I am gonna go full-on cynical and say that the devs probably didn't have time to whip out a completely new UI/functionality for monos so they just made it part of the crafting system.
Same with the new unique idol, it really makes no sense design-wise, but it is a time saver over having to make new UIs.
I can believe this. For any EHG staff reading this, if this was the case, it might be worth mentioning that this is a placeholder just to hold the community over until you've got time to properly implement it.
The idol taking up a slot means you are making a trade off. Not the end of the world. But there is certainly a "if it works whatevs" feel here. I don't really mind. And having to consume an item for the glyph doesn't seem like a problem really, items with very high N tiers of stats I don't need drop all the time, I think anyway.
A related question was asked on the official discord: “what was the reasoning to put this stability boost on a crafting material as opposed to, say, just a consumable drop?” With the answer: “All the consumable drops do something in a specific place. This was a way we could add this without having to also add in a special alter. Keeps the storage, saving and organization automatic.”
So it sounds like it was the easiest way to implement something for corruption catch-up quickly and efficiently using existing systems. Not necessarily as a fully fleshed out new crafting avenue as well. Maybe one of the devs can give more detail? :)
They could have made it an idol that shatters when you complete an echo to fill the stability gauge, but I guess then it would take stash space to hoard them.
I think the key difference is that they expect you to use the needles immediately, but they expect you to stockpile the glyphs for later (when you roll the alt), and they didn't want you to have to spend stash space on items to speedrun your alts.
Or they implemented the glyph first and then the needle later and didn't have time to rework the glyph for 1.1. I certainly won't be shocked if the glyph gets reworked in a later patch.
Would you rather wait three cycles for, "The Perfect Solution"?
Keep in mind that they could still be working on a better solution in the meanwhile. In a continuously updated game, no solution is permanent.
I agree. I don’t think this is an ideal or a permanent solution. But it at least gives us something until they have time to build in the proper item/consumable/whatever they decide down the road. I would not be surprised if this glyph is removed in a few cycles time and replaced with something else.
I also want more clarification on
>it auto targets the last timeline you ran
What does "ran" mean in this context? Finished an Echo? Or just entered for 1 second and exited?
It's better than nothing, but the endgame really should be account-wide, as it is in PoE. I'm fine with playing the campaign with each and every alt (relatively fine), but after the campaign we should be able to play ALL unlocked content, if the alt is capable of doing it.
Empowered monos should 100% be an account-wide unlock at this point since you can opt out of them on an alt, but corruption does need a bit of a rework before it's changed to be account wide. As it's currently implemented, you'd basically need to run that special echo near spawn to reduce the corruption *globally across all characters*, if your alt cannot handle the current corruption level. If corruption is changed to be account wide, they also need to change it to basically be a slider or something, where you can choose the corruption level between the base corruption (100) and your current account-wide maximum.
Being able to choose the exact corruption level you want with account wide unlock would be optimal and I hope they go for it sooner than later, I'd have kept playing the first cycle for much longer if making alts wasn't such a chore...
Being able to choose the exact corruption level you want with account wide unlock would be optimal and I hope they go for it sooner than later, I'd have kept playing the first cycle for much longer if making alts wasn't such a chore...
I think just porting empowered to be account wide would be doable, I would probably just avoid pushing one or two areas and reduce them as needed.
Mainly I just don’t like getting into Monos and boring myself through them for a while before the exp/loot/difficulty feels meaningful for characters that I already have some gear for.
The craft mechanic is pretty strong to get good rares for your alt, you just need 1 good stat on a rare and then reroll until you find a second one and go from there.
The Stability mechanic was also introduced to get alts to empowered monos much quicker so it seems like a really smart idea to make progress quicker for alts all around.
From the sounds of it youll still have to run all 3 “quests” in each regular timeline which is literally the part thats the most annoying that people hated redoing?
Yeah I get that. Filling stability was pretty fast tho. The quests make you traverse these huge zones doing fetch quests and take like 3-4 times as long tho. And they really arent adding much lore they just feel…bad. I dunno. Once is enough for me!
Yea I was pretty confused as well. The fact that it changes items is fine as you can always use some trash on the ground if you just need it for the monolith but then it seems strange. Maybe they haven't found a way to make runes that can be applied directly to monoliths?
>Maybe they haven't found a way to make runes that can be applied directly to monoliths?
I don't see the mechanic glyph of envy supports needs to be tied to the crafting system (glyphs/runes) at all. It just makes far more intuitive sense for it to be a consumable. You click it, it gives stability to the most recent timeline.
