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Sooooo, Europe ultimately decided a few years ago that terrorists can’t lose their last nationality since it would make them ‘stateless’ and that would be a administrative headache that would also somehow take fundamentals human rights from them.
Yet Germany is now doing it for the sweet Gaza oil ? Can the world not fuck up for a *day* ?
So not even counting them as Israeli?
So it’s either not Israelis land, in which case whose fucking land is it? Or Israeli is limiting citizenship based on ethnicity or religion.
Even fucking Russia gave the people of Crimea Russia citizenship because morality and law aside that is what happens when you annex somewhere.
Making them take Israeli citizenship would still be bullshit but any other option is at best expulsion and at worst ethnic cleansing.
But then they would have to deal with a lot of Israeli citizens talking openly against Israel in German soil. Being stateless strip them of any political power.
Putin sees Ukrainians as fellow Russians, and is baffled to see 'his slavic' people not wanting to live under his authority. And hence that use of miiitary means to 'unite' the Ukranian borderlands into his Russian empire. Russian minorities in Crimea/Donbass/Ukraine, NATO buffer, Azov neo-nazis, banderites, are all just excuses. Putin is imperialistic, not racist - and hence the generous grants of Russian citizenship to Crimeans/Donbassians.
Similarly, China's Xi Jingping fixation on Taiwan is also imperialistic, not racist. When Xi thinks of taking over Hong Kong or Taiwan, he doesn't desire their lands but wants the people to live as Chinese citizens under his leadership.
But that is not the case with Israel. Israel and its founding ideaology of zionism seek to create a jewish racial ethno-state in the biblical boundaries of a mythical promised land. They want the land, and not the people.
Japan's crimes were against non-western, non-Europeans and hence don't garner as much attention. It's the same with Britain's crimes in India, Belgium's in the Congo, Germany's in Namibia, etc etc. In the Indian subcontinent, among those who are historically aware, Churchill and Hitler are two sides of the same genocidal coin.
Those numbers generally pale in comparison to say the Rape of Nanking where the IJA did things like have a competition on who could bayonet the most babies out of the air and other truly fucked up atrocities
I'm Australian and Japanese have a pass as far as I'm concerned.
America cut off their trade pre world war 2 and antagonised them with economic warfare.
I can't speak about the atrocities they committed in China. That was fucked up. Nor their treatment of our red Cross medics who were targeted on the battlefield. Nor the treatment of our P.O.W's.
..
But getting nuked twice was absolutely unnecessary and a warcrime. Don't know anyone from my generation and younger who has beef with Japan. Boomer and X's have some but they hate everyone.
The nukes wiped the slates clean as far as I am concerned as each side did horrible things
..
Really it's all about the whaling now. That shit can fuck off.
I mean, a substantial part of that is because generally the Japanese don’t feel any war crime guilt. Who knows what they might’ve done if they actually taught their people anything about the full extent of what their country and their grandparents/great-grandparents did.
I mean, they had to learn it from somewhere right? And who better than the country that rebuilt yours in their own capitalist image?
If denying war crimes was cigarettes then the USA absolutely sat there and watched Japan smoke a whole carton knowing full well who they learned it from.
The US let the Japanese government off the hook because Japan made a good anti communist base in East Asia, if the Soviets had made it to Japan’s mainland they would have had a seat at the table and more than likely Japan would have been given the Germany treatment if only because Mao and Sek who the Soviets at the time were generally friendly towards would have insisted on it
Japan–Palestine relations are the relations between Japan and the Palestinian National Authority. Although the two countries have friendly relations, Japan does not recognize Palestine as a sovereign state but as the Palestinian National Authority.
Germany does not recognize Palestine diplomatically (See: International recognition of the State of Palestine). However, Germany has a Representation Office in Ramallah, while there is also a Palestinian Mission in Berlin.
Both from Wikipedia
It's funny that you mention LGBT cause they can freely live in Germany (Same-sex marriage has been legal since 1 October 2017) and Israel (Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender rights in Israel are considered the most developed in the Middle East) but were brutally murdered in Gaza (Homosexuality in the Palestinian territories is considered a taboo subject; lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people experience persecution and violence.). At least try to stick to the truth.
You’re missing the truth I’m saying. **I** was referring to Germany and the Nazis, *you* are pivoting to Palestine and attempting to justify their genocide.
