Your right if we can just get people to work together it will change and now is the time. I have some exciting news from Virginia I had to sign a form at the clinic that allows us now if we become incarcerated to continue to take our methadone thank God it's a law here now I came off of 390 in a jail and almost died so to me this is a miracle
That's awesome news !! I can't even imagine what that experience was like. At 55mg I feel like shit just missing a day. People say 24 to 72 hours is only psychological. I disagree. Everyone's metabolism is different. 390 though ??? I've never heard that high of a dose. Regardless even at 1mg nobody should get cut off.
390? Holy shit how can you even stay awake? At 260 i was a boneless chicken ranch just a a mess. Spent the weekend in jail on that dose and the nurse was amazed at how high of a dose i was at.
I am on 330 split,sort of, and it's 6:35p.m. and I feel gross angry,and sweaty.Ive asked my doctor to go up again and she won't and I know it's right for me and I am sick of this,!I can't take a shower because I am too cold and sweaty at this dose to eat or bath,and it's abusive to be on this dose and I have dry mouth too.
I feel you. I feel my dose going away around 3 and it just gets worse until I go to sleep and that’s IF I fall asleep. Sometimes I can’t sleep and I end up dosing in the middle of the night. It’s sucks your doctor is stopping you from going up. Hopefully they will change their mind because it’s a different game than it was ten years ago but some doctors are still going on old info.
You’re welcome and good luck with your dr appointment. Oh yeah I wanna tell you that the hot/cold withdrawal sweat will turn into OMG im always hot sweats the higher you go lol
I really am mad because I get better if I sweat with a dose of methadone and I keep telling the doctor I am still sweating and I am cold and wet and angry and can't take a shower or anything.I mean I hate asking for more but there's no special amount to stop at.
I hope you don't plan on being in this forever because they won't dose you in a nursing home or replace this with near enough pain medication to help you live with any amount of dignity. Everyone must go through a final detox at some point in their life. think about it. How many people in their 80s or 90s driving to the clinic? You think it's that easy just to get a taxi a couple times a month? Wait till you are in a wheelchair.
I don’t know how old you are but unless you’re close nursing home age I don’t see the point in worrying about “what if’s”. Especially “what if’s” that won’t happen for 40 years. I could die today walking my dog. I’m not stressing about my nursing home days.
In california medicare offers free rides to and from the clinic. My cousin was homeless and too sick to work and they provided him with free rides and free detox care including methodone and eventually suboxone. You all should contact the California administrators and see how they accomplished this. I don't know about continued treatment in Jail though.
I agree 100%. Even up at 110ish, I still feel like absolute hell missing even one day. I have a very fast metabolism. I wish my clinic did split dosing.
If you’ve been in the clinic for 11 years, don’t you have plenty of take homes? Why not just take half your dose in the morning and the other half when you would like to..,?
Ahh bummer. The previous state I lived in was also illegal, not even medical, but always allowed THC.
I was just curious also bc I’ve heard many people complain about not getting split dosing, yet they have take-homes… thought maybe same situation
That's bullshit get a medical card and fight them .... That's what I did in pa. Fuck that I have back problems and what you want to shove more pharmaceuticals at me... Advocation ppl!!!
It’s true, everyone is so different. I’m a super fast metaboliser (confirmed with genetic testing) and I still get sick between doses while dosing 3 times a day. I’m on a low dose though, currently 9.6mg per day.
In men’s central?! How the hell did you make it through that? That would be torture. Luckily LA county you’ll get out fast by an OR unless it’s the weekend.
They had me in the towers first and then moved me down to central. Unfortunately I was stuck waiting to be extradited to Tulare County for like almost three weeks it was miserable. I almost got one of the doctors to give me Librium by pretending I was an alcoholic but at the last possible second he was like “nah, suffer”. Took three full days to even get booked in. I was so happy when they finally took me back to TC lol.
Only good thing was the sheriff’s deputies in LA didn’t want to fuck with charging me for all the pills in my backpack so when I got released in Tulare County I still had a bunch of stuff to get me well. It was a gnarly experience though.
2013. LA County is absolutely fucked. They do not care what happens to in there. A guy hung himself and died in the mental health cell block while I was there cause the guards weren’t doing their checks. And when they were taking me to central and we were going down these escalators there was a little paisa in front of me who was shaking from DTs BAAAD and his pants were too long and kept getting caught in the escalator and I kept having to hold him upright.
The ACLU had just finished installing cameras all over the place because of how many people were getting beat to shit by the guards.
Damn man glad you had something out the door. Luckily Im good now but I remember everyone always said say you drink a fifth everyday and they will give you Librium. Also like the other guy said that time for Men’s Central was crazy. It’s always been dangerous but under Lee Baca at that time it was insane. That was all the years he got in trouble and indicted for in the news if you remember at that time. It was popping off in there. Hope and glad everything is well for you now man
It was terrible..and the jail was horrible I made the mistake of telling them. They put me in a concrete room. Hole in floor. No mat . No blanket no anything. I remember telling a guard I was going to die because I hadn't slept in like 16 days and wasn't sure what was real.
That is amazing! I honestly think it would help so many people stabilize as jail/prison mentally tears you apart, and holy fuck. You are better than me I don’t know if I would have made it. I knew how it felt kicking H in jail i can’t imagine 390 of m!
>came off of 390 in a jail
man.... that must have been wild. i came off 120 in jail and it was SO scary. I thought my heart was going to explode. before now (im on 80 now) ive never tapered, but after that experience I deathly afraid not to. 390?? that must have been so bad.
Where I am we have the ability to be medcated if we become incarcerated but only if we are incarcerated in the same county as our clinic is. (Indiana). At least I believe, I may be wrong. Of Virginia allows that throughout the whole state maybe we can eventually convince Indiana to do the same.
I do . And I got turned down 4 times . Doc wanted to disable me. It is tuff. People have no idea until it is them. It is so hard to get people to care enough to do anything
I totally feel you, I’m physically disabled and my doctors have been trying to get me into palliative care for MONTHS with no luck. In the meantime im just left to suffer every day, to the point that I’m considering offing myself if they still aren’t helping me a year from now or so. It’s not fuckin worth it.
I understand it is unbelievable...I had 3 doctors?....and social security had a doctor check me...same thing...disabled....the judge said no....I don't understand how when the so called experts give their opinion to the judge on what they should do but then the judge goes against it every time it doesn't make sense. I hope they get you took care of my friend there has to be a way. Just stick it out the good spot will come
That is immoral af. 390 is high and I'm surprised you made it through that sane, you are pretty strong.
In Aus we are fortunate that those things are organised relatively quickly unless you are first day or so in remand.
Once you get to gaol, splitting the chicken strips ( strip suboxone) is a big deal here, since it's available and harder than ever to get real drugs. Buggered if I know how they keep it in their mouths without absorption or saliva corruption though, but addicts get smart fast in prison out of necessity.
Though my ex did say it was kinda nice having real methadone before they transitioned him down to the govt. mandated suboxone weaning.
Wander down for breakfast, get dosed, back to the cell to snooze before art class...it's actually sounding pretty good in these times.
I think they may have passed that law in NC. I've seen cops bring in pregnant women who were locked up before, but a few weeks back, I saw a cop bring a guy to my clinic from the next county over all the way to my clinic to dose. I'm guessing he lives in or around my town but was locked up in the other county.
Dang. They can’t even get their numbers accurate! Some say there are *three hundred thousand* methadone patients in the United States. Another states as many as *six hundred thousand*.
The reason that’s important, it’s going to take large numbers making a huge noise to make the government take notice.
**Obviously nobody seems to care how many of us have died from overdoses, especially in the last few years**. Reminds me of the AIDS epidemic in the 80’s. So little done, after all *it’s only those gays dying*! Wasn’t until it started to affect the heterosexual population that anyone took notice.
I absolutely think you’re on to something. Not just your morning coffee kicking in! I think if more of us knew exactly what was needed to instigate change, we’d be happy to do so.
Calling/writing my congressman today! Thank you for a wonderful post! 💜🌷
I have always said that going to the methadone clinic was more like going to the probation officer. Most clinics certainly do not have an atmosphere of treatment. It is very punitive. You are right on and I have been saying this for a while as I have been following this Bill in Congress. Unfortunately the United States is dysfunctional right now on multiple levels, I'm just not sure how much attention this bill is going to get at the present time. Washington is toxic. But yes call your congressperson and put the bug in their ear. Get your family to call. What is a plus on our side is both sides of the aisle, Republicans and democrats, seem to be on board with this. I have read that the clinic's lobbying group of course is fighting it, but I really think this bill could pass.
Already wrote my senator. He’s actually one of the ones proposing MOTA. All the people in here against picking up at pharmacies because of their bad experiences with Suboxone… well I’ll take my chances. It’s better than being punished over crazy stuff and being forced to revolve your whole life around a damn clinic. There’s plenty of people worldwide relying on pharmacies for their life saving medications. I think it’s ok to throw methadone into the mix!
Good job, please make sure you write your congressman too.
I’ve been on Suboxone, picking it up was fine. I mean any hassle pales in comparison with going to a clinic every week. Being able to get methadone from a Dr.’s office would literally be revolutionary for us. It will also expand care to those who need it.
