I wonder how far they'd take this ruling. Are the nurses in both locker rooms also worried about gay and lesbian colleagues staring at their bodies? And who's going to ask that question? Maybe it's time for curtained stalls like a public pool, so nobody has to worry about it.
That doesn't address being stared at by someone who may having matching parts, but prefer those over opposites. I know that's my what the post is about, but it opens that can of worms.
Don't pretend you don't understand the power dynamic, of females being forced to undress in front of a MAN in what is surpost to be a women's only private space.
We’re talking about men with serious mental problems so large that they are convinced they were born in the wrong body and instead of just being their own person they have to take chemicals and go in a restroom that the rest of the world is decently uncomfortable with just to feel “whole”. Mental illness and you’re just as sick or just a troll for buying into that goodluck
Who is more likely to be turned on by the female anatomy? Trans men or lesbians? I understand the dynamic. I don't know how you draw a line with the trauma that was apparently caused by the ogling.
I'm into women and I've never stared at another woman in a locker room or a female only space. Do not tarnish lesbians with the same brush as these creeps who want to play make believe to get their rocks off.
It's a mostly invented scenario though. I don't understand why people seem to be so eager to make hundreds of thousands of trans women's lives pure hell to put a rather weak speedbump in way of the plans of a tiny number of perverts. It's almost as though the cruelty is the point, as with so many right wing policies.
How is that your argument? Of course it’s uncomfortable having a gay colleague checking you out. I just had this issue with a colleague and got HR involved. You shouldn’t tolerate any sort of sexual harassment
It's not an argument and i agree with you. I'm trying to point out that it doesn't need to be about someone with opposite body parts that can make you feel uncomfortable if they watch you undress. They need to be providing privacy instead of trying to determine who is getting aroused or traumatized!
I worked in the NHS for 18 years, I regularly got changed into and out of my uniform with various gay colleagues in the room, and one trans guy that I know of. No issues at all. This has been the case ever since changing rooms became a thing. It's only recently it's become politically convenient to kick around people's sexuality like a political football that it's blown up into a big thing.
I had an openly lesbian gym teacher in middle school who watched us change into our swimsuits. We tried to hide behind the locker door as best we could. We complained, but at the time, they weren't willing to do anything to address it. I don't think we've progressed much past that attitude.
In your example, it's great that it was never an issue for you. OP post was an article regarding the trauma that these nurses suffered from, to the point of litigation. Aside from whatever anyone else's experience was, this was apparently far worse.
I think the majority of humanity agrees with this. Those who think otherwise have been living in a delusional bubble catered to by profiteering self-serving corporations. The party is coming to an end, the majority of society is waking up to how ridiculous this extremism is, and the backlash is about to come down hard.
Over the past decade I feel we have been through the abyss, and light is starting to faintly appear at the end of the tunnel. People are starting to wake up to this bullshit.
I think a lot of people are getting sick of having to pretend biological MEN can be women, when BASIC human biology says no you can in fact not change your sex, you are not a fish or a slug.
ADVANCED biology says intersex people do exist
It's just like with basic mathematics telling you there's no square root of minus one meanwhile, in fact, [it does exist](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_unit)
Also not to mention brain structure of a trans person is closer to the sex they're identifying with than the one they were assigned at birth...
Intersex is not transgender. I don’t know why people insist on bringing that up. XX is genetically female, XY is genetically male. XXY exists, XO exists, androgen insensitivity exists, congenital adrenal hyperplasia exists, and 5 alpha reductase deficiency exists. None of those are trans people.
Sure, CAIS and severe 5a reductase deficiency people tend to identify as women because they were raised that way, but they’re only thought of as male by their doctor when there are testicular issues. Everyone else sees them as women because they don’t have a penis. CAH females may be virilized, but they also do not have a penis.
The brain thing is a strange claim that I’ve seen before but as far as I know about neuroanatomy, there’s very little sexual dimorphism in the brain anyway. Trans people may have something with the hypothalamus that makes them trans but to say that they have male/female brains is an absurd claim
‘ADVANCED’ biology doesn’t overwrite basic biology. Intersex is a border case and not synonymous with transgender, so that’s a different argument. Also the square root of minus one is literally the IMAGINARY unit. You linked it yourself. Not sure what your argument is there.
doesnt mean they have miraculously changed the very structure of their being, if you were born a man and all of a sudden you want to be a women, tough shit thats not how life works
>doesnt mean they have miraculously changed the very structure of their being
Who is saying that?