35,000+ people have been killed in Gaza by Israel in the last six months. Of those killed, a percentage the same as anywhere else in the world (roughly 3-10%) have been LGBT.
There doing a shit job of hunting anything. They were Pushed out of Gaza during their ground offensive and pushed out of northern isreal because they can’t beat hezb . They only catch civilian woman and children and murder them
I like how Germany are the ones responsible for the Holocaust but they attempt to punish Palestinians in 2024 for it. If anyone's nationhood and identity should be unrecognised, it's Germany.
Noam Chomsky actually asked why wasn't Israel carved out of the Swiss Alps or some other European location in his book "The Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel and the Palestinians" (highly recommend it).
why switzerland though? it would make more sense to take a large country like germany and carve out an israel sized piece from there. current israel is more than half the size of switzerland and it is like 3/4 of what used to be palestine. whereas it would only be less than 1/10th of germany. wheres the logic?
yes its easier to split up smaller countries by force but im saying for chomskys argument its illogical because hopefully he wasnt advocating for forcing switzerland to split (but idk)
edit: and large parts of the alps arent really inhabitable anyway
Well why should people in a different country thousands of kilometres away pay for the sins of Germans? Palestinians were kicked out of their homes because white people on a different continent killed Jews. Make it make sense???
Also, according to your logic, the historical reasons and justification for Israel existing as a Jewish homeland are irrelevant too.
… why should the descendants of people who had abso-fuckly nothing to do with it be made to pay for it?
The only reason Israel is where it is was because the European Governments didn’t want to actually do anything about the displaced victims so decided to steal land from a bunch of brown people because that has been their “go to” move since the start.
Oh, and because religious fundamentalists believe this will kick off the war that will bring Jesus Christ back…
This has already been reversed by the university director as they "misinterpreted" the guidelines. This has nothing to do with Germany. The university just fucked up. Otherwise, you would be hearing from a lot more cases, not just Magdeburg.
You can rest your nonsensical "Germany never changed" spam.
Yeah, I was skeptical right away. I live in Germany and my partner is German, and he keeps really up to date with the news. I don't think this would have just gone under so unnoticed here. Everywhere has its problems, and within that, some things are worse than others. I really don't appreciate the broad painting of Germany as some genocide happy nation. The "Germany never changed" stuff is pretty insulting.
It's entirely nonsensical and deeply ignorant of Germany - Palestine relations considering Germany is the largest aid donor to Palestine (second only to the EU and guess who carries the largest share of the EU budget) AND has been working with even Abbas to legitimize Palestine on the world stage. Most of these clowns don't know about the Munich massacre or the Black September Organization yet immediately confirmation bias everything Germany- related out of their mind.
Germany has all the reasons they need to not help Palestine, yet they still do. Remnants of the Black September Organization are still very active within the PLO and Fatah. Many members of PLO leadership openly deny or denied the holocaust yet they still choose to work with them and invite them to summits over and over again DESPITE Israel warning them not to. (Which, like Abbas last visit with Scholz, hasn't always ended favourably)
Also ofc. no one mentions that Baerbock went to Israel 2 weeks ago and got into trouble with Netanyahu because she was calling out his bullshit that everything is fine in Gaza with "Are you saying that our doctors in the field in Gaza aren't telling the truth? Are you saying that the international media is lying?" and he supposedly went a bit off the rails after that.
Germany has:
- [Cracked down on all pro Palestinian protests](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/germany-palestine-protest/)
- [Increased funding for Israeli weapons and fastracked their sale](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-military-exports-israel-up-nearly-10-fold-berlin-fast-tracks-permits-2023-11-08/)
- [Voluntarily intervened on behalf of Israel during South Africa's ICJ case on Israel violating the Genocide Convention.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-says-will-intervene-at-the-hague-on-israels-behalf-blasts-genocide-charge/) They have offered nothing new in terms of evidence, just a resounding "nuh uh" in the face of overwhelming video evidence of intent.
- Gotten to the point where politicians are so rabidly anti Palestinian that they say things like [this](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/27/german-minister-says-she-was-only-applauding-israeli-filmmaker-at-berlinale).
