To be fair, it was always about making us better workers. Universal education wasn't a thing before the industrial revolution necessitated at least some education on the part of workers as the methods of production became more advanced.
Can't tell if my life is strange or what, because my classmates and I all learned about how investing and compound interest is good for you in school. Not everyone cared enough to pay attention, which makes sense since we were children. But we were definitely told about it.
We didn't learn the exact details like the difference between traditional and ROTH, what index funds to put money into, etc. But at the very least we were taught what compound interest is and how impactful it is. A lot of people I know aren't ignorant of how important investing is, they just choose not to care about it because they'd rather have money now for instant gratification.
Economics class was the best for me personally. Had a blast.
I was able to take it as an elective class for two years. Sucks our school stopped offering it as a full class, last 2 years of HS it was incorporated into math class and social studies classes.
I remember there were only a few lessons taught the last two years. Simple supply & demand stuff, the concept of scarcity , and basic compounding interest lessons.
Our school had a fantastic teacher too. Dude spent his own money buying newspaper weekly because school didn't approve it. One of best lesson was paper trading , winner got lunch and extra credit.
They did teach about compound interest in school. I remember a HS math teacher telling us if we saved the cost of an expensive margarita ($25) each week and invested it in a mutual fund earning 11% annually starting at the age of 18, we'd have $1.62 million when we retired at 65. The trick was finding a fund that continually earned 11% consistently.
Minimum wage at the time was $4.25 per hour, so it meant essentially saving one day of your weekly earnings to invest.
This was in the 1990s, so over 30 years ago. Even if they don't teach this in schools, you can google 'how to grow wealth' these days and learn.
The last states to raise the drinking age did it in 1988, the minimum wage wasn't $4.25 until 1991.
Now I was a bit young in the early 90s, so maybe things were different, but in the mid 90s, things were pretty Puritan around alcohol. I can't imagine it being at all acceptable to talk about alcohol to highschool kids.
Behavior is caught. Learning to break the poverty cycle was difficult. I never knew you could buy a car with cash. Like, I thought you had to win the lottery or be born in lto a wealthy family to build wealth. That's pretty common btw.
Sir, I'm 36 years old and am now very well off financially. I'm talking about when I was a child, what I seen people do and not do. It was the only information I had to go off at the time.
I had the money talk with my parents after finding out they had no retirement and money just in checking and ZERO.5% interest savings. A lot of my cousins and stuff did the dumbest thing of storing cash in boxes at home because they don’t trust or understand banks.
It’s not a secret, but it just isn’t a thing that everyone is versed in. I’ve had the savings talk with friends who had never really put any effort into it too.
If you had those talks growing up that’s good. Not everyone did.
Tried talking to my friend about putting some money into savings every month or investing into the s&p, and he told me it's stupid and he'll have money from working when he's old to retire 😒 we're both 20
If I became somewhat knowledgeable about all topics that have ever been mentioned in my presence, I would be by far the most knowledgeable person alive.
My older sister and I have the same job but she got hired first. When I turned 18 and applied, she said, “you’re gonna have so much money you won’t know what to do with it”. It NEVER occurred to me to save. When I got a paycheck thought hmm what can I do with this which usually translated to what can I buy
I don't remember ever being directly taught about it from parents or school either, but as a kid I naturally would save my money if I ever got birthday or Christmas money.
The biggest thing with money comes down to discipline but fortunately discipline is something that can be learned over time.
That is the problem I speak of really. By the time you learn the lessons your way, you’re in your late 20s or early 30s. You’ve missed on years upon years of compounding interest. That’s the killer. All teens need to know that it takes very little to become wealthy, which is the purpose of my post. The discipline of financial decisions is huge, and most kids don’t understand it because it’s not taught to them by schools or parents. It’s just sad.
Teens and college kids have a much bigger problem than investing. Starting careers. Being paid well. Trying to avoid spending their money on all the things we do when they are in their 20’s. Invest? Screw that, I have to see Taylor Swift for $600 and then I am buying clothes and going out drinking on the weekends and dinners and brunch and trips and whoops I’m in debt. Between finding a job and keeping up with their friends it’s an uphill battle. Same as it ever was. Plus they don’t care about retirement. They want the money NOW. My high school and college definitely taught me about investing and saving for retirement. I chose not to listen back then. Fortunately I woke up later in life and still plan on early retirement in the next five years (hopefully sooner!).
100% agree but I don't think late 20's and even early 30's is all too late though. You can still compound for another 3 or 4 decades and sit nicely with retirement money.
It is there to be learned… the bigger issue is people knowing delayed gratification but choosing not to practice it. That’s a you problem…
You’re in charge of your life…
ThEy ShOuLd TeAcH tHiS iN sChOoL should be a meme at this point.
Bitch, they absolutely did teach you both this *and* the skills to pick up other life knowledge.
You just weren’t listening.
Same! I remember vividly learning about this stuff in school, and I similarly didn't make use of the knowledge. My finances currently suck, but I definitely knew that saving money was a thing. I just couldn't get my head around managing my money, and I was too ashamed to ask for help.
It’s totally fine as long as you learn now, but grown ass adults trying to pin down their lack of success to high school is laughable. Take some responsibility and be better.
I remember watching a film in the early 80s in middle school about how banks work and interest and all that stuff. In high school we learned how to keep check books etc. This was in BFE Texas when the education system was probably worse than it is now. I didn't listen and am pretty f-ed currently because I am just learning how to save and invest in my 50s, but it's not because nobody mentioned that saving money was something that people do.
Literally. Also don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to realize that setting a portion of your salary aside is needed to buy things like homes, phones, and cars. Like get real… I got my first job bussing at 16, 19 now and granted I do overspend but I’m sitting at 35K right now in a HYSA working as a server. I opened a HYSA as soon as I realized you could earn interest on your money. My school didn’t teach me about HYSA, but I learned about it myself. School did teach about how expensive life is and I remember my teachers constantly telling us how savings is important in math examples and economics. People like OP complain and victim blame. They’re the same people that have to about three cents in their savings because “they don’t know how to save”. Get real
Getting real tired of saying this: they taught you the foundations. That is what school is for.
A straight A student should know that, so I doubt you’re as smart as you think you are.
They absolutely *do not* teach this in schools. College/universities? Sure. You can take a class on finances.
But middle to high school, where I'm from, they do not teach this stuff.
