Warning: absolute pseudoscience & I may be talking out of my entire ass
A lot of modern gaming isn't actually meant to be hard. If you make your game too hard, people won't play it.
This, in turn, creates people that think games should have no challenge, and be beatable on the first, or maybe second try. These people encounter a difficult puzzle or combat sequence and expect others to do it for them. This then extends into them having no actual experience fighting any monsters since their teams have always done the hard part for them, so they expect that to continue.
That or they just have no idea what they're up against (which I get, considering the huge jump starting with rajang/raging brachy) and are just throwing themselves at it until they kill it.
I think you're absolutely on to something, because you reminded me of a post and comment I saw a while back which was exactly this.
Basically, they said something along the lines of "If I can't beat it on my second attempt I go co-op or ask for help". Which is exactly the *opposite* mentality you're meant to have with this game.
EDIT: [I found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/s/zXu5P0Rz0X)
Another factor to your theory (which I agree on completely), is that a lot of dark souls/elden ring players come to MH thinking it's the same experience with different weapon styles i.e. a boss rush. They beat a monster once and move on, because they've beaten it. They keep going using defender gear until it gets too difficult to just beat their first try.
It's why you see so many people asking for help with brachy, barioth, glavenous, etc. It's also why you see so many low HR players in master rank, since they beat the campaign and jump right to iceborne without realizing there is a ton of post game in the high rank. These same players are the majority of people asking for help with end game bosses at low level.
My biggest advice for these players is to play through LR and HR without defender gear, then do optional quests until you can take the HR arch tempered elders (xeno and Luna are exceptions since they're just annoying arch tempered). Then go to MR and do the same, until you get the special assignment for Furious rajang and raging brachy, then do optionals and events, and guiding lands until your gear is actually good enough to fight those two and move on to Safi and Kulve seiges, then alatreon, then fatalis and arch tempered Nami and velkhana.
I rushed the game the first time through. I was very low HR and MR when I got to alatreon. Couldn't beat alatreon so I quit. When I came back I restarted and did all of what I listed above and it was so much more fun and worthwhile, as well as months of gameplay instead of a couple weeks.
Sadly the game does a terrible job at directing new players to the optional HR content and just funnels them to Iceborne from what I remember when I was starting myself 2 years ago
To be fair, that’s kinda the goal. The optional HR content was basically *the whole game* for vanilla World. Pretty much everything High Rank is obsolete by very early Master Rank now that Iceborne is out. That’s generally how Monster Hunter games function.
I recently bought the game (just hit 100 hours)... I bought the combo when it was on sale and didn't even realize that I was rushing through things and hit MR.... ho boy was that a wake up call.
I've learned the hard way to go back and really focus some of those late game HR monsters and gear... it's helped so much.
I'll be honest though, there's definitely times where I que up a monster and SOS so people can come help me. It's mostly so that I can try to learn the moves and when to attack and use tools.... I feel double sided about that though. I do try my best to help out during those times..
I agree with you, but I also wish people would get the other lessons from EldenSoulsBorne:
The fun part is after you beat the challenge and go back to prove it in another run either harder (NG+) or by starting anew and using a different play style.
Once you've learned the enemy, the fight starts to feel like a dance and getting into that groove yourself feels incredible
Low High and Master rank are like New Game Plus cycles, you gotta really know the lower levels to truly enjoy the higher ones.
I'm on my first playthrough and recently beat Barioth. I noticed early on (still LR) that the defender weapon was just better, and I actually looked it up and found that it's meant to be the fast-track weapon. So, I decided from there that I would also work on building one of each element of my preferred weapon.
I still used the Defender when I would go to a new zone and up to the first MR quest, but after that, it's just no longer good. I also have always done fights solo first, and then I'd be open to co-oping for particular fights, but that first fight, I always take time to learn the attacks.
I don't remember actually failing any monsters during my first attempts, but I do seem to hate each monster more than the last as I continue. Not in a, "This game sucks. This boss is too hard," way. More like, "How dare you? Suck my d***!" And then I keep going cause the game is really fun, and I'll talk smack about monsters behind their backs.
I kinda agree but in the soulsborne games we have the same issue, there’s a bunch of people who are bad at the game who always ask for help after getting shit on a couple of times but the majority of the fan base would fight bosses for as many hours as it takes
I strongly disagree with telling people to do HR until arch tempered Elders b4 iceborne as that is a massive time sink that will be useless for early master rank IMO
sure the player might get a good grasp of the game doing this, but they really should just jump into master rank after base game and get good while doing it (worked for me)
I think there are alot of people who are just mindlessly playing the game to see the different monsters and things. Just pressing buttons and seeing things die kind of mentality.
They don't care about getting good. They just want to see things move on a screen.
SoS is tempting to just let the game autofinish for them.
To each their own i guess.
Rajang was the first monster to legitimately triple cart me as a vet, he is insane in this one. Literally has like one second of downtime outside of beam.
Witnessed this, yesterday. Sometimes, I like to close out play sessions by responding to LR/HR SOS's. You know, show up to help out another hunter, take some of the aggro off them, and maybe show them how to handle a monster's move set. Not the guy from yesterday.
I show up to help with Paolumu, and this dude is hanging outside the zone. I rush in and get to work. Chase off Paolumu to the next zone and I realize dude has just been dicking around while I was in the fight. Finished the quest and dude didn't hesitate to get to the carves. In retrospect, I should've dipped out the moment I realized what he was up to.
Not that Alatreon and Fatalis manages to be hard in a proper way.
Though, overall i do agree. A lot of people do expect just to be carried all the way, and i even know someone like that myself.
Literally this. Pretty sure you hit MR 19 or 20 at the end of ice Bourne then you have to do Rajang, Zinogre, Safi recon, baby Alatreon and finally fatalis unlocks.
He does say "people as early as m 17 wanting to be carried to fatalis" ie carried through 7-8 fights to end game without engaging and actually working on it.
I dont know many people who walked into raging brachy or altereon 1st time and didn't get rolled atleast once doing it solo. It was different than the just a base fight and required some skill and understanding of the mechanics. It certainly took me a handful of tries for those.
Personal opinion is everyone wants the best stuff so the game is easier afterwords or because then I have the best gear and "beat the game". But those players miss out on what I consider the best part of the game which is just playing. Enjoying the fights, trying new stuff, being silly at times because its fun.
Monster Hunter World contrary to its tough reputation is actually a pretty forgiving game.