- [Cancelled award ceremonies for Palestinians who have won any sort of recognition in the arts.](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/books/frankfurt-book-fair-cancels-award-adania-shibli.html)
- [Arrested and blacklisted Jewish people who speak out against the situation in Israel](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/germany-crackdown-israel-gaza-jewish-activist)
This is why is gets the flak it gets. They're at the point of camping out in people's meeting places and [shutting off zoom conferences about Palestine](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/12/germany-cancels-pro-palestine-event-bars-entry-to-gaza-war-witness). I hope you can see why people might not be looking too favourably at the German state right now.
Ok, people, I know the german government is acting against the preservation of human rights. But please dont act like germans are supporing Israel because they have some inherent taste for murder. If you think of yourself as immune to the systems of control that make people act against human nature, then you are going to lose the ability to recognize them when they try to take control of you. I would go as far as to say that this false presumption is part of the reason why many germans are unable to reevaluate their position on Israel.
Finally, someone who understands. Jesus Christ this sub is reductive and edgy to a childish degree sometimes. For all those, „give me a source to read up on this super niche topic“ there are as much „country no oppose X, country loves X“
Germany is simply trying to stay away from their problematic past by overcorrecting and supporting Israel (I.e. the Jews) no matter what. Same thing btw with Germany‘s relationship to the US, it’s also a remnant from the past WWII and later the occupation.
Even the news here are way too Israel friendly more so than in any other place even more than in the USA. There is a great podcast unfortunately in German, where they compare the news reports between countries whenever it’s about Israel. Germany is the worst basically just amplifying IDF propaganda. But it’s not because there is a bloodlust for genocide. That’s the most regarded edgy teenager take there is. It’s because any different reaction will look bad for Germany NOT supporting Israel.
I partially agree. I agree that propaganda plays a huge role in the common stance of supporting Israel, but I dont think anyone is doing this because it would look bad otherwise. I see it as more common that people support the genocide because they believe the propaganda that tells them that it doesn't exist, and if it does, then its justified. The reason why they believe it is ideological self-preservation.
I think you're being a bit too generous here.
The vast majority of the motivation is a western power acting on their own geopolitical interests. Unfortunately there are also plenty who view Arabs as lower in the modern day racial hierarchy than Jews.
An element of the blind support for Israel's genocide is overcorrection because of holocaust guilt but they don't deserve credit for that. Helping your previous victims prey on new ones is deranged shit, no matter how it's dressed up.
To clarify, the state of Israel is responsible for their actions. None of this reflects on Jewish people as a whole, many of whom are principled anti-genocide and anti-zionist campaigners.
There's been a deliberate attempt from some Zionists to muddy the waters between Jewish identity and support for Israel so that somehow criticism of Israel is anti-semitic?
Buddy, saying a country loves to do genocide and that’s why they are supporting Israel is simply moronic.
The German population is divided on the Israel issue. German politics is largely in favor of Israel due to many reasons you and me already laid out. It’s the whole schtick of supporting your allies even if they are wrong. But as I laid out the propaganda here in Germany is in parts even stronger than in other Israel allied states, at least in the sense of suppressing information or a bias towards Israel. Even though the support here is less extreme, there is basically no support for a one state solution.
having lived in germany as an immigrant for enough years, in my personal lived anecdotal experience, it is a deeply racist society. and it makes sense to me that a deeply racist society would be doing genocidal things. i have been called more slurs in germany than anywhere else on the planet.
Funny, I’m an immigrant living in Germany pretty much my whole life and I’ve experienced racism only once from a person of east germany (place notorious for far right and racism). So much for anecdotes. You can try to convince yourself that people in Germany are genocidal because of whatever? Like why would they be, lol? Genetics? Germany is a cultural melting pot by today‘s standards. And except for politicians at the top there is almost no one that blindly supports Israel.
Geopolitically we are unfortunately allies so there is a reason for the bias. And then there is germanys past as another very strong bias. If you don’t live in Germany and you don’t understand the reality of that past there is no way of understanding that bias. If you are a progressive or leftist you will be criticized and called an antisemite as soon as you comment anything critical of Israel. You will have to firstly declare that you support Israel as a state and that it has a right to defend itself and yada yada yada. If you don’t everyone will come at you and say that you should resign/get out of politics because Germany has no place for antisemitism as it has led to genocide before. It’s ridiculous.
So yeah, even just calling for more careful warfare in Gaza (lol, stupid right? Humane warfare) you will be put on blast asking whether you are against Israel and that you are facilitating antisemitic violence in Germany.
