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Most vikings didn't even rape and pillage anyway. The view of all norsemen as being pirates is mostly from the sensationalized propaganda of Christian writers who were committed to depicting them as savage and evil because they were broadly pagan, and from them conflating military actions (like the Great Heathen Army or first viking siege of Paris) with regular piracy or raiding. That isn't to say there was no overlap or they were completely innocent or something, but the fact remains that the vast majority of "vikings" never even were *vĆkingar*, there was just as much if not more trading going on between the norsemen and European countries than raiding.
I love all the other bands you listed to death, but come on, with fucking Hellhammer on drums and riffs such as Life eternal, funeral fog, from the dark past, and the title track you can't say it's miles worse than all the others. Euroman was a rancid prick, but he knew how to make a fucking black metal riff. And Hellhammer is a fucking astonishing drummer. I'm talking about DMDS, but the other stuff like Chimera, Ordo ad Chao an Estoic Warfare is pretty good. Attilla is a questionable vocalist tho
Euroman knew how to riff in black metal, but does he stand out next to Fenriz, Satyr, Ihsahn and the others? I don't think so.
I'll give you Hellhammer, he is a fucking beast and in a league of his own in that early scene.
Vrag also did some amazing bass work on that album.
Thing is, for me at least, Attila ruins that album. I can't stand his vocals on it. I understand and respect him for not wanting to mimic Dead, but the direction he went in... yuck. The second he does the "fuuuuuuuuneral FOHHHHHHHHG" part, I skip. I just can't stand it. Same with Dark Past and title track. Life Eternal however is absolutely insane. I will admit that it one of the best early 2nd wave songs and Attila isn't that horrible on it.
Deathcrush is Mayhems best release and I'll die on that hill. Everything that has come after, one of the others did much better.
But, if you like it, cool for you. I won't piss on your parade, my man :)
^This.
They gained notoriety for the drama and stunts. The only musical aspect that boosted them was the fact they were early in a new wave. If they started 10 hell even 5 years later without the stunts theyād be a niche band contained to Norwegian fans.
Donāt feel like debating right now so I wonāt name any names but this āthey only made it big because they were at the right place at the right timeā applies to a fuckton of bands/artists across a fuckton of genres
Sepultura deserves more credit in the development of death and black metal especially since they did it at such a young age. Igor was 15 and the oldest member Jairo Guedes had just turned 17 when Bestial Devastation was released just a month after Seven Churches. There are videos of them in 1985 performing in corpse paint and over the top black metal attire. Max and Chuck Schuldiner were pen pals and Max sent Chuck a copy of Bestial. Several photos show him in his early years wearing a Bestial Devastation shirt
They're kind of weird looking back.Ā They were black metal when it was super niche Venom and Bathory era stuff.Ā They were death metal from it's early stages.Ā Then they became more thrash when extreme metal moved into almost exclusively black and death.
Then to fuck with everyone, they made a nu metal album.
Awesome!
Enjoy
And many will sayāRoots suckā but just enjoy what you like and skip what you donāt
Donāt allow anyone make you act like sheep, people!
Yes, and also one of the best current metal bands. Like, it's death metal that a lot of people who don't enjoy most death metal enjoys, sure? That is in no way a negative. In no way does that detract from any artistry or quality. It's just a vague description of where they lie stylistically.
Just because something is old, does not mean it is āclassic.ā A lot of old albums are honestly kinda awful. Bad songwriting, bad engineering/mix, or other elements just come together to make something truly mediocre at best.
[here you go,](https://open.spotify.com/album/1uyFW7daSqB3cTHzJcsSYN?si=2A_pNmjbQv-dslVRmNqSCA)
i donāt say no one can like it btw, but this should fit the definition of the guy above
Whatās funny is that Iām listening to a bit of this album, and itās not even that bad. I like the fact that the bass doesnāt just disappear in the mix.
Venom is not a Black Metal band. I donāt care what the lyrics are about, I donāt care what the album is called, Venom is highly influential but is *not* Black Metal.
The first Black Metal band is Bathory.
But surely only for a few albums right? And which ones? Their debut sounds like a Venom record with a goblin on vocals.
I'd say Bathory are the closest first wave got to second wave, especially on Under the Sign. But there's still alot of thrash/speed metal in their sound. Then they moved away from it completely with Hammerheart.
I have a line I drop when I'm nerd jousting about music with friends: if a band influenced a genre that band isn't in that genre. Ramones weren't punk, they hated the term. They played rock and roll. Venom was just regular degular heavy metal with a flair for theatrics.
Nazi/supremacist/antisocial/dangerous/etc people can still make good music. Doesn't mean you agree with any of their views. (edit: but if they're a genuine dick of a person then it's a free pass on pirating their discography in my books)
True. There's good and bad music anywhere. Some horrible people are actualy very talented artists. If you are a "separate the art from the artist" person, then you can profit a lot from this listening experience.
Bad production is never good (as in the shitty "raw black metal sound" a la early Darkthrone and Bathory). It's tolerable but every album with shitty production would sound better with better production.
