Google Paul Aston and watch a video review on these. Also of note, the retraction issue on the Cura 4s has been resolved apparently. They’re a good option. Pricing is fantastic. Mineral oil simplicity. Run 220 rotors if you need to.
Hey, young bike mechanic here. I’ve tested a lot of brakes and serviced even more. So I’ll give you some hint to help you make the good choice for you. I’ll also add some more brakes that you didn’t list.
First, let’s talk about brake fluids, despite various brands marketing, in the end, it doesn’t matter. Both are great and have pros and cons. The thing that really matters is the brake design. In case you still care, I’ll precise the fluid type.
* SRAM Codes (Dot fluid)
Easy to modulate and very powerful The modulation also means that you don’t get that on/off feeling (like shim brakes) and some might find the initial bite not powerful enough for their taste. I advise getting RSC version, it is much better than the others. I also advise not buying it full price, they are easy to find for a lower cost, or for 150-200 bucks as second hands.
* SRAM Maven (mineral oil)
VERY powerful, at the cost of weight Much more power than codes, or atleast on the first 50% of the lever stroke. Overall not a huge difference in total power but a very defined one early on. It means that you need to pull less lever in order to achieve same power. Still get that sram modulation. I would recommend them if you’re on the heavy side, ride an e-bike or ride hard. Otherwise you probably won’t get them hot enough to unleash their power. Also don’t slam the biggest rotor you can find. A smaller one might give you more power if it gets to the right temps.
* Shimano SAINT (mineral oil)
on/off feeling, delivers a lot of power on the initial bite Might be take some time to finely modulate them N°1 concern is the inconsistency of the initial bite point
* Shimano XT (mineral oil)
Similar power to Saint, same pros and cons Lighter but less sturdy
* Hope tech 4 (E4 or V4) (Dot fluid)
Very powerful brakes, looks awesome, easy to modulate, powerful initial brake, a lot of color mix match possibilities But VERY expensive Annoying bleeding procedure the first time you do it.
Your choice between E4 and V4 is primarily your weight or riding style. Hope has a chart you can find that might help you make a choice. But to make it short, V4 is more powerful than E4. It’s most noticeable on initial bite.
* Magura (Mineral oil)
I noticed you didn’t like the levers but you should be aware they have many different shapes available. They are probably the best mix of modulation and initial bite You also can choose between 4 separated pads for more modulation or 2 pads for more initial bite. The bleeding procedure is messy.
* Hayes Dominion (Dot fluid)
Modulation, modulation, modulation. Power is average. Terrible QC. If you get a good unit, these are really good brakes with an emphasis on braking control.
* Formula cura (Mineral oil)
I have not tried these yet so the only thing I can tell you about them is that they’re easy to bleed.
So here it is. Hope it was helpful. If you have any question I’d be glad to help you.
Ride safe
Edit : I forgot something important :
DISC CHOICE MATTERS ! Even if you buy the super expensive trickstuff maxima it will not perform its best if you pair them with 15€ discs. Just make sure you get a nice quality disc, & that they are compatible with your brakes (most will be compatible, but you may encounter a few super thick rotors that won't fit (ie : Hope V4 discs).
If it can help you choose, here are some good discs :
Hope floating rotors, Sram HS2, Shimano XT (ice tech), Magura MDR-P, most Galfer discs
More comments like this, can’t appreciate responses enough so thx!
Also, when you bleed rear magura brake, do you have any special trick on how to bleed them even better? I can bleed them decently but not like my mechanic, sometimes I just have to do it on my own when I travel.
Front always bleeds 10-15% better than rear, the bite is just not the same when I bleed rear hehe
If the bike has external routing, I take them off the bike & do the bleeding on my workbench.
Otherwise, you can tilt your bike in order to make your path from caliper to lever as vertical as possible. You could also try to use 2 syringes like for a sram bleeding instead of the funnel. It is also normal that you spill some oil when putting back the bleeding screw on your lever.
Keep in mind that due to the length of the brake hose, it is normal for the rear to feel **slightly** worse than the front (in case both are perfectly bled).
That helps you to play with orientation of the caliper. You let the lever flat on the bench and you hold the caliper below it and while keeping the bleed port up you can play with it’s orientation. It usually help with getting a perfect bleed.
This works with every brakes, but I mostly do it with magura’s since they are very sensitive to air bubbles.
Thanks dor the inout man! Yep, I already do the tilts but sadly indeed have only one syringe, That was my first thought that I need to replace it, now that you mention I’ll just order another. The top one is just a bucket which I don’t like. Pivot has all internal routings and I’ll have to deal with tilts heheh.
I was thinking its only logical to be sma tid bit more squishy but not like mine. The front bite is almost instant, the rear is 1/3 in, I’d expect few milimeters but not like this much hehe.
I tried to overfill but doesn’t work either😅
Thx man! Quick question, when you’re done bleeding. What are the steps that you take to wrap things up. I feel that I’m failing that part after I’m done with getting bubbles out. Can you describe it in steps?
When I’m doing with the double syringe setup, I close one side, remove the syringe and then press on the other syringe a few times (gently) to pressurise the system.
Then I remove it and put back the bleeding screw.
You’ll spill some oil when taking off the syringe and when placing back the screw, that’s normal.
Magura has absolutely horrible drag. I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned it because it’s almost impossible to set them drag free with 4 brake pads per caliper. I have MT7 and not satisfied. There is so little space between pads that your rotor needs to be completely straight.
Never felt it was harder to center a magura caliper compared to others.
The one that comes to my mind which is noticeable harder to set drag free are the Hope ones. The space between disc & pads is much smaller than most other brands, but you get used to it.
If it can help, try to center your caliper without the pads in place. It usually is much easier to center the caliper that way.
Here are some tips that I use and work 99% of the time to avoid dragging issues.
- Align your caliper with disc (without pads)
- make sure your rotor is straight
- make sure your 4 pistons are synchronised, you want all of them to move the same amount at the same time. You want to clean the pistons and lube them and then sync them. You’ll have to watch closely and push back some pistons if needed.
This can be tricky to do but that is a game changer. It will help with dragging and will also make the initial bite feel much stronger and precise.
You’ll find some YouTube tutorials for this.
I’ve read good things about them, but I’ve never seen one in person or heard of someone using them around me or at my shop.
And ofc my recommendations are based of my experience so no trps here.
Formula Cura 4 is an absolutely fantastic brake. I've run them on my bike for 3 years now and had zero issues. Only need to bleed them once a year. Great modulation, power is consistent and never had any fade even at long days in the bike park. You won't be disappointed.
I agree i have Formual Cura 4 on both my bikes and they are amazing the power, modulation bleeding them is quite easy and you can actually get a 2piece lever for some more adjustability.
How about the TRP DHR Evo's? Looking at those and the Hayes A4. So basically I got Hope V4's back in February, and my Fox X2 blew up so that was being warrantied and I left the Tech 4's in the box till March when I got my shock back.
To my unpleasant surprise, they had leaked a decent amount of dot fluid out of the lever. Not gonna trust those anymore, I am in the process of returning them. Sucks because I really liked the way they felt (my friend got a set before I did).
I am about 150lbs kitted up riding SoCal tech and jumps, currently on Code RSC's, which have lots of power but I am not enjoying the stiff lever feel and I also fade them on gnarly descents (like the double black trail Ladders at Vailocity bike park). I think the fade thing might just be them needing a bleed, I haven't bleed them since June 2022 when I got the bike, but I would like to praise them for how damn reliable they are, they bite pretty much always the same and are very consistent, feeling almost exactly like how I got them.
Some first batches of tech 4 had issues (and are covered by warranty off).
I’m currently running tech 4 V4 and code RSC and while I still like the codes, I much prefer the V4’s.
The light lever feel does make the difference for me.
About trps I’ve never seen any nor heard of it in person.