They absolutely did, or at least the base knowledge so that you could learn it in adulthood. It just takes some fucking effort on your part.
**You just did not listen.** Grow up and stop blaming middle school on where you are at in life now.
They really did not. I don't know why you insist that. Every school system is set up differently. Unfortunately the state I live in, down to the county, doesn't put much effort into what students *should* learn.
Did I learn about our government in middle school? Sure. Did we watch schoolhouse Rock "I'm just a bill"? Yeah. But we did not learn economics to that level in 6/7/8th grade.
High school--we were shown how to become a registered voter at 16/17. 9th grade they made us watch les miserable over 2 class days 😂. No this was not towards the end of the year when we can slack off.
In junior year history class we learned a lot about us history and the wars in more detail.
My math courses stuck to the textbook/curriculum. They never deviated to monies.
I can't tell you what you want to hear, other than I did pay attention in school. I took ap classes for certain subjects of my choosing. I guarantee you they didn't teach me money in school.
I learned about compounding interest and apy/apr, etc etc in a liberal arts math course my freshman year of college.
You have to realize that whatever the education system was like or whatever school you were in at the time of your youth is teaching something *veeeryyy* different to those schools located in other states/districts and the current ed. System.
I guarantee you there was not.
Maybe a different public school had it in a different city nearby but certainly not mine. I graduated not that long ago, I think I would know what classes I took in high school.
You know every curriculum, in every school, in every state.
What a fucking dumb redditor. Who would pretend to know such a thing.
I bet you’re broke and follow this sub for inspiration.
I was taught some of it. Plus how to fill out taxes and a lease. It was a great class. I started saving at 18. 21 years later I'm good. I don't have FU money but I'm not far off.
No. Someone needed to tell the advantages of saving, how to save properly, how to invest appropriately, how to understand the basics of ETFs, mutual funds, etc.
Here's a new tip for you then - plan on 6% growth for retirement savings, not 10%. (As you mentioned a Roth I assume that's what the savings are for). At least 2% of the difference is inflation - by accounting for it up front in your calculation you won't need to do an additional calculation about purchasing power 42 years in the future. The rest accounts for excess inflation or subpar market returns. 10%, while accurate in the past 50 years, is optimistic when planning for retirement given future uncertainty. Always better to have more money than you planned for then being left out to dry and not being able to retire when you thought you'd be able to. Using this calculation, you can expect to have about $235,000 of spending power in today's money saving $25 a week after 42 years. You will have more money on paper but it will be worth less.
Retirement is about swr - not sp500 returns. You won’t be in full equities - and you need to guard against infusion and sorr. Have you learned about retirement savings at all? Trinity study? Any of this ringing a bell?
Given that OP was calculating savings from 18-60, I based everything I said off of growing a retirement account from a young age. Growth of that account should track the market for the first few decades. As you approach retirement yes you need to shift into bonds and such for capital preservation but in the beginning you can plan on much higher than 4% returns.
Interesting that out of everyone in the thread you chose to reply to me as I was advocating the most conservative growth number, with OP at 10% and someone else replying to me saying I should plan on 10+%. Maybe you did reply to them, I tried to check but I got tired of scrolling through your comment history and only made it 4 hours back.
Fucking crazy that you're trying to gatekeep retirement savings with that last line lmao
FYI - the reason people talk 4-6% returns is they are talking real returns - post-inflation. It’s more helpful to talk that as you can talk in today dollars instead of done future dollars that you don’t know what it’s with. You’re talking 10% in nominal returns.
In my state, consumer education is a required course credit to graduate high school, and there’s a bill that will update that and make it explicitly cover personal finance. So there are schools and curriculums where this is taught.
The question is, even if it were offered where/when you went to school, would you pay attention or even give a shit? Would you retain the information and subsequently put it into practice? I can confidently say a majority of high schoolers wouldn’t.
Agreed. I don’t think high school kids realize how easy it is to build wealth. They all think millions of dollars is only for those that already have it. That is a common theme taught by a liberal education system.
Look even if they did teach in school would anybody actually apply that knowledge and pay attention to details? Just taking a class on how and why to save doesn’t mean too much unless you’re willing to apply it.
I was addressing your statement in the beginning about how they don’t teach this in school. What I’m trying to say is doesn’t matter how hard try sometimes, it takes the right personality to actually apply these concepts.
Man people really need to stop pretending they don’t teach this shit. Economics is a mandatory class to graduate high school.
What they do teach about is the more complicated stuff, but budgeting, saving, interest, and compound interest is all taught well above a level needed to understand the concept.
“If only someone told me” you would not have listened anyway. School gives you the tools to self-learn. Outsourcing responsibility will always leave you under prepared in life. Take responsibility.
Compound interest is black magic.
So is compound inflation.
Someone who starts now investing $50 a week or $210 a month will indeed have $1.3M in 42 years, however…
$1.3M in 42 years has the purchasing power of $455K today or roughly six years of the median household income.
That’s assuming only 2.5% inflation each year.
Saving is absolutely worth it and you should do it, but you have to measure the dollars in the time you’re going to use them.
Agreed. Starting with $25 each week when you have next to nothing makes it easier to commit to larger retirement contributions as you get older with better paying jobs. It’s about the principle, not the numbers.
It's because personal finance is stupid easy math. Like literally 5th grade math. The reason people to make it anywhere is because they don't address that 80% of personal finance is behavior and 20% head knowledge. The math is easy. Controlling the man in the mirror takes alot of learning.
Absolutely 💯 this is what is missing for our youth. Imagine a generation that grows up knowing how to invest, not going 100k in debt for school loans, and everyone cutting their credit cards. The world could transform.
Did the person who taught you about compound interest tell you how to get 10% on your investment every year for 42 years? Because if they did i’d like to know.
[That is the average return for the S&P 500 over the last 70 or so years](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp#:~:text=The%20index%20has%20returned%20a,will%20not%20enjoy%20such%20returns.)
The more intuitive return to use in calculations would be around 7% to account for inflation.
7% is the widely used metric for s&p 500 returns adjusted for inflation. Basically if you calculate your return as only 7%/year, then the resulting value at some future date can be understood as having the same purchasing power as it does now.
Is very sad that you are not learning this at school. We are foreigns living in US, and I learned this when I was 8 years old.
Is really sad, frustrating and concerning the lack of financial education you get here in the “richest” country in the world.
Never is too late to learn, look for financial education videos on youtube, read financial books, join a money club, etc.
