easier to just say that they have some narcissistic traits, really no way to know for sure unless they’re diagnosed and most won’t go through that process
i wonder this a lot, and therapy helps. we talk through the reasons why i think i might be, and i am reassured that if i was, i wouldn’t actually care about asking these questions. every time i get in one of these mental states where i question everything and wonder if i was making shit up, i’ll also take a bunch of “am i a narcissist” quizzes on the internet. obviously those cannot diagnose me, but when i can’t see my therapist, it’s helpful. i have this intense fear of being one because i’ve put myself in too many relationships where i was questioning my reality, so i have told myself i must be the problem.
my most recent bout with this happened when a former friend group accused me of cyberbullying/refusing to speak to an ex (even have screenshots to prove i have offered multiple times to speak to said ex) and not being able to hold myself accountable for my actions. i worked on an apology for the situations mentioned in that accusation for a whole day (even brought it to an emergency therapy session to discuss before sending), and i meant every word. my therapist said that most people wouldn’t even bother to put as much time and effort. the apology was read and never responded to (which i expected), but the whole thing made me question if i’m actually a narcissist all over again.
ooooof I've been in the same goddamn spot. lost entire friend groups because they suddenly turned on me with no mercy, usually for the crime of having one (1) differing opinion on something that doesn't really matter. it took me a really long time to realize and fully understand that the problem was with them, not me
Don’t know if they’re narcissists or not, but those sound like toxic people that you’re better off without. The ability to disagree agreeably is vital to any relationship, be it friend, family, romantic partner, or even just coworker or acquaintance.
Ask yourself who you learned that from and why it concerns you. And if you think your behaviors make other people ENJOY or TOLERATE your existence. That will help you find answers.
My mom and grandma suffer from narcissistic personality disorder and some bpd, grandmother is also histrionic so I had to do a lot of “flea shedding” in order to save myself from their curse. Flea shedding means unlearning toxic behaviors from proximity to a narcissist
I feel the learned behaviors, im a crippling people pleaser and had to tell myself that I am a real person and its a lot harder than it may sound, even just rejecting little things like hanging around people who just want to be near me because I always want to accomodate like im compensating for being me.
If you are anything like me, every second is rejection anxiety in a group. I am teaching myself to put myself first instead of others and being fine with being more reserved and solid on my beliefs.
I tell myself “I am a human being and as valuable as everyone else, noone should make me feel like I need to reduce my presence or feel like I dont belong.
and this is where it’s difficult because the people who have hurt me the most in life are self-proclaimed people pleasers, which also make me wonder if it’s me
people like being people pleasers because of the power. self proclaimed people pleasers are scary because why do they need to tell you how good of a person they are (not this person maybe but the ones who go on to you about how much they will be there for you because they are there for everybody like a princess Carolyn so then theres finally a favour of you owing them something because they lack communication skills and there is always an angle)
I went though this when I was hit with a narc relationship. I read everything I could find in it because my whole world was tuned upside down. My therapist said I wouldn't even be worried about it if I was, I'd just think it was my divine right to screw ppl over
“What if I’m a narcissist?” Is a commonly asked question by people who are definitely not narcissists! It’s normal to take on narcissistic traits as a survival mechanism but a true narc wouldn’t care
ok this is a really interesting point. i behaved very narcissistically during and after my relationship with him because i felt very hurt. so it has me questioning if i am and never knew it. but i also don’t know if it was just trying to cope with how much he hurt me
Like p much everyone else said, you really wouldn't be questioning it.. you would just do the things.
Trauma can make you do bad things, and everyone can have narc traits what matters is how you move forward and prevent these things. Narcs don't do that work most of the time. I can't say all, I don't have that knowledge.
Narcissists can question if they’re narcissists lmao this is a false idea. While it’s not as common for them to be self aware and such mine once asked me if I thought he was. At the time I don’t believe I had an answer or was scared to answer
They are capable of introspection, but typically their self awareness has massive blind spots and their limited empathy prevents them from truly understanding the damage they cause.
I’ve been married to a covert narcissist for 12 years.
Yeah you aren’t the narcissist. The fact you wondered if it’s you almost confirms you are not. Narcissists do not self reflect because they are full of shame (their gross acts so they usually confabulate and their stories are always half lies and half true… the lie is that they somehow are always the good guys in the story). So yeah you wondering if you are 100 percent negates that possibility
1. Are you capable of arguing the pov of the other person in a meaningful way?
2. Do you have reasonable expectations for how other people will enforce boundaries?
3. Do you have reasonable expectations for how others should treat you?
4. Are you capable of taking full accountability without somehow minimizing the impact?
Do you feel this way with other people or just with your ex? Do you only question your reality that involves your ex? It's possible that your ex was one, and you think you are one because that's something narcissists like to do. Also, remember having narcissistic traits doesn't make you a narcissist. It's a spectrum. To be a narcissist, you have to be at the other end of it.
i never wondered until after my ex hurt me then i read up on narcissist abuse. then i realized i obsess over my looks and im very pessimistic which are narcissistic traits
Every human being has narcissistic traits.. you do, I do, the op does... the way to know if you are one is to talk to a therapist. Unless the other person is one in recovery... and they tell you... then you will never actually know.
Signs:
- acts entitled or arrogant and seems to have a superiority complex
- selfish and manipulative
- ignores boundaries
- gaslights (makes you question your reality)
- seems to lack empathy or any real compassion for others
- a little too into drama and/or displays attention-seeking behaviors
- *makes you feel like you have to walk on eggshells (aka they make you feel uncomfortable)
*this is the key sign. Listen to your body.
The problem I have with the way people use “gaslighting” is that the person who accuses you of gaslighting is assuming they are correct. Some cases are easy, like “I saw you at the mall.” If you actually saw them and they deny, ok, gaslighting. But if they say “you said X” and I reply “I didn’t say that” there is a whole world of interpretation. Perhaps the listener misunderstood, or their emotions are clouding the way they heard it. Also possible that I actually said “X” but I did not intend the way it came out, so I don’t recall expressing that sentiment. In those cases, I don’t think it’s gaslighting.
As for “they make you feel like you are walking on eggshells,” certainly it can be the other persons behavior, but if you feel like you are walking on eggshells, it’s also possible that you are overreacting, are anxious or a whole host of other things that have more to do with you than the other person.
My gf called me the other day SCREAMING AT ME that she hates me bc I sent her a few snaps and deleted them. (I was gunna take her on a date but she was already being crazy... I realized I autopiloted the invite to go on a date to make her feel better, which just reinforces the bad behavior, right? So I deleted it.)
She called me 2x more screaming at me, I'm in the shower, so I hang up and block her.
When I told her she can't call me and scream at me, she said it wasn't her....
That's pretty much it I know she's a narc now but idk I guess I'm such a sociopath that I want to try to help her by being her Daddy.
Sex is alright but I guess I should be worried she's gunna cut my dick off in my sleep...
Haha wow, now THAT is extreme! My wife has in the past accused me of gaslighting her bc I disagreed about how an argument we had had started. She said I started it by doing X and I said, no you started it by doing Y. So she said I was gaslighting her, which is a bullshit way of honestly manipulating me by implying that if I don’t agree with her memory on everything, I am gaslighting her. Sigh…social media pop psychology is making relationships worse
This is in no way a good list to go by. I’d suggest reading something APA on narcissistic traits or the criteria for NPD. This kind of comment is what gets people falsely accusing others of narcissism and isn’t helpful.
I have to agree with this 100%. The list of traits you find everywhere are far too simplified for something so very complicated. Plus everyone shows one or 2 traits from time to time & there's also a ton of overlap with other disorders/ mental hiccups that may or may not be as outwardly destructive. Many ppl are seeing things that they don't fully understand yet are quick to label based on the trend of "awareness".
Narcs are much harder to spot than ppl realize because they spend their whole lives perfecting hiding their traits, pretending to be someone they're not which can even vary depending on the person or group they're talking to. Once you get to see behind the mask of a narc (which really is controlled by them & how they feel), the only thing about them that makes any sense is the fact that nothing makes sense. Everything about them is a walking contradiction that you won't get to see unless you've been around them long enough to be ae to spot the consistent inconsistencies & patrerns & they've also chosen you as a target for whatever reason.
You could be sitting next to a narc every day for 10 yrs & never freaking know what they are.
You probably won't know for sure unless they tell you (and sometimes they do tell you). I go by extreme behaviors. If someone seems to care only about their success, looks, possessions, etc and doesn't seem to have much empathy for anyone else without there being an obvious cause, I usually start thinking they're probably a narc and it's time to move away. If they seem vindictive and have a fragile, but huge ego, I assume narc or at least high in narcissistic traits and get away. I've met several people who qualify for these and they might not have all been narcs, but they act so close to narcs that it's just safer to back away regardless because at the very least they're extremely toxic to your wellbeing. Unfortunately there's like 1-2 everywhere I go (especially at work). But most people fall within a relatively normal range of personality traits UNLESS you're in certain industries like upper echelons of organizations, Hollywood, education, etc. Those industries do naturally attract more narcs than an average place would.
Deep down all of the manipulation and bravado is a mask for DEEP and CRIPPLING insecurity. They will do absolutely ANYTHING to not be rejected, including rejecting others before they can be rejected.
This includes avoiding self-criticisms. They lack the sense of self-worth required to consider that they are the ones that need to change or have issues to work on.
I was married to a Covert Narcissist for 14 years and the psychological abuse caused a nervous breakdown. His behaviour was so extreme especially towards the end that I didn’t trust my own intuition or reality. The gaslighting was nearly 24/7, he would even wake me at 3am to try and convince me I was the abusive party and he would support me if I stayed. He made me question everything about myself, what I had seen, heard, felt. I was a mute for the last few months and needed the help of victim support services to be able to trust myself enough to leave.
A true narcissist will tell you themselves what they are and what they are doing if you listen well enough. It’s quite bizarre really. They are really good at acting, everything is with motive and they are good at poking you for reaction. They are highly selfish, without empathy and will literally run for the hills than admit any accountability.
If someone is making you feel you are constantly questioning your own reality and intuition you are better off without them. Save yourself, the hole only gets deeper with a true Narc.
Good luck x
This. My first wife absolutely has NPD but she is overt. And I knew after a while she was broken in a way that only she could fix but there was no way she was ever walking through that door. My second wife, was worse. A covert narcissist. I didn't even know that was a thing at the time. But what you said about the non stop gaslighting, the narrative rewrites painting you as abusive. And questioning your own reality to the point of just barely functioning in survival mode. When I actually started to challenge these things, when her mask had slipped off frequently enough towards the end I started to understand my intuition, this unrelenting feeling of never being at ease around her even while loving her more than anything in the world...had merit. That's when she went full discard and on a level that even after almost 2 years I still can't fully comprehend how a human being can be that void of emotion. Every single promise she ever made. The "I would never do this" or "this would never happen to us" promises over our 11+ years together. It's Like she had a fucking checklist of every fear, insecurity or painful experience I'd ever shared with her and she was hell bent on making them a reality. Which she absolutely did. I had already been in therapy for a couple years before she left because of course, she convinced me I was the crazy one. But during and after my therapist helped me piece it all together. I remember she sent me a checklist of 30 behaviors you can experience with a female covert narcissistic and I swear on my life and my kids lives... She checked off 28 out of 30. I'm not even where I would consider myself fully healed but I'm so far beyond it at this point, been no contact now for over 9 months. The fucked up part: she knows. She would talk about how broken she was. How selfish she was. How she knows there's something wrong with her and she needs to "go deep" to fix it. But she certainly never said that around anyone but me. Something I didn't put together until afterwards. That no one but me was hearing that side, they were hearing how terrible I was. I almost killed myself in the middle of all of it. Not something I'm proud of but that's how fucked up I was at one point. Now: I'm off all the meds I now know I would have never needed in the first place without her being in the picture. No anxiety. No panic attacks. No irrational mood swings. Nothing. I still have bad days but they are more than manageable. I'm genuinely very sorry you had to experience anything like that. When I see posts like yours, my heart breaks because unless someone has been in your shoes they have no idea how hopeless, debilitating and horrible experiencing something like that is. I hope you see nothing but brighter days from here on out. ♥️
This link contains the most recent DSM guidelines, which direct clinicians to diagnose using a combination of a dimensional model and the list of traits that's always floating around.
https://www.mind-diagnostics.org/blog/narcissistic-personality/narcissistic-personality-disorder-dsm-5-criteria-and-treatment-options
You'll notice that the dimensional part (the first section that talks about self functioning, interpersonal functioning, and antagonistic traits) is less obvious from observing a person. One way of describing NPD is that people with this disorder lack realistic self esteem and are often seeking validation/a self esteem boost from others. They have an impaired sense of their own identity (they use others to regulate self esteem and/or are excessively attuned to what others value rather than setting their own goals), they have challenges relating to others (challenges empathizing and forming deep relationships), and have antagonistic traits (they have high levels of entitlement and seek attention in a way that goes far beyond the average person). Again, these qualities are often difficult to see unless you are a clinician doing therapy, because therapists are asking the right questions and carefully analyzing the answers.
I think that the popular hubbub over narcissism is describing three different things: clinically diagnosable NPD, subclinical strongly narcissistic traits/behaviors that cause others distress, and generically toxic people. So I think that when people use the label narcissist, a lot of them are really saying that they felt used or seriously disrespected, or someone presented themselves in a false way initially.
The important question to ask is: was this person's behavior acceptable? Do I want to be treated this way? Also, a diagnosis is never what causes abusive behaviors. People choose to act in abusive ways; having a diagnosis is no excuse.
i love this. i do feel like sometimes people diagnose others with disorders when they feel slighted so that was why i was trying to avoid diagnosing my ex as i’m not a clinician. i am, however, trying to figure out if what he did was narcissistic abuse so i can put a name to it and hopefully heal from it
It's tricky, because on the one hand I do think many people use the term narcissist in a way that's almost meaningless, as it has no connection to the diagnostic category that psychologists have researched and theorized about. I.e., someone says "he was mean to me---NARCISSIST!" On the other hand, I think awareness if the term gives people who have experienced a bewildering and devastating relationship pattern a name for it and a way to talk about what happened.
