Happens to many of us.
It's called overages, and change of scope of work, when they ask for new stuff that falls outside the original agreement. And the moment they start asking for things outside of the original agreement is when you are supposed to bring it up (even if they pull a fast one, it's unfortunately on you to call them out on their trickiness – they're clearly trying to be sneaky and "legalistic" about it by saying you didn't include it in terms and conditions so therefore they're "allowed" to start acting silly and unprofessional).
You can eat the cost and learn to include it in the future from here-on out.
Or you can say something like, even if it wasn't specified, we agreed to 2 days for X features and Y work. When new work is included, the scope changes, and we usually revisit how the new work will impact schedule and cost.
You can say that it's industry practice to talk about it before doing it, but seeing as how you already did it and went into overages at your cost, it's right for them to pay.
You don't HAVE to give them the work, either. It's up to you. But personally I'd try to get at least 1 day, or even 2. But not let them get the work for free. Unless you want them off your back.
Story of my life. A lot of my clients are actually middle men - AKA Producers or “Creative Directors” who think that their direction (AKA reaction to your work) doesn’t count as revisions. They think it’s some grey area of content creation that is free. It takes a lot of time to realize how bad certain people are at this process. Most of these folks are neither creative, nor do they direct, so it creates an extra step for them to simply react to my work. I used to give a number of included revisions but that never really worked out because they only counted client revisions into this definition. Now I just bill more for these type of people.
Revisions are revisions. I don't care if they're your notes or your clients notes. Consolidate them, I'm not going through 5 rounds only for you to ask for changes to something that was in v1
If you want to keep their business for some reason, take the loss and update your contract to include these types of revisions.
If you don’t need their business you could withhold the project till payment is met, or send them the version of the project they paid up to. The latter is if you enjoy spite.
I think that this just has to be a learning lesson for you, and 2-3 days of unpaid work is a pretty small amount compared to other freelancer's who've had to learn this one.
My advice is suck it up, take this loss on the chin, apologize to your client for the confusion (especially if you want to keep them), and then you can change your contract in one of three ways for the future:
1. Clarify number of revisions per milestone and that overages will be charged.
2. Clarify schedule and that overages will be charged.
3. Charge more accounting for possible big revisions and then you'll average out with some clients over and some under.
Did the contract specify any "corrections" or really sounds like client changes? If not I don't see why they are entitled to any changes.
In your position I would not have asked for an additional day, instead inform them you need to charge 4 days because changes aren't specified in the contract, then maybe compromise at 3 days if they balk.
It’s called scope creep.
Outline a DETAILED plan and schedule before every project. Sometimes known as a scope of work.
Define how many rounds of feedback per phase, when feedback is due to you, and what the repercussions are if the client delays, is late, or requests more changes.
All of these client headaches can be mitigated with a properly and well written scope of work.
I would not do the changes, but that’s easier said than done when money you need to survive is on the line.
Up to you on how you want to handle it. If you can not miss out on this pay day then maybe just get it done, but you’re 100% justified to demand more money, just know that.
Lots of good advice here on how to proceed in the future.
I’d just add: ask yourself how important this client is first. You’re already in some muddy waters, so being polite and tucking tail slightly might be worth more in the long run than the additional pay.
I am *not* advocating you work for free, but if the client might bring me more business in the future (direct or by referral) I’d at least try to put a dollar value on that in my head before standing my ground.
That said, contracts work both ways. If it wasn’t specified you’d do the work, you don’t have to do it. If you did the work and it wasn’t specified they have to pay, they don’t have to pay.
That’s where it comes down to gray area and reputation.
Getting paid at this point is going to take some finesse on your part to convince them they need to. That’s the tricky social aspect of freelancing.
Anyways, just some food for thought. You know your situation better than any of us do. Good luck!
another important question to ask is do you really want to work with people like this going forward? If the answer is no (because they are obviously not easy to work with and already making your life miserable) then I would cut bait and tell them there was no agreement in place stating they had unlimited changes and that they have gone outside the scope of work discussed, whether on paper or not, they know they are doing it. Just my two cents.
