I think it really is MMR related. Two seasons ago, I played against a bot every 5 or so games from 90 to 100. Last season I faced 0 bots between 90 to 100. Last season was much more difficult for me to climb the ranks.
My experience between the last two seasons explains why I see arguing and back and forth on this topic. Players might be having wildly different experiences in their climb.
Yup. When people say they face bots in the 90s I totally believe them. But when people say I just can’t recognize the bots (after making infinite for the past year) is when I get a little frustrated. I am more interested in determining WHY there is a difference.
My assumption is the difference is due to player’s internal MMR. If your MMR is high enough you will see bots all the way to infinite because the system is getting you back to where it feels your skill level is more quickly. That way top players don’t have to slog through ladder for as long to get back to infinite every season on reset.
Players with lower MMR will stop seeing bots at whatever rank their MMR equates to in terms of ladder rank. Because they’ve hit an equilibrium with where their skill level lies.
I’ve made infinite every season for over a year at this point. I used to not see bots in the 90s, but since around October of last year I’ve faced bots in the 90s each and every season. I believe around then my internal MMR finally crossed whatever threshold is set to determine that I am an “infinite level” player by their metrics (some combo of win rate, cube rate and collection level).
Yeah, i dont think its that simple but theres definitely some algorithm that determines these things with several factors in mind. Seems like amount of players playing, your mmr, and your CL all are part of it. Ive noticed there tends to be pools you get in. Sometimes I'm constantly winning and my cl goes up and then i get matched to decks which are a lot more expensive than mine. Other times ill find it seems like both bots and players have lower collections than me. Usually i just target those moments where my match ups are favorable and can just ride that for an hr or 2 to infinite. Def a way to game the algorithm more but hard to tell without knowing exactly what it is.
Having lived it myself, I believe you. I have made infinite almost every season (missed it once in the last 12). I feel like I almost never play bots anymore.
It depends, I don't "try hard" but I don't usually let super loose either - if someone snaps and I think I'm going to lose, I'll still retreat unless I'm just curious to see what their deck is. With that being said, I've been as low as around 5-6K and as high as 40K. It varies a lot.
This also happened to me. I've hit infinite every single season with relative ease, for the past 1.5 years or so.
... Except last season. As soon as I hit 90, I saw absolutely 0 bots, and was never really making any progress, just constantly bouncing between 90-95.
With just a few days left in the season, I hit 96, and suddenly I was seeing bots again, but if I typically see them every 5-7 games, it was more like every 10. Then oddly, once I finally hit infinite, my rank was like 15K, which is the highest I've ever been. I typically would finish between rank 25k-40k.
This season, it was back to my typical bot matches every 5-7 games in the 90s. I hit infinite yesterday thanks to abusing bots for 4-8 cubes every time I faced them. If not for the bots, I have no doubts I'd still be around rank 95ish right now with a long uphill climb left.
Similar story for me, but like a week before season end I had a day where I would play almost exclusively bots, like 3 out of 4.
Climbed from 93 to 98 real fast with easy 8 cubers, and then I started getting a different kind of bots, that would beat me last turn with absurdly accurate plays, always winning lanes by a single point and "reading" my plays (like I'd play iron man and same turn they reveal rogue there when I had no ongoing cards before, weird things but consistently).
That took me down to 95 in a pinch, as I said, all loses were very last turn surprises, I felt like I was a regular bot against players, haha.
I started getting the dumb bots again and made the climb easily in the end, but it was WEIRD, since I was getting no bots before that day.
This season is back to the usual bot every 5-10 matches, IDK what happened that day (it was not a patch or OTA day, and I had the latest client)
I don't know if it's due to MMR or not, but my experience definitely changes when the season changes. I used to get bots between 80 and 90, but never after 90. In the April season I didn't play against a single bot after 80. Once the May season started, bots were instantly back between 80 and 90 for me.
I've still yet to see a single bot above 90.
I think MMR is a factor. If we assume the distribution of MMRs among all players is Gausian (i.e. normal or bell-shaped), then there will be far more average MMR players than very high or very low MMR players.
So, when an average MMR player queues into a game, their pool of potential opponents is very large, and the game can easily match them against a human opponent. For very high and very low MMR players, the pool of potential opponents is much smaller, so the game is more likely to match them against a bot.
There's probably more to it than that, but that seems like a reasonable starting point.
Echoing this.
That said, I finish seasons around 40k consistently after cooking like Guy Fieri and with the same level of quality he's known for.
Let's not take our initial Infinite ranks as meaningful in any real way.
Why does that matter? Genuine question.
I was 18k when I hit infinite last season. Finished around 21k
Edit: why am I being downvoted for asking a question?
The exact details are unknown but in games with MMR when you win a game you win MMR, and when you lose a game you lose MMR. The same happens with snap points in infinite
Match Maker Rating or Match Maker Ranking or whatever. It's a hidden value that the game uses to determine how "good" you are at the game. Pretty much any game with a competitive multiplayer mode has one. They are generally kept hidden, and their exact parameters kept hidden to prevent players from manipulating them
Honestly, its hidden nature makes me feel like I'm being gaslighted. One moment I was doing fine with my deck / play-style at the same rankings, and when I play again in 2–6 hours or so, suddenly I am astonishingly bad at this game. Makes you feel like you're delusional and/or had a micro- brain aneurysm in that brief period.
Also: intuition that worked properly against one sub-group of players, suddenly starts working against you with the next.
Match making rating. It's the secret formula that they use to decide who you play against. Basically, 2 players with the same rating should be evenly matched.
The game doesn't have bot detection coded in to the match making algo. Those bots would be included in the pool of players depending on their performance and decks.
By your logic, there is 4 pools of players: low MMR, high MMR, average MMR and bots.
How would you perhaps explain the game decided "not enough real players, better put them with a bot so they don't wait too long"
Just to clarify, snap does not code bots to play the game to make it look popular like fortnight. They are actual players that downloaded software to progress battle pass and obtain ladder rewards effortlessly.
If they did have a more reliable to m detect bots, they would be banned - not matched again players that seem like the will have a lengthy queue time.
I think it’s MMR based, but it’s the system trying to get players back to their “correct” rank, rather than because the system struggles to find high mmr players a match. If it was just to speed up queue times you would face then randomly, not on a schedule. Scheduling bots for players to face actually decreases the player pool and, if anything, increases queue times. I’m sure the also use bots to solve queue time issues, but that’s far less frequent than the scheduled bots.
MMR might have something to do with it, but the fact that bot frequency is so closely tied to tier in the rankings is weird. I get bots exactly every 4 games now that I'm in the 70s. I was getting them every 3 games in the 60s. My MMR didn't suddenly change when I went from being in the 60s to in the 70s.
I also think region and time of play, play a factor. Basically match making tries to find you a match with similar MMR. If you play in low usage hours also likely to hit more bots due to not enough opponents.
The bell curve theory is true in my experience. When I have a higher ranking the next season I see more bots than when I tank a season.
explains that the game is literally P2W. With cards released like Loki or Hope Summers, streamers and paid players have a way higher chance to keep their MMR high and face bots, while we casuals that don't play 6 hours a day are only helping them keep their MMR high.
Great job SD.
I just saw evey single streamer match dozens and dozens of bots on their climb. It's extremely unfair and P2W.
I will never record it so I’m glad you did, but i 100% have faced little to no bots the last 2-3 seasons past level 80. I dont know why, but I know I’m not getting bots. I have also never reached infinite so my mmr shouldn’t be that high. I usually can get in the 90s and peaked at 98, but I’ll never be infinite and that’s okay😂
Did you finish last season ranked high? After I hit infinite I mostly will do conquest and a few battles on ladder here and there so I end up ranked 20k+
So I’m in a similar space to you CL and I generally finish seasons between 10-20k infinite rank. I see bots getting to rank 90 but hardly any after that. One in maybe fifteen. I much prefer not getting any bots at all so I’m happy with it. Small sample sizes but you might be on to something where the algorithm determines we “should” be around the other players fighting for infinite in the 90s. There are definite “pocket metas” and I see the same players often enough to make me think there’s a fluctuating group I’m a part of. I’m cool with it, more real games means more fun. Bot games are boring and hollow, what’s the point of achieving infinite if it isn’t a bit of a challenge?
It's specific to infinite ladder. Meaning if you tank after hitting infinite it has no affect on your MMR for climbing next season, two separate things
I barely play ranked after infinite unless conq queues are hella long, and end up around 20k+. Same as you i believe (~7300 snap points iirc)? But i face bots at 90+ maybe once in every 6-7 games. 17k CL on asia server if it helps.
Wondering if it's maybe because our player base in asia is much lower? For example even after a couple days of infinite i'm still mostly just facing the same 3-4 players.
I'm at ~3300 cl and currently at 93, I think this season so far I have only encountered 2-3 bots in day 1, today when I play games there're so many turn 1 Nebula or turn 2 Ravonna or turn 3 Thena&Kitty they just can't be bots...
