Have you read the actual Intuitive Eating book/tried doing the workbook along with it/working through it with a professional?
You are not stupid. This is lifelong messaging and conditioning that you are working to undo. It takes time and everyone’s journey looks different. I cycled between binging and restricting. I worked with a therapist both in individual sessions and in group therapy. It has taken a lot of time and it isn’t perfect and never will be.
A note for intuitive eating, you won’t succeed at it, or you’ll struggle a lot if you don’t have a goal in mind. When we restrict consistently we really don’t listen to body cues. It’s not as simple as just letting yourself eat whatever you want. Because it may be easy to not eat, your body is quick to ignore hungry. So what has helped me a ton recently is to try to eat three times a day consistently, but still eat what i like. By success I mean how much it helps you, not necessarily curing the ED. Just keep that in mind if you have an interest in intuitive eating.
My daughter has an ED and the hospital was pretty adamant about avoiding intuitive eating and sticking to the FBT model. (Granted, this is just anecdotal and you feel free to take what you want from it.) The hospital looked at the ED more as a form of OCD. It was interesting!
This is absolutely essential when people have a restrictive ED. You have to go trhough adequacy, so eating on a schedule and to minimum amounts, before you can get to intuitive eating. Most people who have a restrictive ED will never eat intuitively.
My ED was never really about body image, it always felt like my hygiene OCD moved on to food, but with the bonus of moralizing and feeling guilty about my choices lol
Oh dear, I hear you. My kiddo is more afraid of throwing up and has strange ideas about “safe” food and unsafe food. Basically you have to force yourself to eat through the discomfort. And eat the ED before it eats you.
Makes sense, and same here. I didn’t learn this till a little over a year ago, and I started officially recovering from my ED in 2020! Goes to show we’re all learning, and we make mistakes but it really is always a step forward no matter what.
Everyone knows Instagram is toxic, but my feed just has pages and suggestions are all about anti-diet and intuitive eating professionals, haha. I've actually learned quite a bit from these
I second this. I’ve been working intuitive eating for almost 2 years now and it’s extremely freeing but also a ton of work and not a quick fix. I know I’ve made progress but keep running into more blocks to work through with my therapist.
The one think I will add for OP is that IE can include mechanical eating at first. When you have been in an ED for so long, your hunger signals aren’t telling you the truth. If you just wait to “feel hungry” and eat what sounds good, you may struggle to eat. It will get better but it isn’t against IE to eat when the clock tells you even if you don’t feel it at the moment.
My daughter is in treatment for an ED. It’s been going on for three years now, this is our fourth treatment program. It’s tough and will take time. I started listening to MP to try to understand more about the diet culture that she’s soaking in because it doesn’t really come at me the same way. I’m a cis white male and I just assumed this stuff didn’t apply to me, but I’m seeing a lot of my own internal fat phobia that I assumed was just being the jolly fat man.
Listening to MP and learning about diet culture, I was surprised to realize how much of my beliefs about moralizing food and exercise choices came from my (cis white) dad… not my mom, who had an actual eating disorder and exercise addiction (she’s doing much better now!)
This was me. It took me years. I took breaks from my RD and therapy because I felt "stuck", exactly like you said. I even said "stuck" in sessions a lot. I logically understood, but mentally couldn't believe for myself.
But, after changing my social media to unfollow/follow certain accounts, having open conversations with friends, buying myself new clothes, and just letting myself exist in a space that wasn't focused on "fixing" myself but supporting every day life - it clicked. But again, it took time.
I'm not sure what your journey will look like, but hang in there. I'm wishing you peace 🕊️
Thank you! I'm currently on a "break" right now. They were telling me to stop measuring food, even small parts at a time, changes to my regular diet, and I just couldn't (wouldn't?) do it. Hopefully it will click for me :/
Working with a professional around ED was.the only way that I began to see impactful change.
They helped me troubleshoot behaviours and shift my mindset around food. It took time and regular contact though and it definitely had plenty of regressions during that time.
The person I worked with was a non diet dietician who was trauma informed which was what I needed.
We explored beliefs around foods and behaviours that got in the way of eating.
She gave me different language and a way of framing the components of a meal so that deciding on what to eat wasn't so stressful.
We explored textures and sensations around food and what I enjoyed so I could aim for food that was pleasurable.
She would help me troubleshoot when issues came up and help create plans to overcome them.
There was so much that we did together that just slowly began to help shift the way that I engaged with food.
Right there with you. I hear the logic, but it is like yes, that science applies to everyone in the world…except me. And I am not the exception because I am special and wonderful. I am the exception because I am so fundamentally flawed I need to hold myself to a higher standard, just so I can come out as “sort of” human. Dunno if that makes sense or not.
But yeah. Stuck and feeling like I can’t change because change will make things worse instead of better.
I’m not a therapist or doctor of any kind, so don’t read too much into my opinion.
Are you unable to enjoy food and just feel your body reacting to it? Can you eat a piece of chicken and try to notice, without any judgement whatsoever, how it makes you feel full and how it takes away the hunger pangs?
Can you feel hunger pangs?
I found what helped me was to try to do this observation exercise with different foods. I saw how bread alone ended the hunger pangs just like the chicken did, but it didn’t last as long. I repeated the experiment with all my favorite foods, so that I can mentally gauge when I’m likely to want to eat again. So I might take an extra few bites of chicken if I know it’s going to be a while before we get to eat again.
One of my favorite exercises is journaling while slow eating a favorite food. Take a single bite of your favorite meal, and let it sit in your mouth for a second before chewing. Fully taste it with every part of your tongue. Evaluate the texture. Does this flavor have subtle notes you didn’t notice before? Do any emotions come up while you savor it?
I’m not kidding when I saw I started crying over a bowl of ice cream doing this because I was so overwhelmed with love and nostalgia because it reminded me of a beloved childhood memory.
Hope any of these help! Good luck on your journey.
I love food and eating, lol. I think my problem is still feeling like I have to "earn" it. And I hate having to rush eating but I do lots of the time because I'm a teacher. I have absolutely no hunger cues and never feel hungry, so I often detest having to eat because I feel like I"m just stuffing myself with food when I'm not hungry but just because I have to eat before work or it's my lunch time and I have to eat x calories
You don't feel "hunger" but I bet you do, you just call it something else. I don't have an eating disorder but I do have ADHD which can also cause me to ignore or not notice hunger cues until they become extreme, so I have to pay attention to the consequences of hunger and remind myself that's what I will feel like if I don't eat on time.
When you haven't eaten lunch, and a few hours go by, do you feel:
-tired/sluggish?
-randomly sad?
-randomly angry/irritable?
-dizzy?
-physically weak?
-nauseous?
-headache?
-difficulty focusing?
-feeling "slow" or like you aren't able to think as well as normal?
All of this is hunger or a consequence of hunger, hunger isn't necessarily one specific feeling of wanting food.
I feel you on the rushed eating thing too. I'm a naturally super slow eater, when I was in elementary/middle/high school I could never finish my lunch in the time available. I think partially as a result of so many years of unnaturally small meals bc of the time constraints, it's really difficult now for me to eat a large meal in one sitting. And because I tend to not notice hunger until it's too late, I am constantly swinging between eating a small meal or snack, feeling full, and then a few hours later being absolutely incapacitated because I haven't eaten enough to sustain myself. Something I am trying to work on is remind myself to eat snacks in between meals on a regular basis, so I never need to eat a whole lot at once and I can still eat enough throughout the day. Things like protein shakes, seasoned almonds, etc, things that are easy to eat and don't take a lot of effort/can be eaten while I'm working or doing other things.
I also wonder, and this is just a guess because it happens to me, I apologize for doing armchair psychology on you, but is your focus on gaining weight kind of counter-productive? It seems like maybe you've just shifted the obsession with controlling your food from trying to restrict to trying to gain weight. I also have always been pretty much on the borderline of "underweight", but really what does "underweight" mean? If we accept that someone can be "overweight" and that isn't actually problematic, can't we say the same thing for being "underweight"? Obviously there are certain health risks that come with being extremely underweight, but I personally sometimes have to remind myself that I don't really need to gain weight, because the pressure of trying to eat bigger meals and put on muscle can actually booomerang around and make it harder for me to eat instead of being motivating. It's when I'm relaxed and not really thinking about how much I'm eating that I find myself being able to eat and enjoy full meals.
Your focus on not allowing yourself to do certain types of exercise because you want to gain weight also feels like maybe it's not helping, unless a doctor has told you to do this. I am the most hungry and can eat the most after I've had an intense workout like skateboarding for a couple hours or lifting weights. It seems like you are arbitrarily not allowing yourself to do certain activities, maybe as some kind of punishment or because you feel like you have to gain a certain amount of weight before you can move on. That doesn't sound super helpful to me.
