The "Muskegon-Bay City line" roughly corresponds to the ecological tension zone that crosses Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan, dividing the forested northern parts of each state from the agricultural and urban southern parts. 90+ percent of Michigan's population lives south of this line. It's also fairly obvious when you cross it heading north on any of the highways that go up north.
So, from a cultural, economic, demographic, and ecological standpoint, this is where Northern Michigan (Up North) begins.
I would also argue that the UP is the UP - not "Northern Michigan" but its own thing altogether that isn't bound by our primitive notion of North.
This is honestly the most accurate take on this that I've seen. Grew up in southeast mi and now reside in the northwest end of the lower peninsula. That line is about where we always designated being "up north"
The western city limits of Big Rapids are 2 miles from the Manistee National Forest. We got stuck in the mud out by Hungerford Lake one time and it took us an hour to walk out to the nearest house to use their phone to call for help.
Grew up in grand rapids and now live in the northern lower peninsula, i always called where on 131 around Cadillac it turns to a 2 lane from a 4 lane highway the divider. and roughly the same area on 127/75 so Houghton Lake and West Branch roughly being the line across the state. But i count the U.P. as part of northern MI as well unlike OP.
Everything from GR up to that point is mid Michigan and everything south of GR is southern MI to me. Id say 55 Is the divider line between mid and northern MI. It goes from Tawas to Manistee more or less and is sort of wavy but works good enough. Look at most maps of MI and Cut lansing in half and thats like the divider for the mid to lower part IMO as theres no good road/highway to follow across down that way anywhere really.
If your driving north to south or vice versa across the state you should go up or down like 15 degrees in temp during your drive, so for example where i live up near the bridge it would be like 10 degrees cooler than down near most my family in GR but down near the southern boarder of MI it would be like 15 degrees cooler (i also have family at the northern end of Indianna and can call and confirm this anytime pretty much). So every 5 degrees differences is roughly where i call a line with the next one likely being around the northern Canadian Boarder which i cant say i go to often nor know anyone who lives near it to check that one.
This is a phenomenal explanation and one that I came to realize when I learned about the “floristic tension zone” in my botany class at Umich. Above this ecological line you see northern mixed forests (hardwoods plus conifers) and south of this line you get broadleaf forest (lots of oak and hickory dominated forest). This has a lot to do with the differences in soil composition which determines which tree species thrive there. But before I learned this I always knew I saw a vegetative shift when I went “up north” growing up. I grew up in Big Rapids which is 15 minutes south of US-10. Whenever I drive northbound 131 and got past US-10 (Reed City in my case) you can see a dramatic shift in scenery. You see a lot more coniferous forest and the landscape becomes much hillier as well giving you great scenery as you drive! Long story short, I like to say that you “transition” between southern and northern Michigan between Big Rapids and US-10!
Yep, the needles of evergreen trees are pretty acidic and millennia of boreal forest growth basically bleached out a lot of the topsoil up north. In lots of places the soil looks gray (almost like ashes) near the surface for this reason. It's not great for agriculture.
Absolutely. We also had significant amounts of prairie and savanna in pre-settlement times. I personally draw the "up north" line where the balsam fir begin.
That’s what I thought, too. My imaginary line was more horizontal, though.
Having said that, there also seems to be a shift in culture. I know Traverse City is an urban area, but outside of that pretty much everything seems to be a small town or slightly larger.
This is always what I considered to be the dividing line as well. One only needs to look at satellite imagery of Michigan to see that there is quite a shift in population density and ecology once north of this line.
Yeah the UP is its own beast for sure. IMO “Up north” is north of where you sleep but the tri cities are the last vestige of civilization in Michigan so that’s where it officially begins
I agree with this so much. I’ve lived in the Tri-Cities for a while now and when people think of me as living “up north” I find it laughable. The three counties are just shy of 400,000 people and I find we have more in common with the rest of southern Michigan.
Less than an hour north of here, though, there’s a definite shift in terrain and culture. Then it feels “up north”.
