Unless steel song is able to get multiple flutes going it feels like a really good matchup for ruby/sapphire. Their tinkerbells and grab your swords don't do much against you and most of the time, you're begging them to play a whole new word while you quill away your hand. Depending on the steelsong build tamatoa is also a nightmare for them.
That's usually how I approached the matchup too because I'm absolutely fine if they trade 2 along came zues for tamatoa but they've been running worlds greatest criminal mind lately which makes that line a little more risky
Cogsworth. When i see a cogsworth drop most of the time, i just go ugh but when i am playing steelsong, i just cringe. Unless they quest, not much i can do against him. Ward is just gross on that card.
He gives resist +1 to all others which severely handicaps Steel removal. If 2 hit the field it’s pretty much over as Steel will have a hard time outing him. Shift Cinderella is pretty much the only out
And currently only running 2 shift cindys and if i get them early game, usually inking them if no other cindys down, but might be worth putting in more.
Which I get but they are both gonna be played roughly at the same time. I just haven’t seen him being a huge impossible problem to deal with. An annoyance for sure but not unbearable. Just my opinion, I dislike be prep more than cogs for me haha.
I think the difference is Cindy has to come down as a shift to be effective against Cogs. If not they will get a turn to answer before she can strike.
Also think it depends on the game situation. Cogs coming down when Steel/Song is already behind makes it that much harder to come back. Be Prepared typically only comes down if the player is behind and uses most if not all ink allowing Steel/Song to recover quickly.
As someone who just got to masters only playing bluesteel
I can tell you firsthand that cogsworth into steel is disgusting
I have 5 turns to kill your small cinderellas until I drop cogsworth
If I drop another cogsworth on turn 6, its usually wraps for amber steel. 2 cogsworth means big cindy cant even kill 1 on her own anymore.
So youd need to dump a grab your swords AND swing with big cindy to do it. And at that point. Its just terrible card advantage for amber steel
Only counter-play that has consistently givin me trouble is going wide early af and ripping my grab your swords with bare necessities
Also killing my smee on turn 2/3 with strength of raging fire hurts early board state and is awkward to play turn 4 that will kill a small cindy. And if the other player is good enough. They will recognize they need small cindy up and wont quest or exert it until I have cogsworth out
Other than that. You are literally praying and hoping I dont have cogsworth
Blue steel is usually quite good vs steel song.
You can tune it better for aggro matchups. Fire the cannons and ba boom are both great cards vs early threats like Cinderella and Cogsworth is the bane of other steel decks.
Both Ursula’s removing songs while taking a peak into your hand is one of ambers strengths feels bad when it happens to the bare necessities holder. Double singing sudden chill then dropping Lucifer also hurts.
Medusa and Tremaine hurt bad not only do they remove aerials/ and shift targets they put a body that can trade with everything cept big Cindy and shift hood.
Rush cards are good cause they can be played when you need them, avoiding damage cards. However, then you may run into ink issues b/c character cards may still be in your hand. Ramping up your ink is a good way to counter this, but takes some planning. Although, the planning is hard to do because a whole new world can change what you are able to do.
I personally like sapphire cards such as cogsworth to limit damage from songs. A double cogsworth can be an iron shield of protection. Just some thoughts.
Comments have already mentioned it, but 2drop Emerald Ursula is a strong counter. I am running Amethyst/Emerald and bouncing her in and out is extremely effective at keeping those removal songs out of the picture. It isn't perfect because just about any steel song will remove any worthwhile emerald character, but last night I went 4-3 against 3 separate steelsong decks at a LGS league night (0-2, 2-0, 2-1). Below is my take:
The worst thing that can happen is singin' cindi T1, Let the Storm Rage On T2, then another removal song T3/4. By that point you might be running low on cards to get back on your feet. They have likely played an Ariel at this point as well, so now there's a strong chance they have more song ammo to throw at you.
I think the response is to play conservative until you can be sure most of the songs are out of their hand, or at least know what they are so you can account for them. Maintain your draw rate early to maximize your options. If you are forcing songs to their discard and using Fox/Snake Mim to remove characters, there's a good chance they are gonna AWNW at some point, so plan accordingly and don't let those Friends on the Other Side/Maleficent go to waste. Soft removal is your friend in emerald, with cards like Mother knows Best, Kit Cloudkicker, 6drop Genie, and scary Yzma. Keep bouncing both yours and their characters in and out mid to late game to keep their robinhood, big cindi, sad beast, etc. from doing much. Once they do come out, it's important to have Fox Mim, Goat-lin, and Crab-lin available to give you the boost you need to remove them. Crab-lin effect on Fox Mim or Goat-lin will let you remove all significant steel threats.
