Pregnancy is a natural transition. So is death. Both have plenty of symptoms. I would doubt the veracity of your sources, or at least check if they are trying to gain points for discounting menopause at all.
Good point! I was thinking the same thing about menstruation; totally natural, still has symptoms. The papers in question are not medical papers; I think that also colors the way that they write about menopause.
For context/in case you are interested, here are two examples: [This paper](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277539508000691?via%3Dihub) is (in my opinion) a really nice critique of the way medical discourse influences the way we talk/think about menopause, and while they ***do*** use the word symptoms, they are critical of the medicalized way that menopause tends to be framed and discussed. [This paper](https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3290607.3299066) explores the role design and technology could have in supporting people going through menopause. They include this note next to their introduction:
>*Menopause is not a disease, but a natural transition of life. Instead of using the word "symptom," we use "biological change" or "signal" to define the effects of menopause. Signals can include hot flashes, night sweats, vaginal dryness, and sleeping difficulties.*
Edit: To be clear, I do *not* necessarily agree with the above quote. I'm just showing an example of researchers taking issue with the word "symptoms".
Being natural and being medicalized aren't mutually exclusive. Cancer is also a completely natural process. I think we all need to take a step back from the [naturalistic fallacy](https://ethics.org.au/ethics-explainer-naturalistic-fallacy/).
Yeah, I've heard this A LOT (not just from reading lol, also from people I know irl) about doctors not taking menopausal symptoms seriously 🙁 I find it really upsetting just to hear from others, can't imagine how frustrating it must be to actually sit in front of a medical professional and know that they are not taking you seriously. Sorry to hear that you had/have to deal with that, and I hope that you were/are able to receive the care you need.
To make sure I'm not misrepresenting the researchers I'm talking about, I will add: they're definitely *not* saying that menopause is perfectly fine and fun, or that it requires no medical care. They're just critical of the way menopause is generally framed as a "problem to be fixed", rather than a complex and multifaceted experience which you can not necessarily "fix" but through which you *can* support people, through both medical and non-medical means. I think that's fair; I just don't agree with them that the use of the word "symptoms" is necessarily problematic.
Edit: I wanted to add a clarification here, I'm *not* saying menopause can't be a problem, or that people shouldn't want to "fix" their symptoms. Just that (from my understanding) menopause often can't be boiled down to: medical problem>take medication>fixed. Even if a medication helps, it doesn't mean that menopausal care should end there. E.g. someone might still have to deal with stigma in their workplace, and they should be supported through that, even if it's not something that has a medical "fix".
My apologies if my original comment sounds dismissive. That was not my intention at all.
The symptoms of menopause are in my mind a problem to be fixed. I don't see a benefit to pretending it's a natural therefore positive experience. Cancer is natural. It doesn't mean I want to experience it.
There really hasn't been enough of a medical approach to menopause. That's one of the reasons why there are still a lot of misconceptions about HRT and the medical risks that increase with meno.
Just one example- hot flashes are associated with an increase in dementia and a decline of cognitive function. But HRT greatly improves those risks. But many if not most women don't know this because we are never told. That aspect alone during peak earning years at the end of our typical working lives has a huge impact on quality of life both in terms of health and financial security.
It IS a medical concern and I would rather see it recognized as such than as a "transition" or stage.
I mean it is a problem for some of us. I was straight ready to end my life because my provider didn't recognize what was going on despite age, no periods, etc and I had no idea either. It needed fixing. HRT did that for me.
I still have aging related issues but I do not have "time to drive my car into oncoming traffic" issues out of frustration and rage over things that were literally nothing except the massive change in hormones from menopause.
That sounds horrible, I'm so sorry you had to go through that, and I'm glad that HRT helped.
Sorry if my comment above sounded dismissive; I'm not trying to say that menopause can't be a problem, or that certain symptoms can't be debilitating or dangerous. I'm trying to say that menopausal care might need to go further than just medical treatment, and that even once certain symptoms are fixed through medication, a person might still need additional support while they go through the rest of their (peri)menopausal years. At least that's how I understood the "it's not a problem to be fixed" stance when I read it; there are parts of menopause that you can "fix" with medication (e.g. hormone changes), but also parts that we cannot "fix" with medication but which ***are*** difficult and that we ***do*** need to support people with (e.g. experiencing stigma, feeling alienated/isolated, etc).
