Have you reached out to special ed attorneys? [https://www.copaa.org](https://www.copaa.org) There is a massive shortage of attorneys and advocates to represent families in disputes with school Districts.
I have had quite a few IDEA clients. It’s damned hard to get fees from the district denying the student their FAPE. In my experience the only time fees are paid is after a federal court win.
I want to downvote the districts for that. What a waste of taxpayer resources since the fees after a federal court win would be giant! There are some states where it’s very common to get fees as part of a settlement, in part because a district can pay $5-$10k in fees at mediation. I would definitely recommend connecting with COPAA attorneys in your state as there is strength in numbers.
You can also work for non-profit organizations that represent the IDEA child and their parents. The pay isn't what most people desire, but it's a good start and good work.
I’m going to second this suggestion, we have a huge shortage in my area because literally everyone who does these cases is trying to retire and there isn’t a new generation taking them. You also don’t even need to be a lawyer to just be an advocate at 504/IEP meetings, so if you don’t feel comfortable taking due process cases/suing schools yet, give that a try first. (I’m restricted by my employer to advocacy-only for education cases, and have to pass my clients on to a legal partner if they want to file due process. I’m usually successful in resolving the issues at the table rather than having to send them along to other counsel.)
This is absolutely the answer. If there’s no PD office there they’ll usually pay pretty well for the work. And if there is- ask to be put on the list for when the PD’s office is recused.
But don’t be a f***ing schmuck. Take CLEs, watch trials, and get involved in the local and state criminal defense associations. People deserve competent representation. I’ve seen way too many of these small town contract attorneys be absolutely worthless.
That 2nd paragraph is why I only practice in 1 area and don't take on work in others. I'm a one trick pony. If I tried to screw around in an unrelated area of law, I'd be committing malpractice.
Usually there are RFPs posted on state or county government websites. You'd want to use Google-fu to search for criminal/defense/attorney/contract/position/yadda yadda. Alternatively, contact DA offices and see if they can hook you up. For example, while in law school I talked to a couple of local attorneys and the judge in the cowtown I lived in, and they were desperate. The local attorneys were getting up in years, and the judge said the local judges were looking to go to the state law school to stump for new attorneys to come down and practice, since they were worried about having to get attorneys from nearby cities 1-2 hours away.
Just keep pushing. Find your neighbor, friends, law school folks, etc. and tell them that you want to work legally. You won't make a lot of money to start. And ageism is definitely real, so you just have to keep going.
Someone will take you and then you build from there.
Also get active in the Local Bar associations. Let folks see you, write newsletter articles, moderate CLE panels, etc.
Good Luck!
You got this. And do not be discouraged by silence or rejection. You gotta keep going! You will be successful!
And I am not going to gaslight you about ageism, sexism, racism, or any other ism or phobia, if you sense it you are probably right, and you keep going.
Same boat, brother. I'm mid-40s and graduated in 2010, then left the profession in 2014 to go back to supply chain (my pre-laws school career) because we were going to move to different states every 18-24 months for several years for my wife's career. I'm back in the state I'm barred in, I got my license back and have been struggling to find work. I did lots of 'legal adjacent' work, negotiating and drafting customer and supplier contracts, writing corporate policy documents, etc. But, no traction at all so far.
Same. I missed a semester of law school, went back, graduated, and have paid the NY bar for ten years, while living out of state for a decade now, not practicing law. Hoping to get into remote legal work some how...
Op, I know a guy in your age. He was doing foreclosure for a foreclosure mill for a few years and then quit to be a financial advisor. He was not doing very well at the financial advisor gig so he was asked to leave. Because he is out of legal world for a while, he has to work for legal aid and become appearance attorney for legal aid on eviction/basic litigation.
I guess you can try low pay gig like legal aid or public defender first, but I would go Legal Aid etc to do more work involving real estate as real estate maybe more lucrative and less stressful than criminal defense if you decides to open your own practice.
GAL work - there is always a need for guardian ad litems in my state. You do the training and get on the registry and take appointments from there. Pays not great but good way to get back into things.
Try working with startups or small businesses...
It kills me every time a lawyer quotes us $300-800 an hour
Sometimes they don't need a top shelf attorney, just someone who has been to law school.
Lots of compliance stuff needs proper lawyers, the tech peeps are missing a lot of details.
