Journos all too close to the club and so dependent on their drip feeding of info over last few years has us without a proper good take on this. I believe Kevin Maguire who has stated again and again that we are not in trouble PSR wise. I don't trust the suits running the club. I don't trust red bull are not in line to take over. I don't trust anyone where investment money is their primary concern and no one should and we shouldn't be surprised at all. This is football now.
Tbf the club statement is fairly deft on this. It implies more strongly this sale is to allow us to buy to get promoted than it does say it’s all down to PSR
Thinking about it, obviously we don't want him to leave.
But spurs are buying him for his potential, not his ability. Admittedly, he's in their immediate first team plans by the sound of it, but they're not expecting him to play at a 40m level right out of the gate.
In terms of getting us promoted, we're probably better off with Summerville staying and archie going. And promotion is worth a lot more than £40m.
A fee which which puts him as the 4th most expensive 18 year old ever (the other 3 are Brazilians who signed for Real, including come guy called Vinicius)
.... but football isn't just about cold logic and record transfers, which is why this move hurts.
The issue here though is Summerville won’t stay; he’s just dragging his heels and waiting for an offer he wants, guarantee the closer we get to transfer window the more desperate he will be to leave. No way he is in our squad once window closes
You're probably right. I wonder if we've had enquiries from (for the sake of argument) Brentford and Everton, and he wants to go to a top 6 team.
Then if we get to tbe end of the window, he'll settle for Everton, or if he'll think he'll stay if those big teams don't come calling.
It seems much more likely he'd go to an Everton, even if he's thinking of them as a stepping stone, but we'll have to wait and see.
I doubt Everton have Summerville money. If they're in for Summerville why would they continue to keep Harrison on their books?
I heard PSG may be showing interest. He'd be better off staying with us another season and continuing to grow his brand, than potentially spend a year in a struggling team looking at a relegation battle. He's young enough that career success long term probably trumps the higher salaries he can attract now. Unless PSG dangle fuck off money under his nose..
Knowing how much stock Leeds fans place in loyalty, another season here will have us eating out of his hands.
I think he leaves for a top or glamourous European team or a big six UK club. Otherwise I think he may take a leaf out of Rodon's book and stay here knowing he's guaranteed a major role and he can comfortably cope with the talent levels he's up against. The long game suits Summerville right now.
> I doubt Everton have Summerville money.
I was just using them as an example of a lower tier PL team.
I suppose for a lot of those types of team, it's a bit of a merry go round, if their players move on to bigger things, they'll want replacements, otherwise they're set.
For example, if Palace lose Eze to a big team, they might be interested in Cry, if he stays, they'll stick with what they've got.
> He's young enough that career success long term probably trumps the higher salaries he can attract now.
True on the one hand, but on the other, there's nothing more he can prove at Championship level. Scoring a dozen PL goals for an Everton does a lot more for his stock than scoring 30 for leeds as we get promoted.
Summerville strikes me as a guy who loves to be loved, so just maybe another year rinsing Championship carthorses for Leeds has marginally more appeal than running his nads off for little reward at a Villa or Brentford. He gets the big match atmosphere at a packed Elland Road, only a handful of clubs are going to give him that even in the PL.
I agree, he'd fit in at Palace but why would they buy the type of player they already have in abundance? They'd want Summerville for the price he was worth 2 years ago.
It could be the case that the clubs who could use him can't afford him, and the clubs that can afford him probably don't need him, at least in England.
I think ultimately he'll want to know what his ceiling is ability wise and he won't find that out as long as we stay in the Champo. Maybe he'll go foreign.
I read somewhere he has had offers but he wasn’t that keen, he’s ambitious and likely wants to play in Europe, there were reports slot likes him and also xabi almost, just a shame really that it couldn’t have been agreed last month and saved us having to make the decision on Archie, but what can you do!
Unfortunately the Euros have screwed timings up I think, lots of clubs looking at players in that as a scouting opportunity and delaying decisions until it’s finished
Yea 100% agree. Also the new PSR reporting deadline is just an opportunity for potential buyers to play chicken with clubs who are being touted as falling foul. Effectively forcing their hand to sell, whole thing is such a mess! In a perfect world we get promoted next season, spurs have a shocking season, miss Europe l, coach gets sacked l, new coach doesn’t rate Archie and we buy him back for £20m, long shot but one can dream!!
Really just is the state of football now.
Smaller teams sell their soul to stay within terms of FFP and PSR.
The big teams take the spoils and then loan the players out for a few years.
We wouldnt have had to if we went up but again, thats the cost of not getting promoted
Sucks it had to be Archie. But hey if not Archie it would have been Cre. So we would have lost either way- but atleast the fee was good. We got Rodon. Hopefully we keep Cre now and piss the league.
"the way of football now" on the other hand run a club unsustainably like us, sheff wed, Portsmouth etc hell even Leicester who are gonna struggle.
End of the day clubs are community assets.
As much as it's shit to see him leave, at least financially its good for both us and him, and this can only help his career (spurs things notwithstanding) if there was pressure from the board I disagree with it, but at the end of the day Archie signed the contract and must've been at least palatable when it came to moving, or he'd simply have refused.
It just stings that we have to lose such a promising, homegrown and historical player (agree or not, the gray dynasty is a part of our legacy) due to financial regulations which are not fit for purpose. Look at villa for example, make the CL and still forced to be a selling club.
All in all, there's nothing we can do about it as fans, we haven't been robbed it's a fair deal, we see Rodon back in a Leeds shirt, and while we won't get to see Archie progress here, at least we can be happy that he is looking at a promising career.
I just sincerely hope the board haven't burnt bridges during this process, I'd sooner see club legacy and history remain intact.
Good luck to the lad
It is fair to say it is good business for a championship club. It is fair to say he’ll be worth more later. It is fair to say we will have greater flexibility to sign players and get back to the farce that is the premier league. It is fair to say it’s naive from our American ownership group that doesn’t fully grasp the cultural implications of the move. It is fair to say that the game has changed and P&S is broken. All these things can be true.
And, this is the saddest I’ve been about football in a while.
I think a lot of people are underselling just how good Gray is and seem to imagine a player played out of position occasionally struggling means there are doubts about his quality. For his age, that was an impeccable first season and he was consistently bossing grown men.
He will be a future England international and probably a top 6 Premier League player for the rest of his career.
I accept given no one was in for Summerville that we did not have a great deal of choice but a player like that comes along once in a decade, if that.
Couldn't we just have taken the penalty? The worst it seems to be is a possible transfer embargo and a few points, and we might even be promoted by the time they get around to actually dishing things out and just discount it like Leicester did.
I also don't get the thinking behind how the club has been run, if we were betting the house on going up last season, why not invest during the Jan window? If we are planning for a more sustainable future then they could have offloaded some other players last season rather than the one of the real assets we had, who (by all accounts) was happy to stay.
To be fair in January it wasn’t exactly an outside bet that we would go up.
I wouldn’t ever want to accept a penalty because as we’ve seen the punishments appear to have no uniformity whatsoever. We would end up being the team they made an example of.