I'll add an edit to my original comment because I'm really not trying to sound like I'm making light of how difficult menopause can be. On the contrary.
"At least it's still warm!" 😭 Yeah this is also what I was thinking, I feel like not calling it "symptoms" veers into the direction of forced positivity. While I don't think that that is the intention, that's the feeling it gave me.
Sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time. I know it means little coming from a stranger on the internet, but I hope it gets better soon, and that the "upsides" start appearing.
Signs and symptoms are perfectly acceptable, and normal, terms to use in my opinion - they’re used for practically everything and help communicate and document what people experience. When I studied anatomy and physiology, and pathology, these were terms used for everything.
The articles trying to push a narrative of the “over-medicalising” of menopause and stating it’s a natural process that doesn’t need treatment are what anger me (rant incoming, lol). They read like some patriarchal, misogynistic BS where anyone seeking medication or assistance for their “experience” should be ashamed. As if we’re just supposed to put up with it and suffer in silence?
Medical research is still so far behind where it needs to be - it takes so long to get diagnosed with conditions affecting AFAB people as a result. Women weren’t included in medical research until 1993 and the impact of that is telling, with things like hormonal contraception and examination devices like speculums largely unchanged for decades. They weren’t designed with women’s bodies in mind. The fact that a male contraceptive pill was dismissed/failed medical trials for having side effects that were minimal in comparison to the pill women take is telling.
Endometriosis is listed as one of the top 10 most debilitating conditions known, yet it can take up to 10+ years to be diagnosed - I have a lot of anger about this because I presented with symptoms of it for years and was repeatedly dismissed, so it wasn’t diagnosed until my late 30s when I was undergoing treatment for infertility.
When I realised I was experiencing symptoms of perimenopause in my early 40s (and it took for it to include signs of atrophy), I sought out medical help and told my GP I’d suffered through most of my menstrual years and I wasn’t prepared to suffer through this next phase of my life. But it took for things to get really bad before I even made an appointment, out of fear I’d be dismissed or told I was imagining how bad it was.
Anyone wanting to argue that this should be a wholly natural process without medical assistance can do one, because how can you argue that when there is next to fuck-all research or evidence on what we went through historically? It’s not possible to draw accurate comparisons because the data doesn’t exist. That’s not to say that individuals can’t manage it “naturally” because not everyone suffers, not everyone experiences it the same, and not everyone benefits from the medication on offer. But it should be a choice for each individual to make, and people should be empowered to make the best choices for themselves without fear of stigma or discrimination.
We need to include terminology like “symptoms” because it is the only way to accurately gather and track data, and provide a diagnosis. Perimenopause is worthy of a diagnosis because of the wide-ranging impact it has on people, and because some do need medication. We are still only learning about just how much of a role oestrogen plays, with more recent information coming out on it impacting on bone and heart health amongst others. We all deserve a better quality of life and this is a large part of how we get there.
>But it took for things to get really bad before I even made an appointment, out of fear I’d be dismissed or told I was imagining how bad it was.
This is *such* a hard part, for a lot of us. It is so traumatic to feel helpless to improve your situation. I always have a plan B, or the next step (next doc appointment; new supplement to try or whatever) in place just in case I am told to suck it up, which helps me not lose it entirely. And it is so hard to politely call doctors out, so they might change their minds and help you, rather than screaming at them for being complete morons. The emotional work is *exhausting*.
The "over-medicalizing" thing makes me wild. The language should be simple: **suffering=symptoms** at absolute minimum.
Ok, I'll get off the soap box now.
The more something is identified as a disease, the more political and corporate and medical dollars might flow into fixing it for me. I’m happy with that model and don’t believe that “natural” processes are necessarily optimal, suitable options for our current society, or humane. Just like I would encourage a loved one with advanced cancer to look into all advanced medicalized hospice and assisted death measures, rather than insist that death is “natural”. Once my brain began to struggle due to lack of estrogen I quickly became less concerned with semantics.