They taught you compound interest in grade 8 most likely. In fact they used examples like if xx is invested every month for 10 years it will become yy, compounded zz% monthly or annually. You just never applied it to your own life. I didnt either honestly- but I never blame it on schooling. We lacked creativity.
I taught myself outside of public school. I am currently 19 and with my plan of working year round and college ill be consistently putting money into a roth ira I started at 18 1/2 y/o while having absolutely no debt from my Mech Eng degree. I plan to work really hard and get 2 or 3 full paid properties by 30 and continue to max 401k and Roth IRA each year for as long as I can. I dont plan to retire early but fi I hit like 10 mil in the savings I might just stop then but who knows
Always max your ROTH first. CY2024 ROTH limit is $7k. ROTH is money invested that you’ve already paid taxes on. All money put into the ROTH and any gains made in the ROTH… will never be taxed if you pull the funds out on or after you reach 62 years old. Max that and then do into your 401(k). Always contribute whatever it takes to get the largest 401(k) match from your employer if they offer it.
EDIT: 59-1/2 years old, not 62
You can do a ROTH in so many places now. Online brokerages offer ROTH accounts (Fidelity, Vanguard, Robinhood, WeBull, etc.). A true fiduciary money manager will help you and guide you. Unfortunately, many are out to sell a specific product. I’m not offering recommendations, but I’ve had great success using Robinhood due to the easy UI, but this brokerage is just a brokerage. They don’t offer financial advice. Depending on your level of trading experience, this may or may not be good for you. Research ETFs for long term saving. Warren Buffett likes VOO and I’m in it heavily. Start researching to learn what works best for you.
Roth and Traditional are variants of 401Ks (and IRAs). Roth means that the money you put in (contributions) are after tax meaning you pay your income tax on them now, so when you withdraw, presumably during retirement, you don't pay any taxes. Traditional is the opposite. You don't pay taxes on the money now, but you will when you withdraw. As a rule of thumb, if you are in the 24% federal tax bracket or higher, it is better to use traditional. Otherwise Roth is usually better. There are exceptions to this of course.
Yeah, no one taught me shit or supported me and I'm playing catch up. That's $300 a month, my ass is over here shoveling away over 2,000 a month in trying to catch up lol.
Thanks! Trying to balance living today and saving for tomorrow is difficult when you're behind! I'm on track for a solid retirement if nothing really bad happens though. That's not counting on any social security.
Tried to figure that out assuming it exists when I'm older but since I didn't make money most my life I have no clue how it'll work out if it even does exist in 25 years. Can't be focused on relying on it government anyway.
I would definitely plan on no social security. Do I think it’ll ever fail? I do not. However, I don’t plan on recording it for my retirement plan. Always better to plan to succeed on your own than rely on govt agencies.
Yup, I see a lot that think it'll fail or be axed by then. I also don't think it will the implications for the country as a whole if that happened would be a whole different level.
Either way, I'd rather plan without it and be happy if it's there.
It wouldn’t have mattered for me. I didn’t have money to save until I was near 40, and have been doing my best since then.
In my area not many kids have 100-200$ to invest.
It would be great if finances were taught, along with a way to obtain wealth.
I taught compound interest simple interest and different types of savings. It's part of the curriculum. I also had a class store that I charged different taxes on using fake money they earned. This stuff is taught. Also parents should be teaching kids stuff as well. Everything should be up to the underfunded and over worked schools.
You are correct. Parents should be teaching this. It’s unfortunate many don’t. High school kids need to hear this principle in a way they can understand, comprehend, and WANT to put into practice. Unfortunately, they often don’t want to.
I learned about it as a kid. My dad would go on about it all the time starting from when I was like in 1st grade, but we would all make fun of him :(
Anyways now I'm 30 years old and only started to take it seriously 2 years ago. Im now at $14.5k in my fidelity accounts and wish I started 10 years ago. Actually, I wish I started when I was in 1st grade. Or at least paid attention and cared about what my dad was saying then 🙃🥲
I hear you. Many more people share this story than those that start young. The end goal is attainable, it just takes discipline and fundamental financial decisions. Keep grinding.
Also the power of HYS account I wasted so much extra free money just because I was storing all my money in a student checking account I opened when I was 18 that was just sitting there doing nothing
The thing is stuff you want to buy will also go up in price.
The median price of a house in 1974 was ~$35,000. The median price of a house today is ~$350,000.
You start saving $25 today, yes you might have $640,000 in 50 years. But keep in mind in 50 years, a house might cost on average $3.5M if it grows at same rate as the last 50 years.
So you won't get rich doing this.
No one is talking about getting rich. If you start with $25 each week when you are 18 when you have little to no money, imagine how much easier it is to increase the contribution when you get a good paying job. Obviously the goal is to contribute to retirement at 15% or more of your gross pay. But it takes work and relying on the principles of investing to get there. Everyone has to start somewhere.
https://www.investor.gov/financial-tools-calculators/calculators/compound-interest-calculator
This is a great tool to use for wealth projection. Adjust the contribution amount, rate of return, take into consideration inflation, and find a number that works for you in your situation. No two people have the same financial situation. Make it up as you go, but stick to financial principles as a whole.
This was taught in my high school. My problem was, at 17 I maybe only had $20/week to spend. Age 60 seemed so far off and my friends were doing things that weekend, so it always seemed better to go out and spend the $20. I think the bigger challenge, aside from just the math involved, is getting someone who has no experience managing money or time to realize how important both are, and to think beyond what's right in front of them. I just started a Roth at age 36. I still have a ways to go to retirement, but that time seems to go a lot faster than it used to. Better late than never I guess, but I could be quite a bit farther ahead than I am now.
When I would get paid as a youngster, age 12-19, my only thought would be, "OK what should I spend it on?"
No one ever talked about saving, let alone investing. And when I did finally start hearing about investing, my thoughts were, we'll I'm not rich. I already don't make enough to last until next payday. So I don't have money to invest. Thought i just needed to make more. Then my income doubled, and I still wasn't investing, still wasn't saving, still paycheck to paycheck. Something clicked, and I knew something was wrong. If my income could double and I still wasn't making progress, maybe it isn't a math/numbers problem? Maybe I'm the problem? Then some old guy was calling me an idiot on the radio and I agreed with him. Our financial life has been a massive hockey stick up and to the right ever since.