Who could we have offloaded? Most of them were on stupid contracts allowing them to go out on loan. No team is going to buy a player they can loan.
I'm not sure anybodies underselling him. The only three 18 year olds who've ever gone for more money than that, all to Real Madrid, and all 3 now established in the Brazil national team.
Maybe I'm underselling him to say "I'd be surprised if he makes his england debut in the next 12 months", but that's the type of calibre player we're comparing him to.
40m is a lot of money (even if those Brazilians are worth a hell of a lot more than 40m now).
Is he worth it? In the long term it might well be a bargain, but we don't really have the luxury of waiting around for him to turn into a Grealish or Rice we can sell for 100m. For a teenager who's relatively unproven, it's a lot.
If we’re being realistic there was always a ceiling with how far he could have taken us, we go up he has a stellar first and then you have the big big clubs sniffing for slightly more money, eventually we would have to cave, just like Villa did with Grealish and West Ham with Rice
Perhaps, but they got a number of years and success out of them. We got one year. Villa repeatedly turned down lucrative offers for Grealish.
The problem is our seeming refusal to give players contracts that don’t simply give them an automatic escape clause or a low release clause. Hopefully we will start to see the error of our ways.
They got those because they were succeeding (at least in terms of PSR). If Villa had gone down in the first prem season no doubt they’d have had to offload Grealish for a lot less, that’s just the consequence of missing out on the premier league
Release clauses are a good thing, it’s a sort of mutual agreement of a price both parties think is fair which prevents a situation like Gnonto reoccurring from last summer, if he’d have had a release clause of say £25m, he’s agreed to that price to be sold at if a club comes and then it’s down to him and his agent to find a club to pay it
Grealish was in his 20s at that point and had been a starter for Villa for a few years - he even played for them in the PL when they went down, and Spurs were after him then. The comparison is when they were in the Championship, at which point they still held on to him.
Without a release clause Gray doesn’t go this year and then probably goes for £60m in a couple of years. They are a mixed bag.
Last line: No he doesn't.
We don't sell now, we get a transfer embargo, we get points deducted, we stay down. He goes then. No release clause so clubs can lowball us even more. He goes for about £20 million.
That’s if we repeat the flawed strategy of having no other outgoings lined up. We are going to sell Summerville regardless so there is no reason that could not have been sorted.
If his last name wasn't Gray this would surely be a no-brainer move for both player and club. Tons of money for such a young player, and a great opportunity with a big club in the Premier League.
Being a Gray makes it sad for the fans, but shit happens. When the club gets back (and established) in the PL we can stop this kind of talent loss, maybe in time for Archie's little brother.
I have to accept that although the club have maybe not handled it perfectly (no smoke without fire I’m sure) - to say they’re forcing him into this is a fantasy dreamt up by people who just want to be upset at every step.
Ultimately if he wanted to stay he would be able to just say no - I have a contract. Or in January he could have said “no I don’t want a release clause”. Players, especially promising players l, are always leaving the door open to better and brighter things and I don’t judge them for it one bit. Even in interviews he’s stated he wants to stay at Leeds “as long as possible” which is not "I want to stay forever" chat.
Everyone in this is winning. Apart from, ironically enough, Spurs who are yet to know for sure if they’re winning or not. But I suspect Archie will go on to great things for someone be it Spurs or another top tier club. When was the last really really promising homegrown player that we actually kept hold of forever? There are none. This isn’t a new phenomenon brought on by “owners looking to use us as a cash cow” or something. It’s brought on by owners who are *losing* just enough to stay compliant.
The money is fair. It sounds totally necessary for the clubs perspective and the player is now rich beyond his wildest dreams. He’s hit the big time and he’s leaving home and I wish him every success. We should be proud of him. Not bitching over it.
So a few things:
- Archie is a good player but he’s not at a level to be starting either at full back or central midfield for Spurs so his minutes won’t be great
- 40m is a great fee from our perspective, it’s not far off what we got for Phillips (read into that what you may). Maybe that’s evidence that my first point is wrong but they spent 47.5 on Brennan Johnson last year who’s played but is hardly their star.
- Not great from a romantic perspective but let’s have it right his Grandad (Frank not Eddie we need to remember) left to Forest in the 70s and then came back. But that was quite transactional back then… there are other grays in the academy.
- This is a very obvious cost of not going up.
From my American perspective re: wariness of the 49ers. There’s just nothing like this in American sport. The reason why the Lebron James and his son being on the same team is such a story is because it’s so so rare to have a family connection in team sports. Even if a kid plays basketball at the same uni has father or grandfather played it’s a story. We don’t have real ‘youth setups’ or kids coming up through the organizations.
I can’t expect the 49ers to even slightly grasp the importance of Archie to this club. Or its supporters. It’s like the death of a dream. If Archie could have won a Prem title or helped Leeds get back into the Champions League its impact would have been immeasurable. It’s a deeply saddening sale imo
I just want to know more about what went on with Summerville - what were the offers, how much were they, why were we unable to do anything without his permission, why was that our plan approaching the PSR deadline if there weren't concrete offers for him, was there any other option than selling Gray if not Summerville.
Just seems really fucking stupid and obvious that Gray holds huge value, and if you want to avoid selling him why not try to arrange sales of players like Summerville and Gnonto earlier in the season so you're not desperately pushing Gray out of the door against his will on deadline day.
Or were the club just really that confident we'd get promoted and be able to flog Meslier for 30m or something.
The difference is people were willing to pay our valuation of Gray, people weren’t currently willing to pay our valuation for Summerville and with PSR pressure we had to sell someone. Now, we can negotiate whatever fee we feel is right for Summerville as we’re not fucked if we don’t sell him
Your second paragraph really is just your emotion about this shining through.
Why would we sort out deals for players when we don't know what league we're going to be in?
If we knew we'd be staying in the Championship and then they didn't make deals, fine. But then you'd be crying about a lack of ambition.
That just isn't how it works and it's incredibly complex - you're making it out to be like Fifa or FM. That isn't reality.
If we'd gone up, there's every chance Summerville and Gnonto stay, but if we'd made deals already, they'd be gone, then people would be whinging. Plus PSR wouldn't be as much of an issue, if at all, if we went up.
Don't tar me with the FIFA/FM brush mate that's not what I'm acting like lol
I'm not saying you can just choose to sell players at will but as recently as last summer we apparently rejected bids for Gnonto, Summerville, Rutter, and Meslier. All of that interest evaporated leaving only Gray as an option?
Why would we shop around our players (whether you actually agree anything concrete or not) but simultaneously it's okay putting a release clause into Gray's new contract? You may as well hang a big for sale sign round his neck lol.
Sentimentality aside, Gray and Summerville were in the same position. Gray got an offer that appealed to him and took it, Summerville didn't. The club can't force anyone to sign a contract.
There's a suggestion in some of the comments about this that Summerville got to dig his heels in and bears some responsibility for the club selling Archie. It tells you more about the people making the comments than it does the players involved.
