150k compensation for ME is around the top 10% of MEs depending on your state and industry. I was there before I got into management, its just not that common. I'd leave it at that and the lack of odds someone actually bothered to post on that other thread.
A lot of it has to do with inflation and such.
You hear stories a lot about how someone who’s been with the company a while makes less than the new guy. That’s why you see so much job hopping these days - why would you stay somewhere for the long haul and make 20% less than you could if you go somewhere new every couple years and stay ahead of the curve money wise?
That said, I agree it sucks that for the amazing things ME’s do we don’t get the compensation we deserve. Unless you go take a managerial role or director role within ME, or are highly specialized in a field, you won’t see the big money. Not a fan of corporate.
The big money for technical work is in consulting - but you usually need a PE to do that however. That’s the route I’m on currently.
The big metric should be operating income per employee. That is an internal metric we use and I can tell you that manufacturing is not nearly as good as tech.
It is an unfortunate way the system is setup. It seems companies have accepted that hiring costs are high and they’re willing to bring someone on who’s new for the going rate, but raises and rewards for those who have been with the company for a whole don’t keep in line with the industry rate. They just keep up a little over inflation rates, sometimes not even.
Is “big money” in mechanical consulting even that big for a P.E.? Is it only certain fields? I work for a consulting company as a mechanical MEP engineer that is primarily civil and I feel like the money just isn’t there. I’m working towards a PE as well
I worked with some PE’s as a contractor last year. I personally made $85 an hour. They made more (probably $100-120). They got contracts from local corporate entities to do consulting, the had their own hours, worked where they wanted to, got the work done, and would take 2 month vacations. That’s what the fuck is up and I want some more of that.
I also know a PE that does FEA consulting work and works part time because his takehome is so large he doesn’t need to work full time.
If you are a valuable engineer, and have a PE, sell your services.
First, you must hold an engineering degree from an ABET-accredited university, then you can sign up to take the first exam, known as the FE exam (fundamentals of engineering). If you pass this exam you will be granted an EIT (engineer in training) or EI (engineer intern) certificate. You will then have to work under the supervision of a licensed PE for at least 4 years before you can apply to take the second exam, known as the PE (principles and practice of engineering). If you pass this exam, then you can apply to become a PE for your state.
Kinda side question from reading this thread, is it generally uncommon to get your PE in your state? I'm a junior now and all the professors push it as though it's a general requirement for engineers. I'm planning on taking the FE in my senior year as it is so I can get my PE down the road.
The language about it in this thread is a little surprising to me.
I have been ME consulting for about 15 years after a few years in aerospace. Make $150 to $250 an hour generally. Never needed a PE. I figure since I don't do HVAC, there is no point. I did pass the EIT since they made me take it to graduate, but I never took the second test. I'm not sure about big money, because that depends on how much you want to work when you are your own boss...
In my state you can’t practice engineering to the public without a PE. I’m not in HVAC either.
I mean if $150-$250 an hour isn’t big money for we lonesome engineers idk what is.
My understanding is you cannot us the term Engineering or Engineer in your business name or advertising, but it does not stop you from working. I have never had to advertise an engineering service, but I do engineering every day. Anyone can design something to be manufactured. Look at the maker economy. I know some companies will not hire an engineer with a PE because of the liability associated with it. A "use at your own risk" statement or "warning" sticker covers you where a PE adds additional responsibilities. I realize that the hourly rate sounds high, but you have to buy your own software, liability insurance, office space, health care etc etc. You are lucky to bill 5 hrs a day with all the quoting, emails, calls, chasing clients, billing etc. I love the freedom of working on my own, and I go from one unique project to the next which is fulfilling. I also miss having co-workers and the security of someone else making the day to day business decisions. Its a trade off. I do think mechanical engineering is undervalued, so I am onboard with the sentiment of this thread.
You don't need to take a test, you just need to find an open job and convince the hiring manager that you are qualified.
Civil engineering and related fields are the only places I've seen where tests like the PE matter
It is just the market. Very few mechanical engineers are going to quit and form their own consultancy, charge market rates for work and then keep that higher income for themselves.
Also with 20+ years of experience many change job titles. They will be in management, or as an executive. Or a principal, or fellow.
There are some employers that pay a lot more than $130k though. Boeing tops out at ~$230k. Apple is $270k for ICT4(but software, electrical engineer pays more).
I know someone set to retire from Boeing in the next few years. He's a SME, with ~30 year career. His son with 2 yoe as a software engineer makes the same as him - $170k. I might have just never met these people, but I don't think a max Boeing compensation of $230k is going to be common, even for very senior engineers.
I think role change is probably a driving factor. It wasn't that long ago that loads of C-Suite folks started with MEs and got a good MBA or similar after, in fact when I graduated that was the recommendation if you didn't want to stay technical or wanted to make loads of money.