But tell yourselves whatever you want. Germany is in its core a pacifist country. Geopolitical relations may force the politicians hands (some of them do it out of conviction, but they aren’t very popular).
>germany is in its core a pacifist country
thats where we disagree i guess. and yes i lived in saxony. i had a skinhead try to beat me inside a hospital for speaking greek on the phone (we were both hospitalized).
i have not witnessed this pacifism you speak of. passive aggression until total aggression is socially acceptable.
We’ll see, you have seen ONE part of Germany and are trying to say it’s all of it. Read up on it a little and you will see you lived in a special place.
But hey think whatever you want, I’m just going to correct you whenever you comment as if your truth is a universal truth. You should actually do some research before writing stuff a universal truths though. Germany IS pacifist, just look at how it has to build up its military basically from scratch now after the Ukraine war started, look at how small Germanys engagements in foreign conflicts have been, and so on.
Germany has been involved in this genocide happening right now though. So it’s not innocent. But it’s not involved out of a bloodlust as this post is wrongfully and stupidly claiming.
no im just bringing up the most egregious thing that happened to me in germany. west germany is outwardly less violent, but in my opinion it is just a matter of time. and btw i am white and have a c2 in german.
i can bring up like at least a dozen racist incidents off the top of my head, and fee of them happened outside saxony.
many marginalized folks have had very similar experiences to mine, something that gets brought up frequently, at least in my circles.
how many individual incidents need to happen until you concede social problems?
Brother, I’m not saying there are no racists in Germany. I say that it is not worse than anywhere else. And I also say, that because some people are racists that doesn’t mean that the country is genocidal. Quite simple actually.
Germany didn't learn anything from genocide that it had committed. I thought when they're fiercly against anti-semitism, it meant fiercly against gross human rights violation and genocide. Nope, it just they are very afraid of someone saying that they are anti-Semite. that's all.
Its genuinely bewildering how Germany has somehow been on the wrong side of history, *always*.
Block Roman expansion in favor of their backwards barbarian tribal shit.
Migrate into the Empire and usher in the Dark Ages.
Creating a fake Roman Empire that has mucked things up across both Germany and Italy.
Prussian militarism wiping out regional flavors of Germany.
WW1
WW2, and all it implies
Slowly turning the whole of Europe against the EU project.
All jokes and irony aside, its shocking. You can *always* count on Germany to somehow fuck things up.
Germany's bloodlust for genocide. Turns out they've been quietly keeping their genocidal tendencies under wraps since their defeat in WWII, and it's coming out again right now.
So... what I see is a difference between citizens who are against genocide, and non-conforming immigrants who are bringing their battles abroad.
Are we just throwing them in the same bucket?
Germany literally makes it illegal to speak out against genocide. It’s on the books I think
EDIT: I stand corrected they make it illegal to mention the holocaust
Edit 2: nvm false alarm, they made it illegal to deny the holocaust.
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Sooooo, Europe ultimately decided a few years ago that terrorists can’t lose their last nationality since it would make them ‘stateless’ and that would be a administrative headache that would also somehow take fundamentals human rights from them. Yet Germany is now doing it for the sweet Gaza oil ? Can the world not fuck up for a *day* ?
I'd like to apologize for my hypocritical shitbag government. Sincerely, german citizen.
So not even counting them as Israeli? So it’s either not Israelis land, in which case whose fucking land is it? Or Israeli is limiting citizenship based on ethnicity or religion. Even fucking Russia gave the people of Crimea Russia citizenship because morality and law aside that is what happens when you annex somewhere. Making them take Israeli citizenship would still be bullshit but any other option is at best expulsion and at worst ethnic cleansing.
But then they would have to deal with a lot of Israeli citizens talking openly against Israel in German soil. Being stateless strip them of any political power.
Putin sees Ukrainians as fellow Russians, and is baffled to see 'his slavic' people not wanting to live under his authority. And hence that use of miiitary means to 'unite' the Ukranian borderlands into his Russian empire. Russian minorities in Crimea/Donbass/Ukraine, NATO buffer, Azov neo-nazis, banderites, are all just excuses. Putin is imperialistic, not racist - and hence the generous grants of Russian citizenship to Crimeans/Donbassians. Similarly, China's Xi Jingping fixation on Taiwan is also imperialistic, not racist. When Xi thinks of taking over Hong Kong or Taiwan, he doesn't desire their lands but wants the people to live as Chinese citizens under his leadership. But that is not the case with Israel. Israel and its founding ideaology of zionism seek to create a jewish racial ethno-state in the biblical boundaries of a mythical promised land. They want the land, and not the people.