Players don't really respect elemental resistance or defensive skills as much as the older games would enforce that. In Monster Hunter world you can just schlub your way through with brute force. You can also just be carried through most of the game via SOS.
In previous monster hunter games your goal is to typically go after progressively stronger and stronger monsters by using the previous monsters parts to work your way up.
In world you can just skip straight to the strongest monster and get the best gear immediately by brute forcing it. Which is what a lot of players do.
World is my favorite game, but this is a problem that Capcom needs to address in Wilds.
I did too, but thats because *you chose to*. The monsters aren't too much of a step up in difficulty from each other in world which is why you see so many players bum rushing to Fatalis.
Elemental Resistance is fairly irrelevant. Elemental damage from monsters is reduced by defense first and then modified be resistance. Unless you have extremely negative resistance, it probably not doing much.
I wouldn't bother with resistance until it drops below -10 and then I might consider addressing it. Probably won't until -20 though.
Also, at least in 3rd and 4th gen, you didn't really need defensive skills. Full offensive sets were the norm. There may be niche variations for certain weapons, but the skill system made changing skills rather annoying. The 5th gen system allows for a lot more modularity.
My point still stands
Elemental resistance *is* irrelevant, which is why no one bothers with it anymore. There are only a handful of Monsters in the game that hit with element dmg so hard it warrants element resistance (Kirin especially).
I think Monster Hunter games would benefit from a difficulty increase.
I don't think the difficulty has changed all that much. My first G Rank experience was 3U, running around in a clown suit that gave only Handicraft with a GS that went from Green to Purple with Handicraft. I was jumping into Black Diablos rooms to farm horns, and did fine.
4U wasn't much different, other than the Guild Quests which were a pain in the ass anyway.
Plenty of difficult hunts in 5th gen still. I think most people forget that it's only the very end game hunts that are typically difficult.
Did you _need_ them? No. Best policy still is don't get hit.
Did we take it into account? Absolutely. I distinctly remember using gunner helms in a lot of my GS builds because of their increased resistance.
It's a lot to learn at first, newbies especially were overwhelmed with the amount of information and game feel of world
Once you get past that hurdle, world is quite easy
I dunno man I attempted fatalis at mr24 and just threw myself against him for 100+ attempts untill I killed him. No augments or anything just slowly getting better and better. Never multi-player though
The rank requirement to be able to post the quest is MR24. If you only do the absolute minimum required to reach the quest, you’ll be quite a bit over 24 so the minimum MR requirement will never matter.
Capcom fault realy, I mean sure I get that making fatalis Mr 24 makes it more accessible but that makes people think that their gear /skill is good enough when it's not,also it makes no sense that to fight gold rathian /silver rathalos you only need Mr 70 and Mr 100 for ruiner nergigante when their far easier then fatalis. They should just sit down and enjoy the ride instead of rushing to the final fight die and quit the game saying it's thrash.
And here I am grinding out GL levels, Safi/Kulve seiges, and decorations so I can optimize my gear before taking on Furious Rajang or Raging Brachy... and then move onto Alatreon and finally (gulp) Fatalis. Maybe AT Velk, we'll see lol
I personally dont have any problem with this at all but I have grudge against “high” MR players joining fatty sos and carting to even the most telegraphed attacks left and right.
Yes,but they shouldn't be wanting a carry as soon as they just start to get into mid-game. Attempting it is fine,but asking other people to carry you is a different matter.
I’m super okay with people asking. Sometimes in Fatalis lobbies people ask if I can beat for them, and I make a two player quest, and do it. I think the biggest problem is when someone way under prepared joins the quest in sos or lobby and expected you to do it. I think it’s more a question of etiquette. You’re probably making the game worse to somebody if you join a Fatalis quest unprepared, so maybe you should consider asking if the poster minds you joining or not joining any sos, and just firing your own sos’s.
Not everyone has the time and patience to learn every single fight and solo everything. Most players play casually. They want to finish the game and move on. Some actually enjoy the game way better in multiplayer too.
Enjoying the game in multiplayer is totally okay, but the part about finishing the game gets me. Like, if you are under prepared, you probably never did guiding lands, reach MR 100, and I’ve seen a lot of people in MR without temporal and rocksteady mantle. Not saying you should do all that to enjoy the game or even beating it , but I don’t understand why people consider beating Fatalis( an optional fight) beating the game, but not doing optional, ruiner nergigante, At velkhana and At Namielle. To me you beat Shara and you’ve beat the game, everything else is extra content, and extra content being challenging is totally okay to me.
Be for real man, anybody below MR 100 has absolutely no business fighting Fatalis. They're just making it unnecessarily hard on themselves for no reason doing it before then
People who are new to the game are coming in with all content already released. People who bought the game when it was still getting content would have weeks to months to grind up before the next monster dropped. New players on the other hand are constantly unlocking new hunts, and they are likely going to try them right when they are offered.
They likely don't know they aren't prepared, because why else would the game be offering that hunt?
Happened to me. Still new to World, only MR 32, tried Alatreon after doing alright against Safi and generally not having too much trouble with the rest of the monsters in the game. Now, I've been the reason for a few Alatreon wipes, so I'm working on getting the best gear I can to do it.
The biggest problem is the level requirements. The game set my MR to 24 after the last boss in Iceborne (forget the name) and had the handler and others constantly bombarding me with "Hey, you need to do this!" Which pushed me right into content that, realistically, I had no right to succeed in. I did it, though my strategy was very unga-bunga, Glaive go Spin.
I guess I'd argue that we shouldn't go after the newbies, but just try to help them. If you see them loading into Alatreon or Fatalis with under leveled gear, give them a warning that it's gonna be hell and they may want to grind, and give them an idea of a weapon or armor to aim for so they have a goal, because the amount of gear and trees and passives is kinda daunting, and I know I still don't understand it all. Would've made my life way easier to know that IG isn't all that great for elemental builds and benefits more from just attack up and affinity over raising elemental damage.
Most people aren't online or on reddit. It's likely they are just progressing the game normally thinking those monsters are just the natural next step. It's actually the games fault for making the minimum requirement so low. It's much harder but doable at low levels. You'll just be banging your head against the wall without augments or good builds. After many failed attempts is when they'll come searching online for help only to be told to farm more stuff.
as a new monster hunter player i say:
the game has the worst tutorial ever seen it doesn't tell you anything unless it is too late
LUCKLY i have a nice friend that can teach me well.
