Not just a Trumper. John Dolmayan went full on Q-Anon conspiracy theorist.
Word is that he’s still with SOAD because he’s married to Serj’s sister and that he keeps all his political opinions to himself when they’re together. Though, he is apparently still on board with their Armenian Genocide message.
I think people forget a lot of “trumpers” weren’t necessarily particularly right leaning leading up to the election. “Drain the swamp” was a slogan for a ton of his voters, they specifically felt like they weren’t voting for a *politician*. Yeah he said “grab her by the pussy”, but he was at least *being honest* while all the goddam politicians were molesting kids for satanic rituals and etc etc. What better reason to hate the government than because they’re evil lizard people and what better person to shove into their godless poor hating orgy than an all American tv show host and bootstrapping entrepreneur?
Understanding this attitude also helps you understand why people were against members of RATM speaking in favour of liberal politicians, they’re *still politicians*. When you say “fuck the system” a lot of people understandably consider that a-political, and you endorsing a politician even if that one is better comes across to them as gargling the left testicle because the right has cancer.
Some of yall didn’t grow up around poor people and it shows
>Yeah he said “grab her by the pussy”, but he was at least being honest while all the goddam politicians were molesting kids for satanic rituals and etc etc
He was not being honest. His lies were just more entertaining at the time.
God I fucking love that song. B.Y.O.B. and Hands Held High by Linkin park are two of the best anti war songs of the modern era. I still get chills anytime I hear the lyrics "When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die"
But I love how one conveys anger and where the other is more sadness and shock about the events leading to war (specifically the Iraq war)
M.I.A by Avenged Sevenfold is pretty good too. Not quite as in your face about being "anti-war" but still conveys the horrors of it from a soldiers pov.
Ozzy Osbourne said that decades before SOAD did in Black Sabbath's iconic anti-war song "War Pigs":
> Politicians hide themselves away
> They only started the war
> Why should they go out to fight?
> They leave that all to the poor, yeah
no surprise.... unless you grew up in Glendale or Watertown you probably aren't familiar with Armenian culture/history and their feud with the Turks & Azerbaijanis. And unless you have Armenian friends you don't know the depth of their sorrow & fiery for the genocide. They wear their emotions on their sleeves and truly will not forgive & forget.
It's not about forgiving and forgetting. It's about acknowledgement of what happened. Germany admits to the Holocaust and, with the exception of a few nutjobs, Germans see it as a horrible crime against humanity. The US admits to slavery and, with the exception of a few nutjobs, Americans see it as a horrible crime against humanity. Turkey on the other hand denies any wrongdoing, simultaneously saying the genocide never happened, saying the Armenians deserved it, and saying the Armenians never existed. They rewrite history and even change the names of towns where the crimes happened to gaslight the world when locations are mentioned. Then they use their strategic position in a global hotspot to pressure other countries into taking the same stance. The fact is that the Turks used the Kurds to do much of their killing, yet Armenians have no anger towards the Kurds, since the Kurds are human enough to acknowledge what happened and apologize for the crimes of their progenitors. The Turks on the other hand have collectively chosen a path of deceit, suppression of the truth, and continuing violence.
> Then they use their strategic position in a global hotspot to pressure other countries into taking the same stance. The fact is that the Turks used the Kurds to do much of their killing, yet Armenians have no anger towards the Kurds, since the Kurds are human enough to acknowledge what happened and apologize for the crimes of their progenitors.
And now Turkey is doing the same shit to the Kurds all over the place as well.
I had an armenian friend on highschool, one time, i dined with his family, and the dad, explained to me the Armenian Genocide and what the Karabaj conflict was about.
They're one of the most mistreated ethnicities on Eurasia. To put It into context, search for the Armenian border reduction on the last 200 years. The country has shrinked several times. They suffered during ww1, during the Stalin years they were mass deported, and after the USSR they keep having border conflicts with Azerbaiyán than ofter turn into Armenian massacres.
I do believe not to much people cares about them, because they're religiously independent. They have their own branch of cristianism, older than catholicism and orthodox church, they only can compare to the egiptian Coptyc church, which itself is the oldest branch of cristianism still active.
It's a weird country, and i would love to visit once on my Life.
Just wanted to chime in to say that I had the chance to visit Armenia a couple years ago and was blown away. I went in knowing little and expecting nothing, and ended up meeting the nicest population I've ever encountered. Women would walk dark city streets at midnight because it's just safe to do so. People in city and countryside alike would warmly approach passersby, stop for a chat, and even invite strangers around for a meal. Stray dogs and cats were healthy and happy thanks to the generous nature of the people around them. Gyumri's top-rated bakery is entirely employed by the mentally handicapped, welcomed and thriving with a rare opportunity to succeed. The whole country is brimming with compassion, and I yearn to return someday, maybe even permanently.
It pains me to know they are surrounded by enemies and false friends (Russia), as their history of obliterated population and borders from the formerly vast Kingdom of Armenia seems to be a story of the nice guys finishing last, and I worry desperately for their future, as we continue to fuel the Azeri army with the oil money we directed away from Russia with good intentions.
Long live Armenia. Please.
I liiterally only learned about it because of System of a Down which is insane. As an adult i have many Armenian and Persian friends, and the plight of their families is something that is criminally downplayed or ignored.
2 different conflicts. One was the Ottoman empire (which no longer exists) genocide against Armenians, and the 2nd is due to the break up of the Soviet Union and in the 90s both the Azeris and Armenians engaged in brutal genocide and ethnic cleansing, the Armenians largely won that conflict, and occupied not just Karabach, but huge swaths of Azeri territory, which was majority Azeri. They lost the most recent war, and the Azeri's engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Trying to make out what Azerbaijan has done to be a continuation of what the Ottomans did, is simply inaccurate.
I’m really shocked that less know of their message.. maybe it’s just my parents showing me bands like SOAD, RATM, etc. like that really broadened my eyes to this.
Believe it or not, this seems to be a relatively common problem with the band literally called "Rage Against The Machine" too. If I had to guess it's probably because a lot of people just perceive it as "angry at the establishment" music, but don't actually pay attention to what specific establishment. So they just substitute whatever they personally consider 'the enemy' so to speak. Again though, just a guess.