Ironically, for all their denial on their war crimes, Japan is doing better than Germany in many regards
Japan's crimes were against non-western, non-Europeans and hence don't garner as much attention. It's the same with Britain's crimes in India, Belgium's in the Congo, Germany's in Namibia, etc etc. In the Indian subcontinent, among those who are historically aware, Churchill and Hitler are two sides of the same genocidal coin.
Really? So the estimated 12,500 British and 7,500 Australians killed by the Japanese in recognised war crimes don’t count?
How is "not being paid attention to" the same as "not counting"?
“Japan’s crimes were against non-western, non-Europeans”. That’s what I was referring to.
Those numbers generally pale in comparison to say the Rape of Nanking where the IJA did things like have a competition on who could bayonet the most babies out of the air and other truly fucked up atrocities
Apparently not, as Japan got away with it all.
I think they were talking about the other 30 million people you ignored because they weren’t western/russian
I'm Australian and Japanese have a pass as far as I'm concerned. America cut off their trade pre world war 2 and antagonised them with economic warfare. I can't speak about the atrocities they committed in China. That was fucked up. Nor their treatment of our red Cross medics who were targeted on the battlefield. Nor the treatment of our P.O.W's. .. But getting nuked twice was absolutely unnecessary and a warcrime. Don't know anyone from my generation and younger who has beef with Japan. Boomer and X's have some but they hate everyone. The nukes wiped the slates clean as far as I am concerned as each side did horrible things .. Really it's all about the whaling now. That shit can fuck off.
Yep at least Japan doesn't use another random country and people as a proxy to redirect all of their war crime guilt.
I mean, a substantial part of that is because generally the Japanese don’t feel any war crime guilt. Who knows what they might’ve done if they actually taught their people anything about the full extent of what their country and their grandparents/great-grandparents did.
Funnily enough, the same could be said for the USA
I mean, they had to learn it from somewhere right? And who better than the country that rebuilt yours in their own capitalist image? If denying war crimes was cigarettes then the USA absolutely sat there and watched Japan smoke a whole carton knowing full well who they learned it from.
Well after having two nukes dropped on your civilians I think the US should sit this one out
The US let the Japanese government off the hook because Japan made a good anti communist base in East Asia, if the Soviets had made it to Japan’s mainland they would have had a seat at the table and more than likely Japan would have been given the Germany treatment if only because Mao and Sek who the Soviets at the time were generally friendly towards would have insisted on it
Japan–Palestine relations are the relations between Japan and the Palestinian National Authority. Although the two countries have friendly relations, Japan does not recognize Palestine as a sovereign state but as the Palestinian National Authority. Germany does not recognize Palestine diplomatically (See: International recognition of the State of Palestine). However, Germany has a Representation Office in Ramallah, while there is also a Palestinian Mission in Berlin. Both from Wikipedia
It's their justification: if Palestinians don't exist as a people, there's noone to erase
Just like they did the last time with Jews, Romani, and LGBT 😒
It's funny that you mention LGBT cause they can freely live in Germany (Same-sex marriage has been legal since 1 October 2017) and Israel (Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender rights in Israel are considered the most developed in the Middle East) but were brutally murdered in Gaza (Homosexuality in the Palestinian territories is considered a taboo subject; lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people experience persecution and violence.). At least try to stick to the truth.
You’re missing the truth I’m saying. **I** was referring to Germany and the Nazis, *you* are pivoting to Palestine and attempting to justify their genocide.
Do you not realize that LGBT Palestinians are being indiscriminately murdered en masse by the Israeli government right now?
[удалено]
35,000+ people have been killed in Gaza by Israel in the last six months. Of those killed, a percentage the same as anywhere else in the world (roughly 3-10%) have been LGBT.
[удалено]
There doing a shit job of hunting anything. They were Pushed out of Gaza during their ground offensive and pushed out of northern isreal because they can’t beat hezb . They only catch civilian woman and children and murder them
I like how Germany are the ones responsible for the Holocaust but they attempt to punish Palestinians in 2024 for it. If anyone's nationhood and identity should be unrecognised, it's Germany.