Yes but they don't seem to have items like that (consumables that you can click and use) at all. Potions and all skills come from equipped items not inventory based consumable (unless I am missing something). Keys are used only into dungeon slots etc.
I find it very unlikely that programming an item that increases one integer value (and deleted itself) when you click it would be a massive feat of software engineering.
But to play devil's advocate. They said somewhere (discord?) that they chose the design to avoid using inventory space and having another altar, and imo arrived at a worse solution
Yeah, I originally called it a "bandaid" in the title, but felt that was a little strong.
It does feel like this is what we get while they work on something bigger or adding a new system that addresses the problem.
Glad it's not just me. A glyph for crafting feels like a weird spot to put a catchup mechanic into. Feels like they're doing it due to technical workarounds rather than it being a straight up design decision, but maybe im being unfair.
Tying stability to a glyph is just fried honestly. No reason for it to not just be a consumable that has nothing to do with item crafting. I can't tell if this is just the devs overcooking, or if this is a hack to get around the fact that it would have been harder to create a new type of consumable.
I agree it's weird, but the crafting part is not really anything to worry about though. It rerolls everything except one T1-T4 stat, which is basically useless.
I mean the crafting on an item really isnt that big of a deal. The eaze of crafting a T19+ item or finding a shit item with T6 plus on it and using that as your fodder doesnt really hurt. Plus glyphs are used for crafting purposes so it naturally would make sense for it to be related to crafting in order to be used.
Its secondary purpose is just chaos. Its primarily meant for stability gains with the chance you can turn a stray shit item into something possibly usable. Its not meant to be a “let me craft this and then randomly fuck the affixes” (which to he clear you totally can do if you want). its designed to be a stability increaser with a random gambling aspect so you still get some craft out if it. Its basically a rune of discovery and chaos glyph rolled into one with 1 guaranteed outcome, the upgrade you choose.
1. Both is fine
2. Like you said really not that hard and the tax is negligible with the amount of trash people keep in stashes
3. Its adding stability not corruption. Plus if it is a timeline not completed before it completely fills the stability bar resulting in an ability to fight the boss immediately. I can understand the worry about “the last one you ran” but at the same time if you have these to use you likely understand how they work and will adjust accordingly. So even if you accidentally add stability to the wrong timeline I dont feel it will be much loss unless you were trying to get through them quicker in which case. Oops. Also we dont know how much “a burst” of stability is. Is it 2 monos worth. Is it 6. Is it based on the tiers of the item. Is it based on how much FP it consumes. I feel like its announcement of stability increase was to vague to warrant any worry about it being on the wrong timeline at this moment. Plus again. They are primarily for alts in which case youll know how they work by the time you use one and plan accordingly.
I mean it's a win/win from a design standpoint. They can test if the player base really wants the ability to accelerate stability, without committing to the implementation of a dedicated system.
If, in a game with a loot filter, players don't like paying a "random item tax", then they didn't want it enough. If, on the other hand, the stability "penalty" for re-rolling an item feels too high, then slowness of raising stability isn't as much of an issue as loud voices make it seem.
Frankly, since the Devs intended balance around low-100's rather than 1000+, I'm inclined to think this was a deliberate call of a bluff.
If there are no significant complaints then it's a green light to work on a proper in-game system instead of piggybacking.
This is one of those things that's either completely genius or completely moronic. Not many devs would have probably ever thought to itemize a catch-up mechanic in such a way, so at the very least EHG have small balls to take such a gamble.
how is that a gamble? they just found a way to not mess with ui stuff. Devs do stuff like that all the time for example league of legends where so many abilities are coded as minions.
I agree that it feels like it's in a strange spot right now but I do like that it opens up the crafting system to being able to interact with other game mechanics, I think it might make more sense as a rune because using it as a glyph on a specific slot makes it feel like it's supposed to be a crafting tool but it really doesn't serve that purpose at all, it may as well completely randomize the item imo. There just isn't enough forging potential available to be worth using it to completely randomize all but one affix
I believe that Glyph's other main purpose was so people wouldn't have to do the beginner Monoliths to get to Emp. Monoliths over and over again with Alt's which was the main issue I quit the game.
I think a consumable item with two completely different uses is a good thing as a concept, just maybe not this particular implementation. From my perspective I think the only problem is that the glyph just sounds bad for crafting good items so most dedicated players view it as a useless addition to their stability generating item since the endgame gear goal is all exalteds/legendaries. Feels like the glyph just isn't really worth complaining about, it just also feels not hype worthy.