Nah, I think it’s people who just like cool sounding stuff who lack critical thinking skills. A LOT of high schoolers around me growing up loved SOAD, but lumped them in with other cool bands that just had a cool sound like Avenged Sevenfold or Five Finger Death Punch. It’s the same crowd who saw Borat and took it at face value immature humor and thought “I ama Borat!” was peak humor.
BUT…. SOAD definitely had a message, and it’s really easy to spot once you listen to the lyrics of Sugar and BYOB. They also just sounded rad as hell and their style came at just the right time to be popular and get lumped in with the others who didn’t stand for anything but a cool image.
Fair enough, I think I blanked a bit on the wider reasons for a second because I got mentally stuck on that time right wingers were surprised RATM didn't agree with them.
Thanks! They genuinely are.
Funny story… my mom and her cousin took me along with them to a show for Rage Against the Machine. Right at the moment of releasing Battle for Los Angeles. They were able to walk up and greet the band. Upon Zach seeing me as a lil 1 year old, he commented “Damn that kid has a big head”. Hahahaha!
I’m hoping my mom finds the recording they have. She says it was on their camcorder and she would have that somewhere.
War only kills citizens to advance government agendas, advertising leads to need of products, which leads to furthering capitalism, and drugs *will* catch up to you, eventually.
Theres more, but that kinda gives you the picture.
Edit: I provide some examples of SOAD song lyrics below. Once you read them, it becomes **extremely** obvious right wingers never listened to the words of the songs.
If SOAD came out today, they wouldn’t have been allowed to get famous, because they take a hard line on government over reach and civilian rights. They’d have been branded “too woke” and would’ve never gotten past their self titled album.
And with lines like
>”Why no Presidents fight the war, why do they always send the poor?”
>”Advertising causes need, therapy, therapy, therapy-“
>“Breathing each others lies, holding this in mind, that if we fall, we **all** fall, and we fall alone.”
>”Your prospect of living gone. You ran the light at dawn. Protectors on your back. Lights are on their track. “You must now face authority!” “You’re nothing like me.”
And, imo, the hardest one;
>”I've been walking through your streets,
Where all your money's earned,
Where all your buildings crying,
And clueless neckties working,
Revolving fake lawn houses,
Housing all your fears,
Desensitized by TV.
Overbearing advertising,
God of consumers,
And all your crooked pictures looking good,
Mirrors filtering information through the public eye,
Designed for profiteering,
Your neighbor, what a guy.”
….with lines like that, it’s easy to see why the government would never allow SOAD to get famous today.
They are also an act who puts their music out for free so as to not have to go through the advertising machine which would absolutely crush them if they tried.
These lyrics and songs are so memorable that as I was reading, the songs were playing in my head.
When I was a teenager listening, I didn't fully grasp it.
Today, the words ring loud and clear.
As a teen, once I realized that they speak in metaphor, I made it my personal mission to decipher every single one.
Once I did, I was horrified at the state of the world.
>with lines like that, it’s easy to see why the government would never allow SOAD to get famous today.
That's pretty cute, but you must be making a tremendous effort to blind yourself to all the anticapitalist, antigovernment, anti-this-and-that lyrics, songs, movies and books that get released all the time. One of the most powerful tools of capitalism is turning everything into a product, even the anger that would maybe cause you to act for change. So instead of rebelling you buy a t-shirt, instead of the pop act you listen to the punk band, instead of resisting the accumulation of wealth and power in the hands of a few, you buy a book about gay furry muslim immigrants etc.
SOAD and others like it are useful, not dangerous.
A certain portion of the population is notoriously bad at media literacy.
The Boys is possibly the least subtle piece of media ever created, and yet every season, there's a new contingent of people who *just now* realized it's making fun of their political ideologies. Their eyes and ears are simply not plugged into their brains.
Stilgar is a pragmatic fanatic.
He truly believes, but is not vain enough to assume he will experience the culmination of those beliefs personally.
He is eager to see Paul tested up until the duel with Feyd-Rautha, whom he sees as a petulant loser not worthy of challenging Muad'Dib.
Probably the same thing they think about Rage Against the Machine. They have no clue which machine they're raging against. Or worse, they treat the satirical lyrics as an anthem like Killing in the Name
>They misunderstand the true message and think it agrees with them?
Yes. They also do it with bands like Rage Against the Machine, also a notoriously anti government over reach band.
What do you mean not subtle? /s
> My shit stinks much better than yours
> My shit stinks right down to the floor
> With a feeling so pure
> It's got you coming back for more
But on a serious note, I agree. SOAD literally tell you what they’re singing about (Prison song etc) and people still get confused because they think it’s just “funny music”.
Also their drummer being a trumper and ignoring the politics of the songs is also wild.
absolutely NO ONE should be surprised by this. This is, quite literally, the precise message the SOAD as a band was created for.
I mean dude, it's not like Serj obfuscates the meaning of the music in ANY way. SOAD songs might just have the most on the nose, blatant, obvious anti-war/anti-genocide lyricism in the entire music industry. Right up there with RATM.
Like *fuck*. If any of this surprises you, there must be a significant amount of neurons missing in your head.
EDIT: There's some serious balkan-posting going on in these comments. A lot of you are sick fucks and you know who you are lmao
As a kid I always misheard it as "why do they always Singapore?"
I wasn't always the cleverest child, but I arrived to the progressive radicalization nonetheless.
Dude. I got this at 14. I didn't "get" much at that age, I was dumb as bricks, but B.Y.O.B. still managed to smack me in the face hard enough to understand. These people are less media literate than I was at 14. That's tough.
One of their biggest non radio hits(and the album opener to their biggest record) Prison Song literally features the man ranting about statistics involving law enforcement and recovery as the chorus lol. Anyone confused is probably just confused in general.
As I get older I realize more and more people are media Illiterate. Like you said, SOAD has been basically on the nose of their entire existence. How these folks don't see it just baffles me
Go to a dive bar when they have some punk bands playing.
