I think the biggest consideration(s) have to be:
How close it is to mainland America and language barrier.
Hawaii is 6 hours to California and another 6 to reach the other side being the east coast. Flying to Europe is quite a hassle in comparison especially when it comes visas, declaring stuff, and everything involved with international travel. Let’s not forget time zones.
Most Americans (like 95%) only speak English. Everyone in Hawaii speaks English fluently lol. Yeah most Europeans speak English, but there’s always a language disparity. We all instinctively want to speak our native language, absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Without a doubt a place like Croatia seems amazing, but there’s also some personal reasons why Americans wouldn’t move to Croatia. Using myself as an example, I’m Asian. Everyone in Hawaii thinks and treats me like a local. Not all Americans who move to Hawaii are white, Hispanic, or black. Quite frankly there’s a good amount that are Asian and opt to stay as long as they can. In Croatia, it goes without saying, I’d stick out like a sore thumb. I also vastly prefer Asian cuisines over Western cuisines. I love Italian and Portuguese cuisine, but i don’t think Croatia is known for those cuisines, let alone Asian cuisine.
Yeah the prices are insane, costs of living? BONKERS. But I never got this type of ease of living and being treated as an equal unlike when I Iived in mainland America or when I lived abroad in Europe for some time (study abroad).
There’s also this huge fantasy of Hawaii with most Americans due to how “not America” it is while still being technically America (if you know what I mean). You live like a non American but still have the same liberties, rights, and laws that the USA has. People would rather just stick to what they know instinctively, and that’s just human nature.
But yeah those are just a few reasons I can name top of my head
Im from San Francisco and the only place i really feel comfortable moving to is another neighboring city or hawaii. Its weird to grow up in a city with alot of people who look like you, share the culture and even visit a place with no one that looks like you.
Ive gotten weird looks in rural Idaho, and rural California. We drive a tundra and was in utah. Some guy parked next to our truck, we came out of the hotel to grab something from the truck. Dude looks at us and parks somewhere else..shit like that has never happened in sf.
We visit hawaii and people keep thinking my husband is local, they start speaking pidgin to him and giving us the local resturant discount. I would love to move to hawaii. It feels like home culture wise, cost of living is about the same and yall actually have summers. We had like 5 days of 70+ weather this summer, now its back in the 60s.
I totally agree, I grew up with mainly White, Mexicans and Filipinos but I’m eastern Asian. Still a different ballgame since the Filipinos I grew up with RESENTED Asian culture (I’m not kidding here). Lot of the Filipinas talked shit about Asian guys to non Filipinos about how Asian guys are lame, weak, and really funny looking. It was pretty anti Asian in that regard if I’m being honest. Guys didn’t give a shit and I never had a problem with them to be honest but with Filipinos? Nah they always talked shit about each other and being Asian is dumb. They always claimed islanders are different than Asians. Idk man 🤷🏻♂️
When I moved down to LA for a brief moment, that was the only time I felt like I wasn’t always looked at for going to the grocery store lol.
Entirely depends on which state or part of the country. California, New York, Florida? Oh yeah 100% so many people speak two languages. But the rest of the country? Idk man lol
From a cultural perspective, Hawaii is heavily romanticized in movies and other forms. Croatia, while admittedly beautiful, is not as significantly present in the American psyche.
From a safety perspective, I'm physically located in my own country of citizenship, where presumably, there are laws and public systems built to serve me. Also, I'm not 818 miles from an active war.
From a legal perspective, Croatian land ownership is complicated and open to interpretation. I don't have decades to fight out in court on the other side of the planet.
Is croatia an amazing place people should consider? For sure! Is it in the same league as Hawaii? No, if it was, single family homes would also be going for an average 1million USD.
"Croatian land ownership is complicated" true. Lot's of complications bc of the war (1990s), communistic land stealing and bad burocracy.
but buying a flat or house is 99% safe when buying from known real estate firms who first checks it.
In Hawaii you cannot even buy a house in some parts if you don't have some gene seed, extreme HOA, weird lease system, sharing expenses of streets with communities on the same parcel...
"Also, I'm not 818 miles from an active war." I mean, 1000 miles is a lot and has nothing to do with Croatia for now.
"Is it in the same league as Hawaii?" IMFAO Croatia is better. If you look at Hawaii as a country which is half the size of Croatia, you should also take into consideration half of Croatia. Which offers much more. Plitvica Lakes, Krk, Split, Rijeka, Opatija, 78 bigger islands (vs 128 Hawaii of which are many private). Mixed with a cultural heritage you won't find that easy in the world in such a small place (10 Unesco places vs 1 in Hawaii)
* Hawaii has one entry in the UNESCO Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity. This entry is for the "Hula," vs 17 from Croatia.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/pmoud5/plitvice\_lakes\_croatia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/pmoud5/plitvice_lakes_croatia/)
[https://www.klook.com/en-IN/activity/109111-plitvice-lakes-guided-day-tour-entry-ticket-split/](https://www.klook.com/en-IN/activity/109111-plitvice-lakes-guided-day-tour-entry-ticket-split/)
[https://www.mare-vrbnik.com/de/blog/tagesausflug-insel-krk](https://www.mare-vrbnik.com/de/blog/tagesausflug-insel-krk)
[https://visitrijeka.hr/trsat/](https://visitrijeka.hr/trsat/)
"single family home" what do you consider as a single family home?
Croatians build big.
[https://www.njuskalo.hr/prodaja-kuca/dubrovnik#google\_vignette](https://www.njuskalo.hr/prodaja-kuca/dubrovnik#google_vignette)
[https://www.njuskalo.hr/nekretnine/dubrovnik-jedinstvena-kamena-kuca-prvi-red-mora-oglas-40950328](https://www.njuskalo.hr/nekretnine/dubrovnik-jedinstvena-kamena-kuca-prvi-red-mora-oglas-40950328)
Hawaii is extremely overpriced, that is the point. Imports, high demand make the houses costly. Croatia as an American state would cost crazy levels - but already costs with an average of 600.000€ a lot (which is over Germany level)
Dude what the fuck does a "unesco world heritage site" have to do with anything? "So you don't get bored" what so you can drive ALL over the country of Croatia and look at the same 10 sites that someone deemed important? THATS your metric for living somewhere is a unesco world heritage site.
You place entirely too much stock in artificial titles of things. I bet you go CRAZY for subpar Michelin star restaurants too just because some bozo decided it was good.
The point here is Hawaii isn’t a country, it’s a part of the United States. Your information is strange 128 Hawaiian islands? Many of them are private? What are you talking about?
Comparing Hawaii to Croatia is like comparing a Maserati to a nice Honda. I am saying this as an East European who have been to both places multiple times.
Agree to disagree. Plitvica Lakes alone is one the most beautiful places on earth. The topic was more about living there. Croatia has literally ten times more UNESCO places so you don't get bored. Of course Hawaii has nice(r) weather, mostly nicer beaches, but that is it.
Also for the same money in Croatia you could get a 6 stars hotel with a private driver driving you to all nice places. really not comparable in the quality of service.
You seem to only be focused on the appearance and nature of the islands for comparison. There are more aspects to choosing a place to live than what it looks like.
The ability to stay a US citizen and live somewhere tropical. The weather... the food as a byproduct of the weather. Easy travel to the mainland if you have family there. Hawai`i also has Aloha ʻĀina. I don't know if it is the active land or what, but you FEEL something there. It pulls you in. It is like a love you have never felt, and once you feel it, you don't ever want to be without it. ❤️
>Hawaiʻi also has Aloha ʻĀina
As a hawaiian, please stfu. ʻĀloha ʻāina isn’t exclusive to Hawa’ii, but essentially is a thing in a lot cultures around the world, if not all.
Im tired of haoles misinterpreting & disrespecting ʻOlelo Hawaiʻi with your own twist, without fully understanding some of the things we say.
Pretty sure others would agree with me here.
It's really a compliment to your culture in the intended context. The love that is there for Hawaiian culture, the islands, the history, the spirituality, nature, natural resources... yes, other places have a degree of these, but what you have is definitely unique to Hawai'i. You can't have a collective feel something so deeply, and it not permeate to people not of the culture. It's a beautiful thing - so much pride and passion! I don't think there is anywhere else that has it because, as you implied, it is multifaceted and you really have to be of the culture to fully understand it. That doesn't mean that I am not aware of it. It doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to me. I do not have to be a botanist to see the beauty in plants. Nor do I need to be Hawaiian to appreciate the beauty of Hawai i and Hawaiian culture. I'm not claiming to understand nuances or what it means to you. It exists. That is what I am saying. And I felt it because it exists. I couldn't describe in other words because only those words refer to what you have going on there. Your reaction is even part of it.
Check comment history, they give you a picture. This guy is just pissed at most things and dedicates his life to graffiti and defacing shared spaces, not really anyone who grasps a true love of any land right now.
As an indigenous person, thanks for speaking out against appropriated bs. People want to pretend indigenous culture means something to them while completely disrespecting the people who belong to that culture when moving onto their land and using up resources. There is zero self awareness in their entitlement.
