I find it unlikely that she could be trafficked with such a distinctive physical feature as the partial heterochromia (or whatever the eye mark is) and not be spotted. Such a high profile kidnapping would be against the best interests of a trafficker, especially once the news began to cover the eye as a specifying feature and it’s possible she could have been killed over this issue
I would love a positive outcome here but I just don’t think it’s realistic
She would definitely be killed over her eye feature. In fact the parents were told to not talk about that in the media and were informed by the police that if they would, she would be killed if she had been abducted for trafficking. Next thing the McCann's talked about in the media was her distinctive eye feature 💀
That talk was before all the evidence of her having died in the apartment came to light and the Portuguese police learned that the McCann's had covered it up (badly).
I think the parents know what happened to her... Their guy friend was weird, he said inappropriate things about Maddie to her dad, iirc he was the one who went to check on the kids. He's a very weird guy. She could have died in the apartment, on his hands, not getting into details. The police dogs that sniff for blood DID alert there was something in the car, probably had been cleaned by then, or maybe just the smell of blood that was left there. Ugh
Well ; I was about to type exactly the same thing.That Madeline's distinctive eye would mean that ,if she was still alive;she would recognise herself in any photo or TV appeal.I'm afraid that leaves me with one conclusion,that she was murdered by Christian B.
Agreed. I also do not think her parents had anything to do with her death. I think she was taken and SA and unalived, sadly 🥺 unless she is living in a remote village somewhere where she has no access to internet and no one can find her. No matter which scenario is the truth, it’s a sad case and one that I think of often 😔
Umm, i dont know… im sure there are other kids who have distinctive features who are sold of as well. Anything is possible. Its not like those kids are allowed to roam freely. They are usually trapped somewhere
I was gonna say this. About her eye. With all the news about her, if she were alive she would hopefully question her double pupil (?) and wonder if she were indeed Madeleine.
I really don’t know. Sometimes I think it is weird what they found at the apartment, like the corpse smell, the blood, the shutter thing, the neighbour that heard Maddie crying for hours. On the other hand, how could the parents have killed Maddie without anyone noticing and just keep on having dinner with friends. Doesn’t make sense. Even if it was an accident it doesn’t make sense.
But what I don’t understand about the parents is leaving them alone in the apartment. I would be scared to death my 3 yo (I am mother to a 3 yo girl), would walk out and drown in the pool. I mean, my daughter also wakes up in the middle of night to go to the toilet. I think she would go look for us if we weren’t in the apartment. I cannot understand how 2 intelligent people like the McCans haven’t thought about that.
It is a weird case, very very weird.
>On the other hand, how could the parents have killed Maddie without anyone noticing and just keep on having dinner with friends.
The history of crime is chock full of people who murdered their nearest and dearest and carried on like nothing happened. The McCanns wouldn't be the first to do that. Also if we consider tem suspect and believe they lied, all the timeline gets out of the window. Maddie might się earlier than the May 3rd evening, giving them time to get their composure back. People who think they are innocent like to call in the fact they are doctors. Let me remind you that the doctors are specifically taught to work under pressure and keep calm even in the most emotional situations.
It wasn't superfast though. It was two weeks later. Though John McCann, Gerry's brother, was acting as their PR person before they started working with Mitchell and McGuiness.
What about the friend of the couple who went to check on the kids? I think he was the same who made inappropriate comments about Maddie to her dad no? Also the one who directed the documentary? He's very suspicious. And the blood sniffing dogs from the police did go crazy barking on the parents car. That guy was so weird.....
>What about the friend of the couple who went to check on the kids? I think he was the same who made inappropriate comments about Maddie to her dad no?
No. The man who did the checkup at around 9:30 was Matt Oldfield. The one who had the weird talk with Gerry years before Maddie vanished was David Payne.
Esther McVey was Kate's childhood friend from Liverpool. Esther McVey is a Conservative MP (no doubt the McCanns vote Conservative). In 2007 Esther used to date the then shadow minister for culture, Ed Vaizey.
Gerry's brother John McCann was a medical representative for AstraZeneca. John McCann was a big influence during the media campaigns such as the 'Look into my eye' posters and merchandise.
The McCanns were also friends with Jon Corner, a film producer. Jon Corner was called by the McCanns the night Maddie was reported missing. Jon Corner allegedly had connections with Sky News. As did Rachael Oldfield who also allegedly had connections with Sky, possibly through her job in recruitment/consultancy for UK's biggest companies.
After Maddie was reported missing, the McCanns became acquainted with Clement Freud (former MP and alleged pedophile), Brian Kennedy (millionaire donated to Madeleine Fund and paid for the PI agency Metodo 3), Richard Branson (millionaire donated to the Madeleine Fund), Gordon Brown (then campaigning to become Prime Minister), and Tony and Cherie Blair (Tony was the British Prime Minister in 2007), and Clarence Mitchell (McCann's PR agent, who was sent to them by the UK Foreign Office). Clarence Mitchell was also the director of the Central Office of Information's Media Monitoring Unit in the UK. Millionaire Brian Kennedy shares the same name/surname as Kate's mother Susan Healy (nee Kennedy) and Kate's uncle Brian Kennedy. Unknown if the two Brian Kennedy's are related.
I agree with you. I could never leave a child alone, let alone three and in a country that isnt my own. Even in my own country i wouldnt do it. Not because it isnt safe but theres a deranged person everywhere, it doesnt matter how safe it is where one lives. It kills me that this happened to this little girl because her parents wanted to go to a damn tapas bar if she indeed was kidnapped. I say this with reasonable doubt because i cant 100% say, yeah the parents did it. I cant and i dont think anyone can. I just hope some freaking light is shed on this, even if it was years and years ago. Clearly people are still invested on this. I check online sometimes just to see if there are any breaks. Even if she is dead, i feel so bad for kids that go missing, especially because of negligence.
> I could never leave a child alone, let alone three and in a country that isnt my own. Even in my own country i wouldnt do it.
There is another good reason to not leave three toddlers unsupervised: they are toddlers, with limited mental capability and unlimited ability of getting themselves into danger. Eating inedible and toxic things, choking on weirdest objects, climbing the furniture and falling down, falling out of the windows, the possibilities of having a serious accident by an unsupervised toddler are endless. The McCanns, being doctors, should know that very well.
I never understood. My guess was there was some sort of child care available to parents. I can’t believe a resort that caters to families wouldn’t. I just never understood that 2 doctors not poor people, left 3 babies unattended.
During the day the McCann kids were in kids club from morning to afternoon almost everyday of their holiday.
There was also a babysitting service for evenings but the McCanns didn't use that only the kids club.
The Paynes had a high tech baby monitor so I dont understand why the Tapas 9 if they didnt do the Resorts provided service, didn't put all the children in 1 apartment with the baby monitor, so dinner wouldnt be interrupted with the checks and only would go back if a child woke up.
All of this is pretty convincing circumstantial evidence they drugged them IMO. They didn't need a baby monitor or worry about them waking up and wandering outside because they were unconscious. The fact the McCanns introduced the idea the abductor drugged them -- twins included -- obviously ass covering if the police tested them. Which stupidly LE did much too late to determine anything.
I don't think the investigators found any sedatives in their bags or anything. So if they did buy them in Portugal there would be receipt proof and a employee witness, or they did have sedatives but just got rid of them.
> if they did buy them in Portugal there would be receipt proof and a employee witness
People assume that the PJ followed the McCanns' every move and checked every witness but they didn't. The PJ didn't check receipts at every shop the McCanns went to. The receipts that were checked were the ones from the Dolphin Restaurant and Kelly's Sports Bar near the Smith sighting. However the Baptista supermarket, which we know Gerry went to on the 3rd to buy milk and lunch, was not checked for receipts. Nor was the other shop Spar checked for receipts either. Though it would be unusual to buy sedatives at a local supermarket. After Maddie was reported missing, the McCanns shopped at the Supermercado Budens and the shopping mall in Guia but there are no receipts nor witnesses to that either.
> or they did have sedatives but just got rid of them.
It's a possibility. The McCanns themselves only admitted to having Calpol, Nurofen, Losec and Terfenadine with them on holiday. Only Gerry mentioned Terfenadine, Kate omitted Terfenadine from her statement. However Terfenadine is marketed as a non-sedative antihistamine. In the UK, Terfenadine was only available on prescription as it had been removed from the shelves in 1997 due to side effects such as cardiac arrhythmia.
And yes, Calpol itself is not a sedative as it's only paracetamol. However an article written in 2005 "Are we using too much Calpol?" British parents admitted to using Calpol to placate their children. So it was a known issue in the UK. The only sedative Calpol was Calpol Night (with antihistamine). It was granted a license in early 2007 but only appeared on the open market in late 2007. However Kate as a GP could possibly have been given a sample by pharmaceutical representatives looking to market the new product. Calpol Night was quietly discontinued a few years later because it was considered too dangerous for children under 5.
The PJ never did a full inventory of the McCanns' possessions but there are [pictures of the crime scene](https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_22.jpg). The blue and white packaging near the passports is definitely not Calpol or Nurofen. Perhaps Terfenadine, Losec, bandaids or something else unknown? I haven't been able to find packaging that matches to Terfenadine or Losec though it could be Losec with a slightly different design.
I’ve always had a huge issue with them leaving her and her younger brothers alone and being that far away. If they were on the patio outside the apartment there would be no issue. But the distance is too far for such young children.
Madeleine couldn't have died before May 3rd. Many people confirmed seeing her alive. Even the Créche workers. No matter what happened in that apartment or whatever sicko was prowling around. She was alive that day
The parents left the children every night, not just that one.
Their friends took turns checking on everyone's children so it would be risky to do that if Madeleine was already missing, unless they had hoped that another adult would discover this.
I recall an article saying that a construction workers' trench and/or storm drains were installed near where Madeleine went missing and the police stopped looking there but so much of what was in the papers at the time was later proven to be untrue.
I think she's dead. I have no idea why she was never found. If the parents had disposed of the body I believe it would have turned up by now.
I believe that the parents were negligent. I do not believe that they murdered their child.
"*I do not believe that they murdered their child.*"
Only a tiny minority (if that) believe that they murdered their child.
The 'argument' is that Maddie died accidentally, and that her parents covered this up, and insisted she was abducted.
I'm inclined to agree with the accident/covered up theory, **BUT** there is no reasonable explanation as to how her parents managed to dispose of her body so well (in a foreign country) that her body was never found.