Yeah I got them from Merlin, and they are being a bitch about it. I am in CA and they want me to pay $320 to ship em back to the UK. Nearly 2/3 of the price of the brake to ship them back as they are a faulty product????!!! Horrible experience, don't order from those scumbags.
Oof I feel bad for you, that’s not a good shop.
I recommend you to directly contact Hope, they should take good care of your case.
Let me know how it worked out, but I’m confident in their customer service.
Dude thank you for that answer. If you don't mind, may I ask you something really quick?
I have SRAM Codes RSC with 180mm SRAM HS2 discs on an Epic EVO - Yes they may be an overkill, but there are really long descents where I live and my old brakes(SRAM G2) tended to fade so I decided to go with Codes RSC.
My Codes RSC are behaving more like Shimano (on/off) than SRAM (modular). They are not being progressive at all. I see no speed reduction until the levers reach the bite point.
I tried all the different settings for the Reach and Contact Point Adjust dials. I bled them a couple of times.
Could you please provide me any advice on this?
Hey, would be a pleasure to help you !
The codes are more powerful than G2s so ofc you’ll feel a much stronger initial bite.
Have you tried playing with the contact point adjustment ?
Also, maybe you should try different pads, it can make a massive difference and help you reach the feeling you are after.
Organic, semi metallic, sintered, ceramic, all have different properties and will provide a different feeling, especially on the first bite.
Oh and have you tried with your stock rotors (should be sram centerline) ? Hs2 provides a much firmer feel compared to a thinner rotor.
Hope it helped, ping me back after you’ve tried that.
Yes, I have played with the Contact Point Adjustment. It totally makes a difference but it didn't help me to find the progressiveness I'm after.
I would definitely need to try different pads. Which ones would you recommend for progressive speed reduction on long decents?
Yes, my stock rotors were SRAM Centerlines (You are the boss ) - Sadly, I sold them with my old brakes. I should probably get a new pair to try your recommendation
Tbh I don’t really like centerlines, but I just suggested it in case you kept them.
I also run codes RSC on one of my bikes, I previously had it paired with centerlines and now HS2 and I much prefer them.
I still find them easy to modulate but with a firmer feel. I run them with sintered pads.
In case you really wanna grab a pair of centerlines, you should be able to find them for cheap as second hand since many bikes come equipped with.
Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it.
Yes, I also prefer the HS2 over the Centerlines, they give me more confidence and no heating issues.
My Codes are using metallic pads right now so I would definitely try with other ones.
Thank you for the list of options! Right now I just got a 2nd hand bike, with Avid DB3 and not really liking the feeling of it. I was thinking of going to Shigura, but I have not tried most of the brakes in your lists, other than shim & sram.
Most of the bikes I've owned/tried previously were ranges of Shimanos. Out of all the options which ones feel the closest/similar to the on/off feel? I wanted to try something new, but with as close feeling that is not Shimano. I don't need very strong brakes since, I don't do downhill, mostly Enduro.
I guess magura’s mt7 could be your thing. The initial bite is very strong if well bled.
Note that the feeling can be affected by your lever, so you should take a look at some reviews of différents magura’s levers.
Also pad material makes a difference.
Hayes Dominion. As easy as that.
I have ridden Sram Code RSC, Sram Code Ultimate, Magura MT7, Saint, TRP DH-R, XTR.
None of these are as good as the Hayes, and many are more expensive.
Hope or Lewis might be a good call as well as i havent tried them, but heard they are good. And of course if you have infinite money the two best brakes on the market should be Intend and Trickstuff, but im not that rich.
They are way better. WAY better. I never came across a set of codes that felt so beautifully smooth in the lever action, or as powerful as the dominions. I will pretty much only run hayes from now on.
Yes, 100% imo, the lever feel is extremely light requireing almost no effort to press the breaks, which introduces way less fatigue over a day riding tham what SRAM does. At the same time the modulation is at least as good as the SRAM Codes and the peak power is on par with Saints.
They also use Dot fluid which makes it significamtly easier to bleed. Because when you dont need to replace the fluid you can in 90% of cases do a 1-side bleed from the lever, removing air in the system by creating a vacuum in the syringe.
Lastly they have these small ajuster screws which makes it easier to perfectly allign the caliper on the rotor.
I also ride dominion a4. They are bar none the best brakes I have ever ridden.
On the opposite, saints are the worse brake I ever used. If you want Shimano, might as well go for XT (with 4 Pistons).
I bought 4 pairs of dominion a4 at this point from https://www.bike-discount.de/en/ . Shipping is high to US, but if you need other things, their prices are good enough that it makes up for it. Ding forget to get rotors!
I actually felt the same way about the Saints ... Maybe my expectations were too high, but I hated them compared to the 4 piston XTs, used different pads, rotors bye the Saints just never felt good no matter what I tried, plus they were louder than anything else I've ridden which were kinda annoying.
Dominion is the one brand I've yet to try but want to. What kind/size rotors you using with your A4s?
203mm front and rear. I like having the same part as much as possible. Simplify lots of things. I run same pedals, handlebar, brake setup, etc. on all my bikes.
The only thing I don’t like about the dominions I put on my wife’s bike over the XT and hopes I have on my bikes is the bleeding. The dominions don’t have bleed nipples, only set screws (like sram), so you can’t moto bleed and you’ll always get a tiny amount of air into the caliper when you disconnect the syringe. Oh that reminds me there’s a 2nd thing I don’t like about the dominions, you have to remove the caliper (or the wheel I guess) to remove the pads, they don’t come out the top so you can’t do quick pad swaps and you can’t use a jig to center the caliper, but that does mean the pads have less play in the caliper than any other brakes I’ve run into.
Performance on the bike really does negate those small annoyances. They somehow managed to make the brake have all the good feels without any of the tradeoffs it has a light lever action without being mushy, makes tons of power with short action without feeling wooden.
You remove the wheel to swap the pads. It takes an extra 30 seconds. IMO the fact that the pads cannot fall out is a nice safety backup.
I really like the performance on my Hayes brakes. They're sufficiently better that when I get on a bike with SRAM brakes I think something is broken for the first few stops.
I will say that they're a PITA to bleed and they are prone to dragging pads, in part because they seem to leave a smaller pad-rotor gap than other brakes and in part because the pistons get sticky and don't evenly retract.
I ran dominions and when it came time to service them, I couldn't even get the bike shop to get them to stop leaking at the master cylinder. They are in my parts graveyard now.
I've heard good things about Shigura. Shimano levers combined with Magura calipers. I'm currently building up a combo of XT 8100 levers and MT7 calipers. I'm gonna run Magura rotors as well.
Saints, have not had arm pump with Shimano like I have had with Hayes and SRAM. Have not tried Formula. But, if you are going to travel keep it simple or stock up on parts. Everyone has Shim/Sram
Loved my old set of Formula CURA 4. Very reliable, very strong, parts available to rebuild stuff instead of just buying all new (shimano masters for example).
205lb rider on a dh bike at the time.
I’ve been through a few different sets of brakes over years and always come back to hope for the performance and ease of servicing.
On my current bike I’m running E4’s but on my DH bike I used to run V4’s.
The only brake that has ever come close to hope for my were the TRP gwin spec. They looked great and felt amazing but I didn’t own the bike long enough to have to service them in any way
* Mavins
* Code RSC
* and (surprisingly) DB8
the latter have the simplest levers but actually the same pads like codes and are quite strong on a budget. I like TRP and Trickstuff, too, but they have not been on your list
Used to have the Curas on my old bike, by far the best brakes Ive ridden. Awesome modulation, super consistent even on long descents, and impressive amounts of power for a two piston brake. They make a four pot version too if youre heavier and/or ride very hard. Theyre very very easy to install and bleed, too. They feel similar to SRAM brakes in that the bite point isnt quite as rock hard as on Shimanos. Its personal, but I find that kind of lever feel much easier to modulate. My only mild complaint is that the leaver adjustment needs a little allen key and is akward to reach, but if thats fine for you I really cant recommend them enough.