BBB and Gruesome and Grim should work in this deck, but both are uninkable so I haven't found space for them yet.
Alternatively, Ruby/Sapphire doesn't care much about steelsong. Early game Ru/Sa is ramping so the songs don't have as much effect. It does become important to hit your own removal options hard as soon as you get them to avoid falling too far into a lore deficit, but if you can manage it, your top heavy deck should be able to catch up quickly. Tamatoa and Lucky Dime are obvious favorites, but I have found that BLT Mickey is a great addition to Ru/Sa to help push you over the edge.
Well it really depends on the type of steelsong deck being played (i.e. lanterns, flutes, etc.) each one has their own strategy.
In general, steel song can struggle against any steel deck. Using a whole new world can give your opponent just as much removal and bodies as it does to you, and put them in a better position. Additionally, steel has item removal which means lanterns and flutes can be taken out.
So really any Green/steel, sapphire/steel can outperform steelsong (this also goes the other way as well though).
Where the deck really struggles is against Red, so red/purple and red/blue due to the board wipes. The flutes are a good counter for red/purple as they give another avenue to gain lore, but the steelsong deck has to be more piloted as a control deck in that scenario, its really easy to misplay.
My Ursula discard deck does pretty well against steelsong with the right draw. With Pluto, I can get Ursula out on turn 2 and have them top decking by turn 4 or 5. Even if they get flutes out, I can easily outpace them in lore unless they get a lucky Grab Your Sword draw.
Green and what other color? I really wanna run green purple but fear not having a chance against steel. Then again I want to compete against red purple and make sure aggro can’t sneak past me. Probably too much wishing lol but trying to figure out how to situate myself
Yeah, every deck has weakness against certain color combos. You could definitely run amethyst with it. The bounce package keeps you somewhat insulated against ruby and steel. The emerald can force discard of steels songs. I run it with amber as a semi-aggro deck and Bare Necessities helps with dumping locations and items from their hand.
Ive had good success running sapphire/ruby items with dimes
Keep the board under control for the early game, aggressively look for a quill. Around turn 4-6 depending on how aggressive you ramp you can start playing Mauis, Tremaines and Madusas for hard removal on their shifted big characters
Steel Song struggles most against other Steel Song when going second
Cogsworth is tough, got to use Swords or Big Cindy or limit their resources so they have to quest with it
Red/Blue is tough as well, need to use Bare Necessities to get rid of timely Be Preps, World's Greatest to get rid of Tamatoa, multiple small characters to fight Medusa and Tremaine, and Flutes to finish the game after several board wipes
Emerald Steel is strong as it rips songs, if you rip their AWNW it stunts them a lot, and if you bounce that Ursula and rip another song again, they get stuck for few turns and tempo is shot
Emerald/steel discard running 4 Ursulas in theory works pretty well if you can get it running early. They can't play songs if they don't have them and they can't play much if their hand is empty.
Honestly, their biggest weakness is luck...
If they don't draw their flutes then late game becomes painful for them in the Ruby/Amethyst matchup.
If they draw all of their un-inkables early as well since they play such a high count of them.
Whiffing with Ariel sets them back especially if they have to send Flutes to the bottom.
Going second, while your opponent has steel removal cards or teeth and ambitions loaded to get rid of your little bodies (Cinderella).
If they can't keep a singer 5 on board long enough to sing.
A whole new world can help you just as much as them, or be worse for either party.
But besides luck, the only definitive weakness they have would be something like Cogsworth, since he has ward and grants resist to his allies. Two Cogsworth on board can almost definitely shut them out.
The more aggro style steel/song builds using Lantern and Pluto relies on going fast enough to win early, which other steel decks gatekeep relatively well.
Discard builds could slow them down, but a whole new world almost always puts them back in the game followed by grab your sword to effectively clear most Emerald aggro threats and Bucky/Prince John.
Unless steel song is able to get multiple flutes going it feels like a really good matchup for ruby/sapphire. Their tinkerbells and grab your swords don't do much against you and most of the time, you're begging them to play a whole new word while you quill away your hand. Depending on the steelsong build tamatoa is also a nightmare for them.