I have ADHD and crap interoception and I was literally in my 30s when I learned that hunger could manifest as anything other than "omg my stomach hurts and feels achy and I'm so shaky and feel like I want to murder someone right now" (I am this hungry maybe once a year)
Slow eater- ME TOO!!!! One time in Elementary school my friend rang the teacher's bell to announce to everyone when I finished lunch first. Lol. I haven't remembered that in ages.
I think it's also my ADHD but I HATE snacking. It's so annoying and hard to stop what I'm doing and do something else as it is, right now I am wiggling in my chair because I need to go to the bathroom and I've been meaning to put my laundry in the dryer for like 30 minutes
It stinks because I look probably too thin but not like scary thin... and I feel fine... but I have a heart arrhythmia and no period, so, my doctors agree those are signs I need to be at a heavier weight. Sometimes I wonder if I was a man who didn't menstruate if I would even know I was underweight... I am really torn about this though because I've been told my doctors not to do cardio, but running is my absolute favorite exercise, makes me feel on top of the world, and makes me hungry like NOTHING else. Like bottomless pit hungry lol. In the past I had success gaining weight by running every day and eating a ton but that's too much stress on my heart I guess and bad for hormones...
Ah. I had to do something about that lack of time and those times when my hunger annoys me because I don’t want to stop what I’m doing g to eat.
I keep hummus and veggies and whole grain crackers, peanut butter and whole grain toast, deli meat salads with cheese and ranch dressing, lots of roasted and salted nuts, hard boiled eggs, cheese sticks, and some chicken salad on hand for when I need to eat to end the hunger cues, but I don’t want to sit down and savor my food.
These are all things I like, although none of them are my absolute favorite. I do know that I could use more fiber and vegetables in my diet, and all these things contain protein so they can carry me over into a meal I’m actually looking forward to.
I hate the idea of meal prep, but I just realized I kind of do that.
I did and it took years. It was a series of small revelations over time - it definitely didn't happen all at once. I basically would hit rock bottom with one thing, and then be forced to let it go, and then another habit, and then another habit. But the real progress didn't happen until I got to the food. Really, it started in earnest with the food. Don't bother trying to change your mind when you are under-nourished. It will just leave you stuck forever. The food - ENOUGH food - more than you will ever be comfortable with - HAS to come first. I truly believe this is the non-negotiable. The mind followed (is following? it's going to be a work in progress for the rest of my life probably) afterward. And you are not stupid. This is just an incredibly hard thing to deconstruct.
Disclaimer: I'm not any kind of doctor or medical professional, just a girl who went from having a fucked-up relationship with food to a not-so-fucked up relationship with food. Consult with your medical providers of course as always.
Thank you. I get this message from r/fuckeatingdisorders a lot, too. For some reason I can cheer other people on on that page, but eat as much as I want myself? nah. :/
Hey there, I really feel for you. As someone who's also dealt with an ED, I totally get how frustrating it can be when your mind and actions aren't lining up. It's awesome that you've internalized so much of the anti-diet culture message from Maintenance Phase – that's huge progress! But yeah, changing those deeply ingrained habits is a whole other battle. It's like our brains are on board, but our bodies (brains too somehow?) are still stuck in those old patterns. I've definitely found that the cliche that recovery isn't linear is true, and it takes time for our behaviors to catch up with our new beliefs. Maybe try focusing on one small change at a time? Like allowing yourself to be 5 minutes "late" on your walk occasionally. I don't know, I'm kind of in the same boat to some extent so I don't have any good advice. Hang in there, okay? The fact that you're questioning these behaviors and want to change is a big deal. You've already come so far, and even if it doesn't feel like it, you're making progress. Be kind to yourself – you're doing the best you can with a really tough situation.
Yeah, I definitely relate! I’ve been dealing with AN for 16 years and have been in different states of recovery (with varying success) for the past 2-3.
For me, I’ve had to learn to accept that progress is halting and messy and slow and sometimes so small that it seems invisible. I’ve relapsed hard. I’ve gone months and years believing it will
never get better. It always does.
Re: MP, I relate to being SO on board with everything intellectually and then suffering from this massive disconnect when it comes to, like, literally feeling unable to stop measuring my granola or counting my steps. That’s where I’ll remind us both about neural wiring — these behavior patterns feel intractable because, neurologically, they’re well-worn paths in our brains, you know? (Tabitha Farrar is a good resource there.)
I’m well into my recovery now and it’s deeply imperfect but I got here and it’s possible. There’s a lot more I could say about this if you ever want to continue the conversation, but you’re not alone 💛
I love Tabitha Farrar! How can I get her to be more in my brain, lol. The rewiring part is the hardest. I've even done psilocybin which has actually been far more helpful than therapy in some ways but I can feel my neural pathways trying to go right back to their usual grooves soon after, despite the mental perspective shift. It stinks. What worked for you with rewiring your brain?
Oh man, I’m really curious about your psilocybin experience! THC was kind of helpful for me for a second but I never really experimented with anything else.
As far as rewiring goes…it’s been painstakingly slow, tbh. I have gone “all in” at various times: I went to residential treatment in 2018, and more recently tried all in to get my period back in 2023 after a relapse. Both times I was honestly too exhausted to do the slow, tiny changes thing. Both times I noticed the old behaviors slowly snap back into place after enough time had passed.
That being said, I think both experiences were critical for me — they showed me I COULD live differently, that I was capable of it. (They also helped for quick weight restoration in a supportive environment.) Now, even though I find myself repeating a lot of old behaviors I thought I’d gotten rid of, I can see them more clearly and with a nourished brain, and I have the mental/emotional space to try to work on them slowly and incrementally again, without quite as much panic and distress as I felt when I was at rock
bottom.
Tl;dr: I’ve never been one of those people for whom recovery just *clicked* and I never looked back. It’s always been five steps forward, seven steps back, eight steps forward, seven steps back, seven point five steps forward…the metaphor is messy but you get the idea lol. The absolute biggest thing for me has been releasing the shame I feel around this, accepting that it’s f*cking hard, and continuing to show up for myself again and again in whatever way feels possible at any given time.
Psilocybin is amazing. It's like turning your brain into a snow globe and shaking it up, haha. There's so much burgeoning research now showing that psilocybin actually has lasting effects on rewiring your brain, it creates neuroplasticity during the dose and even for a time afterwards. It makes it ideal to use in conjunction with therapy work when you feel stuck. \\
Dang maybe it's time for me to do another trip, it's been awhile. Lol
Kind of scary how easy it is to get back into old set habits... eating disorders seem harder to beat the longer you have them. Your experience is/will be just like mine. It's probably just the way our brains are wired.
Yes, show up for ourselves again and again... thank you!
i'm in semi recovery for my restrictive eating disorder. physically, i am no longer starving myself. mentally, i still have ED brain. it's getting better though.
things that helped me
- no longer weighing myself.
- no longer telling myself i need to be a certain weight to wear something, do something, go outside etc. or even eat something. when you do these things without restricting yourself, you will find them more enjoyable. such as people with EDs, they may fall into bingeing if they starve themselves. but if you allow yourself to have food with no limitations, people will become less inclined to binge on something that's always accessible to them. not that i think this is applicable to you, just that mindset is important.
- don't want to put any numbers here but it takes a significant amount of calories for most people to put on 1kg/2.2lbs. also factor in maintenance calories. these days, when i feel like i eat a lot more than when i did during my restrictive cycles, i realise i won't actually be putting on any weight. i'll just be maintaining.
- during the worst of my ED, my cognitive abilities rapidly declined. the brain fog. the irritability. the lack of focus. i was a shell of a person. there's a minimum amount of calories that your brain requires to function. i told myself i need to eat at least that much and i've been eating more than that too.
- i feel better, my life is more well rounded, i can actually focus and do things. i'm no longer as angry at the world and my moods are better. in your post, you mentioned that you know you would get these benefits. it is important to just allow yourself to become better. i used to allow myself to be trapped but i realised that being someone who is completely controlled by their ED, having no friends because of their ED, afraid of going outside because of their ED, always dressing myself in sloppy, oversized clothing because of my ED - was frankly not representative of myself as a person. progress takes place outside the comfort zone. it was scary for me to no longer let my ED control my life but when it finally happened, i realise it is not that bad. it's not scary at all. i'm just living my life now without constantly feeling like i will pass out, become cognitively impaired, or die.
I 100% recognise the feeling of frustration that you can understand cognitively but cant change the behaviour- at some point the only thing that helps is someone forcing you to eat the food. I really recommend an outpatient program that will physically prevent you from using the behaviours and make you eat full portions.
I've been tempted to do this... it would be so hard with work though. Plus most outpatient clinics now you have to bring your own food, which kind of defeats the point.
Yes but the food you bring will have to be adequate to their guidelines. And with most programs as you continue you will be able to work with the dietician and therapist on cooking or preparing food there to avoid measuring. Plus they usually have 1 or two events a week where you order out or they provide food.