Well said. Some of the writers/researchers I've read are also critical that the de-medicalization of menopause will only place a bigger burden on the people going through it to deal with it by themselves and with even less (medical) support.
I think the people who are wary of the word "symptoms" want menopause to be considered more holistically; not just a physical issue that you can "fix" with medicine, but something that affects a person's entire life, e.g. also emotionally, socially, professionally, etc... I think the worry is that if menopause becomes overly medicalized, the provided support will be too simplified, like "just take HRT and you'll be fine!". But I think we can fight for menopause to be recognized as an issue that people need medical support with, while simultaneously normalizing it in social contexts and showing that it is not "just" the physiological symptoms that people deal with.
I think it's utter and complete bullshit. Makes me feel murdery.
It's often an extremely unpleasant experience, if FEELS LIKE the complete breakdown of the body, like several organs just failing at once (it's really the ovaries "failling" causing it all, but it feels like all of a sudden one's entire body is failing). The most brutal physical and mental experience I have ever experienced. I'm not sure the process of dying wouldn't be more pleasant than some of my late stage peri experiences (except that you end up dead at the end I guess). It's ok, I'm past the worst of it (post-menopausal), and on HRT, but yea.
That’s so weird, I can’t imagine men’s aging process to ever be described this way (“experiences of low testosterone,” etc.) so it DOES feel like it’s de-emphasizing the impact menopause symptoms can have
Trueee, I had not even considered that angle! Language like that can unintionally come across like a euphemism or trying to downplay or conceal something, like when people talk about "feminine issues 🌸✨".
Right? Lack of blood flow to the penis is acted upon with due haste, even if a man is currently using blood pressure meds which may be affected. They can get a vasectomy and Viagra and be right as rain sitting with a bag of ice on their crotch watching the basketball playoffs in the spring.
Most diseases could be considered a natural transition - if you live long enough most people will get cancer of some sort - it’s really just parts of the bodies code breaking down.
Unless you want to restrict the use of the word disease to mean something triggered by infection - the same could by said about many congenital disorders such as blindness, deafness, being born missing limbs or organs, having MS or any other genetic disorder.
They are symptoms! We are suffering horribly and thos sounds like another way for doctors to ignore and downplay women's experiences.
Natural does not mean liveable. If my health issues had been treated 'naturally ' at birth I would be dead
I understand what you mean... This idea that pain and discomfort are just an inherent part of being a woman, or that women are must be exaggerating when they say they are in pain 🙄 It's bizarre how prevalant that kind of thinking still is.
To be clear, I don't think that this is what these writers intend; most of them are women and the papers are explicitly feminist. The two papers I linked in an earlier comment are quite passionate about destigmatizing menopause, and making life better for menopausal people. The issue of "symptoms vs signs/experiences" is mentioned only briefly, it's not like the whole point of their papers is trying to argue against the word "symptoms" or something like that. Just to reassure you that it's not a bunch of shitty misogynists, but rather genuinely great feminist researchers who I personally disagree with on this one issue 😅
I experience peri and have several symptoms that lowers my mental health and function. These symptoms can go away or have less impact on my life if I get treatment for it.
If I had no symptoms that affected my life in a negative way. I'd say that a change in my cycle was a sign that I'm in peri menopause.
There. Now I used all three words; experience, sign and symptoms. I think they all serve a purpose to explain different aspects of our journey.
They are symptoms. It’s a descriptive word and peri/menopause does have symptoms.
I feel pretty mad that most doctors are woefully ignorant about menopause. The term “symptoms” is not remotely a problem.
If I'm in pain or otherwise suffering from negative "signs" or "experiences" that require or can be alleviated with medical intervention, it's a symptom.
Symptoms and signs have very specific definitions within the medical field. A symptom is something noticed/felt by the patient and a sign is something perceived by the physician. Both indicate a valid medical condition and the term “signs” should never be used to “downgrade” a medical condition.
Good to know, I was not aware that "sign" also has a specific medical definition. I went back to some of the papers I read and I think this might be a mistake on my part in the original post; as far as I can tell most of the works I read used "signal", not "sign" like I thought. Thank you for the heads-up, I will be sure to also be careful with my own terminology going forward and not use "sign" where it is inappropriate.