Personality disorders are only supposed to be diagnosed when an individual experiences distress in multiple domains of life, such as work, romance, and friendship. NPD case studies in research journals typically depict people who are really struggling. As a contrast, someone who is successful at work, carries on successful (albeit possibly shallow) friendships, but is abusive toward a romantic partner would at most qualify for a high functioning personality disorder due to lack of impairment in multiple domains. Someone can leave a trail of destruction in their wake, but if it doesn't impact their own life, the DSM directs clinicians not to make a diagnosis (though it's always possible that some clinicians would chose to make the diagnosis anyways).
So I actually think a lot of what people on the web are talking about is a subclinical manifestation of traits and behaviors of narcissism. I've found this helpful in my own life, not to slap a diagnostic label on someone, but to recognize and better understand a behavioral pattern from the literature. For example, I've run into a few people who seemed offended and even hurt when I had successes or got any amount of attention from someone, and they worked to undermine me. Their reactions felt bizarrely out of proportion with the facts of the situation, until I figured that they may have found my successes or bonds with others threats to self esteem. Knowledge is empowering.
Abuse is abuse is abuse. There's a power and control wheel that you can find online which helped me realize that it disnt matter what his behaviours or diagnosis were.... that was his to sort out. I was abused by someone who said he loved me. Full stop. Healing is required. Full stop. I feel like had I been able to say "well he had a personality disorder" would be me bargaining with myself that somehow it excused his behaviour. Poor him. That's how I know I wasn't the bad guy. Despite everything he did I still want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'd rather believe I was the bad guy cause I know I'm someone who would recognize destructive behaviours and do something about it
I wish you healing.
I think a lot of people have narcissistic traits, so if somebody shows one, they are just automatically labeled. When you're not necessarily a narcissist unless you cover the spectrum majorly.
Everyone does. What makes someone a narcissist is the frequency and quantity of traits listed on the chart. But we all display the properties from the test to some degree.
So far, in my experience, every time I have dated someone that claims their ex was a narcissist I have unfortunately discovered they were most likely the narc in the previous relationship.
Describe your experiences to your therapist, and ask that specific question. Based upon the history you provide, the therapist SHOULD know the best treatment. It sounds like you've had a relationship with someone with the traits of a cluster b disorder. The name that goes on that disorder isn't really the important thing as far as you're concerned. It could be any level of any specific disorder in that cluster b group. It's a spectrum with overlapping symptoms. Whatever it is, it messed you up.
Read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft - it was a real eye opener for me. That being said, as many others have stated, you can’t diagnose him yourself but I agree with finding out about narcissistic “tendencies” or “behaviors.” We’re all a little narcissistic sometimes if you only go by one or two traits, but when they start piling up it becomes much clearer.
Here’s a pdf to the book for free, the author simply wanted the knowledge to be out there for those of us who’ve suffered narcissistic abuse. Hope this helps ❤️
https://tu.tv/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that.pdf#page771
. You feel like you have to walk on egg shell with them
. You always feel anxious about their reaction.
. You feel loved with a very specific pattern: one day you feel love bombed, the following day, you don't know where to stand, and their actions makes you question everything.
. You are in a relationship, but feel alone. They do not show up for you, when it matters. They isolate you.
. They cut corner without consideration for others.
. They feel entitled: what is yours, is theirs. What it theirs is theirs. They don't want to you have friends from the opposite sex, but they are "allowed to.
Use how you feel when you are with them, as an accurate reference.
Talking with several therapists/ psychologists/ psychiatrists over the last year: they’ve all told me similar information that it’s like 1% of the population or less that actually fall into the true“narcissists” b-cluster diagnosis of narcissists. Most humans have a varied range of narcissistic and empathetic traits. It’s normal to have a fairly consistent balance of both throughout life.
It’s more likely to e partner you are experiencing narcissism from maybe just exhibiting their childhood wounds and being exasperated by the relationship.
The trick is learning to communicate and heal those wounds together
A lot of narrcisist behaviors resemble ordinary behaviors. For example, a belief that you're special and unique could be a person who's low in a personality trait called modesty. About a quarter of all people are that way.
That's why it's not enough to say, "this person has a grandiose sense of self importance, they must be a narrcisist." No. You need a ton of narrcisisitic behaviors crammed together, which is why narrcisisit personality inventories exist. (And are easily found on Google )
It doesn’t matter what sort of personality the skew towards. We all have narcissistic traits and and there only a % of population of people who are actually diagnosed as narcissist in a medical sense.
What matters is whether you are happy or not, if they respect your limits or not, if they are flexible or not etc.
Let’s stop the social media diagnostic tool it’s not validated scientifically.
Pathological inability to accept responsibility for their actions.
Not just someone who won't but someone who physically can't. Someone who will make up wild outlandish explanations and even laugh because they know it's so ridiculous but physically won't be able to accept responsibility for their actions.
Which leads to pathological lying. My ex lied about... Literally... Everything. Even when it didn't make any sense to lie. She would even joke "Well I've always lied. When I was a kid I'd tell a lie even if the truth sounded better." It's like now I can look back at some of the more ridiculous lies and laugh about them because they were wildly outlandish. It does come with a rabbit hole issue though. Because I know that what I eventually found out, or know about, what I witnessed in real time during the discard phase...doesn't even scratch the surface of the messed up shit she was doing the entire time we were together. So I try to lock that up fast. What I know about her was enough I should have left in the beginning. Could have at any point in our 11+ years we were together based on the lies that continued. And it's more than enough now to never speak to her again. So no need to look under any more rocks lol.
I get why people want to know if someone is living with a diagnosis of NPD. It can be validating for us when we have experienced levels of abuse that align with traits characterized by the disorder.
As others have mentioned, it’s not only a challenge to diagnose but also a very rare thing to diagnose for numerous reasons- especially since many who have the condition are known to have very treatment resistant attitudes about their condition.
I think what’s important is to look past the labels and to acknowledge facets of the behaviour that you may feel personally affected by. We don’t have to say “my ex was a narcissist” to describe why we were mistreated or to justify why we may have left that relationship.
“My ex cheated on me with the coworker he said not to worry about, after several attempts to confront the messages that blatantly told me otherwise”, for example, is enough to paint the picture of the individual and why we left.
Moreover, it’s far more important to effectively move onwards from the negative experience without harbouring more hurt based on the expectations we’d have of the individual. A manipulator is going to manipulate, but it’s up to us to ensure that we can leave that environment in a way that cultivates our own wellness and recovery- and not allowing the individual to disempower us further by living the rest of our lives upset by what they did to us.
A narcissist is a master at gaslighting and projecting. I knew some women who did that A LOT including a long time now ex-friend of mine. If someone tends to throw that term out there liberally with people in their lives there's a good chance that SHE is the narcissist.
They lack any and all self awareness. Incapable of genuinely apologizing as well. Like even if they do, they have a justification of sorts. Narcissism is a WIDE spectrum and does not exclusively present itself as someone who is out to cause harm. You can be a complete asshole and still not be a narcissist, oddly enough. That’s how nuanced the disorder is.
First of all. Just talk about someone who is toxic or self centred. Only few are actually narcissistic.
I think it’s important to not base it off ”doesn’t apologize, talks about themselves, cares about prestige”. All humans do and it’s too vague. Often people that have narcissistic traits themselves might be unable to accept that someone had an excuse, or is so uninterested in other people that they are disturbed by them just sharing.
I also don’t think it’s good to base it off how you feel around said person as we have different tresholds for when we experience anxiety!
However some concrete behaviours are good to base it off. Remember that it has to be extreme - not doing anything of it at all can also be an issue. There is such a thing called ”healthy narcissism”.
But like this: networking is not narcissism. Nor is curating your social circle. But… If a person genuinely avoids friendship with someone because of their title and belittled them: red flag.
A lot of things can be confused with narcissism.
It is a buzz word! I’m glad u notice that. U gotta be careful it’s like a girl says I had a fight with my bf is he a narcissist and ull look in the comments. And all these ppl will be like yea leave him 😂 in reality there’s no way for us to know unless we know the situation irl. They say almost all ppl have some narcissistic traits but there’s definitely not as many as Reddit says. Idk watch dr ramni and add all those up. It’s kinda rude to call someone that if they actually aren’t Reddit!
**First clue right when you meet them:** they are trying hard to impress you by talking about themselves whether is about how great they are or how much they like to help others without showing genuine curiosity about who you are as person deep inside.
This can turn into a very **intense and fast** experience because they want to charm you and talk to you for as long as they can. They'll say things like **"never/always"** "I've never met someone like you or I was always waiting for someone so special like you" when you dig for what or why, they can't answer.. they say something like "oh I just do"
So you MUST slow down and put an artificial boundary. Any person that is emotionally immature will want and try to bring that boundary down at any cost even by acting cute and funny ("oooh but I miss you soooo much.. I couldn't wait") or they'll use the ignore method.. the key thing is that they'll engage in some sort of extreme behavior.
I'd say give 3 to 6 months before you consider opening up about your vulnerabilities with someone and keep honoring your boundaries while observing their reaction.
they can't contact anyone from their past. ALL their exes were crazy, but they're perfect. people are disposable (ask them what they do with friends they don't need or like anymore). they ghost A LOT of people, they relocate and start all over. they don't keep too many belongings and rarely have personal effects they hang onto. but you don't have to be a narc, you can just be toxic lol
The best way my therapist told me was to wait for a disagreement to happen and just ignore them. Don’t defend your opinion. Don’t say anything in response. Pretend you don’t hear them anymore. Complete cold-shoulder. If they continue to provoke you or begin to fold and beg for you to say something, that is normally a clear sign.
Anyone can display some narcissistic traits or behaviors.
A narcissistic personality disorder is another level entirely.
Why is it important to know? Is it so that we can feel better about the way someone treated us, by saying they must have a disorder, because no normal, healthy person would ever treat me this way?
You gotta wait till their proper diagnosis comes, dude. I know it sounds wild, but mental health issues must be addressed by mental health professionals.
They have to have so many of the traits to actually have NPD. Everyone has narcissistic tendencies. So I guess it depends what distinction you're trying to make. People wanna throw the word around so freely without comprehending that we all have, and society inherently is narcissistic in nature rn.
True narcissists aren’t as common as we think.
We all have some narcissistic traits and some people lean into them more than others whether it’s subconsciously or not.
Someone who can feel sympathy for others and doesn't feel bad about the things they did to hurt people... Always saying comments to belittle other while uplifting themselves..And also.. they talk a lot about themselves is a clear giveaway for a first interaction .. Hence my in laws..
A narcissistic personality disorder is usually quite abusive towards the people around them, don't feel remorse for their actions, deflect blame, and are pathologically self-centered. NPDs all show certain behaviors consistently throughout their life.
There are other people you wouldn't clinically diagnose that exhibit narcissistic traits. You would colloquially call them narcissists, but a personality disorder is at another level. Everyone displays narc traits to a degree, some more than others
Self centered. It's all about the Self. You're mate is divulging plans for their bday yours comes first so you make that the priority and disregard planning theirs at all. Cause yours comes first.
You executed an ideal. They didn't appreciate what you did cause it wasn't about them you just wanted assurance that you're the best. Instead of learning what they like or dislike, it's all about your effort, and how your unappreciated even if you try.
They have an issue or dilemma. You can relate, then choose to hijack their conversation with an irrelevant problem of your own that you're not dealing with, yet here you are taking control of the scenario. To be clear. Your problem is old news. Irrelevant. Done with. However just cause it's relatable now it's the topic.
Everything goes back to them. If they're not involved why are we addressing it? That's narcissism.
People relate for empathetic reason then soothe another after assuring THEM that they understand the situation, as well what their dealing with.
Love bombing. Inability to take accountability. Breadcrumbing. Victim complex. Grandiose promises they always break. Everything is always your fault. Manipulating you for more. Never giving or reciprocating and always taking.
Not actually, but if somebody tries to overuse psych buzzwords like “projecting” or “gaslighting” they usually are trying to devalue the term because they do it themselves. Had a narcissist ex tell me to “stop projecting” when I pointed out her behavior, meanwhile I was just a board for her to project all her insecurities onto.
The easiest way to tell is they will NEVER take responsibility or accountability for anything. Not even tiny things. When caught red handed they will double down on their lies, they will not absolutely will not come clean no matter how much pressure is put on. The second biggest way to tell is your own reaction to them when they're not around. You'll be very hurt and sick inside but may love them more than anything in the world.
I've been with narcs/abusers and regardless of the label, I just ask myself now, are they being abusive? If yes then drop them from my life.
With that said, there are signs of both: Love bombing and moving fast when you just met. Mirroring you, ie, acting like they like everything you do. Making snide comments about you. Biggest indicator is someone being upset if you call out their behavior. If they go quiet (stonewalling) or flip out or turn things on you, lie, or tell you you're imagining things or it's not what it seems (gaslighting), you might have a narc.
It just shows they're incapable of taking any criticism which is hallmark trait. I encourage you to look at r/narcissisticabuse as that has a lot of examples.
When you’re trying to figure out if someone is genuinely a narcissist, it’s all about looking at their patterns, not just isolated incidents. A true narcissist has this overblown sense of self. They don’t just think they’re great - they believe they’re superior to everyone else and deserve special treatment. This isn’t just confidence. It’s an unshakeable belief in their own greatness, even if they haven’t done anything to earn it.
They need constant admiration. I’m not talking about just wanting a compliment here and there. They crave validation like a drug. When they don’t get it, they swing from anger to deep insecurity. They need to be the center of attention, always.
Then there’s the lack of empathy. They can’t put themselves in someone else’s shoes. It’s not just being inconsiderate, they genuinely can’t connect with or care about others’ feelings. There’s a wall between them and real human connection.
Another thing to watch for is how they treat people. Narcissists see relationships as transactions. People are tools to be used and then tossed aside when they’re no longer useful. This isn’t obvious at first, but over time, you’ll see the pattern.
They’re also insanely jealous and envious. Even if they act like they’re on top of the world, underneath, they’re constantly comparing themselves to others and feeling envious. This drives them to undermine or belittle others just to keep their inflated self-image intact.
So, if you’re looking back at your ex and these traits are ringing true, you’re probably dealing with a narcissist. But don’t just throw the label around because they hurt you. Look for these consistent, damaging patterns in how they interact with the world and others.
Trust your gut and what you observed. If these behaviors were there, it’s not just a buzzword - it’s a reality you had to live with. Stay strong and keep pushing forward.
