I'm of the opinion that it's okay for roguelikes to have extremely difficult content. I really enjoyed eventually clearing ascension 20 on all characters in Slay The Spire, even if I spent most of it getting my butt kicked.
But something about PoC's really difficult content just doesn't work for me. Maybe it's that the deck-building is minimal; decks play almost completely around their champion and their relics, so the general flow of each run is the same and uninteresting. Maybe it's that you are forced to add cards from a selected few to your deck at several points, potentially clogging it with junk when you really just want to draw your champion and some other key pieces, Maybe it's that the combos the AI can pull off can feel overwhelming and as if there wasn't any counterplay offered to me at times. Maybe it's that runs feel heavily dependent on mana cheating items/powers, and not finding those makes many decks too slow to perform in the hardest adventures, especially while the AI cheats out 4 massive, somewhat expensive units at game start and has units that refill their mana cost on play. Maybe it's that I play mostly for the rewards, so when I lose I feel like I've wasted my time, especially with the long animations.
Whatever it is, this isn't working for me either. Seems some people are enjoying it, and I'm happy for them. For me, I'll probably only do the monthlies from now on. I like trying to solve the puzzle of how I'm going to get 70/70 ahead of time and executing it. Peak PoC for me.
Slay the Spire just hits that really great sweet spot for difficulty: where the game never really appears to be impossible, but you still feel like you've earned every single victory. I've won on A20 probably hundreds of times, and yet it still feels great to pull it off.
PoC, on the other hand, is pretty much just a race to do something broken before the AI patterns do it first. Whereas in a weaker StS run I'm slowly getting chipped out, hoping to improve my deck enough to get back on curve, on a similar PoC run I'm just insta-losing the moment something goes slightly wrong.
The result is that PoC usually feels boring when you're winning (you're just stomping everything) and unfair when you're losing. There's almost never an in between.
It makes sense, though, doesn’t it? StS is the grandaddy card roguelike at this point. It’s not exactly true, but everyone points to it as the progenitor of the genre, and PoC falls into that genre, or at least I think so. So it makes sense to compare the balance of the two and see who offers the, subjectively perhaps, better experience for its players. And like the person above me, StS has been far more satisfying for me lately than PoC has.
That’s fair. I may have misunderstood and thought you were saying the comparison wasn’t applicable. Sorry, internet lingo isn’t exactly my strong suit.
The reason why I stopped playing Runeterra is exactly what you described. I love playing card based rougue likes and runeterra should be right up my ally. But because I never feel like the run is any different from the one before it got stale for me really fast.
In slay the spire for example you can have a run with ironclad focused more on powers, on attacks, on shield etc. and because of that every run can feel different. But in PoC I never got that feeling, if I play yasuo I feel like every run is the same, yeah I might have some different powers or cards but at the end of the day, how I approach and clear the run is the same.
It's probably not insignificant that this game was originally designed as a PvP game - I think the devs have probably done a good job retrofitting the foundations to work for the PvE setting, but I have always found PoC to be a bit underwhelming in comparison to games like that.
My issue is not about hard in general- is about many champions have way harder runs on same map than others champions. When modificator basicly counter entire playstyle of specific champions- is not good.
This - half the champs in the game are slow build champs when those adventures your dead in the first few turns if you dont ramp up faster then the AI . Some cheap champs are great at ramping up early ...and then all of a sudden your more or less limited to those champs . Yes the right RNG combo of powers can help any champ win but if you have to sit there and restart 15 times to make a champ viable in the fight they are in ...is that really good game design?
You've basically hit most points I find frustration in. When they announced a shift to PoC I was excited, but apart from adding p2w BS features, Riot has really not done much to balance the game, and change gameplay in general to how roguelikes should be. Slay the Spire, Balatro, even games like Hades or Risk of Rain 2 feel amazing progression during runs. The options you make have much more weight and are much more skill based- rarely does rng make or break a run, it's often a series of bad decision making. Progression in PoC runs feels messy and all over the place
right....like they said new content and we get 1 mission chain nearly impossible for 90% of the champs and even nearly impossible for more then half even if they fill up their new board.
Then another adventure the same that only a few champs can even have a chance at.
because roguelike you can overcome the difficulty with grinding and tactics - this game at many points is PURE RNG . I mean of course there are a FEW champs that not true for and a few that got nice upgrades with higher stars but for the bulk of them its stiill very RNG . The only way you win the hard stuff is by OP RNG combos and pure speed by min /maxing and even then its very RNG based.
Some matchs your just loss because FU then enemy can kill you in 2 turns and you didnt draw the one card in the deck you need in your opening hand to help you . And it dumb stuff like on the boss fights at the end of a journey is even worse
I had a battle today in challenges i think it was in the 60s and it was only a 4 star. But it was Karma as the minboss . On turn 1 she had made herself a 22/7 unit with overwhelm - vs what i was able to pull out i think i had maybe a 4/5 unit in plaly.The modifier on the mission was if any any damage your nexus stongest enemy strike it . She overhwlemed my strongered unit on turn one and did like 15 damage and then the ability kicked in and did 22 more damage .
I was dead before i even got a turn . It took about 5 trys before i was able to draw a unit in my opening handed even using the community guide suggested champ this allowed me take her out when she attacked and survive the first round - 2 round later she pulled the same trick but i was able to do trade.
Much of the new content is deigned to overwhelm you at the start --now i dont mind hard contact this is 5 star stuff - it not meant to be beat by your 3 star champs without extreme difficulty - the problem is even getting champs up to 4/5 starts barely helps . It pushing you toward using super fast out the game champs only or a few champs like ash / yasou that can buy time. But this new swain adventure how you gonna by time when they have 3 buffed units off the bat doing 6 damage a turn to you. Again i understand the design is your going to have units with more regen between fights down the line - or better units...but its taken a limited amount of champs you can use and shrunk it down .
The overwhelming force or Enemy wins by turn 3-5 is just not fun when half the champs are made to be slow build champs.
When the only new content for months has been stuff you can't functionally play without paying out the ass it's hard not to be completely cynical about the future of the game. Unless there's a massive rebalance of 4+ star materials the swain/liss missions might as well not exist for anyone but people with big wallets or masochism streaks.
Even for player like i am- Who not care if some things are beyond paywall in single player- today game cash model is very bad. I not mind spend some money but i cant pay some like thousands to get something noticable (besides champions relic, who are not that impresive in new patch)
Honestly if they would have monetized more when the game was thriving in PvP I woulda thrown a decent chunk of cash at them, I have hundreds of hours into that mode
They basically killed league this year by adding vanguard , suppressed all community outrage by trying to gaslight them saying it's not bricking pcs even though it clearly is. 500 dollar ahri skin, basically desolved the lcs, Game still running on spaghetti code.
Mmo development started from the ground up this year
As for this game fired most of the staff within one year leaving a skeleton crew pvp no longer supported.
Thank God they added that play now button!
The only game not having massive drama is valaront and I personally don't care too much about it.
Okay but op was talking about riot not monetizing the game when pvp was still active which just isn't "classic riot". All their other games are monetized well and make them a lot of money.
Also saying that they killed league is just wrong. Vanguard did not change anything about the player numbers and if you are looking at the sales of the ahri skin you realise that people outside of reddit and twitter really don't care (I'm not saying that that's a good thing).
Regardless of what OP was talking about "classic" anything typically references a trend of multiple instances that lead up to a direct cause. But I guess it's better to give them a pass cause grammar?
If you don't think it did, just wait till next year they will do something big to try to bring back so many players. Maybe they might use arcane to somehow try to rope people back in November not sure.
Also if vanguard didn't do any damage to player numbers why suppress all talk on it online. If it was this amazing program fixing the game they would be glowing about how many players have come back or retention numbers.
"classic" anything is generally used when someone does something that is very typical for them to do. This situation is not typical for riot.
You seem to not understand that most casual players don't give a shit about vanguard. When you go outside of the social media bubble you would realise that a lot of issues that are discussed on social media just don't matter to most people. Most people just saw it as a normal league update and nothing else.
I have seen a lot of talk about vanguard on reddit and twitter so I'm not sure where they would be suppressing anything.
With the money you'd need to spend on LOR to have a balanced game you can buy a ton of great deck builders rogue likes.
Hell, even on mobile there's lots of interesting games like dawncaster or rogue adventure
With the money you'd need to spend on LOR to have a balanced game you can buy a ton of great deck builders rogue likes.
Hell, even on mobile there's lots of interesting games like dawncaster or rogue adventure
I won against Liss after playing the whole day non stop, just cuz of the quest, now i will only play her for fun, the time tick was so brutal i was nervous about it for more than 2 weeks
I don't know why anyone thought Swain would be fun after Lissandra. And honestly, I don't know why anyone expected Lissandra to be fun after Asol.
PoC is buckling under its own weight. It's gotten too big for what it is, and to be blunt it needs another revamp. Whether that's 3.0 or just to become a fully independent game that costs $20 upfront. But of course neither of those can happen, so we're stuck power creeping this game beyond recognition.
Anyone want to take bets on how long it is before we get legendary relics or something to help with Swain?
Asol is fun hard challange for me- Yes, you can get some crazy combo on enemy side (like duplicate Zed) but in end is random, many other options and you also get more power than ever in time of final fight.
Moreover- Asol Map is fair in terms of decks styles- is not like many champions get they entire playstyle useless/way more harder to execute than others. Liss and Swain do that unfair thing.
I agree about rework or change to normal independent game. I doubt second option will ever become true.
Asol is fun, but it's the adventure where the cracks really started to show. It works, but it only *barely* works, and I can't blame anyone who doesn't enjoy it. You can't play it in the same way that you can play all the prior difficulties.
Even when it was released you could tell Asol had a different design philosophy from the adventures before it, with bloated stats and backbreaking node combinations. I don't know how anyone could finish it and then get excited for more difficult adventure paths.
Yeah unfortunately the LoR gameplay systems they have are clearly limiting what they can do. There's a reason why the "slow" gameplay hasn't been fixed yet, or why every patch something isn't working as intended, or why there's a weird delay when Yasuo uses tempest blade and levels up. There is still very little player agency within PoC and it's showing even more on these "hard" adventures that let you do very little to play around their powers/wincon.