Always overcalculate your days of work. If you think it will be 2 days tell that it will take 4. In this way you give some flexibility to the client and for yourself as well. You can look like helpful and cool, but they won’t know it is already calculated in the price. For feedback it is usually 3 rounds.
A lot of good advice here. I just want to add that you should tell a client BEFORE it gets to the point of charging overages. Just say politely something to the effect of “some of these notes are beyond the scope of what we initially agreed. I can do notes 1-10, but if you want 11-13 I’m afraid I’ll need to charge extra for that or else I’ll be loosing money”.
Unfortunately you can’t charge extra unless they’ve agreed to it ahead of time. If they’re cool clients you might be able to ask nicely for a little extra, but that’s more of a favor and not something you have leverage to demand.
For future, you can also consider quantifying the amount of time allocated for revision changes effort that is included in the agreement. This alleviates complete rework or a client changing their mind on the overall creative and leaving you in a position to start from scratch.
So, say your quote/agreement lands on 20 hours of effort. Then indicate that it includes or allows for 10% revision changes for example. So for 20 hours of effort, an additional 2 hours of effort (10%) is allowed for changes or updates. Anything on top of that, or not reasonably in that ballpark, will incur additional cost.
This also puts the onus on the client to pay attention to what their brief indicates and what their expectations are, as very often, they don't, and dump it back on the developer to keep reworking content blindly until the client is happy. I've seen this go off the rails badly.
If you’re charging a project fee and you have a contract, you have signed up for this one, IMO. Sorry, but take the L this time.
Next time you’re starting a new project, you can send them a Scope of Work (SoW) document. This is a bullet list of work items that requires the client’s signature BEFORE you start work - it’s the official commissioning statement of the project.
If you have a Zoom meeting where they make changes on signed-off amends and it’s going to cause you to lose time/money against what was initially agreed, guess what? It’s out of scope, and both parties know. For you to do that extra work, there has to be an addendum to that document, which makes it very easy to ask for money to cover the extra working time because… you guessed it… it’s out of scope.
I know this is extra hassle, I never really use contracts or sows, but f- me it would have saved my ass every time I foolishly agreed to do fluid simulation on a 2 week project
I have just come off a project where i shouted down the phone at my client agency because they kept saying yes to all the amends the production company were asking for (weirdly the end client never had any amends) and here’s the thing - they kept updating the SoW but i had a £2k buyout on the project expecting it to take 4 days. Took almost 3 weeks and I didn’t see a penny from SoW addenda.
I had a similar experience. Client called me and said the edit should be an extremely easy one. I quoted $500 for what I thought was a few hours of work. Months of revisions, well over the $500 mark. I finished the project and when I was asked if I could do other work, I said I was traveling too much for more work. They haven't talked to me since. As others have said, take the L and learn from the experience. Best of luck out there!
Years from now you’ll have much better clients than this and get paid more for a few hours work than this whole project is probably paying even if you get the extra 2 days.
Make your case but ultimately you probably need to be ready to just take the loss. You can try to play games with them but burning bridges is rarely worth it.
Stuff like this is why it’s a great idea to work for a day rate whenever possible.
This is the toughest thing with being a freelancer and something we all face. Big studios have this problem too. If you are too strict then you are seen as not very helpful and are unlikely to get repeat work. Sometimes though clients totally take the piss and a certain point you may not want repeat business from a client that will milk a project until you feel like you are working for peanuts in the end.
It definitely helps to start with a schedule and structure that includes sign off on concepts, layouts, elements, board animatic etc. then 1 or 2 delivery dates for WIP and a final delivery date. Then in theory if the elements have been signed off on before you animate them it's easier to argue that they either can't be changed or it will cost extra to do so.
Sometimes even this doesn't work though. Good luck, be friendly, be helpful but try to manage expectations and don't work again with people who are happy to screw you because they will do it every time.