I don't think of Menopause as a 'natural transition'. I think of it as "Premature Organ Failure". If men were expected to live with a 'natural transition' that took their energy, mental function, fertility and gave them a host of uncomfortable side effects, you can bet there would be a lot more study on it.
Some of the symptoms of menopause are in line with other medicalized 'diseases'. I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, and many of the symptoms are the exact same as menopause symptoms. It is also a natural process and is very much medicalized. I'm just 'ugh' with the 'natural transition' talk. We shouldn't just accept one organ failing faster than natural lifespan any more than we would any other organ, even though it seems to be a feature and not a bug. If everyone's appendix went necrotic around age 50 and required surgery to remove it ($$$) you can bet they'd be looking for a solution.
I am not on board with living decades without ovarian function and if there were any clinical tests to reverse or delay menopause I'd be first in line. I miss the old me.
*"If men were expected to live with a 'natural transition' that took their energy, mental function, fertility and gave them a host of uncomfortable side effects, you can bet there would be a lot more study on it."*
💯💯💯 Amen. This is sooo real and so infuriating.
You know what I’m worried about is that now my symptoms have been repeatedly dismissed. So, I just deal with the symptoms. I don’t go to the doctor anymore, because, well they aren’t going to do anything anyway to ease/fix my symptoms. I am worried that I am going to have a “real” serious medical problem with “real” symptoms someday, but chalk it up to menopause symptoms and not get the medical help I need. This goes way beyond the word “symptom” Menopause needs to be a medical diagnosis with clear paths for treatment. However, we are the other side of the misogynistic forced birth issue. We are no longer needed to bear children, so we can easily be discarded. Female aging is not given the care and attention it needs.
Pregnancy is a natural transition. So is death. Both have plenty of symptoms. I would doubt the veracity of your sources, or at least check if they are trying to gain points for discounting menopause at all.
Good point! I was thinking the same thing about menstruation; totally natural, still has symptoms. The papers in question are not medical papers; I think that also colors the way that they write about menopause. For context/in case you are interested, here are two examples: [This paper](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277539508000691?via%3Dihub) is (in my opinion) a really nice critique of the way medical discourse influences the way we talk/think about menopause, and while they ***do*** use the word symptoms, they are critical of the medicalized way that menopause tends to be framed and discussed. [This paper](https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3290607.3299066) explores the role design and technology could have in supporting people going through menopause. They include this note next to their introduction: >*Menopause is not a disease, but a natural transition of life. Instead of using the word "symptom," we use "biological change" or "signal" to define the effects of menopause. Signals can include hot flashes, night sweats, vaginal dryness, and sleeping difficulties.* Edit: To be clear, I do *not* necessarily agree with the above quote. I'm just showing an example of researchers taking issue with the word "symptoms".
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Being natural and being medicalized aren't mutually exclusive. Cancer is also a completely natural process. I think we all need to take a step back from the [naturalistic fallacy](https://ethics.org.au/ethics-explainer-naturalistic-fallacy/).
Yeah, I've heard this A LOT (not just from reading lol, also from people I know irl) about doctors not taking menopausal symptoms seriously 🙁 I find it really upsetting just to hear from others, can't imagine how frustrating it must be to actually sit in front of a medical professional and know that they are not taking you seriously. Sorry to hear that you had/have to deal with that, and I hope that you were/are able to receive the care you need. To make sure I'm not misrepresenting the researchers I'm talking about, I will add: they're definitely *not* saying that menopause is perfectly fine and fun, or that it requires no medical care. They're just critical of the way menopause is generally framed as a "problem to be fixed", rather than a complex and multifaceted experience which you can not necessarily "fix" but through which you *can* support people, through both medical and non-medical means. I think that's fair; I just don't agree with them that the use of the word "symptoms" is necessarily problematic. Edit: I wanted to add a clarification here, I'm *not* saying menopause can't be a problem, or that people shouldn't want to "fix" their symptoms. Just that (from my understanding) menopause often can't be boiled down to: medical problem>take medication>fixed. Even if a medication helps, it doesn't mean that menopausal care should end there. E.g. someone might still have to deal with stigma in their workplace, and they should be supported through that, even if it's not something that has a medical "fix". My apologies if my original comment sounds dismissive. That was not my intention at all.