I know I’m gonna get downvoted to shit but there are groups who’ve tried what you’re proposing or calling for and for every one where heard of there are 100 with the same cause behind it that you’ve never heard of and never took off. they either takeoff like fire to silk, stall out after a few months/years (BLM/ACAB. They’re still there just no longer making change) and then you have the movements that got too close to the sun (The Civil Right Movement, Anti Vietnam war Movements, Seattle protesting against civil infringements and being kidnapped in the process and dropped off outside the city) and we’re either conventionally or unconventionally disbanded.
There are a few more very prime examples I could give for each category but bottom line is the average human sees an addiction as that individuals fault and asking the non addict to pay extra tax dollars to change something that doesn’t affect them isn’t anywhere in this nations health priority, it’s sad, I’d like it to change, but it doesn’t make it more realistic unfortunately. If you’re asking for change in your daily live that you can’t do yourself it usually costs tax dollars somewhere in the chain to change.
If it took 7yrs for Insulin to be addressed for its ballooning and what congress deemed costs that were “greed to the highest level”, then I unfortunately don’t have much hope for a country that’s pushing for Suboxone and the implant.
This isn’t a personal bash on your post, it’s just from personal knowledge of the interior working of financial habits in government contracted or directed entities like hospitals or law enforcement
What is true? People shouldn’t advocate for bills that will greatly improve their quality of life and keep their fellow cohort alive? I would love to know who’s upvoting these posts.
Listen, everyone actually going to a methadone clinic should read the comment that Zeef is responding to bc it shows just the kind of stuff that the lobby, which I guess includes Suboxone makers, busy congresspeople.
So don’t call your representative once call them 3 times, then call your senator. If you have a private doctor or therapist as many of us do ask them to call their congressperson, or write a letter with them that they can forward.
Then wait a few days and do the same thing. We need to stress that people are dying of a rate that is catastrophic and if they don’t vote for this bill, not only ourselves, but every family member we have will never vote for them again.
I don’t know about you guys, but what the tax assessor and his upvoter has motivated me to do is tell everyone I see at the clinic on Wed, then Friday, etc… about the bill with information on how they can reach their congressman and a printout of talking points.
How dare anyone try to tell you or I not to get politically active in our own lives!!
Once again if anyone needs info they can contact me, OP if you read this we should do a similar post every couple of days, but honestly the best thing we can do is talk to our fellow mmtp patients: many of them (us) are beaten down by years of bureaucratic indifference and apathetic so stress the positive: not only will doctors be able to give us care (and they will to people with all sorts of insurance and even maybe via self pay: if you currently pay $12 a day to a clinic you can pay $150 a month to a Dr.) the clinic system will be forced to FIGHT FOR THEIR BUSINESS.
Our congress people don't work for us. They work for whoever has the most money. And that sure as fuck isn't addicts, or anyone advocating for us. I'm not saying it's true because I want it to be. I'm saying it's true, because it's TRUE. Wake up
Okay, man, I know it’s crazy idealistic to think congress wont pass its own bill! Let’s just do nothing and hang our heads in shame and listen to you but first lets do a thought experiment and take a look at the actual objective political forces as they line up in real world current conditions here and let’s all consider the following:
1) an actual living congressman and a longtime sitting senator wrote a bill for the modernizing of opiate addiction treatment the main aim of which is to allow doctors to prescribe methadone. Doctors and prescribers helped them write the bill.
2) There is currently a crisis of fentanyl related deaths unique in human history and all of those dead people have very angry loved ones, not to mention our own loved ones and they can all be our allies.
3) if these pols go against the bill and the current death rate continues unabated unless they’re ready to quit politics and become a methadone clinic lobbyist it’s in their political interests to vote for the bill bc at least they can say they did something about the opiate crisis
4) doctors, which have a big lobby and certain pharmaceutical companies which are no slouches in politicking are also for the bill.
5) the current system makes no sense, is too costly and COVID was proof that all its regulations are unnecessary.
6) the methadone bureaucracy has a lobby but it’s not like we’re up against Raytheon and armament manufacturers or credit card companies or the NRA.
7) your faux-nihilism isn’t real and everyone knows it.
“Wake-up.” Yes fellow methadonians wake up and unite you have nothing to lose but your nice counselors and your free thimble of Kool-Aid.
Fuck yeah !!! This is the attitude America needs now. With this issue and so many others as the guilty ones throw stones in DC, and on CNN and Fox News. We elected those bastards to represent us. They screwed the hippies, they killed the black panthers, murdered MLK on and on and on they've subverted the will of 'we the people '. Fuck em !!!! We can do this.
Reading you post this lyric came to mind
" We haven't had that spirit here since 1969" and yes to your ideas. The power of the pen!! We are right on this issue. Time for America to grow the fuck up.
Those aren’t good examples at all bc you are talking about more general social movements, here we have an actual bill already set up for us we just have to try and make as much noise as the methadone lobby. I mean why would you tell people not to take an active role in one of the most important facets of their life with stories about trying to defund the cops?
Did you know we’re talking about an actual bill sponsored by a congressman?
Every example I posted was a movement to change a law, policy, or social normalization that was at its core for the betterment of the human race and was shut down, why would a bill for a medication that has an alternative with Sub/Bup that costs less to make, no hub to dispense from, much easier to prescribe, no OD’s.
You can take part in it all you want but this bill won’t change the stakes when you have equivalents of 1.8 million per fiscal quarter into an average state funded clinic that can be cut with Suboxone, and as a dual purpose why I added the insulin as an example: unlike methadone there is no alternative and they had a stronger case that they’ll die without the medication and that didn’t do anything for 7yrs.
The noise that Diabetics made is still posted on TikTok mainly but other social media platforms about how a bottle that lasted a week costed $700-$900 in 2015 and if people didn’t get that, they died, that never changed the price of insulin or persuaded lobbyists in the pharma industry to move the price line. A methadone addict will live , uncomfortably for a few weeks but they’ll live from switching from Methadone to Suboxone or Bup. Implants as alternatives, a diabetic will not last a week without their insulin cause there is no alternatives and if that wasn’t addressed let alone fixed until ‘22, I have no hope that a bill very similar in askings as the diabetics put forward in their bill is going to gain traction for methadone when Sun/Bup implants are being pushed as the default way forward from opiate/opioid addiction and in the eyes of the congressmen and taxpayers, Methadone can be replaced with a medicine that costs less for a city’s infrastructure and state medical fees with Sub/Bup.
So why wouldn’t they take that option, your congressman who also listens to the 9.5/10 other constituents calls who aren’t on methadone asking why they’re being taxed more for a methadone clinic’s fees are something they have to consider too if they wanna stay in office.
If you were forced between cold Turkey and 8-32mg’s of Subs what would you choose? This is most likely the argument the bill will come down to from the opposition.
Ok, I’m having a really hard time following your line of thought. I think it’s gross to tell people they shouldn’t be vocal about something that affects their lives.
1) The civil rights act passed in 1964. Defunding the police is hardly “for the betterment of the human race.” There was never a bill introduced to congress for BLM/ACAB whatever that is.
2) Methadone is just as cheap as bupe, maybe more so. The taxpayers don’t pay for it unless the patient has Medicaid in which case doctors will actually cost much less because it will be one visit rather than up to 30 a month. The clinics will not be a monopoly and the clinics will be forced to drop their rates to compete.
3) Calling your representative or writing them takes 5 minutes. In another comment Ive posted a template for a letter so people don’t have to write their own.
4) 110,000 people died of ODs last year, an extraordinary tragedy but also a bleak assessment of the current state of opiate treatment and politicians jobs are on the line to do something about it.
4) If they block this no brainer of a bill people like me will let everyone in their community know that they have blood on their hands for not increasing access to the single most effective treatment for OUD.
5) Then there’s the fact that no other medical treatment exists where the experience like a trip to a probation officer. Every other medication is prescribed their medicine by a doctor and people on methadone have the same right and must loudly demand it. Another good reason why politicians if educated correctly will ignore the methadone clinic lobby lies like the ridiculous tax argument you mentioned which is actually an inversion of the truth.
6) The cats out of the bag, a congressman called the clinic monopoly a “cartel” so they will fall, it’s only a matter of time.
You're 100% correct! Methadone is cheaper than buprenorphine. I used to have a pain management doctor prescribed me 300 tablets a month, 100 mg a day, and the prescription at Walgreens was less than $50. And that is a for-profit pharmacy! Methadone is dirt cheap. These clinics are literally purchasing it by the gallons, it is pocket change for them to dose you. I don't see any politicians blocking this as a matter of fact I see them using it in their campaigns to loudly proclaim that they voted for it!
Hopefully they agree, but I love the focus on the single aspect of the methadone itself, yes methadone is cheaper.
The system that surrounds it is what costs money edit: a pharmacy is already in place for non addicts, yes it costs extra money for staffing for a separate building to dose a specific medication…. Also you wouldn’t call the civil right movement for the better of the human race? Go say that to a black dudes face and I’d like to see their reaction. The fact that you don’t know what the movements that I named are isn’t surprising but maybe don’t use those things instead of shilling them for your cause…
Have you checked the statistics for paid to unpaid patient ratios? When I last checked it was something like 80% are covered by the state on the coasts, that’s 20% of the funds paid for by the actual patients in about 1/3rd of the population of patients, and 80% taken from…taxes.
You can keep bringing up all these points too but the reality is this is not a priority to the American healthy system, it’s not a subjective statement dude…and if it does pass watch about every state who opposed the bill to start some harsh and extremely targeted laws.