I must learn more about this “ecological tension zone” across my 3 most familiar states. I’d be curious to see how it lines up (or doesn’t) with Wisconsinan glacial maxima.
This is how I've always looked at it. As soon as you cross that very sudden transition on I-75 from flat farm fields to rolling hilly forest, that's up north. Crossing the bridge, that's the UP.
Source: Grew up up north and lived in the UP.
I respect your methodology, but the eastern terminus of that line is in Arenac County nearer to Standish or Au Gres than Bay City, which is 35-40 miles to the south.
US-10 was always ours too (more specifically, Up North always started at Ludington). Pretty close although it misses the southern part of the Manistee National Forest. That area between Baldwin and White Cloud is pretty up-northy.
Yeah, I should have added that our perspective was from the east side of the state. Now that I live on the west side it starts to feel a little up-north-y near Rockford and converts to full Up North by the White Cloud exit on 131.
I grew up in Grosse Pointe, and we considered the Zilwaukee bridge the beginning of Up North, but only because it's the biggest landmark on 75 on the LP. From my standpoint back then, US-10 would be a reasonable start.
Now that I live in Frankenmuth, we consider the exit for US-23 to Standish as the beginning of Up North, for traffic reasons.
In a vacation rush, traffic on 75 gets worse until the worst part around the tri cities, and it *rapidly* improves after Standish, as that's where people exit for the Northern Huron coast.
Coming back, traffic steadily gets vaguely busier until Standish, where it goes nuts, and starts diminishing again after the Tri Cities.
Coming from someone who grew up in Manistee county. Northern Michigan is anything north of White Hall.
As all the traffic on 31 disappears after you pass it. Unless it’s summer.
Thank you! It’s about the vegetation. I’ve always thought it was funny this was such a debate because you can literally see where “Up North” starts by looking at the trees, and it’s not subtle
Most takes are reasonable, as long as we can all agree that people who say "up north means the UP" are 100%, unequivocally wrong
The UP is it's own damn thing!
"Up North" means within the Lower Peninsula
I will die on this hill
This is probably the most agreeable answer to the question of where up north starts that I’ve ever seen. Everyone is never going to be in full agreement, but I feel like this is a very reasonable answer.
This is also a major fire line that I found interesting. The fifth national climate assessment put out last year shows greatly increased fire risks for northern MI in the near future (~10-20yrs)that run right along that line. We'll have similar increased fire risk to Minnesota and Wisconsin for northern MI. Guess the great lakes can only shield us so much.
Much of the soil up there is either glacial till or sand, and thus not great for holding water a long time. Pair that with lots more conifers, and Jack pines in particular (which are sexually attracted to fire), and it can make for a bigger fire threat than south of the line.
It looks like they masked all park areas as "non-agricultural" and most of Mackinac is state park. But yeah, there should be at least a couple purple pixels at the south end.
”… The climate, soils and cover types begin to change north of a line from Muskegon to just north of Bay City. This line marks a transition or ’[tension zone](https://www2.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners_Guide/Introduction/Glossary.htm#Tension%20Zone)’ that separates the Lower Peninsula into north and south ecosystems.“ [https://www2.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners\_Guide/Introduction/Ecosystems.htm](https://www2.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners_Guide/Introduction/Ecosystems.htm)
In terms of making "Up North" an objective line drawn on a map, this is pretty much the right line to draw, where agricultural land gives way to forests, my personal point that I used to establish a geographical "Up North" was the bridge over the Muskegon river on M-37 in Newaygo, which this line pretty much lines up with that point.
Though as I get older I'm more of the opinion that "Up North" is more a state of mind, when you are in that mindset of getting away from it all and relaxing and enjoying the great outdoor spaces this state has to offer, it doesn't matter much which side of this line you physically are on when you are in that mindset, you are "Up North"
Place your hand in front of you with your palm side up - like you're asking for money. Move your 4 (non-thumb fingers) towards you like you're saying "come here." The fold across your hand is the "up north line in Michigan."