You seem pretty entitled and lack that self-awareness you're bragging about when you speak for all indigenous peoples. You Kanaka? Na, didn't think so.
it is nice but it is also very expensive and many people have daily struggle to survive. Plus it is not that safe (compared to US maybe but 4 times more violent crimes then in Croatia)
I understand what you are saying. But... I never worry about crime. I've never been attacked by anyone. I think the greater risks of violent crime are: getting drunk, going where drunks go, and being an asshole. I go hike. I nap on empty beaches. I eat poke at the farmer's markets and say nice things to people. How in the world would I attract violence? I was visiting BI and on a public beach, and someone local started talking to me and said there was nothing at this beach for me... legally, could I be there? Yes. But it was adjacent to a very traditional Hawaiian fishing villiage and they didn't want me there. I didn't get offended, I didn't defend myself. I apologized. I thanked them for the little bit of time I got. There is plenty of coastline on the BI. I say this because respect and compassion is fundamental. Self respect, respect for others, respect for Hawai'i, etc. You will not attract violence if you do this.
Yeah that lolo at Miloli’i Beach Park has been an absolute pain in the ass. She’s squatting and in violation herself. Prior to her we’ve had few bad interactions with the villagers. Mainly the occasional stink eye and that’s usually someone visiting uncle or aunty from outside the village! The beach you’re referring to is open to all, just be very respectful as you traverse other’s property enroute.
Eh, that violent crime stat is misleading. The number of violent crime incidents may be higher in Hawaii, but the stat misses context. The vast majority (>75%) of those violent crimes were not random, ie the victims knew the perpetrators. If you don’t go to the chicken fights and pay your gambling debts, you have virtually zero chance of being violently assaulted.
You’re talking about things that look good on paper, but don’t consider soft things like social life. Americans have way easier to blend in and build a social network in Hawaii than in Europe.
More like 3 times. But both are very low to begin with, going from 0.8 per 100,000 in Croatia (down 100% from 2021 to 2022) to 2.5 per 100,000 in Hawaii. So the change (although triple) is starting from really low numbers.
I've spent time in both, Croatia is very clean and nice for sure. A couple things that would be hard to live in Croatia for me: incredibly homogenous population, a lot of the popular areas feel more like Disneyland than an immersive cultural hub (e.g. Dubrovnik), and it wasn't too long ago that the area was in a major war (Bosnia's really okay with Croatia basically land-locking it? Was funny seeing the 7 km of Bosnian coast)
But Croatia is wonderful and access to the EU is huge. Hawaii has a lot more grit (some that I loved) and is really isolated, expensive to travel from.
I'd rather go the Croatia route but citizenship makes it very difficult. Hawaii was somewhere I could move without citizenship barriers. I'd much rather be in Europe.
I've looked into it a lot. My mom is able to get German citizenship by descent but I'm too far removed. Always looking for other ways to get there and move my kids.
The violent crime rate on Kauai is 1/3 the national average. It is extremely safe. Other islands, I don't know, but that is one thing I love about living on Kauai.
I appreciate your perspective but your arguments are a bit off. The climate of Hawaii is vastly different from that of Croatia. There are, in small pockets, similarities. And while Hawaii has several different climates, the islands for the most part are all very tropical and temperate. Rain is warm. The water is, on average, 10-20 degrees warmer than the Croatian Mediterranean waters year round. The weather in Croatia can be brutally extreme, snowing in Slavonia during the winter and be well over 100 degrees in the summer. I’ve lived in both Honolulu and Hvar. Cost of living, give me Croatia. But quality of life, I’ve never been anywhere better than Hawaii, bruddah.
Hawaii is great and appeals to everyone around the world. I guarantee you Hawaii is safer as long as you stay off the difficult areas. For example, Waianae is not a place for tourists to be roaming around. Redditors doesnt mean anything.
Finally, my last consideration to love Hawaii is that it is America without the burdens of America. We don't have border issues or cross cultural gang violence here like the states. To me this is the best state I have lived in. I have lived in 9 states.
You can have attachment to Croatia and don't take offense but I never even think about Europe, much less Croatia.
lol. When I moved here 18 years ago I was told to stay out of Waianae. 4 kids later, my fiancé was born and raised there. I agree there, probably shouldn’t go unless you have reasons to. Similarly the same goes to certain parts of Waikiki and other sketchy areas.
Now Hawaii is so overpriced with everything. But I do feel it’s safer here than many other states in the mainland. Lately there has been some bad crime. I’ve noticed it’s usually amongst people who know each other or in a fit of rage like on the road or drunken silliness.
Ive been here so long now that I forget how beautiful the scenery and beaches are. I gotta remind myself that I’m living in a paradise that people only wish to be in. As pricey as it is, it is home.
In 2022, homicide rate for Croatia was **0.8 cases per 100,000 population**.
In Hawaii it 2.5, so 4x more.
I think that is the answer for my question: Americans just don't think about Europe. I have met many Americans who moved to Germany from L.A. and they are more than happy to live here.
As one of them said: as an American you just don't get how many anxieties originate from the US life. Like the fear of getting very ill, jobless, getting shot.
If you have a connection to Croatia, it may be good for you. But Croatia is on not even on our radars. For better or worse America is my home. I feel just fine where I am right now.
yeah that is totally fine. The US's life quality literally differs per street or district, yet alone state. You can have decent job and a house and live 10x better than the average Croatian.
>We don't have border issues or cross cultural gang violence here like the states.
What does this even mean lol
As if immigrants aren't moving to Hawaii? Also there are cultural gangs in Hawaii?
Compare this to being a border town like Texas man. We don't have caravans of people crossing to USA. To come to Hawaii you need a boat or an airplane. To do that with a coyote is probably the stupidest riskiest idea and I doubt anyone is doing it.
The violence in Hawaii is Hawaii's own. If you experience a border state, there is gang violence fighting for control. MS-13 from El Salvador, cartel lackeys. My dad works in a court and these guys are always into something new. For example one dude from MS-13 was selling his own sister to prostitution. In Hawaii, most of the crime is property crime.
It’s a long trip from Europe to Hawai’i as well. I’ve been several times and it can take over 24 hrs.
If you just want some local that is Tropical or semi tropical, check out FL, Bahamas, Virgin Islands or Central America.
Most are cheaper than Hawai’i and more accessible to Europe.
Deciding where you want to live is very subjective, it is by no means quantitative or even predictable. Only a vanishingly small number of US citizens aspire to live in Hawaii, much less relocate from the continental US to Hawaii; of those that _do_ relocate, many of them don't stay for more than a year or two.
It's not for everybody, and most people know that without asking.
Regardless of what you hear around elections, Americans don’t like to move to other countries as a whole. They like the ease of not needing a visa or passport and not learning a new language.
People in the US often talk about Hawaii when they are still in the fantasy stage of relocating. Once you're being realistic, Croatia would still be way down the list for a lot of us. Much closer to the US, you have Puerto Rico, you have Mexico, places where you have varying weather and infrastructure problems but every place has those. And the US has more of a relationship. Many of us also have family connections somewhere like Puerto Rico. If you ever want to see your family members in the mainland US, it is much easier for them to travel in the Caribbean or South America, or for you to go back there. And if I'm in Chicago or someplace visiting family there and hear that my house if Puerto Rico is flooded, I can fly down at the drop of a hat.
This is a really interesting thread.
Cost of living - yes, Croatia wins that. But you’re forgetting that Americans only have freedom of movement (for where we live and work) within our 50 states + Puerto Rico + US territories. We can’t just move to Croatia like a resident of the EU can. It’s a huge pain in the ass from an administrative standpoint (and as far as I’m aware, no “golden visa” exists like Portugal, for example, so we can’t just buy our way in at a reasonable amount like US$ 500K).
In addition to the citizenship issue, you have to separate the “US vs EU” stuff. Health care, education, etc — all are objectively more democratized in the EU. But Hawai’i and Croatia…they are two completely different places: geography, climate, language, culture, cuisine, ethnicity, etc. The only real similarity is people go there on summer holiday.
Having spent nearly 3 weeks in Croatia a couple years back and returning from 10 days in Hawaii this week, I can safely say they are both wonderful places.
Hawaii is stupid expansive though. I joke with my wife that every interaction there is a hundred bucks. They also have more high end resort properties…like 10:1 ratio. More sandy beaches and much warmer water than the Adriatic. The people are delightful and warm…this is the Aloha vibe.
There are many things I loved about Croatia, too. History/Architecture were fascinating, people were inviting, European style beach clubs are awesome, delicious local olive oils, interesting wines, fabulous truffles in Istria, etc. It was also cool to see the newer infrastructure (post recent war).
I find it more appealing that the weather is not extreme (not too hot not to cold). Summers everywhere get extremely hot at least a couple of days, while Hawaii seems stable in this regard.
I think it would be hard to find such similarly mild weather in Croatia or other parts of the world, which I think is the big attraction for a lot of people.
yeah that is true and biggest reason to move/visit there. Weather + tropical vegetation Especially for older people favorable. In Croatia the summers are too hot, in the Winter it is around 40-60 degree fahrenheit
Some people fall in love with it when they visit. If you fall in love with a place, you find a way to live there. All places have beautiful things about them, but different people are different, and like different things.
Hawaii has a unique culture, history, and personally I love it here. I moved here specifically because of the even temperatures but also the culture, the ocean, the people, etc.
I don't think Hawaii is right for you, it's understandable that you don't see the appeal, but I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to compare Hawaii to elsewhere. Either it appeals to you, or it doesn't, and it's clear that it doesn't. Different people like different things. Based on the comments you've made, I don't think you'd like it here anyway, culturally I think you'd find yourself at odds locals and long term residents. Not saying that as an insult, just an observation. I genuinely think your energy would be better spent researching a place that appeals to you more.