For every problem that is in the game, they slapped a band-aid on it with creep or didn't address it. Grinding a pain because there's little to no randomization in encounters? Here's a relic that can skip all of that! Adventure too hard? Try our constellations, which might make the enemy a little easier (and therefore powercreep all future adventures)! Did everything? More adventures with that same 0 randomization! Also, whose decision was it to have *every single champion's* 3-star be a direct upgrade to their 1-star?
The saddest part is that I don't see them straying away from the path they've taken the past few patches. They've given no indication for changes, revamp, or gameplay systems that can help make the gameplay a little more healthy and bring it to the level of a rougelite. They lost too much staff to do so and I don't think they're getting anyone.
I can't speak for others, but I know personally I was much more forgiving of these issues when PoC was the fun side mode. It was really cool to see the cards that you play in PvP get used in entirely different settings. Yeah it always had issues, but the novelty was enough that I could overlook them and have fun.
But now that it's become the main gameplay mode of Runeterra, I find myself being a lot more critical. Stuff like the atrocious UI and the obscenely long animations aren't cute little quirks anymore, they're genuine frustrations that make me not want to play. I can't ignore the lack of run variance out of goodwill.
I want to be sympathetic to the dev's because you know they're trying their best on a shoestring budget, but it's hard to be sympathetic when the shop offers $40-50 bundles of raw power.
YEah I was excited for swain but nope, power creep is real as I expected. I'm not that good at the game and when even the OP aurelion insta win can't get me to even get past jhin after many tries I just give up totally.
I don’t think “creep” is the relevant word. The power of the enemies in PoC has had rocket boosters attached and it’s not even in orbit now. It’s on its way to the nearest other star while I’m slowly climbing a hill.
I'd argue a more fitting word would be "statcheck". Many of these enemies have powers that give them an edge (mana, units, items, actual stats) that results in little counterplay or skill expression. The fights are like 1v1ing a Trundle ghosting; either you have something to stop it, or you don't.
Do you want the new adventures to be easy or hard? If hard, why are you expecting to be beat them on the first day if you said yourself you're not that good at the game? I'm not great at dark souls and it took me weeks to finish that game.
If you'd rather easy adventures, there are plenty already out there, including 3 weeklys that are new every week.
Actually a fair bit of skill in Path of Champions, just look at all the people beating high level adventures with under-powered champs. Also why some people can play lissandra 50 times and lose every run.
Every decision you make from which cards you take, which path, when to use to re-rolls, relic choice is all skill. And that doesn't even take into account your actions in-game.
Just beat Swain first try with lvl 22, 3 star asol, no epic relics, and a common starting power. Also made a few misplays that nearly cost me the final battle. No crazy RNG combos, just playing smart.
https://imgur.com/a/bMOL34m
So you beat it with the most broken champion in the game?????
I was referring to people who beat the hard adventures with 0 star champions
The game is all about rng, stop lying to yourself
The parent comment was complaining he couldn't beat Swain with Asol despite many tries.
The game can be about RNG and skill. I've beaten lissandra with 0 star Diana, no epic relics or legendary powers. Took max 3 attempts.
You know that Asol is stilll most overpower champion in game? (maybe something like full constelation MF with her relic can compare)
I also beat Swain with several champions. Is not about that.
Tbh skill doesn't exist in PoC after the kaisa adventure. That's the ceiling where I realized its more about the powers you get, minimizing bad cards in your deck, and just drawing good.
Dunno, I was playing this in the beta b4 PoC was even born, not my types of games. But in this game using viego or miss fortune is significantly easier than using someone like gnar who has nothing broken powerful super fast in the deck. And this game mode is just aggro Smorc MF or out stat viego at 3 stars+. Everything in the middle will depend on high rolling your second your champ, powers, items, and keeping health high enough so you can cut the inevitably bad cards you'll get out of your deck.
Well yeah the skill expression in this game comes from knowing what powers are good, what events are good, which cards to pick....
You say there is no skill expression, but it's probably because you know the game pretty fcking well. Put you or me besides a new player, you can see there is a certain skill.
Not saying there are no problems in this game of course (constellation prices etc), but idk saying there is no skill is kinda bs, try to tell that to the guy who beat liss with lvl 1 vex.
So is level 1 vex like deck level 1 or does that include having the constellation unlocked? I haven't tried vex yet in PoC, but the deck upgrades outside of the one that gives a revive don't feel like they impact the game very much. Also, what powers did he get? Did he get stuff like " create a fleeting blades edge in hand" or did he get round start rally or some other legendary power up?
It's not necessarily there's no skill expression, I guess the right way to put it, is I feel like I won or lost the game at the loading screen. Some levels like asol that's gonna just summon champions at round start and start 4 mana ahead of you, at 6 mana do they get viego or do they get nasus? Did I start with attack token? And if I did, can I kill whatever they put on the board or beat them in one turn because the longer game goes more I'm at disadvantage. I just wish the actual fights themselves had a bit more skill expression and a lot of less of oh, I high rolled deathless random keyword summon 3 champions rally repeat I win or oh turn 6 viego, can't kill it or them turn one, guess I'm dead.
Idk there was thos big thing that some1 beat her with lvl 1 vex or 0 star vex (pre-buff), dont remember.
The thing about losing before playing is fair, feel like thats zoned out a little in swain tho (always start attack), and replaced with strong shit you know is coming. He doesnt have the same luck stuff as asol or oh liss has strong power, so rip run. But O get what you mean, thz game is less about the actual fights in a sense, which is valid critic.
In lissandra and swain run, your skill at the game matter less than how lucky you are, you can be the best player in the world if you don't get lucky with power and items, you can't beat the run.
You say the skill doesn’t matter, but we have people ramming their heads into Lissandra, losing 50 times, and people beating her with little issue over many champions.
The game does have a knowledge check. Knowing the answers you need and which support champions have those answers in their curated list is the knowledge check that helps people win more often. There is luck involved, but it is not pure RNG.
I beat every adventure with every champion thats just my playstyle. Obviously most of the time I just grind easier adventures it just sucks a bit when a new adventure is not any reasonable difficulty (like galio or asol in my opinion) and instead just exist as power creep so you dump grind and resources into constellations to stand a chance at surviving a turn. Honestly lissandra even is better she is bs but every node has a clear gimmick, swain is just "unit big you lose", its an infinitely more boring design.
I mean yeah it's power crept. Once they introduced constellations that's the way it had to go. And they introduced constellations because they needed to make money.
It blows my mind, lol.
The discussion we are having today is the exact discussion we were having when Aurelion Sol was released, but now people are pointing to Aurelion Sol as the reasonably difficult champion.
It's not a mistake, though we are seeing more and more people point to ASol as the ideal hard.
The reason it feels like the ideal hard is because he is a solved adventure. If someone is having trouble, we as a community can give solutions.
Lissandra does have solutions, but there are more people now and more doorposting, which I think is partly caused by merging the two communities. Then, killing PvP, there are going to be people salty about the death of PvP.
Asol is tough and can overlap to bullshit but each fight doesn't require me to find a solution, just the asol himself and maybe some powers in some contexts but its fine
Lissandra and swain can have solutions sure but they are too hard for me. I am not good enough to do this song and dance every single fight and to face so much bullshit. I just don't like content that is so demanding in general.
Look man I just have my own opinion here and don't particularly care if others share or don't share it. I never played pvp, I like other changes we got in the game recently but this power creep is just not fun at all
My issue with the devs is that they listen to the things they want to listen. Either they are just bad at listening or corporate is screwing them up. Some of their philosophy is out of line and they are too stubborn about it.
I will go with the latter since the recent direction is focus on keeping LOR alive. You know people will spend money if you give them actual value. Gemstones are a waste of time and I rather if it got removed because it barely affects all players once they max out.
Their QoL is mostly mediocre because they are still not keeping tabs on a lot of minor inconveniences. They are aware about some but most of it players have to point it out due to oversight.
Sad to say but not all devs are competent post Riot layoffs. They are trying their best to cover up but if the devs lack experience, they are screwed regardless. Not only players are pissed with them but corporate is pressuring them to do a good job.
It’s absolutely this. They lurk in these threads constantly but won’t answer anything except for teehee light criticism. They ask for feedback and continually do not shit once they get it. It’s exhausting
Pretty much they are doing it for the sake of it. If they were serious, you will see positive changes but right now, they are focusing on p2w model.
They don’t respond to most of our criticism because it might jeopardize the company’s image. As silly as it sounds, they are still under corporate.
I kid you not that if they are still fragile on receiving real criticism, they will lose their job because Riot only cares about results. Some of the criticism are valid in making the game smoother and it is not even an attempt to make it more f2p. Not adhering to certain criticism because it wasn’t worded properly just show how most devs are bad in PR.
Recent devs video give me so zombie vibe- they just read some simple lines someone wrote for them. With no expresions or emotions in voices.
Maybe RIOT is RIOT because they can turn people into zombies xd.
Not all devs have good presentation skill. I am confident the ones I see on video not exactly trained to handle PR stuff.
Lmao, it reminds me of Wotc and some of their designers are just bad in areas outside of design.
One of my problems here is that there is one way to ease your way here: "Turret plating" as long as you can maintin your champ on board.
I actually would be happy if they moved Turret plating to the epic pool and they made it a "+2 HP; Power: Your nexus is tough" instead of what it is and depending on maintaining your champ on the board
My toughts exactly, the "purpose of the relic" is to protect the nexus, but for low cost champs, you have to struggle to maintain them on the board, for high cost champs it's already too late for the nexus once they hit the board, hence it struggles with it's purpose
My thinking is to turn this relic into a tough Bladrack and make an epic for tough Nexus power.
Keeping low-health champions isn't really an issue; it's just how many relics do you want to invest?
And for low-cost champions, you're better off building for a win condition over tough Nexus.
Man I get you. I had so much hope for POC when they first did 2.0
It was infuriating getting duplicate champ shards for the ones you had maxed out. Then they added wild shards, which was good on paper but the conversion rate was absolutely horrendous, not to mention getting a plat chest and only ending up with like 4 wild shards was a kick in the teeth.
Now they have epic items on top of that and even more stupid currencies. I haven't bothered logging on in weeks after checking out the new stuff, turns out nothing in reality has changed
Yeah, the most fun I’ve had in PoC was when my characters were all around 1-2 stars and I had maybe two 3 stars. Getting them upgraded felt possible and fun, the power you would get felt *powerful* anytime you got another star and fighting the adventures was perfect difficulty.
