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At 1000FPS, rendering the F3 screen text actually takes up a significant portion of the frametime. Unfortunately the immediate-mode rendering pipeline (i.e. the GUI and entities) in minecraft is an absolute dumpster fire and quickly ends up using more computation than rendering all the rest of the terrain combined when Sodium is installed. I'd add the mod ImmediatelyFast to help mitigate this somewhat. You'll probably hit like 1200+ FPS.
I'll give that a shot, these performance mods are crazy, I'm just doing regular gameplay and even with 32 chunk simulation I get over 1300 FPS. This is just amazing.
EDIT: also I love MultiMC and Sodium is so easy to install with it, OptiFine requires you to run vanilla launcher once, etc etc. VERY bad experience.
Yeah its crazy how much its able to improve the rendering, but then again its basically a complete rewrite of the engine from the ground up. And it could be far better if not for being held back by shitty Intel iGPU hardware and driver support. Jellysquid has long lamented that if not for Intel's broken OpenGL drivers, she could utilize more advanced OpenGL 4.x features and really increase the performance. But then you'd end up dropping support for every laptop/desktop iGPU older than Skylake which of course isnt ideal because they are the ones that need the performance the most.
That said, while screenshots showing 1000+ FPS are fun, currently in real world gameplay you still tend to be limited by other things in the game engine on the CPU side like entity rendering or calculating occlusion (this is something that the add-on mod Nvidium moves to the GPU side for significant gains at higher render distances).
There are even more things possible that are limited by the game being developed in Java... Java makes modding easy, but as a performance oriented language its pretty awful and doesnt take advantage of modern CPU architecture. A lot of the CPU bottlenecks could be reduced by an order of magnitude if Java could properly issue vectorized instructions.
VulkanMod
Nvidium
Look them up, keep your eye on them, spread awareness of them about as you choose
Insane potential for Java's future the more eyes with capability that sees and tinkers with them due to that in their spare time the better
And Mojang decided to fuck performance on it by redoing the rendering engine for ārAy TrAcInGā. Even owning a high end 4000 series card myself, Iāve used ray tracing exactly once, and have no intention of turning it on ever again. An actual waste
Bedrock is pretty laggy anyway, just not frame-wise. The inventories taking actual seconds to open is still an issue, and it just feels clunkier than Java overall.
64 render without frame drops is definitely awesome though.
Iāve never had any inventory take āactual secondsā to open. Unless itās a dropper/dispensaries firing on a clock, then you just have to time it right. Also, what am impatient bratty issue to have lol
Whenever I try to install Iris the
modpack crashes cause it needs a special Sodium version and when you change the Sodium version literally everything else breaks too.
I wouldn't use optifine anymore but you don't ever need the vanilla launcher to install it. The jar can just be dropped into a multimc instance like any other mod and still work. That's what I was doing before this new series of performance mods. I'm not sure why they still tell people to do it the hard way.
Yes. Anything that launches minecraft needs your login. All the code for it is also on github so if it was doing anything sketchy I doubt it would still be such a well endorsed launcher.
Because no one wants to touch it lol. Performance modders dont even want to touch it. Its got 13 years of terrible code debt and if you touch any part of it everything else explodes like pulling out the bottom block of a Jenga tower.
I believe someone has made vid about this but vog is completely correct, thats also the reason why updates take for ever to release (sucks but quite understandable)
Iām thinking the same thing. I remember when optifine first came out and it was a godsend for everyone with potato PCs.
Crazy to see it being replaced, I havenāt been on in years. Excited to build a PC eventually and get back into the mix.
I have bedrock butā¦.once you play Java with shaders for years, bedrock w/ its bugs just ends up feeling like trash.
100% agreed. When you return, I strongly recommend Sodium and iris, then install Complimentary shaders. Incredible shader pack that seriously puts down incredible ray tracing like I've never seen. Frankly, I don't understand why games that advertise RTX don't look this good.
Itās not the only option anymore and the Optifine devās refusal to open source their code or work with other developers in any way to help manage compatibility issues makes it almost impossible to use in mod packs.
I remember even back in the day, installing OptiFine with Forge was a pain even then. OptiFine was definitely helpful in its early days, but it has always had compatibility issues in some way, shape, or form. Once I learned about Sodium and switched away from OptiFine about a year ago I never *ever* looked back. Yeah, it requires you to install more mods to get feature parity (such as zoom, connected textures, and shaders), but itās so much better in the long run.
As I understand it, Optifine is being replaced mostly because it doesn't take advantage of features from newer hardware. If you do take advantage of those features, you can get better performance. Newer performance mods have been using some of those newer features and gets better performance as a result. It's not that Optifine's now a bad performance mod, it's just outdated these days.
Moreso because OptiFine hasn't gotten better for newer versions, which is more demanding than older ones. So people made better optimization mods. Pretty simple
Does sodium support PBR textures? I'd probably be keen on switching over but minecraft feels like a whole new game with proper PBR resource packs and shaders that support it.
I did try it out and got additional 50 fps on sildur's extreme shaders. From 90 to 140, without any adjustments, just straight out of the box. Pretty good.
I do miss the zoom from optifine a bit though, but I guess there's a fabric mod for that somewhere.
There's a couple of things I like in Optifine besides the FPS boost, and that is 1) The zoom function and 2) Lighting the environment when you hold a torch in the off-hand.
