Ugh. Of course we could fuck Iran up back to the Stone Age in a governmental war (See US v Iraq) but good gravy nobody is in a hurry to get into another stand off against 1000 neighborhoods mosquito biting the shit out of us for the next 20 years.
What we've learned from Iraq and Afghanistan is that we can destroy any government and military, but after removing turds from power, we can't rebuild countries that don't want to be rebuilt.
If the result of this is that a conflict with Iran means destroying the Iranian government and military and not trying to rebuild it, then this is not a better outcome for Iran.
I actually think there’s a large portion of the Iranian population that would love to be rid of the current regime. I think we should support them and let them fight for their own country
Also you have to win the war properly. The US pushed the Taliban out of the cities but they still existed. Rebuilding in such an environment is impossible without a proper occupation and even then it's hard.
German and Japan would have evolved quite differently if the Wehrmacht/Imperial Army would have continued a prolonged guerilla war against the occupation forces.
It harms the soldiers mentally which leads to more conflict with the local population which leads to more resistance.
I have a friend who is Iranian he’s also Christian so when the revolution happened in the late 70’s he took his wife and kids and left. He’s says the same thing anytime the subject of Iran comes up
We should have just taken Afghanistan and Iraq as our own. Called them territories like Puerto Rico or American Samoa or said they will be the next 2 states under a 150 year plan of integration.
Implemented our way of life. Imported judges and lawyers. Installed an American government by Americans.
Slowly over that 150 years, allow the natives to participate and hold elected power.
We could have had a few 5* vacation resorts over there by now. China would have been pissed about our proximity but if we would have done that right after 9/11 when no one in the world was saying “no” to the USA, at that particular time, china would have said: uhh, whatever you want.
They would have negotiated “no nukes in Afghanistan” later like the whole Russia Cuba thing. But at that particular time, we could have done it.
You can't change culture. Rebuilding in western standards requires the change of culture.
That doesn't happen overnight, nor should it be a military operation.
Have our leaders learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan? Yeah, nah. We’ll do the same stupid shit again and again while the military industrial complex laughs all the way to the bank.
The assumption of the poster is that the U.S. will respond in a limited fashion. Were the U.S. to really just decided to fuck the place up and leave the Iranians could not respond with much. I think after the last twenty years and the disaster in nation building in SE Asia in the 1960s, the American populace is done with that for at least a generation
Yes, we can. But, Colonialism has fallen out of fashion and should remain so.
Our best shot is to obliterate old governments and immediately exit with strict trade agreements with neighboring governments to help them economically recover. It's much harder to radicalism the next male generation when they can make money and support their loved ones.
You are exactly correct and the only exception I’ll take with your statement is that it’s yet to be determined if “we”, as a nation, learned that lesson. You did. I did. It’s not at all certain that the leadership or the People did.
The leadership saw both Presidents reelected and escape war crimes charges, much less convictions. All while they enriched themselves and their benefactors. I don’t think we can be sure they see everything as a loss and that they will take away the same lessons we do.
Well yeah but a lot of Iraqis weren’t cheering on Saddam. But that’s a whole different thing from another country coming in to push you around. Trump is a very polarizing character but if he were in charge and Russia or China decided to put boots on the ground you can bet your ass everybody would go full MURICA on them.
Most Iraqis weren't too fond of Saddam either. But once you kill 150'000 of them and kill nearly a million with starvation and lack of sanitation before levelling the infrastrcture into the stone age, that opinion tends to turn very quickly.
That's how you get 88 million radicalized people with nothing to lose and a hateboner, instead of an unpopular government who makes some lukewarm noises about disliking you.
Actually, in this case, given how hugely messed up their situation is, I think the Iranians would welcome Americans in more than 80% of the country as we'd enter and leave as fast as is humanly possible.
Which translates into the USA outrunning a sprinting Bomb Tech once we rebuilt enough of Iran to get out.
Oh, and shave off a piece for the Kurds.
And also, Iran WAS one of the sources for all the Iraqi Insurgents and a source for the Taliban, too... So... Actually... Yeah.
That might actually be a better occupation.
We'd literally be sitting back and kick our feet up on the Arsenal of Terrorism.
I don’t think the average Iranian identifies with their government. I’m by no means advocating for war but look at what the government was doing to its own people over the last couple of years. The citizens are tired of the “religious extremist” running the government and forcing the women to wear hijabs.
That's the real rub, we could bomb them back to the stone age and leave a giant fucked up humanitarian crisis, or slog it out for another 20 years in an insurgency, but why? It literally benefits us zero to obliterate them.
But that doesn't mean we couldn't.
That’s a valid point, and I don’t believe the objective of an armed conflict against Iran would be to occupy it. I think it’s far more likely that it would look like comprehensive air and cruise missile strikes with a naval component followed by a no-fly zone kind of like operation southern watch.
They've been looking for a way to remove the current regime for a while now. They would much prefer a democratic, western aligned power there because 1.) They have alot of oil 2.) Iran is a bastion of terror activities in the world, not even regionally. If your extremist Islamic group needs guns, Iran is your guy. 3.) Its at the perfect spot to check both Russian and Chinese expansion.