I mean, that's why it's a hot take. Don't get me wrong I love Darkthrone and Bathory. But I merely tolerate their production; I don't think it benefits the music. And that's not to say I expect everything to have super polished production. I just think a lot of those early black metal albums would sound significantly better with even just a slight touch-up. To each their own though.
While I do agree that "raw sound" shouldnāt cover up bad production, I will argue that early Darkthrone and Bathory have perfect production but with lower-quality sound due to the fact that they probably couldnāt get higher quality equipment.
"Bad" production can add a lot to the music imo, especially to the atmosphere. And in the case of darkthrone and bathory it's actually not even that bad, and it works pretty well. It's not overdone, and I've learned to prefer some of my black metal with bad production. Good production is good, but I'm more of an atmosphere guy. I'll admit, it was an acquired taste for me as well. Another example of bad production that works really well is burzum, especially with filosofem. Can't imagine that one having good production. It would take away a lot from the album. Now, would a lot of black metal albums be better with actually good production? Probably. But I wouldn't change it.
I think a lot of artists are immortalized when they die much younger than expected. Their career never had the chance to stagnate or taper off. Take James Dean for example, he was in like 3 movies where his character had a name. He did a pretty good job, but when he died tragically young he became an icon.
yeah exactly, it's like they were writing a good album and then the drummer said "what if I made St. Anger the only thing people can hear" and for some reason no one pushed back on it
Sepultura got better when Max quit
Overkill have made a lot of good albums, but haven't produced a great album in a very long time.
Suffocation - highly influential, bloody boring
Black metal is as big a pose as glam metal
Iron Maiden, Metallica, and Megadeth should stop recording new studio albums and stick to live albums. Judas Priest should keep going though.
Alot of metal albums are more highly regarded because of their influence/legacy than how good the album is. Case in point - Bathory and Deaths debuts. Debuts are good but both bands went on to make much better records. If you take away their influence on forming black and death metal respectively, they wouldn't be as regarded.
Tbh scream bloody gore is not that great, leprosy is miles better. SBG is mostly the same thrash beat and simmilar tremolo riffs, but it did have a big influence
A few things:
stop calling a band "progressive & creating new styles of music" just because they throw cleans, harmonies, or some different style/instrument into the music. It's lazy to say "this band shatters expectations" when a simple search reveals it's been done before -and- done better.
Stop basing the number of albums sold as what makes an amazing & talented band; a million idiots would happily buy slop if they're pandered to. That doesn't make the album good. "But they sold a million records!" And? I know bands like Schammasch that people have slept on for over 10 years that make records that shiver your soul, & yet they aren't conquering record sales.
If a band doesn't truly believe in what they write, then they are hypocrites pandering for your money. If they bedecked their stageshow with images of Baphomet/Satanic imagery, but then run from accusations of Satanism, they're just trying to look hard & spooky & are edgelords; ie Slipknot (Joey & Shawn both said the images were only used for "theatrical purposes" back during "Iowa" tour, & denied Satanism).
Lastly (there's more, but I'll stop here), black metal bands of today, JUST because that super raw sound was iconic for black metal back in the early 90s, doesn't mean you should be chasing that fart in 2024. Do your own god damned thing & make your own sound in the genre.
Thereās a dude here that whenever I shit on his pretty lame taste (thinking godsmack is top tier) he cites how many albums theyāve sold as if that makes them good
He also truly thinks Tommy Lee is a better drummer than bonzo cuz more people know who he is
Itās infuriating
>Metal has officially entered its āSoundCloud Rap eraā : Iām talking about bands like Sleep Token and Spiritbox
stop listening to shitty music made for mainstream listeners, the underground metal scene is arguably stronger than it's ever been
My hot take is that Blasphemy is the Mayhem of war metal. Highly influential for the subgenre, but they themselves are largely mediocre.
None So Vile while influential is a pretty boring album with some good moments here and there (Slit your Guts or Phobophile)
Slam as whole is a very boring genre lacking substance/creativity and hasnāt been able to progress in years because the formula wonāt allow it to. (Some good slam would be digested flesh or cerebral hemorrhage)
Pantera fucking sucks I canāt believe people actually like this shit. Itās all tough guy riffs/lyrics with over the top solos.
Black Metal is 100% the genre with the widest range of variety and creativity, bringing bands like Sigh, Xasthur, Branikald, Root, Nokturnal Mortum, Nuclearhammer or Peste Noire.
We havenāt had a truly good death metal album in like 5 years (except for Inanna and The Chasm yāall keep up the good work). The genre needs to evolve itās pretty bland rn (Maggot Stomp and itās consequences)
Russia had the best Black Metal circle (BBH and co)
Immolation, Morbid Angel, Autopsy and Incantation are the only US OSDM bands that actually matter.
Ok, you asked so I'm going for it...
1. Much of the best extreme metal is heavily indebted to post-punk. Celtic Frost came up with their sound by combining the speed metal of Motƶrhead with post-punky bands like Bauhaus, Christian Death, and Joy Division, and that influence is only more apparent in Triptykon. In Scandinavia there was a little bit of a rivalry between the often right wing black metallers and the left wing crust punks, but the black metal kids were listening to a lot more crust than they may have wanted to let on. That collection of bands of Napalm Death, Carcass, and Godflesh were all rooted in the anarcho-punk scene. The key death-doom bands like Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride, etc. were from the same areas as gothy post-punk bands like the Sisters of Mercy, and were openly influenced by that music.