Btw, crime isn't particularly high here (especially violent crime), at least compared to many parts of the US. I can't speak to other countries.
People have to suffer hard to make a living in Hawaii, invest a lot of savings into some basic housing. I find Hawaii very appealing, but am afraid generally of the US crime wise.
As someone who has a house on the sea in Croatia and wanted to checkout something new I just ask my self why not choose Croatia first if you are an average American. I am currently living in Munich and even consider moving "back", despite the much worse pay.
It was a little bit disappointing realising that Hawaii has Ghettos too and that you are not really safe at night everywhere (which you basically are in Croatia)
Why is Hawaii supposed to be the right choice for everyone though? I think you missed my point entirely. There is no such thing as a perfect place that is right for everyone, or even most.
Hawaii is part of the US, moving to another country is a way bigger hassle than moving to another state within the same country. I would never consider moving to Croatia personally, and I'd wager most Americans feel the same. Even ignoring all other reasons, most people in the US don't want to move to another country. Heck, a lot of people don't even have an interest in traveling to other countries, the idea of moving to one is nowhere on their radar.
Places don't have to be "perfect" to be someone's top choice of where they want to live. You might as well ask why people get married to partners that aren't super models or something.
Every place has "flaws" just like every person does.
Btw, have you even been here? Because if not, you're basically just making an idea of what Hawaii is like in your head.
yes sure. But IMO my thinking is just: I want to live somewhere where people do vacation. Bc working 350 days a year and then going to those places for 2 weeks is not something that is worth working for. I enjoy walking, exercising, socializing the most which you cannot really do in Germany for 6 months when it's too cold for me to enjoy.
Hawaii is great, but it is not that great for how much it costs. It is like: do you want Pizza or a Burger but the Pizza is 3x cheaper.
It is a fact that most people in Hawaii really hassle with housings and struggle to make a living, which even more makes me ask: why then Hawaii ? Why not New Zealand, Croatia, Spain, Italy?
Multiple people have told you the answer to the question you keep repeating. Weather/climate, culture, food, proximity/language, etc. Just because those things aren't important enough for you to consider the negatives to living in Hawaii worth it, doesn't mean others agree with your opinion/preference.
Hawaii is not for you and that's fine, maybe move on instead of dwelling on it.
Plus, you’d actually have to get a visa to live and work in Croatia, which you don’t have to do in Hawaii. It’s a weird comparison OP keeps making between the 2. And it’s the same for any other foreign countries, you’d still need to get a work visa, which is varying degrees of hard. Moving to another state for an American is just that, no need for visas and such.
Having been to New Zealand and Italy, NZ is a hard no. It's not cheap, water is not warm, and it's not nearly as beautiful.
Italy is somewhere I would consider moving however, Hawaii still appeals to me more for its weather, warm ocean, culture, food and proximity to US.
You don't get 2 weeks vacation in the USA You get jack shit. 100 gonna reply and say maybe they do. Fast food , warehouse, etc.. probably won't get 2 weeks paid vacation a year. SOURCE live in Texas get jack shit vacation. Been here 40 years my whole life.
Most folks in the US never consider moving to a foreign Country. The main reason they come to Hawaii is that’s it’s(like it or not) still part of the US. No changes in citizenship, visas, green cards etc…required!
Hawaii is at least 5 leagues above Croatia in multiple aspects.
Both are great destinations. But Croatia is the complete opposite of a remote Island life in the middle of the pacific
I’m seeing a lot of talk from OP about how “violent” the US is. Seems OP has never visited… most places are safe. As someone with an EU and US passport & citizenship, they’re roughly equal. East Germany doesn’t have the best rep, for example.
It seems there is too much media influence in this thread…. Come visit and see for yourself, then make a judgment.
Because I’ve never heard and never will hear someone say: “I’m going on my honeymoon to either Croatia or Hawaii” or “I’m thinking about moving to either Croatia or Hawaii”.
Sorry to not jump on your Croatia train.
Also, the crime here is low compared to the mainland. We’re talking fists vs guns, although gun crimes have increased over the years.
1. Language/Culture Barrier
2. Citizenship/Visa Concerns
Those are very large issues to just glaze over when moving anywhere, and they would inhibit most people.
So OP, I’ve read through this thread. Do you work for the Croatian ministry of tourism? Or in real estate or something? I’ve never seen someone talk about another place while shitting on the place that the sub is about before.
You appear to be a Croatia evangelizer in a way that seems… weird? How about Portugal, Spain, Arizona, the Florida Keys, or many other Mediterranean places where people decide to retire? Central/South America, Asia, lots of wonderful places in the world to compete with Croatia.
Genuine question, appreciate that like Hawaii and so many other places in the world, Croatia is a beautiful country and a place that would be wonderful to call home at many stages of life.
Are you really asking why citizens of a country don’t up and move to a foreign country just because it satisfies your bizarre hypotheticals?
Have you ever heard the words citizenship, visa, native language?
I would probably never move to Hawaii, but my husband and I just went to the Big Island for our honeymoon and if I had set my sights on moving there, I doubt any other place would even compare. He agrees. You have to see it to believe it. Hawaii is not just the beach.
With the costs being what they are on Maui, Oahu, etc, I’m surprised Molokai hasn’t blown up over the last few years. Their reputation for being unfriendly to tourists has paid off IMO. I live in CA and hear of people going to Hawaii all the time- not one has ever gone to Molokai, despite there being time shares there.
I respect that and honestly, I felt a little weird on Lanai. The locals were all super friendly but the fact that everyone is beholden to Ellison feels creepy. I'm leaving Molokai to the locals.
Hawaii is America. There are jobs that pay well, and everyone speaks english. You can't just go to Croatia as an american and expect to get a well-paying job there. Many people also like American culture, becahse it us something they grew up with, so they prefer to stay within their comfort zone.
Hawaii would probably disagree with the take that it’s America. Very different vibes out here compared to mainland. But ya, you will get around well with English.
Just a very vocal minority has an issue with that fact.
What they’re saying is absolutely correct, same language, same religions/churches, same currency, no visa needed etc…Just like moving to any other state in America except for some increased prices and cultural differences.
Did some light reading on the embassy website.
There's a nomad worker visa requires £2850 monthly income.
For expats there's verbage of having "the means" to stay but doesn't outline the amount.
For a vacation visa it looks like $80-100/day is required.
**A visa is not required for U.S. passport holders for temporary tourist and business trips up to 90 days** (during a six-month period, starting from the day of the first entry). Time spent in any of the Schengen countries counts towards the total 90 days in Schengen
Sure, but you’re suggesting people move to Croatia, which means it would be their sole and permanent residence and where they would need to find work to support themselves. How would an American go about that?
The biggest issue which you already raised is “being American“. That being said, if I was younger and knew then what I knew now, I would definitely move out of the country for both the experience and the opportunity. However, when you get older and are on the downhill side of life, meaning nearing retirement, moving out of the country to somewhere else is much more difficult. The other issues are things like insurance, family, etc.
I think you are trying to use facts and figures to understand what is essentially an emotional or spiritual thing. Read up about Hawaiian culture and the concept of mana. Many people feel drawn to the islands in a special way, on a level that doesn’t factor into your lists of world heritage sites or crime stats.
There’s a lot of hoops to jump through when moving to Europe especially if you still need to work. I would love to move to Cyprus but it’s too hard to legally immigrate there and earn a livable wage.
Interesting that you think Americans can just snap their fingers and magically choose to live in a European country without consideration of visa and residency requirements, employment, language barrier, etc. And I have lived abroad before, so that's part of my frame of reference. Frankly, this is a naive question.
Is this a real question? Americans consider moving to Hawaii and not Croatian because they’re American citizens, not Croatians. Moving to another country you have citizenship is complicated.
Americans can legally work in Hawaii. Getting legal residence or a work permit in the EU is a difficult road. I think more Americans would consider moving to Europe if we could, but we cannot.
One is literally a US state. The other is another country. You’re asking why it’s easier for an Americans to move within their own country than it is to immigrate to a different one?
It has been embedded in America’s head for years as a US state that is a literal paradise. So it’s comfortable in the fact that it’s considered to be a part of America, yet it’s exotic enough to be completely unlike anything the mainland can offer. There is a definite learning curve in terms of culture, but most people don’t find that out until they move here.
It’s a state , the only difficulty is logistics and money , but you have the same problems in Croatia plus it’s a different country so you have all new problems
OP, let me recap for you: why hawaii vs Croatia for American? visa issue, Job opportunities(it’s fewer high income jobs here, but at least you don’t need visa to find a job) , language(everyone speaks English), inclusivity/social life( you can correct me if I am wrong but based on Google, Croatian has 92% Croat. Hawaii is more diverse). Weather (warm not hot, no winter), close to mainland (majority of Americans have a family in mainland, so convenient around Europe is not really a selling point), the list goes on.
COL is insanely high indeed but it is just one aspect when it comes to choosing your permanent residency. That’s why there are still many people going to Bay Area, New York, etc.
Maybe it’s me, but how is this a question? Not everyone can live everywhere due to passport issues?
Is this a question for the wildly wealthy who don’t care about such issues?
I don’t understand this.
“Hawaii, dangerous to live” - what? Hawaii is one of the safest places I’ve ever lived.
