For every man who kills himself...
It's been a journey with multiple assaults on his wellness, and
There are many men who are thinking about it.
An iceberg of icebergs.
One of the worst things: You can't even talk about it to anyone because you'll get punished for it with getting hospitalized instead of addressing any of the problems which are causing it in the first place.
You're *sort of* right, yes.. That *is* what they're there for.. The thing is just that this hospitalization *should* be a *last resort*. And while you could very well argue that this is exactly what it is used for at this time. The problem is that in 99.9% of the cases should never have come to this point in the first place.
Most of the suicidal men can be helped if only they have someone that they feel that *truly* cares. It really doesn't have to be *that* much, just someone that *genuinely* takes an interest in them as a person.
*If* you're being hospitalized, it should be to benefit *you* the person being hospitalized. It shouldn't be a drain on you and your future, it should be there when there's really nothing else and you're about to hurt yourself.
So TLDR: Yes it is a good thing that hospitalization is an option, but most of the time this "help" comes too late and hospitalization could have been avoided if someone just cared enough.
Beneath the surface of male suicide lies a murky world of icy darkness, and the shards of hidden trauma.
Like an iceberg – we limit men’s issues to what we can see, that icy white cap, and never look for what lies below.
Because beneath the calm, demure surface, often hides stories of the abused men, or bullied boys, tales of trauma, or neglect, and sexual violence; the life of the addicted, the lonely, or those fighting a losing battle for child custody…
Stories we ignore and wave away as not possible, or as insignificant, or arrogantly berate as *‘hijacking the conversation’.*
And so the secret epidemic, unnoticed, drifts closer and closer still, until it crashes into the side of our boat, making real what we chose to ignore, to devastating consequences.
We care then.
When the sun loungers and beach towels of society are disturbed, and the water rushes in, we scrabble around in a panic…
We treat the issue *too late.*
The cause of a man’s suicide has taken its toll, and any chance to prevent or change course, to sail for safer waters, has long since gone.
Because suicide is not a distinct issue, but the end destination of various other problems when the volume is turned up to ten, and all hope has gone.
It is, a *‘rational and solution based decision’,* as is coldly described by the latest research.
It is not something to be pathologised and medicated as *‘abnormal’*, seen primarily as a *‘mental health problem’,* or part of a *‘toxic’* male mindset that needs to be talked away.
And such perspectives have clearly failed us.
Failed because research often finds that suicidal men don’t consider their problem as being a *‘mental health problem’,* as they are left to grapple with what lays beneath the surface.
And I know…
It’s easier to acknowledge only what we can see, to throw the burden of responsibility back upon men. But as with icebergs; we need to peer deeper, and further into the distance, to understand, before it’s too late.
So how far can you see, and how deep dare you look?
What do you think?
\~
[\[1\]](https://tinyurl.com/4v7989sz) [\[2\]](https://tinyurl.com/v5jh38yw) [\[3\]](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31638469/) [\[4\]](https://equi-law.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/APPG-MB-Male-Suicide-Report-9-22.pdf)
Images by Kamran abdullayev, Alexandros Giannakakis, Annie Spratts, Hans Isaacs, Kristaps Ungurs, Paul-Campbell.
One of the most heinous feminist talking points is the idea that men commit suicide more often because supposedly they are conditioned to be selfish and pursue a goal (the goal in this question being suicide) at all costs. Hence by that logic men would be inclined to use severe methods for death such as hanging or a firearm.
That’s true and may have been co-opted by feminists but men use more lethal means in their suicide attempts like firearms and jumping off bridges. Women are more likely to attempt in overdose and that usually fails.
there’s an actual reason for that but if i say it i’ll be burned at the stake, so i’ll just say vaguely: if someone really wants to kill themself, why wouldn’t they use a method with a 99% success rate as opposed to a method with a 50% success rate?
I fear this. I have an idea that male suicide and more men refusing to work will just be viewed as economic problems. Any "solution" will most likely do nothing even remotely helpful.
Who knows where this will lead? I feel that our culture may eventually rebound and normalize, but who knows when/even if that will happen? How is this all going to end up in the long term?
When men want to kill themselves it's for a REASON. We talk about depression and anxiety and all this other stuff, but these guys just want their suffering to end and they see no way to fix it any more.
Instead of fixing the problem, doctors put you on drugs that just make you numb and not care about fixing the problem any more then take away your means. In other words, their goal is to simply make you OK with your suffering rather than actually alleviate it and help you fix your problems.
It can also be considered an iceberg in the sense that we don't know the actual frequency of male suicide.
We know, for example, that many suicides get reported as accidents, but the case can also be made that men also frequently engage in behavior that they fully expect to kill them, which can be considered a form of suicide in itself.
The unfortunate news is, for as long as the problem doesn't affect greater society to the severity level required for them to pay attention & make the changes needed to even out the male-to-female self-deletion ratio (or better yet bring the ratio down to 0/0), the problem will continue to gradually worsen (by that, I mean the discrepancy in the ratio of male-to-female self-deletions) until greater society is impacted to the point where changing is the ONLY choice.
Not necessarily what I'm saying. The fact that people are self-deleting on both sides at the rates they are is an indicator that there are multiple systemic issues at play that are causing the increase in the rates on both sides. By creating & implementing centric solutions, we can create a fairer society where when both parties express their issues, their issues are taken **equally** seriously, there's **equal** accountability on both sides, a **direct positive** correlation at all times between actions & consequences in nature & magnitude on both sides. That I believe is paramount to bringing the rates of self-deletions on both sides as close to 0:0 as possible.
Any idea how this will affect women? I don't see how this phenomenon will ever affect women, tbh. Maybe if enough women have men in their families who commit suicide, but even then, that's the only way I possibly see this as becoming a "societal" issue. I feel it's more likely that a lack of worker-drones will cause people to try to force more work on men, but I don't even really see that leading to a response to the male suicide epidemic.
I was mostly just pointing out a jaded answer of society doesn't do anything reactionary when it only affects men. If women are even slightly inconvenienced, then society bows down and fixes it.
But, to directly answer your question, men pay in the most taxes, alimony, and child support by far. So women are affected. Men most dead, women most affected.
Neglect neglect neglect. Our culture is reactive and not proactive. I wonder if the “react” will ever even happen. I’ve talked with many women, and what I’ve noticed is if the issue doesn’t directly affect them or serve them, they don’t give a flying fuck. Women are monumentally selfish. Many of the women in PurplePillDebate sub that I argue with always reach a conclusion of “why should I care” or “I don’t care if your right” or “I don’t care what men think” or “I couldn’t give a shit about men’s issues “. They don’t even have arguments because they don’t care about truth. Like seriously they don’t care about consequences or of how small things affect society at large. They simply don’t care. They will lie and lie and lie until they die.