They're gonna try to replace the government if it escalates to that point, and it's not going to be pretty.
How do you define "winning" the war? Wars are fought with end goals, missions if you will.
Which of the following would be your victory conditions for a war
* **Breaking all their shit?** Then yes, the US military could dispatch a pair of Carriers and a few SSGNs to do that. We might not even lose any of our boats. We could pretty much break their shit with impunity after systematically destroying their air defense assets and IRMB ballistic missile counterstrike capabilities
* **Regime Change?** The current leadership in Iran is a theocratic dictatorship with a wide a minority of popular support, and a cowed majority. It's not getting changed without an invasion that puts boots on the ground and THAT will cause all the "undecideds" and a goodly number of people who otherwise would be sympathetic to us to become hated enemies overnight.
* **Dismantling Nuclear Program?** Iran is already convinced that the way you prevent being fucked with by great powers is to acquire nuclear weapons. if you attack them on any fundamentally threatening level and *don't* regime change them (and see above for why that's a problem), all you are doing is confirming that the quickest way to prevent another round of air-deployed diplomacy is to have some nukes that can reach Israel, Eastern Europe, India, or Australia. Look at North Korea, China, or Pakistan. Three very different countries that all achieved recognition as regional powers and because of their nukes will NEVER be invaded unless or until those nukes are resolved (used, destroyed, or dismantled).
* **Policy change?** This one's dicey. Iran absolutely already is a major player in soft-policy throughout the region. they ship money guns, ammo, food, and oil to places that need those things in exchange concessions, money, and influence. Blowing up Irans shit is just gonna make them mad, not intimidate them. You're gonna have to kill 'em. A lot of 'em, and do we as a nation *really* have the stomach to kill *enough of them* to achieve such goals? knowing that it would take war-crimes levels of violence against the nation to get them to change their course?
I think we (the us) could win any ***fight*** with Iran, but any long term attempt at winning a "war" would be futile. That whole region is a fucking pit of quicksand that has swallowed armies and empires for thousands of years (literally in the case of the area outside Isfahan) and the US doesn't need *another* fucking forever war in a fucking sandpit.
I didn't even LIST occupation or annexation as goals because they're ludicrous. We don't have a big enough military to occupy and hold Iran without a coalition like we had when we went into Iraq and Afghanistan, and even then we'd need more troops. We'd need to massively increase troop numbers and that's something that the US has no chance of doing in the political climate. We literally hav trouble recruiting now for current force-structure needs.
But it would be hell occupying them, on account of the geography and guerilla warfare (I completely forget the word for partisans, basically resistance). Their army won't be a problem, what comes after will.
Iraq is a river plane. Iran is a mountain fortress with 4 entrances, a higher tech and better trained army. We would lose more men in the first day of a ground invasion than the 2 decades in Iraq.
It was a lot easier when Iraq was a global pariah and we had the full cooperation of their next door neighbor, Saudi Arabia, to pack in 500,000 troops, tanks, artillery, etc for months leading up to the hammer blow.
Against Iran today, we have no such allies and Iran has many more friends. Rather than stacking a half million troops on Iran's borders we would be reliant on an amphibious invasion to put equipment on the ground. An invasion fleet that is impossible to hide in 2024. This time around, Iran may be able to count on it's friends, who hold the number 2 and number 3 most powerful navies to screw around with us. The whole time the beachhead is getting swarmed by cheap drones that cost Iran nothing to build but cost us $4.8M each to shoot down.
It sounds like a fucking disaster.
We would go from Kuwait across Iraq to Iran it’s the south of Iraq. Just remind Iraq we can make a 90 deg turn if we need to. Kuwait is a big American ally. We have tons of crap still there.
American troops can invade through Iraq from Kuwait and Iraq would have no ability to prevent the movement of troops through a small southern corridor diplomatically or militarily. The airforce can be staged in Saudi Arabia and nearby countries who would gladly allow the US to destroy their main regional enemy. "Cheap drones" are useless when you deploy actual jammers and basic anti-drone equipment, but even removing that the US has a endless supply of the missiles needed. China can't save Iran even if they desperately wanted to and Russia is already at war and losing to cold war shit.
Until you realize the 75th RR has been absolutely fucking salivating at the thought of finally being able to airfield seize again. All the pent up rage from privates getting smoked endlessly in garrison being taken out on opposing forces in an airfield seizure would be a true sight to behold.
I feel this is a big pull by Russia to get the US involved with Iran to deplete aide to Ukraine. I’ve never been one to scream world war three is coming, but this is certainly shaping up to be what could develop into a full blown world conflict.
While continuing to maintain our global presence everywhere else? We got nothing else going on right now, and the stuff we're giving to Ukraine isn't even stuff we're using. It's warehouse gear.
It's a little different when China's on the precipice of attacking Taiwan as that happens good percentage of the majority of chip manufacturing goes down the hole.
That’s not enough to do anything with. It’s just enough to tell people “we have modern ships! We are serious!” Russia does the same schtick with their SU-57 “””stealth”””” fighter plane. They have like 6.