I think someone took her. They left the patio door unlock so someone could have just easily went in, picked her up and left. If she was given a dosage of sleeping medicine then that helped the burglar even more. Someone had to have been stalking the Tapas 9 when they saw how many children were in the group and unfortunately Madeleine was chosen, but I pray to god Maddie didn't suffer, I also wonder where she is and why a body hasn't turned up. The cadaver dogs didn't find her scent outside 5A, so I wonder if she was taken in a car because there was a parking lot down the road from 5A (Or her scent faded away considering the dogs came on July 31st 2007 and Madeleine vanished May 3rd)
> Their friends took turns checking on everyone's children so it would be risky to do that if Madeleine was already missing, unless they had hoped that another adult would discover this.
It's a possibility.
Although out of all the friends, it was only Matt that checked on someone else's children. All others, Jane, Russell, and Gerry, only checked on their own children. For example Gerry never checked on his friends children nor did Jane/Russell check on Matt's child. It seems that out of all days Matt's check was the first time during the holiday that someone other than the child's parents checked on them.
> I recall an article saying that a construction workers' trench and/or storm drains were installed near where Madeleine went missing and the police stopped looking there but so much of what was in the papers at the time was later proven to be untrue.
The construction trenches were closer into town on Rua Direita and were checked by police. The construction trenches were only 3 foot deep and the workers didn't report anything suspicious.
But what about the cadaver and blood dogs indicating? And the weird connections between the McCanns and influential people?
And most of all for me, what about the way Kate talks about Maddy in her book?
You may well be right but I do think there's some evidence of extra strangeness from the McCann's, not just negligence
I agree obviously with the fact that the parents were negligent. I know that they didnt dine out only one night, i didnt say it was only one night. I said that when the alarm was raised by Kate i am unsure of how that would give time for a crime scene clean up. Doesnt compute for me. Based on what ive seen and read. Im not closed off to hearing theories of course since no one knows what happened with 100% exactitude. I think it makes sense to be open minded here
I meant that this was a holiday routine. The children were all seen in the afternoon. The parents would not have had time to dispose/clean up imo before the dinner routine where random adults would be checking up that all three in the room were okay. The parents would not have known that the particular adult who did the rounds before the mother wasn't checking properly.
Yeah it was a routine for them. I am saying that i dont see how they would have had time to wipe clean a crime scene. I believe you are saying the same there.
They weren't checking though. The timeline is fake and we have evidence they faked it (an alternate timeline found by PJ in the files). Nobody saw those children after the creche and TBH that's not definite as the right day or right child. I've always assumed they lied about this to cover their own negligence.
(There's Payne's weird multiply changing statement which I don't credit because Kate says he never went in and he backtracked on being sure he saw M.)
We don't know if the timeline is "fake" but there are discrepancies. For instance the timings change and in the first written timeline Jane's second check and Matt's second check are not mentioned.
Occam's Razor - I believe Maddie died in 5A and no abduction took place.
Maddie being dead isn't the crux of the case IMO, I accept that as a given.
The mystery is how/when the parents disposed of the body
Regarding the suspect if you're referring to CB - I also believe he has absolutely nothing to do with this and the germans will quietly close the case once they have exhausted all their parlour tricks.
Occam's Razor would also suggest that it is highly unlikely she could have died and they could have disposed of the body in the short timeframe between when she was the kids club and they went for dinner, never to be found again, in a foreign country where they had no connections or familiarity with the area.
Occam's razor would also suggest it was nigh on impossible that they could have hidden her body and removed it at a later date, again nowhere to be found. They were under huge scrutiny and surrounded by people in the days afterwards.
To me, occam's razor suggests she was abducted.
Yeah Occam’s razor is telling me the paedo murdered guy who was in the area, familiar with the resort and even had broken into those apartments before had something to do with it.
Well you seem pretty convinced that the parents did it. Im approaching this with more skepticism as there is nothing 100% conclusive pointing to the real truth.
To be fair, that commenter did mention Occam's Razor, which takes into account that nothing is 100% conclusive.
Why do you feel approaching something with skepticism is more worthy than using a problem-solving principle? Is it simply because you don't agree with their conclusions?
I think problem solving is incredibly essential to cracking cases. Its true, the commenter did mention it and stated their pov. Mine is that i am approaching it with skepticism because ive done my thinking, ive looked at presented evidence and there isnt one theory i can confidently support more than the other. I am not saying that my pov is more worthy
I am as convinced as I can be without having absolute proof. While I acknowledge that nothing can be 100% conclusive, some scenarios are undeniably more plausible than others. For instance, one could argue that she was abducted by aliens, and while we can't completely rule that out, it remains highly improbable.
For me, it boils down to likelihood. Yes, the possibility of a trafficking ring exists, but given all the necessary factors for that to happen, I find it extremely unlikely. Considering the totality of the evidence, I am inclined to believe that her parents accidentally killed her in 5A. This seems the most probable scenario based on the proven evidence we have so far.
Therefore, I believe not all theories and options are equal; some carry significantly more weight and higher probabilities than others. Just because we can't be 100% certain doesn't mean we can't propose a theory that is most logical and probable.
There are too many signs, odd behaviors, and occurrences that may seem insignificant on their own, but when combined, they are hard to dismiss as mere luck, fluke, or coincidence.
It’s a miracle that anyone other than the parents was even considered or investigated. I believe that Kate might have cracked and confessed if there had been more pressure and she had been questioned alone.
> It’s a miracle that anyone other than the parents was even considered or investigated.
What? This is just false. They were investigated and deemed arguidos, and the police that investigated them ended up apologising.
I respect your opinion. If thats what you think based on what we know thats what you think. I feel uncomfortable leaning towards something or other strongly because we have facts pointing in different directions.
Too many to name, sorry. You can go ahead and check it out, all the info is out there on the more known things that the police discovered. Im talking about solid things that can be confirmed, even if they are little things. How one puts things together based on the info thats out there is another matter. I can accept something as fact but that might not necessarily feel like a fact to you
You don't have to name them all, I was just interested to know what fscts exactly led you to believe it couldn't have been the parents and that she was abducted. All the things in the case we know for a fact point to it not being a kidnapping.
The kidnapping theory is based mostly solely on McCanns and friends statements and speculation.
> All the things in the case we know for a fact point to it not being a kidnapping.
What?
It all points to an abduction.
They are a family on vacation in a foreign country, surrounded by friends, and after the vanishing surrounded by media and police and concerned people. How could they have gotten a dead body to vanish into thin air without a witness seeing anything or leaving any evidence behind? It defies logic.
AND we have three independent witnesses seeing a man carrying a child like Madeleine away from the scene, the night she vanished, almost simultaneously as Kate found out Madeleines bed was empty and sounded the alarm. This mysterious man could not be Gerry, since he was sitting with his friends at the restaurant at that time. Meaning, it very very likely was the actual abductor.
Having visited the location whilst in the area. The window was too high off the ground to sneak in and out of. Never mind carry a small child. The apartment was at the top of a cobbled hill. Not ideal for running carrying a small child. The restaurant had no actual line of sight to the apartment
> The mystery is how/when the parents disposed of the body
No. That is not the "mystery".
It clearly was an abduction.
Stop accusing innocent people of this heinous crime without evidence.
> If they had been able to throw her in the ocean, i think her body would have been washed up somewhere at some point.
There's a plane still missing for the past 10 years
Yeah but i think in order for that body to not wash up they would have had to taken it out in a boat very far away from the coast. Not just thrown her off a cliff. I could be wrong, im not saying im right here.
We’ve heard more than a few times that the German police have absolute evidence that MM is dead and that CB killed her, but if the evidence is really that strong then why hasn’t he been charged with her death? It’s been at least a couple of years since we first heard about the supposed evidence.
Also, aside from the German police’s suspicions, no one has ever provided a single shred of evidence that there was an abduction.
Truth is, I don’t think we’ll ever find out what happened to that poor little girl.
>My doubts in regards to the parents doing it is that i am unsure of how they would have had time to clean all evidence before the mother raised the alarm at the tapas bar. If the timeline is correct.
And that's very big if.
>Apart from that they werent that familiarized with the place to find such a perfect hiding spot that the body wouldnt be found.
Don't really know where that belief stems from. The McCanns were avid joggers who already spent almost a week running every day around PdL. Also, we are not talking here about hiding/disposing a body of a fully grown adult. Maddie was a little girl, slim and 90 cm tall. You don't need much space to hide a body that small.
Yes but wasnt that their first time in Luz? I think its a pretty safe thing to say that even if you exercise in a place for a week you’re not gonna be looking for the most perfect hiding spot in case you accidentally off someone.
No, but when you jog around a small town for some days, you get to know the area well enough to be able to remember, when the time comes to hide a body, that there is that huge wasteland plot not that far from your resort, all overgrown by bushes and pines, great as at least temporary hiding spot (the Smithman was seen exactly on the way from the OC to that plot). Or that there is a building site with some open digs for the foundations. Or that there are these rocks, full of nooks and crannies that can fit this small body.
That is one of my imaginings regarding this. I’ve been on rocky beaches where there were these weird little holes. I have looked in them and wondered where they went. I could see the McCann’s seeing places like that along the beach.
"*I’ve been on rocky beaches where there were these weird little holes. I have looked in them and wondered where they went. I could see the McCann’s seeing places like that along the beach.*"
I live very close to a quiet, rocky beach with many 'hidey holes' in the rocks. The smell of a decomposing body is truly horrible, and would quickly be discovered. Especially in a tourist area.
Perhaps they're not sewage drains but there are open drains in Praia da Luz like [this drain](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0864068,-8.7336833,3a,75y,276.17h,80.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx4-vcAIf83vTb5-u9mPM4g!2e0!5s20180901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu) and [this drain] (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0845199,-8.7298752,3a,15y,12.46h,99.62t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNN-t8QbjfxRT32aq-WlvXMm1-qVSdb6nl5B-B2!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNN-t8QbjfxRT32aq-WlvXMm1-qVSdb6nl5B-B2%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya162.85396-ro0-fo100!7i10240!8i5120?coh=205409&entry=ttu) and a few others.
And if Maddie's body had been dumped in an ordinary open drain, the horrendous, putrifying smell would have been obvious.
I only know this because decades ago I smelt something horrible (on an English moor), and went to investigate. It was a putrifying sheep.
Please don't misunderstand, as I agree that the abduction theory is more than unlikely.
So the garbage bins seem more likely then.