I think it's great. It does fix the problem it set out to fix and you get to gamble on top of it. It might be a little confusing at first because it's ultimately more text than necessary but there is basically never a real downside to it.
It's weird, but it also kind of makes sense of the context it provides. Sometimes you get an item where it has the affix you want, but *nothing* else. Those items are usually only valuable for shattering, but with this it can have a second chance at becoming something useful. Worst case? You still shatter it.
Yeah, I think the issue here is that it's not the most cleanly communicated setup but once you understand what's going on I'd expect the play patterns to be positive.
I think it's weird too, tbh I just like to play the game for what it is, but now there's some dilution going on with this game already. I thought high corruption wasn't something EHG didn't care about, but now it looks as if this ideal has changed. I don't see how this late game mechanic couldn't be embedded with your rank in the new faction.
There's a difference between high corruption by definition of top players and high corruption in that it's higher than default. It's a very valid problem to have to want to increase it at all being tedious and feeling awful when your character has outpaced the current difficulty by a significant margin.
It's meant for alts to skip/make faster the transition to empowered monos mainly. It's not meant for endgame farming though it can be used for that when you're hunting specific boss drops.
The reroll part is negligible and more likely tied to the glyph in itself, it's a crafting material you have to use in the forge so you need an item to use it on - which is the "i don't know" part. But in the end you're picking a random blue/yellow and reroll everything but the one good stat, so it's not really a good crafting medium.
I actually really like it. I like the rp idea of destabilizing an item to stabilize a timeline, and most of the time that process probably leaves it as junk, but maybe you could accidentally craft a cool weapon with it. Like imbuing it with the properties of chaos itself.
I am gonna go full-on cynical and say that the devs probably didn't have time to whip out a completely new UI/functionality for monos so they just made it part of the crafting system. Same with the new unique idol, it really makes no sense design-wise, but it is a time saver over having to make new UIs.
Yes, like in Cyberpunk when they use missions\quests to buy/sell cars.
In Albion online, all NPC vendors are secretly just crafting stations, and whenever you buy something you technically craft it.
You can either untangle the spaghetti code, or just sprinkle some Parm on top.
I can believe this. For any EHG staff reading this, if this was the case, it might be worth mentioning that this is a placeholder just to hold the community over until you've got time to properly implement it.
The idol taking up a slot means you are making a trade off. Not the end of the world. But there is certainly a "if it works whatevs" feel here. I don't really mind. And having to consume an item for the glyph doesn't seem like a problem really, items with very high N tiers of stats I don't need drop all the time, I think anyway.
A related question was asked on the official discord: “what was the reasoning to put this stability boost on a crafting material as opposed to, say, just a consumable drop?” With the answer: “All the consumable drops do something in a specific place. This was a way we could add this without having to also add in a special alter. Keeps the storage, saving and organization automatic.” So it sounds like it was the easiest way to implement something for corruption catch-up quickly and efficiently using existing systems. Not necessarily as a fully fleshed out new crafting avenue as well. Maybe one of the devs can give more detail? :)
They could have made it an idol that shatters when you complete an echo to fill the stability gauge, but I guess then it would take stash space to hoard them.
They're doing that anyways with that new needle so idk why they couldn't make another one like that.
I think the key difference is that they expect you to use the needles immediately, but they expect you to stockpile the glyphs for later (when you roll the alt), and they didn't want you to have to spend stash space on items to speedrun your alts. Or they implemented the glyph first and then the needle later and didn't have time to rework the glyph for 1.1. I certainly won't be shocked if the glyph gets reworked in a later patch.
[удалено]
Would you rather wait three cycles for, "The Perfect Solution"? Keep in mind that they could still be working on a better solution in the meanwhile. In a continuously updated game, no solution is permanent.
I agree. I don’t think this is an ideal or a permanent solution. But it at least gives us something until they have time to build in the proper item/consumable/whatever they decide down the road. I would not be surprised if this glyph is removed in a few cycles time and replaced with something else.
This should honestly just be a consumable that you can use on alts. The crafting part is odd.
I also want more clarification on >it auto targets the last timeline you ran What does "ran" mean in this context? Finished an Echo? Or just entered for 1 second and exited?
They said the name will be displayed in the crafting screen if that helps
It's better than nothing, but the endgame really should be account-wide, as it is in PoE. I'm fine with playing the campaign with each and every alt (relatively fine), but after the campaign we should be able to play ALL unlocked content, if the alt is capable of doing it.