To me it's always meant Mackinac and up, but thats probably just because in my family any time we went "up north" for family trips it always involved crossing the bridge
That little chunk of green just above your red line on the west side, I think it should be a bit higher. On the lakeshore of Lake Michigan, that bit of purple in that last little chunk of green is Ludington, which is where US 31 becomes a 2-lane road. Also, civilization seems to drop of dramatically north of there.
All "up north" arguing aside, I think the Portage Canal, Portage Lake, and Torch Lake should be blue. Otherwise, I like the data driven format for this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keweenaw_Waterway
I live outside of West Branch. A few years ago they were looking for a new marketing slogan. I thought it should be “Gateway to the North.” But they went with, “Where the city meets the country.” Not sure what city they are talking about, but ok? West Branch certainly doesn’t qualify.
As someone who lives around the Detroit area any place that I gotta head north for 2 or more hours is considered Up North to me. Rosebush? Up North. Harrison? Up North. Traverse City? Up North. Tawas? Up North. I'd even consider Grand Rapids Up North.
This is exactly where my family draws the line too. Not coincidentally, the bottom chunk of the state underneath it is also the "easiest winter" portion of the snow lines. There's another line/snow line running parallel. But almost near the tip of the southern peninsula. That's "first north" and "medium winter" between those lines. Above the second line, "True Up North" and also "toughest winter".
That's how my entire family divides up the state. Three chunks.
That doesn’t really track for me. You’re including parts of the Huron coast that absolutely are considered up north.
You know what we need? We need to draw a line for where grocery stores that aren’t Walmart or Meijer begin to become “yellow” or have stained wood as part of the interior.
North of the red line the state has more hills and forest, and south of it, it is almost totally flat and farmland.
On a warm summer night you can smell the line. The air quality is a lot better north of the line.
I love this.
Looking at history, this line and north is roughly where pine country was located that caused the lumbering industry to thrive in Michigan. Namely the cities of Saginaw, Bay City, and Muskegon and several smaller towns.
OP is treating this as if it’s their baby or something.
When you find yourself not surrounded by concrete or farms and instead find yourself surrounded by trees, you’ve made it.
From a plane you can see a hard line where the southern agricultural land ends and the north woods begins. In June at least everything looks lush and green south of the line and everything looks browner and less green north of that line. It’s where glacial till abruptly meets rich soil.
I don’t care up north is the up… never head someone say they went up north and mean anywhere but the UP and when they go to traverse city or even mackinaw they don’t say that…
Calling muskegon "up north" is just trolling. It's three hours from Chicago and Detroit. We have an airport. Grand rapids is 30 miles east and you can take the train from there. We're not in the sticks.
I wouldn't call the city of Muskegon up north, but could see a valid argument that anything north of apple Ave or even north of Muskegon county is "up north"
Muskegon isn't up north but you get into the woods pretty quickly heading north from Muskegon.
You don't have to be in the sticks to be up north. Duluth is up north, and parts of the UP are within an hour of Green Bay.
As a lifelong resident of northern lower Michigan, I would like to say something nice about southern Michigan…. And for anyone who would like to move here, please don’t.
Two things I learned since moving to Michigan in 2007:
How to use my hand to point out where in Michigan one lives.
"Up North" is anywhere north of where you are at the time. If you are in White Pigeon, Kalamazoo is "up north!"
😛
Nah. Anywhere north is just "up" but that's different than up north. If you're in white pigeon you'd say you're going "up to kalamazoo" but you wouldn't normally call kalamazoo "up north".
Same thing with places south of you. If you live in Marquette you might say you're going down to escanaba but you wouldn't call it "down south" or "down state".
I can’t think of anything as unimportant as this discussion that irritates me as much as this discussion.
Everyone’s definition of Up North is sixty to ninety miles north of where they live.
The UP is not northern Michigan.
The UP is the UP. If I’m going over the bridge I tell people I’m going UP.
If I’m going north of Muskegon I say I’m going to northern Michigan.
Far different designations.
Up north is a state of mind.
Northern Michigan is the top third of the whole state.
Central Michigan is the middle third of the whole state.
Southern Michigan is the lower third of the whole state.
