It’s tough for me. I hate TikTok and I truly believe it’s making Americans dumber, but at the same time I also know it’s not right to ban speech. So no matter what I lose :(
You know how a lion chasing a herd of antilopes will target the weaker ones?
In the end the herd as a whole gets stronger by having the stragglers removed.
Alcohol does the same to your braincells, drinking makes you smarter.
I did come up with this theory when I was drunk, so I could be wrong.
I have the right to flail my fists until it impacts someones nose is how I heard it as a kid. If you physically wreck someone else, expect retaliation.
It can get tiring taking care of the 47 yr old with the ruined liver who has soiled himself for the 7th time today because his ammonia is through the roof and needs lactose to get it down but his brain is not capable of reasoning that he is physically incapable of walking to the bathroom without falling and busting his head so we have to constantly run to the room and make sure he isn't getting out of bed....
And that run on sentence is what it feels like having the alcoholic in the hospital; except it lasts twelve hours.
It’s not about banning speech, it’s about banning an algorithm and platform controlled by a foreign adversary. Very big difference.
And it’s honestly much worse than “making Americans dumber” and more like actively poisoning the minds of American children and spreading mental illness via social contagion
ETA: I would respond to the gentleman below but I seem to be rate limited now, funny how that works. Who said that the speech is the problem? The platform is the issue, not the speech taking place on it.
Ahh I see. It's not "banning speech" so long as it's speech that u/ThomasJeffergun personally disagrees with.
Hear that everyone? From hence forward, u/ThomasJeffergun shall be the official arbiter of what shall be classified as "free speech".
It is banning a foreign adversary, that is known to exert centralized control, from exploiting US app data to cause us harm. This is not the anarchism sub, it is the libertarian sub.
Again, how is this different from what facebook and Google do.
Google is much more invasive and has been shown to modify search results to shape public opinion. But in a way that the US government approves.
Google uses people's data every single day. So does reddit. How has tiktok specifically weaponized people's data and harmed anyone?
What has China done with user data, other than sell ads?
Foreign nation governments don't have free speech in other nations and free speech laws were never intended to protect governments. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.
And the U.S. government cannot jail foreign national governments. The only way to enforce a ban is to jail Americans who attempt to access TikTok, and jail anyone who helps Americans access it
Good idea! Why didn't the Chinese just think of that? Why do they bother running around and jailing their citizens who use YouTube and Google? They can just ban it!
You have no idea how the web works
They did think of it, that's why they often have their own versions of international websites/games/services that the vast majority of the chinese use. Very few in China use google and use Baidu instead. They literally just ban the website and steal the way it operates but then they change some of the direction. You have no idea how China operates and it's very clear if you think 2% of a country using a service when it used to be almost 40% isn't an effective ban, idiot.
>They literally just ~~ban the website~~ jail employees at the Internet service provider or any other private individual who distribute traffic from the blacklisted sites and individuals who bypass the law with a VPN.
Fixed that for you
Absolutely, I won't forget the US tech companies kissing fascist butt in Congress and behind the scenes. They let them look at our personal data without a warrant to oppress us directly. They are the bigger threat to freedom.
No it's not. That's political rhetoric.
Reddit is largely owned by China. Alibaba. WeChat, TEMU... Where are those bans??
Besides, anyone, anywhere, can setup a website for anything, run from somewhere else. Banning TikTok is an ignorant waste of U.S. Resources because people will just use something else, and nothing can stop Chinese owned/influenced stuff in any event.
The fact that Washington is focused on TikTok alone, because it's a popular brand, and not other things, is evidence this is all b.s. to appease voters.
Firstly, there is a large difference between Tencent having a 10% stake in the publicly traded American company Reddit and a wholly Chinese owned (and thus CCP controlled) company. Night and day different.
The CCP cannot exert the same level of influence over Reddit as TikTok. And even then it could be argued they can exert too much influence on Reddit as it is and many of us have seen it before.
Out of the other platforms you list, 2 of them are marketplaces and thus have nothing to do with social manipulation, and the latter is literally CCP spyware to monitor the lives of their citizens at home and abroad by consolidating as many aspects of your life as possible into a single government controlled app. If anything, the way WeChat is used by the CCP is proof of exactly what I’m saying and why TikTok is a threat to national security.
Do you think they’re going to be pushing libertarian values to Americans? Or the most divisive, left-right dichotomy bullshit in an attempt to further radicalize American citizens against each other, foment distrust leading to an even lower trust society.
It’s called active measures and it’s literally nothing new if you’ve been paying attention.
I can agree to the extent that as usual American politicians are out of touch, hyper focused on the shiny new thing, not taking into account the bigger picture. No question.
But if China wouldn’t let the US do what they do here to their own citizens (they wouldn’t) then why exactly do we let them do it here?
Do you have any idea just how many American tech companies are banned in China? Just about all of them, except for the few that bend the knee.
>Do you have any idea just how many American tech companies are banned in China?
Socialism is bad. Any libertarian should know that. The position should be to privatize tiktok. Not ban it. Why the fuck do you get a say in whether I get to use it? I don't use it but it's absolutely 100% none of your business. You are not being forced to use it.
>The position should be to privatize tiktok. Not ban it.
That's almost the goal of the bill. Force ByteDance to sell Tik Tok to a company that's not at the whim of the CCP.
Yes the challenges lol. People are afraid China will trick their kid d into poisoning th selves, but won't interact with their child to give them wisdom about it.
A Democrat House candidate posted a video on TikTok a couple of days ago. He was part of a briefing that candidates were given, where they were told the "ban" was entirely about corporate donors, of both parties, being upset that their money was being wasted if anyone could go on TikTok, get a million followers, and say whatever they wanted. They were told it wasn't about cyber security or national security at all, but entirely about their donors.
I've been saying from the first time a Congresscritter started bitching about TikTok that the problem was entirely too much truth is shared on TikTok. It's the only place they can't control.
> He was part of a briefing that candidates were given, where they were told the "ban" was entirely about corporate donors, of both parties, being upset that their money was being wasted
This sounds fake that candidates would get briefed like that, but I want to hear him out. Got a link?
It makes perfect sense; they want a unified party message that TikTok is evil down ballot. To his point, I don't follow him, and saw his video anyway.
[House Candidate](https://www.tiktok.com/@clevelandcanova2208/video/7360015959639248171?_t=8lqpai4Aity&_r=1)
The link didn't open well in Reddit, so you may need to copy and paste outside
https://www.tiktok.com/@clevelandcanova2208/video/7360015959639248171?_t=8lqpai4Aity&_r=1
One could also choose not to use it. Amazing that China controls practically all commerce in the US, including significant pharmaceuticals, but THIS is the threat. Okay, buddy.