2. The metal scene needs to condemn racist bands, AND it needs to stop whining about edgy artists who aren't bigoted. Fuck Peste Noire, Arghoslent, Absurd, and every other fascist band. At the same time, I don't give a shit about some edgy thing Nergal said. The scene is in this awkward state of limbo where some fascist bands are being normalized, while some people aggressively try to tear down bands because somebody was friends with the wrong guy or they said something tone deaf in an interview 30 years ago. There are some bands where the grey area is inevitable - Dissection was a great band, Jon committed a heinous murder but later apologized for it and even killed himself probably in part because of it, and now apparently that band is run by fascist creeps. But it was Jon's band and he didn't believe in fascist shit, so I still like them. Obviously the people normalizing racist bands and the people trying to cancel normal ones are usually different groups of people, but it'd be nice if sane people made a clear attempt to reject racist bands, while also shutting down people trying to cancel bands for stupid shit.
3. Crust Punk is basically an extreme metal genre.
4. Testament are as good or better than the big 4.
5. Uriah Heep waa probably just as influential on power metal as Rainbow or anyone else.
6. "Metalcore" should really be divided more clearly between the more underground sound of bands like Converge, High Tension, Rolo Tomassi, Zao, Botch, Deadguy, Jesus Piece, Harm's Way, The Armed, Hatebreed, The Dillinger Escape Plan, etc., which are often called mathcore and metallic hardcore, and bands like Atreyu, Avenged Sevenfold, Killswitch Engage, Escape the Fate, I Prevail, Bring Me the Horizon, etc., which I know are often called melodic metalcore. I think the divide needs to be made even clearer, because when people say metalcore, it should be clearer which of these two very different genres they mean.
7. Sludge Metal, Grunge, and Stoner Rock are basically different takes on the same basic idea. All were into metal and the 80s punk underground, all were heavily into distortion and a grounded, often sarcastic style. The southern sludge bands wanted to be as real, gritty, and nasty as they could. The grunge bands had an alternative rock element that lightened their sound. The stoner bands were more interested in psychedelia and classic hard rock. But these are the variations on the same basic concept that just happened to come out of the deep south, the pacific northwest, and the southwestern deserts, respectively.
Then what are they? I mean, Hybrid Theory and Meteora sound pretty metal to me. Just because it has hip hop elements and other things mixed in it, doesn't mean that they are not metal. Same applies to Slipknot and Korn, or any other nu metal band.
Dio Sabbath sounds like Dioās solo stuff, except for *Dehumanizer,* which is a rare intersection for Black Sabbath of 1. Great riffs 2. Great Production 3. Great Singing
Power metal and black metal actually vibe aesthetically pretty well with each other. One leans on high fantasy, the other on dark fantasy and mysticism. I put both genres in the same playlist and just vibe out when I'm driving through the mountains or something.
Mastodons Leviathan is nowhere near their best, overrated as fuck. Nearly half the tracks have a meandering problem where they oerplay riffs that honestly don't generate enough interest to justify how long they play them. Also their long closing/or near closing tracks on their first three albums are bad but people just love them because "long=epic"
Huge Mastodon fan here and I'll take it even a step further.
The Hunter is their most fun, least "scaring the hoes" album. Love cruising with the windows down on a sunny day just listening to it. Curl of the Burl and Creature Lives are just š
Pagan and viking metal is 90% purely pathetic. It's human pufferfish with small, weak personalities trying to look badass, middle aged overweight dads with masculinity crisis. It's even worse if they're dead serious and ideological about it. There's not much sadder examples of human degradation
The two maiden albums with Blaze have some of the best bass lines in all of maiden, and have some great songsā¦ The Clansman, Man on the Edge, Sign of the cross, futureal.. these are good songs and idc what anyone says
Production and Mixing job ruin many great albums for me, for example i think Blessed are the sick by morbid angel has one of the worst mixing jobs on a death metal album ever, and i find it nearly unlistenable, coming immediately after altars which had an incredible mix for 89 thereās no reason Blessed should sound so thin and flat
For anyone interested, to see the takes OP is asking for, you'll have to sort by controversial, because, by definition, the highest voted comments are not the ones represented in the image.
I can't stand the wall of digital sound that is modern metal, while archspire has mad talent, something about their production and relentless technicality bores tf out of me. For some reason I end up listening to 90s-necrophagist era technical metal over the new stuff. I just cannot get into it
Lars may be the "worst" famous metal drummer out there, but he's also the most important drum influence in the genre. Ask any metal drummer in any established band, look at all of the interviews with those same guys, and he's always mentioned as heavily influential. Many say he is the best at playing what was "right" for the song. Ringo acolytes say the same about him. Lars is not good live. Lars is not proficient. But you can't argue his pinnacle of importance to the scene.
In the realm of pagan metal and adjacent themes, we need less of the big epic viking metal bands singing about big epic adventures and more bands singing about the smaller, more intimate moments. I have nothing against viking metal, but I want more of what Elvenking has to offer on that front
Bands shouldn't release their fucking demos years after they've reached success.