Both of them could have left, or neither. At the end of the day they'll both prioritise their careers over our feelings.
short paywall summary as per subreddit rules (i'm able to read the whole article just by scrolling past the account creation thing but ymmv):
Leeds planned to sell Summerville but received no bids that both Leeds and Summerville were willing to accept, and this forced the sale of Gray by the end of the PSR accounting period (June 30) in order to be compliant with the rules. Brentford and Thomas Frank had been talking to Gray for some time and trying to convince him that a move there would benefit his career. Gray had a medical at Brentford and they met the release clause, but he ultimately rejected them and agreed terms with Spurs. Gray made it clear throughout that he wanted to remain at Leeds, but the club felt that selling him made financial sense. Gray's camp feel he was put under pressure and are frustrated with Leeds' handling of the situation. 49ers are aware of the negative fan sentiment about the sale but are hoping that the club's now healthy financial position will make a return to the Premier League more likely.
So rumours about the Grays being unhappy, although slightly exaggerated are true. Archie’s goodbye post on IG however implies Harry likely staying put however which is great news.
Very interesting about summerville ’no bids that… summerville were willing to accept’. I imagine this would have been the Brighton interest? Before they signed the Newcastle winger. Wonder if he’s holding out for a top 6 move that might never come or he’s truly happy to give it another season?
The article is very telling and it does back up the rumours on Waccoe that the move came fast and he was forced out the club and didn’t feel he had a choice.
Yes Spurs are an upgrade, yes the money is great, yes Rodon is a great purchase.
I am just wary now with 49ers might have their interests in solely making a profit at this club. We should not act like they have been our saviour.
It’s a sad day. Archie could really become a world class player.
How exactly have the 49ers made a profit here? This is to ensure they’ve *lost* the maximum amount they’re allowed to lose.
The Waccoe rumours are far more dramatic than this article is outlining.
Second to last paragraph you talk about them being in it for profit after seeing this sale go through. I’m saying that’s poor reasoning and explained why.
Interesting then that you’ve expressed your concern on a transfer that Gray is involved in. You’re “wary now” after it. Hard to to take it any other way than you think this transfer is a money grab.
It just the Gray transfer. Selling a minority stake to Red Bull. Who own loads of clubs.
Journalists such as Kieran Maguire (runs price of football) had repeatedly stated that our accounts were good for that financial year. Suddenly we rushed to sell Gray.
There’s been signs for me that that is their strategy.
So our accounts were fine and we’ve done this for no reason? Would find that hard to take. But we will find out soon either way if there’s any truth to that when they post financials. Link to a source?
The best upside to this transfer is the fact we don’t need to sell anyone else. Not to say they won’t but it will be fully on our terms if we do. We only “rushed to sell gray” because we got a great offer for him and it makes sense. One more year at Leeds does nothing for him or us IMO. If he’s gonna go then he’s gonna go. We just need to replace him at RB.
[https://x.com/lufcfanz0ne/status/1807713249124557034?s=46](https://x.com/lufcfanz0ne/status/1807713249124557034?s=46)
@kieranmaguire is his Twitter handle
“I see that Leeds fans are afraid of a fire sale to apply with PSR rules, I don’t see that the case with Leeds”
So- an alternative misinterpretation of some fairly pedestrian detail from this guy would be that there won’t be a “fire sale” because we are in line with PSR and the Gray transfer just helps solidify that position for the next year. Meaning we just need a RB to replace him and whatever else we can get from the change.
Fire sale being multiple player sales to swing them into large profit next year of course. We will see if that’s the case next April I guess.
Selling players isn’t how the 49ers make money.
Unless they immediately take the money out the club, which they won’t do because we’d know about it, they make no money from this
The opposite, like all champo owners they will haemorrhage money into the club until we go up. When we go up they get to put in less investment if they want. But they still don’t make any money unless they do a glazers and make cash withdrawals from the account
The main way they make money is at the end, by selling the club for a profit. That’s the name of the game here. It’s unlikely the Archie sale was motivated by any short term incentive to profiteer because they won’t make any profit from it
Don't get how you jump to the 49ers wanting to make a profit from your take on the article - which I disagree with in part.
I've been catching up with all the comments on the threads regarding this and throughout you've been measured but this is wild.
This article doesn't change any thinking about the fact the 49ers were basically forced into a corner. If anything, it confirms this was their only out, or we take punishment (which would be fatal to our chances of getting promoted).
On the fact he was forced out, I think that's too strong of a word.
To me, it reads, Archie didn't want to go and he was gutted about it, but he understood why it was happening and that's why talks were going on provisionally for weeks, and why he spoke to the club after Brentford and told them to reject it for Spurs.
It's absolutely gutting it's come to this but the issue is with PSR, not the board or club.
“Though Gray left no doubt he was happy to remain at Leeds and that option was a possibility, there was frustration among those close to Gray about how the situation was handled and the pressure it created. The deal made business sense to Leeds under the circumstances.”
This would be the quote on the article in my opinion that backs up the rumours circulating that Archie didn’t want to go but Leeds accepting bids (plus apparently telling they had to sell him and he wasn’t coming back to pre-season), that those close to him (family) get he was getting forced out and didn’t like the pressure.
My wariness comes from the being an investment group to start with, then selling the shares to Red Bull, and now doing this.
Ultimately yes PSR is forcing their hand. I still think they are driven by profit and not necessarily building up the club. At the moment they both go hand in hand.
I get that, but they were always going to be pissed off. This all comes back to Radz and his stooge Orta, unfortunately.
As well as us not getting promoted of course, but a major part of that again lies at their door.
This is a very solid business decision and quite frankly their ability to get this sorted, despite the emotion and sentiment surrounding it, actually only makes me believe in them more.
I think you can be pissed off at how it's come to this but also realise the board were backed into a corner and the ire of anger should be more appropriately thrown at the stupid PSR rules - that do nothing to protect clubs from going bust or being unsustainable and only serve to benefit those at the top - and the former owners.
Your final point, is correct. But they've never said anything outside of that really. Of course they're not going to come out and point blank say, "look, we're here to take this club to the upper levels so we can ultimately earn some money"; clearly it has to be laced with some feeling about the club.
But it's been clear from the off they want to make a big return and that means building us up and making us the club we all feel we deserve - I think it's fine to accept that.
I get there's some cynicism and I understand you're alluding to the fact those two elements may eventually not marry up but I can't see that happening because success is the only way they're going to achieve that financial goal. That has to be built on solid foundations too.
In many ways, that hyperfocused business mind they seem to have looks to only be beneficial for us, off what we've seen so far, whereas an idiot like Radz and Orta who pump their chests, often let their judgements be clouded with emotion.
My personal view is, the 49ers ultimately want that monetary gain but do also have respect for the club.
What were the options?
Just say no to transfers and put dent immediatly to promotion race well before season starts?
We all hate selling Gray, but we have to accept financial reality and rules
Where have I said I question their option to sell Gray here?
I’d have preferred they had found another way or sold Summerville sooner but I accept this was done to appease PSR.
As stated my wariness comes from other decisions.