This comment and the thread thereafter I making me feel man.. I wascin a 10 year long relationship that started when I was 15 and he was 21...we had a baby 2 weeks after my 20th birthday.....and the person I was before that relationship and the person I am now (27f)......is a sad excuse for who I use to be before that relationship....I feel used up washed out and spit up....with a child, I love my baby, they share the same birthday...(my daughter and her dad)....but I was never able to trust him, he always made every problem that arises MY fault...like anytime there was a problem it was my fault....of course...I wasn't doing enough or working hard enough...or I was looking to deep into things that weren't there...or I was the only one that had a problem cuz he would spin every problem to everybody he knew, (which by that point everyone he knew was everyone I knew....cuz I moved an hour away from my life. Friends and family to live with him) that I was the problem...and he was the victim...I was the aggressor not him....and so everybody in our circle thought that I was the problem.......not him....and I felt do Isolated that even when I told my parents or family about what was going on they'd tell me that I need to come home but his parents friends and family would tell me I had a good thing going and I need to fix this cuz I shouldn't have acted that way....which far outnumbered my parents....and especially in my daily routine these people were around more than my parents...so I always tried to make it better like it was my fault.....I'm now a shell of the person I was...I'm working on it everyday. It's been 2 years since the end of it...but I still struggle staying away from him...if I'm being honest. So please....if you have to question...just go. Before it makes you feel like you can't go or you'll be nothing without.
I can completely relate. I’m in the same boat. I question myself all the time. Being in a relationship with a narc is a total mind fuck. I don’t even recognize who i am anymore. I never thought I would let myself get treated like I do. I always thought I was strong enough that if I were put in a toxic relationship that I would turn around and walk away. But here I am….still. Ugh
THINGS YOU GET IN A
RELATIONSHIP WITH A NARCISSIST:
• Double standards
• Their way or the highway
• Never-ending unresolved conflict
• Circular arguments
• Zero consideration for you
• Zero collaboration with you
• Silent treatment and avoidance
• Gaslighting
• Chronic lying and dishonesty
• Depression and anxiety
• Devaluation
• Blame for all their problems
• Shame
• Crazy
This was copied from threads on ig but I know after I read them all I knew I didn’t miss any of it..
They see anyone who isn’t ruthless as weak, they constantly need to be in control and if they’re not they think you’re scheming something, shamelessly manipulative, impossible for them to see your POV because they lack empathy so they don’t understand why you don’t get their “logic”, greedy, entitled. The end always justifies the means with narcs. They’re unapologetic.
Very easy test for this actually:
Have they ever admitted to being wrong? Can they admit to being wrong?
If the answer is no, they're probably a narc.
If they have, no matter how selfish or toxic they might otherwise be, they aren't a narc
It's not possible to get an actual diagnosis in every situation where it might be useful.
That's why you need to look for red flags and keep track of things. If someone is presenting a bunch of red flags and you choose to ignore it, you'll have no one to blame but yourself.
I recently watched some of Ali Abulaban’s trial (TikTok ‘star’ who murdered his estranged wife and her friend after years of abuse towards her) and my god.. this guy has to be the definition of a narcissism. I’ve seen traits of it in other people before, but this douchecanoe is the caricature of a textbook narcissist. Watch like any 30 seconds of his cross examination with the prosecutor and you’ll see what I mean.
Everyone has narcissistic tendencies. Real narcissists will purposely play mind games, pathological lying, act different in front of others and they are unfaithful and put you down. grandiosity, entitlement, attention-seeking, manipulation, and lack of empathy are the major signs of a narcissist.
They are also aggressive and can be violent. A lot of them also have some sort of addiction but thats a whole other topic really.
I just got out of a narcissistic relationship with trauma bonding and it's tough but he definitely textbook. I do of women saying their ex was narcissistic but really they are which why they blame and project.
True diagnosis of narcissistic personality is rare. That doesn’t mean a person isn’t being narcissistic in behavior. Surviving life is dependent on development of behaviors that work to fulfill oneself. Toxic or not. Behavior is a learned survival skill. The label narcissist is used. Probably correct in identifying behaviors. The rest is just common sense. Which is truly uncommon in my opinion
Ghetto good book on it because it's much more complicated than just being self-centered. I'm in the middle of the divorce from a woman that is what's called a covert narcissist. It's very different because they don't present like the grandstanding asshole you think. All narcissists have very low self-esteem, but typical narcissists put up the front that you see to hide it. Covert narcissist have a lot of the same tendencies, manipulation, playing the victim, redirecting your emotions, etc. But they can normally look like people that are very unsure of themselves.
I just finished reading a book called " should I stay or should I go" that's about figuring out if you're in a relationship with a narcissist. If you're like me, this book was like the author was looking in the window of my relationship for 20 years
Some people aren’t diagnosed. Or are BPD also.
Narcissism is someone who says something, but subtly does something else. It’s not always black and white. They give you a lot at first, and slowly steadily start taking little things from you. You get stuck on how much they gave you, and start to feel like because they are taking something tiny from you, you must be the problem. So, you also start to self-gaslight. Then one day bam. They show their real colours. But because you started gaslighting yourself, you lost your sense of self. So that leaves you empty, because you no longer have them, but you also lost yourself. You become indeed a victim of narcissism, and nothing could’ve prepared you for that. You can ask all the questions, because they are so prepared for it, they have all the believable answers.
The only protection is: know yourself, and leave as soon as something feels off. You’ll know the difference. I wish I’d known to listen to my guts.
When in reality, that was their plan all along. They may not even realise they are a narcissist btw. Sometimes when they heal - they think they made a mistake. But they don’t know how deep their wounds cut. and it has NOTHING to do with the other person. They cannot comprehend the damage they’ve caused.
Sorry, but it is not a buzzword and I wish this rumor would stop. It is getting the attention it needs to help end the life-altering trauma it causes.
Other things in history were also considered “buzz words” when they got to be uncomfortable and held certain abusers accountable for their actions. Like sexual harassment, for example. It does take years for these things to settle in as serious and not some passing phase of society.
I do think more education is still needed to end the victim blaming that is currently occurring when someone has experienced pervasive and repeated narcissistic abuse from someone.
I was questioning my reality with someone but the internet delivered.
A Facebook group of women on dating sites checking if the man they are with is ok dished the dirt and then said me when his girlfriend at the time put up an anonymous question.
So many comments about his love bombing and lies, addictions and discarding. I felt seen.
His girlfriend dumped his arse - but showed him
The screen shots and landed the women in the shit- which is dodgy considering he’s a severe addict and been in prison for DV. She was a victim on DV herself in her past relationship.
He retaliated - nothing criminal but still not cool. He thinks he’s the victim.
I was just looking this up a couple of days ago - my mom agrees with my diagnosis of my brother. There is a section about patient propensity to reject the diagnosis and that being a trait consistent with NPD
DSM-5
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) describes NPD as possessing at least five of the following nine criteria.
A grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Believing that they are "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Requiring excessive admiration
A sense of entitlement (unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations)
Being interpersonally exploitative (taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends)
Lacking empathy (unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others)
Often being envious of others or believing that others are envious of them
Showing arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Its thrown out there too much. And most people have atleast some of the traits of some narcissism in them.
Its also easy to call someone something when they are shoved into a psychological box of agony and pain for so long that they respond.
There are people who display traits. But are not "true" narcs. While there are textbook narcs.
Example. Theres not a single 100/100 honest human being out there. Not a one. Every person lies.
Theres also rarely a time when everyone reacts perfectly well to every situation they are ever put in.
And every person has been the villain or "crazy" in someone elses memory even if it wasnt intentional because chances are that person only has their perception of the event to tell.
I have met women who claimed their ex was narcissistic. And yet early on displayed many of the traits. And it made me wonder "who was the crazy one."
Theres also exes of women who certainly went a bit crazy. But after a relationship with the woman. I can DEFINITELY see how her not so great habits or traits or her own contributions to their relationship PUSHED the other person into a "crazier" role they might not have gone toward.
People also forget that high degrees of stress from multiple angles can compress and crack a person like a walnut.
I learned to stop taking people 100 at their word that its strictly facts i am getting from them regarding a story. But i am merely getting what they remember it as.
And sure. The other sides might recall a SIMILAR story. But there will always be new things brought to light.
Like heres a pro tip. Most people are ENTIRELY unaware of what they world or their partner is seeing when argueing. Try it in front of a mirror. And remember thats what THEY are seeing from you. How would you respond?
Coming from someone who was with a covert narc for 2.5 years and now live with literal brain damage from the gaslighting,
It’s in their eyes.
His eyes were green, but during an argument, when he could see me getting disoriented and upset, they would turn almost black. Tbh, the color wasn’t what made them scary, it was the hollowness. And then he would smile, and sometimes start laughing and make fun of me for being so confused. I can literally still see it.
Also, starting a horrible argument or starting some kind of issue while you’re doing something important. Every single event I had, especially vacations, he would either breakup w me, ghost me, or block me. One time, I went to Disney with my family, & I was standing in line for the very first ride when he sent me pics of him self harming & said he was going to the ER and I didn’t hear from him for days. I cried all day walking around the mf magic kingdom.
He was mandated to go to therapy after that. He went once and called me after to say how horrible it and she’d made everything was his fault. Hmmm.
I’ve suppressed most of our relationship, but, over the years, I’ll randomly remember something that was absolutely horrible.
S/O to the military deploying him to South Korea. Lol Idk how else I would’ve escaped that one.
Anyway, that was the first, and last, person I’ll date in the military. Sry to generalize, but whew the trauma.
To actually know they are narcissists, they must show a pervasive, consistent pattern in every corner of their life of narcissitic behavior.
Narcissism will plague all their relationships, not just their romantic ones, because they are high conflict. Sure, a narcissist can have relationships of all kinds, and everybody might just love them, but those relationships tend to be pretty superficial, even if they are longterm. My ex always had problems with friends, family members, coworkers and bosses, and all his past romantic partners were the problem (and I have joined that club). They will have a consistent pattern of conflict with others (for which they are never to blame).
Narcissists are entitled. Not just with their romantic partners but with everyone. Sure, they may have learned social mores and norms and can pretend to understand they aren't entitled to things that aren't theirs, but ultimately they believe they are entitled. Stealing, vandalism, SA, parasitic lifestyles, fraud. You name it. If you suspect someone is a narcissist in your life then they take a lot of your time and energy, because they are entitled to it. My ex once told me he believed God was real because he stole a kids bike and when the kids dad knocked on his door to get it back my ex prayed to God the dad wouldn't find it, and he didn't so my ex believed in God because "God" essentially allowed him to break the first commandment and wrong an innocent child. When I pointed this out, he did not understand why his logic was flawed.
Narcissists are victims. They will do 100 horrible things to you and if you react badly once they guilt trip you in perpetuity. They DARVO in every conflict. They are consistent victims, at work, in school, in their social circles, in their relationships, in their families. Everyone does wrong by them, everyone wrongs them, and this is often used as an excuse to wrong others.
Narcissists don't seem to believe in an objective reality. Everything is up for debate. There is no reality where they are to blame. They have a consistent pattern of bending reality through gaslighting, lying, or delusion.
Narcissists are chameleons, where they don't seem to have a consustent self. They change to mirror different groups. My ex was a liberal around me and a right winger around his friends and an evangelical around his mom and an Atheist around a different group of friends.
Narcissists are h8ghly manipulative. Love bombing and people pleasing is manipulation they use to lure people in and they can be very charming. Then it's coercion, extortion, guilt tripping, obligating others from there.
Narcissists emotionally regulate by externally processing their feelings through projection and require a metric fuck ton of external validation in return. So basically a narcissist will dump all their shitty feelings they have about themselves into their enmeshed partner and then their enmeshed partner must pump positive feelings back towards them in return.
You'll have very specific examples of behavior that seem actually literally insane and not just an arrogant person. I know a few narcissists that have claimed others were, and in those cases they had very generic nonspecific comments and were ultimately projecting.
You do hours and hours of intense research and going over moments from your relationship to analyze. Start with the podcasts the narcissists code and raw motivations.
I think I can answer that but it isn't something easy to see until you get to a deep and dark place with them.
Simply put, there isn't a core there. It's reality altering when you really see this. The "personality" is a quilt made of pieces picked up from others. Not the same as thinking someone is awesome and wanting to try and be a bit more like them. It's straight stolen and added to the mask. By the time I was able to *mostly* get away from my ex, more than half of the person he shows to ppl was stolen from me. Like I was a philosophy major and have always studied psychology as well, just not officially in school. He now talks like he's this wise individual and quotes me (not bc he learned the theories or read the books, he doesn't actually understand the concepts if you started asking questions) but I regret all that I "taught" him bc it's going to make his manipulation for future victims even harder to figure their way out of.
The empathy may feel real to you but does the person consistently see what's going on for others around them? They don't have to be cruel to show a lack of empathy but, ex. does it even occur that the neighbor may have some difficult things going on in their life? Do they consistently act in a way that shows they have an understanding that their actions could be negatively affecting others? Ex. Hiking with friends and he would just walk off in a different direction deep in a forest with no cell reception and in a forest, state even, that none of us knew at all, so the rest of us would just be running to catch up bc if we got separated there would be no way to find each other. Literally no way. The rest of us would've been fine without him but in these types of circumstances, you leave no man behind and that's what we would've had to do if we didn't start running once we noticed.
Richard Grannon and the Little Shaman have the best info I've seen and I've been desperately researching for over a year trying to figure out wtf was going on. Sam Vatnin (sp?) was the only one that could give me the very specifics of the structure I was dealing with (doormat narcissist turns primary psychopath)
Really understanding and finding out that there is not a core there at all is the part though that I would say separates legit npd from assholes, toxic ppl, bpd, etc.
look for the main signs. 1) a narcissist has no empathy, they dont care about other peoples emotions. 2) a narcissist has a sense of entitlement, they think they deserve special treatment. 3) a relationship with a narcissist is gona be superficial. no emotional connection, no deep talks, dry. they only care abt superficial things like ur looks. 4) they take advantage of other people, cheat on them, use them for their own needs. 5) they have a huge ego, and think their more powerful or better than everyone else. source: i was in a 3 year relationship with a narcissist.