It is about banning speech. This will be used to go after any platform not falling in line with the regime’s demands. It’s the same playbook every time. Stir up a frenzy around some sort of threat to get public support , often national security as it is in this case, use it to create legal precedent for novel authoritarian powers, then use those powers for causes that have much less support going forward but at that point there’s no way to stop it.
Yes, like Obama campaign bragging about downloading all social connections on Facebook for targeted propaganda, but that private company did some downloading to sell to RNC and they screamed bloody murder. Was it ars technica or something?
>It’s not about banning speech, it’s about banning an algorithm and platform controlled by a foreign adversary. Very big difference.
No, it’s about banning/compelling speech. Any other excuse is honestly delusional. China is not our “adversary” it’s all made up by republicans just like how democrats see Russia.
>And it’s honestly much worse than “making Americans dumber” and more like actively poisoning the minds of American children and spreading mental illness via social contagion
Sure that too.
China has a platform like TikTok, except it’s nothing like TikTok, and shows their populace and children much more positive content, and doesn’t spread fake self diagnosed multiple personality disorders on a massive scale, for example.
This entire thing would be a non issue if it were not owned by a foreign company and in particular China.
You may think China is not our adversary but that’s just you, they certainly see the US as their adversary and how could they not? The US has been setting the rules on a global scale for decades. China would obviously prefer a China run world order because of course they would, it’s what all nations do. Hello, BRICS? I didn’t think I’d have to argue why China wants a foothold to get ahead of the US.
I’m not saying we should go play team America world police but to act like even Russia, weakened and 2nd world as they may be, wouldn’t want to usurp the US led global order in a second if they had the chance is kind of ridiculous.
>China has a platform like TikTok, except it’s nothing like TikTok, and shows their populace and children much more positive content, and doesn’t spread fake self diagnosed multiple personality disorders on a massive scale, for example.
Isn't this one of the things we've criticized China for for a long time? Limiting their citizen's access and knowledge of the world outside of their country?
I'm a little concerned that banning tiktok is the first step in the same thing happening here.
I understand the fear of propaganda and I hate the effect phones and social media are having on society...*I* personally hate TikTok, Instagram and quite a few other modern social apps. I just don't like the thought of this ban being the first step to our population becoming even more ignorant to what's happening throughout the world than they already are.
Life isn't all sunshine and roses. If I want access to the harsh truths of reality, I should have the right to see it, and from more perspectives than what our politicians and leaders choose to let us see.
I understand that, but if all we're allowed to see and use is stuff owned and managed by American companies, we still risk being limited on what information we have access to. We end up only being told what those in charge *want* us to know.
We're nowhere near where China is now in this matter yet, I'm just afraid of it being the first stepping stone.
How is what they do different from what facebook or worse, Google, does?
The only real reason for this ban is because the government doesn't want competition brainwashing people.
I’m conflicted as well, but for different reasons… I see the free speech issue, but the bigger concern is it’s a huge china infiltration/propaganda machine. At what point do we restrict something basically that could be a Trojan horse?
TikTok wasn’t the first step down the long road of short attention spans. And it certainly won’t be the last. Banning it and solely it nothing more than arbitrary “because the president feels like it” grounds sets up bad precedent and throws into question our entire legal framework. Today it’s TikTok. Tommorow, it could be YT. Or vice. Or any other content creation/aggregation platform.
This is a lot more complicated than "a ban," and I think saying it's "a ban" seriously dumbs down the conversation. No one seems to actually want to ban Tik Tok. Tik Tok being a platform and people saying stuff on it isn't the problem that's being addressed. The problem is that it's owned and controlled, at least in part, by a hostile foreign government. Rather than shut Tik Tok down, congress passed legislation forcing the Chinese interests involved to divest themselves from the company. While I am squeamish about the idea that government thinks it has the power to say "you can't own that," they're not saying it to an individual, but to an authoritarian government. The federal government already prohibits China and other countries from owning any part of companies involved in such things as aerospace and defense, so there is a precedent for this.
In this particular case, no one appears to want to shut down speech. They just don't want the CCP to own, control, or use the company as an intelligence asset.
Bytedance - registered in the Cayman Islands. 3/5 board members American. 60% shares owned through the stock market. 20% owned by founders and 20% owned by employees.
Data for US users already controlled by Oracle in Texas.
The only reason tiktok is being banned is because of the recent upsurge in pro Palestinian and anti Israel sentiment.
So two Chinese board members and 40% of the company controlled by China, who is truly the controlling interest? Where are their servers located? Who can access them? Is the CCP getting that information in any way?
I agree with you that this was probably kicked off by political dissent. Now you know how the people who don't want to dump more money into Ukraine feel. They've been getting this kind of treatment for months now.
Nah it’s about speech. The USA wants to be able to compel peoples speech like they do on other social medias like FB but they can’t because Americans don’t own it.
You’re not crazy to say that, but does TikTok cross into affecting other parties? They are openly CCP-run and have algorithms proven to suggest videos to teen girls that are leading/promoting (however you want to phrase that) eating disorders. They don’t do that in China or even operate after 9:00 PM, at least for some users.
Even if the ban comes to fruition, I’m sure one of the social media giants here will just sweep up the market and promote the same horse shit.
I guess what I mean is that they are dumb, but it's because they haven't been educating themselves.
All young people do stupid shit but they don't broadcast it for the world.
Tiktok isn't inherently evil, it's just the catalyst that people turn to blame
Speech isn't really being banned though. That's what I initially thought about the whole thing but nothing is stopping China from dealing with a western licenser. That's what countries like Blizzard have to do in China. The chinese government doesn't have "free speech" control in western nations.
I absolutely hate TikTok. I’d rather be tied to the back of a pickup truck, and dragged across a cheese grater nut first, than watch anything on that God awful platform. But, the government should have no power to ever shut it down. Stupidity should be as protected as intelligence.
I challenge O.P. to start posting a fuckton of anti-Chinese-government rhetoric on their TikTok account.
Make sure you aren't masking your identity or hiding your location with a VPN.
Yes. You are technically correct. An individual that identifies themselves as an agent of and representative for the United States, State of residence, County of residence, and/or municipality of residence is ***FAR*** more likely to "show up at your door" than a counterpart from China.
The ones from China won't tell you who they are or what you've done wrong.
China has complete a complete media island. They couldn’t give 2 shits what happens in some guys basement in Montana. Post anti China stuff. Who cares. It’s not gonna be popular to the algorithm anyway. And if it was, they can just shadows ban you
Last I looked at the language, which was weeks ago, it is only aimed at foreign owned companies. I pointed out to a lot of conservatives this put Rumble in danger but they didn’t want to hear it.
This is so much worse than banning tik tok! This bill gave the president unchecked ability to ban any foreign app they determine is a threat. Huge move towards almost a China-like authoritarian state.
"If you consider yourself libertarian and support banning the Chinese government running their own law agencies in foreign countries, you're missing the forest for the trees."
This isn't about TikTok and you know it, it's about a hostile foreign government.