We don't care about your badly produced music, especially if there's an album version that was actually recorded with the help of sound technicians.
- municipal waste is shite
- thrash metal bands need to stop tuning down and writing groovier metalcore riffs
- pantera are actually good and itās shocking how thatās a hot take by this subās standards
- Batushka is the best black metal band and itās not even close
- post-PoT Anthrax is overrated even though its not that popular anyway
- how confusing the time signature of a prog song is will not make me like it any more
Yāall need to stop listening to the wrong āmodernā metal bands like sleep token and bad omens, of course that shit is trash. Yāall need to be listening to bands like Kadinja, AAL, and Periphery instead, those are good newer bands (come at me on Periphery I fucking dare all of you. I will gladly, politely, and calmly explain how much of a fucking idiot you are (lol jk love you guys š but fr tho))
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None of you are fucking vikings.
not even me?
Especially not you
You are a space viking
AND a demon happy cake day btw
Most redditors aren't fucking anyone to be honest...
"Fuck Heaven, I'm going to Valhalla" š¤”
Fake vikings are so cringe
Counterpoint: Real Vikings died a thousand years ago? Really donāt see a lot of raping and pillaging nowadays. Is UFC the closest we have?
Most vikings didn't even rape and pillage anyway. The view of all norsemen as being pirates is mostly from the sensationalized propaganda of Christian writers who were committed to depicting them as savage and evil because they were broadly pagan, and from them conflating military actions (like the Great Heathen Army or first viking siege of Paris) with regular piracy or raiding. That isn't to say there was no overlap or they were completely innocent or something, but the fact remains that the vast majority of "vikings" never even were *vĆkingar*, there was just as much if not more trading going on between the norsemen and European countries than raiding.
(Totally fair but just to be clear, that was mostly intended as a joke. Online format obscures intention sometimes.)
Nah, just a bunch of dudes in Minnesota who wear purple.
I'm a Level 23 Paladin
Correct, Iām a fucking Knightly Warlord!!! (Am I delusional? NO! ā¦maybe.) *Saxon- Crusader proceeds to play*
The history of the band Mayhem is much more interesting than the music the band makes
Mayhem is the worst of the early 2nd wave bands easily. Darkthrone, Emperor, Satyricon, Burzum were all miles better than Mayhem
I love all the other bands you listed to death, but come on, with fucking Hellhammer on drums and riffs such as Life eternal, funeral fog, from the dark past, and the title track you can't say it's miles worse than all the others. Euroman was a rancid prick, but he knew how to make a fucking black metal riff. And Hellhammer is a fucking astonishing drummer. I'm talking about DMDS, but the other stuff like Chimera, Ordo ad Chao an Estoic Warfare is pretty good. Attilla is a questionable vocalist tho
Euroman knew how to riff in black metal, but does he stand out next to Fenriz, Satyr, Ihsahn and the others? I don't think so. I'll give you Hellhammer, he is a fucking beast and in a league of his own in that early scene. Vrag also did some amazing bass work on that album. Thing is, for me at least, Attila ruins that album. I can't stand his vocals on it. I understand and respect him for not wanting to mimic Dead, but the direction he went in... yuck. The second he does the "fuuuuuuuuneral FOHHHHHHHHG" part, I skip. I just can't stand it. Same with Dark Past and title track. Life Eternal however is absolutely insane. I will admit that it one of the best early 2nd wave songs and Attila isn't that horrible on it. Deathcrush is Mayhems best release and I'll die on that hill. Everything that has come after, one of the others did much better. But, if you like it, cool for you. I won't piss on your parade, my man :)
Would be true if DMDS and deathcrush didn't exist
They only know Freezing Moon anyway
cold ass take
For real lol, everyone knows this
Could not agree more, though DMDS is pretty great
^This. They gained notoriety for the drama and stunts. The only musical aspect that boosted them was the fact they were early in a new wave. If they started 10 hell even 5 years later without the stunts theyād be a niche band contained to Norwegian fans.
Donāt feel like debating right now so I wonāt name any names but this āthey only made it big because they were at the right place at the right timeā applies to a fuckton of bands/artists across a fuckton of genres
Yeah... this is not a hot take.
Sepultura deserves more credit in the development of death and black metal especially since they did it at such a young age. Igor was 15 and the oldest member Jairo Guedes had just turned 17 when Bestial Devastation was released just a month after Seven Churches. There are videos of them in 1985 performing in corpse paint and over the top black metal attire. Max and Chuck Schuldiner were pen pals and Max sent Chuck a copy of Bestial. Several photos show him in his early years wearing a Bestial Devastation shirt
Saving this comment so I can give them a listen when I get home from work
They're kind of weird looking back.Ā They were black metal when it was super niche Venom and Bathory era stuff.Ā They were death metal from it's early stages.Ā Then they became more thrash when extreme metal moved into almost exclusively black and death. Then to fuck with everyone, they made a nu metal album.
Cavalera brothers are metal gods. So many good albums. And now Max and his son have a band called Go Ahead and Die. Fucking sick.
You never listened to Sepultura?