They won't change either. If we base most social interactions on an exchange, The only possible case would be, precisely, to enslave women, which is morally questionable.
Not enslave, control. They don't want to see anything that smacks of control, or shame, or accountability, because decades of propaganda have told them that is bad, full stop. But yes, women are hold to totally different standards from men due to sexual, psychological and social complex dynamics.
Thanks for highlighting this important issue.
I knew this was a serious problem, but did not realise how much until I saw the breakdown in this link (see the section titled *'Countries and territories by suicide rate'*):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
In the majority of cases, the male suicide rate is far more than that of women.
The conspiracy theorist in me almost wonders if there's a global sinister plot underway to cull the population of men; by making policies & laws so gynocentrically hopeless for men that they are driven to kill themselves.
Poverty. It’s going to get like that here with the way inequality is going, my good friend ended his life recently only for what I assume is socioeconomic reasons.
I agree with your comment after all one of the aims of feminism is to destroy the family by convincing many people to believe the patriarchy (rule of the father) is an evil system of oppression.
I love that last paragraph. I'm all for conspiracy theories. I've already seen others theorize that women have been given so much disproportionate power because they are easier to control and are more consumerist.
We aren’t smart enough as a species for many conspiracies to hold any value. I always have to keep that in mind. We sleep walk into tragedy even when the smartest of us are predicting it.
Then every business that engages in any marketing is a conspiracy.
Every political campaign that relies on emotional rhetoric.
Every white lie we tell children to motivate better behavior too.
It seems like an inadequate definition to me.
The only conclusion (singular) I made was the last sentence, that your definition is inadequate.
The rest of my sentences were examples of what would be true if your definition were adequate. I'm glad you agree they are incoherent.
This will always be neglected and never pointed out, even if some "equal rights" organisations DO point it out, it would be solely to prove those statistics "fake" and will pull the new one from their ass.
More men suffer, in silence, due to toxic femininity than they have ever suffered from toxic masculinity. The idea that men just kill themselves because they are toxic to themselves is a projection predominantly pushed by misandric women, it is toxic femininity.
“you guys just kys because of toxic masculinity” = all the problems are caused exclusively by yourselves.
In others words: always blaming the victim, isn’t that what they love to say all the time?
I disagree, while it's not the actual guy doing it to himself. It's all the men around him, and it is, in part, toxic masculinity. The vast majority of men who get sexually assaulted are asexually assaulted by other men. Men who get domestically abused are by the vast majority getting domestically abused by other men. If you got laid off of work that caused you financial trouble, your manager, the vast majority of the time, is going to be a man.
If you're afraid of getting laughed at for telling your sexual assault story, it's going to be by other men. This one is anecdotal, but the number of times I've seen horrible stories of a boy who had been raped and the replies are of men going.
"I wish that were me when i was his age!"
Is truly numerous. If a man is afraid no one will believe his story, so you didn't report what happened, it's because you don't think the cops, authorities or maybe even friends would believe you, and the vast majority of those are men too.
Men need to be there for each other, and truly show and express that feeling is true, and support one another. Otherwise, it is just a cycle that will continue. Men's culture and how they perceive and treat each other is a very very large part of the problem men are going through.
>I disagree, while it's not the actual guy doing it to himself. It's all the men around him, and it is, in part, toxic masculinity.
Wrong. Most men really do not care that much about what other men think of them. It doesn't really impact them and, for the most part, they already see those other men as their competition and therefore take with a grain of salt whatever they think of them. How women think of men, however, does matter to most men, a lot. Because that is what ultimately affects their lives sexually, intimately and socially. How women judge a man will also have a large impact on how other men see that man as well.
>The vast majority of men who get sexually assaulted are asexually assaulted by other men
This is also wrong. Even speaking from personal experience, literally all of the sexual assaults I have experienced in my life time were from women. Getting groped in the work place, women forcing things on me I never consented, women pressuring me to do things I didn't want to, women sexually abusing me when I was younger, etc. There are all things that happened. Other men might have gotten physically violent with me before, usually for female approval/attention(which also goes back to toxic femininity), but it was never sexual. The worse a man has ever done to me is a friend randomly slapping on the ass.
But, addressing this on a broader level that isn't rooted in personal experiences, or the experiences of other friends I know whom I've discussed this with, the reality is that there are countless cases of sexual assault by women against men out there. What is also real is the fact that a great deal of sexual violence from women towards men is not taken seriously, does not get reported and does not get acted on. Virtually all of which are direct results of men not wanting to be judged by women for being weak, because women expect men to be strong to be viewed as viable men. Every woman that sexually committed a form of sexual assault against a man, thinking she wasn't doing anything wrong because "I'm a woman and he's a man, so it's fine" was acting on a form of toxic femininity.
>If you're afraid of getting laughed at for telling your sexual assault story, it's going to be by other men.
This is another very superficial take on how men generally feel. Men might not like getting made fun of by other men but, for the most part, that is not the reason why men keep these types of things to themselves at all. Men tease each other all the time, that is generally how men bond, but men also generally have a pretty good sense of boundaries when it comes to stuff like this. Men generally do not hit other men "bellow the belt" the way a lot of women do. What men actually fear is how \*women\* will react to them telling their stories. Will they be viewed as a liar, misogynist, creep, "incel" or manipulator by women for presenting a woman in a bad light or attacked by emotionally immature, reactive or misandric women? Will they be presented as a weak man for falling victim to a woman, and then lose any chance of ever being taken seriously by a woman, specific or otherwise, again?
>the number of times I've seen horrible stories of a boy who had been raped and the replies are of men going "I wish that were me when i was his age!"
Yes, because a lot of men are either speaking from a position of desperation, depravity, bravado or a scarcity mindset. Most men understand why other men say this and, even though they understand it's in bad taste or contributing to larger problem, also aren't fundamentally hurt by it the way they might be by other reactions. A lot of men are also saying this, for the record, as a way to placate to women and maintain this narrative that women cannot be victimizers or that men cannot be victim, that most women tend to believe as well(also the argument you tried to enter this discussion with). It is men acting in a way that directly results from a culture that does not value them and male heterosexuality, and that results from a culture in which women can do no wrong. These are both symptoms of toxic femininity.
>Yes, because a lot of men are either speaking from a position of desperation, depravity, bravado or a scarcity mindset.
And cause they really wanted to fuck THEIR hot teachers. 😅
I got served papers yet again to reduce visitation time with my son. I am not going back to court. I am tired of fighting for what's mine. I am going to exit stage left this Saturday.