Love seeing all these comments about how TikTok makes Americans stupid but then you have some of the most brain-dead and bootlicking takes like this on Reddit. The irony is *chef’s kiss*
I'm more worried about the hostile domestic government that is infringing on our rights and spying on us right now than the "hostile foreign government" that might spy on us some day
It’s not a ban they’re being forced to sell that’s very different.
And yes if I’m being spied on I’d much much much much rather it’s the US doing the spying versus a mass murdering communist dictatorship
So what happens when they decide that Elon Musk is a "russian asset" and that he's forced to sell X to a regime shill who will go back to censorship? Same question with Rumble.
The bill isn't just about TikTok, it allows the president to ban *any* website that is "under the direction of or subject to" a hostile foreign government. If that sounds vague, that's because it was written to be vague.
Well then we shall protest if that happens.
The government already has the power to do so much worse shit.
They can throw you in a cage
They can torture you
They can force new drugs into your body
Banning a foreign asset is the right thing to do. No one will ever believe that musk is a foreign asset and enough people would stand against this.
The worst thing to allow in freedom of speech is the control of speech to adversaries and that is TikTok. TikTok is our town square and if a foreign company can decide what is being said in it then they can control what the public believe in.
It’s already proven that the gov didn’t force censorship on X they just requested it. We have no idea how the ccp is screwinnf around with the TikTok algorithm to fit their interests
It’s not banned it’s a forced divestiture of a strategic vulnerability. CCP has the power to force TikTok to do whatever they want with their algorithm it is the right thing to force them to sell to a purely American entity.
It’s not a CCP style policy the CCP would have just blacklisted it form their internet
All social media is a huge propaganda machine that can be manipulated by any entity with the ability to make a bot farm. Improvements in LLM AI is only going to make that more extreme and more accessible. Targeting specifically tiktok makes it pretty clear that this is most likely a result of lobbying from companies like meta, alphabet, etc. The tiktok algorithm is very good at what it is supposed to do, better than Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, etc. It is also very easy to guide and tailor what it shows you, relative to something like YouTube, and when it does pipeline you, it is pretty much identical to the way YouTube does it. There is a grain of truth in the foreign adversary narrative covering the larger truth that American companies simply don't want to have to compete with a superior product. If this was truly about the ability of uncontrolled agents to use social media for interference in U.S. affairs, we would have taken comprehensive and meaningful action back during Cambridge Analytica.
We should have never opened the door the communists. But business saw the cheap labor and the dollar signs and invited the devil in.
I'd be all for the TikTok ban if we were also banning all of Chinas shit.
Don’t ban it but put tariffs on their products so the marginal returns of using unregulated Chinese labour is the same cost as using unionized American labour
Absolutely. You definitely do not want to give government the power to ban websites or content they "don't like". They've seriously been overstepping their bounds since cvd.
The tik Tok ban is wrong, and the wording of the law will make it possible for any social media platform to be banned. OP is right, and it's insane to me the number of (I assume) libertarians who disagree. The only reason our government has suddenly got behind a ban that was being proposed when Trump was in, is because of all the pro Hamas views being expressed through tik Tok at the moment.
Does anyone remember the SEC literally forcing Elon to buy Twitter? After he joked about doing it? Went far enough to make a real deal? Backed out? Twitter got mad? They wanted the money? Sec forced the deal through ethical reasons or some crazy stuff? Elon went fine I’ll just buy it?
Not a ban it’s a forced sale. They are not the same thing.
The us is just prohibiting the foreign ownership of vulnerable assets.
Similarly foreigners aren’t allowed to own tv stations or allowed to work for advanced military entities. Unless you’re a complete anarchist and think any law at all is against your rights then this makes complete sense and is in line with the compromises we must make to live in a society. If you are an anarchist then I bid you good luck with your mini nuclear weapons and back yard chemical weapons lab
This is a first amendment issue and nobody is forcing anyone to use TikTok. This is rooted in the desire to control all social media outlets from any perceived mis/dis/mal information. Elon Musk has been a target concurrent to the TikTok ban for the same reason.
Gen Z overwhelmingly uses TikTok and they are expressing pro-Palestine sentiment now. This directly contradicts with the Biden admin. The opinions expressed may be offensive to some, but the first amendment doesn’t include “unless you’re offended”. Just to note: the Biden re-election campaign will continue using TikTok.
Without question, TikTok is the most anti-establishment place I've ever been. You'd have to be in a coma to miss the real reason EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS AGREED TO DO SOMETHING AND DID IT ON A SATURDAY.
This exactly. TikTok was fine with the US government until Israel vs Gaza discussion on the platform woke up American citizens to how much AIPAC influences our "elected officials". I started seeing TikTok amateur journalists pulling back the veil on AIPAC more in the last 6 months than all other mainstream "journalism" combined worldwide. Then suddenly, the AIPAC controlled American government united immediately to shut down the platform. The other big donors to our elected officials? Facebook, Google, etc that are competitive with TikTok in the phone app space.
This post in this subreddit is exactly why the Libertarian party will never get more than a few percent vote in any election. Self described "Libertarians" are not at all about the absolute freedoms defined by the ideal, they're all just Fox News adjacent Conservatives that drink the same Murdoch Kool Aid and repeat the same mainstream media propaganda.
Political posturing. Everyone can score points with voters for working to protect us from the dangers of social media; while at the end of the day, it won't change anything nor hinder the countless social media companiea... Many of which are also owned by China.
In fact, U.S. based companies (namely Meta, because of Stories, Reels, and Instagram) have probably paid off a lot of Federal representatives to get them to support this.
> In fact, U.S. based companies (namely Meta, because of Stories, Reels, and Instagram) have probably paid off a lot of Federal representatives to get them to support this.
Their contributions to the voting parties are public and the result is transparent.
Tonight I was served a video by a cyber security professor on how to safely communicate using a burner phone and how to buy them with the most care.
This afternoon I got one from a finance genius who built a case that commercial real estate is far enough under water that they're throwing the keys at the bank.
I don't know about you, but I don't see that kind of wild on FB or YT.
It really shows that the people hating on tiktok are the people who have only seen the cringey content. There is brainrot on there, like any social media. But the FYP is definitely well curated to a person’s interests and what videos they watch. If you watch trash 10 second videos, that is mostly what you get. But if you watch 2-5 minute long, high quality content, that is mostly what you will get. Funnily enough, it gives you what you are interested in, be it hobbies or politics, no matter what political views you have. It isn’t trying to control the narrative like Meta does. Just look at suggested Instagram Reels and note the differences. It’s utter shit.
There’s a reason why they are trying to ban tiktok and it’s not for national security reasons.
Part of why America is better than the CCP-controlled China in the first place is because we don't block foreign websites. I don't understand in the slightest why our government would want to throw away our own liberties. Why even bother fighting the CCP's influence if we are going to become just as authoritarian and nasty as they are.