No. I spend most of my time just listening to black metal or war metal otherwise I'm just exploring the most unknown metal genres
Boy to listen to arise for the first time, that would be awesome
Hmmm...odd right? I actually listened to them early this morning. I love Max Cavalera
Awesome! Enjoy And many will sayāRoots suckā but just enjoy what you like and skip what you donāt Donāt allow anyone make you act like sheep, people!
Wait, this is a hot take?š
Agreed, massively important. Morbid Visions is my favourite Sepultura album
They are legendary in the inner circles of death metal and definitely deserve more credit from the masses. Look at the side projects alone
Gojira is death metal for people who don't like death metal.
What about people who like death metal and Gojira?
Find a good psychiatrist
Weāre already trying
They're more a proggy groove metal band with death vocals than really death metal
This is the most metalhead response Iāve ever seen
Death Metal š“ *Technical* Death Metal š³
Gojira aren't really death metal though
Iām in this comment and Iāve been hurt
Yes, and also one of the best current metal bands. Like, it's death metal that a lot of people who don't enjoy most death metal enjoys, sure? That is in no way a negative. In no way does that detract from any artistry or quality. It's just a vague description of where they lie stylistically.
As a die hard OSDM fan who just listened to āThe way of all fleshā last night for the first time, Iām appalled lol
How can you not like that album?? It's so good :D
Just because something is old, does not mean it is āclassic.ā A lot of old albums are honestly kinda awful. Bad songwriting, bad engineering/mix, or other elements just come together to make something truly mediocre at best.
Got any good examples?
for mediocre albums?
Yes
[here you go,](https://open.spotify.com/album/1uyFW7daSqB3cTHzJcsSYN?si=2A_pNmjbQv-dslVRmNqSCA) i donāt say no one can like it btw, but this should fit the definition of the guy above
Whatās funny is that Iām listening to a bit of this album, and itās not even that bad. I like the fact that the bass doesnāt just disappear in the mix.
Perhaps mediocre
Do people call this a classic? Have honestly never seen it before in my life
Medio-core
Sing.... sing a song.... make it simple, so all the kids can sing along
Give us an example then
Most of the bands mentioned and recommended on this sub sucks.
I can't upvote this enough. I don't even bother sampling them anymore.
I think a lot of people in the scene are more focused on finding a thing no one knows about more than they are about finding actual good music.
gotta agree there, kinda stopped trying to see why people were into what they are into.
Make one more acid bath post, I dare you
Venom is not a Black Metal band. I donāt care what the lyrics are about, I donāt care what the album is called, Venom is highly influential but is *not* Black Metal. The first Black Metal band is Bathory.
But surely only for a few albums right? And which ones? Their debut sounds like a Venom record with a goblin on vocals. I'd say Bathory are the closest first wave got to second wave, especially on Under the Sign. But there's still alot of thrash/speed metal in their sound. Then they moved away from it completely with Hammerheart.
Yeah youāre totally right, especially with the debut, but āReturnā¦.ā And āUnder The Signā are just BM straight up.
I have a line I drop when I'm nerd jousting about music with friends: if a band influenced a genre that band isn't in that genre. Ramones weren't punk, they hated the term. They played rock and roll. Venom was just regular degular heavy metal with a flair for theatrics.
Nazi/supremacist/antisocial/dangerous/etc people can still make good music. Doesn't mean you agree with any of their views. (edit: but if they're a genuine dick of a person then it's a free pass on pirating their discography in my books)
*Pirate Metal intensifies*
True. There's good and bad music anywhere. Some horrible people are actualy very talented artists. If you are a "separate the art from the artist" person, then you can profit a lot from this listening experience.
But when they bring their politics into their music then it's a no-no
Tim Owens albums with Judas Priest are the best they have.
Wow. In the spirit of this kind of thread, I'll upvote because I wildly disagree.
Well, this is one of the takes of all time
Yes that is a fucking insane take, you win o7
This made me fucking angry. Take my upvote, you cock.
Thatās a blazing hot take that I donāt agree with but it definitely fits this thread 100% so have my upvote. Nicely done.
Bad production is never good (as in the shitty "raw black metal sound" a la early Darkthrone and Bathory). It's tolerable but every album with shitty production would sound better with better production.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, that's why it's a hot take. Don't get me wrong I love Darkthrone and Bathory. But I merely tolerate their production; I don't think it benefits the music. And that's not to say I expect everything to have super polished production. I just think a lot of those early black metal albums would sound significantly better with even just a slight touch-up. To each their own though.
While I do agree that "raw sound" shouldnāt cover up bad production, I will argue that early Darkthrone and Bathory have perfect production but with lower-quality sound due to the fact that they probably couldnāt get higher quality equipment.
"Bad" production can add a lot to the music imo, especially to the atmosphere. And in the case of darkthrone and bathory it's actually not even that bad, and it works pretty well. It's not overdone, and I've learned to prefer some of my black metal with bad production. Good production is good, but I'm more of an atmosphere guy. I'll admit, it was an acquired taste for me as well. Another example of bad production that works really well is burzum, especially with filosofem. Can't imagine that one having good production. It would take away a lot from the album. Now, would a lot of black metal albums be better with actually good production? Probably. But I wouldn't change it.