Geographically speaking. Up north consists of the area “above” the 45th parallel of the northern hemisphere. And that’s the exact location used to determine up north in Michigan. It’s clear cut. No ifs’ ands’ or buts about it
I wasn’t aware we were allowed to bring facts, science and logic to this argument. It doesn’t seem fair.
Your facts are just your opinion man. My feels trump your fact and science.
🤣🤣🤣
(Sarcastically) well, you can prove anything with facts!
[https://y.yarn.co/828a469d-07ef-4ba5-a53d-f64b8e798144\_text.gif](https://y.yarn.co/828a469d-07ef-4ba5-a53d-f64b8e798144_text.gif)
Yeah but it cuts through West Branch, so I'll accept it anyways.
🤣🤣🤣
I never thought about having the line anything other than strictly East/West.
The "Muskegon-Bay City line" roughly corresponds to the ecological tension zone that crosses Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan, dividing the forested northern parts of each state from the agricultural and urban southern parts. 90+ percent of Michigan's population lives south of this line. It's also fairly obvious when you cross it heading north on any of the highways that go up north. So, from a cultural, economic, demographic, and ecological standpoint, this is where Northern Michigan (Up North) begins. I would also argue that the UP is the UP - not "Northern Michigan" but its own thing altogether that isn't bound by our primitive notion of North.
This is honestly the most accurate take on this that I've seen. Grew up in southeast mi and now reside in the northwest end of the lower peninsula. That line is about where we always designated being "up north"
I grew up in nw Michigan and now live in se Michigan, and yeah, I agree.
I’m same as you, except I disagree. At least with the sw side. Big rapids is not anywhere near up north lol
It’s medium up north to me
People don’t realize there can be a southern, mid, and northern Michigan. (Obviously up is basically it’s own state and therefore called the UP)
The people from down state with vacay homes around Canadian Lakes area definitely think they are “up north”🤣
You lost me at Canadian lakes
The western city limits of Big Rapids are 2 miles from the Manistee National Forest. We got stuck in the mud out by Hungerford Lake one time and it took us an hour to walk out to the nearest house to use their phone to call for help.
Yeah traverse city and mackinaw are still pretty populated.
I grew up in Midland and would always laugh when someone from downstate would refer to us as “up north.” Oh my sweet summer child…
Grew up in grand rapids and now live in the northern lower peninsula, i always called where on 131 around Cadillac it turns to a 2 lane from a 4 lane highway the divider. and roughly the same area on 127/75 so Houghton Lake and West Branch roughly being the line across the state. But i count the U.P. as part of northern MI as well unlike OP. Everything from GR up to that point is mid Michigan and everything south of GR is southern MI to me. Id say 55 Is the divider line between mid and northern MI. It goes from Tawas to Manistee more or less and is sort of wavy but works good enough. Look at most maps of MI and Cut lansing in half and thats like the divider for the mid to lower part IMO as theres no good road/highway to follow across down that way anywhere really. If your driving north to south or vice versa across the state you should go up or down like 15 degrees in temp during your drive, so for example where i live up near the bridge it would be like 10 degrees cooler than down near most my family in GR but down near the southern boarder of MI it would be like 15 degrees cooler (i also have family at the northern end of Indianna and can call and confirm this anytime pretty much). So every 5 degrees differences is roughly where i call a line with the next one likely being around the northern Canadian Boarder which i cant say i go to often nor know anyone who lives near it to check that one.
Wait till this dude hears about having weather on your phone
This is a phenomenal explanation and one that I came to realize when I learned about the “floristic tension zone” in my botany class at Umich. Above this ecological line you see northern mixed forests (hardwoods plus conifers) and south of this line you get broadleaf forest (lots of oak and hickory dominated forest). This has a lot to do with the differences in soil composition which determines which tree species thrive there. But before I learned this I always knew I saw a vegetative shift when I went “up north” growing up. I grew up in Big Rapids which is 15 minutes south of US-10. Whenever I drive northbound 131 and got past US-10 (Reed City in my case) you can see a dramatic shift in scenery. You see a lot more coniferous forest and the landscape becomes much hillier as well giving you great scenery as you drive! Long story short, I like to say that you “transition” between southern and northern Michigan between Big Rapids and US-10!