Kate describing her and Gerry's early morning search: *"We looked in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere. I remember opening a big dumpster-type bin and saying to myself, please God, don’t let her be in here. The most striking and horrific thing about all this was that we were completely alone."*
An abduction possibly could have happened. I just don't think the McCanns would have gotten away with this so easily considering the timeline and everyone watching their every move. I think she got abducted especially since witnesses said they saw men behaving oddly near 5A, including 1 after the abduction. 1 witness saw a man near the ocean club watching 5A and saw him again on May 2nd, a van was also near 5A also. On May 3rd after she was reported missing, a man was near 5A and he apparently looked around suspiciously before shutting the gate. The Smithman was also never identified also. There was an increase in burglary between January and May 2007. A person who had 5A before the McCanns found someone on their balcony. Pedophiles were also prowling about in the area. 2 burglaries happened in the McCanns block 2 weeks before Maddie vanished. A woman in purple was seen near 5A staring it down the evening Madeleine vanished (Possibly keeping watch for someone?) CB had a 30 minute phone call the evening Madeleine vanished, as well as assaulting young girls before her disappearance. God knows what poor Madeleine went through if she got snatched.
I think no matter what happened, she’s dead now. Whether she died in 5A or was taken by someone, I doubt traffickers or kidnappers would’ve taken the risk of keeping her alive with how high profile and well-funded her case was/is. There are several kidnapping or missing person cases that are high profile (Jaycee Lee Dugard, Natasha Kampusch, Elisabeth Fritzl) however the case of Madeleine McCann is globally known. No matter where she ended up, I can’t imagine those who had her would’ve taken the risk of keeping her alive.
I feel awful for her. She was just a little girl. She either died in 5A at the hands of her parents or due to their negligence, or she was taken, also due to her parents negligence. I feel terribly for her siblings as well and I hope in our lifetime we find something conclusive that explains what happened to her so her family can have closure.
Yeah. I feel awful for her too. This reminds me a bit of Caylee Marie Anthony but at least there was some type or resolution there. Not justice, but a conclusion
I would think she was killed within 2-3 days of her capture - once the media came in on it Maddie was too hot to handle. I honestly do not believe she was alive after that first week.
I think she is dead. I think your comments are reasonable though and I would love to be wrong.
One thought, the timeline is really open to question, and I suspect the parents had more time than they reported - all said without prejudice, of course.
I don’t think CB has anything to do with MMcC’s disappearance - he seems to me to be a patsy. After all the big statements from the German prosecutor, they have come up with nothing.
She's dead. She was dead before they even went out for their meal that night. Too many things pointed to it that were swept under the rug in favour of the abduction theory.
I hope to see a definitive conclusion in this lifetime as well. I agree, the only way in which that girl is alive is if she is being held captive. It is to my understanding that a lot of these kids are held captive and away from prying eyes when it comes to pedophile rings.
I think she's dead. She could have been snatched out that apartment. Who knows she probably didn't even die in Portugal. For all we know she could have been killed in a whole different country and hidden far from Portugal.
I agree with various theories but this one, in regards to her dying in another country? I dont see how that would be possible. She was seen on the plane flying there and seen at the resort by several witnesses.
I didnt say dying before arriving to Portugal. I meant someone abducting her and taking her somewhere else and possibly being killed in a different location other then Portugal. She could have been driven out, roadblocks weren't put in place till the following morning which was more than enough time to drive out the country.
the police said they found evidence that suggests she is dead and that christian b killed her, however i do not know what said evidence is. they dont have enough evidence to conclusively prove it but imo its clear he did it
I don’t know why she hasn’t been declared dead in absentia yet. She’s been missing nearly 20 years. There’s been no signs of her since her disappearance. All very odd. Most people are declared dead by now.
Even if she was taken without the intention of killing her, I think once they saw how high profile the case became they would have quickly dispatched of her tbh.
99.9% dead.
Two theories are that she died in that apartment and the parents disposed of the body.
Or she was abducted by pedophiles. Given the man hunt for her and her usual eye colouring then any abduction gang either abused her for a few days and then killed her or killed her fairly quickly. She was too "hot" to pass around.
I'd lean to theory 1, but I accept the evidence for both is circumstantial.
I feel the same way. Im leaning towards different things. Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part because i want something, anything conclusive to be found.
I would imagine she is dead, but there is a tiny possibility she is still alive. There have been cases of people held for decades.
I don't see any way the parents could have gotten rid of her body, never to be found, on the night in question, or days later when they were under such scrutiny.
One question I have is- do we have evidence that Bruekner ever killed anyone else? It sounds like he has done horrendous things and raped a lot of people, but has he killed anyone else?
If he is a known killer, I would say he filmed himself abusing her and then killed her. If he is not a known killer, I would say he kidnapped her, filmed himself abusing her, and then sold her to others to do with as they wished. If he was involved, He definitely wanted the clout and $ of having that footage. He was very big into the online pedo rings that highly value such footage.
The parents also look suspicious. Truly a mystery.
There isn't evidence of him killing someone, but I wouldn't past him as he assaulted many women including an elderly woman and allegedly had sex with his dogs. Considering he's a low life with really no fear of the law I wouldn't say he isn't capable of killing a person. Especially considering Madeleine was only 3 and tiny she couldve been easy to strangle really which is unfortunate to even think about.
> allegedly had sex with his dogs
Is he charged with that or just a media accusation? I recall they said the same thing about Murrat then it all disappeared into the eather as all the eyewitnesses took back their statements simultaneously.
It must be a media accusation to stir up drama cause when I first heard about it I tried searching for something related about that to him. I did read about him abusing a friends 4 year old daughter though.
It really is 50/50 isn't it?
let's look at the possibilities:
1) She's dead.
The question is then where's the body, who, why, where, when?
There's really only 2 possibilities of who, the parents or a random unknown third party.
If it was one or both parent/s, why? Either deliberate , hard to believe given no other red flags that I'm aware of or accidentally. One common theory is a light sedative was given so parents could have a night out , knowing kids wouldn't stir; If that's the case and it went wrong, would they really be able to cover it up for so long , with all the guilt and remorse for either one or both of them to carry around?
Again, if it was a tragic accident by parent/s from otherwise loving family, are they really just going to carelessly un-ceromonously toss her corpse somewhere; or are they more likely to want to bury her & lay her to rest , which would take time to plan, find location, prepare the location, move the body to the location, etc possibly have to hide the body until can move to site. *increase risk of being caught and/or evidence leading to discovery of body , so why hasn't it been found?
If it's an unknown random person who took and killed her , they wouldn't be as bothered on the method of disposal , could've burnt it, used acid, maybe they're local and know the area more , so certainly be easier for them to dispose of the body recklessly with the main focus of concealment of their crime. Less likely to leave evidence leading to discovery of body and as unknown , no connection less guilt and remorse.
2) she's alive
Now let's suppose she's still alive, if she was , this then would obviously rule out the parents. I don't think the parents are "the girl in basement" type again too high profile.
If it's an unknown third party again the question is why? What's the motive to keeping her alive? No ransom demands , so either trafficked either to be used as a form of slave but she was only 3 at the time, rules out domestic servitude, if sex slave either died from injuries and the abuse again given her age at the time, so unlikely if used in videos etc again unless somehow covered up and masked too distinctive and would've been recognised and seen
or ;
sold on for adoption but be limited due to distinctive features and publicity so she would've spent several years being kept out of sight, which depending on country could be challenging. She's now nearly 20 and whilst only 3 at the time she would've noticed the strange new situation . Ok 8 know the girl kept in the basement for 18 years iirc just accepted the new norm I'm sure daughter of 2 intelligent drs would figure out something is up by now and either would've been seen rescued , escaped or we're back to 1.Along with fact that's odds stacked against her still being alive over the amount of time passed so more likely then not , I suspect dead due to third party involvement ...
"*One common theory is a light sedative was given so parents could have a night out , knowing kids wouldn't stir; If that's the case and it went wrong, would they really be able to cover it up for so long , with all the guilt and remorse for either one or both of them to carry around?*"
Knowing that if they (both were doctors) had given their children a sedative so that they could go out to eat and drink - it would result in the twins being removed from their care. That's a huge incentive to hide Maddie dying accidentally.
Yes there's a motive and incentive as not only would they lose the twins , they'd also be struck off so have no career and potentially be imprisoned , having said that I do still if it was a genuine "accident" of otherwise morale and upstanding people with good character , (otherwise there be other red flags that just hadn't come to light that I'm aware of) they would've cracked with guilt by now and they would've still have been" respectful " to the body, they wouldn't just dump or hack it, they would take care of it.
If 1 parent had administrated the lethal dose they wouldn't be able to keep that to themselves and would involve the other and no doubt one of them wouldn't put there's hand up to protect the other and family and deny that other was involved.... Again if both were involved and complicit they still probably get one to take the hit to allow a proper burial .... so based on balance of normal realms I still can't see it being the parents...I know stats are against it but still
I think Christian had something to do with it, why would he brag to a friend about having taken her?
He will likely go to his grave with the truth of what happened 😟
John Mark Karr *bragged to a journalist* that he raped and killed JonBenet Ramsey. Pedophiles are freaks. Assuming the jailhouse snitch is being honest.
After reading this, it got me thinking what if Maddy wasn't even in the room the whole time everyone was checking in on the kids ?
If you think about it this way then the parents all the time in the world to clean up and dispose of Maddy 😔
I don't believe that unless they wanted someone else to discover Madeleine being gone. I think she was in the room and got taken right after Matthew's "check"
If a pedophile took her, he's not going to keep her alive. Gerry kept saying bizarre things like how outrageous it was the police believed she was dead or even came to harm. If abducted she's being horribly raped at the least. IDK that line always bothered me.
I think she’s dead given the arrest and what the German police have discovered but aren’t telling us. Her parents share some blame here because who the fuck would leave their child alone like that.
I wish I remembered the name but there are some (I thought at the time) pretty good but super long YouTube videos by a guy about why he thinks the parents did it. The timeline IS wrong according to him, according to him she died a full day before she was reported missing
I wish I could remember the guy or video titles but it might come up if you search. The videos are like hour+ long each and go pretty deep into his theories which are decently backed up with stuff. Idk about how backed up the timeline theory is tho
The parents are VERY WEIRD people. First that story about the dad and his guy friend making inappropriate comments about little Maddie, the friend is so suspicious, I think the one who went to check on the kids or another? It's been too long since I've watched the documentary, but I know it's the one who helped make the documentary. Also, they left everything unlocked. Unlocked! Open windows!? Were they hoping someone would kidnap the kids? So reckless! How can a parent do something like that? One's child is the most precious thing they have! Would they leave a million dollars in the apartment with the windows open???? Yes she could have been taken as well. If she was... There's a reason they think she's dead. So sad... It's my parents'fault, no matter what happened! Edit: I remember after reading another comment, she may as well have died in the apartment, those parents, SUSPICIOUS and WEIRD, have I said that before?