You are correct. There should be a high school class about money and finances. Everyone doesn’t have the luxury of having parents and grandparents like I had who were not rich but understood money and finance and taught me a lot.
If you are invested in a s&p 500-tracking fund or something similar, you absolutely can assume 10% returns. Past performance does not guarantee future gains, but it is certainly a sound basis for an assumption of those future gains.
Since 1957, the S&P 500's average annual rate of return has been approximately **10.5%** (through March 2023) and around 6.6% after adjusting for inflation.
Exactly. That's really my point. Based on that I would absolutely assume 10% gains. Inflation doesn't change this. It obviously affects the purchasing power of my investments, but not the dollar value.
Edit: Are recommending assuming more than 10% ? Like 10.5%? Because if so then I totally misinterpreted your point. I assumed you were saying 10% was too high, not too low
At 20 years old I was introduced to A L Williams where the platform strategy was buy cheaper term life insurance, as opposed to more expensive whole life, and invest the difference in mutual funds. This was a craze that I did start but didn’t fully understand it so I needed up cashing the balance out when I got married. Also a former employer did his best to get me to invest money, o just wouldn’t listen to him because I didn’t get it and was basically embarrassed to admit it to him. I did end up starting an IRA under his plan, to which I quit contributing when I left. It’s grown nicely over the years. I just wish I’d had the capacity to understand early on the importance and what just a little now can amount to at retirement age. I was very slow to get on the bandwagon and still feel like I’m way behind. 539k now with hopefully 1M+ by retirement… I’m now saving like a
Madman, over $1500/month, to try and reach that goal…. That’s a lot of money to me. Y’all take note and save that money… don’t do what I did and use “I don’t understand investing” as a crutch to not invest.
My Dad was worried about money, but what really got me started was a lecture from the company’s 401k vendor at my first job out of school. He basically told us to at a minimum put in 6% to get the company’s 50% match maxed out. I think I put 10% per year in from there on out. Somehow I knew not to trust my brother when he said I should not be doing so and saving for some grad school plans I had at the time. That was 36 years ago and has worked out: a 2 hour meeting with the 401k company. Sadly, I haven’t seen even that much repeated for Emoloyee’s of other companies I’ve worked for.
Have you ever learned about opportunity costs? When I was 18 and a freshman in college, $25 was more than my weekly budget for partying. 18 year old me needed that $1300 (52 weeks of $25) more than 60 year-old me expects to need the $70k it would have grown to at a hypothetical 10% return through age 60. No regrets.
Now calculate that as if you are the parent adding that money to your child's account setting them up for success.
By adding an additional 18 years it is almost incomparable.
I don’t disagree. This is not a fire and forget principle. As someone’s income increases, so should the retirement contribution. This post was simply to show that an amount (that won’t be missed) can do so much for someone. The goal is always to save 15% (or more if one’s budget can support it) of one’s gross income, but only after paying off all consumer debt (mortgage debt is not consumer debt in this case).
Isn’t Roth maxed out at 7k? I’m 23 and max it out every year since it’s “free money” i want to put more in but with rent, hobbies, and everything else it’s hard lol. Also why 10% don’t they average closer to 6-7%?
I learned about it in economics class. But I didn’t take it seriously till about 28 years old. Wasted time that I could have been investing.
Damn same as you bud. Been working since 18 and I don’t have much to show for it.
98% of kids who went to public have no idea how money works. I swear they purposely do this but idk why.
A poor stupid population is better than a wealthy educated one.
Yep. It's almost like politicians and the wealthy "love the poorly educated".
Because school isn't about teaching anymore. It's about making us good workers.
To be fair, it was always about making us better workers. Universal education wasn't a thing before the industrial revolution necessitated at least some education on the part of workers as the methods of production became more advanced.
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Honestly, a class before or after school (that’s optional for students) would be lovely.
It’s literally taught in school… it’s in the person to learn and use what’s taught.
Can't tell if my life is strange or what, because my classmates and I all learned about how investing and compound interest is good for you in school. Not everyone cared enough to pay attention, which makes sense since we were children. But we were definitely told about it. We didn't learn the exact details like the difference between traditional and ROTH, what index funds to put money into, etc. But at the very least we were taught what compound interest is and how impactful it is. A lot of people I know aren't ignorant of how important investing is, they just choose not to care about it because they'd rather have money now for instant gratification.
In the age of information, ignorance is a choice
Very true. But you don’t know what you don’t know.
Keep people poor, those poor people keep feeding the broken system, breeding more children who will also feed the system. Its by design.
🙄
They’re not purposely not teaching us. But no one cares enough to teach us.
Half the teachers don’t know either. But I know this - when I try to tell people how to do it, most never follow through.
Really if your company offers investment options then you’re more likely to invest and save.
Because if we could all retire at 35 or even 45, who would they hire?
🙄 It’s a conspiracy that you’re stupid about personal finance?!?!
Economics class was the best for me personally. Had a blast. I was able to take it as an elective class for two years. Sucks our school stopped offering it as a full class, last 2 years of HS it was incorporated into math class and social studies classes. I remember there were only a few lessons taught the last two years. Simple supply & demand stuff, the concept of scarcity , and basic compounding interest lessons. Our school had a fantastic teacher too. Dude spent his own money buying newspaper weekly because school didn't approve it. One of best lesson was paper trading , winner got lunch and extra credit.
I'm 28 and still know nothing, I've a bit more wasting to do before I learn
Same, now between my wife and i we are investing about 2500 a month at 35
I feel this
They did teach about compound interest in school. I remember a HS math teacher telling us if we saved the cost of an expensive margarita ($25) each week and invested it in a mutual fund earning 11% annually starting at the age of 18, we'd have $1.62 million when we retired at 65. The trick was finding a fund that continually earned 11% consistently. Minimum wage at the time was $4.25 per hour, so it meant essentially saving one day of your weekly earnings to invest. This was in the 1990s, so over 30 years ago. Even if they don't teach this in schools, you can google 'how to grow wealth' these days and learn.
That's one hell of an expensive margarita, especially for the 90s.
Also why is a teacher talking about margaritas with highschool kids?
Drinking age was 18 in many states until the 90s
The last states to raise the drinking age did it in 1988, the minimum wage wasn't $4.25 until 1991. Now I was a bit young in the early 90s, so maybe things were different, but in the mid 90s, things were pretty Puritan around alcohol. I can't imagine it being at all acceptable to talk about alcohol to highschool kids.