The thing that I dislike In this game is those cryptic skill descriptions like "increases affinity and lessens stamina consumption when certain conditions are met" how the f I can know what those certain conditions are lol. I would be fine with this system if there was button for detailed info about how the skills actually work and what they do. Is this just some General monster hunter series thing that they dont want players To know exactly what they do Or just mhw thing? I mean yeah you can easily go to internet To find info obviously but usually games have detailed info button/option. This is not that bad problem but it takes extra time from playing and i would like To have it In mh wilds atleast
I feel you on the somewhat generalized skill descriptions. There's PC mods that make skill descriptions crystal clear. But I'm on Playstation, so I have to use Google a LOT.
Just go to the training ground and swing the weapon you wanna use a few times.
Also what tutorial do you need for? Be reminded that momsters will fuck you up until you learn your own weapon pattern and monster pattern?
Dark soul and nearly 99.9% souls-like games dont have a tutorial so what are you complaining for?
There is a word called "independence" and this fits a lot of these kind of games.
ds tutorial exhist since he tells you "move dodge and attack" CUZ THE GAME IS ALL LIKE THAT, mhw do not tell you meaning of nothing they say, nor secret skills, nor where to get things for crafting, nor investigation meaning, nor how to capture animals AND THE MAIN QUEST ASKS YOU TO
PLS DO NOT COMPARE ATTACK AND ROLL TO THIS BULLSHIT THAT MHW ALSO EVEN DS2 HAS BETTER HITBOXES
Honestly - seeing people 1/3 of my MR running around in full Fatalis gear while clearly not being skilled enough to have soloed it made me finally attempt the last 2 fights in this game.
Like. Come on! If you cart 5-7 times to a single monster in Guiding lands no chance in hell you've soloed Fatty.
I am sure there ARE players who managed it and congrats to those hunters. However 9 times out of 10 a low MR hunter with full Fatty gear got carried and doesn't deserve it.
It usually takes 1 hunt with them to find out. My favorite is to lure a BVH - that dragon just DESTROYS people who only got carried.
I always love seeing those MR40ish players run around in full Fatalis sets during Kulve and Safi sieges where as I'm still running 2p Teo 3p Raging Brachy at MR97 waiting to get my augments, yet doing more than them many a time.
That being said it is my third save and the two others have full Fatalis already, so it's probably me being more familiar and comfortable with what I'm doing.
Because they fucked up and put too low of a MR requirement on it.
If you played the dlc from launch and went through to the end game then each update in turn and followed the proper gear progression you fought Fatalis with fully upgraded and augmented weapons and armour.
If you bought it last month and speed ran your way through the game then you're going to be undergeared and fail the quest.
I'm playthrough through Sunbreak at the moment and I've hit that endgame part where the game now requires me to grind some master rank levels to get the next set of monsters for the next tier of anomaly parts for weapon upgrades. The grind here is significantly longer than World ever required. Hopefully this means they learned their lesson and will balance it well for Wilds.
Because not everyone has been here since launch, and all they hear about in the community, guides, YouTube, etc is these high end things. they want to progress but the shear number of build/gear options are daunting to say the least (unless you've done enough research to write a damn thesis in order to know enough to narrow options down yourself).
Unless you already know where to look, it's hard to find progression guides with stages of gear to grind out. Most of what shows is nothing but endgame builds and hyper min/maxed mindset advice. At best they say "these skills are good for this weapon type" but many fail to prioritize them properly.
So basically people hit a wall, and early game has taught late coming players that just getting that next tier of gear makes all the difference just for having better raw numbers, rather than nuance of fine tuning skills and style/strategy.
I got lucky and played with a couple friends who were long time fans and had already ground the hell out of things and basically told me to try and complete every optional quest along the way just to force me to think differently for different monsters and gear up accordingly. I recently got to MR50 and finally felt like I should look up some builds in order to fine tune things. I learned pretty damn quick that my gear was nowhere near what it could be, but in about an hour of searching I found *two* decent guides for IG that didn't just show Safi/Alatreon/Fatalis gear and actually gave me a series of set to work for.
Personal experience in a nutshell: i have a hard time with a monster. I ask people help for a suitable build, or look online. The only answer I get is "full fatty armour and fatty weapon of choice"
Some players don't understand how it works ad want to skip to the easy part of the game
I never actually killed fatalis, and barely killed Alatreon 3 times (with the huge help of a 999MR player, the might princess Zelda herself)
I wish I had a shoutout the constantly says:
“I may be MR999 but don’t expect me to carry you <3”
the amount of people that JOIN MY HUNT and DIE then CHILL at camp is frustratingly a lot. I used to feel bad for kicking people, now I just don’t gaf. I legit became an elitist because of them. I started to over analyze their builds/their defense(s). Why do they have this weapon when they could get this weapon? Why this armor skill and not that? Why are they playing this weapon they’ll die to one tailswipe? It started with paranoia and now I’ve become the thing I hated the most when I first started grinding for Fatalis/Alatreon/Kulve/Safi.
This is my first mh game and I decided I would fight no monster coop that I haven't killed solo and its been a great experience. I can literally feel myself becoming more skilled over time as I learn more about my chosen weapon (switch axe... I literally learned you didn't need to be in sword mode to clutch zsd a face after I had soloed alatreon...) and this game has been such a blast. 300 hours in and just starting my solo fatalis attempts in earnest now and can't wait to sink as many hours as I've sunk into some full priced games learning that one fight. Then when I'm bored and just want to casually hunt I'm now at a point where I can hop in a random so and beat the shit out of anything in the game tempered elder dragon or weaker. I think the game does you a bit of a disservice pushing coop as an expected method. Sure its fun but there is so much to learn in this game that you really won't fighting coop.
Kind of the same for me. i just hit 200 switch axe just in to MR but only solo (and maybe wasting allot of time with crafting all armor sets exept for a few) and wel i learned a lot that way now i'm starting iceborn with the same intensions to craft all armors even if it's useless and al switch axe's before i ever attempt fatalis or even co op. I dont like to be the one in a hunt that doesn't know wat to do or carts the first minute plus i'm a complitionist
Well. The MR requirement is low and the mentality of “if i stuck once i sos” is fairly common. Some don’t even know how to use their main weapon effectively at Fatalis. Tis true, i have seen such individuals.
At least Fatalis has actual mandatory solo section to filter out those who have no place in the fight.
