The work environment is so, SO much better when everybody is excited when it gets busy. It's wild how big of a difference it makes when nobody is getting pissy because of a sudden crowd.
Sure beats the standard "owner and FOH tries to hide the dollar symbols in their eyes while BOH bitches and moans" dynamic during a rush.
We do this in the UK, we are all on the equiv of $14-20/h + tips/service charge evenly shared based on hours worked. Usually works out about $5/h extra.
Represent! 8 years this summer at mine. Our dishie makes more than anyone else actually cuz he does the dishes of two businesses and makes double the tips lol. He fucking deserves it too, dude’s a goddamn machine
I'm glad most people do not agree with you. (Edit: Local) Counter service places are by far the most pleasant places to work in the industry. Good pay from tips + fast service, fun coworkers, and you are never get in the weeds too bad because no matter how long the line gets you are just making food for whoever is in front of you.
No one is ever entitled to a tip. That's the whole fucking problem. Given you're in this sub though I expect you know how shitty it is to rely on tips, thus the attitude you're displaying here makes you seem like a prick.
Oh man I wish you could see how wrong you are. The problem in this country isn't tipping culture, the problem is food culture.
Everybody here expects excellent service, fast turnaround times after ordering, food made exactly to their specific pallets, and as cheap as possible. That combination of factors leads to rising costs for restaurants needing to maintain high staffing levels, multiple ingredients, and specific cooking & storage equipment which greaty increases overhead.
What then follows is a buy-in structure in the multiple thousands if not millions of dollars just to open up shop, let alone the behind the scenes hours that the customer never sees. This alienates many potential mom & pop type owners and leads to market consolidation under owners who treat their employees like shit and don't care about the quality or the industry.
A tip to a small counter serve style joint ensures that people can make a comfortable enough living to survive and enjoy a non toxic place of work. It's not a great system, but our society makes demands that are met with the caveat of tipping. Under your scenario where the restaurant pays people enough to live in this high inflation era, they would have to drastically reduce staff which would reduce quality, speed, and then customers. They would then go out of business. Our margins are tight and this is the reality.
Source: I own a food truck, pay $20/hr +tips and still am barely afloat after 3 years of starting out on my own in this industry. Owners like myself put in 80 hrs a week starting out to ensure you all don't have to learn how to cook for yourselves.
Or… employers can pay livable wages to their entire staff instead of passing the server payroll responsibility onto their customers and taking advantage of their BOH.
I’m UK/Aus, where split tips are *generally* the go, and most people are happy; however, we have a ‘living wage’ here. It means no cunt is dying on their arse and getting $1.67/hr for it.
It becomes a bit more complex on how to split tips if it’s the US system.
And, I get that servers may prefer it and it works out better for them, generally, in the long run, but Jesus fucking Christ should we not look at paying service-based staff an actual wage when they work in the richest country in the world?
Can’t we pay the folk who have, arguably, some of the worst roles to fill?
>It means no cunt is dying on their arse and getting $1.67/hr for it.
Yes but that can't happen in the US either. Employers have to pay at least the state minimum if tips don't cover it. Also not every state has tipped wage credit (most do).
Federal minimum wage in the US is less than $8/hr. Still no where near a living wage. If you live in a place where mining is more than that it’s still not enough to cover rent.
Yes, well that only applies to a few states. The majority have a higher state minimum. And either way I never said it was, just that it is incorrect to claim it's less than that.
>You’re right. It definitely doesn’t work in most countries outside of the US
It works in countries outside the US because the practice isn't established. Think through what I said - in the US, if you start a restauraunt where servers are paid a living wage instead of getting tips, they will go to a restauraunt that does have tips because they make more. That obviously does not apply outside the US, because there is not a tipped restauraunt to go to generally.
This isn’t a problem fixed by a few altruistic owners. It’s widespread legislative reform that incentivizes and mandates owners to pay fairly.
It would almost certainly result in closing of businesses that have preyed on the exploitation of salaried kitchen labor but the great thing about capitalism is that you don’t actually have the right to be in business.
>This isn’t a problem fixed by a few altruistic owners. It’s widespread legislative reform that incentivizes and mandates owners to pay fairly.
Exactly. Thus my issue with the statement:
>employers can pay livable wages to their entire staff instead of passing the server payroll responsibility onto their customers
It clearly implies employers can just choose to pay a living wage instead of allowing tipping when, in the current situation in the US, that isn't feasible.
It doesn't matter how decent a business owner is - they aren't going to stay in business when no one will work for them because they'll make more with tips elsewhere.
>A living wage and tips are not mutually exclusive.
If you're going to be paying servers a living wage, food prices will be much higher. If people think they're expected to tip on top of that, they're going elsewhere.
I have worked places where the porters were tipped, and paid the guys in the pit. It was a complicated mess, involving lots of paperwork to ensure the money went to the right places.
The reason for this dog and pony show, the red tape, the frickin' bureaucracy was godsdamned wage theft.
We had a no dishie crisis for a couple of months and let me it tell you it was HELL, my shifts almost doubled bevause we sucked at doing dishes fast, and we had people running mid service to wash shit so that we could use it.
I remember as an Aussie (no tip culture) I was somewhat irritated once by a customer who did tip me and the server at the same time.
I had cooked the food, ran the food, cleaned the table, and then washed the dishes. Smaller venue. And this customer tipped old mate a 20 and I a 10.
Now I look back and still get annoyed, because the server was easily one of my worst. Like the dude actively had customers leave because of how irritating he'd get.
Long story short, fuckn valuing oneself against the tip is just a fast way to becoming a depressed chef (or dishwasher or whatever the fuck you are in the kitchen, you know who you are). So maybe, just maybe we found the newest fast track to become chef service.
I agree with this. I believe dishwashers deserve more, but at the same time the server is being paid very little, and if the food sucks, the server usually catches the heat from the customer.
But this is less an argument about servers deserving more tips and more an argument that everyone is a step in the process and severs need more base pay so tips can actually be split. A bad week could mean missed rent for anyone.
Worst kitchen injury I ever saw, the drain valve on a deep fryer failed, poured all down the guys leg, pooled in the boots he was wearing. lost two toes, needed grafts. absolute horror show
I'm just straight up about it, cuz I work the showcases, deli, subs, and registers at our pastry shop and then BOH at our restaurant, "I can and do do your job, you can't do mine or you'd be back here. Now go get me a Diet Coke with a splash of ginger ale. I'll be out back getting a nic fix."