“Croatia, rather arid climate and hotter” - Hawaiian has an ideal climate not too hot in the summer and absolutely perfect in the winter.
I’m sure Croatia is a fantastic place but Hawaii is known as a tropical paradise for a reason
You’re literally comparing the crown jewel of vacation paradises in the world (Hawaii), to an average vacation spot (Croatia)
Hawaii is unusual in that it has a mild tropical climate year-round (25C to 30C), and free of any natural disasters (heatwave, arctic blast, hurricanes, typhoons, earthquakes etc). None of the other popular destinations (such as Phuket, Bali, Florida, Cancun or any European destinations). Heck there are basically no bugs/mosquitoes in Hawaii. Croatia is nice for tourists but further south in Montenegro and Albania…yikes (from my personal experience as an American)
Let's talk about the people. Hawaiians are a pretty small club, yet they developed a distinct cuisine, fashion, sport, dance, and language that unlike anything else on earth. And it's all still practiced today.
If you move here, you'll never be one of them, but you'll always feel welcome. (If you think that Hawaiians are rude, it's usually not them that's the problem.) In fact being kind is actually the law. We don't enforce that law, but it sends a message of the behavior we expect from others.
As far as crime, I don't worry. I walk through an area populated with homeless every day on the way to work, and live in a part of town called the Meth Triangle. And I've never been bothered. I'm far more concerned that my health insurance isn't going to cover something that could kill me than some random stranger.
I've lived in 22 cities in 4 countries on 3 continents. They all had their strengths (well, maybe not Oklahoma.) But no place feels like home the way Hawai'i does.
IOW: Aloha is real. I'm a Californian and don't have the means to move to Hawai'i, especially without displacing someone who was born there, but I've adopted Aloha as my athiest's religion.
As someone who eventually would like to retire in hawaii. We enjoy it because we are based out of Oregon and it's under 6 hours. Croatia is way further. Being asian, I fit in like a glove in hawaii. If there's a family emergency, I can be there within a day, if not same day. Food is spot on for us over European food. Not to say one is better but more comfort to someone like me. Crime is bad due to lots of lower income family, I've been there plenty of times and feel totally safe, much safer than my hometown with all the homeless here
(throwaway account) this is so funny, i’m a 2nd generation american that spent every summer with my extended croatian family back in croatia, and i now live in hawaii. i’ll edit my comment with more details in a few hours, running some errands now.
short answer is: you probably haven’t spent extended periods of time in both countries, and you’re not an american, so you don’t understand our perspective. You’re totally right about some things though! i’ll explain more later 🙂
Local in Hawaii. Crime? It’s a pretty safe place. Even Honolulu is decently chill. There are maybe 2 or 3 neighborhoods not to go to at night, but still would during the day. The weather is also unbeatable. The community here is amazing, and the surf is unbeatable.
Having travelled to both places I can say for a short while Hawaii would be an exotic vacation in a part of the world that is unlike almost any other. The weather, warmer than Croatia and the water, also warmer than Croatia, allow for a feeling of generous relaxation that feels unique to Hawaii. After a while, though, you begin to understand everything is quite crowded and unless you have meaningful relationships it can get tiresome
Long flights and big timezone differences. We usually still have ties to the US, so it makes it hard to communicate when you’re on different schedules.
If it’s only weather and cost of living, central and South America are easier to manage and many of us are familiar at least with Spanish and can get by with only a little effort. Croatian would be hard for me I think, but I can get around s America well enough (if I’m willing to damage my pride a littlesounding like a fool. )
Americans are lazy, and scared.
Americans do not understand the ease of movement in Europe.
They do not wish to learn about cultures other than their own. They certainly do not want to assimilate.
I agree with you, OP, if someone were an adventurous person, Croatia seems to be lovely.
And you really don't want a bunch of US ex-pats invading Croatia. They'd be screaming for a Walmart in a week.
Except that some of us (the Haole Americans you describe) are not lazy or afraid. We understand and have great appreciation for the ease of movement in the EU. We strive to learn about other cultures and speak other languages. We travel to places specifically to get away from Wal Mart culture.
But some of us can’t leave our elderly parents behind or rip our kids away from their best friends and schools and sports teams they love so much just so we can live the expat life.
So maybe try not to paint all of us with the same brush.
When I said "Americans" I meant people from the mainland, certainly not Kanaka.
And the Hawaiian diaspora, if given a choice, is coming home, and definitely not to Croatia.
You can’t understand Hawaii by looking at Reddit or watching YouTube and it’s not dangerous at all compared to any major city anywhere in the world. The biggest thing is, it’s not a white-centered culture unlike the rest of the US. It’s cosmopolitan. I just returned from a large, popular U.S. city and you see plenty of races there - only with their own kind. Here we blend all together.
>and you see plenty of races there - only with their own kind. Here we blend all together.
I wouldn't agree with that and I grew up in Hawaii lol
Very often people in Hawaii stick with their "own kind", both in terms of race and class. The idea that Hawaii is a "melting pot" is romanticized IMHO
white folks tend to hang out with white folks, East asians tend to hang out with East asians, private school kids tend to hang out with private school kids, etc
For real. I never had a haole friend until I moved to the mainland for college. And I went to a school known for haoles, so it's not like there wasn't opportunity. Lots of folks just...stick to their own kind
It’s interesting, I’ve worked in a local hospital for the past 25 years. All ethnicities at work, great teamwork, we all get along well, but at the end of the shift we all go home to our own lives and groups. Nobody ever hangs out together outside of work, except maybe just a few of us transplants on rare occasions.
I have Hawaiian neighbors, causally friendly but rarely if ever hand out together, many have large families that always keep them occupied.
Korean and Chinese on the block always seem to do thier own thing.
My wife is Filipino, and all her friends are Filipino. Out parties and friend groups consist primarily of mixed White/Filipino couples.
Thats just the way it is.
No American wants to move there unless; a) they want to work three jobs, live in a van and surf in their free time, or b) their millionaires. Americans vacation there because it’s a tropical destination without leaving the country.
This comparison is idiotic and pointless. Hawaii is a state and close to the mainland. Croatia is a European country far far away AND close to the Ukrainian and Russian War. It's not practical nor sensible to move there for an American.
Furthermore, the cultures are so different. Hawaii is on a chill vibe on "Hawaiian Time". It's diverse with lovely people and food. Croatia is beautiful but the culture is NOT as diverse and you have to learn another language. Something that is difficult for many American adults.
Just stay the fuck away from Hawaii.
Too many people. Too few jobs. Poorly paying jobs. Expensive housing, beaches are eroding too quickly, everything is way more expensive than on the mainland.
Education is third rate(unless you get into private schools). This state has no future. More Hawaiians live on the mainland than the state, which speaks volumes about what natives think about their future.
Americans are ruining the Hawaiian islands. Buying up all of the land, destroying the environment. There are families that own over 90% of certain islands there.
I understand American laws, I know what my rights are, I am already a citizen here, and almost everyone can understand me when I speak. I have studied (and forgotten) three other languages, but it’s nice to know I could go 3000 miles in any direction and still be understood. The cost of living may be lower in some places, but so are the wages, so you can’t really get “ahead” unless you have a remote/online job that pays a decent wage. We considered moving out of the country to find something similar to Hawaii, but there is great comfort in the known and familiar. While it’s very different in many ways from the mainland, those basic commonalities make it easier to acclimate and adjust that moving to an entirely new region.
Please no spam
I think the biggest consideration(s) have to be: How close it is to mainland America and language barrier. Hawaii is 6 hours to California and another 6 to reach the other side being the east coast. Flying to Europe is quite a hassle in comparison especially when it comes visas, declaring stuff, and everything involved with international travel. Let’s not forget time zones. Most Americans (like 95%) only speak English. Everyone in Hawaii speaks English fluently lol. Yeah most Europeans speak English, but there’s always a language disparity. We all instinctively want to speak our native language, absolutely nothing wrong with that. Without a doubt a place like Croatia seems amazing, but there’s also some personal reasons why Americans wouldn’t move to Croatia. Using myself as an example, I’m Asian. Everyone in Hawaii thinks and treats me like a local. Not all Americans who move to Hawaii are white, Hispanic, or black. Quite frankly there’s a good amount that are Asian and opt to stay as long as they can. In Croatia, it goes without saying, I’d stick out like a sore thumb. I also vastly prefer Asian cuisines over Western cuisines. I love Italian and Portuguese cuisine, but i don’t think Croatia is known for those cuisines, let alone Asian cuisine. Yeah the prices are insane, costs of living? BONKERS. But I never got this type of ease of living and being treated as an equal unlike when I Iived in mainland America or when I lived abroad in Europe for some time (study abroad). There’s also this huge fantasy of Hawaii with most Americans due to how “not America” it is while still being technically America (if you know what I mean). You live like a non American but still have the same liberties, rights, and laws that the USA has. People would rather just stick to what they know instinctively, and that’s just human nature. But yeah those are just a few reasons I can name top of my head
Number 1 reason. It's a US state we don't have to ask to move to Hawaii or get/apply for citizenship.
Im from San Francisco and the only place i really feel comfortable moving to is another neighboring city or hawaii. Its weird to grow up in a city with alot of people who look like you, share the culture and even visit a place with no one that looks like you. Ive gotten weird looks in rural Idaho, and rural California. We drive a tundra and was in utah. Some guy parked next to our truck, we came out of the hotel to grab something from the truck. Dude looks at us and parks somewhere else..shit like that has never happened in sf. We visit hawaii and people keep thinking my husband is local, they start speaking pidgin to him and giving us the local resturant discount. I would love to move to hawaii. It feels like home culture wise, cost of living is about the same and yall actually have summers. We had like 5 days of 70+ weather this summer, now its back in the 60s.
