely different ages
It’s been awhile since I’ve played the games. Was there any resolution to the whole changing his name from Squall to Leon? Something about him being on the run?
I don’t remember them ever following up on that
The only actual reason was because at the beginning of the game Mickey writes the letter to Donald and Goofy: "Go find the Keyblade Wielder. Ask Leon and he'll help you." Considering the framing of the scene, seeing Squall instead was supposed to be a big surprise reveal. Makes sense considering this is the first Final Fantasy character you meet. They didn't want to make the scene less impactful, but they still needed Mickey's letter to be introduced before Squall's introduction. Therefore, he has the nickname "Leon", entirely for obfuscating his true identity before the player is given the big reveal of the presence of Final Fantasy characters in this game's narrative.
It's not trying to obfuscate that FF characters are in the game, it's trying to obfuscate that Squall is in the game before he is properly introduced.
Cloud is similarly show to us before he is mentioned and his introduction uses very similar "obscure the face before the full reveal" camera techniques to Squalls introduction.
It's clear as day that Nomura wanted people to do the Leo pointing meme when we first meet those two characters (whereas Tidus, Wakka and Selfie were far less noteworthy at the time)
There's nothing to confuse because each character has a note saying what they're from in the journal (and Yuffie calls him Squall in the cutscene where Sora wakes up, can't miss it).
We not gonna talk about Rikku from 10 being in Hollow Bastion too?
Or Vivi from 9 or Seifer from 8 being in Twilight Town?
Simple answer; he's just there. After his home was destroyed, he got sent to Traverse Town, became friends with Yuffie and Aerieth from 7, and proceeded to go with them to Hollow Bastion. He's just apart of the gang.
Cause he’s like the only cool recognizable square character after seven they could include besides the characters from 10 which were really only there cause the game was popular at the time. If it wasn’t squall it would’ve been someone else, he’s just cool so they included him
It originally wasn't going to be an entirely FF7 cast. Yuffie was going to be Rikku, and Aerith was going to be Aya Brea. Leon ending up in a FF7 group is just what it ended up becoming by happenstance.
Aya from Parasite Eve!?
Yes lol
No fucking way lmao . Ugh I wish they’d hurry up and remake those games
From what I understand they no longer have rights to the IP
A damn shame
Yeah and the book is out of print and really hard to find for cheap. I hope they’ll start printing the book again an maybe Square can make another license agreement.
As someone who owns like 90% of the PE merchandise inclusing the novel, movie, and dolls... you arent missing much by not reading the book. Its fine but very science heavy and Id rec just watching the film instead. Although thats horribly OOP as well so youd have to use other means...
As in the whole game of KH1 because it was during the SquareSoft days or just the rights to use Tarzan from the ERB Estate?
They were talking about Parasite Eve. A lot of people don't realize that Parasite Eve (the game) was an adaptation. The original Parasite Eve was a novel. On a somewhat related note I am now super curious if Aya Brea and Aerith share a voice actress in Japanese because of the Aya/Aerith swap in Kingdom Hearts.
Tbf the movie is a prequel to the games. Aya, Lightning, and Aerith are all the same seiyuu hence all the collabs they had.
Interesting. A mish mash definitely would’ve made sense. The fact that it’s so heavily FF7 just makes him feel out of place (even Cid is there lol. Curious as to why Barrett, Red 13 and Vincent didn’t make cut. Maybe B and V were too overtly fun dependent, and they didn’t need another talking dog/animal with Goofy around?)
KH1 Cloud is basically just Vincent with the claw hand, red cape, and obsession with Sephiroth
I think I remember something saying it was originally supposed to be Vincent you meet in Olympus as well
I did just see a meme saying Cloud is doing a Vincent cosplay at Olympus lol.
The best cloud design ever made, hands down.
He’s more trying to find his way back to Areith in KH1. That’s his end credits scene.
Vincent got his own game around the time the two first main KH games came out, maybe that has something to do with his absence. That or the fact that he uses a gun, could explain Barrett as well. I have no idea why Red XIII was not there tho he would have been a great fit for the Lion King world
> That or the fact that he uses a gun Clayton has a shotgun, though.
They still censored guns where they could, the enemies in the Pirates of the Caribbean world in KH2 got their guns replaced with crossbows outside of japan. Xigbar's fight also saw some censorship.
Doesn’t Leon use a gun too? It’s a gun-blade, but still.
FF8 Gunblades can't actually fire projectiles, pulling their Trigger instead increases their force of impact by essentially turning it into a Vibroweapon for a moment.
and then he shoots fireballs out of it in Kingdom Hearts.