I walked three doors down to a doctor's office, waited while the receptionist finished a call, she went and asked a doc and he said go to the hospital. So I stopped next door and bought a coke, then drove myself to the hospital. Good times lol
I was carrying a container of fresh off the stove filled with boiling fake butter and mushrooms/onions/peppers. Our shitty kitchen had saloon doors so when I pushed them open they came back and knocked the container out of my hands. It fell on my right ankle and pooled into my shoe. I ripped off my sock and all the skin came with it. Good thing the servers make 300$ a night thou, right?
Europe here, whilst tipping is dying down and it happens in lower amount and less. All places I've ever known about pool tips and divide it over all employees working that lunch/dinner excluding owner.
I get the pros and cons of tipping. Mostly the high income potential vs shitty base wages. But not sharing tips with the BoH who are IMO 50% responsible for your success is bs.
I'd say BoH is way more than 50% responsible for success of a restaurant. People will put up with bad service is the food is amazing but they won't put up with bad food even if the service is great
Here in the US, I've actually had a GM tell me once BoH can't be included in the tip pool with FoH because they get less than minimum wage per hour in base pay. I know they were bullshiting but trying to convince people BoH should get a portion of the tips here is like pulling fucking teeth. The only place I've ever gotten shared tips was owned/managed by the chef.
Your GM isn't wrong. Unless no tip credit is being taken on any of the employees in the tip pool (i.e. everybody is getting at least regular minimum wage), the pool can't include BOH employees. Thats federal law. If everybody involved is getting at least minimum wage, then the pool can include any of the employees. Keep in mind that some states have their own versions of these laws that change that, but thats how it works on the federal level.
/t former attorney turned chef
Worked at a pizza place with a buffet as a busser/dishwasher. Was slammed so a waitress had helped bring s stack of plates to dish pit, i noticed a 5$ bill in some ranch and mentioned it, waitress said she didnt want it since it was covered in ranch snd i could have it, i took it out washed it and hung it up to dry. Within 30min every waitress in the building was talking about how I stole a tip and it was THEIRS and if soandso didnt want it, it should still go to a waitress...also got directly tipped by a customer, same outcome...apparently i should have accepted the tip and turned around and gave it to front of staff...lol
I mean yes and no. Plenty of people can be servers for all sorts of reasons. Plenty of restaurants will only hire young attractive people as servers also lots of dishies aren't exactly what you would call chatty or personable which are two traits a good server needs. So while technically anyone can become a server plenty of people would fail miserably while succeeding in BOH.
Personally I prefer setups where tips are pooled and split amongst all staff. Obviously helps BOH but also can help FOH over the long term too when a server gets a dead section or gets cut early because of a lack of customers theu can still get a portion of the tip out.
Yeah, I work as a dishie because after 5 years working at Starbucks all my patience and goodwill towards people has been completely wrung out of me like an old rag. While not getting tip money might suck, hearing the horror stories every night from the servers and bartenders is more than enough to keep me in my bog of dishwater and food waste. Fortunately I’m transitioning to working with pastries/desserts.
Plenty of restaurants is not all restaurants and introverted servers do just fine. The most important things as a server are accuracy, effenecy, and knowledge. If you can answer peoples questions and not make mistakes you'll make 25%+ without chatting anyone up.
Serving is competitive, you earn those good sections. After cuts happen you section gets bigger and bigger. If I'm working my ass off to handle 10 tables after the cut I don't want to share that extra money with people who sluff off on 4 table sections. I'm making the restaurant money and want my cut.
edit: I'm actually in the boh again because I gave up drinking around 8 years ago and can't stand dealing with people and alcohol anymore. I was bartending when that happened.
oh well maybe you should just quit blaming the lack of drinking and suck it up. have you tried just sucking it up? using your logic im sure its just as simple as saying it on reddit. thats how things work right??
idiot
Getting all mad and telling me to suck it up is pretty lol. I'm not the one bent out of shape about tipped vs not tips. if you want tips get a tipped position it's that easy. Like I said I work in the kitchen on the line, I've made plenty of tips in the past it's not a big deal.
the dishwasher needs to be in the restaurant. That means the dishwasher needs to be able to survive on their income. It's the same shit ass argument that people use in respect to not wanting to pay fast food workers more, if you believe the service should exist then you need to make sure they don't become homeless from a lack of funds
although it shouldn't come from altruistic owners, it should be regulated by the state.
Still doesn't justify the bullshit difference between foh believing they somehow deserve the tip over boh because they did what? Didn't fuck up taking the order and successfully carried it from kitchen to table?
It’s the job they applied for and were hired for.
This system was in place long before my first restaurant job back in 1987.
Don’t hate the player. Again anyone can work their way to server/bartender/tipped employee.
Bussing tables is a great start.
They make more money for being pretty and sociable instead of doing a difficult or demanding job. I've done FoH and tipped work, it's so easy I added it on top of also preparing all the food myself.
Funny story, that's how most of the world works. People are incredibly shallow and easily manipulated, and the best way to make money is to take it from someone else's labor. The game is bullshit, society is bullshit, we should return to monke ASAP.
You are mad because the tip was kept by the person the giver expected it to go to...
edit: In some states it's actually against the law for the owner of a business to tell the receiver of a tip that they must give the tip away.
shut the fuck up. try getting a tip without a cook cooking the food, try getting a tip without clean fucking plates and and cups.
Servers are not the end all be all of the fucking restaurant and wouldn't be able to do anything without everyone in the BOH, yet on the other hand, without servers who can be replaced by a single order taker, BOH can serve and wash all the dishes.
Lots of servers including you have the worst fucking attitudes about tips and think hey deserve 100% of it even though they do 20% of the work, and act as though they are the reason the restaurant exsists. Get fucked
Did you finish high school?
Did you study hard and get good grades?
Did you go to jr. college or college?
Did you study hard and get good grades?
Have you considered a trade apprenticeship?
Have you thought about moving to FOH?
Can you show a kind personality, professional appearance, and treat rude people with patience ?
If the answer to any of these things is no, well . . .