I totally agree, I grew up with mainly White, Mexicans and Filipinos but I’m eastern Asian. Still a different ballgame since the Filipinos I grew up with RESENTED Asian culture (I’m not kidding here). Lot of the Filipinas talked shit about Asian guys to non Filipinos about how Asian guys are lame, weak, and really funny looking. It was pretty anti Asian in that regard if I’m being honest. Guys didn’t give a shit and I never had a problem with them to be honest but with Filipinos? Nah they always talked shit about each other and being Asian is dumb. They always claimed islanders are different than Asians. Idk man 🤷🏻♂️ When I moved down to LA for a brief moment, that was the only time I felt like I wasn’t always looked at for going to the grocery store lol.
That last comment is how some treat New Orleans, too
> Most Americans (like 95%) only speak English. just fyi, nearly 25% of americans speak more than two languages at home
Entirely depends on which state or part of the country. California, New York, Florida? Oh yeah 100% so many people speak two languages. But the rest of the country? Idk man lol
From a cultural perspective, Hawaii is heavily romanticized in movies and other forms. Croatia, while admittedly beautiful, is not as significantly present in the American psyche. From a safety perspective, I'm physically located in my own country of citizenship, where presumably, there are laws and public systems built to serve me. Also, I'm not 818 miles from an active war. From a legal perspective, Croatian land ownership is complicated and open to interpretation. I don't have decades to fight out in court on the other side of the planet. Is croatia an amazing place people should consider? For sure! Is it in the same league as Hawaii? No, if it was, single family homes would also be going for an average 1million USD.
"Croatian land ownership is complicated" true. Lot's of complications bc of the war (1990s), communistic land stealing and bad burocracy. but buying a flat or house is 99% safe when buying from known real estate firms who first checks it. In Hawaii you cannot even buy a house in some parts if you don't have some gene seed, extreme HOA, weird lease system, sharing expenses of streets with communities on the same parcel... "Also, I'm not 818 miles from an active war." I mean, 1000 miles is a lot and has nothing to do with Croatia for now. "Is it in the same league as Hawaii?" IMFAO Croatia is better. If you look at Hawaii as a country which is half the size of Croatia, you should also take into consideration half of Croatia. Which offers much more. Plitvica Lakes, Krk, Split, Rijeka, Opatija, 78 bigger islands (vs 128 Hawaii of which are many private). Mixed with a cultural heritage you won't find that easy in the world in such a small place (10 Unesco places vs 1 in Hawaii) * Hawaii has one entry in the UNESCO Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity. This entry is for the "Hula," vs 17 from Croatia. [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/pmoud5/plitvice\_lakes\_croatia/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/pmoud5/plitvice_lakes_croatia/) [https://www.klook.com/en-IN/activity/109111-plitvice-lakes-guided-day-tour-entry-ticket-split/](https://www.klook.com/en-IN/activity/109111-plitvice-lakes-guided-day-tour-entry-ticket-split/) [https://www.mare-vrbnik.com/de/blog/tagesausflug-insel-krk](https://www.mare-vrbnik.com/de/blog/tagesausflug-insel-krk) [https://visitrijeka.hr/trsat/](https://visitrijeka.hr/trsat/) "single family home" what do you consider as a single family home? Croatians build big. [https://www.njuskalo.hr/prodaja-kuca/dubrovnik#google\_vignette](https://www.njuskalo.hr/prodaja-kuca/dubrovnik#google_vignette) [https://www.njuskalo.hr/nekretnine/dubrovnik-jedinstvena-kamena-kuca-prvi-red-mora-oglas-40950328](https://www.njuskalo.hr/nekretnine/dubrovnik-jedinstvena-kamena-kuca-prvi-red-mora-oglas-40950328) Hawaii is extremely overpriced, that is the point. Imports, high demand make the houses costly. Croatia as an American state would cost crazy levels - but already costs with an average of 600.000€ a lot (which is over Germany level)
Dude what the fuck does a "unesco world heritage site" have to do with anything? "So you don't get bored" what so you can drive ALL over the country of Croatia and look at the same 10 sites that someone deemed important? THATS your metric for living somewhere is a unesco world heritage site. You place entirely too much stock in artificial titles of things. I bet you go CRAZY for subpar Michelin star restaurants too just because some bozo decided it was good.
That house is not very modern & it is not cheap either. Looks old and costs $2,000,000 so the value isn’t there IMO
The point here is Hawaii isn’t a country, it’s a part of the United States. Your information is strange 128 Hawaiian islands? Many of them are private? What are you talking about?
Comparing Hawaii to Croatia is like comparing a Maserati to a nice Honda. I am saying this as an East European who have been to both places multiple times.
Agree. Where is the tropical snorkeling in Croatia?
Yes!!! It’s completely two different living experiences.
Agree to disagree. Plitvica Lakes alone is one the most beautiful places on earth. The topic was more about living there. Croatia has literally ten times more UNESCO places so you don't get bored. Of course Hawaii has nice(r) weather, mostly nicer beaches, but that is it. Also for the same money in Croatia you could get a 6 stars hotel with a private driver driving you to all nice places. really not comparable in the quality of service.
Have you been to Hawaii and where?
You seem to only be focused on the appearance and nature of the islands for comparison. There are more aspects to choosing a place to live than what it looks like.
The ability to stay a US citizen and live somewhere tropical. The weather... the food as a byproduct of the weather. Easy travel to the mainland if you have family there. Hawai`i also has Aloha ʻĀina. I don't know if it is the active land or what, but you FEEL something there. It pulls you in. It is like a love you have never felt, and once you feel it, you don't ever want to be without it. ❤️
>Hawaiʻi also has Aloha ʻĀina As a hawaiian, please stfu. ʻĀloha ʻāina isn’t exclusive to Hawa’ii, but essentially is a thing in a lot cultures around the world, if not all. Im tired of haoles misinterpreting & disrespecting ʻOlelo Hawaiʻi with your own twist, without fully understanding some of the things we say. Pretty sure others would agree with me here.
It's really a compliment to your culture in the intended context. The love that is there for Hawaiian culture, the islands, the history, the spirituality, nature, natural resources... yes, other places have a degree of these, but what you have is definitely unique to Hawai'i. You can't have a collective feel something so deeply, and it not permeate to people not of the culture. It's a beautiful thing - so much pride and passion! I don't think there is anywhere else that has it because, as you implied, it is multifaceted and you really have to be of the culture to fully understand it. That doesn't mean that I am not aware of it. It doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to me. I do not have to be a botanist to see the beauty in plants. Nor do I need to be Hawaiian to appreciate the beauty of Hawai i and Hawaiian culture. I'm not claiming to understand nuances or what it means to you. It exists. That is what I am saying. And I felt it because it exists. I couldn't describe in other words because only those words refer to what you have going on there. Your reaction is even part of it.
What a terrific and respectful response 🥰
Check comment history, they give you a picture. This guy is just pissed at most things and dedicates his life to graffiti and defacing shared spaces, not really anyone who grasps a true love of any land right now.
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😂 swing and a miss, champ
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As an indigenous person, thanks for speaking out against appropriated bs. People want to pretend indigenous culture means something to them while completely disrespecting the people who belong to that culture when moving onto their land and using up resources. There is zero self awareness in their entitlement.
You seem pretty entitled and lack that self-awareness you're bragging about when you speak for all indigenous peoples. You Kanaka? Na, didn't think so.
it is nice but it is also very expensive and many people have daily struggle to survive. Plus it is not that safe (compared to US maybe but 4 times more violent crimes then in Croatia)
I understand what you are saying. But... I never worry about crime. I've never been attacked by anyone. I think the greater risks of violent crime are: getting drunk, going where drunks go, and being an asshole. I go hike. I nap on empty beaches. I eat poke at the farmer's markets and say nice things to people. How in the world would I attract violence? I was visiting BI and on a public beach, and someone local started talking to me and said there was nothing at this beach for me... legally, could I be there? Yes. But it was adjacent to a very traditional Hawaiian fishing villiage and they didn't want me there. I didn't get offended, I didn't defend myself. I apologized. I thanked them for the little bit of time I got. There is plenty of coastline on the BI. I say this because respect and compassion is fundamental. Self respect, respect for others, respect for Hawai'i, etc. You will not attract violence if you do this.
Yeah that lolo at Miloli’i Beach Park has been an absolute pain in the ass. She’s squatting and in violation herself. Prior to her we’ve had few bad interactions with the villagers. Mainly the occasional stink eye and that’s usually someone visiting uncle or aunty from outside the village! The beach you’re referring to is open to all, just be very respectful as you traverse other’s property enroute.
I eat and I poke. But I don't eat poke.
Eh, that violent crime stat is misleading. The number of violent crime incidents may be higher in Hawaii, but the stat misses context. The vast majority (>75%) of those violent crimes were not random, ie the victims knew the perpetrators. If you don’t go to the chicken fights and pay your gambling debts, you have virtually zero chance of being violently assaulted.
We’re allowed to work in Hawaii.
Sounds like you’ll love living in Croatia.