1. [Zoomify](https://modrinth.com/mod/zoomify)
2. [LambDynamicLights](https://modrinth.com/mod/lambdynamiclights)
Note that dynamic lights mods will cause some performance degradation since they cause chunk-updates.
Thanks. However it means I need to install three extensions and not just one. Just a lot more to install and worry about updates etc. every time a new MC release appears.
Modpacks that specifically aim for Optifine feature-parity such as [Additive](https://modrinth.com/modpack/additive) exist. Then you only have to update/install one thing.
If you have Nvidia GPU and tried Sodium prior to 0.5.0, you may have experienced the Nvidia threaded optimization issue which killed performance.
If you have weak integrated graphics, there are some situations where OF can perform better in static scenes due to rendering less terrain... though this advantage usually disappears completely when moving the camera or loading chunks.
That may be it actually... I tried it with Minecraft 1.19.2, Idk what version of sodium. It was more or less the same as optifine, but I think optifine was more up to date at the time.
Edit: I tried again and same result :/
Iris and Sodium are only on Modrinth (and Github). But you can manually add the jars to your mods folder, assuming you are using Fabric Loader. If you are using Forge, there are no official Forge versions but there are unofficial ones (Embeddium and Oculus, which are on curseforge).
I am still using optifine mod to run seus shaders and other extreme shaders. Any benefits to switching to sodium? Heard about it but donāt know anything.
Absolutely. You can run Seus shaders with sodium+iris. Sodium's performance gains are monstrous over Optifine. Optifine got me like an extra 10 FPS, which I thought was okay, but sodium DOUBLED my FPS WHILE USING SHADERS! Blew me away. Cuz before it was no shaders, 12 chunk render distance, and "fast" for all video settings. That got me 60 FPS. After the switch I began using complimentary shaders, cranked up settings, increased render distance to 18 chunks, and quite literally freaked out.
Idk how such a good mod exists tbh. Mojang sbould be trying to hire them.
I know this all probably sounds like fanboy hype but I promise you, if another mod came out that was better than sodium, I'd jump ship without hesitation.
>Mojang sbould be trying to hire them.
The problem here is that they would then be limited by corporate overhead.
I wouldn't be shocked if Mojang intentionally lets things like this go just so that doesn't happen. Tin foil hat though.
Really? I remember trying sodium a year or so ago and saw barely any improvements over nothing, sometimes being worse than vanilla, but optifine has consistently gotten me massive Improvements.
Did some googling and it turns out that older versions didn't work properly on a lot of nvidea hardware due to a bug, and that it was patched out now. I'll try it when I get a chance.
u/_vogonpoetry_ knows a lot, they left some good comments earlier too, well can't tag them because Reddit parses the _ in their name and thinks I'm trying to make the word italic
If you write a backslash, itāll show the underscores instead of using italics. Backslashes show hidden characters instead of hiding them :D
u/\_vogonpoetry\_
Sodium's modrinth page has a Technical Details section near the bottom which explains some things about how it works (though its slightly outdated) https://modrinth.com/mod/sodium
For the real details you'd want to look at the source code on github but you need a CompSci degree to understand half of it.
As for why Mojang doesnt do it, well they have been improving it slowly. Compared to the old days the current MC engine is in a much better state. For example recent versions have fixed both the DFU and the lighting engine. I dont think they are super motivated to improve Java though because, one, its really difficult to do, and two, bedrock edition exists.
My laptop couldn't handle fancy graphics with optifine at all. And I am SO happy I swapped to fabric with Sodium, Lithium & Phosphor etc
Now I can run the game smoothly with I think 150 fps, fancy graphics and 20 chunk render distance, it's such a game changer!
Devils advocate here. I'm sure that they have a good reason for not just implementing the changes this mod provides. It's probably something to do with compatability or intentional hardware limitations
Iāve never randomly died in MC till I was playing Java the other night and died just out of nowhere completely unwarranted then my entire inventory got deleted too
My netherite armor and tools my food everything just gone
Got downvoted cause I randomly died in Java š
More like its bc there isnāt a single documented case of that happening. Yet there are so so many cases everyday posted here of it happening on bedrock
Bedrock still preforms worse than Java does with Sodium. Add Nvidium into the mix and it's not even in the same realm anymore - I can get 144 fps with a 256 render distance.
It's just fascinating for the most part. I do plan to buy a 540Hz monitor but gotta ask myself if the $900 is worth it since I'm not a pro gamer and I already have a really good 240Hz one.
Over 1000 FPS, my GPU has so much coil whine.
From a practical standpoint, someone with my PC setup should have a 4K monitor... This performance mod should let someone run at 300+ FPS pretty smoothly
>But if you play competitive fps the difference will always matter.
No... it won't? Are you saying there isn't a point of diminishing returns? That's crazy
Well yeah the point at which it won't matter will be once we reach 1000hz displays. But until then there's technically a visible difference even if it's not as obvious
More FPS translates to more perceived smoothness regardless of your monitor's refresh rate because of the shorter input delay. OFC 1500fps is well into diminishing returns territory, but if your PC can do it and the mods take all of 3 minutes to install then why the fuck would you not take it?
Bc even though the actual input is taken āinstantlyā the action that input causes isnāt started until the next frame. So if you have a lot more frames your input gets put into the game faster.