I started saving and investing at 17 because of gta. U shoulda been gaming
Roller Coaster Tycoon and The Sims were surprisingly good teachers
I don’t understand the correlation, how does GTA motivate someone to save/invest, esp a minor?
The game is all about investing in either passive or active businesses and they’re the only way to make money quick in the game
We must have been playing completely different games. I just wanted to follow the story, jump cars as high as I could and bang hookers.
I learned about this in highschool algebra.
I find it hard to believe that not a single person mentioned saving to you.
It can happen. No one in my family Ever talked to me about saving and finances.
Okay, but surely someone else mentioned saving money somewhere in your life.
Everything known to man is available in your hand…
Behavior is caught. Learning to break the poverty cycle was difficult. I never knew you could buy a car with cash. Like, I thought you had to win the lottery or be born in lto a wealthy family to build wealth. That's pretty common btw.
I realize people start in different places.
You learn by watching both what people do and don’t do
Sir, I'm 36 years old and am now very well off financially. I'm talking about when I was a child, what I seen people do and not do. It was the only information I had to go off at the time.
I had the money talk with my parents after finding out they had no retirement and money just in checking and ZERO.5% interest savings. A lot of my cousins and stuff did the dumbest thing of storing cash in boxes at home because they don’t trust or understand banks. It’s not a secret, but it just isn’t a thing that everyone is versed in. I’ve had the savings talk with friends who had never really put any effort into it too. If you had those talks growing up that’s good. Not everyone did.
Tried talking to my friend about putting some money into savings every month or investing into the s&p, and he told me it's stupid and he'll have money from working when he's old to retire 😒 we're both 20
It’s not that personal finance is a secret - it’s that people don’t want to delay gratification. That’s on them…
Couldn't have said it better
If I became somewhat knowledgeable about all topics that have ever been mentioned in my presence, I would be by far the most knowledgeable person alive.
My older sister and I have the same job but she got hired first. When I turned 18 and applied, she said, “you’re gonna have so much money you won’t know what to do with it”. It NEVER occurred to me to save. When I got a paycheck thought hmm what can I do with this which usually translated to what can I buy
90% of America probably don't have savings and are living pay cheque to pay cheque
Your # is dumbfuckery…
That doesn't mean that no one told any of them about saving.
I don't remember ever being directly taught about it from parents or school either, but as a kid I naturally would save my money if I ever got birthday or Christmas money. The biggest thing with money comes down to discipline but fortunately discipline is something that can be learned over time.
That is the problem I speak of really. By the time you learn the lessons your way, you’re in your late 20s or early 30s. You’ve missed on years upon years of compounding interest. That’s the killer. All teens need to know that it takes very little to become wealthy, which is the purpose of my post. The discipline of financial decisions is huge, and most kids don’t understand it because it’s not taught to them by schools or parents. It’s just sad.
Teens and college kids have a much bigger problem than investing. Starting careers. Being paid well. Trying to avoid spending their money on all the things we do when they are in their 20’s. Invest? Screw that, I have to see Taylor Swift for $600 and then I am buying clothes and going out drinking on the weekends and dinners and brunch and trips and whoops I’m in debt. Between finding a job and keeping up with their friends it’s an uphill battle. Same as it ever was. Plus they don’t care about retirement. They want the money NOW. My high school and college definitely taught me about investing and saving for retirement. I chose not to listen back then. Fortunately I woke up later in life and still plan on early retirement in the next five years (hopefully sooner!).
100% agree but I don't think late 20's and even early 30's is all too late though. You can still compound for another 3 or 4 decades and sit nicely with retirement money.
It is there to be learned… the bigger issue is people knowing delayed gratification but choosing not to practice it. That’s a you problem… You’re in charge of your life…
ThEy ShOuLd TeAcH tHiS iN sChOoL should be a meme at this point. Bitch, they absolutely did teach you both this *and* the skills to pick up other life knowledge. You just weren’t listening.
Lol facts, they told me about this like 3 different times, but for some reason i couldnt give af 🥲
Same! I remember vividly learning about this stuff in school, and I similarly didn't make use of the knowledge. My finances currently suck, but I definitely knew that saving money was a thing. I just couldn't get my head around managing my money, and I was too ashamed to ask for help.
It’s totally fine as long as you learn now, but grown ass adults trying to pin down their lack of success to high school is laughable. Take some responsibility and be better.
Amen
I remember watching a film in the early 80s in middle school about how banks work and interest and all that stuff. In high school we learned how to keep check books etc. This was in BFE Texas when the education system was probably worse than it is now. I didn't listen and am pretty f-ed currently because I am just learning how to save and invest in my 50s, but it's not because nobody mentioned that saving money was something that people do.
I had at least 3 teachers bring up the rule of 72. We even did an investing challenge our senior year
No idea what rule that is. I'd love to learn if you care to explain :)
Easily Google able but it basically means at 10% return your money doubles roughly every 7 years
Literally. Also don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to realize that setting a portion of your salary aside is needed to buy things like homes, phones, and cars. Like get real… I got my first job bussing at 16, 19 now and granted I do overspend but I’m sitting at 35K right now in a HYSA working as a server. I opened a HYSA as soon as I realized you could earn interest on your money. My school didn’t teach me about HYSA, but I learned about it myself. School did teach about how expensive life is and I remember my teachers constantly telling us how savings is important in math examples and economics. People like OP complain and victim blame. They’re the same people that have to about three cents in their savings because “they don’t know how to save”. Get real
I was a straight A kid, they 100% did not teach us about the stock market or 401ks.
Getting real tired of saying this: they taught you the foundations. That is what school is for. A straight A student should know that, so I doubt you’re as smart as you think you are.
Being this rude doesn’t make you smart or funny.
I didn’t learn about this in school. I do think it should be a bigger point of emphasis than it is
They absolutely *do not* teach this in schools. College/universities? Sure. You can take a class on finances. But middle to high school, where I'm from, they do not teach this stuff.
They absolutely did, or at least the base knowledge so that you could learn it in adulthood. It just takes some fucking effort on your part. **You just did not listen.** Grow up and stop blaming middle school on where you are at in life now.
