Honestly if they had led with that the relationship probably wouldn’t have gotten as much backlash. Ororo reconnected with T’Challa shortly after Decimation iirc. If Hudlin wrote it so she was an ambassador of mutantkind working with Wakanda to protect African mutants, the union would’ve been natural and felt like a natural synergy between the two characters.
T’Challa is a largely depicted as a reformist king and Ororo has always been one of the pro-human X-Men, their project could’ve been the start of an alliance that grew into a genuine romance. Not too unlike the Emma/Tony pairing in Duggan’s Iron Man. Instead the entire thing was rushed in like two arcs and all the political and social implications of the pairing went underexplored, forcing Ororo into a supporting role in T’Challa’s solo book.
While successive Black Panther/Fantastic Four writers wrote Ororo with more agency, the damage was done.
Oooooorrrrrrrrr T'Challa sets up the Wakandan Embassy in the grounds of the Xavier School? Or Wakanda has revamps the school from the ground up for the sake of its mutant children. Something less out of pocket.
Respectfully, I absolutely hate that idea. Storm is one of the key figures of the X-Men and is recognized as a leader among the greater mutant population
To do away with all of that to shoehorn her into Wakanda/Black Panther’s mythos is a borderline insult to the legacy of the character IMO
💯
Beyond her mutant abilities, people sleep on Storm’s other qualities.
She is such a good leader of the X-men.
She was a motherly figure to many younger mutants including Shadow cat.
Her incredible composure has been known to calm down Cyclops, Wolverine and Magneto during various storylines.
And through her lineage, she can harness the power of witchcraft.
She doesn’t need to play the doting wife of the king. She is a goddess
Thank you.
Whenever storm is referred to as a goddess or has some implication that her powers are a result of some legacy and not her mutation, I get annoyed because it takes away a core part of her character also. Storm is a powerful mutant but she’s still a mutant, something that shouldn’t be buried under ideas of being so powerful to be on the level of divine beings.
She’s powerful because she mastered her mutation.
She is worshipped in universe so why can't she be considered a goddess by their followers? You are drawing an arbitrary line that doesn't serve anything.
The law of comics demands that no superhero couple is allowed to stay happy.
Im honestly shocked they haven’t broken up or fucked with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage yet.
Pretty sure that Bendis spent most of his later Avengers run building a plot wall around that relationship, and behind the scenes put death notes out on anyone that dares to fuck with the relationship.
This doesn’t surprise me that the petulant child that is bendis who loves breaking and ruining other peoples toys, does not like to share or when people do the same thing to him
Supersons and Jon…you could throw legion of superheroes in that pile as wel..
It’s insane how much damage he did at DC despite only being around for a super short time
I always sweat a little when Absorbing Man and Titania are in a comic. I just want them to stay this happy little couple, but they are small enough that a writer could kill on of them for a cheap emotional shock.
Titania is most safe she is the closest thing She-hulk has of a nemesis or main villain, Absorbing Man is also most safe, even if they kill him, because of how his powers work, any write can just revive him very easily, "oh he was never really dead, just taking his time to reform"
Because Jessica Jones and Luke Cage aren't popular enough to fuck around with like that, they're known enough, but no one is gonna fight you about "The importance of Luke Cage being single."
"She's black, he's black. They have so much in common" As much as a street urchin mutant from Cairo and a King from a reclusive sub-Saharan African country can. Which is, ummm, they are superheroes too?
Sometimes, these are natural pairings, the rest of the time, it feels like an easy way to make a couple without thinking. Like, if you had one black friend/woman friend and try to force them on another one from a different circle of friends.
Both of their popularity individually wasn't made overnight, it took time.If they give up before starting they are fulfilling their prophecy by not making a good story about them.
>there was some precedent in Priest's run for example
And under Claremont too. Their first meeting was in Marvel Team-Up 100, I think: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Team-Up_Vol_1_100
OK but explain [The Deep and Sister Sage](https://youtu.be/V1cE7KD2v3I). They don't like each other *at all* but suddenly they're a red hot hookup couple
Because Sister sage shoved the mental handicap baton inside her thinking cap, making her more like everyone else, horny and a slave to their emotions lol. I.E. she’s cosplaying neurodivergence and all that shit.
No clue. Liebe is love and stesh might be something they somehow got from "stehen" (to stand) but it’s nonsense
Edit: oh maybe they tried to have him say "Liebsten" (favourites, beloved)
It meant that Storm disappeared from the X-Men for a decade and hardly appeared in any of their big events. The relationship was not good enough to be worth the loss of the character.
They were married in 2007 during Civil War and broke up in 2012 during AvX, and during those 5 years she was a regular in Astonishing X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, X-Men (2010), Uncanny X-Men (2012) and appeared in Messiah Complex, Second Coming and Schism. They didn't reduce her appearances at all, they just did a Wolverine and had her in 30 places at once
And in how many of those events and stories did she have a major role? Zero. How many storylines or character interactions did she have in that period? Zero. She ignored the "deaths" of two of her close friends, the corruption of another, and even the genocide of her own species. If you're seriously telling me you don't think she had a massively reduced role in X-Men comics between at least 2007 and 2012, then you clearly haven't read any of the books you're talking about.
While I agree with what you’re saying, couldn’t you also make the same argument for all of the Marvel couples that are both white?