Let's put it this way. If I have an input delay of 5ms, as in I click my mouse and it's a 5ms delay. If a frame at 165fps just passed and I click 3ms afterwards, I'm not gonna see that happen until the next next frame. The reason why is the 5ms delay will occur at the 8ms mark, and a frame at 165fps takes 6.06ms to render, so the action wont occur at the next frame, but we'll see it in the frame after. Though that's a bad case of the delay being 5ms, which can still happen.
Now at a case of like 1000fps, if I have a 165hz monitor, I'll only see 165fps. However the GPU is able to calculate and put out a new frame every ms, so 5ms after I click, it'll send it out into the frame and I'll be able to see it at the next frame my monitor can display.
It's a reason why first-person shooter gamers uncap or cap their FPS at nearly double their refresh rate. It's so they can get that responsiveness.
Most of the time a delay is around 1ms-3ms, which means that past 1000FPS, it'll be a point of diminishing return. As long as the delay time isn't greater than your monitor's refresh rate, you're normally good though.
Not well versed on why but why does Java edition have such bad performance on client/server? Why is bedrock's marginally better and how do these mods like sodium improve it. I never saw or heard a technical rundown.
for everybody else since i see OP is using an AMD gpu: Nvidium is an extension of sodium that lets you get this performance boost EVEN HIGHER, using Nvidia mesh rendering, but it requires nvidia gpus that are a 16xx or above. For older gpus/amd also try vulkan if your gpu has vulkan support, not the same perf boost but still something
OF modifies the vanilla renderer, which means its pretty limited in what it can achieve. Recent versions havent really improved performance much at all and instead have focused more on features.
Sodium is a (nearly) complete open source rewrite of the renderer which means it can change a lot more of the engine while maintaining good compatibility with other mods. As a result, Sodium focuses very narrowly on performance alone and leaves features like shaders or custom models, etc to other Fabric mods like Iris.
Yeah dude, sodium is amazing, with my low end pc I get over 150fps with 32 render distance.
While with optifine the game breaks and drops to the low 30s
Theres a mod called VulkanMod that in my experience runs even better. It has some incompatibilities for obvious reasons, but is amazing in my experience.
Sodium blows Optifine out of the water. Significantly better performance and there are other mods and add-ons to do literally almost everything else Optifine does. Plus, it doesn't freak out and crash your game whenever there's any other mods.
If you think that's impressive, add on [Distant Horizons](https://youtu.be/SxQdbtjGEsc?si=rDpV9BpxdTllQU_j) to really change how you view the world.
I honestly consider it cheating. I can literally see a woodland mansion from my base, a little over a literal mile away.
Nvidium is also pretty insane. I can get a solid 240hz with a 100 chunk render distance. Only problem is that shader currently dont work with it.
Also note that although i dont have an AMD gpu, ive read that they are adding support for the opengl mesh shaders in the rx 6000 and newer cards in the near future, so you guy's hopefully can use the mod soon.
Yeah nvidium is insane, I'm trying to get my friend that has a 1660 to test out the gains. It's funny because this is the second thing in Minecraft where NVIDIA is better than AMD. I can't use 512x512 texturepacks with an AMD GPU. There was some explanation on the purebdcraft texturepack website.
Im just going to copy a comment i just wrote in reply to another user
Its a lot better when you use mods, shaders or higher render distances and still get playable fps. Based on my experience, a modpack with 180~ mods can run 80fps with shaders on 64 chunks with these performance mods
Nope, Minecraft barely stutters nowadays. At least from my experience. I haven't experienced stuttering in 1.20 at all, compared to 1.12 where it happens regularly, and it's even worse in modpacks
Sodium doesnt "turn off" any GPU intensive features.... It maintains vanilla rendering parity other than translucency-sorting but that was never running on the GPU in the first place (which is why translucent geometry absolutely destroys FPS in vanilla).
At least half of Sodium's optimizations are actually on the CPU side which is why the largest gains are seen on systems with discrete GPUs since reducing the massive CPU and memory bottlenecks of the vanilla renderer allows the GPU to actually be utilized.
No idea, I was just playing with shaders and ran into one that required Iris (which installs Sodium). I turned off the shaders and was like why am I getting 1k+ FPS š
I personally don't see a degradation in graphics so I am just shocked at how amazing this is.
Meanwhile on Bedrock Edition I use 96 chunk render distance and roughly 150-200 fps. Doesnāt need to be any better than that for me.
Edit: If youāre going to downvote for no reason, fine, but please do not reply about glitches. That joke is so overplayed and rooted in ignorance. There are *millions* of people who play Bedrock who have never experienced game-breaking glitches. Keep your toxicity to yourselves.
Based on what I see on social media, it's an issue that affects a good number of people. And it's a pretty major issue in my opinion - someone can randomly die and lose all their stuff due to a game bug... I don't know of any bug in Java edition that is that severe.
I thought it didn't work on AMD, the guy from the video I saw about it kept saying that it only works with NVIDIA GPUs and that it won't do anything with AMD. Have I gotten bamboozled?
Over the course of the years, optifine has lost most, if not all of the performance gains it once had. With current Mojang implemented optimizations, I don't think otpfine makes any difference at all from Vanilla.
There are a lot of mods that complements Sodium, try a modpack called Fabulously Optimized. It is really good and very well maintained, it includes most of the performance mods that are stable. If you play with a nvidea gpu and don't mind shaders, use nvidium. Use Bobby to increase render distance above 32 and behold your game running over 100 chunks at basically the same fps.