Happens to many of us. It's called overages, and change of scope of work, when they ask for new stuff that falls outside the original agreement. And the moment they start asking for things outside of the original agreement is when you are supposed to bring it up (even if they pull a fast one, it's unfortunately on you to call them out on their trickiness – they're clearly trying to be sneaky and "legalistic" about it by saying you didn't include it in terms and conditions so therefore they're "allowed" to start acting silly and unprofessional). You can eat the cost and learn to include it in the future from here-on out. Or you can say something like, even if it wasn't specified, we agreed to 2 days for X features and Y work. When new work is included, the scope changes, and we usually revisit how the new work will impact schedule and cost. You can say that it's industry practice to talk about it before doing it, but seeing as how you already did it and went into overages at your cost, it's right for them to pay. You don't HAVE to give them the work, either. It's up to you. But personally I'd try to get at least 1 day, or even 2. But not let them get the work for free. Unless you want them off your back.
Story of my life. A lot of my clients are actually middle men - AKA Producers or “Creative Directors” who think that their direction (AKA reaction to your work) doesn’t count as revisions. They think it’s some grey area of content creation that is free. It takes a lot of time to realize how bad certain people are at this process. Most of these folks are neither creative, nor do they direct, so it creates an extra step for them to simply react to my work. I used to give a number of included revisions but that never really worked out because they only counted client revisions into this definition. Now I just bill more for these type of people.
Revisions are revisions. I don't care if they're your notes or your clients notes. Consolidate them, I'm not going through 5 rounds only for you to ask for changes to something that was in v1
If you want to keep their business for some reason, take the loss and update your contract to include these types of revisions. If you don’t need their business you could withhold the project till payment is met, or send them the version of the project they paid up to. The latter is if you enjoy spite.
I think that this just has to be a learning lesson for you, and 2-3 days of unpaid work is a pretty small amount compared to other freelancer's who've had to learn this one. My advice is suck it up, take this loss on the chin, apologize to your client for the confusion (especially if you want to keep them), and then you can change your contract in one of three ways for the future: 1. Clarify number of revisions per milestone and that overages will be charged. 2. Clarify schedule and that overages will be charged. 3. Charge more accounting for possible big revisions and then you'll average out with some clients over and some under.
Did the contract specify any "corrections" or really sounds like client changes? If not I don't see why they are entitled to any changes. In your position I would not have asked for an additional day, instead inform them you need to charge 4 days because changes aren't specified in the contract, then maybe compromise at 3 days if they balk.
It’s called scope creep. Outline a DETAILED plan and schedule before every project. Sometimes known as a scope of work. Define how many rounds of feedback per phase, when feedback is due to you, and what the repercussions are if the client delays, is late, or requests more changes. All of these client headaches can be mitigated with a properly and well written scope of work. I would not do the changes, but that’s easier said than done when money you need to survive is on the line. Up to you on how you want to handle it. If you can not miss out on this pay day then maybe just get it done, but you’re 100% justified to demand more money, just know that.
Lots of good advice here on how to proceed in the future. I’d just add: ask yourself how important this client is first. You’re already in some muddy waters, so being polite and tucking tail slightly might be worth more in the long run than the additional pay. I am *not* advocating you work for free, but if the client might bring me more business in the future (direct or by referral) I’d at least try to put a dollar value on that in my head before standing my ground. That said, contracts work both ways. If it wasn’t specified you’d do the work, you don’t have to do it. If you did the work and it wasn’t specified they have to pay, they don’t have to pay. That’s where it comes down to gray area and reputation. Getting paid at this point is going to take some finesse on your part to convince them they need to. That’s the tricky social aspect of freelancing. Anyways, just some food for thought. You know your situation better than any of us do. Good luck!
another important question to ask is do you really want to work with people like this going forward? If the answer is no (because they are obviously not easy to work with and already making your life miserable) then I would cut bait and tell them there was no agreement in place stating they had unlimited changes and that they have gone outside the scope of work discussed, whether on paper or not, they know they are doing it. Just my two cents.