My dietitian has brought to my attention there are intensive outpatient programs you can do online. I had no idea such a program existed. I also have no idea how helpful it would be or even what it really looks like. She suggested a program from Renfrew, but I did see there are several different treatment centers that have versions of this. Maybe this is something to look at and see if it sounds like an option for you?
There is a huge difference between logically knowing that something is true, especially when applied to other people, and being able to feel like it is true when applied to ourselves. Unlearning stuff like this is really not as simple as just educating yourself, unfortunately. I think it takes a lot of therapy and time and effort.
Absolutely. I’m on the same page as you. 100% agree on the philosophy…anti-diet dietician by my side…love MP…read all the books. But I can’t “let go” of many of my mannerisms.
I’ve never been clinically underweight even when I was restricting the most and lost my period. The whole societal expectation of “you’re not REALLY sick unless you’re underweight” has kind of continued to fuel the fire of my rigidity I think. Even though cognitively I understand that statement is untrue.
PS: I’m not laughing at you but with you because I am also the person that will be 10 minutes late… because I have to do the exercise minutes/burn the calories, too. It’s sad but I have to laugh so I don’t cry.
Why are you in my head??
I feel every line you typed out. I know it isn’t exactly adding much to the conversation by saying that. But I have been feeling so stuck and so frustrated with myself. Like I am watching myself sabotage everything I don’t want to ruin, but I have no power OR will to stop it. But, it didn’t start that way, with no power or will - I did have that. But every word in my head screams out how wrong any information is that is meant to counteract the eating disorder.
I don’t look like a media portrayal of anorexia. I am not underweight.. I am not an athlete or in my teens or 20’s. I am woman in her 40’s that thought this shit would be over by now.
Past tense, it took a long time with lots of stuck points and setbacks. When you’ve memorized calorie counts and measurements and such it can take a while to get to a place where that knowledge becomes irrelevant enough to be meaningless in the moment. Part of what made the work hard for me is that it requires a gentleness, compassion, and flexibility with yourself that is very much at odds with what an ED demands (exacting rules and a taste for punishment), AND all of the ups and downs that came with my body changing (praise for thinness, either silence or outright “I’m worried about you” commentary from family who preferred me thin and equate starving and compulsive exercise with health). I still have days when I feel frustrated with or critical of my body but the difference now is that it feels more like something my brain offers me as a “solution” when I am stressed rather than something real. I can make some space for it and carry on with my life.
It is hard AND it is possible. That you are on board with anti-diet messaging and have been dismantling biases around food and body and health is already a huge step (and a requirement for everything that comes after; you need to have a “why” if you’re going to do hard things!) Cheering you on. ♥️
Hi there - you’re not alone. I’m 38F and have struggled with this exact thing since adolescence. Thanks USA Gymnastics. As I’ve aged it is more intrusive thoughts about restrictive eating and I do still feel compulsion to exercise but I am much more kind to myself nowadays, and I can recognize the harmful thoughts and reroute them.
Things that have helped me - consuming content like MP (I don’t get on instagram anymore because it was all body checking / workout content for me despite the effort to change my algorithm), having an athlete partner who understands the psychology and can support me. Lots and lots of therapy, specifically EMDR. A primary care provider who I see regularly that talks openly with me about these things. This shit is so deeply wired in our brains, it takes considerable work to change those thought patterns, which will over time cause you to be less rigid. Keep working on it!
Look for podcast episodes by Christy Harrison! Food Psych is her old pod, and better one IMO. You will learn a lot and may get to the point where you want to stop restricting. She talks a lot about the harm that does to people. Good luck.
Have you spoken to someone who can help with the control issues separate from food? For me, disordered eating is one of many maladaptive coping mechanisms. I find they all lessen in severity when I am not stressed or anxious. I have yet to find a therapist who has been helpful but sometimes I just luck into "good days."
I feel this so hard. I've had PCOS since I hit puberty and was always the "too big/too tall" girl, my entire life has just been like...being told I am too fat, too big, too tall, and years of restriction and disordered eating and being denied medical care because I was just "too fat", it's a lot to unlearn. I can have stretches where I'm like, fuck diets! Fuck restriction! Movement because I love it!! My daily routine is full of movement- I do yoga, weights, cycling almost every morning, and run 3-4 times a week, I stretch throughout the day (yay work from home), it's my jam to try new ways of moving, it's been a big part of helping my mental health too.
And then I'll have one outing or party or photograph where I'm the biggest girl in the group, or everyone in the group is on weight loss meds or has had WLS except me and talks about how great it is to never be hungry, or one doctor's appointment where they ask me if I've ever tried exercising and losing weight and I need to do low carb and watch what I eat, and it all unravels into calorie counting and self loathing for the umpteenth time. The logical part of my brain knows it's bullshit, but the rest of my brain just spirals.
Oh OP, you’re not stupid- we’ve all internalised such incredibly toxic messaging about weight and worth.
I don’t know if this will be helpful for anyone except me, but the turning point for me (you don’t say how you identify, but suggestions here are definitely more woman-focused) was separating beauty <> worth. It has taken me years since to start to feel beautiful, but the first step was not feeling like my worth as a human was by how pretty/skinny I could be. Some things that helped me:
- Lindy west’s book Shrill
- reading feminist literature incl Bell Hooks and the Beauty Myth (Naomi wolf has gone of the deep end - but this helped me at the time)
- I really threw myself into work and hobbies - and made myself feel proud/at least say I was proud. And trying to sit with compliments I received in these areas
- being a good friend and family member
- mantras as a way to break up “bad thoughts “
- playlists w female rage lol (I now play Jax’s Victoria secret on repeat)
- not-ED focused therapy
- stopping food diaries/weighing - I threw out my scales for cooking and body
- buying clothes I thought were cool rather than flattering
- asking friends and family not to comment on my appearance
I still have minor relapses but I am truly a different person now. It took years to get where I am but I mostly feel valuable and beautiful
This is kind of an outside the box suggestion, but if you’re struggling to get past not weighing your food, or mentally estimating calories as you prepare it, maybe consider doing prepared meals for a bit, so you don’t have the opportunity to do that, and can get used to what it feels like to live your life with like an adequate energy supply?
Also, don’t deny yourself the opportunity to lift the big weights, it will likely increase your appetite and make it easier to get through eating the food, and will give you goals to work towards in the gym that aren’t about how many calories you burn or how much you weigh.
I am in a very similar situation to you - historically a more severe restrictive ED that has always manifested in being underweight, and I have harm reduced to a much better but still underweight (in both the 'my body' sense and the stupid bmi sense) and kind of gotten stuck there. Nobody comments on my body with concern they way they would when I was a teenager and first got sick either. It's like this is just who they think I am now.
IMO the thing about eating disorders is that they're not, at their root, about diet culture. Diet culture is why like 70 % of American women have messed up relationships with foods, and that's who the MP mentality can probably help. But once you've had anorexia for 10 years there's a lot else going on and this podcast/mentality really is not targeted to you I don't think.
I do think that diet culture definitely influences how EDs present. For ex, I know instagram is what made me so obsessed w/ protein! I was influenced even though rationally I know it's pretty silly! However, I really dislike the narrative that diet culture is the only or main cause of most EDs. I think there are also very strong emotional/identity and biological/physiological components driving things.
I think that's why for me at least it's very easy to rationally want to gain weight, rationally see through diet culture (in fact ED treatment is sort of bootcamp in seeing through it...), enjoy listening to MP and yet not on an emotional or physical level be able to follow through to the extent I'd need to.
When you've had a chronic ED long enough it's not so simple to say F it and just eat more and love/even tolerate your body and etc. You're not stupid, you just have a mental illness.
The last 2 things I'll add (and maybe you can relate to them??) is that:
1) during my ED I have tended to hyper-focus on food related topics. And one of those is intuitive eating. If I'm entirely honest with myself, listening to MP is \*part\* of my eating disorder in the same way obsessing over restaurant menus for places I'll never eat at is
2) FWIW (and maybe I will get downvoted for this so pls don't take as advice to follow my path exactly of something) I decided at some point to stop listening to doctors who told me not to exercise - specifically, strength training. They were right that it makes it harder calorically to gain weight and if the goal is to get to a healthy weight as fast as possible, cardio etc is counterproductive. But eventually I decided that since I wasn't getting there very fast regardless, I was going to stop putting my life on hold. It's a dialectic: my relationship with exercise now is kinda compulsive, but it also brings me joy and has improved my relationship with food. It also REALLY helped the misc walking/movement compulsions I'd had before (stuff like missing the bus because I couldn't bare to weight and always tried to walk to the next stop, unloading dishes in as many steps as possible) to just explicitly follow an exercise program. EDs are on a continuum and exercising has helped me to get to a better place on that continuum even if "full recovery" evades me. Doctors don't know everything esp about EDs. For me, they were wrong about exercise. I have never felt worse physically, deteriorated faster, or been more consumed by my ED than during periods where I was sedentary. You just need to be really strict + honest with yourself about not exceeding certain limits.
