I remain optimistic - new wind tunnel, spend-cap, etc. - but logically I really do think it will take a major shake-up to get McLaren back to the top. Something like partnering (or being bought by) an engine manufacturer not already on the grid. I just feel like customer teams will always be starting on the back foot.
There were those rumors a while back that Audi was buying McLaren specifically for the racing division so they could get back into F1. McLaren actually had a press release to deny the rumors, but I think this was probably close to becoming reality. Obviously, Audi (VW) then pivoted and ultimately ended up buying the Sauber team.
I would gladly welcome a works partnership with an engine manufacturer, but McLaren should not allow themselves to be acquired. I think the Audi deal didn’t happen because Audi didn’t want to be a works partner they wanted to be the F1 team and that means the end of one of the most iconic teams in the sports history. I’m glad they didn’t sell. I’d rather they sit in the midfield as a customer team than to fight for wins but lose their identity. McLaren will make their way back to the top on their own, recency bias seems to cloud people’s judgement on that.
McLaren beat Renault 2019 and 2020 while being their customer. Red Bull beat the Renault works team from 2016 to 2018. Beating works teams isn't impossible.
Beating works teams isn’t impossible if it’s Renault*
Outside of Renault, name another works team since 2009 that beat a customer team. Also, ignoring Mercedes-McLaren vs Mercedes since McLaren were still more or less a works team until 2014. Brawn GP beating McLaren is the only other most recent one I can think of.
LH isn’t why they were successful, or why Mercedes became successful. He made an extremely good decision to switch teams and timed it to perfection, McLaren’s decline and Mercedes’ rise wasn’t overnight, and not caused by any one person, let alone an admittedly great driver who has little influence on the big picture.
You are going a little far though. Yes he wasn't the main factor in the reversal of fortunes, but he was a factor. Him bringing his (and his team's) experience and consistency of performance away from McLaren and to Mercedes definitely had an impact on both teams.
Not really, the 2013 car and 2014 engine had already been significantly developed by Mercedes and received little to no input from Lewis. Him being in the McLaren in 2014 wasn’t going to have any impact on Mercedes during that period or McLaren in 2013. He perhaps could’ve helped McLaren beat Ferrari in 2014, but he wasn’t going to really impact either team. Both teams were in no mans land with no competitors for most of those years.
Mercedes also didn’t need him to bring much knowledge over from McLaren. They had Schumacher and Brawn doing all of that for them instead. Plus, McLaren at the time was a poorly run team, compared to Brawn’s and Schumacher’s experience with Ferrari they simply didn’t need any input on the operational side of things. Regardless, that’s where Mercedes has always been weak anyway. Not as bad as Ferrari, but their mains strengths are the engineers who built cars that don’t have competitors. They also had a great driver line ups, with a great driver to win, and the perfect #2 driver, or before that, 2 top drivers.
Exactly what has Lewis done that made Mercedes competitive where they wouldn’t have been already? It’s nice to think drivers have all this influence on a team, but it’s not the 70s anymore. They simply have little to no influence outside of their own garage.
And which drivers should they get, mclaren arguably has one of the scariest looking driver lineups if Piastri works as well in F1 as he did in the feeder series which I feel he will. Mclaren major weakness in recent years compared to the top three is their lack of facilities.
For sureeee… *starts sweating profusely*
I remain optimistic - new wind tunnel, spend-cap, etc. - but logically I really do think it will take a major shake-up to get McLaren back to the top. Something like partnering (or being bought by) an engine manufacturer not already on the grid. I just feel like customer teams will always be starting on the back foot. There were those rumors a while back that Audi was buying McLaren specifically for the racing division so they could get back into F1. McLaren actually had a press release to deny the rumors, but I think this was probably close to becoming reality. Obviously, Audi (VW) then pivoted and ultimately ended up buying the Sauber team.
I would gladly welcome a works partnership with an engine manufacturer, but McLaren should not allow themselves to be acquired. I think the Audi deal didn’t happen because Audi didn’t want to be a works partner they wanted to be the F1 team and that means the end of one of the most iconic teams in the sports history. I’m glad they didn’t sell. I’d rather they sit in the midfield as a customer team than to fight for wins but lose their identity. McLaren will make their way back to the top on their own, recency bias seems to cloud people’s judgement on that.
Not as long as they are their consumer
McLaren beat Renault 2019 and 2020 while being their customer. Red Bull beat the Renault works team from 2016 to 2018. Beating works teams isn't impossible.
Beating works teams isn’t impossible if it’s Renault* Outside of Renault, name another works team since 2009 that beat a customer team. Also, ignoring Mercedes-McLaren vs Mercedes since McLaren were still more or less a works team until 2014. Brawn GP beating McLaren is the only other most recent one I can think of.
Yeah fair point
Yes, if they get a works engine deal and a good technical team
As a customer team? Doubt it. Even though I dislike Ron, he was right, the only way to win a championship really is to be a works team.
Ever? yes Next season? Probably not
I don't think so. They don't have LH anymore
LH isn’t why they were successful, or why Mercedes became successful. He made an extremely good decision to switch teams and timed it to perfection, McLaren’s decline and Mercedes’ rise wasn’t overnight, and not caused by any one person, let alone an admittedly great driver who has little influence on the big picture.
You are going a little far though. Yes he wasn't the main factor in the reversal of fortunes, but he was a factor. Him bringing his (and his team's) experience and consistency of performance away from McLaren and to Mercedes definitely had an impact on both teams.
Not really, the 2013 car and 2014 engine had already been significantly developed by Mercedes and received little to no input from Lewis. Him being in the McLaren in 2014 wasn’t going to have any impact on Mercedes during that period or McLaren in 2013. He perhaps could’ve helped McLaren beat Ferrari in 2014, but he wasn’t going to really impact either team. Both teams were in no mans land with no competitors for most of those years. Mercedes also didn’t need him to bring much knowledge over from McLaren. They had Schumacher and Brawn doing all of that for them instead. Plus, McLaren at the time was a poorly run team, compared to Brawn’s and Schumacher’s experience with Ferrari they simply didn’t need any input on the operational side of things. Regardless, that’s where Mercedes has always been weak anyway. Not as bad as Ferrari, but their mains strengths are the engineers who built cars that don’t have competitors. They also had a great driver line ups, with a great driver to win, and the perfect #2 driver, or before that, 2 top drivers. Exactly what has Lewis done that made Mercedes competitive where they wouldn’t have been already? It’s nice to think drivers have all this influence on a team, but it’s not the 70s anymore. They simply have little to no influence outside of their own garage.
No way in hell this is going to happen. They should lose both of their drivers and half of their staff to McLaren in order to make it work
And which drivers should they get, mclaren arguably has one of the scariest looking driver lineups if Piastri works as well in F1 as he did in the feeder series which I feel he will. Mclaren major weakness in recent years compared to the top three is their lack of facilities.
As a fan of McLaren, nope.