A 100% way to tell a narcissist apart from a normal person is that narcissist personalities usually do not have an imagination of their own and they usually like Digi man more than pokey man. They're out of this world, in other words! Like their s*** comes from the Moon!
A simple way is that they seem deathly I'll of taking any wrongdoing as everything is someone else's fault. If they can easily say sorry I screwed up without having to pull teeth on something mildly important then there's a high chance they aren't a narcissist
You shouldn't call anyone a narcissist unless they have been professionally diagnosed. This is one of the many things I learned in Psych class. It's an actual disorder, not a word to be thrown around because you hear everyone who doesn't understand what it is, using it. If you see a therapist, they may tell you a person shows narcissistic characteristics but ultimately they won't know until they or another professional diagnoses them personally.
If the person makes you feel insecure and neglected, they have some narcissistic traits - not exactly a diagnosed narcissist, but they have narcissistic traits. People who have solid empathy engage in “active listening” and are attentive to people’s needs. They’re reassuring and uplifting. You won’t feel insecure and neglected around them.
Narcissism and histrionic are disorders that look a lot like autism. They’re usually super easy to spot, they don’t benefit the person who has them. Think of Michael or Dwight from the office. Your evil manipulative ex that you couldn’t get over most likely was not like either of those two.
What I think gets labeled as narcissism too frequently is just common immature behavior. Kid does something they know they aren’t supposed to, they get caught, then they lie deflect rationalize whatever to get away with it. When an adult acts like this people call it narcissistic like they’re some brilliant manipulator but actually it’s just selfish childishness they haven’t grown out of.
1st) the fact that you’re actually searching for the truth of the matter and not blindly labeling without giving it a second thought is not only respectable, but more likely telling of who your ex is.
2) narcissistic traits include but are not limited to: gaslighting, manipulation, avoiding taking responsibility for their actions or acknowledgement *at all costs* (can even go as far as to fake heart attacks but not a qualifying example), invalidation, self absorption, giving with the intention of receiving, and aggression when they sense they are losing their grip of control over you
When they have absolutely no remorse and terrorize you for fun. Alienate you from friends and family. Give you lots of sex, then take it away and then tell you that you’re a sex addicted when you have to beg for it lol. That was wild. Hurt you aggressively emotionally and physically until you feel like nothing. There’s always a last straw though, for the normal empathetic person. Ruin everything for you. Every holiday… family function. Unless it’s about them. Cheat on you left and right, but make you feel crazy when you catch them. Record you when you’re breaking down crying.
It’s the utter lack of remorse and the weird glint they get in their eyes when they’ve brought you to your knees.
You can't 100%. Humans are complex and most people probably have traits associated with narcissists. People with egos might seems like "narcissists" for example, but that Doesn't mean they're full on narcissists'. Instead of trying to diagnose which you probably will not be able to, focus on whether that person is a good/caring person or just a decent person in general and has good morals.
In my personal experience, narcissists do not believe they are responsible for anything that they do to other people. Like, ever. Never, never, never. I'm talking to like, a ridiculous, Cartoon Villain extreme.
Have you seen the "Who Killed Hannibal?" meme? That is a narcissist in a (admittedly hilarious) nutshell. A narcissist could walk up to a stranger, shoot them in the street, and say, "I'm the real victim because my parents let me play violent video games."
If you have ever treated a person badly, and later felt real, personal guilt for it - not "Public Apology" posting for attention and sympathy on social media - you are not a narcissist.
My (41m) stbx (39f) seems to be an actual one. She spends countless hours at events trying to get the perfect selfie, she puts her own desires above everything else including our kids. She’s working and refuses to pay joint expenses since she won’t move out. Instead she uses me for a free ride and parties with her earrings, leaving me with the kids all the time. She avoids the crap out of me because she’s afraid to talk about what we’re going through. I’m also 90% sure she’s cheating on me. She has no accountability and any time I try to talk about our situation and what I need her to do becomes a fight because she takes everything as an attack.
Do they make everything about them find a way to make themselves the center of every conversation always somehow turn out to be the victim if so they're most likely a narcissist.
Good ol, narcissists! They never take responsibility for their own actions and point the finger and blame you for the reason of doing shitty things, so there for it’s your fault then they hold no guilt on their own conscious. Self-centered and selfish! BOOM you been diagnosed! I’m no doctor but I’ve lived with one for 20 years! Took me 14-15 years to figure it out though!
True narcissists are extremely rare, and you know pretty quickly, because it’s obvious. But many have an extremely self-centered outlook, which resembles narcissism, imho
There's really no way to be sure without a diagnosis. But it doesn't really matter. If someone is treating you badly, it's ok to cut them off whether or not they have a personality disorder.
Author of Rethinking Narcissism, Craig Malkin, has 3 things to look for at a minimum. The Three E's. Lack of Empathy, Over abundance of Entitlement, and Exploitative behavior.
Study up on high conflict personalities. There are a few flavors of them, of which narcissistic is one of them.
1. The WEB model: words/emotions/behaviors are generally at the extremes of the spectrum. A lot of all or nothing thinking tends to happen here.
2. Statistical prevalence: roughly 10% of the population falls into the high conflict bucket.
3. Combine these and you get The 90% Rule - essentially if 90% of people wouldn't do, say or feel the things this person is, it's likely they're a high conflict personality.
*note, people are still people. This doesn't necessarily mean rule someone out just because they're kind of intense. The verbiage of HCP is descriptive without being accusatory for the most part. Pay attention to patterns of thinking and behavior.
EVERYONE has narcissistic traits. Everyone. My father was diagnosed with NPD. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). I then spent 10 years with one. Yes, the word is WILDLY overused, but there is a huge difference between an actual Narcissist, versus an uncaring, self-absorbed, conceited asshole.
From my personal experience
Constantly talking about themselves
Having no real interest in you or what you say
They will meet you on thier own time with no regard for yours
Show up late on purpose so you have to wait for them
Compulsive liars
Just highly toxic bastards all around
No one should be diagnosing anyone unless they have the knowledge to do so. It actually pisses me off that this word is so over used. It’s my field of study. I see it like unqualified people saying someone has lung cancer because they cough a lot.
If someone treats you in a way you find unacceptable, it’s time to let them go. I see a lot of people who narcissistic traits call other people narcissists, which is one of the many reasons I am annoyed the word became mainstream.
Mother is most likely a narcissist. I've done some research and I've been in relationships with those who could almost be confused with narcissists. One pathological liar who struggled with empathy and one emotionally unavailable man.
It's easy to use the term for anyone who puts themselves first or shows extreme selfishness. For me, the line is best drawn on two things: empathy and control. Narcissists really struggle to empathize or just can't. Themselves and their pain is always more interesting, they're capable of dismissing or ignoring almost anything you may share with them. Or using it against you. They tend to live in delusions of persecution or grandeur as well so they will often compete for who had it worst rather than truly empathize with you. They also don't really listen or remember much of what you say which is a way they show they aren't connecting with you in a normal human way.
Control is the second thing. They create conflict to gain control, to gaslight you and make you doubt things. Often they are warping your reality to their own, those delusions of persecution and grandeur. If someone is learning things about you and using them against you, diminishing and ignoring your feelings and making you feel guilty for feeling them, giving you affection as you do what they want and flying into a rage when they don't, you may have a narcissist on your hands. The worst thing about this control part is you can eventually lose sight of reality and get sucked into theirs.
Lack of empathy for others is probably the biggest sign that someone is a dark triad type of person. Does this person excuse their abuse or manipulation of others? Does this person dismiss other people’s pain while they act as if their problems are the end of the world? Do they make statements that imply that they know what is best for everyone around them?
I can help with that.
1. List your 5 biggest weaknesses whenever it comes to a romantic relationship.
2. List your 5 biggest weaknesses whenever it comes to normal/platonic relationships.
3. List 5 things you did to or with your ex that, if in his or her shoes, you wouldn’t be happy.
4. Ask yourself one big question. Would anyone be lucky to have you, THEY, just can’t see your worth. Does it resonate? If not, you ain’t the narc. Big Narc statement.
5. Admit you have problems and address them.
The first one may depend on how well you know yourself.
If you can’t do the second one…you are more narcissistic than you hope.
Number 3 same as number 2 except sexual attachment intensifies narcissistic traits.
Number 4 if you catch yourself saying this, get humble.
Good thing is, it is changeable. 😉
Manipulation, gas lightning, attempting to make you doubt your reality, possessiveness, they may have angry outbursts, they often project a false persona into the public and abuse those closest to them behind closed doors, cheating, verbal/physical abuse, name calling, attempting to guilt trip.
These are a bunch there are many more. Not all narcs will have all of these. There are different types of narcs. Grandiose, covert, communal, malignant.
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter if the person is a narc. It’s basically just an expression of a lot of these behaviors. If you notice these behaviors, don’t break yourself trying to diagnose the person like you actually HAVE to know.
You know enough, they have those behaviors, who cares what you call em. Get em out of your bubble.
You’ll know when it’s bad. It’s hard though because romantic relationships can get bad, but that’s because immaturity, naivety, expectations, possession, control, mostly because of outside factors. It can bring out the worst in people. But a narcissist, comes from the inside, will display traits, manipulate situations, and cause overall dread even if they’re in a great mood. Especially if they are. It is draining, and it feels a bit like fighting brainwashing, dealing with one. A lot of conditions and entitlement and talk and a lot of compensation and justification thrown in, under the guise of “self awareness” and care. Some really aren’t aware though. They just believe they’re owed things, it’s hard to describe the extent and gall because I can’t understand it. But you feel it and it’s scary what they can do, especially when you watch them charm other people into doing extensive work for them for almost no compensation or whatever else. Its lies are very deeply ingrained in their brain, that they can do anything to get what they want and push people’s boundaries and be the exception in any case. It can be hard to tell, and in the end, if somebody is even displaying just traits of narcissism, stay away. Not worth it to figure out and try to change them
A LOT of narcissists tend to lack emotion and empathy for others. In fact, most crime documentaries will note the criminal has narcissistic tendencies.
Tik tok diagnosed my family as narcissist. But the more i learn about it, it seems to be a manifestation of trauma from their own upbringing. So to truly know you would have to investigate who raised them?
Going out of their way to tell everyone how everyone in their past was a narcissist. Avoid people who don’t have anything good to say about anyone else
“NPD is diagnostically defined in the DSM-5 (APA 2013; pages 669-672) as a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy, with interpersonal entitlement, exploitiveness, arrogance, and envy.”
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/npd-provider-guide
Those criteria manifest differently from person to person.
He is sincerely convinced that his abuse is justified, that the people he hurts deserve it. I have only become sure he's pathological since I left. When we were together, I still fed his ego somewhat and he wasnt quute THIS awful. When we split, he stopped getting that and became a different person toward me. We have a child together, and our son (6) has been acting out at school. But my ex just denies our son has any issues. He works against the school because he genuinely seems to be insulted by the mere suggestion that our son is not perfect. That's because he cannot separate himself from our son. Our son is acting out because he's battling his dad for autonomy, but doesn't know it yet.
Not only does he make up things that I did or said, they actually become true in his mind. They have to become true, because his mind cannot allow him to see himself as the bad guy. Once they become true in his mind, he's delusional and he wont be convinced otherwise. So conversations are not productive, he wants me to "admit" that I did all these things.
He's so convinced that Im the problem, he tells health providers and even CPS things that make him sound unhinged. He has no idea Ive been working with these systems to get help for me and my son. Once he finds out, he will only view it as further evidence that Im "evil".
He's never actual been physically violent towards me, but as time goes on his rage towards me seems to be increasing. This makes me feel afraid for my physical safety, even though there's not much indication that its a risk. Someone who wasnt pathological would have a decrease in rage over time, they would strive for their own well-being eventually, but he does not.
Personality disorders are self-destructive, meaning its not a sustainable way to be long-term. So the longer you know someone, the more you can see the evidence of NPD or BPD. Its very debilitating. They need so much help and love but cannot receive it in healthy ways.
How they treat others is the key sign. Waitresses, the homeless, kids, family, the elderly. If they show no empathy to anyone and make all decisions on what benefits them, that’s a good sign you shouldn’t pair up. Lack of deep long term friendships are often evidence of this.
easier to just say that they have some narcissistic traits, really no way to know for sure unless they’re diagnosed and most won’t go through that process
very fair. how would i know if i’m really the narcissist and just projecting?
i wonder this a lot, and therapy helps. we talk through the reasons why i think i might be, and i am reassured that if i was, i wouldn’t actually care about asking these questions. every time i get in one of these mental states where i question everything and wonder if i was making shit up, i’ll also take a bunch of “am i a narcissist” quizzes on the internet. obviously those cannot diagnose me, but when i can’t see my therapist, it’s helpful. i have this intense fear of being one because i’ve put myself in too many relationships where i was questioning my reality, so i have told myself i must be the problem.
heavy on the questioning reality
my most recent bout with this happened when a former friend group accused me of cyberbullying/refusing to speak to an ex (even have screenshots to prove i have offered multiple times to speak to said ex) and not being able to hold myself accountable for my actions. i worked on an apology for the situations mentioned in that accusation for a whole day (even brought it to an emergency therapy session to discuss before sending), and i meant every word. my therapist said that most people wouldn’t even bother to put as much time and effort. the apology was read and never responded to (which i expected), but the whole thing made me question if i’m actually a narcissist all over again.
ooooof I've been in the same goddamn spot. lost entire friend groups because they suddenly turned on me with no mercy, usually for the crime of having one (1) differing opinion on something that doesn't really matter. it took me a really long time to realize and fully understand that the problem was with them, not me
i completely understand this
Don’t know if they’re narcissists or not, but those sound like toxic people that you’re better off without. The ability to disagree agreeably is vital to any relationship, be it friend, family, romantic partner, or even just coworker or acquaintance.