I tipped the server because their service was good and quick and they made the meal a pleasant experience.
I paid $19 for a cooked streak and $5 for the beer in a clean glass because that's what the product costs. BOH is on the product side, and in my mind that's where BOH money comes from. And doesn't BOH generally have a higher base wage to begin with?
I suppose if BOH gets a share in the tips, you're also proposing BOH take a lower base wage?
Yes to all of them. I have my PC level 2 and can go for my Red seal but I'm never going to cook again because it simply doesn't pay enough .
As for your last comment, I live in Canada, not the third world of USA. Servers and cooks all have the same minimum wage, there is no difference and then on top of that servers usually get all if not 90% of the tips AND even if you bring up the dumb ass thing where you can actually lose money in America if someone doesn't tip, in Canada you CANNOT be paid less then minimum wage. Here in BC it's almost 17$/hr.
So yeah tip out is super unfair here and is a joke. I worked at a golf resort and the servers would come talk to me at the end of the night and cry about only making 300$ that night and how it was slow (plus their hourly wage) and I was making 15$/hr, so 120$ pre tax.
That job is the reason I quit cooking, there was other issues too that most kitchens have, unhealthy environment, shit hours etc etc.
Anyways the point of the whole argument is that servers think they're entitled to 100% of a tip from a meal when they didn't pour the beer, they didn't supply the clean dishes, they didn't prep and cook the food. They're one small cog in a large machine but feel entitled to 100% of it's output
It boggles the mind that the majority of service industry workers know tipping is a scam, they know it’s unfairly disproportionate and they know it’s the only thing stopping employers from paying a living wage. It’s like the crabs in a barrel analogy, only the crabs are fully aware of the situation, fully aware they’re being pitted against each other and yet do it anyway while complaining.
Quit, unionize or accept that you’re taking advantage of your coworkers labor to benefit your employer.
It’s because half the crabs are greatly benefittting from this barrel like they’re on the side of the barrel that has all the cool stuff and drinks it’s like a paradise and then there’s the other half of the crabs that got nothing in their side of the barrel but the only way out of the barrel is if all the crabs work together and half of them don’t want too because if they leave the barrel they won’t have all their cool stuff anymore in their side of paradise barrel and they’ll be equal to the other crabs and they don’t want that
At least half of restaurants in the US would have to close if they had to pay their servers as non-tipped employees. Im not saying thats a good thing nor that that is how it should be, but thats how it is.
other countries also never had this systemic issue. If one restaurant tries to pay their staff properly they are suddenly at a disadvantage compared to every other store in town that doesn't and can utilize the extra money and/or keep a cheaper menu. legislation is the only option
Cost of living is a big issue, its difficult for anything that could be considered a small business to pay employees what could actually be considered a living wage mostly because rent and groceries are so high right now. And thats not even trying to figure in the cost of insurance of any kind lmao.
Nah fam cut a trashbag into an apron and then put a cloth apron over top. You sweat the belly fat out and keep the swamp out. Also vape both kinds of carts in the dish pit + frank sinatra radio on pandora and we vibin.
Literal rotting feet from constant cold, wet conditions. Named that because it was common in trench warfare during cold months. Basically the capillaries in your feet collapse so blood stops circulating properly resulting in the skin and even the muscles of the feet turning into mush.
Not really a thing in kitchens AFAIK since it generally involves keeping wet, cold shoes on for long periods of time, though I'm sure people can get some pretty gnarly stuff going on with their feet as dishies.
I suppose it could be possible in a cold kitchen working 12 hour shifts with too-small shoes to get proper trenchfoot, but it would be extremely rare.
We pooled tips and rotated positions. Everyone got the same cut, everyone kicked ass, everyone worked their hardest to make the best food and drink served with the best service.
It was a great place. I started at the first location to help open it and establish it, last I heard there were 4 locations and going strong.
Give your people a reason to be their best.
Honestly whenever I heat some of the waitstaff complain about tips (even though it's still pretty decent) i.usually just kinda go "yeah well I actually make the food, yet I don't get tips."
They would count their tips and then ask "you wanna come to ?" And I'm like "I got another hour of cleaning to do, I am covered in dishwater and food scraps and hot and sweaty... No I do not"
The worst part is that they don't even know or care how much they're getting. All you get from them is "I have to tip out kitchen and bar..."
They cannot comprehend $150 on a 6 hour shift puts their hourly wage (vastly) ahead of everyone else in the kitchen.
I used to work as a dishwasher when I was in college, in the Netherlands, and tips would be split equally, at the end of the month, between all employees, owners excluded.
keep your voice down..dont want to upset the sensitive little servers. afterall who would carry the food?! who would push the little buttons on the screen?!?
I remember doing a few months front of house in a restaurant before, and on the first day the manager told me how the tips are split between all staff, front and back of house. She then went on to complain how that’s not the way she would do it and she’s argued with the owner to change it (to mainly tip front of house instead of both). Told me all I needed to know about her.
Mad how tip culture works in most countries. Over here in the UK, every restaurant I've worked in split all tips between staff at the end of the week and its split between who worked what shifts.
Get yourself a bar back job and get tipped out! The only thing that made it worth it for me to be a dishy. Once the tips stopped during Covid I was out
Trench foot? The dishies at the place I worked all wore big rubber boots that tucked up into their trousers and under the apron to keep their feet dry.
When I was a dishwasher the worst part was the smell. This smell would get on your hands. It smelled like rotten garbage. It wouldn’t go away no matter what I used and I couldn’t prevent it from happening no matter how much I washed or rinsed my hands. Just rotten garbage when I go home.
This is why dishwashers should be paid more - as much or more as the seasoned line cooks at least.
I always hear chefs say dishwashers are the most important part of the kitchen and yet they’re never paid like it.
This why I got out of the kitchen after 7 years in favor of bartending.
And here in Canada there’s a good chance the server is making more per hour than the dishwasher too, so already ahead of them before the extra $300 they made in tips. Severs where I work make $20 a hour before tips, they’re making more than nurses and doctors it’s crazy lol
Nothing like watching servers break parking policy so they can keep an eye on their new BMW while the cooks had to pile into the one shit box they collectively own and park a mile away from the property.
I must be a "dishie" (New term for me, I kinda like it) for an easy place. Are the floors that bad where others work? Is there not time to keep it from getting bad?
