The reveal that Paul Dano was a Sotheby's agent who was obsessed with knowing how two software engineers funded a boutique townhouse combining two historical brownstones and cut through all the NYC red tape to install a pool sent me. If my neighbors pulled that off, that'd be my roman empire too.
She said she did it out of jealously, so I don't think she actually finds him attractive. She just said that to manipulate John because she thinks jealously is a good thing.
I kinda wondered about whether he is a creepy villian. There's a prolonged gun fight next door to him and he doesn't call the cops. Then swings by the next day to see if anyone is alive. If they're dead then there's potential for him to sell the house so he doesn't call the cops.
very meta. every show should do this. Like a Friends remake needs some regulars in the coffee shop miffed about the group always getting the best sitting area. And have a neighbor in a smaller apartment trying to figure out how they can afford to live in the building
I thought that John noticing the toilet seat up, he would infer that the person who planted the C4 was a man, therefore was going to Jane to let her know the agency was targeting him. I didn't know he went to meet with her because he thought she was the culprit. Did that seem odd to anyone else?
Also super cool finding out that is Donald Glover's actual mom in the role.
Yeah I thought it was a call back to that episode too where she mentioned that, except it was her "sign" to let John know since she didn't *really* want to kill him.
Guess that wasn't it though haha.
I personally thought this was the weakest episode of the series. Them being pitted against each other was lazy.
There were soo many hints that they wouldn’t kill each other. Hell John outright says it in one of the episodes, think it was when they kidnapped Ron Perlman
Nonetheless great series. Little weak ending.
Same re: Glover's mom. Immediately checked when I saw her because she seemed like a 'real person'. I'm assuming she doesn't have a background in acting and if that's the case she did really great.
Yeah, they really forced the whole fight part of this episode. I know its TV logic, but my god the amount of misunderstanding, just to get the classic Mr vs. Mrs Smith fight in the house thing was insane. IDK how, but they could have totally written their way to that outcome better.
I thought it was a great way or entailing the relationship plot with the espionage/action plot. They were at their wits ends and not seeing each other. There was tension with the “company” and John’s failure + Jane being told to kill John. John was staying with his Mom and not at their home.. then Max is killed and John’s Moms home is rigged to explode simultaneously. They both assumed the other was the culprit and met in a public place.. and instead of addressing their suspicions head on, they assumed the worse (like a real couple would) and things significant escalate from there. Obviously it’s the Mr. And Mrs. Smith set piece you want, but I thought it blended the competing themes/plots nicely.
Yeh the pitting themselves against each each other felt a bit forced. It was even mentioned to them that other Smiths could be sent to kill other Smith couples at the dinner. Not sure why they would both make the jump that they were out to kill each other. Good show overall tho.
Because at the end of the previous episode, they were receiving independent orders from hihi. 3 fails, John wants to divorce, and independent messages could lead to one inferring john also a similar instruction to kill the other Smith.
And to add onto this, their dinner with the other Smiths was their realization that they couldn't just separate if things didn't work out. Once they were Smiths, the only way for things to change is to "trade" their partner, aka kill them. Episode 8 reveals that John and Jane were a mission for the other Smiths from the beginning, and I think the whole high risk/low risk conversation was just a way to create conflict between them to see who was willing to advance.
Hihi had been sneakily pitting them against each other from the start (like by favoring Jane), and my theory is that the company intentionally picks out the Smith they think has the most potential and then manipulates them into killing their partner, which would make them a more ruthless agent.
I’m totally getting that too. The company is definitely grooming Jane by making her want to kill John and then reward her for it.
That being said, their relationship would probably be much less rocky without the company’s manipulation.
Oh I thought it was because Jane brings it up in therapy as a thing he does that pisses her off, and she has a petty streak that comes out a lot (see: her faking asthma during the chase).
Mostly because I think it's insane that someone would use the bathroom while rigging the house to explode, haha, so it felt like a message.
Yeah, that was the point. I relly liked John‘s reaction, somewhere between pissed off and „Oh, come on, really?“ but played low-key, because it‘s the scene where they are sitting further apart and he doesn‘t even care anymore.
So I had the same thought, and I was like there's no way he's that stupid but it would play into the not being competent ploy. My best guess is that he thought it was Jane and that she left the seat up to try and trick him bc she's so much smarter than him, but given the circumstance that doesn't really make a ton of sense.
So I think this episode gives a bit of a cover for some of the perceived plot holes if you read into what Parker Posey Jane was saying about Sup/Hihi being seemingly omniscient. I don't think the org is a god, but I think they are using sci-fi world level predictive algorithms that improve as the John and Jane pairs evolve in their missions. The idea that the Johns and Janes are just as much lab rats as they are tools of the company explains a lot of the stuff that otherwise feels like it doesn't make any sense.
I doubt the show is going to go full tilt into a *Person of Interest* direction with *personified AIs*, but I think that the company using predictive algorithms to make the pairings and plot the assignments will be part of the background meta story in a way that acts as a hidden throughline. Maybe it will get pushed into the forefront of the plot eventually, but it feels entirely possible to me that they could go the entire series without Donald and Maya's John and Jane ever fully figuring it out and only seed it throughout the story through clues and other characters.
My theory is the cake mission was just as much of a test of the predictive model the company was making of their behavior as it was a test of their abilities. One of the big criticisms of the central execution I saw in other threads is that it feels like a giant waste of relatively niche talent to not give them the info they need to succeed and be constantly killing off your operatives - which I honestly could just chock up to genre logic - but when you put in into context of what Parker Posey Jane said suddenly the value calculation changes drastically. Their value doesn't primarily come from whatever they have achieved by completing their missions, it comes from how their behavior aligns and deviates with the predictive model. Being able to predict when they will fail a mission or run away from the company or turn on each other is just as important data as them succeeding would be.
Just like the show is using the spy missions to explore the stuff that people in long term relationships go through, I think the background meta story of the company is exploring the role that the predictive models and algorithms play in the creation and consumption of media content. But I think that's a backburner thing and their primary interest is in the struggles and joys of interpersonal relationships.
this episode fills in just about every perceived plot hole that have been mentioned on the sub. The other part filled in is that John is the test for Jane to move up to very high risk since that level is killing other Johns and Janes. The other John mentioned that the other Jane was his second back in ep 4. Presumably candidates for very high risk are first given partners who are likely to fail quickly and that failure is further pushed by Hihi sending vague mission briefs and conflicting information to the couple that makes the expendable John/Jane look at fault. John had the skills on the surface level to be a spy, but as we saw from the conversation between Jane and his mom, his deeper mindset is not fit for being a full-time undercover spy. On the other hand Jane was the opposite with the mindset perfect for a spy but didn't have all the skills.
When Parker Posey was raving about Hihi, she sounded like a cult fanatic worshipping The Machine (or Samaritan?) in Person of Interest.
Which coincidentally had an episode where John Reese and Zoe Morgan played a married couple while on a mission.
Alias had a similar one too when Sydney and Michael went undercover as a married couple in that creepy Russian-American suburb.
Im sure there are other examples.
The spy missions as a cover (ha!) for relationship struggles were also portrayed sometimes in Chuck, albeit in a silly not-so-deep level since it's mostly comedy. Anyone know if TV Tropes has a specific term for this?
If the show does go full scifi, I would love to see The Machine and Mrs. Davis as a couple lol.
That’s how I knew shit was gonna get real. I was worried that John’s mom would be next, since the cat was the 1 thing Jane brought along to her spy life just like John did with his mom.
It was annoying because I think an actual cat would be far quicker to dart away if there are sudden small explosions caused by bullets than a human would. I remember the other day I put a hot skillet under water and my cat who was in the kitchen was startled by the sound and darted to the other side of the room in half a second.
not if the whole point was to kill the cat (and denise) to make john and jane fight each other to exhaustion so that john 2 and jane 2 could kill them easier. which was the whole point
Yeah that may have been the intent of the plot, but it was not staged in a way that was credible with real cat behavior (something a lot of the audience would be familiar with). They didn't bother making the scene credible in service of the plot needs.... would hardly be the first time that's happened in fiction obviously.