I do get a good performance bump with it but I wonder if it scales with more cores since I have a 4/8 core Ryzen. I also run 256 chunks with Distant Horizons so that might be why
Chunk loading and new chunk generation are multithreaded, but the main renderer is still single threaded. If you are standing still, more cores wont do anything. Sodium mostly scales with GPU performance, so if you have an iGPU model such as the 3400G, you're going to be limited by that before the CPU cores themselves.
How on earth would you even notice that though? Does 200 hundred even look any different than 1000? I kind of doubt itā¦ see I do not care about performance. Maybe I would if I had a massive world with a lot of data but for now 18-22 chunks at 60-80 fps is dandy.
Unless you have a good monitor with good refreahing rate it doesnt matter how may FPS you have, you will never see more then your Monitor can deliver. And in today worlds the best of the best moniotrs are at 500Hz
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At 1000FPS, rendering the F3 screen text actually takes up a significant portion of the frametime. Unfortunately the immediate-mode rendering pipeline (i.e. the GUI and entities) in minecraft is an absolute dumpster fire and quickly ends up using more computation than rendering all the rest of the terrain combined when Sodium is installed. I'd add the mod ImmediatelyFast to help mitigate this somewhat. You'll probably hit like 1200+ FPS.
I'll give that a shot, these performance mods are crazy, I'm just doing regular gameplay and even with 32 chunk simulation I get over 1300 FPS. This is just amazing. EDIT: also I love MultiMC and Sodium is so easy to install with it, OptiFine requires you to run vanilla launcher once, etc etc. VERY bad experience.
Yeah its crazy how much its able to improve the rendering, but then again its basically a complete rewrite of the engine from the ground up. And it could be far better if not for being held back by shitty Intel iGPU hardware and driver support. Jellysquid has long lamented that if not for Intel's broken OpenGL drivers, she could utilize more advanced OpenGL 4.x features and really increase the performance. But then you'd end up dropping support for every laptop/desktop iGPU older than Skylake which of course isnt ideal because they are the ones that need the performance the most. That said, while screenshots showing 1000+ FPS are fun, currently in real world gameplay you still tend to be limited by other things in the game engine on the CPU side like entity rendering or calculating occlusion (this is something that the add-on mod Nvidium moves to the GPU side for significant gains at higher render distances).
The fact that there are even more performance gains possible lol
There are even more things possible that are limited by the game being developed in Java... Java makes modding easy, but as a performance oriented language its pretty awful and doesnt take advantage of modern CPU architecture. A lot of the CPU bottlenecks could be reduced by an order of magnitude if Java could properly issue vectorized instructions.
VulkanMod Nvidium Look them up, keep your eye on them, spread awareness of them about as you choose Insane potential for Java's future the more eyes with capability that sees and tinkers with them due to that in their spare time the better
Imagine how great this game would've run on C++ š
bedrock is coded in C++, although does not have the same quirks like java
And Mojang decided to fuck performance on it by redoing the rendering engine for ārAy TrAcInGā. Even owning a high end 4000 series card myself, Iāve used ray tracing exactly once, and have no intention of turning it on ever again. An actual waste
Bedrock is pretty laggy anyway, just not frame-wise. The inventories taking actual seconds to open is still an issue, and it just feels clunkier than Java overall. 64 render without frame drops is definitely awesome though.
Iāve never had any inventory take āactual secondsā to open. Unless itās a dropper/dispensaries firing on a clock, then you just have to time it right. Also, what am impatient bratty issue to have lol
If you have an Nvidia graphics card, try Nvidium. It can further double your performance.
Was about to say. It's great!
try the simply optimized modpack, its what gets me the most. id like to see how that performs
We need to start pressuring Intel to fix their drivers
If you're using MultiMC, look for the Simply Optimised modpack under modrinth - it doesn't have iris but that's an easy fix.
Whenever I try to install Iris the modpack crashes cause it needs a special Sodium version and when you change the Sodium version literally everything else breaks too.
I recommend Prism, it's a fork of MultiMC but it gets updated more often
I wouldn't use optifine anymore but you don't ever need the vanilla launcher to install it. The jar can just be dropped into a multimc instance like any other mod and still work. That's what I was doing before this new series of performance mods. I'm not sure why they still tell people to do it the hard way.
The latest optifine version doesnt have Forge support yet so I dont think that works.
Ah. My bad. I haven't moved on from 1.19 so I just assumed optifine was still using forge.
Do I have to use my Microsoft account with MultiMC to install mods? I feel uncomfortable doing that
Yes. Anything that launches minecraft needs your login. All the code for it is also on github so if it was doing anything sketchy I doubt it would still be such a well endorsed launcher.
I more recommend Prism; MultiMC had some drama iirc and most of the devs are working on Prism Launcher now, which is a fork of it
I don't understand why Mojang doesn't prioritize cleaning that out. Altho I've heard of performance mods messing up AI, so maybe it's not that simple.
Because no one wants to touch it lol. Performance modders dont even want to touch it. Its got 13 years of terrible code debt and if you touch any part of it everything else explodes like pulling out the bottom block of a Jenga tower.