Fuck that dude, just take a breather, treat yourself, and then come back fighting! Learn when you need to rest, take a break, or accept the humility of defeat and choosing a new battle. Because there is no shame in accepting its an entire system against you, not just a woman and her selfishness. In time, no matter what, your son will seek out your guidance and company when he is free of the shackles his mother placed on him, and when he does, YOU can be there to help him when he needs you most.
I encourage you not to. You still get to see your son and the time will be a higher quality because there will be less of it. You get to be the “fun parent”. If you check out now, you are robbing both yourself and your son of an important relationship and leave him with the inheritance of lifelong trauma and lack of positive male role model.
Also, those who commit suicide is what they are most remembered for. The first thing that comes to mind when we think of Robin Williams is not his work as a comedic actor for example.
Dude, there’s far too little info to be able to properly empathise here - how old is your son for starters…
There’s a saying that I see some relevance in here - “children don’t listen, they watch”. Whilst you may not be physically present, you can still show him who you are; the father who loves his son. If you exit stage left, you won’t be able to build for his future - no first car or college fund from dad. You also won’t be able to create something tangible to give him at key milestones.
Sure, it’s a speculation to say that all you want to do is show your son you love him and to help him grow in this world, but it’s definitely not a speculation to say your ability to do anything positive for him disappears if you’re six feet under.
You matter, in more ways and to more people than you know.
Please do not do this. Children aren't that dumb. Eventually, your child will hopefully realize who was right and did the right thing in this situation.
On a side note, I hate hate hate our fucking rigged system that drives men to these extremes just to feel an ounce of peace. If it means anything, I was in the Navy, and I think I get it. The sense of hopelessness and despair. This world is so cruel to the wrong people, and our fucked up gynocentric culture and government only make this conclusion all too easy to come to.
As someone who lost their father to suicide, please don't. I'd give anything to have my dad back. I wish he could have seen me graduate. There's songs and movies I know he would have loved that I can't show him. Books I want to tell him about. So many questions I want to ask. I'm begging you, tears in my eyes don't.
For society where personal relationships vote against men, and loneliness are a big reason for suicide. Many men give up because they cannot see a road to success, and road to success for many is becoming more difficult.
This! I have struggled so much with this. I just feel like there's too many roadblocks for this struggle to be real.
First, I need a decent career to have a chance to ever afford a home. Second, I need to find a woman who is wife material (feels nigh impossible in this country. One of my dad's friends is from Peru and he constantly asks us to come visit. Hopefully i can find someone there, but who knows). Third, I need to accept the fact that I COULD LOSE all the fruits of that difficult career just because someone decided to end their relationship with me. Marriage is so dead in this country.
I want to marry due to my religious convictions so bad, but I would never understand why a secular man would want to marry over here.
about 5 years ago, I came across a young man who had twice attempted to end his life.
the reason? - his wife coerced him to first slash his wrists- he pulled out at the last second, the second time she coerced him to hang himself, but was saved by an intervention by the police( broke his leg though), when I met him he was medicated ( and almost high), I believe he had been temporarily sectioned to treat him.
the whole reason for the coercion was because his wife didn't want to share custody with him ( or allow him vistitation) for his kids.
Before then I never truly understood it, even though I had had a family member become suicidal after being denied cancer treatment at a young age because of their disability..
I didn't understand why people were checking on me so much whilst going through an abusive religious divorce( after years of domestic violence), and being erased from my childs life( just turned 14 two days ago,and haven't seen for 13 years..) until I read up on the very high risk for men( especially fathers) when going through high conflict divorce..
so.. everytime I see this issue and the excuses that are made for it by society , pretending to not know or understand why... rather than society( and that includes the various activists campaigning for their self interest against men) should look in the mirror and ask why would you do that to men???.. to anyone ????
Constantly think about it, always kinda sad, nothing seems to help, not sex, working out or drugs. Been sad with life for a while, kind of accepting that this is my new normal. It's why I'm against having kids, don't want them to experience this feeling.
Men are problems fixer and when they see no others solutions and END their Lives, you can understand the problem is deep rooted. Since men would rather end their lives than fix an unfixable problem.
Yes but it will be some time before these issues are addressed. During covid my ex got super abusive. I reached out and said I had been thinking of suicide, I've attempted twice before. She told me to do it. We went to couples therapy and she tried to defend what she had said and did not like it when the therapist told her in very clear terms that was wrong.
That's why this won't change for a while. Women still think men have all the advantages when we have been losing them for a while now. How many women's shelters are there vs men's? Perfect example
I wonder how much society, that runs on people living more or less for work, contributes. Cause between sleep, basic maintenance (exercise, food, hygiene,...), transit to and from work and work, and god forbid you have kids, I do not see you have much time for anything else.
And men are expected to provide. More so than women, and consequences of failure are more serious for men in general.
The fact that men are expected to provide while many women now earn more money is what gets me. They specifically designed a system to fight against human nature. I feel like it will have to fail at some point, but who knows?
I think the current system has been set by clever capital owners facing a challenge.
How do you drive down price of labor? By doubling the number of working bodies.
Add to that, that the best way to indoctrinate people is by reducing time parents get to influence them, and replace it with government sanctioned education. (I am very pro education, but there is education, and there is indoctrination, and some subjects are there for the latter).
I also think there is no coincidence that feminism always conflates class struggle with struggle between sexes.
Of course, this is not be all, end all. But it certainly is a part of the problem.
Yes! I have known the first part for a bit now, but I hadn't considered that limiting time with parents enhances the ability of the government to indoctrinate them. I had made some kind of a connection with the deconstruction of the family unit, but focused more on the corporate aspect of driving wages down by getting the full adult population to work. I guess at the time, it made to sense for a family to just make more money. But now it's like "we'll what's the point" but we're still stuck with where we're at. I wish people would just realize that we were played, but it seems like we're stuck in this current situation that we have now.
Excellent post! I believe this is the one true "wedge issue" that can help male advocates communicate all of the other areas like employment, education, legal rights, family law, medical care, etc, where men are being treated like second-class citizens. Risk factors like unemployment, divorce and child estrangement, legal problems, and more, lead directly to an increase in suicide, yet nothing is being done to mitigate these root causes. In fact they're getting worse.
And kudos to you for pointing out the way men are blamed for this decades-long epidemic. It's well past time that we call out the tired old mantra of: "Men just need to talk about their *feelings* more" for the blatant and harmful medical misinformation that it is.
