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If you are incapable of driving safely due to being mindless, you shouldn't be driving. You're a danger to yourself and worse, to other people.
The defense that you may hear about is "undue hardship". This does not apply for needing to drive to or at your job. This is instead what is known as "the consequences of your actions."
Didn't want to reply to OP to pile on. But I'm not sure how anyone goes through a traffic light mindlessly?
If i approach a light and not sure if it's working, it takes me three times as long to figure out what I should do, normally with people beeping me to go.
i woudnt say mindlessly, i was just driving and the lights wasnt visble time was dark little rain, lights wasnt on i did slow down but continued.
there was no other users on the road at the time as it was ike 1am or something.
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That's not true.
You've already got 9 points on your licence.
You've made multiple mistakes.
You've also now proven that you're incapable of driving safely even after receiving multiple fines and points previously.
NAL
> I was just drivinging mindlessly like everyone does
Don't try to use that as a defence, otherwise you run the risk of getting a charge for driving without due care and attention or careless driving.
> red light that wasnt working properly
Can you prove this?
> i need my license for my job
That isn't considered hardship, the punishment is meant to be inconvenient. An extenuating circumstance for hardship, would be you need to drive someone to their chemotherapy appointments and they live in a rural location with no public transport.
Even with proof, the broken traffic light would depend if it's a single crossing or a junction. At a junction, a broken light counts a stop sign and OP only slowed down.
>Don't try to use that as a defence, otherwise you run the risk of getting a charge for driving without due care and attention or careless driving.
Agree that would never be a good idea, but careless driving is summary only so by the time the OP has their trial a new charge for careless driving would be time barred.
Plus, I believe the NIP requirement would also be pertinent even if it were not time barred.
yeah haha not using that as a defece at all but just so you guys know where i am coming from.
gotcha, on the paper is says "Without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for others person using the road or public place in that you did drive through a red traffic signal.
havent used that as a defence but that just what i was doing.
i have pictures of it, but it was just under 24 hours later so i dont know if they would accept it?. Giving that i would never run a red light at all never have so at the time it wasnt working, i dont remember running it at all as i would stop so it has to of not been working, i went back on the same root later and the lights wasnt working, so that would only explain why i went throught it.
I need my car for my mum also, as recently my father and mother have had a rough patch and shes kicked him out and im only one in the family that can drive other than my dad, and also as i said i need it for work as i work with arnold clark.
apppreciate the fast reply !
Your mum can get a taxi, if you lose your job because you can't drive, the court still won't take that into account. If you need your license, don't rack up points.
You'll need to prove the lights weren't working, maybe do a FOI to the council to see if they had to go and perform maintenance in the lights in question.
Fail to comply with traffic sign (for example, red traffic light, stop sign, double white lines, no entry sign) (Road Traffic Act 1988, s.36)
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/offences-appropriate-for-imposition-of-fine-or-discharge/3-offences-appropriate-for-imposition-of-fine-or-discharge/
It's 3 points and a fine.
appreciate the honesty.
my points are all for silly stuff nohting serious is the problem. non speeding charges etc.
i could do a FOI to the council but that will take a while for it to come back will it not? and how do i even go about doing that? just stright up email?
i know what points it gives etc, im looking to find out if theres away around it? is it possible to take a bigger fine over the poitns? less points? etc etc.
You say you've already hired a lawyer, they'll know the specifics of your case and the law better than most people on here, myself included. I don't believe you can get less points, it's 3 points or nothing at all. Your arguement here is the lights are faulty and that you never committed the offence.
FOI request - https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/how-to-make-an-foi-request
You may get a faster response if you call the council and get to the right department to tell you if any works were carried out.
yeah hired a lawyer but just wanted to see what others have thought about it just to calm the old nerves.
i was in court yesterday for the immiediet and the person before me recieved 4 points instead of 6 due to there circumstances, of couse its different for everyone, but it can happen.
gotcha ill give that a go right now, call the local council.
i see i see, i know they are allowed to issue what they want but they have to give it in the legal requirment, ie my friends dodged points but got a bigger fine, i just wonder if i can get the same.
3 points is the minimum, for a red light.
Some offences like driving without due care and attention can be 3-9 points with a fine upto £5k, so there is flexibility between points and fine.
Have you had points for speeding before or for a red light? There is a course for red lights but I doubt you’ll be offered it as points are obviously not a deterrent for you
non for speeding non for red lights, i dont speed and never crossed a red light, except this one as it wasnt working.
points where for insurnace, as it was void and i didnt know, found out the hard way.
Im too scared to ask haha, but i did ask my lawyer this but she said its only a english thing? i dont know it thats true or not. I am in scotland should of mentioned this in the post.
Quick heads up - it looks like you've said that you're in Scotland, so we've updated the post flair to show that. This should mean that any future comments you get are more relevant. If you're *not* in Scotland or your question isn't relevant to Scots law, please report this comment as 'Please remove this AutoModerator comment' and one of the mods will fix it.
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You're too scared to ask!??
You're potentially facing a driving ban and losing your job yet you're too scared to ask if they offer a driving course instead???
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you are incapable of driving safely due to being mindless, you shouldn't be driving. You're a danger to yourself and worse, to other people. The defense that you may hear about is "undue hardship". This does not apply for needing to drive to or at your job. This is instead what is known as "the consequences of your actions."
Didn't want to reply to OP to pile on. But I'm not sure how anyone goes through a traffic light mindlessly? If i approach a light and not sure if it's working, it takes me three times as long to figure out what I should do, normally with people beeping me to go.
i woudnt say mindlessly, i was just driving and the lights wasnt visble time was dark little rain, lights wasnt on i did slow down but continued. there was no other users on the road at the time as it was ike 1am or something.