Ask yourself who you learned that from and why it concerns you. And if you think your behaviors make other people ENJOY or TOLERATE your existence. That will help you find answers. My mom and grandma suffer from narcissistic personality disorder and some bpd, grandmother is also histrionic so I had to do a lot of “flea shedding” in order to save myself from their curse. Flea shedding means unlearning toxic behaviors from proximity to a narcissist
I feel the learned behaviors, im a crippling people pleaser and had to tell myself that I am a real person and its a lot harder than it may sound, even just rejecting little things like hanging around people who just want to be near me because I always want to accomodate like im compensating for being me. If you are anything like me, every second is rejection anxiety in a group. I am teaching myself to put myself first instead of others and being fine with being more reserved and solid on my beliefs. I tell myself “I am a human being and as valuable as everyone else, noone should make me feel like I need to reduce my presence or feel like I dont belong.
and this is where it’s difficult because the people who have hurt me the most in life are self-proclaimed people pleasers, which also make me wonder if it’s me
people like being people pleasers because of the power. self proclaimed people pleasers are scary because why do they need to tell you how good of a person they are (not this person maybe but the ones who go on to you about how much they will be there for you because they are there for everybody like a princess Carolyn so then theres finally a favour of you owing them something because they lack communication skills and there is always an angle)
this is so real. thank you for this comment! going in my journal!
I went though this when I was hit with a narc relationship. I read everything I could find in it because my whole world was tuned upside down. My therapist said I wouldn't even be worried about it if I was, I'd just think it was my divine right to screw ppl over
Yes. People might have a lack of self awareness, or avoidant tendencies but those are different from narcissism.
hope you’re doing okay in your healing process ❤️
Way better, you'll get better too. I'm sorry you went through it.
that’s what mine says too lol
“What if I’m a narcissist?” Is a commonly asked question by people who are definitely not narcissists! It’s normal to take on narcissistic traits as a survival mechanism but a true narc wouldn’t care
ok this is a really interesting point. i behaved very narcissistically during and after my relationship with him because i felt very hurt. so it has me questioning if i am and never knew it. but i also don’t know if it was just trying to cope with how much he hurt me
Like p much everyone else said, you really wouldn't be questioning it.. you would just do the things. Trauma can make you do bad things, and everyone can have narc traits what matters is how you move forward and prevent these things. Narcs don't do that work most of the time. I can't say all, I don't have that knowledge.
Narcissists can question if they’re narcissists lmao this is a false idea. While it’s not as common for them to be self aware and such mine once asked me if I thought he was. At the time I don’t believe I had an answer or was scared to answer
True narcissists aren't just demons that believe their existence is to make others suffer. They definitely are capable of introspection.
They are capable of introspection, but typically their self awareness has massive blind spots and their limited empathy prevents them from truly understanding the damage they cause. I’ve been married to a covert narcissist for 12 years.
Ugh the coverts are the worst!
I’m working on an exit strategy and grey rocking.
That question likely wouldn’t enter your mind if you were actually a narcissist
Ehh it’s still possible, just quite unlikely
Yeah you aren’t the narcissist. The fact you wondered if it’s you almost confirms you are not. Narcissists do not self reflect because they are full of shame (their gross acts so they usually confabulate and their stories are always half lies and half true… the lie is that they somehow are always the good guys in the story). So yeah you wondering if you are 100 percent negates that possibility
1. Are you capable of arguing the pov of the other person in a meaningful way? 2. Do you have reasonable expectations for how other people will enforce boundaries? 3. Do you have reasonable expectations for how others should treat you? 4. Are you capable of taking full accountability without somehow minimizing the impact?
Do you feel this way with other people or just with your ex? Do you only question your reality that involves your ex? It's possible that your ex was one, and you think you are one because that's something narcissists like to do. Also, remember having narcissistic traits doesn't make you a narcissist. It's a spectrum. To be a narcissist, you have to be at the other end of it.
i never wondered until after my ex hurt me then i read up on narcissist abuse. then i realized i obsess over my looks and im very pessimistic which are narcissistic traits
I'm not an expert but you probably need a lot more than 2 traits to be a narcissist.
Actual narcissists are ironically less likely to be diagnosed formally.
exactly
Every human being has narcissistic traits.. you do, I do, the op does... the way to know if you are one is to talk to a therapist. Unless the other person is one in recovery... and they tell you... then you will never actually know.
I grew up with a narcissistic father, and now I know the traits. But I intuitively knew he was one way before I studied Psychology.
Signs: - acts entitled or arrogant and seems to have a superiority complex - selfish and manipulative - ignores boundaries - gaslights (makes you question your reality) - seems to lack empathy or any real compassion for others - a little too into drama and/or displays attention-seeking behaviors - *makes you feel like you have to walk on eggshells (aka they make you feel uncomfortable) *this is the key sign. Listen to your body.
It’s like you are describing my ex husband.
The problem I have with the way people use “gaslighting” is that the person who accuses you of gaslighting is assuming they are correct. Some cases are easy, like “I saw you at the mall.” If you actually saw them and they deny, ok, gaslighting. But if they say “you said X” and I reply “I didn’t say that” there is a whole world of interpretation. Perhaps the listener misunderstood, or their emotions are clouding the way they heard it. Also possible that I actually said “X” but I did not intend the way it came out, so I don’t recall expressing that sentiment. In those cases, I don’t think it’s gaslighting. As for “they make you feel like you are walking on eggshells,” certainly it can be the other persons behavior, but if you feel like you are walking on eggshells, it’s also possible that you are overreacting, are anxious or a whole host of other things that have more to do with you than the other person.
My gf called me the other day SCREAMING AT ME that she hates me bc I sent her a few snaps and deleted them. (I was gunna take her on a date but she was already being crazy... I realized I autopiloted the invite to go on a date to make her feel better, which just reinforces the bad behavior, right? So I deleted it.) She called me 2x more screaming at me, I'm in the shower, so I hang up and block her. When I told her she can't call me and scream at me, she said it wasn't her.... That's pretty much it I know she's a narc now but idk I guess I'm such a sociopath that I want to try to help her by being her Daddy. Sex is alright but I guess I should be worried she's gunna cut my dick off in my sleep...
Haha wow, now THAT is extreme! My wife has in the past accused me of gaslighting her bc I disagreed about how an argument we had had started. She said I started it by doing X and I said, no you started it by doing Y. So she said I was gaslighting her, which is a bullshit way of honestly manipulating me by implying that if I don’t agree with her memory on everything, I am gaslighting her. Sigh…social media pop psychology is making relationships worse
Well said, just because someone disagrees with you it doesn’t mean they are gaslighting you
This is in no way a good list to go by. I’d suggest reading something APA on narcissistic traits or the criteria for NPD. This kind of comment is what gets people falsely accusing others of narcissism and isn’t helpful.
I have to agree with this 100%. The list of traits you find everywhere are far too simplified for something so very complicated. Plus everyone shows one or 2 traits from time to time & there's also a ton of overlap with other disorders/ mental hiccups that may or may not be as outwardly destructive. Many ppl are seeing things that they don't fully understand yet are quick to label based on the trend of "awareness". Narcs are much harder to spot than ppl realize because they spend their whole lives perfecting hiding their traits, pretending to be someone they're not which can even vary depending on the person or group they're talking to. Once you get to see behind the mask of a narc (which really is controlled by them & how they feel), the only thing about them that makes any sense is the fact that nothing makes sense. Everything about them is a walking contradiction that you won't get to see unless you've been around them long enough to be ae to spot the consistent inconsistencies & patrerns & they've also chosen you as a target for whatever reason. You could be sitting next to a narc every day for 10 yrs & never freaking know what they are.
You probably won't know for sure unless they tell you (and sometimes they do tell you). I go by extreme behaviors. If someone seems to care only about their success, looks, possessions, etc and doesn't seem to have much empathy for anyone else without there being an obvious cause, I usually start thinking they're probably a narc and it's time to move away. If they seem vindictive and have a fragile, but huge ego, I assume narc or at least high in narcissistic traits and get away. I've met several people who qualify for these and they might not have all been narcs, but they act so close to narcs that it's just safer to back away regardless because at the very least they're extremely toxic to your wellbeing. Unfortunately there's like 1-2 everywhere I go (especially at work). But most people fall within a relatively normal range of personality traits UNLESS you're in certain industries like upper echelons of organizations, Hollywood, education, etc. Those industries do naturally attract more narcs than an average place would.
Deep down all of the manipulation and bravado is a mask for DEEP and CRIPPLING insecurity. They will do absolutely ANYTHING to not be rejected, including rejecting others before they can be rejected. This includes avoiding self-criticisms. They lack the sense of self-worth required to consider that they are the ones that need to change or have issues to work on.
I was married to a Covert Narcissist for 14 years and the psychological abuse caused a nervous breakdown. His behaviour was so extreme especially towards the end that I didn’t trust my own intuition or reality. The gaslighting was nearly 24/7, he would even wake me at 3am to try and convince me I was the abusive party and he would support me if I stayed. He made me question everything about myself, what I had seen, heard, felt. I was a mute for the last few months and needed the help of victim support services to be able to trust myself enough to leave. A true narcissist will tell you themselves what they are and what they are doing if you listen well enough. It’s quite bizarre really. They are really good at acting, everything is with motive and they are good at poking you for reaction. They are highly selfish, without empathy and will literally run for the hills than admit any accountability. If someone is making you feel you are constantly questioning your own reality and intuition you are better off without them. Save yourself, the hole only gets deeper with a true Narc. Good luck x
This. My first wife absolutely has NPD but she is overt. And I knew after a while she was broken in a way that only she could fix but there was no way she was ever walking through that door. My second wife, was worse. A covert narcissist. I didn't even know that was a thing at the time. But what you said about the non stop gaslighting, the narrative rewrites painting you as abusive. And questioning your own reality to the point of just barely functioning in survival mode. When I actually started to challenge these things, when her mask had slipped off frequently enough towards the end I started to understand my intuition, this unrelenting feeling of never being at ease around her even while loving her more than anything in the world...had merit. That's when she went full discard and on a level that even after almost 2 years I still can't fully comprehend how a human being can be that void of emotion. Every single promise she ever made. The "I would never do this" or "this would never happen to us" promises over our 11+ years together. It's Like she had a fucking checklist of every fear, insecurity or painful experience I'd ever shared with her and she was hell bent on making them a reality. Which she absolutely did. I had already been in therapy for a couple years before she left because of course, she convinced me I was the crazy one. But during and after my therapist helped me piece it all together. I remember she sent me a checklist of 30 behaviors you can experience with a female covert narcissistic and I swear on my life and my kids lives... She checked off 28 out of 30. I'm not even where I would consider myself fully healed but I'm so far beyond it at this point, been no contact now for over 9 months. The fucked up part: she knows. She would talk about how broken she was. How selfish she was. How she knows there's something wrong with her and she needs to "go deep" to fix it. But she certainly never said that around anyone but me. Something I didn't put together until afterwards. That no one but me was hearing that side, they were hearing how terrible I was. I almost killed myself in the middle of all of it. Not something I'm proud of but that's how fucked up I was at one point. Now: I'm off all the meds I now know I would have never needed in the first place without her being in the picture. No anxiety. No panic attacks. No irrational mood swings. Nothing. I still have bad days but they are more than manageable. I'm genuinely very sorry you had to experience anything like that. When I see posts like yours, my heart breaks because unless someone has been in your shoes they have no idea how hopeless, debilitating and horrible experiencing something like that is. I hope you see nothing but brighter days from here on out. ♥️
This link contains the most recent DSM guidelines, which direct clinicians to diagnose using a combination of a dimensional model and the list of traits that's always floating around. https://www.mind-diagnostics.org/blog/narcissistic-personality/narcissistic-personality-disorder-dsm-5-criteria-and-treatment-options You'll notice that the dimensional part (the first section that talks about self functioning, interpersonal functioning, and antagonistic traits) is less obvious from observing a person. One way of describing NPD is that people with this disorder lack realistic self esteem and are often seeking validation/a self esteem boost from others. They have an impaired sense of their own identity (they use others to regulate self esteem and/or are excessively attuned to what others value rather than setting their own goals), they have challenges relating to others (challenges empathizing and forming deep relationships), and have antagonistic traits (they have high levels of entitlement and seek attention in a way that goes far beyond the average person). Again, these qualities are often difficult to see unless you are a clinician doing therapy, because therapists are asking the right questions and carefully analyzing the answers. I think that the popular hubbub over narcissism is describing three different things: clinically diagnosable NPD, subclinical strongly narcissistic traits/behaviors that cause others distress, and generically toxic people. So I think that when people use the label narcissist, a lot of them are really saying that they felt used or seriously disrespected, or someone presented themselves in a false way initially. The important question to ask is: was this person's behavior acceptable? Do I want to be treated this way? Also, a diagnosis is never what causes abusive behaviors. People choose to act in abusive ways; having a diagnosis is no excuse.
i love this. i do feel like sometimes people diagnose others with disorders when they feel slighted so that was why i was trying to avoid diagnosing my ex as i’m not a clinician. i am, however, trying to figure out if what he did was narcissistic abuse so i can put a name to it and hopefully heal from it
It's tricky, because on the one hand I do think many people use the term narcissist in a way that's almost meaningless, as it has no connection to the diagnostic category that psychologists have researched and theorized about. I.e., someone says "he was mean to me---NARCISSIST!" On the other hand, I think awareness if the term gives people who have experienced a bewildering and devastating relationship pattern a name for it and a way to talk about what happened. Personality disorders are only supposed to be diagnosed when an individual experiences distress in multiple domains of life, such as work, romance, and friendship. NPD case studies in research journals typically depict people who are really struggling. As a contrast, someone who is successful at work, carries on successful (albeit possibly shallow) friendships, but is abusive toward a romantic partner would at most qualify for a high functioning personality disorder due to lack of impairment in multiple domains. Someone can leave a trail of destruction in their wake, but if it doesn't impact their own life, the DSM directs clinicians not to make a diagnosis (though it's always possible that some clinicians would chose to make the diagnosis anyways). So I actually think a lot of what people on the web are talking about is a subclinical manifestation of traits and behaviors of narcissism. I've found this helpful in my own life, not to slap a diagnostic label on someone, but to recognize and better understand a behavioral pattern from the literature. For example, I've run into a few people who seemed offended and even hurt when I had successes or got any amount of attention from someone, and they worked to undermine me. Their reactions felt bizarrely out of proportion with the facts of the situation, until I figured that they may have found my successes or bonds with others threats to self esteem. Knowledge is empowering.
Abuse is abuse is abuse. There's a power and control wheel that you can find online which helped me realize that it disnt matter what his behaviours or diagnosis were.... that was his to sort out. I was abused by someone who said he loved me. Full stop. Healing is required. Full stop. I feel like had I been able to say "well he had a personality disorder" would be me bargaining with myself that somehow it excused his behaviour. Poor him. That's how I know I wasn't the bad guy. Despite everything he did I still want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'd rather believe I was the bad guy cause I know I'm someone who would recognize destructive behaviours and do something about it I wish you healing.