Good thing neither bathory nor darkthrone have bad production, because bad production ā raw production
this, it's insane that people think cleaner production is automatically better and vice versa
Deicide is not a top-tier death metal band
Self titled to serpents of the light is an incredible run
I don't really understand why dimebags playing is so highly regarded
I think a lot of artists are immortalized when they die much younger than expected. Their career never had the chance to stagnate or taper off. Take James Dean for example, he was in like 3 movies where his character had a name. He did a pretty good job, but when he died tragically young he became an icon.
Agreed
Divebombs go brrr
It always happens when someone dies, especially if they die at their prime
I disagree, but I will upvote. Sometimes people go crazy for stuff the he didnāt even invent
Thereās better death metal albums out there than Left Hand Path
Not really a hot take. It got 10th place in the 90's metal tournament post. Other posts on death metal it's barely mentioned or highly upvoted.
The Fathomless Mastery is my favorite album of the Swedish death metal scene
No shit Sherlock :)
Early Ghost is metal.
No one can convince me elizabeth and ritual aren't old school metal jams
Listened to opus last night ...... Everything on that album is metal. Last track, Genesis, wails hard
a ton of potentially good albums are ruined by a shitty snare tone, this is especially common in slam/bdm for some reason
Pyrexia
You mean stuff like this? [Anomalistic - Human Decimation (Full Album) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGWAnsntD0Y&t=378s)
yeah exactly, it's like they were writing a good album and then the drummer said "what if I made St. Anger the only thing people can hear" and for some reason no one pushed back on it
Sepultura got better when Max quit Overkill have made a lot of good albums, but haven't produced a great album in a very long time. Suffocation - highly influential, bloody boring Black metal is as big a pose as glam metal Iron Maiden, Metallica, and Megadeth should stop recording new studio albums and stick to live albums. Judas Priest should keep going though.
Did you listen to Maiden's last release, Senjetsu?Ā Fuckin wild take, sire šš¾šš¾šš¾
Upvoted because what the fuck are these takes. Sepultura ended with Arise after that they disbanded (thatās what I like to believe)
Nickelback are an excellent live band.
And a great studio band,as well. Very nice songs overall. Ok, it got "trendy" and meme to hate on them, but they are musically a good band.
All The Right Reasons is front to back a phenomenal album. Probably better than most radio metal bands have ever released.
Alot of metal albums are more highly regarded because of their influence/legacy than how good the album is. Case in point - Bathory and Deaths debuts. Debuts are good but both bands went on to make much better records. If you take away their influence on forming black and death metal respectively, they wouldn't be as regarded.
Tbh scream bloody gore is not that great, leprosy is miles better. SBG is mostly the same thrash beat and simmilar tremolo riffs, but it did have a big influence
Nu-metal is ''metal'' for people that don't actually like metal.
Ice cold take. Even then what even is the point? A lot of nu metal fans don't like other metal genres ... so what?
Polyphia is boring as shit.
Cold take but a true take
A few things: stop calling a band "progressive & creating new styles of music" just because they throw cleans, harmonies, or some different style/instrument into the music. It's lazy to say "this band shatters expectations" when a simple search reveals it's been done before -and- done better. Stop basing the number of albums sold as what makes an amazing & talented band; a million idiots would happily buy slop if they're pandered to. That doesn't make the album good. "But they sold a million records!" And? I know bands like Schammasch that people have slept on for over 10 years that make records that shiver your soul, & yet they aren't conquering record sales. If a band doesn't truly believe in what they write, then they are hypocrites pandering for your money. If they bedecked their stageshow with images of Baphomet/Satanic imagery, but then run from accusations of Satanism, they're just trying to look hard & spooky & are edgelords; ie Slipknot (Joey & Shawn both said the images were only used for "theatrical purposes" back during "Iowa" tour, & denied Satanism). Lastly (there's more, but I'll stop here), black metal bands of today, JUST because that super raw sound was iconic for black metal back in the early 90s, doesn't mean you should be chasing that fart in 2024. Do your own god damned thing & make your own sound in the genre.
Thereās a dude here that whenever I shit on his pretty lame taste (thinking godsmack is top tier) he cites how many albums theyāve sold as if that makes them good He also truly thinks Tommy Lee is a better drummer than bonzo cuz more people know who he is Itās infuriating
I agree with all takes except the third one. I donāt want to convert to satanism just to play black metal
Judas Priest are better than a lot of heavy metal bands and thatās a hill Iām willing to die on
So one of the most famous and loved bands in heavy metal are better than others? Never seen such a hot take
Next heāll try to tell us Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath are good bands too.
You're gonna die of old age on that hill
Anything for Judas Priest šš
In no way is that a "hot take" my guy.
>Metal has officially entered its āSoundCloud Rap eraā : Iām talking about bands like Sleep Token and Spiritbox stop listening to shitty music made for mainstream listeners, the underground metal scene is arguably stronger than it's ever been My hot take is that Blasphemy is the Mayhem of war metal. Highly influential for the subgenre, but they themselves are largely mediocre.
A lot of "underground" bands are underground because they suck.