Hi! I am in recovery from anorexia and also spent a considerable portion of my life underweight. I am no longer underweight but because of hypermetabolism (from fluctuating from my recovery weight too much while I spent a few months homeless and currently being food insecure & on EBT) I am no longer at my recovery weight. Anyways, I would definitely seek out an ED dietician. I saw one for years. If you can’t afford one or your insurance won’t cover one, yes, resources about intuitive eating.
I actually had to be in inpatient and residential treatment more than once, and while there and in my initial phases of recovery, I began unlearning a lot of this stuff on here, it’s an amazing secret lil resource for both ED recovery and anti-weight stigma: [heavyweightheart.tumblr.com](https://heavyweightheart.tumblr.com)
This may be barking up the wrong tree entirely, but commenting here as someone with no history of disordered eating, but definite OCD tendencies...have you ever looked into/discussed the possibility of OCD with a professional? The behaviour of walking an extra ten minutes because you 'have to' burn the calories rings really familiar to me.
Oh wow yeah, spot on then. I wonder if working with someone who's versed in OCD (I know medication helps for some) in conjunction with a dietician might help?
I had an ED for 20+ years, and while I'm in a place where I'm healthiest I've ever been behavior wise, I'm still pretty strict with what feels safe/doable and what doesn't. It's really hard to take away the messaging we've told our brains. Honestly, though, if I stay where I'm at behavior wise for the rest of my life, I would be happy. I'm not tortured by it anymore. And sometimes accepting the place I'm at is the best I can do. I do have to kind of keep track to be sure I'm not falling into patterns that are harmful to my recovery, and I'm still seeing haes based providers. I've been in recovery for 5-6 years.
Keep making the next right decision for your health, stay the course, op! You've got this. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
Yes to a degree… MP definitely helped my disordered eating, but I do still get a little panicky when I see a bit of extra weight on my belly, which still causes some restrictive eating. It is much better than it was, but I still catch myself being underweight sometimes and needing to put effort into gaining weight again.
You’re not alone. I recovered in my early twenties, fully weight restored, I never loved my body but I accepted it and focused on what it could do, etc. Fully relapsed 6 months ago, and although I absolutely know how bad it is for me, it’s extremely hard to stop losing weight.
It still sucks but finding an outpatient dietician whose approach resonated with me has been the biggest help. It's not just the fact that she isn't fatphobic, it's her flexibility, ability to trust me, and willingness to hold me accountable without freaking out if I fail.
She helps me make tangible goals for myself but doesn't ask me to count exchanges or keep track of what I'm eating. We have a plan to increase my care if my blood work starts coming back restrictey without sending me immediately to the hospital.
It really helps, but it took me a while to find her.
Hey OP, I wonder if your ED is a symptom / manifestation of a different issue? That could be why your ED treatment wasn’t fully successful. There comes a point in cognitive behavioural therapy where you *know* what the “right” behaviours are, but you just can’t adopt them. I think it’s worse for folks who are really self aware. For me, CBT taught me to recognize the issue, taught me a better way, but fell short in the implementation phase. I’ve had way more success with IFS, which I find to be more holistic. Again, that’s my personal experience, and I know lots of people for whom CBT worked wonders.
I’m not sure if you have the resources for it, but if you do, I’d highly recommend it.
BTW, the thing I needed to earn was relaxation. It blew my goddamn mind when I found out I didn’t have to earn it, lol. My fear was being seen as lazy. Lazy was the absolute worst label one could have in my house when I was growing up. I wonder (and please don’t take this as an accusation, it’s more an invitation to gain insight) if maybe the message you got was the worst label one could have and where that came from - besides boasted from everywhere, lol.
Wishing you the best in your recovery x
Oh gosh I've wondered this too!! I'm like, is this a coping mechanism for something else that's the problem? For example, my friend developed an ED when she was in an abusive relationship. She broke up with him, a year later found the person she would then marry. She gained her own self-worth and boom, eating disorder gone. Not saying it's the same for me but I mean maybe something like that...
I do fear that deep down I am a severely lazy person. And everything I do is so that I'm not a loner who sits in my house all day just eating and reading and being on the internet lol
I am not a therapist (though my mom is), and I was also going to suggest seeing a mental health professional about a possible other diagnosis. For example, your description of needing to weigh everything so it’s the “same” but then not knowing “the same as what” sounded potentially like an OCD symptom. Again, not a therapist, not a diagnosis, it could be something else. But I think it’s worth looking into other diagnoses.
wow it's really interesting to me how many people here have said this sounds like OCD perhaps even more than the ED. That's probably spot on. You all are so smart lol
I am not recommending kids to “fix” things. But I am one of five girls and we all got an eating disorder from our mother. She is now 80 and is emaciated and spent our entire young lives measuring our waists and discussing what needed to be fixed at the dinner table. Obviously, ‘twas deeply fucked up.
Anyway, I am the mother of five girls now as well and I will be damned if I break my babies’ brains and spirits and make them hate their perfect, healthy, strong bodies.
So my answer is to fake it till you make it. It’s called acting. I will never let them see me starve myself. They will see me make healthy choices. I will eat. I will not purge. I will allow myself to have treats, because they also should get treats. For me it really is as simple as faking it until you make it. I don’t want to eat this food. But I will pretend that I am normal and not afraid of calories. And then that has kind of come back around to intuitive eating. The make it part of the saying. I never say anything bad about my appearance. I never discuss someone else’s appearance (like an actor or whatever) unless it’s positive. Words matter, both spoken aloud and the ones in your brain.
With an ED, you spent your whole life being mean to yourself. You have said some terrible things in your head. Be nicer to yourself. You are an example to all the little humans in the world whose moms are thundercunts. You are proof that you can recover and thrive. The kids of the world can’t see you, but there is someone on earth that could probably use your example something fierce right now.
I have an easier time “faking it” for others than for myself. And after faking for years and years, I feel like I can say I completed the made it part. I am healthy and on the other side. I believe in you so hard! Hiccups happen, just shake it off and take care of your body and brain.
I totally get this! I'm a teacher, I do Montessori with 3-6 year olds, so I do a lot of the same thing. My teacher persona is super food enlightened lol. Diet culture comes in STRONG right away, so I do some mild parent coaching when they are open but I definitely model a healthy relationship in the way we talk about food and our bodies with the children, even if I'm having trouble myself. I follow some anti-diet for kids blogs like Kids Eat in Color and that has been really helpful.
MP has genuinely saved my life in recovery. I found the pod during my first two weeks of anorexia recovery, through the "trouble with calories" episode, and it's helped me completely reshape my views. Even if a lot of it is stuff I logically knew-- diets don't work, that's why my eating disorder was killing me-- hearing it from real people made it so much easier to untangle my brain. I'm 6.5 months in now, and while I am still struggling, I am a million times happier and healthier than I was a year ago when I was struggling with the worst relapse of my life. I heavily credit MP for helping me find the courage to work through a lot of the eating disorder bullshit in my head.
I agree with the other post's about food specifically but I'd also encourage you to try body-based support like acupuncture, massage, biofeedback. Just be sure to work with a HAES provider. Body-based therapies help with relaxation, nervous system regulation and allow you to be in your body in a positive way.
As a fat person, I had very restrictive eating patterns that were always applauded and cheered on by most people. I’m in recovery and it’s a mindfuck to explain to people that I don’t do diets or diet talk anymore because all the restriction when I was younger highly affected the way I look today.
I’m sorry you’re struggling OP- I hope you find peace in your journey
Mine is ARFID which came on after a combo of health issues. It's brutal. I've also got 50 years of internalized fat hatred. My mother died at 80 of leukemia but she finally made her WW goal! It's sickening. I have lost weight and struggle with malnutrition and electrolytes imbalance. The show helped me as did some of the books you mentioned. It's still a battle and I've worked on it in therapy. I still body check everyone but I now neutralize it. Large person small person old person active person. I don't give it a value judgement.
It's a daily struggle
Have you read the actual Intuitive Eating book/tried doing the workbook along with it/working through it with a professional? You are not stupid. This is lifelong messaging and conditioning that you are working to undo. It takes time and everyone’s journey looks different. I cycled between binging and restricting. I worked with a therapist both in individual sessions and in group therapy. It has taken a lot of time and it isn’t perfect and never will be.
No I haven't! I'll look into it. Thank you
A note for intuitive eating, you won’t succeed at it, or you’ll struggle a lot if you don’t have a goal in mind. When we restrict consistently we really don’t listen to body cues. It’s not as simple as just letting yourself eat whatever you want. Because it may be easy to not eat, your body is quick to ignore hungry. So what has helped me a ton recently is to try to eat three times a day consistently, but still eat what i like. By success I mean how much it helps you, not necessarily curing the ED. Just keep that in mind if you have an interest in intuitive eating.