Yep, the needles of evergreen trees are pretty acidic and millennia of boreal forest growth basically bleached out a lot of the topsoil up north. In lots of places the soil looks gray (almost like ashes) near the surface for this reason. It's not great for agriculture.
Absolutely. We also had significant amounts of prairie and savanna in pre-settlement times. I personally draw the "up north" line where the balsam fir begin.
You know, in my head, the dividing line was always the Zilwauke bridge. It looks like I was pretty spot on!
That’s what I thought, too. My imaginary line was more horizontal, though. Having said that, there also seems to be a shift in culture. I know Traverse City is an urban area, but outside of that pretty much everything seems to be a small town or slightly larger.
Muskegon -Bay County*
This is always what I considered to be the dividing line as well. One only needs to look at satellite imagery of Michigan to see that there is quite a shift in population density and ecology once north of this line.
I've always made the distinction of "northern Michigan" vs "Upper Michigan" for this reason (your last point)
Yeah the UP is its own beast for sure. IMO “Up north” is north of where you sleep but the tri cities are the last vestige of civilization in Michigan so that’s where it officially begins
I agree with this so much. I’ve lived in the Tri-Cities for a while now and when people think of me as living “up north” I find it laughable. The three counties are just shy of 400,000 people and I find we have more in common with the rest of southern Michigan. Less than an hour north of here, though, there’s a definite shift in terrain and culture. Then it feels “up north”.
I must learn more about this “ecological tension zone” across my 3 most familiar states. I’d be curious to see how it lines up (or doesn’t) with Wisconsinan glacial maxima.
That’s because when asked you just say it’s up.
I learned something new today!
This is how I've always looked at it. As soon as you cross that very sudden transition on I-75 from flat farm fields to rolling hilly forest, that's up north. Crossing the bridge, that's the UP. Source: Grew up up north and lived in the UP.
I respect your methodology, but the eastern terminus of that line is in Arenac County nearer to Standish or Au Gres than Bay City, which is 35-40 miles to the south.
My family’s cultural perspective is that Up North begins north of US-10, which is roughly equivalent to this line.
US-10 was always ours too (more specifically, Up North always started at Ludington). Pretty close although it misses the southern part of the Manistee National Forest. That area between Baldwin and White Cloud is pretty up-northy.
Yeah, I should have added that our perspective was from the east side of the state. Now that I live on the west side it starts to feel a little up-north-y near Rockford and converts to full Up North by the White Cloud exit on 131.
I grew up in Grosse Pointe, and we considered the Zilwaukee bridge the beginning of Up North, but only because it's the biggest landmark on 75 on the LP. From my standpoint back then, US-10 would be a reasonable start. Now that I live in Frankenmuth, we consider the exit for US-23 to Standish as the beginning of Up North, for traffic reasons. In a vacation rush, traffic on 75 gets worse until the worst part around the tri cities, and it *rapidly* improves after Standish, as that's where people exit for the Northern Huron coast. Coming back, traffic steadily gets vaguely busier until Standish, where it goes nuts, and starts diminishing again after the Tri Cities.
A2 kid here, and yeah for me it was always the Zilwaukee. For my friend who grew up in Flint it was Standish, so interesting parallel here!
Oh, that pattern doesn't end there. I've talk to folks in Wawa Ontario -- they don't consider it Up North until you get past Hearst.
Grew up in Iosco, & my parents always said we were leaving Northern Michigan when we crossed the Zilwaukee, too.
I hate Standish
131 itself feels up-northy as soon as you pass LMCU Ballpark, just because of the way the road is built.
Coming from someone who grew up in Manistee county. Northern Michigan is anything north of White Hall. As all the traffic on 31 disappears after you pass it. Unless it’s summer.
Us to!