If it was dark and wet you should have driven *more* carefully, not less.
i was, i was driving the speed limit and doing all i had to. im not a bad driver haha just an unlucky one
Yet in the post you were driving mindlessly?
guess youve never drove mindlessly then.
Nope.
okay haha i appreciate the replys anyways.
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ive been driving for a long time with nothing wrong, one mistake ive made by going through a broken red light. consequences of a mistake is made.
That's not true. You've already got 9 points on your licence. You've made multiple mistakes. You've also now proven that you're incapable of driving safely even after receiving multiple fines and points previously.
Try to keep your story straight. In the original post you had points from multiple offenses. Now it's your first time? Which is it?
i am, i meaning that ive never ran a red light before and never intend to, jsut happens to cross it when it wasnt working and getting done for it.
NAL > I was just drivinging mindlessly like everyone does Don't try to use that as a defence, otherwise you run the risk of getting a charge for driving without due care and attention or careless driving. > red light that wasnt working properly Can you prove this? > i need my license for my job That isn't considered hardship, the punishment is meant to be inconvenient. An extenuating circumstance for hardship, would be you need to drive someone to their chemotherapy appointments and they live in a rural location with no public transport.
Even with proof, the broken traffic light would depend if it's a single crossing or a junction. At a junction, a broken light counts a stop sign and OP only slowed down.
Do you have a source for that under Scottish law?
>Don't try to use that as a defence, otherwise you run the risk of getting a charge for driving without due care and attention or careless driving. Agree that would never be a good idea, but careless driving is summary only so by the time the OP has their trial a new charge for careless driving would be time barred. Plus, I believe the NIP requirement would also be pertinent even if it were not time barred.
yeah haha not using that as a defece at all but just so you guys know where i am coming from. gotcha, on the paper is says "Without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for others person using the road or public place in that you did drive through a red traffic signal.
havent used that as a defence but that just what i was doing. i have pictures of it, but it was just under 24 hours later so i dont know if they would accept it?. Giving that i would never run a red light at all never have so at the time it wasnt working, i dont remember running it at all as i would stop so it has to of not been working, i went back on the same root later and the lights wasnt working, so that would only explain why i went throught it. I need my car for my mum also, as recently my father and mother have had a rough patch and shes kicked him out and im only one in the family that can drive other than my dad, and also as i said i need it for work as i work with arnold clark. apppreciate the fast reply !
Your mum can get a taxi, if you lose your job because you can't drive, the court still won't take that into account. If you need your license, don't rack up points. You'll need to prove the lights weren't working, maybe do a FOI to the council to see if they had to go and perform maintenance in the lights in question. Fail to comply with traffic sign (for example, red traffic light, stop sign, double white lines, no entry sign) (Road Traffic Act 1988, s.36) https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/offences-appropriate-for-imposition-of-fine-or-discharge/3-offences-appropriate-for-imposition-of-fine-or-discharge/ It's 3 points and a fine.
appreciate the honesty. my points are all for silly stuff nohting serious is the problem. non speeding charges etc. i could do a FOI to the council but that will take a while for it to come back will it not? and how do i even go about doing that? just stright up email? i know what points it gives etc, im looking to find out if theres away around it? is it possible to take a bigger fine over the poitns? less points? etc etc.
You say you've already hired a lawyer, they'll know the specifics of your case and the law better than most people on here, myself included. I don't believe you can get less points, it's 3 points or nothing at all. Your arguement here is the lights are faulty and that you never committed the offence. FOI request - https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/how-to-make-an-foi-request You may get a faster response if you call the council and get to the right department to tell you if any works were carried out.
yeah hired a lawyer but just wanted to see what others have thought about it just to calm the old nerves. i was in court yesterday for the immiediet and the person before me recieved 4 points instead of 6 due to there circumstances, of couse its different for everyone, but it can happen. gotcha ill give that a go right now, call the local council.
It depends on the offence, i.e. speeding is 3-6 points, so the judge can issue 3,4 or 6 points. Depending on the band reached, but 3 is the minimum.
i see i see, i know they are allowed to issue what they want but they have to give it in the legal requirment, ie my friends dodged points but got a bigger fine, i just wonder if i can get the same.
3 points is the minimum, for a red light. Some offences like driving without due care and attention can be 3-9 points with a fine upto £5k, so there is flexibility between points and fine.
i see, so theres no luck then? just gotta hope the FOI pull through
Have you had points for speeding before or for a red light? There is a course for red lights but I doubt you’ll be offered it as points are obviously not a deterrent for you
non for speeding non for red lights, i dont speed and never crossed a red light, except this one as it wasnt working. points where for insurnace, as it was void and i didnt know, found out the hard way.
Maximum points for being uninsured is 8. You have 9. So were you caught driving uninsured more than once?
You could ask for the course then, there’s no harm in asking!
Im too scared to ask haha, but i did ask my lawyer this but she said its only a english thing? i dont know it thats true or not. I am in scotland should of mentioned this in the post.
Quick heads up - it looks like you've said that you're in Scotland, so we've updated the post flair to show that. This should mean that any future comments you get are more relevant. If you're *not* in Scotland or your question isn't relevant to Scots law, please report this comment as 'Please remove this AutoModerator comment' and one of the mods will fix it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You're too scared to ask!?? You're potentially facing a driving ban and losing your job yet you're too scared to ask if they offer a driving course instead???
it's Scotland, courses don't exist
Oh I don’t know sorry I did the red light course in England
wish i was in england now haha
Scotland doesn't do driver awareness courses.