110,000 people died last year of Fentanyl, people care now. If you’re saying the clinic system needs to be replaced by a less costly model, ie a doctor yeah sure I’m fine with that. You know what really costs money, untreated addiction and jails? And the stat you cite is worthless because very few, almost none as far as I can see MMTP clinics accept private insurance which is part of their grift and something I’ll have to mention in my next letter to my congressman. And if Medicaid pays that’s what it’s supposed to do.
As I said the civil rights act was passed in 1964, I don’t know what particular legislation you’re talking about (the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.)
You know who doesn’t have civil rights, methadone patients and you’re telling them that congress is too busy dealing with what Trans people are using or not using women’s bathrooms to deal with twice as many dead people as the Vietnam war just last year.
Yes I can keep citing facts and you can keep jabbering nonsense interspersed with information from the clinic lobby. But I’ve made my point, I think you should continue to make yours though, it’s been very revealing of what type of character we’re up against.
So let’s boil it down to this.
When a fentanyl user decides to fall into their disease, did society shove that syringe in their arm/chest/leg/neck? No. So explain why that person should have to pay for your medicine that you need cause you decided to get hooked on a drug and if you chose to get off it you’ll live through the withdrawls.
You can cite points all day long but agiain, you don’t have the funds to support the American opioid addiction, why would you ask a government that goes into debt ~150billion quarterly to support this over say…a profitable industry?
Just in a simple paragraph, why should my children’s taxes be raised because of your fuck up? - average taxpayer.
Again dude. I’ve lived through enough of these debacles thru the 90’s about countless healthcare issues and 30yrs ra later the only thing that forced medical change (better or worse) was COVID.
I’m sorry you’re not worth arguing with, I’m not asking for the government to pay for anything just to let me be prescribed methadone at a doctor’s office that I will in turn pay for. Get it now?
You’re actually quite obtuse as I’ve said that innumerable times. Do you even know what this bill is about?
I would like to add that you heavily imply that you've worked in the health-care sector for, even, heaven forfend, addiction medicine, for 30 years. Do you? Because if you do its not fair to the patients you're around.
Agreed!!
I’m constantly ranting to my fiancé and counselor (who is amazing. Like a true gem) about ALL of this. And my counselor agrees and passes along this kind of feedback to management.
She’s been nothing but supportive of my recovery, listens, is kind, remembers everything I tell her and constantly goes to bat for me. I was one of those people who used fent for the first three years I was at my clinic. I joined like 6 weeks before Covid and was excited and motivated and then Covid hit & the desire for recovery faded into the background. But after getting shuffled around a few counselors, she was new and I feel so damn lucky to be part of her caseload.
From out very first talk, she understood me, no judgement and said I sounded like I truly was ready to quit and that having that mindset is one of the most difficult hurdles to overcome.
But basically, her belief in me without knowing me, helped tremendously and I quit using fent within a month after that. Haven’t relapsed yet and it’s been almost 11 months.
Anyway, quit in early May of 2023 and had a weekend trip planned in the beginning of August with my mom to do some conservation work (we had been applying to this particular project for years and finally got a spot!). My family doesn’t know about my almost decade long addiction, nor the clinic. And we were going to be in a national forest so there was no chance of guest dosing.
Anyway, it took 5 weeks for the fent to leave my system. And then as soon as it did, the UA staff member (who is a miserable human and I truly believes wants us all to fail in life) was pulling shady shit.
Mine and my partners screens were showing dirty for fent every other week. And she pushed to get each test sent to the real lab and lo & behold, clean each time. Anyway, she went to bat to get me my first phase and the exemption so I could go on this life changing trip. But had she just been an average counselor, I would have been so screwed. And treated like a lying, dirty asshole.
And I love to travel and spend time with my family. Those things are crucial to my recovery and my fucking soul. Yet the clinic model makes it nearly impossible to do those things.
I’m also at a clinic that won’t give take homes for THC so basically no one has take homes. And I believe my state only allows 6-7 days total anyway and you have to have clean UA’s for 2 years…
So yeah, fuck the clinic system. I’ve thankfully avoided jail, probation, bail monitoring, all that fun stuff and I still feel pissed off that there’s a million cameras watching me piss every week. And I know it’s triggering as fuck for a lot of people who have been in the system.
Punitive punishment has no place in medicine.
I’m okay with the clinic model if there were major major changes. And going back to the root purpose of the clinic which is HARM REDUCTION!!
Don’t kill me lol but my clinic is so amazing. I think it’s also that. Where you go. I haven’t been going 4 months and I already only go once a week. When I go I am treated very kind and it’s not made to feel like a probation office. They even have snacks and drinks for us there. I think more clinics need funding and the right staff, it makes a whole world of difference. Don’t get me wrong OP I agree with u and totally support you, but I promise they are good ones out there .
Mine make pancakes fresh on a griddle in the waiting room for us in the morning and also spaghetti plates sometimes, has “carnival” days where they have a popcorn machine and assorted snacks you get a ticket to win a free dosing day. They did just raise prices to $12 a day, but not bad!
For sure! I always take a plate of food, they also give us cherry koolaid foil drink things lol. I always see people turning down the free food that they make in front of us, and I am thinking gah I have learned to NEVER to down a free meal in my lifetime, a free meal is a free meal
Right! Like idk why they would decline unless they’re having stomach issues or something 🤔 and oooh I love Koolaid lol they give us Koolaid with our dose to help with the nasty ass taste 🤢 and they actually make it well lmao unlike some people who put little to no sugar in it 😂
Yeah I always take it even though I don’t eat breakfast, I just eat it later for lunch or give it to my wife lol. Wow they do the same thing here at the window! Either kool aid or water, I always pick water though idk why lol I guess I just like seeing the cup clean and seeing a little red left in the cup trips me out idk lol
I never said that 🙄🙄🤦🏽♀️ I literally just said that it’s kind of them to do that and that I personally wouldn’t decline the food lmfao get that stick out your ass please k thanks 😊
The no drinks rule at my clinic is so there's no chance of someone dosing and then spitting it into the drink and selling/sharing/giving it to someone else. Idk if that's the reason for the rule everywhere but when they told me that (because i complained because WTF???) it made a bit more sense from their perspective.
What the hell again, no water bottle? I imagine this is once again one of those rules that came up when nurses and counsellors gathered around the table and every single one of them wanted to leave their mark on the document of the meeting. When every even remotely sane and reasonable regulation was already written down, still someone important just had to come up with their own rule:
- hmmm, what else could we regulate, everything is taken already... What about if we prohibit water bottles!!
- great idea, Susan, it is done now. Well that is all for today ladies, oh one more thing... don't forget to zoom on genitals when you're monitoring urine samples!
There are good ones, unfortunately the majority are not. I'm right there with you. My clinic is good and treats me decent. It's still outdated and backwards for profit model. I'm 100% with calling or writing our congress people.
My clinic is a joy, honestly as well. They don't do callbacks. They test for weed but don't care. We aren't forced to go to groups to earn takehomes because most of us have good jobs, and the majority do have codes. I am prescribed clonazepam by my clinic doc, which is another unheard of thing in treatment, although I have proven I can take it as prescribed or less for over 10 years so that helps. There's definitely not too many of us that receive benzos though
Great about your clinic!
So the bill should be passed and you can stay at your amazing clinic and those of us who want to be treated by a doctor in an office can do that too! Competition with private prescribers will only make the clinics even BETTER.
I enjoy the clinic I go to the for the most part. OP is right. The clinic model is old and outdated. I feel like if the core concept is treatment than take homes should be more attainable. The more you are able to be in the community and have a job and a life the more I feel people will be able to get better and stable quicker. Of course there is always bad apples that will ruin it for everyone but I think most people who go to the clinic go because they want to stop using drugs and better their life.
People with the disease of diabetes take insulin everyday. We have the disease of addiction and take methadone everyday. #endthestigma!!
The sad truth is that many clinics employ people ( doctors, clinical directors, etc. ) that while qualified would much rather be working somewhere else. This commonly manifests in shitty treatment and even unethical practices. For example what kind of health care facility can demand clients to report within 24 to 48 hours but only keep its doors open until 2pm ? I'm not saying that's unreasonable but for the amount of money they make off a very inexpensive medication they should be patient focused. Again remember the hypocratic oath all physicians swear to follow " to do no harm ". Cutting off someone from medication is unethical and does cause harm. Withdrawal is hell and forces most of us back to the streets and life we worked so hard to get away from. I don't understand how making this medication available at pharmacies would cost the taxpayer money
Thank you for this!! I’lll definitely call my congressperson and have my family call too! We are all FED UP. Can we post something like this every week, Mondays are great cuz that gives people a whole week to call and/or write to their congressperson’s. We need to stay on top of this if we want this to work.
I wish I could relate to you but here in Australia, we have a very good system for opiate replacement. I go to a public clinic and I'm on the Buvidol monthly injection and I go there once a month and get taken to a room and they give me the shot and I say thank you very much and I go about my life. My clinic treats all their clients with absolute dignity and respect. It's the users that are disgraceful towards staff who are trying their best. They are so self entitled and expect to be dosed within 30 seconds of being there. They stand there banging on the door telling staff to hurry the fuck up even though their Methadone is free. They have nothing to be upset about. Some people are so disgusting the way they behave. I completely understand why alot of medical workers hate dealing with addicts and I don't blame them sometimes
it's the same here, it just depends on the clinic. I go in twice a month for 10 minutes and pick up my methadone. sadly the max where I go is two weeks.
addicts are exactly like any other group of people. some are horrible and some are fine. anyone who works in a customer facing job will tell you that the general public sucks. it isn't unique to addicts.