Thank you! Yeah, I'm still at the stage where I need mostly scheduled eating just to make sure I do eat when I'm not hungry
My daughter has an ED and the hospital was pretty adamant about avoiding intuitive eating and sticking to the FBT model. (Granted, this is just anecdotal and you feel free to take what you want from it.) The hospital looked at the ED more as a form of OCD. It was interesting!
This is absolutely essential when people have a restrictive ED. You have to go trhough adequacy, so eating on a schedule and to minimum amounts, before you can get to intuitive eating. Most people who have a restrictive ED will never eat intuitively.
My ED was never really about body image, it always felt like my hygiene OCD moved on to food, but with the bonus of moralizing and feeling guilty about my choices lol
Oh dear, I hear you. My kiddo is more afraid of throwing up and has strange ideas about “safe” food and unsafe food. Basically you have to force yourself to eat through the discomfort. And eat the ED before it eats you.
I'm sure you already know this but just in case, please look into emetophobia and the often resulting ARFID. Good luck to your kid!
Oh yeah, we are well aware. The doctors weren’t too concerned about the Dx because the treatments are pretty much the same. . . EAT!
Makes sense, and same here. I didn’t learn this till a little over a year ago, and I started officially recovering from my ED in 2020! Goes to show we’re all learning, and we make mistakes but it really is always a step forward no matter what.
Everyone knows Instagram is toxic, but my feed just has pages and suggestions are all about anti-diet and intuitive eating professionals, haha. I've actually learned quite a bit from these
Yooo that’s how it was for me! Learned it from a random instagram post. I have never forgotten it
A friend of mine with an eating disorder said this book really made a difference for her. Best of luck OP, we are rooting for you!
I second this. I’ve been working intuitive eating for almost 2 years now and it’s extremely freeing but also a ton of work and not a quick fix. I know I’ve made progress but keep running into more blocks to work through with my therapist. The one think I will add for OP is that IE can include mechanical eating at first. When you have been in an ED for so long, your hunger signals aren’t telling you the truth. If you just wait to “feel hungry” and eat what sounds good, you may struggle to eat. It will get better but it isn’t against IE to eat when the clock tells you even if you don’t feel it at the moment.
Highly recommend the IE book!
My daughter is in treatment for an ED. It’s been going on for three years now, this is our fourth treatment program. It’s tough and will take time. I started listening to MP to try to understand more about the diet culture that she’s soaking in because it doesn’t really come at me the same way. I’m a cis white male and I just assumed this stuff didn’t apply to me, but I’m seeing a lot of my own internal fat phobia that I assumed was just being the jolly fat man.
Listening to MP and learning about diet culture, I was surprised to realize how much of my beliefs about moralizing food and exercise choices came from my (cis white) dad… not my mom, who had an actual eating disorder and exercise addiction (she’s doing much better now!)
You sound like a really good dad 🥲
Thank you. I’m trying.
This was me. It took me years. I took breaks from my RD and therapy because I felt "stuck", exactly like you said. I even said "stuck" in sessions a lot. I logically understood, but mentally couldn't believe for myself. But, after changing my social media to unfollow/follow certain accounts, having open conversations with friends, buying myself new clothes, and just letting myself exist in a space that wasn't focused on "fixing" myself but supporting every day life - it clicked. But again, it took time. I'm not sure what your journey will look like, but hang in there. I'm wishing you peace 🕊️
Thank you! I'm currently on a "break" right now. They were telling me to stop measuring food, even small parts at a time, changes to my regular diet, and I just couldn't (wouldn't?) do it. Hopefully it will click for me :/
Working with a professional around ED was.the only way that I began to see impactful change. They helped me troubleshoot behaviours and shift my mindset around food. It took time and regular contact though and it definitely had plenty of regressions during that time.
What kind of work did you do together? I worked with a certified ED specialist and didn't get far, not sure why though.
The person I worked with was a non diet dietician who was trauma informed which was what I needed. We explored beliefs around foods and behaviours that got in the way of eating. She gave me different language and a way of framing the components of a meal so that deciding on what to eat wasn't so stressful. We explored textures and sensations around food and what I enjoyed so I could aim for food that was pleasurable. She would help me troubleshoot when issues came up and help create plans to overcome them. There was so much that we did together that just slowly began to help shift the way that I engaged with food.
That sounds great
The right guide can be a real life saver. I hope you can find someone suitable for you. It can take a bit of trial and area to get a good fit 🙏
thank you!
Right there with you. I hear the logic, but it is like yes, that science applies to everyone in the world…except me. And I am not the exception because I am special and wonderful. I am the exception because I am so fundamentally flawed I need to hold myself to a higher standard, just so I can come out as “sort of” human. Dunno if that makes sense or not. But yeah. Stuck and feeling like I can’t change because change will make things worse instead of better.
Is it bad if this does make perfect sense to me? Lol.
I’m not a therapist or doctor of any kind, so don’t read too much into my opinion. Are you unable to enjoy food and just feel your body reacting to it? Can you eat a piece of chicken and try to notice, without any judgement whatsoever, how it makes you feel full and how it takes away the hunger pangs? Can you feel hunger pangs? I found what helped me was to try to do this observation exercise with different foods. I saw how bread alone ended the hunger pangs just like the chicken did, but it didn’t last as long. I repeated the experiment with all my favorite foods, so that I can mentally gauge when I’m likely to want to eat again. So I might take an extra few bites of chicken if I know it’s going to be a while before we get to eat again. One of my favorite exercises is journaling while slow eating a favorite food. Take a single bite of your favorite meal, and let it sit in your mouth for a second before chewing. Fully taste it with every part of your tongue. Evaluate the texture. Does this flavor have subtle notes you didn’t notice before? Do any emotions come up while you savor it? I’m not kidding when I saw I started crying over a bowl of ice cream doing this because I was so overwhelmed with love and nostalgia because it reminded me of a beloved childhood memory. Hope any of these help! Good luck on your journey.
I love food and eating, lol. I think my problem is still feeling like I have to "earn" it. And I hate having to rush eating but I do lots of the time because I'm a teacher. I have absolutely no hunger cues and never feel hungry, so I often detest having to eat because I feel like I"m just stuffing myself with food when I'm not hungry but just because I have to eat before work or it's my lunch time and I have to eat x calories
You don't feel "hunger" but I bet you do, you just call it something else. I don't have an eating disorder but I do have ADHD which can also cause me to ignore or not notice hunger cues until they become extreme, so I have to pay attention to the consequences of hunger and remind myself that's what I will feel like if I don't eat on time. When you haven't eaten lunch, and a few hours go by, do you feel: -tired/sluggish? -randomly sad? -randomly angry/irritable? -dizzy? -physically weak? -nauseous? -headache? -difficulty focusing? -feeling "slow" or like you aren't able to think as well as normal? All of this is hunger or a consequence of hunger, hunger isn't necessarily one specific feeling of wanting food. I feel you on the rushed eating thing too. I'm a naturally super slow eater, when I was in elementary/middle/high school I could never finish my lunch in the time available. I think partially as a result of so many years of unnaturally small meals bc of the time constraints, it's really difficult now for me to eat a large meal in one sitting. And because I tend to not notice hunger until it's too late, I am constantly swinging between eating a small meal or snack, feeling full, and then a few hours later being absolutely incapacitated because I haven't eaten enough to sustain myself. Something I am trying to work on is remind myself to eat snacks in between meals on a regular basis, so I never need to eat a whole lot at once and I can still eat enough throughout the day. Things like protein shakes, seasoned almonds, etc, things that are easy to eat and don't take a lot of effort/can be eaten while I'm working or doing other things. I also wonder, and this is just a guess because it happens to me, I apologize for doing armchair psychology on you, but is your focus on gaining weight kind of counter-productive? It seems like maybe you've just shifted the obsession with controlling your food from trying to restrict to trying to gain weight. I also have always been pretty much on the borderline of "underweight", but really what does "underweight" mean? If we accept that someone can be "overweight" and that isn't actually problematic, can't we say the same thing for being "underweight"? Obviously there are certain health risks that come with being extremely underweight, but I personally sometimes have to remind myself that I don't really need to gain weight, because the pressure of trying to eat bigger meals and put on muscle can actually booomerang around and make it harder for me to eat instead of being motivating. It's when I'm relaxed and not really thinking about how much I'm eating that I find myself being able to eat and enjoy full meals. Your focus on not allowing yourself to do certain types of exercise because you want to gain weight also feels like maybe it's not helping, unless a doctor has told you to do this. I am the most hungry and can eat the most after I've had an intense workout like skateboarding for a couple hours or lifting weights. It seems like you are arbitrarily not allowing yourself to do certain activities, maybe as some kind of punishment or because you feel like you have to gain a certain amount of weight before you can move on. That doesn't sound super helpful to me.