Always overcalculate your days of work. If you think it will be 2 days tell that it will take 4. In this way you give some flexibility to the client and for yourself as well. You can look like helpful and cool, but they won’t know it is already calculated in the price. For feedback it is usually 3 rounds.
A lot of good advice here. I just want to add that you should tell a client BEFORE it gets to the point of charging overages. Just say politely something to the effect of “some of these notes are beyond the scope of what we initially agreed. I can do notes 1-10, but if you want 11-13 I’m afraid I’ll need to charge extra for that or else I’ll be loosing money”. Unfortunately you can’t charge extra unless they’ve agreed to it ahead of time. If they’re cool clients you might be able to ask nicely for a little extra, but that’s more of a favor and not something you have leverage to demand.
Expensive lesson, be glad it was only a couple of days. Work on your contracts and client communication.
For future, you can also consider quantifying the amount of time allocated for revision changes effort that is included in the agreement. This alleviates complete rework or a client changing their mind on the overall creative and leaving you in a position to start from scratch. So, say your quote/agreement lands on 20 hours of effort. Then indicate that it includes or allows for 10% revision changes for example. So for 20 hours of effort, an additional 2 hours of effort (10%) is allowed for changes or updates. Anything on top of that, or not reasonably in that ballpark, will incur additional cost. This also puts the onus on the client to pay attention to what their brief indicates and what their expectations are, as very often, they don't, and dump it back on the developer to keep reworking content blindly until the client is happy. I've seen this go off the rails badly.
If you’re charging a project fee and you have a contract, you have signed up for this one, IMO. Sorry, but take the L this time. Next time you’re starting a new project, you can send them a Scope of Work (SoW) document. This is a bullet list of work items that requires the client’s signature BEFORE you start work - it’s the official commissioning statement of the project. If you have a Zoom meeting where they make changes on signed-off amends and it’s going to cause you to lose time/money against what was initially agreed, guess what? It’s out of scope, and both parties know. For you to do that extra work, there has to be an addendum to that document, which makes it very easy to ask for money to cover the extra working time because… you guessed it… it’s out of scope. I know this is extra hassle, I never really use contracts or sows, but f- me it would have saved my ass every time I foolishly agreed to do fluid simulation on a 2 week project
I have just come off a project where i shouted down the phone at my client agency because they kept saying yes to all the amends the production company were asking for (weirdly the end client never had any amends) and here’s the thing - they kept updating the SoW but i had a £2k buyout on the project expecting it to take 4 days. Took almost 3 weeks and I didn’t see a penny from SoW addenda.
I had a similar experience. Client called me and said the edit should be an extremely easy one. I quoted $500 for what I thought was a few hours of work. Months of revisions, well over the $500 mark. I finished the project and when I was asked if I could do other work, I said I was traveling too much for more work. They haven't talked to me since. As others have said, take the L and learn from the experience. Best of luck out there!
It should have been mentioned? If they wanted to change the scope of work it should have been mentioned!
Years from now you’ll have much better clients than this and get paid more for a few hours work than this whole project is probably paying even if you get the extra 2 days. Make your case but ultimately you probably need to be ready to just take the loss. You can try to play games with them but burning bridges is rarely worth it. Stuff like this is why it’s a great idea to work for a day rate whenever possible.
This is the toughest thing with being a freelancer and something we all face. Big studios have this problem too. If you are too strict then you are seen as not very helpful and are unlikely to get repeat work. Sometimes though clients totally take the piss and a certain point you may not want repeat business from a client that will milk a project until you feel like you are working for peanuts in the end. It definitely helps to start with a schedule and structure that includes sign off on concepts, layouts, elements, board animatic etc. then 1 or 2 delivery dates for WIP and a final delivery date. Then in theory if the elements have been signed off on before you animate them it's easier to argue that they either can't be changed or it will cost extra to do so. Sometimes even this doesn't work though. Good luck, be friendly, be helpful but try to manage expectations and don't work again with people who are happy to screw you because they will do it every time.