I’m thinking about buying this 2 piston version because I heard that they are super powerful. Do you have a reference to other 4 piston brakes?
Can you compare the braking power?
I have Srame Code Rs now which are four pot, they feel overall pretty similar, perhaps a little bitier than the Formulas. I never, ever ran out of stopping power on the Curas. They were meant to compete with four pot trail/ enduro brakes and they do. If you value silky smooth supple modulation over having the absolute most powerful brakes, youll love the 2 pot Cura.
Super thank you, now i have sram guide rs 4 pot but they're super old and they they stop working halfway down the descent . The 2 pot curas are neerly half pice comparing to saints or codes so its tempting solution
Hayes Manitou have a bit of a fucked supply chain in Europe. There’s a rumour there’s a new distribution deal from September that should see things improve.
Code rsc with trickstuff pads and rotors are an absolute beast but id rather recommend a brake with mineral oil. Shimano xt with sinter metallic pads and saint or xtr discs or galfer or trickstuff combo give you the the pest performance for your money. Havent tested the formula cura yet but reviews seem pretty good.
for reference i tested magura shimano and sram on a Turbo Levo and Orbea Wild in bike parks with a system weight colse to 140kg and i liked the stock performance of the maguras the most but understand that not all like the plastic feel of the levers.
I installed the mt5 pro on my bike and replaced the levers with the oak root levers. Its not generally better in performance (maybe a bit in break consistence) but it feels way better and you can adjust the reach of the levers.
But its some extra $$ you might dont want to spend for it.
I dont care about levers that much as i only ride with gloves and have fucked up soldier/mechanic hands. But i can understand that some expect a more premium feel at that price.
Higher tier brakes are all more or less great.
Feel will be different between brands but there’s more to it than modulation or lack of it.
I would not buy brakes that have side-specific cylinder or lever. That is simply user-hostile and wasteful design.
I ride both Codes and Formula Cura 4.
I’ve been with Shimano’s XT 8120, performance is alright, but as I find out on my own experience quite frequently they have a leaking lever seals, and they are don’t like to be stored “upright” against the wall, front brake comes spongy in just 10 days of time.
Code RSC is good choice if you can get them on fare offer.
The best for me is TRP’s DH-R, minimum maintenance, just fit and keep them clean. Great stopping performance and bite, nice lever feel. And they are looking awesome!
Just recently fitted some Cura 4s to my Sentinel. Really impressed. More power than the Hope E4s that they replaced. Nice feel and lots of modulation.
Also cheaper than a lot of the other top of the line brakes.
Will probably get another set for my next bike.
Brakes are very personal, you'll need to try them on a long descent to figure out what you like most.
I've owned MT7, MT5, Tech 4 e4 & v4, Code rsc, shimano xt, zee, saint, trp.
They all have their pros and cons. For me it's probably Magura > TRP > Hope > shimano > sram. I get along well with Magura/TRP/Hope and can't really stand shimano or sram.
None are perfect. The closest I've found is TRP with aftermarket levers, but that was $$$.
I completely forgot, I have them on my DH bike. I don't ride them often enough to have a strong opinion, but they have a pretty neutral feel that is easy to adjust to (similar to magura or TRP compared to something like SRAM or XT). I never service them and they work every year. I don't even need to bleed them. They've been very reliable. The only complaint I have is that if you have issues you'll probably need to order stuff (ie: service kits, pads). I just keep a small stock of pads and I've been fine.
The rotor I've found to stay true longest w/ good bite is the 2.3mm TRP, but it's very heavy and most calipers can't accept a rotor this thick.
I like the Magura MDR-P and Hope floating disks but both are a pain to true. The MDR-P took me a long time to warp and make super cool noises when they cool down, but they are a bit heavy. The Hopes are light but I've fought them on getting true out of the package and they tended to warp faster. Overall if you just want something low maintenance I'd probably shy away from multiple piece rotors.
I've recently started trying the shimano xtr rotors. They are freaking light and seem to be holding true reasonably well however you are limited to center lock and they are too narrow for a lot of calipers.
The R's do, the RSC's are awesome. Damn reliable brakes with the only issues I have had with them being the stiff ass lever feel. Tons of power and modulation, but they bite HARD with my 220/200 rotors and sintered pads. The hard lever feel is a dealbreaker for me though, so I am deciding between TRP DHR Evo and Hayes A4. I thought my Code's were far more powerful than the Deore M6120 I tried. Shimano brakes are overrated AF, and the wandering bite point and lack of modulation or spare parts available sucks.
I had sram RS and they lacked power even with the HSR disc brakes.
On long descents they overheated. The modulation sucks. You have to push the levers way to hard.
Since I run magura MT7 I never go back to sram.
Yeah I experience the overheating and hard to pull levers. I think I just need a bleed for the overheating/fade though. Can't get past the lever pull. My friend has MT5's and I think they are pretty good, very similar power and initial bite to my RSC's. I have heard pretty bad things about their reliability though, and they make their levers out of fucking plastic! Great power and modulation on Magura's though.
Ah yes the 0.5NM torque spec strikes again! Do the Shigura's have the issue with wandering bite point? Might have to do MT7 caliper with a Shimano lever if not.
I run Saints, got them for a killer deal nearly two years ago (LordGun @249 Total F/R) and they’ve been absolutely great for my 220lb chunky ass.
Parts are readily available and aren’t overly inflated being the New New
Have a bike with Cura’s 4 and Sram codes RSC. Have love for both, but the Cura’s eke it out for me.
Both feel progressive and have good control, but I feel like the Cura’s have more power to snap on when I need it. Could have just been personal experience, but I did have to play around with the codes a bit more to get them to work how I want. Cura’s were more or less on the money when I got them.
I just bought a set of Formula Cura-4s. They weigh less than Shimano XT while costing a bit more than SLX. I haven’t had a chance to mount them yet, but the price to performance seems promising. The pads look huge. The lever finish leaves a bit to be desired, but I think they have an upgrade available. The caliper doesn’t have a banjo bolt connection so it might be tricky to mount depending on your frame design. I can provide an update this week once I get them mounted on my bike.
Been running hope Tech3/E4 and now Tech4/E4 for the last 4ish years. Currently running them on a heavy E-Bike and racing so they see lots of abuse.
I have previously ran Shimano, SRAM, Magura and Formula brake systems.
For the price point I don’t think you can beat Hope. They look great and fall within a good value for what you get.
I also feel like they are easier to setup than some others and they hold their setup well. Hope seems to put a lot of R&D into making these things work.
I prefer Shimano because they use less hazardous oil/fluid. Also because I had a really bad experience with SRAM eagle transmission durability. My impression is that SRAM marketing tries to pitch minors advantages over Shimano but at high price in terms of durability/ease of adjustment/maintenance costs.
Personally, I’d get a set of Hope Tech 4 V4 and order yourself a couple spare lever blades when you place the order. Pretty cheap, easy to replace. Brake pads are also only $20-25 per set. Super powerful- I love them.
Heard a lot of good things about the Curas and the Dominions. Both have good power and sufficient modulation.
Sram brakes tend to give riders a lot of fatigue in the hand due to their stiffer springs in the levers.
Shimano brakes are very powerful but tend to sweat brake fluid which makes them noisy and a bit of a hand full in the maintenance department.
Check out the link below to see a fair comparison between the most popular 4-piston brakes. (It is a bit old, but gives you a good idea of the differences between brands)
[https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/](https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/)
What kinda riding do you plan on doing and what have you used in the past and liked/disliked? Brakes is such a polarizing topic cause a lot of people despise SRAM. I understand why, but there's also a ton of people, myself included, who love them cause of their modulation.