It’s just kinda a thing in media where both romantic leads are forced to be the same race, it definitely gives racial purity vibes, and a lot of the major superhero couples (Clark/Lois, Reed/Sue, Hawkman/Hawkgirl, Hank/Janet etc) were established before 1967’s ruling of Loving v Virgina, but it’s always kinda bugged me that it’s the “norm.”
I think it is a matter of the fact that same race relationships are just more common, but just because statistics deem something as rare doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be represented, and I’m glad that there is a recent trend of inter-race relationships like Carol/Rhodey, Luke/Jessica, and Gwen/Miles (even if I just kinda dislike the pairing of Miles and Gwen in-general).
Most comic characters are White, side character or otherwise. It’s a simple consequence of that.
The relative scarcity of non-White characters makes relationships where they’re put together feel forced.
But only as fuck-buddies. Given any alternative they’ll take it, but when they’re both single it’s fine
They don’t really work as an actual couple- they have nothing in common and it doesn’t advance either of their stories
Craig is the fucking GOAT. Human astronaut somehow surviving in the insane Arrakko society, picking up two kids as he does, and banging the queen? He's the black John Carter of Mars.
I can completely understand why people criticize it for how forced it is: “We took our two most prominent black characters and paired them together,” but I just enjoy their dynamic together too much for me to say that I hate it. I especially liked when they took over briefly for Reed and Sue on the Fantastic Four.
Definitely my favorite of the possible Storm love interests; Wolverine and Forge don’t cut it.
My personal favorite part of the whole relationship was when they finally got divorced and Storm could be her own hero again, instead of just "Black Panther's queen".
Like, just to give you guys an idea, before this marriage happened, Storm was *the* female superhero not just in the X-Men, but in Marvel Comics as a whole. In the Marvel vs DC crossover, she was picked as the Wonder Woman equivalent.
Then the marriage happened, and she faded into the background while Emma Frost kind of took over her place as the X-Men's co-leader with Cyclops (don't get me wrong, I love Emma, but it did happen), and they started pushing Captain Marvel as the main female superhero of Marvel, which if you ask me, never worked out.
You could say this all happened because, during that time, the X-Men were getting stomped into the dirt thanks to corporate pettiness, which is also true, but it does rub me the wrong way that a popular black superhero got relegated to love interest for another (at the time) less popular hero just because he's also black, while two blue eyed blonde white women got pushed to her spot. That might just be me reading too much into it though.
I liked them as a couple and their dynamic was great. They regularly came to each other’s aid and help. Now theyre on and off again. But they basically got broken up by editorial and Chris Claremont (who also hated the idea and creation of Black Panther)
I could see Forge being chill enough to pull Ororo. She seems to dig the older, gruff guys. I still remember Storm and Wolverine randomly making out in issues (presumably more behind the scenes), at least in the 90's runs. It was weird, but also made sense.
Storm and Wolverine were also together for a while in the early 2010s. I think it was a case of an odd couple that seems weird at first, but makes sense the more you think about it given their core similarities and shared histories
Yeah, Claremont is a creep. Kitty with Peter when she was like 13 and hes 20. How many ladies got mind-controlled and "taken mind and body" by baddies. I loved his Xmen but in hes still creepy.
>Chris Claremont (who also hated the idea and creation of Black Panther)
When did Claremont say he hated the *creation* of Black Panther? As far as I'm aware he only ever said that putting Storm and Black Panther together was a mistake and shouldn't have happened (which he was right about).
Possibly confusing the story that Claremont was in some kind of supervisory/advisor position/QA when Marvel Knights Black Panther was being produced. I believe he didn’t think much of it, causing Quesada to confront him and demand a bet on the book’s success.
It was a corporately shallow reason Marvel ever made them a couple. However, talented writers did a fairly good job with it and weaving in retcons to make it work. But it was always doomed to fail because it split Storm’s focus between Wakanda and X-Men duties, and she’s always going to default to X-Men stuff if push comes to shove.
I don’t know about popular, but personally, I never liked them together. I understand they had a thing when they were younger, but they just don’t work together.
Devalues Storm a bit. Like she's putting a "Wakanda coat of paint" over her already killer vibe.
I'm THRILLED she's getting a solo series, where she gets to fight space gods and not play second fiddle to Panther or even the rest of the X-Men for that matter.
They should've stayed together, IMO. One of the best couples to come along. BTW. The backing of Wakanda for Marvel's merry mutants would've been beneficial in the long run. Imagine a pile of broken Sentinals returned to sender by one of the most powerful nations in the Marvel Universe.
Feels forced. Like someone said “hey, we have two cool Black African star characters….that means that have to get married.”
Like “oh, you’re from New York? Do you know Dave?”
I wasn’t reading any of their stuff when this happened, so I can’t say whether they did anything good with it, I just know that it feels like it came from a dumb place.
T’Challa is the king of a nation with his own solo comic. His love interest is always gonna fall into a supporting character type of role like MJ in Spidey comics or Mera in Aquaman.
Ororo isn’t really the type of character that fits in that position nor do her fans expect her to do so because she’s a leading character in her own right. She’s either leading her own X-Men team or second in command to Cyclops.
T’Challa is better served by a love interest created within the BP comics that can play the role of queen while Ororo would be better off with a secondary X-Men character like Forge.
I don't know but I hate it. BP should be in Wakanda and Storm should be wherever mutant stuff is happening. They just have very different priorities which will obviously clash at times (see X of Swords for a recent example).
Edit - I'd be fine with it in the Ultimate universe, as Storm doesn't have the X-Men or other mutants there.