The people who refuse to believe us aren't here to have a genuine discussion. They will keep moving the goalposts and die on their weird hill for some reason.
Makes you wonder though when people are making such wildly different claims about bots and you get dudes like 'deck based matchmaking' tagging on like the guy lower in comments
Lol no. Post your 45 mins if gameplay where you demonstrate matchmaking if you think it's happening to you. I've heard these claims for over a year with no evidence. Probably because anytime people bother to record anything they find no effect
I won't deny some of you aren't facing bots, but I firmly believe there should NO bots after week 1 in the 90s.
Bots keep queue times low, sure, but I despise the idea of people exploiting shitty bot logic for 8-cubers when they normally take 1-4 in a real game.
TLDR: If you want Infinite, do it against human beings (or humans running Agatha).
i agree with you, there shouldnt have bots in ladder
but the real scenario is as op said: some do face bots every other macth, while some never do, that should be adressed
> there shouldnt have bots in ladder
Bots have to exist so players can actually earn cubes. It would suck if there were a finite number of cubes out there each season.
Honestly, the top of the top and the bottom of the bottom cruise to Infinite on bots.
The people complaining about no bots are average types who want to try and coast themselves.
i just think bots shouldnt exist in ladder
the matchmaking in infinite (where the are none) dont take any longer than at ladder, even when you are top 200, so theres no need for bots to exist to smooth the queue time
No, it's just this person is making a claim based on 14 games, which isn't much at all.
EDIT: apparently it was 15 games, 9 of which OP won. OP is winning too much to get bots.
I don't make the rules, that's just how it appears to be. Why would the game think you need more easy wins if you're winning 9/15 games? Bots are easy wins that can be exploited for 8 cubes.
you just answered your own question
why should someone who has negative winrate / cuberate at their current rank be pushed up by bots? dont you think it makes way more sense if someone who is just deatroying oponents in his current ranks gets matched against bots to expedide his climb to where he should be?
that discussion aside, bots shouldnt exist in ladder
It's to my understanding bots serve two functions:
1. Inject cubes into the system
2. Lower matchmaking times
A good player is more likely to see bots because their MMR is so high that the game will struggle to find someone on their level to consider it "fair
A bad player is more likely to see bots to get cubes injected
An average player is the least likely to see bots because there are plenty of other players on their level, meaning there is no need for bots to inject cubes or shorten queue times.
ETA: with no bots in ladder there will always be players who never climb. It would create a finite amount of cubes.
>OP is winning too much to get bots.
That's moving the goalposts.
Yall use to insist that in the 90s you'll get bots once every 7 games.
So now how does it work?
How am I moving goalposts? OP said they're not facing bots in the 90s. They won 9/15 games. Bots are unlikely to appear if you're winning that much.
Anecdotally, I face a bot if I lose 2-3 games in a row.
>Yall use to insist that in the 90s you'll get bots once every 7 games.
I've never said this, so don't strawman me.
Yeah, I explained it here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/b9Q6Q6RQj7
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/4g7t4T9f3z
Hope that helps. If you’re going to continue to be rude though I don’t think I’m willing to help you learn.
Seems to me like you're just making stuff up based off anecdotes?
Thinking about it deeply, what you're claiming doesn't even make sense. It doesn't explain why someone can ping pong back and forth at a specific rank for as long as a week without facing a single bot.
If they wanted to maintain cube equity, they would just provide a set rate of bot encounters. They wouldn't reward the two extreme ends and actively punish the vast majority of players...
As a laddering system it makes even less sense, because why would they care about player rank when they already have a post infinite ranking system?
If my questions are too "rude" for you, I don't know what to tell you tbh.
>Thinking about it deeply, what you're claiming doesn't even make sense. It doesn't explain why someone can ping pong back and forth at a specific rank for as long as a week without facing a single bot.
Those would be the "average" players I mentioned in my other comments that I linked.
>Seems to me like you're just making stuff up based off anecdotes?
No, I'm using anecdotes from thousands of players I've interacted with, some of which frequent the top 100 each season. Players that spend countless hours in Snap. Based on this information I'm making reasonable deductions, not "making stuff up".
>If they wanted to maintain cube equity, they would just provide a set rate of bot encounters. They wouldn't reward the two extreme ends and actively punish the vast majority of players...
Sorry, where did I say anything about cube equity? Or what did I say that made you interpret it like that?
>As a laddering system it makes even less sense, because why would they care about player rank when they already have a post infinite ranking system?
Ultimately it's to keep their players (customers) happy. If a player has no players on their level to queue with, a bot will matched up against that player to prevent long queue times. If a player is "bad" they'll see more bots so they can get wins to "feel good." Typically bad players aren't even exploiting bots for 8 cubes anyways.
The goal is to keep players (customers) satisfied. If you're an average player getting an average win rate with average queue times, there is nothing really extra required to keep you satisfied.
As a laddering system it what you claim still makes zero sense. Why do I see bots regularly between 70 to 90 but 90+ I see 0?
If you say "my mmr is too high 70 to 90" shouldn't OP be seeing bots too based off his win rate? Wouldn't his high win rate imply that his mmr is also too high?
Doesn't that mean that the game has arbitrarily decided that rank 90 is for some specific mmr?
But wait your theory completely falls apart when applied to low mmrs. It wouldn't explain why some people *still see bots* post rank 90. You're telling me their mmr is low, but they're skilled enough to hit infinite? That's contradictory in and of itself.
Shouldn't you just admit that there is some mechanism to bot encounters that you clearly don't fully understand or are incapable of explaining?
Believe it or not, I have a hard time believing you've kept track of anecdotal evidence from "thousands" with no documentation or video evidence of it...
>As a laddering system it what you claim still makes zero sense. Why do I see bots regularly between 70 to 90 but 90+ I see 0?
I can't answer that without seeing all of your matches. If I had to guess it's because 90s are the true "challenging" ranks, but I'd need to see your match data to answer for you specifically. Every season, except Shaw season, I've seen bots in the 90s on my climb to infinite. It's also possible you're not identifying bots properly, but I wouldn't assume this to be true since I don't know you.
> If you say "my mmr is too high 70 to 90" shouldn't OP be seeing bots too based off his win rate? Wouldn't his high win rate imply that his mmr is also too high?
We're only basing it off of 15 games, so it's hard to say. Based on OP's on statements in other comments, they are a self identified average player. Therefore it lines up with the "average player gets less/no bots" thing I mentioned before.
> Doesn't that mean that the game has arbitrarily decided that rank 90 is for some specific mmr?
Possibly.
>But wait your theory completely falls apart when applied to low mmrs. It wouldn't explain why some people *still see bots* post rank 90. You're telling me their mmr is low, but they're skilled enough to hit infinite? That's contradictory in and of itself.
Getting to rank 90 (or infinite) isn't that impressive to be perfectly honest with you. Sorry if that sounds elitist. That said, if they're getting to rank 90 and seeing bots is it possible they might not be low MMR? It sounds like you're making up a scenario here.
>Shouldn't you just admit that there is some mechanism to bot encounters that you clearly don't fully understand or are incapable of explaining?
Sure, there are some bot mechanics I don't understand. Such as why do some bots snap immediately turn 1? It's extremely rare, but it does happen. For the most part, I have a good understanding of bot mechanics though. I interact enough with plenty of players to feel this way.
>Believe it or not, I have a hard time believing you've kept track of anecdotal evidence from "thousands" with no documentation or video evidence of it..
That's fair. I never intended to collect data points to present to anyone, I just did my own research for my own understanding in how to recognize and exploit bots for easier climbs each season. And I must say, it's a success considering I hit infinite in less than a day each season.
I interact with thousands of users every month in the official Marvel Snap Discord either directly or reading their messages. I also watch a variety of smaller streamers that never hit infinite before, or rarely hit infinite. It's a topic that interests me. Believe it or not, I said what I had to say. Feel free to disagree with me, I'm not here to change your mind.
I can confirm every season I stop getting any bot from rank 80 onward. To be fair I love this approach as I find matches against bots to be quite boring.
its kind of a bummer when you only want to reach infinite to stop playing at your own CL (and to get the rewards)
and its specially unfair when some never see bots and other see them every other match
So reading through the comments got me thinking… I have hit infinite 9 season in a row. But I really don’t care about my rank after that. I usually end up somewhere between 40k and 90k post-infinite. I’m also a very casual player. I’m at the point now that I (knock on wood) do not drop my rank. Last three seasons I go to 73 and I play until I reach infinite. It takes a couple weeks but once I hit 80 then 90 I don’t fall back.
All this is to say I don’t think I’ve played against a single bot in months. And definitely not after I get above 80.
I've played since launch and up until last season I legit almost never get bots, even earlier in the ladder. I thought I was, and that they were so smart until last season when I started getting a lot of bot matches and realized how dumb and obvious they are. And in turn realized I had not been competing with bots previously when I thought I was. I've also never seen a bot in the 90's.