What worked for me is doing document review. I worked at a document review company. It gave me a crash course in many areas of law and it is low/no stress. If you are reliable and do a decent job, you will easily be promoted to QC, Team Lead or Review Manager
I am now a staff attorney, doing doc review at a large firm. The partner on my first case liked my work, so I work exclusively for her. I think my age and prior document review has been an advantage because I have more real world/life experience than many recent law grads and document review has provided a rudimentary understanding of many industries and areas of law. I was recently offered an associate position at my firm. I don't think I would ever be invited to interview if I applied directly for an associate position, given my age and lack of experience. I think getting your foot in the door and then proving yourself is the way to go for people like us.
Another path is doing document review at a consulting firm. I have a friend that works for one of the Big 4 and was recently recruited from within to work in another area of the firm, unrelated to document review. She said there is plenty of room for advancement.
BTW, most document review and many staff attorney jobs are totally remote, although you can usually work at the office if you'd like.
If you are interested in trying document review, I suggest you sign up for The Posse List. It is a legal job listserv that most document review recruiters use. [https://www.theposselist.com/how-to-subscribe-to-our-job-lists/](https://www.theposselist.com/how-to-subscribe-to-our-job-lists/)
It depends, but usually the only requirement is to be licensed. Some projects do require experience in a certain area of law or undergrad study. Some projects only require a JD and no license.
None. It's crushingly boring work, but it pays the bills. Straight English first-pass doc review pays $25-30/hour, with steady downward pressure on that rate. Foreign language doc review is where it's at. Spanish is the lowest paid, at $45-50/hour. Scandinavian languages and Dutch are currently $80-90/hour, full-time work as long as the project lasts. Japanese is north of $100/hour. I know one attorney, total degenerate, who somehow learned Indonesian. He's got lots of project work in that language for $90/hour.
There are tons of insurance defense firms that give zero hoots about your age or experience level. If you can read and summarize depo transcripts, medical records, discovery responses and fill out insurance company’s reporting templates you are golden.
Use your law school’s job board, get on LinkedIn, indeed, use the job boards for your state bar. Set up google searches. Network like a fucking maniac. Contact law school classmates, look for events through your state bar, specialty bars and orgs, and just go and talk to people. Ask the people you know to introduce you to people.
I’ve been working as an attorney for 17 years. Took me a year and a half, 350+ job applications, and countless networking events to find my current position, and that was looking in major urban markets, I’m not sure where you’re looking.
Use your life experience to set yourself apart. A lot of places would disregard your resume bc of lack of legal experience but for the right place it would really make you stand out. You just have to turn over every rock trying to find that place though.
It’s harsh and disheartening, but if you really just keep trying and get creative you’ll find something.
If you don't have relevant work experience and you graduated a long time ago, maybe try for some paralegal jobs? Pro: it will give you some experience and allow you to make some connections. Con: employers may think you're just using them.
I happen to agree with this. The issue is having zero experience with paperless practice, apps, etc. A firm where I worked tried this but she was clueless about how to use required software. It was her lack of practical skills, not the law, that were the problem. Getting a year in as a legal assistant or paralegal should get someone up to speed if they care about what they're doing.
Do you have any friends that are lawyers? Ask if you can “rent space” from them and take the cases they don’t want. Get on the indigent defense panel also. You aren’t gonna instantly start making good money of solo but after a year or so you should have a decent base.
I highly recommend Legal Aid. I learned family law, consumer law, landlord / tenant, and estate planning. I wasn’t a master of any of it, but after a year I knew infinitely more than I did when I started. And local firms and gov offices wanted to hire me because I had made a good impression. I am almost two decades in now and still appreciative for the start I got there.
Bonus: the only thank you letters I have ever received as an attorney came from Legal Aid clients.
Why would you assume state agencies aren't picky? LOL. Government employees just like the private sector tend to hire who they know or someone "already in the system". That said, try contacting a few alums in your area already working for the government and ask if they would be willing to meet you for an "informational interview". Ask them for any advice on "getting your foot in the door". Join the government lawyers section in your state and try to attend their meetings. You can sometimes find a low paying part time government job and then go from there. Also the child support offices are always hiring due to high turnover.
[удалено]
Without a license OP you cannot seek work as an attorney.
I am licensed.
Have you reached out to special ed attorneys? [https://www.copaa.org](https://www.copaa.org) There is a massive shortage of attorneys and advocates to represent families in disputes with school Districts.
I have had quite a few IDEA clients. It’s damned hard to get fees from the district denying the student their FAPE. In my experience the only time fees are paid is after a federal court win.
I want to downvote the districts for that. What a waste of taxpayer resources since the fees after a federal court win would be giant! There are some states where it’s very common to get fees as part of a settlement, in part because a district can pay $5-$10k in fees at mediation. I would definitely recommend connecting with COPAA attorneys in your state as there is strength in numbers.
Run away from MO if you want to practice IDEA law.