If you want an instant bite with strong stopping power, especially at the bike park and riding DH, the Saints are a popular choice. The Hope brakes kinda fall somewhere in the middle, closer to Shimano than SRAM, but it's gotta a lot of stopping power and IMO the best lever feel I've tried. I also really like TRP DHR Evo brakes, which have more stopping power but less modulation than the RSCs ...
My personal favorite are the RSCs with HS2 rotors, I just really like that modulation and maybe it's cause I'm a lighter rider, but I've never had any issues with stopping power. Never tried Cura so can't help you on those.
I own formula. They are really good. I would compare formula Cura to SRAM Guide RS only that formula has a lot lot more bite at the end.
Both are the best in modulation, I think a lot of people have beer with guide, but I personally am a big fan.
So all in all, Cura 4 - same great modulation but with extra bite.
I have a set of Formula Cura 4s, mine need a bleed but the bite point is still rock solid, loads of power & a light lever pull. I love them, but it can be a little difficult/ expensive to get spare parts. Would defo recommend tho
Just not the sram brakes, their "modulation" feels more like brake failure when you go from Shimano or Magura. I'm not hating sram since I've got many of them over time and they do make fantastic products, but I haven't come across a single sram brake I was impressed by, nor mine nor when switching bikes with others.
Personally, wouldn't do Shimano Saint, they are getting old now. The XT 4pot BR-M8120 brakes are comparable in power, they have the new mounting standard, the dreaded piston leak is fixed. Also I've never experience braking point drift with new design levers, be it XT or SLX.
How about Shigura? Shimano XTR/XT/SLX Levers + Magura calliper?
I've owned bikes with: Shimano Saint, XT, SLX. SRAM Code R, Code RSC, old elixir. Magura MT7 Pro, MT5. Formula Cura 2. Hayes Stroker Ride.
I would love to try Hope's one day, but it's just very rare you see them on trail. :(
Every review of the Maven slams them for being way to fatigueing to press the lever. Seems the vast majority of riders will not endure a day or even a run in a bikepark without taking breaks to rest hands.
IDK who these people reviewing them are, but I have the Mavens and cannot disagree more. It takes very little effort to pull the lever - significantly less effort than the TRPs I used to have. They also don’t require much pull.
The hopes. They are a wee bit boutique but the attention to detail and engineering quality is unrivaled in my opinion. TheY are a small(ish) company in the UK and I think are also unrivaled in terms of serviceability. All the spare parts remain available basically forever and they make all small parts very easy to get a hold of. All of this especially rings true if you live in the UK.
They are really powerful as well with a lovely lever feel. Cannot recommend them enough, they are the best upgrade I ever made! I run the tech 4 e4s.
What about the newer Shimano XT 8120's 4-piston?
I just got a new set of Saints and they're great. One downside is I don't like the spec B mounting options. I don't see a huge difference yet between the Saints and the BR-M8020's I had on my old bike, most of the parts seem pretty interchangeable. Except for the spec B, sadly.
I would choose the Shimanos. Why? Super reliable, easier to get parts, very nice feeling and powe. Super proven. Second option, Hope, third Formula, and I would discard the Srams, hate those. Also consider the Shimano Zee.
All top 4-piston brakes have more than enough power^\* so it really comes down to preference. I've ridden on Sram Code RSC, Magura MT5 and 7, Shimano Saint and am currently on TRP DHR Evo and my favorites are definitely the TRPs. Close to the "on/off" feeling of Shimano but without any of the hassle of inconsistent brake point, plus I can use my leftover Saint pads. Although I keep hearing incredible praise about the Hayes Dominion A4, and almost every local shop owner/ mechanic is riding with them.
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^(\*)all top 4-piston brakes can (and will) lock the wheels, even if you're going all out on a DH run, so there's no point in getting the strongest ones as the limiting factor is mechanical grip from the tires, not the power of the brakes.
There is no reason to buy SRAM brakes after market. Shimano are fine, very powerful with an on/off feel, but are prone to problems and have fragile lever blades. I'd go for something more interesting. Hope and TRP are great. I've not tried the new Hayes or Formula but they're well-reviewed.
Saint is your way to go as it seems. however, do note that the levers react quite sensitive to your inputs when compared to SRAM and Magura (which both have more modulation) thus leaving very little space between 'No braking' and 'Full force stopping power', some people really like that, some dont'.
I personally use Magura MT5 and swapped the original levers for 1 finger levers which for me is more comfortable to use (i don't like their stock levers either), because i like the modulation and bite of Magura more then Shimano's much more instant stop.
And for the Hope Tech 4 E4 i'd rather go for the Tech V4 variant in that case as far as i heard, many tend to be happy with the ansane stopping power and customizability of these brakes in combination with their floating discs which have plenty of ventilation and cool down faster. However, the only consideration to that is that Hope in general is quite expensive.
And for SRAM, don't even waste your time. They may feel okay at first but it doesn't take long for their brakes to lose way too much stopping power, essentially becoming crap. SRAM is just not good at making brakes.
So personally i'd say from here you can figure the rest out for yourself and test thr brakes on bikes from friends around you to get more knowledge of what you like.
I used to think TRPs were the best, and then mine started failing after 1.5 years. And when I started asking service techs and friends about it, I learned everyone else was having the same issue.
So, TRPs are great…until they’re not.
Go tech 4 v4, not e4. I have both- codes are decent, hope v4s are the absolute best
whats the diffrence between v4 and e4?
V4 has a stronger bite and is designed more for downhill and heavier riders
ok thank you
Im curious about this formula brakes
Google Paul Aston and watch a video review on these. Also of note, the retraction issue on the Cura 4s has been resolved apparently. They’re a good option. Pricing is fantastic. Mineral oil simplicity. Run 220 rotors if you need to.
Hey, young bike mechanic here. I’ve tested a lot of brakes and serviced even more. So I’ll give you some hint to help you make the good choice for you. I’ll also add some more brakes that you didn’t list. First, let’s talk about brake fluids, despite various brands marketing, in the end, it doesn’t matter. Both are great and have pros and cons. The thing that really matters is the brake design. In case you still care, I’ll precise the fluid type. * SRAM Codes (Dot fluid) Easy to modulate and very powerful The modulation also means that you don’t get that on/off feeling (like shim brakes) and some might find the initial bite not powerful enough for their taste. I advise getting RSC version, it is much better than the others. I also advise not buying it full price, they are easy to find for a lower cost, or for 150-200 bucks as second hands. * SRAM Maven (mineral oil) VERY powerful, at the cost of weight Much more power than codes, or atleast on the first 50% of the lever stroke. Overall not a huge difference in total power but a very defined one early on. It means that you need to pull less lever in order to achieve same power. Still get that sram modulation. I would recommend them if you’re on the heavy side, ride an e-bike or ride hard. Otherwise you probably won’t get them hot enough to unleash their power. Also don’t slam the biggest rotor you can find. A smaller one might give you more power if it gets to the right temps. * Shimano SAINT (mineral oil) on/off feeling, delivers a lot of power on the initial bite Might be take some time to finely modulate them N°1 concern is the inconsistency of the initial bite point * Shimano XT (mineral oil) Similar power to Saint, same pros and cons Lighter but less sturdy * Hope tech 4 (E4 or V4) (Dot fluid) Very powerful brakes, looks awesome, easy to modulate, powerful initial brake, a lot of color mix match possibilities But VERY expensive Annoying bleeding procedure the first time you do it. Your choice between E4 and V4 is primarily your weight or riding style. Hope has a chart you can find that might help you make a choice. But to make it short, V4 is more powerful than E4. It’s most noticeable on initial bite. * Magura (Mineral oil) I noticed you didn’t like the levers but you should be aware they have many different shapes available. They are probably the best mix of modulation and initial bite You also can choose between 4 separated pads for more modulation or 2 pads for more initial bite. The bleeding procedure is messy. * Hayes Dominion (Dot fluid) Modulation, modulation, modulation. Power is average. Terrible QC. If you get a good unit, these are really good brakes with an emphasis on braking control. * Formula cura (Mineral oil) I have not tried these yet so the only thing I can tell you about them is that they’re easy to bleed. So here it is. Hope it was helpful. If you have any question I’d be glad to help you. Ride safe Edit : I forgot something important : DISC CHOICE MATTERS ! Even if you buy the super expensive trickstuff maxima it will not perform its best if you pair them with 15€ discs. Just make sure you get a nice quality disc, & that they are compatible with your brakes (most will be compatible, but you may encounter a few super thick rotors that won't fit (ie : Hope V4 discs). If it can help you choose, here are some good discs : Hope floating rotors, Sram HS2, Shimano XT (ice tech), Magura MDR-P, most Galfer discs
More comments like this, can’t appreciate responses enough so thx! Also, when you bleed rear magura brake, do you have any special trick on how to bleed them even better? I can bleed them decently but not like my mechanic, sometimes I just have to do it on my own when I travel. Front always bleeds 10-15% better than rear, the bite is just not the same when I bleed rear hehe
If the bike has external routing, I take them off the bike & do the bleeding on my workbench. Otherwise, you can tilt your bike in order to make your path from caliper to lever as vertical as possible. You could also try to use 2 syringes like for a sram bleeding instead of the funnel. It is also normal that you spill some oil when putting back the bleeding screw on your lever. Keep in mind that due to the length of the brake hose, it is normal for the rear to feel **slightly** worse than the front (in case both are perfectly bled).