I don’t know what the devs can do though, at a certain point you can’t make something harder other than
- making the player weaker (horrible)
- giving the AI some kind of huge advantage (Asol and Lissandra legendary powers).
(And the fact that cheap aggro decks almost always are better than expensive temp/control decks (like Aatrox)
I agree, the direction of the game mode has gone downhill lately and I feel like the days of PoC being a fun relaxing hobby are just about over. In the Swain adventure, I'm playing champions that I had a tough-but-doable experience with Lissandra - an adventure that already forces you into "no fun allowed" min-max strategies if you want to win - and I basically draft lifesteal or auto-lose before reaching Jhin. The only champ I was able to breeze through it was ASol for obvious reasons.
If the next adventure doesn't nail it like the ASol adventure did in terms of balancing challenge and player enjoyment, I'm done with PoC and definitely not spending any more money on the game. I've had my fun and I'm content to sit back and watch this ship sink.
I like that there is now stuff to grind for and a reason to log in every day/week
the fact that nobody and I mean nobody wanted another lissandra difficult run and they gave us another 5 star adventure instead of 3.5 - 4.5 difficult is what’s mainly concerning for me
I honestly don’t remember 1 comment of people enjoying liss I know one YouTuber that might want more content like liss either way no way is it the majority of players
If you think you should quit, I think you should do what is good for you. I don’t agree with some of these points though. 5 especially stands out to me. I think Viego is one of the stronger 3 star champions in the game. He, Aurelion, and Volibear are the only champions I beat Lisandra with first try as of this date. Swain also feels really strong at 3 stars. I don’t think he has the strongest deck and powers in path but I think he performs a lot better than many of the other champions available. The new champions are anything but weak.
Honestly, I’m a new player and the POC progression has been the most frustrating part for me. It’s taken my forever to even make it to Aurelion Sol and I just beat my first Liss run. But I’ve been playing on and off for months. The new bundles are ridiculously expensive and it feels if I want the cool epic relics I have to pump out $30 each to get them, like I can’t even buy them with stardust from emporium.
Side note: why are the celebration bundles slightly over the $15 coin purchase, that seems a little scummy
PVP is next to dead at the very minimum another month because they barely touched Elder and didn't even scratch his best cards, let alone Hecarim also got a slap on the wrist, and PVE is a dim prospect if the Swain adventure is what we can expect from future adventures being 'Oh yeah, this is practically impossible unless you spend 3 years grinding, or pay us money'
It sad to say but after 4 years of doing dailies almost everyday I have also decided to step away after the constellation system came out. It felt like all my effort just became nothing and it wasn't worth doing things anymore... was a great run though and I wish the best for the people who stick with it.
I also started in the early weeks of the pandemic and stayed with it for 4 years until about 3 weeks ago then stopped cold turkey, deleting it from every device. Like most have said, the f2p was great and POC was a fun distraction that didn't give me ladder anxiety. But, after 3 starring nearly every champ, and grinding every run thru Asol, the fun just stopped. Sure, they added new champs but what's the point when every run forces you down the same relic and deck build pattern? Main champ too pricey....pick cheaper co-champ with some synergy. Fck constellations, I want my time back.
This update made me feel the most discouraged from playing PoC I've ever been - and I've been around since the Lab of Legends where we could play using Hecarim and Lissandra. Planned to buy a bundle to support the game, but will pass on that for now.
Swain adventure is just rubbish. It's set up like any low level adventure, with no extra nodes at the very beginning, and you're immediately plunged into enemies with 4 units at game start. Which is probably my biggest issue with this adventure: it's all the same. What changes is proportions of stuns/spell damage/overwhelm on enemy side. With only common nodes to help you, it's extremely unfun to play. There's a reason it's almost exclusively people who by sheer luck rolled epic and legendary powers that managed to clear that BS challenge without using ASol. It hasn't even been a month and they're already rolling out challenges that scream: 'You should probably get your champs to 6 stars for this one'.
Swain's and Yasuo relic entering the general pool seemed like a nice surprise (especially since we're still waiting for Starforged Gauntlets). Sure, they're pretty weak, but at least... Oh wait, that wasn't intentional and will be hotfixed soon? Nevermind then. Relics in general were shafted hard.
And don't even get me started on monthlies still being a grind through randomly generated encounters. At least we could ignore them when there were no rewards. Unlocking ASol was a decent incentive, but afterwards monthlies were just a slog with a splash of 20 decently fun challenges in the middle. Introducing a smorgasbord of currencies without actually putting them as rewards for monthlies felt like a slap to the face too.
I don't even want to start ranting about constellations, which are an awesome idea on paper, but the dev team managed to sour that experience with a few missteps on top of clearly intentional design choices.
Brother, I'm right there with you. The veigo timed event with liss is extremely annoying because after 50+ runs, I literally can not beat her due to rng. She just wipes me before I can even move. It's not fun. It's straight-up boring and toxic. I'm literally falling asleep at the keyboard while I go through liss' adventure because it comes down to if the enemy gets their wincon or not, not whether or not I can play around a decision. A.sol is genuinely fun because while a run can turn sour quickly, it's the perfect balance of getting stronger over the course of a long-winded adventure and taking the fight to a big menacing threat. Lissandra is just "did ya get the good rng" and (I can't stress this enough) BORING.
I can consistently get to her without an issue, then I pull up to her fight and she just kills me before I can get anything off. It's consistent. I literally can't even play the damn game, even when I enter with full health. It's garbage.
Just reroll spam for vestige of helia and discount get Viego as fast as you can so you can steal their units. It's hard with 3 stars rare relics it took me like 5 hours
Hows that possible early turns tho? She summons so many big units like turn 2 your mists don't scale fast enough to kill them, unless u highroll good mana or something else, mind you this is 3 stars rare relics
You open playing a 1-drop then playing the 'kill an ally, summon a mist' spell on them, preferably summoning an extra unit in the process (since I think all of Veigo's one-drops do that). From there you can use killing an ally to damage an enemy or a second kill ally to summon mists to make your mists 4/4s and discount Viego. Ideally you want Viego to have Stalker's Blade so he kills something on hitting the board to summon another mist and then when that mist strikes and dies viego sees it die and summons another mist which then strikes and dies. From there it's fairly easy to use a combination of self-kill spells and removal to trigger two or three mist summons per turn and they spiral out of control into being 12/12s very fast.
Trifarian Might makes the whole thing faster by both killing your own mists (to trigger Viego summoning more mists when an ally dies) and killing enemy units (to summon mists on killing enemies).
Man, vestige of helia dont come anymore i think i played more than 20 runs today and not i single time i got it, what won for me was the stun 2 units the Remitter gave me
Viego at least have fair with Liss since he not need play many cards in 1 turn- try to beat Liss with Nami, when Liss power counter Nami 3\* totally...
While I appreciate the tip - genuinely, the idea of having to use a guide and play a very certain way is so against the idea the path used to be. It's a very big turn off and extremely boring in my eyes. Tbh, I wouldn't even mind if I could just ignore her adventure, because I have been, and I plan to continue that, but I want that damn diamond chest.
I mean there is a reason why Lissandra is one of the end game adventure. You need to know how to play correctly to beat her. Same for the new swain adventure.
Also if you have tried 50+ time and not beating her, sorry but it is a simply a skill issue on your part. There are so many power that is just an insta win on viego or close to it, and you somehow couldn't capitalized on that for 50 runs then it's a you problem.
i feel the same way i was like this the whole day, i watched the guide and kept losing even without meeting lissandra, but i think i got the hang of it with time and started to constantly... lose to her until the game took pity on me and my strat come up
"I literally can't even play the damn game"
Someone being helpful and suggests a guide.
"It's a very big turn off and extremely boring in my eyes"
So it's too hard but with guidance it's too boring? Then I see other posts in this thread from you saying you used a guide and it didn't help.
I have to ask are you just trolling?
Edit because your deleting comments I'll post a photo to put my comment in context.
Until I can figure out why reddit isn't adding the screenshot we get no photos.
I think maybe you are just bad at this game. I best Lissandra, first try ever, with Viego at 3*, level 28, without an epic relic slot. Literally my first attempt at Lissandra at all. Sorry you’re having a rough time, but it isn’t hard.
I've tried to follow those strats, but again, there is literally 0 counterplay when she has killed me on the first turn before I can legit summon anything. It's horseshit.
I would love you to explain to me how you get killed on the first turn before you can summon anything? That would literally imply she was able to attack and kill you before you even got a turn? She doesn't even start with units on the board, it's legit impossible lmao.
Unless you're trolling and keep a hand full of units you cant play turn 1 lmao
Here's a guide on how to lose turn 1.
Pick up double -2 cost from emitter (you can get a second emitter before lissandra.) alternatively the fearsome power or 3/3 overwhelm could work.
Mulligan for 5+ cost cards in your hand/low hp unit.
Lissandra open herself, 3 thralls, ice shard, and harbringer.
Plop down 3 thralls, lissandra, and harbringer in an order to somehow summon 2-3 thralls (I have no idea what the best possible hand can get her)
Ice shard proc I am inevitable 3 times. She attack directly and you lose because for some reason you set yourself up for this to happen.
Man i was feeling the same, i played today the whole day, and found a solution, get the stun power, and then get the stun epic power from Remitter, then use I Strike 1 unit on Viego as the item (if you have 2 use 2) + Star fragment this will make you kill liss when you are out of enthomb proof
https://preview.redd.it/968kq5j9fv7d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=05ca4fba50d9334c10b49e5fa9d4b29ffaa43554
I finally also did it last night by taking double stalkers blade plus voidborne carapice and high rolled into duplicate + legendary mana flow and took set all units health to 1 so I could remove any threats lissandra would propose. I still find it a bit absurd that's what it took to beat her, but now I can go back to ignoring this content for now and that pleases me.
I do understand how you feel. To me the "3 card" power for Lissandra is what makes it so annoying to play against. She already has really good cards and abilities, did she really need this power? The really restricts as to who can beat her since if you play something like a spellslinger deck (Janna and Nami for example) Liss just shuts down your entire gameplan.
With Swain he does feel more beatble but the fact he summons himself from the deck is stupid, it means he's free to open attack (the ai might be dumb enough to not do it but still a possibility) which really limits the interaction with him.