It may vary by state / area. We got fees in our case, without going beyond the district appeals process.
You can also work for non-profit organizations that represent the IDEA child and their parents. The pay isn't what most people desire, but it's a good start and good work.
I provided pro bono legal services to several non-profit organizations - where their needs were greater than their budgets could support.
Always.
I’m going to second this suggestion, we have a huge shortage in my area because literally everyone who does these cases is trying to retire and there isn’t a new generation taking them. You also don’t even need to be a lawyer to just be an advocate at 504/IEP meetings, so if you don’t feel comfortable taking due process cases/suing schools yet, give that a try first. (I’m restricted by my employer to advocacy-only for education cases, and have to pass my clients on to a legal partner if they want to file due process. I’m usually successful in resolving the issues at the table rather than having to send them along to other counsel.)
Contract defense work, esp. in rural areas. Many are so desperate for attorneys, all you need is a pulse and a bar license.
This is absolutely the answer. If there’s no PD office there they’ll usually pay pretty well for the work. And if there is- ask to be put on the list for when the PD’s office is recused. But don’t be a f***ing schmuck. Take CLEs, watch trials, and get involved in the local and state criminal defense associations. People deserve competent representation. I’ve seen way too many of these small town contract attorneys be absolutely worthless.
That 2nd paragraph is why I only practice in 1 area and don't take on work in others. I'm a one trick pony. If I tried to screw around in an unrelated area of law, I'd be committing malpractice.
How does one go about finding contract defense work in rural areas? Or any area for that matter?
Usually there are RFPs posted on state or county government websites. You'd want to use Google-fu to search for criminal/defense/attorney/contract/position/yadda yadda. Alternatively, contact DA offices and see if they can hook you up. For example, while in law school I talked to a couple of local attorneys and the judge in the cowtown I lived in, and they were desperate. The local attorneys were getting up in years, and the judge said the local judges were looking to go to the state law school to stump for new attorneys to come down and practice, since they were worried about having to get attorneys from nearby cities 1-2 hours away.
Thank you! Appreciate the insight.
Just keep pushing. Find your neighbor, friends, law school folks, etc. and tell them that you want to work legally. You won't make a lot of money to start. And ageism is definitely real, so you just have to keep going. Someone will take you and then you build from there. Also get active in the Local Bar associations. Let folks see you, write newsletter articles, moderate CLE panels, etc. Good Luck!
Thanks, great ideas!
You got this. And do not be discouraged by silence or rejection. You gotta keep going! You will be successful! And I am not going to gaslight you about ageism, sexism, racism, or any other ism or phobia, if you sense it you are probably right, and you keep going.
Following. Similar situation here.
Same boat, brother. I'm mid-40s and graduated in 2010, then left the profession in 2014 to go back to supply chain (my pre-laws school career) because we were going to move to different states every 18-24 months for several years for my wife's career. I'm back in the state I'm barred in, I got my license back and have been struggling to find work. I did lots of 'legal adjacent' work, negotiating and drafting customer and supplier contracts, writing corporate policy documents, etc. But, no traction at all so far.
Get on court appointed lists. Criminal defense, GAL, etc.
What about doing temp doc review while you keep volunteering to get experience? I think most of those positions are remote.
Government. Prosecutors office or PD.
Do criminal defense and join a CJA panel (or the local equivalent).
Are you licensed and in good standing in your state?
Yes
Look into positions on the mom project!
Have you had good luck with [The Mom Project?](https://themomproject.com/) Most of the jobs I’ve seen listed require experience.
Same. I missed a semester of law school, went back, graduated, and have paid the NY bar for ten years, while living out of state for a decade now, not practicing law. Hoping to get into remote legal work some how...
Op, I know a guy in your age. He was doing foreclosure for a foreclosure mill for a few years and then quit to be a financial advisor. He was not doing very well at the financial advisor gig so he was asked to leave. Because he is out of legal world for a while, he has to work for legal aid and become appearance attorney for legal aid on eviction/basic litigation. I guess you can try low pay gig like legal aid or public defender first, but I would go Legal Aid etc to do more work involving real estate as real estate maybe more lucrative and less stressful than criminal defense if you decides to open your own practice.
GAL work - there is always a need for guardian ad litems in my state. You do the training and get on the registry and take appointments from there. Pays not great but good way to get back into things.
Try working with startups or small businesses... It kills me every time a lawyer quotes us $300-800 an hour Sometimes they don't need a top shelf attorney, just someone who has been to law school. Lots of compliance stuff needs proper lawyers, the tech peeps are missing a lot of details.
What's wrong with $300/hour? Is that too high?