Agree lol
I get being upset when a cat, or any pet, dies in a piece of media, but if you shoot in the direction of a cat (or any living thing) in rapid succession.. it’s going to die.
There was a first shot that missed both Jane and Max and hit the counter he was sitting on. That would have definitely sent my cats bolting to the other side of the house, Max barely reacted.
They always show a recap before the episode, which I skip as soon as the button appears. The one second I did see was about Jane introducing Max, so I knew that he would die.
Yes I caught this too! I watched the movie for the first time before starting this show and thought that was a great nod to the original. It's nice to see that remakes can actually be retellings of substance instead of blatant cash grabs without any real emotional investment in the characters.
Totally. If people haven't seen the movie it's worth a watch. Slightly different premise, but sort of plays out the same. I think watching the movie adds to the experience of watching the show.
I’m shocked by this episode I mean this series was amazing talk a bout a cliffhanger tho at the end. I mean who is that guy really? I hope there is a season 2 cuz I need it.
Brutal cliff hanger, but feel like it’s not super meaningful if there is a 2nd season. Unless it’s an anthology series, where they focus on different Johns and Janes, what else could happen other than our John and Jane living
I feel like this is a one off series.
I interpreted the ending as three shots right away means that the main John and Jane both die.
One shot by the main Jane to extra high level Jane that misses. And then extra high level Jane kills high level Jane and then kills John.
But then again there’s the rule of if you don’t see it then anything can happen lol.
It can go either way. The way you said, or jane #2 missed, gets shot and killed, then Jane #1 goes to kill John #2
Either way, I don't see a second season with the same characters happening. This show was more about their relationship than about their actual job, we've already gone through their relationship. It would be a huge shift to have a second season not based on the ups and downs of their relationship
Edit: also to clarify, the third shot was indeed slightly delayed. Whether it was long enough to possibly be from Jane #1 moving through the house to John #2 is up to the viewer though
Kinda reminded me of Sherlock season 1…anything could happen here, but the most logical reach is the Janes had a stand off and the one came out on top shot again.
John 2 was laying unconscious or dead on the first floor, not sure if killing him would caused the window to light up.
No. John lied. When the other Smiths said do you guys like us. John says no. While Jane said yeah at first. Meaning John lied. While hand told the truth. So John lied about his gun having no bullets. Because his wife would have taken his bullets to face off earlier. He didn't want her to die. That second shot is John's. Remember John still hasn't told us who he killed. He started off by saying he killed one person. Who was a accident! 13 on purpose. He's trying to pay a debt.
No, one said yes, and the other said "until we didn't"
And even if you're correct, it's not really a lie, there was a whole 5 minute scene about how they were confused why they liked them at first and how much they hated them lol
Edit: the point is, saying either yes or no to that question is not a lie
I agree with this - plus I think their deaths are a callback to episode 1. We saw two Smith get killed, before we knew anything about the company. I think that was foreshadowing their eventual deaths. I’d hope for a second season (I hope I’m wrong), but I get how this one can live on it’s own as a one-off.
>Could also be anthology and at the end of season two our John and Jane end up hunting the season two characters .
I don't see how that would work, after all of this wouldn't the company not want them anymore?
That was my interpretation too. Three shots surely means that Jane 2 fired at least twice, which doesn't look good for our John and Jane.
That said, whether John and Jane lived probably depends on whether we get a second season more than anything LOL. If we do, they can easily come up with an explanation for how they survived.
The flash wouldn't be visible (or at least not AS visible) if she'd go into the panic room. Also I feel the 3rd shot came too quick - more like finishing tap.
I really really want to see them back so I'm probably biased as fuck.
The three shots could have come from a completely different person. . . Bev. . .
A month with his "target" and them sharing secrets. Also, the note she left could have been a dead drop/ confirmation of a plan they concocted.
Maybe Jane never opened the door🤷♂️
I don't really get that? With 1 bullet it's a "make your shot count" situation, so a delayed third shot could just as easily be two misses from Jane 2 and the killshot from Jane 1.
I'm probably going *way* too deep into this but, in episode 7, the movie John is watching with Bev is *Harold and Maude*.
There are a lot of parallels between the two stories, I think.
Interesting that the end of *Harold and Maude* sees Harold driving his car off a cliff after Maude kills herself. But Harold was faking his death, one last time, and he walks away in the end.
I dunno, maybe there's something to it.
I really wanted Paul Dano to be HiHi, but it's hilarious he's just a really obsessed neighbor. I live in NYC, and the real estate envy is real.
I had my fingers crossed for the possibility of Brad Pitt making a cameo as HiHi, but honestly I'm okay with HiHi remaining a mystery instead of some big reveal that falls flat. The point isn't really understanding the Company or unveiling some huge Mission Impossible/James Bond-esque espionage network with a detailed backstory. The appeal of the show is the situational humor of their jobs and the tension of their relationship, which is why I think the cliffhanger works.
It's not a feel-good action blockbuster where you see the hero survive against all odds, walk into the sunset, and look cool, which makes you feel cool by association. Ending the first season on that level of emotional investment not knowing if they pulled through *is* the payoff.
So, in all, I think it's a great, unexpected twist on the classic spy story that breaks the mold just enough to make the cliché premise feel new again while still delivering the high-stakes appeal of the genre.
Think it maybe weird to have Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie separately appear but they obviously also won’t appear together since their marriage was very public fractured with the accusation that Pitt was physically abusive
John with a gunshot wound and Jane charging out the door. Then finishing with an outside shot of a window with muzzle flashes showing.
The finale didn't show their lifeless bodies. Therefore, we don't know for sure that either of them are dead.
It seems like a similar thing happened to the John and Jane in the first episode but they had escaped and tried hiding for so long that the Jane said she’d had enough of running and in the scene there was more than just another John and Jane coming to finalise them it was a whole squad which shows that even if the main John and Jane in episode 8 does somehow survive they will share the same fate eventually
When I saw the sniper in the first scene, I assumed it was Maya Erskine. I was expecting the whole show to lead up to how she got there. And it seems like it did. I think John died and Jane (having killed her own assassins) moves to super high risk, killing other Smiths. Plus, it seems like Donald Glover to kill off his own character to avoid getting tied to the project indefinitely.
Really? Judging by the spacing of the gunshots I assumed they lived and Jane 2 was the one who was killed. It was *Bang* *Bang* 1 second *Bang*. So I thought Jane 2 missed her shots and Jane 1 lingered a moment before finishing her off.
If there is no season 2 then I guess the ending was left ambiguous with the viewer left to interpret the ending the way they see fit.
The first two shots being Jane 1 and 2 exchanging shots makes more sense. Then the 3rd shot HAS to be Jane 2 making her shooting John the most reasonable outcome.
I haven't rewatched to check, but I have a vague memory of an earlier episode where John and Jane are at home talking about a gun and John says something along the lines of, "Careful, those tend to jam." If that's the trashcan gun Parker Posey's Jane uses at the end, it could explain why she only gets two quick shots off before being shot with the last bullet.
I love characters like that that keep you thinking there’s something malicious about them but meanwhile they’re just a regular person who happens to live beside them😂
Don’t think it confirms anything really, it just seems like Dano seeing the carnage has assumed they’ve gotten a divorce. Probably nothing more than a moment of comedy.
The series is great! I love how each episode is self contained but also add to the main story arc. I knew the other smiths were eventually gonna try and take them out i just didn’t know it was gonna be this cliffhanger.
It’s good I really like their chemistry
There are genuine laughs to be had.
I’m glad I got to see this as in its uninterrupted entirety as it would have killed the momentum that’s was building.
It hasn’t over stayed its welcome but if this is it what a fun ride!
While I was watching episode 4 I just kept thinking “how did meeting another spy this close to you not raise any red flags??” With the other smiths, so I’m glad they showed up again.
I do feel like the truth serum scene went on a bit long. They were kinda vague about whether this would be a series or just mini-series so I’m glad they’re teasing more at the end.