So straight MEs don't make as much but then a lot of MEs don't stay as a ME and move up to being a manager. Most of my jobs also had CEs or EEs work under managers who were previously MEs since there were usually only 1 of them to every 2-3 MEs. You couldn't justify an EE manager so they got lumped in under the ME manager.
I think the value of experience climbs quickly for the first ten years or so, then tapers off. A 20 year technical ME knows more than a 10 year ME, but they're not twice as productive. The way to capture the value of their experience is usually for them to manage other engineers, spreading their experience around without having to do the day to day stuff. They can help 5-10 other engineers work better. So the managers tend to earn more than late career sole contributors.
Definitely so in my case. First twenty years large bumps from job hopping and also rapid promotions led to a massive increase in pay. Staying at one company thereafter my pay increased by 3% pa compounded. GFC really smashed the progression.
I just didn't post. 🤷
Someone else commented here - often there's also a job title change that prevents people from being counted as mechanical engineers anymore. Although they're also frequently not individual contributors anymore at that point.
I don't understand why people think how hard or technical your work is has anything to do with income. It's all market, supply vs demand. There's more mechanical grads than any other subsection of engineering. The only reason they get paid more than civvies is because there are far fewer civil jobs, so even with less grads the civ companies don't have to offer as much to get somebody. Compare that to chemical engineers which has very very few grads (relatively speaking), or electrical which has a ton of jobs available for fewer graduates than mechanical. That means they can demand more because the market is in their favor. And the reason for the pay ceiling is simple- no company would ever pay you more money than you bring in. That's a simple principle of how companies work. The way to break through that pay ceiling is to move into management, so now your market changes. Most engineers have a decent amount of technical skill, but few among those skillled want to manage people or take on liability for other people's work. You aren't owed anything because you sat at the same desk solving the same problems for twenty years (wether or not you should be owed more is a bigger discussion of economics and unions and such, but I'm just addressing the market as-is, not how it could or should work)
Supply and demand of labor is almost all that matters.
We had 300 applications for an open Sr. Mechanical a year or two back. We interviewed 5 people and got down to two we really liked. After being up front that the band was $130 to 150k, we had one ask for $200k firmly. The other one got the job and we brought him in around 140ish. This is in Chicago which I would consider MCOL.
The amount of applicants we have actively suppresses how much HR will budget.
For a comparable software person, we are probably talking over $200k which is why we avoid products that require software as much as possible. Hell, we had a software position opened up during the pandemic and we got zero applicants for the first 3 weeks. Wound up using a recruiter.
This is why I chose controls. The market matters more than anything else, and controls is fairly desperate for people. What results is better pay, but more importantly when my last company went under, I landed an interview within fifteen minutes of changing my LinkedIn status, as my new company also had to go the recruiter route. If you can develop a skill set that's hard to find and frequently needed, you're golden (to any mech or electrical fresh grads out there, look into PLC work. We need ya)
I half jokingly say that the best thing for mechanical engineers is to get people to stop pursuing the degree which decrease competition among job hunters.
What specifically do you mean when you say PLC work? I work in facilities, so I'm familiar with what PLC's are used for (HVAC controls, etc...)
But what would a mechanical engineer actually do in regards to the PLCs?
My brother in technology, I'm an ME and my first job out of college was programming and designing the control panel circutry that runs our OEM manufacturing equipment. PLC's are the perfect middle ground between electrical and mechanical, and a good controls team benefits from having people from both backgrounds. HVAC is a huge sector for controls guys, though I admit I stayed away from that because I have no interest in pursuing a PE and also I personally found HVAC kinda boring when I could be building robots that move a lot and do cool things. What would a mechanical engineer actually do in regards to PLC's? Everything! Albeit doing high level networking and plant level communications leans more into the CE/CS side of things than actually designing the machines like I do, but of course I have to work with those guys and program to their specs all the time, and could move in that direction if I want to
PLCfiddle dot com and YouTube for programming, building cheap Arduino robots for all around understanding, cheap PLC/sensors/inputs on automation direcct dot com.
Ok — in this market will they actually appreciate that if you don’t got experience? I ask because it is competitive as you said and SWEs have described experiencing those struggles as of late. Appreciate your help
I said it wasn't competitive lol- the industry is desperate for controls engineers, especially if you're willing to travel. You'll probably have to take a pay cut and start as an entry level job, but the fact you already have an ME means you're at least qualified for those
You are describing my dream job!! I’m currently in my 3rd year mechanical engineering and I want to go into robotics, PLC and such. I joined a robotics club at my school and already learned a lot about microcontrollers programming and will be doing PCB next semester. In my last year I will start doing PCL and robot kinematics.
My question is what is the pay like for you and all your colleagues who work in your field. And how is it easy to switch roles and do a more SWE or EE jobs. Is it a skill in demand?
The skill is highly in demand, an EE degree is better than mechanical but you can make it work. My path was to start at small mom n pop companies and work my way up
Yes. I would say that about 50% didn't meet the bare minimum (10-15 YoE), and of the remaining 50%, about half were from overseas and we don't do H1Bs. That leaves about 75 serious applications who's resume's we looked at. We phone screened about 15-20 with relevant experience and downselected to 5 for full interviews.