I think it should be less Storm married to T'Challa, and more T'Challa married to storm. Black Panther's cool and a little-bit powered, but Storm is a god.
Storm and Logan are pretty cute with a lot more charisma than Storm and T’Challa, but I can’t imagine them as anything more than a fling. Plus, Logan’s lovers tend to end up dead more often than not 😨
People say it’s forced but I can’t think of a harder panel from any of their other relationships then in Hickmans time runs out where t’challa realizes with the world ending he would rather spend his last moment with storm then try to fight back.
I wasn't a fan when they first introduced it because it felt so shoehorned in, but they've done some good stuff with it in recent years, playing with the dynamic of the pull between love and duty, without resolving it eifher way. I like just having them live in the complexity and confusion of it.
Yea and I think that’s where Marvel wants to keep them too. T’Challa doesn’t have any other prominent love interests and Ororo and Logan are more of an occasional fling than lifelong lovers. Forge arguably works best for her but he tends to get sidelined in the X-books (though I think he’s leading X-force now).
Marvel’s probably gonna have T’Challa and Ororo oscillate between close friends with benefits and political rivals til the end of time lol. Editorial knows it sparks controversy and there’s been some complex stories to come out of it like the X of Swords tie-in and the latter parts of the Coates Black Panther run.
I think the pairing seemed pretty shallow, besides, people seem to like Forge & Storm more. As for Black Panther, I haven't really read much of his stuff to know if there's someone from his comic history that's more of a better match.
Didn't like it, but most of Storm's relationships are weird. I liked Forged because he seemed to be the only one to actually like her for herself and not because she was some goddess. Storm definitely is a powerhouse I don't think she really needs to be the subject of romance. Just let her be a badass.
It was forced and felt a bit on the political side. Let storm be with forge and tchalla be with nakia . Have nakia be the wife, queen of wakonda and mother of tchalla's son who can be a little baby during the present time .
Personally, they’re a good pair. Perhaps as a political marriage it fits better, to ward off the naysayers, but storm is an expert tactician and warrior while T’chala is one of the greatest minds on earth. They put the power in power couple.
I’ll speak for forum posting fans since they are the loudest :) At firstthe internet hated the idea. Because it was forced. Fans were semi open if they were written well, they were not… like really not done well at all. We all got angry. They then broke up and we all cried at the lost potential ….
At least this is how I interpreted it all…
I personally feel like the best story is the storm become a real marvel goddess in black panther as one of there best couple stories.
The picture that OP posted helps to illustrate my issue with how they've been depicted. In it, T'Challa is seated on his throne, focused on the myriad responsibilities that come with being the sovereign of the world's most advanced country. And to his side is Ororo, lovingly supporting him, lightly caressing his arm and his back. There to support him as always. There's nothing wrong with it in the abstract. It's rather sweet. If I didn't know the history of either character, I'd say it looks great.
The issue I have is that Ororo is literally more than an order of magnitude more powerful than T'Challa is. He's a Captain America-tier hero; she's an Omega-class mutant. He's respected as a king; she's been worshipped as a literal goddess. Most of the threats that Black Panther struggles with could be annihilated by Storm in seconds. Klaw? Electrocuted. Killmonger? Electrocuted. Conversely, if Black Panther tried to take on someone from Storm's rogues gallery...well...it would likely be time for another ceremony to declare a new Black Panther.
This is not to say that men can't "marry up", or that powerful women can't choose romantic partners who are less powerful than they are. Quite the opposite: Storm goes quite well with Forge. (See below) But it's the traditional, overly patriarchal portrayal of Black Panther as the primary spouse and Storm as the supportive, demure spouse to his side that irks me. She is as regal as he is, far more powerful, and familiar with even greater degrees of reverence; Storm deserves better than to just be a "stand by your man" piece of arm candy.
That's what I like about Storm and Forge. Forge is chill AF, and he never made any grandiose posturing that placed him above her. He knew she was far more powerful than he was, and he was cool with that. He loved her for who she was, and she for him, and that was all that mattered.
It's not that I'm opposed to T'Challa and Ororo being married. But I'm irritated that many writers portray their marriage in a manner that requires Storm to "dim her light" so that she doesn't outshine her husband.
They don't work as a couple in fiction precisely because they would work too well in real life. They are the sort of people who would politely and formally get married, politely and formally raise some heirs for their kingdom, and then politely and formally die. In a fictional series where drama is important, they don't work because any conflict feels forced and out-of-character.
Waste of opportunity not having a child between them. We’d have a Mutant heir to the Wakandan Throne. Sounds like exciting future story telling potential. Could drag Wakanda directly into X-Men affairs in a more intimate way.
It was good but seeing as Storm can’t fully commit to Wakanda, T’Challa should have another queen. I liked in the Ultimate universe how he was with Okoye.
I would like to see more black couples in Marvel tho. They seem to hate black relationships
An okay relationship for Black Panther- he benefits from strong women as supporting characters. Terrible for Storm- she went from the leader of the X-men to playing second fiddle to T’Challa. Not bad thematically, as they do have an overlapping time spent in central-east Africa as teens, and they do share a love for the region and they’re both regal, but eh not very compelling from a thematic perspective.
But then getting divorced? Fantastic. Both of them needed more broken loves in their past, and Forge x Storm comes off as a little cringe these days, since a lot of people missed the start of it and Lifedeath doesn’t sell it *that* much.