Back when I was still working in a kitchen (havent for a couple years now) we had a tip jar where all the tips would be put into for an entire year.
Usually somewhere in january to february we would split it among all workers based on hours spent at work.
All people got the same rate so it literally was just the amount of hours. And all of the people got their share from the dishies to the chef and even the cleaning personel.
I've never seen another restaurant do it like that but it still makes me feel like it was the most fair of all the ways to split it.
Same here, but soui chef who also does dishes. We just had a wedding at the resort I work at (small, 80 people). The grooms parents tipped the staff; the kitchen saw none of it despite them saying to the head chef that they wanted it to go to all staff members. Wtf....
Every time I would let the bartenders and servers go on and on about how shitty their tips were at the end I would just say what's a tip? Once I became foh I always drop a 20 on the dishwasher, they work in a fn pit yo
Servers should have to pool all their tips and they should be distributed evenly with the rest of the team that worked that night. It’s a team effort and servers don’t deserve the lions share of the tips.
I used work as a pantry chef at a high end chain steak house. The waitstaff would make 100k a year and even though this place paid their back of house employees better than most restaurants it was still a pretty gross disparity between the two.
I have been a dishwasher and a server. Dishwashing sucks. Suuuuuucks.
But nobody ever threw an entire table at me because the ice in their fresh tea melted while I was working the pit, you know?
Nobody screamed at me, degraded me, assaulted me, lied about me to my boss to get free food, or ran up an enormous check and walked on the bill, or tipped a few random coins or nothing at all, causing me to be taxed on an expected tip percentage I never received.
It's the customer service part that you get paid for with the serving.
But the whole restaurant is worth nothing without clean fucking dishes so if you want to go out to eat, don't fucking disrespect dishwashers or dishwashing as a career.
Everyone deserves a living wage.
And tip out your dish. It sucks back there.
Love it when the servers complain about only making $200 a night. I make $200 a week. They really need to share tips. Or they can just let the customers eat out of their hands, because there won’t be any plates, because I said “nope, fuck it, I quit”.
I mean, you can do this about any job. “Sprays dirty plate, puts plate in automatic dishwasher, stacks plates dripping wet, complains about not getting paid more.” See, it’s easy to boil things down in a shitty way.
Can just dry your hands and put a new pair that fit correctly on
Never had a problem with water in my gloves unless I was scrubbing pans and reaching deep in a sink I didn't want to drain lower
Take care of your dishies, they are the krill of the kitchen ecosystem. Without them the whole food chain collapses
I agree. The unfair tipping structure at most restaurants does not.
My fave has always been small, local, counter-service places where tips are split equally and everyone's makin' good money.
I switched to a job like that two years ago and was the best professional decision I've ever made
The work environment is so, SO much better when everybody is excited when it gets busy. It's wild how big of a difference it makes when nobody is getting pissy because of a sudden crowd. Sure beats the standard "owner and FOH tries to hide the dollar symbols in their eyes while BOH bitches and moans" dynamic during a rush.
Spot on, absolutely!
Yeah I'm currently keeping my eye out for something like that again
That's me, I work BOH and get about 3 or 4 hundos a week in tips on top of my check. I work ridiculous hours tho so I get more.
We do this in the UK, we are all on the equiv of $14-20/h + tips/service charge evenly shared based on hours worked. Usually works out about $5/h extra.
Hell yeeeeaaahh get it!
Represent! 8 years this summer at mine. Our dishie makes more than anyone else actually cuz he does the dishes of two businesses and makes double the tips lol. He fucking deserves it too, dude’s a goddamn machine
Counter service = no tip.
Ok
I'm glad most people do not agree with you. (Edit: Local) Counter service places are by far the most pleasant places to work in the industry. Good pay from tips + fast service, fun coworkers, and you are never get in the weeds too bad because no matter how long the line gets you are just making food for whoever is in front of you.
Pleasant place to work doesn’t mean you’re entitled to tips.
I'm not saying I am. But people do tip no matter how you feel about it, and it makes counter service places great places to work.
No one is ever entitled to a tip. That's the whole fucking problem. Given you're in this sub though I expect you know how shitty it is to rely on tips, thus the attitude you're displaying here makes you seem like a prick.
No the problem is the owners not paying a fair wage. Thats isn’t the consumers problem.
Oh man I wish you could see how wrong you are. The problem in this country isn't tipping culture, the problem is food culture. Everybody here expects excellent service, fast turnaround times after ordering, food made exactly to their specific pallets, and as cheap as possible. That combination of factors leads to rising costs for restaurants needing to maintain high staffing levels, multiple ingredients, and specific cooking & storage equipment which greaty increases overhead. What then follows is a buy-in structure in the multiple thousands if not millions of dollars just to open up shop, let alone the behind the scenes hours that the customer never sees. This alienates many potential mom & pop type owners and leads to market consolidation under owners who treat their employees like shit and don't care about the quality or the industry. A tip to a small counter serve style joint ensures that people can make a comfortable enough living to survive and enjoy a non toxic place of work. It's not a great system, but our society makes demands that are met with the caveat of tipping. Under your scenario where the restaurant pays people enough to live in this high inflation era, they would have to drastically reduce staff which would reduce quality, speed, and then customers. They would then go out of business. Our margins are tight and this is the reality. Source: I own a food truck, pay $20/hr +tips and still am barely afloat after 3 years of starting out on my own in this industry. Owners like myself put in 80 hrs a week starting out to ensure you all don't have to learn how to cook for yourselves.
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Do you tip at McDonalds?
Who asked?
Or… employers can pay livable wages to their entire staff instead of passing the server payroll responsibility onto their customers and taking advantage of their BOH.
I’m UK/Aus, where split tips are *generally* the go, and most people are happy; however, we have a ‘living wage’ here. It means no cunt is dying on their arse and getting $1.67/hr for it. It becomes a bit more complex on how to split tips if it’s the US system. And, I get that servers may prefer it and it works out better for them, generally, in the long run, but Jesus fucking Christ should we not look at paying service-based staff an actual wage when they work in the richest country in the world? Can’t we pay the folk who have, arguably, some of the worst roles to fill?