The whole process took about 4 months.
It’s crazy the amount of foreign applicants we get on all of our postings. I think they just play the probability game and apply to everything. It’s really a pain for HR to sort out.
Interesting. A few years back I put out an ad for a journeyman Mech. We got maybe 20 applications of which exactly zero were even remotely qualified. We simply accepted that we would have to hire at the entry level and grow ‘em internally.
Also you're completely disregarding inflation. That 20 yr veteran making 130k probably started at 30k, which adjusted for inflation is closer to the 80k grad than you think. That 80k grad will probably be making closer to 200k in twenty years, which will probably be closer in value to the other guy's current 130k. Undeniably inflation is screwing everybody across the board in every industry but again, bigger discussion than just the engineering market.
It's also industry dependent. I have 8 YOE, graduated with an IE degree (close to ME) in 2017, masters in 2018. I am at 131k/yr & at a below average comp for my position/title.
This is LCOL in the defense industry.
You could consider swapping to a different industry and/or become proficient at both ME & EE work (something like controls).
I think a lot of it is just due to the fact that a lot of people don't understand how valuable truly technical people are, at least in a company setting. And when do some do, it is kinda glossed over and people have a small attention span. I remember once I was on an MRB and there was a part that was reworked at least 3 times (probably 3 times at our most expensive OP) and I being the new guy went did a better look at it, the machinist had generated his own program to try and hit tolerance because not matter how hard he tried, the standard program didn't work. But doing his program, he could make it work probably every 3 or 4 tries. I looked at the tool he used, the tool had a wider tolerance than the feature he was trying to make so the tool was constantly being either over or undersized for the feature he was trying to make and the engineer on the review board always would just sent it back to get reworked. I took 5 our of stock, measured on our CMM, found one that was in tolerance for the feature tolerance and lo and behold the standard program all of a sudden worked. Revised the tooling to use a tool with a tighter tolerance to match the feature size. It had been a problem for 12 years looking at the rework tickets/NPRs, probably made 6 to a dozen of them a year. I probably saved them 2-3x my salary for the next 5 years, after spending 2 days of work on it. Got a 2.1% raise that year.
People with 20+ years of deep technical mechanical engineering experience are making FAR more than $150k. At least in the Oil / Gas / Chemical / Petrochemical industry. I'd say even the below average engineer with 20 years of experience in the energy industry should be pulling more than $150k total compensation.
I'm 4.5 years into my career at a refinery with total compensation last year of $135k, (base salary + bonus). My colleague who is 6 years into his career, also mechanical engineering, got his title changed to senior at his 5 year anniversary and his total compensation for 2023 was $160k with base salary and bonus (most of that coming from a large increase in bonus target). I'm a Project Engineer, and he is a Inspection Engineer (fixed equipment reliability), my job is technically further in the career path than his is, my company is just very timeline based for promotions.
So the people with deep expertise I would consider non-managerial, but have a defined role in a company, often at corporate. These are our subject matter experts (SME), and my company treats them similar to site directors. Translating over director salary, our corporate SME's that are Mechanical are likely making over $200k base depending on years of service, with bonus targets that push them over $250k with extra benefits. It's a huge company with well over 4,000 engineers and there's maybe a dozen M.E. SME's total. These are the people with deep technical knowledge about the industry, who have worked for different companies and bring a level of expertise to the company that a typical engineer wouldn't bring.
Our local managers and directors that are mechanical are easily making over 150k base and similar experience to what you're describing. Their bonus targets can be north of 25% with additional stock options, and the company often pays 1.5-1.9x bonus target.
So, all this being said about the Energy industry, I get your point. Mechanical Engineering in general is a very mature job type, and many of the industries are also mature. Lots of different manufacturing is mature, refining is mature, etc. Where you'll start seeing very high early career salaries is jobs that in early phases or growth phases that are trying to attract talented young engineers.
Very mature industries just have a "hey this what the rest of the market pays engineers and this is what we pay engineers", and you can sometimes see that the salary difference between a new hire and a 20 year veteran isn't that great. If you're in a job like this, get out, find something different with better growth opportunities and career advancement options.
I think it's just weird to have a cap at all. I understand there's likely a soft / hard cap for payroll, but that should definitely move with time. In 2024, a hard cap at 140k is low for 20+ years of expertise. Especially if that's with bonus.
Is there high turnover? I couldn't see myself staying with a company knowing that there's a hard limit that low in salary that I would never be able to eclipse.
I’m at 14 yrs experience, 153k base, straight pay OT on top. 1 job hop.
SME in the O&G industry, working at an EPC
However, without transferring to a refinery, there’s not much room for growth before becoming management.