Because a US Citizen won’t sell out his fellow man? The NSA is all about spying. Zuckerberg had congressman hearings over selling us out. An American won’t protect us either unfortunately
The kicker here is Zuck sells us out to our own government. If Zuckerberg looks like he’s even thinking about giving information to the Chinese government he will likely disappear and Meta’s portfolio of services will also disappear.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/technology/facebook-device-partnerships-china.html
Every government with a halfway decent "security" budget has a piece of your data and has paid for a more in depth profile from meta/Google et. al. for the people they are more interested in.
Yes it should. We banning the BBC next? All news will have bias, especially our own. I should have a choice on where I get my news.
I don’t use TikTok and fully believe it makes people dumber, but in the end my vices are my choice.
nooooooooooooooo
the largest communist government hassss to have absolute control over the largest machine of youth influence in our country
it can’t be sold at a profit to private enterpriseee
the ccp needs abject control for freedommm
they need back doors on our dataaaaaa
privacy badddd
they shouldn’t need to play by the same rulesss
noooooooooo
that’s how you fucks sound
I’m not sure where I stand on this, because China. But I’m really ignorant on the matter, to be honest. Which is why I don’t have a fully formed opinion. As a censorship ban, I’m staunchly against, even though I think TikTok is terrible for our society. As a security measure…I can see an argument, but again…I lack the knowledge to have an informed opinion.
Idk, some foreign entities collecting our data isn’t a freedom of speech. I’m against collecting data by any entities foreign or domestic, and I don’t think we should be okay with some foreign companies analyzing us.
It’s not about the intentional destruction of our children’s minds… it’s about a foreign enemy spying on millions of Americans homes. Ban that shitty Chinese spyware. While their at it, they should ban shitty American spyware too.
The irony of the Government who is spying on me trying to protect me against the other government who is spying on me.
Leave me our of your turf war.
Fuck the bloods, fuck the Crips. Fuck the US Gov, fuck the CCP.
End the state.
Whenever the government tries to do something, always consider the precident it is setting, because it *will* be used as justification to go further later.
If they want to do it the right way, they should put it up for a constitutional amendment. lol.
In principle, I'm totally against it. Banning free speech is crazy. And like the meme suggests, it's a VERY slippery slope. And you know those parasites want to go for X next.
The only case they have is national security. If it IS Chinese Spyware like they claim and it IS a way to spread Chinese propaganda, then fine. But, the government doesn't have the best track record of telling the truth... ie the Patriot Act
I believe the reason for the ban is the way the app collects data. It not only gets data from the device it’s on but all devices on the same router.
It grabs every possible piece of data it can.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilsayegh/2022/11/09/tiktok-users-are-bleeding-data/
This first article I found from two years ago.
I recall listening to a podcast about it and the analyst was stunned about how much different data it collected.
Conservatives bitched about how Obama was taking their freedom, Trump comes along and allows more anti second amendment laws to pass, even actively saying to take away guns first then due process (not how it works in reality), now the same people are bitching that Biden is taking away their freedoms but cheers on the state of banning something they cannot directly control via backdoor channels.
At this point war is not an if but when.
I'm going to disagree here. TikTok is owned by a foreign government. It's not right to allow them to control information that so many people consume. Forcing the sake of definitely the right thing to do and it had nothing to do with free speech.
I kinda support it actually and not only cause I really hate it.
Still, the idea is that US government has to protect the rights and free speech of it's citizens and it's people. Banning a foreign platform from operating within the country is not the same as "banning free speech". Well as long as you are able to forward and post everything from TikTok on other platforms that is.
The message or the "speech" there isn't banned or regulated, therefor 1st amendment isn't violated. Even the platform itself isn't banned.. they were offered an alternative to sell it.
It's a no brainer. It's Chinese owned propaganda brain washing people. When they found out it wS being banned they literally started messaging people to go against it. You can't own business in China unless you're a Chinese citizen, why should we not follow suit. China is a communist nation and our greatest threat economically.
Long story short = communism is bad/evil.
It’s tough for me. I hate TikTok and I truly believe it’s making Americans dumber, but at the same time I also know it’s not right to ban speech. So no matter what I lose :(
To be fair, the 12-pack of beer I drink everyday takes a few neurons with it too….
You know how a lion chasing a herd of antilopes will target the weaker ones? In the end the herd as a whole gets stronger by having the stragglers removed. Alcohol does the same to your braincells, drinking makes you smarter. I did come up with this theory when I was drunk, so I could be wrong.
I tried to explain this exact theory to my mother once, in the end proclaiming "it's survivest of the fittal!!" She was unconvinced lol
That theory has been around for at least 40 years. I heard it from my dad's friends when I was growing up in the 80s.
40 years ago was the 60s, dumbass. /s
That’s from Cheers!!
We’d have some fun conversations with a half-drunken bottle of tequila 🍻 I second your theory
You shouldn’t be drinking daily anyway
Don't tell him/her what he/she should and shouldn't do with his/her freedom! Man that was too many pronouns
Should not != can not
Underappreciated aspect of libertarianism for many libertarians.
Saying you should not doesn't equal can not, it's free speech and they can do with it as they will. You shouldn't put sugar in your own gas tank.
Liberty stops when your freedom impacts others… including being impaired daily.. coming from a pothead lol
I have the right to flail my fists until it impacts someones nose is how I heard it as a kid. If you physically wreck someone else, expect retaliation.
It can get tiring taking care of the 47 yr old with the ruined liver who has soiled himself for the 7th time today because his ammonia is through the roof and needs lactose to get it down but his brain is not capable of reasoning that he is physically incapable of walking to the bathroom without falling and busting his head so we have to constantly run to the room and make sure he isn't getting out of bed.... And that run on sentence is what it feels like having the alcoholic in the hospital; except it lasts twelve hours.
With the current state of inflation, all I can afford. Maybe some hard boiled eggs too 🍻
It’s not about banning speech, it’s about banning an algorithm and platform controlled by a foreign adversary. Very big difference. And it’s honestly much worse than “making Americans dumber” and more like actively poisoning the minds of American children and spreading mental illness via social contagion ETA: I would respond to the gentleman below but I seem to be rate limited now, funny how that works. Who said that the speech is the problem? The platform is the issue, not the speech taking place on it.
Ahh I see. It's not "banning speech" so long as it's speech that u/ThomasJeffergun personally disagrees with. Hear that everyone? From hence forward, u/ThomasJeffergun shall be the official arbiter of what shall be classified as "free speech".
This isn't being done to "ban speech." It's being done so that the CCP won't be controlling the platform or accessing the information it acquires.
Lol. Show me specifically where the issue is. Identify a single individual person who has been harmed.
It is banning a foreign adversary, that is known to exert centralized control, from exploiting US app data to cause us harm. This is not the anarchism sub, it is the libertarian sub.