>I’d have preferred they had found another way or sold Summerville sooner
They tried this but it didn't work out. I think everyone would have preferred this, even the 49ers
Yeah but you did twist it into 49ers wanting to turn a quick profit. There was literally nothing to show that. Everyone wished there were other sales to ensure gray stayed but they had to make the hard call when no offers were made for the others. Didn’t help with the euros timing either
You can’t sell Summerville if you’re getting lowball offers / no offers at all. If we sold Summerville at potentially half his value we would still have to sell
Others (when there were interests but 0 offers for them) to not sell gray.
It’s not as easy as saying we should have sold X & Y instead of gray. Clubs must actually offer money for them first.
Fucking PSR... I don't quite understand this but from what I've gather, we might have to go through selling our best player again next season even if we get promoted? Heard Leicester is selling Dewsbury-Hall, who was their academy player and best player last season, to Chelsea due to the fucking PSR.
I really hope we could liquidate Llorente and Wober. The more money we could earn from them, the more it helps with the books. I doubt Kristensen has any suitors..
Leicester had to sell when they got promoted because they broke PSR rules in the prem when they got relegated.
I believe we passed PSR in the prem so wouldn’t have to do that.
£40m for a player who potentially could be worth £100m or could be worth £1m is brilliant by the club. Makes total sense to get money now and invest it in the team. Yes would be great to have kept Archie but this is what happens to clubs in our position. 2nd tier club with a huge asset, was only a matter of time until he left.
You never know we might get him back on loan.
So he agreed a contract with a release clause which was active for as long as we remain in the Championship but really wanted to stay this year? If true, not the wisest move considering it was obvious we would need make sales if we didn't get promoted and the pressure the PSR deadline creates to sell before things have had a chance to play out in the market with all your assets (Summerville, Gnonto).
Although unusual, it’s likely the 49ers negotiated the release clause, knowing that if none of the other big 3 got sold by June 30th, Archie could be ‘sacrificed’. Not a great look for the club. If they actually care about the PR backlash they can’t afford to lose summerville too. Give him the Gnonto treatment if needs must imo.
I don't see it. He held all the cards in the negotiation, he could have just said no.
I think his camp were likely miffed at the club and the PSR deadline creating pressure and difficulty choosing the right move for him, hence the Brentford/Spurs flip flopping and not the idea of him leaving full stop.
I don't think Gray would have been gutted to stay another season if a good move didn't materialise but I also don't doubt that his camp were planning his fairly immediately future elsewhere unless the club had a stratospheric rise (ironically made pretty impossible by PSR).
At the same time, I don't see any evidence that the club have done anything but try and comply with PSR while maxinising the fees we recieve and fielding the best team we can in the immediate future. And Gray's camp could have always dragged their heels until after the PSR deadline.
It seems like this is just another example of the realities of modern football and as much as I don't like those, sometimes you just have to accept them rather than looking for villians.
Yeah all reasonable. I don't think there's any guilty parties in this. Just an extremely unusual set of circumstances surrounding a release clause; thought we were don't with them lol
They wouldn’t need a release clause to “sacrifice” him, if anything it weakened their position since they couldn’t bargain for more specially since multiple clubs wanted him.
That just isn't right though, is it?
Clubs would know our situation, know we're in the Championship still, see there's no release clause, and lowball us big time - therefore leading to us needing to sell even more players and potentially not sorting the problem.
£35 million is an outlandish fee and putting in that release clause protected our asset in the event we stayed down.
With multiple clubs in the hunt to sign Archie, I don’t think lowballing would be an option. They could’ve lowballed us anyways even with the release clause if we were that desperate since the release clause was not the only way to sign him
It really would have been... club offers £20 million, next club offers £20 million with incentives, one after £25 million.
He really isn't worth what we got for him, so clubs wouldn't have gone near that price, they'd have just jumped out in the hope we scrambled and panicked at the last minute.
The release clause gave us protection and clubs who really desired him knew what they would have to pay. It meant there didn't need to be any nonsense and back and forth at a crucial time for us.
A week before - you pay this or you ain't getting him.
Day before - okay, we need this money we'll accept £30 million.
It sets the marker.
I guess this means that even though we’re not strapped for cash, the club thinks 40m could be invested into the club for more immediate impact (Rodon and either keeping Gnonto or signing other players) for promotion than what Gray would offer us.
We should still sell an attacker or two if it means balancing the squad. £40m (£30m after Rodon) won’t do that, with our current squad, if that’s all we have to spend. Would have to be loans…which is fine, of course, if it gets us up!
presented without comment:
"Gray made it clear throughout the process that his preference was to remain at Elland Road. At no stage did he ask to move on."
"Gray’s younger brother, Harry, is in the Leeds academy — another link between the Gray family and Elland Road — and it was certainly not a case of a player trying to force a move to a club playing at a higher level. Though Gray left no doubt he was happy to remain at Leeds and that option was a possibility, there was frustration among those close to Gray about how the situation was handled and the pressure it created."
It’s easy to frame this as a good deal for all parties, Leeds and Spurs are both happy. Gray was developed by Leeds and now he’s signing a massive contract.
This is sitting at -6, but it's hardly wrong. 49ers don't care about Leeds United. They saw Archie Gray was worth £40m and grabbed it. It's in line with the RB player trading model, too, which is concerning.
The owners will do what is B£$T for L££D$.
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. This is exactly what we are.
49ers are in this for the profit, make no doubts about it. Like a lot of US investment groups, they've watched Wrexham et al.
My predictions: we will get promoted, we will become a top 10 PL side, and challenge for Europe. Red Bull will buy them out for billions, then it's game over once and for all.
The downvotes are obvious. This deal is not for the 49ers to make profit. This is to ensure we LOSE no more than we are allowed to as a business concern.
If the 49ers are just in it for the profit as you imply then why not sell every single asset we own and replace them with dross and youth team players to completely slim our wage bill down and actually start turning profit?
The best way for them to make anything out of this clubs period would be to make us a success on the pitch by apportioning our funds in a way that keeps us in the rules and maximises our chances for promotion. By all means have a pop at them for not investing if we get to that point.
Second paragraph - bit daft. Goal is to get us promoted, so value of the assets (club and players) is worth more.
Third paragraph - see my predictions.
Just out of curiosity, have you read what the 49er Enterprises actually are?
From the blurb online:
49ers Enterprises is a corporate venture capital arm of The San Francisco 49ers and is based in Santa Clara, California.
Yes exactly. They’d be mad to be in it for profit without aiming for promotion. I’m fine with that tbh. We’re only profitable if we go up and we aren’t going up if they bin off all our best players like our old boards used to.
At least we didn’t “invest” in a decent song!
That over hyped temu Bielsa down there will ruin him.
Hope we can keep Summerville
Journos all too close to the club and so dependent on their drip feeding of info over last few years has us without a proper good take on this. I believe Kevin Maguire who has stated again and again that we are not in trouble PSR wise. I don't trust the suits running the club. I don't trust red bull are not in line to take over. I don't trust anyone where investment money is their primary concern and no one should and we shouldn't be surprised at all. This is football now.
Tbf the club statement is fairly deft on this. It implies more strongly this sale is to allow us to buy to get promoted than it does say it’s all down to PSR
Like I said, a PR own goal by the new owners.