I think a lot of people have narcissistic traits, so if somebody shows one, they are just automatically labeled. When you're not necessarily a narcissist unless you cover the spectrum majorly.
Everyone does. What makes someone a narcissist is the frequency and quantity of traits listed on the chart. But we all display the properties from the test to some degree.
So far, in my experience, every time I have dated someone that claims their ex was a narcissist I have unfortunately discovered they were most likely the narc in the previous relationship.
Just call them toxic or abusive. You can’t diagnose someone and they surely won’t go get a diagnosis themself
fair. i’m more trying to figure out if i suffered narcissistic abuse from him so i can get the right treatment. he really fucked me up
Describe your experiences to your therapist, and ask that specific question. Based upon the history you provide, the therapist SHOULD know the best treatment. It sounds like you've had a relationship with someone with the traits of a cluster b disorder. The name that goes on that disorder isn't really the important thing as far as you're concerned. It could be any level of any specific disorder in that cluster b group. It's a spectrum with overlapping symptoms. Whatever it is, it messed you up.
Read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft - it was a real eye opener for me. That being said, as many others have stated, you can’t diagnose him yourself but I agree with finding out about narcissistic “tendencies” or “behaviors.” We’re all a little narcissistic sometimes if you only go by one or two traits, but when they start piling up it becomes much clearer. Here’s a pdf to the book for free, the author simply wanted the knowledge to be out there for those of us who’ve suffered narcissistic abuse. Hope this helps ❤️ https://tu.tv/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that.pdf#page771
. You feel like you have to walk on egg shell with them . You always feel anxious about their reaction. . You feel loved with a very specific pattern: one day you feel love bombed, the following day, you don't know where to stand, and their actions makes you question everything. . You are in a relationship, but feel alone. They do not show up for you, when it matters. They isolate you. . They cut corner without consideration for others. . They feel entitled: what is yours, is theirs. What it theirs is theirs. They don't want to you have friends from the opposite sex, but they are "allowed to. Use how you feel when you are with them, as an accurate reference.
Talking with several therapists/ psychologists/ psychiatrists over the last year: they’ve all told me similar information that it’s like 1% of the population or less that actually fall into the true“narcissists” b-cluster diagnosis of narcissists. Most humans have a varied range of narcissistic and empathetic traits. It’s normal to have a fairly consistent balance of both throughout life. It’s more likely to e partner you are experiencing narcissism from maybe just exhibiting their childhood wounds and being exasperated by the relationship. The trick is learning to communicate and heal those wounds together
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One of my favorites is when they blame you for their choices. “If you weren’t a slob, I wouldn’t have to cheat!”
All of us can have narcisistic behaviors. Narcissists as a diagnosis or cronic dangerous levels are something else.
Google "narcissist traits", find a reputable health website, read the traits and see if it aligns with the person's actions or characteristics.
A lot of narrcisist behaviors resemble ordinary behaviors. For example, a belief that you're special and unique could be a person who's low in a personality trait called modesty. About a quarter of all people are that way. That's why it's not enough to say, "this person has a grandiose sense of self importance, they must be a narrcisist." No. You need a ton of narrcisisitic behaviors crammed together, which is why narrcisisit personality inventories exist. (And are easily found on Google )
It doesn’t matter what sort of personality the skew towards. We all have narcissistic traits and and there only a % of population of people who are actually diagnosed as narcissist in a medical sense. What matters is whether you are happy or not, if they respect your limits or not, if they are flexible or not etc. Let’s stop the social media diagnostic tool it’s not validated scientifically.
Watch Dr Ramani YouTube channel
Pathological inability to accept responsibility for their actions. Not just someone who won't but someone who physically can't. Someone who will make up wild outlandish explanations and even laugh because they know it's so ridiculous but physically won't be able to accept responsibility for their actions.
Which leads to pathological lying. My ex lied about... Literally... Everything. Even when it didn't make any sense to lie. She would even joke "Well I've always lied. When I was a kid I'd tell a lie even if the truth sounded better." It's like now I can look back at some of the more ridiculous lies and laugh about them because they were wildly outlandish. It does come with a rabbit hole issue though. Because I know that what I eventually found out, or know about, what I witnessed in real time during the discard phase...doesn't even scratch the surface of the messed up shit she was doing the entire time we were together. So I try to lock that up fast. What I know about her was enough I should have left in the beginning. Could have at any point in our 11+ years we were together based on the lies that continued. And it's more than enough now to never speak to her again. So no need to look under any more rocks lol.
I get why people want to know if someone is living with a diagnosis of NPD. It can be validating for us when we have experienced levels of abuse that align with traits characterized by the disorder. As others have mentioned, it’s not only a challenge to diagnose but also a very rare thing to diagnose for numerous reasons- especially since many who have the condition are known to have very treatment resistant attitudes about their condition. I think what’s important is to look past the labels and to acknowledge facets of the behaviour that you may feel personally affected by. We don’t have to say “my ex was a narcissist” to describe why we were mistreated or to justify why we may have left that relationship. “My ex cheated on me with the coworker he said not to worry about, after several attempts to confront the messages that blatantly told me otherwise”, for example, is enough to paint the picture of the individual and why we left. Moreover, it’s far more important to effectively move onwards from the negative experience without harbouring more hurt based on the expectations we’d have of the individual. A manipulator is going to manipulate, but it’s up to us to ensure that we can leave that environment in a way that cultivates our own wellness and recovery- and not allowing the individual to disempower us further by living the rest of our lives upset by what they did to us.
You’ll know. They are so disordered you will be stunned.
[Narcissist Warning Signs](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202007/52-ways-to-identify-a-covert-narcissist)
A narcissist never blames herself when something goes wrong in a relationship. It's always someone else's fault.
A narcissist is a master at gaslighting and projecting. I knew some women who did that A LOT including a long time now ex-friend of mine. If someone tends to throw that term out there liberally with people in their lives there's a good chance that SHE is the narcissist.
Check “Dr Ramani” on YouTube
They lack any and all self awareness. Incapable of genuinely apologizing as well. Like even if they do, they have a justification of sorts. Narcissism is a WIDE spectrum and does not exclusively present itself as someone who is out to cause harm. You can be a complete asshole and still not be a narcissist, oddly enough. That’s how nuanced the disorder is.
Read a book on the subject. Try this one. Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win by Rebbeca Zung.
First of all. Just talk about someone who is toxic or self centred. Only few are actually narcissistic. I think it’s important to not base it off ”doesn’t apologize, talks about themselves, cares about prestige”. All humans do and it’s too vague. Often people that have narcissistic traits themselves might be unable to accept that someone had an excuse, or is so uninterested in other people that they are disturbed by them just sharing. I also don’t think it’s good to base it off how you feel around said person as we have different tresholds for when we experience anxiety! However some concrete behaviours are good to base it off. Remember that it has to be extreme - not doing anything of it at all can also be an issue. There is such a thing called ”healthy narcissism”. But like this: networking is not narcissism. Nor is curating your social circle. But… If a person genuinely avoids friendship with someone because of their title and belittled them: red flag. A lot of things can be confused with narcissism.
Just ask him. I can’t imagine any reason for manipulative behaviour.
If you have to ask it might be you
It is a buzz word! I’m glad u notice that. U gotta be careful it’s like a girl says I had a fight with my bf is he a narcissist and ull look in the comments. And all these ppl will be like yea leave him 😂 in reality there’s no way for us to know unless we know the situation irl. They say almost all ppl have some narcissistic traits but there’s definitely not as many as Reddit says. Idk watch dr ramni and add all those up. It’s kinda rude to call someone that if they actually aren’t Reddit!
**First clue right when you meet them:** they are trying hard to impress you by talking about themselves whether is about how great they are or how much they like to help others without showing genuine curiosity about who you are as person deep inside. This can turn into a very **intense and fast** experience because they want to charm you and talk to you for as long as they can. They'll say things like **"never/always"** "I've never met someone like you or I was always waiting for someone so special like you" when you dig for what or why, they can't answer.. they say something like "oh I just do" So you MUST slow down and put an artificial boundary. Any person that is emotionally immature will want and try to bring that boundary down at any cost even by acting cute and funny ("oooh but I miss you soooo much.. I couldn't wait") or they'll use the ignore method.. the key thing is that they'll engage in some sort of extreme behavior. I'd say give 3 to 6 months before you consider opening up about your vulnerabilities with someone and keep honoring your boundaries while observing their reaction.
they can't contact anyone from their past. ALL their exes were crazy, but they're perfect. people are disposable (ask them what they do with friends they don't need or like anymore). they ghost A LOT of people, they relocate and start all over. they don't keep too many belongings and rarely have personal effects they hang onto. but you don't have to be a narc, you can just be toxic lol
The best way my therapist told me was to wait for a disagreement to happen and just ignore them. Don’t defend your opinion. Don’t say anything in response. Pretend you don’t hear them anymore. Complete cold-shoulder. If they continue to provoke you or begin to fold and beg for you to say something, that is normally a clear sign.
Being a true Narcissist is rare and most people have narcissistic tendencies.
Anyone can display some narcissistic traits or behaviors. A narcissistic personality disorder is another level entirely. Why is it important to know? Is it so that we can feel better about the way someone treated us, by saying they must have a disorder, because no normal, healthy person would ever treat me this way?
Ultimately the lable doesn’t matter. Look for a lack of empathy. That is what will almost confirm if you are dealing with a cluster b personality.
You gotta wait till their proper diagnosis comes, dude. I know it sounds wild, but mental health issues must be addressed by mental health professionals.
It’s actually not very common to actually be diagnosed with NPD but many people have some traits especially when in active addiction for example
They have to have so many of the traits to actually have NPD. Everyone has narcissistic tendencies. So I guess it depends what distinction you're trying to make. People wanna throw the word around so freely without comprehending that we all have, and society inherently is narcissistic in nature rn.
True narcissists aren’t as common as we think. We all have some narcissistic traits and some people lean into them more than others whether it’s subconsciously or not.
Someone who can feel sympathy for others and doesn't feel bad about the things they did to hurt people... Always saying comments to belittle other while uplifting themselves..And also.. they talk a lot about themselves is a clear giveaway for a first interaction .. Hence my in laws..
A narcissistic personality disorder is usually quite abusive towards the people around them, don't feel remorse for their actions, deflect blame, and are pathologically self-centered. NPDs all show certain behaviors consistently throughout their life. There are other people you wouldn't clinically diagnose that exhibit narcissistic traits. You would colloquially call them narcissists, but a personality disorder is at another level. Everyone displays narc traits to a degree, some more than others
Having worked for one demanding self important all about them selves and to hell with everyone else
I almost died due to covid. My boss says "Don't do this to me!" .I was his only worker at the time. Narcissistic?
Most bosses are narcissistic
Self centered. It's all about the Self. You're mate is divulging plans for their bday yours comes first so you make that the priority and disregard planning theirs at all. Cause yours comes first. You executed an ideal. They didn't appreciate what you did cause it wasn't about them you just wanted assurance that you're the best. Instead of learning what they like or dislike, it's all about your effort, and how your unappreciated even if you try. They have an issue or dilemma. You can relate, then choose to hijack their conversation with an irrelevant problem of your own that you're not dealing with, yet here you are taking control of the scenario. To be clear. Your problem is old news. Irrelevant. Done with. However just cause it's relatable now it's the topic. Everything goes back to them. If they're not involved why are we addressing it? That's narcissism. People relate for empathetic reason then soothe another after assuring THEM that they understand the situation, as well what their dealing with.
If they don't seek forgiveness or apologize. A true narcissist is incapable. Hear that MB? Step up. Karma's clock is forever ticking in my favor
Love bombing. Inability to take accountability. Breadcrumbing. Victim complex. Grandiose promises they always break. Everything is always your fault. Manipulating you for more. Never giving or reciprocating and always taking.
Not actually, but if somebody tries to overuse psych buzzwords like “projecting” or “gaslighting” they usually are trying to devalue the term because they do it themselves. Had a narcissist ex tell me to “stop projecting” when I pointed out her behavior, meanwhile I was just a board for her to project all her insecurities onto.
Most people that go around calling people narcissists are narcissists
The easiest way to tell is they will NEVER take responsibility or accountability for anything. Not even tiny things. When caught red handed they will double down on their lies, they will not absolutely will not come clean no matter how much pressure is put on. The second biggest way to tell is your own reaction to them when they're not around. You'll be very hurt and sick inside but may love them more than anything in the world.
Thinking everyone else is a narcissist and talking about it non stop is always a good sign
I've been with narcs/abusers and regardless of the label, I just ask myself now, are they being abusive? If yes then drop them from my life. With that said, there are signs of both: Love bombing and moving fast when you just met. Mirroring you, ie, acting like they like everything you do. Making snide comments about you. Biggest indicator is someone being upset if you call out their behavior. If they go quiet (stonewalling) or flip out or turn things on you, lie, or tell you you're imagining things or it's not what it seems (gaslighting), you might have a narc. It just shows they're incapable of taking any criticism which is hallmark trait. I encourage you to look at r/narcissisticabuse as that has a lot of examples.
When you’re trying to figure out if someone is genuinely a narcissist, it’s all about looking at their patterns, not just isolated incidents. A true narcissist has this overblown sense of self. They don’t just think they’re great - they believe they’re superior to everyone else and deserve special treatment. This isn’t just confidence. It’s an unshakeable belief in their own greatness, even if they haven’t done anything to earn it. They need constant admiration. I’m not talking about just wanting a compliment here and there. They crave validation like a drug. When they don’t get it, they swing from anger to deep insecurity. They need to be the center of attention, always. Then there’s the lack of empathy. They can’t put themselves in someone else’s shoes. It’s not just being inconsiderate, they genuinely can’t connect with or care about others’ feelings. There’s a wall between them and real human connection. Another thing to watch for is how they treat people. Narcissists see relationships as transactions. People are tools to be used and then tossed aside when they’re no longer useful. This isn’t obvious at first, but over time, you’ll see the pattern. They’re also insanely jealous and envious. Even if they act like they’re on top of the world, underneath, they’re constantly comparing themselves to others and feeling envious. This drives them to undermine or belittle others just to keep their inflated self-image intact. So, if you’re looking back at your ex and these traits are ringing true, you’re probably dealing with a narcissist. But don’t just throw the label around because they hurt you. Look for these consistent, damaging patterns in how they interact with the world and others. Trust your gut and what you observed. If these behaviors were there, it’s not just a buzzword - it’s a reality you had to live with. Stay strong and keep pushing forward.