Jokes on them. They fuck around, we’ll let The Kid out of his hangar and conscript the Chick-Fil-A drive thru workers to fast track an intercontinental ass whooping all the way to Tehran.
We are not at war with the Houthis. We have one carrier group conducting raids on an embedded and decentralized terrorist network that is being constantly upheld and resupplied by Iran.
Actual war with Iran would be a very different ball game
Operation Praying Mantis. But seriously, the people of Iran need to take their country back from religion zealots and establish a relationship with Israel.
Define win. Can we destroy their army and kill a bunch of people, definitely. Did that work so well in Afghanistan which was no where near as coherent or powerful? No.
We need to stop fucking around. If we stop fucking around, they’ll stop fucking around.
And not to be misconstrued because the above could sound very Obama-esque. I mean, stop funding them and let them know they’ll all die if they don’t stop being assholes.
We had them in a good spot a couple years ago. It’s all been lost. We fucked around, now we’re finding out. This will lead to death. Whose death is yet to be seen. November will be illuminating.
Iran has spent the last fifty years posturing. Every now and then, they forget who they're flexing at, and things get proportional. Idk what you think iran can do.
We’d not put a fighting force one the ground. We saving that for Europe. What they will get is a copious amount of air strikes and a blockade of the Persian Gulf.
Hahaha we have not one but two boats that are designed to body other countries militaries let alone does no one remember when we bodied Iraq and Afghanistan
Gaza gets glassed and Iran intentionally leaks that it plans to send propeller-driven drones to US/Israeli intelligence to save face.
"Oho! Your western hegemony is at an end!"
the us can't win a war with Iran if we are going over to "win hearts and minds". the us CAN win a war with Iran if we stomp a mud hole in their ass and walk it dry.
You can’t have one without the other. Every military operation needs to consider the king term affects. If we don’t, the military operations don’t end until the big army breaks.
This would be our 4th war (not including military aid) in 23 years. Our national debt will continue to balloon and unrest will eventually follow
Oh no the US can’t win a war against Iran because after conquering their military, overthrowing their government, and occupying them for twenty years we’ll eventually get tired of their whining and leave.
This is a really bad take, the USA would destroy the Iranian military in weeks.
There would be an insurgency, but the Iranian people would I think be quite willing to have their own free government and would fight for it,
Dividing humans, make them hate echother, and justify Genocide and Slavery, use Lethal Autonomous Weapons to Annhilate all Organic life that Resist.
Thats the End, and we are all the means.
Destroying Irans capacity to make war? Piece of cake, probably would take a month or less.
Full scale invasion to pacify the countryside? Absolutely nightmare and 100% unachievable. Iran is a massive country, and most of the population isn’t exactly asking to be “liberated”
I’m a firm believer (not American), that the USA is the only country that can literally wipe any and all countries (including itself) off the face of this earth if they really wanted to. Casualties are inevitable especially if it comes to a full out war. But when the US has twice the budget of next 9 countries combined, you know you’re unstoppable. Nothing beats the US war machine. Don’t forget what they did to the Japanese Empire, which at its height was one of the most notorious and feared empires and military powers in the world. And yet…
As an American, if we wanted to, we could wreck any country on earth, if absolute destruction was the goal and we didn’t care if civilians died. But, I don’t think the American public could stomach what ‘winning’ a war would really entail. However, we tend to fumble the ball in winning hearts and minds; drawn out occupations and nation building!
You bring up a good point. The modern American public knows nothing about what a true war torn country is like. It’s an interesting thought experiment to imagine what a war torn America would look like, like let say Ukraine is right now. And I don’t think the average Joe really wants to or can imagine such a scenario. Others than vets, of course. They’re the only Americans who truly know what it’s like.
I like the antisemitic dogwhistle at the end there
Reminds me of how Al Jazeera Arabic and the alt right keeps saying how Jews control America and the entire world, that’s why gay rights, feminism, and racial diversity are being “pushed”
Oddly enough, the same thing happened in hitlers Germany. The books they burned were primarily books that promoted understanding and accepting gay people and transgenderism, amongst other more liberal topics... and mostly by Jewish authors.
Yall really think power projection into Iran a highly mountainous country with bunkers in those mountains backed up by one of the largest militaries in the Middle East would be easy or compatible to the Iraq war then I got some crypto you can buy from me lmaooo.
America couldn’t beat a bunch of goat farmers in Afghanistan. Not because they don’t have the military might. But because the government is so corrupt they’d rather spend billions in no bid contracts and cronies than to actually fight a war.
America could win a war with Iran in a couple days. But that’s not as profitable as a decades long conflict where everyone suffers.
[What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little shit? Ill have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and Ive been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and Im the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. Youre fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and thats just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little clever comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldnt, you didnt, and now youre paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it.](http://i.imgur.com/FIpk52f.gifv)
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To be fair, they're right about every thing after "The only thing..."
And I'm nowhere near as confident in America's military as I was in the pre-PronounWarrior days.
We can win against Iran. It'll be a lot harder than the last two fronts and cost a lot of lives on both sides, but we can definitely win. Now, is it worth it? Nope.