I don’t think it’s as good as Atlanta was but the potential is there
Given the way they get close to their targets through charm, I can’t believe our John and Jane didn’t think for even a second that they were being watched/targeted, or that they were the other couple’s mission in any way. Johnald, you’re telling me this dude just shows up out of the blue where you happen to be, friendly as can be, and you don’t think there’s something hairy going on here??
I think it was literally just to get close to them. I think our John and Jane were at 2 failures at that point, so get close, get inside, learn where the guns and safe room are, know thy enemy for when the day comes sort of thing, I suppose.
I mean, the assassins should have been given the layout and have the safe room code. A lot of the spy stuff doesn't make a lick of sense.
I would assume a competent agency would have cut the phone line, but calling 911 on that red phone to get a SWAT response would have been a good move.
Did the brownstone have cameras in it? Like could Hihi see into their bathroom/ bedrooms? In the beginning, I didn't think so, but then in episode 8, Jane gets a new laptop sent to her, so does that mean Hihi saw her smash the first one?
I wouldn’t be even remotely surprised, but it’s hard to say how much time passes between episodes and similarly between the laptop break and the new one being sent. Maybe the radio silence prompted it. But honestly a home built by a spy agency has gotta be bugged. I’m shocked that never came up though.
I'm so dumb, when the shots were first fired I thought "save Max!" and then when she was hiding behind the counter, "ugh, so unrealistic that a cat would just stay there and not run away at the slightest noise", like I couldn't even fathom the idea of Max's death 😭
1. Enjoyed the whole season thoroughly.
2. From what the other Jane said, HiHi might be some kind of AI?
3. The cliffhanger almost ruins the series for me. I guess we will have to accept that they survive if the series gets a renewal, and they don't if it doesn't. I really didn't need the show to end on that kind of cliffhanger.
PLEASE.. would love for them to do to the White Lotus route, & keep it going but with new leads each season… i can stomach this John way more than i can Jane… i just CANNOT..
That being said, I think, this Jane is simply more believable than Eiza Gonzalez. It's weird because Maya Erskine is more attractive in real life than in the show. Which is usually the opposite way around.
Yea her character was 100% insufferable, i have a low tolerance threshold for people like that in real life, so seeing it on screen has the same effect… She nailed her role, but i hate her character.
What I originally thought happened in the ending:
1st shot: Jane #1 only has one bullet and misses it on Jane #2.
2nd shot: Jane #2 shoots Jane #1, killing her.
3rd shot: Jane #2 goes over to shoot John #1, finishing him off.
Sad and obscure ending where the couple exchange their last vows and promises for them to be left empty and unfulfilled.
Yes. When I saw he was wearing all white I was wondering if there was a meaning to that. Then at the house I noticed she was all in black. Spy vs. spy.
I wonder if the safe room is just some kind of allegory. Why would their employer who is meant to be some assassin for hire organisation protect them?
They’ve been set up to fail form the start. All that’s in the safe room is a cartoon like red phone.
Right? Like the first aid kit apparently only has some super basic gauze or whatever like they picked up one of those cheap kits from target or something.
Considering their job I would have expected that thing to be fully kitted out with all the good stuff. Heck, at *least* some QuikClot!
lol i loved it. the disgusted tone of "sure...you'll have to walk through the house" and the sarcastic "water? anything else?" were cracking me up but the best was his delivery of "well my divorce made me crazy" after having a gun pointed at him
So Hihi is a Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning-style AI, right?
It would explain "his" answers always appearing ultra-fast (even for movie/ series standards) after they write and the other Smiths' points about "him" knowing what everyone does before they do it, being like a god and probably being able to set up that brownstone against regulations.
Dramatically it gives our protagonists a realistic opportunity to win against The Company -- if you only have to kill an AI that controls the whole affair it's probably more feasible than fighting a whole spy organization with section chiefs and a hierarchy and whatnot.
I definitely think it's an AI and it's manipulating the Smiths and able to predict potential outcomes.
Id bet it knows that it's likely for Smiths to actually fall for each other and uses the relationship to manipulate them or drive wedges between them if/when it seems it necessary.
>Id bet it knows that it's likely for Smiths to actually fall for each other and uses the relationship to manipulate them or drive wedges between them if/when it seems it necessary.
I thought that too, just forgot to mention it. Hihi obviously does this when writing only to Jane.
I’m not into the anthology idea at all cause the nature of this show doesn’t really allow it. It’s a relationship drama in the frame work of a spy adventure. The relationship is the core of the whole thing and if that doesn’t work, then the show becomes extremely generic. It’s hard to find a duo that works at the capacity Donald and Maya do.
With how long 2nd seasons take now even if it does get renewed they can at least give the anthology effort a shot given who knows what our leads schedules will be like by then lol. But I agree, I definitely want a continuation of our couple for season 2.
yeah but isnt donald glover also the showrunner? the team is pretty much the same like in atlanta and i remember they shot season 3 and season 4 in one session. also in the recent years the schedules were pretty messy because of covid. everything got delayed. succession season 3 was almost a chamber play because they had to shoot in apartments with only 2-3 people in the room
I can’t believe they killed Max. Man fuck that shit.
I wish they’re alive and next season, if we get a next season, they went after HiHi. I REALLY don’t want it to be an anthology series. I mean it can be as long as we get a clear ending with this Jane and John. Even if they ended up dying. The cliffhanger REALLY bugged me.
And while I’m at it, I’m super bummed we didn’t get to see more of Alexander Skarsgård and Eiza González’s Jane and John. I feel like they would have been a great pair.
I thought this finale was damn good. It was all engaging, emotional…even the fighting and gun play you could feel all the anger and resentment they’ve been holding against one another leak out. Entertaining as hell.
This episode and this show in general takes these kind of absurd comedic concepts and makes them work dramatically and they work so well. The truth serum scene would easily be too silly to be meaningful but they manage to take a light hearted concept and find the emotional center of it (which seems to be the ultimate goal over all) and it becomes a beautiful meeting in the middle between two very dysfunctional people lol. I could go on and on about the truth serum scene in detail, there’s so much to unpack and dissect.
The way they chose to end it upset me at first but on rewatch, I’ve come to appreciate it. If this is all we get, we watched a journey between two lonely people who found someone and ultimately chose each other in their worst moments. Theres beauty in the tragedy of it all. If they get a second season, I don’t give a rip how they explain it, as long as we get more of this, lol.
Cause it can’t be stated enough, shows like this bank on the chemistry and camaraderie between its pairing. For all of this to work, we have to care about both of them together. This show could so easily be a flop, or just mid and blah, but they really found something special in Donald Glover and Maya Erskine. The show leaned into them hard and it’s paid off exponentially. No matter what happens with this show, I hope those two work together often in the future. They are that good.
Ended up not liking the characters for different reasons
everything that makes Jane good at her job makes her a horrible partner, she was just so cold mean and manipulative it was hard to take her side even when she was right
John is a horrible spy, like holy shit dude, other people can afford to be bad at their job but not you. You're literally in life and death situations constantly and still comprise the mission
i had a great time with show and hope fully we get a season 2. Not liking the characters didnt make me not like the show btw, they were just awful spies and partners
I think Donald Glover is one of the most talented people on the planet, and a top 2 entertainer of his generation and he aint number 2. That said, most of his later projects seem to be theraputic extentions of his unresolved personal issues. I get how one could relate, but it doesn't feel as though mass appeal was the primary objective. It's compelling enough but there is a an air of selfishness within his screen work that sometimes feels too intimate, too raw, and too personal. It often inspires similar feelings of unintended violations of privacy that fight skit between Kendrick and Taylor on MMMATBS evokes.
Bro I been a Childish Gambino fan since he dropped Camp and been followed shows like Community n his other works . I feel like I know who he is authentically as a person: his comedy, music, humor, preference, insecurities, how weird he is, how deep he can get. This is him, his art, he cares less about appealing the mass, this is him doing his art
Rewatched the ending and now convinced Jane won out. All three muzzle flashes were in the hallway. Jane opened the door, surprised Super high risk (SHR) Jane who missed her shots then Jane took her out. Especially as SHR Jane was using the gun John said jammed easily so may not have been able to get more shots off. If Super high risk Jane had won out there wouldn’t be a third muzzle flash as Glover was behind the door and could only be shot from inside the room without a muzzle flash visible from the window.