PR was definitely not the goal of Radz and Orta regime. I still remember the "Relegation is impossible" mindset.
Thinking about it, obviously we don't want him to leave. But spurs are buying him for his potential, not his ability. Admittedly, he's in their immediate first team plans by the sound of it, but they're not expecting him to play at a 40m level right out of the gate. In terms of getting us promoted, we're probably better off with Summerville staying and archie going. And promotion is worth a lot more than £40m. A fee which which puts him as the 4th most expensive 18 year old ever (the other 3 are Brazilians who signed for Real, including come guy called Vinicius) .... but football isn't just about cold logic and record transfers, which is why this move hurts.
The issue here though is Summerville won’t stay; he’s just dragging his heels and waiting for an offer he wants, guarantee the closer we get to transfer window the more desperate he will be to leave. No way he is in our squad once window closes
You're probably right. I wonder if we've had enquiries from (for the sake of argument) Brentford and Everton, and he wants to go to a top 6 team. Then if we get to tbe end of the window, he'll settle for Everton, or if he'll think he'll stay if those big teams don't come calling. It seems much more likely he'd go to an Everton, even if he's thinking of them as a stepping stone, but we'll have to wait and see.
I doubt Everton have Summerville money. If they're in for Summerville why would they continue to keep Harrison on their books? I heard PSG may be showing interest. He'd be better off staying with us another season and continuing to grow his brand, than potentially spend a year in a struggling team looking at a relegation battle. He's young enough that career success long term probably trumps the higher salaries he can attract now. Unless PSG dangle fuck off money under his nose.. Knowing how much stock Leeds fans place in loyalty, another season here will have us eating out of his hands. I think he leaves for a top or glamourous European team or a big six UK club. Otherwise I think he may take a leaf out of Rodon's book and stay here knowing he's guaranteed a major role and he can comfortably cope with the talent levels he's up against. The long game suits Summerville right now.
> I doubt Everton have Summerville money. I was just using them as an example of a lower tier PL team. I suppose for a lot of those types of team, it's a bit of a merry go round, if their players move on to bigger things, they'll want replacements, otherwise they're set. For example, if Palace lose Eze to a big team, they might be interested in Cry, if he stays, they'll stick with what they've got. > He's young enough that career success long term probably trumps the higher salaries he can attract now. True on the one hand, but on the other, there's nothing more he can prove at Championship level. Scoring a dozen PL goals for an Everton does a lot more for his stock than scoring 30 for leeds as we get promoted.
Summerville strikes me as a guy who loves to be loved, so just maybe another year rinsing Championship carthorses for Leeds has marginally more appeal than running his nads off for little reward at a Villa or Brentford. He gets the big match atmosphere at a packed Elland Road, only a handful of clubs are going to give him that even in the PL. I agree, he'd fit in at Palace but why would they buy the type of player they already have in abundance? They'd want Summerville for the price he was worth 2 years ago. It could be the case that the clubs who could use him can't afford him, and the clubs that can afford him probably don't need him, at least in England. I think ultimately he'll want to know what his ceiling is ability wise and he won't find that out as long as we stay in the Champo. Maybe he'll go foreign.
You could say, he might go Dutch 😏... I'll get my coat.
I read somewhere he has had offers but he wasn’t that keen, he’s ambitious and likely wants to play in Europe, there were reports slot likes him and also xabi almost, just a shame really that it couldn’t have been agreed last month and saved us having to make the decision on Archie, but what can you do!
Unfortunately the Euros have screwed timings up I think, lots of clubs looking at players in that as a scouting opportunity and delaying decisions until it’s finished
Yea 100% agree. Also the new PSR reporting deadline is just an opportunity for potential buyers to play chicken with clubs who are being touted as falling foul. Effectively forcing their hand to sell, whole thing is such a mess! In a perfect world we get promoted next season, spurs have a shocking season, miss Europe l, coach gets sacked l, new coach doesn’t rate Archie and we buy him back for £20m, long shot but one can dream!!
Really just is the state of football now. Smaller teams sell their soul to stay within terms of FFP and PSR. The big teams take the spoils and then loan the players out for a few years. We wouldnt have had to if we went up but again, thats the cost of not getting promoted Sucks it had to be Archie. But hey if not Archie it would have been Cre. So we would have lost either way- but atleast the fee was good. We got Rodon. Hopefully we keep Cre now and piss the league.
"the way of football now" on the other hand run a club unsustainably like us, sheff wed, Portsmouth etc hell even Leicester who are gonna struggle. End of the day clubs are community assets.
As much as it's shit to see him leave, at least financially its good for both us and him, and this can only help his career (spurs things notwithstanding) if there was pressure from the board I disagree with it, but at the end of the day Archie signed the contract and must've been at least palatable when it came to moving, or he'd simply have refused. It just stings that we have to lose such a promising, homegrown and historical player (agree or not, the gray dynasty is a part of our legacy) due to financial regulations which are not fit for purpose. Look at villa for example, make the CL and still forced to be a selling club. All in all, there's nothing we can do about it as fans, we haven't been robbed it's a fair deal, we see Rodon back in a Leeds shirt, and while we won't get to see Archie progress here, at least we can be happy that he is looking at a promising career. I just sincerely hope the board haven't burnt bridges during this process, I'd sooner see club legacy and history remain intact. Good luck to the lad
Villa aren't "forced to be a selling club" they have to sell because average players like John mcginn are on 150 k a week
It is fair to say it is good business for a championship club. It is fair to say he’ll be worth more later. It is fair to say we will have greater flexibility to sign players and get back to the farce that is the premier league. It is fair to say it’s naive from our American ownership group that doesn’t fully grasp the cultural implications of the move. It is fair to say that the game has changed and P&S is broken. All these things can be true. And, this is the saddest I’ve been about football in a while.
I think a lot of people are underselling just how good Gray is and seem to imagine a player played out of position occasionally struggling means there are doubts about his quality. For his age, that was an impeccable first season and he was consistently bossing grown men. He will be a future England international and probably a top 6 Premier League player for the rest of his career. I accept given no one was in for Summerville that we did not have a great deal of choice but a player like that comes along once in a decade, if that.
Couldn't we just have taken the penalty? The worst it seems to be is a possible transfer embargo and a few points, and we might even be promoted by the time they get around to actually dishing things out and just discount it like Leicester did. I also don't get the thinking behind how the club has been run, if we were betting the house on going up last season, why not invest during the Jan window? If we are planning for a more sustainable future then they could have offloaded some other players last season rather than the one of the real assets we had, who (by all accounts) was happy to stay.
To be fair in January it wasn’t exactly an outside bet that we would go up. I wouldn’t ever want to accept a penalty because as we’ve seen the punishments appear to have no uniformity whatsoever. We would end up being the team they made an example of. Who could we have offloaded? Most of them were on stupid contracts allowing them to go out on loan. No team is going to buy a player they can loan.