The danger for US here is being dragged into a war on 3 fronts - being engaged in full-scale conflict in the middle-east, it will have reduced capacity to deal with a potential Russian invasion of baltics and a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, which both are weak points among US allies. USA would have to deploy ground troops to defeat Iran-backed proxies such as the Houthis, and I probably don’t need to tell how unpopular and dividing it will be back home.
The US has become self destructive under BIDEN. Netanyahu is benefiting from overwhelming corruption and incompetence by the US administration. He isn’t the only one taking the piss out of the American tax payer either.
That sub is weird AF. It is like a bunch of propaganda bots arrived and started circlejerking each other, but they all thought their audience were humans and not other propaganda bots. Over time, this feedback loop just made them more and more insane. Now, it’s like a Black Mirror episode in there.
I think it's true. So does Scott Ritter, Col Doug MacGregor, and many others.
This isn't Desert Storm, war has changed considerably. Technology has advanced for even countries we consider beneath us. This isn't 1991 anymore. I believe we should come to grips with that.
US intel says we cannot win a war with Iran, simulations have been ran, Iran is a relatively technologically advanced military in the middle East with a very mountainous terrain. As soon as the war begins global trade is getting f’d.
Anybody saying otherwise is covering their eyes and ears
Ugh. Of course we could fuck Iran up back to the Stone Age in a governmental war (See US v Iraq) but good gravy nobody is in a hurry to get into another stand off against 1000 neighborhoods mosquito biting the shit out of us for the next 20 years.
What we've learned from Iraq and Afghanistan is that we can destroy any government and military, but after removing turds from power, we can't rebuild countries that don't want to be rebuilt. If the result of this is that a conflict with Iran means destroying the Iranian government and military and not trying to rebuild it, then this is not a better outcome for Iran.
I actually think there’s a large portion of the Iranian population that would love to be rid of the current regime. I think we should support them and let them fight for their own country
Support them in spirit only. All for it
*support them with (B2) spirits only.
That didn’t work out well last time, or the time before that.
Fact: 90% of foreign interventions cut support right before the new regime becomes a total ally
That's why Japan, Korea, and Germany are still good allies. We stuck around and made sure it got done right. Since then, we've done things horribly.
Note that the thing all those have in common is that we never left. Like you say. We stuck around. But we stuck around forever.
They also didn’t fight an active decades long insurgency against the occupying forces…
Also you have to win the war properly. The US pushed the Taliban out of the cities but they still existed. Rebuilding in such an environment is impossible without a proper occupation and even then it's hard. German and Japan would have evolved quite differently if the Wehrmacht/Imperial Army would have continued a prolonged guerilla war against the occupation forces. It harms the soldiers mentally which leads to more conflict with the local population which leads to more resistance.
Anti american blabla bullshit is all it is
I'd like to send the ayatollah a 2000lb love letter.
Iran of the 60s looked so different
From my understanding, Iran in major Iranian cities looked different. Outside of that it was still running around stuck in AD600
I have a friend who is Iranian he’s also Christian so when the revolution happened in the late 70’s he took his wife and kids and left. He’s says the same thing anytime the subject of Iran comes up
Yes exactly. We can't just do it for them.
We should have just taken Afghanistan and Iraq as our own. Called them territories like Puerto Rico or American Samoa or said they will be the next 2 states under a 150 year plan of integration. Implemented our way of life. Imported judges and lawyers. Installed an American government by Americans. Slowly over that 150 years, allow the natives to participate and hold elected power. We could have had a few 5* vacation resorts over there by now. China would have been pissed about our proximity but if we would have done that right after 9/11 when no one in the world was saying “no” to the USA, at that particular time, china would have said: uhh, whatever you want. They would have negotiated “no nukes in Afghanistan” later like the whole Russia Cuba thing. But at that particular time, we could have done it.
That, “don’t want to be rebuilt,” shit is critical. The Middle East needs therapy.
Yea but it would be a great outcome for everyone else, quite frankly fuck them.
You can't change culture. Rebuilding in western standards requires the change of culture. That doesn't happen overnight, nor should it be a military operation.
Have our leaders learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan? Yeah, nah. We’ll do the same stupid shit again and again while the military industrial complex laughs all the way to the bank.
The assumption of the poster is that the U.S. will respond in a limited fashion. Were the U.S. to really just decided to fuck the place up and leave the Iranians could not respond with much. I think after the last twenty years and the disaster in nation building in SE Asia in the 1960s, the American populace is done with that for at least a generation
Yes, we can. But, Colonialism has fallen out of fashion and should remain so. Our best shot is to obliterate old governments and immediately exit with strict trade agreements with neighboring governments to help them economically recover. It's much harder to radicalism the next male generation when they can make money and support their loved ones.
You are exactly correct and the only exception I’ll take with your statement is that it’s yet to be determined if “we”, as a nation, learned that lesson. You did. I did. It’s not at all certain that the leadership or the People did. The leadership saw both Presidents reelected and escape war crimes charges, much less convictions. All while they enriched themselves and their benefactors. I don’t think we can be sure they see everything as a loss and that they will take away the same lessons we do.
*we cannot stick around.
*we can’t restructure societies because we lack the willingness to do what it would take to really transform them
[удалено]
The majority of Iranians dislike their current government.