Easy. They start classifying everyone else around them into buckets based on how the relate to said person. You're welcome
This comment and the thread thereafter I making me feel man.. I wascin a 10 year long relationship that started when I was 15 and he was 21...we had a baby 2 weeks after my 20th birthday.....and the person I was before that relationship and the person I am now (27f)......is a sad excuse for who I use to be before that relationship....I feel used up washed out and spit up....with a child, I love my baby, they share the same birthday...(my daughter and her dad)....but I was never able to trust him, he always made every problem that arises MY fault...like anytime there was a problem it was my fault....of course...I wasn't doing enough or working hard enough...or I was looking to deep into things that weren't there...or I was the only one that had a problem cuz he would spin every problem to everybody he knew, (which by that point everyone he knew was everyone I knew....cuz I moved an hour away from my life. Friends and family to live with him) that I was the problem...and he was the victim...I was the aggressor not him....and so everybody in our circle thought that I was the problem.......not him....and I felt do Isolated that even when I told my parents or family about what was going on they'd tell me that I need to come home but his parents friends and family would tell me I had a good thing going and I need to fix this cuz I shouldn't have acted that way....which far outnumbered my parents....and especially in my daily routine these people were around more than my parents...so I always tried to make it better like it was my fault.....I'm now a shell of the person I was...I'm working on it everyday. It's been 2 years since the end of it...but I still struggle staying away from him...if I'm being honest. So please....if you have to question...just go. Before it makes you feel like you can't go or you'll be nothing without.
I can completely relate. I’m in the same boat. I question myself all the time. Being in a relationship with a narc is a total mind fuck. I don’t even recognize who i am anymore. I never thought I would let myself get treated like I do. I always thought I was strong enough that if I were put in a toxic relationship that I would turn around and walk away. But here I am….still. Ugh
THINGS YOU GET IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH A NARCISSIST: • Double standards • Their way or the highway • Never-ending unresolved conflict • Circular arguments • Zero consideration for you • Zero collaboration with you • Silent treatment and avoidance • Gaslighting • Chronic lying and dishonesty • Depression and anxiety • Devaluation • Blame for all their problems • Shame • Crazy This was copied from threads on ig but I know after I read them all I knew I didn’t miss any of it..
...Sadia?
They see anyone who isn’t ruthless as weak, they constantly need to be in control and if they’re not they think you’re scheming something, shamelessly manipulative, impossible for them to see your POV because they lack empathy so they don’t understand why you don’t get their “logic”, greedy, entitled. The end always justifies the means with narcs. They’re unapologetic.
If they are similar to me they would be
If they make every situation about themselves.
I tend to look at those people as cluster B spectrum type people anymore, avoid them, and call it a day.
Google narcissistic personality disorder. If it doesn’t fit Google “emotionally immature people”.
Very easy test for this actually: Have they ever admitted to being wrong? Can they admit to being wrong? If the answer is no, they're probably a narc. If they have, no matter how selfish or toxic they might otherwise be, they aren't a narc
It's not possible to get an actual diagnosis in every situation where it might be useful. That's why you need to look for red flags and keep track of things. If someone is presenting a bunch of red flags and you choose to ignore it, you'll have no one to blame but yourself.
I recently watched some of Ali Abulaban’s trial (TikTok ‘star’ who murdered his estranged wife and her friend after years of abuse towards her) and my god.. this guy has to be the definition of a narcissism. I’ve seen traits of it in other people before, but this douchecanoe is the caricature of a textbook narcissist. Watch like any 30 seconds of his cross examination with the prosecutor and you’ll see what I mean.
If you are questioning if a person is a narcissist most likely they are.
Everyone has narcissistic tendencies. Real narcissists will purposely play mind games, pathological lying, act different in front of others and they are unfaithful and put you down. grandiosity, entitlement, attention-seeking, manipulation, and lack of empathy are the major signs of a narcissist. They are also aggressive and can be violent. A lot of them also have some sort of addiction but thats a whole other topic really. I just got out of a narcissistic relationship with trauma bonding and it's tough but he definitely textbook. I do of women saying their ex was narcissistic but really they are which why they blame and project.
True diagnosis of narcissistic personality is rare. That doesn’t mean a person isn’t being narcissistic in behavior. Surviving life is dependent on development of behaviors that work to fulfill oneself. Toxic or not. Behavior is a learned survival skill. The label narcissist is used. Probably correct in identifying behaviors. The rest is just common sense. Which is truly uncommon in my opinion
Ghetto good book on it because it's much more complicated than just being self-centered. I'm in the middle of the divorce from a woman that is what's called a covert narcissist. It's very different because they don't present like the grandstanding asshole you think. All narcissists have very low self-esteem, but typical narcissists put up the front that you see to hide it. Covert narcissist have a lot of the same tendencies, manipulation, playing the victim, redirecting your emotions, etc. But they can normally look like people that are very unsure of themselves. I just finished reading a book called " should I stay or should I go" that's about figuring out if you're in a relationship with a narcissist. If you're like me, this book was like the author was looking in the window of my relationship for 20 years
Some people aren’t diagnosed. Or are BPD also. Narcissism is someone who says something, but subtly does something else. It’s not always black and white. They give you a lot at first, and slowly steadily start taking little things from you. You get stuck on how much they gave you, and start to feel like because they are taking something tiny from you, you must be the problem. So, you also start to self-gaslight. Then one day bam. They show their real colours. But because you started gaslighting yourself, you lost your sense of self. So that leaves you empty, because you no longer have them, but you also lost yourself. You become indeed a victim of narcissism, and nothing could’ve prepared you for that. You can ask all the questions, because they are so prepared for it, they have all the believable answers. The only protection is: know yourself, and leave as soon as something feels off. You’ll know the difference. I wish I’d known to listen to my guts. When in reality, that was their plan all along. They may not even realise they are a narcissist btw. Sometimes when they heal - they think they made a mistake. But they don’t know how deep their wounds cut. and it has NOTHING to do with the other person. They cannot comprehend the damage they’ve caused.
Sorry, but it is not a buzzword and I wish this rumor would stop. It is getting the attention it needs to help end the life-altering trauma it causes. Other things in history were also considered “buzz words” when they got to be uncomfortable and held certain abusers accountable for their actions. Like sexual harassment, for example. It does take years for these things to settle in as serious and not some passing phase of society. I do think more education is still needed to end the victim blaming that is currently occurring when someone has experienced pervasive and repeated narcissistic abuse from someone.
I was questioning my reality with someone but the internet delivered. A Facebook group of women on dating sites checking if the man they are with is ok dished the dirt and then said me when his girlfriend at the time put up an anonymous question. So many comments about his love bombing and lies, addictions and discarding. I felt seen. His girlfriend dumped his arse - but showed him The screen shots and landed the women in the shit- which is dodgy considering he’s a severe addict and been in prison for DV. She was a victim on DV herself in her past relationship. He retaliated - nothing criminal but still not cool. He thinks he’s the victim.
I was just looking this up a couple of days ago - my mom agrees with my diagnosis of my brother. There is a section about patient propensity to reject the diagnosis and that being a trait consistent with NPD DSM-5 The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) describes NPD as possessing at least five of the following nine criteria. A grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love Believing that they are "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) Requiring excessive admiration A sense of entitlement (unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with their expectations) Being interpersonally exploitative (taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends) Lacking empathy (unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others) Often being envious of others or believing that others are envious of them Showing arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Not by coming to reddit anyway. People get labeled all sorts of things here for nothing most of the time
just consider that it’s a spectrum, not a black or white thing
Its thrown out there too much. And most people have atleast some of the traits of some narcissism in them. Its also easy to call someone something when they are shoved into a psychological box of agony and pain for so long that they respond. There are people who display traits. But are not "true" narcs. While there are textbook narcs. Example. Theres not a single 100/100 honest human being out there. Not a one. Every person lies. Theres also rarely a time when everyone reacts perfectly well to every situation they are ever put in. And every person has been the villain or "crazy" in someone elses memory even if it wasnt intentional because chances are that person only has their perception of the event to tell. I have met women who claimed their ex was narcissistic. And yet early on displayed many of the traits. And it made me wonder "who was the crazy one." Theres also exes of women who certainly went a bit crazy. But after a relationship with the woman. I can DEFINITELY see how her not so great habits or traits or her own contributions to their relationship PUSHED the other person into a "crazier" role they might not have gone toward. People also forget that high degrees of stress from multiple angles can compress and crack a person like a walnut. I learned to stop taking people 100 at their word that its strictly facts i am getting from them regarding a story. But i am merely getting what they remember it as. And sure. The other sides might recall a SIMILAR story. But there will always be new things brought to light. Like heres a pro tip. Most people are ENTIRELY unaware of what they world or their partner is seeing when argueing. Try it in front of a mirror. And remember thats what THEY are seeing from you. How would you respond?
Coming from someone who was with a covert narc for 2.5 years and now live with literal brain damage from the gaslighting, It’s in their eyes. His eyes were green, but during an argument, when he could see me getting disoriented and upset, they would turn almost black. Tbh, the color wasn’t what made them scary, it was the hollowness. And then he would smile, and sometimes start laughing and make fun of me for being so confused. I can literally still see it. Also, starting a horrible argument or starting some kind of issue while you’re doing something important. Every single event I had, especially vacations, he would either breakup w me, ghost me, or block me. One time, I went to Disney with my family, & I was standing in line for the very first ride when he sent me pics of him self harming & said he was going to the ER and I didn’t hear from him for days. I cried all day walking around the mf magic kingdom. He was mandated to go to therapy after that. He went once and called me after to say how horrible it and she’d made everything was his fault. Hmmm. I’ve suppressed most of our relationship, but, over the years, I’ll randomly remember something that was absolutely horrible. S/O to the military deploying him to South Korea. Lol Idk how else I would’ve escaped that one. Anyway, that was the first, and last, person I’ll date in the military. Sry to generalize, but whew the trauma.
Watch Dr.Ramnis videos on YT. She’s great. That’s a good starting point
Don’t ask Reddit that’s for sure
To actually know they are narcissists, they must show a pervasive, consistent pattern in every corner of their life of narcissitic behavior. Narcissism will plague all their relationships, not just their romantic ones, because they are high conflict. Sure, a narcissist can have relationships of all kinds, and everybody might just love them, but those relationships tend to be pretty superficial, even if they are longterm. My ex always had problems with friends, family members, coworkers and bosses, and all his past romantic partners were the problem (and I have joined that club). They will have a consistent pattern of conflict with others (for which they are never to blame). Narcissists are entitled. Not just with their romantic partners but with everyone. Sure, they may have learned social mores and norms and can pretend to understand they aren't entitled to things that aren't theirs, but ultimately they believe they are entitled. Stealing, vandalism, SA, parasitic lifestyles, fraud. You name it. If you suspect someone is a narcissist in your life then they take a lot of your time and energy, because they are entitled to it. My ex once told me he believed God was real because he stole a kids bike and when the kids dad knocked on his door to get it back my ex prayed to God the dad wouldn't find it, and he didn't so my ex believed in God because "God" essentially allowed him to break the first commandment and wrong an innocent child. When I pointed this out, he did not understand why his logic was flawed. Narcissists are victims. They will do 100 horrible things to you and if you react badly once they guilt trip you in perpetuity. They DARVO in every conflict. They are consistent victims, at work, in school, in their social circles, in their relationships, in their families. Everyone does wrong by them, everyone wrongs them, and this is often used as an excuse to wrong others. Narcissists don't seem to believe in an objective reality. Everything is up for debate. There is no reality where they are to blame. They have a consistent pattern of bending reality through gaslighting, lying, or delusion. Narcissists are chameleons, where they don't seem to have a consustent self. They change to mirror different groups. My ex was a liberal around me and a right winger around his friends and an evangelical around his mom and an Atheist around a different group of friends. Narcissists are h8ghly manipulative. Love bombing and people pleasing is manipulation they use to lure people in and they can be very charming. Then it's coercion, extortion, guilt tripping, obligating others from there. Narcissists emotionally regulate by externally processing their feelings through projection and require a metric fuck ton of external validation in return. So basically a narcissist will dump all their shitty feelings they have about themselves into their enmeshed partner and then their enmeshed partner must pump positive feelings back towards them in return.
Who knows but there was a post that says ask them. Most narcissists are proud of it
Commenting to come back later, I'm in a relationship with a diagnosed narcissist
You'll have very specific examples of behavior that seem actually literally insane and not just an arrogant person. I know a few narcissists that have claimed others were, and in those cases they had very generic nonspecific comments and were ultimately projecting.
You do hours and hours of intense research and going over moments from your relationship to analyze. Start with the podcasts the narcissists code and raw motivations.
by their constant need for admiration, lack of empathy, and always putting themselves first
I think I can answer that but it isn't something easy to see until you get to a deep and dark place with them. Simply put, there isn't a core there. It's reality altering when you really see this. The "personality" is a quilt made of pieces picked up from others. Not the same as thinking someone is awesome and wanting to try and be a bit more like them. It's straight stolen and added to the mask. By the time I was able to *mostly* get away from my ex, more than half of the person he shows to ppl was stolen from me. Like I was a philosophy major and have always studied psychology as well, just not officially in school. He now talks like he's this wise individual and quotes me (not bc he learned the theories or read the books, he doesn't actually understand the concepts if you started asking questions) but I regret all that I "taught" him bc it's going to make his manipulation for future victims even harder to figure their way out of. The empathy may feel real to you but does the person consistently see what's going on for others around them? They don't have to be cruel to show a lack of empathy but, ex. does it even occur that the neighbor may have some difficult things going on in their life? Do they consistently act in a way that shows they have an understanding that their actions could be negatively affecting others? Ex. Hiking with friends and he would just walk off in a different direction deep in a forest with no cell reception and in a forest, state even, that none of us knew at all, so the rest of us would just be running to catch up bc if we got separated there would be no way to find each other. Literally no way. The rest of us would've been fine without him but in these types of circumstances, you leave no man behind and that's what we would've had to do if we didn't start running once we noticed. Richard Grannon and the Little Shaman have the best info I've seen and I've been desperately researching for over a year trying to figure out wtf was going on. Sam Vatnin (sp?) was the only one that could give me the very specifics of the structure I was dealing with (doormat narcissist turns primary psychopath) Really understanding and finding out that there is not a core there at all is the part though that I would say separates legit npd from assholes, toxic ppl, bpd, etc.