Why do you bleed them on the bench, when possible?
That helps you to play with orientation of the caliper. You let the lever flat on the bench and you hold the caliper below it and while keeping the bleed port up you can play with it’s orientation. It usually help with getting a perfect bleed. This works with every brakes, but I mostly do it with magura’s since they are very sensitive to air bubbles.
Thanks dor the inout man! Yep, I already do the tilts but sadly indeed have only one syringe, That was my first thought that I need to replace it, now that you mention I’ll just order another. The top one is just a bucket which I don’t like. Pivot has all internal routings and I’ll have to deal with tilts heheh. I was thinking its only logical to be sma tid bit more squishy but not like mine. The front bite is almost instant, the rear is 1/3 in, I’d expect few milimeters but not like this much hehe. I tried to overfill but doesn’t work either😅
Hope it works out for you with double syringe !
Thx man! Quick question, when you’re done bleeding. What are the steps that you take to wrap things up. I feel that I’m failing that part after I’m done with getting bubbles out. Can you describe it in steps?
When I’m doing with the double syringe setup, I close one side, remove the syringe and then press on the other syringe a few times (gently) to pressurise the system. Then I remove it and put back the bleeding screw. You’ll spill some oil when taking off the syringe and when placing back the screw, that’s normal.
Awesome, I did that few days ago but didnt know if that is something desirable✌️ thank you for confirming! You’re the best!
Magura has absolutely horrible drag. I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned it because it’s almost impossible to set them drag free with 4 brake pads per caliper. I have MT7 and not satisfied. There is so little space between pads that your rotor needs to be completely straight.
Never felt it was harder to center a magura caliper compared to others. The one that comes to my mind which is noticeable harder to set drag free are the Hope ones. The space between disc & pads is much smaller than most other brands, but you get used to it. If it can help, try to center your caliper without the pads in place. It usually is much easier to center the caliper that way.
Yeah but read internet. There are tons of comments about dragging and noises of MT5&7. Lot of people bought different brakes just because of this :(
Here are some tips that I use and work 99% of the time to avoid dragging issues. - Align your caliper with disc (without pads) - make sure your rotor is straight - make sure your 4 pistons are synchronised, you want all of them to move the same amount at the same time. You want to clean the pistons and lube them and then sync them. You’ll have to watch closely and push back some pistons if needed. This can be tricky to do but that is a game changer. It will help with dragging and will also make the initial bite feel much stronger and precise. You’ll find some YouTube tutorials for this.
Thanks. I will try these steps and hope it helps.
Damn bro you really just going to leave TRPs out of this?
I’ve read good things about them, but I’ve never seen one in person or heard of someone using them around me or at my shop. And ofc my recommendations are based of my experience so no trps here.
Ah that's interesting. They're pretty popular around here so I was just curious.
Thanks
Formula Cura 4 is an absolutely fantastic brake. I've run them on my bike for 3 years now and had zero issues. Only need to bleed them once a year. Great modulation, power is consistent and never had any fade even at long days in the bike park. You won't be disappointed.
I agree i have Formual Cura 4 on both my bikes and they are amazing the power, modulation bleeding them is quite easy and you can actually get a 2piece lever for some more adjustability.
Did a small edit mentioning disc choice if you wanna give a look.
How about the TRP DHR Evo's? Looking at those and the Hayes A4. So basically I got Hope V4's back in February, and my Fox X2 blew up so that was being warrantied and I left the Tech 4's in the box till March when I got my shock back. To my unpleasant surprise, they had leaked a decent amount of dot fluid out of the lever. Not gonna trust those anymore, I am in the process of returning them. Sucks because I really liked the way they felt (my friend got a set before I did). I am about 150lbs kitted up riding SoCal tech and jumps, currently on Code RSC's, which have lots of power but I am not enjoying the stiff lever feel and I also fade them on gnarly descents (like the double black trail Ladders at Vailocity bike park). I think the fade thing might just be them needing a bleed, I haven't bleed them since June 2022 when I got the bike, but I would like to praise them for how damn reliable they are, they bite pretty much always the same and are very consistent, feeling almost exactly like how I got them.
Some first batches of tech 4 had issues (and are covered by warranty off). I’m currently running tech 4 V4 and code RSC and while I still like the codes, I much prefer the V4’s. The light lever feel does make the difference for me. About trps I’ve never seen any nor heard of it in person.
Yeah I got them from Merlin, and they are being a bitch about it. I am in CA and they want me to pay $320 to ship em back to the UK. Nearly 2/3 of the price of the brake to ship them back as they are a faulty product????!!! Horrible experience, don't order from those scumbags.
Oof I feel bad for you, that’s not a good shop. I recommend you to directly contact Hope, they should take good care of your case. Let me know how it worked out, but I’m confident in their customer service.
I will thanks!
Thoughts on TRP?
Dude thank you for that answer. If you don't mind, may I ask you something really quick? I have SRAM Codes RSC with 180mm SRAM HS2 discs on an Epic EVO - Yes they may be an overkill, but there are really long descents where I live and my old brakes(SRAM G2) tended to fade so I decided to go with Codes RSC. My Codes RSC are behaving more like Shimano (on/off) than SRAM (modular). They are not being progressive at all. I see no speed reduction until the levers reach the bite point. I tried all the different settings for the Reach and Contact Point Adjust dials. I bled them a couple of times. Could you please provide me any advice on this?
Hey, would be a pleasure to help you ! The codes are more powerful than G2s so ofc you’ll feel a much stronger initial bite. Have you tried playing with the contact point adjustment ? Also, maybe you should try different pads, it can make a massive difference and help you reach the feeling you are after. Organic, semi metallic, sintered, ceramic, all have different properties and will provide a different feeling, especially on the first bite. Oh and have you tried with your stock rotors (should be sram centerline) ? Hs2 provides a much firmer feel compared to a thinner rotor. Hope it helped, ping me back after you’ve tried that.
Yes, I have played with the Contact Point Adjustment. It totally makes a difference but it didn't help me to find the progressiveness I'm after. I would definitely need to try different pads. Which ones would you recommend for progressive speed reduction on long decents? Yes, my stock rotors were SRAM Centerlines (You are the boss ) - Sadly, I sold them with my old brakes. I should probably get a new pair to try your recommendation
Tbh I don’t really like centerlines, but I just suggested it in case you kept them. I also run codes RSC on one of my bikes, I previously had it paired with centerlines and now HS2 and I much prefer them. I still find them easy to modulate but with a firmer feel. I run them with sintered pads. In case you really wanna grab a pair of centerlines, you should be able to find them for cheap as second hand since many bikes come equipped with.
Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it. Yes, I also prefer the HS2 over the Centerlines, they give me more confidence and no heating issues. My Codes are using metallic pads right now so I would definitely try with other ones.
Thank you for the list of options! Right now I just got a 2nd hand bike, with Avid DB3 and not really liking the feeling of it. I was thinking of going to Shigura, but I have not tried most of the brakes in your lists, other than shim & sram. Most of the bikes I've owned/tried previously were ranges of Shimanos. Out of all the options which ones feel the closest/similar to the on/off feel? I wanted to try something new, but with as close feeling that is not Shimano. I don't need very strong brakes since, I don't do downhill, mostly Enduro.
I guess magura’s mt7 could be your thing. The initial bite is very strong if well bled. Note that the feeling can be affected by your lever, so you should take a look at some reviews of différents magura’s levers. Also pad material makes a difference.
Hayes Dominion. As easy as that. I have ridden Sram Code RSC, Sram Code Ultimate, Magura MT7, Saint, TRP DH-R, XTR. None of these are as good as the Hayes, and many are more expensive. Hope or Lewis might be a good call as well as i havent tried them, but heard they are good. And of course if you have infinite money the two best brakes on the market should be Intend and Trickstuff, but im not that rich.
I found Hayes Dominion A4 for the same price as shimano saint or code rsc are they better?
They are way better. WAY better. I never came across a set of codes that felt so beautifully smooth in the lever action, or as powerful as the dominions. I will pretty much only run hayes from now on.
All the Dominions I have ridden felt really good, but lacked power compared to my Maguras.
I would go with the Hayes as well running a set on every bike I own , I don't think I'll ever switch to a different brand
Yes, Hayes
Yes, 100% imo, the lever feel is extremely light requireing almost no effort to press the breaks, which introduces way less fatigue over a day riding tham what SRAM does. At the same time the modulation is at least as good as the SRAM Codes and the peak power is on par with Saints. They also use Dot fluid which makes it significamtly easier to bleed. Because when you dont need to replace the fluid you can in 90% of cases do a 1-side bleed from the lever, removing air in the system by creating a vacuum in the syringe. Lastly they have these small ajuster screws which makes it easier to perfectly allign the caliper on the rotor.
ok, maybe I'll buy them, I'm still considering these formulas because they are a bit cheaper
I also ride dominion a4. They are bar none the best brakes I have ever ridden. On the opposite, saints are the worse brake I ever used. If you want Shimano, might as well go for XT (with 4 Pistons). I bought 4 pairs of dominion a4 at this point from https://www.bike-discount.de/en/ . Shipping is high to US, but if you need other things, their prices are good enough that it makes up for it. Ding forget to get rotors!
I actually felt the same way about the Saints ... Maybe my expectations were too high, but I hated them compared to the 4 piston XTs, used different pads, rotors bye the Saints just never felt good no matter what I tried, plus they were louder than anything else I've ridden which were kinda annoying. Dominion is the one brand I've yet to try but want to. What kind/size rotors you using with your A4s?
203mm front and rear. I like having the same part as much as possible. Simplify lots of things. I run same pedals, handlebar, brake setup, etc. on all my bikes.
Just got em, 203 front and rear. Bike shop installing em tomorrow, can't wait!
The only thing I don’t like about the dominions I put on my wife’s bike over the XT and hopes I have on my bikes is the bleeding. The dominions don’t have bleed nipples, only set screws (like sram), so you can’t moto bleed and you’ll always get a tiny amount of air into the caliper when you disconnect the syringe. Oh that reminds me there’s a 2nd thing I don’t like about the dominions, you have to remove the caliper (or the wheel I guess) to remove the pads, they don’t come out the top so you can’t do quick pad swaps and you can’t use a jig to center the caliper, but that does mean the pads have less play in the caliper than any other brakes I’ve run into. Performance on the bike really does negate those small annoyances. They somehow managed to make the brake have all the good feels without any of the tradeoffs it has a light lever action without being mushy, makes tons of power with short action without feeling wooden.
You remove the wheel to swap the pads. It takes an extra 30 seconds. IMO the fact that the pads cannot fall out is a nice safety backup. I really like the performance on my Hayes brakes. They're sufficiently better that when I get on a bike with SRAM brakes I think something is broken for the first few stops. I will say that they're a PITA to bleed and they are prone to dragging pads, in part because they seem to leave a smaller pad-rotor gap than other brakes and in part because the pistons get sticky and don't evenly retract.
Adding on to the rest of the comments. Hayes are amazing brakes. They fixed my hand fatigue issues and overall are very strong
I ran dominions and when it came time to service them, I couldn't even get the bike shop to get them to stop leaking at the master cylinder. They are in my parts graveyard now.
Lewis are Ali express knock off trickstuff. Don’t support them.
Sure? In which case i didnt know, i havnt seen any reviews, just seen their instagram and their stuff looks cool. But ill trust you, thanks for info🙏
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/review-lewis-lht-ultimate-brakes.html Pinkbike has alot of positives to say.
Just cuz they’re made in China doesn’t mean they’re knockoff lmao
That’s true. But they are. Spend like 5 seconds googling them past their website and it’s pretty clear that I’m not the only one saying this lol.
Haven't tried Hayes, but I love the Hope Tech v4! I'm in the opposite camp.
Hayes Dominion 💯
I've heard good things about Shigura. Shimano levers combined with Magura calipers. I'm currently building up a combo of XT 8100 levers and MT7 calipers. I'm gonna run Magura rotors as well.
Saints, have not had arm pump with Shimano like I have had with Hayes and SRAM. Have not tried Formula. But, if you are going to travel keep it simple or stock up on parts. Everyone has Shim/Sram
Saints!
Loved my old set of Formula CURA 4. Very reliable, very strong, parts available to rebuild stuff instead of just buying all new (shimano masters for example). 205lb rider on a dh bike at the time.
I’ve been through a few different sets of brakes over years and always come back to hope for the performance and ease of servicing. On my current bike I’m running E4’s but on my DH bike I used to run V4’s. The only brake that has ever come close to hope for my were the TRP gwin spec. They looked great and felt amazing but I didn’t own the bike long enough to have to service them in any way
None of those. All you need are Hayes Dominion a4's
Heavy rider here. I hate my sram and went for shimano xt, will later upgrade to galfer pads and rotors. Cant tell about the others you mentioned
* Mavins * Code RSC * and (surprisingly) DB8 the latter have the simplest levers but actually the same pads like codes and are quite strong on a budget. I like TRP and Trickstuff, too, but they have not been on your list
Would not recommend stock db8 on an ebike, not enough stopping power when it gets steep. Actually going to replace with XT brakes today.
Well, the DB8s on my eMTB work just fine - and I am a heavy rider. But then I also got big disks
Check out TRP. They’re from Taiwan 🇹🇼
Can vouch for saints. They look nice too
Used to have the Curas on my old bike, by far the best brakes Ive ridden. Awesome modulation, super consistent even on long descents, and impressive amounts of power for a two piston brake. They make a four pot version too if youre heavier and/or ride very hard. Theyre very very easy to install and bleed, too. They feel similar to SRAM brakes in that the bite point isnt quite as rock hard as on Shimanos. Its personal, but I find that kind of lever feel much easier to modulate. My only mild complaint is that the leaver adjustment needs a little allen key and is akward to reach, but if thats fine for you I really cant recommend them enough.
I’m thinking about buying this 2 piston version because I heard that they are super powerful. Do you have a reference to other 4 piston brakes? Can you compare the braking power?
I have Srame Code Rs now which are four pot, they feel overall pretty similar, perhaps a little bitier than the Formulas. I never, ever ran out of stopping power on the Curas. They were meant to compete with four pot trail/ enduro brakes and they do. If you value silky smooth supple modulation over having the absolute most powerful brakes, youll love the 2 pot Cura.