To do so unequivocally, I recommend publicizing at every opportunity the findings of a [2021 UK study](https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=55305). In the section about "Contact with services" for men who had committed suicide:
> 91% middle-aged men had been in contact with at least one service or agency at some time.
Most importantly, in the paper's conclusion, during the key messages section on page 30, they say the following:
> Rates of contact with services among middle-aged men were higher than expected; almost all had been in contact with a front-line service or agency at some time. It is therefore too simplistic to say that men do not seek help.
So we have an actual scientific study, done recently (it came out in 2021), using data from over 1500 male suicides, and it specifically concludes that the "men do not seek help" narrative is simplistic and incorrect, based entirely on the evidence found. Yet, frustratingly, we still continue to see this urban myth about "men suffering in silence" parroted everywhere, from individual media figures (politicians, athletes, actors, etc) to large medical institutions like the APA. I wish that the general public could experience just a tiny amount of the anger I feel whenever I see what is rightly termed "harmful medical misinformation" being propagated so widely without pushback.
I’ve lost three friends to suicide, one just a few months ago after finding himself homeless due to rent costs increasing. Average men don’t matter to society, and it’s made clear to younger and younger males. Modern men being forced to pay for the actions of generations past.
Damn, this hits hard today. In today’s society where the middle class is being erased, women value self defeating behavior and toxicity over wholesome exchanges & long term goals. Buying a home is a pipe dream. There really isn’t much reason to stick around unless you want to be overworked and under appreciated.
Do men not matter?
I'd really appreciate 10 mins of your time to complete an anonymous survey. I am conducting a study to investigate whether adverse childhood experiences (ACE,s) & domestic voilence/ intimate partner voilence makes men feel like they don't matter. With suicide being the biggest killer in men under 40, could this be a contributing factor? https://forms.gle/quJ9eBKJ1eAuU3Dz7
Please share 🙏
I decided that not giving a shit was the better option, though it’s the more difficult one, because it’s very difficult to disengage from others emotionally.
This might annoy some, but just consider it for a minute.
Until recently, religion has had a very strong influence on society. That influence is dropping off in a big way, it's almost gone over here. One of the big rules is that suicide was a mortal sin, go to hell forever.
Now that the influence is gone, people, especially men, are realising they don't have to keep on living a desperate or painful existence.
I think the shitty situation for men has always been there, just now there are less reasons to stick around.
No, suicide is a consequence. Men's issues are under appreciation and putting goal post to far from reality. We succumb to the pressure if pressed too long.
Doesn't matter what my iceberg is, I've already tried committing suicide once before, I'm just done being a doormat, I'm tired of this broken fucking system this country has left its people in.
I'm tired of being persecuted for the crimes of bad men, yet I have to shoulder the blame *because I was born male.* So I've decided to just walk away. I'm only going to think of myself, and the few people in my life that matter most.
I'm gonna be selfish and cater to hookup culture since relationships are a joke now (I know this doesn't help but I apologize to those not participating in HC, who would be affected by this) and I'm gonna enjoy my videogames, my vodka, my personal time, and peace of mind in the house I bought.
I’m weary to put this on anything like being bullied or loneliness or trauma. I think we all have that but most boys are fine and we’re fine. I think having good parents will really make a difference. I was lucky to have a great mother, but so many single moms and not all are so supportive and thinking back it must of been so rough for her mentally especially since I was a little shit. But I digress. I think one of the biggest problems for many things including this is single parents and of course mostly being mothers. We should be rewarding families to stay together rather than reward single mothers. Take away welfare. Give all married couples with kids $500 a month per kid or something like that.
Since you mentioned 'harder times', I recommend the following for these similar topics:
Robert Sapolsky's insights in "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" can be particularly revealing for men's health and societal pressures:
**Men's Suicide Rates:** Discusses how different societal expectations and economic pressures impact suicide rates, particularly among men.
**Global Perspective:** Sapolsky explores how suicide rates in men vary globally, noting that in many third-world countries, the communal living settings often provide stronger social bonds and emotional support for men, which can buffer against mental health crises. In contrast, Western societies, with their emphasis on individualism and self-reliance, might lack these tight-knit support networks, potentially leading to higher stress and increased suicide rates among men.
**Social Support:** Highlights the importance of community and social bonds in mitigating stress and reducing the risk of suicide among men.
**Modern Challenges:** Points out that in many Western societies, the perceived failure to meet 'successful' masculine standards can increase stress and mental health issues in men.
This emphasizes that the complexities of modern life and societal expectations can have a profound impact on men's mental health, underscoring the need for better support systems.
Great book, highly suggest it.
No.
I'm an extremist when it comes to men's rights. Half the things I post are banned here. But suicide? I never bother. Unlike circumcision, suicide is ultimately your choice, and only a small minority make that choice, and even if that small minority has doubled in size, it's still a small minority. It's not going to animate people. If it spurs any action at all, it will be "more mental health", which is a disaster. We already have a third of boys on Ritalin. Drugs and psychotherapists need to be eliminated, not expanded.
I take suicide to signify something about the health of society, meaning it would be a self correcting problem, kind of like AIDS. It's not some iceberg that once you hit it it's all over.
It isn’t. Whilst there isn’t a key, which would be helpful, my read is that the 100% figure was the peak number of searches relating to suicide, everything else is a measure against that peak…
For every man who kills himself... It's been a journey with multiple assaults on his wellness, and There are many men who are thinking about it. An iceberg of icebergs.
One of the worst things: You can't even talk about it to anyone because you'll get punished for it with getting hospitalized instead of addressing any of the problems which are causing it in the first place.
That’s what hospitalization is for.
"im depressed because my life is shit" "allow me to lock you in a room and force-feed you antidepressants" seems legit
And then drain your bank account and ruin your reputation.
And you lose your job and have your kids taken away with documented proof.
You're *sort of* right, yes.. That *is* what they're there for.. The thing is just that this hospitalization *should* be a *last resort*. And while you could very well argue that this is exactly what it is used for at this time. The problem is that in 99.9% of the cases should never have come to this point in the first place. Most of the suicidal men can be helped if only they have someone that they feel that *truly* cares. It really doesn't have to be *that* much, just someone that *genuinely* takes an interest in them as a person. *If* you're being hospitalized, it should be to benefit *you* the person being hospitalized. It shouldn't be a drain on you and your future, it should be there when there's really nothing else and you're about to hurt yourself. So TLDR: Yes it is a good thing that hospitalization is an option, but most of the time this "help" comes too late and hospitalization could have been avoided if someone just cared enough.