This is why Defender gear shouldn't have been pushed so hard onto new players. It should have at least come with a warning that this is meant to boost you to IB.
Let me just correct you, most humans are stupid.The More players any game has, the More stupid players it also has. Noobs wanting To get carried and babysitted through hardest content happens In every game where its possible to do so.
i get wanting to breeze through the base game coz the base game is meant to be for players who just want to chill and kick some monsters ass. but when you get to IB the real game starts because you cant be careless and expect to breeze through IB when theres alatreon and fatalis waiting at the end
Avoiding all the optional stuff, the lowest MR i could get to fatalis was 33. i dont think its possible to get any lower than that (at least on xbox).
If possible please let me know.
Edit: Nevermind, others have reported that the lowest is HR27/MR32.
Ok, my take on this: multiplayer is only good for:
1. Play with friends;
2. Sieges;
3. Be carried;
4. Carry.
If you're not ok with those situations you WILL get annoyed by mhw multiplayer experience...
There are farming strats out there to get every fatalis armor peice without a kill. Maybe there’s a fair bit of that? You’d still need to be MR24 for that, but thats still too fresh for a fatalis kill imo if you’re new to mhw/mh in general.
Ive played through the game 3 times now. The minute I can do Fatalis I build the strongest GS i can and then cone bait and horn break, cannon wings, and palico steal my way to full Fatalis gear. If you arent trying to kill Fatty he isnt nearly as much of a problem because you can take your time and just focus on part breaks.
Point is, the low level guys you see running this might have a higher rank than you spread across multiple characters and restarts.
We are so far into this game at this point that rank means nothing. Anyone still using a character from launch is gonna have super high rank even if they still struggle with end game, conversely old players who reroll when they return will faceroll content their rank might indicate they "arent ready for".
There is too much of this going on but I don't blame the players. This is a game dev issue. I was once one of these players but after 2 quests of being one shotted or not understanding (Alatreon) I went and grinded mantles, augments, canteen, etc. Not all players are willing to do this. Especially not in todays gaming.
Ngl I wound up facing fatalis pretty early, I just remember it was pre MR 100. I had beaten Alatreon pretty smoothly without understanding that there were damage checks, and then I had cleared fatalis maybe 8 or 9 fights in. Was difficult but after I learned how absurd the tail hit box is, and his tells for which fire death he’s doing, it got a lot easier. I used the Xeno SnS for the first win, the Alatreon hammer for the second, then the rest was fatty gear
The biggest thing I see I dislike, are when players of any rank do fatty multiplayer with 0 concept of game mechanics. They’ve got random unupgraded armor, weird builds, overcommitting on long attacks during short windows. One person burns every cart + the insurance in the first 5 minutes.
Biggest thing about the game is to have fun, u don’t need a meta build to play the game. But if you’re burning every cart in 3-5 minutes, you’re ruining the fight for other ppl
Edit: I remember my armor build was 2 piece basilgoose, for the guts
I have been in a situation before where I got 1 shot by Safi and immediately 2 players abandoned the hunt leaving me and another. I'm not terrible but it is my first time fighting Safi so I got careless. Regardless, me and the other hunter managed to take down Safi no problem.
I'm kinda pissed by the other 2 leaving as soon as I cart thinking the hunt is hopeless and they have to carry me but I get it. I guess you have to be mr 999 if you don't want to be seen as a burden.
I also think it’s because Capcom thought people would stop playing shortly after the story so they gave us MR 100 beasts early to not have a leap/journey to true endgame gear!
I actually think this is a good thing, because I was a lower MR when I threw myself at Alatreon and Fatalis and that gave me incentive to research how other players would SOLO, let alone slay those monsters.
You pick up a lot of skills trying to reverse engineer how speedrunners absolutely destroy the hardest monsters in the game. You come across cool ideas for highly specialized builds that you can then adapt for other monsters, you learn about tech like ledge hopping and all of the little nuances of your weapons, etc etc. Everything you missed out on brute forcing through the game, they make sure you take a step back to learn that stuff.
I think Fatalis and Alatreon are just really good at doing their job; they’re a good old fashioned skill check to make sure you DESERVE the reward of killing them. Maybe they’re just separating the wheat from the chaff, but they definitely turned me into the wheat. It doesn’t harm anybody to be humbled a bit.
well i only play solo so i just can guess :
the whole point with fatalis is the horns. you do not need anything else since all the rest is doable with plunderblade and just with a good cannon opening.
but breaking the horns is not that easy alone i you are not skilled enough and/or you know very well the fight.
people just want their to play the rest of the game.
think about raging brachidios : once you get enough skulls to farm all its weapons and a couple of piece of armor to match with teostra you ignore it forever and ever.
same but at higher level. i play solo since i have no psn and i admit that sometimes i wish i had someone who could carry me (fucking stupid hated rajang) but i just had to gitgud enough to fight my wall and overcome my limits.
but really , when you die 1000 times with the same monster and you really want to get the equip sos flare is there for this . i mean i never used a single sos flare (and this is why i will never get platinum on this game even if i love it) but i would carry people
mhw is so successful since it let people who are not nolifer to get endgame equip and fell satisfied. i hope they won't undo this in wilds (and this is why i won't get i day one) .
Warning: absolute pseudoscience & I may be talking out of my entire ass A lot of modern gaming isn't actually meant to be hard. If you make your game too hard, people won't play it. This, in turn, creates people that think games should have no challenge, and be beatable on the first, or maybe second try. These people encounter a difficult puzzle or combat sequence and expect others to do it for them. This then extends into them having no actual experience fighting any monsters since their teams have always done the hard part for them, so they expect that to continue. That or they just have no idea what they're up against (which I get, considering the huge jump starting with rajang/raging brachy) and are just throwing themselves at it until they kill it.