Eh, no idea. In real life, when shooting another person to try to kill them, especially if they are armed, you should shoot them multiple times. Jane 2 would have had no idea how many bullets John 1 and Jane 1 had, and oftentimes you can't tell if you'd killed someone instantly.
I think they just wanted to end on a cliffhanger.
X= maya
Y= Jane 2
Max ammunition = 2y+x
All combos of shots fired
Xyy (maya misses, Jane 2 kills both)
YxY ( jane 2 kills maya but leaves Michael to die)
YYX (both shots are missed by jane 2 and maya finished her off)
There are too many variables at play to determine which one of these are the correct order but as only 3 shots are fired there are only 3 possible combinations within the given parameters so any of these are equally likely. Unless the audio team payed attention to the gun muzzle sounds to differentiate the firearms held by maya and jane it’s heard to tell by audio alone.
> audio team *paid* attention to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
This episode being only a 7.8 on IMDB at the moment is some fucking bullshit lmao. This episode was an easy 9+. What a finale. So many iconic moments too. The fight scene homage made me so happy!
I know some don't like the supposed cliffhanger ending but I just see it as open ended, and I do appreciate the art of it when it comes to how it was executed, and just as a general concept. If this were a movie, that ending would work just as well imo.
The constant shift in tones were crazy and that last conversation was absolutely heart-wrenching. I need these two back on my screen, they're an absolute joy to watch. Also absolutely love the writing on this show and how seemingly tiny throwaway details show themselves to actually be vital.
Nice, as expected from the moment Jane got shot at (RIP Max), they went back to the movie roots and did a finale with them actually trying to kill each other. Still kind of got a resounding irk that Jane tried to kill John so callously after assuming he was the one who shot at her and don’t think they belong together though.
They pulled the subversion multiple times over already like with Ron Perlman’s character, but that Paul Dano shit still caught me off guard (the moment John walked downstairs, I did feel like he wasn’t going to be Hihi though because having his masterplans exposed just a few steps down felt way too sloppy for the mastermind behind spies). That post-credits scene with him was hilarious.
I can’t tell if the writers meant for the thing Jane said she loved about John (leaving the toilet seat down) being something his mother is largely responsible for to be interpreted as a good or bad thing for their compatibility, lol.
Also as expected, the other John and Jane returned to kill them. The super high risk entailing nothing other than missions dealing with other Smiths was a nice touch, and the callback to the three sneezes was excellent (and the panic room to a lesser degree). Found it kind of unbelievable that they have a whole ass room devoted to that but didn’t have it equipped with any better medical supplies and artillery though.
Am rather surprised we got nothing about Hihi other than the other John giving them even more mystique by talking of them like they’re a god-like entity that can really do something as supernatural and omniscient as knowing what people will do before they even do it. Can definitely see a topic AI allusion there. Noticed numerous times throughout the season that Hihi’s responses to Jane’s texts seemed intentionally instantaneous, like faster than a human could read and process-let alone start typing a response to it.
Even though I loved the season, I hated the cliffhanger.
As for a 2nd season, I'm torn. Obviously these two had great chemistry, so I want to see them again, but this show turning into the cliche "agent(s) with a vendetta go against the big, powerful, mysterious company that betrayed them" just doesn't appeal to me at all. I like the idea of an anthology, and I trust Glover in whatever he does, but again I'd be worried about the chemistry of who they pick. And even if the chemistry is good, what's new to explore? It's weird, I want to see more, but I'm not sure how they go forward from here while still keeping what makes the show so great.
But again, everything Glover creates is gold, so if he continues the story, I'm sure it'll be great. Selfishly, I wish they hadn't completely severed the couple from the company in just one season. I think they could have easily gone another season or more. But man, what a great show. I had really low expectations going in so it was great to be pleasantly surprised
I just finished and my fan theory is that hihi is an algorith controlled by the employees in Severance.
Also I dont know how this show works with a second season, I'm not sure how they could expand on the format.
What happened to John/Michael’s mom?? Did Jane hurt her in retaliation for what she perceived as John’s killing of Max…?
I loved this series so much! It was clever and such a blast
Not explicitly, just the combined facts that we didn’t see her leave, and Jane didn’t bring up that she’d met John’s mom- a pretty big deal- which kind of made it seem like she was intentionally not bringing it up, or that it was being saved for a dramatic reveal. I’m leaning towards mom having just left given the way the rest of the episode shook down, but I was a little surprised that it didn’t come up again.
The reveal that Paul Dano was a Sotheby's agent who was obsessed with knowing how two software engineers funded a boutique townhouse combining two historical brownstones and cut through all the NYC red tape to install a pool sent me. If my neighbors pulled that off, that'd be my roman empire too.
Crying laughing at that scene. They knew casting Dano in that role would set alarm bells off in people’s head cuz my man can play some CREEPS
Which confused me when they chose to call him "hot".
Hot to Jane, which I personally liked bc it fits with her whole weird vibe.
She said she did it out of jealously, so I don't think she actually finds him attractive. She just said that to manipulate John because she thinks jealously is a good thing.
He did look very different tho lol I’ve never seen him with that hair cut haha
Biggest plot twist of the year so far is Paul Dano playing a regular guy instead of some weird little villainous freak
I kinda wondered about whether he is a creepy villian. There's a prolonged gun fight next door to him and he doesn't call the cops. Then swings by the next day to see if anyone is alive. If they're dead then there's potential for him to sell the house so he doesn't call the cops.
Haha I thought the same. "Well obviously they're not gonna cast Paul Dano to be *just* the neighbor, he has to be the secret villain or something".
very meta. every show should do this. Like a Friends remake needs some regulars in the coffee shop miffed about the group always getting the best sitting area. And have a neighbor in a smaller apartment trying to figure out how they can afford to live in the building
that also got me lmfaoo
I thought that John noticing the toilet seat up, he would infer that the person who planted the C4 was a man, therefore was going to Jane to let her know the agency was targeting him. I didn't know he went to meet with her because he thought she was the culprit. Did that seem odd to anyone else? Also super cool finding out that is Donald Glover's actual mom in the role.
I thought it was a callback to the therapist session where she says he always leaves the seat down so he assumed it was her poking at that
Yeah I thought it was a call back to that episode too where she mentioned that, except it was her "sign" to let John know since she didn't *really* want to kill him. Guess that wasn't it though haha.
I personally thought this was the weakest episode of the series. Them being pitted against each other was lazy. There were soo many hints that they wouldn’t kill each other. Hell John outright says it in one of the episodes, think it was when they kidnapped Ron Perlman Nonetheless great series. Little weak ending.
He vowed never to kill her in their impromptu marriage vows and it shouldn't be as love wrenching as it was lol.
Same re: Glover's mom. Immediately checked when I saw her because she seemed like a 'real person'. I'm assuming she doesn't have a background in acting and if that's the case she did really great.
That is Donald Glover’s real mom lol I thought the same thing and looked her up.
His Mom was so sweet, I just wanted to give her a hug.
Yeah, they really forced the whole fight part of this episode. I know its TV logic, but my god the amount of misunderstanding, just to get the classic Mr vs. Mrs Smith fight in the house thing was insane. IDK how, but they could have totally written their way to that outcome better.
I thought it was a great way or entailing the relationship plot with the espionage/action plot. They were at their wits ends and not seeing each other. There was tension with the “company” and John’s failure + Jane being told to kill John. John was staying with his Mom and not at their home.. then Max is killed and John’s Moms home is rigged to explode simultaneously. They both assumed the other was the culprit and met in a public place.. and instead of addressing their suspicions head on, they assumed the worse (like a real couple would) and things significant escalate from there. Obviously it’s the Mr. And Mrs. Smith set piece you want, but I thought it blended the competing themes/plots nicely.
A lack of communication can kill a relationship
Yeh the pitting themselves against each each other felt a bit forced. It was even mentioned to them that other Smiths could be sent to kill other Smith couples at the dinner. Not sure why they would both make the jump that they were out to kill each other. Good show overall tho.