Beneath the surface of male suicide lies a murky world of icy darkness, and the shards of hidden trauma. Like an iceberg – we limit men’s issues to what we can see, that icy white cap, and never look for what lies below. Because beneath the calm, demure surface, often hides stories of the abused men, or bullied boys, tales of trauma, or neglect, and sexual violence; the life of the addicted, the lonely, or those fighting a losing battle for child custody… Stories we ignore and wave away as not possible, or as insignificant, or arrogantly berate as *‘hijacking the conversation’.* And so the secret epidemic, unnoticed, drifts closer and closer still, until it crashes into the side of our boat, making real what we chose to ignore, to devastating consequences. We care then. When the sun loungers and beach towels of society are disturbed, and the water rushes in, we scrabble around in a panic… We treat the issue *too late.* The cause of a man’s suicide has taken its toll, and any chance to prevent or change course, to sail for safer waters, has long since gone. Because suicide is not a distinct issue, but the end destination of various other problems when the volume is turned up to ten, and all hope has gone. It is, a *‘rational and solution based decision’,* as is coldly described by the latest research. It is not something to be pathologised and medicated as *‘abnormal’*, seen primarily as a *‘mental health problem’,* or part of a *‘toxic’* male mindset that needs to be talked away. And such perspectives have clearly failed us. Failed because research often finds that suicidal men don’t consider their problem as being a *‘mental health problem’,* as they are left to grapple with what lays beneath the surface. And I know… It’s easier to acknowledge only what we can see, to throw the burden of responsibility back upon men. But as with icebergs; we need to peer deeper, and further into the distance, to understand, before it’s too late. So how far can you see, and how deep dare you look? What do you think? \~ [\[1\]](https://tinyurl.com/4v7989sz) [\[2\]](https://tinyurl.com/v5jh38yw) [\[3\]](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31638469/) [\[4\]](https://equi-law.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/APPG-MB-Male-Suicide-Report-9-22.pdf) Images by Kamran abdullayev, Alexandros Giannakakis, Annie Spratts, Hans Isaacs, Kristaps Ungurs, Paul-Campbell.
One of the most heinous feminist talking points is the idea that men commit suicide more often because supposedly they are conditioned to be selfish and pursue a goal (the goal in this question being suicide) at all costs. Hence by that logic men would be inclined to use severe methods for death such as hanging or a firearm.
That’s true and may have been co-opted by feminists but men use more lethal means in their suicide attempts like firearms and jumping off bridges. Women are more likely to attempt in overdose and that usually fails.
there’s an actual reason for that but if i say it i’ll be burned at the stake, so i’ll just say vaguely: if someone really wants to kill themself, why wouldn’t they use a method with a 99% success rate as opposed to a method with a 50% success rate?
It is either deception or incompetence, those are the only explanations for failure.
I only see it getting some traction in the 2030's. This is the framework being established at this moment for male mental health.
nobody will ever give a shit about mens mental health. If there is ever a system to address it it will be entirely about getting men back into work.
I fear this. I have an idea that male suicide and more men refusing to work will just be viewed as economic problems. Any "solution" will most likely do nothing even remotely helpful. Who knows where this will lead? I feel that our culture may eventually rebound and normalize, but who knows when/even if that will happen? How is this all going to end up in the long term?
They'll institute a bachelor's tax. Yeah, the reason I'm not married is cuz I'm fartin' around and sewin' my oats.
You're clearly more optimistic than i am, i see it getting traction in the year 3000 maybe.
When men want to kill themselves it's for a REASON. We talk about depression and anxiety and all this other stuff, but these guys just want their suffering to end and they see no way to fix it any more. Instead of fixing the problem, doctors put you on drugs that just make you numb and not care about fixing the problem any more then take away your means. In other words, their goal is to simply make you OK with your suffering rather than actually alleviate it and help you fix your problems.
It can also be considered an iceberg in the sense that we don't know the actual frequency of male suicide. We know, for example, that many suicides get reported as accidents, but the case can also be made that men also frequently engage in behavior that they fully expect to kill them, which can be considered a form of suicide in itself.
The unfortunate news is, for as long as the problem doesn't affect greater society to the severity level required for them to pay attention & make the changes needed to even out the male-to-female self-deletion ratio (or better yet bring the ratio down to 0/0), the problem will continue to gradually worsen (by that, I mean the discrepancy in the ratio of male-to-female self-deletions) until greater society is impacted to the point where changing is the ONLY choice.
> doesn't affect greater society So..... women. Until it affects women.
Not necessarily what I'm saying. The fact that people are self-deleting on both sides at the rates they are is an indicator that there are multiple systemic issues at play that are causing the increase in the rates on both sides. By creating & implementing centric solutions, we can create a fairer society where when both parties express their issues, their issues are taken **equally** seriously, there's **equal** accountability on both sides, a **direct positive** correlation at all times between actions & consequences in nature & magnitude on both sides. That I believe is paramount to bringing the rates of self-deletions on both sides as close to 0:0 as possible.
Any idea how this will affect women? I don't see how this phenomenon will ever affect women, tbh. Maybe if enough women have men in their families who commit suicide, but even then, that's the only way I possibly see this as becoming a "societal" issue. I feel it's more likely that a lack of worker-drones will cause people to try to force more work on men, but I don't even really see that leading to a response to the male suicide epidemic.
I was mostly just pointing out a jaded answer of society doesn't do anything reactionary when it only affects men. If women are even slightly inconvenienced, then society bows down and fixes it. But, to directly answer your question, men pay in the most taxes, alimony, and child support by far. So women are affected. Men most dead, women most affected.
Neglect neglect neglect. Our culture is reactive and not proactive. I wonder if the “react” will ever even happen. I’ve talked with many women, and what I’ve noticed is if the issue doesn’t directly affect them or serve them, they don’t give a flying fuck. Women are monumentally selfish. Many of the women in PurplePillDebate sub that I argue with always reach a conclusion of “why should I care” or “I don’t care if your right” or “I don’t care what men think” or “I couldn’t give a shit about men’s issues “. They don’t even have arguments because they don’t care about truth. Like seriously they don’t care about consequences or of how small things affect society at large. They simply don’t care. They will lie and lie and lie until they die.
As long as enough men simp, they have no incentive to change.
They won't change either. If we base most social interactions on an exchange, The only possible case would be, precisely, to enslave women, which is morally questionable.
Not enslave, control. They don't want to see anything that smacks of control, or shame, or accountability, because decades of propaganda have told them that is bad, full stop. But yes, women are hold to totally different standards from men due to sexual, psychological and social complex dynamics.