I think the monetization for the most part is ok but they really need to bundle couple of champs together or at least add some skins to the bundles for value (the Asol skin is a good example). Overall, Riot really need to figure out the proper way to monetize and balance this gamemode because right now it does feel very frustrating.
I really didn't think he was that hard tbh. Just tried my first run on my lunch break now and beat him with 4\* voli.
It was definitely close but wasn't anything outrageously OP.
Even if I were to quit today, I've got more value and fun from Legends of Runeterra than just about any game I've played in my life. Everything ends, it doesn't make the game bad.
In my opinion the Lis adventure (haven't tried Swain yet), is not as fun as the rest of the content. Not because it is hard, but because the Champions and Enemies are so distorted that the underlying card game stops being important. It's all about the powers.
But as long as they keep introducing new champs for me to level, I'll keep playing. And when I move on I will be thankful for a terrific game that has given me years of joy.
There are a lot of whiny people here. Play the game or don’t. It’s fine either way. But don’t lie to yourself and say the game is impossible unless you whale when there are plenty of people who have not spent a dime on the game and are doing just fine.
Is it challenging? Yes. That means you can’t just slap a couple Plunder relics on Jinx and steamroll. You need to put some thought into your build and your plays.
And if you are still on the grind, and the grind isn’t for you, that’s perfectly fine. But don’t blame the grind
I never say game is imposiible- i can beat swain. Allready beaten Liss with many champions even before constelation.
All i say is that FOR ME game become more frustrating than fun. I know Lor will exist without me- single player. But if many players quit... lets say that is not something devs will like.
I like grind. My post is not about it. You cant really grind in this game (not in point when i and many veterans are. Ocasional revard event are short and not repeatable)
Yeah, I read the whole post. You're just venting frustrations instead of playing something else or doing something fun.
If players stop playing their game, the LoR team will understand they're going in the wrong direction. If peeps don't, then they'll just keep doing the same.
For me at the very least, the Swain adventure was super fun; it's just pure bs instead of tactical approach like Lissandra. Way easier than her, but stil fun with tons of powerups.
Another copy paste reply
I am single player, but if many player dislike update to the point when they thinking about quit- devs will like to know that. This subreditt is also for comunication between us and devs. Of course i can speak only about myself, but even this discussion show that i am not only one who feel that way. Is about feadback.
Some madman has already beaten Swain and claimed his rewards, so clearly Swain isn't that hard, lol.
Thanks for letting everyone know you're leaving. You will be missed. Xoxoxo.
Is not about hard to get rewards- i too beat him with 4/5. Not 5 just because i dont like play his map now more.
Is about fair expierience for all champion. When you have map where slower than ''i can deal 100+damage in 1-3 turns) decks cant win without really broken roll power- is not good state of game.
For you last- I am single player, but if many player dislike update to the point when they thinking about quit- devs will like to know that. This subreditt is also for comunication between us and devs. Of course i can speak only about myself, but even this discussion show that i am not only one who thinks that way. If you dont understand that- comunities are not for you.
Literally, all that means is their rng was good. The problem with swain and liss is that there's 0 skill reflection. It's just the game saying "ah, well, you didn't pull the correct powers, get fucked idiot" and that's toxic and boring. You should be able to salvage a run based on skill. I played lissandra today, and she killed me before I could even play a single card or react. That isn't gameplay. It's effectively a cutscene and it's boring.
Asol was hard, now it feels not so hard after Lissandra opened my Eyes to broken powers, i think Asol is VERY strong to a beginner like i was 6 months ago, for me now intermediate account it is good, but still not easy like "i will level up my champs 1 star there"
Some people do just that, lol.
Ever since Aurelion Sol, we have had the same discussion: "This is unreasonably hard!" But now people point to Aurelion Sol and say this is reasonable.
People do say I am just lucky, but I win most of the time when doing a Lissandra run, and I'm sure I'll hit some hurdles with Swain before I learn what's needed.
Honestly luck is a small factor to how often one should win.
No, I find a.sol to be a good challenge. Because he feels fucking realistic. I can mess up in a run and it feels like just that, I messed up. In liss, it feels like the game is literally just deciding I'm not going to win, and it's garbage.
>The problem with swain and liss is that there's 0 skill reflection
[Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect).
Things I am good enough to beat are balanced and fun. Things I am not good enough to beat are unbalanced and not fun and rng and no skill
So when I pull up to the lissandra fight and kills me before i can literally play the game... that's a skill issue? Interesting. I guess the definition of skill has changed. Maybe I should've reached into the game and slapped her before she can act.
If you die to Lissandra before playing a card, your deck is bad. Also that's hard: She can't get 40 damage on turn 1. So you died on turn 2? without playing any cards?
So you're saying that the game gave me bad cards. Which mean it would be rng. Because I'm sure after 2 years of drafting decks, I can distinguish what a good and bad deck is. Unless of course on the other hand, we're saying I have to play a very specific, one tracked way of play, which is also extremely boring and toxic. Either way it's garbage game design, truly. I want you to think about a fighting game or dark souls. When you die in dark souls, it is 99.9% of the time your fault. And that feels good. In a fighting game, it's 100% of the time your fault. There is skill. When playing a card game where there's an obstacle put in front of you, that's dependent on pulling a strategy, it's more likely it's the games fault rather than how you played. A.sol feels good because it feels like when I lose, I could've prevented it. With liss I've literally had numerous runs where the game just gives me poor options the entire time and there's 0 room to breathe. I can admit to fault in some scenarios, but when over half of my deaths have felt like I played right, but the game didn't think it was good enough and just kills me before I can realistically act, it feels fucking bad.
>So you're saying that the game gave me bad cards
No, I am saying you picked bad cards
You have a low winrate. Other people don't. You don't understand why you have a low winrate. [You have decided that means there is no skill.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
I can't tell you what you're doing wrong because you're not showing anything. If you record a video of yourself playing, we can give advice. Guides are repeatable and easy.
Oh, I understand very well why I have a low win rate. Because other people, yourself included, have barely passed because the rng was in your favor, you decided that it's not that big of a deal, and everyone else should be able to roll the run you or others got to win. But that's just not how it works. Because there's a guide proving it's possible, it means that there's no objective flaws with the style of play that inhibits those guides to be functional. I'm not saying there's absolutely no way to beat her, I'm saying that the ways to beat her is boring and completely against what path was fun for in the first place. I'm just critiquing a game that I've loved for the past 2 years because this fight just feels bad. I've talked to several different people who feel the exact same way, even if they have beaten it.
•looks at previous posts
You have lost 50 runs against lissandra and blame bad rng and say people that win first or second run just had good rng?
After 50 runs its less about rng and more about the choices you made.
This has been my experience since asols release I lose the first fight then I rarely loose afterwards.
Same with lissandra I lost my first run and won the next 5.
But then I guess I high roll everything to cover how bad I am.
I am one of these mad men that have beaten swain and I dare you to shut the fk up man.
This adventure is beatable, beatable by bringing the most cheesy gameplans to avoid enemy interactions completely.
It works but it doesn't resemble fun or interactive gameplay whatsoever.
It's a matter of abusing broken mechanics, relics, picking up decent powers in a run and have bot the enemy highroll on you.
It's hard, it removes half of even the stronger champions from viability and overall feels like challenge for challenge sake.
If I wasn't a limit testing player, i would hate this and even if it should be for me it's really not that fun.
I copy paste my reply to similar coment:
I am single player, but if many player dislike update to the point when they thinking about quit- devs will like to know that. This subreditt is also for comunication between us and devs. Of course i can speak only about myself, but even this discussion show that i am not only one who things that way. Is not about drama, is feadback
I'm of the opinion that it's okay for roguelikes to have extremely difficult content. I really enjoyed eventually clearing ascension 20 on all characters in Slay The Spire, even if I spent most of it getting my butt kicked. But something about PoC's really difficult content just doesn't work for me. Maybe it's that the deck-building is minimal; decks play almost completely around their champion and their relics, so the general flow of each run is the same and uninteresting. Maybe it's that you are forced to add cards from a selected few to your deck at several points, potentially clogging it with junk when you really just want to draw your champion and some other key pieces, Maybe it's that the combos the AI can pull off can feel overwhelming and as if there wasn't any counterplay offered to me at times. Maybe it's that runs feel heavily dependent on mana cheating items/powers, and not finding those makes many decks too slow to perform in the hardest adventures, especially while the AI cheats out 4 massive, somewhat expensive units at game start and has units that refill their mana cost on play. Maybe it's that I play mostly for the rewards, so when I lose I feel like I've wasted my time, especially with the long animations. Whatever it is, this isn't working for me either. Seems some people are enjoying it, and I'm happy for them. For me, I'll probably only do the monthlies from now on. I like trying to solve the puzzle of how I'm going to get 70/70 ahead of time and executing it. Peak PoC for me.
Slay the Spire just hits that really great sweet spot for difficulty: where the game never really appears to be impossible, but you still feel like you've earned every single victory. I've won on A20 probably hundreds of times, and yet it still feels great to pull it off. PoC, on the other hand, is pretty much just a race to do something broken before the AI patterns do it first. Whereas in a weaker StS run I'm slowly getting chipped out, hoping to improve my deck enough to get back on curve, on a similar PoC run I'm just insta-losing the moment something goes slightly wrong. The result is that PoC usually feels boring when you're winning (you're just stomping everything) and unfair when you're losing. There's almost never an in between.
Comparing the garbage game balance of PoC to Slay The Spire of all things is absolutely wild.
It makes sense, though, doesn’t it? StS is the grandaddy card roguelike at this point. It’s not exactly true, but everyone points to it as the progenitor of the genre, and PoC falls into that genre, or at least I think so. So it makes sense to compare the balance of the two and see who offers the, subjectively perhaps, better experience for its players. And like the person above me, StS has been far more satisfying for me lately than PoC has.
Yeah, that was my whole point. But we're comparing DeviantArt OC drawings to the Sistine Chapel. Or something less hyperbolic, anyway.
That’s fair. I may have misunderstood and thought you were saying the comparison wasn’t applicable. Sorry, internet lingo isn’t exactly my strong suit.
Nope. You did fantastic. I just left out a lot to interpretation and you raised a lot of great points. Nothing to be sorry about. At all.
Thanks for your patience. I hope you have an excellent night!