Methadone doesn’t work if the junk is cut with benzos or xylazine or any of these crazy new “designer opiates”. People addicted to fentanyl are already going to need more than 2-3 times what a regular heroin addict would need for the methadone to even do it’s job.
The United States needs to legalize heroin or at least heroin clinics like 8 other countries (including Canada) have done. The science shows that legal, clean, supply of drugs is much more effective in treating Opioid Addiction than methadone or suboxone.
Even if the United States started a program like safe supply in Canada, people could at least get off of street drugs that are cut with who knows what, and switch to safe, pharmaceutical grade opiates like oxymorphone or morphine.
Countries have been doing these programs for years and all the statistics show greater program retention rates, lower crime, less disease spreading, as well as a more functional citizen. Seeing as most of the time spent by addicts is either waiting for drugs, or trying to obtain money for drugs, with a safe supply and a doctor’s supervision, an addict can actually start to address the root of their addiction and begin to move forward in life.
This is a fact and anyone involved in these types of programs will attest to that fact. Let’s stop punishing addicts and forcing them to continue to play Russian roulette with street drugs. I think it’s obvious to everyone that making a substance illegal does nothing to curb its use. You would think they would have learned that from the prohibition smh.
The problem with that is that you can't truly be functional because you can't have a job if you're at a heroin clinic inhecting 3x a day. That's been the problem with the ones in Canada patients have said. I do think that people that test positive for fentanyl should be fast tracked to a higher dose.
There are basically 2 options- companies owning clinics or the government. Pick your poison, you know? It's illegal for a doctor to rx it for more than 3 days for OUD (even in the hospital) unless you are lined up for a methadone clinic next.
I know they've passed legislation this this last year so that mobile vans can dose people who live a certain distance from a clinic.
Jails are supposed to continue your methadone treatment too now, but I don't know if it's actually happening. If I was sentenced to jail time I know I would find out before turning myself in and if they're not I'd speak to the judge about it and try to get put somewhere else or get house arrest with permission to do the clinic.
I pay 410 a month because I go to a different county. It's a joke really but I pay it because I earned my take homes and they'll take them away and I'll have to drive every day 45 minutes back and forth. Oh and I work nights.
You make a good point. Unfortunately I think our voices would be way more powerful if many of us were able to get off of methadone and then do the things you are talking about. I feel like we won’t be taken as serious until then.
Also, you are right about the greed part of those who run the clinic. I once was in a Suboxone program and the counselor I saw for that really pushed me to get off of it and in to NA. Here at this clinic however, I have been going 10 + years and have never had anything that would resemble a push or even a suggestion to go down in my dose. I have always been the one to initiate that conversation and I never end up starting a taper. I know it’s my responsibility, but I can just tell I could take it for life and they would be fine with that.
That's bc these clinics are run by doctors not addicts. Sounds crazy but 90% of doctors know nothing about addiction except statistics. Statistics are useless. Addicts are incredibly unreliable in regards to self reporting which is what most of these statistics are based on. The NA counselor knew what you should do because he was someone with an answer
Put also your family to call. Your friends. Everyone that know you and they don't watch at you like a number or a statistic. Very good post OP. It was time someone to talk about this. A lot of people blame the methadone not the clinics that should work w/ methadone to make you better. I pray to God that you guys will do a change. You deserve it!
Wow! That’s amazing, but you should still advocate for MOTAA so that your fellow addicts can go to a Dr. if they prefer and more importantly there’s more individualized treatment and more treatment in general for those who want it.
Well I find this sort of amusing because while I do agree with some of the provisions in the bill that need to be passed, I disagree with others
But you don't have the authority to tell everyone what to do either
And without proof, some of the things that you have said come across like conspiracy theory
[MODERNIZING OPIOID TREATMENT ACCESS ACT !](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/644)
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/644](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/644)
Call your congressperson and Senator! Help move this bill along!
It seems to me the MOTAA bill is currently stalled but I don’t know. We need to make a lot of noise. It was introduced by Connecticut congressman Ed Markey and is officially designated as MOTAA s. 644 (Modernization Opiate Treatment Accessibility Act.)
Contact your representative and senator! Here’s the gist of something I wrote my congressman, feel free to use any of it.
***
As a registered [insert political party or that you’re “independent.”] who has lived in your district for [x amount of time] I am writing with urgency about the proposed legislation for opiate treatment modernization commonly known as MOTAA (S. 644) (co-sponsored by Sen. Ed Markey (D-CT) and Rand Paul (R-KY).)
Thorough reform of this system is long overdue.
Its modality is unique among medical treatments, as it bears striking similarity to probation—or even parole. This despite the fact that methadone patients are at the clinic voluntarily and have not been convicted of so much as a parking violation.
The current monopoly enjoyed by a system which your colleague, Don Norcross (D-NJ,) says “operates like cartels” would be opened up by the bill, allowing opiate addicted patients to be prescribed their life-saving medication in the privacy of a private doctor’s office.
Most importantly though this bill would drastically increase access to methadone maintenance during a tragic epidemic, which last year killed over 100,000 people from overdose, an extraordinarily large number.
Highly respected advocacy groups like the American Society of Addiction Medicine and Faces and Voices of Recovery strongly support this bill.
Unsurprisingly, however, the methadone clinic system has a powerful lobby on Capitol Hill and are, as I write, using misinformation, scaremongering and astro-turfing campaign to block this life saving bill.
Such politicking is always cynical in the realm of medicine. But in the face of a lethal fentanyl epidemic that has no end in sight it is shameful.
Please use your influence to push forward, and vote for, this life-saving bill.
I'm glad to hear that. I've been told recently that it's in Ohio, which I'm in Northeast, but I only know of one county jail that kept you dosing. I'm gonna look into tho. Cuz that's insane. I'm on 170, I could not imagine kickin at over 3 stone. That's murder bro. Might as a well tooth pick the urethra and cauterize your butthole shut. I'd be a psycho. Anyway thanks for the info. Stay strong fam
My clinic has like 2000 people and we used to have to wait for like 2 hours bc the line would wrap around the building now its better but run by Acadia and they are coprate dick noses!
Please everyone interested in the rape of the disease of addiction by corporate entities, track down the documentary The Business of Recovery. Not about MAT but pulls the curtain back on the bullshit industry as a whole. Thank God, I sincerely mean thank God, that Dr Bob talked Bill W out of monetizing the 12 steps
Was trying to formulate a similar post to this but you completely stole the words of my mouth and said it better than I could. I for one have called
My congressman months ago but you inspired me to again.
we have essentially banned private establishments from making money off methadone clinics, the bottom line for users on state funded program, went from like $120/month down to $7/month.
Write both. If you DM me I’ll give you a letter to send them. In the case of your congressman just Google your town and “who is my congressman?” As far as your senator every state has two so you have two senators. If you find their website they’ll usually have a “contact me” field or a phone number. You can also call them but an email of message through their website is more effective.
Just looked and I didn’t find what you’re looking at. I did find this though.
16. Many are advocating being able to receive methadone from a pharmacy or a provider who is not within an OTP. Does this rule allow for either of these options?
These changes are outside SAMHSA’s regulatory purview, and this rule does not allow for methadone prescribing outside of an OTP for the purpose of treatment of OUD.
Your right if we can just get people to work together it will change and now is the time. I have some exciting news from Virginia I had to sign a form at the clinic that allows us now if we become incarcerated to continue to take our methadone thank God it's a law here now I came off of 390 in a jail and almost died so to me this is a miracle
That's awesome news !! I can't even imagine what that experience was like. At 55mg I feel like shit just missing a day. People say 24 to 72 hours is only psychological. I disagree. Everyone's metabolism is different. 390 though ??? I've never heard that high of a dose. Regardless even at 1mg nobody should get cut off.
I’m on 390 and I can’t imagine detoxing in jail. That’s inhumane.
390? Holy shit how can you even stay awake? At 260 i was a boneless chicken ranch just a a mess. Spent the weekend in jail on that dose and the nurse was amazed at how high of a dose i was at.
lol I relapsed several times on top of already being on a high dose so I guess my tolerance is high enough it doesn’t make me tired anymore.
I am on 330 split,sort of, and it's 6:35p.m. and I feel gross angry,and sweaty.Ive asked my doctor to go up again and she won't and I know it's right for me and I am sick of this,!I can't take a shower because I am too cold and sweaty at this dose to eat or bath,and it's abusive to be on this dose and I have dry mouth too.
I feel you. I feel my dose going away around 3 and it just gets worse until I go to sleep and that’s IF I fall asleep. Sometimes I can’t sleep and I end up dosing in the middle of the night. It’s sucks your doctor is stopping you from going up. Hopefully they will change their mind because it’s a different game than it was ten years ago but some doctors are still going on old info.
Thanks for the post.I am wiping the sweat of my face right now. I hope this week the doctor will change my dose.
You’re welcome and good luck with your dr appointment. Oh yeah I wanna tell you that the hot/cold withdrawal sweat will turn into OMG im always hot sweats the higher you go lol
I really am mad because I get better if I sweat with a dose of methadone and I keep telling the doctor I am still sweating and I am cold and wet and angry and can't take a shower or anything.I mean I hate asking for more but there's no special amount to stop at.