That's just him using fire magic and using his Gunblade as the medium to cast it. No different than if he were using his finger or just some other random weapon as a comparison like a regular sword. Not the Gunblade itself shooting projectiles. He still uses the trigger to increase the impact even in KH, iirc.
He sure does. That's why his Melee Attacks have a small explosion visual effect on hit.
I remeber reading somewhere that vincents and clouds personality were so similar that they chose to reference vincent in clouds design. So basically vincent is there, he's just an outfit for cloud though .
There were old tales that Vincent was going to be around, but they either couldn’t fit him anywhere or felt he was too spooky. Either way, that’s why Cloud kinda fused with him in KH1 and wears something similar to his outfit. Can’t speak for the rest of the crew, though. Barret would have been pretty great as inspiration to save the worlds, though.
Too spooky? The first game is the only one that's actually eerie and dark with some of its mysteries. The tutorial itself ads such a dark mysterious vibe.
Yeah, but that’s a different kind of spooky. Vincent was dark in a more mature way, with his guns and weird creature morphing. The latter would have ended up being hard to explain or just “heartless have infected him!” Or something, y’know? But guns were probably the real reason. They changed that later on with the pirates in the KH2, but it was just too early for poor Vincent.
Red XIII would have been thematically perfect.
Red XIII in KH2 Lion King world would've been awesome
But numerous final fantasy are referenced or included in the game by the second expansion, the gullwings are even in 2!
For the record, Nomura also wanted to include Vincent but since he couldn't find a way to make him work within the story, he just fused him with Cloud, hence Cloud wearing Vincent's cape and claw and having his broodier personality. Nomura also wanted to include Tifa as a secret boss in Olympus Coliseum like Sephiroth but she had to be cut because he wanted her to have a more active role with Cloud's story and there was no time to do that.
The reason why they changed it was because Final Fantasy 7 was the most recognizable for Western audience and Final Fantasy 8 was super popular because people thought it was a sequel to seven which is why Leon is with the final fantasy 7 crew. It’s just how it worked out
I would've loved to see Barrett running around with Sora, Goofy and Donald just "WTF" the whole time.
“The world is dying, Sora!”
Barret has a minigun for a hand which probably crosses a line in a kids game.
i mean they had a guy shoot sora with an elephant gun in kh1
I’m like 80% sure Captain Hook has a gun too
Yeah this is true but I still feel Barrets gunarm is still a step further. He is also not a Disney character which I’m guessing why the mouse would be less lenient on his use of a firearm.
I raise you. Jack straight up shootign Barbosa in the heart in KH2
And yet the generic Pirate Enemies had their Rifles censored into Crossbows.
yeah that was weird, they flashed and cracked like guns too
Disney said no to the man with the gun for a hand
Didn't they change it because Riku and Rikku would be confusing?
Apparently this is misinformation that has been spread for years. There’s a KH1 book with commentary by Nomura. He states Rikku and Yuffie both were originally intended to be in the game. They cut Yuffie’s original role (likely related to time/story constraints) and replaced Rikku’s role instead. https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/s/sVXUlMqjnW
Yep. Though only in English. In Japanese they're spelled and pronounced differently.
Aya would've been interesting to see in a game like this.
It would be way more than interesting
We could've had Aya in Kingdom Hearts?
I was about to call shenanigans on that because of Nomura famously only wanting to use characters he designed. In short, TIL Nomura was a character designer on Parasite Eve
Selphie from 8 is with child Tidus and Wakka tho so it nonsensically fits in that you get a random 8 character in each of the groups
Originally it was going to be Irvine from FF8 in the role that Wakka ended up getting. So had that happened, Tidus would have been the odd one out.
I thought it was suppose to be a Tidus, Wakka, and Rikku, since they are all islanders and the swimming party from X, but they didn't want two Rikkus on the same island at the beginning, so it was changed to Selphie.
Yuffie took Rikku's spot. You can find the concept art and they didn't change the outfit at all, just did a head swap.
Not sure if I ever saw that before. Ya, they literally swapped heads. That is pretty neat.
And then KH2 pulled a Soviet Russia by having Vivi in the FF8 group feat. Setzer.
>I feel like the Destiny island kids were a lowkey promo for FFX which came out around that time. Selphie: And they never suspected a thing
FFX came 1 year before KH1 lol
Honestly it's only the FF8 characters that get treated this way. All the other final fantasy characters are kinda grouped together by their game, but the FF8 characters are spread out between Radiant Garden, Twilight Town, and Destiny Island for no reason
Remember the letter Leon opened in the ending of 2? I really hoped, that it was from Rinoa. Something about Time Compression and that we see more about the FF characters in 3. But nope, didn't matter at all.