>if you were born a man and all of a sudden you want to be a women
What do you mean all of the sudden? Do you not know what gender dysphoria is?
There is consensus among *some scientists*. To state or imply that the entirety of the scientific community agreed to the same line of thought is categorically false.
Scientists are inherently divisive. We rarely if ever reach consensus on anything and often times distrust even our own results from studies we wrote due to unaccountable variables.
The idea that scientists have reached a consensus on gender dysphoria being a normal state of being and not a mental disorder is absurd. There is/are numerous large & long term studies and many years of experience to say it is a disorder. Studies with much more scientific rigor than any of the poorly crafted studies being pushed by a very vocal, militant, and politically motivated minority.
This is more a question that I'm too afraid to ask anywhere else, and I don't not support trans people, nor do I wish to sound ignorant.. but I'm genuinely curious why we treat gender dysphoria differently than something like body dysmorphia when both mental afflictions (for lack of a better word) make one think they're something they aren't?
SRY gene will tell a person definitively if they are male or female with a chromosomal abnormality. The study most people reference for when it comes to trans brain structure is flawed with one study totally contradicting it. Perpetuating half-baked information as undeniable fact helps no one of any community.
When you say "butchering their sexual organs," what process are you referring to? Also, I'm failing to understand what this has to do with the differences between sex and gender.
The misleadingly named "gender reassignment surgery" which is in reality an effort to change sexes. Trans shouldn't feel the need to change sexes if it's only the gender they have issue with, yet surgery is commonly sought.
I'm not aware of "gender reassignment surgery." I wonder if you are referring to Gender Affirmation Surgery. Is this more in line with what you were thinking?
I just want to establish a common understanding of the language we're using so we don't get confused.
Speaking of which, you described this process as "butchering", to my understanding, it's a safe medical procedure that doesn't lead to any side effects or reason to suggest it would leave the patient "butchered."
Do you have evidence or an argument to justify your claim and why you might call it this?
This was always what people was thinking, people have just stopped giving a fuck about bullies pushing their beliefs with threats of violence if you don't conform.
What if ppl think you are a rapist? And how are you going to tell if it is just a woman who doesn't fit your standards? I agree you can't just throw on a dress and do whatever you want. But I'd straight up go insano style on someone attacking my elderly mom or her friends because they saw a meme.
We can start saying this now? Has basic common sense finally started to return? The lovely suprise and hope I have from reading this comment section. I love you all. Stay truthful everyone
Well if we stopped rewarding and placating mental illness, and treating people like they're special for absolutely nothing; we wouldn't be in this position.
Ex NHS worker here. Got changed many hundreds of times with my trans colleague around in the locker room / toilet area. No worries at all. He liked girls. That's kinda how it works.
Bruh this is a meme thread and y'all are acting like this person got assaulted. SMH. I don't see why we have to exclude people from a changing room for not having the same genitals as others. Your discomfort with others doesn't mean they should be excluded, it means you should confront why THEY make YOU uncomfortable.
So, by your logic, a peeping tom in a woman's bathroom is okay? Just because the woman are uncomfortable changing in front of them doesn't mean the peeper should be excluded?
"Yeah this woman had a huge boner and it made me uncomfortable" - A real sentence in 2024
0.5% of the population getting catered to.
Fucking amen
I wonder how far they'd take this ruling. Are the nurses in both locker rooms also worried about gay and lesbian colleagues staring at their bodies? And who's going to ask that question? Maybe it's time for curtained stalls like a public pool, so nobody has to worry about it.
This sounds like the easy and practical solution. Too bad governments never do the easy and practical thing.
Or maybe is just a matter of keeping Male bathrooms for penises and women bathrooms for vaginas
That doesn't address being stared at by someone who may having matching parts, but prefer those over opposites. I know that's my what the post is about, but it opens that can of worms.
Don't pretend you don't understand the power dynamic, of females being forced to undress in front of a MAN in what is surpost to be a women's only private space.
That’d be pretty uncomfortable but we aren’t talking about a man.
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You’re part of the problem.
We’re talking about men with serious mental problems so large that they are convinced they were born in the wrong body and instead of just being their own person they have to take chemicals and go in a restroom that the rest of the world is decently uncomfortable with just to feel “whole”. Mental illness and you’re just as sick or just a troll for buying into that goodluck
Who is more likely to be turned on by the female anatomy? Trans men or lesbians? I understand the dynamic. I don't know how you draw a line with the trauma that was apparently caused by the ogling.