I think you're absolutely on to something, because you reminded me of a post and comment I saw a while back which was exactly this. Basically, they said something along the lines of "If I can't beat it on my second attempt I go co-op or ask for help". Which is exactly the *opposite* mentality you're meant to have with this game. EDIT: [I found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/s/zXu5P0Rz0X)
Another factor to your theory (which I agree on completely), is that a lot of dark souls/elden ring players come to MH thinking it's the same experience with different weapon styles i.e. a boss rush. They beat a monster once and move on, because they've beaten it. They keep going using defender gear until it gets too difficult to just beat their first try. It's why you see so many people asking for help with brachy, barioth, glavenous, etc. It's also why you see so many low HR players in master rank, since they beat the campaign and jump right to iceborne without realizing there is a ton of post game in the high rank. These same players are the majority of people asking for help with end game bosses at low level. My biggest advice for these players is to play through LR and HR without defender gear, then do optional quests until you can take the HR arch tempered elders (xeno and Luna are exceptions since they're just annoying arch tempered). Then go to MR and do the same, until you get the special assignment for Furious rajang and raging brachy, then do optionals and events, and guiding lands until your gear is actually good enough to fight those two and move on to Safi and Kulve seiges, then alatreon, then fatalis and arch tempered Nami and velkhana. I rushed the game the first time through. I was very low HR and MR when I got to alatreon. Couldn't beat alatreon so I quit. When I came back I restarted and did all of what I listed above and it was so much more fun and worthwhile, as well as months of gameplay instead of a couple weeks.
Sadly the game does a terrible job at directing new players to the optional HR content and just funnels them to Iceborne from what I remember when I was starting myself 2 years ago
The Handler wouldn't shut the F up until I started the mission that takes you into Iceborne. That opening though... absolutely beautiful.
To be fair, that’s kinda the goal. The optional HR content was basically *the whole game* for vanilla World. Pretty much everything High Rank is obsolete by very early Master Rank now that Iceborne is out. That’s generally how Monster Hunter games function.
I recently bought the game (just hit 100 hours)... I bought the combo when it was on sale and didn't even realize that I was rushing through things and hit MR.... ho boy was that a wake up call. I've learned the hard way to go back and really focus some of those late game HR monsters and gear... it's helped so much. I'll be honest though, there's definitely times where I que up a monster and SOS so people can come help me. It's mostly so that I can try to learn the moves and when to attack and use tools.... I feel double sided about that though. I do try my best to help out during those times..
I agree with you, but I also wish people would get the other lessons from EldenSoulsBorne: The fun part is after you beat the challenge and go back to prove it in another run either harder (NG+) or by starting anew and using a different play style. Once you've learned the enemy, the fight starts to feel like a dance and getting into that groove yourself feels incredible Low High and Master rank are like New Game Plus cycles, you gotta really know the lower levels to truly enjoy the higher ones.
Defender gear is so stupid. Why do developers always think the best way to have an expansion is to skip the content of their first game.
I'm on my first playthrough and recently beat Barioth. I noticed early on (still LR) that the defender weapon was just better, and I actually looked it up and found that it's meant to be the fast-track weapon. So, I decided from there that I would also work on building one of each element of my preferred weapon. I still used the Defender when I would go to a new zone and up to the first MR quest, but after that, it's just no longer good. I also have always done fights solo first, and then I'd be open to co-oping for particular fights, but that first fight, I always take time to learn the attacks. I don't remember actually failing any monsters during my first attempts, but I do seem to hate each monster more than the last as I continue. Not in a, "This game sucks. This boss is too hard," way. More like, "How dare you? Suck my d***!" And then I keep going cause the game is really fun, and I'll talk smack about monsters behind their backs.
I kinda agree but in the soulsborne games we have the same issue, there’s a bunch of people who are bad at the game who always ask for help after getting shit on a couple of times but the majority of the fan base would fight bosses for as many hours as it takes
I strongly disagree with telling people to do HR until arch tempered Elders b4 iceborne as that is a massive time sink that will be useless for early master rank IMO sure the player might get a good grasp of the game doing this, but they really should just jump into master rank after base game and get good while doing it (worked for me)
I think there are alot of people who are just mindlessly playing the game to see the different monsters and things. Just pressing buttons and seeing things die kind of mentality. They don't care about getting good. They just want to see things move on a screen. SoS is tempting to just let the game autofinish for them. To each their own i guess.
Rajang was the first monster to legitimately triple cart me as a vet, he is insane in this one. Literally has like one second of downtime outside of beam.
Yeah took me like 7 hunts where I was helped before I didn't faint :p still can't solo it, but I'm getting better
Ngl. First rajang was a surprise to me. Tbh. I expected it to be bigger.. and its weakspot sucks. Lol
Witnessed this, yesterday. Sometimes, I like to close out play sessions by responding to LR/HR SOS's. You know, show up to help out another hunter, take some of the aggro off them, and maybe show them how to handle a monster's move set. Not the guy from yesterday. I show up to help with Paolumu, and this dude is hanging outside the zone. I rush in and get to work. Chase off Paolumu to the next zone and I realize dude has just been dicking around while I was in the fight. Finished the quest and dude didn't hesitate to get to the carves. In retrospect, I should've dipped out the moment I realized what he was up to.
Not that Alatreon and Fatalis manages to be hard in a proper way. Though, overall i do agree. A lot of people do expect just to be carried all the way, and i even know someone like that myself.
You can’t do fatalis at 17.
I know,but they want to do it as early as then.
They mean it’s not unlocked until after MR 24 so it’s literally impossible
Literally this. Pretty sure you hit MR 19 or 20 at the end of ice Bourne then you have to do Rajang, Zinogre, Safi recon, baby Alatreon and finally fatalis unlocks.
He does say "people as early as m 17 wanting to be carried to fatalis" ie carried through 7-8 fights to end game without engaging and actually working on it. I dont know many people who walked into raging brachy or altereon 1st time and didn't get rolled atleast once doing it solo. It was different than the just a base fight and required some skill and understanding of the mechanics. It certainly took me a handful of tries for those. Personal opinion is everyone wants the best stuff so the game is easier afterwords or because then I have the best gear and "beat the game". But those players miss out on what I consider the best part of the game which is just playing. Enjoying the fights, trying new stuff, being silly at times because its fun.
Monster Hunter World contrary to its tough reputation is actually a pretty forgiving game. Players don't really respect elemental resistance or defensive skills as much as the older games would enforce that. In Monster Hunter world you can just schlub your way through with brute force. You can also just be carried through most of the game via SOS. In previous monster hunter games your goal is to typically go after progressively stronger and stronger monsters by using the previous monsters parts to work your way up. In world you can just skip straight to the strongest monster and get the best gear immediately by brute forcing it. Which is what a lot of players do. World is my favorite game, but this is a problem that Capcom needs to address in Wilds.
I played through most of it solo and I really enjoyed the journey of progressively getting stronger. It was a very rewarding experience for me
I did too, but thats because *you chose to*. The monsters aren't too much of a step up in difficulty from each other in world which is why you see so many players bum rushing to Fatalis.