I think it's regional. People near cities with a lot of players don't get as many bots. While people in rural areas get a lot of bots. I think SD just wants you to be in a match within a few seconds of hitting play and this is the easiest way for them to do it. Just a theory, and I could be completely wrong.
Bro, I swear to God, for me I didn't see a single bot in the 70s. I was trying to hit 80 last season, and kept getting close, but then fuck it up lol. Still, I didn't see any bots.
I think it’s MMR related. When I came back to the game and hit 60000 legend I saw no bots. Now I’m hovering around top 1k-2k depending on playtime and I face bots every 3 games
CL 14k, top 5k infinite (usually get to infinite in a few days after season reset - took me 2 days this time) and I see no bots between 90 and 100. Functionally it makes no difference to me but would be interesting to know why.
I was not seeing any bots in the 90s for the past few seasons either but strangely it changed this season.
Last season I think I finished around 7.2k because I stop playing ladder after getting to infinite and this season I'm on 6.7k points. Maybe my internal MMR got lowered?
I saw maybe 1 bot in the 90s this season, and probably one out of 5 in the 70s and 80s.
Anyone whining that the reason they can’t reach infinite when you did must be because you got bots and they didn’t is just coping.
They do exist but less so than the whiners think and more so than the folks that breezed to infinite think.
Was this recently?
I've noted before, I am slow. I see nearly 0 bots the first few weeks, then the last week start seeing more. I assume as players in the 90s start hitting infinite, there are less players to fill matches.
As somebody whose made infinite every season since modok but stopped spending on the game since pre Christmas, I've been very cynically wondering if the frequency of bots you see in your climb is related to the amount you spend on the game.... but surely that can't be right....
I've never seen confirmation from SD about which avatars bots can and cannot have, i thought that was all just player and fan site deductions or assumptions.
Bots won't have paid or variant avatars.
Bots won't have paid or conquest variants for cards.
Bots won't use that default silhouette avatar.
Bots won't have cards released after Daredevil (unless generated by a location/other car)
Bots won't have paid or infinite card backs.
SD never confirmed this per se, but this is all true. You can choose to believe it or not, that's up to you, but if you do believe it, it'll make identifying bots much easier. If you successfully identify you can easily exploit them for 8 cubes by throwing priority until turn 5 (by allowing them to win two lanes). They snap, you snap back, and win turn 6. There are some minor variations with bot snap mechanics, but that is true for the vast majority of bot interactions. Stuff like Limbo might throw it off.
That’s to make the video start at a certain time right? I wanted to make the video continuous so people didn’t think that I edited it. I don’t know how to add certain time stamps for each game starting like some streamers do though.
I’m less concerned with people watching the whole thing, just wanted to show it was unedited and people can skip through as needed.
I had seasons that I got 0 bots from 93->100
And two season where I had around 80% bots on my matchs from 93->100
One thing I noticed, when I was playing a LOT of bots, when I hit infinite I was around rank 10000
When I did not face bots I was around rank 30000 on Infinite
Might have something to do with this, but also could just mean that I climbed way faster when facing bots so there werent that many people in infinite yet.
It was very weird. 3 seasons ago it happened.
I knew the bots from the first card they played. Always the same variants and splits. Evertytime I saw a BW Angela or America chavez turn 1 it was a instant snap. Got to infinite in 6 days and I don't even play that much
I haven't played this game in a while, but back when I did play matchmaking seemed to be determined primarily by a combination of MMR and CL and you would get bot matches when they couldn't find a good match using those parameters. That obviously means someone with very high or low MMR or CL will get more bot matches, but also means that unlikely combination of the two probably will lead to bot matches as well. For example someone with a low CL but high MMR will likely have a tough time getting real matches because most players with a low CL are new and therefore have a low MMR.
I briefly skimmed the video. You got 15 games with 9 Wins, 1 Loss, 4 Escapes, 1 Tie. (Cube rate is a different story)
As stupid this may sound, you are winning too much (60% winrate), which is probably why you don't see any.
If I retreat or lose a lot of times in a row, then I almost always get a bot or a poor low-ranking Pool 2 player guaranteed afterwards.
my experience tells a different story
last season i climbed with almost zero bots and a 61% wr
this season i have almost 50 games, zero bots, and a 43% wr
i think people here are just overthinking, bot games have nothing to do with past ranking, current winrate, mmr, cl, it's only SD fucking up a system (as they do with everything else)
we are at a point in marvel snap where bot games are basically free 8 cubes, so they are almost like a reward, from this point we have 2 roads to correct the problem that a system where bots gives free cubes implies:
1: bots only gives/takes 1 to 2 cubes
2: a pitty system in matching against bots, leveraging everyone bot games to player games ratio
but we are to busy fighting each other to see where the real problem lies
I'm at 4.5k CL and ever since I got to 4k+ I haven't seen a single bot. Even last season where I was stuck at 75 rank for like a week, I didn't play a single bot.
When I was 3k CL, 1/5 games were bots and in 90+ rank there were no bots at all. I think Im at the middle of the bell curve where the most amount of people are at my rank so the game doesnt match me anymore with bots or they changed the matchmaking 2 patches ago.
Happened to me 2 season ago. Because I didn't play much after hitting infinite. This time I played ladder and kept my rank between 10000. Let's hope I see some bots
I don't really get how this proves they aren't bots. Your very first opponent made bot like plays in my opinion. I didn't watch the whole video but skimming thru it i didn't see you checking the names on known bots or anything. So if they don't emote how can you be sure it's not a bot?
Besides emoting, if they have varying times playing cards, have an infinite/spotlight border, playing meta decks, or have premium/unique avatars…I would say they are not a bot
I feel like I've seen bots play meta decks, but not like brand new ones, just ones that have been around a few weeks.
I really wish SD just made the bots have official names, that players couldn't copy. They already acknowledge there ARE bots, so i don't understand why the rest of the details are so secret and left to the players to solve. Oh well.
Thanks for the reply!
I think that might actually be interesting! Instead of “hiding” the bots, lean into it. Make them official and let the player know they are facing them. Give them extra energy or special effects to make it unique. I would much prefer that vs the current system.
I hadn't even considered special effects! Then they would be mini bosses, or the puzzles in some MTG video games.
You could do things like RogueBot- Rogue can copy ANY ability.
DeadpoolBot -deadpool costs 0. And you have to risk them making a giant deadpool.
Or maybe something simple like when the bot plays the named character it gets +2.
This season I think I screwed up cause I got to 70 for the first time last season and now I’ve noticed not just bots but bots making horrible turn 6 moves that no one would ever make. I’m at 68 currently maybe if I get higher it’ll change. I’m getting like 50/50 bot human currently
I was playing some C3 today in the 80s didn't get any bots. I switched to my ramp deck that has Domino faced 2 or 3.
I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
I don’t feel like watching 45 mins to search for bots tbh but sometimes you do just play a bot and snap and you’re agreed so it retreats. Shit happens. The 3, 5, 7 rule applies and rings true to me. I play a bot every 7th game. If it’s that rare then I may not even notice sometime. Especially if I snap and make it retreat because they often leave if you’re ahead.
For some reason my account is progression capped. I get bots or fake matches that are retreat only results after moving up every 10 ranks that are meant to extend our the playtime to get to 90. I guess if you get to 90 and stop playing as much they cap your progression to make sure you stay engaged with the game all month.
talking from my experience, this season i have faced 2 bots in about 60 macthes, starting from 73
my cousin, also starting from 73 told me that his experience is something like 7\~8 bot games every 10 matches
my cl is 4500, his is 3600
and that shouldnt happen
i have played at both sides of the spectrum, my first returning season was basically only bots on ladder, steamrolled all the way to inifnite rank 179, climbed to 160 (at this point i was considering myself good)
next season (and all of the season from there onwards) i consider myself luck if i see a bot every 50 or so matches
neither of these experiences are fine, and neither should be aimed for
My experience has been that you get bots within the range they drop you every season. If I ended a season at 90, I get bots until I hit 90 and then never again. If you hit infinite, I would assume you’ll get bots in the 90s, but anyone who didn’t hit infinite won’t.
I hit infinite for the first time in June 2023. I had some bots in my climbs for the next several months, making my climbs not too difficult. Until Dec2023 when they stopped completely. I thought I was doomed to the "no-bot 90's" forever, as it played out that way for several months until the last month when I actually saw them again (granted, like 1 in \~10 games, not frequent). I did change my playstyle quite a bit beginning in Feb, as I almost exclusively played conquest and stopped touching ladder after hitting 90 for the gold. I wonder if not playing ladder for a majority of the month dropped my mmr enough to start seeing them again? No idea honestly.
it's definitely MMR related, this season I got a bot once very 4 games on average in 90s, and ranked in top 5K infinite. Last season, 0 bots in 90s, top 20k infinite. never climbed so fast to infinite thanks to so many bots. I usually get there the last week of a season.