Brings to mind the comments in the tf2 code: āI donāt know what this does BUT DONT FUCKING TOUCH IT OR ELSE IT ALL BREAKSā
Coconut.jpg moment
Lol cause the community would be so happy if they got even slower with adding new features
I believe someone has made vid about this but vog is completely correct, thats also the reason why updates take for ever to release (sucks but quite understandable)
I've been telling people forever: stop using Optifine and switch to Sodium. Glad you joined the club.
man, it's been so long since I last played minecraft that THE optifine has fallen out of favor, crazy
Iām thinking the same thing. I remember when optifine first came out and it was a godsend for everyone with potato PCs. Crazy to see it being replaced, I havenāt been on in years. Excited to build a PC eventually and get back into the mix. I have bedrock butā¦.once you play Java with shaders for years, bedrock w/ its bugs just ends up feeling like trash.
100% agreed. When you return, I strongly recommend Sodium and iris, then install Complimentary shaders. Incredible shader pack that seriously puts down incredible ray tracing like I've never seen. Frankly, I don't understand why games that advertise RTX don't look this good.
Itās not the only option anymore and the Optifine devās refusal to open source their code or work with other developers in any way to help manage compatibility issues makes it almost impossible to use in mod packs.
I remember even back in the day, installing OptiFine with Forge was a pain even then. OptiFine was definitely helpful in its early days, but it has always had compatibility issues in some way, shape, or form. Once I learned about Sodium and switched away from OptiFine about a year ago I never *ever* looked back. Yeah, it requires you to install more mods to get feature parity (such as zoom, connected textures, and shaders), but itās so much better in the long run.
As I understand it, Optifine is being replaced mostly because it doesn't take advantage of features from newer hardware. If you do take advantage of those features, you can get better performance. Newer performance mods have been using some of those newer features and gets better performance as a result. It's not that Optifine's now a bad performance mod, it's just outdated these days.
Moreso because OptiFine hasn't gotten better for newer versions, which is more demanding than older ones. So people made better optimization mods. Pretty simple
Does sodium support PBR textures? I'd probably be keen on switching over but minecraft feels like a whole new game with proper PBR resource packs and shaders that support it.
Iris mod does support PBR, yes. Sodium doesnt support shaders on its own.
Ah, I see Thanks, might try it out then.
You absolutely should, without a doubt. It's a world of difference.
I did try it out and got additional 50 fps on sildur's extreme shaders. From 90 to 140, without any adjustments, just straight out of the box. Pretty good. I do miss the zoom from optifine a bit though, but I guess there's a fabric mod for that somewhere.
Zoomify is amazing for it. Get it on Modrinth! You'll love it
I'll check it out. Thank you!
Glad to help!
How do I do this and use shaders?
Iris. There's some good YouTube guides. My personal favorite is Complimentary Shaders.
i'd recommend fabulously optimised too, it's a modpack that comes with plenty other optimization mods to act as a complete optifine replacement
Rubidium (forge port of sodium) + Mods absolutely beats the shit outta optifine in terms of performance
There's a couple of things I like in Optifine besides the FPS boost, and that is 1) The zoom function and 2) Lighting the environment when you hold a torch in the off-hand.
There are mods that add those as well, and they can be used alongside sodium.
1. [Zoomify](https://modrinth.com/mod/zoomify) 2. [LambDynamicLights](https://modrinth.com/mod/lambdynamiclights) Note that dynamic lights mods will cause some performance degradation since they cause chunk-updates.
Thanks. However it means I need to install three extensions and not just one. Just a lot more to install and worry about updates etc. every time a new MC release appears.
Modpacks that specifically aim for Optifine feature-parity such as [Additive](https://modrinth.com/modpack/additive) exist. Then you only have to update/install one thing.
Optifine works better on my PC, not sure why. I've tried both.
If you have Nvidia GPU and tried Sodium prior to 0.5.0, you may have experienced the Nvidia threaded optimization issue which killed performance. If you have weak integrated graphics, there are some situations where OF can perform better in static scenes due to rendering less terrain... though this advantage usually disappears completely when moving the camera or loading chunks.
That may be it actually... I tried it with Minecraft 1.19.2, Idk what version of sodium. It was more or less the same as optifine, but I think optifine was more up to date at the time. Edit: I tried again and same result :/
Yeah that would have been a very old release like 0.4.4. Sodium doesnt do backports though so you'd need to try it again on MC 1.20.x.
My world is on 1.20.2 I believe, so shouldn't be an issue
Can I use this on CurseForge? I have a 3070ti and an i9-13000k and I lag with shaders....
Iris and Sodium are only on Modrinth (and Github). But you can manually add the jars to your mods folder, assuming you are using Fabric Loader. If you are using Forge, there are no official Forge versions but there are unofficial ones (Embeddium and Oculus, which are on curseforge).
Do you only use a Curseforge launcher? Or the main launcher?
I am still using optifine mod to run seus shaders and other extreme shaders. Any benefits to switching to sodium? Heard about it but donāt know anything.
Absolutely. You can run Seus shaders with sodium+iris. Sodium's performance gains are monstrous over Optifine. Optifine got me like an extra 10 FPS, which I thought was okay, but sodium DOUBLED my FPS WHILE USING SHADERS! Blew me away. Cuz before it was no shaders, 12 chunk render distance, and "fast" for all video settings. That got me 60 FPS. After the switch I began using complimentary shaders, cranked up settings, increased render distance to 18 chunks, and quite literally freaked out. Idk how such a good mod exists tbh. Mojang sbould be trying to hire them. I know this all probably sounds like fanboy hype but I promise you, if another mod came out that was better than sodium, I'd jump ship without hesitation.