Well yeah but a lot of Iraqis weren’t cheering on Saddam. But that’s a whole different thing from another country coming in to push you around. Trump is a very polarizing character but if he were in charge and Russia or China decided to put boots on the ground you can bet your ass everybody would go full MURICA on them.
Most Iraqis weren't too fond of Saddam either. But once you kill 150'000 of them and kill nearly a million with starvation and lack of sanitation before levelling the infrastrcture into the stone age, that opinion tends to turn very quickly.
Dude they never left the stone age
Ya know................. *you don't have to do that*. Nation building is not an essential part of armed conflict.
That's how you get 88 million radicalized people with nothing to lose and a hateboner, instead of an unpopular government who makes some lukewarm noises about disliking you.
Didn’t about half their missiles not even work right?
Actually, in this case, given how hugely messed up their situation is, I think the Iranians would welcome Americans in more than 80% of the country as we'd enter and leave as fast as is humanly possible. Which translates into the USA outrunning a sprinting Bomb Tech once we rebuilt enough of Iran to get out. Oh, and shave off a piece for the Kurds. And also, Iran WAS one of the sources for all the Iraqi Insurgents and a source for the Taliban, too... So... Actually... Yeah. That might actually be a better occupation. We'd literally be sitting back and kick our feet up on the Arsenal of Terrorism.
I don’t think the average Iranian identifies with their government. I’m by no means advocating for war but look at what the government was doing to its own people over the last couple of years. The citizens are tired of the “religious extremist” running the government and forcing the women to wear hijabs.
That's the real rub, we could bomb them back to the stone age and leave a giant fucked up humanitarian crisis, or slog it out for another 20 years in an insurgency, but why? It literally benefits us zero to obliterate them. But that doesn't mean we couldn't.
Amen brother
I guess he missed that part in history where the US destroyed half of Iran's navy in 8 hours?
A literal fucking workday. Lunch included.
Still got a nice little siesta in during lunch also
We took a long lunch too lol
Destroying military targets and occupying a religiously determined population are two very different things.
I’m taking a country with an 800bn dollar military budget over a 3rd world countries “military” 10/10 times
I'm telling you, if the US tries to occupy anything besides Basra and the straight of Hormuz, it would turn into Afghanistan 2.0.
In the words of great General Douglas MacArthur. Nuke the bastards
That’s a valid point, and I don’t believe the objective of an armed conflict against Iran would be to occupy it. I think it’s far more likely that it would look like comprehensive air and cruise missile strikes with a naval component followed by a no-fly zone kind of like operation southern watch.
They've been looking for a way to remove the current regime for a while now. They would much prefer a democratic, western aligned power there because 1.) They have alot of oil 2.) Iran is a bastion of terror activities in the world, not even regionally. If your extremist Islamic group needs guns, Iran is your guy. 3.) Its at the perfect spot to check both Russian and Chinese expansion. They're gonna try to replace the government if it escalates to that point, and it's not going to be pretty.
HEY! That was a proportional response to Iranian aggression.
The planned response was proportional. As usual, things didn’t go to plan, so the ass-kicking was much, much, more thorough.
Sparrow 3, you are clear to fire warning shots at the platform Sparrow 3: Oops
Patterson, fire a warning shot Sir, this is a M-32 grenade launcher Ah, potato potato just fire it Patterson
Jacques, fire of the warning shot. Oui, press the red button. Jacques that's a nuke Yes
It was just extra proportional.
[Absolutely](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5v6hlRyeHE)
Don’t forget the oil rigs
Weren’t even planning on it, kind of an accident really
It wasn’t an accident. Iran tried to avoid their ass spanking, ended up taking an ass beating instead.
How do you define "winning" the war? Wars are fought with end goals, missions if you will. Which of the following would be your victory conditions for a war * **Breaking all their shit?** Then yes, the US military could dispatch a pair of Carriers and a few SSGNs to do that. We might not even lose any of our boats. We could pretty much break their shit with impunity after systematically destroying their air defense assets and IRMB ballistic missile counterstrike capabilities * **Regime Change?** The current leadership in Iran is a theocratic dictatorship with a wide a minority of popular support, and a cowed majority. It's not getting changed without an invasion that puts boots on the ground and THAT will cause all the "undecideds" and a goodly number of people who otherwise would be sympathetic to us to become hated enemies overnight. * **Dismantling Nuclear Program?** Iran is already convinced that the way you prevent being fucked with by great powers is to acquire nuclear weapons. if you attack them on any fundamentally threatening level and *don't* regime change them (and see above for why that's a problem), all you are doing is confirming that the quickest way to prevent another round of air-deployed diplomacy is to have some nukes that can reach Israel, Eastern Europe, India, or Australia. Look at North Korea, China, or Pakistan. Three very different countries that all achieved recognition as regional powers and because of their nukes will NEVER be invaded unless or until those nukes are resolved (used, destroyed, or dismantled). * **Policy change?** This one's dicey. Iran absolutely already is a major player in soft-policy throughout the region. they ship money guns, ammo, food, and oil to places that need those things in exchange concessions, money, and influence. Blowing up Irans shit is just gonna make them mad, not intimidate them. You're gonna have to kill 'em. A lot of 'em, and do we as a nation *really* have the stomach to kill *enough of them* to achieve such goals? knowing that it would take war-crimes levels of violence against the nation to get them to change their course? I think we (the us) could win any ***fight*** with Iran, but any long term attempt at winning a "war" would be futile. That whole region is a fucking pit of quicksand that has swallowed armies and empires for thousands of years (literally in the case of the area outside Isfahan) and the US doesn't need *another* fucking forever war in a fucking sandpit.