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Thanks for highlighting this important issue. I knew this was a serious problem, but did not realise how much until I saw the breakdown in this link (see the section titled *'Countries and territories by suicide rate'*): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate In the majority of cases, the male suicide rate is far more than that of women. The conspiracy theorist in me almost wonders if there's a global sinister plot underway to cull the population of men; by making policies & laws so gynocentrically hopeless for men that they are driven to kill themselves.
Wow! The correlation with feminist countries is quite alarming.
What the heck is going on in Lesotho to where they are the highest rated and beat the second/third highest by over double the rate?
Poverty. It’s going to get like that here with the way inequality is going, my good friend ended his life recently only for what I assume is socioeconomic reasons.
I agree with your comment after all one of the aims of feminism is to destroy the family by convincing many people to believe the patriarchy (rule of the father) is an evil system of oppression.
I love that last paragraph. I'm all for conspiracy theories. I've already seen others theorize that women have been given so much disproportionate power because they are easier to control and are more consumerist.
We aren’t smart enough as a species for many conspiracies to hold any value. I always have to keep that in mind. We sleep walk into tragedy even when the smartest of us are predicting it.
This is naive. The 'smartest' may be the ones not listening to criticism as they benefit from walking face first into ruin.
Nope. I see most conspiracy theories as having the ultimate motive of manipulating people.
Then every business that engages in any marketing is a conspiracy. Every political campaign that relies on emotional rhetoric. Every white lie we tell children to motivate better behavior too. It seems like an inadequate definition to me.
Those are some extreme conclusions you’ve made there.
The only conclusion (singular) I made was the last sentence, that your definition is inadequate. The rest of my sentences were examples of what would be true if your definition were adequate. I'm glad you agree they are incoherent.
Okay. I hope you’re doing well.
Of course it. Props to Tin Man.
This will always be neglected and never pointed out, even if some "equal rights" organisations DO point it out, it would be solely to prove those statistics "fake" and will pull the new one from their ass.
This was depressing to read but it needed to be shared as the suicide rate for men is always brushed aside.
More men suffer, in silence, due to toxic femininity than they have ever suffered from toxic masculinity. The idea that men just kill themselves because they are toxic to themselves is a projection predominantly pushed by misandric women, it is toxic femininity.
“you guys just kys because of toxic masculinity” = all the problems are caused exclusively by yourselves. In others words: always blaming the victim, isn’t that what they love to say all the time?
I disagree, while it's not the actual guy doing it to himself. It's all the men around him, and it is, in part, toxic masculinity. The vast majority of men who get sexually assaulted are asexually assaulted by other men. Men who get domestically abused are by the vast majority getting domestically abused by other men. If you got laid off of work that caused you financial trouble, your manager, the vast majority of the time, is going to be a man. If you're afraid of getting laughed at for telling your sexual assault story, it's going to be by other men. This one is anecdotal, but the number of times I've seen horrible stories of a boy who had been raped and the replies are of men going. "I wish that were me when i was his age!" Is truly numerous. If a man is afraid no one will believe his story, so you didn't report what happened, it's because you don't think the cops, authorities or maybe even friends would believe you, and the vast majority of those are men too. Men need to be there for each other, and truly show and express that feeling is true, and support one another. Otherwise, it is just a cycle that will continue. Men's culture and how they perceive and treat each other is a very very large part of the problem men are going through.
>I disagree, while it's not the actual guy doing it to himself. It's all the men around him, and it is, in part, toxic masculinity. Wrong. Most men really do not care that much about what other men think of them. It doesn't really impact them and, for the most part, they already see those other men as their competition and therefore take with a grain of salt whatever they think of them. How women think of men, however, does matter to most men, a lot. Because that is what ultimately affects their lives sexually, intimately and socially. How women judge a man will also have a large impact on how other men see that man as well. >The vast majority of men who get sexually assaulted are asexually assaulted by other men This is also wrong. Even speaking from personal experience, literally all of the sexual assaults I have experienced in my life time were from women. Getting groped in the work place, women forcing things on me I never consented, women pressuring me to do things I didn't want to, women sexually abusing me when I was younger, etc. There are all things that happened. Other men might have gotten physically violent with me before, usually for female approval/attention(which also goes back to toxic femininity), but it was never sexual. The worse a man has ever done to me is a friend randomly slapping on the ass. But, addressing this on a broader level that isn't rooted in personal experiences, or the experiences of other friends I know whom I've discussed this with, the reality is that there are countless cases of sexual assault by women against men out there. What is also real is the fact that a great deal of sexual violence from women towards men is not taken seriously, does not get reported and does not get acted on. Virtually all of which are direct results of men not wanting to be judged by women for being weak, because women expect men to be strong to be viewed as viable men. Every woman that sexually committed a form of sexual assault against a man, thinking she wasn't doing anything wrong because "I'm a woman and he's a man, so it's fine" was acting on a form of toxic femininity. >If you're afraid of getting laughed at for telling your sexual assault story, it's going to be by other men. This is another very superficial take on how men generally feel. Men might not like getting made fun of by other men but, for the most part, that is not the reason why men keep these types of things to themselves at all. Men tease each other all the time, that is generally how men bond, but men also generally have a pretty good sense of boundaries when it comes to stuff like this. Men generally do not hit other men "bellow the belt" the way a lot of women do. What men actually fear is how \*women\* will react to them telling their stories. Will they be viewed as a liar, misogynist, creep, "incel" or manipulator by women for presenting a woman in a bad light or attacked by emotionally immature, reactive or misandric women? Will they be presented as a weak man for falling victim to a woman, and then lose any chance of ever being taken seriously by a woman, specific or otherwise, again? >the number of times I've seen horrible stories of a boy who had been raped and the replies are of men going "I wish that were me when i was his age!" Yes, because a lot of men are either speaking from a position of desperation, depravity, bravado or a scarcity mindset. Most men understand why other men say this and, even though they understand it's in bad taste or contributing to larger problem, also aren't fundamentally hurt by it the way they might be by other reactions. A lot of men are also saying this, for the record, as a way to placate to women and maintain this narrative that women cannot be victimizers or that men cannot be victim, that most women tend to believe as well(also the argument you tried to enter this discussion with). It is men acting in a way that directly results from a culture that does not value them and male heterosexuality, and that results from a culture in which women can do no wrong. These are both symptoms of toxic femininity.
>Yes, because a lot of men are either speaking from a position of desperation, depravity, bravado or a scarcity mindset. And cause they really wanted to fuck THEIR hot teachers. 😅
I got served papers yet again to reduce visitation time with my son. I am not going back to court. I am tired of fighting for what's mine. I am going to exit stage left this Saturday.
Brother. You matter. You matter, despite the stressors and the world saying otherwise. You matter to your son.