>Mojang sbould be trying to hire them. The problem here is that they would then be limited by corporate overhead. I wouldn't be shocked if Mojang intentionally lets things like this go just so that doesn't happen. Tin foil hat though.
Honestly yeah, corporate always sucks at any gaming company. They ruin everything they touch.
yeah man like KingBDogz was hired and the Aether hasn't been added. I don't get why people think that's how it works lol
I wish it worked like that.
Really? I remember trying sodium a year or so ago and saw barely any improvements over nothing, sometimes being worse than vanilla, but optifine has consistently gotten me massive Improvements.
You did something wrong. I'm not sure what, but I'm sure of it.
Did some googling and it turns out that older versions didn't work properly on a lot of nvidea hardware due to a bug, and that it was patched out now. I'll try it when I get a chance.
Awesome! Go for it!
Iām keeping optifine because of my cape
There is a Fabric capes mod that lets you use your OF capes. Its called... [Capes](https://modrinth.com/mod/capes).
Oh cool, it has a Forge version on that page too!
Ditch Optifine and watch your FPS soar while increasing your graphics settings.
For a dummy like myself, what is Sodium doing that makes this boost in framerate possible, and why don't Mojang also do it in vanilla?
u/_vogonpoetry_ knows a lot, they left some good comments earlier too, well can't tag them because Reddit parses the _ in their name and thinks I'm trying to make the word italic
The tag still works, it's just the mobile app that thinks it's markdown.
If you write a backslash, itāll show the underscores instead of using italics. Backslashes show hidden characters instead of hiding them :D u/\_vogonpoetry\_
yes but now the tag doesnt work lol
on mobile it does
Sodium's modrinth page has a Technical Details section near the bottom which explains some things about how it works (though its slightly outdated) https://modrinth.com/mod/sodium For the real details you'd want to look at the source code on github but you need a CompSci degree to understand half of it. As for why Mojang doesnt do it, well they have been improving it slowly. Compared to the old days the current MC engine is in a much better state. For example recent versions have fixed both the DFU and the lighting engine. I dont think they are super motivated to improve Java though because, one, its really difficult to do, and two, bedrock edition exists.
Would having 15 years of trash code behind it be part of the problem? As opposed to Sodium which if it ever breaks wouldn't affect the actual game?
My laptop couldn't handle fancy graphics with optifine at all. And I am SO happy I swapped to fabric with Sodium, Lithium & Phosphor etc Now I can run the game smoothly with I think 150 fps, fancy graphics and 20 chunk render distance, it's such a game changer!
Lithium and phosphor are also amazing. Lithium in particular dropped the temperature of my laptop CPU more than 10C
Phosphor/Starlight are no longer needed as of MC 1.20 since Mojang finally rewrote the lighting engine.
I have a 4070 Ti which is supposed to be weaker and most of the time I have 1.5K+ FPS when my render distance is 29 chunks
You can use nividium with a nividia gpu too which lets you have hundreds of chunks of render distance with almost no slowdown
Am I missing something? I tried this with a 3080 (and other perf mods) and only got at most 800fps even with a 16 render distance.
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12700k
It's crazy, I am playing in this world regularly with 32 render and simulation and FPS can get as high as 2k
Try it with lithium Edit: there is also nvidium that utilises nvidia proprietary rendering stuff, so there's that
A studio of one of the most sold games can't achieve this btw.. but a few people can
Minecraft is the most sold game even lol
Thatās the point
Devils advocate here. I'm sure that they have a good reason for not just implementing the changes this mod provides. It's probably something to do with compatability or intentional hardware limitations
It's not that they can't, they just don't care to cuz modders already did it
Well then why update the game at all, 99% of things in game right now were a mod before they were added.
Because if they stop, people will complain there is no content. If they update, people will complain that mods already covered it.
Because they can't just give Bedrock tons of cool new things and nothing to Java.
They can, they call it Bedrock Edition.
Which still randomly kills you if you look at the shift key funny.
Not really
Yes really. If you've been actively following this subreddit, you should know better.
Iāve never randomly died in MC till I was playing Java the other night and died just out of nowhere completely unwarranted then my entire inventory got deleted too My netherite armor and tools my food everything just gone Got downvoted cause I randomly died in Java š
Iām an active bedrock player and I prefer it over Java. Yes it does randomly kill you.
yup, that definitely happened you forgot the part when herobrine showed up
Because it didnāt happen to you itās impossible Solid logic
More like its bc there isnāt a single documented case of that happening. Yet there are so so many cases everyday posted here of it happening on bedrock
Bedrock still preforms worse than Java does with Sodium. Add Nvidium into the mix and it's not even in the same realm anymore - I can get 144 fps with a 256 render distance.
The point is the base game of Java is terribly optimized. You donāt need to install a bunch of garbage on Bedrock to get it to perform better.
Stupid question here, whatās the point in 1500 FPS in Minecraft? Arenāt high end monitors only 360 or 480 Hz?
Itās more a measure of possible performance. It should downscale and results at the lower end of hardware will see better results too.
I view it as a mod budget. Can add more performance intensive mods without sacrificing too much FPS.