Because at the end of the previous episode, they were receiving independent orders from hihi. 3 fails, John wants to divorce, and independent messages could lead to one inferring john also a similar instruction to kill the other Smith.
And to add onto this, their dinner with the other Smiths was their realization that they couldn't just separate if things didn't work out. Once they were Smiths, the only way for things to change is to "trade" their partner, aka kill them. Episode 8 reveals that John and Jane were a mission for the other Smiths from the beginning, and I think the whole high risk/low risk conversation was just a way to create conflict between them to see who was willing to advance. Hihi had been sneakily pitting them against each other from the start (like by favoring Jane), and my theory is that the company intentionally picks out the Smith they think has the most potential and then manipulates them into killing their partner, which would make them a more ruthless agent.
I’m totally getting that too. The company is definitely grooming Jane by making her want to kill John and then reward her for it. That being said, their relationship would probably be much less rocky without the company’s manipulation.
Oh I thought it was because Jane brings it up in therapy as a thing he does that pisses her off, and she has a petty streak that comes out a lot (see: her faking asthma during the chase). Mostly because I think it's insane that someone would use the bathroom while rigging the house to explode, haha, so it felt like a message.
> Jane brings it up in therapy as a thing he does that pisses her off She says it as an example of what she liked about him.
It feels facetious tho. Like the counselor is asking you to name something you like about your partner and you mentioned toilet etiquette? Lmao cmon
Yeah, that was the point. I relly liked John‘s reaction, somewhere between pissed off and „Oh, come on, really?“ but played low-key, because it‘s the scene where they are sitting further apart and he doesn‘t even care anymore.
Oh you may be right - I binged the entire thing while running a fever so stuff is blurry. Regardless, I thought it was a reference to that scene.
So I had the same thought, and I was like there's no way he's that stupid but it would play into the not being competent ploy. My best guess is that he thought it was Jane and that she left the seat up to try and trick him bc she's so much smarter than him, but given the circumstance that doesn't really make a ton of sense.
So I think this episode gives a bit of a cover for some of the perceived plot holes if you read into what Parker Posey Jane was saying about Sup/Hihi being seemingly omniscient. I don't think the org is a god, but I think they are using sci-fi world level predictive algorithms that improve as the John and Jane pairs evolve in their missions. The idea that the Johns and Janes are just as much lab rats as they are tools of the company explains a lot of the stuff that otherwise feels like it doesn't make any sense. I doubt the show is going to go full tilt into a *Person of Interest* direction with *personified AIs*, but I think that the company using predictive algorithms to make the pairings and plot the assignments will be part of the background meta story in a way that acts as a hidden throughline. Maybe it will get pushed into the forefront of the plot eventually, but it feels entirely possible to me that they could go the entire series without Donald and Maya's John and Jane ever fully figuring it out and only seed it throughout the story through clues and other characters. My theory is the cake mission was just as much of a test of the predictive model the company was making of their behavior as it was a test of their abilities. One of the big criticisms of the central execution I saw in other threads is that it feels like a giant waste of relatively niche talent to not give them the info they need to succeed and be constantly killing off your operatives - which I honestly could just chock up to genre logic - but when you put in into context of what Parker Posey Jane said suddenly the value calculation changes drastically. Their value doesn't primarily come from whatever they have achieved by completing their missions, it comes from how their behavior aligns and deviates with the predictive model. Being able to predict when they will fail a mission or run away from the company or turn on each other is just as important data as them succeeding would be. Just like the show is using the spy missions to explore the stuff that people in long term relationships go through, I think the background meta story of the company is exploring the role that the predictive models and algorithms play in the creation and consumption of media content. But I think that's a backburner thing and their primary interest is in the struggles and joys of interpersonal relationships.
This guy sci-fi’s
this episode fills in just about every perceived plot hole that have been mentioned on the sub. The other part filled in is that John is the test for Jane to move up to very high risk since that level is killing other Johns and Janes. The other John mentioned that the other Jane was his second back in ep 4. Presumably candidates for very high risk are first given partners who are likely to fail quickly and that failure is further pushed by Hihi sending vague mission briefs and conflicting information to the couple that makes the expendable John/Jane look at fault. John had the skills on the surface level to be a spy, but as we saw from the conversation between Jane and his mom, his deeper mindset is not fit for being a full-time undercover spy. On the other hand Jane was the opposite with the mindset perfect for a spy but didn't have all the skills.
For sure 100% this is an intent of the show. I think the scene in episode 7 about the Apple News hippo story was a microcosm of the whole show.
especially since those alerts aren't actually algorithmically driven
Lol hope you get a job as a writer for season 2 if there is one. This was a dope piece of predictive lore.
This is my head canon now
I like this. I think it’s also funny how they are both “software engineers”
Have you seen the show Devs? If not, you will like it based on your description here.
Great analysis. There is a hint about the algorithm idea on episode 7 (the hippo news)
When Parker Posey was raving about Hihi, she sounded like a cult fanatic worshipping The Machine (or Samaritan?) in Person of Interest. Which coincidentally had an episode where John Reese and Zoe Morgan played a married couple while on a mission. Alias had a similar one too when Sydney and Michael went undercover as a married couple in that creepy Russian-American suburb. Im sure there are other examples. The spy missions as a cover (ha!) for relationship struggles were also portrayed sometimes in Chuck, albeit in a silly not-so-deep level since it's mostly comedy. Anyone know if TV Tropes has a specific term for this? If the show does go full scifi, I would love to see The Machine and Mrs. Davis as a couple lol.
RIP Whiskey Cavalier
MAX D:
That’s how I knew shit was gonna get real. I was worried that John’s mom would be next, since the cat was the 1 thing Jane brought along to her spy life just like John did with his mom.
As a cat person that was so deflating. I was shell shocked and out of it for the rest of the episode.
I couldn’t believe they showed the cat on the counter top
It was annoying because I think an actual cat would be far quicker to dart away if there are sudden small explosions caused by bullets than a human would. I remember the other day I put a hot skillet under water and my cat who was in the kitchen was startled by the sound and darted to the other side of the room in half a second.
not if the whole point was to kill the cat (and denise) to make john and jane fight each other to exhaustion so that john 2 and jane 2 could kill them easier. which was the whole point
Yeah that may have been the intent of the plot, but it was not staged in a way that was credible with real cat behavior (something a lot of the audience would be familiar with). They didn't bother making the scene credible in service of the plot needs.... would hardly be the first time that's happened in fiction obviously.
dude, if someone shoot at a cat with a sniper and doesn't miss the cat will die. cats don't have spideysense
Lmao bro said “but the cat still had 8 more lives”
Agree lol I get being upset when a cat, or any pet, dies in a piece of media, but if you shoot in the direction of a cat (or any living thing) in rapid succession.. it’s going to die.
There was a first shot that missed both Jane and Max and hit the counter he was sitting on. That would have definitely sent my cats bolting to the other side of the house, Max barely reacted.
They always show a recap before the episode, which I skip as soon as the button appears. The one second I did see was about Jane introducing Max, so I knew that he would die.
I hate it when series do this
Damn they really did an homage to the film with the dialog and choreography of the fight scene. It was identical.
Yes I caught this too! I watched the movie for the first time before starting this show and thought that was a great nod to the original. It's nice to see that remakes can actually be retellings of substance instead of blatant cash grabs without any real emotional investment in the characters.
Donald Glover's "Babe..?" was a sublime callback to Brad Pitt's.
Totally. If people haven't seen the movie it's worth a watch. Slightly different premise, but sort of plays out the same. I think watching the movie adds to the experience of watching the show.
I’m shocked by this episode I mean this series was amazing talk a bout a cliffhanger tho at the end. I mean who is that guy really? I hope there is a season 2 cuz I need it.
Brutal cliff hanger, but feel like it’s not super meaningful if there is a 2nd season. Unless it’s an anthology series, where they focus on different Johns and Janes, what else could happen other than our John and Jane living
I feel like this is a one off series. I interpreted the ending as three shots right away means that the main John and Jane both die. One shot by the main Jane to extra high level Jane that misses. And then extra high level Jane kills high level Jane and then kills John. But then again there’s the rule of if you don’t see it then anything can happen lol.