There's a shitload of em in Chicago. Most of the best shows I've seen were just random bands that I didn't know prior to going out that night.
I saw a great point the other day (probably in this sub) that it’s because the music producers are owned by the same mega corps who don’t exactly want to send that kind of message. I can’t find it now but they put it a lot more eloquently
“We all live in a fascist nation” we were only teenagers at the time but my friend refused to admit this was the lyric and preferred to pretend it was “we all live in a fascination” because America is so great…
It's actually better than the last time this was on the front page of /r/music.
The mods are not equipped, or don't care, to solve these problems though.
We as the musical community should have more pressure put on bands that perform for dictatorships committing Genocide.
I don't know what is most disappointing;
the idea that there is such a ridiculous amounts of astroturfers, or that so many people have no fucking clue what nationalism is.
No, they are the ones asking for sources, saying that crimea wasn't an invasion, and trying to spread misinformation about the election. Don't believe me, look at their comment histories.
That's the most annoying straw man they use. Asking sources on *anything* even well-known information. The intent is to just bog down conversation and muddle the point.
It’s called [sealioning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning?wprov=sfti1#)
> is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.
I absolutely can agree with the sentiment, I just don't like grandstanding when he was playing in Russia no problem after their invasion of Ukraine in 2014
This was the SOAD Wake Up The Souls tour for the 100th anniversary of the Armenian genocide. It was an activist af tour, and context is important here.
Have you ever listened to System Of A Down? Their message is good for Russians to hear. Extremely anti-authority.
Edit: there’s a lot of Turkish nationalist propaganda in this thread. They have a vested interest in discrediting Armenians, including System of a Down, all because they are vocal about how turkey conducted a genocide of millions of Armenians.
I'm an Armenian and I appreciate how Serj brings awareness to the genocide and what the Armenian people have gone through.
There aren't a lot of us in the world and the Armenian genocide often flies under the radar.
It was in 2015 and not after the actual total invasion started, there is a big difference. Imagine dragons played after the 2020 war and during the blockade/starvation of civilians.
For this to be comparable, Serj would need to play in Moscow today, which I highly doubt he would do.
Russia is also home to more than a million Armenians. The largest Armenian diaspora group in the world. And considering 2015 was the centenary of the Armenian Genocide, it makes sense.
People need a popular band to hate.
"They are just so damn overplayed!!!"
fucker you are still listening to FM radio??? If only there was another option...
So many people don’t even like music, they just use it to feel superior.
“Oh that band you like? How quaint and mainstream. I only listen to MF DOOM, Tchaikovsky, and a jazz pianist that died of starvation when he was 13.”
Not just a music thing. Every enthusiast culture has a solid percentage of the loudest and most confrontational members who spend far below average time doing the thing the culture is centered on. They care more about policing the group than sharing preferences or common life experiences.
That is why online representation of subcultures often has a vastly different tone than real world gatherings. With online, you get the loudest and most confrontational in the entire world dominating the discourse. Reasonable people know better than to get into those wars so they just stay quiet.
**"I dont feel nearly as strongly about the nuances of our shared interest as you do!!!"** -nobody on reddit (mostly)
I need to get this rant off my chest: hating imagine dragons is just the 2020s version of hating Nickelback. Look at me I'm so unique i don't like this very inoffensive mainstream band, my taste is so much better! Probably also still make twillight comments in 2024.
I'm not a fan, but they're just pretty consistently alright, and people frothing about them are hella annoying.
Since you brought it up, I just want to say that I saw Nickelback this year at the Houston rodeo and it was an AWESOME concert. Sounded just like they do on the album, great crowd engagement even with a funky spinning stage (since it’s in the center of a football stadium), and even reference the “look at this graph” meme before singing photograph. Easily in the top 10 of concerts I’ve been to.
They are just the new nickel back, everyone needs a bad that it’s popular to hate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the music they make, and also many of their deeper cuts are miles and miles better than the popular songs that people hate ob
All these "I love SOAD but..." commenters should look up how the SOAD drummer has been speaking in recent years if they want to see what real hypocrisy looks like. Serj's Armenia-centric double standards are way more reasonable in comparison (and should not be a surprise if you know more about SOAD than just their hit singles).
So are the supposed Russian bots in this comment section pro or anti Serj? Because SOAD has played in Russia and Serj has not publically criticised Putin or Russia in the same way as he has criticised Azerbaijan and Israel.
Also, I feel like it's natural that he would be particularly critical of Azerbaijan since he is actually Armenian.
People comparing the Russian invasion of Crimea with the invasion and ethnic cleansing of Artsakh by Azerbaijan (characterised as a genocide by the former chief prosecutor of the ICC, the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention and various other NGOs) are overdosing on copium.
And for Christ's sake, standing up for basic justice doesn't make you a nationalist. Some of y'all are too much on this app and it shows.
So Serj performing in a country for people that start a military invasion to another nation, ruining the lives for millions of people - is not a problem, but it suddenly gets all bad for the other band to perform in a country that makes their military to go inside their own internationally recognized territory?
>Serj performing in a country for people that start a military invasion to another nation, ruining the lives for millions of people - is not a problem
I mean, you have to know the irony of saying this about an American band.
Serj had no problem with Armenians ethnic cleansing of Karabakh when over half a million Azerbaijanis had to flee (+ destruction and burning of all settlements and towns populated by Azerbaijanis). Serj also had no problem with Russian annexation of Crimea, since he gave concerts there too. Plus, Lemkin Institute is bs being one sided.
I always thought SoAD were anarchists but then after a random lecture Serj gave at a concert about whether a mountain is in Turkey or Armenia I realised they're actually Armenian nationalists.
I think that's a bit harsh. Does holding the belief that their people have a right to exist when their country is largely bordered by countries who think otherwise make someone a "nationalist?"
Exactly. He's an Armenian. I've never met or heard of an Armenian who didn't know of or talk about the Armenian Genocide by the Turks, or the conflict with Azerbaijan.
right, I'd hardly call someone a "nationalist" for holding the belief that their people have a right to exist when most of their border is with countries who think otherwise
That's like saying I've never met a Jewish person who doesn't talk about the Holocaust. Of course Armenian's talk about it. It's one of the biggest pieces of Armenian history and people like to brush the genocide aside.