A better answer is that if your FPS is so high then you have performance to spare. I.e; Can go for higher render distance
It's just fascinating for the most part. I do plan to buy a 540Hz monitor but gotta ask myself if the $900 is worth it since I'm not a pro gamer and I already have a really good 240Hz one. Over 1000 FPS, my GPU has so much coil whine. From a practical standpoint, someone with my PC setup should have a 4K monitor... This performance mod should let someone run at 300+ FPS pretty smoothly
540Hz is completely pointless. Especially for your use case. Don't fall into it. It's such a diminishing return past 165hz
Past 240 maybe. But if you play competitive fps the difference will always matter.
>But if you play competitive fps the difference will always matter. No... it won't? Are you saying there isn't a point of diminishing returns? That's crazy
Well yeah the point at which it won't matter will be once we reach 1000hz displays. But until then there's technically a visible difference even if it's not as obvious
"criticize for bad performance" nh.. "why u need so much fps"
What
More FPS translates to more perceived smoothness regardless of your monitor's refresh rate because of the shorter input delay. OFC 1500fps is well into diminishing returns territory, but if your PC can do it and the mods take all of 3 minutes to install then why the fuck would you not take it?
How is input delay related to FPS? One is handled by the GPU and the other one is not. Unless there's something I'm missing. I'm not an expert.
Bc even though the actual input is taken āinstantlyā the action that input causes isnāt started until the next frame. So if you have a lot more frames your input gets put into the game faster.
Let's put it this way. If I have an input delay of 5ms, as in I click my mouse and it's a 5ms delay. If a frame at 165fps just passed and I click 3ms afterwards, I'm not gonna see that happen until the next next frame. The reason why is the 5ms delay will occur at the 8ms mark, and a frame at 165fps takes 6.06ms to render, so the action wont occur at the next frame, but we'll see it in the frame after. Though that's a bad case of the delay being 5ms, which can still happen. Now at a case of like 1000fps, if I have a 165hz monitor, I'll only see 165fps. However the GPU is able to calculate and put out a new frame every ms, so 5ms after I click, it'll send it out into the frame and I'll be able to see it at the next frame my monitor can display. It's a reason why first-person shooter gamers uncap or cap their FPS at nearly double their refresh rate. It's so they can get that responsiveness. Most of the time a delay is around 1ms-3ms, which means that past 1000FPS, it'll be a point of diminishing return. As long as the delay time isn't greater than your monitor's refresh rate, you're normally good though.
>7800x3D >7900XTX >1080p ā¦opā¦ you are graphically limited by your monitor
I barely get 30 fps with 8 chunks rendering...nice specs tho
How bad are the specs?
Please cap fps. It just puts unnecessary stress on your gpu. But still very cool though! Love Sodium.
Minecraft uncapped somehow eats a lot less power than even a "light" shader (30-45w vanilla/sodium vs 80+ with shaders. Some even go over 100w)
Cries in 21 fps
That is sodium but in you have a Nvidia you kan use nvidum as an sodium ad on
Where do you see a nvidia gpu? OP has a 7900 xtx
what is insane is your PC, that's actually insane.
Not well versed on why but why does Java edition have such bad performance on client/server? Why is bedrock's marginally better and how do these mods like sodium improve it. I never saw or heard a technical rundown.
Try nvidium
Nvidium doesnt work on amd cards
for everybody else since i see OP is using an AMD gpu: Nvidium is an extension of sodium that lets you get this performance boost EVEN HIGHER, using Nvidia mesh rendering, but it requires nvidia gpus that are a 16xx or above. For older gpus/amd also try vulkan if your gpu has vulkan support, not the same perf boost but still something
Use the mod ImmediatelyFast to help with gui rendering, fps gain for me was the matter of playability or unplayablity on a low end device i tried
n on linux it'll go to 2k lol.
What are the exact differences between optifine and sodium?
OF modifies the vanilla renderer, which means its pretty limited in what it can achieve. Recent versions havent really improved performance much at all and instead have focused more on features. Sodium is a (nearly) complete open source rewrite of the renderer which means it can change a lot more of the engine while maintaining good compatibility with other mods. As a result, Sodium focuses very narrowly on performance alone and leaves features like shaders or custom models, etc to other Fabric mods like Iris.
Yeah dude, sodium is amazing, with my low end pc I get over 150fps with 32 render distance. While with optifine the game breaks and drops to the low 30s
Theres a mod called VulkanMod that in my experience runs even better. It has some incompatibilities for obvious reasons, but is amazing in my experience.
Sodium blows Optifine out of the water. Significantly better performance and there are other mods and add-ons to do literally almost everything else Optifine does. Plus, it doesn't freak out and crash your game whenever there's any other mods.
Bro is bottlenecking his whole system playing at 1080p, makes me wanna cry
If you think that's impressive, add on [Distant Horizons](https://youtu.be/SxQdbtjGEsc?si=rDpV9BpxdTllQU_j) to really change how you view the world. I honestly consider it cheating. I can literally see a woodland mansion from my base, a little over a literal mile away.
Sodium? Like iris and sodium?
Nvidium is also pretty insane. I can get a solid 240hz with a 100 chunk render distance. Only problem is that shader currently dont work with it. Also note that although i dont have an AMD gpu, ive read that they are adding support for the opengl mesh shaders in the rx 6000 and newer cards in the near future, so you guy's hopefully can use the mod soon.
Yeah nvidium is insane, I'm trying to get my friend that has a 1660 to test out the gains. It's funny because this is the second thing in Minecraft where NVIDIA is better than AMD. I can't use 512x512 texturepacks with an AMD GPU. There was some explanation on the purebdcraft texturepack website.