Again, how is this different from what facebook and Google do. Google is much more invasive and has been shown to modify search results to shape public opinion. But in a way that the US government approves.
Can't locate one single individual who has been harmed huh?
Do you consider privacy violations harm? Do you consider having personal data to use as a weapon harm?
Google uses people's data every single day. So does reddit. How has tiktok specifically weaponized people's data and harmed anyone? What has China done with user data, other than sell ads?
They can sow dissent, they can cause harm with the access to people’s devices.
Foreign nation governments don't have free speech in other nations and free speech laws were never intended to protect governments. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.
And the U.S. government cannot jail foreign national governments. The only way to enforce a ban is to jail Americans who attempt to access TikTok, and jail anyone who helps Americans access it
No. The way to enforce a ban is to ban it from being run in the US under Chinese state ownership.
Good idea! Why didn't the Chinese just think of that? Why do they bother running around and jailing their citizens who use YouTube and Google? They can just ban it! You have no idea how the web works
They did think of it, that's why they often have their own versions of international websites/games/services that the vast majority of the chinese use. Very few in China use google and use Baidu instead. They literally just ban the website and steal the way it operates but then they change some of the direction. You have no idea how China operates and it's very clear if you think 2% of a country using a service when it used to be almost 40% isn't an effective ban, idiot.
>They literally just ~~ban the website~~ jail employees at the Internet service provider or any other private individual who distribute traffic from the blacklisted sites and individuals who bypass the law with a VPN. Fixed that for you
As an American i have a 1st amendment right to read a foreign government's propaganda . US government does not have a right to ban that.
Our government is still a bigger threat than China
This. The US Gov is only upset because TikTok is a popular social media that isn’t under their control; the other big ones are.
Absolutely, I won't forget the US tech companies kissing fascist butt in Congress and behind the scenes. They let them look at our personal data without a warrant to oppress us directly. They are the bigger threat to freedom.
No it's not. That's political rhetoric. Reddit is largely owned by China. Alibaba. WeChat, TEMU... Where are those bans?? Besides, anyone, anywhere, can setup a website for anything, run from somewhere else. Banning TikTok is an ignorant waste of U.S. Resources because people will just use something else, and nothing can stop Chinese owned/influenced stuff in any event. The fact that Washington is focused on TikTok alone, because it's a popular brand, and not other things, is evidence this is all b.s. to appease voters.
Firstly, there is a large difference between Tencent having a 10% stake in the publicly traded American company Reddit and a wholly Chinese owned (and thus CCP controlled) company. Night and day different. The CCP cannot exert the same level of influence over Reddit as TikTok. And even then it could be argued they can exert too much influence on Reddit as it is and many of us have seen it before. Out of the other platforms you list, 2 of them are marketplaces and thus have nothing to do with social manipulation, and the latter is literally CCP spyware to monitor the lives of their citizens at home and abroad by consolidating as many aspects of your life as possible into a single government controlled app. If anything, the way WeChat is used by the CCP is proof of exactly what I’m saying and why TikTok is a threat to national security. Do you think they’re going to be pushing libertarian values to Americans? Or the most divisive, left-right dichotomy bullshit in an attempt to further radicalize American citizens against each other, foment distrust leading to an even lower trust society. It’s called active measures and it’s literally nothing new if you’ve been paying attention. I can agree to the extent that as usual American politicians are out of touch, hyper focused on the shiny new thing, not taking into account the bigger picture. No question. But if China wouldn’t let the US do what they do here to their own citizens (they wouldn’t) then why exactly do we let them do it here? Do you have any idea just how many American tech companies are banned in China? Just about all of them, except for the few that bend the knee.
>Do you have any idea just how many American tech companies are banned in China? Socialism is bad. Any libertarian should know that. The position should be to privatize tiktok. Not ban it. Why the fuck do you get a say in whether I get to use it? I don't use it but it's absolutely 100% none of your business. You are not being forced to use it.
>The position should be to privatize tiktok. Not ban it. That's almost the goal of the bill. Force ByteDance to sell Tik Tok to a company that's not at the whim of the CCP.
That's 2 central planners fighting for dominance.
The real question then is, which central planner do you prefer (i.e. which of them isn't as egregious and/or ruthless)?
Either neither, or the foreign one that can't exercise authority over me (USA government controlled tech. can lol!)
So you accept slavery. You are the problem. Any response other than total opposition is weak, cowardly and why we are in this predicament.
This is a childs perspective.
They don’t know about Reddit. Otherwise yes it would be banned
Yes the challenges lol. People are afraid China will trick their kid d into poisoning th selves, but won't interact with their child to give them wisdom about it.
A Democrat House candidate posted a video on TikTok a couple of days ago. He was part of a briefing that candidates were given, where they were told the "ban" was entirely about corporate donors, of both parties, being upset that their money was being wasted if anyone could go on TikTok, get a million followers, and say whatever they wanted. They were told it wasn't about cyber security or national security at all, but entirely about their donors. I've been saying from the first time a Congresscritter started bitching about TikTok that the problem was entirely too much truth is shared on TikTok. It's the only place they can't control.
> He was part of a briefing that candidates were given, where they were told the "ban" was entirely about corporate donors, of both parties, being upset that their money was being wasted This sounds fake that candidates would get briefed like that, but I want to hear him out. Got a link?
It makes perfect sense; they want a unified party message that TikTok is evil down ballot. To his point, I don't follow him, and saw his video anyway. [House Candidate](https://www.tiktok.com/@clevelandcanova2208/video/7360015959639248171?_t=8lqpai4Aity&_r=1)
The link didn't open well in Reddit, so you may need to copy and paste outside https://www.tiktok.com/@clevelandcanova2208/video/7360015959639248171?_t=8lqpai4Aity&_r=1
One could also choose not to use it. Amazing that China controls practically all commerce in the US, including significant pharmaceuticals, but THIS is the threat. Okay, buddy.
It is about banning speech. This will be used to go after any platform not falling in line with the regime’s demands. It’s the same playbook every time. Stir up a frenzy around some sort of threat to get public support , often national security as it is in this case, use it to create legal precedent for novel authoritarian powers, then use those powers for causes that have much less support going forward but at that point there’s no way to stop it.
Yes, like Obama campaign bragging about downloading all social connections on Facebook for targeted propaganda, but that private company did some downloading to sell to RNC and they screamed bloody murder. Was it ars technica or something?
>It’s not about banning speech, it’s about banning an algorithm and platform controlled by a foreign adversary. Very big difference. No, it’s about banning/compelling speech. Any other excuse is honestly delusional. China is not our “adversary” it’s all made up by republicans just like how democrats see Russia. >And it’s honestly much worse than “making Americans dumber” and more like actively poisoning the minds of American children and spreading mental illness via social contagion Sure that too.