I'm not sure anybodies underselling him. The only three 18 year olds who've ever gone for more money than that, all to Real Madrid, and all 3 now established in the Brazil national team. Maybe I'm underselling him to say "I'd be surprised if he makes his england debut in the next 12 months", but that's the type of calibre player we're comparing him to. 40m is a lot of money (even if those Brazilians are worth a hell of a lot more than 40m now). Is he worth it? In the long term it might well be a bargain, but we don't really have the luxury of waiting around for him to turn into a Grealish or Rice we can sell for 100m. For a teenager who's relatively unproven, it's a lot.
If we’re being realistic there was always a ceiling with how far he could have taken us, we go up he has a stellar first and then you have the big big clubs sniffing for slightly more money, eventually we would have to cave, just like Villa did with Grealish and West Ham with Rice
Perhaps, but they got a number of years and success out of them. We got one year. Villa repeatedly turned down lucrative offers for Grealish. The problem is our seeming refusal to give players contracts that don’t simply give them an automatic escape clause or a low release clause. Hopefully we will start to see the error of our ways.
They got those because they were succeeding (at least in terms of PSR). If Villa had gone down in the first prem season no doubt they’d have had to offload Grealish for a lot less, that’s just the consequence of missing out on the premier league Release clauses are a good thing, it’s a sort of mutual agreement of a price both parties think is fair which prevents a situation like Gnonto reoccurring from last summer, if he’d have had a release clause of say £25m, he’s agreed to that price to be sold at if a club comes and then it’s down to him and his agent to find a club to pay it
Grealish was in his 20s at that point and had been a starter for Villa for a few years - he even played for them in the PL when they went down, and Spurs were after him then. The comparison is when they were in the Championship, at which point they still held on to him. Without a release clause Gray doesn’t go this year and then probably goes for £60m in a couple of years. They are a mixed bag.
Last line: No he doesn't. We don't sell now, we get a transfer embargo, we get points deducted, we stay down. He goes then. No release clause so clubs can lowball us even more. He goes for about £20 million.
That’s if we repeat the flawed strategy of having no other outgoings lined up. We are going to sell Summerville regardless so there is no reason that could not have been sorted.
If his last name wasn't Gray this would surely be a no-brainer move for both player and club. Tons of money for such a young player, and a great opportunity with a big club in the Premier League. Being a Gray makes it sad for the fans, but shit happens. When the club gets back (and established) in the PL we can stop this kind of talent loss, maybe in time for Archie's little brother.
I remember when people said that about Aaron Lennon
I have to accept that although the club have maybe not handled it perfectly (no smoke without fire I’m sure) - to say they’re forcing him into this is a fantasy dreamt up by people who just want to be upset at every step. Ultimately if he wanted to stay he would be able to just say no - I have a contract. Or in January he could have said “no I don’t want a release clause”. Players, especially promising players l, are always leaving the door open to better and brighter things and I don’t judge them for it one bit. Even in interviews he’s stated he wants to stay at Leeds “as long as possible” which is not "I want to stay forever" chat. Everyone in this is winning. Apart from, ironically enough, Spurs who are yet to know for sure if they’re winning or not. But I suspect Archie will go on to great things for someone be it Spurs or another top tier club. When was the last really really promising homegrown player that we actually kept hold of forever? There are none. This isn’t a new phenomenon brought on by “owners looking to use us as a cash cow” or something. It’s brought on by owners who are *losing* just enough to stay compliant. The money is fair. It sounds totally necessary for the clubs perspective and the player is now rich beyond his wildest dreams. He’s hit the big time and he’s leaving home and I wish him every success. We should be proud of him. Not bitching over it.
Bloody hell lad you have changed your tune a bit
Nope not at all.
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So a few things: - Archie is a good player but he’s not at a level to be starting either at full back or central midfield for Spurs so his minutes won’t be great - 40m is a great fee from our perspective, it’s not far off what we got for Phillips (read into that what you may). Maybe that’s evidence that my first point is wrong but they spent 47.5 on Brennan Johnson last year who’s played but is hardly their star. - Not great from a romantic perspective but let’s have it right his Grandad (Frank not Eddie we need to remember) left to Forest in the 70s and then came back. But that was quite transactional back then… there are other grays in the academy. - This is a very obvious cost of not going up.
* This is a very obvious cost of not going up. Can't stress that enough
From my American perspective re: wariness of the 49ers. There’s just nothing like this in American sport. The reason why the Lebron James and his son being on the same team is such a story is because it’s so so rare to have a family connection in team sports. Even if a kid plays basketball at the same uni has father or grandfather played it’s a story. We don’t have real ‘youth setups’ or kids coming up through the organizations. I can’t expect the 49ers to even slightly grasp the importance of Archie to this club. Or its supporters. It’s like the death of a dream. If Archie could have won a Prem title or helped Leeds get back into the Champions League its impact would have been immeasurable. It’s a deeply saddening sale imo
I just want to know more about what went on with Summerville - what were the offers, how much were they, why were we unable to do anything without his permission, why was that our plan approaching the PSR deadline if there weren't concrete offers for him, was there any other option than selling Gray if not Summerville. Just seems really fucking stupid and obvious that Gray holds huge value, and if you want to avoid selling him why not try to arrange sales of players like Summerville and Gnonto earlier in the season so you're not desperately pushing Gray out of the door against his will on deadline day. Or were the club just really that confident we'd get promoted and be able to flog Meslier for 30m or something.
The difference is people were willing to pay our valuation of Gray, people weren’t currently willing to pay our valuation for Summerville and with PSR pressure we had to sell someone. Now, we can negotiate whatever fee we feel is right for Summerville as we’re not fucked if we don’t sell him
Your second paragraph really is just your emotion about this shining through. Why would we sort out deals for players when we don't know what league we're going to be in? If we knew we'd be staying in the Championship and then they didn't make deals, fine. But then you'd be crying about a lack of ambition. That just isn't how it works and it's incredibly complex - you're making it out to be like Fifa or FM. That isn't reality. If we'd gone up, there's every chance Summerville and Gnonto stay, but if we'd made deals already, they'd be gone, then people would be whinging. Plus PSR wouldn't be as much of an issue, if at all, if we went up.
Don't tar me with the FIFA/FM brush mate that's not what I'm acting like lol I'm not saying you can just choose to sell players at will but as recently as last summer we apparently rejected bids for Gnonto, Summerville, Rutter, and Meslier. All of that interest evaporated leaving only Gray as an option? Why would we shop around our players (whether you actually agree anything concrete or not) but simultaneously it's okay putting a release clause into Gray's new contract? You may as well hang a big for sale sign round his neck lol.
Sentimentality aside, Gray and Summerville were in the same position. Gray got an offer that appealed to him and took it, Summerville didn't. The club can't force anyone to sign a contract. There's a suggestion in some of the comments about this that Summerville got to dig his heels in and bears some responsibility for the club selling Archie. It tells you more about the people making the comments than it does the players involved. Both of them could have left, or neither. At the end of the day they'll both prioritise their careers over our feelings.