Empowered monos should 100% be an account-wide unlock at this point since you can opt out of them on an alt, but corruption does need a bit of a rework before it's changed to be account wide. As it's currently implemented, you'd basically need to run that special echo near spawn to reduce the corruption *globally across all characters*, if your alt cannot handle the current corruption level. If corruption is changed to be account wide, they also need to change it to basically be a slider or something, where you can choose the corruption level between the base corruption (100) and your current account-wide maximum.
Being able to choose the exact corruption level you want with account wide unlock would be optimal and I hope they go for it sooner than later, I'd have kept playing the first cycle for much longer if making alts wasn't such a chore...
Being able to choose the exact corruption level you want with account wide unlock would be optimal and I hope they go for it sooner than later, I'd have kept playing the first cycle for much longer if making alts wasn't such a chore...
I think just porting empowered to be account wide would be doable, I would probably just avoid pushing one or two areas and reduce them as needed. Mainly I just don’t like getting into Monos and boring myself through them for a while before the exp/loot/difficulty feels meaningful for characters that I already have some gear for.
The craft mechanic is pretty strong to get good rares for your alt, you just need 1 good stat on a rare and then reroll until you find a second one and go from there. The Stability mechanic was also introduced to get alts to empowered monos much quicker so it seems like a really smart idea to make progress quicker for alts all around.
From the sounds of it youll still have to run all 3 “quests” in each regular timeline which is literally the part thats the most annoying that people hated redoing?
Just three quests are much better than both running maps for stability AND do quests
Yeah I get that. Filling stability was pretty fast tho. The quests make you traverse these huge zones doing fetch quests and take like 3-4 times as long tho. And they really arent adding much lore they just feel…bad. I dunno. Once is enough for me!
Yea tbh, I'd much prefer if it just unlocked the boss for the normal timelines immediately but maybe that's hard to implement, idk.
Yea I was pretty confused as well. The fact that it changes items is fine as you can always use some trash on the ground if you just need it for the monolith but then it seems strange. Maybe they haven't found a way to make runes that can be applied directly to monoliths?
>Maybe they haven't found a way to make runes that can be applied directly to monoliths? I don't see the mechanic glyph of envy supports needs to be tied to the crafting system (glyphs/runes) at all. It just makes far more intuitive sense for it to be a consumable. You click it, it gives stability to the most recent timeline.
Yes but they don't seem to have items like that (consumables that you can click and use) at all. Potions and all skills come from equipped items not inventory based consumable (unless I am missing something). Keys are used only into dungeon slots etc.
I find it very unlikely that programming an item that increases one integer value (and deleted itself) when you click it would be a massive feat of software engineering. But to play devil's advocate. They said somewhere (discord?) that they chose the design to avoid using inventory space and having another altar, and imo arrived at a worse solution
I see, they are also un-tradeable as such but could actually be a good way to keep the economy stable (as alts will always want this).
Yeah, I originally called it a "bandaid" in the title, but felt that was a little strong. It does feel like this is what we get while they work on something bigger or adding a new system that addresses the problem.
Honestly, I don't think it's too strong at all. A bandaid is exactly what it feels like to me.
Glad it's not just me. A glyph for crafting feels like a weird spot to put a catchup mechanic into. Feels like they're doing it due to technical workarounds rather than it being a straight up design decision, but maybe im being unfair.
Great point raised. Was my first thought reading the dev blog on Envy as well.
Tying stability to a glyph is just fried honestly. No reason for it to not just be a consumable that has nothing to do with item crafting. I can't tell if this is just the devs overcooking, or if this is a hack to get around the fact that it would have been harder to create a new type of consumable.
Same exact feeling I had. It feel overly complicated for no reason.
I agree it's weird, but the crafting part is not really anything to worry about though. It rerolls everything except one T1-T4 stat, which is basically useless.
I mean the crafting on an item really isnt that big of a deal. The eaze of crafting a T19+ item or finding a shit item with T6 plus on it and using that as your fodder doesnt really hurt. Plus glyphs are used for crafting purposes so it naturally would make sense for it to be related to crafting in order to be used. Its secondary purpose is just chaos. Its primarily meant for stability gains with the chance you can turn a stray shit item into something possibly usable. Its not meant to be a “let me craft this and then randomly fuck the affixes” (which to he clear you totally can do if you want). its designed to be a stability increaser with a random gambling aspect so you still get some craft out if it. Its basically a rune of discovery and chaos glyph rolled into one with 1 guaranteed outcome, the upgrade you choose. 1. Both is fine 2. Like you said really not that hard and the tax is negligible with the amount of trash people keep in stashes 3. Its adding stability not corruption. Plus if it is a timeline not completed before it completely fills the stability bar resulting in an ability to fight the boss immediately. I can understand the worry about “the last one you ran” but at the same time if you have these to use you likely understand how they work and will adjust accordingly. So even if you accidentally add stability to the wrong timeline I dont feel it will be much loss unless you were trying to get through them quicker in which case. Oops. Also we dont know how much “a burst” of stability is. Is it 2 monos worth. Is it 6. Is it based on the tiers of the item. Is it based on how much FP it consumes. I feel like its announcement of stability increase was to vague to warrant any worry about it being on the wrong timeline at this moment. Plus again. They are primarily for alts in which case youll know how they work by the time you use one and plan accordingly.