Israel should have been carved out of Germany
Noam Chomsky actually asked why wasn't Israel carved out of the Swiss Alps or some other European location in his book "The Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel and the Palestinians" (highly recommend it).
why switzerland though? it would make more sense to take a large country like germany and carve out an israel sized piece from there. current israel is more than half the size of switzerland and it is like 3/4 of what used to be palestine. whereas it would only be less than 1/10th of germany. wheres the logic? yes its easier to split up smaller countries by force but im saying for chomskys argument its illogical because hopefully he wasnt advocating for forcing switzerland to split (but idk) edit: and large parts of the alps arent really inhabitable anyway
Well I can’t imagine they’d wanna stick around near Germany after WW2 tbf
WW3 speedrun
I wonder how the world would be today if isreal was taken from European axis powers like Germany.
Carve Israel out of Germany instead of Palestine. Seems much fairer, plus the Israelis will be somewhere they’re actually indigenous too
>Carve Israel out of China instead of Palestine. Seems much fairer, plus the Israelis will be somewhere they’re actually indigenous too Umm what?
That was meant to say Germany 😂 No clue how I ended up writing China and didn’t notice. Brain not braining right.
🤣
Break it up into its 16 states as unique polities. While you’re at it, do that to the rest of the world
Most of the people that did it aren’t alive anymore. Why should you be held accountable for what your ancestors did?
Well why should people in a different country thousands of kilometres away pay for the sins of Germans? Palestinians were kicked out of their homes because white people on a different continent killed Jews. Make it make sense??? Also, according to your logic, the historical reasons and justification for Israel existing as a Jewish homeland are irrelevant too.
… why should the descendants of people who had abso-fuckly nothing to do with it be made to pay for it? The only reason Israel is where it is was because the European Governments didn’t want to actually do anything about the displaced victims so decided to steal land from a bunch of brown people because that has been their “go to” move since the start. Oh, and because religious fundamentalists believe this will kick off the war that will bring Jesus Christ back…
Old habits die hard
They are reeeeeeaaaaaally trying to avoid being called anti semites now a days.
Which is really hard actually with Israel calling literally everyone that for the slightest thing.
Its interesting that they left their email like that open to the public. Surely no one would bombard their inbox with very "useful" things.
My thoughts exactly
It's more useful than what any of those idiots are doing
This is fucking unhinged
So does that mean those students are going to be kicked out?
No
Not yet.
This has already been reversed by the university director as they "misinterpreted" the guidelines. This has nothing to do with Germany. The university just fucked up. Otherwise, you would be hearing from a lot more cases, not just Magdeburg. You can rest your nonsensical "Germany never changed" spam.
Every day Germany sinks lower in the news
This should be all the way on top
Yeah, I was skeptical right away. I live in Germany and my partner is German, and he keeps really up to date with the news. I don't think this would have just gone under so unnoticed here. Everywhere has its problems, and within that, some things are worse than others. I really don't appreciate the broad painting of Germany as some genocide happy nation. The "Germany never changed" stuff is pretty insulting.
It's entirely nonsensical and deeply ignorant of Germany - Palestine relations considering Germany is the largest aid donor to Palestine (second only to the EU and guess who carries the largest share of the EU budget) AND has been working with even Abbas to legitimize Palestine on the world stage. Most of these clowns don't know about the Munich massacre or the Black September Organization yet immediately confirmation bias everything Germany- related out of their mind. Germany has all the reasons they need to not help Palestine, yet they still do. Remnants of the Black September Organization are still very active within the PLO and Fatah. Many members of PLO leadership openly deny or denied the holocaust yet they still choose to work with them and invite them to summits over and over again DESPITE Israel warning them not to. (Which, like Abbas last visit with Scholz, hasn't always ended favourably) Also ofc. no one mentions that Baerbock went to Israel 2 weeks ago and got into trouble with Netanyahu because she was calling out his bullshit that everything is fine in Gaza with "Are you saying that our doctors in the field in Gaza aren't telling the truth? Are you saying that the international media is lying?" and he supposedly went a bit off the rails after that.