I'm into women and I've never stared at another woman in a locker room or a female only space. Do not tarnish lesbians with the same brush as these creeps who want to play make believe to get their rocks off.
It's a mostly invented scenario though. I don't understand why people seem to be so eager to make hundreds of thousands of trans women's lives pure hell to put a rather weak speedbump in way of the plans of a tiny number of perverts. It's almost as though the cruelty is the point, as with so many right wing policies.
How is that your argument? Of course it’s uncomfortable having a gay colleague checking you out. I just had this issue with a colleague and got HR involved. You shouldn’t tolerate any sort of sexual harassment
It's not an argument and i agree with you. I'm trying to point out that it doesn't need to be about someone with opposite body parts that can make you feel uncomfortable if they watch you undress. They need to be providing privacy instead of trying to determine who is getting aroused or traumatized!
My mistake, I misinterpreted your message
I worked in the NHS for 18 years, I regularly got changed into and out of my uniform with various gay colleagues in the room, and one trans guy that I know of. No issues at all. This has been the case ever since changing rooms became a thing. It's only recently it's become politically convenient to kick around people's sexuality like a political football that it's blown up into a big thing.
I had an openly lesbian gym teacher in middle school who watched us change into our swimsuits. We tried to hide behind the locker door as best we could. We complained, but at the time, they weren't willing to do anything to address it. I don't think we've progressed much past that attitude. In your example, it's great that it was never an issue for you. OP post was an article regarding the trauma that these nurses suffered from, to the point of litigation. Aside from whatever anyone else's experience was, this was apparently far worse.
This comment section gives me hope.
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There’s a tide turning. Should have seen it at the height of the clowniness
Im just glad the world is ending. AI will take care of this.
I think the majority of humanity agrees with this. Those who think otherwise have been living in a delusional bubble catered to by profiteering self-serving corporations. The party is coming to an end, the majority of society is waking up to how ridiculous this extremism is, and the backlash is about to come down hard.
Over the past decade I feel we have been through the abyss, and light is starting to faintly appear at the end of the tunnel. People are starting to wake up to this bullshit.
Simple, private changing rooms for everyone?
But that would be the smart thing and costs money, can’t possibly do that
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To an extent. I agree it is in a lot of cases, but don’t forget that there are some people with medical issues who may need some corrective surgeries.
Buddy, I don't think if I lost my dick in a horrible accident that I'd go "guess I'm a girl now 🤷♂️" after I get out of the hospital.
That’s not what I said.
I think a lot of people are getting sick of having to pretend biological MEN can be women, when BASIC human biology says no you can in fact not change your sex, you are not a fish or a slug.
Basic biology believers when advanced biology enters the room: ☠️
ADVANCED biology says intersex people do exist It's just like with basic mathematics telling you there's no square root of minus one meanwhile, in fact, [it does exist](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_unit) Also not to mention brain structure of a trans person is closer to the sex they're identifying with than the one they were assigned at birth...
Intersex is not transgender. I don’t know why people insist on bringing that up. XX is genetically female, XY is genetically male. XXY exists, XO exists, androgen insensitivity exists, congenital adrenal hyperplasia exists, and 5 alpha reductase deficiency exists. None of those are trans people. Sure, CAIS and severe 5a reductase deficiency people tend to identify as women because they were raised that way, but they’re only thought of as male by their doctor when there are testicular issues. Everyone else sees them as women because they don’t have a penis. CAH females may be virilized, but they also do not have a penis. The brain thing is a strange claim that I’ve seen before but as far as I know about neuroanatomy, there’s very little sexual dimorphism in the brain anyway. Trans people may have something with the hypothalamus that makes them trans but to say that they have male/female brains is an absurd claim
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‘ADVANCED’ biology doesn’t overwrite basic biology. Intersex is a border case and not synonymous with transgender, so that’s a different argument. Also the square root of minus one is literally the IMAGINARY unit. You linked it yourself. Not sure what your argument is there.
doesnt mean they have miraculously changed the very structure of their being, if you were born a man and all of a sudden you want to be a women, tough shit thats not how life works
>doesnt mean they have miraculously changed the very structure of their being Who is saying that? >if you were born a man and all of a sudden you want to be a women What do you mean all of the sudden? Do you not know what gender dysphoria is?
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There's a consensus in modern science that trans people are are not mentally ill because they're trans
There is consensus among *some scientists*. To state or imply that the entirety of the scientific community agreed to the same line of thought is categorically false.