The symptoms of menopause are in my mind a problem to be fixed. I don't see a benefit to pretending it's a natural therefore positive experience. Cancer is natural. It doesn't mean I want to experience it. There really hasn't been enough of a medical approach to menopause. That's one of the reasons why there are still a lot of misconceptions about HRT and the medical risks that increase with meno. Just one example- hot flashes are associated with an increase in dementia and a decline of cognitive function. But HRT greatly improves those risks. But many if not most women don't know this because we are never told. That aspect alone during peak earning years at the end of our typical working lives has a huge impact on quality of life both in terms of health and financial security. It IS a medical concern and I would rather see it recognized as such than as a "transition" or stage.
I mean it is a problem for some of us. I was straight ready to end my life because my provider didn't recognize what was going on despite age, no periods, etc and I had no idea either. It needed fixing. HRT did that for me. I still have aging related issues but I do not have "time to drive my car into oncoming traffic" issues out of frustration and rage over things that were literally nothing except the massive change in hormones from menopause.
That sounds horrible, I'm so sorry you had to go through that, and I'm glad that HRT helped. Sorry if my comment above sounded dismissive; I'm not trying to say that menopause can't be a problem, or that certain symptoms can't be debilitating or dangerous. I'm trying to say that menopausal care might need to go further than just medical treatment, and that even once certain symptoms are fixed through medication, a person might still need additional support while they go through the rest of their (peri)menopausal years. At least that's how I understood the "it's not a problem to be fixed" stance when I read it; there are parts of menopause that you can "fix" with medication (e.g. hormone changes), but also parts that we cannot "fix" with medication but which ***are*** difficult and that we ***do*** need to support people with (e.g. experiencing stigma, feeling alienated/isolated, etc). I'll add an edit to my original comment because I'm really not trying to sound like I'm making light of how difficult menopause can be. On the contrary.
Menopause is a problem to be fixed. And there is treatment. We shouldn’t be told we should just accept it or what we should call the symptoms.
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"At least it's still warm!" 😭 Yeah this is also what I was thinking, I feel like not calling it "symptoms" veers into the direction of forced positivity. While I don't think that that is the intention, that's the feeling it gave me. Sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time. I know it means little coming from a stranger on the internet, but I hope it gets better soon, and that the "upsides" start appearing.
Gurl, I haven't had an upside either. Meno has been all bad for me.
Signs and symptoms are perfectly acceptable, and normal, terms to use in my opinion - they’re used for practically everything and help communicate and document what people experience. When I studied anatomy and physiology, and pathology, these were terms used for everything. The articles trying to push a narrative of the “over-medicalising” of menopause and stating it’s a natural process that doesn’t need treatment are what anger me (rant incoming, lol). They read like some patriarchal, misogynistic BS where anyone seeking medication or assistance for their “experience” should be ashamed. As if we’re just supposed to put up with it and suffer in silence? Medical research is still so far behind where it needs to be - it takes so long to get diagnosed with conditions affecting AFAB people as a result. Women weren’t included in medical research until 1993 and the impact of that is telling, with things like hormonal contraception and examination devices like speculums largely unchanged for decades. They weren’t designed with women’s bodies in mind. The fact that a male contraceptive pill was dismissed/failed medical trials for having side effects that were minimal in comparison to the pill women take is telling. Endometriosis is listed as one of the top 10 most debilitating conditions known, yet it can take up to 10+ years to be diagnosed - I have a lot of anger about this because I presented with symptoms of it for years and was repeatedly dismissed, so it wasn’t diagnosed until my late 30s when I was undergoing treatment for infertility. When I realised I was experiencing symptoms of perimenopause in my early 40s (and it took for it to include signs of atrophy), I sought out medical help and told my GP I’d suffered through most of my menstrual years and I wasn’t prepared to suffer through this next phase of my life. But it took for things to get really bad before I even made an appointment, out of fear I’d be dismissed or told I was imagining how bad it was. Anyone wanting to argue that this should be a wholly natural process without medical assistance can do one, because how can you argue that when there is next to fuck-all research or evidence on what we went through historically? It’s not possible to draw accurate comparisons because the data doesn’t exist. That’s not to say that individuals can’t manage it “naturally” because not everyone suffers, not everyone experiences it the same, and not everyone benefits from the medication on offer. But it should be a choice for each individual to make, and people should be empowered to make the best choices for themselves without fear of stigma or discrimination. We need to include terminology like “symptoms” because it is the only way to accurately gather and track data, and provide a diagnosis. Perimenopause is worthy of a diagnosis because of the wide-ranging impact it has on people, and because some do need medication. We are still only learning about just how much of a role oestrogen plays, with more recent information coming out on it impacting on bone and heart health amongst others. We all deserve a better quality of life and this is a large part of how we get there.