China has a platform like TikTok, except it’s nothing like TikTok, and shows their populace and children much more positive content, and doesn’t spread fake self diagnosed multiple personality disorders on a massive scale, for example. This entire thing would be a non issue if it were not owned by a foreign company and in particular China. You may think China is not our adversary but that’s just you, they certainly see the US as their adversary and how could they not? The US has been setting the rules on a global scale for decades. China would obviously prefer a China run world order because of course they would, it’s what all nations do. Hello, BRICS? I didn’t think I’d have to argue why China wants a foothold to get ahead of the US. I’m not saying we should go play team America world police but to act like even Russia, weakened and 2nd world as they may be, wouldn’t want to usurp the US led global order in a second if they had the chance is kind of ridiculous.
K lol
Good argument Chief I’m sure they’ll give you one of the good jobs in the camps
Well I won’t be the resident bootlicker as you’ve secured that position.
At least I’m presenting an argument, you didn’t refute a single point I made lmao
K lmao https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/s/Uju8OT4PF0
“It’s not about banning speech” “nuh uh” Ok great counter argument
>China has a platform like TikTok, except it’s nothing like TikTok, and shows their populace and children much more positive content, and doesn’t spread fake self diagnosed multiple personality disorders on a massive scale, for example. Isn't this one of the things we've criticized China for for a long time? Limiting their citizen's access and knowledge of the world outside of their country? I'm a little concerned that banning tiktok is the first step in the same thing happening here. I understand the fear of propaganda and I hate the effect phones and social media are having on society...*I* personally hate TikTok, Instagram and quite a few other modern social apps. I just don't like the thought of this ban being the first step to our population becoming even more ignorant to what's happening throughout the world than they already are. Life isn't all sunshine and roses. If I want access to the harsh truths of reality, I should have the right to see it, and from more perspectives than what our politicians and leaders choose to let us see.
TikTok isn't being banned though, China controlling it is, they're completely free to have a western subdivision running it.
I understand that, but if all we're allowed to see and use is stuff owned and managed by American companies, we still risk being limited on what information we have access to. We end up only being told what those in charge *want* us to know. We're nowhere near where China is now in this matter yet, I'm just afraid of it being the first stepping stone.
Being in Libertarian sub and not seeing Communists as an adversary, wut?
This guy drank the kool-aid.
How is what they do different from what facebook or worse, Google, does? The only real reason for this ban is because the government doesn't want competition brainwashing people.
Right exactly, they don't want competition on propaganda
I’m conflicted as well, but for different reasons… I see the free speech issue, but the bigger concern is it’s a huge china infiltration/propaganda machine. At what point do we restrict something basically that could be a Trojan horse?
TikTok wasn’t the first step down the long road of short attention spans. And it certainly won’t be the last. Banning it and solely it nothing more than arbitrary “because the president feels like it” grounds sets up bad precedent and throws into question our entire legal framework. Today it’s TikTok. Tommorow, it could be YT. Or vice. Or any other content creation/aggregation platform.
This is a lot more complicated than "a ban," and I think saying it's "a ban" seriously dumbs down the conversation. No one seems to actually want to ban Tik Tok. Tik Tok being a platform and people saying stuff on it isn't the problem that's being addressed. The problem is that it's owned and controlled, at least in part, by a hostile foreign government. Rather than shut Tik Tok down, congress passed legislation forcing the Chinese interests involved to divest themselves from the company. While I am squeamish about the idea that government thinks it has the power to say "you can't own that," they're not saying it to an individual, but to an authoritarian government. The federal government already prohibits China and other countries from owning any part of companies involved in such things as aerospace and defense, so there is a precedent for this. In this particular case, no one appears to want to shut down speech. They just don't want the CCP to own, control, or use the company as an intelligence asset.
Bytedance - registered in the Cayman Islands. 3/5 board members American. 60% shares owned through the stock market. 20% owned by founders and 20% owned by employees. Data for US users already controlled by Oracle in Texas. The only reason tiktok is being banned is because of the recent upsurge in pro Palestinian and anti Israel sentiment.
So two Chinese board members and 40% of the company controlled by China, who is truly the controlling interest? Where are their servers located? Who can access them? Is the CCP getting that information in any way? I agree with you that this was probably kicked off by political dissent. Now you know how the people who don't want to dump more money into Ukraine feel. They've been getting this kind of treatment for months now.
Nah it’s about speech. The USA wants to be able to compel peoples speech like they do on other social medias like FB but they can’t because Americans don’t own it.
Hating TikTok and making Americans dumber is absolutely no cause at all for the government to intervene.
You’re not crazy to say that, but does TikTok cross into affecting other parties? They are openly CCP-run and have algorithms proven to suggest videos to teen girls that are leading/promoting (however you want to phrase that) eating disorders. They don’t do that in China or even operate after 9:00 PM, at least for some users. Even if the ban comes to fruition, I’m sure one of the social media giants here will just sweep up the market and promote the same horse shit.
I agree... I would add the strategic national defense component also.
Well yeah all social media apps have a strategic national defensive component 🙄
It's not making anyone dumber. It's just distracting kids from doing intelligent enhancements items instead.
My evidence is all anecdotal, but I say that for a reason. I’ve seen a lot of young people doing really dumb shit because of TikTok.
I guess what I mean is that they are dumb, but it's because they haven't been educating themselves. All young people do stupid shit but they don't broadcast it for the world. Tiktok isn't inherently evil, it's just the catalyst that people turn to blame
It's way more than just banning speech.
It's not really "banning speech", it's banning the ability for you to sell your data to China
Facebook already sold most of my data to China...
Facts
Nah, they don’t care about that. It’s about the ability to control speech.
Censorship = censorship.
Yup
Speech isn't really being banned though. That's what I initially thought about the whole thing but nothing is stopping China from dealing with a western licenser. That's what countries like Blizzard have to do in China. The chinese government doesn't have "free speech" control in western nations.
You have no idea what you’re taking about you OrangeMan meat-riding clown
You're the type of "libertarian" who give the ideas a bad name.
You’re the type of “libertarian” who thinks govt looks out for your best interest.
I absolutely hate TikTok. I’d rather be tied to the back of a pickup truck, and dragged across a cheese grater nut first, than watch anything on that God awful platform. But, the government should have no power to ever shut it down. Stupidity should be as protected as intelligence.
I challenge O.P. to start posting a fuckton of anti-Chinese-government rhetoric on their TikTok account. Make sure you aren't masking your identity or hiding your location with a VPN.
dude, there is so much anti chinese posts on my fyp, you'd have to think that tiktok was being run by our government
If you live in the US the US government is much more likely to show up at your door due to tik Tok then the Chinese government.
Yes. You are technically correct. An individual that identifies themselves as an agent of and representative for the United States, State of residence, County of residence, and/or municipality of residence is ***FAR*** more likely to "show up at your door" than a counterpart from China. The ones from China won't tell you who they are or what you've done wrong.
And are pretty u likely to show up at your door at all.