I didn't even LIST occupation or annexation as goals because they're ludicrous. We don't have a big enough military to occupy and hold Iran without a coalition like we had when we went into Iraq and Afghanistan, and even then we'd need more troops. We'd need to massively increase troop numbers and that's something that the US has no chance of doing in the political climate. We literally hav trouble recruiting now for current force-structure needs.
Worse than a sand pit. It's a mountain fortress.
Battleships are notoriously poor at fighting in mountains
In a Conventional Style War (non political BS war like the last two), America would body Iran just like how we bodied Iraq in the Gulf War.
But it would be hell occupying them, on account of the geography and guerilla warfare (I completely forget the word for partisans, basically resistance). Their army won't be a problem, what comes after will.
Fuck it. No occupation. Just delete their navy, airforce and long-range strike capability from the air and leave them to cope and seethe.
Bomb every governmental building and then let the people pick up the pieces. If a hostile government is installed….repeat step one.
Iraq is a river plane. Iran is a mountain fortress with 4 entrances, a higher tech and better trained army. We would lose more men in the first day of a ground invasion than the 2 decades in Iraq.
It was a lot easier when Iraq was a global pariah and we had the full cooperation of their next door neighbor, Saudi Arabia, to pack in 500,000 troops, tanks, artillery, etc for months leading up to the hammer blow. Against Iran today, we have no such allies and Iran has many more friends. Rather than stacking a half million troops on Iran's borders we would be reliant on an amphibious invasion to put equipment on the ground. An invasion fleet that is impossible to hide in 2024. This time around, Iran may be able to count on it's friends, who hold the number 2 and number 3 most powerful navies to screw around with us. The whole time the beachhead is getting swarmed by cheap drones that cost Iran nothing to build but cost us $4.8M each to shoot down. It sounds like a fucking disaster.
We would go from Kuwait across Iraq to Iran it’s the south of Iraq. Just remind Iraq we can make a 90 deg turn if we need to. Kuwait is a big American ally. We have tons of crap still there.
American troops can invade through Iraq from Kuwait and Iraq would have no ability to prevent the movement of troops through a small southern corridor diplomatically or militarily. The airforce can be staged in Saudi Arabia and nearby countries who would gladly allow the US to destroy their main regional enemy. "Cheap drones" are useless when you deploy actual jammers and basic anti-drone equipment, but even removing that the US has a endless supply of the missiles needed. China can't save Iran even if they desperately wanted to and Russia is already at war and losing to cold war shit.
Until you realize the 75th RR has been absolutely fucking salivating at the thought of finally being able to airfield seize again. All the pent up rage from privates getting smoked endlessly in garrison being taken out on opposing forces in an airfield seizure would be a true sight to behold.
I feel this is a big pull by Russia to get the US involved with Iran to deplete aide to Ukraine. I’ve never been one to scream world war three is coming, but this is certainly shaping up to be what could develop into a full blown world conflict.
Russia gets its shahed drones from Iran. If israel bombs Iran Russia will lose all its drones to attack Ukraine. Win win for Israel’s and Ukraine tbh
They are being built under license in russia now. Have been.
Did they forget we fought for almost 20 years in two separate countries?
While continuing to maintain our global presence everywhere else? We got nothing else going on right now, and the stuff we're giving to Ukraine isn't even stuff we're using. It's warehouse gear.
It's a little different when China's on the precipice of attacking Taiwan as that happens good percentage of the majority of chip manufacturing goes down the hole.
The US itself is making major advancedments in chip tech and manufacturing
Nobody wants us to fight Iran more than Israel.
Define ‘win’. We can beat their army easy but I wouldn’t want to occupy their country with all those mountains.
There are no winners at war.
Explain ww2
Just a lie, WW2, Civil War (America), Revolutionary War (America), every war against Israel was a win for Israel
I disagree
If that was true then how could history be written by the victors? It's an empty ass statement my guy.
Agreed. Destroy completely, yes. Occupy, probably not.
Wait... wr can't absolutely body slam the nation who's navy we sunk half of in 8 hours because they tried to sink 1 fucking boat?
Don’t fuck with our boats
You don't touch our boats. That's where we draw the line
Japan: “we sink a few of their boats and they dropped the sun on us TWICE”
Tbf it was a pretty sorry navy before we did that
It had some modern shops for the time, as in like maybe 2-4
That’s not enough to do anything with. It’s just enough to tell people “we have modern ships! We are serious!” Russia does the same schtick with their SU-57 “””stealth”””” fighter plane. They have like 6.
Yep their F-14s will really help them. Oh and those F-4s too.