For the quality they bring to the table, yes. IMHO, my non legal team should not need to correct the work of outside counsel.
I agree with that. The price should correspond to the quality of services.
What worked for me is doing document review. I worked at a document review company. It gave me a crash course in many areas of law and it is low/no stress. If you are reliable and do a decent job, you will easily be promoted to QC, Team Lead or Review Manager I am now a staff attorney, doing doc review at a large firm. The partner on my first case liked my work, so I work exclusively for her. I think my age and prior document review has been an advantage because I have more real world/life experience than many recent law grads and document review has provided a rudimentary understanding of many industries and areas of law. I was recently offered an associate position at my firm. I don't think I would ever be invited to interview if I applied directly for an associate position, given my age and lack of experience. I think getting your foot in the door and then proving yourself is the way to go for people like us. Another path is doing document review at a consulting firm. I have a friend that works for one of the Big 4 and was recently recruited from within to work in another area of the firm, unrelated to document review. She said there is plenty of room for advancement. BTW, most document review and many staff attorney jobs are totally remote, although you can usually work at the office if you'd like. If you are interested in trying document review, I suggest you sign up for The Posse List. It is a legal job listserv that most document review recruiters use. [https://www.theposselist.com/how-to-subscribe-to-our-job-lists/](https://www.theposselist.com/how-to-subscribe-to-our-job-lists/)
What kind of experience do you need to work in doc review?
It depends, but usually the only requirement is to be licensed. Some projects do require experience in a certain area of law or undergrad study. Some projects only require a JD and no license.
None. It's crushingly boring work, but it pays the bills. Straight English first-pass doc review pays $25-30/hour, with steady downward pressure on that rate. Foreign language doc review is where it's at. Spanish is the lowest paid, at $45-50/hour. Scandinavian languages and Dutch are currently $80-90/hour, full-time work as long as the project lasts. Japanese is north of $100/hour. I know one attorney, total degenerate, who somehow learned Indonesian. He's got lots of project work in that language for $90/hour.
There are tons of insurance defense firms that give zero hoots about your age or experience level. If you can read and summarize depo transcripts, medical records, discovery responses and fill out insurance company’s reporting templates you are golden.
Use your law school’s job board, get on LinkedIn, indeed, use the job boards for your state bar. Set up google searches. Network like a fucking maniac. Contact law school classmates, look for events through your state bar, specialty bars and orgs, and just go and talk to people. Ask the people you know to introduce you to people. I’ve been working as an attorney for 17 years. Took me a year and a half, 350+ job applications, and countless networking events to find my current position, and that was looking in major urban markets, I’m not sure where you’re looking. Use your life experience to set yourself apart. A lot of places would disregard your resume bc of lack of legal experience but for the right place it would really make you stand out. You just have to turn over every rock trying to find that place though. It’s harsh and disheartening, but if you really just keep trying and get creative you’ll find something.
Solo is a great option. What state are you licensed? What did you focus on in school?
Solo without a day of experience is a very bad idea for the attorney and for any client who hires.
If you don't have relevant work experience and you graduated a long time ago, maybe try for some paralegal jobs? Pro: it will give you some experience and allow you to make some connections. Con: employers may think you're just using them.
I happen to agree with this. The issue is having zero experience with paperless practice, apps, etc. A firm where I worked tried this but she was clueless about how to use required software. It was her lack of practical skills, not the law, that were the problem. Getting a year in as a legal assistant or paralegal should get someone up to speed if they care about what they're doing.
Government
Did you take the bar exam??
Do you have any friends that are lawyers? Ask if you can “rent space” from them and take the cases they don’t want. Get on the indigent defense panel also. You aren’t gonna instantly start making good money of solo but after a year or so you should have a decent base.
Try indeed
I highly recommend Legal Aid. I learned family law, consumer law, landlord / tenant, and estate planning. I wasn’t a master of any of it, but after a year I knew infinitely more than I did when I started. And local firms and gov offices wanted to hire me because I had made a good impression. I am almost two decades in now and still appreciative for the start I got there. Bonus: the only thank you letters I have ever received as an attorney came from Legal Aid clients.
Try government instead of private. Prosecutors and public defenders are not picky, and I assume some state agencies wouldn’t be, either
Why would you assume state agencies aren't picky? LOL. Government employees just like the private sector tend to hire who they know or someone "already in the system". That said, try contacting a few alums in your area already working for the government and ask if they would be willing to meet you for an "informational interview". Ask them for any advice on "getting your foot in the door". Join the government lawyers section in your state and try to attend their meetings. You can sometimes find a low paying part time government job and then go from there. Also the child support offices are always hiring due to high turnover.
Thanks!