Them having divorce fights is so fun
It turned Storm into a supporting character for T'Challa, little different from Shuri or Nakia. I'm not saying either Shuri or Nakia are bad characters or that they don't deserve the limelight or anything like the, but how often are they starring role main characters?
This same thing was happening to Ororo when she was married to T'Challa. After all, the series didn't suddenly become "Storm and the Black Panther," it was still just "Black Panther" and, with him existing longer as a character, that's how it was always going to happen. T'Challa, even when he's getting his comeuppance, is still T'Challa, the Black Panther and King of Wakanda. He's led the Avengers who, as a result of the MCU (and Fox's mishandling of the X-Men), were a bigger team than the X-Men of the time, and he carries that extra clout. Storm, no matter how powerful or how popular she may be, can't stand against editorial.
Also, I like the idea of Storm with Callisto or Yuki as partners better; they have more on page history and better chemistry than Ororo and T'Challa.
I’m not too big of a comic book reader but personally I always liked storm paired up with wolverine(the 90s tv series made me want to see this couple more)
They're cute and a good couple but can be annoying because it can take away because the writing they have can take away from Storms importance to the X Men
Great idea, essentially having two sovereign's form a union (despite not being a queen, Storm is recognized as a Goddess throughout Africa). But terrible to execute because of her role and involvement with the X-Men.
It came out of nowhere and without remotely as much set-up for how big they wanted to make it, but I do think that they are a good couple overall, and they should probably keep it going.
I was never a fan.
If Storm is gonna be with anyone, I always liked Storm/Logan.
But ultimately? I like Storm just living for herself. I don't like seeing her with a partner.
Cute and good couple but in practice really takeaway Storm involvement to the x-men
Yeah I feel like it would work better if it would make T'Challa/Wakanda be more active with the X-men. I think it could add a lot
Honestly if they had led with that the relationship probably wouldn’t have gotten as much backlash. Ororo reconnected with T’Challa shortly after Decimation iirc. If Hudlin wrote it so she was an ambassador of mutantkind working with Wakanda to protect African mutants, the union would’ve been natural and felt like a natural synergy between the two characters. T’Challa is a largely depicted as a reformist king and Ororo has always been one of the pro-human X-Men, their project could’ve been the start of an alliance that grew into a genuine romance. Not too unlike the Emma/Tony pairing in Duggan’s Iron Man. Instead the entire thing was rushed in like two arcs and all the political and social implications of the pairing went underexplored, forcing Ororo into a supporting role in T’Challa’s solo book. While successive Black Panther/Fantastic Four writers wrote Ororo with more agency, the damage was done.
like Wakanda gets teleported to the quantum realm or something and T'chala with a few people need to take refuge and it's in a wing of the X-Mansion
Oooooorrrrrrrrr T'Challa sets up the Wakandan Embassy in the grounds of the Xavier School? Or Wakanda has revamps the school from the ground up for the sake of its mutant children. Something less out of pocket.
Wakanda could open its borders to Mutants
She could always semi retire from the X-Men and only come back once in a while if they really need her
Respectfully, I absolutely hate that idea. Storm is one of the key figures of the X-Men and is recognized as a leader among the greater mutant population To do away with all of that to shoehorn her into Wakanda/Black Panther’s mythos is a borderline insult to the legacy of the character IMO
💯 Beyond her mutant abilities, people sleep on Storm’s other qualities. She is such a good leader of the X-men. She was a motherly figure to many younger mutants including Shadow cat. Her incredible composure has been known to calm down Cyclops, Wolverine and Magneto during various storylines. And through her lineage, she can harness the power of witchcraft. She doesn’t need to play the doting wife of the king. She is a goddess
Thank you. Whenever storm is referred to as a goddess or has some implication that her powers are a result of some legacy and not her mutation, I get annoyed because it takes away a core part of her character also. Storm is a powerful mutant but she’s still a mutant, something that shouldn’t be buried under ideas of being so powerful to be on the level of divine beings. She’s powerful because she mastered her mutation.
Why can't she be both goddess and mutant?
Because goddess takes precedent over mutant. Calling her a goddess takes away attention that she’s a mutant. Imo it gentrifies her.
She is worshipped in universe so why can't she be considered a goddess by their followers? You are drawing an arbitrary line that doesn't serve anything.
Even Magneto calls her a Goddess.
Maybe he could come be her bedfellow on X-men while somebody else rules Wakanda in BP. Then when they “really need him” he can go back.
Right, but x-men fans who like Storm would rather she be in the comics since they like her?
Yeah they're both such big characters in their respective worlds, neither deserves to end up the sidekick in the other's book.
The writers put them together just to fumble the relationship….
The law of comics demands that no superhero couple is allowed to stay happy. Im honestly shocked they haven’t broken up or fucked with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage yet.
Pretty sure that Bendis spent most of his later Avengers run building a plot wall around that relationship, and behind the scenes put death notes out on anyone that dares to fuck with the relationship.
Imagine Bendis actually built HYDRA in real life in order to eliminate people when even consider breaking up [redacted]
This doesn’t surprise me that the petulant child that is bendis who loves breaking and ruining other peoples toys, does not like to share or when people do the same thing to him
Wow, I’m not a Bendis fan, but it sounds like he personally hurt you. Daredevil reader?