I have ADHD and crap interoception and I was literally in my 30s when I learned that hunger could manifest as anything other than "omg my stomach hurts and feels achy and I'm so shaky and feel like I want to murder someone right now" (I am this hungry maybe once a year) Slow eater- ME TOO!!!! One time in Elementary school my friend rang the teacher's bell to announce to everyone when I finished lunch first. Lol. I haven't remembered that in ages. I think it's also my ADHD but I HATE snacking. It's so annoying and hard to stop what I'm doing and do something else as it is, right now I am wiggling in my chair because I need to go to the bathroom and I've been meaning to put my laundry in the dryer for like 30 minutes It stinks because I look probably too thin but not like scary thin... and I feel fine... but I have a heart arrhythmia and no period, so, my doctors agree those are signs I need to be at a heavier weight. Sometimes I wonder if I was a man who didn't menstruate if I would even know I was underweight... I am really torn about this though because I've been told my doctors not to do cardio, but running is my absolute favorite exercise, makes me feel on top of the world, and makes me hungry like NOTHING else. Like bottomless pit hungry lol. In the past I had success gaining weight by running every day and eating a ton but that's too much stress on my heart I guess and bad for hormones...
Ah. I had to do something about that lack of time and those times when my hunger annoys me because I don’t want to stop what I’m doing g to eat. I keep hummus and veggies and whole grain crackers, peanut butter and whole grain toast, deli meat salads with cheese and ranch dressing, lots of roasted and salted nuts, hard boiled eggs, cheese sticks, and some chicken salad on hand for when I need to eat to end the hunger cues, but I don’t want to sit down and savor my food. These are all things I like, although none of them are my absolute favorite. I do know that I could use more fiber and vegetables in my diet, and all these things contain protein so they can carry me over into a meal I’m actually looking forward to. I hate the idea of meal prep, but I just realized I kind of do that.
I did and it took years. It was a series of small revelations over time - it definitely didn't happen all at once. I basically would hit rock bottom with one thing, and then be forced to let it go, and then another habit, and then another habit. But the real progress didn't happen until I got to the food. Really, it started in earnest with the food. Don't bother trying to change your mind when you are under-nourished. It will just leave you stuck forever. The food - ENOUGH food - more than you will ever be comfortable with - HAS to come first. I truly believe this is the non-negotiable. The mind followed (is following? it's going to be a work in progress for the rest of my life probably) afterward. And you are not stupid. This is just an incredibly hard thing to deconstruct. Disclaimer: I'm not any kind of doctor or medical professional, just a girl who went from having a fucked-up relationship with food to a not-so-fucked up relationship with food. Consult with your medical providers of course as always.
Thank you. I get this message from r/fuckeatingdisorders a lot, too. For some reason I can cheer other people on on that page, but eat as much as I want myself? nah. :/
Hey there, I really feel for you. As someone who's also dealt with an ED, I totally get how frustrating it can be when your mind and actions aren't lining up. It's awesome that you've internalized so much of the anti-diet culture message from Maintenance Phase – that's huge progress! But yeah, changing those deeply ingrained habits is a whole other battle. It's like our brains are on board, but our bodies (brains too somehow?) are still stuck in those old patterns. I've definitely found that the cliche that recovery isn't linear is true, and it takes time for our behaviors to catch up with our new beliefs. Maybe try focusing on one small change at a time? Like allowing yourself to be 5 minutes "late" on your walk occasionally. I don't know, I'm kind of in the same boat to some extent so I don't have any good advice. Hang in there, okay? The fact that you're questioning these behaviors and want to change is a big deal. You've already come so far, and even if it doesn't feel like it, you're making progress. Be kind to yourself – you're doing the best you can with a really tough situation.
thank you <3 I had a hard day today and this is really heartening to hear
Yeah, I definitely relate! I’ve been dealing with AN for 16 years and have been in different states of recovery (with varying success) for the past 2-3. For me, I’ve had to learn to accept that progress is halting and messy and slow and sometimes so small that it seems invisible. I’ve relapsed hard. I’ve gone months and years believing it will never get better. It always does. Re: MP, I relate to being SO on board with everything intellectually and then suffering from this massive disconnect when it comes to, like, literally feeling unable to stop measuring my granola or counting my steps. That’s where I’ll remind us both about neural wiring — these behavior patterns feel intractable because, neurologically, they’re well-worn paths in our brains, you know? (Tabitha Farrar is a good resource there.) I’m well into my recovery now and it’s deeply imperfect but I got here and it’s possible. There’s a lot more I could say about this if you ever want to continue the conversation, but you’re not alone 💛
I love Tabitha Farrar! How can I get her to be more in my brain, lol. The rewiring part is the hardest. I've even done psilocybin which has actually been far more helpful than therapy in some ways but I can feel my neural pathways trying to go right back to their usual grooves soon after, despite the mental perspective shift. It stinks. What worked for you with rewiring your brain?
Oh man, I’m really curious about your psilocybin experience! THC was kind of helpful for me for a second but I never really experimented with anything else. As far as rewiring goes…it’s been painstakingly slow, tbh. I have gone “all in” at various times: I went to residential treatment in 2018, and more recently tried all in to get my period back in 2023 after a relapse. Both times I was honestly too exhausted to do the slow, tiny changes thing. Both times I noticed the old behaviors slowly snap back into place after enough time had passed. That being said, I think both experiences were critical for me — they showed me I COULD live differently, that I was capable of it. (They also helped for quick weight restoration in a supportive environment.) Now, even though I find myself repeating a lot of old behaviors I thought I’d gotten rid of, I can see them more clearly and with a nourished brain, and I have the mental/emotional space to try to work on them slowly and incrementally again, without quite as much panic and distress as I felt when I was at rock bottom. Tl;dr: I’ve never been one of those people for whom recovery just *clicked* and I never looked back. It’s always been five steps forward, seven steps back, eight steps forward, seven steps back, seven point five steps forward…the metaphor is messy but you get the idea lol. The absolute biggest thing for me has been releasing the shame I feel around this, accepting that it’s f*cking hard, and continuing to show up for myself again and again in whatever way feels possible at any given time.
Psilocybin is amazing. It's like turning your brain into a snow globe and shaking it up, haha. There's so much burgeoning research now showing that psilocybin actually has lasting effects on rewiring your brain, it creates neuroplasticity during the dose and even for a time afterwards. It makes it ideal to use in conjunction with therapy work when you feel stuck. \\ Dang maybe it's time for me to do another trip, it's been awhile. Lol Kind of scary how easy it is to get back into old set habits... eating disorders seem harder to beat the longer you have them. Your experience is/will be just like mine. It's probably just the way our brains are wired. Yes, show up for ourselves again and again... thank you!
i'm in semi recovery for my restrictive eating disorder. physically, i am no longer starving myself. mentally, i still have ED brain. it's getting better though. things that helped me - no longer weighing myself. - no longer telling myself i need to be a certain weight to wear something, do something, go outside etc. or even eat something. when you do these things without restricting yourself, you will find them more enjoyable. such as people with EDs, they may fall into bingeing if they starve themselves. but if you allow yourself to have food with no limitations, people will become less inclined to binge on something that's always accessible to them. not that i think this is applicable to you, just that mindset is important. - don't want to put any numbers here but it takes a significant amount of calories for most people to put on 1kg/2.2lbs. also factor in maintenance calories. these days, when i feel like i eat a lot more than when i did during my restrictive cycles, i realise i won't actually be putting on any weight. i'll just be maintaining. - during the worst of my ED, my cognitive abilities rapidly declined. the brain fog. the irritability. the lack of focus. i was a shell of a person. there's a minimum amount of calories that your brain requires to function. i told myself i need to eat at least that much and i've been eating more than that too. - i feel better, my life is more well rounded, i can actually focus and do things. i'm no longer as angry at the world and my moods are better. in your post, you mentioned that you know you would get these benefits. it is important to just allow yourself to become better. i used to allow myself to be trapped but i realised that being someone who is completely controlled by their ED, having no friends because of their ED, afraid of going outside because of their ED, always dressing myself in sloppy, oversized clothing because of my ED - was frankly not representative of myself as a person. progress takes place outside the comfort zone. it was scary for me to no longer let my ED control my life but when it finally happened, i realise it is not that bad. it's not scary at all. i'm just living my life now without constantly feeling like i will pass out, become cognitively impaired, or die.
I 100% recognise the feeling of frustration that you can understand cognitively but cant change the behaviour- at some point the only thing that helps is someone forcing you to eat the food. I really recommend an outpatient program that will physically prevent you from using the behaviours and make you eat full portions.
I've been tempted to do this... it would be so hard with work though. Plus most outpatient clinics now you have to bring your own food, which kind of defeats the point.
Yes but the food you bring will have to be adequate to their guidelines. And with most programs as you continue you will be able to work with the dietician and therapist on cooking or preparing food there to avoid measuring. Plus they usually have 1 or two events a week where you order out or they provide food.