Not arguing here but did Summerville get an offer and if so what was it? Genuinely havent seen any chat about him
short paywall summary as per subreddit rules (i'm able to read the whole article just by scrolling past the account creation thing but ymmv): Leeds planned to sell Summerville but received no bids that both Leeds and Summerville were willing to accept, and this forced the sale of Gray by the end of the PSR accounting period (June 30) in order to be compliant with the rules. Brentford and Thomas Frank had been talking to Gray for some time and trying to convince him that a move there would benefit his career. Gray had a medical at Brentford and they met the release clause, but he ultimately rejected them and agreed terms with Spurs. Gray made it clear throughout that he wanted to remain at Leeds, but the club felt that selling him made financial sense. Gray's camp feel he was put under pressure and are frustrated with Leeds' handling of the situation. 49ers are aware of the negative fan sentiment about the sale but are hoping that the club's now healthy financial position will make a return to the Premier League more likely.
This will all be very funny when an offer comes in for Summerville later in the window and he wants out anyway
So rumours about the Grays being unhappy, although slightly exaggerated are true. Archie’s goodbye post on IG however implies Harry likely staying put however which is great news. Very interesting about summerville ’no bids that… summerville were willing to accept’. I imagine this would have been the Brighton interest? Before they signed the Newcastle winger. Wonder if he’s holding out for a top 6 move that might never come or he’s truly happy to give it another season?
if i had to guess i'd say it was that, yeah. Slot is known to think highly of Cree so maybe he is waiting to see how things pan out with Liverpool?
The article is very telling and it does back up the rumours on Waccoe that the move came fast and he was forced out the club and didn’t feel he had a choice. Yes Spurs are an upgrade, yes the money is great, yes Rodon is a great purchase. I am just wary now with 49ers might have their interests in solely making a profit at this club. We should not act like they have been our saviour. It’s a sad day. Archie could really become a world class player.
How exactly have the 49ers made a profit here? This is to ensure they’ve *lost* the maximum amount they’re allowed to lose. The Waccoe rumours are far more dramatic than this article is outlining.
Where did I say they made a profit here?
Second to last paragraph you talk about them being in it for profit after seeing this sale go through. I’m saying that’s poor reasoning and explained why.
Me suggesting they are in for profit isn’t specific to the Gray transfer.
Interesting then that you’ve expressed your concern on a transfer that Gray is involved in. You’re “wary now” after it. Hard to to take it any other way than you think this transfer is a money grab.
It just the Gray transfer. Selling a minority stake to Red Bull. Who own loads of clubs. Journalists such as Kieran Maguire (runs price of football) had repeatedly stated that our accounts were good for that financial year. Suddenly we rushed to sell Gray. There’s been signs for me that that is their strategy.
So our accounts were fine and we’ve done this for no reason? Would find that hard to take. But we will find out soon either way if there’s any truth to that when they post financials. Link to a source? The best upside to this transfer is the fact we don’t need to sell anyone else. Not to say they won’t but it will be fully on our terms if we do. We only “rushed to sell gray” because we got a great offer for him and it makes sense. One more year at Leeds does nothing for him or us IMO. If he’s gonna go then he’s gonna go. We just need to replace him at RB.
[https://x.com/lufcfanz0ne/status/1807713249124557034?s=46](https://x.com/lufcfanz0ne/status/1807713249124557034?s=46) @kieranmaguire is his Twitter handle
“I see that Leeds fans are afraid of a fire sale to apply with PSR rules, I don’t see that the case with Leeds” So- an alternative misinterpretation of some fairly pedestrian detail from this guy would be that there won’t be a “fire sale” because we are in line with PSR and the Gray transfer just helps solidify that position for the next year. Meaning we just need a RB to replace him and whatever else we can get from the change. Fire sale being multiple player sales to swing them into large profit next year of course. We will see if that’s the case next April I guess.
Selling players isn’t how the 49ers make money. Unless they immediately take the money out the club, which they won’t do because we’d know about it, they make no money from this The opposite, like all champo owners they will haemorrhage money into the club until we go up. When we go up they get to put in less investment if they want. But they still don’t make any money unless they do a glazers and make cash withdrawals from the account The main way they make money is at the end, by selling the club for a profit. That’s the name of the game here. It’s unlikely the Archie sale was motivated by any short term incentive to profiteer because they won’t make any profit from it
This is it, bang on.
Don't get how you jump to the 49ers wanting to make a profit from your take on the article - which I disagree with in part. I've been catching up with all the comments on the threads regarding this and throughout you've been measured but this is wild. This article doesn't change any thinking about the fact the 49ers were basically forced into a corner. If anything, it confirms this was their only out, or we take punishment (which would be fatal to our chances of getting promoted). On the fact he was forced out, I think that's too strong of a word. To me, it reads, Archie didn't want to go and he was gutted about it, but he understood why it was happening and that's why talks were going on provisionally for weeks, and why he spoke to the club after Brentford and told them to reject it for Spurs. It's absolutely gutting it's come to this but the issue is with PSR, not the board or club.
“Though Gray left no doubt he was happy to remain at Leeds and that option was a possibility, there was frustration among those close to Gray about how the situation was handled and the pressure it created. The deal made business sense to Leeds under the circumstances.” This would be the quote on the article in my opinion that backs up the rumours circulating that Archie didn’t want to go but Leeds accepting bids (plus apparently telling they had to sell him and he wasn’t coming back to pre-season), that those close to him (family) get he was getting forced out and didn’t like the pressure. My wariness comes from the being an investment group to start with, then selling the shares to Red Bull, and now doing this. Ultimately yes PSR is forcing their hand. I still think they are driven by profit and not necessarily building up the club. At the moment they both go hand in hand.
I get that, but they were always going to be pissed off. This all comes back to Radz and his stooge Orta, unfortunately. As well as us not getting promoted of course, but a major part of that again lies at their door. This is a very solid business decision and quite frankly their ability to get this sorted, despite the emotion and sentiment surrounding it, actually only makes me believe in them more. I think you can be pissed off at how it's come to this but also realise the board were backed into a corner and the ire of anger should be more appropriately thrown at the stupid PSR rules - that do nothing to protect clubs from going bust or being unsustainable and only serve to benefit those at the top - and the former owners. Your final point, is correct. But they've never said anything outside of that really. Of course they're not going to come out and point blank say, "look, we're here to take this club to the upper levels so we can ultimately earn some money"; clearly it has to be laced with some feeling about the club. But it's been clear from the off they want to make a big return and that means building us up and making us the club we all feel we deserve - I think it's fine to accept that. I get there's some cynicism and I understand you're alluding to the fact those two elements may eventually not marry up but I can't see that happening because success is the only way they're going to achieve that financial goal. That has to be built on solid foundations too. In many ways, that hyperfocused business mind they seem to have looks to only be beneficial for us, off what we've seen so far, whereas an idiot like Radz and Orta who pump their chests, often let their judgements be clouded with emotion. My personal view is, the 49ers ultimately want that monetary gain but do also have respect for the club.
What were the options? Just say no to transfers and put dent immediatly to promotion race well before season starts? We all hate selling Gray, but we have to accept financial reality and rules
Where have I said I question their option to sell Gray here? I’d have preferred they had found another way or sold Summerville sooner but I accept this was done to appease PSR. As stated my wariness comes from other decisions.