Supersons but the fact their is more then one example is all that is need to prove my point
Supersons and Jon…you could throw legion of superheroes in that pile as wel.. It’s insane how much damage he did at DC despite only being around for a super short time
I also hate jobs boyfriends he’s worst then Bernard and that’s a really low bar though neither are as bad as Paul
I would not be mad at all if Jon got de-aged, implications be damned.
Shame nobody thought to put those notes for Peter and MJ.
And yet you have absorbing man and titania who are basically perfect for each other haha
I always sweat a little when Absorbing Man and Titania are in a comic. I just want them to stay this happy little couple, but they are small enough that a writer could kill on of them for a cheap emotional shock.
Titania is most safe she is the closest thing She-hulk has of a nemesis or main villain, Absorbing Man is also most safe, even if they kill him, because of how his powers work, any write can just revive him very easily, "oh he was never really dead, just taking his time to reform"
I loved them as part of Gamma Flight in Immortal Hulk
Gamma Flight was great in general, but their marriage was just amazing.
Same!
What about the fantastic four
Namor and DOOM from a distance:
"Someday Susan, that invisible booty will be DOOM's!"
"How do you do that...speak in all capitals like that?"
"Silence, minion"
There was the storyline where their kid turned purple and no one was sure if it was a trick or if she was actually Kilgrave's.
Because Jessica Jones and Luke Cage aren't popular enough to fuck around with like that, they're known enough, but no one is gonna fight you about "The importance of Luke Cage being single."
I see it as “hey we have these two prominent Black heroes. They should date!” It’s a nice storyline, but feels forced.
"She's black, he's black. They have so much in common" As much as a street urchin mutant from Cairo and a King from a reclusive sub-Saharan African country can. Which is, ummm, they are superheroes too? Sometimes, these are natural pairings, the rest of the time, it feels like an easy way to make a couple without thinking. Like, if you had one black friend/woman friend and try to force them on another one from a different circle of friends.
Exactly
I initially hated them for that reason. Then as time went on, the idea grew on me and I started to like it only for them to snatch it away.
1000%
And why were they specifically put together? African heroes? Black heroes? No other reason.
I feel that too, I like that they wanted to represent black love in media more but there was a better way they could’ve gone about it.
Don’t worry. It’s still comics so nothing is permenant and no one can die
They existed because ‘Black Heroes’ and then fell apart as soon as the writers saw their relationship wasn’t making them more popular.
Both of their popularity individually wasn't made overnight, it took time.If they give up before starting they are fulfilling their prophecy by not making a good story about them.
Contrived. Zero interraction between them for 40 years then suddenly paired off because African.
Not absolutely zero, there was some precedent in Priest's run for example But yeah Hudlin did nothing with them and then married em off
>there was some precedent in Priest's run for example And under Claremont too. Their first meeting was in Marvel Team-Up 100, I think: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Team-Up_Vol_1_100
See I knew there was more because their interaction in those issues were based on earlier continuity I just didn't know where from Thanks!
OK but explain [The Deep and Sister Sage](https://youtu.be/V1cE7KD2v3I). They don't like each other *at all* but suddenly they're a red hot hookup couple
Spoilers: >! I think the metal rod they showed at the end was a lobotomy pick, making sister sage dumber to unwind or sm, deeps just horny !<
Because Sister sage shoved the mental handicap baton inside her thinking cap, making her more like everyone else, horny and a slave to their emotions lol. I.E. she’s cosplaying neurodivergence and all that shit.
It think they were just horny.
Lieberstesh. The nonsensical "German" word the writer made up for nightcrawler to say at their wedding
As someone that speaks German this ticks me off so much
What was it supposed to mean? Did he just spell something in German wrong?
No clue. Liebe is love and stesh might be something they somehow got from "stehen" (to stand) but it’s nonsense Edit: oh maybe they tried to have him say "Liebsten" (favourites, beloved)
very forced. It's like hey let's just put are two popular African characters together. rather they be separate for good
It meant that Storm disappeared from the X-Men for a decade and hardly appeared in any of their big events. The relationship was not good enough to be worth the loss of the character.
They were married in 2007 during Civil War and broke up in 2012 during AvX, and during those 5 years she was a regular in Astonishing X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, X-Men (2010), Uncanny X-Men (2012) and appeared in Messiah Complex, Second Coming and Schism. They didn't reduce her appearances at all, they just did a Wolverine and had her in 30 places at once
And in how many of those events and stories did she have a major role? Zero. How many storylines or character interactions did she have in that period? Zero. She ignored the "deaths" of two of her close friends, the corruption of another, and even the genocide of her own species. If you're seriously telling me you don't think she had a massively reduced role in X-Men comics between at least 2007 and 2012, then you clearly haven't read any of the books you're talking about.
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While I agree with what you’re saying, couldn’t you also make the same argument for all of the Marvel couples that are both white? It’s just kinda a thing in media where both romantic leads are forced to be the same race, it definitely gives racial purity vibes, and a lot of the major superhero couples (Clark/Lois, Reed/Sue, Hawkman/Hawkgirl, Hank/Janet etc) were established before 1967’s ruling of Loving v Virgina, but it’s always kinda bugged me that it’s the “norm.”
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I think it is a matter of the fact that same race relationships are just more common, but just because statistics deem something as rare doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be represented, and I’m glad that there is a recent trend of inter-race relationships like Carol/Rhodey, Luke/Jessica, and Gwen/Miles (even if I just kinda dislike the pairing of Miles and Gwen in-general).