Scientists are inherently divisive. We rarely if ever reach consensus on anything and often times distrust even our own results from studies we wrote due to unaccountable variables. The idea that scientists have reached a consensus on gender dysphoria being a normal state of being and not a mental disorder is absurd. There is/are numerous large & long term studies and many years of experience to say it is a disorder. Studies with much more scientific rigor than any of the poorly crafted studies being pushed by a very vocal, militant, and politically motivated minority.
This is more a question that I'm too afraid to ask anywhere else, and I don't not support trans people, nor do I wish to sound ignorant.. but I'm genuinely curious why we treat gender dysphoria differently than something like body dysmorphia when both mental afflictions (for lack of a better word) make one think they're something they aren't?
I don’t think referring to “imaginary units” helps to legitimize your argument for a “real” condition
SRY gene will tell a person definitively if they are male or female with a chromosomal abnormality. The study most people reference for when it comes to trans brain structure is flawed with one study totally contradicting it. Perpetuating half-baked information as undeniable fact helps no one of any community.
Jesus christ what a moron
You're confusing sex with gender.
The trans community confuses the 2 all the time
In what way? They seem to have a good grasp on it. I have yet to see a trans person use either term incorrectly.
Why do they insist on butchering their sexual organs in a desperate attempt to feel like the opposite sex then?
When you say "butchering their sexual organs," what process are you referring to? Also, I'm failing to understand what this has to do with the differences between sex and gender.
The misleadingly named "gender reassignment surgery" which is in reality an effort to change sexes. Trans shouldn't feel the need to change sexes if it's only the gender they have issue with, yet surgery is commonly sought.
I'm not aware of "gender reassignment surgery." I wonder if you are referring to Gender Affirmation Surgery. Is this more in line with what you were thinking?
I've heard it called either, squabbling over what it's called misses the point though.
I just want to establish a common understanding of the language we're using so we don't get confused. Speaking of which, you described this process as "butchering", to my understanding, it's a safe medical procedure that doesn't lead to any side effects or reason to suggest it would leave the patient "butchered." Do you have evidence or an argument to justify your claim and why you might call it this?
This comment section shows the world is healing
Can we consider jk Rowling cool again?
This was always what people was thinking, people have just stopped giving a fuck about bullies pushing their beliefs with threats of violence if you don't conform.
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What if ppl think you are a rapist? And how are you going to tell if it is just a woman who doesn't fit your standards? I agree you can't just throw on a dress and do whatever you want. But I'd straight up go insano style on someone attacking my elderly mom or her friends because they saw a meme.
This comment section gave me hope for humanity
Fucking mental disease. Imagine if we catered to other psychological issues like this?
Trans bad
Let’s hope this work
We can start saying this now? Has basic common sense finally started to return? The lovely suprise and hope I have from reading this comment section. I love you all. Stay truthful everyone
I just don't like public changing rooms altogether.
Well if we stopped rewarding and placating mental illness, and treating people like they're special for absolutely nothing; we wouldn't be in this position.
Ex NHS worker here. Got changed many hundreds of times with my trans colleague around in the locker room / toilet area. No worries at all. He liked girls. That's kinda how it works.
Fuck it, time to start punching people
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Bruh this is a meme thread and y'all are acting like this person got assaulted. SMH. I don't see why we have to exclude people from a changing room for not having the same genitals as others. Your discomfort with others doesn't mean they should be excluded, it means you should confront why THEY make YOU uncomfortable.
Why can’t the trans person just be the uncomfortable one and use their assigned bathroom? The many outweigh the few
That's the same argument that was used for water fountains and bathrooms for color people.
Except black people are supposed to be black. It’s a different argument when it comes to mental illness
So by that logic I am assuming you support gay conversation therapy?
Sure but it’s gotta be voluntary. That doesn’t mean it will always work though.
So, by your logic, a peeping tom in a woman's bathroom is okay? Just because the woman are uncomfortable changing in front of them doesn't mean the peeper should be excluded?
We are talking about trans people? There will always be peeping toms, these things are not related.
They are based on the same premis. If a man can't walk into a woman's changeroom and whip his dick out, why is a trans woman allowed to?
So you mean someone that isn't actually trans and is just some straight male pervert?
Just don’t support the mental illness called LGBTQ+ and we good. Time to stop 👍
So I’ve always wondered is being a lesbian in that situation better?
It's bad in every way