My dietitian has brought to my attention there are intensive outpatient programs you can do online. I had no idea such a program existed. I also have no idea how helpful it would be or even what it really looks like. She suggested a program from Renfrew, but I did see there are several different treatment centers that have versions of this. Maybe this is something to look at and see if it sounds like an option for you?
There is a huge difference between logically knowing that something is true, especially when applied to other people, and being able to feel like it is true when applied to ourselves. Unlearning stuff like this is really not as simple as just educating yourself, unfortunately. I think it takes a lot of therapy and time and effort.
No advice but just sending you good vibes- this stuff is SO hard to change. You got this!
Thank you, I like your username :)
Absolutely. I’m on the same page as you. 100% agree on the philosophy…anti-diet dietician by my side…love MP…read all the books. But I can’t “let go” of many of my mannerisms. I’ve never been clinically underweight even when I was restricting the most and lost my period. The whole societal expectation of “you’re not REALLY sick unless you’re underweight” has kind of continued to fuel the fire of my rigidity I think. Even though cognitively I understand that statement is untrue. PS: I’m not laughing at you but with you because I am also the person that will be 10 minutes late… because I have to do the exercise minutes/burn the calories, too. It’s sad but I have to laugh so I don’t cry.
Why are you in my head?? I feel every line you typed out. I know it isn’t exactly adding much to the conversation by saying that. But I have been feeling so stuck and so frustrated with myself. Like I am watching myself sabotage everything I don’t want to ruin, but I have no power OR will to stop it. But, it didn’t start that way, with no power or will - I did have that. But every word in my head screams out how wrong any information is that is meant to counteract the eating disorder. I don’t look like a media portrayal of anorexia. I am not underweight.. I am not an athlete or in my teens or 20’s. I am woman in her 40’s that thought this shit would be over by now.
at least we're not alone?
I could have written this. hahaha ... :P
Past tense, it took a long time with lots of stuck points and setbacks. When you’ve memorized calorie counts and measurements and such it can take a while to get to a place where that knowledge becomes irrelevant enough to be meaningless in the moment. Part of what made the work hard for me is that it requires a gentleness, compassion, and flexibility with yourself that is very much at odds with what an ED demands (exacting rules and a taste for punishment), AND all of the ups and downs that came with my body changing (praise for thinness, either silence or outright “I’m worried about you” commentary from family who preferred me thin and equate starving and compulsive exercise with health). I still have days when I feel frustrated with or critical of my body but the difference now is that it feels more like something my brain offers me as a “solution” when I am stressed rather than something real. I can make some space for it and carry on with my life. It is hard AND it is possible. That you are on board with anti-diet messaging and have been dismantling biases around food and body and health is already a huge step (and a requirement for everything that comes after; you need to have a “why” if you’re going to do hard things!) Cheering you on. ♥️
Thank you! This is all so spot on.
Hi there - you’re not alone. I’m 38F and have struggled with this exact thing since adolescence. Thanks USA Gymnastics. As I’ve aged it is more intrusive thoughts about restrictive eating and I do still feel compulsion to exercise but I am much more kind to myself nowadays, and I can recognize the harmful thoughts and reroute them. Things that have helped me - consuming content like MP (I don’t get on instagram anymore because it was all body checking / workout content for me despite the effort to change my algorithm), having an athlete partner who understands the psychology and can support me. Lots and lots of therapy, specifically EMDR. A primary care provider who I see regularly that talks openly with me about these things. This shit is so deeply wired in our brains, it takes considerable work to change those thought patterns, which will over time cause you to be less rigid. Keep working on it!
Thank you! Oof, I'm glad I quit gymnastics when I was still like 8. It's probably time for me to end my therapy break...
Look for podcast episodes by Christy Harrison! Food Psych is her old pod, and better one IMO. You will learn a lot and may get to the point where you want to stop restricting. She talks a lot about the harm that does to people. Good luck.
Yes I love her podcasts! I started out there, but MP is my favorite because I need more humor and snark to be able to digest this stuff sometimes lol.
That makes sense. Humor always helps! Hopefully more content like MP will come out.
Have you spoken to someone who can help with the control issues separate from food? For me, disordered eating is one of many maladaptive coping mechanisms. I find they all lessen in severity when I am not stressed or anxious. I have yet to find a therapist who has been helpful but sometimes I just luck into "good days."
I feel this so hard. I've had PCOS since I hit puberty and was always the "too big/too tall" girl, my entire life has just been like...being told I am too fat, too big, too tall, and years of restriction and disordered eating and being denied medical care because I was just "too fat", it's a lot to unlearn. I can have stretches where I'm like, fuck diets! Fuck restriction! Movement because I love it!! My daily routine is full of movement- I do yoga, weights, cycling almost every morning, and run 3-4 times a week, I stretch throughout the day (yay work from home), it's my jam to try new ways of moving, it's been a big part of helping my mental health too. And then I'll have one outing or party or photograph where I'm the biggest girl in the group, or everyone in the group is on weight loss meds or has had WLS except me and talks about how great it is to never be hungry, or one doctor's appointment where they ask me if I've ever tried exercising and losing weight and I need to do low carb and watch what I eat, and it all unravels into calorie counting and self loathing for the umpteenth time. The logical part of my brain knows it's bullshit, but the rest of my brain just spirals.
Oh OP, you’re not stupid- we’ve all internalised such incredibly toxic messaging about weight and worth. I don’t know if this will be helpful for anyone except me, but the turning point for me (you don’t say how you identify, but suggestions here are definitely more woman-focused) was separating beauty <> worth. It has taken me years since to start to feel beautiful, but the first step was not feeling like my worth as a human was by how pretty/skinny I could be. Some things that helped me: - Lindy west’s book Shrill - reading feminist literature incl Bell Hooks and the Beauty Myth (Naomi wolf has gone of the deep end - but this helped me at the time) - I really threw myself into work and hobbies - and made myself feel proud/at least say I was proud. And trying to sit with compliments I received in these areas - being a good friend and family member - mantras as a way to break up “bad thoughts “ - playlists w female rage lol (I now play Jax’s Victoria secret on repeat) - not-ED focused therapy - stopping food diaries/weighing - I threw out my scales for cooking and body - buying clothes I thought were cool rather than flattering - asking friends and family not to comment on my appearance I still have minor relapses but I am truly a different person now. It took years to get where I am but I mostly feel valuable and beautiful
Adding - And staying off Instagram!
This is kind of an outside the box suggestion, but if you’re struggling to get past not weighing your food, or mentally estimating calories as you prepare it, maybe consider doing prepared meals for a bit, so you don’t have the opportunity to do that, and can get used to what it feels like to live your life with like an adequate energy supply? Also, don’t deny yourself the opportunity to lift the big weights, it will likely increase your appetite and make it easier to get through eating the food, and will give you goals to work towards in the gym that aren’t about how many calories you burn or how much you weigh.
I am in a very similar situation to you - historically a more severe restrictive ED that has always manifested in being underweight, and I have harm reduced to a much better but still underweight (in both the 'my body' sense and the stupid bmi sense) and kind of gotten stuck there. Nobody comments on my body with concern they way they would when I was a teenager and first got sick either. It's like this is just who they think I am now. IMO the thing about eating disorders is that they're not, at their root, about diet culture. Diet culture is why like 70 % of American women have messed up relationships with foods, and that's who the MP mentality can probably help. But once you've had anorexia for 10 years there's a lot else going on and this podcast/mentality really is not targeted to you I don't think. I do think that diet culture definitely influences how EDs present. For ex, I know instagram is what made me so obsessed w/ protein! I was influenced even though rationally I know it's pretty silly! However, I really dislike the narrative that diet culture is the only or main cause of most EDs. I think there are also very strong emotional/identity and biological/physiological components driving things. I think that's why for me at least it's very easy to rationally want to gain weight, rationally see through diet culture (in fact ED treatment is sort of bootcamp in seeing through it...), enjoy listening to MP and yet not on an emotional or physical level be able to follow through to the extent I'd need to. When you've had a chronic ED long enough it's not so simple to say F it and just eat more and love/even tolerate your body and etc. You're not stupid, you just have a mental illness. The last 2 things I'll add (and maybe you can relate to them??) is that: 1) during my ED I have tended to hyper-focus on food related topics. And one of those is intuitive eating. If I'm entirely honest with myself, listening to MP is \*part\* of my eating disorder in the same way obsessing over restaurant menus for places I'll never eat at is 2) FWIW (and maybe I will get downvoted for this so pls don't take as advice to follow my path exactly of something) I decided at some point to stop listening to doctors who told me not to exercise - specifically, strength training. They were right that it makes it harder calorically to gain weight and if the goal is to get to a healthy weight as fast as possible, cardio etc is counterproductive. But eventually I decided that since I wasn't getting there very fast regardless, I was going to stop putting my life on hold. It's a dialectic: my relationship with exercise now is kinda compulsive, but it also brings me joy and has improved my relationship with food. It also REALLY helped the misc walking/movement compulsions I'd had before (stuff like missing the bus because I couldn't bare to weight and always tried to walk to the next stop, unloading dishes in as many steps as possible) to just explicitly follow an exercise program. EDs are on a continuum and exercising has helped me to get to a better place on that continuum even if "full recovery" evades me. Doctors don't know everything esp about EDs. For me, they were wrong about exercise. I have never felt worse physically, deteriorated faster, or been more consumed by my ED than during periods where I was sedentary. You just need to be really strict + honest with yourself about not exceeding certain limits.