Most comic characters are White, side character or otherwise. It’s a simple consequence of that. The relative scarcity of non-White characters makes relationships where they’re put together feel forced.
Honestly I think I like Wolverine and Storm more as a couple.
But only as fuck-buddies. Given any alternative they’ll take it, but when they’re both single it’s fine They don’t really work as an actual couple- they have nothing in common and it doesn’t advance either of their stories
He’s no CRAIG of Arakko.
Craig is the fucking GOAT. Human astronaut somehow surviving in the insane Arrakko society, picking up two kids as he does, and banging the queen? He's the black John Carter of Mars.
I found it to be uninteresting.
It was forced, but you knew it was gonna happen sooner or later. So now it's done. Let's move on and not do it again.
I can completely understand why people criticize it for how forced it is: “We took our two most prominent black characters and paired them together,” but I just enjoy their dynamic together too much for me to say that I hate it. I especially liked when they took over briefly for Reed and Sue on the Fantastic Four. Definitely my favorite of the possible Storm love interests; Wolverine and Forge don’t cut it.
My personal favorite part of the whole relationship was when they finally got divorced and Storm could be her own hero again, instead of just "Black Panther's queen". Like, just to give you guys an idea, before this marriage happened, Storm was *the* female superhero not just in the X-Men, but in Marvel Comics as a whole. In the Marvel vs DC crossover, she was picked as the Wonder Woman equivalent. Then the marriage happened, and she faded into the background while Emma Frost kind of took over her place as the X-Men's co-leader with Cyclops (don't get me wrong, I love Emma, but it did happen), and they started pushing Captain Marvel as the main female superhero of Marvel, which if you ask me, never worked out. You could say this all happened because, during that time, the X-Men were getting stomped into the dirt thanks to corporate pettiness, which is also true, but it does rub me the wrong way that a popular black superhero got relegated to love interest for another (at the time) less popular hero just because he's also black, while two blue eyed blonde white women got pushed to her spot. That might just be me reading too much into it though.
Would’ve been cool to see them together in live action
I liked them as a couple and their dynamic was great. They regularly came to each other’s aid and help. Now theyre on and off again. But they basically got broken up by editorial and Chris Claremont (who also hated the idea and creation of Black Panther)
Why does Chris hate Black Panther?
I didn’t sleep well so my tired eyes read this as why does Chris hate black people lol
You might not be far off with that one given how he made his beloved kitty pryde drop the n-slur several times
He’s weird about Storm. She was his favourite, and he clearly had a bit of a thing for her. Old man fantasy-wise.
On the other hand, her with Forge was okay (and imho the better partner for her)
I could see Forge being chill enough to pull Ororo. She seems to dig the older, gruff guys. I still remember Storm and Wolverine randomly making out in issues (presumably more behind the scenes), at least in the 90's runs. It was weird, but also made sense.
Storm and Wolverine were also together for a while in the early 2010s. I think it was a case of an odd couple that seems weird at first, but makes sense the more you think about it given their core similarities and shared histories
He was certainly The Mont’s choice, but I don’t know if he was a better one. I just know that the man had an obvious Storm-fetish.
Dude had a _lot_of fetishes in his comics, if you know what I’m saying
Yeah, Claremont is a creep. Kitty with Peter when she was like 13 and hes 20. How many ladies got mind-controlled and "taken mind and body" by baddies. I loved his Xmen but in hes still creepy.
>Chris Claremont (who also hated the idea and creation of Black Panther) When did Claremont say he hated the *creation* of Black Panther? As far as I'm aware he only ever said that putting Storm and Black Panther together was a mistake and shouldn't have happened (which he was right about).
Possibly confusing the story that Claremont was in some kind of supervisory/advisor position/QA when Marvel Knights Black Panther was being produced. I believe he didn’t think much of it, causing Quesada to confront him and demand a bet on the book’s success.
It was a corporately shallow reason Marvel ever made them a couple. However, talented writers did a fairly good job with it and weaving in retcons to make it work. But it was always doomed to fail because it split Storm’s focus between Wakanda and X-Men duties, and she’s always going to default to X-Men stuff if push comes to shove.
I don’t know about popular, but personally, I never liked them together. I understand they had a thing when they were younger, but they just don’t work together.
X-Men fans hate it, Avengers fans like it or feel indifferent. I personally really like them as exes. The XoS issue Vita Ayala wrote was great
Bland
I'm a fan of both characters but the writing always makes me pick a side bc of how uneven and parasitic it is.
Sad to know it can never happen in the MCU because they will never recast T'Challa.
It felt forced, did not like it
I don't hate them together, but I like Storm more without bp
very forced and doesnt work
Devalues Storm a bit. Like she's putting a "Wakanda coat of paint" over her already killer vibe. I'm THRILLED she's getting a solo series, where she gets to fight space gods and not play second fiddle to Panther or even the rest of the X-Men for that matter.
Someone 6 both African they have to be a couple. " Could've done without this relationship ever happening.
They should've stayed together, IMO. One of the best couples to come along. BTW. The backing of Wakanda for Marvel's merry mutants would've been beneficial in the long run. Imagine a pile of broken Sentinals returned to sender by one of the most powerful nations in the Marvel Universe.
Feels forced. Like someone said “hey, we have two cool Black African star characters….that means that have to get married.” Like “oh, you’re from New York? Do you know Dave?” I wasn’t reading any of their stuff when this happened, so I can’t say whether they did anything good with it, I just know that it feels like it came from a dumb place.