Started from the bottom now we here
can I have forge and sodium on at the same time?
Optifine is much better for me. 300 fps instead of 100. Sodium less, 100 the same as Vanilla.
Can someone tell me why people would need more than 10 times the frame rate of the human eye?
Not even considering human eyes, why do someone needs 10 times more fps than their monitor's refresh rate?
Im just going to copy a comment i just wrote in reply to another user Its a lot better when you use mods, shaders or higher render distances and still get playable fps. Based on my experience, a modpack with 180~ mods can run 80fps with shaders on 64 chunks with these performance mods
The human eye doesn't see in fps. "The human eye can only see x fps" is and always has been a lie, case closed.
I suppose it's stuttering like crazy yeah?
Nope, Minecraft barely stutters nowadays. At least from my experience. I haven't experienced stuttering in 1.20 at all, compared to 1.12 where it happens regularly, and it's even worse in modpacks
No stutters. The frametime charts aren't very stable though, can go from 1k to 2k to 900s, etc.
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Sodium doesnt "turn off" any GPU intensive features.... It maintains vanilla rendering parity other than translucency-sorting but that was never running on the GPU in the first place (which is why translucent geometry absolutely destroys FPS in vanilla). At least half of Sodium's optimizations are actually on the CPU side which is why the largest gains are seen on systems with discrete GPUs since reducing the massive CPU and memory bottlenecks of the vanilla renderer allows the GPU to actually be utilized.
No idea, I was just playing with shaders and ran into one that required Iris (which installs Sodium). I turned off the shaders and was like why am I getting 1k+ FPS š I personally don't see a degradation in graphics so I am just shocked at how amazing this is.
Meanwhile on Bedrock Edition I use 96 chunk render distance and roughly 150-200 fps. Doesnāt need to be any better than that for me. Edit: If youāre going to downvote for no reason, fine, but please do not reply about glitches. That joke is so overplayed and rooted in ignorance. There are *millions* of people who play Bedrock who have never experienced game-breaking glitches. Keep your toxicity to yourselves.
I'll take not randomly dying periodically for no reason over render distance I'll never actually see anyway, any day of the week.
That is frankly a virtually nonexistent issue. The premise of your comment is rooted in ignorance.
Based on what I see on social media, it's an issue that affects a good number of people. And it's a pretty major issue in my opinion - someone can randomly die and lose all their stuff due to a game bug... I don't know of any bug in Java edition that is that severe.
Bedrock Edition runs beautifully...until you actually play the game.
Does anyone know the logistics behind how the boost works?
You can read sodiumās mod pages or GitHub
What is "geometry pool" and how do I increase it? Mine is way lower than yours but my system isn't that much less powerful.
Try nvidium too if you have nvidia, helps with rendering a lot of chunks
I thought it didn't work on AMD, the guy from the video I saw about it kept saying that it only works with NVIDIA GPUs and that it won't do anything with AMD. Have I gotten bamboozled?
You are thinking of Nvidium. Thats a different mod which extends Sodium. But Sodium itself is hardware agnostic.
Over the course of the years, optifine has lost most, if not all of the performance gains it once had. With current Mojang implemented optimizations, I don't think otpfine makes any difference at all from Vanilla. There are a lot of mods that complements Sodium, try a modpack called Fabulously Optimized. It is really good and very well maintained, it includes most of the performance mods that are stable. If you play with a nvidea gpu and don't mind shaders, use nvidium. Use Bobby to increase render distance above 32 and behold your game running over 100 chunks at basically the same fps.
I do get a good performance bump with it but I wonder if it scales with more cores since I have a 4/8 core Ryzen. I also run 256 chunks with Distant Horizons so that might be why
Chunk loading and new chunk generation are multithreaded, but the main renderer is still single threaded. If you are standing still, more cores wont do anything. Sodium mostly scales with GPU performance, so if you have an iGPU model such as the 3400G, you're going to be limited by that before the CPU cores themselves.
What is your complete mod list? I use sodium with a higher end PC than that but canāt get above 140 at 32 chunks.
Woah you have a 1000hz monitor to make that matter :0
Just wait till OP finds out about Nvidium š Edit: Nevermind, OP has and gpu
How on earth would you even notice that though? Does 200 hundred even look any different than 1000? I kind of doubt itā¦ see I do not care about performance. Maybe I would if I had a massive world with a lot of data but for now 18-22 chunks at 60-80 fps is dandy.
Tried sodium on my low end laptop, the difference between that and Optifine was actually night and day.
Damn bro.
Just wait till you try out Nvidium and are able to run that fps but with 200 chunk render distance.
With sodium I'm getting 165 FPS on 33 chunk render distance. My GPU is the Rx 6600, idk if I should be expecting more
Okay, but why do someone actually needs so much fps when modern monitors at max have 360hz refresh rate?
Now try nvidium
Do you want more mods? Try: lithium, starlight, Bobby distant horizons since you have a amd gpu, I think thatāll get you good
Starlight is not needed for MC 1.20+.
Unless you have a good monitor with good refreahing rate it doesnt matter how may FPS you have, you will never see more then your Monitor can deliver. And in today worlds the best of the best moniotrs are at 500Hz
The smoothness is definitely perceivable even above your monitor's refresh rate. 1% lows and stuff like that matter.