Guns and roses are completely overrated.
None So Vile while influential is a pretty boring album with some good moments here and there (Slit your Guts or Phobophile) Slam as whole is a very boring genre lacking substance/creativity and hasnāt been able to progress in years because the formula wonāt allow it to. (Some good slam would be digested flesh or cerebral hemorrhage) Pantera fucking sucks I canāt believe people actually like this shit. Itās all tough guy riffs/lyrics with over the top solos. Black Metal is 100% the genre with the widest range of variety and creativity, bringing bands like Sigh, Xasthur, Branikald, Root, Nokturnal Mortum, Nuclearhammer or Peste Noire. We havenāt had a truly good death metal album in like 5 years (except for Inanna and The Chasm yāall keep up the good work). The genre needs to evolve itās pretty bland rn (Maggot Stomp and itās consequences) Russia had the best Black Metal circle (BBH and co) Immolation, Morbid Angel, Autopsy and Incantation are the only US OSDM bands that actually matter.
Pantera birthed shit like 5FDP. They are the spiritual continuation, only pussier
Anyone gatekeeping nu/core genres is a poser.
Never Say Die by Black Sabbath is an awesome album
Meshuggah fucking suck
Anything after Obzen, I agree with you. Anything before that was š„.
Pantera is garbage. And are largely to blame for meathead metal.
I like Pantera but I also agree that they are largely to blame for meathead metal, which is unfortunate
- ...And Justice for All sounds great without bass - Kill 'em All is boring and the tracks all get mixed together - country Metallica wasn't that bad
Ok, you asked so I'm going for it... 1. Much of the best extreme metal is heavily indebted to post-punk. Celtic Frost came up with their sound by combining the speed metal of Motƶrhead with post-punky bands like Bauhaus, Christian Death, and Joy Division, and that influence is only more apparent in Triptykon. In Scandinavia there was a little bit of a rivalry between the often right wing black metallers and the left wing crust punks, but the black metal kids were listening to a lot more crust than they may have wanted to let on. That collection of bands of Napalm Death, Carcass, and Godflesh were all rooted in the anarcho-punk scene. The key death-doom bands like Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride, etc. were from the same areas as gothy post-punk bands like the Sisters of Mercy, and were openly influenced by that music. 2. The metal scene needs to condemn racist bands, AND it needs to stop whining about edgy artists who aren't bigoted. Fuck Peste Noire, Arghoslent, Absurd, and every other fascist band. At the same time, I don't give a shit about some edgy thing Nergal said. The scene is in this awkward state of limbo where some fascist bands are being normalized, while some people aggressively try to tear down bands because somebody was friends with the wrong guy or they said something tone deaf in an interview 30 years ago. There are some bands where the grey area is inevitable - Dissection was a great band, Jon committed a heinous murder but later apologized for it and even killed himself probably in part because of it, and now apparently that band is run by fascist creeps. But it was Jon's band and he didn't believe in fascist shit, so I still like them. Obviously the people normalizing racist bands and the people trying to cancel normal ones are usually different groups of people, but it'd be nice if sane people made a clear attempt to reject racist bands, while also shutting down people trying to cancel bands for stupid shit. 3. Crust Punk is basically an extreme metal genre. 4. Testament are as good or better than the big 4. 5. Uriah Heep waa probably just as influential on power metal as Rainbow or anyone else. 6. "Metalcore" should really be divided more clearly between the more underground sound of bands like Converge, High Tension, Rolo Tomassi, Zao, Botch, Deadguy, Jesus Piece, Harm's Way, The Armed, Hatebreed, The Dillinger Escape Plan, etc., which are often called mathcore and metallic hardcore, and bands like Atreyu, Avenged Sevenfold, Killswitch Engage, Escape the Fate, I Prevail, Bring Me the Horizon, etc., which I know are often called melodic metalcore. I think the divide needs to be made even clearer, because when people say metalcore, it should be clearer which of these two very different genres they mean. 7. Sludge Metal, Grunge, and Stoner Rock are basically different takes on the same basic idea. All were into metal and the 80s punk underground, all were heavily into distortion and a grounded, often sarcastic style. The southern sludge bands wanted to be as real, gritty, and nasty as they could. The grunge bands had an alternative rock element that lightened their sound. The stoner bands were more interested in psychedelia and classic hard rock. But these are the variations on the same basic concept that just happened to come out of the deep south, the pacific northwest, and the southwestern deserts, respectively.
Linkin Park is not Metal and never was
They said controversial, not obvious statements.
Then what are they? I mean, Hybrid Theory and Meteora sound pretty metal to me. Just because it has hip hop elements and other things mixed in it, doesn't mean that they are not metal. Same applies to Slipknot and Korn, or any other nu metal band.
Yeah, I'm always confused why people think they are. But some seem to think if there's yelling and it sounds angry, that's what makes it metal.
Just because metal is awesome, doesnāt mean Taylor Swift isnāt cool too.
Slipknot aren't nu metal
Numetal counts as real metal.