T’Challa is the king of a nation with his own solo comic. His love interest is always gonna fall into a supporting character type of role like MJ in Spidey comics or Mera in Aquaman. Ororo isn’t really the type of character that fits in that position nor do her fans expect her to do so because she’s a leading character in her own right. She’s either leading her own X-Men team or second in command to Cyclops. T’Challa is better served by a love interest created within the BP comics that can play the role of queen while Ororo would be better off with a secondary X-Men character like Forge.
Forced
Very forced relationship...Xmen 97 will do it better if they get there.......won't happen in live action unless there is a full reboot of MCU..
I don't know but I hate it. BP should be in Wakanda and Storm should be wherever mutant stuff is happening. They just have very different priorities which will obviously clash at times (see X of Swords for a recent example). Edit - I'd be fine with it in the Ultimate universe, as Storm doesn't have the X-Men or other mutants there.
Yep, has vibes of Cartman trying to matchmake Token.
LMAOOOOO
Nope.
I think it should be less Storm married to T'Challa, and more T'Challa married to storm. Black Panther's cool and a little-bit powered, but Storm is a god.
Keep him away from her.
Storm and Logan are better together. BP Is a bit of a dick
Storm and Logan are pretty cute with a lot more charisma than Storm and T’Challa, but I can’t imagine them as anything more than a fling. Plus, Logan’s lovers tend to end up dead more often than not 😨
She could do better.
Idk
Mostly remember this relationship from their kid in that one TV movie, Next Avengers. Anyway, they seem like they’d work well enough.
Dynamic couple, but troubled.
People say it’s forced but I can’t think of a harder panel from any of their other relationships then in Hickmans time runs out where t’challa realizes with the world ending he would rather spend his last moment with storm then try to fight back.
They are better off with different people
Forced to be together, forced to be apart.
Dislike 👎🏼
I wasn't a fan when they first introduced it because it felt so shoehorned in, but they've done some good stuff with it in recent years, playing with the dynamic of the pull between love and duty, without resolving it eifher way. I like just having them live in the complexity and confusion of it.
Yea and I think that’s where Marvel wants to keep them too. T’Challa doesn’t have any other prominent love interests and Ororo and Logan are more of an occasional fling than lifelong lovers. Forge arguably works best for her but he tends to get sidelined in the X-books (though I think he’s leading X-force now). Marvel’s probably gonna have T’Challa and Ororo oscillate between close friends with benefits and political rivals til the end of time lol. Editorial knows it sparks controversy and there’s been some complex stories to come out of it like the X of Swords tie-in and the latter parts of the Coates Black Panther run.
I think the pairing seemed pretty shallow, besides, people seem to like Forge & Storm more. As for Black Panther, I haven't really read much of his stuff to know if there's someone from his comic history that's more of a better match.
Didn't like it, but most of Storm's relationships are weird. I liked Forged because he seemed to be the only one to actually like her for herself and not because she was some goddess. Storm definitely is a powerhouse I don't think she really needs to be the subject of romance. Just let her be a badass.
It was forced and felt a bit on the political side. Let storm be with forge and tchalla be with nakia . Have nakia be the wife, queen of wakonda and mother of tchalla's son who can be a little baby during the present time .
They should have these two break up and be paired with someone else because i feel this relationship doesn’t work or feels random
Personally, they’re a good pair. Perhaps as a political marriage it fits better, to ward off the naysayers, but storm is an expert tactician and warrior while T’chala is one of the greatest minds on earth. They put the power in power couple.
They are a perfect power couple in my mind. I think they are the perfect love intest for each other.
The blacker the berries the sweeter the juice
I love it not gonna lie
I'll ship it, but I liked Storm & Forge better.
Both are black, both are African, both are superheroes, and both are royalty. I mean, I GUESS it works…
I honestly don't like how T'challa is written when they're together, he's better off with someone else.
I’ll speak for forum posting fans since they are the loudest :) At firstthe internet hated the idea. Because it was forced. Fans were semi open if they were written well, they were not… like really not done well at all. We all got angry. They then broke up and we all cried at the lost potential …. At least this is how I interpreted it all… I personally feel like the best story is the storm become a real marvel goddess in black panther as one of there best couple stories.
The picture that OP posted helps to illustrate my issue with how they've been depicted. In it, T'Challa is seated on his throne, focused on the myriad responsibilities that come with being the sovereign of the world's most advanced country. And to his side is Ororo, lovingly supporting him, lightly caressing his arm and his back. There to support him as always. There's nothing wrong with it in the abstract. It's rather sweet. If I didn't know the history of either character, I'd say it looks great. The issue I have is that Ororo is literally more than an order of magnitude more powerful than T'Challa is. He's a Captain America-tier hero; she's an Omega-class mutant. He's respected as a king; she's been worshipped as a literal goddess. Most of the threats that Black Panther struggles with could be annihilated by Storm in seconds. Klaw? Electrocuted. Killmonger? Electrocuted. Conversely, if Black Panther tried to take on someone from Storm's rogues gallery...well...it would likely be time for another ceremony to declare a new Black Panther. This is not to say that men can't "marry up", or that powerful women can't choose romantic partners who are less powerful than they are. Quite the opposite: Storm goes quite well with Forge. (See below) But it's the traditional, overly patriarchal portrayal of Black Panther as the primary spouse and Storm as the supportive, demure spouse to his side that irks me. She is as regal as he is, far more powerful, and familiar with even greater degrees of reverence; Storm deserves better than to just be a "stand by your man" piece of arm candy. That's what I like about Storm and Forge. Forge is chill AF, and he never made any grandiose posturing that placed him above her. He knew she was far more powerful than he was, and he was cool with that. He loved her for who she was, and she for him, and that was all that mattered. It's not that I'm opposed to T'Challa and Ororo being married. But I'm irritated that many writers portray their marriage in a manner that requires Storm to "dim her light" so that she doesn't outshine her husband.