I split my dose into 4-5 doses throughout the day. Have you ever tried that? I wonder if it would help.
I do that in a way because my tongue doesn't like the taste of the methadone.But I still sweat.It's 5 p.m. and I am sweating like crazy.
I hope you don't plan on being in this forever because they won't dose you in a nursing home or replace this with near enough pain medication to help you live with any amount of dignity. Everyone must go through a final detox at some point in their life. think about it. How many people in their 80s or 90s driving to the clinic? You think it's that easy just to get a taxi a couple times a month? Wait till you are in a wheelchair.
Everyone eventually will be in a nursing home? News to me.
I don’t know how old you are but unless you’re close nursing home age I don’t see the point in worrying about “what if’s”. Especially “what if’s” that won’t happen for 40 years. I could die today walking my dog. I’m not stressing about my nursing home days.
In california medicare offers free rides to and from the clinic. My cousin was homeless and too sick to work and they provided him with free rides and free detox care including methodone and eventually suboxone. You all should contact the California administrators and see how they accomplished this. I don't know about continued treatment in Jail though.
I agree 100%. Even up at 110ish, I still feel like absolute hell missing even one day. I have a very fast metabolism. I wish my clinic did split dosing.
If you’ve been in the clinic for 11 years, don’t you have plenty of take homes? Why not just take half your dose in the morning and the other half when you would like to..,?
Nope bc I'm THC positive in an illegal state.
Ahh bummer. The previous state I lived in was also illegal, not even medical, but always allowed THC. I was just curious also bc I’ve heard many people complain about not getting split dosing, yet they have take-homes… thought maybe same situation
That's bullshit get a medical card and fight them .... That's what I did in pa. Fuck that I have back problems and what you want to shove more pharmaceuticals at me... Advocation ppl!!!
I hate how they act like it's harming .... From 230 down to 50 because of the weed...
Agree 110%
It’s true, everyone is so different. I’m a super fast metaboliser (confirmed with genetic testing) and I still get sick between doses while dosing 3 times a day. I’m on a low dose though, currently 9.6mg per day.
It is amazing news. Hopefully it will spread everywhere. Yes 390 was more then I needed. I was going through a divorce and the doc was a good one.
Jesus christ you cold turkeyed 390 while in jail? God damn that must have sucked. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
I did 120 + benzo kick in LA county once. Shit was RUFFFF
In men’s central?! How the hell did you make it through that? That would be torture. Luckily LA county you’ll get out fast by an OR unless it’s the weekend.
They had me in the towers first and then moved me down to central. Unfortunately I was stuck waiting to be extradited to Tulare County for like almost three weeks it was miserable. I almost got one of the doctors to give me Librium by pretending I was an alcoholic but at the last possible second he was like “nah, suffer”. Took three full days to even get booked in. I was so happy when they finally took me back to TC lol. Only good thing was the sheriff’s deputies in LA didn’t want to fuck with charging me for all the pills in my backpack so when I got released in Tulare County I still had a bunch of stuff to get me well. It was a gnarly experience though.
wtf. When was this? Even in Dallas county I was able to get Librium by lying that I was taking alorazolam daily
2013. LA County is absolutely fucked. They do not care what happens to in there. A guy hung himself and died in the mental health cell block while I was there cause the guards weren’t doing their checks. And when they were taking me to central and we were going down these escalators there was a little paisa in front of me who was shaking from DTs BAAAD and his pants were too long and kept getting caught in the escalator and I kept having to hold him upright. The ACLU had just finished installing cameras all over the place because of how many people were getting beat to shit by the guards.
Damn man glad you had something out the door. Luckily Im good now but I remember everyone always said say you drink a fifth everyday and they will give you Librium. Also like the other guy said that time for Men’s Central was crazy. It’s always been dangerous but under Lee Baca at that time it was insane. That was all the years he got in trouble and indicted for in the news if you remember at that time. It was popping off in there. Hope and glad everything is well for you now man
LA County is really fun otherwise huh ? 😉
I’m more of an SF kinda guy tbh
I meant that jail LA County sucks or did in the 90s anyway
lol I know what you meant, was just fuckin around. Yeah it’s a brutal ass place.
It was terrible..and the jail was horrible I made the mistake of telling them. They put me in a concrete room. Hole in floor. No mat . No blanket no anything. I remember telling a guard I was going to die because I hadn't slept in like 16 days and wasn't sure what was real.
That is amazing! I honestly think it would help so many people stabilize as jail/prison mentally tears you apart, and holy fuck. You are better than me I don’t know if I would have made it. I knew how it felt kicking H in jail i can’t imagine 390 of m!
I wanted to die alot...when I wasn't sure I was dieing. It sucked. Hopefully this saves people
How long were you in for? You could make a horror short film from that shit though for real
If I remember right 9 months...and yes if I told u the details of it ..you wouldn't believe it.
Holy Jesus
>came off of 390 in a jail man.... that must have been wild. i came off 120 in jail and it was SO scary. I thought my heart was going to explode. before now (im on 80 now) ive never tapered, but after that experience I deathly afraid not to. 390?? that must have been so bad.
Yes it was unlike anything I have ever survived. I am on 155 now and wish I was not. But hopefully this saves others
Wow! I haven’t heard about this yet in VA. Let us know if you can find any more info on it. Didn’t find much in a google search
Ok I will ask . But they had us sign the forms at the clinic in last couple weeks.
Where I am we have the ability to be medcated if we become incarcerated but only if we are incarcerated in the same county as our clinic is. (Indiana). At least I believe, I may be wrong. Of Virginia allows that throughout the whole state maybe we can eventually convince Indiana to do the same.
I hope we can get this nation wide
Oh my GOD, I assume you have major ptsd from those withdrawals
I do . And I got turned down 4 times . Doc wanted to disable me. It is tuff. People have no idea until it is them. It is so hard to get people to care enough to do anything
I totally feel you, I’m physically disabled and my doctors have been trying to get me into palliative care for MONTHS with no luck. In the meantime im just left to suffer every day, to the point that I’m considering offing myself if they still aren’t helping me a year from now or so. It’s not fuckin worth it.
I understand it is unbelievable...I had 3 doctors?....and social security had a doctor check me...same thing...disabled....the judge said no....I don't understand how when the so called experts give their opinion to the judge on what they should do but then the judge goes against it every time it doesn't make sense. I hope they get you took care of my friend there has to be a way. Just stick it out the good spot will come
I’m so sorry that happened to you! I’m currently in the process of applying for disability, it’s so overwhelming…
It's terrible I really hope yours goes through no problem some do. Just tuff it out.
Thank you so much!! I feel like I’ve been in “crisis mode” nonstop for the past few years, I just… need some peace.
That is immoral af. 390 is high and I'm surprised you made it through that sane, you are pretty strong. In Aus we are fortunate that those things are organised relatively quickly unless you are first day or so in remand. Once you get to gaol, splitting the chicken strips ( strip suboxone) is a big deal here, since it's available and harder than ever to get real drugs. Buggered if I know how they keep it in their mouths without absorption or saliva corruption though, but addicts get smart fast in prison out of necessity. Though my ex did say it was kinda nice having real methadone before they transitioned him down to the govt. mandated suboxone weaning. Wander down for breakfast, get dosed, back to the cell to snooze before art class...it's actually sounding pretty good in these times.
[удалено]
Hopefully it will be that way here. I wish I could move up there with you guys . I believe I'd be happier
I think they may have passed that law in NC. I've seen cops bring in pregnant women who were locked up before, but a few weeks back, I saw a cop bring a guy to my clinic from the next county over all the way to my clinic to dose. I'm guessing he lives in or around my town but was locked up in the other county.
Cool I hope so. We need to stand up. All of us and maybe we could get it like Canada. It seems to be so much better.
Dang. They can’t even get their numbers accurate! Some say there are *three hundred thousand* methadone patients in the United States. Another states as many as *six hundred thousand*. The reason that’s important, it’s going to take large numbers making a huge noise to make the government take notice. **Obviously nobody seems to care how many of us have died from overdoses, especially in the last few years**. Reminds me of the AIDS epidemic in the 80’s. So little done, after all *it’s only those gays dying*! Wasn’t until it started to affect the heterosexual population that anyone took notice. I absolutely think you’re on to something. Not just your morning coffee kicking in! I think if more of us knew exactly what was needed to instigate change, we’d be happy to do so. Calling/writing my congressman today! Thank you for a wonderful post! 💜🌷
A lot of peps on that done
I have always said that going to the methadone clinic was more like going to the probation officer. Most clinics certainly do not have an atmosphere of treatment. It is very punitive. You are right on and I have been saying this for a while as I have been following this Bill in Congress. Unfortunately the United States is dysfunctional right now on multiple levels, I'm just not sure how much attention this bill is going to get at the present time. Washington is toxic. But yes call your congressperson and put the bug in their ear. Get your family to call. What is a plus on our side is both sides of the aisle, Republicans and democrats, seem to be on board with this. I have read that the clinic's lobbying group of course is fighting it, but I really think this bill could pass.
what is the bill..?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/644
Ooh that’s a dank bill
Ime it was worse than being on probation. My probation officer was kinder and more understanding than my COUNCELOR.