Im getting extremely frustrated with bot situation to a point I’m considering quitting the game. I have to play every month till rank 90 before actually enjoying the game a bit, it feels like 50% of the games between rank 77 and 90 are not infested and I’m not enjoying winning cubes against stupid AI. Anyone feel the same?
It is determined by some player performance data. I used to get bots in 90s, absolutely 100%, but it hasn't been the case for the last two or three months
I understand that not everyone is getting bots, but the presence of bots is easily proven. I can capture some screenshots/vids next time as I’m currently sitting at 97.
Season before last I couldn't get above 35. Last season I got to 80. Not always on my laptop for the companion app but when I was I could see at least a quarter of my battles were against bots.
My collection level is super low, I still don't have all series 3 cards. I think it's partially just trying its best to match make and when it can't offer me a fair to semi-fair game, it will offer a bot. I'll take it for now because I know the more cards I get, the harder my opponents should become.
Just got a bot this morning at 98. Now infinite but there are definitely bots throughout all of the climb. I'm sure they attempt to have less the higher rank you are but there will always be bots for the sake of quicker matchmaking and injecting cubes into the game.
A few seasons back there was a MMR glitch that I was impacted by (I know this because I received 500 gold as compensation for my MMR being impacted) and that morning I faced nearly exclusively bots from 93-100.
I just down vote these posts because I think it's hilariously stupid that people are complaining about playing REAL people.
But
I think the reason these posts get so much pushback or push..forward is because there are a lot of people making false claims or at the very least unsubstantiated ones.
Like now it's just no bots in the 90s , no bots at all, no bots until the 90s ? Just no bots for high MMR, but no wait I have no bots but I'm low MMR. No bots this season but bots last season?
It just makes it sound like a bunch of people tilted and using 'no bots' as a catch all answer as to why
I mean, 14 matches isn't a large sample size at all...
Not nearly enough data to make the claim you're making.
EDIT: apparently it was 15 games, 9 of which OP won. OP is winning too much to get bots.
Maybe, but it could also just be you're unlucky. I'm in contact with a lot of the top players, often ranking in top 100, and based off their anecdotes it seems like if you have higher snap points (or MMR) you will be more likely to face bots since the game can't find someone on your level.
On the other side of the coin, if you're "bad" then you'll likely see bots to inject cubes into the system. Being an "average" player seems to result in the least amount of bots as the game has no problem matchmaking you with other people at your level.
Time of day and location could also factor into this. If you're playing at a time where more players are active, one can presume you're more likely to face humans rather than bots, especially if you're an "average" player.
And I'm not saying this is you, because you correctly identified none of these were bots, but some people are legit unable to tell bots apart from real players. In fact, in this very comment section someone thought the first person you played was a bot despite it being impossible for bots to own that avatar.
I am the epitome of their “average” player, no doubt. So that makes total sense that people in the middle of the bell curve face less bots. Maybe it’s as simple as that?
Update: I just went on a 0-5 and down 16 cubes but still seeing infinite conquest borders lol. Fun times!
Update 2: 1-9, down 20+ cubes and 3 ranks. Still no bots. I’m too average of a player it seems.
Update 3: 1-13, back down to the 80s! I solved the problem!! First opponent at rank 89 was a bot! 🤣🤣
Are you a member of the Marvel Snap Discord server? If so, hop in VC some time. I'm typically hanging out there. Same username, but my server username is "Exhukkari" right now to fit in with this season.
Bro I pointed this out on the 3rd day of release. I figured out they use bots (easy ones) for new players to get them to continue playing and often times if you do bad enough it will continue to use bots for a while if no one is the same MMR or whatever they use. I notice the same thing at higher levels as well if you do too well it starts hitting you with counter decks. There's all kinds of little tricks they pull.
If you are the originator of a certain type of deck the system has no idea who to place you against until the AI figures it out which can take almost a whole season I've noticed. I believe they're using some sort of MMR/AI system. Where the AI determines who you fight.
Not facing bots in the 90s? Do people also not know there is an add-on for the game, that literally tells you if the opponent is a bot? I get bots all the time, if you play at certain times. You get a shitload of bot opponents. What determines if you play against a bot, is basically how many human players are on and in your level neighborhood. If it’s not many. They send armies of bots to face you.
Since you can tell who are bots, are there different kinds of bots? I'm still new and can't really tell when I see a bot or not. I used to assume they were those that made stupid plays like not retreating and then playing a card that mathematically wouldn't win the game no matter what I did. But after reading this sub, I'm not sure sure anymore since there seems to be a sizeable group that wants to play it out regardless.
They are a bit more varied, some will snap early then retreat. Some stick with the match even if you snap back. Decks are kind of varied, so like a basic destroy deck and a basic move deck and so on. The ones that play to the end of matches will make absurdly stupid plays. I’ve tried loosing a couple matches and won both cause the bot made such bad moves. For science of course
It is. iOS won't allow access to the kind of information that would support those apps and Android made a system change at the end of last year that means they also can't access that information.
So yeah PC only until someone finds a work around on mobile.
That add-on for untapped has been incorrect lately. It said opponents were bots despite having series 4-5 cards (something bots can't have) and missed obvious bots. I wouldn't rely on that.
on YOUR ladder hahahaha
my experience goes as follows:
1 bot match every 30 to 40 human matches, all the way from 73 to 100
ranking 10k last season, cl 4500, playing mostly in the first 2 weeks (after that i usually hit infinite)
you can reduce my cl for what we usually grow in one month for every season since january, the experience is still the same
I think it really is MMR related. Two seasons ago, I played against a bot every 5 or so games from 90 to 100. Last season I faced 0 bots between 90 to 100. Last season was much more difficult for me to climb the ranks. My experience between the last two seasons explains why I see arguing and back and forth on this topic. Players might be having wildly different experiences in their climb.
Yup. When people say they face bots in the 90s I totally believe them. But when people say I just can’t recognize the bots (after making infinite for the past year) is when I get a little frustrated. I am more interested in determining WHY there is a difference.
My assumption is the difference is due to player’s internal MMR. If your MMR is high enough you will see bots all the way to infinite because the system is getting you back to where it feels your skill level is more quickly. That way top players don’t have to slog through ladder for as long to get back to infinite every season on reset. Players with lower MMR will stop seeing bots at whatever rank their MMR equates to in terms of ladder rank. Because they’ve hit an equilibrium with where their skill level lies. I’ve made infinite every season for over a year at this point. I used to not see bots in the 90s, but since around October of last year I’ve faced bots in the 90s each and every season. I believe around then my internal MMR finally crossed whatever threshold is set to determine that I am an “infinite level” player by their metrics (some combo of win rate, cube rate and collection level).
Honestly my assumption was the opposite - as I've gotten better, I feel like I've seen less bots...
It’s a bit of a inverse bell curve
You are right, bots are far worse than real players so if this commenter is seeing bots he has actually gotten worse at the game. Sorry pal.
You are right, bots are far worse than real players so if this commenter is seeing bots he has actually gotten worse at the game. Sorry pal.
no he isn't lol. his internal MMR is too high, so it can't find matches with similar skill level fast enough, so it puts him with bots instead.
Yea it's a bell curve. You see more bots at either end of the spectrum.
Yeah, i dont think its that simple but theres definitely some algorithm that determines these things with several factors in mind. Seems like amount of players playing, your mmr, and your CL all are part of it. Ive noticed there tends to be pools you get in. Sometimes I'm constantly winning and my cl goes up and then i get matched to decks which are a lot more expensive than mine. Other times ill find it seems like both bots and players have lower collections than me. Usually i just target those moments where my match ups are favorable and can just ride that for an hr or 2 to infinite. Def a way to game the algorithm more but hard to tell without knowing exactly what it is.
Having lived it myself, I believe you. I have made infinite almost every season (missed it once in the last 12). I feel like I almost never play bots anymore.
I’m just curious. Where are you usually ranked in infinite at the end of season?
It depends, I don't "try hard" but I don't usually let super loose either - if someone snaps and I think I'm going to lose, I'll still retreat unless I'm just curious to see what their deck is. With that being said, I've been as low as around 5-6K and as high as 40K. It varies a lot.
This also happened to me. I've hit infinite every single season with relative ease, for the past 1.5 years or so. ... Except last season. As soon as I hit 90, I saw absolutely 0 bots, and was never really making any progress, just constantly bouncing between 90-95. With just a few days left in the season, I hit 96, and suddenly I was seeing bots again, but if I typically see them every 5-7 games, it was more like every 10. Then oddly, once I finally hit infinite, my rank was like 15K, which is the highest I've ever been. I typically would finish between rank 25k-40k. This season, it was back to my typical bot matches every 5-7 games in the 90s. I hit infinite yesterday thanks to abusing bots for 4-8 cubes every time I faced them. If not for the bots, I have no doubts I'd still be around rank 95ish right now with a long uphill climb left.