People’s ideas of child trafficking is so out of wack with the reality. Sadly, there are many abused and neglected kids, children of alcoholics, drug addicts, living on the street, etc., for traffickers to get virtually voluntarily from their parents. They are not risking whatever they have going by kidnapping cute, blonde children of middle or upper middle class tourists. And if they did do such a thing without realizing who they were taking, they are getting rid of (as in, killing, or just dropping off somewhere) fast.
The parents left from the house at around 6 o clock in the morning ALONE "to search for her", if you want answers on how they did it you have to mail them and ask them
I don't think so. I think if an accident happened I believe Kate and Gerry wouldn't risk telling their friend considering how incredibly horrific it was.
jmo:
* it's about the pedophile ring
* *there are different kinds: some low-level, some high-level. One that would order the abduction of a British child would likely be high-level.*
* C.B. was paid to steal her. He's a reckless criminal. He is not one of them, but they use him for things no sane person would try. The media attention forced them to change their plan.
* someone found an old german couple to take her
* C.B. thinks she died, from sickness, while in Morocco (or wherever he thinks they were hiding her). *That's why he is so confident although they keep accusing him of having killer her. He assumes this means they don't have anything.*
* the authorities are slowly untangling the criminal enterprise (pedophiles, once apprehended, usually tell on their friends or end themselves). *Some in that business are not into kids, but they are into money.* There have been some big busts over the past few years: [Germany busts international child pornography ring with 400,000 members - National | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/7829680/germany-child-pornography-ring-darkweb-boystown/)
* if the authorities accuse him enough times of killing her, he would, hopefully, reply, "I didn't kill her, but I stole her"
* problem is he likes high-risk, so it's not easy to get him to confess. Plus, there's Inga Gehricke and figuring out what happened to her. I hope she is still alive, but sadly, on her page on Missing Persons Wiki, it indicates "suspected homicide". [Inga Gehricke | International Missing Persons Wiki | Fandom](https://int-missing.fandom.com/wiki/Inga_Gehricke)
The German police told the media that they have evidence that Maddie is dead - but never provided any evidence to support this claim.
How could providing evidence that Maddie is dead, possibly hurt a case against CB?
As the German police **were happy to tell the media** they had proof that CB was responsible for Maddie's death and that Maddie is dead - and yet still haven't charged him or provided any evidence to back up the claims they made **TO THE MEDIA!..**.... I take their media statements with a pinch of salt.
Obviously, they have a strategy (whether we like that strategy or not).
*This* ***might*** *be a master class in doing whatever it is they are trying to do.*
In June of 2020 (when they first announced C.B. is the suspect), they were genuinely concerned he would be freed and they would lose him again (which might explain their approach).
If a pedophile ring is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, that same ring might ensure C.B. stays hidden and unfindable or no longer exists, in which case they lose the strand they are hoping to pull to reveal this atrocious enterprise.
Notice the scarcity of articles linking C.B. to the Boytown bust (2021) - [Suspects in global paedo ring linked to Madeleine McCann ‘kidnapper’ Christian B go on trial in Germany | The Sun](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18160631/suspects-paedo-ring-madeleine-mccann-kidnapper-trial/)
Even if all that were true I'd still argue with you about the word "well" having been through kidnapping, human trafficking, and the hands of various pedophiles.
In that line of speculation, she wasn't harmed by pedophiles.
The police could show up any day, why would they risk it?
Once they've stolen her, they don't kill her for the same reason.
Find some gullible old people, tell them you'll kill them and her if they don't stay quiet, then they raise her.
If pedophiles stole a child why would they not harm them? Kidnapping a child is "risky" and a crime already. Do you think they really took her then decided to abandon the mission? If an old couple raised her I'm shed figure out who she was especially since she would look noting like the people raising her.
They have to confirm she is. She could write a notice to the investigators saying she's well but they have to confirm because it could be a kidnapper who wrote that pretending to be her. Even if she was well which I doubt, she's still technically missing as well as the case needing to be ended. I do doubt she's "alive and well" though
Well yes but in what world would an “alive and well” Madeleine allow the investigation to continue without contacting some sort of authority to say as much. Even if she doesn’t want to be with her parents, or speak publicly etc.
Yes but the police would still need to confirm its her, she would have to show up in person and talk to the police and investigators and take a DNA test. We all know what happened with the Julia Wendell situation lol. Also if it was Madeleine confirmed with DNA and such it wouldn't entirely close the case as they would need to prosecute whoever snatched her/raised her cause if she was sold to a childless couple they are technically apart of human trafficking and kidnapping even if she wasn't harmed and nobody laid a finger on her.
No… but saying that she’s likely to be “alive and well” is quite a stretch. I don’t believe that’s the real motivation to solve the case at this point. Sad to say it.
That's your speculation. I never mentioned that. If that had happened, no amount of fear that her adopted parents would be harmed would be sufficient to keep her from contacting the authorities.
If the people who raised her were good to her and kind and loving, I can understand why she wouldn't contact the authorities.
A pedo taking her and trying to give her away is too risky. I highly doubt someone took her and then after the case got widespread and into the media decided "Hey let me try selling this kid to a couple so she's not in my hands anymore" that would practically be telling on yourself. I dont think a couple would want a child anyway thats face is all over the world.
Let's say there was a person whose job it was to move the children through the respective countries (possibly an adult who had been a victim of one of these rings).
Usually, it would be a quick process. In this case it wasn't, due to the media attention. They had to hold her in spots.
Normally, they lie to the kid then move them swiftly.
In this case, she had to ensure Madeleine was well enough and alive, just in case they got caught. *They can always lie and say they are selling the child for adoption (not for abuse).*
In the interim, the McCanns are bombarding the airwaves with photos and stories of this much loved child.
Also, in the interim, Madeleine does not complain, but looks exceptionally sad. She stands out because she is so fair. When she is in Morocco, people notice her due to her fair-ness.
In Mauritania, they notice her due to her sadness.
What to do? What to do?
If you get caught, you don't want to be charged with murder, let alone this child who is now the interest of the world.
You hope her parents will give up, but instead they seem to get more organized, more focused, more fierce. The world attacks them, yet they beat on.
Maybe you know someone. Someone with money. Someone whose lifestyle could allow this child to be educated and grow, yet not out in the open.
Maybe rich old germans with Philippine servants, who don't/won't ask many questions.
You bring over this beautiful child who is thrilled to see and use their pool. This elderly, childless couple adores the happy little mermaid who splashes and giggles. They are told she is unwanted. They take her on without realizing. Once they are attached, they are told she will be killed if they notify anyone...
We, obviously, know there are old rich Nazis (not saying they are involved), just that people can exist under the radar, yet thrive.
Once she's old enough to realize, she knows that if they find her, it will ruin her adoptive parents, so she stays mum.
Just a theory...
That's quiet unlikely but not an impossible theory considering its been 17 years and a body or even a hint of remains hasn't popped up. I mean i'd rather this be the outcome and her coming forward eventually then her accidentally dying in 5A or being abducted and going through god knows what with a pedophile and being killed.
I have a theory ! She was kidnapped by someone involved in trafficking. Then she was sold and probably has a different name now and doesn’t remember anything now since she was just a baby when she was kidnapped.
This is something ive considered. There have been cases of kids found years and years later, that escaped somehow or were recognized. Ive honestly considered both things, shes dead and at peace or is in a horrible situation.
If the hypothesis that she's still alive is correct, then it's highly likely she will speak a different language to English. But then that makes it far less likely that she will come forward of her own accord, because she won't be able to understand news articles and social media content about the case (which are mostly written either in English or Portuguese) and put two and two together.
I remember playing the UK edition of Cards Against Humanity at university once, which does include a Madeleine McCann item card, and although I used it to absolutely trump the round, 75% of the other players (mostly Italians and Japanese) had never heard the name before. It's a misconception to say that this case is known even Europe-wide, let alone worldwide, it's not.
I find it unlikely that she could be trafficked with such a distinctive physical feature as the partial heterochromia (or whatever the eye mark is) and not be spotted. Such a high profile kidnapping would be against the best interests of a trafficker, especially once the news began to cover the eye as a specifying feature and it’s possible she could have been killed over this issue I would love a positive outcome here but I just don’t think it’s realistic
She would definitely be killed over her eye feature. In fact the parents were told to not talk about that in the media and were informed by the police that if they would, she would be killed if she had been abducted for trafficking. Next thing the McCann's talked about in the media was her distinctive eye feature 💀 That talk was before all the evidence of her having died in the apartment came to light and the Portuguese police learned that the McCann's had covered it up (badly).
I think the parents know what happened to her... Their guy friend was weird, he said inappropriate things about Maddie to her dad, iirc he was the one who went to check on the kids. He's a very weird guy. She could have died in the apartment, on his hands, not getting into details. The police dogs that sniff for blood DID alert there was something in the car, probably had been cleaned by then, or maybe just the smell of blood that was left there. Ugh
Well ; I was about to type exactly the same thing.That Madeline's distinctive eye would mean that ,if she was still alive;she would recognise herself in any photo or TV appeal.I'm afraid that leaves me with one conclusion,that she was murdered by Christian B.
Agreed. I also do not think her parents had anything to do with her death. I think she was taken and SA and unalived, sadly 🥺 unless she is living in a remote village somewhere where she has no access to internet and no one can find her. No matter which scenario is the truth, it’s a sad case and one that I think of often 😔
What evidence do you have that she was taken? It’s highly unlikely given the evidence.
Makes me nauseous to type this…but they could have resorted to blinding her instead.
Umm, i dont know… im sure there are other kids who have distinctive features who are sold of as well. Anything is possible. Its not like those kids are allowed to roam freely. They are usually trapped somewhere
I was gonna say this. About her eye. With all the news about her, if she were alive she would hopefully question her double pupil (?) and wonder if she were indeed Madeleine.