>It means no cunt is dying on their arse and getting $1.67/hr for it. Yes but that can't happen in the US either. Employers have to pay at least the state minimum if tips don't cover it. Also not every state has tipped wage credit (most do).
The fact that they legally have to is one thing, but wage theft is the most common form of theft. Do they actually do it?
Federal minimum wage in the US is less than $8/hr. Still no where near a living wage. If you live in a place where mining is more than that it’s still not enough to cover rent.
Yes, well that only applies to a few states. The majority have a higher state minimum. And either way I never said it was, just that it is incorrect to claim it's less than that.
Except that doesn’t work in practice. Servers aren’t going to work for no tips and a higher wage when they can go elsewhere and make more with tips.
Yeah, people seem to overlook the fact that FOH actively wants this practice to be embedded as deep as possible.
You’re right. It definitely doesn’t work in most countries outside of the US
>You’re right. It definitely doesn’t work in most countries outside of the US It works in countries outside the US because the practice isn't established. Think through what I said - in the US, if you start a restauraunt where servers are paid a living wage instead of getting tips, they will go to a restauraunt that does have tips because they make more. That obviously does not apply outside the US, because there is not a tipped restauraunt to go to generally.
This isn’t a problem fixed by a few altruistic owners. It’s widespread legislative reform that incentivizes and mandates owners to pay fairly. It would almost certainly result in closing of businesses that have preyed on the exploitation of salaried kitchen labor but the great thing about capitalism is that you don’t actually have the right to be in business.
>This isn’t a problem fixed by a few altruistic owners. It’s widespread legislative reform that incentivizes and mandates owners to pay fairly. Exactly. Thus my issue with the statement: >employers can pay livable wages to their entire staff instead of passing the server payroll responsibility onto their customers It clearly implies employers can just choose to pay a living wage instead of allowing tipping when, in the current situation in the US, that isn't feasible. It doesn't matter how decent a business owner is - they aren't going to stay in business when no one will work for them because they'll make more with tips elsewhere.
A living wage and tips are not mutually exclusive.
>A living wage and tips are not mutually exclusive. If you're going to be paying servers a living wage, food prices will be much higher. If people think they're expected to tip on top of that, they're going elsewhere.
Servers would revolt if they ever had to find out what the value of their labor is actually worth.
I have worked places where the porters were tipped, and paid the guys in the pit. It was a complicated mess, involving lots of paperwork to ensure the money went to the right places. The reason for this dog and pony show, the red tape, the frickin' bureaucracy was godsdamned wage theft.
I have decided (literally right this moment) that it's payment for not murdering any of the customers..
Tipping culture in general is toxic
As an ex server, I always felt so guilty about making more money than boh and dishies.. I would buy drinks for them at the bar after the shift
> I would buy drinks for them at the bar after the shift Why not hand them money?
Why not both and smoke em out
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You're not wrong
Not like that dishwasher can't apply to wait tables.
This sub fucking kills me. These are the analogies I’m here for.
We had a no dishie crisis for a couple of months and let me it tell you it was HELL, my shifts almost doubled bevause we sucked at doing dishes fast, and we had people running mid service to wash shit so that we could use it.
Is krill supposed to be a compliment?
Krill are generally the bottom of the ecosystem that provide the base for the bigger creatures.
I remember as an Aussie (no tip culture) I was somewhat irritated once by a customer who did tip me and the server at the same time. I had cooked the food, ran the food, cleaned the table, and then washed the dishes. Smaller venue. And this customer tipped old mate a 20 and I a 10. Now I look back and still get annoyed, because the server was easily one of my worst. Like the dude actively had customers leave because of how irritating he'd get. Long story short, fuckn valuing oneself against the tip is just a fast way to becoming a depressed chef (or dishwasher or whatever the fuck you are in the kitchen, you know who you are). So maybe, just maybe we found the newest fast track to become chef service.
I agree with this. I believe dishwashers deserve more, but at the same time the server is being paid very little, and if the food sucks, the server usually catches the heat from the customer. But this is less an argument about servers deserving more tips and more an argument that everyone is a step in the process and severs need more base pay so tips can actually be split. A bad week could mean missed rent for anyone.
servers deserve *more* tips? jesus at this point it isnt so much a tip as it is a separate invoice.
Do you understand English? "This is less an argument about servers deserving more tips"
You missed my point so hard it felt competitive.
The skin on my arms resembles pork rinds some days from working on the line. I really hate fryers.
Haha my arms still have some "kitchen tats" (fryer burns)
Worst kitchen injury I ever saw, the drain valve on a deep fryer failed, poured all down the guys leg, pooled in the boots he was wearing. lost two toes, needed grafts. absolute horror show
Oof that's brutal. See thats why I don't agree when servers think they work as hard as boh....lots more opportunity for injury back there
I'm just straight up about it, cuz I work the showcases, deli, subs, and registers at our pastry shop and then BOH at our restaurant, "I can and do do your job, you can't do mine or you'd be back here. Now go get me a Diet Coke with a splash of ginger ale. I'll be out back getting a nic fix."
Check my posts and look at my fryer blisters, not as bad but fuck it was gnarly.
Jesus Christ, did you go see a doc for that or did you just let it ride?
I walked three doors down to a doctor's office, waited while the receptionist finished a call, she went and asked a doc and he said go to the hospital. So I stopped next door and bought a coke, then drove myself to the hospital. Good times lol
Yikes man. Glad you got checked out and wound up ok. That’s a serious burn.
I was carrying a container of fresh off the stove filled with boiling fake butter and mushrooms/onions/peppers. Our shitty kitchen had saloon doors so when I pushed them open they came back and knocked the container out of my hands. It fell on my right ankle and pooled into my shoe. I ripped off my sock and all the skin came with it. Good thing the servers make 300$ a night thou, right?
My dishwashers get tips.
I read this as “my dishwater gets tips.” I need more coffee
Half the places I've worked had one dishie. 🤷🏼♂️
It's really not comparable. Just yesterday a server got tipped $400 total. I'll get tipped that after 80 hours of work as a dishwasher
Why do you not have a shared tip pool for everyone? Here they do that because most people tip the kitchen
Europe here, whilst tipping is dying down and it happens in lower amount and less. All places I've ever known about pool tips and divide it over all employees working that lunch/dinner excluding owner. I get the pros and cons of tipping. Mostly the high income potential vs shitty base wages. But not sharing tips with the BoH who are IMO 50% responsible for your success is bs.