Similar story for me, but like a week before season end I had a day where I would play almost exclusively bots, like 3 out of 4. Climbed from 93 to 98 real fast with easy 8 cubers, and then I started getting a different kind of bots, that would beat me last turn with absurdly accurate plays, always winning lanes by a single point and "reading" my plays (like I'd play iron man and same turn they reveal rogue there when I had no ongoing cards before, weird things but consistently). That took me down to 95 in a pinch, as I said, all loses were very last turn surprises, I felt like I was a regular bot against players, haha. I started getting the dumb bots again and made the climb easily in the end, but it was WEIRD, since I was getting no bots before that day. This season is back to the usual bot every 5-10 matches, IDK what happened that day (it was not a patch or OTA day, and I had the latest client)
Similar story, I spent 2 weeks bouncing between 95-98, when I finally broke though I was near the top 10K. So weird.
This exact thing happened to me.
I don't know if it's due to MMR or not, but my experience definitely changes when the season changes. I used to get bots between 80 and 90, but never after 90. In the April season I didn't play against a single bot after 80. Once the May season started, bots were instantly back between 80 and 90 for me. I've still yet to see a single bot above 90.
I never get bots after 90, normally if I slip to 89 I'll get bots again until I hit 90
same, never fails after ever single dip back into 89 it'd be a bot match that would shoot me 8 cubes
I think MMR is a factor. If we assume the distribution of MMRs among all players is Gausian (i.e. normal or bell-shaped), then there will be far more average MMR players than very high or very low MMR players. So, when an average MMR player queues into a game, their pool of potential opponents is very large, and the game can easily match them against a human opponent. For very high and very low MMR players, the pool of potential opponents is much smaller, so the game is more likely to match them against a bot. There's probably more to it than that, but that seems like a reasonable starting point.
I agree. I’m definitely an average player, and this logic makes the most sense.
[удалено]
6822, rank 5417
FWIW just adding on, hit infinite today, 6898 SP and 5032 CL. Faced very few bots.
Echoing this. That said, I finish seasons around 40k consistently after cooking like Guy Fieri and with the same level of quality he's known for. Let's not take our initial Infinite ranks as meaningful in any real way.
Why does that matter? Genuine question. I was 18k when I hit infinite last season. Finished around 21k Edit: why am I being downvoted for asking a question?
Because it's probably correlated to your MMR 18k and 21k is your rank, not your SP
I get that, I'm asking how it's correlated. Ya, you're right. That was my rank, What is SP?
Snap Points
The exact details are unknown but in games with MMR when you win a game you win MMR, and when you lose a game you lose MMR. The same happens with snap points in infinite
So you’re saying I can lose 50 games in a row, tank my MMR, then face mostly bots.
But then you'll win 50 games in a row against bots and end up right back where you started
lol that was kinda the joke I was going for but didn’t explain the irony enough.
That's impossible. Losing 1-2 cubes 50 times and winning 4-8 50 cubes is a net positive.
Were talking about mmr, not cubes. We dont know if it takes cubes into account
wtf is mmr 😭 i see everyone talk about it
Match Maker Rating or Match Maker Ranking or whatever. It's a hidden value that the game uses to determine how "good" you are at the game. Pretty much any game with a competitive multiplayer mode has one. They are generally kept hidden, and their exact parameters kept hidden to prevent players from manipulating them
Honestly, its hidden nature makes me feel like I'm being gaslighted. One moment I was doing fine with my deck / play-style at the same rankings, and when I play again in 2–6 hours or so, suddenly I am astonishingly bad at this game. Makes you feel like you're delusional and/or had a micro- brain aneurysm in that brief period. Also: intuition that worked properly against one sub-group of players, suddenly starts working against you with the next.
Match making rating. It's the secret formula that they use to decide who you play against. Basically, 2 players with the same rating should be evenly matched.
The game doesn't have bot detection coded in to the match making algo. Those bots would be included in the pool of players depending on their performance and decks. By your logic, there is 4 pools of players: low MMR, high MMR, average MMR and bots. How would you perhaps explain the game decided "not enough real players, better put them with a bot so they don't wait too long" Just to clarify, snap does not code bots to play the game to make it look popular like fortnight. They are actual players that downloaded software to progress battle pass and obtain ladder rewards effortlessly. If they did have a more reliable to m detect bots, they would be banned - not matched again players that seem like the will have a lengthy queue time.
I think it’s MMR based, but it’s the system trying to get players back to their “correct” rank, rather than because the system struggles to find high mmr players a match. If it was just to speed up queue times you would face then randomly, not on a schedule. Scheduling bots for players to face actually decreases the player pool and, if anything, increases queue times. I’m sure the also use bots to solve queue time issues, but that’s far less frequent than the scheduled bots.
MMR might have something to do with it, but the fact that bot frequency is so closely tied to tier in the rankings is weird. I get bots exactly every 4 games now that I'm in the 70s. I was getting them every 3 games in the 60s. My MMR didn't suddenly change when I went from being in the 60s to in the 70s.
I also think region and time of play, play a factor. Basically match making tries to find you a match with similar MMR. If you play in low usage hours also likely to hit more bots due to not enough opponents. The bell curve theory is true in my experience. When I have a higher ranking the next season I see more bots than when I tank a season.
Day of the season also matters. Playing on reset helps a lot.
explains that the game is literally P2W. With cards released like Loki or Hope Summers, streamers and paid players have a way higher chance to keep their MMR high and face bots, while we casuals that don't play 6 hours a day are only helping them keep their MMR high. Great job SD. I just saw evey single streamer match dozens and dozens of bots on their climb. It's extremely unfair and P2W.
I will never record it so I’m glad you did, but i 100% have faced little to no bots the last 2-3 seasons past level 80. I dont know why, but I know I’m not getting bots. I have also never reached infinite so my mmr shouldn’t be that high. I usually can get in the 90s and peaked at 98, but I’ll never be infinite and that’s okay😂
Lol I debated recording it for the last few months 😂
If i was okay dealing with the criticism of my gameplay i may have. But i make some dumb plays and play high a lot. I can’t take that embarrassment 😂
Haha so true. We all make mistakes and everyone acts like a pro with the benefit of hindsight!
I faced 3-4 bots from 93 to 100 this season. CL 13829
Did you finish last season ranked high? After I hit infinite I mostly will do conquest and a few battles on ladder here and there so I end up ranked 20k+
So I’m in a similar space to you CL and I generally finish seasons between 10-20k infinite rank. I see bots getting to rank 90 but hardly any after that. One in maybe fifteen. I much prefer not getting any bots at all so I’m happy with it. Small sample sizes but you might be on to something where the algorithm determines we “should” be around the other players fighting for infinite in the 90s. There are definite “pocket metas” and I see the same players often enough to make me think there’s a fluctuating group I’m a part of. I’m cool with it, more real games means more fun. Bot games are boring and hollow, what’s the point of achieving infinite if it isn’t a bit of a challenge?
That’s a good point, you’re not wrong about it being more rewarding. It takes a bit longer but we will get there eventually!
MMR isn't adjusted after infinite
I find that very difficult to believe given we see a metric that's arguably analogous to MMR and feeds into our rank in the ladder.
It's specific to infinite ladder. Meaning if you tank after hitting infinite it has no affect on your MMR for climbing next season, two separate things
I finish consistently in the top 5k and faced loads of bots in the 90s today
I barely play ranked after infinite unless conq queues are hella long, and end up around 20k+. Same as you i believe (~7300 snap points iirc)? But i face bots at 90+ maybe once in every 6-7 games. 17k CL on asia server if it helps. Wondering if it's maybe because our player base in asia is much lower? For example even after a couple days of infinite i'm still mostly just facing the same 3-4 players.
I'm at ~3300 cl and currently at 93, I think this season so far I have only encountered 2-3 bots in day 1, today when I play games there're so many turn 1 Nebula or turn 2 Ravonna or turn 3 Thena&Kitty they just can't be bots...
The people who refuse to believe us aren't here to have a genuine discussion. They will keep moving the goalposts and die on their weird hill for some reason.
Makes you wonder though when people are making such wildly different claims about bots and you get dudes like 'deck based matchmaking' tagging on like the guy lower in comments
The same people who say that your deck is not part of the matchmaking logic
Lol no. Post your 45 mins if gameplay where you demonstrate matchmaking if you think it's happening to you. I've heard these claims for over a year with no evidence. Probably because anytime people bother to record anything they find no effect
I won't deny some of you aren't facing bots, but I firmly believe there should NO bots after week 1 in the 90s. Bots keep queue times low, sure, but I despise the idea of people exploiting shitty bot logic for 8-cubers when they normally take 1-4 in a real game. TLDR: If you want Infinite, do it against human beings (or humans running Agatha).
i agree with you, there shouldnt have bots in ladder but the real scenario is as op said: some do face bots every other macth, while some never do, that should be adressed
> there shouldnt have bots in ladder Bots have to exist so players can actually earn cubes. It would suck if there were a finite number of cubes out there each season.