Doesn't make us all nationalists.
Just an Armenian *talking* about the Genocide has some people screeching "nationalist!!!!"
I genuinely believe that most Turkish people today don't understand just how profoundly catastrophic their forefathers' eradication of Armenia was. And for as long as there is denial, it will remain a firm talking point. It has to be resolved.
I was really taken surprised when SOAD made a fairly lame song about "supporting the troops". It makes sense, and they're allowed to believe what they believe. But fuck me it doesn't gel well my understanding of their music
So we should empower the people abusing the population by contributing more money to their cause?
Seems like poor logic. Especially for the trade off of... hearing Imagine Dragons live?
I believe Russia was or was hoped to be (at that time) an ally to Armenia. I’m just speculating why he may have overlooked a little Russian land grabbing.
Russia was basically Armenia's only ally up until they invaded Ukraine. They had a security agreement which seemed to keep Azerbaijan mostly at-bay from a full on assault on Nagorno-karabah. That ended after Russia's war of aggression on Ukraine, when they had to pull troops in to that clusterfuck.
It's a complicated situation, and one more born of necessity for Armenia than any real ideological similarities.
France a bit too which has made for a very weird situation where Azerbaijan seems to be backing a separatist uprising in New Caledonia
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/17/new-caledonia-riots-explainer-azerbaijan-flags-noumea-link
Technically it ended previously when they sat back and let Armenia get bombed by the Azeris and their Turkish drones in 2020, all because Armenia dared to look in the direction of the west
Still, he IS shady on Russia and seems to not care about the genocide of Ukrainians in Luhansk, Donbas and Crimea that has been going since 2014.
He has repeated Russian genocidal dog whistles and has tried to have a misguided "both sides are wrong narrative", which, I kid you not, is part of Russia's propagandist playbook to normalize their genocide in Ukraine.
All in all, Serj is a hypocrite.
This comment section shows me that a lot of SOAD fans have no idea what their message was
“Why Don’t the presidents fight the war, why do they always sent the poor” I mean HOW How do they always miss these things truly
Well it kind of seems like their own drummer missed the point tbh.
Whatd the drummer do? Their self titled album is in my all time top 10 but I've lost track of what's been happening
He's a Trumper 🤢
Not just a Trumper. John Dolmayan went full on Q-Anon conspiracy theorist. Word is that he’s still with SOAD because he’s married to Serj’s sister and that he keeps all his political opinions to himself when they’re together. Though, he is apparently still on board with their Armenian Genocide message.
> their Armenian Genocide message I would assume above all else this is what they would care about.
I think people forget a lot of “trumpers” weren’t necessarily particularly right leaning leading up to the election. “Drain the swamp” was a slogan for a ton of his voters, they specifically felt like they weren’t voting for a *politician*. Yeah he said “grab her by the pussy”, but he was at least *being honest* while all the goddam politicians were molesting kids for satanic rituals and etc etc. What better reason to hate the government than because they’re evil lizard people and what better person to shove into their godless poor hating orgy than an all American tv show host and bootstrapping entrepreneur? Understanding this attitude also helps you understand why people were against members of RATM speaking in favour of liberal politicians, they’re *still politicians*. When you say “fuck the system” a lot of people understandably consider that a-political, and you endorsing a politician even if that one is better comes across to them as gargling the left testicle because the right has cancer. Some of yall didn’t grow up around poor people and it shows
>Yeah he said “grab her by the pussy”, but he was at least being honest while all the goddam politicians were molesting kids for satanic rituals and etc etc He was not being honest. His lies were just more entertaining at the time.
Wtf? That's so antithetical to what the band has always been about.
The lead singer of Slayer is a devout Catholic, but sings the lyrics written by the guitarist because it's his job to sing, not write.
Yea well that's why he sucks and is also a trumpeter.
Random brass catching strays smh
yes. no problem with him being a xtian, people do dumb shit like that all the time. but being a money-grubbing hypocrite, fuck that
Always the fucking drummer.
Angry upvote
God I fucking love that song. B.Y.O.B. and Hands Held High by Linkin park are two of the best anti war songs of the modern era. I still get chills anytime I hear the lyrics "When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die" But I love how one conveys anger and where the other is more sadness and shock about the events leading to war (specifically the Iraq war)
One of Mike's best verses of their entire discography.
M.I.A by Avenged Sevenfold is pretty good too. Not quite as in your face about being "anti-war" but still conveys the horrors of it from a soldiers pov.
LP and SOAD were the soundtrack to middle school and early high school for me, great stuff man. Chester lives forever!
May I present the entirety of "Ashes of the Wake"?
Hero of war ? I’m not even sure if that’s what it’s called lol.
There are so many good anti war songs written the past few generations.
Ozzy Osbourne said that decades before SOAD did in Black Sabbath's iconic anti-war song "War Pigs": > Politicians hide themselves away > They only started the war > Why should they go out to fight? > They leave that all to the poor, yeah
To nitpick, Geezer wrote the lyrics to Sabbath songs. Ozzy's never been much of a lyricist, even on his solo stuff
Because it's pulling from a Jean Paul Sartre, and it's also just a common sentiment throughout the centuries. Lots of variations of the same thing.
"Killing in the name of? I thought he was saying he won't do what the uLtRaWoKe LeFt tells him to do"
Media literacy (and literacy in general) isn't their strong suit. 
Lots of people just don’t listen to the words. I don’t get it, either. The lyrics are the best part.
I'm one of those people - I love metal music and couldn't recite the lyrics to any songs bar a few lines or the chorus.
Bc repubs are fucking dumb. They have no critical thinking skills.
A lot of SOAD fans have no idea that Turkey and Azerbaijan are continuing their genocide of Armenian people to this day.
no surprise.... unless you grew up in Glendale or Watertown you probably aren't familiar with Armenian culture/history and their feud with the Turks & Azerbaijanis. And unless you have Armenian friends you don't know the depth of their sorrow & fiery for the genocide. They wear their emotions on their sleeves and truly will not forgive & forget.