I'd say BoH is way more than 50% responsible for success of a restaurant. People will put up with bad service is the food is amazing but they won't put up with bad food even if the service is great
That part. Even if the service is bad, but the food is good they're still gonna get that 20% most of the time.
BoH is like 90% of a restaurants success. FoH barely even or sometimes doesn’t even exist in some place like Japan.
It's becoming more common here for tip pools being a thing. Excluding salary and owners, everyone at my place gets tips.
I would argue BOH is 95% responsible. You have to fuck up heavy nowadays to not get your 20%
Here in the US, I've actually had a GM tell me once BoH can't be included in the tip pool with FoH because they get less than minimum wage per hour in base pay. I know they were bullshiting but trying to convince people BoH should get a portion of the tips here is like pulling fucking teeth. The only place I've ever gotten shared tips was owned/managed by the chef.
Your GM isn't wrong. Unless no tip credit is being taken on any of the employees in the tip pool (i.e. everybody is getting at least regular minimum wage), the pool can't include BOH employees. Thats federal law. If everybody involved is getting at least minimum wage, then the pool can include any of the employees. Keep in mind that some states have their own versions of these laws that change that, but thats how it works on the federal level. /t former attorney turned chef
Old place I used to work for not only gave us at BoH reduced tips but straight up removed them at one point at my time there.
There is no pro to tipping.
Cooks too lmfao I made $19k worth of food yesterday over the course of 10 hours and got paid $180 for it🤣 severs walked away with probably 2x that
I stopped cooking at places that have table service, it's very nice
Total bullshit
nothing like working 14 hours soaking wet and them complaining they only made 400 in 4 hours...
Worked at a pizza place with a buffet as a busser/dishwasher. Was slammed so a waitress had helped bring s stack of plates to dish pit, i noticed a 5$ bill in some ranch and mentioned it, waitress said she didnt want it since it was covered in ranch snd i could have it, i took it out washed it and hung it up to dry. Within 30min every waitress in the building was talking about how I stole a tip and it was THEIRS and if soandso didnt want it, it should still go to a waitress...also got directly tipped by a customer, same outcome...apparently i should have accepted the tip and turned around and gave it to front of staff...lol
Where I work, everybody gets their cut of the tip. Servers, cooks, dishie. Everyone.
Same…. I guess I took it for granted
Lasted less than a week as a dishy. Moved into a career in the custodial arts. From there...well, you don't wanna know.
Is custodial arts where you train on a mountaintop to fight in divorce custody battles?
Damn. I knew I missed that day of training.
I was a dishie once, I saw server cash and wanted it so I became a server. It really is that easy.
I mean yes and no. Plenty of people can be servers for all sorts of reasons. Plenty of restaurants will only hire young attractive people as servers also lots of dishies aren't exactly what you would call chatty or personable which are two traits a good server needs. So while technically anyone can become a server plenty of people would fail miserably while succeeding in BOH. Personally I prefer setups where tips are pooled and split amongst all staff. Obviously helps BOH but also can help FOH over the long term too when a server gets a dead section or gets cut early because of a lack of customers theu can still get a portion of the tip out.
Yeah, I work as a dishie because after 5 years working at Starbucks all my patience and goodwill towards people has been completely wrung out of me like an old rag. While not getting tip money might suck, hearing the horror stories every night from the servers and bartenders is more than enough to keep me in my bog of dishwater and food waste. Fortunately I’m transitioning to working with pastries/desserts.
Plenty of restaurants is not all restaurants and introverted servers do just fine. The most important things as a server are accuracy, effenecy, and knowledge. If you can answer peoples questions and not make mistakes you'll make 25%+ without chatting anyone up. Serving is competitive, you earn those good sections. After cuts happen you section gets bigger and bigger. If I'm working my ass off to handle 10 tables after the cut I don't want to share that extra money with people who sluff off on 4 table sections. I'm making the restaurant money and want my cut. edit: I'm actually in the boh again because I gave up drinking around 8 years ago and can't stand dealing with people and alcohol anymore. I was bartending when that happened.
oh well maybe you should just quit blaming the lack of drinking and suck it up. have you tried just sucking it up? using your logic im sure its just as simple as saying it on reddit. thats how things work right?? idiot
Getting all mad and telling me to suck it up is pretty lol. I'm not the one bent out of shape about tipped vs not tips. if you want tips get a tipped position it's that easy. Like I said I work in the kitchen on the line, I've made plenty of tips in the past it's not a big deal.
the dishwasher needs to be in the restaurant. That means the dishwasher needs to be able to survive on their income. It's the same shit ass argument that people use in respect to not wanting to pay fast food workers more, if you believe the service should exist then you need to make sure they don't become homeless from a lack of funds although it shouldn't come from altruistic owners, it should be regulated by the state.
Still doesn't justify the bullshit difference between foh believing they somehow deserve the tip over boh because they did what? Didn't fuck up taking the order and successfully carried it from kitchen to table?
If serving is that easy nothing is stopping you from doing it. Please give it a shot if that's all you think serving is. Should be a dream job for ya
Serving is literally the easiest job in the entire restaurant, hands down. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.
Then get a real easy job serving and make stupid money if it's the easiest job. If it paid the same I'd never leave boh.
What you just said literally changes nothing I said.
I was a chef, 'server', bartender, dishwasher, all of it. I'm not saying any of it is easy, just don't pretend it's all you.
This is standard kitchen attitude. Hate their jobs and take it out on servers for doing their jobs.
Yeah totally, fucking servers
lucky if servers can even do that. god forbid you scrape a plate or polish your own cutlery.
God forbid the ticket machine makes a noise.
It’s the job they applied for and were hired for. This system was in place long before my first restaurant job back in 1987. Don’t hate the player. Again anyone can work their way to server/bartender/tipped employee. Bussing tables is a great start.
Fucking knew there'd be some sort of don't hate the player hate the game bullshit justification.
You're way too upset about a position making more lmao
They make more money for being pretty and sociable instead of doing a difficult or demanding job. I've done FoH and tipped work, it's so easy I added it on top of also preparing all the food myself. Funny story, that's how most of the world works. People are incredibly shallow and easily manipulated, and the best way to make money is to take it from someone else's labor. The game is bullshit, society is bullshit, we should return to monke ASAP.