I would agree with this delineation
Thank you! It’s about the vegetation. I’ve always thought it was funny this was such a debate because you can literally see where “Up North” starts by looking at the trees, and it’s not subtle
Fellow geographer who agrees 👌
this is factual
Most takes are reasonable, as long as we can all agree that people who say "up north means the UP" are 100%, unequivocally wrong The UP is it's own damn thing! "Up North" means within the Lower Peninsula I will die on this hill
It's like saying Alaska and Hawaii are the only states "out west"
Alaska is also out East.
The UP is up up north. That’s how our fam always described it🤣
There up north and there’s UP north.
[The Rifle/Limited (formerly Shotgun) line.](https://www.vmcdn.ca/f/files/sooleader/images/20231201-muzzleloading-season.jpg;w=960)
This! This is always the line I draw. I had no idea there was a smart person reason for my answer.
This is the one.
[This also corresponds roughly to the 44th parallel, which should be the delimiter.](https://i.imgur.com/saXM3iG.png)
I subscribe to the 45th parallel theory. Halfway between the equator and the north pole, it runs through Gaylord.
Same. As long as it's above Cadillac (center of state) I'm happy
I live directly on the line and that’s about dead accurate in my eyes too. UP is the UP, up north is north half of the mitten!
This is probably the most agreeable answer to the question of where up north starts that I’ve ever seen. Everyone is never going to be in full agreement, but I feel like this is a very reasonable answer.
S tier post.
This is pretty accurate, when compared to most people who state Standish/West Branch and Clare being the line.
I mean the line pretty much goes through Clare lol
I like this one. Its got actual reasoning
This is also a major fire line that I found interesting. The fifth national climate assessment put out last year shows greatly increased fire risks for northern MI in the near future (~10-20yrs)that run right along that line. We'll have similar increased fire risk to Minnesota and Wisconsin for northern MI. Guess the great lakes can only shield us so much.
Much of the soil up there is either glacial till or sand, and thus not great for holding water a long time. Pair that with lots more conifers, and Jack pines in particular (which are sexually attracted to fire), and it can make for a bigger fire threat than south of the line.
I feel like Mackinaw island should be purple, but I guess they go by full time residents.
It looks like they masked all park areas as "non-agricultural" and most of Mackinac is state park. But yeah, there should be at least a couple purple pixels at the south end.
Accurate..
Makes sense that up north would be delineated based on the climatic tension line. It really is a different landscape based on which side you are on.
”… The climate, soils and cover types begin to change north of a line from Muskegon to just north of Bay City. This line marks a transition or ’[tension zone](https://www2.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners_Guide/Introduction/Glossary.htm#Tension%20Zone)’ that separates the Lower Peninsula into north and south ecosystems.“ [https://www2.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners\_Guide/Introduction/Ecosystems.htm](https://www2.dnr.state.mi.us/publications/pdfs/huntingwildlifehabitat/Landowners_Guide/Introduction/Ecosystems.htm)
In terms of making "Up North" an objective line drawn on a map, this is pretty much the right line to draw, where agricultural land gives way to forests, my personal point that I used to establish a geographical "Up North" was the bridge over the Muskegon river on M-37 in Newaygo, which this line pretty much lines up with that point. Though as I get older I'm more of the opinion that "Up North" is more a state of mind, when you are in that mindset of getting away from it all and relaxing and enjoying the great outdoor spaces this state has to offer, it doesn't matter much which side of this line you physically are on when you are in that mindset, you are "Up North"
This post aligns with my idea of "Up North" starting near the beginning of Huron Manatee National Forrest! I can get behind this!
Place your hand in front of you with your palm side up - like you're asking for money. Move your 4 (non-thumb fingers) towards you like you're saying "come here." The fold across your hand is the "up north line in Michigan."
This is brilliant.
To me it's always meant Mackinac and up, but thats probably just because in my family any time we went "up north" for family trips it always involved crossing the bridge
Up north is (and has always been) a state of mind.
A state of mind north of the Zilwaukee Bridge
I concur
I’m from Mack city and I think this is 100% accurate.
I concur.
Up north begins at White Cloud, says so on the sign coming into town: Where the north begins and the pure waters flow.
Devils lake area has the same stuff and that's well south of Jackson. Cadillac is the center of the state north south.