Fair point, but raging brach and the monkey were quite difficult compared to the normal iceborne monsters.
Elemental Resistance is fairly irrelevant. Elemental damage from monsters is reduced by defense first and then modified be resistance. Unless you have extremely negative resistance, it probably not doing much. I wouldn't bother with resistance until it drops below -10 and then I might consider addressing it. Probably won't until -20 though. Also, at least in 3rd and 4th gen, you didn't really need defensive skills. Full offensive sets were the norm. There may be niche variations for certain weapons, but the skill system made changing skills rather annoying. The 5th gen system allows for a lot more modularity.
My point still stands Elemental resistance *is* irrelevant, which is why no one bothers with it anymore. There are only a handful of Monsters in the game that hit with element dmg so hard it warrants element resistance (Kirin especially). I think Monster Hunter games would benefit from a difficulty increase.
I don't think the difficulty has changed all that much. My first G Rank experience was 3U, running around in a clown suit that gave only Handicraft with a GS that went from Green to Purple with Handicraft. I was jumping into Black Diablos rooms to farm horns, and did fine. 4U wasn't much different, other than the Guild Quests which were a pain in the ass anyway. Plenty of difficult hunts in 5th gen still. I think most people forget that it's only the very end game hunts that are typically difficult.
Did you _need_ them? No. Best policy still is don't get hit. Did we take it into account? Absolutely. I distinctly remember using gunner helms in a lot of my GS builds because of their increased resistance.
Rather pointless. It may have saved you a few hp at most. Probably only 1 or 2.
World has a tough reputation? It's known to be harder than Rise, but I wouldn't say it has a reputation for its difficulty.
It's a lot to learn at first, newbies especially were overwhelmed with the amount of information and game feel of world Once you get past that hurdle, world is quite easy
I dunno man I attempted fatalis at mr24 and just threw myself against him for 100+ attempts untill I killed him. No augments or anything just slowly getting better and better. Never multi-player though
That is some dedication
This Is the way.
The lowest rank you can have by the time you reach Fatalis is MR32 though...
It unlocks at mr24 doesn't it? I remember it being a mr24 requirement
The rank requirement to be able to post the quest is MR24. If you only do the absolute minimum required to reach the quest, you’ll be quite a bit over 24 so the minimum MR requirement will never matter.
Capcom fault realy, I mean sure I get that making fatalis Mr 24 makes it more accessible but that makes people think that their gear /skill is good enough when it's not,also it makes no sense that to fight gold rathian /silver rathalos you only need Mr 70 and Mr 100 for ruiner nergigante when their far easier then fatalis. They should just sit down and enjoy the ride instead of rushing to the final fight die and quit the game saying it's thrash.
And here I am grinding out GL levels, Safi/Kulve seiges, and decorations so I can optimize my gear before taking on Furious Rajang or Raging Brachy... and then move onto Alatreon and finally (gulp) Fatalis. Maybe AT Velk, we'll see lol
The game gives you the option to do so, that’s it.
I personally dont have any problem with this at all but I have grudge against “high” MR players joining fatty sos and carting to even the most telegraphed attacks left and right.
Uh yeah people should be able to attempt these fights for the first time at some point right?
Yes,but they shouldn't be wanting a carry as soon as they just start to get into mid-game. Attempting it is fine,but asking other people to carry you is a different matter.
I’m super okay with people asking. Sometimes in Fatalis lobbies people ask if I can beat for them, and I make a two player quest, and do it. I think the biggest problem is when someone way under prepared joins the quest in sos or lobby and expected you to do it. I think it’s more a question of etiquette. You’re probably making the game worse to somebody if you join a Fatalis quest unprepared, so maybe you should consider asking if the poster minds you joining or not joining any sos, and just firing your own sos’s.
Not everyone has the time and patience to learn every single fight and solo everything. Most players play casually. They want to finish the game and move on. Some actually enjoy the game way better in multiplayer too.
Enjoying the game in multiplayer is totally okay, but the part about finishing the game gets me. Like, if you are under prepared, you probably never did guiding lands, reach MR 100, and I’ve seen a lot of people in MR without temporal and rocksteady mantle. Not saying you should do all that to enjoy the game or even beating it , but I don’t understand why people consider beating Fatalis( an optional fight) beating the game, but not doing optional, ruiner nergigante, At velkhana and At Namielle. To me you beat Shara and you’ve beat the game, everything else is extra content, and extra content being challenging is totally okay to me.
So you want people to carry you through Fatalis’ fight? What a joke.
Then, proceed to get kicked from several parties when it comes to end game fights. No one wants dead weight.
Be for real man, anybody below MR 100 has absolutely no business fighting Fatalis. They're just making it unnecessarily hard on themselves for no reason doing it before then
People who are new to the game are coming in with all content already released. People who bought the game when it was still getting content would have weeks to months to grind up before the next monster dropped. New players on the other hand are constantly unlocking new hunts, and they are likely going to try them right when they are offered. They likely don't know they aren't prepared, because why else would the game be offering that hunt?
Happened to me. Still new to World, only MR 32, tried Alatreon after doing alright against Safi and generally not having too much trouble with the rest of the monsters in the game. Now, I've been the reason for a few Alatreon wipes, so I'm working on getting the best gear I can to do it. The biggest problem is the level requirements. The game set my MR to 24 after the last boss in Iceborne (forget the name) and had the handler and others constantly bombarding me with "Hey, you need to do this!" Which pushed me right into content that, realistically, I had no right to succeed in. I did it, though my strategy was very unga-bunga, Glaive go Spin. I guess I'd argue that we shouldn't go after the newbies, but just try to help them. If you see them loading into Alatreon or Fatalis with under leveled gear, give them a warning that it's gonna be hell and they may want to grind, and give them an idea of a weapon or armor to aim for so they have a goal, because the amount of gear and trees and passives is kinda daunting, and I know I still don't understand it all. Would've made my life way easier to know that IG isn't all that great for elemental builds and benefits more from just attack up and affinity over raising elemental damage.
Most people aren't online or on reddit. It's likely they are just progressing the game normally thinking those monsters are just the natural next step. It's actually the games fault for making the minimum requirement so low. It's much harder but doable at low levels. You'll just be banging your head against the wall without augments or good builds. After many failed attempts is when they'll come searching online for help only to be told to farm more stuff.
as a new monster hunter player i say: the game has the worst tutorial ever seen it doesn't tell you anything unless it is too late LUCKLY i have a nice friend that can teach me well.