The hell wouldn’t they be upset about people getting fucked over for?
Do they not have the same option of being a server?
Everybody can’t be servers. And not everyone can be or has equal opportunity to be a server, no.
Yep, salty as fuck.
You are mad because the tip was kept by the person the giver expected it to go to... edit: In some states it's actually against the law for the owner of a business to tell the receiver of a tip that they must give the tip away.
Sure.
shut the fuck up. try getting a tip without a cook cooking the food, try getting a tip without clean fucking plates and and cups. Servers are not the end all be all of the fucking restaurant and wouldn't be able to do anything without everyone in the BOH, yet on the other hand, without servers who can be replaced by a single order taker, BOH can serve and wash all the dishes. Lots of servers including you have the worst fucking attitudes about tips and think hey deserve 100% of it even though they do 20% of the work, and act as though they are the reason the restaurant exsists. Get fucked
Did you finish high school? Did you study hard and get good grades? Did you go to jr. college or college? Did you study hard and get good grades? Have you considered a trade apprenticeship? Have you thought about moving to FOH? Can you show a kind personality, professional appearance, and treat rude people with patience ? If the answer to any of these things is no, well . . . I tipped the server because their service was good and quick and they made the meal a pleasant experience. I paid $19 for a cooked streak and $5 for the beer in a clean glass because that's what the product costs. BOH is on the product side, and in my mind that's where BOH money comes from. And doesn't BOH generally have a higher base wage to begin with? I suppose if BOH gets a share in the tips, you're also proposing BOH take a lower base wage?
Yes to all of them. I have my PC level 2 and can go for my Red seal but I'm never going to cook again because it simply doesn't pay enough . As for your last comment, I live in Canada, not the third world of USA. Servers and cooks all have the same minimum wage, there is no difference and then on top of that servers usually get all if not 90% of the tips AND even if you bring up the dumb ass thing where you can actually lose money in America if someone doesn't tip, in Canada you CANNOT be paid less then minimum wage. Here in BC it's almost 17$/hr. So yeah tip out is super unfair here and is a joke. I worked at a golf resort and the servers would come talk to me at the end of the night and cry about only making 300$ that night and how it was slow (plus their hourly wage) and I was making 15$/hr, so 120$ pre tax. That job is the reason I quit cooking, there was other issues too that most kitchens have, unhealthy environment, shit hours etc etc. Anyways the point of the whole argument is that servers think they're entitled to 100% of a tip from a meal when they didn't pour the beer, they didn't supply the clean dishes, they didn't prep and cook the food. They're one small cog in a large machine but feel entitled to 100% of it's output
classic server. thinks everything is easy because never had to work hard. we're all very impressed.
If only they paid him a living wage
Every time you pit one worker against another, a manager goes into their office and smiles.
Maytag man is so under appreciated
It boggles the mind that the majority of service industry workers know tipping is a scam, they know it’s unfairly disproportionate and they know it’s the only thing stopping employers from paying a living wage. It’s like the crabs in a barrel analogy, only the crabs are fully aware of the situation, fully aware they’re being pitted against each other and yet do it anyway while complaining. Quit, unionize or accept that you’re taking advantage of your coworkers labor to benefit your employer.
It’s because half the crabs are greatly benefittting from this barrel like they’re on the side of the barrel that has all the cool stuff and drinks it’s like a paradise and then there’s the other half of the crabs that got nothing in their side of the barrel but the only way out of the barrel is if all the crabs work together and half of them don’t want too because if they leave the barrel they won’t have all their cool stuff anymore in their side of paradise barrel and they’ll be equal to the other crabs and they don’t want that
At least half of restaurants in the US would have to close if they had to pay their servers as non-tipped employees. Im not saying thats a good thing nor that that is how it should be, but thats how it is.
Restaurants all around the world can do this no problem with living wages and benefits. It's just greed, either by owners or land-leeches.
other countries also never had this systemic issue. If one restaurant tries to pay their staff properly they are suddenly at a disadvantage compared to every other store in town that doesn't and can utilize the extra money and/or keep a cheaper menu. legislation is the only option
Agreed. Situations like these are the entire point of government.
Cost of living is a big issue, its difficult for anything that could be considered a small business to pay employees what could actually be considered a living wage mostly because rent and groceries are so high right now. And thats not even trying to figure in the cost of insurance of any kind lmao.
Nah fam cut a trashbag into an apron and then put a cloth apron over top. You sweat the belly fat out and keep the swamp out. Also vape both kinds of carts in the dish pit + frank sinatra radio on pandora and we vibin.
What’s trench foot?
Literal rotting feet from constant cold, wet conditions. Named that because it was common in trench warfare during cold months. Basically the capillaries in your feet collapse so blood stops circulating properly resulting in the skin and even the muscles of the feet turning into mush. Not really a thing in kitchens AFAIK since it generally involves keeping wet, cold shoes on for long periods of time, though I'm sure people can get some pretty gnarly stuff going on with their feet as dishies. I suppose it could be possible in a cold kitchen working 12 hour shifts with too-small shoes to get proper trenchfoot, but it would be extremely rare.
We pooled tips and rotated positions. Everyone got the same cut, everyone kicked ass, everyone worked their hardest to make the best food and drink served with the best service. It was a great place. I started at the first location to help open it and establish it, last I heard there were 4 locations and going strong. Give your people a reason to be their best.
Honestly whenever I heat some of the waitstaff complain about tips (even though it's still pretty decent) i.usually just kinda go "yeah well I actually make the food, yet I don't get tips."
They would count their tips and then ask "you wanna come to?" And I'm like "I got another hour of cleaning to do, I am covered in dishwater and food scraps and hot and sweaty... No I do not"
The worst part is that they don't even know or care how much they're getting. All you get from them is "I have to tip out kitchen and bar..."
They cannot comprehend $150 on a 6 hour shift puts their hourly wage (vastly) ahead of everyone else in the kitchen.
I used to work as a dishwasher when I was in college, in the Netherlands, and tips would be split equally, at the end of the month, between all employees, owners excluded.
the end of the MONTH?
You get paid once per month in Europe, yes.
We split tips at my restraunt, but its at the end of the night and it's in cash.