>But it took for things to get really bad before I even made an appointment, out of fear I’d be dismissed or told I was imagining how bad it was. This is *such* a hard part, for a lot of us. It is so traumatic to feel helpless to improve your situation. I always have a plan B, or the next step (next doc appointment; new supplement to try or whatever) in place just in case I am told to suck it up, which helps me not lose it entirely. And it is so hard to politely call doctors out, so they might change their minds and help you, rather than screaming at them for being complete morons. The emotional work is *exhausting*. The "over-medicalizing" thing makes me wild. The language should be simple: **suffering=symptoms** at absolute minimum. Ok, I'll get off the soap box now.
This is so well written and mirrors my sentiment exactly. I hope you receive a thousand upvotes!!!
Aww thank you - I’m quite passionate about it, haha :)
The more something is identified as a disease, the more political and corporate and medical dollars might flow into fixing it for me. I’m happy with that model and don’t believe that “natural” processes are necessarily optimal, suitable options for our current society, or humane. Just like I would encourage a loved one with advanced cancer to look into all advanced medicalized hospice and assisted death measures, rather than insist that death is “natural”. Once my brain began to struggle due to lack of estrogen I quickly became less concerned with semantics.
Well said. Some of the writers/researchers I've read are also critical that the de-medicalization of menopause will only place a bigger burden on the people going through it to deal with it by themselves and with even less (medical) support. I think the people who are wary of the word "symptoms" want menopause to be considered more holistically; not just a physical issue that you can "fix" with medicine, but something that affects a person's entire life, e.g. also emotionally, socially, professionally, etc... I think the worry is that if menopause becomes overly medicalized, the provided support will be too simplified, like "just take HRT and you'll be fine!". But I think we can fight for menopause to be recognized as an issue that people need medical support with, while simultaneously normalizing it in social contexts and showing that it is not "just" the physiological symptoms that people deal with.
I think it's utter and complete bullshit. Makes me feel murdery. It's often an extremely unpleasant experience, if FEELS LIKE the complete breakdown of the body, like several organs just failing at once (it's really the ovaries "failling" causing it all, but it feels like all of a sudden one's entire body is failing). The most brutal physical and mental experience I have ever experienced. I'm not sure the process of dying wouldn't be more pleasant than some of my late stage peri experiences (except that you end up dead at the end I guess). It's ok, I'm past the worst of it (post-menopausal), and on HRT, but yea.
What are your symptoms?
That’s so weird, I can’t imagine men’s aging process to ever be described this way (“experiences of low testosterone,” etc.) so it DOES feel like it’s de-emphasizing the impact menopause symptoms can have
Trueee, I had not even considered that angle! Language like that can unintionally come across like a euphemism or trying to downplay or conceal something, like when people talk about "feminine issues 🌸✨".
Right? Lack of blood flow to the penis is acted upon with due haste, even if a man is currently using blood pressure meds which may be affected. They can get a vasectomy and Viagra and be right as rain sitting with a bag of ice on their crotch watching the basketball playoffs in the spring.
Most diseases could be considered a natural transition - if you live long enough most people will get cancer of some sort - it’s really just parts of the bodies code breaking down. Unless you want to restrict the use of the word disease to mean something triggered by infection - the same could by said about many congenital disorders such as blindness, deafness, being born missing limbs or organs, having MS or any other genetic disorder.