I would kill for OT, or at least some time of turnaround agreement. TARs can have me working 250-300 OT hours and getting paid zilch for it. And then the company graciously gives me 2-3 flex days to take after the TAR is over.
But yeah, really there's just not a huge market for 20+ year engineers and not being in management. For us at the refinery, we don't really have any. We fill that gap with 3rd party engineering firms. An outside firm will do our PE stamps, our process design, our FEA analysis, etc. Most of our "deeply technical" engineering is all outsourced.
Well It’s industry dependent to start and also most of the problems have been figured out. Think about the overhead cost of a software project vs the amount of labor hours saved in automation or amount of user data collected. Even at high paid tech companies the mechanical widget is just an interface to the new AI tool.
So you’re right IMO there is no point in the ME grind.
I’m not sure, but a ton of senior MEs in the Bay Area make well over $150k. It’s one reason I didn’t move back to the Midwest; there was one place that was expecting me to take a 50% pay cut and increase my responsibilities and hours quite a bit. No thanks!
I think it may also be similar to how women are underpaid because they aren't assertive. Engineers in general aren't. The last round of negotiations I went through was so upsetting that I was knocked out for 2-3 weeks with a strange illness.
Most of the jobs in that thread have awful work-life balance (medical, law, ATC, oil and gas), are labor intensive (HVAC, lineman, trades), management roles, or software/cybersecurity.
There's nothing precluding an engineer to being a manager. Software and cubersecurity are their own beasts.
I'd rather be an engineer and work a normal job than any of the labor intensive jobs or the ones that are awful on your personal life and free time.
Also, even just $100k is a lot of money, let's not act like engineers are paupers. That single salary is more than the median household income in the US. You can live a very comfortable life on one salary outside of extreme HCOL areas.
A lot depends on industry and location. Also some sun-specialties can be very valuable. Add in program manager skills with a good technical foundation and you can top $300k if you find the right place with the right skills.
I think it's three reasons-
- The good engineers go to management, consulting, etc
- The bad engineers can't advance
- The nerds who'd rather play SolidWorks all day don't care as much about money as they do about doing engineer stuff and just chill with a comfortable salary forever without making step changes
In my company we do have senior engineers doing technical work getting paid over $150k, but usually what happens is that as you progress in your career you begin to naturally take on more responsibility since you're the guy who knows how to do things and you end up in some sort of leadership role. Rather than doing technical work yourself instead you'll be reviewing other people's work or leading large teams of engineers to do work.
Mechanical Engineers who have more than 15 years of experience are very unlikely to still have a job title that includes them in these statistics. ME's get paid more, they just are not considered "Mechanical Engineers" anymore.
Hang on. Mechanical engineers are logical and don't waste much time on general socials. All the subs I'm on here are either technical or engineering. I never look at the front page.
I feel like this is industry dependent. Been in the work force along USGC in manufacturing, doing pipe stress is fairly lucrative (128k base) for a 6Y career so far.
It's not that people with MechE degrees aren't making 150k, they just don't have "Mechanical Engineer" job title by the time they do. I still have a technical title and am above 150k, but most of my peers at this point are in director-level leadership positions of one kind or another.
My first job out of my PhD will pay me 141k (or up to 162k depending on if I work over 40 hrs/wk). My official title does not have "Mechanical" in it anywhere even though my group discipline will be mechanical/thermal.
If it makes you feel any better I am an 11 year engineer (university of Nebraska grad fyi) and I expect to make around 170k this year. Around 105k base and 65k bonus. I also have a very good esop on top of that. I work in consulting in O&G. Specifically wastewater equipment. Its not easy work a dnf sucks at times, but you can still make an Excellent salary with the right company and industry.
I think it’s all supply and demand. Unfortunately, you almost have to job hop to get good pay bumps as an engineer. I’ve come to realize that I shouldn’t do engineering for the money and I’m happy with my choice due to the difference I make in society. Although the cap is a bit over 220k at my company for an engineer, most senior engineers cap at around 165k and good luck going from entry level (85k) to 165k by staying in the same group
Dog mechanical engineers have routinely been fucked by capital. Honestly if you want to make money as an ME, do robotics, start programming, or work freelance. Y’all have it rough af
I pull in over $300K annually between salary and bonus with a BS in ME and a MS in materials science. ~25 years in aerospace. I was a manager for fifteen years but am now an individual contributor and loving it. It’s like a paid vacation not having staff, lol.
150k compensation for ME is around the top 10% of MEs depending on your state and industry. I was there before I got into management, its just not that common. I'd leave it at that and the lack of odds someone actually bothered to post on that other thread.
A lot of it has to do with inflation and such. You hear stories a lot about how someone who’s been with the company a while makes less than the new guy. That’s why you see so much job hopping these days - why would you stay somewhere for the long haul and make 20% less than you could if you go somewhere new every couple years and stay ahead of the curve money wise? That said, I agree it sucks that for the amazing things ME’s do we don’t get the compensation we deserve. Unless you go take a managerial role or director role within ME, or are highly specialized in a field, you won’t see the big money. Not a fan of corporate. The big money for technical work is in consulting - but you usually need a PE to do that however. That’s the route I’m on currently.