Fuck that dude, just take a breather, treat yourself, and then come back fighting! Learn when you need to rest, take a break, or accept the humility of defeat and choosing a new battle. Because there is no shame in accepting its an entire system against you, not just a woman and her selfishness. In time, no matter what, your son will seek out your guidance and company when he is free of the shackles his mother placed on him, and when he does, YOU can be there to help him when he needs you most.
Please don’t brother, your son will need you later in life. I understand the desperation, you matter.
Gtfo. You are staying here for your boys. Fight her like hell. Take out all your frustration on her!
I encourage you not to. You still get to see your son and the time will be a higher quality because there will be less of it. You get to be the “fun parent”. If you check out now, you are robbing both yourself and your son of an important relationship and leave him with the inheritance of lifelong trauma and lack of positive male role model. Also, those who commit suicide is what they are most remembered for. The first thing that comes to mind when we think of Robin Williams is not his work as a comedic actor for example.
Dude, there’s far too little info to be able to properly empathise here - how old is your son for starters… There’s a saying that I see some relevance in here - “children don’t listen, they watch”. Whilst you may not be physically present, you can still show him who you are; the father who loves his son. If you exit stage left, you won’t be able to build for his future - no first car or college fund from dad. You also won’t be able to create something tangible to give him at key milestones. Sure, it’s a speculation to say that all you want to do is show your son you love him and to help him grow in this world, but it’s definitely not a speculation to say your ability to do anything positive for him disappears if you’re six feet under. You matter, in more ways and to more people than you know.
Please do not do this. Children aren't that dumb. Eventually, your child will hopefully realize who was right and did the right thing in this situation. On a side note, I hate hate hate our fucking rigged system that drives men to these extremes just to feel an ounce of peace. If it means anything, I was in the Navy, and I think I get it. The sense of hopelessness and despair. This world is so cruel to the wrong people, and our fucked up gynocentric culture and government only make this conclusion all too easy to come to.
As someone who lost their father to suicide, please don't. I'd give anything to have my dad back. I wish he could have seen me graduate. There's songs and movies I know he would have loved that I can't show him. Books I want to tell him about. So many questions I want to ask. I'm begging you, tears in my eyes don't.
For society where personal relationships vote against men, and loneliness are a big reason for suicide. Many men give up because they cannot see a road to success, and road to success for many is becoming more difficult.
This! I have struggled so much with this. I just feel like there's too many roadblocks for this struggle to be real. First, I need a decent career to have a chance to ever afford a home. Second, I need to find a woman who is wife material (feels nigh impossible in this country. One of my dad's friends is from Peru and he constantly asks us to come visit. Hopefully i can find someone there, but who knows). Third, I need to accept the fact that I COULD LOSE all the fruits of that difficult career just because someone decided to end their relationship with me. Marriage is so dead in this country. I want to marry due to my religious convictions so bad, but I would never understand why a secular man would want to marry over here.
about 5 years ago, I came across a young man who had twice attempted to end his life. the reason? - his wife coerced him to first slash his wrists- he pulled out at the last second, the second time she coerced him to hang himself, but was saved by an intervention by the police( broke his leg though), when I met him he was medicated ( and almost high), I believe he had been temporarily sectioned to treat him. the whole reason for the coercion was because his wife didn't want to share custody with him ( or allow him vistitation) for his kids. Before then I never truly understood it, even though I had had a family member become suicidal after being denied cancer treatment at a young age because of their disability.. I didn't understand why people were checking on me so much whilst going through an abusive religious divorce( after years of domestic violence), and being erased from my childs life( just turned 14 two days ago,and haven't seen for 13 years..) until I read up on the very high risk for men( especially fathers) when going through high conflict divorce.. so.. everytime I see this issue and the excuses that are made for it by society , pretending to not know or understand why... rather than society( and that includes the various activists campaigning for their self interest against men) should look in the mirror and ask why would you do that to men???.. to anyone ????
Constantly think about it, always kinda sad, nothing seems to help, not sex, working out or drugs. Been sad with life for a while, kind of accepting that this is my new normal. It's why I'm against having kids, don't want them to experience this feeling.
Men are problems fixer and when they see no others solutions and END their Lives, you can understand the problem is deep rooted. Since men would rather end their lives than fix an unfixable problem.
Yes but it will be some time before these issues are addressed. During covid my ex got super abusive. I reached out and said I had been thinking of suicide, I've attempted twice before. She told me to do it. We went to couples therapy and she tried to defend what she had said and did not like it when the therapist told her in very clear terms that was wrong. That's why this won't change for a while. Women still think men have all the advantages when we have been losing them for a while now. How many women's shelters are there vs men's? Perfect example
I wonder how much society, that runs on people living more or less for work, contributes. Cause between sleep, basic maintenance (exercise, food, hygiene,...), transit to and from work and work, and god forbid you have kids, I do not see you have much time for anything else. And men are expected to provide. More so than women, and consequences of failure are more serious for men in general.
The fact that men are expected to provide while many women now earn more money is what gets me. They specifically designed a system to fight against human nature. I feel like it will have to fail at some point, but who knows?
I think the current system has been set by clever capital owners facing a challenge. How do you drive down price of labor? By doubling the number of working bodies. Add to that, that the best way to indoctrinate people is by reducing time parents get to influence them, and replace it with government sanctioned education. (I am very pro education, but there is education, and there is indoctrination, and some subjects are there for the latter). I also think there is no coincidence that feminism always conflates class struggle with struggle between sexes. Of course, this is not be all, end all. But it certainly is a part of the problem.
Yes! I have known the first part for a bit now, but I hadn't considered that limiting time with parents enhances the ability of the government to indoctrinate them. I had made some kind of a connection with the deconstruction of the family unit, but focused more on the corporate aspect of driving wages down by getting the full adult population to work. I guess at the time, it made to sense for a family to just make more money. But now it's like "we'll what's the point" but we're still stuck with where we're at. I wish people would just realize that we were played, but it seems like we're stuck in this current situation that we have now.
TIL I'm 143% more likely to kill myself. The more ya know.