The reason why I stopped playing Runeterra is exactly what you described. I love playing card based rougue likes and runeterra should be right up my ally. But because I never feel like the run is any different from the one before it got stale for me really fast. In slay the spire for example you can have a run with ironclad focused more on powers, on attacks, on shield etc. and because of that every run can feel different. But in PoC I never got that feeling, if I play yasuo I feel like every run is the same, yeah I might have some different powers or cards but at the end of the day, how I approach and clear the run is the same.
It's probably not insignificant that this game was originally designed as a PvP game - I think the devs have probably done a good job retrofitting the foundations to work for the PvE setting, but I have always found PoC to be a bit underwhelming in comparison to games like that.
My issue is not about hard in general- is about many champions have way harder runs on same map than others champions. When modificator basicly counter entire playstyle of specific champions- is not good.
That's definitely a thing in Lissandra and Swain's adventures. I'm not a fan of it either.
This - half the champs in the game are slow build champs when those adventures your dead in the first few turns if you dont ramp up faster then the AI . Some cheap champs are great at ramping up early ...and then all of a sudden your more or less limited to those champs . Yes the right RNG combo of powers can help any champ win but if you have to sit there and restart 15 times to make a champ viable in the fight they are in ...is that really good game design?
Yeah, i thought i could beat It with Lillia only to find out everytime the enemy sleeps they become greater...🤣
You've basically hit most points I find frustration in. When they announced a shift to PoC I was excited, but apart from adding p2w BS features, Riot has really not done much to balance the game, and change gameplay in general to how roguelikes should be. Slay the Spire, Balatro, even games like Hades or Risk of Rain 2 feel amazing progression during runs. The options you make have much more weight and are much more skill based- rarely does rng make or break a run, it's often a series of bad decision making. Progression in PoC runs feels messy and all over the place
right....like they said new content and we get 1 mission chain nearly impossible for 90% of the champs and even nearly impossible for more then half even if they fill up their new board. Then another adventure the same that only a few champs can even have a chance at.
because roguelike you can overcome the difficulty with grinding and tactics - this game at many points is PURE RNG . I mean of course there are a FEW champs that not true for and a few that got nice upgrades with higher stars but for the bulk of them its stiill very RNG . The only way you win the hard stuff is by OP RNG combos and pure speed by min /maxing and even then its very RNG based. Some matchs your just loss because FU then enemy can kill you in 2 turns and you didnt draw the one card in the deck you need in your opening hand to help you . And it dumb stuff like on the boss fights at the end of a journey is even worse I had a battle today in challenges i think it was in the 60s and it was only a 4 star. But it was Karma as the minboss . On turn 1 she had made herself a 22/7 unit with overwhelm - vs what i was able to pull out i think i had maybe a 4/5 unit in plaly.The modifier on the mission was if any any damage your nexus stongest enemy strike it . She overhwlemed my strongered unit on turn one and did like 15 damage and then the ability kicked in and did 22 more damage . I was dead before i even got a turn . It took about 5 trys before i was able to draw a unit in my opening handed even using the community guide suggested champ this allowed me take her out when she attacked and survive the first round - 2 round later she pulled the same trick but i was able to do trade. Much of the new content is deigned to overwhelm you at the start --now i dont mind hard contact this is 5 star stuff - it not meant to be beat by your 3 star champs without extreme difficulty - the problem is even getting champs up to 4/5 starts barely helps . It pushing you toward using super fast out the game champs only or a few champs like ash / yasou that can buy time. But this new swain adventure how you gonna by time when they have 3 buffed units off the bat doing 6 damage a turn to you. Again i understand the design is your going to have units with more regen between fights down the line - or better units...but its taken a limited amount of champs you can use and shrunk it down . The overwhelming force or Enemy wins by turn 3-5 is just not fun when half the champs are made to be slow build champs.
When the only new content for months has been stuff you can't functionally play without paying out the ass it's hard not to be completely cynical about the future of the game. Unless there's a massive rebalance of 4+ star materials the swain/liss missions might as well not exist for anyone but people with big wallets or masochism streaks.
Even for player like i am- Who not care if some things are beyond paywall in single player- today game cash model is very bad. I not mind spend some money but i cant pay some like thousands to get something noticable (besides champions relic, who are not that impresive in new patch)
Honestly if they would have monetized more when the game was thriving in PvP I woulda thrown a decent chunk of cash at them, I have hundreds of hours into that mode
Yup classic riot
Is it really "classic riot"? From what I see they haven't made that mistake on any of their other games.
They basically killed league this year by adding vanguard , suppressed all community outrage by trying to gaslight them saying it's not bricking pcs even though it clearly is. 500 dollar ahri skin, basically desolved the lcs, Game still running on spaghetti code. Mmo development started from the ground up this year As for this game fired most of the staff within one year leaving a skeleton crew pvp no longer supported. Thank God they added that play now button! The only game not having massive drama is valaront and I personally don't care too much about it.
Okay but op was talking about riot not monetizing the game when pvp was still active which just isn't "classic riot". All their other games are monetized well and make them a lot of money. Also saying that they killed league is just wrong. Vanguard did not change anything about the player numbers and if you are looking at the sales of the ahri skin you realise that people outside of reddit and twitter really don't care (I'm not saying that that's a good thing).
Regardless of what OP was talking about "classic" anything typically references a trend of multiple instances that lead up to a direct cause. But I guess it's better to give them a pass cause grammar? If you don't think it did, just wait till next year they will do something big to try to bring back so many players. Maybe they might use arcane to somehow try to rope people back in November not sure. Also if vanguard didn't do any damage to player numbers why suppress all talk on it online. If it was this amazing program fixing the game they would be glowing about how many players have come back or retention numbers.
"classic" anything is generally used when someone does something that is very typical for them to do. This situation is not typical for riot. You seem to not understand that most casual players don't give a shit about vanguard. When you go outside of the social media bubble you would realise that a lot of issues that are discussed on social media just don't matter to most people. Most people just saw it as a normal league update and nothing else. I have seen a lot of talk about vanguard on reddit and twitter so I'm not sure where they would be suppressing anything.
With the money you'd need to spend on LOR to have a balanced game you can buy a ton of great deck builders rogue likes. Hell, even on mobile there's lots of interesting games like dawncaster or rogue adventure
With the money you'd need to spend on LOR to have a balanced game you can buy a ton of great deck builders rogue likes. Hell, even on mobile there's lots of interesting games like dawncaster or rogue adventure
I won against Liss after playing the whole day non stop, just cuz of the quest, now i will only play her for fun, the time tick was so brutal i was nervous about it for more than 2 weeks
I don't know why anyone thought Swain would be fun after Lissandra. And honestly, I don't know why anyone expected Lissandra to be fun after Asol. PoC is buckling under its own weight. It's gotten too big for what it is, and to be blunt it needs another revamp. Whether that's 3.0 or just to become a fully independent game that costs $20 upfront. But of course neither of those can happen, so we're stuck power creeping this game beyond recognition. Anyone want to take bets on how long it is before we get legendary relics or something to help with Swain?
Asol is fun hard challange for me- Yes, you can get some crazy combo on enemy side (like duplicate Zed) but in end is random, many other options and you also get more power than ever in time of final fight. Moreover- Asol Map is fair in terms of decks styles- is not like many champions get they entire playstyle useless/way more harder to execute than others. Liss and Swain do that unfair thing. I agree about rework or change to normal independent game. I doubt second option will ever become true.
Asol is fun, but it's the adventure where the cracks really started to show. It works, but it only *barely* works, and I can't blame anyone who doesn't enjoy it. You can't play it in the same way that you can play all the prior difficulties. Even when it was released you could tell Asol had a different design philosophy from the adventures before it, with bloated stats and backbreaking node combinations. I don't know how anyone could finish it and then get excited for more difficult adventure paths.
I love asol, amazing design to me. Besides the rng on +1/+1 asol is a free win, manaflow is a nightmare.
Yeah unfortunately the LoR gameplay systems they have are clearly limiting what they can do. There's a reason why the "slow" gameplay hasn't been fixed yet, or why every patch something isn't working as intended, or why there's a weird delay when Yasuo uses tempest blade and levels up. There is still very little player agency within PoC and it's showing even more on these "hard" adventures that let you do very little to play around their powers/wincon. For every problem that is in the game, they slapped a band-aid on it with creep or didn't address it. Grinding a pain because there's little to no randomization in encounters? Here's a relic that can skip all of that! Adventure too hard? Try our constellations, which might make the enemy a little easier (and therefore powercreep all future adventures)! Did everything? More adventures with that same 0 randomization! Also, whose decision was it to have *every single champion's* 3-star be a direct upgrade to their 1-star? The saddest part is that I don't see them straying away from the path they've taken the past few patches. They've given no indication for changes, revamp, or gameplay systems that can help make the gameplay a little more healthy and bring it to the level of a rougelite. They lost too much staff to do so and I don't think they're getting anyone.
I can't speak for others, but I know personally I was much more forgiving of these issues when PoC was the fun side mode. It was really cool to see the cards that you play in PvP get used in entirely different settings. Yeah it always had issues, but the novelty was enough that I could overlook them and have fun. But now that it's become the main gameplay mode of Runeterra, I find myself being a lot more critical. Stuff like the atrocious UI and the obscenely long animations aren't cute little quirks anymore, they're genuine frustrations that make me not want to play. I can't ignore the lack of run variance out of goodwill. I want to be sympathetic to the dev's because you know they're trying their best on a shoestring budget, but it's hard to be sympathetic when the shop offers $40-50 bundles of raw power.
YEah I was excited for swain but nope, power creep is real as I expected. I'm not that good at the game and when even the OP aurelion insta win can't get me to even get past jhin after many tries I just give up totally.
I don’t think “creep” is the relevant word. The power of the enemies in PoC has had rocket boosters attached and it’s not even in orbit now. It’s on its way to the nearest other star while I’m slowly climbing a hill.
I'd argue a more fitting word would be "statcheck". Many of these enemies have powers that give them an edge (mana, units, items, actual stats) that results in little counterplay or skill expression. The fights are like 1v1ing a Trundle ghosting; either you have something to stop it, or you don't.