Its also simply because software companies make far more money per contributor than physical businesses. So they can afford to pay everyone more.
The big metric should be operating income per employee. That is an internal metric we use and I can tell you that manufacturing is not nearly as good as tech.
Supply and Demand. Simple.
It is an unfortunate way the system is setup. It seems companies have accepted that hiring costs are high and they’re willing to bring someone on who’s new for the going rate, but raises and rewards for those who have been with the company for a whole don’t keep in line with the industry rate. They just keep up a little over inflation rates, sometimes not even.
Is “big money” in mechanical consulting even that big for a P.E.? Is it only certain fields? I work for a consulting company as a mechanical MEP engineer that is primarily civil and I feel like the money just isn’t there. I’m working towards a PE as well
I worked with some PE’s as a contractor last year. I personally made $85 an hour. They made more (probably $100-120). They got contracts from local corporate entities to do consulting, the had their own hours, worked where they wanted to, got the work done, and would take 2 month vacations. That’s what the fuck is up and I want some more of that. I also know a PE that does FEA consulting work and works part time because his takehome is so large he doesn’t need to work full time. If you are a valuable engineer, and have a PE, sell your services.
what's a PE?
PE = Professional Engineer
how do u become one
First, you must hold an engineering degree from an ABET-accredited university, then you can sign up to take the first exam, known as the FE exam (fundamentals of engineering). If you pass this exam you will be granted an EIT (engineer in training) or EI (engineer intern) certificate. You will then have to work under the supervision of a licensed PE for at least 4 years before you can apply to take the second exam, known as the PE (principles and practice of engineering). If you pass this exam, then you can apply to become a PE for your state.
Kinda side question from reading this thread, is it generally uncommon to get your PE in your state? I'm a junior now and all the professors push it as though it's a general requirement for engineers. I'm planning on taking the FE in my senior year as it is so I can get my PE down the road. The language about it in this thread is a little surprising to me.
I have been ME consulting for about 15 years after a few years in aerospace. Make $150 to $250 an hour generally. Never needed a PE. I figure since I don't do HVAC, there is no point. I did pass the EIT since they made me take it to graduate, but I never took the second test. I'm not sure about big money, because that depends on how much you want to work when you are your own boss...
In my state you can’t practice engineering to the public without a PE. I’m not in HVAC either. I mean if $150-$250 an hour isn’t big money for we lonesome engineers idk what is.
My understanding is you cannot us the term Engineering or Engineer in your business name or advertising, but it does not stop you from working. I have never had to advertise an engineering service, but I do engineering every day. Anyone can design something to be manufactured. Look at the maker economy. I know some companies will not hire an engineer with a PE because of the liability associated with it. A "use at your own risk" statement or "warning" sticker covers you where a PE adds additional responsibilities. I realize that the hourly rate sounds high, but you have to buy your own software, liability insurance, office space, health care etc etc. You are lucky to bill 5 hrs a day with all the quoting, emails, calls, chasing clients, billing etc. I love the freedom of working on my own, and I go from one unique project to the next which is fulfilling. I also miss having co-workers and the security of someone else making the day to day business decisions. Its a trade off. I do think mechanical engineering is undervalued, so I am onboard with the sentiment of this thread.
what tests do you need to get into consulting?
You don't need to take a test, you just need to find an open job and convince the hiring manager that you are qualified. Civil engineering and related fields are the only places I've seen where tests like the PE matter
It is just the market. Very few mechanical engineers are going to quit and form their own consultancy, charge market rates for work and then keep that higher income for themselves. Also with 20+ years of experience many change job titles. They will be in management, or as an executive. Or a principal, or fellow. There are some employers that pay a lot more than $130k though. Boeing tops out at ~$230k. Apple is $270k for ICT4(but software, electrical engineer pays more).
I know someone set to retire from Boeing in the next few years. He's a SME, with ~30 year career. His son with 2 yoe as a software engineer makes the same as him - $170k. I might have just never met these people, but I don't think a max Boeing compensation of $230k is going to be common, even for very senior engineers.
I think role change is probably a driving factor. It wasn't that long ago that loads of C-Suite folks started with MEs and got a good MBA or similar after, in fact when I graduated that was the recommendation if you didn't want to stay technical or wanted to make loads of money. So straight MEs don't make as much but then a lot of MEs don't stay as a ME and move up to being a manager. Most of my jobs also had CEs or EEs work under managers who were previously MEs since there were usually only 1 of them to every 2-3 MEs. You couldn't justify an EE manager so they got lumped in under the ME manager.
I think the value of experience climbs quickly for the first ten years or so, then tapers off. A 20 year technical ME knows more than a 10 year ME, but they're not twice as productive. The way to capture the value of their experience is usually for them to manage other engineers, spreading their experience around without having to do the day to day stuff. They can help 5-10 other engineers work better. So the managers tend to earn more than late career sole contributors.