They really did not. I don't know why you insist that. Every school system is set up differently. Unfortunately the state I live in, down to the county, doesn't put much effort into what students *should* learn. Did I learn about our government in middle school? Sure. Did we watch schoolhouse Rock "I'm just a bill"? Yeah. But we did not learn economics to that level in 6/7/8th grade. High school--we were shown how to become a registered voter at 16/17. 9th grade they made us watch les miserable over 2 class days 😂. No this was not towards the end of the year when we can slack off. In junior year history class we learned a lot about us history and the wars in more detail. My math courses stuck to the textbook/curriculum. They never deviated to monies. I can't tell you what you want to hear, other than I did pay attention in school. I took ap classes for certain subjects of my choosing. I guarantee you they didn't teach me money in school. I learned about compounding interest and apy/apr, etc etc in a liberal arts math course my freshman year of college. You have to realize that whatever the education system was like or whatever school you were in at the time of your youth is teaching something *veeeryyy* different to those schools located in other states/districts and the current ed. System.
I guarantee there was a business class in your high school that covered this. Either you didn’t take it, didn’t learn it, or chose to not use it.
I guarantee you there was not. Maybe a different public school had it in a different city nearby but certainly not mine. I graduated not that long ago, I think I would know what classes I took in high school.
You know every curriculum, in every school, in every state. What a fucking dumb redditor. Who would pretend to know such a thing. I bet you’re broke and follow this sub for inspiration.
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I was taught some of it. Plus how to fill out taxes and a lease. It was a great class. I started saving at 18. 21 years later I'm good. I don't have FU money but I'm not far off.
That’s awesome. Good for you. That takes discipline and it sounds like you got it.
Did you also know that your 640k after 42 years will have a buying power of $200k?
Someone needs to tell you to save money?
No. Someone needed to tell the advantages of saving, how to save properly, how to invest appropriately, how to understand the basics of ETFs, mutual funds, etc.
Here's a new tip for you then - plan on 6% growth for retirement savings, not 10%. (As you mentioned a Roth I assume that's what the savings are for). At least 2% of the difference is inflation - by accounting for it up front in your calculation you won't need to do an additional calculation about purchasing power 42 years in the future. The rest accounts for excess inflation or subpar market returns. 10%, while accurate in the past 50 years, is optimistic when planning for retirement given future uncertainty. Always better to have more money than you planned for then being left out to dry and not being able to retire when you thought you'd be able to. Using this calculation, you can expect to have about $235,000 of spending power in today's money saving $25 a week after 42 years. You will have more money on paper but it will be worth less.
Retirement is about swr - not sp500 returns. You won’t be in full equities - and you need to guard against infusion and sorr. Have you learned about retirement savings at all? Trinity study? Any of this ringing a bell?
Given that OP was calculating savings from 18-60, I based everything I said off of growing a retirement account from a young age. Growth of that account should track the market for the first few decades. As you approach retirement yes you need to shift into bonds and such for capital preservation but in the beginning you can plan on much higher than 4% returns. Interesting that out of everyone in the thread you chose to reply to me as I was advocating the most conservative growth number, with OP at 10% and someone else replying to me saying I should plan on 10+%. Maybe you did reply to them, I tried to check but I got tired of scrolling through your comment history and only made it 4 hours back. Fucking crazy that you're trying to gatekeep retirement savings with that last line lmao
I read the discussion as swr and not returns.
FYI - the reason people talk 4-6% returns is they are talking real returns - post-inflation. It’s more helpful to talk that as you can talk in today dollars instead of done future dollars that you don’t know what it’s with. You’re talking 10% in nominal returns.
Everything you need to know is on the internet in palm of your hand. It’s not rocket science…
You’re right. But if no one is there to show someone where to start, many don’t know where to start.
Gotta own your life… we learn about delayed gratification in preschool…
Walk into any bank and you get started…
If you think opening a bank account is investing and saving… you’re delusional
You need to be taught delayed gratification? How to open a bank account? How to save?
In my state, consumer education is a required course credit to graduate high school, and there’s a bill that will update that and make it explicitly cover personal finance. So there are schools and curriculums where this is taught. The question is, even if it were offered where/when you went to school, would you pay attention or even give a shit? Would you retain the information and subsequently put it into practice? I can confidently say a majority of high schoolers wouldn’t.
Agreed. I don’t think high school kids realize how easy it is to build wealth. They all think millions of dollars is only for those that already have it. That is a common theme taught by a liberal education system.
Benjamin Franklin once said "Money makes money. And the money that money makes, makes money."
Look even if they did teach in school would anybody actually apply that knowledge and pay attention to details? Just taking a class on how and why to save doesn’t mean too much unless you’re willing to apply it.
This is nothing about taking a class. This is about changing viewpoints on finances, financial planning, and how to succeed financially.
I was addressing your statement in the beginning about how they don’t teach this in school. What I’m trying to say is doesn’t matter how hard try sometimes, it takes the right personality to actually apply these concepts.
I hear you. They teach compounding interest, but not the importance of saving and hope to set yourself up early on.
I was taught all this in school. You sure you were paying attention in class??
What if you invest $250 a week.
$250 per week from age 18 to 60 is over $6.4M. The key is to start early and contribute often.
They do teach this in school. You just were too young to care
I have been putting In since i was 18 and at 28 i have a little over 50k. Its growing faster and faster as it goes up. Super exciting
Nicely done. Good work. I can’t wait until you post your million dollar net worth some day. Keep grinding.
Thanks! Let’s hope a million is worth something still by the time i get there lol 😂
In case anyone wants to run the numbers yourself: https://www.investor.gov/financial-tools-calculators/calculators/compound-interest-calculator
Man people really need to stop pretending they don’t teach this shit. Economics is a mandatory class to graduate high school. What they do teach about is the more complicated stuff, but budgeting, saving, interest, and compound interest is all taught well above a level needed to understand the concept.
“If only someone told me” you would not have listened anyway. School gives you the tools to self-learn. Outsourcing responsibility will always leave you under prepared in life. Take responsibility.
Yep. Gotta start somewhere.
Compound interest is black magic. So is compound inflation. Someone who starts now investing $50 a week or $210 a month will indeed have $1.3M in 42 years, however… $1.3M in 42 years has the purchasing power of $455K today or roughly six years of the median household income. That’s assuming only 2.5% inflation each year. Saving is absolutely worth it and you should do it, but you have to measure the dollars in the time you’re going to use them.
Agreed. Starting with $25 each week when you have next to nothing makes it easier to commit to larger retirement contributions as you get older with better paying jobs. It’s about the principle, not the numbers.
They do teach it in school. Kids just don’t pay attention or care.