You’re talking about things that look good on paper, but don’t consider soft things like social life. Americans have way easier to blend in and build a social network in Hawaii than in Europe.
More like 3 times. But both are very low to begin with, going from 0.8 per 100,000 in Croatia (down 100% from 2021 to 2022) to 2.5 per 100,000 in Hawaii. So the change (although triple) is starting from really low numbers. I've spent time in both, Croatia is very clean and nice for sure. A couple things that would be hard to live in Croatia for me: incredibly homogenous population, a lot of the popular areas feel more like Disneyland than an immersive cultural hub (e.g. Dubrovnik), and it wasn't too long ago that the area was in a major war (Bosnia's really okay with Croatia basically land-locking it? Was funny seeing the 7 km of Bosnian coast) But Croatia is wonderful and access to the EU is huge. Hawaii has a lot more grit (some that I loved) and is really isolated, expensive to travel from.
I'd rather go the Croatia route but citizenship makes it very difficult. Hawaii was somewhere I could move without citizenship barriers. I'd much rather be in Europe.
Maybe the OP can help you figure that out. :)
I've looked into it a lot. My mom is able to get German citizenship by descent but I'm too far removed. Always looking for other ways to get there and move my kids.
The violent crime rate on Kauai is 1/3 the national average. It is extremely safe. Other islands, I don't know, but that is one thing I love about living on Kauai.
I appreciate your perspective but your arguments are a bit off. The climate of Hawaii is vastly different from that of Croatia. There are, in small pockets, similarities. And while Hawaii has several different climates, the islands for the most part are all very tropical and temperate. Rain is warm. The water is, on average, 10-20 degrees warmer than the Croatian Mediterranean waters year round. The weather in Croatia can be brutally extreme, snowing in Slavonia during the winter and be well over 100 degrees in the summer. I’ve lived in both Honolulu and Hvar. Cost of living, give me Croatia. But quality of life, I’ve never been anywhere better than Hawaii, bruddah.
I think the last time I closed my window in Honolulu was in April, and that was because I was leaving for two weeks.
Something tells me you haven’t been to Hawaii…
Hawaii is great and appeals to everyone around the world. I guarantee you Hawaii is safer as long as you stay off the difficult areas. For example, Waianae is not a place for tourists to be roaming around. Redditors doesnt mean anything. Finally, my last consideration to love Hawaii is that it is America without the burdens of America. We don't have border issues or cross cultural gang violence here like the states. To me this is the best state I have lived in. I have lived in 9 states. You can have attachment to Croatia and don't take offense but I never even think about Europe, much less Croatia.
lol. When I moved here 18 years ago I was told to stay out of Waianae. 4 kids later, my fiancé was born and raised there. I agree there, probably shouldn’t go unless you have reasons to. Similarly the same goes to certain parts of Waikiki and other sketchy areas. Now Hawaii is so overpriced with everything. But I do feel it’s safer here than many other states in the mainland. Lately there has been some bad crime. I’ve noticed it’s usually amongst people who know each other or in a fit of rage like on the road or drunken silliness. Ive been here so long now that I forget how beautiful the scenery and beaches are. I gotta remind myself that I’m living in a paradise that people only wish to be in. As pricey as it is, it is home.
Hawaii doesn't have gangs?
Hawaii doesn't have gangs?
Where do you get that? We dont have MS-13 or Mexican cartels out here. I said international.
Where do you get international? 👀 where do you get that. Go read your post that word is not there.
cross cultural gang violence.
You just make stuff up bye.
In 2022, homicide rate for Croatia was **0.8 cases per 100,000 population**. In Hawaii it 2.5, so 4x more. I think that is the answer for my question: Americans just don't think about Europe. I have met many Americans who moved to Germany from L.A. and they are more than happy to live here. As one of them said: as an American you just don't get how many anxieties originate from the US life. Like the fear of getting very ill, jobless, getting shot.
If you have a connection to Croatia, it may be good for you. But Croatia is on not even on our radars. For better or worse America is my home. I feel just fine where I am right now.
yeah that is totally fine. The US's life quality literally differs per street or district, yet alone state. You can have decent job and a house and live 10x better than the average Croatian.
Dude do you know how hard it is for an American to move to Europe, visa-wise?
I would love to move to Europe for these reasons, but I would not qualify for citizenship anywhere, so it’s a totally moot point.
>We don't have border issues or cross cultural gang violence here like the states. What does this even mean lol As if immigrants aren't moving to Hawaii? Also there are cultural gangs in Hawaii?
Compare this to being a border town like Texas man. We don't have caravans of people crossing to USA. To come to Hawaii you need a boat or an airplane. To do that with a coyote is probably the stupidest riskiest idea and I doubt anyone is doing it. The violence in Hawaii is Hawaii's own. If you experience a border state, there is gang violence fighting for control. MS-13 from El Salvador, cartel lackeys. My dad works in a court and these guys are always into something new. For example one dude from MS-13 was selling his own sister to prostitution. In Hawaii, most of the crime is property crime.
Croatian Tourism Board working overtime this weekend I see
I am just looking at the options I know exist.
If you are so high on Croatia, then why in your previous posting were you inquiring about a move to Hawai’i, and trying to rationalize it to everyone?
I already live n both Germany and Croatia, Hawaii seems like something new. but the typicall american issues and high prices put me off
It’s a long trip from Europe to Hawai’i as well. I’ve been several times and it can take over 24 hrs. If you just want some local that is Tropical or semi tropical, check out FL, Bahamas, Virgin Islands or Central America. Most are cheaper than Hawai’i and more accessible to Europe.
Deciding where you want to live is very subjective, it is by no means quantitative or even predictable. Only a vanishingly small number of US citizens aspire to live in Hawaii, much less relocate from the continental US to Hawaii; of those that _do_ relocate, many of them don't stay for more than a year or two. It's not for everybody, and most people know that without asking.
really? bc it is romantized by movies very much.
Last I checked movies movies are not necessarily representative of reality.
Regardless of what you hear around elections, Americans don’t like to move to other countries as a whole. They like the ease of not needing a visa or passport and not learning a new language.
yeah, kind of lazy.
People in the US often talk about Hawaii when they are still in the fantasy stage of relocating. Once you're being realistic, Croatia would still be way down the list for a lot of us. Much closer to the US, you have Puerto Rico, you have Mexico, places where you have varying weather and infrastructure problems but every place has those. And the US has more of a relationship. Many of us also have family connections somewhere like Puerto Rico. If you ever want to see your family members in the mainland US, it is much easier for them to travel in the Caribbean or South America, or for you to go back there. And if I'm in Chicago or someplace visiting family there and hear that my house if Puerto Rico is flooded, I can fly down at the drop of a hat.
true, those places are similar too reg weather, lifestyle.
This is a really interesting thread. Cost of living - yes, Croatia wins that. But you’re forgetting that Americans only have freedom of movement (for where we live and work) within our 50 states + Puerto Rico + US territories. We can’t just move to Croatia like a resident of the EU can. It’s a huge pain in the ass from an administrative standpoint (and as far as I’m aware, no “golden visa” exists like Portugal, for example, so we can’t just buy our way in at a reasonable amount like US$ 500K). In addition to the citizenship issue, you have to separate the “US vs EU” stuff. Health care, education, etc — all are objectively more democratized in the EU. But Hawai’i and Croatia…they are two completely different places: geography, climate, language, culture, cuisine, ethnicity, etc. The only real similarity is people go there on summer holiday. Having spent nearly 3 weeks in Croatia a couple years back and returning from 10 days in Hawaii this week, I can safely say they are both wonderful places. Hawaii is stupid expansive though. I joke with my wife that every interaction there is a hundred bucks. They also have more high end resort properties…like 10:1 ratio. More sandy beaches and much warmer water than the Adriatic. The people are delightful and warm…this is the Aloha vibe. There are many things I loved about Croatia, too. History/Architecture were fascinating, people were inviting, European style beach clubs are awesome, delicious local olive oils, interesting wines, fabulous truffles in Istria, etc. It was also cool to see the newer infrastructure (post recent war).
The weather. It's always summer in Hawaii.
Brah it’s cold in Volcano Village like all the time.
I find it more appealing that the weather is not extreme (not too hot not to cold). Summers everywhere get extremely hot at least a couple of days, while Hawaii seems stable in this regard.
I think it would be hard to find such similarly mild weather in Croatia or other parts of the world, which I think is the big attraction for a lot of people.
yeah that is true and biggest reason to move/visit there. Weather + tropical vegetation Especially for older people favorable. In Croatia the summers are too hot, in the Winter it is around 40-60 degree fahrenheit
The Honolulu temperature is 70-80F year round. The ocean is warm year round. It's like a never ending vacation.
Some people fall in love with it when they visit. If you fall in love with a place, you find a way to live there. All places have beautiful things about them, but different people are different, and like different things. Hawaii has a unique culture, history, and personally I love it here. I moved here specifically because of the even temperatures but also the culture, the ocean, the people, etc. I don't think Hawaii is right for you, it's understandable that you don't see the appeal, but I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to compare Hawaii to elsewhere. Either it appeals to you, or it doesn't, and it's clear that it doesn't. Different people like different things. Based on the comments you've made, I don't think you'd like it here anyway, culturally I think you'd find yourself at odds locals and long term residents. Not saying that as an insult, just an observation. I genuinely think your energy would be better spent researching a place that appeals to you more. Btw, crime isn't particularly high here (especially violent crime), at least compared to many parts of the US. I can't speak to other countries.