Super thank you, now i have sram guide rs 4 pot but they're super old and they they stop working halfway down the descent . The 2 pot curas are neerly half pice comparing to saints or codes so its tempting solution
THe 4 pot curas are also really nice.
Shimano Saint imo
What about Hayes and Trp?
I live in Poland and these brakes are hard to find
Hayes Manitou have a bit of a fucked supply chain in Europe. There’s a rumour there’s a new distribution deal from September that should see things improve.
i found them avaliable in 2 biggest polish bike shops so i think they have distribution here.
Yeah Hayes have their shit sorted now apparently and it’s better in Europe than in the UK
Still well behind where it used to be, back in the day they were both juggernauts.
Code rsc with trickstuff pads and rotors are an absolute beast but id rather recommend a brake with mineral oil. Shimano xt with sinter metallic pads and saint or xtr discs or galfer or trickstuff combo give you the the pest performance for your money. Havent tested the formula cura yet but reviews seem pretty good. for reference i tested magura shimano and sram on a Turbo Levo and Orbea Wild in bike parks with a system weight colse to 140kg and i liked the stock performance of the maguras the most but understand that not all like the plastic feel of the levers.
I installed the mt5 pro on my bike and replaced the levers with the oak root levers. Its not generally better in performance (maybe a bit in break consistence) but it feels way better and you can adjust the reach of the levers. But its some extra $$ you might dont want to spend for it.
I dont care about levers that much as i only ride with gloves and have fucked up soldier/mechanic hands. But i can understand that some expect a more premium feel at that price.
Higher tier brakes are all more or less great. Feel will be different between brands but there’s more to it than modulation or lack of it. I would not buy brakes that have side-specific cylinder or lever. That is simply user-hostile and wasteful design. I ride both Codes and Formula Cura 4.
I’ve been with Shimano’s XT 8120, performance is alright, but as I find out on my own experience quite frequently they have a leaking lever seals, and they are don’t like to be stored “upright” against the wall, front brake comes spongy in just 10 days of time. Code RSC is good choice if you can get them on fare offer. The best for me is TRP’s DH-R, minimum maintenance, just fit and keep them clean. Great stopping performance and bite, nice lever feel. And they are looking awesome!
Saints are deadly and reliable, and also easy to bleed yourself.
Just recently fitted some Cura 4s to my Sentinel. Really impressed. More power than the Hope E4s that they replaced. Nice feel and lots of modulation. Also cheaper than a lot of the other top of the line brakes. Will probably get another set for my next bike.
SRAM code or G2 Either one of those works great If u like Shimano then XT or SLX , depending on your speed and type of trail u ride
Brakes are very personal, you'll need to try them on a long descent to figure out what you like most. I've owned MT7, MT5, Tech 4 e4 & v4, Code rsc, shimano xt, zee, saint, trp. They all have their pros and cons. For me it's probably Magura > TRP > Hope > shimano > sram. I get along well with Magura/TRP/Hope and can't really stand shimano or sram. None are perfect. The closest I've found is TRP with aftermarket levers, but that was $$$.
What about Hayes Dominion?
I completely forgot, I have them on my DH bike. I don't ride them often enough to have a strong opinion, but they have a pretty neutral feel that is easy to adjust to (similar to magura or TRP compared to something like SRAM or XT). I never service them and they work every year. I don't even need to bleed them. They've been very reliable. The only complaint I have is that if you have issues you'll probably need to order stuff (ie: service kits, pads). I just keep a small stock of pads and I've been fine.
super thank you
Can you recommend any brake discs?
The rotor I've found to stay true longest w/ good bite is the 2.3mm TRP, but it's very heavy and most calipers can't accept a rotor this thick. I like the Magura MDR-P and Hope floating disks but both are a pain to true. The MDR-P took me a long time to warp and make super cool noises when they cool down, but they are a bit heavy. The Hopes are light but I've fought them on getting true out of the package and they tended to warp faster. Overall if you just want something low maintenance I'd probably shy away from multiple piece rotors. I've recently started trying the shimano xtr rotors. They are freaking light and seem to be holding true reasonably well however you are limited to center lock and they are too narrow for a lot of calipers.
The XTRs come in 6 bolt as well.
Either I misremembered or this is newer? I've not looked at rotors in \~9 months.
A lot of brake systems work best with that brands rotors now, be careful for that
Sram codes suck.
The R's do, the RSC's are awesome. Damn reliable brakes with the only issues I have had with them being the stiff ass lever feel. Tons of power and modulation, but they bite HARD with my 220/200 rotors and sintered pads. The hard lever feel is a dealbreaker for me though, so I am deciding between TRP DHR Evo and Hayes A4. I thought my Code's were far more powerful than the Deore M6120 I tried. Shimano brakes are overrated AF, and the wandering bite point and lack of modulation or spare parts available sucks.
I had sram RS and they lacked power even with the HSR disc brakes. On long descents they overheated. The modulation sucks. You have to push the levers way to hard. Since I run magura MT7 I never go back to sram.
Yeah I experience the overheating and hard to pull levers. I think I just need a bleed for the overheating/fade though. Can't get past the lever pull. My friend has MT5's and I think they are pretty good, very similar power and initial bite to my RSC's. I have heard pretty bad things about their reliability though, and they make their levers out of fucking plastic! Great power and modulation on Magura's though.
If my levers brake I go shigura I think. Lol. But so far so good. Only thing I hate is plastic bleed caps.
Ah yes the 0.5NM torque spec strikes again! Do the Shigura's have the issue with wandering bite point? Might have to do MT7 caliper with a Shimano lever if not.
Don't know
i used to use all of them and honestly theyre all really good. you cant go wrong.
I run Saints, got them for a killer deal nearly two years ago (LordGun @249 Total F/R) and they’ve been absolutely great for my 220lb chunky ass. Parts are readily available and aren’t overly inflated being the New New
Have a bike with Cura’s 4 and Sram codes RSC. Have love for both, but the Cura’s eke it out for me. Both feel progressive and have good control, but I feel like the Cura’s have more power to snap on when I need it. Could have just been personal experience, but I did have to play around with the codes a bit more to get them to work how I want. Cura’s were more or less on the money when I got them.
I just bought a set of Formula Cura-4s. They weigh less than Shimano XT while costing a bit more than SLX. I haven’t had a chance to mount them yet, but the price to performance seems promising. The pads look huge. The lever finish leaves a bit to be desired, but I think they have an upgrade available. The caliper doesn’t have a banjo bolt connection so it might be tricky to mount depending on your frame design. I can provide an update this week once I get them mounted on my bike.
Shimano 4 pot XT or saint with Trickstuff pads. The pads make a huge difference. No noise. Huge amounts of power and no fade
Been running hope Tech3/E4 and now Tech4/E4 for the last 4ish years. Currently running them on a heavy E-Bike and racing so they see lots of abuse. I have previously ran Shimano, SRAM, Magura and Formula brake systems. For the price point I don’t think you can beat Hope. They look great and fall within a good value for what you get. I also feel like they are easier to setup than some others and they hold their setup well. Hope seems to put a lot of R&D into making these things work.
Shimano, hope tech, and trp are generally what I go for they just have a different feel
I've just fitted SRAM maven limited edition red spat on my conyon strive on CFR ltd , they are super powerful, like over the bars of press to hard
Hayes Dominions are the only brakes that should be on your list.
I prefer Shimano because they use less hazardous oil/fluid. Also because I had a really bad experience with SRAM eagle transmission durability. My impression is that SRAM marketing tries to pitch minors advantages over Shimano but at high price in terms of durability/ease of adjustment/maintenance costs.
Personally, I’d get a set of Hope Tech 4 V4 and order yourself a couple spare lever blades when you place the order. Pretty cheap, easy to replace. Brake pads are also only $20-25 per set. Super powerful- I love them.