It's not about forgiving and forgetting. It's about acknowledgement of what happened. Germany admits to the Holocaust and, with the exception of a few nutjobs, Germans see it as a horrible crime against humanity. The US admits to slavery and, with the exception of a few nutjobs, Americans see it as a horrible crime against humanity. Turkey on the other hand denies any wrongdoing, simultaneously saying the genocide never happened, saying the Armenians deserved it, and saying the Armenians never existed. They rewrite history and even change the names of towns where the crimes happened to gaslight the world when locations are mentioned. Then they use their strategic position in a global hotspot to pressure other countries into taking the same stance. The fact is that the Turks used the Kurds to do much of their killing, yet Armenians have no anger towards the Kurds, since the Kurds are human enough to acknowledge what happened and apologize for the crimes of their progenitors. The Turks on the other hand have collectively chosen a path of deceit, suppression of the truth, and continuing violence.
> Then they use their strategic position in a global hotspot to pressure other countries into taking the same stance. The fact is that the Turks used the Kurds to do much of their killing, yet Armenians have no anger towards the Kurds, since the Kurds are human enough to acknowledge what happened and apologize for the crimes of their progenitors. And now Turkey is doing the same shit to the Kurds all over the place as well.
I had an armenian friend on highschool, one time, i dined with his family, and the dad, explained to me the Armenian Genocide and what the Karabaj conflict was about. They're one of the most mistreated ethnicities on Eurasia. To put It into context, search for the Armenian border reduction on the last 200 years. The country has shrinked several times. They suffered during ww1, during the Stalin years they were mass deported, and after the USSR they keep having border conflicts with Azerbaiyán than ofter turn into Armenian massacres. I do believe not to much people cares about them, because they're religiously independent. They have their own branch of cristianism, older than catholicism and orthodox church, they only can compare to the egiptian Coptyc church, which itself is the oldest branch of cristianism still active. It's a weird country, and i would love to visit once on my Life.
Just wanted to chime in to say that I had the chance to visit Armenia a couple years ago and was blown away. I went in knowing little and expecting nothing, and ended up meeting the nicest population I've ever encountered. Women would walk dark city streets at midnight because it's just safe to do so. People in city and countryside alike would warmly approach passersby, stop for a chat, and even invite strangers around for a meal. Stray dogs and cats were healthy and happy thanks to the generous nature of the people around them. Gyumri's top-rated bakery is entirely employed by the mentally handicapped, welcomed and thriving with a rare opportunity to succeed. The whole country is brimming with compassion, and I yearn to return someday, maybe even permanently. It pains me to know they are surrounded by enemies and false friends (Russia), as their history of obliterated population and borders from the formerly vast Kingdom of Armenia seems to be a story of the nice guys finishing last, and I worry desperately for their future, as we continue to fuel the Azeri army with the oil money we directed away from Russia with good intentions. Long live Armenia. Please.
Forgive and forget??? the genocide is active happening. Armenians are being displaced NOW.
I liiterally only learned about it because of System of a Down which is insane. As an adult i have many Armenian and Persian friends, and the plight of their families is something that is criminally downplayed or ignored.
2 different conflicts. One was the Ottoman empire (which no longer exists) genocide against Armenians, and the 2nd is due to the break up of the Soviet Union and in the 90s both the Azeris and Armenians engaged in brutal genocide and ethnic cleansing, the Armenians largely won that conflict, and occupied not just Karabach, but huge swaths of Azeri territory, which was majority Azeri. They lost the most recent war, and the Azeri's engaged in ethnic cleansing. Trying to make out what Azerbaijan has done to be a continuation of what the Ottomans did, is simply inaccurate.
They played in Russia after they have invaded Crimea, fuck them, bunch of hypocrites
I’m really shocked that less know of their message.. maybe it’s just my parents showing me bands like SOAD, RATM, etc. like that really broadened my eyes to this.
Believe it or not, this seems to be a relatively common problem with the band literally called "Rage Against The Machine" too. If I had to guess it's probably because a lot of people just perceive it as "angry at the establishment" music, but don't actually pay attention to what specific establishment. So they just substitute whatever they personally consider 'the enemy' so to speak. Again though, just a guess.
Nah, I think it’s people who just like cool sounding stuff who lack critical thinking skills. A LOT of high schoolers around me growing up loved SOAD, but lumped them in with other cool bands that just had a cool sound like Avenged Sevenfold or Five Finger Death Punch. It’s the same crowd who saw Borat and took it at face value immature humor and thought “I ama Borat!” was peak humor. BUT…. SOAD definitely had a message, and it’s really easy to spot once you listen to the lyrics of Sugar and BYOB. They also just sounded rad as hell and their style came at just the right time to be popular and get lumped in with the others who didn’t stand for anything but a cool image.
Fair enough, I think I blanked a bit on the wider reasons for a second because I got mentally stuck on that time right wingers were surprised RATM didn't agree with them.
Know your ennemy
Crazy to think this has Maynard from Tool feature on it.
Your parents sound cool
Thanks! They genuinely are. Funny story… my mom and her cousin took me along with them to a show for Rage Against the Machine. Right at the moment of releasing Battle for Los Angeles. They were able to walk up and greet the band. Upon Zach seeing me as a lil 1 year old, he commented “Damn that kid has a big head”. Hahahaha! I’m hoping my mom finds the recording they have. She says it was on their camcorder and she would have that somewhere.
Is your head still big, tho?
Hahah! I don’t think it’s ginormous. Though wife said to me, “you do kind of have a big head”.
What was their message?
War only kills citizens to advance government agendas, advertising leads to need of products, which leads to furthering capitalism, and drugs *will* catch up to you, eventually. Theres more, but that kinda gives you the picture. Edit: I provide some examples of SOAD song lyrics below. Once you read them, it becomes **extremely** obvious right wingers never listened to the words of the songs.