China has complete a complete media island. They couldn’t give 2 shits what happens in some guys basement in Montana. Post anti China stuff. Who cares. It’s not gonna be popular to the algorithm anyway. And if it was, they can just shadows ban you
Last I looked at the language, which was weeks ago, it is only aimed at foreign owned companies. I pointed out to a lot of conservatives this put Rumble in danger but they didn’t want to hear it.
This is so much worse than banning tik tok! This bill gave the president unchecked ability to ban any foreign app they determine is a threat. Huge move towards almost a China-like authoritarian state.
If TikTok wants my data, they can buy it from Google, Amazon, Walmart, and Meta like everyone else.
"If you consider yourself libertarian and support banning the Chinese government running their own law agencies in foreign countries, you're missing the forest for the trees." This isn't about TikTok and you know it, it's about a hostile foreign government.
Love seeing all these comments about how TikTok makes Americans stupid but then you have some of the most brain-dead and bootlicking takes like this on Reddit. The irony is *chef’s kiss*
I'm more worried about the hostile domestic government that is infringing on our rights and spying on us right now than the "hostile foreign government" that might spy on us some day
It’s not a ban they’re being forced to sell that’s very different. And yes if I’m being spied on I’d much much much much rather it’s the US doing the spying versus a mass murdering communist dictatorship
So what happens when they decide that Elon Musk is a "russian asset" and that he's forced to sell X to a regime shill who will go back to censorship? Same question with Rumble. The bill isn't just about TikTok, it allows the president to ban *any* website that is "under the direction of or subject to" a hostile foreign government. If that sounds vague, that's because it was written to be vague.
Well then we shall protest if that happens. The government already has the power to do so much worse shit. They can throw you in a cage They can torture you They can force new drugs into your body Banning a foreign asset is the right thing to do. No one will ever believe that musk is a foreign asset and enough people would stand against this. The worst thing to allow in freedom of speech is the control of speech to adversaries and that is TikTok. TikTok is our town square and if a foreign company can decide what is being said in it then they can control what the public believe in. It’s already proven that the gov didn’t force censorship on X they just requested it. We have no idea how the ccp is screwinnf around with the TikTok algorithm to fit their interests
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ah yes ! emulating CCP policies, what could go wrong !
Liberty for all, unless its a ideology i don't like!
It’s not banned it’s a forced divestiture of a strategic vulnerability. CCP has the power to force TikTok to do whatever they want with their algorithm it is the right thing to force them to sell to a purely American entity. It’s not a CCP style policy the CCP would have just blacklisted it form their internet
They want it banned because it has no filters regarding the Israel palestine conflict.
Correct
Totalitarian rules vs totalitarian propaganda.... Shit why I gotta choose fr
My thoughts exactly
Praying that they go after twitter just so finally a lot of these sheeples will wake up. Never been right vs left it’s them vs us.
All social media is a huge propaganda machine that can be manipulated by any entity with the ability to make a bot farm. Improvements in LLM AI is only going to make that more extreme and more accessible. Targeting specifically tiktok makes it pretty clear that this is most likely a result of lobbying from companies like meta, alphabet, etc. The tiktok algorithm is very good at what it is supposed to do, better than Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, etc. It is also very easy to guide and tailor what it shows you, relative to something like YouTube, and when it does pipeline you, it is pretty much identical to the way YouTube does it. There is a grain of truth in the foreign adversary narrative covering the larger truth that American companies simply don't want to have to compete with a superior product. If this was truly about the ability of uncontrolled agents to use social media for interference in U.S. affairs, we would have taken comprehensive and meaningful action back during Cambridge Analytica.
We should have never opened the door the communists. But business saw the cheap labor and the dollar signs and invited the devil in. I'd be all for the TikTok ban if we were also banning all of Chinas shit.
Don’t ban it but put tariffs on their products so the marginal returns of using unregulated Chinese labour is the same cost as using unionized American labour
Absolutely. You definitely do not want to give government the power to ban websites or content they "don't like". They've seriously been overstepping their bounds since cvd.
The tik Tok ban is wrong, and the wording of the law will make it possible for any social media platform to be banned. OP is right, and it's insane to me the number of (I assume) libertarians who disagree. The only reason our government has suddenly got behind a ban that was being proposed when Trump was in, is because of all the pro Hamas views being expressed through tik Tok at the moment.
Everyone will just figure out what a VPN is anyway
They will not ban Reddit! Right? Lol
Does anyone remember the SEC literally forcing Elon to buy Twitter? After he joked about doing it? Went far enough to make a real deal? Backed out? Twitter got mad? They wanted the money? Sec forced the deal through ethical reasons or some crazy stuff? Elon went fine I’ll just buy it?
Congress literally made a law abridging the freedom of speech. For all the “but muh first amendment” in recent years, this actually violates it.
First they come for your guns. The rest of your rights will be a piece of cake to violate.
If you support the TikTok ban you're probably not a Libertarian. Not gate keeping, just stating a fact.
Not a ban it’s a forced sale. They are not the same thing. The us is just prohibiting the foreign ownership of vulnerable assets. Similarly foreigners aren’t allowed to own tv stations or allowed to work for advanced military entities. Unless you’re a complete anarchist and think any law at all is against your rights then this makes complete sense and is in line with the compromises we must make to live in a society. If you are an anarchist then I bid you good luck with your mini nuclear weapons and back yard chemical weapons lab
This is a first amendment issue and nobody is forcing anyone to use TikTok. This is rooted in the desire to control all social media outlets from any perceived mis/dis/mal information. Elon Musk has been a target concurrent to the TikTok ban for the same reason. Gen Z overwhelmingly uses TikTok and they are expressing pro-Palestine sentiment now. This directly contradicts with the Biden admin. The opinions expressed may be offensive to some, but the first amendment doesn’t include “unless you’re offended”. Just to note: the Biden re-election campaign will continue using TikTok.
Without question, TikTok is the most anti-establishment place I've ever been. You'd have to be in a coma to miss the real reason EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS AGREED TO DO SOMETHING AND DID IT ON A SATURDAY.
This exactly. TikTok was fine with the US government until Israel vs Gaza discussion on the platform woke up American citizens to how much AIPAC influences our "elected officials". I started seeing TikTok amateur journalists pulling back the veil on AIPAC more in the last 6 months than all other mainstream "journalism" combined worldwide. Then suddenly, the AIPAC controlled American government united immediately to shut down the platform. The other big donors to our elected officials? Facebook, Google, etc that are competitive with TikTok in the phone app space. This post in this subreddit is exactly why the Libertarian party will never get more than a few percent vote in any election. Self described "Libertarians" are not at all about the absolute freedoms defined by the ideal, they're all just Fox News adjacent Conservatives that drink the same Murdoch Kool Aid and repeat the same mainstream media propaganda.
Elaborate.