I like it. The angle makes sense. Muskegon and saginaw seem like border areas.
That little chunk of green just above your red line on the west side, I think it should be a bit higher. On the lakeshore of Lake Michigan, that bit of purple in that last little chunk of green is Ludington, which is where US 31 becomes a 2-lane road. Also, civilization seems to drop of dramatically north of there.
All "up north" arguing aside, I think the Portage Canal, Portage Lake, and Torch Lake should be blue. Otherwise, I like the data driven format for this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keweenaw_Waterway
I didn't make the map, just stole it from USDA and drew a line with my thumb.
LOL :D
I live outside of West Branch. A few years ago they were looking for a new marketing slogan. I thought it should be “Gateway to the North.” But they went with, “Where the city meets the country.” Not sure what city they are talking about, but ok? West Branch certainly doesn’t qualify.
I grew up driving up 131, and always said the Muskegon River was it for me, so I thank you for proving me right.
Uo north starts when the dirt goes from clay to sand Somewhere around grayling
Up north is beyond the Saginaw valley, where it starts getting hilly, at West Branch! Suddenly scenic!
I’ve always said that “up north” begins after the zilwaukee bridge on 75. Looks like I’m not too far off.
Seems like the big mine should be non-agricultural.
What is the resolution here? Why can you clearly make out Camp Grayling & Wurtsmith but not national forests and state parks?
As someone who lives around the Detroit area any place that I gotta head north for 2 or more hours is considered Up North to me. Rosebush? Up North. Harrison? Up North. Traverse City? Up North. Tawas? Up North. I'd even consider Grand Rapids Up North.
Seems about right
People i work with think that anything north of M-59 is “up north”. Merely subjective
I’m from Alma. Now I live in Grand Rapids. I consider northern Michigan anything north of Rockford. I learned something new today 💕
Up North is a state of mind.
This is exactly where my family draws the line too. Not coincidentally, the bottom chunk of the state underneath it is also the "easiest winter" portion of the snow lines. There's another line/snow line running parallel. But almost near the tip of the southern peninsula. That's "first north" and "medium winter" between those lines. Above the second line, "True Up North" and also "toughest winter". That's how my entire family divides up the state. Three chunks.
Sure. But where does "up nort" begin?
Technically, it’s an hour nort of where you live. Edit - of course
"nort"
That doesn’t really track for me. You’re including parts of the Huron coast that absolutely are considered up north. You know what we need? We need to draw a line for where grocery stores that aren’t Walmart or Meijer begin to become “yellow” or have stained wood as part of the interior.
It's m55
Most people would say it is north of the 45th parallel, which is just south of Gaylord.
10 north of 10 is up north because that's where you can use a rifle to hunt.
Me, I am north of the line.
North starts in Trenary.
Anywhere above I-69
Id move parts of that slightly south but accurate
Up North begins at the Spicers Boat City billboard on 127, the Pentwater exit on 31, and where 23 separates from 75 between Pinconning and Standish.
Seems pretty accurate. I live in the Manistee national forest 20 mins above the line.
I’ll allow it
I’d like it to be known I said the same thing in my post and i was silenced when they removed my post
I'm 15 minutes from the Ohio line so everything is pretty much up North for me!
North of the red line the state has more hills and forest, and south of it, it is almost totally flat and farmland. On a warm summer night you can smell the line. The air quality is a lot better north of the line.
I love this. Looking at history, this line and north is roughly where pine country was located that caused the lumbering industry to thrive in Michigan. Namely the cities of Saginaw, Bay City, and Muskegon and several smaller towns.
That’s where my imaginary line is drawn too! For the same reason
I feel like there is less water on this map than is accurate
Up north is anything north of your current location. Lived near TC and for most that was up north, but we went up north to Indian River and beyond.
Anything North of Standish
This is the most accurate of all of them
Bed, bath and BEYOND
OP is treating this as if it’s their baby or something. When you find yourself not surrounded by concrete or farms and instead find yourself surrounded by trees, you’ve made it.