They don't work as a couple in fiction precisely because they would work too well in real life. They are the sort of people who would politely and formally get married, politely and formally raise some heirs for their kingdom, and then politely and formally die. In a fictional series where drama is important, they don't work because any conflict feels forced and out-of-character.
They are a good couple and they should have stayed narried.
Absolute tragedy that marvel made them break up.
Waste of opportunity not having a child between them. We’d have a Mutant heir to the Wakandan Throne. Sounds like exciting future story telling potential. Could drag Wakanda directly into X-Men affairs in a more intimate way.
It was good but seeing as Storm can’t fully commit to Wakanda, T’Challa should have another queen. I liked in the Ultimate universe how he was with Okoye. I would like to see more black couples in Marvel tho. They seem to hate black relationships
An okay relationship for Black Panther- he benefits from strong women as supporting characters. Terrible for Storm- she went from the leader of the X-men to playing second fiddle to T’Challa. Not bad thematically, as they do have an overlapping time spent in central-east Africa as teens, and they do share a love for the region and they’re both regal, but eh not very compelling from a thematic perspective. But then getting divorced? Fantastic. Both of them needed more broken loves in their past, and Forge x Storm comes off as a little cringe these days, since a lot of people missed the start of it and Lifedeath doesn’t sell it *that* much. Them having divorce fights is so fun
It turned Storm into a supporting character for T'Challa, little different from Shuri or Nakia. I'm not saying either Shuri or Nakia are bad characters or that they don't deserve the limelight or anything like the, but how often are they starring role main characters? This same thing was happening to Ororo when she was married to T'Challa. After all, the series didn't suddenly become "Storm and the Black Panther," it was still just "Black Panther" and, with him existing longer as a character, that's how it was always going to happen. T'Challa, even when he's getting his comeuppance, is still T'Challa, the Black Panther and King of Wakanda. He's led the Avengers who, as a result of the MCU (and Fox's mishandling of the X-Men), were a bigger team than the X-Men of the time, and he carries that extra clout. Storm, no matter how powerful or how popular she may be, can't stand against editorial. Also, I like the idea of Storm with Callisto or Yuki as partners better; they have more on page history and better chemistry than Ororo and T'Challa.
Only read a couple stories with them together, but I like the concept of "Goddess married to a king". Talk about power couple!
Fan service
There different countries why. But she's African right? It's cool as long as they explain how they navigate international boundaries
I loved it
They would be a good fit but always thought she would be better with others. Let her shine as part of a couple and in the xmen.
10/10 Would smash
I think people found it forced (and it kinda was) but I liked it. Especially now that she’s queen of Mars, it works. The goddess and the god-king
Hot.
I’m not too big of a comic book reader but personally I always liked storm paired up with wolverine(the 90s tv series made me want to see this couple more)
They're cute and a good couple but can be annoying because it can take away because the writing they have can take away from Storms importance to the X Men
It feels like these two are the new Peter and MJ
Great couple synergy, but not every writer does them justice
I like these guys a lot together. Sad it doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen again
Forced
I'm like why is the king unmarried and has no heirs
Endgame, with Storm joining the Avengers, I hope they rekindle something.
I think it works
Great idea, essentially having two sovereign's form a union (despite not being a queen, Storm is recognized as a Goddess throughout Africa). But terrible to execute because of her role and involvement with the X-Men.
It happened one writer too late
Wouldn't be the first it's happened, read Marvel Earth X for context
It came out of nowhere and without remotely as much set-up for how big they wanted to make it, but I do think that they are a good couple overall, and they should probably keep it going.
Two supremely powerful and hot people smooshin booties??? Yeah we fucks with it heavy
hmmmm....No sir! I don't like it!
No idea. I checked out of X-Men long before this happened. But I do know I don't like it.
I liked them
Meh, knew it wouldn’t last long
Would their children be the Thundercats?
Good concept art but, it was executed horribly.
We need a what if of them having a kid. Would be reat interesting to see what the purple heart flower does when combined with the X gene
I felt it was kinda unnecessary,it led to Storm not always being with X-Men due to being in Wakanda.
Hot
SO great. I love the entire idea, all the way down the line.
How much did they interact with each other before getting married?
This is what Jay Z and Beyoncé think they are
I was never a fan. If Storm is gonna be with anyone, I always liked Storm/Logan. But ultimately? I like Storm just living for herself. I don't like seeing her with a partner.
A little too on the nose
I liked them as a couple but not as much as Storm and Forge
Such a cute elite couple!!!
Idk what to say about them but their son Azari is very cool.
It was great in Hudlin’s book and their brief stint on the Fantastic Four, but consistently undermined by the X-Men writers.
Nothing, both are black
I wish it happen. That kingdom would be the most powerful and badass ever!
Seems like something than Eric Cartman and Cupid Me would approve and incentive.
Lucky bastard
I'd ship it
Storm & Logan make a more balanced couple.