It's because personal finance is stupid easy math. Like literally 5th grade math. The reason people to make it anywhere is because they don't address that 80% of personal finance is behavior and 20% head knowledge. The math is easy. Controlling the man in the mirror takes alot of learning.
Absolutely 💯 this is what is missing for our youth. Imagine a generation that grows up knowing how to invest, not going 100k in debt for school loans, and everyone cutting their credit cards. The world could transform.
Teachers don’t get paid enough to get the blame on this. Parents should be teaching you that, or you taking the time out to research
Did the person who taught you about compound interest tell you how to get 10% on your investment every year for 42 years? Because if they did i’d like to know.
[That is the average return for the S&P 500 over the last 70 or so years](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp#:~:text=The%20index%20has%20returned%20a,will%20not%20enjoy%20such%20returns.) The more intuitive return to use in calculations would be around 7% to account for inflation.
Oh ok yea I had in my head it was closer to 7% that is great return.
The average return of the S&P 500 is a bit better than 10%. Includes up and down years.
Wow thats more than I thought, I was under the impression it was closer to 7%
7% is the widely used metric for s&p 500 returns adjusted for inflation. Basically if you calculate your return as only 7%/year, then the resulting value at some future date can be understood as having the same purchasing power as it does now.
Is very sad that you are not learning this at school. We are foreigns living in US, and I learned this when I was 8 years old. Is really sad, frustrating and concerning the lack of financial education you get here in the “richest” country in the world. Never is too late to learn, look for financial education videos on youtube, read financial books, join a money club, etc.
Yeah I'm American and I learned this in school long before I could drive. Guess they don't teach economics any longer. Pity. Great job Dept. of Ed.
How old are you? I’m 37 and they didn’t teach it when I was in school. I graduated in 2005.
They taught you compound interest in grade 8 most likely. In fact they used examples like if xx is invested every month for 10 years it will become yy, compounded zz% monthly or annually. You just never applied it to your own life. I didnt either honestly- but I never blame it on schooling. We lacked creativity.
47, graduated in 1995...guess somewhere in there is the window of failure.
The rich rely on the ignorant here, unfortunately
Compound interest baby!
I taught myself outside of public school. I am currently 19 and with my plan of working year round and college ill be consistently putting money into a roth ira I started at 18 1/2 y/o while having absolutely no debt from my Mech Eng degree. I plan to work really hard and get 2 or 3 full paid properties by 30 and continue to max 401k and Roth IRA each year for as long as I can. I dont plan to retire early but fi I hit like 10 mil in the savings I might just stop then but who knows
Good for you!! I have no doubt you’ll get there with this type of mindset at 19. Keep grinding!!
Is a Roth better then a 401k?
Always max your ROTH first. CY2024 ROTH limit is $7k. ROTH is money invested that you’ve already paid taxes on. All money put into the ROTH and any gains made in the ROTH… will never be taxed if you pull the funds out on or after you reach 62 years old. Max that and then do into your 401(k). Always contribute whatever it takes to get the largest 401(k) match from your employer if they offer it. EDIT: 59-1/2 years old, not 62
Can I start my own Roth? So I just ask a bank? Which is best for it?
You can do a ROTH in so many places now. Online brokerages offer ROTH accounts (Fidelity, Vanguard, Robinhood, WeBull, etc.). A true fiduciary money manager will help you and guide you. Unfortunately, many are out to sell a specific product. I’m not offering recommendations, but I’ve had great success using Robinhood due to the easy UI, but this brokerage is just a brokerage. They don’t offer financial advice. Depending on your level of trading experience, this may or may not be good for you. Research ETFs for long term saving. Warren Buffett likes VOO and I’m in it heavily. Start researching to learn what works best for you.
No, it depends on how much you make to know whether Roth or traditional is best. Just stop talking…
You’re such a tool
Roth and Traditional are variants of 401Ks (and IRAs). Roth means that the money you put in (contributions) are after tax meaning you pay your income tax on them now, so when you withdraw, presumably during retirement, you don't pay any taxes. Traditional is the opposite. You don't pay taxes on the money now, but you will when you withdraw. As a rule of thumb, if you are in the 24% federal tax bracket or higher, it is better to use traditional. Otherwise Roth is usually better. There are exceptions to this of course.
Thanks!
Yeah, no one taught me shit or supported me and I'm playing catch up. That's $300 a month, my ass is over here shoveling away over 2,000 a month in trying to catch up lol.
Good for you. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! Trying to balance living today and saving for tomorrow is difficult when you're behind! I'm on track for a solid retirement if nothing really bad happens though. That's not counting on any social security. Tried to figure that out assuming it exists when I'm older but since I didn't make money most my life I have no clue how it'll work out if it even does exist in 25 years. Can't be focused on relying on it government anyway.
I would definitely plan on no social security. Do I think it’ll ever fail? I do not. However, I don’t plan on recording it for my retirement plan. Always better to plan to succeed on your own than rely on govt agencies.
Yup, I see a lot that think it'll fail or be axed by then. I also don't think it will the implications for the country as a whole if that happened would be a whole different level. Either way, I'd rather plan without it and be happy if it's there.
No I never had a class in school about savings and investing money. Should be taught in school and at least by high school.
It wouldn’t have mattered for me. I didn’t have money to save until I was near 40, and have been doing my best since then. In my area not many kids have 100-200$ to invest. It would be great if finances were taught, along with a way to obtain wealth.
So if I am 29, what would be the contribution I should put to “catch up” to that figure?
Approx $75 per week from age 29 to 60 would be roughly $640k. Approx $156 per week for that same time frame would be roughly $1.3M.
I taught compound interest simple interest and different types of savings. It's part of the curriculum. I also had a class store that I charged different taxes on using fake money they earned. This stuff is taught. Also parents should be teaching kids stuff as well. Everything should be up to the underfunded and over worked schools.
You are correct. Parents should be teaching this. It’s unfortunate many don’t. High school kids need to hear this principle in a way they can understand, comprehend, and WANT to put into practice. Unfortunately, they often don’t want to.
I learned about it as a kid. My dad would go on about it all the time starting from when I was like in 1st grade, but we would all make fun of him :( Anyways now I'm 30 years old and only started to take it seriously 2 years ago. Im now at $14.5k in my fidelity accounts and wish I started 10 years ago. Actually, I wish I started when I was in 1st grade. Or at least paid attention and cared about what my dad was saying then 🙃🥲
I hear you. Many more people share this story than those that start young. The end goal is attainable, it just takes discipline and fundamental financial decisions. Keep grinding.