>I’d have preferred they had found another way or sold Summerville sooner They tried this but it didn't work out. I think everyone would have preferred this, even the 49ers
Yeah but you did twist it into 49ers wanting to turn a quick profit. There was literally nothing to show that. Everyone wished there were other sales to ensure gray stayed but they had to make the hard call when no offers were made for the others. Didn’t help with the euros timing either
>Yeah but you did twist it into 49ers wanting to turn a quick profit. Where and how I did do that?
I meant Jimbob not you. His 3rd para of his initial comment was what I was commenting on
You can’t sell Summerville if you’re getting lowball offers / no offers at all. If we sold Summerville at potentially half his value we would still have to sell Others (when there were interests but 0 offers for them) to not sell gray. It’s not as easy as saying we should have sold X & Y instead of gray. Clubs must actually offer money for them first.
I literally said I would have preferred they had found another way. They clearly didn’t.
Fucking PSR... I don't quite understand this but from what I've gather, we might have to go through selling our best player again next season even if we get promoted? Heard Leicester is selling Dewsbury-Hall, who was their academy player and best player last season, to Chelsea due to the fucking PSR. I really hope we could liquidate Llorente and Wober. The more money we could earn from them, the more it helps with the books. I doubt Kristensen has any suitors..
Leicester had to sell when they got promoted because they broke PSR rules in the prem when they got relegated. I believe we passed PSR in the prem so wouldn’t have to do that.
>I really hope we could liquidate Llorente and Wober. Seems a bit strong.
Yeah but if you only lightly blend them it will leave bits stuck in the plug hole.
£40m for a player who potentially could be worth £100m or could be worth £1m is brilliant by the club. Makes total sense to get money now and invest it in the team. Yes would be great to have kept Archie but this is what happens to clubs in our position. 2nd tier club with a huge asset, was only a matter of time until he left. You never know we might get him back on loan.
So he agreed a contract with a release clause which was active for as long as we remain in the Championship but really wanted to stay this year? If true, not the wisest move considering it was obvious we would need make sales if we didn't get promoted and the pressure the PSR deadline creates to sell before things have had a chance to play out in the market with all your assets (Summerville, Gnonto).
Although unusual, it’s likely the 49ers negotiated the release clause, knowing that if none of the other big 3 got sold by June 30th, Archie could be ‘sacrificed’. Not a great look for the club. If they actually care about the PR backlash they can’t afford to lose summerville too. Give him the Gnonto treatment if needs must imo.
I don't see it. He held all the cards in the negotiation, he could have just said no. I think his camp were likely miffed at the club and the PSR deadline creating pressure and difficulty choosing the right move for him, hence the Brentford/Spurs flip flopping and not the idea of him leaving full stop. I don't think Gray would have been gutted to stay another season if a good move didn't materialise but I also don't doubt that his camp were planning his fairly immediately future elsewhere unless the club had a stratospheric rise (ironically made pretty impossible by PSR). At the same time, I don't see any evidence that the club have done anything but try and comply with PSR while maxinising the fees we recieve and fielding the best team we can in the immediate future. And Gray's camp could have always dragged their heels until after the PSR deadline. It seems like this is just another example of the realities of modern football and as much as I don't like those, sometimes you just have to accept them rather than looking for villians.
Yeah all reasonable. I don't think there's any guilty parties in this. Just an extremely unusual set of circumstances surrounding a release clause; thought we were don't with them lol
They wouldn’t need a release clause to “sacrifice” him, if anything it weakened their position since they couldn’t bargain for more specially since multiple clubs wanted him.
That just isn't right though, is it? Clubs would know our situation, know we're in the Championship still, see there's no release clause, and lowball us big time - therefore leading to us needing to sell even more players and potentially not sorting the problem. £35 million is an outlandish fee and putting in that release clause protected our asset in the event we stayed down.
With multiple clubs in the hunt to sign Archie, I don’t think lowballing would be an option. They could’ve lowballed us anyways even with the release clause if we were that desperate since the release clause was not the only way to sign him
It really would have been... club offers £20 million, next club offers £20 million with incentives, one after £25 million. He really isn't worth what we got for him, so clubs wouldn't have gone near that price, they'd have just jumped out in the hope we scrambled and panicked at the last minute. The release clause gave us protection and clubs who really desired him knew what they would have to pay. It meant there didn't need to be any nonsense and back and forth at a crucial time for us. A week before - you pay this or you ain't getting him. Day before - okay, we need this money we'll accept £30 million. It sets the marker.
True, very unusual as to why Gray would negotiate it with 0 intention of using it?
I guess this means that even though we’re not strapped for cash, the club thinks 40m could be invested into the club for more immediate impact (Rodon and either keeping Gnonto or signing other players) for promotion than what Gray would offer us.
We should still sell an attacker or two if it means balancing the squad. £40m (£30m after Rodon) won’t do that, with our current squad, if that’s all we have to spend. Would have to be loans…which is fine, of course, if it gets us up!
presented without comment: "Gray made it clear throughout the process that his preference was to remain at Elland Road. At no stage did he ask to move on." "Gray’s younger brother, Harry, is in the Leeds academy — another link between the Gray family and Elland Road — and it was certainly not a case of a player trying to force a move to a club playing at a higher level. Though Gray left no doubt he was happy to remain at Leeds and that option was a possibility, there was frustration among those close to Gray about how the situation was handled and the pressure it created."
It’s easy to frame this as a good deal for all parties, Leeds and Spurs are both happy. Gray was developed by Leeds and now he’s signing a massive contract.
Yes, we know this already. A fucking investment fund cashcow is all we are now.
This is sitting at -6, but it's hardly wrong. 49ers don't care about Leeds United. They saw Archie Gray was worth £40m and grabbed it. It's in line with the RB player trading model, too, which is concerning. The owners will do what is B£$T for L££D$.
How deluded can you be... they only make the money they wanna make if we become a stable European club. Right now, our ambitions match theirs.
I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. This is exactly what we are. 49ers are in this for the profit, make no doubts about it. Like a lot of US investment groups, they've watched Wrexham et al. My predictions: we will get promoted, we will become a top 10 PL side, and challenge for Europe. Red Bull will buy them out for billions, then it's game over once and for all.
The downvotes are obvious. This deal is not for the 49ers to make profit. This is to ensure we LOSE no more than we are allowed to as a business concern. If the 49ers are just in it for the profit as you imply then why not sell every single asset we own and replace them with dross and youth team players to completely slim our wage bill down and actually start turning profit? The best way for them to make anything out of this clubs period would be to make us a success on the pitch by apportioning our funds in a way that keeps us in the rules and maximises our chances for promotion. By all means have a pop at them for not investing if we get to that point.
Second paragraph - bit daft. Goal is to get us promoted, so value of the assets (club and players) is worth more. Third paragraph - see my predictions. Just out of curiosity, have you read what the 49er Enterprises actually are? From the blurb online: 49ers Enterprises is a corporate venture capital arm of The San Francisco 49ers and is based in Santa Clara, California.
Yes exactly. They’d be mad to be in it for profit without aiming for promotion. I’m fine with that tbh. We’re only profitable if we go up and we aren’t going up if they bin off all our best players like our old boards used to.