Pretty sane set of arguments, really
If SOAD came out today, they wouldn’t have been allowed to get famous, because they take a hard line on government over reach and civilian rights. They’d have been branded “too woke” and would’ve never gotten past their self titled album. And with lines like >”Why no Presidents fight the war, why do they always send the poor?” >”Advertising causes need, therapy, therapy, therapy-“ >“Breathing each others lies, holding this in mind, that if we fall, we **all** fall, and we fall alone.” >”Your prospect of living gone. You ran the light at dawn. Protectors on your back. Lights are on their track. “You must now face authority!” “You’re nothing like me.” And, imo, the hardest one; >”I've been walking through your streets, Where all your money's earned, Where all your buildings crying, And clueless neckties working, Revolving fake lawn houses, Housing all your fears, Desensitized by TV. Overbearing advertising, God of consumers, And all your crooked pictures looking good, Mirrors filtering information through the public eye, Designed for profiteering, Your neighbor, what a guy.” ….with lines like that, it’s easy to see why the government would never allow SOAD to get famous today.
Run the Jewels says shit like that all the time. There are plenty of subversive acts still getting famous.
They are also an act who puts their music out for free so as to not have to go through the advertising machine which would absolutely crush them if they tried.
Im not arguing against SOAD being activists. Im arguing against the idea that music that’s subversive or political won’t get play anymore.
lol what. these ideas are far more popular and mainstream than they were when soad first came out.
Those are all great examples of their general message, but I think you can sum it all up with this one line: "My cock is much bigger than yours"
“Can't you see that I love my cock? Can't you see that you love my cock? Can't you see that we love my cock?”
These lyrics and songs are so memorable that as I was reading, the songs were playing in my head. When I was a teenager listening, I didn't fully grasp it. Today, the words ring loud and clear.
As a teen, once I realized that they speak in metaphor, I made it my personal mission to decipher every single one. Once I did, I was horrified at the state of the world.
Where would they not be allowed to become famous? Have you not heard any music critical of the system in 15 years?
>with lines like that, it’s easy to see why the government would never allow SOAD to get famous today. That's pretty cute, but you must be making a tremendous effort to blind yourself to all the anticapitalist, antigovernment, anti-this-and-that lyrics, songs, movies and books that get released all the time. One of the most powerful tools of capitalism is turning everything into a product, even the anger that would maybe cause you to act for change. So instead of rebelling you buy a t-shirt, instead of the pop act you listen to the punk band, instead of resisting the accumulation of wealth and power in the hands of a few, you buy a book about gay furry muslim immigrants etc. SOAD and others like it are useful, not dangerous.
I thought their message was I can put on a little make up, but only once awake?
Genuine question- what do right wingers think of SOAD? They misunderstand the true message and think it agrees with them?
A certain portion of the population is notoriously bad at media literacy. The Boys is possibly the least subtle piece of media ever created, and yet every season, there's a new contingent of people who *just now* realized it's making fun of their political ideologies. Their eyes and ears are simply not plugged into their brains.
I had to shake my head reading discussions about Dune 2 where people thought Stilgar was just comic relief instead of a brainwashed religious fanatic.
Stilgar is a pragmatic fanatic. He truly believes, but is not vain enough to assume he will experience the culmination of those beliefs personally. He is eager to see Paul tested up until the duel with Feyd-Rautha, whom he sees as a petulant loser not worthy of challenging Muad'Dib.
And that percentage is very, very high...and growing.
That's because Nazis are fucking idiots who can't understand subtext or nuance.
Probably the same thing they think about Rage Against the Machine. They have no clue which machine they're raging against. Or worse, they treat the satirical lyrics as an anthem like Killing in the Name
>They misunderstand the true message and think it agrees with them? Yes. They also do it with bands like Rage Against the Machine, also a notoriously anti government over reach band.
Why do they always send the poor? System of a Down isn't terribly subtle.
What do you mean not subtle? /s > My shit stinks much better than yours > My shit stinks right down to the floor > With a feeling so pure > It's got you coming back for more But on a serious note, I agree. SOAD literally tell you what they’re singing about (Prison song etc) and people still get confused because they think it’s just “funny music”. Also their drummer being a trumper and ignoring the politics of the songs is also wild.
That you shouldn’t leave your keys up on the table.
I never understood that quote
You wanted to
Why don’t you ask the kids at tiananmen square
absolutely NO ONE should be surprised by this. This is, quite literally, the precise message the SOAD as a band was created for. I mean dude, it's not like Serj obfuscates the meaning of the music in ANY way. SOAD songs might just have the most on the nose, blatant, obvious anti-war/anti-genocide lyricism in the entire music industry. Right up there with RATM. Like *fuck*. If any of this surprises you, there must be a significant amount of neurons missing in your head. EDIT: There's some serious balkan-posting going on in these comments. A lot of you are sick fucks and you know who you are lmao
“WHY DO THEY ALWAYS SEND THE POOR?” is like one of the most clearly pronounced lines in their discography lmao how did people miss it so badly?
Because everybody goes to the party to have a real good time, fuck everything else
"Y'all don't wanna hear me, you just wanna dance"
lets do the deer dance
we are going to need more pogo sticks
As a kid I always misheard it as "why do they always Singapore?" I wasn't always the cleverest child, but I arrived to the progressive radicalization nonetheless.
I know people who were shocked to learn "Killing in the Name of" is a song about police brutality.
Dude. I got this at 14. I didn't "get" much at that age, I was dumb as bricks, but B.Y.O.B. still managed to smack me in the face hard enough to understand. These people are less media literate than I was at 14. That's tough.
One of their biggest non radio hits(and the album opener to their biggest record) Prison Song literally features the man ranting about statistics involving law enforcement and recovery as the chorus lol. Anyone confused is probably just confused in general.
As I get older I realize more and more people are media Illiterate. Like you said, SOAD has been basically on the nose of their entire existence. How these folks don't see it just baffles me
Wish we had more music like theirs, especially these days...
Go to a dive bar when they have some punk bands playing. There's a shitload of em in Chicago. Most of the best shows I've seen were just random bands that I didn't know prior to going out that night.