“You should go home now!” *says breathily in a very intercepting tone*
Would you intercept me? *SNIIIIIIIIIFFFFFFFFFFF* I'd intercept me.
I wanna see The Kid and Buff over Iran. One would obliterate their "air force" and the other would change their geography.
Jokes on them. They fuck around, we’ll let The Kid out of his hangar and conscript the Chick-Fil-A drive thru workers to fast track an intercontinental ass whooping all the way to Tehran.
Lmao
I mean let's also not look past the blatant antisemitism in that post
Give every feminist in Iran a javelin plz it would be funny.
Reddit gets a crazy hate boner for America
Only because we aren't willing to kill the enemy until they'd rather give up than die. Karah
Pure comedy. Israel has the iron dome. Who do you thing gifted that to them? Time to make some glass and fuck some ass.
Bro the Texas National Guard could fuck up Iran LOL
We could send over high school ROTC if we wanted a fair fight.
lol wut? Are things about to get proportional?
I dunno, seems like we haven't put the Houthi out of commission yet. Iran is that x100.
We are not at war with the Houthis. We have one carrier group conducting raids on an embedded and decentralized terrorist network that is being constantly upheld and resupplied by Iran. Actual war with Iran would be a very different ball game
Putin likes this post
America about to practice glass-making
if we're being optimistic iran would last about 39 minutes
Boy you are really optimistic giving them 39 minutes. Is that like 30 mins of the US forces stretching....
Do me a solid and read about the millennium challenge 2002.
USA. I’m begging you. Operation praying mantis 2 🙏
define “win”. can the us bomb them into the stone age? yes. a ground occupation? not gonna work for very long.
Operation Praying Mantis. But seriously, the people of Iran need to take their country back from religion zealots and establish a relationship with Israel.
Define win. Can we destroy their army and kill a bunch of people, definitely. Did that work so well in Afghanistan which was no where near as coherent or powerful? No.
Do me a solid and read about the[millennium challenge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002)
it's all a jewish conspiracy to these people huh?
Iran would find out why we don’t have free healthcare or college
I mean if the US really wanted to they could wipe out Iran in about the amount of time it takes to take a quick shit..
We could win a war against Iran by COB today. We don’t have the balls to, but we could.
We can win a war against ANYBODY..
We need to stop fucking around. If we stop fucking around, they’ll stop fucking around. And not to be misconstrued because the above could sound very Obama-esque. I mean, stop funding them and let them know they’ll all die if they don’t stop being assholes. We had them in a good spot a couple years ago. It’s all been lost. We fucked around, now we’re finding out. This will lead to death. Whose death is yet to be seen. November will be illuminating.
Iran has spent the last fifty years posturing. Every now and then, they forget who they're flexing at, and things get proportional. Idk what you think iran can do.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
No need to fight a war. Take out Kharg Island and Jask Port and all their currency dries up.
We’d not put a fighting force one the ground. We saving that for Europe. What they will get is a copious amount of air strikes and a blockade of the Persian Gulf.
Look up Operations Praying Mantis and Nimble Archer. That's just was the Navy before their morning coffee break. And, they were 1 day each.
Your read is that Iran is trying to provoke a war?
Hahaha we have not one but two boats that are designed to body other countries militaries let alone does no one remember when we bodied Iraq and Afghanistan
Do me a solid and read about the [millennium challenge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002)
I read it, thanks. Pathetic that they scripted it. Surprised also that the leader of the red team actually quit over the scripting of the games.
Do me a solid and read about the[millennium challenge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002)
If Russia was against it, it would never take place.
It would be costly but yes, America could win a war against Iran. Duh.
This is why we weren't supposed to keep a standing army!
Gaza gets glassed and Iran intentionally leaks that it plans to send propeller-driven drones to US/Israeli intelligence to save face. "Oho! Your western hegemony is at an end!"
The US doesn’t want a war with Iran. The US simply wants stable western-focused economic activity
the us can't win a war with Iran if we are going over to "win hearts and minds". the us CAN win a war with Iran if we stomp a mud hole in their ass and walk it dry.
You can’t have one without the other. Every military operation needs to consider the king term affects. If we don’t, the military operations don’t end until the big army breaks. This would be our 4th war (not including military aid) in 23 years. Our national debt will continue to balloon and unrest will eventually follow
I thought it was general knowledge that America has completely shat it from Israel?
HAHAHA BRUH
Oh no the US can’t win a war against Iran because after conquering their military, overthrowing their government, and occupying them for twenty years we’ll eventually get tired of their whining and leave.
Hey you guys America is secretly controlled by some group of people in a conspiracy theory, I wonder who it is this time. Oh.
A war with Iran means WW3. No one wins in that scenario.
This is a really bad take, the USA would destroy the Iranian military in weeks. There would be an insurgency, but the Iranian people would I think be quite willing to have their own free government and would fight for it,
Dividing humans, make them hate echother, and justify Genocide and Slavery, use Lethal Autonomous Weapons to Annhilate all Organic life that Resist. Thats the End, and we are all the means.
Dos vedonya, Boris.