Excellent post! I believe this is the one true "wedge issue" that can help male advocates communicate all of the other areas like employment, education, legal rights, family law, medical care, etc, where men are being treated like second-class citizens. Risk factors like unemployment, divorce and child estrangement, legal problems, and more, lead directly to an increase in suicide, yet nothing is being done to mitigate these root causes. In fact they're getting worse. And kudos to you for pointing out the way men are blamed for this decades-long epidemic. It's well past time that we call out the tired old mantra of: "Men just need to talk about their *feelings* more" for the blatant and harmful medical misinformation that it is. To do so unequivocally, I recommend publicizing at every opportunity the findings of a [2021 UK study](https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=55305). In the section about "Contact with services" for men who had committed suicide: > 91% middle-aged men had been in contact with at least one service or agency at some time. Most importantly, in the paper's conclusion, during the key messages section on page 30, they say the following: > Rates of contact with services among middle-aged men were higher than expected; almost all had been in contact with a front-line service or agency at some time. It is therefore too simplistic to say that men do not seek help. So we have an actual scientific study, done recently (it came out in 2021), using data from over 1500 male suicides, and it specifically concludes that the "men do not seek help" narrative is simplistic and incorrect, based entirely on the evidence found. Yet, frustratingly, we still continue to see this urban myth about "men suffering in silence" parroted everywhere, from individual media figures (politicians, athletes, actors, etc) to large medical institutions like the APA. I wish that the general public could experience just a tiny amount of the anger I feel whenever I see what is rightly termed "harmful medical misinformation" being propagated so widely without pushback.
I’ve lost three friends to suicide, one just a few months ago after finding himself homeless due to rent costs increasing. Average men don’t matter to society, and it’s made clear to younger and younger males. Modern men being forced to pay for the actions of generations past.
how unattainable things are getting I can see why, im frustrated from all of it too idk what to do.
A man's height also plays a big factor in his suicide rate
Does it? It’s always stupid to commit suicide but this is the stupidest reason to commit suicide.
How so?
Because height doesn’t matter
🤦♂️
mentall illness is one the rise in both genders, its just that more men have the balls to go trough with their suicidal ideations
Damn, this hits hard today. In today’s society where the middle class is being erased, women value self defeating behavior and toxicity over wholesome exchanges & long term goals. Buying a home is a pipe dream. There really isn’t much reason to stick around unless you want to be overworked and under appreciated.
Do men not matter? I'd really appreciate 10 mins of your time to complete an anonymous survey. I am conducting a study to investigate whether adverse childhood experiences (ACE,s) & domestic voilence/ intimate partner voilence makes men feel like they don't matter. With suicide being the biggest killer in men under 40, could this be a contributing factor? https://forms.gle/quJ9eBKJ1eAuU3Dz7 Please share 🙏
I completed your survey. I'm interested to know more about your findings. God bless you for being willing yo listen, even anonymously.
No, just the tip of it.
Damn dude, every one of these is a fucking masterpiece!
I decided that not giving a shit was the better option, though it’s the more difficult one, because it’s very difficult to disengage from others emotionally.
If they offer help at work, it feels like you're about to pull the fire alarm on the building without cause and all of a sudden it hits the fan.
This might annoy some, but just consider it for a minute. Until recently, religion has had a very strong influence on society. That influence is dropping off in a big way, it's almost gone over here. One of the big rules is that suicide was a mortal sin, go to hell forever. Now that the influence is gone, people, especially men, are realising they don't have to keep on living a desperate or painful existence. I think the shitty situation for men has always been there, just now there are less reasons to stick around.
No, suicide is a consequence. Men's issues are under appreciation and putting goal post to far from reality. We succumb to the pressure if pressed too long.
Great job 👏
Doesn't matter what my iceberg is, I've already tried committing suicide once before, I'm just done being a doormat, I'm tired of this broken fucking system this country has left its people in. I'm tired of being persecuted for the crimes of bad men, yet I have to shoulder the blame *because I was born male.* So I've decided to just walk away. I'm only going to think of myself, and the few people in my life that matter most. I'm gonna be selfish and cater to hookup culture since relationships are a joke now (I know this doesn't help but I apologize to those not participating in HC, who would be affected by this) and I'm gonna enjoy my videogames, my vodka, my personal time, and peace of mind in the house I bought.
We kill ourselves because we've become useless.
I’m weary to put this on anything like being bullied or loneliness or trauma. I think we all have that but most boys are fine and we’re fine. I think having good parents will really make a difference. I was lucky to have a great mother, but so many single moms and not all are so supportive and thinking back it must of been so rough for her mentally especially since I was a little shit. But I digress. I think one of the biggest problems for many things including this is single parents and of course mostly being mothers. We should be rewarding families to stay together rather than reward single mothers. Take away welfare. Give all married couples with kids $500 a month per kid or something like that.
Slide 7 needs to be shared across every facet of media
Stay strong everyone. Life can be worth living.
Probably, sadly. It hurts, it really hurts my heart. We should be doing something about this
It’s always a joke until it happens. Unless your a man, in which case it’s still a joke. Edit: probably should put a /s here just in case
Was the suicide rate higher or lower for men, a few generations ago, when life was MUCH MUCH harder?
Since you mentioned 'harder times', I recommend the following for these similar topics: Robert Sapolsky's insights in "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" can be particularly revealing for men's health and societal pressures: **Men's Suicide Rates:** Discusses how different societal expectations and economic pressures impact suicide rates, particularly among men. **Global Perspective:** Sapolsky explores how suicide rates in men vary globally, noting that in many third-world countries, the communal living settings often provide stronger social bonds and emotional support for men, which can buffer against mental health crises. In contrast, Western societies, with their emphasis on individualism and self-reliance, might lack these tight-knit support networks, potentially leading to higher stress and increased suicide rates among men. **Social Support:** Highlights the importance of community and social bonds in mitigating stress and reducing the risk of suicide among men. **Modern Challenges:** Points out that in many Western societies, the perceived failure to meet 'successful' masculine standards can increase stress and mental health issues in men. This emphasizes that the complexities of modern life and societal expectations can have a profound impact on men's mental health, underscoring the need for better support systems. Great book, highly suggest it.
thanks for the detailed response
Are suicidal men actually heroes looking for a war to throw their life into danger for others without caring?
What does men being heroes have to do with this? I’m not understanding.
No. I'm an extremist when it comes to men's rights. Half the things I post are banned here. But suicide? I never bother. Unlike circumcision, suicide is ultimately your choice, and only a small minority make that choice, and even if that small minority has doubled in size, it's still a small minority. It's not going to animate people. If it spurs any action at all, it will be "more mental health", which is a disaster. We already have a third of boys on Ritalin. Drugs and psychotherapists need to be eliminated, not expanded. I take suicide to signify something about the health of society, meaning it would be a self correcting problem, kind of like AIDS. It's not some iceberg that once you hit it it's all over.
Great post as usual, but I’m bugged by the graphic on page 2. How can google search be 100% about male suicide for a whole year?
It isn’t. Whilst there isn’t a key, which would be helpful, my read is that the 100% figure was the peak number of searches relating to suicide, everything else is a measure against that peak…