I really don’t know. Sometimes I think it is weird what they found at the apartment, like the corpse smell, the blood, the shutter thing, the neighbour that heard Maddie crying for hours. On the other hand, how could the parents have killed Maddie without anyone noticing and just keep on having dinner with friends. Doesn’t make sense. Even if it was an accident it doesn’t make sense. But what I don’t understand about the parents is leaving them alone in the apartment. I would be scared to death my 3 yo (I am mother to a 3 yo girl), would walk out and drown in the pool. I mean, my daughter also wakes up in the middle of night to go to the toilet. I think she would go look for us if we weren’t in the apartment. I cannot understand how 2 intelligent people like the McCans haven’t thought about that. It is a weird case, very very weird.
>On the other hand, how could the parents have killed Maddie without anyone noticing and just keep on having dinner with friends. The history of crime is chock full of people who murdered their nearest and dearest and carried on like nothing happened. The McCanns wouldn't be the first to do that. Also if we consider tem suspect and believe they lied, all the timeline gets out of the window. Maddie might się earlier than the May 3rd evening, giving them time to get their composure back. People who think they are innocent like to call in the fact they are doctors. Let me remind you that the doctors are specifically taught to work under pressure and keep calm even in the most emotional situations.
Also apparently they hired a PR person super fast which has always irked me
It wasn't superfast though. It was two weeks later. Though John McCann, Gerry's brother, was acting as their PR person before they started working with Mitchell and McGuiness.
What about the friend of the couple who went to check on the kids? I think he was the same who made inappropriate comments about Maddie to her dad no? Also the one who directed the documentary? He's very suspicious. And the blood sniffing dogs from the police did go crazy barking on the parents car. That guy was so weird.....
>What about the friend of the couple who went to check on the kids? I think he was the same who made inappropriate comments about Maddie to her dad no? No. The man who did the checkup at around 9:30 was Matt Oldfield. The one who had the weird talk with Gerry years before Maddie vanished was David Payne.
Thanks for clarifying! Tbh, I trust no one in that story :/
How were the parents not charged. Awful neglect of their daughter.
Middle class doctors with friends in high places.
Esther McVey was Kate's childhood friend from Liverpool. Esther McVey is a Conservative MP (no doubt the McCanns vote Conservative). In 2007 Esther used to date the then shadow minister for culture, Ed Vaizey. Gerry's brother John McCann was a medical representative for AstraZeneca. John McCann was a big influence during the media campaigns such as the 'Look into my eye' posters and merchandise. The McCanns were also friends with Jon Corner, a film producer. Jon Corner was called by the McCanns the night Maddie was reported missing. Jon Corner allegedly had connections with Sky News. As did Rachael Oldfield who also allegedly had connections with Sky, possibly through her job in recruitment/consultancy for UK's biggest companies. After Maddie was reported missing, the McCanns became acquainted with Clement Freud (former MP and alleged pedophile), Brian Kennedy (millionaire donated to Madeleine Fund and paid for the PI agency Metodo 3), Richard Branson (millionaire donated to the Madeleine Fund), Gordon Brown (then campaigning to become Prime Minister), and Tony and Cherie Blair (Tony was the British Prime Minister in 2007), and Clarence Mitchell (McCann's PR agent, who was sent to them by the UK Foreign Office). Clarence Mitchell was also the director of the Central Office of Information's Media Monitoring Unit in the UK. Millionaire Brian Kennedy shares the same name/surname as Kate's mother Susan Healy (nee Kennedy) and Kate's uncle Brian Kennedy. Unknown if the two Brian Kennedy's are related.
I agree with you. I could never leave a child alone, let alone three and in a country that isnt my own. Even in my own country i wouldnt do it. Not because it isnt safe but theres a deranged person everywhere, it doesnt matter how safe it is where one lives. It kills me that this happened to this little girl because her parents wanted to go to a damn tapas bar if she indeed was kidnapped. I say this with reasonable doubt because i cant 100% say, yeah the parents did it. I cant and i dont think anyone can. I just hope some freaking light is shed on this, even if it was years and years ago. Clearly people are still invested on this. I check online sometimes just to see if there are any breaks. Even if she is dead, i feel so bad for kids that go missing, especially because of negligence.
> I could never leave a child alone, let alone three and in a country that isnt my own. Even in my own country i wouldnt do it. There is another good reason to not leave three toddlers unsupervised: they are toddlers, with limited mental capability and unlimited ability of getting themselves into danger. Eating inedible and toxic things, choking on weirdest objects, climbing the furniture and falling down, falling out of the windows, the possibilities of having a serious accident by an unsupervised toddler are endless. The McCanns, being doctors, should know that very well.
And all of that while you are in the same room as them!! The leaving of those babies is baffling. And so tragic for all involved.
I never understood. My guess was there was some sort of child care available to parents. I can’t believe a resort that caters to families wouldn’t. I just never understood that 2 doctors not poor people, left 3 babies unattended.
I wouldn’t even leave my kids in child care centers in a foreign country, not worth the risk, sorry!
I wouldn’t either.
During the day the McCann kids were in kids club from morning to afternoon almost everyday of their holiday. There was also a babysitting service for evenings but the McCanns didn't use that only the kids club.
The Paynes had a high tech baby monitor so I dont understand why the Tapas 9 if they didnt do the Resorts provided service, didn't put all the children in 1 apartment with the baby monitor, so dinner wouldnt be interrupted with the checks and only would go back if a child woke up.
Or have piece of mind and hire a sitter? I never understood that.
All of this is pretty convincing circumstantial evidence they drugged them IMO. They didn't need a baby monitor or worry about them waking up and wandering outside because they were unconscious. The fact the McCanns introduced the idea the abductor drugged them -- twins included -- obviously ass covering if the police tested them. Which stupidly LE did much too late to determine anything.
I don't think the investigators found any sedatives in their bags or anything. So if they did buy them in Portugal there would be receipt proof and a employee witness, or they did have sedatives but just got rid of them.
> if they did buy them in Portugal there would be receipt proof and a employee witness People assume that the PJ followed the McCanns' every move and checked every witness but they didn't. The PJ didn't check receipts at every shop the McCanns went to. The receipts that were checked were the ones from the Dolphin Restaurant and Kelly's Sports Bar near the Smith sighting. However the Baptista supermarket, which we know Gerry went to on the 3rd to buy milk and lunch, was not checked for receipts. Nor was the other shop Spar checked for receipts either. Though it would be unusual to buy sedatives at a local supermarket. After Maddie was reported missing, the McCanns shopped at the Supermercado Budens and the shopping mall in Guia but there are no receipts nor witnesses to that either. > or they did have sedatives but just got rid of them. It's a possibility. The McCanns themselves only admitted to having Calpol, Nurofen, Losec and Terfenadine with them on holiday. Only Gerry mentioned Terfenadine, Kate omitted Terfenadine from her statement. However Terfenadine is marketed as a non-sedative antihistamine. In the UK, Terfenadine was only available on prescription as it had been removed from the shelves in 1997 due to side effects such as cardiac arrhythmia. And yes, Calpol itself is not a sedative as it's only paracetamol. However an article written in 2005 "Are we using too much Calpol?" British parents admitted to using Calpol to placate their children. So it was a known issue in the UK. The only sedative Calpol was Calpol Night (with antihistamine). It was granted a license in early 2007 but only appeared on the open market in late 2007. However Kate as a GP could possibly have been given a sample by pharmaceutical representatives looking to market the new product. Calpol Night was quietly discontinued a few years later because it was considered too dangerous for children under 5. The PJ never did a full inventory of the McCanns' possessions but there are [pictures of the crime scene](https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_22.jpg). The blue and white packaging near the passports is definitely not Calpol or Nurofen. Perhaps Terfenadine, Losec, bandaids or something else unknown? I haven't been able to find packaging that matches to Terfenadine or Losec though it could be Losec with a slightly different design.
That's an insult to poor people
What does finances have to do with it? Good parenting isn’t based on your bank account.
No it isn’t, but it would make sense to take a babysitter with you or hire one at resort. That’s my opinion.
Or you could watch your own kids on a “family vacation.” Call me crazy. 🤷🏻♀️
I agree your not crazy.
I agree
I always think, what if one of the little ones were sick, could've choked etc....no end to it. I'll never understand.
I feel the same way. So sorry for Maddie, she was just a little girl. It is super sad.
Yeah
A beautiful little girl, it’s horrific
I’ve always had a huge issue with them leaving her and her younger brothers alone and being that far away. If they were on the patio outside the apartment there would be no issue. But the distance is too far for such young children.
Madeleine couldn't have died before May 3rd. Many people confirmed seeing her alive. Even the Créche workers. No matter what happened in that apartment or whatever sicko was prowling around. She was alive that day
i think they meant just a few hours prior
Narcissism at its finest, sadly but one decision that will forever haunt them 😕
I think it's most likely she's dead. I really hope she is because the alternative is too horrific to even consider
I agree. The alternative is horrible
The parents left the children every night, not just that one. Their friends took turns checking on everyone's children so it would be risky to do that if Madeleine was already missing, unless they had hoped that another adult would discover this. I recall an article saying that a construction workers' trench and/or storm drains were installed near where Madeleine went missing and the police stopped looking there but so much of what was in the papers at the time was later proven to be untrue. I think she's dead. I have no idea why she was never found. If the parents had disposed of the body I believe it would have turned up by now. I believe that the parents were negligent. I do not believe that they murdered their child.
"*I do not believe that they murdered their child.*" Only a tiny minority (if that) believe that they murdered their child. The 'argument' is that Maddie died accidentally, and that her parents covered this up, and insisted she was abducted. I'm inclined to agree with the accident/covered up theory, **BUT** there is no reasonable explanation as to how her parents managed to dispose of her body so well (in a foreign country) that her body was never found.
Agreed, the parents were negligent but did not unalive their child
I think someone took her. They left the patio door unlock so someone could have just easily went in, picked her up and left. If she was given a dosage of sleeping medicine then that helped the burglar even more. Someone had to have been stalking the Tapas 9 when they saw how many children were in the group and unfortunately Madeleine was chosen, but I pray to god Maddie didn't suffer, I also wonder where she is and why a body hasn't turned up. The cadaver dogs didn't find her scent outside 5A, so I wonder if she was taken in a car because there was a parking lot down the road from 5A (Or her scent faded away considering the dogs came on July 31st 2007 and Madeleine vanished May 3rd)
> Their friends took turns checking on everyone's children so it would be risky to do that if Madeleine was already missing, unless they had hoped that another adult would discover this. It's a possibility. Although out of all the friends, it was only Matt that checked on someone else's children. All others, Jane, Russell, and Gerry, only checked on their own children. For example Gerry never checked on his friends children nor did Jane/Russell check on Matt's child. It seems that out of all days Matt's check was the first time during the holiday that someone other than the child's parents checked on them. > I recall an article saying that a construction workers' trench and/or storm drains were installed near where Madeleine went missing and the police stopped looking there but so much of what was in the papers at the time was later proven to be untrue. The construction trenches were closer into town on Rua Direita and were checked by police. The construction trenches were only 3 foot deep and the workers didn't report anything suspicious.