It can go either way. The way you said, or jane #2 missed, gets shot and killed, then Jane #1 goes to kill John #2 Either way, I don't see a second season with the same characters happening. This show was more about their relationship than about their actual job, we've already gone through their relationship. It would be a huge shift to have a second season not based on the ups and downs of their relationship Edit: also to clarify, the third shot was indeed slightly delayed. Whether it was long enough to possibly be from Jane #1 moving through the house to John #2 is up to the viewer though
Kinda reminded me of Sherlock season 1…anything could happen here, but the most logical reach is the Janes had a stand off and the one came out on top shot again. John 2 was laying unconscious or dead on the first floor, not sure if killing him would caused the window to light up.
No. John lied. When the other Smiths said do you guys like us. John says no. While Jane said yeah at first. Meaning John lied. While hand told the truth. So John lied about his gun having no bullets. Because his wife would have taken his bullets to face off earlier. He didn't want her to die. That second shot is John's. Remember John still hasn't told us who he killed. He started off by saying he killed one person. Who was a accident! 13 on purpose. He's trying to pay a debt.
No, one said yes, and the other said "until we didn't" And even if you're correct, it's not really a lie, there was a whole 5 minute scene about how they were confused why they liked them at first and how much they hated them lol Edit: the point is, saying either yes or no to that question is not a lie
I agree with this - plus I think their deaths are a callback to episode 1. We saw two Smith get killed, before we knew anything about the company. I think that was foreshadowing their eventual deaths. I’d hope for a second season (I hope I’m wrong), but I get how this one can live on it’s own as a one-off.
Could also be anthology and at the end of season two our John and Jane end up hunting the season two characters .
>Could also be anthology and at the end of season two our John and Jane end up hunting the season two characters . I don't see how that would work, after all of this wouldn't the company not want them anymore?
Yeah I guess I was thinking if they killed off two “better” John and Jane’s maybe they’d be forgiven
No. John lied. John said he liked the other jhons. Jane the one who says at first. John didn't. Mean john lied about his gun being emitty.
That was my interpretation too. Three shots surely means that Jane 2 fired at least twice, which doesn't look good for our John and Jane. That said, whether John and Jane lived probably depends on whether we get a second season more than anything LOL. If we do, they can easily come up with an explanation for how they survived.
The flash wouldn't be visible (or at least not AS visible) if she'd go into the panic room. Also I feel the 3rd shot came too quick - more like finishing tap. I really really want to see them back so I'm probably biased as fuck.
Three shots absolutely confirm John and Jane died. Two quick shots, a pause, and the third. Jane missed, Jane #2 kills her, and then kills John.
The three shots could have come from a completely different person. . . Bev. . . A month with his "target" and them sharing secrets. Also, the note she left could have been a dead drop/ confirmation of a plan they concocted. Maybe Jane never opened the door🤷♂️
Or our Jane came out on top from the stand off and took the others gun and finish her off. But your scenario is the more likely scenario
I don't really get that? With 1 bullet it's a "make your shot count" situation, so a delayed third shot could just as easily be two misses from Jane 2 and the killshot from Jane 1.
I'm probably going *way* too deep into this but, in episode 7, the movie John is watching with Bev is *Harold and Maude*. There are a lot of parallels between the two stories, I think. Interesting that the end of *Harold and Maude* sees Harold driving his car off a cliff after Maude kills herself. But Harold was faking his death, one last time, and he walks away in the end. I dunno, maybe there's something to it.
That’s…interesting 🤔
I really wanted Paul Dano to be HiHi, but it's hilarious he's just a really obsessed neighbor. I live in NYC, and the real estate envy is real. I had my fingers crossed for the possibility of Brad Pitt making a cameo as HiHi, but honestly I'm okay with HiHi remaining a mystery instead of some big reveal that falls flat. The point isn't really understanding the Company or unveiling some huge Mission Impossible/James Bond-esque espionage network with a detailed backstory. The appeal of the show is the situational humor of their jobs and the tension of their relationship, which is why I think the cliffhanger works. It's not a feel-good action blockbuster where you see the hero survive against all odds, walk into the sunset, and look cool, which makes you feel cool by association. Ending the first season on that level of emotional investment not knowing if they pulled through *is* the payoff. So, in all, I think it's a great, unexpected twist on the classic spy story that breaks the mold just enough to make the cliché premise feel new again while still delivering the high-stakes appeal of the genre.
I live in Manhattan and my god..that house they were living in was unreal lol..
Think it maybe weird to have Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie separately appear but they obviously also won’t appear together since their marriage was very public fractured with the accusation that Pitt was physically abusive
Team Jane. Long live Max you was a real one. 🕊️
shy expansion serious homeless languid skirt sink combative payment soft *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>(though based on the truth serum conversation neither were going to kill each other) Could have fooled me when Jane trapped him with that bomb lol.
Screw sociopaths. Leave nothing but destruction in their wake. . .
Didn't like that cliffhanger although the gunshots imply that they are both dead. Wish it had a better ending. 9/10 show otherwise.
I think the first scene of the series, tells you all you need to know about the the ending.
Wait what how?
the first scene we see the couple get killed, what do we see in the last scene?
John with a gunshot wound and Jane charging out the door. Then finishing with an outside shot of a window with muzzle flashes showing. The finale didn't show their lifeless bodies. Therefore, we don't know for sure that either of them are dead.
It seems like a similar thing happened to the John and Jane in the first episode but they had escaped and tried hiding for so long that the Jane said she’d had enough of running and in the scene there was more than just another John and Jane coming to finalise them it was a whole squad which shows that even if the main John and Jane in episode 8 does somehow survive they will share the same fate eventually
When I saw the sniper in the first scene, I assumed it was Maya Erskine. I was expecting the whole show to lead up to how she got there. And it seems like it did. I think John died and Jane (having killed her own assassins) moves to super high risk, killing other Smiths. Plus, it seems like Donald Glover to kill off his own character to avoid getting tied to the project indefinitely.
Even if they survived, they’ll be hunted until they can’t run alway anymore. It’s this or they’re going to go hunt down Hihi for their freedom
I legit would like to see a season 2 of them hunting down hihi
Really? Judging by the spacing of the gunshots I assumed they lived and Jane 2 was the one who was killed. It was *Bang* *Bang* 1 second *Bang*. So I thought Jane 2 missed her shots and Jane 1 lingered a moment before finishing her off. If there is no season 2 then I guess the ending was left ambiguous with the viewer left to interpret the ending the way they see fit.
The first two shots being Jane 1 and 2 exchanging shots makes more sense. Then the 3rd shot HAS to be Jane 2 making her shooting John the most reasonable outcome.
That's what I was thinking too, but I hope I'm wrong
I haven't rewatched to check, but I have a vague memory of an earlier episode where John and Jane are at home talking about a gun and John says something along the lines of, "Careful, those tend to jam." If that's the trashcan gun Parker Posey's Jane uses at the end, it could explain why she only gets two quick shots off before being shot with the last bullet.
That would be a really great callback.
We didn’t see them die so it’s Schrödinger’s Smith’s (though ironically Max is def out of play) until we know if it’s picked up for another season
So odd seeing Paul Dano in a normal role, he's so good!
I love characters like that that keep you thinking there’s something malicious about them but meanwhile they’re just a regular person who happens to live beside them😂
His midcredit was really great loool
Gonna sell the shit out of that Moby D!
just watched the finale and you made me realise this scene confirms their deaths I think. *they're ready to sell"
Don’t think it confirms anything really, it just seems like Dano seeing the carnage has assumed they’ve gotten a divorce. Probably nothing more than a moment of comedy.
The series is great! I love how each episode is self contained but also add to the main story arc. I knew the other smiths were eventually gonna try and take them out i just didn’t know it was gonna be this cliffhanger. It’s good I really like their chemistry There are genuine laughs to be had. I’m glad I got to see this as in its uninterrupted entirety as it would have killed the momentum that’s was building. It hasn’t over stayed its welcome but if this is it what a fun ride!