Germany has: - [Cracked down on all pro Palestinian protests](https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/germany-palestine-protest/) - [Increased funding for Israeli weapons and fastracked their sale](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-military-exports-israel-up-nearly-10-fold-berlin-fast-tracks-permits-2023-11-08/) - [Voluntarily intervened on behalf of Israel during South Africa's ICJ case on Israel violating the Genocide Convention.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-says-will-intervene-at-the-hague-on-israels-behalf-blasts-genocide-charge/) They have offered nothing new in terms of evidence, just a resounding "nuh uh" in the face of overwhelming video evidence of intent. - Gotten to the point where politicians are so rabidly anti Palestinian that they say things like [this](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/27/german-minister-says-she-was-only-applauding-israeli-filmmaker-at-berlinale). - [Cancelled award ceremonies for Palestinians who have won any sort of recognition in the arts.](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/books/frankfurt-book-fair-cancels-award-adania-shibli.html) - [Arrested and blacklisted Jewish people who speak out against the situation in Israel](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/germany-crackdown-israel-gaza-jewish-activist) This is why is gets the flak it gets. They're at the point of camping out in people's meeting places and [shutting off zoom conferences about Palestine](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/12/germany-cancels-pro-palestine-event-bars-entry-to-gaza-war-witness). I hope you can see why people might not be looking too favourably at the German state right now.
https://www.bmz.de/en/news/press-releases/germany-45-million-euro-in-new-contributions-to-unrwa-206388 And they send more money to fund Hamas tunnels.
Thanks, I really needed to read this. Gives me a lot of hope
Ok, people, I know the german government is acting against the preservation of human rights. But please dont act like germans are supporing Israel because they have some inherent taste for murder. If you think of yourself as immune to the systems of control that make people act against human nature, then you are going to lose the ability to recognize them when they try to take control of you. I would go as far as to say that this false presumption is part of the reason why many germans are unable to reevaluate their position on Israel.
Finally, someone who understands. Jesus Christ this sub is reductive and edgy to a childish degree sometimes. For all those, „give me a source to read up on this super niche topic“ there are as much „country no oppose X, country loves X“ Germany is simply trying to stay away from their problematic past by overcorrecting and supporting Israel (I.e. the Jews) no matter what. Same thing btw with Germany‘s relationship to the US, it’s also a remnant from the past WWII and later the occupation. Even the news here are way too Israel friendly more so than in any other place even more than in the USA. There is a great podcast unfortunately in German, where they compare the news reports between countries whenever it’s about Israel. Germany is the worst basically just amplifying IDF propaganda. But it’s not because there is a bloodlust for genocide. That’s the most regarded edgy teenager take there is. It’s because any different reaction will look bad for Germany NOT supporting Israel.
I partially agree. I agree that propaganda plays a huge role in the common stance of supporting Israel, but I dont think anyone is doing this because it would look bad otherwise. I see it as more common that people support the genocide because they believe the propaganda that tells them that it doesn't exist, and if it does, then its justified. The reason why they believe it is ideological self-preservation.
I think you're being a bit too generous here. The vast majority of the motivation is a western power acting on their own geopolitical interests. Unfortunately there are also plenty who view Arabs as lower in the modern day racial hierarchy than Jews. An element of the blind support for Israel's genocide is overcorrection because of holocaust guilt but they don't deserve credit for that. Helping your previous victims prey on new ones is deranged shit, no matter how it's dressed up. To clarify, the state of Israel is responsible for their actions. None of this reflects on Jewish people as a whole, many of whom are principled anti-genocide and anti-zionist campaigners. There's been a deliberate attempt from some Zionists to muddy the waters between Jewish identity and support for Israel so that somehow criticism of Israel is anti-semitic?
Buddy, saying a country loves to do genocide and that’s why they are supporting Israel is simply moronic. The German population is divided on the Israel issue. German politics is largely in favor of Israel due to many reasons you and me already laid out. It’s the whole schtick of supporting your allies even if they are wrong. But as I laid out the propaganda here in Germany is in parts even stronger than in other Israel allied states, at least in the sense of suppressing information or a bias towards Israel. Even though the support here is less extreme, there is basically no support for a one state solution.
having lived in germany as an immigrant for enough years, in my personal lived anecdotal experience, it is a deeply racist society. and it makes sense to me that a deeply racist society would be doing genocidal things. i have been called more slurs in germany than anywhere else on the planet.