But what about the cadaver and blood dogs indicating? And the weird connections between the McCanns and influential people? And most of all for me, what about the way Kate talks about Maddy in her book? You may well be right but I do think there's some evidence of extra strangeness from the McCann's, not just negligence
I agree obviously with the fact that the parents were negligent. I know that they didnt dine out only one night, i didnt say it was only one night. I said that when the alarm was raised by Kate i am unsure of how that would give time for a crime scene clean up. Doesnt compute for me. Based on what ive seen and read. Im not closed off to hearing theories of course since no one knows what happened with 100% exactitude. I think it makes sense to be open minded here
I meant that this was a holiday routine. The children were all seen in the afternoon. The parents would not have had time to dispose/clean up imo before the dinner routine where random adults would be checking up that all three in the room were okay. The parents would not have known that the particular adult who did the rounds before the mother wasn't checking properly.
Yeah it was a routine for them. I am saying that i dont see how they would have had time to wipe clean a crime scene. I believe you are saying the same there.
They weren't checking though. The timeline is fake and we have evidence they faked it (an alternate timeline found by PJ in the files). Nobody saw those children after the creche and TBH that's not definite as the right day or right child. I've always assumed they lied about this to cover their own negligence. (There's Payne's weird multiply changing statement which I don't credit because Kate says he never went in and he backtracked on being sure he saw M.)
How robust is the evidence you cite?
We don't know if the timeline is "fake" but there are discrepancies. For instance the timings change and in the first written timeline Jane's second check and Matt's second check are not mentioned.
Kate's timeline may not be trustworthy
Occam's Razor - I believe Maddie died in 5A and no abduction took place. Maddie being dead isn't the crux of the case IMO, I accept that as a given. The mystery is how/when the parents disposed of the body Regarding the suspect if you're referring to CB - I also believe he has absolutely nothing to do with this and the germans will quietly close the case once they have exhausted all their parlour tricks.
Occam's Razor would also suggest that it is highly unlikely she could have died and they could have disposed of the body in the short timeframe between when she was the kids club and they went for dinner, never to be found again, in a foreign country where they had no connections or familiarity with the area. Occam's razor would also suggest it was nigh on impossible that they could have hidden her body and removed it at a later date, again nowhere to be found. They were under huge scrutiny and surrounded by people in the days afterwards. To me, occam's razor suggests she was abducted.
Yeah Occam’s razor is telling me the paedo murdered guy who was in the area, familiar with the resort and even had broken into those apartments before had something to do with it.
Well you seem pretty convinced that the parents did it. Im approaching this with more skepticism as there is nothing 100% conclusive pointing to the real truth.
To be fair, that commenter did mention Occam's Razor, which takes into account that nothing is 100% conclusive. Why do you feel approaching something with skepticism is more worthy than using a problem-solving principle? Is it simply because you don't agree with their conclusions?
I think problem solving is incredibly essential to cracking cases. Its true, the commenter did mention it and stated their pov. Mine is that i am approaching it with skepticism because ive done my thinking, ive looked at presented evidence and there isnt one theory i can confidently support more than the other. I am not saying that my pov is more worthy
I am as convinced as I can be without having absolute proof. While I acknowledge that nothing can be 100% conclusive, some scenarios are undeniably more plausible than others. For instance, one could argue that she was abducted by aliens, and while we can't completely rule that out, it remains highly improbable. For me, it boils down to likelihood. Yes, the possibility of a trafficking ring exists, but given all the necessary factors for that to happen, I find it extremely unlikely. Considering the totality of the evidence, I am inclined to believe that her parents accidentally killed her in 5A. This seems the most probable scenario based on the proven evidence we have so far. Therefore, I believe not all theories and options are equal; some carry significantly more weight and higher probabilities than others. Just because we can't be 100% certain doesn't mean we can't propose a theory that is most logical and probable. There are too many signs, odd behaviors, and occurrences that may seem insignificant on their own, but when combined, they are hard to dismiss as mere luck, fluke, or coincidence. It’s a miracle that anyone other than the parents was even considered or investigated. I believe that Kate might have cracked and confessed if there had been more pressure and she had been questioned alone.
> It’s a miracle that anyone other than the parents was even considered or investigated. What? This is just false. They were investigated and deemed arguidos, and the police that investigated them ended up apologising.
Convinced as I can be without evidence is sometimes called bamboozled.
I respect your opinion. If thats what you think based on what we know thats what you think. I feel uncomfortable leaning towards something or other strongly because we have facts pointing in different directions.
What facts exactly?
Too many to name, sorry. You can go ahead and check it out, all the info is out there on the more known things that the police discovered. Im talking about solid things that can be confirmed, even if they are little things. How one puts things together based on the info thats out there is another matter. I can accept something as fact but that might not necessarily feel like a fact to you
You don't have to name them all, I was just interested to know what fscts exactly led you to believe it couldn't have been the parents and that she was abducted. All the things in the case we know for a fact point to it not being a kidnapping. The kidnapping theory is based mostly solely on McCanns and friends statements and speculation.
> All the things in the case we know for a fact point to it not being a kidnapping. What? It all points to an abduction. They are a family on vacation in a foreign country, surrounded by friends, and after the vanishing surrounded by media and police and concerned people. How could they have gotten a dead body to vanish into thin air without a witness seeing anything or leaving any evidence behind? It defies logic. AND we have three independent witnesses seeing a man carrying a child like Madeleine away from the scene, the night she vanished, almost simultaneously as Kate found out Madeleines bed was empty and sounded the alarm. This mysterious man could not be Gerry, since he was sitting with his friends at the restaurant at that time. Meaning, it very very likely was the actual abductor.
Having visited the location whilst in the area. The window was too high off the ground to sneak in and out of. Never mind carry a small child. The apartment was at the top of a cobbled hill. Not ideal for running carrying a small child. The restaurant had no actual line of sight to the apartment
The patio door was left unlocked so someone could have easily gotten inside and left.
> The mystery is how/when the parents disposed of the body No. That is not the "mystery". It clearly was an abduction. Stop accusing innocent people of this heinous crime without evidence.
> If they had been able to throw her in the ocean, i think her body would have been washed up somewhere at some point. There's a plane still missing for the past 10 years
Yeah but i think in order for that body to not wash up they would have had to taken it out in a boat very far away from the coast. Not just thrown her off a cliff. I could be wrong, im not saying im right here.
I really hope that she is alive and well
How could she be well? I mean, i dont see how she could be living what is considered a normal life without anyone recognizing her.
We’ve heard more than a few times that the German police have absolute evidence that MM is dead and that CB killed her, but if the evidence is really that strong then why hasn’t he been charged with her death? It’s been at least a couple of years since we first heard about the supposed evidence. Also, aside from the German police’s suspicions, no one has ever provided a single shred of evidence that there was an abduction. Truth is, I don’t think we’ll ever find out what happened to that poor little girl.
\^ This.
>My doubts in regards to the parents doing it is that i am unsure of how they would have had time to clean all evidence before the mother raised the alarm at the tapas bar. If the timeline is correct. And that's very big if. >Apart from that they werent that familiarized with the place to find such a perfect hiding spot that the body wouldnt be found. Don't really know where that belief stems from. The McCanns were avid joggers who already spent almost a week running every day around PdL. Also, we are not talking here about hiding/disposing a body of a fully grown adult. Maddie was a little girl, slim and 90 cm tall. You don't need much space to hide a body that small.
Yes but wasnt that their first time in Luz? I think its a pretty safe thing to say that even if you exercise in a place for a week you’re not gonna be looking for the most perfect hiding spot in case you accidentally off someone.
No, but when you jog around a small town for some days, you get to know the area well enough to be able to remember, when the time comes to hide a body, that there is that huge wasteland plot not that far from your resort, all overgrown by bushes and pines, great as at least temporary hiding spot (the Smithman was seen exactly on the way from the OC to that plot). Or that there is a building site with some open digs for the foundations. Or that there are these rocks, full of nooks and crannies that can fit this small body.
That is one of my imaginings regarding this. I’ve been on rocky beaches where there were these weird little holes. I have looked in them and wondered where they went. I could see the McCann’s seeing places like that along the beach.
"*I’ve been on rocky beaches where there were these weird little holes. I have looked in them and wondered where they went. I could see the McCann’s seeing places like that along the beach.*" I live very close to a quiet, rocky beach with many 'hidey holes' in the rocks. The smell of a decomposing body is truly horrible, and would quickly be discovered. Especially in a tourist area.
Perhaps if her body was left in the open sewage drains then people would think the smell came from the sewage?
Possibly, but I doubt it. **Sewage** drains are normally kept underground?
Perhaps they're not sewage drains but there are open drains in Praia da Luz like [this drain](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0864068,-8.7336833,3a,75y,276.17h,80.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sx4-vcAIf83vTb5-u9mPM4g!2e0!5s20180901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu) and [this drain] (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0845199,-8.7298752,3a,15y,12.46h,99.62t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNN-t8QbjfxRT32aq-WlvXMm1-qVSdb6nl5B-B2!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNN-t8QbjfxRT32aq-WlvXMm1-qVSdb6nl5B-B2%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya162.85396-ro0-fo100!7i10240!8i5120?coh=205409&entry=ttu) and a few others.
And if Maddie's body had been dumped in an ordinary open drain, the horrendous, putrifying smell would have been obvious. I only know this because decades ago I smelt something horrible (on an English moor), and went to investigate. It was a putrifying sheep. Please don't misunderstand, as I agree that the abduction theory is more than unlikely.
So the garbage bins seem more likely then. Kate describing her and Gerry's early morning search: *"We looked in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere. I remember opening a big dumpster-type bin and saying to myself, please God, don’t let her be in here. The most striking and horrific thing about all this was that we were completely alone."*
Listen i respect your opinion. Im not gonna be arrogant and think that im right about this. No one can be 100%.