I saw a great point the other day (probably in this sub) that it’s because the music producers are owned by the same mega corps who don’t exactly want to send that kind of message. I can’t find it now but they put it a lot more eloquently
Why did the mega corps gladly release all of SOADs and RATMs albums? Because they made money. Mega corps care about money, Nothing else.
Listen to any fucking punk rock band
“We all live in a fascist nation” we were only teenagers at the time but my friend refused to admit this was the lyric and preferred to pretend it was “we all live in a fascination” because America is so great…
horrible comment section bad work guys
For a moment I thought "how bad could it be" but then I started scrolling and *holy fuck*.
It's actually better than the last time this was on the front page of /r/music. The mods are not equipped, or don't care, to solve these problems though. We as the musical community should have more pressure put on bands that perform for dictatorships committing Genocide.
This describes reddit very well!
Describes people in general very well.
I don't know what is most disappointing; the idea that there is such a ridiculous amounts of astroturfers, or that so many people have no fucking clue what nationalism is.
I mean Armenia has been under active genocide and takeover from Azerbaijan so yeah I can understand if he’s uncomfortable with it.
Comments are invaded by Russian Astroturfers.
>Russian Astroturf So it's basically asbestos It's always asbestos
Turkish nationalist propaganda too.
Russian astroturfers that are pointing out the hypocrisy of Serj performing in Russia after they stole Crimea? I'm so sure.....
No, they are the ones asking for sources, saying that crimea wasn't an invasion, and trying to spread misinformation about the election. Don't believe me, look at their comment histories.
That's the most annoying straw man they use. Asking sources on *anything* even well-known information. The intent is to just bog down conversation and muddle the point.
It’s called [sealioning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning?wprov=sfti1#) > is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.
Wait, this is old news. Crimea was invaded in 2014 or did I miss out on something?
Old News, you mean recent history? People discuss recent history when deciding if a country like Russia is shit or not
Azeris and Turks: "We have a right to kill all Armenian people in the world and we're going to do it" This comment section: "Russian Astroturfers!!!"
People ITT should look up the term “false equivalency” and then actually study the history of the regions they are talking about.
As an Armenian it's incredibly disappointing seeing some of the ignorant comments here.
I absolutely can agree with the sentiment, I just don't like grandstanding when he was playing in Russia no problem after their invasion of Ukraine in 2014
I mean, he is Armenian, right? It's kind of expected.
tf he talking about, he played in Russia after they invaded Ukraine, hypocrite
Where and when was this? I can't find any Serj/soad date in Russia
April 20th 2015 in Moscow, year after Russia invasion of Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk.
This was the SOAD Wake Up The Souls tour for the 100th anniversary of the Armenian genocide. It was an activist af tour, and context is important here.
Now when you drew a line
Have you ever listened to System Of A Down? Their message is good for Russians to hear. Extremely anti-authority. Edit: there’s a lot of Turkish nationalist propaganda in this thread. They have a vested interest in discrediting Armenians, including System of a Down, all because they are vocal about how turkey conducted a genocide of millions of Armenians.
I'm an Armenian and I appreciate how Serj brings awareness to the genocide and what the Armenian people have gone through. There aren't a lot of us in the world and the Armenian genocide often flies under the radar.
Don't forget your genocide bros, Assyrians. We died right along with you.
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It was in 2015 and not after the actual total invasion started, there is a big difference. Imagine dragons played after the 2020 war and during the blockade/starvation of civilians. For this to be comparable, Serj would need to play in Moscow today, which I highly doubt he would do.
Russia is also home to more than a million Armenians. The largest Armenian diaspora group in the world. And considering 2015 was the centenary of the Armenian Genocide, it makes sense.
It was only a light annexation of Crimea...
Playing in Russia renders his point null
I'm going to add even more to this controversy and say that I really don't mind Imagine Dragons.
It's insane it's pretty crazy how much this band lives rent free in so many people's heads
People need a popular band to hate. "They are just so damn overplayed!!!" fucker you are still listening to FM radio??? If only there was another option...
So many people don’t even like music, they just use it to feel superior. “Oh that band you like? How quaint and mainstream. I only listen to MF DOOM, Tchaikovsky, and a jazz pianist that died of starvation when he was 13.”
Not just a music thing. Every enthusiast culture has a solid percentage of the loudest and most confrontational members who spend far below average time doing the thing the culture is centered on. They care more about policing the group than sharing preferences or common life experiences. That is why online representation of subcultures often has a vastly different tone than real world gatherings. With online, you get the loudest and most confrontational in the entire world dominating the discourse. Reasonable people know better than to get into those wars so they just stay quiet. **"I dont feel nearly as strongly about the nuances of our shared interest as you do!!!"** -nobody on reddit (mostly)
They can't help but imagine Imagine Dragons
I need to get this rant off my chest: hating imagine dragons is just the 2020s version of hating Nickelback. Look at me I'm so unique i don't like this very inoffensive mainstream band, my taste is so much better! Probably also still make twillight comments in 2024. I'm not a fan, but they're just pretty consistently alright, and people frothing about them are hella annoying.
Since you brought it up, I just want to say that I saw Nickelback this year at the Houston rodeo and it was an AWESOME concert. Sounded just like they do on the album, great crowd engagement even with a funky spinning stage (since it’s in the center of a football stadium), and even reference the “look at this graph” meme before singing photograph. Easily in the top 10 of concerts I’ve been to.
They are just the new nickel back, everyone needs a bad that it’s popular to hate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the music they make, and also many of their deeper cuts are miles and miles better than the popular songs that people hate ob
All these "I love SOAD but..." commenters should look up how the SOAD drummer has been speaking in recent years if they want to see what real hypocrisy looks like. Serj's Armenia-centric double standards are way more reasonable in comparison (and should not be a surprise if you know more about SOAD than just their hit singles).
You over estimate the degree any given music enjoyer knows about the people who make the music they like.