Heard a lot of good things about the Curas and the Dominions. Both have good power and sufficient modulation. Sram brakes tend to give riders a lot of fatigue in the hand due to their stiffer springs in the levers. Shimano brakes are very powerful but tend to sweat brake fluid which makes them noisy and a bit of a hand full in the maintenance department. Check out the link below to see a fair comparison between the most popular 4-piston brakes. (It is a bit old, but gives you a good idea of the differences between brands) [https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/](https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/)
Also had Formulas back in 2008. I never liked them but maybe they improved since
What kinda riding do you plan on doing and what have you used in the past and liked/disliked? Brakes is such a polarizing topic cause a lot of people despise SRAM. I understand why, but there's also a ton of people, myself included, who love them cause of their modulation. If you want an instant bite with strong stopping power, especially at the bike park and riding DH, the Saints are a popular choice. The Hope brakes kinda fall somewhere in the middle, closer to Shimano than SRAM, but it's gotta a lot of stopping power and IMO the best lever feel I've tried. I also really like TRP DHR Evo brakes, which have more stopping power but less modulation than the RSCs ... My personal favorite are the RSCs with HS2 rotors, I just really like that modulation and maybe it's cause I'm a lighter rider, but I've never had any issues with stopping power. Never tried Cura so can't help you on those.
I own formula. They are really good. I would compare formula Cura to SRAM Guide RS only that formula has a lot lot more bite at the end. Both are the best in modulation, I think a lot of people have beer with guide, but I personally am a big fan. So all in all, Cura 4 - same great modulation but with extra bite.
I have a set of Formula Cura 4s, mine need a bleed but the bite point is still rock solid, loads of power & a light lever pull. I love them, but it can be a little difficult/ expensive to get spare parts. Would defo recommend tho
Take a look az the hc3 magura lever to be sure you dont like it. With an mt7 its on par with those you said
Shimano or hope
Hayes dominion there strong as hell and not supper expensive
Just not the sram brakes, their "modulation" feels more like brake failure when you go from Shimano or Magura. I'm not hating sram since I've got many of them over time and they do make fantastic products, but I haven't come across a single sram brake I was impressed by, nor mine nor when switching bikes with others. Personally, wouldn't do Shimano Saint, they are getting old now. The XT 4pot BR-M8120 brakes are comparable in power, they have the new mounting standard, the dreaded piston leak is fixed. Also I've never experience braking point drift with new design levers, be it XT or SLX. How about Shigura? Shimano XTR/XT/SLX Levers + Magura calliper? I've owned bikes with: Shimano Saint, XT, SLX. SRAM Code R, Code RSC, old elixir. Magura MT7 Pro, MT5. Formula Cura 2. Hayes Stroker Ride. I would love to try Hope's one day, but it's just very rare you see them on trail. :(
I like the SRAM Code R 4 piston on 200mm rotors (220 up front if you want )
Shimano over sram for me. Never rode a bike with the others.
I love my TRP DHRs. I know everyone says Hayes is better, but I really don't wanna deal with DOT fluid ever again.
What about the new sram mavens? I love me some mineral oil!
Every review of the Maven slams them for being way to fatigueing to press the lever. Seems the vast majority of riders will not endure a day or even a run in a bikepark without taking breaks to rest hands.
IDK who these people reviewing them are, but I have the Mavens and cannot disagree more. It takes very little effort to pull the lever - significantly less effort than the TRPs I used to have. They also don’t require much pull.
I haven't heard of them yet. The ones I wrote about are on sale. Maven ultimate cost same ass hopes v4 are they worth?
Apparently the mavens have some flaws, I think pinkbike has a good article about is.
ok thank you
Can you recommend any brake discs?
I would go for galfer discs, or the disc that is reccomended for the brake by the manufacturer. Make sure to get right thickness ;)
The hopes. They are a wee bit boutique but the attention to detail and engineering quality is unrivaled in my opinion. TheY are a small(ish) company in the UK and I think are also unrivaled in terms of serviceability. All the spare parts remain available basically forever and they make all small parts very easy to get a hold of. All of this especially rings true if you live in the UK. They are really powerful as well with a lovely lever feel. Cannot recommend them enough, they are the best upgrade I ever made! I run the tech 4 e4s.
Hopes are awesome. If I were to spend money on a nice set of brakes it would probably be them, just for the reliability, serviceability etc.
Me personally sram or shimano
I did throw sainta down to have magura mt7, I wouldn’t trade them for nothing on that list.
Buy the Clark's M4 and save some money while having still great braking power.
My gold formula cura 4s on a 50lb enduro emtb - bees knees! Much better than my shimanos - tiers above. Modulation and brake point is on point.
Hayes dominion A4. Best breaks out there
What about the newer Shimano XT 8120's 4-piston? I just got a new set of Saints and they're great. One downside is I don't like the spec B mounting options. I don't see a huge difference yet between the Saints and the BR-M8020's I had on my old bike, most of the parts seem pretty interchangeable. Except for the spec B, sadly.
I replaced my Codes with Hopes and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Brake feel is better, power is WAY better, and they don’t fade as much.
Radic Kaha
SLX M7120 with metal pads and proper ice tech rotors
Hope dominion came on my emtb and those stop that 50lb beast down hill no issues.
Trp dh-r
Hays Dominion a force or a2s
I would choose the Shimanos. Why? Super reliable, easier to get parts, very nice feeling and powe. Super proven. Second option, Hope, third Formula, and I would discard the Srams, hate those. Also consider the Shimano Zee.
All top 4-piston brakes have more than enough power^\* so it really comes down to preference. I've ridden on Sram Code RSC, Magura MT5 and 7, Shimano Saint and am currently on TRP DHR Evo and my favorites are definitely the TRPs. Close to the "on/off" feeling of Shimano but without any of the hassle of inconsistent brake point, plus I can use my leftover Saint pads. Although I keep hearing incredible praise about the Hayes Dominion A4, and almost every local shop owner/ mechanic is riding with them. --- ^(\*)all top 4-piston brakes can (and will) lock the wheels, even if you're going all out on a DH run, so there's no point in getting the strongest ones as the limiting factor is mechanical grip from the tires, not the power of the brakes.
Shimano, Hope or TRP would be my recommendation. Hayes are pretty great too. SRAM suck, avoid SRAM brakes as much as you can.
There is no reason to buy SRAM brakes after market. Shimano are fine, very powerful with an on/off feel, but are prone to problems and have fragile lever blades. I'd go for something more interesting. Hope and TRP are great. I've not tried the new Hayes or Formula but they're well-reviewed.
Shimano. Always Shimano.
Saint is your way to go as it seems. however, do note that the levers react quite sensitive to your inputs when compared to SRAM and Magura (which both have more modulation) thus leaving very little space between 'No braking' and 'Full force stopping power', some people really like that, some dont'. I personally use Magura MT5 and swapped the original levers for 1 finger levers which for me is more comfortable to use (i don't like their stock levers either), because i like the modulation and bite of Magura more then Shimano's much more instant stop. And for the Hope Tech 4 E4 i'd rather go for the Tech V4 variant in that case as far as i heard, many tend to be happy with the ansane stopping power and customizability of these brakes in combination with their floating discs which have plenty of ventilation and cool down faster. However, the only consideration to that is that Hope in general is quite expensive. And for SRAM, don't even waste your time. They may feel okay at first but it doesn't take long for their brakes to lose way too much stopping power, essentially becoming crap. SRAM is just not good at making brakes. So personally i'd say from here you can figure the rest out for yourself and test thr brakes on bikes from friends around you to get more knowledge of what you like.
You are missing the best brakes in the industry. TRP. Literally any brake from TRP. Best in the bizz.
I used to think TRPs were the best, and then mine started failing after 1.5 years. And when I started asking service techs and friends about it, I learned everyone else was having the same issue. So, TRPs are great…until they’re not.