Already wrote my senator. He’s actually one of the ones proposing MOTA. All the people in here against picking up at pharmacies because of their bad experiences with Suboxone… well I’ll take my chances. It’s better than being punished over crazy stuff and being forced to revolve your whole life around a damn clinic. There’s plenty of people worldwide relying on pharmacies for their life saving medications. I think it’s ok to throw methadone into the mix!
Good job, please make sure you write your congressman too. I’ve been on Suboxone, picking it up was fine. I mean any hassle pales in comparison with going to a clinic every week. Being able to get methadone from a Dr.’s office would literally be revolutionary for us. It will also expand care to those who need it.
Would probably help the pharmacies out a lot financially. Since they took all the pain killers away im sure they need some help.
I know I’m gonna get downvoted to shit but there are groups who’ve tried what you’re proposing or calling for and for every one where heard of there are 100 with the same cause behind it that you’ve never heard of and never took off. they either takeoff like fire to silk, stall out after a few months/years (BLM/ACAB. They’re still there just no longer making change) and then you have the movements that got too close to the sun (The Civil Right Movement, Anti Vietnam war Movements, Seattle protesting against civil infringements and being kidnapped in the process and dropped off outside the city) and we’re either conventionally or unconventionally disbanded. There are a few more very prime examples I could give for each category but bottom line is the average human sees an addiction as that individuals fault and asking the non addict to pay extra tax dollars to change something that doesn’t affect them isn’t anywhere in this nations health priority, it’s sad, I’d like it to change, but it doesn’t make it more realistic unfortunately. If you’re asking for change in your daily live that you can’t do yourself it usually costs tax dollars somewhere in the chain to change. If it took 7yrs for Insulin to be addressed for its ballooning and what congress deemed costs that were “greed to the highest level”, then I unfortunately don’t have much hope for a country that’s pushing for Suboxone and the implant. This isn’t a personal bash on your post, it’s just from personal knowledge of the interior working of financial habits in government contracted or directed entities like hospitals or law enforcement
Take my upvote, cuz this is absolutely true
What is true? People shouldn’t advocate for bills that will greatly improve their quality of life and keep their fellow cohort alive? I would love to know who’s upvoting these posts. Listen, everyone actually going to a methadone clinic should read the comment that Zeef is responding to bc it shows just the kind of stuff that the lobby, which I guess includes Suboxone makers, busy congresspeople. So don’t call your representative once call them 3 times, then call your senator. If you have a private doctor or therapist as many of us do ask them to call their congressperson, or write a letter with them that they can forward. Then wait a few days and do the same thing. We need to stress that people are dying of a rate that is catastrophic and if they don’t vote for this bill, not only ourselves, but every family member we have will never vote for them again. I don’t know about you guys, but what the tax assessor and his upvoter has motivated me to do is tell everyone I see at the clinic on Wed, then Friday, etc… about the bill with information on how they can reach their congressman and a printout of talking points. How dare anyone try to tell you or I not to get politically active in our own lives!! Once again if anyone needs info they can contact me, OP if you read this we should do a similar post every couple of days, but honestly the best thing we can do is talk to our fellow mmtp patients: many of them (us) are beaten down by years of bureaucratic indifference and apathetic so stress the positive: not only will doctors be able to give us care (and they will to people with all sorts of insurance and even maybe via self pay: if you currently pay $12 a day to a clinic you can pay $150 a month to a Dr.) the clinic system will be forced to FIGHT FOR THEIR BUSINESS.
Our congress people don't work for us. They work for whoever has the most money. And that sure as fuck isn't addicts, or anyone advocating for us. I'm not saying it's true because I want it to be. I'm saying it's true, because it's TRUE. Wake up
Okay, man, I know it’s crazy idealistic to think congress wont pass its own bill! Let’s just do nothing and hang our heads in shame and listen to you but first lets do a thought experiment and take a look at the actual objective political forces as they line up in real world current conditions here and let’s all consider the following: 1) an actual living congressman and a longtime sitting senator wrote a bill for the modernizing of opiate addiction treatment the main aim of which is to allow doctors to prescribe methadone. Doctors and prescribers helped them write the bill. 2) There is currently a crisis of fentanyl related deaths unique in human history and all of those dead people have very angry loved ones, not to mention our own loved ones and they can all be our allies. 3) if these pols go against the bill and the current death rate continues unabated unless they’re ready to quit politics and become a methadone clinic lobbyist it’s in their political interests to vote for the bill bc at least they can say they did something about the opiate crisis 4) doctors, which have a big lobby and certain pharmaceutical companies which are no slouches in politicking are also for the bill. 5) the current system makes no sense, is too costly and COVID was proof that all its regulations are unnecessary. 6) the methadone bureaucracy has a lobby but it’s not like we’re up against Raytheon and armament manufacturers or credit card companies or the NRA. 7) your faux-nihilism isn’t real and everyone knows it. “Wake-up.” Yes fellow methadonians wake up and unite you have nothing to lose but your nice counselors and your free thimble of Kool-Aid.
😂😂🤡
Very cogent argument.
Fuck yeah !!! This is the attitude America needs now. With this issue and so many others as the guilty ones throw stones in DC, and on CNN and Fox News. We elected those bastards to represent us. They screwed the hippies, they killed the black panthers, murdered MLK on and on and on they've subverted the will of 'we the people '. Fuck em !!!! We can do this. Reading you post this lyric came to mind " We haven't had that spirit here since 1969" and yes to your ideas. The power of the pen!! We are right on this issue. Time for America to grow the fuck up.
Those aren’t good examples at all bc you are talking about more general social movements, here we have an actual bill already set up for us we just have to try and make as much noise as the methadone lobby. I mean why would you tell people not to take an active role in one of the most important facets of their life with stories about trying to defund the cops? Did you know we’re talking about an actual bill sponsored by a congressman?
Every example I posted was a movement to change a law, policy, or social normalization that was at its core for the betterment of the human race and was shut down, why would a bill for a medication that has an alternative with Sub/Bup that costs less to make, no hub to dispense from, much easier to prescribe, no OD’s. You can take part in it all you want but this bill won’t change the stakes when you have equivalents of 1.8 million per fiscal quarter into an average state funded clinic that can be cut with Suboxone, and as a dual purpose why I added the insulin as an example: unlike methadone there is no alternative and they had a stronger case that they’ll die without the medication and that didn’t do anything for 7yrs. The noise that Diabetics made is still posted on TikTok mainly but other social media platforms about how a bottle that lasted a week costed $700-$900 in 2015 and if people didn’t get that, they died, that never changed the price of insulin or persuaded lobbyists in the pharma industry to move the price line. A methadone addict will live , uncomfortably for a few weeks but they’ll live from switching from Methadone to Suboxone or Bup. Implants as alternatives, a diabetic will not last a week without their insulin cause there is no alternatives and if that wasn’t addressed let alone fixed until ‘22, I have no hope that a bill very similar in askings as the diabetics put forward in their bill is going to gain traction for methadone when Sun/Bup implants are being pushed as the default way forward from opiate/opioid addiction and in the eyes of the congressmen and taxpayers, Methadone can be replaced with a medicine that costs less for a city’s infrastructure and state medical fees with Sub/Bup. So why wouldn’t they take that option, your congressman who also listens to the 9.5/10 other constituents calls who aren’t on methadone asking why they’re being taxed more for a methadone clinic’s fees are something they have to consider too if they wanna stay in office. If you were forced between cold Turkey and 8-32mg’s of Subs what would you choose? This is most likely the argument the bill will come down to from the opposition.
Ok, I’m having a really hard time following your line of thought. I think it’s gross to tell people they shouldn’t be vocal about something that affects their lives. 1) The civil rights act passed in 1964. Defunding the police is hardly “for the betterment of the human race.” There was never a bill introduced to congress for BLM/ACAB whatever that is. 2) Methadone is just as cheap as bupe, maybe more so. The taxpayers don’t pay for it unless the patient has Medicaid in which case doctors will actually cost much less because it will be one visit rather than up to 30 a month. The clinics will not be a monopoly and the clinics will be forced to drop their rates to compete. 3) Calling your representative or writing them takes 5 minutes. In another comment Ive posted a template for a letter so people don’t have to write their own. 4) 110,000 people died of ODs last year, an extraordinary tragedy but also a bleak assessment of the current state of opiate treatment and politicians jobs are on the line to do something about it. 4) If they block this no brainer of a bill people like me will let everyone in their community know that they have blood on their hands for not increasing access to the single most effective treatment for OUD. 5) Then there’s the fact that no other medical treatment exists where the experience like a trip to a probation officer. Every other medication is prescribed their medicine by a doctor and people on methadone have the same right and must loudly demand it. Another good reason why politicians if educated correctly will ignore the methadone clinic lobby lies like the ridiculous tax argument you mentioned which is actually an inversion of the truth. 6) The cats out of the bag, a congressman called the clinic monopoly a “cartel” so they will fall, it’s only a matter of time.
You're 100% correct! Methadone is cheaper than buprenorphine. I used to have a pain management doctor prescribed me 300 tablets a month, 100 mg a day, and the prescription at Walgreens was less than $50. And that is a for-profit pharmacy! Methadone is dirt cheap. These clinics are literally purchasing it by the gallons, it is pocket change for them to dose you. I don't see any politicians blocking this as a matter of fact I see them using it in their campaigns to loudly proclaim that they voted for it!