I specifically look for Tamatoas mid game when playing Develop your brain or brainy Gaston because once it hits the board it stays there.
That's usually how I approached the matchup too because I'm absolutely fine if they trade 2 along came zues for tamatoa but they've been running worlds greatest criminal mind lately which makes that line a little more risky
New renditions now run World's Greatest Criminal Mind which puts tamatoa
SSSSHHH! Don’t warn them!
Cogsworth. When i see a cogsworth drop most of the time, i just go ugh but when i am playing steelsong, i just cringe. Unless they quest, not much i can do against him. Ward is just gross on that card.
Why does he worry you? He can be challenged by big Cindy? At least that’s my main point for Cindy is getting around ward
He gives resist +1 to all others which severely handicaps Steel removal. If 2 hit the field it’s pretty much over as Steel will have a hard time outing him. Shift Cinderella is pretty much the only out
And currently only running 2 shift cindys and if i get them early game, usually inking them if no other cindys down, but might be worth putting in more.
Which I get but they are both gonna be played roughly at the same time. I just haven’t seen him being a huge impossible problem to deal with. An annoyance for sure but not unbearable. Just my opinion, I dislike be prep more than cogs for me haha.
I think the difference is Cindy has to come down as a shift to be effective against Cogs. If not they will get a turn to answer before she can strike. Also think it depends on the game situation. Cogs coming down when Steel/Song is already behind makes it that much harder to come back. Be Prepared typically only comes down if the player is behind and uses most if not all ink allowing Steel/Song to recover quickly.
As someone who just got to masters only playing bluesteel I can tell you firsthand that cogsworth into steel is disgusting I have 5 turns to kill your small cinderellas until I drop cogsworth If I drop another cogsworth on turn 6, its usually wraps for amber steel. 2 cogsworth means big cindy cant even kill 1 on her own anymore. So youd need to dump a grab your swords AND swing with big cindy to do it. And at that point. Its just terrible card advantage for amber steel Only counter-play that has consistently givin me trouble is going wide early af and ripping my grab your swords with bare necessities Also killing my smee on turn 2/3 with strength of raging fire hurts early board state and is awkward to play turn 4 that will kill a small cindy. And if the other player is good enough. They will recognize they need small cindy up and wont quest or exert it until I have cogsworth out Other than that. You are literally praying and hoping I dont have cogsworth
Blue steel is usually quite good vs steel song. You can tune it better for aggro matchups. Fire the cannons and ba boom are both great cards vs early threats like Cinderella and Cogsworth is the bane of other steel decks.
Both Ursula’s removing songs while taking a peak into your hand is one of ambers strengths feels bad when it happens to the bare necessities holder. Double singing sudden chill then dropping Lucifer also hurts. Medusa and Tremaine hurt bad not only do they remove aerials/ and shift targets they put a body that can trade with everything cept big Cindy and shift hood.
Rush cards are good cause they can be played when you need them, avoiding damage cards. However, then you may run into ink issues b/c character cards may still be in your hand. Ramping up your ink is a good way to counter this, but takes some planning. Although, the planning is hard to do because a whole new world can change what you are able to do. I personally like sapphire cards such as cogsworth to limit damage from songs. A double cogsworth can be an iron shield of protection. Just some thoughts.
Comments have already mentioned it, but 2drop Emerald Ursula is a strong counter. I am running Amethyst/Emerald and bouncing her in and out is extremely effective at keeping those removal songs out of the picture. It isn't perfect because just about any steel song will remove any worthwhile emerald character, but last night I went 4-3 against 3 separate steelsong decks at a LGS league night (0-2, 2-0, 2-1). Below is my take: The worst thing that can happen is singin' cindi T1, Let the Storm Rage On T2, then another removal song T3/4. By that point you might be running low on cards to get back on your feet. They have likely played an Ariel at this point as well, so now there's a strong chance they have more song ammo to throw at you. I think the response is to play conservative until you can be sure most of the songs are out of their hand, or at least know what they are so you can account for them. Maintain your draw rate early to maximize your options. If you are forcing songs to their discard and using Fox/Snake Mim to remove characters, there's a good chance they are gonna AWNW at some point, so plan accordingly and don't let those Friends on the Other Side/Maleficent go to waste. Soft removal is your friend in emerald, with cards like Mother knows Best, Kit Cloudkicker, 6drop Genie, and scary Yzma. Keep bouncing both yours and their characters in and out mid to late game to keep their robinhood, big cindi, sad beast, etc. from doing much. Once they do come out, it's important to have Fox Mim, Goat-lin, and Crab-lin available to give you the boost you need to remove them. Crab-lin effect on Fox Mim or Goat-lin will let you remove all significant steel threats. BBB and Gruesome and Grim should work in this deck, but both are uninkable so I haven't found space for them yet. Alternatively, Ruby/Sapphire doesn't care much about steelsong. Early game Ru/Sa is ramping so the songs don't have as much effect. It does become important to hit your own removal options hard as soon as you get them to avoid falling too far into a lore deficit, but if you can manage it, your top heavy deck should be able to catch up quickly. Tamatoa and Lucky Dime are obvious favorites, but I have found that BLT Mickey is a great addition to Ru/Sa to help push you over the edge.