Definitely so in my case. First twenty years large bumps from job hopping and also rapid promotions led to a massive increase in pay. Staying at one company thereafter my pay increased by 3% pa compounded. GFC really smashed the progression.
I just didn't post. 🤷 Someone else commented here - often there's also a job title change that prevents people from being counted as mechanical engineers anymore. Although they're also frequently not individual contributors anymore at that point.
I don't understand why people think how hard or technical your work is has anything to do with income. It's all market, supply vs demand. There's more mechanical grads than any other subsection of engineering. The only reason they get paid more than civvies is because there are far fewer civil jobs, so even with less grads the civ companies don't have to offer as much to get somebody. Compare that to chemical engineers which has very very few grads (relatively speaking), or electrical which has a ton of jobs available for fewer graduates than mechanical. That means they can demand more because the market is in their favor. And the reason for the pay ceiling is simple- no company would ever pay you more money than you bring in. That's a simple principle of how companies work. The way to break through that pay ceiling is to move into management, so now your market changes. Most engineers have a decent amount of technical skill, but few among those skillled want to manage people or take on liability for other people's work. You aren't owed anything because you sat at the same desk solving the same problems for twenty years (wether or not you should be owed more is a bigger discussion of economics and unions and such, but I'm just addressing the market as-is, not how it could or should work)
Supply and demand of labor is almost all that matters. We had 300 applications for an open Sr. Mechanical a year or two back. We interviewed 5 people and got down to two we really liked. After being up front that the band was $130 to 150k, we had one ask for $200k firmly. The other one got the job and we brought him in around 140ish. This is in Chicago which I would consider MCOL. The amount of applicants we have actively suppresses how much HR will budget. For a comparable software person, we are probably talking over $200k which is why we avoid products that require software as much as possible. Hell, we had a software position opened up during the pandemic and we got zero applicants for the first 3 weeks. Wound up using a recruiter.
This is why I chose controls. The market matters more than anything else, and controls is fairly desperate for people. What results is better pay, but more importantly when my last company went under, I landed an interview within fifteen minutes of changing my LinkedIn status, as my new company also had to go the recruiter route. If you can develop a skill set that's hard to find and frequently needed, you're golden (to any mech or electrical fresh grads out there, look into PLC work. We need ya)
I half jokingly say that the best thing for mechanical engineers is to get people to stop pursuing the degree which decrease competition among job hunters.
What specifically do you mean when you say PLC work? I work in facilities, so I'm familiar with what PLC's are used for (HVAC controls, etc...) But what would a mechanical engineer actually do in regards to the PLCs?
My brother in technology, I'm an ME and my first job out of college was programming and designing the control panel circutry that runs our OEM manufacturing equipment. PLC's are the perfect middle ground between electrical and mechanical, and a good controls team benefits from having people from both backgrounds. HVAC is a huge sector for controls guys, though I admit I stayed away from that because I have no interest in pursuing a PE and also I personally found HVAC kinda boring when I could be building robots that move a lot and do cool things. What would a mechanical engineer actually do in regards to PLC's? Everything! Albeit doing high level networking and plant level communications leans more into the CE/CS side of things than actually designing the machines like I do, but of course I have to work with those guys and program to their specs all the time, and could move in that direction if I want to
Best way to get in if you need to teach yourself? Got MechE with 2YOE in med dev mfg
PLCfiddle dot com and YouTube for programming, building cheap Arduino robots for all around understanding, cheap PLC/sensors/inputs on automation direcct dot com.
Ok — in this market will they actually appreciate that if you don’t got experience? I ask because it is competitive as you said and SWEs have described experiencing those struggles as of late. Appreciate your help
I said it wasn't competitive lol- the industry is desperate for controls engineers, especially if you're willing to travel. You'll probably have to take a pay cut and start as an entry level job, but the fact you already have an ME means you're at least qualified for those
You are describing my dream job!! I’m currently in my 3rd year mechanical engineering and I want to go into robotics, PLC and such. I joined a robotics club at my school and already learned a lot about microcontrollers programming and will be doing PCB next semester. In my last year I will start doing PCL and robot kinematics. My question is what is the pay like for you and all your colleagues who work in your field. And how is it easy to switch roles and do a more SWE or EE jobs. Is it a skill in demand?
The skill is highly in demand, an EE degree is better than mechanical but you can make it work. My path was to start at small mom n pop companies and work my way up
I suggest you switch to an EE degree before it's too late if you really love working on PCBs, micro controllers and PLCs and plus more pay
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Yes. I would say that about 50% didn't meet the bare minimum (10-15 YoE), and of the remaining 50%, about half were from overseas and we don't do H1Bs. That leaves about 75 serious applications who's resume's we looked at. We phone screened about 15-20 with relevant experience and downselected to 5 for full interviews. The whole process took about 4 months.