Given everyone’s diagnoses these days I think 90% of people I know are narcissists including myself.
look for the main signs. 1) a narcissist has no empathy, they dont care about other peoples emotions. 2) a narcissist has a sense of entitlement, they think they deserve special treatment. 3) a relationship with a narcissist is gona be superficial. no emotional connection, no deep talks, dry. they only care abt superficial things like ur looks. 4) they take advantage of other people, cheat on them, use them for their own needs. 5) they have a huge ego, and think their more powerful or better than everyone else. source: i was in a 3 year relationship with a narcissist.
That's the fun part...you don't...
A 100% way to tell a narcissist apart from a normal person is that narcissist personalities usually do not have an imagination of their own and they usually like Digi man more than pokey man. They're out of this world, in other words! Like their s*** comes from the Moon!
A simple way is that they seem deathly I'll of taking any wrongdoing as everything is someone else's fault. If they can easily say sorry I screwed up without having to pull teeth on something mildly important then there's a high chance they aren't a narcissist
You shouldn't call anyone a narcissist unless they have been professionally diagnosed. This is one of the many things I learned in Psych class. It's an actual disorder, not a word to be thrown around because you hear everyone who doesn't understand what it is, using it. If you see a therapist, they may tell you a person shows narcissistic characteristics but ultimately they won't know until they or another professional diagnoses them personally.
They have no empathy.
If the person makes you feel insecure and neglected, they have some narcissistic traits - not exactly a diagnosed narcissist, but they have narcissistic traits. People who have solid empathy engage in “active listening” and are attentive to people’s needs. They’re reassuring and uplifting. You won’t feel insecure and neglected around them.
I narcissist wouldn’t worry about being a narcissist. That would involve introspection and reflection of how your actions affect others.
What does it matter? If they’re selfish, run.
Narcissism and histrionic are disorders that look a lot like autism. They’re usually super easy to spot, they don’t benefit the person who has them. Think of Michael or Dwight from the office. Your evil manipulative ex that you couldn’t get over most likely was not like either of those two. What I think gets labeled as narcissism too frequently is just common immature behavior. Kid does something they know they aren’t supposed to, they get caught, then they lie deflect rationalize whatever to get away with it. When an adult acts like this people call it narcissistic like they’re some brilliant manipulator but actually it’s just selfish childishness they haven’t grown out of.
When you know, you KNOW
1st) the fact that you’re actually searching for the truth of the matter and not blindly labeling without giving it a second thought is not only respectable, but more likely telling of who your ex is. 2) narcissistic traits include but are not limited to: gaslighting, manipulation, avoiding taking responsibility for their actions or acknowledgement *at all costs* (can even go as far as to fake heart attacks but not a qualifying example), invalidation, self absorption, giving with the intention of receiving, and aggression when they sense they are losing their grip of control over you
When they have absolutely no remorse and terrorize you for fun. Alienate you from friends and family. Give you lots of sex, then take it away and then tell you that you’re a sex addicted when you have to beg for it lol. That was wild. Hurt you aggressively emotionally and physically until you feel like nothing. There’s always a last straw though, for the normal empathetic person. Ruin everything for you. Every holiday… family function. Unless it’s about them. Cheat on you left and right, but make you feel crazy when you catch them. Record you when you’re breaking down crying. It’s the utter lack of remorse and the weird glint they get in their eyes when they’ve brought you to your knees.
You can't 100%. Humans are complex and most people probably have traits associated with narcissists. People with egos might seems like "narcissists" for example, but that Doesn't mean they're full on narcissists'. Instead of trying to diagnose which you probably will not be able to, focus on whether that person is a good/caring person or just a decent person in general and has good morals.
In my personal experience, narcissists do not believe they are responsible for anything that they do to other people. Like, ever. Never, never, never. I'm talking to like, a ridiculous, Cartoon Villain extreme. Have you seen the "Who Killed Hannibal?" meme? That is a narcissist in a (admittedly hilarious) nutshell. A narcissist could walk up to a stranger, shoot them in the street, and say, "I'm the real victim because my parents let me play violent video games." If you have ever treated a person badly, and later felt real, personal guilt for it - not "Public Apology" posting for attention and sympathy on social media - you are not a narcissist.
They are diagnosed by someone who has a relevant degree or field of study.
They blame you for their shitty behavior as if you were responsible for them
My (41m) stbx (39f) seems to be an actual one. She spends countless hours at events trying to get the perfect selfie, she puts her own desires above everything else including our kids. She’s working and refuses to pay joint expenses since she won’t move out. Instead she uses me for a free ride and parties with her earrings, leaving me with the kids all the time. She avoids the crap out of me because she’s afraid to talk about what we’re going through. I’m also 90% sure she’s cheating on me. She has no accountability and any time I try to talk about our situation and what I need her to do becomes a fight because she takes everything as an attack.
Do they make everything about them find a way to make themselves the center of every conversation always somehow turn out to be the victim if so they're most likely a narcissist.
Good ol, narcissists! They never take responsibility for their own actions and point the finger and blame you for the reason of doing shitty things, so there for it’s your fault then they hold no guilt on their own conscious. Self-centered and selfish! BOOM you been diagnosed! I’m no doctor but I’ve lived with one for 20 years! Took me 14-15 years to figure it out though!
childish emotions with adult intelligence
Narcissism is a spectrum imo.
True narcissists are extremely rare, and you know pretty quickly, because it’s obvious. But many have an extremely self-centered outlook, which resembles narcissism, imho
There's really no way to be sure without a diagnosis. But it doesn't really matter. If someone is treating you badly, it's ok to cut them off whether or not they have a personality disorder.
Author of Rethinking Narcissism, Craig Malkin, has 3 things to look for at a minimum. The Three E's. Lack of Empathy, Over abundance of Entitlement, and Exploitative behavior.
Study up on high conflict personalities. There are a few flavors of them, of which narcissistic is one of them. 1. The WEB model: words/emotions/behaviors are generally at the extremes of the spectrum. A lot of all or nothing thinking tends to happen here. 2. Statistical prevalence: roughly 10% of the population falls into the high conflict bucket. 3. Combine these and you get The 90% Rule - essentially if 90% of people wouldn't do, say or feel the things this person is, it's likely they're a high conflict personality. *note, people are still people. This doesn't necessarily mean rule someone out just because they're kind of intense. The verbiage of HCP is descriptive without being accusatory for the most part. Pay attention to patterns of thinking and behavior.
EVERYONE has narcissistic traits. Everyone. My father was diagnosed with NPD. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). I then spent 10 years with one. Yes, the word is WILDLY overused, but there is a huge difference between an actual Narcissist, versus an uncaring, self-absorbed, conceited asshole.
Anyone have tips on someone that's a narc vs. emotionally immature/coddled by parents
From my personal experience Constantly talking about themselves Having no real interest in you or what you say They will meet you on thier own time with no regard for yours Show up late on purpose so you have to wait for them Compulsive liars Just highly toxic bastards all around
No one should be diagnosing anyone unless they have the knowledge to do so. It actually pisses me off that this word is so over used. It’s my field of study. I see it like unqualified people saying someone has lung cancer because they cough a lot. If someone treats you in a way you find unacceptable, it’s time to let them go. I see a lot of people who narcissistic traits call other people narcissists, which is one of the many reasons I am annoyed the word became mainstream.
Pronouns in bio
Mother is most likely a narcissist. I've done some research and I've been in relationships with those who could almost be confused with narcissists. One pathological liar who struggled with empathy and one emotionally unavailable man. It's easy to use the term for anyone who puts themselves first or shows extreme selfishness. For me, the line is best drawn on two things: empathy and control. Narcissists really struggle to empathize or just can't. Themselves and their pain is always more interesting, they're capable of dismissing or ignoring almost anything you may share with them. Or using it against you. They tend to live in delusions of persecution or grandeur as well so they will often compete for who had it worst rather than truly empathize with you. They also don't really listen or remember much of what you say which is a way they show they aren't connecting with you in a normal human way. Control is the second thing. They create conflict to gain control, to gaslight you and make you doubt things. Often they are warping your reality to their own, those delusions of persecution and grandeur. If someone is learning things about you and using them against you, diminishing and ignoring your feelings and making you feel guilty for feeling them, giving you affection as you do what they want and flying into a rage when they don't, you may have a narcissist on your hands. The worst thing about this control part is you can eventually lose sight of reality and get sucked into theirs.
Go to the Out of the Fog website. It lists traits and behaviors. It is a real eye opener.
Does it matter? If they're abusive they're abusive.
if he looks like donald trump
When a licensed clinician or three diagnose them.
Lack of empathy for others is probably the biggest sign that someone is a dark triad type of person. Does this person excuse their abuse or manipulation of others? Does this person dismiss other people’s pain while they act as if their problems are the end of the world? Do they make statements that imply that they know what is best for everyone around them?
There’s a book called why does he do that which is pretty good insight.
I can help with that. 1. List your 5 biggest weaknesses whenever it comes to a romantic relationship. 2. List your 5 biggest weaknesses whenever it comes to normal/platonic relationships. 3. List 5 things you did to or with your ex that, if in his or her shoes, you wouldn’t be happy. 4. Ask yourself one big question. Would anyone be lucky to have you, THEY, just can’t see your worth. Does it resonate? If not, you ain’t the narc. Big Narc statement. 5. Admit you have problems and address them. The first one may depend on how well you know yourself. If you can’t do the second one…you are more narcissistic than you hope. Number 3 same as number 2 except sexual attachment intensifies narcissistic traits. Number 4 if you catch yourself saying this, get humble. Good thing is, it is changeable. 😉
Manipulation, gas lightning, attempting to make you doubt your reality, possessiveness, they may have angry outbursts, they often project a false persona into the public and abuse those closest to them behind closed doors, cheating, verbal/physical abuse, name calling, attempting to guilt trip. These are a bunch there are many more. Not all narcs will have all of these. There are different types of narcs. Grandiose, covert, communal, malignant. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter if the person is a narc. It’s basically just an expression of a lot of these behaviors. If you notice these behaviors, don’t break yourself trying to diagnose the person like you actually HAVE to know. You know enough, they have those behaviors, who cares what you call em. Get em out of your bubble.
You’ll know when it’s bad. It’s hard though because romantic relationships can get bad, but that’s because immaturity, naivety, expectations, possession, control, mostly because of outside factors. It can bring out the worst in people. But a narcissist, comes from the inside, will display traits, manipulate situations, and cause overall dread even if they’re in a great mood. Especially if they are. It is draining, and it feels a bit like fighting brainwashing, dealing with one. A lot of conditions and entitlement and talk and a lot of compensation and justification thrown in, under the guise of “self awareness” and care. Some really aren’t aware though. They just believe they’re owed things, it’s hard to describe the extent and gall because I can’t understand it. But you feel it and it’s scary what they can do, especially when you watch them charm other people into doing extensive work for them for almost no compensation or whatever else. Its lies are very deeply ingrained in their brain, that they can do anything to get what they want and push people’s boundaries and be the exception in any case. It can be hard to tell, and in the end, if somebody is even displaying just traits of narcissism, stay away. Not worth it to figure out and try to change them
A LOT of narcissists tend to lack emotion and empathy for others. In fact, most crime documentaries will note the criminal has narcissistic tendencies.
Tik tok diagnosed my family as narcissist. But the more i learn about it, it seems to be a manifestation of trauma from their own upbringing. So to truly know you would have to investigate who raised them?
I worked in mental health. NPD is rare. People say narcissist in place of the word “selfish.”
Become a clinical psychologist, get licensed, and then do the appropriate testing. This is the only way.
Going out of their way to tell everyone how everyone in their past was a narcissist. Avoid people who don’t have anything good to say about anyone else
“NPD is diagnostically defined in the DSM-5 (APA 2013; pages 669-672) as a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy, with interpersonal entitlement, exploitiveness, arrogance, and envy.” https://www.mcleanhospital.org/npd-provider-guide Those criteria manifest differently from person to person.
I'm not a narcissist, YOU are.
Compulsive lying, manipulation, gas lighting, deceit, seeks and craves validation, etc.
He is sincerely convinced that his abuse is justified, that the people he hurts deserve it. I have only become sure he's pathological since I left. When we were together, I still fed his ego somewhat and he wasnt quute THIS awful. When we split, he stopped getting that and became a different person toward me. We have a child together, and our son (6) has been acting out at school. But my ex just denies our son has any issues. He works against the school because he genuinely seems to be insulted by the mere suggestion that our son is not perfect. That's because he cannot separate himself from our son. Our son is acting out because he's battling his dad for autonomy, but doesn't know it yet. Not only does he make up things that I did or said, they actually become true in his mind. They have to become true, because his mind cannot allow him to see himself as the bad guy. Once they become true in his mind, he's delusional and he wont be convinced otherwise. So conversations are not productive, he wants me to "admit" that I did all these things. He's so convinced that Im the problem, he tells health providers and even CPS things that make him sound unhinged. He has no idea Ive been working with these systems to get help for me and my son. Once he finds out, he will only view it as further evidence that Im "evil". He's never actual been physically violent towards me, but as time goes on his rage towards me seems to be increasing. This makes me feel afraid for my physical safety, even though there's not much indication that its a risk. Someone who wasnt pathological would have a decrease in rage over time, they would strive for their own well-being eventually, but he does not. Personality disorders are self-destructive, meaning its not a sustainable way to be long-term. So the longer you know someone, the more you can see the evidence of NPD or BPD. Its very debilitating. They need so much help and love but cannot receive it in healthy ways.
How they treat others is the key sign. Waitresses, the homeless, kids, family, the elderly. If they show no empathy to anyone and make all decisions on what benefits them, that’s a good sign you shouldn’t pair up. Lack of deep long term friendships are often evidence of this.