While I was watching episode 4 I just kept thinking “how did meeting another spy this close to you not raise any red flags??” With the other smiths, so I’m glad they showed up again. I do feel like the truth serum scene went on a bit long. They were kinda vague about whether this would be a series or just mini-series so I’m glad they’re teasing more at the end. I don’t think it’s as good as Atlanta was but the potential is there
Given the way they get close to their targets through charm, I can’t believe our John and Jane didn’t think for even a second that they were being watched/targeted, or that they were the other couple’s mission in any way. Johnald, you’re telling me this dude just shows up out of the blue where you happen to be, friendly as can be, and you don’t think there’s something hairy going on here??
I’m curious/confused what the original goal was when they met. They clearly weren’t out to kill them the first time.
I think it was literally just to get close to them. I think our John and Jane were at 2 failures at that point, so get close, get inside, learn where the guns and safe room are, know thy enemy for when the day comes sort of thing, I suppose.
I agree with this due to the pointed request for a tour.
This would probably be routine for the other Smiths, checking on other Smiths with an expectation that they’re a future mark
Bingo
They were at their 1st failure. The second one is the one in the forest and the last one is Bev.
Ahhh, that’s right. Even so, though. I think the other smiths scout out all the others before any decisions are made from on-high
from on-hihi?
I mean, the assassins should have been given the layout and have the safe room code. A lot of the spy stuff doesn't make a lick of sense. I would assume a competent agency would have cut the phone line, but calling 911 on that red phone to get a SWAT response would have been a good move.
Did the brownstone have cameras in it? Like could Hihi see into their bathroom/ bedrooms? In the beginning, I didn't think so, but then in episode 8, Jane gets a new laptop sent to her, so does that mean Hihi saw her smash the first one?
I wouldn’t be even remotely surprised, but it’s hard to say how much time passes between episodes and similarly between the laptop break and the new one being sent. Maybe the radio silence prompted it. But honestly a home built by a spy agency has gotta be bugged. I’m shocked that never came up though.
I laughed so loud when Jane revealed why she didn’t make it into the CIA
Also the way she said it was so funny.
"78." That response fucking murdered me.
Shoutout Glovers acting when he gets kicked into the door. Most perfect “receives painful hit during a fight” I’ve ever seen
Never tell a woman she's acting crazy
Right?!! Super realistic!
did we all come here to find solace in what happened to max 😢😢😢😢 IM SO UPSET
I'm so dumb, when the shots were first fired I thought "save Max!" and then when she was hiding behind the counter, "ugh, so unrealistic that a cat would just stay there and not run away at the slightest noise", like I couldn't even fathom the idea of Max's death 😭
I’m still distraught. Rip Max😭
1. Enjoyed the whole season thoroughly. 2. From what the other Jane said, HiHi might be some kind of AI? 3. The cliffhanger almost ruins the series for me. I guess we will have to accept that they survive if the series gets a renewal, and they don't if it doesn't. I really didn't need the show to end on that kind of cliffhanger.
Could just be a new series with different Johns and Janes
PLEASE.. would love for them to do to the White Lotus route, & keep it going but with new leads each season… i can stomach this John way more than i can Jane… i just CANNOT..
That being said, I think, this Jane is simply more believable than Eiza Gonzalez. It's weird because Maya Erskine is more attractive in real life than in the show. Which is usually the opposite way around.
I think Maya is gorgeous but her character was insufferable.
Yea her character was 100% insufferable, i have a low tolerance threshold for people like that in real life, so seeing it on screen has the same effect… She nailed her role, but i hate her character.
Her character was 100% realistic. Spies are sociopaths by definition
Nah I love Maya, she’s a real one, hope she comes back
Chekov’s truth serum
Chekov’s smithicide
What I originally thought happened in the ending: 1st shot: Jane #1 only has one bullet and misses it on Jane #2. 2nd shot: Jane #2 shoots Jane #1, killing her. 3rd shot: Jane #2 goes over to shoot John #1, finishing him off. Sad and obscure ending where the couple exchange their last vows and promises for them to be left empty and unfulfilled.
Nope sorry. Posey fired the first two and missed. Erskine fired the last and killed her. Happy ending. I’ll accept nothing else
Nope sorry. The 3 shots came from Max to get revenge on Jane #2. I’ll accept nothing else
As long as Erskine and Glover survive I’m good
My thing is you wouldn't see the flash from inside the panic room
The door was opened so all the shots could’ve been in the hallway
Nice little spy vs spy reference.
Yes. When I saw he was wearing all white I was wondering if there was a meaning to that. Then at the house I noticed she was all in black. Spy vs. spy.
They have guns hidden all over the house but there aren’t any guns in their safe room?
I wonder if the safe room is just some kind of allegory. Why would their employer who is meant to be some assassin for hire organisation protect them? They’ve been set up to fail form the start. All that’s in the safe room is a cartoon like red phone.
That’s a really good point. I’ll go with this so it makes more sense to me lol
Right? Like the first aid kit apparently only has some super basic gauze or whatever like they picked up one of those cheap kits from target or something. Considering their job I would have expected that thing to be fully kitted out with all the good stuff. Heck, at *least* some QuikClot!
I thought the same thing! Of all places!
I’m surprised it took so long for one of them to ask what the others real name is
John asked Jane when they first met and were getting to know each other, but she just told him it wasn't Jane.
[удалено]
lol i loved it. the disgusted tone of "sure...you'll have to walk through the house" and the sarcastic "water? anything else?" were cracking me up but the best was his delivery of "well my divorce made me crazy" after having a gun pointed at him
So Hihi is a Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning-style AI, right? It would explain "his" answers always appearing ultra-fast (even for movie/ series standards) after they write and the other Smiths' points about "him" knowing what everyone does before they do it, being like a god and probably being able to set up that brownstone against regulations. Dramatically it gives our protagonists a realistic opportunity to win against The Company -- if you only have to kill an AI that controls the whole affair it's probably more feasible than fighting a whole spy organization with section chiefs and a hierarchy and whatnot.
I definitely think it's an AI and it's manipulating the Smiths and able to predict potential outcomes. Id bet it knows that it's likely for Smiths to actually fall for each other and uses the relationship to manipulate them or drive wedges between them if/when it seems it necessary.
>Id bet it knows that it's likely for Smiths to actually fall for each other and uses the relationship to manipulate them or drive wedges between them if/when it seems it necessary. I thought that too, just forgot to mention it. Hihi obviously does this when writing only to Jane.
i love the cliffhanger but since a second season is very likely to be coming they are 100% not dead because it would never work without these two
I’m not into the anthology idea at all cause the nature of this show doesn’t really allow it. It’s a relationship drama in the frame work of a spy adventure. The relationship is the core of the whole thing and if that doesn’t work, then the show becomes extremely generic. It’s hard to find a duo that works at the capacity Donald and Maya do.
With how long 2nd seasons take now even if it does get renewed they can at least give the anthology effort a shot given who knows what our leads schedules will be like by then lol. But I agree, I definitely want a continuation of our couple for season 2.
yeah but isnt donald glover also the showrunner? the team is pretty much the same like in atlanta and i remember they shot season 3 and season 4 in one session. also in the recent years the schedules were pretty messy because of covid. everything got delayed. succession season 3 was almost a chamber play because they had to shoot in apartments with only 2-3 people in the room
And he needs to film the Community movie too. Busy busy busy
I would be open to the series becoming somewhat of an anthology and the next season introducing a new Mr & Mrs. Smith.
I can’t believe they killed Max. Man fuck that shit. I wish they’re alive and next season, if we get a next season, they went after HiHi. I REALLY don’t want it to be an anthology series. I mean it can be as long as we get a clear ending with this Jane and John. Even if they ended up dying. The cliffhanger REALLY bugged me. And while I’m at it, I’m super bummed we didn’t get to see more of Alexander Skarsgård and Eiza González’s Jane and John. I feel like they would have been a great pair.
I liked this finale a lot but I kind of hate that as soon as we saw him in all white I knew that he was dead.
I felt like he was in white and he was in black just to double down on how different they were.