Do you want the new adventures to be easy or hard? If hard, why are you expecting to be beat them on the first day if you said yourself you're not that good at the game? I'm not great at dark souls and it took me weeks to finish that game. If you'd rather easy adventures, there are plenty already out there, including 3 weeklys that are new every week.
You can't compare this shit to dark souls , skill doesn't exist in this Swain adventure.
Actually a fair bit of skill in Path of Champions, just look at all the people beating high level adventures with under-powered champs. Also why some people can play lissandra 50 times and lose every run. Every decision you make from which cards you take, which path, when to use to re-rolls, relic choice is all skill. And that doesn't even take into account your actions in-game.
It dosent take skill it takes multiple tries under rng and broken epic relics
Just beat Swain first try with lvl 22, 3 star asol, no epic relics, and a common starting power. Also made a few misplays that nearly cost me the final battle. No crazy RNG combos, just playing smart. https://imgur.com/a/bMOL34m
So you beat it with the most broken champion in the game????? I was referring to people who beat the hard adventures with 0 star champions The game is all about rng, stop lying to yourself
The parent comment was complaining he couldn't beat Swain with Asol despite many tries. The game can be about RNG and skill. I've beaten lissandra with 0 star Diana, no epic relics or legendary powers. Took max 3 attempts.
You know that Asol is stilll most overpower champion in game? (maybe something like full constelation MF with her relic can compare) I also beat Swain with several champions. Is not about that.
Tbh skill doesn't exist in PoC after the kaisa adventure. That's the ceiling where I realized its more about the powers you get, minimizing bad cards in your deck, and just drawing good.
Then skill just doesnt exist in rogue-like deckbuilders according to you?
Dunno, I was playing this in the beta b4 PoC was even born, not my types of games. But in this game using viego or miss fortune is significantly easier than using someone like gnar who has nothing broken powerful super fast in the deck. And this game mode is just aggro Smorc MF or out stat viego at 3 stars+. Everything in the middle will depend on high rolling your second your champ, powers, items, and keeping health high enough so you can cut the inevitably bad cards you'll get out of your deck.
Well yeah the skill expression in this game comes from knowing what powers are good, what events are good, which cards to pick.... You say there is no skill expression, but it's probably because you know the game pretty fcking well. Put you or me besides a new player, you can see there is a certain skill. Not saying there are no problems in this game of course (constellation prices etc), but idk saying there is no skill is kinda bs, try to tell that to the guy who beat liss with lvl 1 vex.
So is level 1 vex like deck level 1 or does that include having the constellation unlocked? I haven't tried vex yet in PoC, but the deck upgrades outside of the one that gives a revive don't feel like they impact the game very much. Also, what powers did he get? Did he get stuff like " create a fleeting blades edge in hand" or did he get round start rally or some other legendary power up? It's not necessarily there's no skill expression, I guess the right way to put it, is I feel like I won or lost the game at the loading screen. Some levels like asol that's gonna just summon champions at round start and start 4 mana ahead of you, at 6 mana do they get viego or do they get nasus? Did I start with attack token? And if I did, can I kill whatever they put on the board or beat them in one turn because the longer game goes more I'm at disadvantage. I just wish the actual fights themselves had a bit more skill expression and a lot of less of oh, I high rolled deathless random keyword summon 3 champions rally repeat I win or oh turn 6 viego, can't kill it or them turn one, guess I'm dead.
Idk there was thos big thing that some1 beat her with lvl 1 vex or 0 star vex (pre-buff), dont remember. The thing about losing before playing is fair, feel like thats zoned out a little in swain tho (always start attack), and replaced with strong shit you know is coming. He doesnt have the same luck stuff as asol or oh liss has strong power, so rip run. But O get what you mean, thz game is less about the actual fights in a sense, which is valid critic.
In lissandra and swain run, your skill at the game matter less than how lucky you are, you can be the best player in the world if you don't get lucky with power and items, you can't beat the run.
You say the skill doesn’t matter, but we have people ramming their heads into Lissandra, losing 50 times, and people beating her with little issue over many champions. The game does have a knowledge check. Knowing the answers you need and which support champions have those answers in their curated list is the knowledge check that helps people win more often. There is luck involved, but it is not pure RNG.
I beat every adventure with every champion thats just my playstyle. Obviously most of the time I just grind easier adventures it just sucks a bit when a new adventure is not any reasonable difficulty (like galio or asol in my opinion) and instead just exist as power creep so you dump grind and resources into constellations to stand a chance at surviving a turn. Honestly lissandra even is better she is bs but every node has a clear gimmick, swain is just "unit big you lose", its an infinitely more boring design.
I mean yeah it's power crept. Once they introduced constellations that's the way it had to go. And they introduced constellations because they needed to make money.
It blows my mind, lol. The discussion we are having today is the exact discussion we were having when Aurelion Sol was released, but now people are pointing to Aurelion Sol as the reasonably difficult champion.
That was probably mistake on my part, galio is more reasonable, asol is like 50/50 depending on what power he gets.
It's not a mistake, though we are seeing more and more people point to ASol as the ideal hard. The reason it feels like the ideal hard is because he is a solved adventure. If someone is having trouble, we as a community can give solutions. Lissandra does have solutions, but there are more people now and more doorposting, which I think is partly caused by merging the two communities. Then, killing PvP, there are going to be people salty about the death of PvP.
Asol is tough and can overlap to bullshit but each fight doesn't require me to find a solution, just the asol himself and maybe some powers in some contexts but its fine Lissandra and swain can have solutions sure but they are too hard for me. I am not good enough to do this song and dance every single fight and to face so much bullshit. I just don't like content that is so demanding in general. Look man I just have my own opinion here and don't particularly care if others share or don't share it. I never played pvp, I like other changes we got in the game recently but this power creep is just not fun at all
That's a fair take.
My issue with the devs is that they listen to the things they want to listen. Either they are just bad at listening or corporate is screwing them up. Some of their philosophy is out of line and they are too stubborn about it. I will go with the latter since the recent direction is focus on keeping LOR alive. You know people will spend money if you give them actual value. Gemstones are a waste of time and I rather if it got removed because it barely affects all players once they max out. Their QoL is mostly mediocre because they are still not keeping tabs on a lot of minor inconveniences. They are aware about some but most of it players have to point it out due to oversight. Sad to say but not all devs are competent post Riot layoffs. They are trying their best to cover up but if the devs lack experience, they are screwed regardless. Not only players are pissed with them but corporate is pressuring them to do a good job.
It’s absolutely this. They lurk in these threads constantly but won’t answer anything except for teehee light criticism. They ask for feedback and continually do not shit once they get it. It’s exhausting
Pretty much they are doing it for the sake of it. If they were serious, you will see positive changes but right now, they are focusing on p2w model. They don’t respond to most of our criticism because it might jeopardize the company’s image. As silly as it sounds, they are still under corporate. I kid you not that if they are still fragile on receiving real criticism, they will lose their job because Riot only cares about results. Some of the criticism are valid in making the game smoother and it is not even an attempt to make it more f2p. Not adhering to certain criticism because it wasn’t worded properly just show how most devs are bad in PR.
Recent devs video give me so zombie vibe- they just read some simple lines someone wrote for them. With no expresions or emotions in voices. Maybe RIOT is RIOT because they can turn people into zombies xd.
Not all devs have good presentation skill. I am confident the ones I see on video not exactly trained to handle PR stuff. Lmao, it reminds me of Wotc and some of their designers are just bad in areas outside of design.
One of my problems here is that there is one way to ease your way here: "Turret plating" as long as you can maintin your champ on board. I actually would be happy if they moved Turret plating to the epic pool and they made it a "+2 HP; Power: Your nexus is tough" instead of what it is and depending on maintaining your champ on the board
I'll agree with this turret plating just isn't fit for purpose. The champions you want it on the most don't hit the board for a few turns.
My toughts exactly, the "purpose of the relic" is to protect the nexus, but for low cost champs, you have to struggle to maintain them on the board, for high cost champs it's already too late for the nexus once they hit the board, hence it struggles with it's purpose
My thinking is to turn this relic into a tough Bladrack and make an epic for tough Nexus power. Keeping low-health champions isn't really an issue; it's just how many relics do you want to invest? And for low-cost champions, you're better off building for a win condition over tough Nexus.
Man I get you. I had so much hope for POC when they first did 2.0 It was infuriating getting duplicate champ shards for the ones you had maxed out. Then they added wild shards, which was good on paper but the conversion rate was absolutely horrendous, not to mention getting a plat chest and only ending up with like 4 wild shards was a kick in the teeth. Now they have epic items on top of that and even more stupid currencies. I haven't bothered logging on in weeks after checking out the new stuff, turns out nothing in reality has changed
After playing wild rift I realise the company is just money hungry, on that it costs £70 for some skins and probably more for some others it’s mental.
It wasn't always this way either :(
Was looking forwards to the MMO the company mentioned they are working on but I can’t afford it and it’s not even out yet lol
I mean epic relics are very easy to get, especially with all the new rewards
Yeah, the most fun I’ve had in PoC was when my characters were all around 1-2 stars and I had maybe two 3 stars. Getting them upgraded felt possible and fun, the power you would get felt *powerful* anytime you got another star and fighting the adventures was perfect difficulty. I don’t know what the devs can do though, at a certain point you can’t make something harder other than - making the player weaker (horrible) - giving the AI some kind of huge advantage (Asol and Lissandra legendary powers). (And the fact that cheap aggro decks almost always are better than expensive temp/control decks (like Aatrox)
I think we need more adventures on Galio and Asol level and style- more options, not unfair for many champions. Can be hard and fun.
I agree, the direction of the game mode has gone downhill lately and I feel like the days of PoC being a fun relaxing hobby are just about over. In the Swain adventure, I'm playing champions that I had a tough-but-doable experience with Lissandra - an adventure that already forces you into "no fun allowed" min-max strategies if you want to win - and I basically draft lifesteal or auto-lose before reaching Jhin. The only champ I was able to breeze through it was ASol for obvious reasons. If the next adventure doesn't nail it like the ASol adventure did in terms of balancing challenge and player enjoyment, I'm done with PoC and definitely not spending any more money on the game. I've had my fun and I'm content to sit back and watch this ship sink.
I like that there is now stuff to grind for and a reason to log in every day/week the fact that nobody and I mean nobody wanted another lissandra difficult run and they gave us another 5 star adventure instead of 3.5 - 4.5 difficult is what’s mainly concerning for me
Besides the people that do want harder content.