They are symptoms! We are suffering horribly and thos sounds like another way for doctors to ignore and downplay women's experiences. Natural does not mean liveable. If my health issues had been treated 'naturally ' at birth I would be dead
I feel the authors of those papers are continuing medicine’s utter dismissal of women’s physical experiences. It’s sexist as fuck.
I understand what you mean... This idea that pain and discomfort are just an inherent part of being a woman, or that women are must be exaggerating when they say they are in pain 🙄 It's bizarre how prevalant that kind of thinking still is. To be clear, I don't think that this is what these writers intend; most of them are women and the papers are explicitly feminist. The two papers I linked in an earlier comment are quite passionate about destigmatizing menopause, and making life better for menopausal people. The issue of "symptoms vs signs/experiences" is mentioned only briefly, it's not like the whole point of their papers is trying to argue against the word "symptoms" or something like that. Just to reassure you that it's not a bunch of shitty misogynists, but rather genuinely great feminist researchers who I personally disagree with on this one issue 😅
I experience peri and have several symptoms that lowers my mental health and function. These symptoms can go away or have less impact on my life if I get treatment for it. If I had no symptoms that affected my life in a negative way. I'd say that a change in my cycle was a sign that I'm in peri menopause. There. Now I used all three words; experience, sign and symptoms. I think they all serve a purpose to explain different aspects of our journey.
They are symptoms. It’s a descriptive word and peri/menopause does have symptoms. I feel pretty mad that most doctors are woefully ignorant about menopause. The term “symptoms” is not remotely a problem.
If I'm in pain or otherwise suffering from negative "signs" or "experiences" that require or can be alleviated with medical intervention, it's a symptom.
Well said! ❤️
Symptoms and signs have very specific definitions within the medical field. A symptom is something noticed/felt by the patient and a sign is something perceived by the physician. Both indicate a valid medical condition and the term “signs” should never be used to “downgrade” a medical condition.
Good to know, I was not aware that "sign" also has a specific medical definition. I went back to some of the papers I read and I think this might be a mistake on my part in the original post; as far as I can tell most of the works I read used "signal", not "sign" like I thought. Thank you for the heads-up, I will be sure to also be careful with my own terminology going forward and not use "sign" where it is inappropriate.
I don't think of Menopause as a 'natural transition'. I think of it as "Premature Organ Failure". If men were expected to live with a 'natural transition' that took their energy, mental function, fertility and gave them a host of uncomfortable side effects, you can bet there would be a lot more study on it. Some of the symptoms of menopause are in line with other medicalized 'diseases'. I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, and many of the symptoms are the exact same as menopause symptoms. It is also a natural process and is very much medicalized. I'm just 'ugh' with the 'natural transition' talk. We shouldn't just accept one organ failing faster than natural lifespan any more than we would any other organ, even though it seems to be a feature and not a bug. If everyone's appendix went necrotic around age 50 and required surgery to remove it ($$$) you can bet they'd be looking for a solution. I am not on board with living decades without ovarian function and if there were any clinical tests to reverse or delay menopause I'd be first in line. I miss the old me.
*"If men were expected to live with a 'natural transition' that took their energy, mental function, fertility and gave them a host of uncomfortable side effects, you can bet there would be a lot more study on it."* 💯💯💯 Amen. This is sooo real and so infuriating.
It’s accurate AF, more than I ever expected. I thought I was dying of something
Those people can get bent. It’s a natural transition that comes with symptoms and medical conditions.
You know what I’m worried about is that now my symptoms have been repeatedly dismissed. So, I just deal with the symptoms. I don’t go to the doctor anymore, because, well they aren’t going to do anything anyway to ease/fix my symptoms. I am worried that I am going to have a “real” serious medical problem with “real” symptoms someday, but chalk it up to menopause symptoms and not get the medical help I need. This goes way beyond the word “symptom” Menopause needs to be a medical diagnosis with clear paths for treatment. However, we are the other side of the misogynistic forced birth issue. We are no longer needed to bear children, so we can easily be discarded. Female aging is not given the care and attention it needs.
I’m fine with it