Hopefully they agree, but I love the focus on the single aspect of the methadone itself, yes methadone is cheaper. The system that surrounds it is what costs money edit: a pharmacy is already in place for non addicts, yes it costs extra money for staffing for a separate building to dose a specific medication…. Also you wouldn’t call the civil right movement for the better of the human race? Go say that to a black dudes face and I’d like to see their reaction. The fact that you don’t know what the movements that I named are isn’t surprising but maybe don’t use those things instead of shilling them for your cause… Have you checked the statistics for paid to unpaid patient ratios? When I last checked it was something like 80% are covered by the state on the coasts, that’s 20% of the funds paid for by the actual patients in about 1/3rd of the population of patients, and 80% taken from…taxes. You can keep bringing up all these points too but the reality is this is not a priority to the American healthy system, it’s not a subjective statement dude…and if it does pass watch about every state who opposed the bill to start some harsh and extremely targeted laws.
110,000 people died last year of Fentanyl, people care now. If you’re saying the clinic system needs to be replaced by a less costly model, ie a doctor yeah sure I’m fine with that. You know what really costs money, untreated addiction and jails? And the stat you cite is worthless because very few, almost none as far as I can see MMTP clinics accept private insurance which is part of their grift and something I’ll have to mention in my next letter to my congressman. And if Medicaid pays that’s what it’s supposed to do. As I said the civil rights act was passed in 1964, I don’t know what particular legislation you’re talking about (the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.) You know who doesn’t have civil rights, methadone patients and you’re telling them that congress is too busy dealing with what Trans people are using or not using women’s bathrooms to deal with twice as many dead people as the Vietnam war just last year. Yes I can keep citing facts and you can keep jabbering nonsense interspersed with information from the clinic lobby. But I’ve made my point, I think you should continue to make yours though, it’s been very revealing of what type of character we’re up against.
So let’s boil it down to this. When a fentanyl user decides to fall into their disease, did society shove that syringe in their arm/chest/leg/neck? No. So explain why that person should have to pay for your medicine that you need cause you decided to get hooked on a drug and if you chose to get off it you’ll live through the withdrawls. You can cite points all day long but agiain, you don’t have the funds to support the American opioid addiction, why would you ask a government that goes into debt ~150billion quarterly to support this over say…a profitable industry? Just in a simple paragraph, why should my children’s taxes be raised because of your fuck up? - average taxpayer. Again dude. I’ve lived through enough of these debacles thru the 90’s about countless healthcare issues and 30yrs ra later the only thing that forced medical change (better or worse) was COVID.
I’m sorry you’re not worth arguing with, I’m not asking for the government to pay for anything just to let me be prescribed methadone at a doctor’s office that I will in turn pay for. Get it now? You’re actually quite obtuse as I’ve said that innumerable times. Do you even know what this bill is about? I would like to add that you heavily imply that you've worked in the health-care sector for, even, heaven forfend, addiction medicine, for 30 years. Do you? Because if you do its not fair to the patients you're around.
Oh no. Your a caffeine addict now! You need help!
Agreed!! I’m constantly ranting to my fiancé and counselor (who is amazing. Like a true gem) about ALL of this. And my counselor agrees and passes along this kind of feedback to management. She’s been nothing but supportive of my recovery, listens, is kind, remembers everything I tell her and constantly goes to bat for me. I was one of those people who used fent for the first three years I was at my clinic. I joined like 6 weeks before Covid and was excited and motivated and then Covid hit & the desire for recovery faded into the background. But after getting shuffled around a few counselors, she was new and I feel so damn lucky to be part of her caseload. From out very first talk, she understood me, no judgement and said I sounded like I truly was ready to quit and that having that mindset is one of the most difficult hurdles to overcome. But basically, her belief in me without knowing me, helped tremendously and I quit using fent within a month after that. Haven’t relapsed yet and it’s been almost 11 months. Anyway, quit in early May of 2023 and had a weekend trip planned in the beginning of August with my mom to do some conservation work (we had been applying to this particular project for years and finally got a spot!). My family doesn’t know about my almost decade long addiction, nor the clinic. And we were going to be in a national forest so there was no chance of guest dosing. Anyway, it took 5 weeks for the fent to leave my system. And then as soon as it did, the UA staff member (who is a miserable human and I truly believes wants us all to fail in life) was pulling shady shit. Mine and my partners screens were showing dirty for fent every other week. And she pushed to get each test sent to the real lab and lo & behold, clean each time. Anyway, she went to bat to get me my first phase and the exemption so I could go on this life changing trip. But had she just been an average counselor, I would have been so screwed. And treated like a lying, dirty asshole. And I love to travel and spend time with my family. Those things are crucial to my recovery and my fucking soul. Yet the clinic model makes it nearly impossible to do those things. I’m also at a clinic that won’t give take homes for THC so basically no one has take homes. And I believe my state only allows 6-7 days total anyway and you have to have clean UA’s for 2 years… So yeah, fuck the clinic system. I’ve thankfully avoided jail, probation, bail monitoring, all that fun stuff and I still feel pissed off that there’s a million cameras watching me piss every week. And I know it’s triggering as fuck for a lot of people who have been in the system. Punitive punishment has no place in medicine. I’m okay with the clinic model if there were major major changes. And going back to the root purpose of the clinic which is HARM REDUCTION!!
>I’m also at a clinic that won’t give take homes for THC Same in my state. I don't smoke anymore but I think that rule is fucking ridiculous.
Don’t kill me lol but my clinic is so amazing. I think it’s also that. Where you go. I haven’t been going 4 months and I already only go once a week. When I go I am treated very kind and it’s not made to feel like a probation office. They even have snacks and drinks for us there. I think more clinics need funding and the right staff, it makes a whole world of difference. Don’t get me wrong OP I agree with u and totally support you, but I promise they are good ones out there .
snacks and drinks..? my clinic wont even let us bring in a bottle of water for fear that the feeble mush minds will spill them
Mine make pancakes fresh on a griddle in the waiting room for us in the morning and also spaghetti plates sometimes, has “carnival” days where they have a popcorn machine and assorted snacks you get a ticket to win a free dosing day. They did just raise prices to $12 a day, but not bad!
Oh wow, that’s crazy cool! They’re super kind for that
For sure! I always take a plate of food, they also give us cherry koolaid foil drink things lol. I always see people turning down the free food that they make in front of us, and I am thinking gah I have learned to NEVER to down a free meal in my lifetime, a free meal is a free meal
Right! Like idk why they would decline unless they’re having stomach issues or something 🤔 and oooh I love Koolaid lol they give us Koolaid with our dose to help with the nasty ass taste 🤢 and they actually make it well lmao unlike some people who put little to no sugar in it 😂
Yeah I always take it even though I don’t eat breakfast, I just eat it later for lunch or give it to my wife lol. Wow they do the same thing here at the window! Either kool aid or water, I always pick water though idk why lol I guess I just like seeing the cup clean and seeing a little red left in the cup trips me out idk lol
Well given the pancakes and Koolaid we should just forget about wanting to be treated by DRs office.
I never said that 🙄🙄🤦🏽♀️ I literally just said that it’s kind of them to do that and that I personally wouldn’t decline the food lmfao get that stick out your ass please k thanks 😊
🙄
The no drinks rule at my clinic is so there's no chance of someone dosing and then spitting it into the drink and selling/sharing/giving it to someone else. Idk if that's the reason for the rule everywhere but when they told me that (because i complained because WTF???) it made a bit more sense from their perspective.
What the hell again, no water bottle? I imagine this is once again one of those rules that came up when nurses and counsellors gathered around the table and every single one of them wanted to leave their mark on the document of the meeting. When every even remotely sane and reasonable regulation was already written down, still someone important just had to come up with their own rule: - hmmm, what else could we regulate, everything is taken already... What about if we prohibit water bottles!! - great idea, Susan, it is done now. Well that is all for today ladies, oh one more thing... don't forget to zoom on genitals when you're monitoring urine samples!
There are good ones, unfortunately the majority are not. I'm right there with you. My clinic is good and treats me decent. It's still outdated and backwards for profit model. I'm 100% with calling or writing our congress people.
My clinic is a joy, honestly as well. They don't do callbacks. They test for weed but don't care. We aren't forced to go to groups to earn takehomes because most of us have good jobs, and the majority do have codes. I am prescribed clonazepam by my clinic doc, which is another unheard of thing in treatment, although I have proven I can take it as prescribed or less for over 10 years so that helps. There's definitely not too many of us that receive benzos though
Great about your clinic! So the bill should be passed and you can stay at your amazing clinic and those of us who want to be treated by a doctor in an office can do that too! Competition with private prescribers will only make the clinics even BETTER.
Totally agree 👍👍💯
Sounds perfect!!!!!!
I enjoy the clinic I go to the for the most part. OP is right. The clinic model is old and outdated. I feel like if the core concept is treatment than take homes should be more attainable. The more you are able to be in the community and have a job and a life the more I feel people will be able to get better and stable quicker. Of course there is always bad apples that will ruin it for everyone but I think most people who go to the clinic go because they want to stop using drugs and better their life. People with the disease of diabetes take insulin everyday. We have the disease of addiction and take methadone everyday. #endthestigma!!