It’s crazy the amount of foreign applicants we get on all of our postings. I think they just play the probability game and apply to everything. It’s really a pain for HR to sort out.
Interesting. A few years back I put out an ad for a journeyman Mech. We got maybe 20 applications of which exactly zero were even remotely qualified. We simply accepted that we would have to hire at the entry level and grow ‘em internally.
“Senior” has practically lost all meaning at some companies. They’ll give people a senior title after just 2/3 years out of school
Also you're completely disregarding inflation. That 20 yr veteran making 130k probably started at 30k, which adjusted for inflation is closer to the 80k grad than you think. That 80k grad will probably be making closer to 200k in twenty years, which will probably be closer in value to the other guy's current 130k. Undeniably inflation is screwing everybody across the board in every industry but again, bigger discussion than just the engineering market.
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My biggest take away from this is Holy shit 2000 was over 20 years ago, the fuck happened
It's also industry dependent. I have 8 YOE, graduated with an IE degree (close to ME) in 2017, masters in 2018. I am at 131k/yr & at a below average comp for my position/title. This is LCOL in the defense industry. You could consider swapping to a different industry and/or become proficient at both ME & EE work (something like controls).
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Yeah, I am in a technical role. Mt current title is Sr Principal Quality Engineer (level 4 engineer)
I think a lot of it is just due to the fact that a lot of people don't understand how valuable truly technical people are, at least in a company setting. And when do some do, it is kinda glossed over and people have a small attention span. I remember once I was on an MRB and there was a part that was reworked at least 3 times (probably 3 times at our most expensive OP) and I being the new guy went did a better look at it, the machinist had generated his own program to try and hit tolerance because not matter how hard he tried, the standard program didn't work. But doing his program, he could make it work probably every 3 or 4 tries. I looked at the tool he used, the tool had a wider tolerance than the feature he was trying to make so the tool was constantly being either over or undersized for the feature he was trying to make and the engineer on the review board always would just sent it back to get reworked. I took 5 our of stock, measured on our CMM, found one that was in tolerance for the feature tolerance and lo and behold the standard program all of a sudden worked. Revised the tooling to use a tool with a tighter tolerance to match the feature size. It had been a problem for 12 years looking at the rework tickets/NPRs, probably made 6 to a dozen of them a year. I probably saved them 2-3x my salary for the next 5 years, after spending 2 days of work on it. Got a 2.1% raise that year.
This hurts
People with 20+ years of deep technical mechanical engineering experience are making FAR more than $150k. At least in the Oil / Gas / Chemical / Petrochemical industry. I'd say even the below average engineer with 20 years of experience in the energy industry should be pulling more than $150k total compensation. I'm 4.5 years into my career at a refinery with total compensation last year of $135k, (base salary + bonus). My colleague who is 6 years into his career, also mechanical engineering, got his title changed to senior at his 5 year anniversary and his total compensation for 2023 was $160k with base salary and bonus (most of that coming from a large increase in bonus target). I'm a Project Engineer, and he is a Inspection Engineer (fixed equipment reliability), my job is technically further in the career path than his is, my company is just very timeline based for promotions. So the people with deep expertise I would consider non-managerial, but have a defined role in a company, often at corporate. These are our subject matter experts (SME), and my company treats them similar to site directors. Translating over director salary, our corporate SME's that are Mechanical are likely making over $200k base depending on years of service, with bonus targets that push them over $250k with extra benefits. It's a huge company with well over 4,000 engineers and there's maybe a dozen M.E. SME's total. These are the people with deep technical knowledge about the industry, who have worked for different companies and bring a level of expertise to the company that a typical engineer wouldn't bring. Our local managers and directors that are mechanical are easily making over 150k base and similar experience to what you're describing. Their bonus targets can be north of 25% with additional stock options, and the company often pays 1.5-1.9x bonus target. So, all this being said about the Energy industry, I get your point. Mechanical Engineering in general is a very mature job type, and many of the industries are also mature. Lots of different manufacturing is mature, refining is mature, etc. Where you'll start seeing very high early career salaries is jobs that in early phases or growth phases that are trying to attract talented young engineers. Very mature industries just have a "hey this what the rest of the market pays engineers and this is what we pay engineers", and you can sometimes see that the salary difference between a new hire and a 20 year veteran isn't that great. If you're in a job like this, get out, find something different with better growth opportunities and career advancement options.
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I think it's just weird to have a cap at all. I understand there's likely a soft / hard cap for payroll, but that should definitely move with time. In 2024, a hard cap at 140k is low for 20+ years of expertise. Especially if that's with bonus. Is there high turnover? I couldn't see myself staying with a company knowing that there's a hard limit that low in salary that I would never be able to eclipse.
I’m at 14 yrs experience, 153k base, straight pay OT on top. 1 job hop. SME in the O&G industry, working at an EPC However, without transferring to a refinery, there’s not much room for growth before becoming management.