I can't overstate this enough, not only do not know anything about the people who make the music I like, but I also do not give a fuck about them
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So are the supposed Russian bots in this comment section pro or anti Serj? Because SOAD has played in Russia and Serj has not publically criticised Putin or Russia in the same way as he has criticised Azerbaijan and Israel. Also, I feel like it's natural that he would be particularly critical of Azerbaijan since he is actually Armenian.
imagine dragging deezzz nuts.
Is he vocal about Gaza at all?
People comparing the Russian invasion of Crimea with the invasion and ethnic cleansing of Artsakh by Azerbaijan (characterised as a genocide by the former chief prosecutor of the ICC, the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention and various other NGOs) are overdosing on copium. And for Christ's sake, standing up for basic justice doesn't make you a nationalist. Some of y'all are too much on this app and it shows.
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So Serj performing in a country for people that start a military invasion to another nation, ruining the lives for millions of people - is not a problem, but it suddenly gets all bad for the other band to perform in a country that makes their military to go inside their own internationally recognized territory?
>Serj performing in a country for people that start a military invasion to another nation, ruining the lives for millions of people - is not a problem I mean, you have to know the irony of saying this about an American band.
Serj had no problem with Armenians ethnic cleansing of Karabakh when over half a million Azerbaijanis had to flee (+ destruction and burning of all settlements and towns populated by Azerbaijanis). Serj also had no problem with Russian annexation of Crimea, since he gave concerts there too. Plus, Lemkin Institute is bs being one sided.
Ha! All the russian bots up in here astroturfing. Hilarious.
I always thought SoAD were anarchists but then after a random lecture Serj gave at a concert about whether a mountain is in Turkey or Armenia I realised they're actually Armenian nationalists.
I'm pretty sure his views are colored by the millions of Armenians that was killed or forced to flee during the genocide, including his family.
I think that's a bit harsh. Does holding the belief that their people have a right to exist when their country is largely bordered by countries who think otherwise make someone a "nationalist?"
The Turkish nationalist propaganda is working. They have just as many bot farms as Russia.
I wonder if there's any Armenian (or Azeri for that matter) who is not a nationalist.
Exactly. He's an Armenian. I've never met or heard of an Armenian who didn't know of or talk about the Armenian Genocide by the Turks, or the conflict with Azerbaijan.
Hard to ignore, when you are close to being erased once again tbh.
right, I'd hardly call someone a "nationalist" for holding the belief that their people have a right to exist when most of their border is with countries who think otherwise
Yes, exactly my thoughts. Some people in this comment section aren't getting this for some reason
As an Armenian, it's incredibly disappointing. I didn't expect so many people in 2024 to paint a genocide as nbd.
That's like saying I've never met a Jewish person who doesn't talk about the Holocaust. Of course Armenian's talk about it. It's one of the biggest pieces of Armenian history and people like to brush the genocide aside. Doesn't make us all nationalists.
Yeah that's kinda my point. I don't think it makes you a nationalist because you're aware of your people's history and right to exist.
Just an Armenian *talking* about the Genocide has some people screeching "nationalist!!!!" I genuinely believe that most Turkish people today don't understand just how profoundly catastrophic their forefathers' eradication of Armenia was. And for as long as there is denial, it will remain a firm talking point. It has to be resolved.
Cher?
TIL Cher is Armenian!
Yes but her song "Do You Believe" is clearly nationalistic.
I did see her perform a cover of Fernando and I felt that lmao
Keeping up with the Kardashian (manifesto)
I was really taken surprised when SOAD made a fairly lame song about "supporting the troops". It makes sense, and they're allowed to believe what they believe. But fuck me it doesn't gel well my understanding of their music
[Protect The Land](https://youtu.be/XqmknZNg1yw?si) is about a lot more than supporting the troops. Have you even fucking listened to it?
Generally every song they've done is anti the aggressor in wars so to me it makes sense when contrasted with BYOB
Now listen to mesmerize again
hypnotize also for that matter
There's a difference between a generic "supporting the troops" song and one when your home country is literally invaded lol
Turkish astroturfer
I think the people living in Azerbaijan deserve to listen to live music despite living in a dictatorship. Maybe more so.
Just a shame it had to be imagine dragons
Maybe it was a punishment in disguise?
So we should empower the people abusing the population by contributing more money to their cause? Seems like poor logic. Especially for the trade off of... hearing Imagine Dragons live?
I loved SoaD growing up but man that’s funny coming from Serj who played in Russia
I believe Russia was or was hoped to be (at that time) an ally to Armenia. I’m just speculating why he may have overlooked a little Russian land grabbing.
Russia was basically Armenia's only ally up until they invaded Ukraine. They had a security agreement which seemed to keep Azerbaijan mostly at-bay from a full on assault on Nagorno-karabah. That ended after Russia's war of aggression on Ukraine, when they had to pull troops in to that clusterfuck. It's a complicated situation, and one more born of necessity for Armenia than any real ideological similarities.
Armenia is strengthening relations with the United States because Russia abandoned them
France a bit too which has made for a very weird situation where Azerbaijan seems to be backing a separatist uprising in New Caledonia https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/17/new-caledonia-riots-explainer-azerbaijan-flags-noumea-link
Technically it ended previously when they sat back and let Armenia get bombed by the Azeris and their Turkish drones in 2020, all because Armenia dared to look in the direction of the west
Well, they also played in the US after they invaded and killed hundred of thousands in Iraq. So did Taylor Swift and some others well know artists!
The difference is that Serj is calling out ID for doing it, Taylor doesn’t publicly talk about that stuff.
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That article strongly reads like it was actually written by chat GPT rather than a human
Isn't imagine dragons the new Nickelback?
More of a dotted line in his case considering how he kept performing in Russia over and over again.
Still, he IS shady on Russia and seems to not care about the genocide of Ukrainians in Luhansk, Donbas and Crimea that has been going since 2014. He has repeated Russian genocidal dog whistles and has tried to have a misguided "both sides are wrong narrative", which, I kid you not, is part of Russia's propagandist playbook to normalize their genocide in Ukraine. All in all, Serj is a hypocrite.
Holy hell this comment section is filled to THE BRIM by idiots...
Isn't their drummer a neo nazi? Did Serj just not play in Russia? Hypocrite.