The sad truth is that many clinics employ people ( doctors, clinical directors, etc. ) that while qualified would much rather be working somewhere else. This commonly manifests in shitty treatment and even unethical practices. For example what kind of health care facility can demand clients to report within 24 to 48 hours but only keep its doors open until 2pm ? I'm not saying that's unreasonable but for the amount of money they make off a very inexpensive medication they should be patient focused. Again remember the hypocratic oath all physicians swear to follow " to do no harm ". Cutting off someone from medication is unethical and does cause harm. Withdrawal is hell and forces most of us back to the streets and life we worked so hard to get away from. I don't understand how making this medication available at pharmacies would cost the taxpayer money
Thank you for this!! I’lll definitely call my congressperson and have my family call too! We are all FED UP. Can we post something like this every week, Mondays are great cuz that gives people a whole week to call and/or write to their congressperson’s. We need to stay on top of this if we want this to work.
I wish I could relate to you but here in Australia, we have a very good system for opiate replacement. I go to a public clinic and I'm on the Buvidol monthly injection and I go there once a month and get taken to a room and they give me the shot and I say thank you very much and I go about my life. My clinic treats all their clients with absolute dignity and respect. It's the users that are disgraceful towards staff who are trying their best. They are so self entitled and expect to be dosed within 30 seconds of being there. They stand there banging on the door telling staff to hurry the fuck up even though their Methadone is free. They have nothing to be upset about. Some people are so disgusting the way they behave. I completely understand why alot of medical workers hate dealing with addicts and I don't blame them sometimes
it's the same here, it just depends on the clinic. I go in twice a month for 10 minutes and pick up my methadone. sadly the max where I go is two weeks. addicts are exactly like any other group of people. some are horrible and some are fine. anyone who works in a customer facing job will tell you that the general public sucks. it isn't unique to addicts.
Methadone doesn’t work if the junk is cut with benzos or xylazine or any of these crazy new “designer opiates”. People addicted to fentanyl are already going to need more than 2-3 times what a regular heroin addict would need for the methadone to even do it’s job. The United States needs to legalize heroin or at least heroin clinics like 8 other countries (including Canada) have done. The science shows that legal, clean, supply of drugs is much more effective in treating Opioid Addiction than methadone or suboxone. Even if the United States started a program like safe supply in Canada, people could at least get off of street drugs that are cut with who knows what, and switch to safe, pharmaceutical grade opiates like oxymorphone or morphine. Countries have been doing these programs for years and all the statistics show greater program retention rates, lower crime, less disease spreading, as well as a more functional citizen. Seeing as most of the time spent by addicts is either waiting for drugs, or trying to obtain money for drugs, with a safe supply and a doctor’s supervision, an addict can actually start to address the root of their addiction and begin to move forward in life. This is a fact and anyone involved in these types of programs will attest to that fact. Let’s stop punishing addicts and forcing them to continue to play Russian roulette with street drugs. I think it’s obvious to everyone that making a substance illegal does nothing to curb its use. You would think they would have learned that from the prohibition smh.
The problem with that is that you can't truly be functional because you can't have a job if you're at a heroin clinic inhecting 3x a day. That's been the problem with the ones in Canada patients have said. I do think that people that test positive for fentanyl should be fast tracked to a higher dose.
There are basically 2 options- companies owning clinics or the government. Pick your poison, you know? It's illegal for a doctor to rx it for more than 3 days for OUD (even in the hospital) unless you are lined up for a methadone clinic next. I know they've passed legislation this this last year so that mobile vans can dose people who live a certain distance from a clinic. Jails are supposed to continue your methadone treatment too now, but I don't know if it's actually happening. If I was sentenced to jail time I know I would find out before turning myself in and if they're not I'd speak to the judge about it and try to get put somewhere else or get house arrest with permission to do the clinic.
It should be like suboxone. Get your monthly supply at a pharmacy. No middle man.
I pay 410 a month because I go to a different county. It's a joke really but I pay it because I earned my take homes and they'll take them away and I'll have to drive every day 45 minutes back and forth. Oh and I work nights.
That's bullshit. How far away was the dope man ? Bullshit medicine. That's so fucking unethical
They won't increase my take-homes either because I have a balance...lol
You make a good point. Unfortunately I think our voices would be way more powerful if many of us were able to get off of methadone and then do the things you are talking about. I feel like we won’t be taken as serious until then. Also, you are right about the greed part of those who run the clinic. I once was in a Suboxone program and the counselor I saw for that really pushed me to get off of it and in to NA. Here at this clinic however, I have been going 10 + years and have never had anything that would resemble a push or even a suggestion to go down in my dose. I have always been the one to initiate that conversation and I never end up starting a taper. I know it’s my responsibility, but I can just tell I could take it for life and they would be fine with that.
That's bc these clinics are run by doctors not addicts. Sounds crazy but 90% of doctors know nothing about addiction except statistics. Statistics are useless. Addicts are incredibly unreliable in regards to self reporting which is what most of these statistics are based on. The NA counselor knew what you should do because he was someone with an answer
as an australian, where recent changes have made it start to feel more humanising, i encourage y'all to seek higher treatment or like op says write in
Thanks. Hope the changes 'down under' inspire us. Y'all have a beautiful country. Thank you for the support.
Put also your family to call. Your friends. Everyone that know you and they don't watch at you like a number or a statistic. Very good post OP. It was time someone to talk about this. A lot of people blame the methadone not the clinics that should work w/ methadone to make you better. I pray to God that you guys will do a change. You deserve it!
This!
I love my facility
Wow! That’s amazing, but you should still advocate for MOTAA so that your fellow addicts can go to a Dr. if they prefer and more importantly there’s more individualized treatment and more treatment in general for those who want it.
Well I find this sort of amusing because while I do agree with some of the provisions in the bill that need to be passed, I disagree with others But you don't have the authority to tell everyone what to do either And without proof, some of the things that you have said come across like conspiracy theory
[MODERNIZING OPIOID TREATMENT ACCESS ACT !](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/644) [https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/644](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/644) Call your congressperson and Senator! Help move this bill along!
It seems to me the MOTAA bill is currently stalled but I don’t know. We need to make a lot of noise. It was introduced by Connecticut congressman Ed Markey and is officially designated as MOTAA s. 644 (Modernization Opiate Treatment Accessibility Act.) Contact your representative and senator! Here’s the gist of something I wrote my congressman, feel free to use any of it. *** As a registered [insert political party or that you’re “independent.”] who has lived in your district for [x amount of time] I am writing with urgency about the proposed legislation for opiate treatment modernization commonly known as MOTAA (S. 644) (co-sponsored by Sen. Ed Markey (D-CT) and Rand Paul (R-KY).) Thorough reform of this system is long overdue. Its modality is unique among medical treatments, as it bears striking similarity to probation—or even parole. This despite the fact that methadone patients are at the clinic voluntarily and have not been convicted of so much as a parking violation. The current monopoly enjoyed by a system which your colleague, Don Norcross (D-NJ,) says “operates like cartels” would be opened up by the bill, allowing opiate addicted patients to be prescribed their life-saving medication in the privacy of a private doctor’s office. Most importantly though this bill would drastically increase access to methadone maintenance during a tragic epidemic, which last year killed over 100,000 people from overdose, an extraordinarily large number. Highly respected advocacy groups like the American Society of Addiction Medicine and Faces and Voices of Recovery strongly support this bill. Unsurprisingly, however, the methadone clinic system has a powerful lobby on Capitol Hill and are, as I write, using misinformation, scaremongering and astro-turfing campaign to block this life saving bill. Such politicking is always cynical in the realm of medicine. But in the face of a lethal fentanyl epidemic that has no end in sight it is shameful. Please use your influence to push forward, and vote for, this life-saving bill.
It’s free here in Sweden, 🇸🇪 love it.
I'm glad to hear that. I've been told recently that it's in Ohio, which I'm in Northeast, but I only know of one county jail that kept you dosing. I'm gonna look into tho. Cuz that's insane. I'm on 170, I could not imagine kickin at over 3 stone. That's murder bro. Might as a well tooth pick the urethra and cauterize your butthole shut. I'd be a psycho. Anyway thanks for the info. Stay strong fam
My clinic has like 2000 people and we used to have to wait for like 2 hours bc the line would wrap around the building now its better but run by Acadia and they are coprate dick noses!
Please everyone interested in the rape of the disease of addiction by corporate entities, track down the documentary The Business of Recovery. Not about MAT but pulls the curtain back on the bullshit industry as a whole. Thank God, I sincerely mean thank God, that Dr Bob talked Bill W out of monetizing the 12 steps
Was trying to formulate a similar post to this but you completely stole the words of my mouth and said it better than I could. I for one have called My congressman months ago but you inspired me to again.
we have essentially banned private establishments from making money off methadone clinics, the bottom line for users on state funded program, went from like $120/month down to $7/month.
How can we advocate for changes? Do you have any resources to get us started?
Agreed. I’m just really getting into politics and how can we find our congress representative? Would it be the senator or the members of the house?
Write both. If you DM me I’ll give you a letter to send them. In the case of your congressman just Google your town and “who is my congressman?” As far as your senator every state has two so you have two senators. If you find their website they’ll usually have a “contact me” field or a phone number. You can also call them but an email of message through their website is more effective.
Thank you, appreciate your help!
You tell them to stop we still going to be doing methadone and this thing is still going to get Ate from da back
No idea what that means
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Just looked and I didn’t find what you’re looking at. I did find this though. 16. Many are advocating being able to receive methadone from a pharmacy or a provider who is not within an OTP. Does this rule allow for either of these options? These changes are outside SAMHSA’s regulatory purview, and this rule does not allow for methadone prescribing outside of an OTP for the purpose of treatment of OUD.