I honestly don’t remember 1 comment of people enjoying liss I know one YouTuber that might want more content like liss either way no way is it the majority of players
Clearly ignoring the comments calling for harder content or better yet scalable content.
I mean I guess I missed them all if that’s the case
If you think you should quit, I think you should do what is good for you. I don’t agree with some of these points though. 5 especially stands out to me. I think Viego is one of the stronger 3 star champions in the game. He, Aurelion, and Volibear are the only champions I beat Lisandra with first try as of this date. Swain also feels really strong at 3 stars. I don’t think he has the strongest deck and powers in path but I think he performs a lot better than many of the other champions available. The new champions are anything but weak.
Swain absolutely feels strong. Your skills can do a dumb about of damage very fast.
Honestly, I’m a new player and the POC progression has been the most frustrating part for me. It’s taken my forever to even make it to Aurelion Sol and I just beat my first Liss run. But I’ve been playing on and off for months. The new bundles are ridiculously expensive and it feels if I want the cool epic relics I have to pump out $30 each to get them, like I can’t even buy them with stardust from emporium. Side note: why are the celebration bundles slightly over the $15 coin purchase, that seems a little scummy
True! Liss and Swain are just BORING!
They are so easy, it's boring, I guess.
PVP is next to dead at the very minimum another month because they barely touched Elder and didn't even scratch his best cards, let alone Hecarim also got a slap on the wrist, and PVE is a dim prospect if the Swain adventure is what we can expect from future adventures being 'Oh yeah, this is practically impossible unless you spend 3 years grinding, or pay us money'
It sad to say but after 4 years of doing dailies almost everyday I have also decided to step away after the constellation system came out. It felt like all my effort just became nothing and it wasn't worth doing things anymore... was a great run though and I wish the best for the people who stick with it.
I also started in the early weeks of the pandemic and stayed with it for 4 years until about 3 weeks ago then stopped cold turkey, deleting it from every device. Like most have said, the f2p was great and POC was a fun distraction that didn't give me ladder anxiety. But, after 3 starring nearly every champ, and grinding every run thru Asol, the fun just stopped. Sure, they added new champs but what's the point when every run forces you down the same relic and deck build pattern? Main champ too pricey....pick cheaper co-champ with some synergy. Fck constellations, I want my time back.
This update made me feel the most discouraged from playing PoC I've ever been - and I've been around since the Lab of Legends where we could play using Hecarim and Lissandra. Planned to buy a bundle to support the game, but will pass on that for now. Swain adventure is just rubbish. It's set up like any low level adventure, with no extra nodes at the very beginning, and you're immediately plunged into enemies with 4 units at game start. Which is probably my biggest issue with this adventure: it's all the same. What changes is proportions of stuns/spell damage/overwhelm on enemy side. With only common nodes to help you, it's extremely unfun to play. There's a reason it's almost exclusively people who by sheer luck rolled epic and legendary powers that managed to clear that BS challenge without using ASol. It hasn't even been a month and they're already rolling out challenges that scream: 'You should probably get your champs to 6 stars for this one'. Swain's and Yasuo relic entering the general pool seemed like a nice surprise (especially since we're still waiting for Starforged Gauntlets). Sure, they're pretty weak, but at least... Oh wait, that wasn't intentional and will be hotfixed soon? Nevermind then. Relics in general were shafted hard. And don't even get me started on monthlies still being a grind through randomly generated encounters. At least we could ignore them when there were no rewards. Unlocking ASol was a decent incentive, but afterwards monthlies were just a slog with a splash of 20 decently fun challenges in the middle. Introducing a smorgasbord of currencies without actually putting them as rewards for monthlies felt like a slap to the face too. I don't even want to start ranting about constellations, which are an awesome idea on paper, but the dev team managed to sour that experience with a few missteps on top of clearly intentional design choices.
Brother, I'm right there with you. The veigo timed event with liss is extremely annoying because after 50+ runs, I literally can not beat her due to rng. She just wipes me before I can even move. It's not fun. It's straight-up boring and toxic. I'm literally falling asleep at the keyboard while I go through liss' adventure because it comes down to if the enemy gets their wincon or not, not whether or not I can play around a decision. A.sol is genuinely fun because while a run can turn sour quickly, it's the perfect balance of getting stronger over the course of a long-winded adventure and taking the fight to a big menacing threat. Lissandra is just "did ya get the good rng" and (I can't stress this enough) BORING.
do you really think after 50 runs RNG is the reason you can't beat her? He's definitely one of the easier champs to beat her on.
Fr I did it in my first attempt
I concur. It was probably my easiest win after Aurelion.
Same, it was also my first attempt with Liss Adventure too, thought that she was doable until I tried other champs lol
I can consistently get to her without an issue, then I pull up to her fight and she just kills me before I can get anything off. It's consistent. I literally can't even play the damn game, even when I enter with full health. It's garbage.
Just reroll spam for vestige of helia and discount get Viego as fast as you can so you can steal their units. It's hard with 3 stars rare relics it took me like 5 hours
I think hard rolling for Trifarian is simpler.
I found trifarian not that useful cuz i couldn't block with mists. Maybe I used it wrongly?
Ideally you should be generating enough mists to just wipe her board every round repeatedly so you don't need to block anything.
Hows that possible early turns tho? She summons so many big units like turn 2 your mists don't scale fast enough to kill them, unless u highroll good mana or something else, mind you this is 3 stars rare relics
You open playing a 1-drop then playing the 'kill an ally, summon a mist' spell on them, preferably summoning an extra unit in the process (since I think all of Veigo's one-drops do that). From there you can use killing an ally to damage an enemy or a second kill ally to summon mists to make your mists 4/4s and discount Viego. Ideally you want Viego to have Stalker's Blade so he kills something on hitting the board to summon another mist and then when that mist strikes and dies viego sees it die and summons another mist which then strikes and dies. From there it's fairly easy to use a combination of self-kill spells and removal to trigger two or three mist summons per turn and they spiral out of control into being 12/12s very fast. Trifarian Might makes the whole thing faster by both killing your own mists (to trigger Viego summoning more mists when an ally dies) and killing enemy units (to summon mists on killing enemies).
Yeah, you won't generally be able to block with them, but I found that they just pounded the board.
When a sentence starts with 'just reroll for' you know it's inherently poorly done.
Man, vestige of helia dont come anymore i think i played more than 20 runs today and not i single time i got it, what won for me was the stun 2 units the Remitter gave me
Nah....ur just bad bro xD
Someone has to say it xD
Viego at least have fair with Liss since he not need play many cards in 1 turn- try to beat Liss with Nami, when Liss power counter Nami 3\* totally...
Drpowercuties has a good guide for Lissandra and it helped me to finally beat her after days of frustration. YMMV though.
While I appreciate the tip - genuinely, the idea of having to use a guide and play a very certain way is so against the idea the path used to be. It's a very big turn off and extremely boring in my eyes. Tbh, I wouldn't even mind if I could just ignore her adventure, because I have been, and I plan to continue that, but I want that damn diamond chest.
The only reason i played Liss was the Diamond Chest, Finally someone feel the same way about it
I mean there is a reason why Lissandra is one of the end game adventure. You need to know how to play correctly to beat her. Same for the new swain adventure. Also if you have tried 50+ time and not beating her, sorry but it is a simply a skill issue on your part. There are so many power that is just an insta win on viego or close to it, and you somehow couldn't capitalized on that for 50 runs then it's a you problem.
i feel the same way i was like this the whole day, i watched the guide and kept losing even without meeting lissandra, but i think i got the hang of it with time and started to constantly... lose to her until the game took pity on me and my strat come up
"I literally can't even play the damn game" Someone being helpful and suggests a guide. "It's a very big turn off and extremely boring in my eyes" So it's too hard but with guidance it's too boring? Then I see other posts in this thread from you saying you used a guide and it didn't help. I have to ask are you just trolling? Edit because your deleting comments I'll post a photo to put my comment in context. Until I can figure out why reddit isn't adding the screenshot we get no photos.
I haven't deleted anything lil bro. I think mods may be taking my posts down for speaking my opinions. Or your reddit is glitching.
https://preview.redd.it/ft7hfzl2lt7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73847baee15b6aaa8d99e20ea7af66124af521c2
I think maybe you are just bad at this game. I best Lissandra, first try ever, with Viego at 3*, level 28, without an epic relic slot. Literally my first attempt at Lissandra at all. Sorry you’re having a rough time, but it isn’t hard.
"I high rolled my first time against liss so that means there's no flaws with the adventure!"
I really didn’t, to be honest. Sorry you suck so bad though.
Sorry you're a habitual liar
Sorry you're a habitual troll.
Ratio'd
Anyone actually care?
Did u pick permanent spell shield? Seems that’s the wincon on this adventure and it’s boring
I did not. I did go through the Remitter, but I took “Spells cost 2 less. Dudes cost 1 more.”
There are simple strategies to beat Liss with Viego. These are posted on the subreddit. I beat her on the second try.
I've tried to follow those strats, but again, there is literally 0 counterplay when she has killed me on the first turn before I can legit summon anything. It's horseshit.
I would love you to explain to me how you get killed on the first turn before you can summon anything? That would literally imply she was able to attack and kill you before you even got a turn? She doesn't even start with units on the board, it's legit impossible lmao. Unless you're trolling and keep a hand full of units you cant play turn 1 lmao
Guess we’re playing different games. Never been killed turn one.
Here's a guide on how to lose turn 1. Pick up double -2 cost from emitter (you can get a second emitter before lissandra.) alternatively the fearsome power or 3/3 overwhelm could work. Mulligan for 5+ cost cards in your hand/low hp unit. Lissandra open herself, 3 thralls, ice shard, and harbringer. Plop down 3 thralls, lissandra, and harbringer in an order to somehow summon 2-3 thralls (I have no idea what the best possible hand can get her) Ice shard proc I am inevitable 3 times. She attack directly and you lose because for some reason you set yourself up for this to happen.
Stop Stop, this was my first run why are you watching my games ?
I was gobsmacked when everything got to 9 cost
"I've never hit challenger in league. Must not be in the game."
Lol now I know you’re trolling.
Old mate is clearly trolling for sure.