I noticed that too. White could also mean he was about to be kidnapped, but yeah probably dead.
I thought this finale was damn good. It was all engaging, emotional…even the fighting and gun play you could feel all the anger and resentment they’ve been holding against one another leak out. Entertaining as hell. This episode and this show in general takes these kind of absurd comedic concepts and makes them work dramatically and they work so well. The truth serum scene would easily be too silly to be meaningful but they manage to take a light hearted concept and find the emotional center of it (which seems to be the ultimate goal over all) and it becomes a beautiful meeting in the middle between two very dysfunctional people lol. I could go on and on about the truth serum scene in detail, there’s so much to unpack and dissect. The way they chose to end it upset me at first but on rewatch, I’ve come to appreciate it. If this is all we get, we watched a journey between two lonely people who found someone and ultimately chose each other in their worst moments. Theres beauty in the tragedy of it all. If they get a second season, I don’t give a rip how they explain it, as long as we get more of this, lol. Cause it can’t be stated enough, shows like this bank on the chemistry and camaraderie between its pairing. For all of this to work, we have to care about both of them together. This show could so easily be a flop, or just mid and blah, but they really found something special in Donald Glover and Maya Erskine. The show leaned into them hard and it’s paid off exponentially. No matter what happens with this show, I hope those two work together often in the future. They are that good.
The music selection of this episode was chef’s kiss. Tokisha & Mariah the Scientist?! 🫶🏽
Does anyone know the second song that plays during the kitchen fight? The one after Happy Meal II
Ended up not liking the characters for different reasons everything that makes Jane good at her job makes her a horrible partner, she was just so cold mean and manipulative it was hard to take her side even when she was right John is a horrible spy, like holy shit dude, other people can afford to be bad at their job but not you. You're literally in life and death situations constantly and still comprise the mission i had a great time with show and hope fully we get a season 2. Not liking the characters didnt make me not like the show btw, they were just awful spies and partners
I think Donald Glover is one of the most talented people on the planet, and a top 2 entertainer of his generation and he aint number 2. That said, most of his later projects seem to be theraputic extentions of his unresolved personal issues. I get how one could relate, but it doesn't feel as though mass appeal was the primary objective. It's compelling enough but there is a an air of selfishness within his screen work that sometimes feels too intimate, too raw, and too personal. It often inspires similar feelings of unintended violations of privacy that fight skit between Kendrick and Taylor on MMMATBS evokes.
Bro I been a Childish Gambino fan since he dropped Camp and been followed shows like Community n his other works . I feel like I know who he is authentically as a person: his comedy, music, humor, preference, insecurities, how weird he is, how deep he can get. This is him, his art, he cares less about appealing the mass, this is him doing his art
I'm still trying to figure out how Hot Neighbor is hot. No disrespect, but really, girl?
Rewatched the ending and now convinced Jane won out. All three muzzle flashes were in the hallway. Jane opened the door, surprised Super high risk (SHR) Jane who missed her shots then Jane took her out. Especially as SHR Jane was using the gun John said jammed easily so may not have been able to get more shots off. If Super high risk Jane had won out there wouldn’t be a third muzzle flash as Glover was behind the door and could only be shot from inside the room without a muzzle flash visible from the window.
Can we have a gun expert or shot analysis give their thoughts based on the three shots we heard?
Eh, no idea. In real life, when shooting another person to try to kill them, especially if they are armed, you should shoot them multiple times. Jane 2 would have had no idea how many bullets John 1 and Jane 1 had, and oftentimes you can't tell if you'd killed someone instantly. I think they just wanted to end on a cliffhanger.
X= maya Y= Jane 2 Max ammunition = 2y+x All combos of shots fired Xyy (maya misses, Jane 2 kills both) YxY ( jane 2 kills maya but leaves Michael to die) YYX (both shots are missed by jane 2 and maya finished her off) There are too many variables at play to determine which one of these are the correct order but as only 3 shots are fired there are only 3 possible combinations within the given parameters so any of these are equally likely. Unless the audio team payed attention to the gun muzzle sounds to differentiate the firearms held by maya and jane it’s heard to tell by audio alone.
> audio team *paid* attention to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
but. . . Jane was already lying She could have lied about how many bullets she had
Exactly there are too many variables at play to properly predict who shot who
Jesus fuck, what an awful cliffhanger
HiHi reminded me of the Ai from Oblivion. “Are you guys an effective team”
This episode being only a 7.8 on IMDB at the moment is some fucking bullshit lmao. This episode was an easy 9+. What a finale. So many iconic moments too. The fight scene homage made me so happy! I know some don't like the supposed cliffhanger ending but I just see it as open ended, and I do appreciate the art of it when it comes to how it was executed, and just as a general concept. If this were a movie, that ending would work just as well imo. The constant shift in tones were crazy and that last conversation was absolutely heart-wrenching. I need these two back on my screen, they're an absolute joy to watch. Also absolutely love the writing on this show and how seemingly tiny throwaway details show themselves to actually be vital.
Nice, as expected from the moment Jane got shot at (RIP Max), they went back to the movie roots and did a finale with them actually trying to kill each other. Still kind of got a resounding irk that Jane tried to kill John so callously after assuming he was the one who shot at her and don’t think they belong together though. They pulled the subversion multiple times over already like with Ron Perlman’s character, but that Paul Dano shit still caught me off guard (the moment John walked downstairs, I did feel like he wasn’t going to be Hihi though because having his masterplans exposed just a few steps down felt way too sloppy for the mastermind behind spies). That post-credits scene with him was hilarious. I can’t tell if the writers meant for the thing Jane said she loved about John (leaving the toilet seat down) being something his mother is largely responsible for to be interpreted as a good or bad thing for their compatibility, lol. Also as expected, the other John and Jane returned to kill them. The super high risk entailing nothing other than missions dealing with other Smiths was a nice touch, and the callback to the three sneezes was excellent (and the panic room to a lesser degree). Found it kind of unbelievable that they have a whole ass room devoted to that but didn’t have it equipped with any better medical supplies and artillery though. Am rather surprised we got nothing about Hihi other than the other John giving them even more mystique by talking of them like they’re a god-like entity that can really do something as supernatural and omniscient as knowing what people will do before they even do it. Can definitely see a topic AI allusion there. Noticed numerous times throughout the season that Hihi’s responses to Jane’s texts seemed intentionally instantaneous, like faster than a human could read and process-let alone start typing a response to it.
Even though I loved the season, I hated the cliffhanger. As for a 2nd season, I'm torn. Obviously these two had great chemistry, so I want to see them again, but this show turning into the cliche "agent(s) with a vendetta go against the big, powerful, mysterious company that betrayed them" just doesn't appeal to me at all. I like the idea of an anthology, and I trust Glover in whatever he does, but again I'd be worried about the chemistry of who they pick. And even if the chemistry is good, what's new to explore? It's weird, I want to see more, but I'm not sure how they go forward from here while still keeping what makes the show so great. But again, everything Glover creates is gold, so if he continues the story, I'm sure it'll be great. Selfishly, I wish they hadn't completely severed the couple from the company in just one season. I think they could have easily gone another season or more. But man, what a great show. I had really low expectations going in so it was great to be pleasantly surprised
I think they end up working for Bev’s agency in season 2
I just finished and my fan theory is that hihi is an algorith controlled by the employees in Severance. Also I dont know how this show works with a second season, I'm not sure how they could expand on the format.
What happened to John/Michael’s mom?? Did Jane hurt her in retaliation for what she perceived as John’s killing of Max…? I loved this series so much! It was clever and such a blast
Unless I'm not remembering something, I think she just left after the conversation. Was there anything that implied she'd gotten hurt?
Well, as far as I can tell no one disarmed the C4 in her doorway. She has to go home eventually lmao
Not explicitly, just the combined facts that we didn’t see her leave, and Jane didn’t bring up that she’d met John’s mom- a pretty big deal- which kind of made it seem like she was intentionally not bringing it up, or that it was being saved for a dramatic reveal. I’m leaning towards mom having just left given the way the rest of the episode shook down, but I was a little surprised that it didn’t come up again.