I mean it's a win/win from a design standpoint. They can test if the player base really wants the ability to accelerate stability, without committing to the implementation of a dedicated system. If, in a game with a loot filter, players don't like paying a "random item tax", then they didn't want it enough. If, on the other hand, the stability "penalty" for re-rolling an item feels too high, then slowness of raising stability isn't as much of an issue as loud voices make it seem. Frankly, since the Devs intended balance around low-100's rather than 1000+, I'm inclined to think this was a deliberate call of a bluff. If there are no significant complaints then it's a green light to work on a proper in-game system instead of piggybacking.
This is one of those things that's either completely genius or completely moronic. Not many devs would have probably ever thought to itemize a catch-up mechanic in such a way, so at the very least EHG have small balls to take such a gamble.
how is that a gamble? they just found a way to not mess with ui stuff. Devs do stuff like that all the time for example league of legends where so many abilities are coded as minions.
I agree that it feels like it's in a strange spot right now but I do like that it opens up the crafting system to being able to interact with other game mechanics, I think it might make more sense as a rune because using it as a glyph on a specific slot makes it feel like it's supposed to be a crafting tool but it really doesn't serve that purpose at all, it may as well completely randomize the item imo. There just isn't enough forging potential available to be worth using it to completely randomize all but one affix
It is little weird but probably fastest way to do it. It’s a bit of chaos orb that randomizes everything. I kind of like it tbh.
Yeah I think it's kinda weird too, like I gotta go buy a random item off the vendor or allow shit look through filter to use lol!
I believe that Glyph's other main purpose was so people wouldn't have to do the beginner Monoliths to get to Emp. Monoliths over and over again with Alt's which was the main issue I quit the game.
I think a consumable item with two completely different uses is a good thing as a concept, just maybe not this particular implementation. From my perspective I think the only problem is that the glyph just sounds bad for crafting good items so most dedicated players view it as a useless addition to their stability generating item since the endgame gear goal is all exalteds/legendaries. Feels like the glyph just isn't really worth complaining about, it just also feels not hype worthy.
And this is good for yellows only, as any purple rerolled in this way turns yellow anyway. So what's the point, if you only equip purples and uniques?
It's goofy. Anyone defending it isn't being rational.
I think it's great. It does fix the problem it set out to fix and you get to gamble on top of it. It might be a little confusing at first because it's ultimately more text than necessary but there is basically never a real downside to it.
It's weird, but it also kind of makes sense of the context it provides. Sometimes you get an item where it has the affix you want, but *nothing* else. Those items are usually only valuable for shattering, but with this it can have a second chance at becoming something useful. Worst case? You still shatter it.
Yeah, I think the issue here is that it's not the most cleanly communicated setup but once you understand what's going on I'd expect the play patterns to be positive.
I think it's weird too, tbh I just like to play the game for what it is, but now there's some dilution going on with this game already. I thought high corruption wasn't something EHG didn't care about, but now it looks as if this ideal has changed. I don't see how this late game mechanic couldn't be embedded with your rank in the new faction.
There's a difference between high corruption by definition of top players and high corruption in that it's higher than default. It's a very valid problem to have to want to increase it at all being tedious and feeling awful when your character has outpaced the current difficulty by a significant margin.
It's meant for alts to skip/make faster the transition to empowered monos mainly. It's not meant for endgame farming though it can be used for that when you're hunting specific boss drops. The reroll part is negligible and more likely tied to the glyph in itself, it's a crafting material you have to use in the forge so you need an item to use it on - which is the "i don't know" part. But in the end you're picking a random blue/yellow and reroll everything but the one good stat, so it's not really a good crafting medium.
I actually really like it. I like the rp idea of destabilizing an item to stabilize a timeline, and most of the time that process probably leaves it as junk, but maybe you could accidentally craft a cool weapon with it. Like imbuing it with the properties of chaos itself.