The thing that I dislike In this game is those cryptic skill descriptions like "increases affinity and lessens stamina consumption when certain conditions are met" how the f I can know what those certain conditions are lol. I would be fine with this system if there was button for detailed info about how the skills actually work and what they do. Is this just some General monster hunter series thing that they dont want players To know exactly what they do Or just mhw thing? I mean yeah you can easily go to internet To find info obviously but usually games have detailed info button/option. This is not that bad problem but it takes extra time from playing and i would like To have it In mh wilds atleast
I feel you on the somewhat generalized skill descriptions. There's PC mods that make skill descriptions crystal clear. But I'm on Playstation, so I have to use Google a LOT.
Just go to the training ground and swing the weapon you wanna use a few times. Also what tutorial do you need for? Be reminded that momsters will fuck you up until you learn your own weapon pattern and monster pattern? Dark soul and nearly 99.9% souls-like games dont have a tutorial so what are you complaining for? There is a word called "independence" and this fits a lot of these kind of games.
ds tutorial exhist since he tells you "move dodge and attack" CUZ THE GAME IS ALL LIKE THAT, mhw do not tell you meaning of nothing they say, nor secret skills, nor where to get things for crafting, nor investigation meaning, nor how to capture animals AND THE MAIN QUEST ASKS YOU TO PLS DO NOT COMPARE ATTACK AND ROLL TO THIS BULLSHIT THAT MHW ALSO EVEN DS2 HAS BETTER HITBOXES
Honestly - seeing people 1/3 of my MR running around in full Fatalis gear while clearly not being skilled enough to have soloed it made me finally attempt the last 2 fights in this game. Like. Come on! If you cart 5-7 times to a single monster in Guiding lands no chance in hell you've soloed Fatty. I am sure there ARE players who managed it and congrats to those hunters. However 9 times out of 10 a low MR hunter with full Fatty gear got carried and doesn't deserve it. It usually takes 1 hunt with them to find out. My favorite is to lure a BVH - that dragon just DESTROYS people who only got carried.
I always love seeing those MR40ish players run around in full Fatalis sets during Kulve and Safi sieges where as I'm still running 2p Teo 3p Raging Brachy at MR97 waiting to get my augments, yet doing more than them many a time. That being said it is my third save and the two others have full Fatalis already, so it's probably me being more familiar and comfortable with what I'm doing.
Because they fucked up and put too low of a MR requirement on it. If you played the dlc from launch and went through to the end game then each update in turn and followed the proper gear progression you fought Fatalis with fully upgraded and augmented weapons and armour. If you bought it last month and speed ran your way through the game then you're going to be undergeared and fail the quest. I'm playthrough through Sunbreak at the moment and I've hit that endgame part where the game now requires me to grind some master rank levels to get the next set of monsters for the next tier of anomaly parts for weapon upgrades. The grind here is significantly longer than World ever required. Hopefully this means they learned their lesson and will balance it well for Wilds.
Because not everyone has been here since launch, and all they hear about in the community, guides, YouTube, etc is these high end things. they want to progress but the shear number of build/gear options are daunting to say the least (unless you've done enough research to write a damn thesis in order to know enough to narrow options down yourself). Unless you already know where to look, it's hard to find progression guides with stages of gear to grind out. Most of what shows is nothing but endgame builds and hyper min/maxed mindset advice. At best they say "these skills are good for this weapon type" but many fail to prioritize them properly. So basically people hit a wall, and early game has taught late coming players that just getting that next tier of gear makes all the difference just for having better raw numbers, rather than nuance of fine tuning skills and style/strategy. I got lucky and played with a couple friends who were long time fans and had already ground the hell out of things and basically told me to try and complete every optional quest along the way just to force me to think differently for different monsters and gear up accordingly. I recently got to MR50 and finally felt like I should look up some builds in order to fine tune things. I learned pretty damn quick that my gear was nowhere near what it could be, but in about an hour of searching I found *two* decent guides for IG that didn't just show Safi/Alatreon/Fatalis gear and actually gave me a series of set to work for.
Personal experience in a nutshell: i have a hard time with a monster. I ask people help for a suitable build, or look online. The only answer I get is "full fatty armour and fatty weapon of choice" Some players don't understand how it works ad want to skip to the easy part of the game I never actually killed fatalis, and barely killed Alatreon 3 times (with the huge help of a 999MR player, the might princess Zelda herself)
I wish I had a shoutout the constantly says: “I may be MR999 but don’t expect me to carry you <3” the amount of people that JOIN MY HUNT and DIE then CHILL at camp is frustratingly a lot. I used to feel bad for kicking people, now I just don’t gaf. I legit became an elitist because of them. I started to over analyze their builds/their defense(s). Why do they have this weapon when they could get this weapon? Why this armor skill and not that? Why are they playing this weapon they’ll die to one tailswipe? It started with paranoia and now I’ve become the thing I hated the most when I first started grinding for Fatalis/Alatreon/Kulve/Safi.
This is my first mh game and I decided I would fight no monster coop that I haven't killed solo and its been a great experience. I can literally feel myself becoming more skilled over time as I learn more about my chosen weapon (switch axe... I literally learned you didn't need to be in sword mode to clutch zsd a face after I had soloed alatreon...) and this game has been such a blast. 300 hours in and just starting my solo fatalis attempts in earnest now and can't wait to sink as many hours as I've sunk into some full priced games learning that one fight. Then when I'm bored and just want to casually hunt I'm now at a point where I can hop in a random so and beat the shit out of anything in the game tempered elder dragon or weaker. I think the game does you a bit of a disservice pushing coop as an expected method. Sure its fun but there is so much to learn in this game that you really won't fighting coop.
Kind of the same for me. i just hit 200 switch axe just in to MR but only solo (and maybe wasting allot of time with crafting all armor sets exept for a few) and wel i learned a lot that way now i'm starting iceborn with the same intensions to craft all armors even if it's useless and al switch axe's before i ever attempt fatalis or even co op. I dont like to be the one in a hunt that doesn't know wat to do or carts the first minute plus i'm a complitionist
Well. The MR requirement is low and the mentality of “if i stuck once i sos” is fairly common. Some don’t even know how to use their main weapon effectively at Fatalis. Tis true, i have seen such individuals. At least Fatalis has actual mandatory solo section to filter out those who have no place in the fight.