I would kill for OT, or at least some time of turnaround agreement. TARs can have me working 250-300 OT hours and getting paid zilch for it. And then the company graciously gives me 2-3 flex days to take after the TAR is over. But yeah, really there's just not a huge market for 20+ year engineers and not being in management. For us at the refinery, we don't really have any. We fill that gap with 3rd party engineering firms. An outside firm will do our PE stamps, our process design, our FEA analysis, etc. Most of our "deeply technical" engineering is all outsourced.
Where’s the location?
Well It’s industry dependent to start and also most of the problems have been figured out. Think about the overhead cost of a software project vs the amount of labor hours saved in automation or amount of user data collected. Even at high paid tech companies the mechanical widget is just an interface to the new AI tool. So you’re right IMO there is no point in the ME grind.
I suppose the main two reasons are firms not offering more and employees doing the work for low pay..
I’m not sure, but a ton of senior MEs in the Bay Area make well over $150k. It’s one reason I didn’t move back to the Midwest; there was one place that was expecting me to take a 50% pay cut and increase my responsibilities and hours quite a bit. No thanks!
I think it may also be similar to how women are underpaid because they aren't assertive. Engineers in general aren't. The last round of negotiations I went through was so upsetting that I was knocked out for 2-3 weeks with a strange illness.
Globalization
Most of the jobs in that thread have awful work-life balance (medical, law, ATC, oil and gas), are labor intensive (HVAC, lineman, trades), management roles, or software/cybersecurity. There's nothing precluding an engineer to being a manager. Software and cubersecurity are their own beasts. I'd rather be an engineer and work a normal job than any of the labor intensive jobs or the ones that are awful on your personal life and free time. Also, even just $100k is a lot of money, let's not act like engineers are paupers. That single salary is more than the median household income in the US. You can live a very comfortable life on one salary outside of extreme HCOL areas.
Bc managers are more important than engineers 🤡
A lot depends on industry and location. Also some sun-specialties can be very valuable. Add in program manager skills with a good technical foundation and you can top $300k if you find the right place with the right skills.
Get a consulting gig. As an ME (no masters or PE) I don’t make $150k but it’s north of $100k by a bit. Lots of my colleagues make $150k or more.
Amen. Preach.
I think it's three reasons- - The good engineers go to management, consulting, etc - The bad engineers can't advance - The nerds who'd rather play SolidWorks all day don't care as much about money as they do about doing engineer stuff and just chill with a comfortable salary forever without making step changes
Because ME's need to unionize.
In my company we do have senior engineers doing technical work getting paid over $150k, but usually what happens is that as you progress in your career you begin to naturally take on more responsibility since you're the guy who knows how to do things and you end up in some sort of leadership role. Rather than doing technical work yourself instead you'll be reviewing other people's work or leading large teams of engineers to do work.
Mechanical Engineers who have more than 15 years of experience are very unlikely to still have a job title that includes them in these statistics. ME's get paid more, they just are not considered "Mechanical Engineers" anymore.
Hang on. Mechanical engineers are logical and don't waste much time on general socials. All the subs I'm on here are either technical or engineering. I never look at the front page.
I feel like this is industry dependent. Been in the work force along USGC in manufacturing, doing pipe stress is fairly lucrative (128k base) for a 6Y career so far.
Mechanical engineering is one of the most common disciplines, second to probably only civil.
It's not that people with MechE degrees aren't making 150k, they just don't have "Mechanical Engineer" job title by the time they do. I still have a technical title and am above 150k, but most of my peers at this point are in director-level leadership positions of one kind or another.
My first job out of my PhD will pay me 141k (or up to 162k depending on if I work over 40 hrs/wk). My official title does not have "Mechanical" in it anywhere even though my group discipline will be mechanical/thermal.
If it makes you feel any better I am an 11 year engineer (university of Nebraska grad fyi) and I expect to make around 170k this year. Around 105k base and 65k bonus. I also have a very good esop on top of that. I work in consulting in O&G. Specifically wastewater equipment. Its not easy work a dnf sucks at times, but you can still make an Excellent salary with the right company and industry.
I think it’s all supply and demand. Unfortunately, you almost have to job hop to get good pay bumps as an engineer. I’ve come to realize that I shouldn’t do engineering for the money and I’m happy with my choice due to the difference I make in society. Although the cap is a bit over 220k at my company for an engineer, most senior engineers cap at around 165k and good luck going from entry level (85k) to 165k by staying in the same group
Because most go into management to go past that ceiling
The reason is simple. Everyone knows mechanical engineers are the smartest.
Dog mechanical engineers have routinely been fucked by capital. Honestly if you want to make money as an ME, do robotics, start programming, or work freelance. Y’all have it rough af
I pull in over $300K annually between salary and bonus with a BS in ME and a MS in materials science. ~25 years in aerospace. I was a manager for fifteen years but am now an individual contributor and loving it. It’s like a paid vacation not having staff, lol.