Orbit Culture is not melodeath, especially their latest album, which, btw I love very much
Dio sabbath is kinda overrated
Dio Sabbath sounds like Dioās solo stuff, except for *Dehumanizer,* which is a rare intersection for Black Sabbath of 1. Great riffs 2. Great Production 3. Great Singing
St. Anger for life
Most metalheads talk out of their asses when it comes to music.
A lot of NSBM is objectively great metal music, but I completely understand not wanting to support them in any way.
Sabaton is actually a great band
The Beatles are garbage, one of the most boring bands ever
Power metal and black metal actually vibe aesthetically pretty well with each other. One leans on high fantasy, the other on dark fantasy and mysticism. I put both genres in the same playlist and just vibe out when I'm driving through the mountains or something.
A lot of Metalcore bands do Melodeath better than actual Melodeath bands
Country music is shite
Carcass did your favorite genre better.
2nd wave black metal was a mistake
So what should be the logical continuation of the first wave?
Max Cavalera IS sepultura Dimebag is overated as fuck Johny tardy has better vocal style than chuck
Not enough of you worship Macabre so are clearly novices
Mastodons Leviathan is nowhere near their best, overrated as fuck. Nearly half the tracks have a meandering problem where they oerplay riffs that honestly don't generate enough interest to justify how long they play them. Also their long closing/or near closing tracks on their first three albums are bad but people just love them because "long=epic"
That's because Crack The Sky is obviously their best album.
Huge Mastodon fan here and I'll take it even a step further. The Hunter is their most fun, least "scaring the hoes" album. Love cruising with the windows down on a sunny day just listening to it. Curl of the Burl and Creature Lives are just š
Pagan and viking metal is 90% purely pathetic. It's human pufferfish with small, weak personalities trying to look badass, middle aged overweight dads with masculinity crisis. It's even worse if they're dead serious and ideological about it. There's not much sadder examples of human degradation
The two maiden albums with Blaze have some of the best bass lines in all of maiden, and have some great songsā¦ The Clansman, Man on the Edge, Sign of the cross, futureal.. these are good songs and idc what anyone says
Wolverine Blues is a better album than Left Hand Path
Production and Mixing job ruin many great albums for me, for example i think Blessed are the sick by morbid angel has one of the worst mixing jobs on a death metal album ever, and i find it nearly unlistenable, coming immediately after altars which had an incredible mix for 89 thereās no reason Blessed should sound so thin and flat
New opeth is not to my liking
Deftones suuuck
For anyone interested, to see the takes OP is asking for, you'll have to sort by controversial, because, by definition, the highest voted comments are not the ones represented in the image.
Sabaton is pretty good actually
Alice in chains is more Metal than Grunge
Death (the band) is boring. Not saying theyāre overrated at all. I just think theyāre really boring.
Bolt Thrower is just guttural Sabaton
Upvoting because this is the shittest of shit takes here!
What the fuck is this take
They have literally nothing in common other than nerdy lyrical content
I can't stand the wall of digital sound that is modern metal, while archspire has mad talent, something about their production and relentless technicality bores tf out of me. For some reason I end up listening to 90s-necrophagist era technical metal over the new stuff. I just cannot get into it
I despise Trivium.
Lars may be the "worst" famous metal drummer out there, but he's also the most important drum influence in the genre. Ask any metal drummer in any established band, look at all of the interviews with those same guys, and he's always mentioned as heavily influential. Many say he is the best at playing what was "right" for the song. Ringo acolytes say the same about him. Lars is not good live. Lars is not proficient. But you can't argue his pinnacle of importance to the scene.
Cookie Monster is not a voice coach.
In the realm of pagan metal and adjacent themes, we need less of the big epic viking metal bands singing about big epic adventures and more bands singing about the smaller, more intimate moments. I have nothing against viking metal, but I want more of what Elvenking has to offer on that front
Black metal fucking sucks
Iron Maiden is meh. If they made music today, elitists would shit on them as they shit on power metal.
Bands shouldn't release their fucking demos years after they've reached success. We don't care about your badly produced music, especially if there's an album version that was actually recorded with the help of sound technicians.
- municipal waste is shite - thrash metal bands need to stop tuning down and writing groovier metalcore riffs - pantera are actually good and itās shocking how thatās a hot take by this subās standards - Batushka is the best black metal band and itās not even close - post-PoT Anthrax is overrated even though its not that popular anyway - how confusing the time signature of a prog song is will not make me like it any more
Yāall need to stop listening to the wrong āmodernā metal bands like sleep token and bad omens, of course that shit is trash. Yāall need to be listening to bands like Kadinja, AAL, and Periphery instead, those are good newer bands (come at me on Periphery I fucking dare all of you. I will gladly, politely, and calmly explain how much of a fucking idiot you are (lol jk love you guys š but fr tho))
Sleep Token is remarkably mediocre and Lorna Shore is boring as fuck.
WASP is awful.
Avenged Sevenfold sucks
Number of the beast isnāt that great an album and the song gangland is slept on
Most āclassicā metal bands are boring or sound like like shit
Stoner Doom is Trance EDM with different drugs.
Slow simple kinda groove breakdowns are infinitely better than deathcore and those fast kind of breakdowns
Master of Puppets has crappy production, almost as bad as Justice. But the tunes are killer.