People have to suffer hard to make a living in Hawaii, invest a lot of savings into some basic housing. I find Hawaii very appealing, but am afraid generally of the US crime wise. As someone who has a house on the sea in Croatia and wanted to checkout something new I just ask my self why not choose Croatia first if you are an average American. I am currently living in Munich and even consider moving "back", despite the much worse pay. It was a little bit disappointing realising that Hawaii has Ghettos too and that you are not really safe at night everywhere (which you basically are in Croatia)
Why is Hawaii supposed to be the right choice for everyone though? I think you missed my point entirely. There is no such thing as a perfect place that is right for everyone, or even most. Hawaii is part of the US, moving to another country is a way bigger hassle than moving to another state within the same country. I would never consider moving to Croatia personally, and I'd wager most Americans feel the same. Even ignoring all other reasons, most people in the US don't want to move to another country. Heck, a lot of people don't even have an interest in traveling to other countries, the idea of moving to one is nowhere on their radar. Places don't have to be "perfect" to be someone's top choice of where they want to live. You might as well ask why people get married to partners that aren't super models or something. Every place has "flaws" just like every person does. Btw, have you even been here? Because if not, you're basically just making an idea of what Hawaii is like in your head.
yes sure. But IMO my thinking is just: I want to live somewhere where people do vacation. Bc working 350 days a year and then going to those places for 2 weeks is not something that is worth working for. I enjoy walking, exercising, socializing the most which you cannot really do in Germany for 6 months when it's too cold for me to enjoy. Hawaii is great, but it is not that great for how much it costs. It is like: do you want Pizza or a Burger but the Pizza is 3x cheaper. It is a fact that most people in Hawaii really hassle with housings and struggle to make a living, which even more makes me ask: why then Hawaii ? Why not New Zealand, Croatia, Spain, Italy?
Multiple people have told you the answer to the question you keep repeating. Weather/climate, culture, food, proximity/language, etc. Just because those things aren't important enough for you to consider the negatives to living in Hawaii worth it, doesn't mean others agree with your opinion/preference. Hawaii is not for you and that's fine, maybe move on instead of dwelling on it.
Plus, you’d actually have to get a visa to live and work in Croatia, which you don’t have to do in Hawaii. It’s a weird comparison OP keeps making between the 2. And it’s the same for any other foreign countries, you’d still need to get a work visa, which is varying degrees of hard. Moving to another state for an American is just that, no need for visas and such.
Having been to New Zealand and Italy, NZ is a hard no. It's not cheap, water is not warm, and it's not nearly as beautiful. Italy is somewhere I would consider moving however, Hawaii still appeals to me more for its weather, warm ocean, culture, food and proximity to US.
You don't get 2 weeks vacation in the USA You get jack shit. 100 gonna reply and say maybe they do. Fast food , warehouse, etc.. probably won't get 2 weeks paid vacation a year. SOURCE live in Texas get jack shit vacation. Been here 40 years my whole life.
Because we legally cant live in those places without a massive amount of money and years spent dealing with immigration.
Most folks in the US never consider moving to a foreign Country. The main reason they come to Hawaii is that’s it’s(like it or not) still part of the US. No changes in citizenship, visas, green cards etc…required!
Hawaii is at least 5 leagues above Croatia in multiple aspects. Both are great destinations. But Croatia is the complete opposite of a remote Island life in the middle of the pacific
I’m seeing a lot of talk from OP about how “violent” the US is. Seems OP has never visited… most places are safe. As someone with an EU and US passport & citizenship, they’re roughly equal. East Germany doesn’t have the best rep, for example. It seems there is too much media influence in this thread…. Come visit and see for yourself, then make a judgment.
I too enjoy comparing apple-bananas to Lychee's.
This was my favorite comment 😍
Because I’ve never heard and never will hear someone say: “I’m going on my honeymoon to either Croatia or Hawaii” or “I’m thinking about moving to either Croatia or Hawaii”. Sorry to not jump on your Croatia train. Also, the crime here is low compared to the mainland. We’re talking fists vs guns, although gun crimes have increased over the years.
My friends from Oregon did go to Croatia for their honeymoon, lol. It looked amazing. I haven't left HI in almost 20 years, lol.
Lol, the irony!
1. Language/Culture Barrier 2. Citizenship/Visa Concerns Those are very large issues to just glaze over when moving anywhere, and they would inhibit most people.
And European languages sound ridiculous. GERMAN SOUNDS LIke YOU ALWAYS ARE TRYING TO CLEAR YOUR THROAT AND SPIT.😅 I don't want to learn that.
I laughed at that. And they downvoted you. Some peoples children…..
Thanks 😀
So OP, I’ve read through this thread. Do you work for the Croatian ministry of tourism? Or in real estate or something? I’ve never seen someone talk about another place while shitting on the place that the sub is about before. You appear to be a Croatia evangelizer in a way that seems… weird? How about Portugal, Spain, Arizona, the Florida Keys, or many other Mediterranean places where people decide to retire? Central/South America, Asia, lots of wonderful places in the world to compete with Croatia. Genuine question, appreciate that like Hawaii and so many other places in the world, Croatia is a beautiful country and a place that would be wonderful to call home at many stages of life.
You lost me at dangerous place to live.
Not wanting to deal with a new income tax system plus distance would be my main concerns.
Are you really asking why citizens of a country don’t up and move to a foreign country just because it satisfies your bizarre hypotheticals? Have you ever heard the words citizenship, visa, native language?
I would probably never move to Hawaii, but my husband and I just went to the Big Island for our honeymoon and if I had set my sights on moving there, I doubt any other place would even compare. He agrees. You have to see it to believe it. Hawaii is not just the beach.
Big Island is the best. I’ve been to all except Molokai and I dream of living up country
With the costs being what they are on Maui, Oahu, etc, I’m surprised Molokai hasn’t blown up over the last few years. Their reputation for being unfriendly to tourists has paid off IMO. I live in CA and hear of people going to Hawaii all the time- not one has ever gone to Molokai, despite there being time shares there.
I respect that and honestly, I felt a little weird on Lanai. The locals were all super friendly but the fact that everyone is beholden to Ellison feels creepy. I'm leaving Molokai to the locals.
LOL look at all of us getting downvoted.
THE SURF BRAH I never seen WSL pull up in Croatia.
Because immigrating to Europe is extremely challenging lol. I'm guessing you're quite young? And don't remember a pre EU world.
Hawaii is America. There are jobs that pay well, and everyone speaks english. You can't just go to Croatia as an american and expect to get a well-paying job there. Many people also like American culture, becahse it us something they grew up with, so they prefer to stay within their comfort zone.
Hawaii would probably disagree with the take that it’s America. Very different vibes out here compared to mainland. But ya, you will get around well with English.
Just a very vocal minority has an issue with that fact. What they’re saying is absolutely correct, same language, same religions/churches, same currency, no visa needed etc…Just like moving to any other state in America except for some increased prices and cultural differences.
Kind of ridiculous to compare Croatia to Hawaii. They are totally different. If someone wants a Hawaii-like location, Croatia isn’t an alternative.
Can I get a visa?
Did some light reading on the embassy website. There's a nomad worker visa requires £2850 monthly income. For expats there's verbage of having "the means" to stay but doesn't outline the amount. For a vacation visa it looks like $80-100/day is required.
**A visa is not required for U.S. passport holders for temporary tourist and business trips up to 90 days** (during a six-month period, starting from the day of the first entry). Time spent in any of the Schengen countries counts towards the total 90 days in Schengen
That’s just as a tourist, you’re asking why don’t Americans want to move to Croatia instead of Hawaii.
Sure, but you’re suggesting people move to Croatia, which means it would be their sole and permanent residence and where they would need to find work to support themselves. How would an American go about that?
Well...we cant even read your links, so that's part of it. 😉
The biggest issue which you already raised is “being American“. That being said, if I was younger and knew then what I knew now, I would definitely move out of the country for both the experience and the opportunity. However, when you get older and are on the downhill side of life, meaning nearing retirement, moving out of the country to somewhere else is much more difficult. The other issues are things like insurance, family, etc.
I think you are trying to use facts and figures to understand what is essentially an emotional or spiritual thing. Read up about Hawaiian culture and the concept of mana. Many people feel drawn to the islands in a special way, on a level that doesn’t factor into your lists of world heritage sites or crime stats.
There’s a lot of hoops to jump through when moving to Europe especially if you still need to work. I would love to move to Cyprus but it’s too hard to legally immigrate there and earn a livable wage.
Interesting that you think Americans can just snap their fingers and magically choose to live in a European country without consideration of visa and residency requirements, employment, language barrier, etc. And I have lived abroad before, so that's part of my frame of reference. Frankly, this is a naive question.
If you are an American you can work (for most US large companies) remotely in Hawaii without an issue. You cannot do the same in a foreign country.
Is this a real question? Americans consider moving to Hawaii and not Croatian because they’re American citizens, not Croatians. Moving to another country you have citizenship is complicated.
Americans can legally work in Hawaii. Getting legal residence or a work permit in the EU is a difficult road. I think more Americans would consider moving to Europe if we could, but we cannot.
One is literally a US state. The other is another country. You’re asking why it’s easier for an Americans to move within their own country than it is to immigrate to a different one?