I was fully expecting Rinoa to show up in KH3 and expand on Leon's story the way Tifa showed up to expand on Clouds story in KH2. Especially since FF8 and KH3 involve time travel! We can only dream haha
FF8 was just as big as FF7 at the time, he pretty much had to have a starring role because of that.
You could ask the same about selphie being on destiny island and vivi in twilight town. Leon isn't exclusive to this kind of appearance.
You understand that Selfie was not from X right?
I’m surprised no one has said this: all of these characters were designed by Tetsuya Nomura
ViVi and Setzer were deliberately included to show that KH was a celebration of *all* Final Fantasy, not just Nomura.
True, but they kinda had to force Nomura’s hand because he was hesitant to include characters he didn’t design. “[While Nomura was originally reluctant to include Vivi, as he did not design that character, his staff put a lot of pressure on the director to do so, due to the black mage's popularity. Finally, Nomura relented.](https://web.archive.org/web/20070930030420/http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-2005/112705b.html)”
Only Vivi actually. Setzer infact was originally created by Nomura aswell, he just didn't do *every* Character in VI
It's because Nomura's original plan was that the Traverse Town gang was gonna be comprised of characters from different Squaresoft titles: - Squall Leonhart from FFVIII - Rikku from FFX - Cid Highwind from FFVII - Aya Brea from Parasite Eve However, stuff like Rikku being changed to Yuffie because of the whole "Rikku/Riku" thing and a FFVII staff member suggesting Aerith instead of Aya meant that Leon ended up being amongst FFVII characters.
Why is he so much older than Seifer and his gang?
Because they’re the characters in name and personality only, not the actual characters from their final fantasy’s, same goes for the FFX crew being separated by worlds and completely different ages
Also some of them are fairies.
I think it was just a matter of catering to 7s popularity & including other characters as well.
It's Kingdom Hearts, not FF7. The stories here are meant to be different.
Destiny island kids being 2 from ffx and 1 from ffviii
It’s been awhile since I’ve played the games. Was there any resolution to the whole changing his name from Squall to Leon? Something about him being on the run? I don’t remember them ever following up on that
He just felt guilty I guess for not being able to save his world. Nothing more to that. They don’t need to follow up on that
It just feels weird to introduce it and never acknowledge it. Like just call him Squall instead of needlessly confusing the player
The only actual reason was because at the beginning of the game Mickey writes the letter to Donald and Goofy: "Go find the Keyblade Wielder. Ask Leon and he'll help you." Considering the framing of the scene, seeing Squall instead was supposed to be a big surprise reveal. Makes sense considering this is the first Final Fantasy character you meet. They didn't want to make the scene less impactful, but they still needed Mickey's letter to be introduced before Squall's introduction. Therefore, he has the nickname "Leon", entirely for obfuscating his true identity before the player is given the big reveal of the presence of Final Fantasy characters in this game's narrative.
Except that you meet Tidus, Wakka and Selphie on Destiny Islands, well before you get the keyblade and travel to Traverse Town.
It's not trying to obfuscate that FF characters are in the game, it's trying to obfuscate that Squall is in the game before he is properly introduced. Cloud is similarly show to us before he is mentioned and his introduction uses very similar "obscure the face before the full reveal" camera techniques to Squalls introduction. It's clear as day that Nomura wanted people to do the Leo pointing meme when we first meet those two characters (whereas Tidus, Wakka and Selfie were far less noteworthy at the time)
There's nothing to confuse because each character has a note saying what they're from in the journal (and Yuffie calls him Squall in the cutscene where Sora wakes up, can't miss it).
I always wondered if Vincent had been in the colosseum that maybe Cloud would’ve been in Traverse Town.
We not gonna talk about Rikku from 10 being in Hollow Bastion too? Or Vivi from 9 or Seifer from 8 being in Twilight Town? Simple answer; he's just there. After his home was destroyed, he got sent to Traverse Town, became friends with Yuffie and Aerieth from 7, and proceeded to go with them to Hollow Bastion. He's just apart of the gang.
Wtf is Leon? Was it Squall? I've played KH 1 decades ago so I forgot the name, lol.
Squall changes his name to Leon because he’s ashamed of not being able to protect his home. Yuffie still calls him Squall a couple times though
Because Squall Leonhart is a bad ass. Seifer is in KH2 as well
It's because Leon is cool as hell.
Simple answer Squall is cool
Cause he’s like the only cool recognizable square character after seven they could include besides the characters from 10 which were really only there cause the game was popular at the time. If it wasn’t squall it would’ve been someone else, he’s just cool so they included him
Because they are just skins of the FF characters, not the real characters