Honestly, the top of the top and the bottom of the bottom cruise to Infinite on bots. The people complaining about no bots are average types who want to try and coast themselves.
i just think bots shouldnt exist in ladder the matchmaking in infinite (where the are none) dont take any longer than at ladder, even when you are top 200, so theres no need for bots to exist to smooth the queue time
No, it's just this person is making a claim based on 14 games, which isn't much at all. EDIT: apparently it was 15 games, 9 of which OP won. OP is winning too much to get bots.
and why should a person that is losing too much be compensated with 8 cubes in the form of a bot match? i missed that point
I don't make the rules, that's just how it appears to be. Why would the game think you need more easy wins if you're winning 9/15 games? Bots are easy wins that can be exploited for 8 cubes.
you just answered your own question why should someone who has negative winrate / cuberate at their current rank be pushed up by bots? dont you think it makes way more sense if someone who is just deatroying oponents in his current ranks gets matched against bots to expedide his climb to where he should be? that discussion aside, bots shouldnt exist in ladder
It's to my understanding bots serve two functions: 1. Inject cubes into the system 2. Lower matchmaking times A good player is more likely to see bots because their MMR is so high that the game will struggle to find someone on their level to consider it "fair A bad player is more likely to see bots to get cubes injected An average player is the least likely to see bots because there are plenty of other players on their level, meaning there is no need for bots to inject cubes or shorten queue times. ETA: with no bots in ladder there will always be players who never climb. It would create a finite amount of cubes.
>OP is winning too much to get bots. That's moving the goalposts. Yall use to insist that in the 90s you'll get bots once every 7 games. So now how does it work?
How am I moving goalposts? OP said they're not facing bots in the 90s. They won 9/15 games. Bots are unlikely to appear if you're winning that much. Anecdotally, I face a bot if I lose 2-3 games in a row. >Yall use to insist that in the 90s you'll get bots once every 7 games. I've never said this, so don't strawman me.
I'll ask you again, since you have some secret inside knowledge, how do the bots work?
Yeah, I explained it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/b9Q6Q6RQj7 https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/s/4g7t4T9f3z Hope that helps. If you’re going to continue to be rude though I don’t think I’m willing to help you learn.
Seems to me like you're just making stuff up based off anecdotes? Thinking about it deeply, what you're claiming doesn't even make sense. It doesn't explain why someone can ping pong back and forth at a specific rank for as long as a week without facing a single bot. If they wanted to maintain cube equity, they would just provide a set rate of bot encounters. They wouldn't reward the two extreme ends and actively punish the vast majority of players... As a laddering system it makes even less sense, because why would they care about player rank when they already have a post infinite ranking system? If my questions are too "rude" for you, I don't know what to tell you tbh.
>Thinking about it deeply, what you're claiming doesn't even make sense. It doesn't explain why someone can ping pong back and forth at a specific rank for as long as a week without facing a single bot. Those would be the "average" players I mentioned in my other comments that I linked. >Seems to me like you're just making stuff up based off anecdotes? No, I'm using anecdotes from thousands of players I've interacted with, some of which frequent the top 100 each season. Players that spend countless hours in Snap. Based on this information I'm making reasonable deductions, not "making stuff up". >If they wanted to maintain cube equity, they would just provide a set rate of bot encounters. They wouldn't reward the two extreme ends and actively punish the vast majority of players... Sorry, where did I say anything about cube equity? Or what did I say that made you interpret it like that? >As a laddering system it makes even less sense, because why would they care about player rank when they already have a post infinite ranking system? Ultimately it's to keep their players (customers) happy. If a player has no players on their level to queue with, a bot will matched up against that player to prevent long queue times. If a player is "bad" they'll see more bots so they can get wins to "feel good." Typically bad players aren't even exploiting bots for 8 cubes anyways. The goal is to keep players (customers) satisfied. If you're an average player getting an average win rate with average queue times, there is nothing really extra required to keep you satisfied.
As a laddering system it what you claim still makes zero sense. Why do I see bots regularly between 70 to 90 but 90+ I see 0? If you say "my mmr is too high 70 to 90" shouldn't OP be seeing bots too based off his win rate? Wouldn't his high win rate imply that his mmr is also too high? Doesn't that mean that the game has arbitrarily decided that rank 90 is for some specific mmr? But wait your theory completely falls apart when applied to low mmrs. It wouldn't explain why some people *still see bots* post rank 90. You're telling me their mmr is low, but they're skilled enough to hit infinite? That's contradictory in and of itself. Shouldn't you just admit that there is some mechanism to bot encounters that you clearly don't fully understand or are incapable of explaining? Believe it or not, I have a hard time believing you've kept track of anecdotal evidence from "thousands" with no documentation or video evidence of it...
>As a laddering system it what you claim still makes zero sense. Why do I see bots regularly between 70 to 90 but 90+ I see 0? I can't answer that without seeing all of your matches. If I had to guess it's because 90s are the true "challenging" ranks, but I'd need to see your match data to answer for you specifically. Every season, except Shaw season, I've seen bots in the 90s on my climb to infinite. It's also possible you're not identifying bots properly, but I wouldn't assume this to be true since I don't know you. > If you say "my mmr is too high 70 to 90" shouldn't OP be seeing bots too based off his win rate? Wouldn't his high win rate imply that his mmr is also too high? We're only basing it off of 15 games, so it's hard to say. Based on OP's on statements in other comments, they are a self identified average player. Therefore it lines up with the "average player gets less/no bots" thing I mentioned before. > Doesn't that mean that the game has arbitrarily decided that rank 90 is for some specific mmr? Possibly. >But wait your theory completely falls apart when applied to low mmrs. It wouldn't explain why some people *still see bots* post rank 90. You're telling me their mmr is low, but they're skilled enough to hit infinite? That's contradictory in and of itself. Getting to rank 90 (or infinite) isn't that impressive to be perfectly honest with you. Sorry if that sounds elitist. That said, if they're getting to rank 90 and seeing bots is it possible they might not be low MMR? It sounds like you're making up a scenario here. >Shouldn't you just admit that there is some mechanism to bot encounters that you clearly don't fully understand or are incapable of explaining? Sure, there are some bot mechanics I don't understand. Such as why do some bots snap immediately turn 1? It's extremely rare, but it does happen. For the most part, I have a good understanding of bot mechanics though. I interact enough with plenty of players to feel this way. >Believe it or not, I have a hard time believing you've kept track of anecdotal evidence from "thousands" with no documentation or video evidence of it.. That's fair. I never intended to collect data points to present to anyone, I just did my own research for my own understanding in how to recognize and exploit bots for easier climbs each season. And I must say, it's a success considering I hit infinite in less than a day each season. I interact with thousands of users every month in the official Marvel Snap Discord either directly or reading their messages. I also watch a variety of smaller streamers that never hit infinite before, or rarely hit infinite. It's a topic that interests me. Believe it or not, I said what I had to say. Feel free to disagree with me, I'm not here to change your mind.
I can confirm every season I stop getting any bot from rank 80 onward. To be fair I love this approach as I find matches against bots to be quite boring.
its kind of a bummer when you only want to reach infinite to stop playing at your own CL (and to get the rewards) and its specially unfair when some never see bots and other see them every other match
The dumb stuff bots do is always entertaining.
So reading through the comments got me thinking… I have hit infinite 9 season in a row. But I really don’t care about my rank after that. I usually end up somewhere between 40k and 90k post-infinite. I’m also a very casual player. I’m at the point now that I (knock on wood) do not drop my rank. Last three seasons I go to 73 and I play until I reach infinite. It takes a couple weeks but once I hit 80 then 90 I don’t fall back. All this is to say I don’t think I’ve played against a single bot in months. And definitely not after I get above 80.
I have a very similar play style so that’s probably not a coincidence.
I know I saw a ton of Tribunal decks, so I added Super Skrull to my deck and now all I see she mill and destroy 🤣
I added killmonger to take care of kitty who I was seeing constantly last season. Never saw her again until I removed killmonger from my deck
if only killmonger was as good as it should be against kitty, but unfortunally the priority flip is always bad in this scenario
Haha always seems to work that way!
I've played since launch and up until last season I legit almost never get bots, even earlier in the ladder. I thought I was, and that they were so smart until last season when I started getting a lot of bot matches and realized how dumb and obvious they are. And in turn realized I had not been competing with bots previously when I thought I was. I've also never seen a bot in the 90's. I think it's regional. People near cities with a lot of players don't get as many bots. While people in rural areas get a lot of bots. I think SD just wants you to be in a match within a few seconds of hitting play and this is the easiest way for them to do it. Just a theory, and I could be completely wrong.
Nope I think that definitely plays a factor.
i play in a country where marvel snap is basically non existing (so very few players near me) and still 1 bot every 30\~40 macthes
Bro, I swear to God, for me I didn't see a single bot in the 70s. I was trying to hit 80 last season, and kept getting close, but then fuck it up lol. Still, I didn't see any bots.