This is why Defender gear shouldn't have been pushed so hard onto new players. It should have at least come with a warning that this is meant to boost you to IB.
Most Monster Hunter players are very stupid, it's as simple as that.
Let me just correct you, most humans are stupid.The More players any game has, the More stupid players it also has. Noobs wanting To get carried and babysitted through hardest content happens In every game where its possible to do so.
Hoping to get to lucky
i get wanting to breeze through the base game coz the base game is meant to be for players who just want to chill and kick some monsters ass. but when you get to IB the real game starts because you cant be careless and expect to breeze through IB when theres alatreon and fatalis waiting at the end
Avoiding all the optional stuff, the lowest MR i could get to fatalis was 33. i dont think its possible to get any lower than that (at least on xbox). If possible please let me know. Edit: Nevermind, others have reported that the lowest is HR27/MR32.
Not just fata and ala, mostly in at velk.. did alot at velk sos i want them to just stay alive and they cant even do that
Because they can.
Ok, my take on this: multiplayer is only good for: 1. Play with friends; 2. Sieges; 3. Be carried; 4. Carry. If you're not ok with those situations you WILL get annoyed by mhw multiplayer experience...
There are farming strats out there to get every fatalis armor peice without a kill. Maybe there’s a fair bit of that? You’d still need to be MR24 for that, but thats still too fresh for a fatalis kill imo if you’re new to mhw/mh in general.
Ive played through the game 3 times now. The minute I can do Fatalis I build the strongest GS i can and then cone bait and horn break, cannon wings, and palico steal my way to full Fatalis gear. If you arent trying to kill Fatty he isnt nearly as much of a problem because you can take your time and just focus on part breaks. Point is, the low level guys you see running this might have a higher rank than you spread across multiple characters and restarts. We are so far into this game at this point that rank means nothing. Anyone still using a character from launch is gonna have super high rank even if they still struggle with end game, conversely old players who reroll when they return will faceroll content their rank might indicate they "arent ready for".
There is too much of this going on but I don't blame the players. This is a game dev issue. I was once one of these players but after 2 quests of being one shotted or not understanding (Alatreon) I went and grinded mantles, augments, canteen, etc. Not all players are willing to do this. Especially not in todays gaming.
Ngl I wound up facing fatalis pretty early, I just remember it was pre MR 100. I had beaten Alatreon pretty smoothly without understanding that there were damage checks, and then I had cleared fatalis maybe 8 or 9 fights in. Was difficult but after I learned how absurd the tail hit box is, and his tells for which fire death he’s doing, it got a lot easier. I used the Xeno SnS for the first win, the Alatreon hammer for the second, then the rest was fatty gear The biggest thing I see I dislike, are when players of any rank do fatty multiplayer with 0 concept of game mechanics. They’ve got random unupgraded armor, weird builds, overcommitting on long attacks during short windows. One person burns every cart + the insurance in the first 5 minutes. Biggest thing about the game is to have fun, u don’t need a meta build to play the game. But if you’re burning every cart in 3-5 minutes, you’re ruining the fight for other ppl Edit: I remember my armor build was 2 piece basilgoose, for the guts
Its also the same reason why it says for requirements to be MR 24 or higher to give newcomers a rude awakening 🤣🤣🤣
I have been in a situation before where I got 1 shot by Safi and immediately 2 players abandoned the hunt leaving me and another. I'm not terrible but it is my first time fighting Safi so I got careless. Regardless, me and the other hunter managed to take down Safi no problem. I'm kinda pissed by the other 2 leaving as soon as I cart thinking the hunt is hopeless and they have to carry me but I get it. I guess you have to be mr 999 if you don't want to be seen as a burden.
I also think it’s because Capcom thought people would stop playing shortly after the story so they gave us MR 100 beasts early to not have a leap/journey to true endgame gear!
I’m MR 250+ and I don’t mess with Fatty. He messes me up pretty quick. So I wouldn’t respond to anyone else’s SOS either, just to screw up their run.
I do believe its the mentality of people wanting to have a META build. This is one of the downside of having a META build guides.
I usually try to slay a monster at least once before trying to get carried farming. Exept for kirin, it can eat a dick
I actually think this is a good thing, because I was a lower MR when I threw myself at Alatreon and Fatalis and that gave me incentive to research how other players would SOLO, let alone slay those monsters. You pick up a lot of skills trying to reverse engineer how speedrunners absolutely destroy the hardest monsters in the game. You come across cool ideas for highly specialized builds that you can then adapt for other monsters, you learn about tech like ledge hopping and all of the little nuances of your weapons, etc etc. Everything you missed out on brute forcing through the game, they make sure you take a step back to learn that stuff. I think Fatalis and Alatreon are just really good at doing their job; they’re a good old fashioned skill check to make sure you DESERVE the reward of killing them. Maybe they’re just separating the wheat from the chaff, but they definitely turned me into the wheat. It doesn’t harm anybody to be humbled a bit.
Bacause once you do alatreon and reach fatalis you can farmi alone fatalis and craft 2 Pieces set . And that armor nakes game more enjoyable
Fair enough but why do they heavily depend on people to farm Fatalis for them?
well i only play solo so i just can guess : the whole point with fatalis is the horns. you do not need anything else since all the rest is doable with plunderblade and just with a good cannon opening. but breaking the horns is not that easy alone i you are not skilled enough and/or you know very well the fight. people just want their to play the rest of the game. think about raging brachidios : once you get enough skulls to farm all its weapons and a couple of piece of armor to match with teostra you ignore it forever and ever. same but at higher level. i play solo since i have no psn and i admit that sometimes i wish i had someone who could carry me (fucking stupid hated rajang) but i just had to gitgud enough to fight my wall and overcome my limits. but really , when you die 1000 times with the same monster and you really want to get the equip sos flare is there for this . i mean i never used a single sos flare (and this is why i will never get platinum on this game even if i love it) but i would carry people mhw is so successful since it let people who are not nolifer to get endgame equip and fell satisfied. i hope they won't undo this in wilds (and this is why i won't get i day one) .
the answer is why not
Either: "Nah, i'd win" (Over confident) or "Skadoosh" (cheat)
I'm like MR 79 and I try to get carried all the time haha
Why? It’s annoying to see people join your hunt, expecting you to do all the work and chill at camp.