It has been embedded in America’s head for years as a US state that is a literal paradise. So it’s comfortable in the fact that it’s considered to be a part of America, yet it’s exotic enough to be completely unlike anything the mainland can offer. There is a definite learning curve in terms of culture, but most people don’t find that out until they move here.
It’s a state , the only difficulty is logistics and money , but you have the same problems in Croatia plus it’s a different country so you have all new problems
OP, let me recap for you: why hawaii vs Croatia for American? visa issue, Job opportunities(it’s fewer high income jobs here, but at least you don’t need visa to find a job) , language(everyone speaks English), inclusivity/social life( you can correct me if I am wrong but based on Google, Croatian has 92% Croat. Hawaii is more diverse). Weather (warm not hot, no winter), close to mainland (majority of Americans have a family in mainland, so convenient around Europe is not really a selling point), the list goes on. COL is insanely high indeed but it is just one aspect when it comes to choosing your permanent residency. That’s why there are still many people going to Bay Area, New York, etc.
Maybe it’s me, but how is this a question? Not everyone can live everywhere due to passport issues? Is this a question for the wildly wealthy who don’t care about such issues? I don’t understand this.
“Hawaii, dangerous to live” - what? Hawaii is one of the safest places I’ve ever lived. “Croatia, rather arid climate and hotter” - Hawaiian has an ideal climate not too hot in the summer and absolutely perfect in the winter. I’m sure Croatia is a fantastic place but Hawaii is known as a tropical paradise for a reason
You’re literally comparing the crown jewel of vacation paradises in the world (Hawaii), to an average vacation spot (Croatia) Hawaii is unusual in that it has a mild tropical climate year-round (25C to 30C), and free of any natural disasters (heatwave, arctic blast, hurricanes, typhoons, earthquakes etc). None of the other popular destinations (such as Phuket, Bali, Florida, Cancun or any European destinations). Heck there are basically no bugs/mosquitoes in Hawaii. Croatia is nice for tourists but further south in Montenegro and Albania…yikes (from my personal experience as an American)
Let's talk about the people. Hawaiians are a pretty small club, yet they developed a distinct cuisine, fashion, sport, dance, and language that unlike anything else on earth. And it's all still practiced today. If you move here, you'll never be one of them, but you'll always feel welcome. (If you think that Hawaiians are rude, it's usually not them that's the problem.) In fact being kind is actually the law. We don't enforce that law, but it sends a message of the behavior we expect from others. As far as crime, I don't worry. I walk through an area populated with homeless every day on the way to work, and live in a part of town called the Meth Triangle. And I've never been bothered. I'm far more concerned that my health insurance isn't going to cover something that could kill me than some random stranger. I've lived in 22 cities in 4 countries on 3 continents. They all had their strengths (well, maybe not Oklahoma.) But no place feels like home the way Hawai'i does.
IOW: Aloha is real. I'm a Californian and don't have the means to move to Hawai'i, especially without displacing someone who was born there, but I've adopted Aloha as my athiest's religion.
As someone who eventually would like to retire in hawaii. We enjoy it because we are based out of Oregon and it's under 6 hours. Croatia is way further. Being asian, I fit in like a glove in hawaii. If there's a family emergency, I can be there within a day, if not same day. Food is spot on for us over European food. Not to say one is better but more comfort to someone like me. Crime is bad due to lots of lower income family, I've been there plenty of times and feel totally safe, much safer than my hometown with all the homeless here
Lots of Americans are less comfortable considering leaving the country....Hawaii is their only option if they want to stay American
From the Safety perspective. As an American, Hawaii is extreme safer than most other places. Especially major cities.
30000+ people were killed in war there during the 90s
Hawaii is in the US that’s why.
(throwaway account) this is so funny, i’m a 2nd generation american that spent every summer with my extended croatian family back in croatia, and i now live in hawaii. i’ll edit my comment with more details in a few hours, running some errands now. short answer is: you probably haven’t spent extended periods of time in both countries, and you’re not an american, so you don’t understand our perspective. You’re totally right about some things though! i’ll explain more later 🙂
Local in Hawaii. Crime? It’s a pretty safe place. Even Honolulu is decently chill. There are maybe 2 or 3 neighborhoods not to go to at night, but still would during the day. The weather is also unbeatable. The community here is amazing, and the surf is unbeatable.
Having travelled to both places I can say for a short while Hawaii would be an exotic vacation in a part of the world that is unlike almost any other. The weather, warmer than Croatia and the water, also warmer than Croatia, allow for a feeling of generous relaxation that feels unique to Hawaii. After a while, though, you begin to understand everything is quite crowded and unless you have meaningful relationships it can get tiresome
Long flights and big timezone differences. We usually still have ties to the US, so it makes it hard to communicate when you’re on different schedules. If it’s only weather and cost of living, central and South America are easier to manage and many of us are familiar at least with Spanish and can get by with only a little effort. Croatian would be hard for me I think, but I can get around s America well enough (if I’m willing to damage my pride a littlesounding like a fool. )
Americans are lazy, and scared. Americans do not understand the ease of movement in Europe. They do not wish to learn about cultures other than their own. They certainly do not want to assimilate. I agree with you, OP, if someone were an adventurous person, Croatia seems to be lovely. And you really don't want a bunch of US ex-pats invading Croatia. They'd be screaming for a Walmart in a week.
Except that some of us (the Haole Americans you describe) are not lazy or afraid. We understand and have great appreciation for the ease of movement in the EU. We strive to learn about other cultures and speak other languages. We travel to places specifically to get away from Wal Mart culture. But some of us can’t leave our elderly parents behind or rip our kids away from their best friends and schools and sports teams they love so much just so we can live the expat life. So maybe try not to paint all of us with the same brush.
Everything you said but even more so with Local/Hawaiians. Good luck with getting anyone from here to move out of the Country.
When I said "Americans" I meant people from the mainland, certainly not Kanaka. And the Hawaiian diaspora, if given a choice, is coming home, and definitely not to Croatia.
You can’t understand Hawaii by looking at Reddit or watching YouTube and it’s not dangerous at all compared to any major city anywhere in the world. The biggest thing is, it’s not a white-centered culture unlike the rest of the US. It’s cosmopolitan. I just returned from a large, popular U.S. city and you see plenty of races there - only with their own kind. Here we blend all together.
>and you see plenty of races there - only with their own kind. Here we blend all together. I wouldn't agree with that and I grew up in Hawaii lol Very often people in Hawaii stick with their "own kind", both in terms of race and class. The idea that Hawaii is a "melting pot" is romanticized IMHO white folks tend to hang out with white folks, East asians tend to hang out with East asians, private school kids tend to hang out with private school kids, etc
That’s what I was thinking when I seen that statement. Hawai’i is more like a bunch of side dishes than a melting pot!
For real. I never had a haole friend until I moved to the mainland for college. And I went to a school known for haoles, so it's not like there wasn't opportunity. Lots of folks just...stick to their own kind
It’s interesting, I’ve worked in a local hospital for the past 25 years. All ethnicities at work, great teamwork, we all get along well, but at the end of the shift we all go home to our own lives and groups. Nobody ever hangs out together outside of work, except maybe just a few of us transplants on rare occasions. I have Hawaiian neighbors, causally friendly but rarely if ever hand out together, many have large families that always keep them occupied. Korean and Chinese on the block always seem to do thier own thing. My wife is Filipino, and all her friends are Filipino. Out parties and friend groups consist primarily of mixed White/Filipino couples. Thats just the way it is.
No American wants to move there unless; a) they want to work three jobs, live in a van and surf in their free time, or b) their millionaires. Americans vacation there because it’s a tropical destination without leaving the country.
We don’t want you here
People in the US don’t give a shit about Croatia
This comparison is idiotic and pointless. Hawaii is a state and close to the mainland. Croatia is a European country far far away AND close to the Ukrainian and Russian War. It's not practical nor sensible to move there for an American. Furthermore, the cultures are so different. Hawaii is on a chill vibe on "Hawaiian Time". It's diverse with lovely people and food. Croatia is beautiful but the culture is NOT as diverse and you have to learn another language. Something that is difficult for many American adults.
Just stay the fuck away from Hawaii. Too many people. Too few jobs. Poorly paying jobs. Expensive housing, beaches are eroding too quickly, everything is way more expensive than on the mainland. Education is third rate(unless you get into private schools). This state has no future. More Hawaiians live on the mainland than the state, which speaks volumes about what natives think about their future.
Oh Great. More rich colonizers coming to our beautiful ancestral homeland to gentrify it and misplace us. Stay out!.
Americans are ruining the Hawaiian islands. Buying up all of the land, destroying the environment. There are families that own over 90% of certain islands there.
How is the visa situation for Americans?
I’ve been to both. I will take Hawaii every time (and I’m no stranger to Europe, meine Eltern kommen aus Berlin)
I understand American laws, I know what my rights are, I am already a citizen here, and almost everyone can understand me when I speak. I have studied (and forgotten) three other languages, but it’s nice to know I could go 3000 miles in any direction and still be understood. The cost of living may be lower in some places, but so are the wages, so you can’t really get “ahead” unless you have a remote/online job that pays a decent wage. We considered moving out of the country to find something similar to Hawaii, but there is great comfort in the known and familiar. While it’s very different in many ways from the mainland, those basic commonalities make it easier to acclimate and adjust that moving to an entirely new region.
Just stay where you are. Locals no need to justify living here for some haoles.