I didn't have fingerprints for a few years when I was a dishwasher.
keep your voice down..dont want to upset the sensitive little servers. afterall who would carry the food?! who would push the little buttons on the screen?!?
I remember doing a few months front of house in a restaurant before, and on the first day the manager told me how the tips are split between all staff, front and back of house. She then went on to complain how that’s not the way she would do it and she’s argued with the owner to change it (to mainly tip front of house instead of both). Told me all I needed to know about her.
Mad how tip culture works in most countries. Over here in the UK, every restaurant I've worked in split all tips between staff at the end of the week and its split between who worked what shifts.
Literally on shift rn as a dishie, slow day so I’m just scrolling Reddit lmao
Get yourself a bar back job and get tipped out! The only thing that made it worth it for me to be a dishy. Once the tips stopped during Covid I was out
Small price to pay to not have to talk to customers
We give our dishwasher 50% of all cash tips at the end of every day. He’s a happy guy.
$10? I only had one server that really tipped me all the places I washed dishes and that was like $5 usually.
My restaurant pooled all tips and everyone got a part. Even the dishie
10 dollars LMAO
Reasons why i always asked foh to share my tips as a chef with the dishie
dishwashing still to this day is one of the hardest jobs I’ve ever had to do.
Trench foot? The dishies at the place I worked all wore big rubber boots that tucked up into their trousers and under the apron to keep their feet dry.
My current place, the servers tip the dishie 5 or 10 dollars each. It's something at least. We pay well I think though too.
Dishies deserve tips and a new pair of fisherman grade waders quarterly
Disherman grade waders
I salute you
I'm so glad I'm out of the industry. I never got past dishie and the places I worked treated us like crap.
When I was a dishwasher the worst part was the smell. This smell would get on your hands. It smelled like rotten garbage. It wouldn’t go away no matter what I used and I couldn’t prevent it from happening no matter how much I washed or rinsed my hands. Just rotten garbage when I go home.
I got 10 tips if I worked a half day, and 20 if I worked a full day…but only on the weekends. Weekdays I got nothin :)
This is why dishwashers should be paid more - as much or more as the seasoned line cooks at least. I always hear chefs say dishwashers are the most important part of the kitchen and yet they’re never paid like it. This why I got out of the kitchen after 7 years in favor of bartending.
Really made me resonate with Steve buscemi’s line “I worked a job that society didn’t deem tip worthy” in reservoir dogs
And here in Canada there’s a good chance the server is making more per hour than the dishwasher too, so already ahead of them before the extra $300 they made in tips. Severs where I work make $20 a hour before tips, they’re making more than nurses and doctors it’s crazy lol
Don't forget the back problems!
Nothing like watching servers break parking policy so they can keep an eye on their new BMW while the cooks had to pile into the one shit box they collectively own and park a mile away from the property.
We used to split tips evenly over the day. As a 13 yo dishwasher without expenses I was making bank compared to the others.
When I was dishie they split up the tips for everyone, was nice
I must be a "dishie" (New term for me, I kinda like it) for an easy place. Are the floors that bad where others work? Is there not time to keep it from getting bad?
Back when I was still working in a kitchen (havent for a couple years now) we had a tip jar where all the tips would be put into for an entire year. Usually somewhere in january to february we would split it among all workers based on hours spent at work. All people got the same rate so it literally was just the amount of hours. And all of the people got their share from the dishies to the chef and even the cleaning personel. I've never seen another restaurant do it like that but it still makes me feel like it was the most fair of all the ways to split it.
Same here, but soui chef who also does dishes. We just had a wedding at the resort I work at (small, 80 people). The grooms parents tipped the staff; the kitchen saw none of it despite them saying to the head chef that they wanted it to go to all staff members. Wtf....
At my resteraunt BOH gets no tips
Every time I would let the bartenders and servers go on and on about how shitty their tips were at the end I would just say what's a tip? Once I became foh I always drop a 20 on the dishwasher, they work in a fn pit yo
Servers should have to pool all their tips and they should be distributed evenly with the rest of the team that worked that night. It’s a team effort and servers don’t deserve the lions share of the tips.
My servers did tip out at least
Tips should be shared with the underground people.
OR, hear me out, the owners could pay him more?
We literally get nothing at my place foh just take it all
I used work as a pantry chef at a high end chain steak house. The waitstaff would make 100k a year and even though this place paid their back of house employees better than most restaurants it was still a pretty gross disparity between the two.
I have been a dishwasher and a server. Dishwashing sucks. Suuuuuucks. But nobody ever threw an entire table at me because the ice in their fresh tea melted while I was working the pit, you know? Nobody screamed at me, degraded me, assaulted me, lied about me to my boss to get free food, or ran up an enormous check and walked on the bill, or tipped a few random coins or nothing at all, causing me to be taxed on an expected tip percentage I never received. It's the customer service part that you get paid for with the serving. But the whole restaurant is worth nothing without clean fucking dishes so if you want to go out to eat, don't fucking disrespect dishwashers or dishwashing as a career. Everyone deserves a living wage. And tip out your dish. It sucks back there.
Love it when the servers complain about only making $200 a night. I make $200 a week. They really need to share tips. Or they can just let the customers eat out of their hands, because there won’t be any plates, because I said “nope, fuck it, I quit”.
*Picks up plate* *Walks over to table* *Puts down plate* *Holds out hand*
I mean, you can do this about any job. “Sprays dirty plate, puts plate in automatic dishwasher, stacks plates dripping wet, complains about not getting paid more.” See, it’s easy to boil things down in a shitty way.
[удалено]
A. Its a joke. B. I never had a dishie that used gloves.
Gloves and an apron go a long way in the dishpit
What about when water gets in the gloves? You gunna tape them around your wrists or something??
Can just dry your hands and put a new pair that fit correctly on Never had a problem with water in my gloves unless I was scrubbing pans and reaching deep in a sink I didn't want to drain lower
And I never didn’t get water in my gloves very quickly.
Dyslexia made me read it as dipshit and it still made perfect sense 🫠
Yes as a dishie I am also a dipshit
Restaurants can survive without waiters if they switch to using tablets to order and bellabots to deliver food. They already do this in Asia.
Dishwasher is the host of back of the house, prep is the busser and line are the servers.