Political posturing. Everyone can score points with voters for working to protect us from the dangers of social media; while at the end of the day, it won't change anything nor hinder the countless social media companiea... Many of which are also owned by China. In fact, U.S. based companies (namely Meta, because of Stories, Reels, and Instagram) have probably paid off a lot of Federal representatives to get them to support this.
> In fact, U.S. based companies (namely Meta, because of Stories, Reels, and Instagram) have probably paid off a lot of Federal representatives to get them to support this. Their contributions to the voting parties are public and the result is transparent.
Tonight I was served a video by a cyber security professor on how to safely communicate using a burner phone and how to buy them with the most care. This afternoon I got one from a finance genius who built a case that commercial real estate is far enough under water that they're throwing the keys at the bank. I don't know about you, but I don't see that kind of wild on FB or YT.
It really shows that the people hating on tiktok are the people who have only seen the cringey content. There is brainrot on there, like any social media. But the FYP is definitely well curated to a person’s interests and what videos they watch. If you watch trash 10 second videos, that is mostly what you get. But if you watch 2-5 minute long, high quality content, that is mostly what you will get. Funnily enough, it gives you what you are interested in, be it hobbies or politics, no matter what political views you have. It isn’t trying to control the narrative like Meta does. Just look at suggested Instagram Reels and note the differences. It’s utter shit. There’s a reason why they are trying to ban tiktok and it’s not for national security reasons.
Part of why America is better than the CCP-controlled China in the first place is because we don't block foreign websites. I don't understand in the slightest why our government would want to throw away our own liberties. Why even bother fighting the CCP's influence if we are going to become just as authoritarian and nasty as they are.
Jesus Christ - and you people vote? Fuck me.
I don't give 2 shits about tik tok, but the precedent is terrifying.
TokTok is the only social media platform that didn't participate in censorship efforts of the Biden white house
I'm torn on this one. If it's not controlled by a US citizen then does it have the same protections in the US to operate.
You think the US has somehow passed some purity test that makes it a worthy monitor of right and wrong?
Because a US Citizen won’t sell out his fellow man? The NSA is all about spying. Zuckerberg had congressman hearings over selling us out. An American won’t protect us either unfortunately
The kicker here is Zuck sells us out to our own government. If Zuckerberg looks like he’s even thinking about giving information to the Chinese government he will likely disappear and Meta’s portfolio of services will also disappear.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/technology/facebook-device-partnerships-china.html Every government with a halfway decent "security" budget has a piece of your data and has paid for a more in depth profile from meta/Google et. al. for the people they are more interested in.
Yes it should. We banning the BBC next? All news will have bias, especially our own. I should have a choice on where I get my news. I don’t use TikTok and fully believe it makes people dumber, but in the end my vices are my choice.
This meme pretty much sums it up
nooooooooooooooo the largest communist government hassss to have absolute control over the largest machine of youth influence in our country it can’t be sold at a profit to private enterpriseee the ccp needs abject control for freedommm they need back doors on our dataaaaaa privacy badddd they shouldn’t need to play by the same rulesss noooooooooo that’s how you fucks sound
I’m not sure where I stand on this, because China. But I’m really ignorant on the matter, to be honest. Which is why I don’t have a fully formed opinion. As a censorship ban, I’m staunchly against, even though I think TikTok is terrible for our society. As a security measure…I can see an argument, but again…I lack the knowledge to have an informed opinion.
Tiktok is just as bad for society as the platform you're on currently.
You’re not wrong.
Idk, some foreign entities collecting our data isn’t a freedom of speech. I’m against collecting data by any entities foreign or domestic, and I don’t think we should be okay with some foreign companies analyzing us.
It’s not about the intentional destruction of our children’s minds… it’s about a foreign enemy spying on millions of Americans homes. Ban that shitty Chinese spyware. While their at it, they should ban shitty American spyware too.
The irony of the Government who is spying on me trying to protect me against the other government who is spying on me. Leave me our of your turf war. Fuck the bloods, fuck the Crips. Fuck the US Gov, fuck the CCP. End the state.
I think the ban is wrong, but I also think it's good.
Not to mention the fact the US is demanding a private company divest. Same government nonsense they are doing with US Steel right now.
China blocks Western Websites.
Whenever the government tries to do something, always consider the precident it is setting, because it *will* be used as justification to go further later.
Banning an app is not the same as banning speech.
If they want to do it the right way, they should put it up for a constitutional amendment. lol. In principle, I'm totally against it. Banning free speech is crazy. And like the meme suggests, it's a VERY slippery slope. And you know those parasites want to go for X next. The only case they have is national security. If it IS Chinese Spyware like they claim and it IS a way to spread Chinese propaganda, then fine. But, the government doesn't have the best track record of telling the truth... ie the Patriot Act
I'm torn...on the one hand, "GTFO, government!"...while on the other hand, "FFF OFF, social media". So...fine, whatever, is where I'm at.
Ngl, it has more Chinese spyware and algorithms than content but I kinda agree
I believe the reason for the ban is the way the app collects data. It not only gets data from the device it’s on but all devices on the same router. It grabs every possible piece of data it can.
Any source on that?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilsayegh/2022/11/09/tiktok-users-are-bleeding-data/ This first article I found from two years ago. I recall listening to a podcast about it and the analyst was stunned about how much different data it collected.
I didn’t see anywhere in there that said they are collecting data from other devices on that router.
Yessir
Follow the money, they’ll axe anything that stands in the way of their insider trading stocks
Elon is part of the system
Conservatives bitched about how Obama was taking their freedom, Trump comes along and allows more anti second amendment laws to pass, even actively saying to take away guns first then due process (not how it works in reality), now the same people are bitching that Biden is taking away their freedoms but cheers on the state of banning something they cannot directly control via backdoor channels. At this point war is not an if but when.
I'm going to disagree here. TikTok is owned by a foreign government. It's not right to allow them to control information that so many people consume. Forcing the sake of definitely the right thing to do and it had nothing to do with free speech.
All social media should be banned for those 13 years old or younger and limited for those under 18 years old.
Parents should raise their own children.
I kinda support it actually and not only cause I really hate it. Still, the idea is that US government has to protect the rights and free speech of it's citizens and it's people. Banning a foreign platform from operating within the country is not the same as "banning free speech". Well as long as you are able to forward and post everything from TikTok on other platforms that is. The message or the "speech" there isn't banned or regulated, therefor 1st amendment isn't violated. Even the platform itself isn't banned.. they were offered an alternative to sell it.
Oh i hope they ban elons x
It's a no brainer. It's Chinese owned propaganda brain washing people. When they found out it wS being banned they literally started messaging people to go against it. You can't own business in China unless you're a Chinese citizen, why should we not follow suit. China is a communist nation and our greatest threat economically. Long story short = communism is bad/evil.
I think the solution here is to preserve a separate archive of all the content on tiktok so that the speech that was made on it remains free.