I think it’s MMR related. When I came back to the game and hit 60000 legend I saw no bots. Now I’m hovering around top 1k-2k depending on playtime and I face bots every 3 games
the secret is to play prepatch and play nothing but bots. Climbed in one night to infinite
Haha the real LPT is always in the comments!
CL 14k, top 5k infinite (usually get to infinite in a few days after season reset - took me 2 days this time) and I see no bots between 90 and 100. Functionally it makes no difference to me but would be interesting to know why.
Yes I’m way more interested in the why, it hasn’t ever prevented me from reaching infinite. Just delays it a bit haha
I was not seeing any bots in the 90s for the past few seasons either but strangely it changed this season. Last season I think I finished around 7.2k because I stop playing ladder after getting to infinite and this season I'm on 6.7k points. Maybe my internal MMR got lowered?
I saw maybe 1 bot in the 90s this season, and probably one out of 5 in the 70s and 80s. Anyone whining that the reason they can’t reach infinite when you did must be because you got bots and they didn’t is just coping. They do exist but less so than the whiners think and more so than the folks that breezed to infinite think.
Was this recently? I've noted before, I am slow. I see nearly 0 bots the first few weeks, then the last week start seeing more. I assume as players in the 90s start hitting infinite, there are less players to fill matches.
As somebody whose made infinite every season since modok but stopped spending on the game since pre Christmas, I've been very cynically wondering if the frequency of bots you see in your climb is related to the amount you spend on the game.... but surely that can't be right....
Haha I thought that too! I thought it was based on if you bought the season pass or not! 😂
h o l y s h i t been thinking about it too
Scrubbing through really quick… which matches were the bots? I didn’t see any. edit: Sorry. I read the title incorrectly. No bots. That’s the point.
That was their point. They didn't face any
My bad. I read the title wrong. My brain eliminated the word “not.”
Personally i think the very first opponent, Telly, played like a bot. Seemed like a really random deck for the 90s.
No, it's impossible for bots to have that avatar.
I've never seen confirmation from SD about which avatars bots can and cannot have, i thought that was all just player and fan site deductions or assumptions.
Bots won't have paid or variant avatars. Bots won't have paid or conquest variants for cards. Bots won't use that default silhouette avatar. Bots won't have cards released after Daredevil (unless generated by a location/other car) Bots won't have paid or infinite card backs. SD never confirmed this per se, but this is all true. You can choose to believe it or not, that's up to you, but if you do believe it, it'll make identifying bots much easier. If you successfully identify you can easily exploit them for 8 cubes by throwing priority until turn 5 (by allowing them to win two lanes). They snap, you snap back, and win turn 6. There are some minor variations with bot snap mechanics, but that is true for the vast majority of bot interactions. Stuff like Limbo might throw it off.
YoU nEeD tO bE HiGh MmR tO FaCe BoTs
Yea I’m very curious what is the variable that affects it. Either very high or low MMR so that no one is similar, so the game defaults to bots?
you are supposed to add the timestamp in the url. nobody is going to watch 44 minute video.
I am not a YouTube expert, I have no idea how to do that.
Right click video, copy URL at current time
That’s to make the video start at a certain time right? I wanted to make the video continuous so people didn’t think that I edited it. I don’t know how to add certain time stamps for each game starting like some streamers do though. I’m less concerned with people watching the whole thing, just wanted to show it was unedited and people can skip through as needed.
You missed the entire point of this post
I had seasons that I got 0 bots from 93->100 And two season where I had around 80% bots on my matchs from 93->100 One thing I noticed, when I was playing a LOT of bots, when I hit infinite I was around rank 10000 When I did not face bots I was around rank 30000 on Infinite Might have something to do with this, but also could just mean that I climbed way faster when facing bots so there werent that many people in infinite yet.
I've never faced bots on the way to infinite 90+, must be nice to face 80% at any point, that's crazy
It was very weird. 3 seasons ago it happened. I knew the bots from the first card they played. Always the same variants and splits. Evertytime I saw a BW Angela or America chavez turn 1 it was a instant snap. Got to infinite in 6 days and I don't even play that much
I haven't played this game in a while, but back when I did play matchmaking seemed to be determined primarily by a combination of MMR and CL and you would get bot matches when they couldn't find a good match using those parameters. That obviously means someone with very high or low MMR or CL will get more bot matches, but also means that unlikely combination of the two probably will lead to bot matches as well. For example someone with a low CL but high MMR will likely have a tough time getting real matches because most players with a low CL are new and therefore have a low MMR.
I briefly skimmed the video. You got 15 games with 9 Wins, 1 Loss, 4 Escapes, 1 Tie. (Cube rate is a different story) As stupid this may sound, you are winning too much (60% winrate), which is probably why you don't see any. If I retreat or lose a lot of times in a row, then I almost always get a bot or a poor low-ranking Pool 2 player guaranteed afterwards.
my experience tells a different story last season i climbed with almost zero bots and a 61% wr this season i have almost 50 games, zero bots, and a 43% wr i think people here are just overthinking, bot games have nothing to do with past ranking, current winrate, mmr, cl, it's only SD fucking up a system (as they do with everything else) we are at a point in marvel snap where bot games are basically free 8 cubes, so they are almost like a reward, from this point we have 2 roads to correct the problem that a system where bots gives free cubes implies: 1: bots only gives/takes 1 to 2 cubes 2: a pitty system in matching against bots, leveraging everyone bot games to player games ratio but we are to busy fighting each other to see where the real problem lies
I don't get any bots above 80 regardless of how much I win or lose.
I faced exactly 1 bot in day 1. They exist but i guess they're a lot more rare than the past seasons
I'm at 4.5k CL and ever since I got to 4k+ I haven't seen a single bot. Even last season where I was stuck at 75 rank for like a week, I didn't play a single bot. When I was 3k CL, 1/5 games were bots and in 90+ rank there were no bots at all. I think Im at the middle of the bell curve where the most amount of people are at my rank so the game doesnt match me anymore with bots or they changed the matchmaking 2 patches ago.
no, that's another thing that's well documented.
Actually last season was the first time once 2-3 seasons that I started hitting bots again at 90. Not sure what happened.
Happened to me 2 season ago. Because I didn't play much after hitting infinite. This time I played ladder and kept my rank between 10000. Let's hope I see some bots
Will be curious to hear your experience!
well, if your rank was close to 10k and you are around cl 4500 i have bad news for you hahaha
I don't really get how this proves they aren't bots. Your very first opponent made bot like plays in my opinion. I didn't watch the whole video but skimming thru it i didn't see you checking the names on known bots or anything. So if they don't emote how can you be sure it's not a bot?
Besides emoting, if they have varying times playing cards, have an infinite/spotlight border, playing meta decks, or have premium/unique avatars…I would say they are not a bot
I feel like I've seen bots play meta decks, but not like brand new ones, just ones that have been around a few weeks. I really wish SD just made the bots have official names, that players couldn't copy. They already acknowledge there ARE bots, so i don't understand why the rest of the details are so secret and left to the players to solve. Oh well. Thanks for the reply!
I think that might actually be interesting! Instead of “hiding” the bots, lean into it. Make them official and let the player know they are facing them. Give them extra energy or special effects to make it unique. I would much prefer that vs the current system.
I hadn't even considered special effects! Then they would be mini bosses, or the puzzles in some MTG video games. You could do things like RogueBot- Rogue can copy ANY ability. DeadpoolBot -deadpool costs 0. And you have to risk them making a giant deadpool. Or maybe something simple like when the bot plays the named character it gets +2.
This season I think I screwed up cause I got to 70 for the first time last season and now I’ve noticed not just bots but bots making horrible turn 6 moves that no one would ever make. I’m at 68 currently maybe if I get higher it’ll change. I’m getting like 50/50 bot human currently
huh? probably 1/4 of my opponents in the 90s were bots. ...? CL15k+
Not saying you didn’t face any bots, I’m saying that some people don’t face any bots at all.
thats is absolutely possible, i was just surprised by OP' title that some people actually don't believe that players are facing bots in the 90s
I was playing some C3 today in the 80s didn't get any bots. I switched to my ramp deck that has Domino faced 2 or 3. I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
I don’t feel like watching 45 mins to search for bots tbh but sometimes you do just play a bot and snap and you’re agreed so it retreats. Shit happens. The 3, 5, 7 rule applies and rings true to me. I play a bot every 7th game. If it’s that rare then I may not even notice sometime. Especially if I snap and make it retreat because they often leave if you’re ahead.
Not expecting anyone to watch the whole thing, just wanted to have the evidence in case someone doesn’t believe me.