There is that disappearing tennis bag, which they and David Payne lied about.
An abduction possibly could have happened. I just don't think the McCanns would have gotten away with this so easily considering the timeline and everyone watching their every move. I think she got abducted especially since witnesses said they saw men behaving oddly near 5A, including 1 after the abduction. 1 witness saw a man near the ocean club watching 5A and saw him again on May 2nd, a van was also near 5A also. On May 3rd after she was reported missing, a man was near 5A and he apparently looked around suspiciously before shutting the gate. The Smithman was also never identified also. There was an increase in burglary between January and May 2007. A person who had 5A before the McCanns found someone on their balcony. Pedophiles were also prowling about in the area. 2 burglaries happened in the McCanns block 2 weeks before Maddie vanished. A woman in purple was seen near 5A staring it down the evening Madeleine vanished (Possibly keeping watch for someone?) CB had a 30 minute phone call the evening Madeleine vanished, as well as assaulting young girls before her disappearance. God knows what poor Madeleine went through if she got snatched.
Dead, I think her being alive after all of these years, would mean she will have suffered a fate worse than death.
I think no matter what happened, she’s dead now. Whether she died in 5A or was taken by someone, I doubt traffickers or kidnappers would’ve taken the risk of keeping her alive with how high profile and well-funded her case was/is. There are several kidnapping or missing person cases that are high profile (Jaycee Lee Dugard, Natasha Kampusch, Elisabeth Fritzl) however the case of Madeleine McCann is globally known. No matter where she ended up, I can’t imagine those who had her would’ve taken the risk of keeping her alive. I feel awful for her. She was just a little girl. She either died in 5A at the hands of her parents or due to their negligence, or she was taken, also due to her parents negligence. I feel terribly for her siblings as well and I hope in our lifetime we find something conclusive that explains what happened to her so her family can have closure.
Yeah. I feel awful for her too. This reminds me a bit of Caylee Marie Anthony but at least there was some type or resolution there. Not justice, but a conclusion
I would think she was killed within 2-3 days of her capture - once the media came in on it Maddie was too hot to handle. I honestly do not believe she was alive after that first week.
Agreed
I think she is dead. I think your comments are reasonable though and I would love to be wrong. One thought, the timeline is really open to question, and I suspect the parents had more time than they reported - all said without prejudice, of course. I don’t think CB has anything to do with MMcC’s disappearance - he seems to me to be a patsy. After all the big statements from the German prosecutor, they have come up with nothing.
She's dead. She was dead before they even went out for their meal that night. Too many things pointed to it that were swept under the rug in favour of the abduction theory.
At this point i think it might be umm i dont wanna say better, but the alternative is so horrible.
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When kids are trafficked they do not live normally
Agreed, especially if trafficked at a young age such as Maddie, they would not survive the trauma
I hope to see a definitive conclusion in this lifetime as well. I agree, the only way in which that girl is alive is if she is being held captive. It is to my understanding that a lot of these kids are held captive and away from prying eyes when it comes to pedophile rings.
I think she's dead. She could have been snatched out that apartment. Who knows she probably didn't even die in Portugal. For all we know she could have been killed in a whole different country and hidden far from Portugal.
I agree with various theories but this one, in regards to her dying in another country? I dont see how that would be possible. She was seen on the plane flying there and seen at the resort by several witnesses.
I didnt say dying before arriving to Portugal. I meant someone abducting her and taking her somewhere else and possibly being killed in a different location other then Portugal. She could have been driven out, roadblocks weren't put in place till the following morning which was more than enough time to drive out the country.
Ah gotcha
the police said they found evidence that suggests she is dead and that christian b killed her, however i do not know what said evidence is. they dont have enough evidence to conclusively prove it but imo its clear he did it
People are fallible. The opinions of police officers does not make it clear that what they think happened actually happened.
i do not trust the police but personally i believe christian b is guilty and madeleine is dead
I think he did it too and I pray the evidence comes to light
The word is “disprove” and unfortunately I definitely think she’s deceased.
I don’t know why she hasn’t been declared dead in absentia yet. She’s been missing nearly 20 years. There’s been no signs of her since her disappearance. All very odd. Most people are declared dead by now.
Good point
Even if she was taken without the intention of killing her, I think once they saw how high profile the case became they would have quickly dispatched of her tbh.
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99.9% dead. Two theories are that she died in that apartment and the parents disposed of the body. Or she was abducted by pedophiles. Given the man hunt for her and her usual eye colouring then any abduction gang either abused her for a few days and then killed her or killed her fairly quickly. She was too "hot" to pass around. I'd lean to theory 1, but I accept the evidence for both is circumstantial.
I feel the same way. Im leaning towards different things. Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part because i want something, anything conclusive to be found.
Except if she was already over the border by the time the thing about her eye was released to the public
I would imagine she is dead, but there is a tiny possibility she is still alive. There have been cases of people held for decades. I don't see any way the parents could have gotten rid of her body, never to be found, on the night in question, or days later when they were under such scrutiny.
One question I have is- do we have evidence that Bruekner ever killed anyone else? It sounds like he has done horrendous things and raped a lot of people, but has he killed anyone else? If he is a known killer, I would say he filmed himself abusing her and then killed her. If he is not a known killer, I would say he kidnapped her, filmed himself abusing her, and then sold her to others to do with as they wished. If he was involved, He definitely wanted the clout and $ of having that footage. He was very big into the online pedo rings that highly value such footage. The parents also look suspicious. Truly a mystery.
Truly a mystery
There isn't evidence of him killing someone, but I wouldn't past him as he assaulted many women including an elderly woman and allegedly had sex with his dogs. Considering he's a low life with really no fear of the law I wouldn't say he isn't capable of killing a person. Especially considering Madeleine was only 3 and tiny she couldve been easy to strangle really which is unfortunate to even think about.
> allegedly had sex with his dogs Is he charged with that or just a media accusation? I recall they said the same thing about Murrat then it all disappeared into the eather as all the eyewitnesses took back their statements simultaneously.
It must be a media accusation to stir up drama cause when I first heard about it I tried searching for something related about that to him. I did read about him abusing a friends 4 year old daughter though.
It really is 50/50 isn't it? let's look at the possibilities: 1) She's dead. The question is then where's the body, who, why, where, when? There's really only 2 possibilities of who, the parents or a random unknown third party. If it was one or both parent/s, why? Either deliberate , hard to believe given no other red flags that I'm aware of or accidentally. One common theory is a light sedative was given so parents could have a night out , knowing kids wouldn't stir; If that's the case and it went wrong, would they really be able to cover it up for so long , with all the guilt and remorse for either one or both of them to carry around? Again, if it was a tragic accident by parent/s from otherwise loving family, are they really just going to carelessly un-ceromonously toss her corpse somewhere; or are they more likely to want to bury her & lay her to rest , which would take time to plan, find location, prepare the location, move the body to the location, etc possibly have to hide the body until can move to site. *increase risk of being caught and/or evidence leading to discovery of body , so why hasn't it been found? If it's an unknown random person who took and killed her , they wouldn't be as bothered on the method of disposal , could've burnt it, used acid, maybe they're local and know the area more , so certainly be easier for them to dispose of the body recklessly with the main focus of concealment of their crime. Less likely to leave evidence leading to discovery of body and as unknown , no connection less guilt and remorse. 2) she's alive Now let's suppose she's still alive, if she was , this then would obviously rule out the parents. I don't think the parents are "the girl in basement" type again too high profile. If it's an unknown third party again the question is why? What's the motive to keeping her alive? No ransom demands , so either trafficked either to be used as a form of slave but she was only 3 at the time, rules out domestic servitude, if sex slave either died from injuries and the abuse again given her age at the time, so unlikely if used in videos etc again unless somehow covered up and masked too distinctive and would've been recognised and seen or ; sold on for adoption but be limited due to distinctive features and publicity so she would've spent several years being kept out of sight, which depending on country could be challenging. She's now nearly 20 and whilst only 3 at the time she would've noticed the strange new situation . Ok 8 know the girl kept in the basement for 18 years iirc just accepted the new norm I'm sure daughter of 2 intelligent drs would figure out something is up by now and either would've been seen rescued , escaped or we're back to 1.Along with fact that's odds stacked against her still being alive over the amount of time passed so more likely then not , I suspect dead due to third party involvement ...
"*One common theory is a light sedative was given so parents could have a night out , knowing kids wouldn't stir; If that's the case and it went wrong, would they really be able to cover it up for so long , with all the guilt and remorse for either one or both of them to carry around?*" Knowing that if they (both were doctors) had given their children a sedative so that they could go out to eat and drink - it would result in the twins being removed from their care. That's a huge incentive to hide Maddie dying accidentally.
Yes there's a motive and incentive as not only would they lose the twins , they'd also be struck off so have no career and potentially be imprisoned , having said that I do still if it was a genuine "accident" of otherwise morale and upstanding people with good character , (otherwise there be other red flags that just hadn't come to light that I'm aware of) they would've cracked with guilt by now and they would've still have been" respectful " to the body, they wouldn't just dump or hack it, they would take care of it. If 1 parent had administrated the lethal dose they wouldn't be able to keep that to themselves and would involve the other and no doubt one of them wouldn't put there's hand up to protect the other and family and deny that other was involved.... Again if both were involved and complicit they still probably get one to take the hit to allow a proper burial .... so based on balance of normal realms I still can't see it being the parents...I know stats are against it but still
I think Christian had something to do with it, why would he brag to a friend about having taken her? He will likely go to his grave with the truth of what happened 😟
John Mark Karr *bragged to a journalist* that he raped and killed JonBenet Ramsey. Pedophiles are freaks. Assuming the jailhouse snitch is being honest.
After reading this, it got me thinking what if Maddy wasn't even in the room the whole time everyone was checking in on the kids ? If you think about it this way then the parents all the time in the world to clean up and dispose of Maddy 😔
I don't believe that unless they wanted someone else to discover Madeleine being gone. I think she was in the room and got taken right after Matthew's "check"
Yes. This is a very good point that gets overlooked a lot.
If a pedophile took her, he's not going to keep her alive. Gerry kept saying bizarre things like how outrageous it was the police believed she was dead or even came to harm. If abducted she's being horribly raped at the least. IDK that line always bothered me.
I think she’s dead given the arrest and what the German police have discovered but aren’t telling us. Her parents share some blame here because who the fuck would leave their child alone like that.