This is how it’s done right here! Completely agree with your findings!
From a plane you can see a hard line where the southern agricultural land ends and the north woods begins. In June at least everything looks lush and green south of the line and everything looks browner and less green north of that line. It’s where glacial till abruptly meets rich soil.
I talk about this line all the time lol. Really funny to see it backed up through data
I don’t care up north is the up… never head someone say they went up north and mean anywhere but the UP and when they go to traverse city or even mackinaw they don’t say that…
Midland is literally middle of Michigan
it’s so obviously the Bridge though
I’m a Michigander and most of the darker green, southern area on this map is rural AF!
We need to build a wall, and make the white walkers and wildlings pay for it.
Up note starts at Ithaca !!!
For us Yoopers, UP North is the Keweenaw and everything south of the Mac is Troll land.
Calling muskegon "up north" is just trolling. It's three hours from Chicago and Detroit. We have an airport. Grand rapids is 30 miles east and you can take the train from there. We're not in the sticks.
I wouldn't call the city of Muskegon up north, but could see a valid argument that anything north of apple Ave or even north of Muskegon county is "up north"
Muskegon isn't up north but you get into the woods pretty quickly heading north from Muskegon. You don't have to be in the sticks to be up north. Duluth is up north, and parts of the UP are within an hour of Green Bay.
I’ve never known a state more obsessed with where you divide yourselves physically lol
Up North begins at the Zilwaukee Bridge, dagnabbit.
This is such a bummer of a map. Outlines how weak MI central cities are. We must really hate cities and love sprawl.
Yeah, "agri-urban" is pretty grim
Almost left side is a little low though should go from US 10 straight across the state
As a lifelong resident of northern lower Michigan, I would like to say something nice about southern Michigan…. And for anyone who would like to move here, please don’t.
Two things I learned since moving to Michigan in 2007: How to use my hand to point out where in Michigan one lives. "Up North" is anywhere north of where you are at the time. If you are in White Pigeon, Kalamazoo is "up north!" 😛
Nah. Anywhere north is just "up" but that's different than up north. If you're in white pigeon you'd say you're going "up to kalamazoo" but you wouldn't normally call kalamazoo "up north". Same thing with places south of you. If you live in Marquette you might say you're going down to escanaba but you wouldn't call it "down south" or "down state".
It's like in NYC - "uptown" and "downtown" are directions, but also synonymous with Upper and Lower Manhattan
True enough.
I live 6 miles north of my parents. Guess I live up north
You do indeed! 😁😉
I can’t think of anything as unimportant as this discussion that irritates me as much as this discussion. Everyone’s definition of Up North is sixty to ninety miles north of where they live.
It's a discussion that should be, ya know, "fun over beers" etc. but man people get *all up in their feelings about it.*
Yes they do. I admit to being guilty of this.
Agreed, which is why I tried to come at the question scientifically. Everyone has their own "up north"
Or not.
Up North is 14 mile road
Its The Bridge. It always has been.
The UP is not northern Michigan. The UP is the UP. If I’m going over the bridge I tell people I’m going UP. If I’m going north of Muskegon I say I’m going to northern Michigan. Far different designations.
I'm pretty sure the UP is North. Kinda the definition of Northern Michigan being it is the most North.
In that case only Isle Royale is Up North!
No. Up North is where the forest changes from deciduous to coniferous. Roughly M-55. No other criteria makes sense.
Clare
I thought up north was a state of mind
Found the Yupper!
Ummmmmmm. No.
Up north is a state of mind. Northern Michigan is the top third of the whole state. Central Michigan is the middle third of the whole state. Southern Michigan is the lower third of the whole state.
I am still a firm believer that the tip of the thumb should be considered up north.
Geographically speaking. Up north consists of the area “above” the 45th parallel of the northern hemisphere. And that’s the exact location used to determine up north in Michigan. It’s clear cut. No ifs’ ands’ or buts about it
Agree
My perspective is up north is when you cross the bridge. Everything else is just downstate.
There's Southern Michigan, Northern Michigan, and the UP. I respect the Superior State too much to involve them in this.