Well it really depends on the type of steelsong deck being played (i.e. lanterns, flutes, etc.) each one has their own strategy. In general, steel song can struggle against any steel deck. Using a whole new world can give your opponent just as much removal and bodies as it does to you, and put them in a better position. Additionally, steel has item removal which means lanterns and flutes can be taken out. So really any Green/steel, sapphire/steel can outperform steelsong (this also goes the other way as well though). Where the deck really struggles is against Red, so red/purple and red/blue due to the board wipes. The flutes are a good counter for red/purple as they give another avenue to gain lore, but the steelsong deck has to be more piloted as a control deck in that scenario, its really easy to misplay.
My playgroup plays emerald steel control a lot and has made most attempts at steeling not work too well.
My Ursula discard deck does pretty well against steelsong with the right draw. With Pluto, I can get Ursula out on turn 2 and have them top decking by turn 4 or 5. Even if they get flutes out, I can easily outpace them in lore unless they get a lucky Grab Your Sword draw.
Green and what other color? I really wanna run green purple but fear not having a chance against steel. Then again I want to compete against red purple and make sure aggro can’t sneak past me. Probably too much wishing lol but trying to figure out how to situate myself
Yeah, every deck has weakness against certain color combos. You could definitely run amethyst with it. The bounce package keeps you somewhat insulated against ruby and steel. The emerald can force discard of steels songs. I run it with amber as a semi-aggro deck and Bare Necessities helps with dumping locations and items from their hand.
Ursula and removal - meaning steel. Seriously, removing their board makes them helpless.
Ive had good success running sapphire/ruby items with dimes Keep the board under control for the early game, aggressively look for a quill. Around turn 4-6 depending on how aggressive you ramp you can start playing Mauis, Tremaines and Madusas for hard removal on their shifted big characters
Steel Song struggles most against other Steel Song when going second Cogsworth is tough, got to use Swords or Big Cindy or limit their resources so they have to quest with it Red/Blue is tough as well, need to use Bare Necessities to get rid of timely Be Preps, World's Greatest to get rid of Tamatoa, multiple small characters to fight Medusa and Tremaine, and Flutes to finish the game after several board wipes
Emerald Steel is strong as it rips songs, if you rip their AWNW it stunts them a lot, and if you bounce that Ursula and rip another song again, they get stuck for few turns and tempo is shot
Emerald/steel discard running 4 Ursulas in theory works pretty well if you can get it running early. They can't play songs if they don't have them and they can't play much if their hand is empty.
Blue
I play steel song. I hate Let it Go. I know, it's basically a taste of my own medicine, but it still pisses me off. Lol
Honestly, their biggest weakness is luck... If they don't draw their flutes then late game becomes painful for them in the Ruby/Amethyst matchup. If they draw all of their un-inkables early as well since they play such a high count of them. Whiffing with Ariel sets them back especially if they have to send Flutes to the bottom. Going second, while your opponent has steel removal cards or teeth and ambitions loaded to get rid of your little bodies (Cinderella). If they can't keep a singer 5 on board long enough to sing. A whole new world can help you just as much as them, or be worse for either party. But besides luck, the only definitive weakness they have would be something like Cogsworth, since he has ward and grants resist to his allies. Two Cogsworth on board can almost definitely shut them out. The more aggro style steel/song builds using Lantern and Pluto relies on going fast enough to win early, which other steel decks gatekeep relatively well. Discard builds could slow them down, but a whole new world almost always puts them back in the game followed by grab your sword to effectively clear most Emerald aggro threats and Bucky/Prince John.