She is dead. No doubt about it.
There have been cases of young girls being kidnapped and escaping decades later so idk why people are adamant she’s passed
Because it’s the most high profile abduction of all time. And whilst there is a slim chance she is still alive, it’s gotta be less than 0.01%
I think she most definitely is dead, sadly, and was killed not long after the abduction.
I believe she has been dead since the day she disappeared. I don't know why or how, but she has been gone for a long time.
I wish I remembered the name but there are some (I thought at the time) pretty good but super long YouTube videos by a guy about why he thinks the parents did it. The timeline IS wrong according to him, according to him she died a full day before she was reported missing I wish I could remember the guy or video titles but it might come up if you search. The videos are like hour+ long each and go pretty deep into his theories which are decently backed up with stuff. Idk about how backed up the timeline theory is tho
Both Schroedinger's McCann
It iis still possible Madeleine is alive look at Jaycee Duggard she was missing for 18 years
The parents are VERY WEIRD people. First that story about the dad and his guy friend making inappropriate comments about little Maddie, the friend is so suspicious, I think the one who went to check on the kids or another? It's been too long since I've watched the documentary, but I know it's the one who helped make the documentary. Also, they left everything unlocked. Unlocked! Open windows!? Were they hoping someone would kidnap the kids? So reckless! How can a parent do something like that? One's child is the most precious thing they have! Would they leave a million dollars in the apartment with the windows open???? Yes she could have been taken as well. If she was... There's a reason they think she's dead. So sad... It's my parents'fault, no matter what happened! Edit: I remember after reading another comment, she may as well have died in the apartment, those parents, SUSPICIOUS and WEIRD, have I said that before?
People’s ideas of child trafficking is so out of wack with the reality. Sadly, there are many abused and neglected kids, children of alcoholics, drug addicts, living on the street, etc., for traffickers to get virtually voluntarily from their parents. They are not risking whatever they have going by kidnapping cute, blonde children of middle or upper middle class tourists. And if they did do such a thing without realizing who they were taking, they are getting rid of (as in, killing, or just dropping off somewhere) fast.
Bit of a silly question tbh
Might be silly but sometimes i wonder, since in other cases girls have turned up.
The parents left from the house at around 6 o clock in the morning ALONE "to search for her", if you want answers on how they did it you have to mail them and ask them
I think someone in their friends group knows
I don't think so. I think if an accident happened I believe Kate and Gerry wouldn't risk telling their friend considering how incredibly horrific it was.
Dead, parents offed her and made millions off it
I think she is alive and well.
Hm. So why are they treating her as a missing person? She’d be an adult by now. If she is “well” why is the whole investigation ongoing?
jmo: * it's about the pedophile ring * *there are different kinds: some low-level, some high-level. One that would order the abduction of a British child would likely be high-level.* * C.B. was paid to steal her. He's a reckless criminal. He is not one of them, but they use him for things no sane person would try. The media attention forced them to change their plan. * someone found an old german couple to take her * C.B. thinks she died, from sickness, while in Morocco (or wherever he thinks they were hiding her). *That's why he is so confident although they keep accusing him of having killer her. He assumes this means they don't have anything.* * the authorities are slowly untangling the criminal enterprise (pedophiles, once apprehended, usually tell on their friends or end themselves). *Some in that business are not into kids, but they are into money.* There have been some big busts over the past few years: [Germany busts international child pornography ring with 400,000 members - National | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/7829680/germany-child-pornography-ring-darkweb-boystown/) * if the authorities accuse him enough times of killing her, he would, hopefully, reply, "I didn't kill her, but I stole her" * problem is he likes high-risk, so it's not easy to get him to confess. Plus, there's Inga Gehricke and figuring out what happened to her. I hope she is still alive, but sadly, on her page on Missing Persons Wiki, it indicates "suspected homicide". [Inga Gehricke | International Missing Persons Wiki | Fandom](https://int-missing.fandom.com/wiki/Inga_Gehricke)
The German police told the media that they have evidence that Maddie is dead - but never provided any evidence to support this claim. How could providing evidence that Maddie is dead, possibly hurt a case against CB? As the German police **were happy to tell the media** they had proof that CB was responsible for Maddie's death and that Maddie is dead - and yet still haven't charged him or provided any evidence to back up the claims they made **TO THE MEDIA!..**.... I take their media statements with a pinch of salt.
Obviously, they have a strategy (whether we like that strategy or not). *This* ***might*** *be a master class in doing whatever it is they are trying to do.* In June of 2020 (when they first announced C.B. is the suspect), they were genuinely concerned he would be freed and they would lose him again (which might explain their approach). If a pedophile ring is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, that same ring might ensure C.B. stays hidden and unfindable or no longer exists, in which case they lose the strand they are hoping to pull to reveal this atrocious enterprise. Notice the scarcity of articles linking C.B. to the Boytown bust (2021) - [Suspects in global paedo ring linked to Madeleine McCann ‘kidnapper’ Christian B go on trial in Germany | The Sun](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18160631/suspects-paedo-ring-madeleine-mccann-kidnapper-trial/)
Even if all that were true I'd still argue with you about the word "well" having been through kidnapping, human trafficking, and the hands of various pedophiles.
In that line of speculation, she wasn't harmed by pedophiles. The police could show up any day, why would they risk it? Once they've stolen her, they don't kill her for the same reason. Find some gullible old people, tell them you'll kill them and her if they don't stay quiet, then they raise her.
If pedophiles stole a child why would they not harm them? Kidnapping a child is "risky" and a crime already. Do you think they really took her then decided to abandon the mission? If an old couple raised her I'm shed figure out who she was especially since she would look noting like the people raising her.
They have to confirm she is. She could write a notice to the investigators saying she's well but they have to confirm because it could be a kidnapper who wrote that pretending to be her. Even if she was well which I doubt, she's still technically missing as well as the case needing to be ended. I do doubt she's "alive and well" though
Well yes but in what world would an “alive and well” Madeleine allow the investigation to continue without contacting some sort of authority to say as much. Even if she doesn’t want to be with her parents, or speak publicly etc.
Im confused. What are you saying?
I’m saying that if she were alive and well *she* would confirm so, by contacting police.
Yes but the police would still need to confirm its her, she would have to show up in person and talk to the police and investigators and take a DNA test. We all know what happened with the Julia Wendell situation lol. Also if it was Madeleine confirmed with DNA and such it wouldn't entirely close the case as they would need to prosecute whoever snatched her/raised her cause if she was sold to a childless couple they are technically apart of human trafficking and kidnapping even if she wasn't harmed and nobody laid a finger on her.
Ok but none of that is happening . So my point stands
So are u saying the case should be closed since we cant find her?
No… but saying that she’s likely to be “alive and well” is quite a stretch. I don’t believe that’s the real motivation to solve the case at this point. Sad to say it.
WELL??? If she's alive she's been raped and tortured and traumatized and hidden in a basement or something. She's certainly not well.
That's your speculation. I never mentioned that. If that had happened, no amount of fear that her adopted parents would be harmed would be sufficient to keep her from contacting the authorities. If the people who raised her were good to her and kind and loving, I can understand why she wouldn't contact the authorities.
A pedo taking her and trying to give her away is too risky. I highly doubt someone took her and then after the case got widespread and into the media decided "Hey let me try selling this kid to a couple so she's not in my hands anymore" that would practically be telling on yourself. I dont think a couple would want a child anyway thats face is all over the world.
Let's say there was a person whose job it was to move the children through the respective countries (possibly an adult who had been a victim of one of these rings). Usually, it would be a quick process. In this case it wasn't, due to the media attention. They had to hold her in spots. Normally, they lie to the kid then move them swiftly. In this case, she had to ensure Madeleine was well enough and alive, just in case they got caught. *They can always lie and say they are selling the child for adoption (not for abuse).* In the interim, the McCanns are bombarding the airwaves with photos and stories of this much loved child. Also, in the interim, Madeleine does not complain, but looks exceptionally sad. She stands out because she is so fair. When she is in Morocco, people notice her due to her fair-ness. In Mauritania, they notice her due to her sadness. What to do? What to do? If you get caught, you don't want to be charged with murder, let alone this child who is now the interest of the world. You hope her parents will give up, but instead they seem to get more organized, more focused, more fierce. The world attacks them, yet they beat on. Maybe you know someone. Someone with money. Someone whose lifestyle could allow this child to be educated and grow, yet not out in the open. Maybe rich old germans with Philippine servants, who don't/won't ask many questions. You bring over this beautiful child who is thrilled to see and use their pool. This elderly, childless couple adores the happy little mermaid who splashes and giggles. They are told she is unwanted. They take her on without realizing. Once they are attached, they are told she will be killed if they notify anyone... We, obviously, know there are old rich Nazis (not saying they are involved), just that people can exist under the radar, yet thrive. Once she's old enough to realize, she knows that if they find her, it will ruin her adoptive parents, so she stays mum. Just a theory...
That's quiet unlikely but not an impossible theory considering its been 17 years and a body or even a hint of remains hasn't popped up. I mean i'd rather this be the outcome and her coming forward eventually then her accidentally dying in 5A or being abducted and going through god knows what with a pedophile and being killed.
I agree. It is beyond unlikely.
Pedestal brothers
What the hell has it to do with anyone except the police , the family and the perpetrator(s) ?
I can see.why Madeline's parents don't go on social media.Do you not think they have suffered enough?
Umm yeah i can see why they wouldnt too. This is a place to discuss the case, doubts, theories or questions, no?
I have a theory ! She was kidnapped by someone involved in trafficking. Then she was sold and probably has a different name now and doesn’t remember anything now since she was just a baby when she was kidnapped.
That could have happened, maybe they altered her features (Dyed her hair, possibly illegal surgery, taught her a different language, etc)
This is something ive considered. There have been cases of kids found years and years later, that escaped somehow or were recognized. Ive honestly considered both things, shes dead and at peace or is in a horrible situation.
If the hypothesis that she's still alive is correct, then it's highly likely she will speak a different language to English. But then that makes it far less likely that she will come forward of her own accord, because she won't be able to understand news articles and social media content about the case (which are mostly written either in English or Portuguese) and put two and two together. I remember playing the UK edition of Cards Against Humanity at university once, which does include a Madeleine McCann item card, and although I used it to absolutely trump the round, 75% of the other players (mostly Italians and Japanese) had never heard the name before. It's a misconception to say that this case is known even Europe-wide, let alone worldwide, it's not.