Hi! I am in recovery from anorexia and also spent a considerable portion of my life underweight. I am no longer underweight but because of hypermetabolism (from fluctuating from my recovery weight too much while I spent a few months homeless and currently being food insecure & on EBT) I am no longer at my recovery weight. Anyways, I would definitely seek out an ED dietician. I saw one for years. If you can’t afford one or your insurance won’t cover one, yes, resources about intuitive eating. I actually had to be in inpatient and residential treatment more than once, and while there and in my initial phases of recovery, I began unlearning a lot of this stuff on here, it’s an amazing secret lil resource for both ED recovery and anti-weight stigma: [heavyweightheart.tumblr.com](https://heavyweightheart.tumblr.com)
This may be barking up the wrong tree entirely, but commenting here as someone with no history of disordered eating, but definite OCD tendencies...have you ever looked into/discussed the possibility of OCD with a professional? The behaviour of walking an extra ten minutes because you 'have to' burn the calories rings really familiar to me.
Oh yeah, OCD was my first diagnosis. Started when I was 10
Oh wow yeah, spot on then. I wonder if working with someone who's versed in OCD (I know medication helps for some) in conjunction with a dietician might help?
Oh, I see this comment now.
I had an ED for 20+ years, and while I'm in a place where I'm healthiest I've ever been behavior wise, I'm still pretty strict with what feels safe/doable and what doesn't. It's really hard to take away the messaging we've told our brains. Honestly, though, if I stay where I'm at behavior wise for the rest of my life, I would be happy. I'm not tortured by it anymore. And sometimes accepting the place I'm at is the best I can do. I do have to kind of keep track to be sure I'm not falling into patterns that are harmful to my recovery, and I'm still seeing haes based providers. I've been in recovery for 5-6 years. Keep making the next right decision for your health, stay the course, op! You've got this. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
This is really relatable. I feel like I'll always having to be making some kind of conscious effort to, idk, not have an ED?
Yes to a degree… MP definitely helped my disordered eating, but I do still get a little panicky when I see a bit of extra weight on my belly, which still causes some restrictive eating. It is much better than it was, but I still catch myself being underweight sometimes and needing to put effort into gaining weight again.
You’re not alone. I recovered in my early twenties, fully weight restored, I never loved my body but I accepted it and focused on what it could do, etc. Fully relapsed 6 months ago, and although I absolutely know how bad it is for me, it’s extremely hard to stop losing weight.
It still sucks but finding an outpatient dietician whose approach resonated with me has been the biggest help. It's not just the fact that she isn't fatphobic, it's her flexibility, ability to trust me, and willingness to hold me accountable without freaking out if I fail. She helps me make tangible goals for myself but doesn't ask me to count exchanges or keep track of what I'm eating. We have a plan to increase my care if my blood work starts coming back restrictey without sending me immediately to the hospital. It really helps, but it took me a while to find her.
Hey OP, I wonder if your ED is a symptom / manifestation of a different issue? That could be why your ED treatment wasn’t fully successful. There comes a point in cognitive behavioural therapy where you *know* what the “right” behaviours are, but you just can’t adopt them. I think it’s worse for folks who are really self aware. For me, CBT taught me to recognize the issue, taught me a better way, but fell short in the implementation phase. I’ve had way more success with IFS, which I find to be more holistic. Again, that’s my personal experience, and I know lots of people for whom CBT worked wonders. I’m not sure if you have the resources for it, but if you do, I’d highly recommend it. BTW, the thing I needed to earn was relaxation. It blew my goddamn mind when I found out I didn’t have to earn it, lol. My fear was being seen as lazy. Lazy was the absolute worst label one could have in my house when I was growing up. I wonder (and please don’t take this as an accusation, it’s more an invitation to gain insight) if maybe the message you got was the worst label one could have and where that came from - besides boasted from everywhere, lol. Wishing you the best in your recovery x
Oh gosh I've wondered this too!! I'm like, is this a coping mechanism for something else that's the problem? For example, my friend developed an ED when she was in an abusive relationship. She broke up with him, a year later found the person she would then marry. She gained her own self-worth and boom, eating disorder gone. Not saying it's the same for me but I mean maybe something like that... I do fear that deep down I am a severely lazy person. And everything I do is so that I'm not a loner who sits in my house all day just eating and reading and being on the internet lol
I am not a therapist (though my mom is), and I was also going to suggest seeing a mental health professional about a possible other diagnosis. For example, your description of needing to weigh everything so it’s the “same” but then not knowing “the same as what” sounded potentially like an OCD symptom. Again, not a therapist, not a diagnosis, it could be something else. But I think it’s worth looking into other diagnoses.
wow it's really interesting to me how many people here have said this sounds like OCD perhaps even more than the ED. That's probably spot on. You all are so smart lol
I am not recommending kids to “fix” things. But I am one of five girls and we all got an eating disorder from our mother. She is now 80 and is emaciated and spent our entire young lives measuring our waists and discussing what needed to be fixed at the dinner table. Obviously, ‘twas deeply fucked up. Anyway, I am the mother of five girls now as well and I will be damned if I break my babies’ brains and spirits and make them hate their perfect, healthy, strong bodies. So my answer is to fake it till you make it. It’s called acting. I will never let them see me starve myself. They will see me make healthy choices. I will eat. I will not purge. I will allow myself to have treats, because they also should get treats. For me it really is as simple as faking it until you make it. I don’t want to eat this food. But I will pretend that I am normal and not afraid of calories. And then that has kind of come back around to intuitive eating. The make it part of the saying. I never say anything bad about my appearance. I never discuss someone else’s appearance (like an actor or whatever) unless it’s positive. Words matter, both spoken aloud and the ones in your brain. With an ED, you spent your whole life being mean to yourself. You have said some terrible things in your head. Be nicer to yourself. You are an example to all the little humans in the world whose moms are thundercunts. You are proof that you can recover and thrive. The kids of the world can’t see you, but there is someone on earth that could probably use your example something fierce right now. I have an easier time “faking it” for others than for myself. And after faking for years and years, I feel like I can say I completed the made it part. I am healthy and on the other side. I believe in you so hard! Hiccups happen, just shake it off and take care of your body and brain.
I totally get this! I'm a teacher, I do Montessori with 3-6 year olds, so I do a lot of the same thing. My teacher persona is super food enlightened lol. Diet culture comes in STRONG right away, so I do some mild parent coaching when they are open but I definitely model a healthy relationship in the way we talk about food and our bodies with the children, even if I'm having trouble myself. I follow some anti-diet for kids blogs like Kids Eat in Color and that has been really helpful.
Yes. I'm fat with a restrictive ED past 14 years. My doctor tried to give me ozempic for the third time lmfao fuck him Ugh
MP has genuinely saved my life in recovery. I found the pod during my first two weeks of anorexia recovery, through the "trouble with calories" episode, and it's helped me completely reshape my views. Even if a lot of it is stuff I logically knew-- diets don't work, that's why my eating disorder was killing me-- hearing it from real people made it so much easier to untangle my brain. I'm 6.5 months in now, and while I am still struggling, I am a million times happier and healthier than I was a year ago when I was struggling with the worst relapse of my life. I heavily credit MP for helping me find the courage to work through a lot of the eating disorder bullshit in my head.
Yes! It really did change a lot of the narration in my head happening about food and exercise and what other people were doing
I agree with the other post's about food specifically but I'd also encourage you to try body-based support like acupuncture, massage, biofeedback. Just be sure to work with a HAES provider. Body-based therapies help with relaxation, nervous system regulation and allow you to be in your body in a positive way.
As a fat person, I had very restrictive eating patterns that were always applauded and cheered on by most people. I’m in recovery and it’s a mindfuck to explain to people that I don’t do diets or diet talk anymore because all the restriction when I was younger highly affected the way I look today. I’m sorry you’re struggling OP- I hope you find peace in your journey
Mine is ARFID which came on after a combo of health issues. It's brutal. I've also got 50 years of internalized fat hatred. My mother died at 80 of leukemia but she finally made her WW goal! It's sickening. I have lost weight and struggle with malnutrition and electrolytes imbalance. The show helped me as did some of the books you mentioned. It's still a battle and I've worked on it in therapy. I still body check everyone but I now neutralize it. Large person small person old person active person. I don't give it a value judgement. It's a daily struggle