Destroying Irans capacity to make war? Piece of cake, probably would take a month or less. Full scale invasion to pacify the countryside? Absolutely nightmare and 100% unachievable. Iran is a massive country, and most of the population isn’t exactly asking to be “liberated”
We could absolutely take them off the map, not even needing atomic weaponry However the consequences from everyone else though would hurt real bad
Israel can handle Iran singlehandedly.
I’m a firm believer (not American), that the USA is the only country that can literally wipe any and all countries (including itself) off the face of this earth if they really wanted to. Casualties are inevitable especially if it comes to a full out war. But when the US has twice the budget of next 9 countries combined, you know you’re unstoppable. Nothing beats the US war machine. Don’t forget what they did to the Japanese Empire, which at its height was one of the most notorious and feared empires and military powers in the world. And yet…
As an American, if we wanted to, we could wreck any country on earth, if absolute destruction was the goal and we didn’t care if civilians died. But, I don’t think the American public could stomach what ‘winning’ a war would really entail. However, we tend to fumble the ball in winning hearts and minds; drawn out occupations and nation building!
You bring up a good point. The modern American public knows nothing about what a true war torn country is like. It’s an interesting thought experiment to imagine what a war torn America would look like, like let say Ukraine is right now. And I don’t think the average Joe really wants to or can imagine such a scenario. Others than vets, of course. They’re the only Americans who truly know what it’s like.
I like the antisemitic dogwhistle at the end there Reminds me of how Al Jazeera Arabic and the alt right keeps saying how Jews control America and the entire world, that’s why gay rights, feminism, and racial diversity are being “pushed”
Oddly enough, the same thing happened in hitlers Germany. The books they burned were primarily books that promoted understanding and accepting gay people and transgenderism, amongst other more liberal topics... and mostly by Jewish authors.
Yall really think power projection into Iran a highly mountainous country with bunkers in those mountains backed up by one of the largest militaries in the Middle East would be easy or compatible to the Iraq war then I got some crypto you can buy from me lmaooo.
You’re laughing, I’m laughing even more at the fact that you would be this clueless as to the full extent of the US’s military might.
LMAOOO as if we couldn’t turn all of asia into a pane of glass in a 24 hour span
America couldn’t beat a bunch of goat farmers in Afghanistan. Not because they don’t have the military might. But because the government is so corrupt they’d rather spend billions in no bid contracts and cronies than to actually fight a war. America could win a war with Iran in a couple days. But that’s not as profitable as a decades long conflict where everyone suffers.
Never heard of Operation Praying Mantis I’m guessing 😂😂
[удалено]
[What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little shit? Ill have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and Ive been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and Im the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. Youre fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and thats just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little clever comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldnt, you didnt, and now youre paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it.](http://i.imgur.com/FIpk52f.gifv) Read the [rules.](http://www.reddit.com/r/MURICA/about/sidebar) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MURICA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm just sitting here in wonder at our missile defense. Putin must be shitting bricks at this point.
Everyone calling for war needs to sign up or sign up their kids first. Just stop.
UNDER Netanyahu?!?!?!? Who the fuck is this?
Can't define victory without defining objectives
I’m sorry, what is this persons reasoning for saying this? And how long have they been huffing paint?
Are there still protests in Iran?
To be fair, they're right about every thing after "The only thing..." And I'm nowhere near as confident in America's military as I was in the pre-PronounWarrior days.
Lol I love how they said it with their chest as Iran is basically saying “plz don’t hit us back, daddy?”
If Iran keeps sending 9 hour attacks like that no one has a thing to worry about. Fucking snail mail.
We can win against Iran. It'll be a lot harder than the last two fronts and cost a lot of lives on both sides, but we can definitely win. Now, is it worth it? Nope.
The danger for US here is being dragged into a war on 3 fronts - being engaged in full-scale conflict in the middle-east, it will have reduced capacity to deal with a potential Russian invasion of baltics and a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, which both are weak points among US allies. USA would have to deploy ground troops to defeat Iran-backed proxies such as the Houthis, and I probably don’t need to tell how unpopular and dividing it will be back home.
Why because we won the revolutionary war 250 years ago?
No, because the last time we went to war with Iran it really, and I mean it REALLY didn’t go well for the Iranians, look up Operation Praying Mantis
The US has become self destructive under BIDEN. Netanyahu is benefiting from overwhelming corruption and incompetence by the US administration. He isn’t the only one taking the piss out of the American tax payer either.
That sub is weird AF. It is like a bunch of propaganda bots arrived and started circlejerking each other, but they all thought their audience were humans and not other propaganda bots. Over time, this feedback loop just made them more and more insane. Now, it’s like a Black Mirror episode in there.
I think it's true. So does Scott Ritter, Col Doug MacGregor, and many others. This isn't Desert Storm, war has changed considerably. Technology has advanced for even countries we consider beneath us. This isn't 1991 anymore. I believe we should come to grips with that.
Operation Praying Mantis begs to differ.
US intel says we cannot win a war with Iran, simulations have been ran, Iran is a relatively technologically advanced military in the middle East with a very mountainous terrain. As soon as the war begins global trade is getting f’d. Anybody saying otherwise is covering their eyes and ears