For some reason my account is progression capped. I get bots or fake matches that are retreat only results after moving up every 10 ranks that are meant to extend our the playtime to get to 90. I guess if you get to 90 and stop playing as much they cap your progression to make sure you stay engaged with the game all month.
talking from my experience, this season i have faced 2 bots in about 60 macthes, starting from 73 my cousin, also starting from 73 told me that his experience is something like 7\~8 bot games every 10 matches my cl is 4500, his is 3600
Right? There’s a completely different climbing experience for different players.
and that shouldnt happen i have played at both sides of the spectrum, my first returning season was basically only bots on ladder, steamrolled all the way to inifnite rank 179, climbed to 160 (at this point i was considering myself good) next season (and all of the season from there onwards) i consider myself luck if i see a bot every 50 or so matches neither of these experiences are fine, and neither should be aimed for
100% agree!
My experience has been that you get bots within the range they drop you every season. If I ended a season at 90, I get bots until I hit 90 and then never again. If you hit infinite, I would assume you’ll get bots in the 90s, but anyone who didn’t hit infinite won’t.
I hit infinite for the first time in June 2023. I had some bots in my climbs for the next several months, making my climbs not too difficult. Until Dec2023 when they stopped completely. I thought I was doomed to the "no-bot 90's" forever, as it played out that way for several months until the last month when I actually saw them again (granted, like 1 in \~10 games, not frequent). I did change my playstyle quite a bit beginning in Feb, as I almost exclusively played conquest and stopped touching ladder after hitting 90 for the gold. I wonder if not playing ladder for a majority of the month dropped my mmr enough to start seeing them again? No idea honestly.
I've had the same issue the past two seasons. This is the third where I don't go against a single bot.
it's definitely MMR related, this season I got a bot once very 4 games on average in 90s, and ranked in top 5K infinite. Last season, 0 bots in 90s, top 20k infinite. never climbed so fast to infinite thanks to so many bots. I usually get there the last week of a season.
I think that seems to be the best theory so far
Im getting extremely frustrated with bot situation to a point I’m considering quitting the game. I have to play every month till rank 90 before actually enjoying the game a bit, it feels like 50% of the games between rank 77 and 90 are not infested and I’m not enjoying winning cubes against stupid AI. Anyone feel the same?
How can you actually tell if it's a bot?
it depends on your mmr, if I rush for infinite I'll definitely see less bots in the 90's then if I take 2 weeks to get there
I saw a bot in my half hour play time and I'm at 93 right now. It's pretty rare, but every so often I see one.
There absolutely are bots in the 90s. I don’t understand how this is even a debated thing.
I’m not saying there aren’t bots. I’m saying some players aren’t facing them.
I know. I just can’t understand why some people don’t believe that there are bots in the 90s.
Oh there definitely are, I used to face them. For the past 6 or so months (not sure the exact timeline) they have disappeared.
It is determined by some player performance data. I used to get bots in 90s, absolutely 100%, but it hasn't been the case for the last two or three months
Your experience is not the same as everyone else's
I understand that not everyone is getting bots, but the presence of bots is easily proven. I can capture some screenshots/vids next time as I’m currently sitting at 97.
Season before last I couldn't get above 35. Last season I got to 80. Not always on my laptop for the companion app but when I was I could see at least a quarter of my battles were against bots. My collection level is super low, I still don't have all series 3 cards. I think it's partially just trying its best to match make and when it can't offer me a fair to semi-fair game, it will offer a bot. I'll take it for now because I know the more cards I get, the harder my opponents should become.
I'm at 65 right now today I didn't get a bot for matches so far. Last season once I hit 80s I didn't see another bot.
I see them often in the 70s, a few in the 80s. They are definitely less often as you climb.
i swear i didnt face many at all anywhere last season. just this morning at rank 78 i had 3 bots positively THROW 8 cube games to me
Yup, they are definitely present in the 70s, less so in the 80s.
If you're not playing bots you're the lucky ones. I don't think you're singled out. It's just random. Some days I play bots some I don't.
Got to infinite and I'd say about 25% were bots (from that 77 reset)
Just got a bot this morning at 98. Now infinite but there are definitely bots throughout all of the climb. I'm sure they attempt to have less the higher rank you are but there will always be bots for the sake of quicker matchmaking and injecting cubes into the game.
A few seasons back there was a MMR glitch that I was impacted by (I know this because I received 500 gold as compensation for my MMR being impacted) and that morning I faced nearly exclusively bots from 93-100.
thats a nice glitch to be impacted by free infinite + 500 gold?
begging for bots is embarrassing
Wow you really missed the point huh?
I just down vote these posts because I think it's hilariously stupid that people are complaining about playing REAL people. But I think the reason these posts get so much pushback or push..forward is because there are a lot of people making false claims or at the very least unsubstantiated ones. Like now it's just no bots in the 90s , no bots at all, no bots until the 90s ? Just no bots for high MMR, but no wait I have no bots but I'm low MMR. No bots this season but bots last season? It just makes it sound like a bunch of people tilted and using 'no bots' as a catch all answer as to why
I mean, 14 matches isn't a large sample size at all... Not nearly enough data to make the claim you're making. EDIT: apparently it was 15 games, 9 of which OP won. OP is winning too much to get bots.
You are right about it being a small sample size. I’m not sure if I want to record a continuous 4 hour video on my phone haha.
The fact you also won 9/15 games is pretty huge too. I'd like to see the results if you lost 2-3 games in a row
Haha then I should have just recorded me trying to climb today 😂
Maybe, but it could also just be you're unlucky. I'm in contact with a lot of the top players, often ranking in top 100, and based off their anecdotes it seems like if you have higher snap points (or MMR) you will be more likely to face bots since the game can't find someone on your level. On the other side of the coin, if you're "bad" then you'll likely see bots to inject cubes into the system. Being an "average" player seems to result in the least amount of bots as the game has no problem matchmaking you with other people at your level. Time of day and location could also factor into this. If you're playing at a time where more players are active, one can presume you're more likely to face humans rather than bots, especially if you're an "average" player. And I'm not saying this is you, because you correctly identified none of these were bots, but some people are legit unable to tell bots apart from real players. In fact, in this very comment section someone thought the first person you played was a bot despite it being impossible for bots to own that avatar.
I am the epitome of their “average” player, no doubt. So that makes total sense that people in the middle of the bell curve face less bots. Maybe it’s as simple as that?
Update: I just went on a 0-5 and down 16 cubes but still seeing infinite conquest borders lol. Fun times! Update 2: 1-9, down 20+ cubes and 3 ranks. Still no bots. I’m too average of a player it seems. Update 3: 1-13, back down to the 80s! I solved the problem!! First opponent at rank 89 was a bot! 🤣🤣
Are you a member of the Marvel Snap Discord server? If so, hop in VC some time. I'm typically hanging out there. Same username, but my server username is "Exhukkari" right now to fit in with this season.
Bro I pointed this out on the 3rd day of release. I figured out they use bots (easy ones) for new players to get them to continue playing and often times if you do bad enough it will continue to use bots for a while if no one is the same MMR or whatever they use. I notice the same thing at higher levels as well if you do too well it starts hitting you with counter decks. There's all kinds of little tricks they pull. If you are the originator of a certain type of deck the system has no idea who to place you against until the AI figures it out which can take almost a whole season I've noticed. I believe they're using some sort of MMR/AI system. Where the AI determines who you fight.
Not facing bots in the 90s? Do people also not know there is an add-on for the game, that literally tells you if the opponent is a bot? I get bots all the time, if you play at certain times. You get a shitload of bot opponents. What determines if you play against a bot, is basically how many human players are on and in your level neighborhood. If it’s not many. They send armies of bots to face you.
Since you can tell who are bots, are there different kinds of bots? I'm still new and can't really tell when I see a bot or not. I used to assume they were those that made stupid plays like not retreating and then playing a card that mathematically wouldn't win the game no matter what I did. But after reading this sub, I'm not sure sure anymore since there seems to be a sizeable group that wants to play it out regardless.
They are a bit more varied, some will snap early then retreat. Some stick with the match even if you snap back. Decks are kind of varied, so like a basic destroy deck and a basic move deck and so on. The ones that play to the end of matches will make absurdly stupid plays. I’ve tried loosing a couple matches and won both cause the bot made such bad moves. For science of course
Isn’t this on PC only?
It is. iOS won't allow access to the kind of information that would support those apps and Android made a system change at the end of last year that means they also can't access that information. So yeah PC only until someone finds a work around on mobile.
That add-on for untapped has been incorrect lately. It said opponents were bots despite having series 4-5 cards (something bots can't have) and missed obvious bots. I wouldn't rely on that.
I made infinite every season since launch , Of course there’s bots everywhere on ladder.
on YOUR ladder hahahaha my experience goes as follows: 1 bot match every 30 to 40 human matches, all the way from 73 to 100 ranking 10k last season, cl 4500, playing mostly in the first 2 weeks (after that i usually hit infinite) you can reduce my cl for what we usually grow in one month for every season since january, the experience is still the same
[удалено]
farming yt view lmao. his channel got 4 videos release over 4 years. chill tf out
Actually made me laugh haha. Don’t care at all about views.