Im glad I started at 18
Good work. Keep grinding.
You too bro
Also the power of HYS account I wasted so much extra free money just because I was storing all my money in a student checking account I opened when I was 18 that was just sitting there doing nothing
The thing is stuff you want to buy will also go up in price. The median price of a house in 1974 was ~$35,000. The median price of a house today is ~$350,000. You start saving $25 today, yes you might have $640,000 in 50 years. But keep in mind in 50 years, a house might cost on average $3.5M if it grows at same rate as the last 50 years. So you won't get rich doing this.
No one is talking about getting rich. If you start with $25 each week when you are 18 when you have little to no money, imagine how much easier it is to increase the contribution when you get a good paying job. Obviously the goal is to contribute to retirement at 15% or more of your gross pay. But it takes work and relying on the principles of investing to get there. Everyone has to start somewhere.
https://www.investor.gov/financial-tools-calculators/calculators/compound-interest-calculator This is a great tool to use for wealth projection. Adjust the contribution amount, rate of return, take into consideration inflation, and find a number that works for you in your situation. No two people have the same financial situation. Make it up as you go, but stick to financial principles as a whole.
I’m fortunate that I got my shit together by 27. I’m 35 now and set to retire by 55 with a $10k investment per year
Great work. Keep grinding.
This was taught in my high school. My problem was, at 17 I maybe only had $20/week to spend. Age 60 seemed so far off and my friends were doing things that weekend, so it always seemed better to go out and spend the $20. I think the bigger challenge, aside from just the math involved, is getting someone who has no experience managing money or time to realize how important both are, and to think beyond what's right in front of them. I just started a Roth at age 36. I still have a ways to go to retirement, but that time seems to go a lot faster than it used to. Better late than never I guess, but I could be quite a bit farther ahead than I am now.
Good for you for taking those steps at 36. Sometimes it’s hard to make decisions you’ve never made before. Your self at 60 will thank you.
When I would get paid as a youngster, age 12-19, my only thought would be, "OK what should I spend it on?" No one ever talked about saving, let alone investing. And when I did finally start hearing about investing, my thoughts were, we'll I'm not rich. I already don't make enough to last until next payday. So I don't have money to invest. Thought i just needed to make more. Then my income doubled, and I still wasn't investing, still wasn't saving, still paycheck to paycheck. Something clicked, and I knew something was wrong. If my income could double and I still wasn't making progress, maybe it isn't a math/numbers problem? Maybe I'm the problem? Then some old guy was calling me an idiot on the radio and I agreed with him. Our financial life has been a massive hockey stick up and to the right ever since.
Great job. Up and to the right is key. Keep grinding
You are correct. There should be a high school class about money and finances. Everyone doesn’t have the luxury of having parents and grandparents like I had who were not rich but understood money and finance and taught me a lot.
There is…
Ok, if there is many must be failing it?
It’s up to the student to learn… you are responsible for your life
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>Set yourself up to be wealthy, don’t depend on your government for money or income. And don't assume 10% growth.
If you are invested in a s&p 500-tracking fund or something similar, you absolutely can assume 10% returns. Past performance does not guarantee future gains, but it is certainly a sound basis for an assumption of those future gains.
Since 1957, the S&P 500's average annual rate of return has been approximately **10.5%** (through March 2023) and around 6.6% after adjusting for inflation.
Exactly. That's really my point. Based on that I would absolutely assume 10% gains. Inflation doesn't change this. It obviously affects the purchasing power of my investments, but not the dollar value. Edit: Are recommending assuming more than 10% ? Like 10.5%? Because if so then I totally misinterpreted your point. I assumed you were saying 10% was too high, not too low
At 20 years old I was introduced to A L Williams where the platform strategy was buy cheaper term life insurance, as opposed to more expensive whole life, and invest the difference in mutual funds. This was a craze that I did start but didn’t fully understand it so I needed up cashing the balance out when I got married. Also a former employer did his best to get me to invest money, o just wouldn’t listen to him because I didn’t get it and was basically embarrassed to admit it to him. I did end up starting an IRA under his plan, to which I quit contributing when I left. It’s grown nicely over the years. I just wish I’d had the capacity to understand early on the importance and what just a little now can amount to at retirement age. I was very slow to get on the bandwagon and still feel like I’m way behind. 539k now with hopefully 1M+ by retirement… I’m now saving like a Madman, over $1500/month, to try and reach that goal…. That’s a lot of money to me. Y’all take note and save that money… don’t do what I did and use “I don’t understand investing” as a crutch to not invest.
My Dad was worried about money, but what really got me started was a lecture from the company’s 401k vendor at my first job out of school. He basically told us to at a minimum put in 6% to get the company’s 50% match maxed out. I think I put 10% per year in from there on out. Somehow I knew not to trust my brother when he said I should not be doing so and saving for some grad school plans I had at the time. That was 36 years ago and has worked out: a 2 hour meeting with the 401k company. Sadly, I haven’t seen even that much repeated for Emoloyee’s of other companies I’ve worked for.
Have you ever learned about opportunity costs? When I was 18 and a freshman in college, $25 was more than my weekly budget for partying. 18 year old me needed that $1300 (52 weeks of $25) more than 60 year-old me expects to need the $70k it would have grown to at a hypothetical 10% return through age 60. No regrets.
Is it too late if 40?
Putting money into a ROTH is never too late.
Where are you getting ten points
Where are you not? Sp500 is up 29% over last year
ETFs, individual stocks
Now calculate that as if you are the parent adding that money to your child's account setting them up for success. By adding an additional 18 years it is almost incomparable.
Addition and multiplication are covered in school.
So you don’t understand this is not about numbers… this is about principles.
You’re going to need 1.5million to retire though
I don’t disagree. This is not a fire and forget principle. As someone’s income increases, so should the retirement contribution. This post was simply to show that an amount (that won’t be missed) can do so much for someone. The goal is always to save 15% (or more if one’s budget can support it) of one’s gross income, but only after paying off all consumer debt (mortgage debt is not consumer debt in this case).
Isn’t Roth maxed out at 7k? I’m 23 and max it out every year since it’s “free money” i want to put more in but with rent, hobbies, and everything else it’s hard lol. Also why 10% don’t they average closer to 6-7%?