Man i was feeling the same, i played today the whole day, and found a solution, get the stun power, and then get the stun epic power from Remitter, then use I Strike 1 unit on Viego as the item (if you have 2 use 2) + Star fragment this will make you kill liss when you are out of enthomb proof https://preview.redd.it/968kq5j9fv7d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=05ca4fba50d9334c10b49e5fa9d4b29ffaa43554
I finally also did it last night by taking double stalkers blade plus voidborne carapice and high rolled into duplicate + legendary mana flow and took set all units health to 1 so I could remove any threats lissandra would propose. I still find it a bit absurd that's what it took to beat her, but now I can go back to ignoring this content for now and that pleases me.
This game is declining to a bad gacha game. \*fakes being shocked\*
Yeah buddy I agree. You should quit playing this game
The difficult content isn’t an issue for me. The ui with the now 5 star constellations is confusing as hell.
agreed with everything but #4 and #5 definitely! they’ll paywall powers on constellations!
I do understand how you feel. To me the "3 card" power for Lissandra is what makes it so annoying to play against. She already has really good cards and abilities, did she really need this power? The really restricts as to who can beat her since if you play something like a spellslinger deck (Janna and Nami for example) Liss just shuts down your entire gameplan. With Swain he does feel more beatble but the fact he summons himself from the deck is stupid, it means he's free to open attack (the ai might be dumb enough to not do it but still a possibility) which really limits the interaction with him. I think the monetization for the most part is ok but they really need to bundle couple of champs together or at least add some skins to the bundles for value (the Asol skin is a good example). Overall, Riot really need to figure out the proper way to monetize and balance this gamemode because right now it does feel very frustrating.
bruh drop Runeterra and get into FaB Flesh and Blood. So much better.
I really didn't think he was that hard tbh. Just tried my first run on my lunch break now and beat him with 4\* voli. It was definitely close but wasn't anything outrageously OP.
My point is not about hard- i allready beat him too.
Pvp died for this. Lol game is fucked. ByE
Even if I were to quit today, I've got more value and fun from Legends of Runeterra than just about any game I've played in my life. Everything ends, it doesn't make the game bad. In my opinion the Lis adventure (haven't tried Swain yet), is not as fun as the rest of the content. Not because it is hard, but because the Champions and Enemies are so distorted that the underlying card game stops being important. It's all about the powers. But as long as they keep introducing new champs for me to level, I'll keep playing. And when I move on I will be thankful for a terrific game that has given me years of joy.
Everything ends but on different way- and way what Lor take now is way to doom.
There are a lot of whiny people here. Play the game or don’t. It’s fine either way. But don’t lie to yourself and say the game is impossible unless you whale when there are plenty of people who have not spent a dime on the game and are doing just fine. Is it challenging? Yes. That means you can’t just slap a couple Plunder relics on Jinx and steamroll. You need to put some thought into your build and your plays. And if you are still on the grind, and the grind isn’t for you, that’s perfectly fine. But don’t blame the grind
I never say game is imposiible- i can beat swain. Allready beaten Liss with many champions even before constelation. All i say is that FOR ME game become more frustrating than fun. I know Lor will exist without me- single player. But if many players quit... lets say that is not something devs will like. I like grind. My post is not about it. You cant really grind in this game (not in point when i and many veterans are. Ocasional revard event are short and not repeatable)
i had a few disconnection issue today, if the server degrades further i will quit too
Man, if you're not having fun, just stop playing. Games are supposed to be fun. Why beat yourself over so insignificant.
You know that whole post is about that? Read last line at least.
Yeah, I read the whole post. You're just venting frustrations instead of playing something else or doing something fun. If players stop playing their game, the LoR team will understand they're going in the wrong direction. If peeps don't, then they'll just keep doing the same. For me at the very least, the Swain adventure was super fun; it's just pure bs instead of tactical approach like Lissandra. Way easier than her, but stil fun with tons of powerups.
should i care
I not force you to care or reply.
I want the real PvP back...
Ok, no one will miss you.
Another copy paste reply I am single player, but if many player dislike update to the point when they thinking about quit- devs will like to know that. This subreditt is also for comunication between us and devs. Of course i can speak only about myself, but even this discussion show that i am not only one who feel that way. Is about feadback.
Some madman has already beaten Swain and claimed his rewards, so clearly Swain isn't that hard, lol. Thanks for letting everyone know you're leaving. You will be missed. Xoxoxo.
Is not about hard to get rewards- i too beat him with 4/5. Not 5 just because i dont like play his map now more. Is about fair expierience for all champion. When you have map where slower than ''i can deal 100+damage in 1-3 turns) decks cant win without really broken roll power- is not good state of game. For you last- I am single player, but if many player dislike update to the point when they thinking about quit- devs will like to know that. This subreditt is also for comunication between us and devs. Of course i can speak only about myself, but even this discussion show that i am not only one who thinks that way. If you dont understand that- comunities are not for you.
Literally, all that means is their rng was good. The problem with swain and liss is that there's 0 skill reflection. It's just the game saying "ah, well, you didn't pull the correct powers, get fucked idiot" and that's toxic and boring. You should be able to salvage a run based on skill. I played lissandra today, and she killed me before I could even play a single card or react. That isn't gameplay. It's effectively a cutscene and it's boring.
If you believe that I won't argue. A question is still believe asol is hard and unfair?
Asol was hard, now it feels not so hard after Lissandra opened my Eyes to broken powers, i think Asol is VERY strong to a beginner like i was 6 months ago, for me now intermediate account it is good, but still not easy like "i will level up my champs 1 star there"
Some people do just that, lol. Ever since Aurelion Sol, we have had the same discussion: "This is unreasonably hard!" But now people point to Aurelion Sol and say this is reasonable. People do say I am just lucky, but I win most of the time when doing a Lissandra run, and I'm sure I'll hit some hurdles with Swain before I learn what's needed. Honestly luck is a small factor to how often one should win.
See my other comment on my thoughts on a.sol
What are the comments about Aurelion Sol? When Aurelion Sol was released, was he too difficult for you? Is he too difficult for you now?
No, I find a.sol to be a good challenge. Because he feels fucking realistic. I can mess up in a run and it feels like just that, I messed up. In liss, it feels like the game is literally just deciding I'm not going to win, and it's garbage.
But it's not a problem when you drop a card and you insta win now is it 😩🤣.... AI tired of our shit 🤣🤣🤣
>The problem with swain and liss is that there's 0 skill reflection [Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect). Things I am good enough to beat are balanced and fun. Things I am not good enough to beat are unbalanced and not fun and rng and no skill
So when I pull up to the lissandra fight and kills me before i can literally play the game... that's a skill issue? Interesting. I guess the definition of skill has changed. Maybe I should've reached into the game and slapped her before she can act.
If you die to Lissandra before playing a card, your deck is bad. Also that's hard: She can't get 40 damage on turn 1. So you died on turn 2? without playing any cards?
So you're saying that the game gave me bad cards. Which mean it would be rng. Because I'm sure after 2 years of drafting decks, I can distinguish what a good and bad deck is. Unless of course on the other hand, we're saying I have to play a very specific, one tracked way of play, which is also extremely boring and toxic. Either way it's garbage game design, truly. I want you to think about a fighting game or dark souls. When you die in dark souls, it is 99.9% of the time your fault. And that feels good. In a fighting game, it's 100% of the time your fault. There is skill. When playing a card game where there's an obstacle put in front of you, that's dependent on pulling a strategy, it's more likely it's the games fault rather than how you played. A.sol feels good because it feels like when I lose, I could've prevented it. With liss I've literally had numerous runs where the game just gives me poor options the entire time and there's 0 room to breathe. I can admit to fault in some scenarios, but when over half of my deaths have felt like I played right, but the game didn't think it was good enough and just kills me before I can realistically act, it feels fucking bad.
>So you're saying that the game gave me bad cards No, I am saying you picked bad cards You have a low winrate. Other people don't. You don't understand why you have a low winrate. [You have decided that means there is no skill.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) I can't tell you what you're doing wrong because you're not showing anything. If you record a video of yourself playing, we can give advice. Guides are repeatable and easy.
Oh, I understand very well why I have a low win rate. Because other people, yourself included, have barely passed because the rng was in your favor, you decided that it's not that big of a deal, and everyone else should be able to roll the run you or others got to win. But that's just not how it works. Because there's a guide proving it's possible, it means that there's no objective flaws with the style of play that inhibits those guides to be functional. I'm not saying there's absolutely no way to beat her, I'm saying that the ways to beat her is boring and completely against what path was fun for in the first place. I'm just critiquing a game that I've loved for the past 2 years because this fight just feels bad. I've talked to several different people who feel the exact same way, even if they have beaten it.
•looks at previous posts You have lost 50 runs against lissandra and blame bad rng and say people that win first or second run just had good rng? After 50 runs its less about rng and more about the choices you made.
This has been my experience since asols release I lose the first fight then I rarely loose afterwards. Same with lissandra I lost my first run and won the next 5. But then I guess I high roll everything to cover how bad I am.
I am one of these mad men that have beaten swain and I dare you to shut the fk up man. This adventure is beatable, beatable by bringing the most cheesy gameplans to avoid enemy interactions completely. It works but it doesn't resemble fun or interactive gameplay whatsoever. It's a matter of abusing broken mechanics, relics, picking up decent powers in a run and have bot the enemy highroll on you. It's hard, it removes half of even the stronger champions from viability and overall feels like challenge for challenge sake. If I wasn't a limit testing player, i would hate this and even if it should be for me it's really not that fun.
Rofl
Its not that hard and a good change of pace to the game
22xxx-22gx2⁸
Swain is not the content we are looking for - i think most of us were looking for 1-2 more 3 star difficulty and a couple non abusive 4 stars .
After day. I never expected this post will bring so huge discusions. Thanks for you are who have some valid points on this topic.
K bye. No need to be dramatic about it
I copy paste my reply to similar coment: I am single player, but if many player dislike update to the point when they thinking about quit- devs will like to know that. This subreditt is also for comunication between us and devs. Of course i can speak only about myself, but even this discussion show that i am not only one who things that way. Is not about drama, is feadback
K bye. Don't need to be so dramatic.
If you dont understand something that simple- maybe game comunities are not for you.
Apparently they aren't for you either since you're leaving.
Game is not same as game comunity- I can stay here and help others player. Besides read my post again- i not say i leave now.