Funny, I’m an immigrant living in Germany pretty much my whole life and I’ve experienced racism only once from a person of east germany (place notorious for far right and racism). So much for anecdotes. You can try to convince yourself that people in Germany are genocidal because of whatever? Like why would they be, lol? Genetics? Germany is a cultural melting pot by today‘s standards. And except for politicians at the top there is almost no one that blindly supports Israel. Geopolitically we are unfortunately allies so there is a reason for the bias. And then there is germanys past as another very strong bias. If you don’t live in Germany and you don’t understand the reality of that past there is no way of understanding that bias. If you are a progressive or leftist you will be criticized and called an antisemite as soon as you comment anything critical of Israel. You will have to firstly declare that you support Israel as a state and that it has a right to defend itself and yada yada yada. If you don’t everyone will come at you and say that you should resign/get out of politics because Germany has no place for antisemitism as it has led to genocide before. It’s ridiculous. So yeah, even just calling for more careful warfare in Gaza (lol, stupid right? Humane warfare) you will be put on blast asking whether you are against Israel and that you are facilitating antisemitic violence in Germany. But tell yourselves whatever you want. Germany is in its core a pacifist country. Geopolitical relations may force the politicians hands (some of them do it out of conviction, but they aren’t very popular).
>germany is in its core a pacifist country thats where we disagree i guess. and yes i lived in saxony. i had a skinhead try to beat me inside a hospital for speaking greek on the phone (we were both hospitalized). i have not witnessed this pacifism you speak of. passive aggression until total aggression is socially acceptable.
We’ll see, you have seen ONE part of Germany and are trying to say it’s all of it. Read up on it a little and you will see you lived in a special place. But hey think whatever you want, I’m just going to correct you whenever you comment as if your truth is a universal truth. You should actually do some research before writing stuff a universal truths though. Germany IS pacifist, just look at how it has to build up its military basically from scratch now after the Ukraine war started, look at how small Germanys engagements in foreign conflicts have been, and so on. Germany has been involved in this genocide happening right now though. So it’s not innocent. But it’s not involved out of a bloodlust as this post is wrongfully and stupidly claiming.
no im just bringing up the most egregious thing that happened to me in germany. west germany is outwardly less violent, but in my opinion it is just a matter of time. and btw i am white and have a c2 in german. i can bring up like at least a dozen racist incidents off the top of my head, and fee of them happened outside saxony. many marginalized folks have had very similar experiences to mine, something that gets brought up frequently, at least in my circles. how many individual incidents need to happen until you concede social problems?
Brother, I’m not saying there are no racists in Germany. I say that it is not worse than anywhere else. And I also say, that because some people are racists that doesn’t mean that the country is genocidal. Quite simple actually.
Germany didn't learn anything from genocide that it had committed. I thought when they're fiercly against anti-semitism, it meant fiercly against gross human rights violation and genocide. Nope, it just they are very afraid of someone saying that they are anti-Semite. that's all.
Its genuinely bewildering how Germany has somehow been on the wrong side of history, *always*. Block Roman expansion in favor of their backwards barbarian tribal shit. Migrate into the Empire and usher in the Dark Ages. Creating a fake Roman Empire that has mucked things up across both Germany and Italy. Prussian militarism wiping out regional flavors of Germany. WW1 WW2, and all it implies Slowly turning the whole of Europe against the EU project. All jokes and irony aside, its shocking. You can *always* count on Germany to somehow fuck things up.
As a German, i have the same opinion, and it saddens me
Germany's bloodlust for genocide. Turns out they've been quietly keeping their genocidal tendencies under wraps since their defeat in WWII, and it's coming out again right now.
Erasure...
Standing with their cultural tradition of supporting genocide.
Germany collectin data like that again?🚨🚨🚨🚨
Here we go again. This is why history is so important to learn and analyze. The same stupid shit is happening all over again.
Can't let the people of Palestine live free but will let the isis supporter to parade I guess?! By the way I am a Muslim myself.
So... what I see is a difference between citizens who are against genocide, and non-conforming immigrants who are bringing their battles abroad. Are we just throwing them in the same bucket?
I am deeply ashamed of my nation
Germany literally makes it illegal to speak out against genocide. It’s on the books I think EDIT: I stand corrected they make it illegal to mention the holocaust Edit 2: nvm false alarm, they made it illegal to deny the holocaust.
Illegal to deny their holocaust, not future ones they take part in, clearly 😒
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Congrats you were a fool twice in a row and you had a chance to google in between. Gen z I'm guessing.
They admitted their mistake and didn't delete it. Don't be a dickhead.